Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (6:35)

911, where's your emergency? I need, I need help.

Ashley Banfield (6:39)

There is my, my friend, he just.

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (6:43)

Was in the mic.

Ashley Banfield (6:44)

Now he's getting hella. I don't know what to do anymore. And what's your name and what's going on? My name is, my name is Brendan Banfield.

Defense Attorney (6:51)

I'm a, I'm a, I'm a federal agent.

Ashley Banfield (6:54)

This is my house. There's somebody, there's somebody here. I, I shot, I shot him. But he stabbed her. She's bleeding. She's got several, several marks on her neck. What do I do?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (7:08)

Okay, so what I need you to do is apply direct pressure directly to where she's bleeding from. Okay? And if it becomes so clear, just add more cost to it.

Ashley Banfield (7:16)

It's already there. The male caller on the phone was Christine Banfield's husband, Brendan banfield, and now 40 year old Virginia IRS agent and again, no relation to me. The female caller was a 23 year old woman named Juliana Perez Magalis, also known as the Nanny. Juliana was hired as an au pair live in nanny by Brendan Banfield and his wife Christine. Nearly a year and a half before the murders, Juliana had moved into their million dollar home in Herndon, Virginia. She'd come from Brazil on a work visa. And no one could ever imagine what would happen on the morning that police met her for the first time. Prosecutors say that what went on there did not come out of nowhere. And that the relationship between Brendan the man of the house and Juliana the nanny was nowhere near professional. This was not a crazy home invasion as they were being told. Right? The cops are being told what the hell. This intruder and my poor wife. No, this was something completely pre orchestrated and Planned. At the heart of this crime, police say, was an illicit love affair and a plan to kill off one part of the love triangle. And you know who that part was, right? The unsuspecting wife. Police say, you got the master of the house, you got the nanny, and they're getting along great. And suddenly there's a dangling participle in Christine Banfield, the wife. And she needed to go. So investigators say that sometime In August of 2022, about a year after this nanny, Juliana, moves into the home, she and the master of the house, Brendan, begin a secret affair. Then, as detectives dug deeper and deeper, they quickly realized that this was not just a secret relationship. This was a whole double life. These two were heading out on private trips, they were going to concerts, and their photos looked way more like they were a couple than, you know, employer and employee. And then there's the pics of this happy couple at a gun range. Yeah. And that's going to matter a whole lot in just a moment, so be patient. Juliana Perez Magalis was arrested several months after the murders. They hauled her in on October 19, 2023, and she was charged with second degree murder in the death of Joseph R. Ryan, the strange man found dead in the master bedroom, along with the lady of the house, Christine Banfield. And nearly a full year after the nanny's arrest, guess who else was arrested? Ding, ding, ding. Brendan Banfield. He was hauled in on September 16, 2024, for the murders of his wife, Christine Banfield, and the stranger, Joseph Ryan. The prosecutors indicted Brendan on four counts of aggravated murder, one count of using a firearm in the commission of a felony, and one count of child abuse because his four year old daughter was inside the home while the massacre was happening upstairs. And for good measure, the cops threw in one more. And I'm glad about this, and I'll explain it in a minute. They threw in a felony charge of child cruelty. Well, that probably makes you think that maybe they did something to the little one, right? They did. Allegedly. But not what you think. And again, I will explain why this child cruelty matters so much, even though that child is downstairs in the basement when all this is going on in the master bedroom. But not long after Brendan was taken into custody, I mean, shit went sideways because the nanny suddenly decided to sing like a canary.

Gigi McKelvey (11:18)

Whee.

Ashley Banfield (11:20)

