Ashley Banfield (0:00)

Foreign.

Steve Gonzalez (0:07)

I mean, all that stuff. Well, for one, we said give it to us first and they did. And you guys got it before we did. Just like you and I got the murders before we did.

Ashley Banfield (0:20)

Which stuff? Wait, which stuff? Because we got all the material after your three hour meeting, I think.

Steve Gonzalez (0:26)

Yeah, yeah, but the three hour meeting was just a question and answer.

Ashley Banfield (0:29)

You just have to talk to him.

Steve Gonzalez (0:31)

There was no documents handed over to us. How do you ask for something you don't know exists?

Ashley Banfield (0:39)

Hey, everybody, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is Drop Dead Serious. I have a bit of a weird episode for you today. If you're watching on YouTube, you're probably going to see me going through a lot of these documents. And if you're listening on the podcast, basically I am learning alongside you all the documents that have been dropped by the Moscow police, the FBI, and by the investigative bodies that looked into the murders at 1122 King Road two and a half years ago when four kids lost their lives to Brian Coburger, the maniacal murderer who has just been sentenced to four consecutive life terms in the state penitentiary in Idaho. So I just wanted to get a lot of this information out to you. This is going to be a little bit rough. It's not a super polished podcast, so I apologize for that. But, you know, bear with me as I, as I get going, going through a lot of this material. I think what's happened here as they start to release information after lifting the gag order is that we're not only going to have some questions answered, but I think we're going to have a lot more questions asked. I have to be honest with you. One of the biggest things for me was that they had to admit that they don't know the connection between Bryan Kohberger and these kids. I thought we would get it. I thought that their investigative product would show, oh, he stalked them or he was, you know, passed over at a party by them or somebody blocked him on Instagram or he was jealous of them, or he had a crush on one of them or he was targeting one of them. And no, none of that has proven to be fact. But this is really shocking because there just seems to be no connection that the police could make. They had to admit, as they begin to drop these documents after two and a half years of a gag order, which has left us all in the dark about their investigative work, their prosecutorial plans, whatever they were going to go to trial with, that we would learn over the course of three to four months, it's starting to Drib and drab out now. And it will drib and drab out for months, possibly up to four months as they go over every one of these 250 some odd motions that were filed under seal. And each one has to be looked at meticulously and redacted for personal information and names and dignity of the dead, etc. So, okay, the first dump of information kind of came out in an avalanche on the heels of the sentencing yesterday in which we heard just devastating material, right? We just heard devastating reaction from these families in their victims impact statements. And then afterwards, you know, the families, some of them came out onto the courthouse steps and talked about even more material. And then a press conference with police and prosecutors in which we learned they don't know. They don't know why he picked this house. They know he targeted the house. They know the house was a plan. And I think that's only because he was there dozens of times, you know, scoping it out, lurking in the shadows, driving around it, maybe even hanging out in the woods behind and watching these kids. But they don't know why. They don't know why he targeted the house. And even more troubling, they don't know who he targeted, if anybody. Many people had thought he targeted Maddie, many people thought he targeted Kaylee. And a lot of that came because of an online account called Papa Roger that had an icon that looked a lot like Coburger, that seemed to know a lot about the killings before any of the material became public. The information wasn't released publicly about a knife sheath being left behind. And yet Papa Roger knew, like just a couple weeks after the killings, he knew about where the car might have driven up beside the house where the killer may have gained access into the house. It turned out to be true. And maybe more troubling, Papa Roger disappeared on December 30, 2022, which was exactly the date that he was arrested. Coburger was arrested. So we all thought that Coburger certainly was likely Papa Roger. And the police said, no, we can't make that connection. We do not think that is true. I will give you this caveat, and I think a lot of you feel the same way I do. Brian Coburger was masterful at wiping his devices. The cops admitted it yesterday that he used sophisticated software to wipe his electronic footprint from a lot of his devices. And so maybe he did that. Maybe he yammered on about being Papa Roger and somehow before August, or rather December 30, his arrest, he wiped clean a lot of his devices from being Papa Roger. It's questionable though, right, Because I think he was enjoying this, this after effect. He was enjoying being secretive guy online who seemed to know more than