← Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Mystery Juror Drama Halts Courtroom + Forensic Bombshells | Karen Read Trial Day 20
00:20:09
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Ashley Banfield
Foreign hey, everyone, I'm Ashley Banfield. Welcome to another episode of Drop Dead Serious. It is day 20 in Karen Reed's murder trial, and today was supposed to be business as usual. But court had barely begun before everything came to a screeching halt. Some mysterious issue sent the judge into lockdown mode. And it's the kind of thing that can bring a trial to a crashing halt and waste millions of dollars in taxpayer money, not to mention countless hours of people's time and effort. I'm going to tell you what happened with each juror when the judge shut everything down. And I'm going to give you my two cents on what I think happened even beyond that in just a second. But once testimony actually did resume after, like, the crazy moment, it was back to back with a neurosurgeon graphic, injury photos, and a forensic scientist walking us through shattered tail lights, plastic fragments and glass debris found on John o' Keeffe's clothing. And the question at the center of it all, could any of this prove or disprove that Karen Reed killed John o' Keefe with her suv? Right. That's where we're at. Every piece of testimony. All these boring, boring days. What do they prove to the center question of the case, did she do it or did somebody else do it and cover it up? So let's break down the twists and the turns and all those red plastic pieces from day 20 of the trial. Just minutes after court began, Judge Beverly Kanoni informed the courtroom that there was, quote, an issue and it was serious enough to warrant a one on one sidebar conversation with every single juror and the alternates. She did not elaborate on what the problem was, but she made it crystal clear no one was to speculate or discuss the case among themselves. With little explanation, the entire courtroom, press included, was cleared out and the live stream video was shut off. Boom. Right? He thought, was this like a bomb threat or what's going on? But the jurors were questioned one at a time by the judge with both the prosecution and the defense present. And that meant Karen Reed was sitting right there and was able to listen in. Judge Kanoni said the following, quote, an issue has come to my attention that is going to make it necessary that I talk to each one of you at sidebar, end quote. Testimony was delayed for more than an hour. And then Judge canoni told the 18 jurors this, and this is important, so lock this in. Quote, it's very important that no one discuss this case. Don't let anyone talk to you about this case. No comments about the case. That means each other. She said, yeah, okay, I getting kind of a clue as to what the problem was about. None of the jurors was dismissed, but two of the jurors had to swap seats. Another clue. Yeah, I think one was in the front row and had to swap to the back row and the other one had to swap to the front row. But that tells me, and I'm just speculating here, folks, but that tells me that it became, you know, obvious or the judge became aware that maybe some jurors were talking about the case because the jurors are not allowed to discuss anything about the case until deliberations. It's really weird, right? These guys are like all together, all the time throughout the entire case, but they're not allowed to talk about it. They have to listen in court. And when they go back into the jury room or go get lunch, they can talk about the weather, they can. They can talk about the golden bachelor. They can talk about anything they want. They cannot talk about anything regarding the case, and they can't listen in to anyone else talking about the case. So if the table next to you is talking about the case, you either have to tell them, please stop, Emma, juror, or you gotta pick up your, you know, Subway sandwich and move to another table. So it seems to me that if she had to reposition two of the jurors so that they're no longer sitting near to each other, I think maybe these two jurors might have been chit chatting and maybe someone else squealed or at least let the judge know. Or maybe one of those jurors told the judge. Well, yeah, I was chatting, but I didn't think it was a big deal. But it is a big deal. So I'll have a little bit more to say about it in a second. But outside court, Karen Reed, obviously she was in there for this. So everybody asked her what happened, what was going on, and she told reporters that she wasn't allowed to talk about it. So we really still have no official word on what the mystery issue was. But I suspect, you know, a couple jurors chatting about the case during their downtime. And while it's a big no, no, I do want you to know this, don't cast aspersions on them. If they did, these people, these jurors were plucked from their lives, right? And they had been stuck inside a courtroom for weeks on end. And day after day, some of the stuff is boring as fuck. Like, honestly, as a journalist, I'm like, please move on. You're getting nowhere. You're boring me. But these people have a job. They have to listen to everything. And they are stuck there. They can't just get up and then go do something else or check their email when they're bored. They have to listen to all of this and this technical testimony, you know, these experts that can make your eyes glaze over. And the whole time that they're immersed in all of this, they can't share one word with each other about what they're hearing all day long or with their families or with their friends or anybody. Like, you just want to burst. Just think how hard it would be if this were you. So you can forgive them if one or two of them shared a thought once in a while, even though it's for bottom. Right? Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now. By mid morning, the jurors were back in the box. And instead of resuming with forensic scientist Christina Hanley, who was expected to come right back onto the stand and finish her testimony from day 19, the prosecutor instead called Dr. Ezek Wolf, a neurosurgeon. So yes, he is testifying out of order. But let me tell you, this is not unusual. This happens all the time in trials. Even though it would be, it would be ideal to present your case in order, like a bedtime story, with every witness carrying the narrative forward from the last. Everybody has a schedule, right? And not every witness is available at exactly the time that your trial requires them. And sometimes, sometimes things come up, sometimes witnesses get sick. Lots of things can happen. So that's what's happening here. This is a little out of order. Your trial can't be perfect. You do the best you can. So anyway, Dr. Wolfe is going to cut in and like, jam in some testimony. And he explained, Dr. Wolf did that. He reviewed John O' Keefe's autopsy photos and the official medical examiner's report. And when he was asked about a prominent head laceration that was seen in the photos, Dr. Wolf described it as classic blunt trauma injury. And in plain English, he said this is exactly what happens when soft tissue, like, you know, somebody's scalp hits something hard, you know, like pavement. He said he believed that John o' Kee fell backwards and struck the back of his head on solid ground, causing that injury. And when pressed, when pressed by the prosecution, Dr. Wolf said the injury pattern did not align with being hit by something like a baseball bat because that would typically cause a depressed skull fracture. And o' Keeffe did not have that he emphasized again that this was textbook blunt force trauma from a backward fall. And this is kind of painful to watch. I'm not going to lie. I mean, literally, it was painful to watch because the jury was shown very graphic photos of John Okeefes head wounds as Dr. Wolf was describing the mechanics of what likely happened to John. And at one point, John's mom, Peggy o' Keefe, quietly got up and slipped out of the courtroom. No matter what you think about this case, you have got to feel for Peggy because she's a mom, and she lost her son in an awful way. And the whole world is looking at his dead body and talking about his dead body and injuries like they're just pieces of testimony and evidence. Right? They're looking at the injuries that killed her child. If I were her, I'd have left the courtroom, too. So, again, I always say, no matter where you fall in this case, please give a little love, even if it's silent. Send your prayers to Peggy and John o' Keeffe's family, because you know what? They didn't. They didn't do this. They didn't deserve this. And this is just horrifying stuff to go through. So Dr. Wolf also talked about something known as raccoon eyes, something I have had when I get a hangover. But apparently raccoon eyes, in his terminology, is far more serious. They're dark bruising around the eyes, and they can actually be a sign of a skull fracture at the base of the head. Super interesting, right? Raccoon eyes with a skull fracture at the base of the head. But he did make one thing clear. He said raccoon eyes do not cause the skin to break open. But the weird thing is, is that John o' Keefe had a cut. He had a laceration on his upper right eyelid. Right. Dr. Wolf had seen it in the medical examiner's report. But still, he said that injury had nothing to do with the skull fracture and nothing to do with the fall that he thinks John had, that it was completely unrelated. Karen's defense lawyer, Bob Alessi, followed up with cross examination, and he zeroed in on the cut on John's right eyelid, implying that that cut might actually be important in all of this. Right. And Dr. Wolf was clear. Raccoon eyes would not explain that mysterious cut to the eyelid. And with no more questions from either side, Dr. Wolf was excused. And then it was back to the forensics. Let's go back in order. Let's get Christina Hanley back on the stand. Okay? So, yes, she was out of order for a bit, but boom, once the doctor was gone, Christina Hanley is back on, and she's the Massachusetts State Police forensic scientist. She began testifying on Tuesday, and she returned to the witness stand today. And prosecutor Adam Lally began by revisiting some of the glass evidence, including photos the forensic scientist herself had taken of irregular shards from what appeared to be a broken cup. Some of the pieces appeared to have dirt or debris of some kind on them. The scientists testified that out of nine pieces of clear glass that were recovered, six of them physically fit together, meaning that you could reassemble them like. Like a puzzle. But the other three did not connect, even though they were still part of the same evidence batch. And then came the red plastic. The forensic scientist described all of the debris from John o' Keeffe's clothing that she had been asked to look over and to test. And the batch included one clear plastic piece and several red plastic fragments. She said the red plastic collected from John o' Keefe's clothing was, quote, consistent in color, microscopic look and chemical makeup with red plastic taken from the broken taillight of Karen Reed's Lexus suv. In her words, quote, it could have originated from the Lexis or from another source with the same characteristics. Next, this forensic scientist explained her testing process. And if you are not a chemist, don't worry. We've got you covered. Because actually, she made it sound easy enough for the jury and for you and me to be able to understand it. She apparently used this machine that shines infrared light through an item, and then she reads the way the material reacts to that infrared light. The output is a spectrum, a graph that shows the material's unique fingerprint, quote, unquote, fingerprint. And by comparing the peaks in those graphs from different samples, a scientist can say whether two items are actually made from the same kind of plastic. In this case, the spectrums from the clothing debris, John's clothing debris, and the Lexus tail light, Karen's Lexus, those lined up, making them a possible match. And then came Karen's lawyer, the hotshot lawyer, Alan Jackson. He got his turn to cross examine this forensic scientist, and he wasted no time. He asked whether the expert could say definitively that the red plastic found on John o' Keefe came from Karen Reed's suv. Simple question. And she said she could not answer that. She repeated