And she pleaded guilty, hoping the prosecutors would go easy on her, show her some mercy. You know, it is always amazing to me how a year in lockup can squeeze the very best of him to start spilling the tea. And Juliana, the nanny she agreed to testify against the cheating, scheming man of the house, the man she'd been sleeping with. Brendan Banfield. No relation. And like clockwork, in exchange for her cooperation, Juliana the nanny's charges were reduced to manslaughter with a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. Don't get me started. I need to get off the ledge. 10 years for me if you're a part of this kind of orchestration. But okay, they have their reasons. And whatever those reasons are, prosecutors have since said that they will recommend that Juliana be released with only time served and then deported. Off you go back to Brazil. After Brendan's trial is over, after she gets up there and does what she's gotta do, and that is spill the goods under oath, on the stand before a jury. And you better do it. But the strings are definitely attached here. And Juliana's got to agree to be that star witness. She's agreed. She's got to agree to just spill it against her boobs, right? That cheating, lying, scheming husband of poor Christine Banfield, the victim in this case. And so the story came flooding out of this nanny. Juliana told the police that after she and, you know, man of the house began their affair, Brandon said he wanted to get rid of his wife, Christine. How convenient. Juliana says she told him just to get a divorce because, you know, gosh, isn't she Puritan? But that he allegedly said, quote, that's not what I'm thinking about. Don't you love the quotes that come from someone else's mouth? This nanny told the police that Brendan replaced the windows in the home with higher end sound dampening glass. And she says he even tested how soundproof they were by yelling from the upstairs while she stood outside, you know, to see how much could actually be heard. She also told the investigators that in the months leading up to the killings, Brendan took her to different firing ranges to teach her how to use a gun. Their plan would be careful, but elaborate, she said. She said Brendan orchestrated the whole thing. Where an unsuspecting patsy would be found on the Internet and lured to the house and would arrive for some kind of made up BDSM session with his unsuspecting wife. One that Christine would know nothing about. Right? And that the whole thing would explode into chaos with his wife in a panic. He would come in as the white knight and kill that so called BDSM intruder that he had lured under his wife's name. And then kill his wife, too. Right, and make it look like the intruder did it. Brilliant. Brilliant. On paper, in the end, Brendan, according to his mistress, the nanny would look like a hero avenging his wife's murder by a sick and twisted intruder. Investigators say Brendan created an account on a site called FetLife. And if you've been to FetLife, it's a website where people explore and roleplay sexual fantasies. So police say Brendan started reaching out, pretending to be Christine, pretending to be his own wife, and reached out to a user named Joseph Ryan. The cops say Brendan was looking for a very specific type of person, somebody willing to play a violent game, violent role playing, somebody who would lean into the violent fantasy without asking too many questions. And Joseph Ryan apparently fit that profile and took the bait from there. Prosecutors say Brendan Banfield, no relation, continued this whole interaction with Joseph Ryan, pretending to be Christine, eventually even getting the nanny to step in on the telegram messaging app and take over and continue to be Christine. Together, the two of them would pretend away and lure Joseph Ryan. Right, keep the communications going. So the app allows for private calls and messages. And investigators say it became a very important part of the alleged setup, a key part of it. Just days before the killings, the nanny, Juliana, is accused of calling Joseph Ryan, this poor, unsuspecting mark, and again pretending to be Christine, the poor, unsuspecting wife. And they say the purpose of this call, allegedly from Christine, of course, it's not her, Was not to flirt, but to lock down firm details and to confirm that everybody believed this encounter was consensual. Investigators say that Joseph Ryan was under the impression he was meeting Christine for a consensual encounter involving rough sex and restraints and that her clothing was to be cut off with a knife. That's what she wanted, right? That's what her communications with Joseph Ryan suggested. Cut it off with a knife, use a knife, make it rough. But it's not her. It's not Christine. The allegation is it's her filthy cheating husband and that filthy, cheating nanny pretending to be her. If the cops are right, Christine had no idea any of this was going on. To be clear, the defense disputes who was controlling the accounts and the communications. Right. And that's going to be a question for the jury, but there's plenty of evidence coming, so, you know, buckle up. They've also suggested that the so called catfishing theory, that that was manufactured by the investigators. The defense says, no, no, no, no, no. There was no catfishing going on. This was not Brendan and the nanny pretending to be Christine. This was actually investigators making this whole catfishing story up. And that it was Christine communicating with Joseph Ryan that she was sick and twisted and into the BDSM and all the rest and cheating on her husband. Right. But the manner in which Christine's account was communicating with Joseph Ryan did not seem like Christine at all. And that's from her family and her friends, people who know her best. And eventually verified by who else? The nanny. Because the nanny decided to chirp and confess and told the whole story that it was her, the nanny and her lover, the man of the house, orchestrating this whole thing, pretending to be Christine, pretending to be into bdsm, finding some guy out there to lure them to the house to come in and be rough with her. And Christine would have no idea. Could you imagine the terror. Could you imagine the terror in Christine when some stranger comes into her bedroom, she's sleeping, and she wakes up and he's got a knife and effectively is going to role play this rape. But she doesn't think it's role play. She thinks an intruder has come in and is going to cut off her clothes with a knife and rape her. Right. I can't even go there. Prosecutors maintain that the purpose of those communications was exactly that. To lure Joseph Ryan to the Banfield home, which is exactly where he arrived on the morning of February 24, 2023. Police say the nanny told her lover, the man of the house, Brendan Banfield, no relation, that she did not think he was going to be able to go through with it and that she did not think she wanted to go through with it. And she tells the police that she said this several times before the actual day of the murder. But according to police, they say the nanny confessed that Brendan told her it was too late to back out. Isn't that convenient? She had second thoughts. This nanny, this puritan nanny. Can't believe we're doing this, Brendan. Maybe we shouldn't. It's so bad. No. Too late to back out. Well, okay, if you say so again. Whenever you hear a confession and they try to mitigate how ugly and foul and disgusting and murderous they are. Please. So on the morning of February 24, police say that nanny told Christine that other nannies were taking their kids to the zoo. And so that prompted Christine to say, great idea. And she bought tickets for the zoo for her daughter and the nanny to take her. Brendan, meanwhile, appeared to leave for work, but investigators say he instead made a convenient detour to a McDonald's to make it look like he was just stopping for some breakfast, and that McDonald's was conveniently just a couple Minutes from the house. And you'll find out why I say that's so convenient in just a second. Juliana then walks out of the house with the Banfield's daughter to ostensibly, quote, take her to the zoo. But it just so happened she conveniently forgot the packed lunches and only happened to return to the house to retrieve said packed lunches that were forgotten. Yeah, this is all part of the orchestration, right? Cops say the zoo was never going to happen and that the nanny simply waited around in a cul de sac in the neighborhood. You know, to give some time from. I left, I discovered I forgot the lunches, I came back. Oh, no, there's an intruder. Right. She needed to make sure that she could come back from the cul de sac and then happen upon this Joseph Ryan, right, this intruder. The plan was, as the nanny eventually confessed, that she would then grab her cell phone and call Brendan as soon as Joseph Ryan arrived at the house. All the while, Christine is sleeping upstairs, unaware of all of this. And in a sickening detail, Juliana, the nanny, admitted to the cops that she and Brendan had created an entire role playing scenario for Joseph by pretending to be Christine and convincing him, as Christine, that she would act different, terrified at the mere sight of him arriving in her bedroom with a knife. It would all be part of the the BDSM fun that they would have together. She would act terrified. Well, yeah, this is going to be Oscar worthy because she wasn't going to be acting, she was going to be terrified. She wasn't part of the plan. She wasn't in on this plan. Also part of the plan, the nanny would place a decoy call to Christine's cell phone. A cell phone that she and the man of the house, Brendan Banfield, grabbed and hid, turned it off, put it in a drawer, hid it away in a drawer. So that if Christine even tried to find her phone to call for help, she couldn't. They'd taken it, they'd hidden it, they'd turned it off. But wouldn't it be smart if this nanny, terrified that there's an intruder in the house just as I'm coming back to get the lunches for the zoo that I conveniently forgot, called Christine to warn her? Right? Wouldn't that be a smart phone call to make? So what do you think? Than any did she places the decoy call to Christine's phone, knowing full well that phone is in a drawer and it's turned off and it's not going to ring. But investigators later would certainly see she did it. Sure makes her look innocent. I'm trying to warn Christine there's an intruder in the house and I'm calling her phone. There's a dangerous home invader that I set up. The nanny then made another setup call to Brendan's phone and explained that this call was made so that they could tell the police that she was warning Brendan about a strange man entering the house. And Christine is sleeping upstairs. You better come back from work and save the day. And as if on cue, Brendan could then race home from the very convenient nearby McDonald's to save the day. And for good measure, to really throw police off their scent, he too made several calls to Christine's cell phone that he had allegedly shut off and hidden in the drawer, along with this cheating, lying piece of shit nanny. They knew full well it was in the drawer, but they also knew full well that investigators would look at digital records and wouldn't that make them look innocent if they were both trying to call Christine. Careful. Hide. There's a strange man in the house. What happened next is sharply contested, but here is what investigators are alleging. Brendan, man of the house. Juliana, mistress, nanny. Joseph, unsuspecting BDSM role playing guy who just thought he was coming for fun. And Christine, unsuspecting wife who has no fucking idea what is going on but is terrified that there's a home intruder with a knife cutting off her clothes. Right. They all end up in the master bedroom upstairs. Christine now sees her husband rushing in and thinks that she's being saved from this crazed intruder who's going to rape her with the knife. She even calls out to Brendan, be careful, he has a knife. And then yells to the nanny, call the police. Well, now, this wasn't part of the plan. But dum dum nanny, she does just that. She dials 91 1. That wasn't supposed to happen yet. Dum dum nanny. It was too soon. You weren't supposed to call 911 till it was all done, dum dum. So Brendan instructs her, hang up. Allegedly. So the call was very short, that first phone call to 91 1. Very short. It was a mistake. Brendan yells out, police officer pulls his IRS service weapon and shoots Joseph Ryan in the head. Right. White knight, shining armor, rescuing my wife. And then at Brendan's direction, Juliana says the plan was he orders her to open the safe, possibly to make sure that her fingerprints are on the safe, and then retrieves another gun. Again, the allegation here is that this is all an attempt to make investigators later on, homicide Detectives believe that Brendan and the nanny were terrified of this intruder. He says, go get the other gun and I've got mine. And they set into motion the family standard drill. This is my guess, just set into motion the family standard drill to fend off a home invasion with a gun from our safe. Just think of the level of detail here, right? Holy shit. It's not enough just to bring out your IRS service weapon and pump a few shots into Joseph Ryan's head. No, you're going to actually cover even further and make it look like we got a gun in a safe. And if there's ever an intruder.

Gigi McKelvey (26:59)

Get.

Ashley Banfield (26:59)

The gun out of the safe, back me up. That's my guess on this, Juliana. The nanny went back into the bedroom, and lo and behold, guess who was still alive. Joseph Ryan. This is her telling the story. This is her confession. She says she saw Joseph was still moving despite being shot by Brendan. And so she admitted on the stand, although it was like pulling effing teeth, that she herself delivered the final kill shot to a dying man. Execution style. Kill shot again. Wait till you hear it. It's disgusting. Prosecutors had to pull it like a lice comb out of her. She couldn't even bring herself to say it, even though she's doing it to save her own skin, right? Admitting all this, but just couldn't admit when it was really her. When police arrive on the scene, she swore that she shot Joseph Ryan in self defense. These two. These two prosecutors then allege that Brendan turned his attention to his wife, Christine, and then turned the knife on her. So just think about this for a second. Christine has just gone through the worst terror of her life. An intruder with a knife is knifing her clothes off her and going into the rough sex scenario, right? And she thinks she's going to be raped. And her husband comes in and saves her by killing him. And then, according to prosecutors, turns the knife on her and starts stabbing her to death. Just imagine the confusion and the terror all at the same time that Christine is going through. Like, wait, what is actually happening? I just got saved and now my husband is murdering me. Is this. I mean, I don't know how long she was processing this, but I mean, if that's not an aggravator in a murder, I don't know what is. But the prosecutors are saying the plan here is that Brendan is going to make it look like Joseph has done this. Joseph has stabbed his wife to death. All before shining. You know, knight in shining armor comes in. Brendan, the IRS agent, pulls his Service weapon and kills that knife wielding murderer. How clever. It was then, according to the nanny's confession, that Brendan told Juliana he was ready and signaled her to place the call that he'd always intended to be the first call to 91 1. Unfortunately, this is now the second call to 91 1. Right. This time reporting that an intruder had stabbed Christine Banfield. And that, according to the nanny, was what they, I guess, considered the perfect murder. Again, maybe on paper, but right away, investigators believe that the bodies were staged after their deaths. They say they discovered evidence that Christine's blood was smeared onto Joseph's body. Smeared, you know, if he's killing her, he'd be there on top of her, be all over him. But that it was conveniently smeared, which would mean somebody put it there. Opening Statements began on January 13, 2026, and one of the first witnesses out of the gate was the star witness, the nanny, AKA the au pair, AKA Juliana Perez Magalis. And boy, oh boy, oh, boy, oh, boy, oh boy, what an entrance she made. She came waltzing into that courtroom through the side door, you know, the one, the kind usually reserved for inmates who come in jailhouse snitches, people in custody, they don't come in through the back door and walk down the center aisle. They come in through the side door because they are in custody. And that's exactly what Juliana, the star witness, the au pair, the nanny, it's exactly what she did. She was there to testify against her love, Brendan Banfield, and testify for the prosecution. And here are some of the highlights from what she had to say on the stand.