anyone else. And so why would he think suddenly he was going to be arrested on the 30th unless, unless he thought that the. The heat was on. They had a white Elantra, they were looking for a white Elantra and suddenly he's getting the hell out of Pullman, Washington and driving all the way across the United States back to his parents house in Pennsylvania with his white Elantra. Maybe he thought the heat was getting a little too hot and started wiping his devices and wiped his Papa Roger. It, it's just a theory, it's no fact. But the police said we don't think he's Papa Roger. So all of those theories everyone had about who he was targeting and why he might have been targeting, none of it turned out to be true. Not yet anyway. And we still have a lot more material that's about to be released. So I'm going to fumble my way through a lot of these documents right now and sort of get you as much of the story as I can. As we learned from just like very fast reading, we got autopsy results which are just devastating. I'll tell you this. Kaylee was stabbed more than 30 times and Zanna was stabbed more than 50 times. It's worse than I thought. It's worse than all of us thought. He was in a frenzy in that house. He was in an absolute frenzy. And granted, maybe he was fighting people who were fighting for their lives and continued to stab, you know, in that frenzy. I don't know if he planned that kind of carnage, but it was absolutely unbelievable. We've got neighbor reports and something odd. They, they thought they heard something like a firework going off. One of the roommates, even Bethany, heard a firework going off that night right around 4 o' clock in the morning. So that's sort of fascinating information. Friends and roommates describe doors being left open well before the mur. Their doors at 1122 King Road mysteriously being open, some of them possibly being unlocked. The night of the murders, before the murders, strange men, maybe one following Kaylee out. We had heard she thought she had a stalker. We did hear the police, you know, cleared the man who said, I did. I followed her out, I wanted to ask her out, but I chickened out. He didn't turn out to be part of this. But something in these new documents did tell us that the kids themselves were worried about a man they thought they saw around the house, lurking in the woods behind the house out in front, and that Murphy, Kaylee's dog would run to those woods and wouldn't come back when called. And that was unusual behavior from Murphy. And they got creeped out. One thought they even saw a man back there in the woods and they came inside. So this all happening well before the murders, in the weeks before the murders is very, very telling and informative. That I would lay it on the line and bet my bottom dollar that that was Bryan Coburger out there in the woods behind the house watching them parked. And out there watching them, either watching them as they were outside enjoying their time with all their friends because they kind of all hung out behind the house in those couches or watching them through their windows because the back of the house looked right into Maddie's and Kaylee's third floor window. So we're learning a lot more about that as well. All right, so let me tell you about the responding officers and how they describe the crime scene. And I will give you a trigger warning. I will give you all the warnings in advance that I normally do. If you're squeamish, if you are upset by these things, now is your time to just turn the volume down and maybe move on. And I hate saying that because I love having you here, but this stuff is really uncomfortable to hear. What they said about Zanna Kernodle's room, the officer found blood smeared across items all over the room and the floor. There was cast off blood, better known as spatter. Right. Cast off blood was found on the walls and even above Zanna's body. Zanna was found on her back. She was wearing, presumably what she had gone to bed in. This sounds totally like a college kid going to bed. A long sleeve gray shirt and just her underwear. And it was all soaked in blood. Her face and her body were covered in dry blood because, remember, she died between 4 and 4:20 in the morning and the 911 call didn't come in till, you know, eight hours later. And so, yeah, a lot of that blood had had time to dry. The officers observed on Zanna what appeared to be a defensive set of knife wounds, including a deep gash between her thumb and her index finger on her left hand, almost as though she'd be grabbing at the knife and the knife would have come in between her thumb and index finger and, and, and gashed her. Then in Kaylee and Maddie's room, it was really Maddie's room, but Kaylee and Maddie were both sleeping in the bed in Maddie's room because Kaylee had moved out. She'd already moved out, she'd graduated, and she was in the process of packing that whole room up of hers. You know, she'd come back that weekend to show her roommates her new car. She was so excited about her, her new suv. And so understandably, she was sleeping in her roommate's bed because hers was probably all just packed up in a mattress, right? So in Maddie's room, where they found Kaylee and Maddie's dead bod covered in a blood soaked pink blanket, there was a large pool of blood near Kaylee's midsection. Madison was lying up against