what she said earlier. It may have. Or it may have come from something else with the same properties. Karen's lawyer also asked if there was any blood or any skin or any biological matter on the gun, on the glass, or on the plastic that she'd examined. And the scientist said that really wasn't her area of expertise but that she did not note anything that was consistent with biological matter. And next, Alan Jackson, hotshot lawyer, he turned to the taillight evidence and he asked a seemingly simple question. Is it all plastic or is there any glass? And the scientist checked her notes and said she didn't note any glass on the taillight, just plastic. Karen's lawyer went further digging into how the scientist had labeled her evidence. She had referred to items by number, but Karen's lawyer pushed her to confirm the names and the origins. Like who actually collected this stuff, who collected the evidence. She confirmed that the envelopes she received were marked with the names of Massachusetts State Sergeant Yuri Buchanak and former Massachusetts State Trooper Michael Proctor. As in the same guys that Karen's team is constantly calling into question as possibly being part of a conspiracy and a cover up and an effort to frame Karen Reed for John o' Keefe's death. Karen's lawyer then focused on a specific part of the evidence that was tested. A red fragment of plastic from the bumper and a red plastic solo cup. The scientists said the materials were an instrumental match, which meant they're made of the same kind of stuff. And that means the plastic from the solo cup and the red fragment from the bumper are chemically similar. You see where he's going here, right? He's trying to suggest. So wait a minute, you're seeing red plastic fragments? Well, guess what? The cops had red plastic stuff too. Solo cups. So maybe there's doubt here. Maybe the red plastic that you're seeing on John's clothing, these little fragments are, aren't from Karen Reed's tail light. Maybe they're from the red plastic solo cups because apparently they're from the same kind of chemical stuff. After a brief follow up by the prosecutor Adam Lally, the forensic scientist's testimony was done. And I think you could probably say that Alan Jackson, the hotshot attorney for Karen Reed, probably earned his many, many thousands of dollars that he should be paid for this trial. I don't know if he is. You know, Karen Reed's not made of money and she's already been through a one trial and this is a whole second one. So, you know, it's entirely possible some of these lawyers just do this because they think it's the right thing to do or they think it's really great for their career or they really believe in the case. Alan Jackson could be one of those. Judge Canoni then told the jury that the court is ahead of schedule. I hear that sometimes, but not all the time. I far more often hear that we're behind schedule. Pick up the base. Let's go. But what Judge Canoni said, being ahead of schedule means that there will be no court tomorrow on Thursday, May 22, and no court again Friday, May 23. And, hey, if you're in America, you'll understand this. If you're not in America, Monday is a big old deal for Americans. It's Memorial Day. And courthouses and banks and, you know, all these official offices, they're closed. So this courthouse will be closed on Monday. So the trial is going to have to pick back up on Tuesday morning of next week. That is a very long break for these jurors. Almost a week, right? A week, less a day. Since the judge told the jury they're ahead of schedule. The jurors are finally getting, I guess what you could call a bit of a breather after 20 packed days of testimony. This is a very, very long weekend to pause, to reset, maybe to absorb everything they've seen and heard so far in the case. But remember, they're not allowed to talk. They're not allowed to talk to anybody about anything that they've been doing in this courthouse other than lunch and, you know, anything else that has nothing to do with the trial. And this is no easy feat because for almost a week, they'll most likely be together with family and friends over this holiday weekend, and undoubtedly someone is going to ask them, hey, how's it going on that case you're doing? And they're just going to have to be really strong and say, sorry, I can't discuss it. After the judge's admonishment this morning, though, at least it's fresh in their minds just how important it is to follow her instructions. Because if you don't, it can cause a mistrial. And we'll be back here again for trial number three. And the good folks in Massachusetts will have to pay for all that. The defense says it thinks the prosecution might actually be ready to rest sometime next week. And when that happens, things may start moving fast. So buckle up for Karen Reed's lawyer and her team to present their side of what they think happened that terrible night that John o' Keefe lost his life. And we will be here for every second of it. I'm Ashley Banfield. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for watching. Make sure you subscribe. I say that because I just keep throwing down all these bonus episodes. I'm doing another one tonight. Brian Enten is about to join me in a couple of minutes to talk about a big development in the Idaho case. It turns out that that Dateline episode that aired a few weeks ago, the one that, like bro open so many incredible scoops from, you know, what is essentially a airtight gag order case, that now Brian Kohberger's lawyers are very worried and they want a delay in the trial. And the judge is now discussing it. So it's very, very possible we may not have this trial starting the first week or the second week of August. Who knows if the judge is going to say, yep, okay, it's an important enough issue that we need to take a break and deal with it. Or if he's going to say, this thing is on track. We got a lot of things booked and I've X out my calendar for this. Who knows? But this is what I'm talking to Brian about and the implications of it. So make sure you subscribe so you don't miss really great bonus episodes like that. And remember, if you forget everything, remember this. The truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.