Prosecutor (31:36)

Who opened the bedroom door?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (31:38)

Brendan.

Prosecutor (31:42)

Did you go inside the bedroom?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (31:44)

Yes.

Prosecutor (31:45)

And what did you see when you went inside the bedroom?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (31:48)

When we first got into the bedroom, I could see that the bed we have in the master bedroom was kind of tall. And so from my point of view, all you could see was.

Ashley Banfield (32:06)

Joe.

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (32:07)

At the moment I knew it was Joe, like on top of Christine in a way, on this crib, hold her hand, holding her down. And that was my. My first view as soon as I get into the bedroom.

Prosecutor (32:25)

Were you able to tell. Were you able to see Christine at.

Gigi McKelvey (32:28)

All at that point?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (32:29)

At that point?

Gigi McKelvey (32:30)

No.

Prosecutor (32:32)

Did anyone say anything when you. The two of you went into the bedroom?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (32:37)

Yeah, when I got to the bedroom, Brendan said he yelled, police officer. And Christine's first reaction. That was the first time I heard she say anything at that point. Then she yelled back at Brendan, saying, brendan, he has a knife. And, yeah, that's. That's when Brenda first shot Joe.

Prosecutor (33:12)

Did you see Joe before he was shot?

Ashley Banfield (33:15)

Yeah.

Prosecutor (33:17)

What did he look like when he saw Brendan?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (33:20)

Shocked.

Prosecutor (33:24)

After Brendan shot Joe, did anyone say.

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (33:28)

Anything, if anyone said anything?

Gigi McKelvey (33:30)

Yeah.

Prosecutor (33:31)

Did anyone say anything in the room at that point?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (33:33)

Yeah, because Brendan ran to Christine. She was still on the floor. And I think that point, she had seen me, and she said she had asked her what you do to Brandon. I think regarding to. That he shot Joe. And she said my name. She told me to get on the call 911.

Prosecutor (34:05)

And what did you do?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (34:07)

I called 911.

Prosecutor (34:10)

And what happened after you called 911.

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (34:15)

At that point, Joe was already shot. So that's the sound in the background. And Brennan looks at me and just in a way for me like to. To hang up the call.

Prosecutor (34:38)

Did he tell you. Did he say, juliana, hang up the call?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (34:41)

No, he did not.

Prosecutor (34:43)

How did he communicate to you?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (34:45)

A gesture.

Prosecutor (34:47)

And what gesture did he make?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (34:50)

This.

Prosecutor (34:52)

And at this point in time, could you see Christine?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (34:55)

Yes.

Prosecutor (34:57)

What did you see Brendan do next?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (35:01)

When I was bringing him the towel, he. He had Get. He. He got on top of her. And that's when I first saw him stabbing her with a knife.

Prosecutor (35:20)

Where in her body was he stabbing her?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (35:23)

Her neck.

Prosecutor (35:25)

And were you able to see whether or not he stabbed her one time.

Gigi McKelvey (35:30)

Or more than one time?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (35:34)

I. When I first saw that happening, I ran to the. To the other side of the. The. The bed. And I was just crouching down on myself and covering my ears and covering my eyes. And a few times I looked and I was able to see him stabbing her. And. He would stab. And other times he would hold the knife in a position. How that was.

Prosecutor (36:28)

What did you do at that point?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (36:30)

At that point, that's when I was. I stand in front of the dresser and the tv and I'm telling Brendan that Joe is moving. He was moving and brenless. He doesn't have any reaction to that whatsoever. And I just start telling him his movies behind you. And that's when I fired the shot, too.

Prosecutor (37:18)

That's when you. Could you say that again?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (37:21)

I fired.

Prosecutor (37:24)

And when you say you fired, you fired what?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (37:26)

A gun.

Prosecutor (37:28)

The gun that. That was where?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (37:31)

In my. That I had in my pocket. The. The handgun.

Prosecutor (37:39)

Did you hit anyone?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (37:41)

Yes.

Prosecutor (37:41)

Who'd your head?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (37:43)

Joe.

Prosecutor (37:50)

What happened after you shot Joe?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (37:54)

After. Shot him? He falls back.

Prosecutor (38:05)

Did you see Brendan touch Joe's body after you shot him?

Ashley Banfield (38:10)

Touching?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (38:11)

Touching. No.

Prosecutor (38:12)

Did you see him interacting with Joe or Christine after you shot Joe?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (38:19)

Well, he was still stabbed in Christine, and he had there was. He got her blood in, a handful of blood, and he starts dripping on Joel's body.

Prosecutor (38:50)

Did you ever call 911 again?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (38:52)

Yes.

Prosecutor (38:53)

Why? Did you call 911 again?

Juliana Perez Magalis (Nanny) (38:56)

I called 911 again when he hit on his. Brendan told me it was ready for me to call.

Ashley Banfield (39:05)

Not surprisingly, the defense is disputing key aspects of what the police say happened in that bedroom. And they're pointing to digital evidence. They're pointing to internal disagreements among detectives themselves, detectives who got booted off the case for disagreeing. They're also pointing to whether the full picture of the crime was ever actually properly mined. Did they actually look for other potential suspects or other other potential theories, or did they just fixate on this one, John Ramsey style, and never look for anybody else? That's what the defense is using, and that's actually pretty clever if you think about it.

Defense Attorney (39:44)

The Commonwealth used her for their case. I understand the situation that she's in, and I understand the fact that she's away from home and she's young and she dependent on people and she's also depending on the commonwealth and they've put her in this situation and she's accepted it gladly, and I'm sorry to say many people would, but it's the devastation that that causes when you ask for that kind of testimony to be included in your case. So what essentially, and you may have heard it in media, is there's a theory called catfishing. And catfishing, for those who don't know it and people more experienced and more expert than I will be able to tell you specifically, essentially is assuming the devices of someone in order to get something done, is the easy, quick. There's probably more sophisticated explanation for it. But what they're saying is Brendan Banfield assumed his wife's devices, his computer, her computer, her phone, any other devices, in order to take on this, take on her Persona, in order to invite this gentleman, Joe Ryan, in. Catfishing is a theory that requires.

Ashley Banfield (41:17)

A.

Defense Attorney (41:18)

Conclusion that Christine Banfield gave up her devices. The Commonwealth's experts have concluded from the moment that the devices were examined and extracted that she did not give up her devices. And so then started the turmoil within the police department that I think is going to come out here. I doubt it will be in the Commonwealth's case, but there were people within the command staff who were trying to change what the experts said about Christine Banfield's devices. They were trying to say that Christine Bantfield did give up these devices or was away when those devices were being used. But you're going to have a conclusion that was from the very early moments that she had not given that up. Now, that's significant because all of the.

Gigi McKelvey (42:33)

Things.

Defense Attorney (42:35)

That Juliana Perez Magalhaes has talked to you about is inextricably intertwined with catfishing.

Ashley Banfield (42:47)

Those issues, along with the nanny's credibility, all central to this trial, folks. So, to help me sort this out instantly, I called Gigi. Gigi McKelvey is from Law and Crime. She's a correspondent there. She's also host of Pretty Lies and Alibis, the podcast, and she has been covering this case since the jump. So who else but the person who knows every detail? Here's our conversation. Gigi, great to have you on Drop Dead Serious. I'm always so appreciative for your perspective. And on this particular case, aside from the name Banfield, what stands out most about this particular case and its pattern?

Gigi McKelvey (43:28)

Man, Ashley, this is one of the most bizarre cases I've covered in a while, and I'll tell you why. They almost planned the perfect murder.

Ashley Banfield (43:37)

Allegedly alleged.

Gigi McKelvey (43:39)

They. Yeah, I was about to say they allegedly. They almost planned the perfect murder with doing all of this while Christine was home upstairs, asleep. You know, it made it look like she was in the house and probably using her laptop, which ultimately caused some conflict within the police department with the homicide unit. Some of the investigators thought he wasn't Cap. Joe Ryan wasn't catfished. This was Christine talking to him. They were reassigned. I mean, that's how convinced they were. And it wasn't until Juliana was arrested that. And sat for a while, almost a year after she was arrested, that she. She took the deal and Brendan was arrested. But the way this was planned, I've never seen anything like it.

Ashley Banfield (44:26)

Super deep. I mean, super detailed. And I always go back to my original teachings in the true crime world, and that is that you never know whose fingers are doing the walking. Right. And you never can trust a snitch, either. And so I could see a defense attorney seizing on both of those things, and it sounds like that's where this trial's going, is that Brendan Banfield. And I choke on the name, obviously, because I've never had to cover a Banfield in a murder. I just want to say, you know, I'm not a Smith. There's been no other Banfield that I've covered in True Crime. But I could see Brendan Banfield's attorney really drilling down on those two things that you don't know whose fingers are on the keyboard. And if you think you can Trust this woman who's facing, you know, a potential life in prison? Think again. She'd say anything to get out of it.