Kaylee. She had visible wounds on her forearm and on her hands. And she had a gash under her right eye that extended from the outside of her eye to her nose. Kaylee was described as, as unrecognizable. Her facial structure was extremely damaged. The third floor officer summarized this way. Both females appeared to be stabbed to death upon arriving on the scene. One victim's face was described as completely disfigured and stabbed multiple times. That's Kaylee. The officer couldn't even comprehend the injuries. He said he could not process what he was looking at. The comforter was soaked in blood and a pool of blood remained there. I will also say this with the other information we've learned from Steve Gonzalez, because he met with detectives for three hours before all these documents were dumped out publicly. Thank God. Thank God the parents got to, to talk with detectives before this all became public, you know, in the media. But Steve Gonzalez said Kaylee's nose was broken. Kaylee looked as though she'd been gagged because she had injuries on either side of her mouth, whether it was a hand or whether it was something else. And Steve and the police seemed to think, think that there was some other object, some other weapon that was used on Kaylee that they cannot figure out. They, they cannot determine what it was. Like, what did he have with him that he used, you know, on, on Kaylee? Yes, she'd been stabbed over 30 times, but there was some other blunt impact that, that she suffered. And they were. Interesting the way they said it in the press conference. They said they are only looking for a K bar knife as the murder weapon. But ask the families. And then when we talked to Shannon Gray, who is the attorney for the Gonzalez family, he said, I'm going to leave that for Steve to get more detailed about. But yes, there is another weapon and they're Confounded by it. Not sure why they wouldn't talk about it in the press conference that the police and the investigators. But. But they didn't. All right, let me tell you about what was found outside the home by the investigators. They said that they tracked footprints. Now, I don't know what they tracked the footprints in. Were these footprints in blood? Were these just footprints? I can't imagine how you would determine footprints in a heavily trafficked doorway, but maybe it was in blood and they just didn't say so. But the footprints were leading away from the rear slider door, out of the kitchen and circling a tree stump in the backyard and heading back towards the front of the house. I don't think those are of evidentiary value to this killing. Again, my theory only. But I think Bryan Coburger got the hell out of there and got to his car and got out because the timeline is very tight. You know, he's out of that house at 4:20 and he's seen, you know, already heading back into Pullman, Washington, taking that circuitous loop. Right. And I don't think he spent a lot of time messing around outside the house. I think he had just killed four people and got the hell out of there. And remember, he drove like a bat out of hell. That white Elantra was seen screaming out of there at 4:20 and was almost like he said, almost lost control of the car as he was pulling out of King and Queen Road. So my personal feeling is I don't think he was lurking around the house after these murders much. I think he realized what he'd done and needed to get out. Then they said they saw small handprints observed on a nearby window with a damaged screen on the ground. If you're looking at the back of the house, you can see the slider is on the left and there were some windows on the right. And they. You could see investigators dusting for prints during the investigation two and a half years ago. And you could see, I think one of the screens was down on the ground back then. That might be what they're referring to. It may have nothing to do with this. Small handprints may have been from previous tenants or kids visiting or just kids or whatever. But that's what they put in their investigative documents. They said that they saw smudged fingerprints on the slider glass door. Don't know if they're co burgers, but they didn't seem to say. We found Brian Coburger's prints. Don't forget he was wearing gloves. Right. But again, in your investigative documents, you put everything. They said they found a discarded black backpack located in the backyard. Again, we have not heard about anything regarding a black backpack that had anything connected to Coburger on it. Otherwise that would have been big, that would have been a smoking gun. So it might have been just some other students cast out black backpack, maybe one of their own from the house. We don't know. This stuff's interesting. This is jailhouse information because the prosecutors and the police wanted to know what fellow innocent inmates of Brian Coburger had to say about him. He had been held in custody without bail for two and a half years. So he had plenty of inmates. Right. They come in and out of those jails. Some of them come in for a night, some of them come in for a couple of weeks, some come in for a couple of months. They can't afford bail. But presumably over two and a half years and two jail facilities, the Layta County Jailhouse and the Ada County Jailhouse. When he was moved up to Boise, presumably he had a fair few fellow inmates