Gigi McKelvey (45:16)

Yeah, and I have to tell you, I was a little surprised on cross exam that he did not drill her harder on that. For the most part, he was talking about her communications while she was in jail from talking to Brendan and his mother before she flipped. And also her mom and then Hollywood producers that are wanting to buy her story once she gets out of prison. But he really did not attack her credibility as the main witness and the person who allegedly planned all of this alongside him. I was really surprised he didn't take that opportunity. But the state is expected to rest tomorrow, so I'll be interested to see what kind of a case the defense puts on. And most importantly, does Brendan take the stand? I kind of feel like he has to with the admissions Juliana gave that were so detailed and really followed the evidence we've been shown so far. Then again, you know what happens when they get on the stand. It usually doesn't end well, but very convoluted and we'll see what happens. But I thought she was very credible on the stand, Ashley. I mean, she didn't hesitate. She didn't stutter.

Ashley Banfield (46:24)

Didn't she? I did. Isn't that funny? You and I have such a different read on her. I saw her looking at a monitor the whole time and checking off her checkpoints and. Well. And I'll tell you another thing, Gigi. I like cheaters. Like, I have never been able to give them the full weight of credibility once I know they're already liars and cheaters. I just can't do it. And I know that that's probably not the most open minded way of looking at a witness, even a flipped witness, but. And listen, there's no love lost here for Brendan Banfield. I think he's a piece of shit. But I do have that feeling about jailhouse rats, former mistresses. Former. There's no equivalent word other than master. You know, cheating men and people who flip. Informants who flip to get a better deal. I struggle with that mightily. Even though I tend to believe what she said and the orchestrated way in which she laid out this awful crime pattern. But in the end, I still think that the field is ripe for mining all sorts of pratfalls in the. In the prosecution's case. Just because she's a liar and a cheater and a killer.

Gigi McKelvey (47:37)

Yeah, I agree. And the one thing, too is she had every reason to flip on him. And, you know, in the defense's eyes come up with this huge story because she is getting a really good deal. I mean, the maximum is 10 years, but the.

Ashley Banfield (47:52)

I don't get that. I don't get that.

Gigi McKelvey (47:54)

Me either. How can you go from two counts of murder down to manslaughter with the prosecution recommending time served and then being deported back to Brazil where she can make any monetary deal she wants once she's there because the, the Son of Sam laws don't apply over there.

Ashley Banfield (48:10)

I will say this though. Judges, and I'm not sure about this jurisdiction in Virginia, in the Commonwealth, but judges do have a lot of latitude. What the prosecutor hands them is something called a recommendation. And so the judges don't always have to go with that. And I have seen in plenty of cases where judges have thrown the book and like just squashed the skulls of these defendants who think, well, I did the thing, now give me my candy. And they don't get it. And they are shocked and they, you can see it on their faces when the judge, you know, throws the book and goes way over the recommendation. And I just wonder if you know anything about the machinations or cannady of the Virginia law on this one. I don't.

Gigi McKelvey (48:49)

I really don't. But I, I mean I do know that the judge is at her discretion of how much time served. And within the, the. My community, my listeners in chat every day, especially on cross the way it became an. I don't know, she got an attitude. Everybody said, I really hope this judge just gives her the 10 years. Because Juliana really does seem to think once this trial's over, she's got a one way ticket back to Brazil.

Ashley Banfield (49:15)

Well, listen. Well, I suppose is the. Is 10 years the max? There's nothing that, that there's nothing else the judge can do. There's no other enhancements. There's nothing else that the judge has latitude on.

Gigi McKelvey (49:25)

Not that I'm aware of everything I've researched. The maximum On Manslaughter is 10 years. And that is it.

Ashley Banfield (49:32)

That makes me mad because oftentimes I've seen these judges say, I see your recommendation and I raise you another 15. You know, and I wish that were the case in here, but thank God for the Internet, that'll be helpful because I see this person as a foul beast. I don't care if you're up there trying to do good. Now you barely are trying to do good. You're doing the least possible to save your own ass. We all know it. We all see through you. And you like you said, there's a lot of I don't knows and I don't recalls, which sounds to me like you're not that cooperating. It's bullshit. When you can't remember extraordinary things on the most extraordinary part of your life, on the worst, most terrifying day should have been the worst, most terrifying day of your life, and you can't remember little details. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Gigi McKelvey (50:21)

Yeah, I tell you, if I had a dollar for every time she said, I can't recall or I don't know when she was on cross, I could retire. It was every other. I mean, it was just about every question. To be honest, she didn't give much up to the defense attorney at all, which again, surprised me that he didn't go hard on her and just really unleash and say, you planned this, you know, allegedly planned this too, just as much as my client allegedly did. Nothing like that. It was all covering her communications through the jail app.

Ashley Banfield (50:52)

It's weird. It makes me wonder what kind of counsel I know that the money ran out like the spigot was turned off by Brendan Banfield's family who'd been, you know, hoping that she'd play ball for him. What idiots. But I don't know what kind of attorney she got after that. What the advice was, get up on the stand, sister, and open the damn floodgates. Do not hold back because your deal is resting on it, Max or not. That judge will listen to you. And if that judge thinks you're holding back, she'll be none too kind. I just wonder if she got that advice and what the benefit of holding back would be if she thought she was maybe making herself sound better to get a lesser sentence. That's not how it works in court.

Gigi McKelvey (51:37)

Yeah, and there really wasn't anything that she testified to on direct that made her sound better. She was very enmeshed with Brendan in the planning from day one and even went so far as to have a voice to voice conversation with Joseph Ryan that the week of the murders to verify that he was coming. And also he wanted to make sure this was consensual. He was surprised by her Brazilian accent, but nonetheless very actively catfishing this guy. If her and Brendan were at the gym and she left early, she would immediately grab Christine's laptop and get on this fet life and make posts trying to find that right person who wouldn't ask many questions, but also would go about this in what they thought was a consensual, very violent way. And they found Joseph.

Ashley Banfield (52:28)

I mean, you know, this underscores a whole other podcast about just like how dangerous it is out there to be doing these kinds of meetings. My God, who to thunk right, that, you know, the worst you can expect is that the sex partner you're going to meet up with has too much kink and maybe you're going to get banged up and hurt or robbed. But who to thunk that the sex partner isn't even aware of what's coming? And these other two are allegedly plotting your murder and hers. Which brings me to this question. I have been at this game a very long time and I do not recall, I'm trying to remember. I do not recall a plan as thorough as and as detailed and as far down a digital rabbit hole as this one. Almost as though CSI in 48 hours and forensic Files have been on the air so long that people are now going to like virtual university to figure out how they're going to, you know, pull off the perfect murder. Because, and I'll just give you an example of why this tweaked for me the story of, of the nanny going out outside the house and waiting for Joseph Ryan to show up and then calling the mistress of the household, Christine Banfield's phone, knowing full well it's in a drawer and it's turned off, but making sure there's a digital call that registers as if to say, ma', am, I'm scared. Something's happening, there's an intruder. You know, they thought that deeply into the post murder investigative detective work that would be done. And I don't know that I've seen this much track covering, have you?

Gigi McKelvey (54:13)

No. And I'll tell you one thing. Brendan is a, or was a federal agent with the irs. He had a department issued vehicle as well as his weapon were both registered to the irs. And he knew, he mentioned several times, there will be an investigation. So let's cover our tracks here, here and here so that it's more believable during the investigation. And we saw it because you had detectives fighting amongst themselves and reassigned because half of them thought she didn't catfish anybody. Christine did this. And then the other half said no way she did this. So it almost worked. But you and I know there's no such thing as a perfect murder.

Ashley Banfield (54:53)

There isn't. And I'm, I'm still kind of shocked at this one. I'm, I'm also surprised at how careful this pair was allegedly to make sure that Christine Banfield was in the home. Every time messages went out on her laptop. Because again, we've learned from a long time ago that that's the number one defense. You don't know whose fingers were on the keyboard. That's what the whole Casey Anthony defense was about, right? You don't know that that was Casey searching for chloroform. It could have been Mom. It could have been dad. They all lived in the home together. That was a big defense. Right? You don't know whose fingers are on the keyboard. And so for them to think that one through all the way to. Let's make sure that she triangulates geolocates, always to being in the home with her laptop, when we get that laptop away from her and send those, you know, illicit messages to the so called BDSM Paramore.