that spent some time in the same facility as he did. So they, they interviewed some of them and they got some work product out of that. Let me share that with you. One inmate called Brian Coburger, and I quote the investigators, a fucking weirdo. That's what he said. By the way, if you can hear somebody gasping off camera, it's my mom. She's here with me. She's like watching the podcast and so every so often you can hear her gasp, mom, you have to keep it a little quiet. It's okay, it's fine. It's okay. She said, oh, my stars. It's okay. You're totally allowed. And you might hear her Manhattan being put down on the table beside her too, because I poured her a stiff one for this one. Okay. The inmate said this to the investigators. If it weren't for legal consequences, I would have assaulted him. I think they use different words, but the investigator wrote that the inmate said if it weren't for what might happen to him, he would have beat him up. When asked if he thought Coburger was guilty of those quadruple murders, the inmate said, quote, his eyes tell a story. I'm gonna stop right here. Look at these pictures. This is Bryan Kohberger. We have all commented about the awful ghost, like, creepy, like stare that Bryan Kohberger has. Look, as a long time reporter and crime reporter, I'm going to just weigh in a little here. Yeah. Once you know, he's a quadruple Maniacal, murderer, butcher. Yeah, his stare is creepy and horrifying and hollow and add every adjective you want. Now take him out of that. And he's the guy that rides the bus with you and he's totally normal. You might just say, yeah, it's not very handsome, but nice guy, you don't know. But you can ascribe a lot of descriptive details to someone once you know what they're capable of and who they are. And so I've always had a tough time. I thought they had him dead to rights when they got him because of the connections, because of the DNA on the knife sheath. I mean, please, you have zero connection to these kids. And your DNA is on the knife sheath that was left behind at the murder scene. Game over. It's you. Is there a chance somebody was trying to frame you? Okay, sure. Pretty. Again, reasonable, not reasonable. Is that reasonable doubt? No, it's not reasonable doubt. Especially when you connect his Elantra, his white car seen in the neighborhood going round and round that night, and when you see his cell phone pinging for months and months beforehand making over a dozen visits to scope out this house and these kids. So, yeah, no longer reasonable that somebody else's DNA was placed on the knife sheath and they planted it there and killed those kids. And, you know, pointed. No, not reasonable. So I thought they had him dead to rights. And so I looked at his gaze as the gaze of a freak. But you always have to take yourself out of that if you're going to be really fair and unbiased when you're assessing someone who's innocent until proven guilty. I know a lot of people who have weird stares and they're normal people. But now I look at his stare and I know he's just not one of the flock. He's not. Okay, I'm off my soapbox. So. Another inmate was also interviewed by investigators. That person apparently was housed in the cell next to Coburger between August and September of 2024. Couple months. Okay. It's enough to sort of get to know somebody who's your next door cellmate. This is how he described him to the police. He said he was the smartest person he'd met in jail, but also obsessive. I'm just gonna say something here. Jails are not filled with a lot of smart people. You know, it's not often you get a mastermind of, you know, criminology with a, you know, working on a PhD in a jail cell. So, yeah, okay, King of the fools isn't that big A deal. So, yeah, I guess he was the smartest one in there. He's not the smartest one in my business, that's for sure. I'm gonna tell you right now, the way those families spoke to him in their victim' statements yesterday, saying, you're an idiot. We had you minutes after you left that crime. Ph.D. you're a joke. That's what Steve Gonzalez said to him in that courtroom. Steve Gonzalez was so right. Brian Coburger thought he was smarter than everybody else. He acted smarter than everybody else. And, yeah, you're smarter than a couple of inmates at the Leyta Jail. There's. There's rarely more than a dozen of them there. So good for you, you know, small pool, silly, dumb fish. But that's what this inmate said. Smartest guy he'd seen in jail. And then he said this about him. He was obsessive. He said he washed his hands dozens of times per day and that he took 45 minutes to an hour in the shower each time. This one's creepy. He was awake all night. Does that give you the shivers? This inmate is awake all night in the county jail, and he napped just a little bit during the day. So clearly he's got something going on upstairs that won't let him sleep much. Wake all night, short naps during the day. That's it. The inmate said he could hear him moving around constantly. All right, now back to the scene. This is difficult because we've heard. We've heard some of the accounts of the kids that came to the house that morning and made the horrific discovery of Zanna and Ethan dead, but not Maddie and Kaylee on the third floor, dead. So here is what a roommate's friend identified in the documents only as H. But I think that we can surmise at this point that it is Hunter Johnson, and that's Ethan's best friend and fraternity buddy. Because Hunter Johnson has already said that he was the one that went in and he made the discovery and got the girls out of there, saying, back out. Everybody out, out, out, out, out. Call the police. Before they saw what he saw. So, H. Presumably, Hunter Johnson said he walked straight up the stairs and into Zanna's room. So the door was open. Door was partially open, he says. And when he opened it, he saw Zanna and Ethan. Okay. At first he thought the room was just messy. This makes sense, right? College kids, morning after, he thinks that. That the room is messy and that they've had a big bender the night before. You know, that makes sense. Actually, I get it then he didn't realize that the blood was dried. After standing there for a few moments, he said he began to understand what he was looking at. He said two others, B and D, I think we all know that's Bethany and Dylan, right? Two roommates were crying uncontrollably. He told them to get out of the house and call the police. I've been trying to put myself in their shoes. They. They don't know that these kids are stabbed to death. But Bethany and Dylan are crying uncontrollably because maybe they just think they're passed out and OD'd. That's the worst thing you could imagine had happened in the house the night before. Not that some Charles Manson like killer had come through and slashed all your roommates to death. That is does not enter the picture. Right? That's not what you're thinking as a college kid. You're thinking, we had a big fun night out last night. Everybody was drunk. When we got home, oh my God, these two aren't waking up and one of them's on the floor. Maybe they've OD'd and they're now Bethan, Bethany and Dylan are freaking out that they might be OD'd, but. But maybe not even dead. Just. It's awful to think that they've OD'd. Okay, that's my thought again. Just my thoughts. So let me take you to the prior concerns that the kids had about a stalker. There's somebody identified here as J, a friend of the kids named J, the letter J. And I'm wondering if it's Josie Lotteran who's been interviewed in documentaries as being very knowledgeable about everything that happened with these kids. I'm not sure if it's Josie or not, so I will just refer to this person as Jay. Jay shared with the police that Kaylee once saw a dark figure watching her from the tree line while walking her dog Murphy outside of 1122 King Road. This happened one month before the murders. My God. Jay said that the roommates had previously made light hearted jokes about Kaylee having a stalker, but deep down they were actually nervous because they thought it might be real. Jay said there were no known social media issues. This is fascinating. We thought that the investigation would prove. Oh my God. They were being stalked by this guy on social media. They had to block him. You know, we thought that might happen. Nope. Apparently no known social media issues at all. Did he follow them? Did he watch them on social media? Maybe. We don't know because he's he scrubbed all his electronics. You know, he wiped everything clean. So we don't know. And the investigators said they don't know either. Jay also added that the front door of 1122 King Road had locking issues. Sometimes it could be opened without the code. Jay was not sure if the sliding glass door in the back was regularly locked. Well, if they're anything like me as a college kid, we didn't lock our door. We just didn't. And in this town, it's Moscow, Idaho, people have always said that this is a, you know, this was a town where there wasn't any crime, just wasn't. Jay also told the police that she knew the code to the front door. As a friend of the kids, she was able to get herself in and out of the front door. And some of the kids had said they don't know how many people knew the code to the front door because lots of the friends came in and out of the house, many of them through the front door. And some of them would come through the sliding glass door as well. Okay, now I want to get into some uncomfortable stuff, medical examiner stuff. So again, if you're squeamish. Warning, fair warning. Medical examiner confirmed that the that the weapon that they assumed was used a ka bar knife because they found the sheath. The medical examiner confirmed that those wep that weapon matched the injuries that that she saw. On June 28, team of detectives met with the Spokane county medical examiner. They call her Dr. S. My assumption is that Dr. S is Dr. Veena Singh, because Dr. Veena Singh in June of 2023 was the Spokane county medical examiner. She was in April of 2021. So I'm just gonna guess that that's who Dr. S is. But the meeting with her was to try to compare the injuries from the victims with the K bar knife because they got the sheath. So they knew they had a pretty good idea the sheath matched a ka bar knife and that the ka bar knife was likely used as the weapon. Dr. S. Dr. Singh reviewed selected photographs from all four of the victims. The shape and size of the ka bar knife was consistent with the injuries. Some of the wounds had two points. That's consistent with a double edged tip of the knife. I'm a little confused by that. But others had a point on one side and a square edge on the other, matching