Gigi McKelvey (55:47)

Yeah, yeah. And not only that, you know, part of it for me is that when she was laying out what happened that morning, they did show surveillance of him at McDonald's. So he had changed his routine a little while before the murder so that it wouldn't look odd that he stopped to get breakfast somewhere. This wasn't something he normally did. And so he's at the McDonald's, which is about five minutes from the house, maybe a little less. And you see on surveillance, he goes through the drive through, gets his order, circles around, goes in the parking spot, walks inside the bathroom, stays about eight minutes. But when he comes out, he is on the phone, walking with purpose, gets in his car and leaves. And so we've learned at trial, that is when Juliana called him to say, there is a strange man in your house. In the meantime, he had called Christine's phone several times before he got home just to share that digital trail that he got the call from the au pair. Oh, my gosh. My wife is calling to check on her, knowing where that phone is and that it's turned off. So really, every detail almost, they covered. And I think part of that may come from his work as a. As a federal agent or, you know, maybe he's watched a lot of these shows and understands how it's going to go. But everything down to a t, even the 911 calls that they showed us, the accidental call when poor Christine. When they come in the house, Joseph Ryan is holding her down. And the first thing she tells her husband, Brendan, he has a knife. Warning her husband, and then tells Juliana, call 91 1. Juliana is not thinking at the moment. It's not time. She's not dead. But she calls 911 and hangs up. They try to call her back a couple of times and realize Joseph Ryan is still moaning. So she shoots him in the chest. And then after that, he proceeds to kill Christine. But what's interesting, Ashley is on that 911 call when they are, they're asking, is she breathing? And number one, there's no emotion from Brendan whatsoever throughout the duration of that call. But he says she's still breathing. And the au pair says she's still breathing. Not like, oh, great, she's still breathing. Maybe there's hope.

Ashley Banfield (58:03)

It was, oh, no.

Gigi McKelvey (58:04)

Oh, my gosh, she's still breathing. In fact, she didn't expect that she was still alive. When first responders got there, they rushed her to the hospital. Ultimately, she passed and she couldn't say anything.

Ashley Banfield (58:14)

She wasn't able to say anything to them. That's the saddest part.

Gigi McKelvey (58:17)

No carotid was. Was her carotid and her jugular were severed 2 1/2 inches deep, was the deepest wound that actually left defect in the base of her skull. So he really tried hard, but tough cookie. She held it on as long as she could.

Ashley Banfield (58:33)

But of course, the prince would be Joseph Ryan's on the knife. Because that was the plan. Come and bring your knife. Let's cut my clothes off. You know, bring the knife, let me see the knife. You know, all sorts of. Again, the detail and the planning in this, it really is almost like a movie. And I'll bet you the rights are out there already and someone's already probably crafting this movie because it is clever. But I go back to, like, all the crimes I've covered, and I look at Jodi Arias and how she covered her tracks by putting fuel in the back of her car. Because even back then, what are we, 15 years, I think, since Arias is killing murder, she had the foresight or she'd watched enough of the shows to know that she couldn't stop for fuel. Even if she paid cash, she couldn't stop for fuel. And it was the kind of trip she was going to make to Travis Alexander where she was going to need a lot of fuel. It was a long drive. And so she put the gas in the back of the. Of the car in the trunk. So every time we come across one of these killings, we see one more element that these killers think they're getting smarter of. And I don't know what the next one's gonna be. I don't know what everyone thinks they know enough of right now to circumvent being caught, you know, in the months ahead.

Gigi McKelvey (59:45)

Yeah, I mean, and that's the Thing. You know, true crime is such a huge interest worldwide. Really. And, you know, every day we just have these dumb criminals that think they are going to be that exception that doesn't get caught. But as we know, Ashley, it doesn't take long, especially in this day and age with surveillance and. And, you know, however many times you're. You're on a Pharaoh scanner, that gets your. Your license plate. I always say, if you're going to commit a murder, leave your phone at home and ride a horse. And even then you'll probably get caught. But. Yeah, I mean, it does.

Ashley Banfield (60:17)

The horse will be on ring cam.

Gigi McKelvey (60:19)

Yeah, exactly. You know, and one interesting thing, too, that Brendan did before that day was he did ride around the neighborhood to look and see what neighbors had ring cams. His immediate neighbors, to my knowledge, did not. But he did ride around to see.

Ashley Banfield (60:32)

Who would catch even that. Like, let's just break that down for a second. Even if you think you're going to be the smartest criminal and you think you're going to do your research and you think you're going to do your reconnaissance, your reconnaissance is going to be caught. We've already seen reconnaissance. We've seen dry runs. I hate to mention because, listeners, I'm so sorry you hate it when I bring up CO Burger, but that has so many elements of this, right? A criminology student, you think we'd be the best at it, and he screwed up everywhere. And again, the reconnaissance, the dry runs, whatever you want to call it, all of that becomes elements of premeditation. And they're so easy to capture because you're caught on cam before you know there's a cam.

Gigi McKelvey (61:14)

Exactly. And that's what we see in pretty much every case we cover. Now, what's interesting is trial on Tuesday. The they have two more witnesses before they expect arrest. I really do think digital forensics is going to be their big aha moment for the jury. Because honestly, so far, other than Juliana's version of events, allegedly, there's not a whole lot pointing the finger directly at Brendan. Although it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out, you know, au pair affair, he wants his wife gone, and everything she testified to matched what we have so far. I'm really interested to see what the digital forensics show because shortly before the murder, actually a few weeks before the murders, he had the both of them trade their phones in and get new Apple IDs, because he knew during an investigation that's going to be one of the first places they look. So you Know, just every element in his mind he thought of to cover up this alleged. The murder he allegedly committed.

Ashley Banfield (62:13)

But you know how they say it's never the crime itself, it's cover up that gets you all tripped up and gives you more time. Just look at Martha Stewart. You know, she didn't end up going away for insider trading. She went away for lying. And so these guys or these women, whoever they are, they all think they're smarter than the average bear. And they don't realize that your work, your preamble, is likely the thing that's going to make this a premeditated case. I mean, that's what we're looking at in Ohio. Right? We don't know very many facts yet in Columbus, Ohio, but there's lots of rumblings online there may have been some original stalking. There may have been. A neighbor, I think, has mentioned that they thought they saw Dr. Michael McKee outside of Monique and Spencer Tepe's home. That hasn't been confirmed anywhere. But this is the kind of thing that. Where you think. Think you're doing smart work. You're literally leaving your footprints in advance of the crime because everything in advance of the crime can be as indicting as during and after the crime. Oh, you're muted.

Gigi McKelvey (63:18)

I was muted because my dogs are, like, going nuts out there. What were we saying?

Ashley Banfield (63:24)

Oh, just that you got to be careful of your advance, because it can be. It can be worse than your during and your after evidence.

Gigi McKelvey (63:30)

Yeah. And it all ties together before, during, and after your premeditation, the act itself, and then what you do to cover it up. I mean, this has all of that. You know, the thing for me is what. And this is something I don't think that's ever been revealed is what evidence did they arrest Juliana on, and why did it take almost a year to arrest Brendan?

Ashley Banfield (63:52)

Are you looking at my sheet of paper in front of me? Cause that is literally the next question.

Gigi McKelvey (63:57)

Oh, sorry.

Ashley Banfield (63:58)

Brilliant. Like, great minds think alike. I've been thinking, look, any detective worth his weight and salt, or her weight and salt, is going to look at the relationship between the nanny and the guy. If the mistress of the house is gone, the master of the house is going to have to have a full, you know, reaming, and so is the pretty girl who's, you know, been brought in for a year. And so I think, look, if I were a betting man, it would be the fact that they had this ridiculous bunch of photos that show them as lovers, you know, on trips and doing all sorts of Things that nannies and their employers don't do together.

Gigi McKelvey (64:37)

Right. And, you know, one of the things that was photographed that day on scene was her red lingerie in her closet. And then when they came back to the house in October, months later to do another search warrant, they go into that master bedroom. There's new furniture, new flooring, and guess what? Her lingerie hanging right there where Christine's clothes used to be. And all these photos of them kissing, hugging, you know, clearly like in a hot tub or something. And that definitely made the ears perk up for the investigators that, okay, maybe we have some motive here. So it was very interesting. But, you know, to me, to think knowing what they allegedly did in that bedroom and then to later on move in that bedroom and just change some things to, wow, you know, it had to really throw these investigators for, you know, into high gear.

Ashley Banfield (65:29)

Well, also, I think you and I have probably encountered this a few times before that love can blind you to a lot. And it could probably blind you to being extraordinarily careless with your cover up. And maybe the hubris that this guy has was such that. Look at that. Six months a year, I'm in the clear. Move in, baby, right into her bed. I've seen it happen before. I've seen them move right into the same bed. And it is such a giveaway. It's not necessarily evidence, but it is evidence of a motive. And juries love that stuff. They crave that stuff. And it is a very, very powerful piece of knowledge in the gut of a juror. Because guess what jurors bring into the deliberation room? Their gut.