the ka bar knife's single edge blade profile. Some of the injuries had consistency with the metal guard at the base of the K bar. Okay. From my background in criminal justice and reporting, I know what that Means sometimes when a killer plunges a knife into someone, they go all the way in to the end where the base hits the handle and that leaves an injury. It's horrifying to think of it, but it sounds like that's what happened. Some of the injuries had marks consistent with the metal guard at the base of the Ka Bar Knife. Dr. S. Dr. Singh emphasized that skin stretching, body movement, knife angle and depth all affect how wounds present. Makes sense to me. The force used was described as significant, indicating power behind the attack. So strength, frenzy, anger, aggression, power. That's what he did. That's what he did to these kids. Now, let me give you Dylan Mortensen's account. They refer to her in the documents as dm. We know the only DM in the house was Dylan Mortensen. So Dylan said she woke up about 4am she heard Kaylee's voice and Murphy the dog barking. She believed that Kaylee was dancing upstairs with the dog and she recognized her voice clearly. DM said she heard Kaylee go upstairs and say, there's someone here. So this is confusing to me because at first she hears Kaylee dancing upstairs, but she said she heard Kaylee go upstairs and say, there's someone here. Kaylee's voice sounded scared. Dylan says to investigators. Dylan said she thought that she heard Kaylee run back down the stairs. This could have been the killer after he'd killed the girls upstairs. Running back down the stairs. And maybe Dylan thinks she's hearing Kaylee running down the stairs. She opened her bedroom door after calling out to Kaylee, but closed it again out of fear. Again. Well, you know, we're young girls, a little like, skeeved out or freaked out, but you're certainly not thinking maniacal killers in the house. You're just thinking like, I'm spooked, you know, ghost. You know, that's what you're thinking. And everybody'd been drinking. When she reopened the door, she heard someone crying in the bathroom. Okay, she thought it was Kaylee, but possibly Zanna. All I can tell you about bathrooms is that there is a bathroom up the stairs, around the corner, and then kind of straight. So the. If she thinks she's hearing the crying in the bathroom on the third floor. I don't think so because why would Zanna be up in that bathroom? Maybe instead she thinks she can hear crying out her door to the right. Then take a left down the hallway and there's a bathroom outside of Zanna's bedroom door. It would make a little more sense if she Thought Kaylee ran down the stairs. She might have been crying in the bathroom on the second floor. Or maybe it was Zanna in the bathroom on the second floor. But that's my thinking about where she might have heard the crying in the bathroom. But she thinks she. She hears, you know, crying in, in the bathroom and she thinks it might be Kaylee, maybe Zanna. But then she hears a male voice say, it's okay, I'm gonna help you. She said the tone wasn't nice. That's the first time we'd heard that, right? It's okay, I'm gonna help you. Doesn't. It's just odd to think what does that mean when it doesn't sound nice? And she said it was a voice she'd never heard before. So she knows there's a stranger in the house, but she doesn't know if it's a friend of one of the roommates or maybe having a fight with one of the roommates. So then she sees the suspect, okay? She opens her door again and she sees, quote, the guy standing right there. That's the quote. She described him as 5 10, slightly taller, athletic build, wearing all black mask covering the mouth, lower face exposing the nose and forehead. She could not recognize the man, but knew instantly something was wrong. DM Dylan said that she was in and out of it mentally that night. It's estimated about 20 minutes between hearing Kaylee's voice and seeing that suspect. But she wasn't completely sure of the timeline. She locked her door to her bedroom and eventually she went to bed thinking everybody had gone to sleep because everything went quiet. What Dylan did after seeing the suspect. This is next in the. In the documents of the investigators. As soon as the suspect left the house, Dylan said she immediately called her roommate downstairs. Bethany Funk. It's B, you know, but we know B is Bethany. Bethany told her that she had heard something that sounded like a firework going off. That's the first time we've ever heard this, a firework going off. And, and Dylan said that she was still groggy and thought that everybody had gone to sleep, but she locked her door and she didn't call. 911 that night. She woke up at about 11am to 12pm somewhere in the 11 to 12 hour the next late morning and tried to call her roommates, but nobody answered the phones. Right when Hunter arrived at the house, Dylan said they all agreed to call law enforcement immediately. This is even before they found dead bodies they're starting to put together. There was a creepy guy in the house last night and I was skeeved out. So I locked my door and went to bed. But now nobody's answering their phones and I'm too scared to go upstairs. I don't know what's going on. I'm scared. That's my again, these are my thoughts. But they do they call the police. And that's when Hunter walked upstairs