Gigi McKelvey (66:15)

Yep. Common sense.

Ashley Banfield (66:17)

Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of shocking, isn't it, to think that. Do you think that there's an element of, like, you're punch drunk with this love affair such that you've lost your senses to cover up a murder?

Gigi McKelvey (66:33)

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think it's probably more lust than anything, but hey, that'll make you do just as crazy stuff as love will. I think that, you know, they were talking marriage and having babies of their own. So I think that maybe could be what made her go along with this so hard is, you know, she's in love with. This guy's 15 years older, but the only thing standing in their way was Christine. And that was. That was first mentioned on a trip to New York with. With Christine and Brendan's daughter and the au pair. I don't understand how they're just going on vacation, you know, while Christine's at home. But we don't know the dynamics of when she lived there. But just a lot of things really are very curious to me. But I think that he clearly wanted to be with the au pair and vice versa. And that's where a lot of your worst hatched plans come from.

Ashley Banfield (67:27)

You know, I keep thinking I'm really, really glad that there's a child abuse charge here and endangerment charge, because to think that this little girl is, I think, in the basement, well, holy hell is breaking out screams, gunshots, horror, all of it. You know, she heard that. There's no way in hell you can be anywhere in a house without hearing that. Especially if you're told, stay down there, you know, you know something's terrible, you're craning your little tiny ears. I am so glad that at the very least there's some justice that'll be coming specifically for that little girl.

Gigi McKelvey (68:11)

Yeah. And you know, she was interviewed after the murders, but the judge did rule her interview could not come in. I'm not sure why Brendan said he did not consent to his daughter being interviewed. I'm not sure if that's why. But I would have been interested to know what she heard. Would have been hard to hear knowing she was 4 years old at the time. But like you say, clearly with all that going on, she had to have heard something. And then how confusing that. Who knows how long after daddy and the au pair are sleeping in the same bed.

Ashley Banfield (68:40)

Oh yeah, how about that? I mean, that to me is also abuse. But I don't think that they would get anywhere with the, you know, the elements of it. But just personally for me, I think it's abusive. I will say this, the four year old, it's super, super interesting when it comes to these children. I've done a lot of cases with little ones and I watched a 6 year old get up on a stand when he was 7 after witnessing a murder when he was 6. And it was so controversial at the time because of the age. It's different in all states. Like not everybody has the same barometer for how old you have to be before you can be considered, you know, legally credible on a stand. But also because of the suggestibility of investigators. Not every investigator does the right thing and sometimes it's just unknowingly. Most of the time I think it is they don't know the psychology behind what you have to do to get the real truth from a little one. It is not just asking them questions because they'll just repeat back what you, what they think you want to hear?

Gigi McKelvey (69:38)

I do believe it was a forensic interview with somebody who specializes in interviewing small children that have, you know, witnessed violent crimes. But regardless. Yeah, the judge ruled that couldn't come in.

Ashley Banfield (69:49)

So the first person, though, because I did do a case where the forensic interview was not the first, and then it's almost like the well is poisoned. So you throw the kid in the back of the cop car, and the cop who's driving to the station says, what'd you see back there? Did you see someone killing some. Did you see someone killing your sister? Did you see your mom killing your sister? This was the case I covered. And so this child is trying to please this grownup, and by that point, doesn't matter what forensic interviewer comes in after that, that child's memory is kind of formed and is just sort of adulterated, you know?

Gigi McKelvey (70:21)

Yeah. And the other thing, too, is when they took Christine to the hospital, Brendan went in a separate ambulance. Juliana and the child went directly to police headquarters. So they weren't together? Together, yeah.

Ashley Banfield (70:34)

Together, yeah. That's easy to implant a few memories, right? You're the one who killed mommy, and now you're gonna say something to the kid. I can. I can only imagine the things that were said.

Gigi McKelvey (70:45)

Yeah.

Ashley Banfield (70:46)

So I'm glad that there are, you know, a couple charges in terms of looking at absolute justice for this child, which you'll never get. I mean, this child's losing both parents and in the most hideous way, and. And the caregiver she trusted. These three adults in her life, all the three people that were her world and the people she trusted, are all effectively gone, too. Obliterated in an ugly way that, you know, they're still there, but they're unmentionable and one she'll never see again. You know, this is really, really devastating to think about this little girl. What. Do you have any idea what the extended family's like?

Gigi McKelvey (71:18)

None. I mean, there's been so little said. I haven't heard many people speak out on Christine's behalf, which I was kind of hoping they would. Somebody to the stand that maybe worked with her that would give a little insight into her character and her personality. I think, even though it's probably easy for the jury to believe that she was clueless and this. This was a setup I would have loved, and maybe they will. We still have a couple of witnesses to go, but somebody to testify to her character. You know, sometimes you feel like the victims can get lost in these kind of cases where they're so crazy, and you have the au pair and the husband having an affair to where I feel like the victims can get lost. And Joseph Ryan, Very little said about him since these murders. I did see one little thing where his mom just said he was very socially aware, he loved his family, and just, you know, that's what I want people to know about him, because otherwise, you. You see him as the guy who is on this fetish website, which, consenting adults. I don't care what you do, you know, that's your business.

Ashley Banfield (72:19)

Well, you don't get a death sentence for it.

Gigi McKelvey (72:23)

Exactly. And when you go in that house thinking everything is consensual, the door was unlocked, like the person pretending to be Christine allegedly said it would be. She's upstairs, asleep. This was all according to plan to him, by the way.

Ashley Banfield (72:36)

And did anyone mention a safe word? Did you ever hear that, you know, usually in extreme BDSM and violence, there's usually a safe word. Did anyone ever mention, like, that they said, hey, you know, I'm Christine, and the safe word is going to be blank, so that they would have something? Because that's usually kind of typical.

Gigi McKelvey (72:52)

Well, the. The digital forensics have not come in yet, so I'm curious about that. You know, how far into that did they go right now? It just hasn't been said.

Ashley Banfield (73:01)

Well, because, of course, Christine wouldn't say the safe word because she had no idea.

Gigi McKelvey (73:06)

Exactly. She wouldn't know it. And Juliana did testify that when they busted up in the room, Joseph Ryan was absolutely shocked. Yeah. You know, as. As anybody would be thinking this was consensual. And then it was, you know, you're stabbing my wife. And then he shoots him in the head and doesn't kill him. And then Juliana puts that final fatal wound in his chest. He was pronounced dead on scene, and actually, his body was there that whole day as they're taking photos and stuff. But, yeah, just really sad, you know? I mean, two people, two innocent people, completely innocent, just murdered for.

Ashley Banfield (73:48)

You. Reminded me of something. And that is how Juliana on the stand talked about that whole putting that last bullet in. I watched that testimony, and I kept saying, you don't even have the guts to say it. They're having to extract every syllable out of her as if to say, just say it. You're here to confess. You put the final bullet in him. And she wouldn't say it. She was trying to get around it every way she could, as though she figured, oh, I think I'm gonna get out of this one. Like it was. Yeah, I don't know how you felt. I wanted to punch through the screen.

Gigi McKelvey (74:25)

Oh, yeah, me too. I made up a few curse words that day, yelling at the screen like she could hear me. But, yeah, it was very frustrating because we know what she did. She confessed to it to prosecutors, but. But didn't really want to come out and say it on the stand. I guess it's different when, you know, it's being live streamed to thousands of people and the courtroom's full and the jury is sitting right there looking at you, so, you know, but I don't think she felt any shame because there was not one ounce of remorse spoken out of her mouth the. The day and a half that she was on the stand. None. Not a single bit.

Ashley Banfield (74:59)

Which, again, makes me mad, and I hope it makes the. The judge mad, you know, because, again, judge has the discretion. I don't see that. I don't see this judge going easy on this woman. She is. She's an executioner. She's not just a murderer. She put a final bullet in a dying person. I mean, she is the worst of the worst. I still can't believe manslaughter. I don't know why that deal, but maybe that's. Maybe that's all they could get in order to really lock both of them up. But, you know, so much of what we do is about highlighting injustice to victims and shining a light on what those people do and not letting them get away with it. Right? The killers and the criminals just all over them so that the. The victim gets the kind of justice in the court, but also in the. In the public opinion they deserve. And when it comes to Christine, there's another thing that really bugs me about this case, notwithstanding the whole fact pattern of doing this to her, but having people, if their plan went according to the schedule and the cops never figured it out, literally, you are sending Christine out in the ugliest way publicly. Her legacy would be she was all into cheating with a BDSM guy who finally came in and knifed her to death. She got what she deserved. Literally. This husband was willing to have this daughter believe for the rest of her life that that's what your mother really was. You know, this is another thing that just makes my blood boil.

Gigi McKelvey (76:34)

Mm. I had the exact same thought, you know, all week thinking about this is thank goodness they were caught. But, yeah, I mean, you know, and we see this a lot in cases where children are involved. The burden that's put on them for the rest of their life. You know, everything about their life has taken A different trajectory. And to potentially had they gotten away with it. For her to find that out much later about her mother, it just, you know, almost insult to injury. It would have really just made, I'm sure, the confliction she's always going to have about what happened even worse.

Ashley Banfield (77:10)

And you know, with the Internet, especially with a weird name. Look, there's not a lot of Banfields out there, right? Again, I must remind everybody. No relation. But this child would see it. She would know. She'd hear the fact pattern. Some nasty bully would bring it up at some point in her life. But. But the fact that this child's father was willing to let that be her reality for the rest of her life, that her mother did this awful, awful thing and brought her own death upon her, you know, I just. I'm so thankful to whatever forces were involved here, be them, the Lord or the cops, I don't care who it was. But I am so thankful that the truth will come out and that the beast was this father. I just. All I want is that this child will know that her mother truly was the innocent party here.

Gigi McKelvey (78:01)

Yeah. And you know, I was thinking about this too, Ashley. You know, one day, if she ever watches this trial, she's going to see when all of these horrific photos of her mother's body on scene and during autopsy were being shown. He showed no emotion. But the only time I have seen him show emotion this entire trial was when Juliana first came in the courtroom to take the stand. He started watching her. He did not take his eyes off of her until she sat down. And it was just the most. He was very stoic, but it spoke volumes to me. But looking at the crime scene photos, autopsy photos of his wife, who, according to him, he walked in and saved her from being stabbed. No emotion whatsoever. Just like the 911 call. Yeah, it was very bad. Oh, so, yeah, I mean, were badly planned.

Ashley Banfield (78:48)

Yeah, that. That they weren't. They weren't getting their Oscar worthy.

Gigi McKelvey (78:51)

I was going to say it's a good thing he didn't pursue acting because he would have just been waiting some tables.

Ashley Banfield (78:56)

And honestly, that is a lot of times what the first, you know, tickle in the gut of a homicide detective is like, this doesn't look right. Not to say that it's always right. Cynthia. Summer. It wasn't right the way she behaved after the death of her husband, Todd. She was partying like a rock star and sleeping with all his friends. But she was not guilty because he wasn't murdered. They got it wrong. The samples were wrong. He didn't. He wasn't poisoned with arsenic. He died of a natural cause. And they. They can screw that up at times, but generally speaking, it's a good start. If you smell something awry, chances are, you know, your sniffer is probably not off, you know, and it helps you to start digging down and going down the rabbit holes, and the rabbit holes usually will provide you something when someone goes this deep.

Gigi McKelvey (79:41)

Yeah. And I'm very curious to see what the last bit of the state's case brings out. And then, you know, we will see what the defense case brings. I'm just very curious. Does he take the stand? You know, Juliana is subject to recall, but, yeah, it's going to be interesting. I think there's, you know, it seems to me like watching trials, they save the best for last, sort of the aha stuff. So let's hope they bring it tomorrow.

Ashley Banfield (80:04)

He's so terrible, though. His acting is so awful. Like, as a. As a defense attorney, I mean, you. You should be just barred if you put him on the stand, he's terrible. He couldn't get a lie out and save his life at this point or.

Gigi McKelvey (80:17)

A tear, because when they were showing those photos, he was wiping his face, but there were no tears. And I. He kept wiping up here. I said, is he. Is he crying from his temples? He's doing this. It was such a bad acting job, even right there at the defense table, trying to show emotion during his wife's autopsy photos. But, you know, as the case is with a lot of these defendants who allegedly murder people, you don't see that emotion. And if you do, it's forced, and it just doesn't look genuine for somebody to walk in on what he says is a man stabbing his wife to death. He has shown no emotion that. That would support that to me.

Ashley Banfield (80:54)

Yeah. And that's. That's just a huge, you know, red flag right there. So I want to talk about something that people don't like to talk about. They think it's unfair to talk about it, but I think it's the elephant in the room. And you touched on it a little bit. And that was the moment that Juliana walked into the courtroom and Brendan had this reaction, Right. My reaction was, that ain't the same girl. I have had this happen a lot in court cases. When somebody gets pinched out of freedom and thrown in the slammer for a year or so, there is a complete transformation. And that girl on the stand didn't look nothing like the girl who was posing in her pretty pictures. And I just wonder what your thoughts are on that, especially as pertains to how the jurors view her.

Gigi McKelvey (81:41)

Well, you know, I saw it when I was in the Jodi Arias courtroom. I'll never forget the first day I walked in there. I thought, where is she? I've seen those photos that were taken the day Travis was murdered. She looks like a librarian. It's just. It's a ploy, you know, it's just. It's the impression side of it. But I thought the same thing about Juliana. Are we not going to show the photos that show her cleavage or her bright lipstick? But, you know, they always try to.

Ashley Banfield (82:05)

Make them look eyelashes, blonde hair, voluptuous, tight clothes. I mean, she was. You're right. It's. It's Jodi Harris. It's Casey Anthony, too. They come in and there is a full transformation there. I have to say, it looked like there was probably a fair bit of weight gain as well, which I don't know if that's intentional or not. In Jodi Arias, there was none. Casey Anthony was no weight gain. But a long prison stay before. Or jail stay before the trial, but the full transformation. You don't get highlights in jail, like, that's for one. So that's going to change you. But everything else just looked so completely different.

Gigi McKelvey (82:40)

And I have seen weight gain in people who are awaiting trial. Look at Donna Adelson. You know, the food isn't good, so you're eating nothing but the commissary, which is all carbs, sugar, a lot of salt, all unhealthy, you know. And so I think it is one thing people can do is they stress eat, but they don't stress eat the right thing. And so they order honey buns and chips from the commissary. And, you know, after over a year of sitting in jail, it can catch up with you. And I know a lot of people have a contact who is doing life in prison, who in fact was the cellmate of Diane Downs. Another big famous case. Her first year in jail, she gained £80 just from commissary.

Ashley Banfield (83:24)

Eighty.

Gigi McKelvey (83:25)

£80.

Ashley Banfield (83:27)

Oh, my God. Well, let's. Let's look. Jail. I would feel differently because you still have hope. Right?

Gigi McKelvey (83:33)

Right.

Ashley Banfield (83:33)

But if you get the life, no parole, what. What's to be healthy for? It's. At this point, I've just got to find any joy I can in any honey bun I can get my hands on. Like, there's really. What's the point, you know, of keeping yourself fit and healthy for what there's.

Gigi McKelvey (83:48)

No, I mean, if you get life in prison, I mean, you're gonna come out in the body bag, so. Yeah, I'd totally be gorging on all the bad stuff, for sure.

Ashley Banfield (83:55)

Make it an xl.

Defense Attorney (83:56)

Yeah.

Ashley Banfield (83:59)

Well, maybe there would be one reason to stay fit and healthy, and that's to make sure you can get your dukes up and be nimble and quick on your feet and float like a butterfly, sting like a beef. But apart from that, I am a little surprised at how I see transformations in jail. Maybe they're not all Einstein's. You know, maybe this wasn't an Einstein maneuver on her behalf to be a transformational image in the courtroom. Maybe she just got heavy and didn't get the highlights because you don't get them, blonde hair's gonna grow out. And you don't get fake eyelashes, and you probably don't want to get any. What do they call it? Commissary makeup. There's a name for fake up. You take commissary things and you transform them into, you know, colors for your face. What's the point if you're going into court? And maybe her lawyer gave her some tips, but I'm not sure.

Gigi McKelvey (84:46)

Yeah, I think the reason they do that is just to look less intimidating to the jury. But there are a lot of tips that I've learned through a contact of mine who is serving life in prison in California. And they get very creative. They will curl their hair with tampons. They will use Kool Aid to make lip stain. They will mix up things for foundation, eyeshadow. Some of those things can be purchased through commissary. And I've even seen some prisons that allow hair color, which is ironic. I've always wondered how Laurie Daybell had this blonde hair every time we saw her that was curled, you know, in a professional manner. There are definitely tips and tricks that I have heard for days from my contact that will blow your mind, Ashley. They get very creative in there because they don't have the things we can go grab at the store. So they have to make their own. And they definitely can. Can do some magic. I mean, look, Lori Daybell's hair looked better than mine ever has. And she's a pokey, Right? She's a hairdresser. I said she wrapped them around the bars to get those big curls.

Ashley Banfield (85:49)

Toilet paper rolls a lot of times as well. Yeah, for the big curls. I remember. So, like, 30 years ago, I remember there was no makeup allowed. Like, there was nothing. And one of the things I learned Back then was that they would take a magazine and they would take water and a paintbrush and they would rub the water into the black ink of the magazine and that would be eyeliner. So that's how they could create black eyeliner. It was from the magazine ink, not newspaper, though, because the newspaper would absorb the water, the newsprint. But magazines would be glossy enough that the ink would come off. But in the subsequent decades, I've actually seen some jurisdictions that allow little bits of makeup, like they actually sell some kinds of makeup in the commissary and they don't have to be as creative. But other places they're still using the strawberry Kool Aid and the grape Kool Aid to do purple hair and red hair and streaks like that. But I mean, what's the harm in giving them makeup? What's the harm if you're going to give them anything else, if you're going to give them a magazine to read, give them some makeup to cares they got to pay for it.

Gigi McKelvey (86:56)

Yeah. And I think too, it probably, you know, it's a pleasure. So if you're bad, they can take that away. So it's a good incentive to behave while you're, while you're in prison. But, yeah, I've seen, I've covered commissary lists for a lot of the big cases I cover once they're sent to prison. And a lot of them do have foundation and makeup, so it's overpriced. But, you know, like, Juliana had these producers who are wanting to sell her story, you know, putting hundreds of dollars on her commissary account, which also may account for having that accessible to order what you want. There always are limits of how much you can buy. Either a dollar amount or if you're getting quarterly packs, which you have to order from somebody on the outside, you only get so many ounces in that box. But clearly she had enough money because before she flipped on Brendan, Brendan's mother was putting money on her books and also communicating with her family in Brazil for her. So it seems like the whole time she's been going here, she's had a fat account there for commissary. And that also gives her bargaining tools with other inmates as well.

Ashley Banfield (88:01)

So currency. Yep, we'll say this, and because so much what we do is victim centered, people probably aren't going to like to hear this, but I do feel it's worth bringing up women when they walk into a courtroom, if they've been inmates, if they're not given makeup, they come in At a disadvantage. It's no different than giving Luigi Magione a nice sweater and a, you know, button down to come into court so that you don't have a preconceived notion about him being guilty before he's found guilty. But they don't do the same thing for women. So I remember, and I want to bring up Cynthia Sommer again because she was a perfect example. She came into a courtroom and she's an innocent woman who was wrongly accused of murdering her husband. She came in and she took the sand and she had a black eye because she said she fell off. She fell off her bunk. I don't know if she fell off her bunk or if somebody punched her or whatever it was, but she had two tone hair that had half grown out and she looked like a gangster with a black eye and no makeup. And she wasn't like her hair wasn't clean either. It looked very kind of greasy. And so when I looked at her on the stand, I thought, this isn't fair. We're prejudging her the minute she stands up there. Because that's what we do to women to start with. We judge them right away on how they look. Swipe left, swipe right, pretty, not pretty. You're not going to listen to what they're. They're like or what they've done in their lives. And so I did feel, I made a judgment decades ago that I do think it's appropriate to give inmates makeup just so that they maintain status quo and we can judge them for what they really did as opposed to what we think think they look like they did.

Gigi McKelvey (89:38)

Yeah, I agree with that completely. And you know, some allow it and some don't, like you say. I mean, I've seen them come in looking very nice and you know, it is one of those things that's very subconscious. But that first impression or that first look, you know, whether we like to admit it or not, I think we all do it. And so I think it's more important when it's a jury and potentially the rest of your life's on the line. And you know, in that case where she ended up being innocent, you know, but. But yeah, I think there is some level of dignity that, that needs to be had while you're presumed innocent.

Ashley Banfield (90:13)

Just equality, I'm just saying equality, like men don't look any different. You know, a guy going into the pokey for a year, goes up on the stand, he's not gonna look any different. But a girl is going to be completely different and look kind of terrible. And so she'll be. They'll have that first gut impression of her, like, well, she sure looks like she's from the street. Or, well, she doesn't take care of herself or, boy, she looks like. In Cynthia Summers case, she looks like a gangster. And that's what's unfair, is that we're not bringing them in on the status quo, where they should be judged. Men, they don't have that same issue. That's the only reason I sort of like think. And again, I say this because I know. I know wrongly accused people, and I've seen the wrongly accused, and it is. They are victims, too. And so for their sake, I just want women to have the same shake that men do.

Gigi McKelvey (91:01)

Yeah, I agree 100%. I mean, innocent until proven guilty. So, you know, I mean, project that to. Not just dressing them down like librarians, but also, you know, give them a little dignity while they're going through their trial and not to potentially set off that first impression of, oh, you know, she looks rough around the edges. She did it. Yep, that's it. I mean, and it's a big thing. I mean, it is a. Your first impression is huge before you even hear the first bit of evidence. I believe that. So I agree with you 100% on that.

Ashley Banfield (91:31)

Yeah. Juries are capable of swiping left right away, that's for sure. Yeah. By the way, I've never swiped. So I don't know if it's left to right when you dismiss somebody, but I'm just going to say left. And I'm sorry, tell me in the comments if I'm right or wrong. But, Gigi, last. Last assessment here, and I hate to do the tea leaves and prognosticate and all the rest, but I do want to get your feeling of where you think this is going to go.

Gigi McKelvey (91:50)

I think this is going to be a very quick guilty. You know, what evidence we've seen so far perfectly matches Juliana's version of events, down to the phone call when it happened, you know, and the digital forensics, I do want to see. Yes, she was in that cul de sac. We know he was at McDonald's, but. But I think it's going to be a very quick guilty. It's not. There was nothing. Right. I mean, but there. I don't think we're going to find anything in Christine's browsing history, aside from what they did with her computer, that would ever indicate she was this type of person. She's tired. She's an icu nurse. They go through traumas of their own, taking care of patients who are doing poorly. They get attached to these families. I was in and out of ICU with my grandmother for, you know, three months. They become like family to their patients, and also they become like a unit, the staff. So I think what we're going to find is any. Anything that looks suspicious on her computer came from these two, allegedly. And she was just trying to get her rest and do her job and be mom.

Ashley Banfield (92:56)

There's also a start date to the planning, right? And a lot of the evidence is going to line up with the start date to the planning. And so if all this BDSM bullshit also lines up with the start date to the planning, it will be quite obvious. And then I'm just going to say this. No mother out there is going to plan this kind of tryst in her own master bedroom. Unless husband and nanny are on Mars for a week, not just off for the day doing something. Because that is just so incredibly risky and so unheard of. It's just. It's just off. It's not normal, once again, maybe, but undoubtedly.

Gigi McKelvey (93:38)

Right. And the other thing I forgot to mention, too, is Christine actually was scheduled to work that day. Juliana testified that Brendan convinced her to switch her days so that she would be home when Joseph Ryan came.

Ashley Banfield (93:52)

How convenient.

Gigi McKelvey (93:53)

Yeah.

Ashley Banfield (93:53)

Gigi McKelvey. Pretty lies and alibis. You are so good at your job, and you know how much I adore you. I hope you will come on and be early and often on this podcast.

Gigi McKelvey (94:01)

I would love to. Thank you, Ashley, and congratulations.

Ashley Banfield (94:04)

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. So I have links to Gigi's podcasts and her YouTube channel. They're in the description. I want to thank you all so much. I know this has been a long one. We chewed on a lot. And we are not done with this case yet. I pray.

Gigi McKelvey (94:19)

I pray, I pray.

Ashley Banfield (94:20)

I hope and pray and pray along with me. Because, you know, there's power in prayer, y', all, that Brandon Banfield's gonna take the stand. No relation. Can you imagine? Can you imagine just waiting and watching that one and just seeing his eyes and his twitches and everything else? Because if he is the liar that police say he is, I'm gonna enjoy every minute of watching him wind us all up. Because you and I know we can only be wound up so far. We're not dummies. Nobody's a dummy. And you know who I really hope are not dummies? The people who are going to sit in judgment of him. The jury, they see a lot more than we do, y'. All. We see through the TV lens, but the camera angle doesn't show everything. And the jury gets to see all angles. They get to see the body language we miss. They get to see what's happening outside the lens. They get to see the periphery, the reactions from the gallery. They get to see it all. And it is way more informative. So I can't wait to see what we can see from that stand. And again, I pray, I pray, I pray, I pray Brendan will take the stand. There's nothing better. Thank you so much for watching, everyone. Thank you for listening. I'm Ashley Banfield. And remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.