to take a look and saw what he saw and told the girls get out. Get out. Get out. You don't get out. Get out. Now here are the prior incidents concerning stalker and strange activity. Dylan and others recalled multiple creepy incidents involving Kaylee. But a month before the murders, Kaylee again saw the shadowy figure near the tree line while walking her dog Murphy. Dylan said she heard Murphy barking a lot about 4 o' clock in the morning on the night of the murders. Right, we know that, but we heard that. Dylan said she heard Murphy barking a lot both outside and inside. That's interesting. Dylan said Kaylee had talked about being followed before. There was also an incident two to three weeks prior to the murders where they found the sliding glass door in the kitchen open at the back of the house. Murphy was missing and they had to go look for him. The dog really interesting. So clearly they found Murphy but the doubt the door was open. Murphy's gone. They got to go out looking for him. More on Murphy's behavior here. There were multiple witnesses who noticed something odd about Murphy's behavior. A witness named K said that Murphy ran behind the house into the bushes and would not return when called, which was not normal for Murphy. K said this happened more than once and that they would eventually just go inside and shut the door, obviously thinking there was something weird out there. E might be Emily Elant. I'm not sure. E also remembered this one incident during a Halloween party where Murphy did the same thing. They heard footsteps or rustling in the woods behind the house and they decided to go inside. On another occasion, Murphy disappeared again and they later found the rear slide sliding door open. Emily? I'm guessing Emily. It says E but I'm just going to guess. Emily said that multiple friends came and went freely at 1122 King Road and that it wasn't uncommon for outsiders to walk in when no one was home. Meaning friends coming over walking in checking it out. Hey guys, you home? You home? Ah, they're not here. Let's go. That's not unusual for this house apparently. And not unusual for an off campus house either. Now let me take you to the the activity the night of the murders from the bar because Kaylee and Maddie had come from the corner club and they had bar tabs. So there's bar tab information. At 12:22am Kaylee paid her bar tab using a credit card. And on the tab was nine well vodkas and two ad juice meaning mix. And at 1:31am a male referred to as S paid his own bar tab. He'd been seen earlier on the grub truck video with Kaylee and Madison. That interaction appeared friendly and consensual. His tab included five canned or bottled drinks and two kamikazes. That's all it says about that. A neighbor reports the dog barking around the time of the murders. A male neighbor told investigators that he woke up multiple times Saturday night and into Sunday morning. That's the times of the murders. At 4:17am the murders still would have been happening at this point. He checked the clock and said about five minutes later he heard a dog barking outside. Wow. The sound came from the direction of 1122 King Road. We don't think that Murphy is outside at 4:20 in the morning. What we do know is that maybe Kaylee's room had a window open and the dog we, they know they found the dog in Kaylee's room with the door closed. So the killer Coburger probably put the dog in there, shut the door and the dog was barking and maybe the window was open and maybe that's what the neighbors heard. I'd be surprised if the window was open because it's, it's November in Idaho, it's cold, I don't know. But they heard a dog barking what they thought sounded outside. He drifted in and out of sleep but he still heard the dog barking at 5am he emphasized that he had never heard Murphy barking in the middle of the night before even though he had lived there since January. So now Coburger's arrest. This is creepy stuff. Remember when he was arrested in Pennsylvania at his parents house? The interrogations began then. Right. The interviews began then. During his post arrest interview in Pennsylvania, Coburger initially engaged in small talk with the Idaho investigators. But as soon as they started asking about the murders in Idaho. Right. Homicides that they're investigating in Idaho, he shuts down, won't talk to them anymore. Coburger said that he respected law enforcement. Apparently he told them, he told the cops who were interviewing them that he respected law enforcement. Of course you do, you loser. You tried to get a job with the cops and they wouldn't hire you because you were too much of a freak. Again, I'M on my soapbox here. But look at him trying to be big man. I respect law enforcement. Go to hell. He said, quote, coburger told the cops, quote, it is a constitutional right to speak to an attorney. Smart ass thinks he's smart. All you have to do is say, I invoke my fifth or, I want a lawyer. That's all you need to say. You don't have to say the flowery language that he was using. You just need to say, I want my lawyer. And after that, that anytime they ask you questions, they can't use it against you. If you've already invoked your right to have a lawyer by asking for your lawyer, the investigation stops. But if you keep talking, if you keep telling them stuff voluntarily after you've been told you have the right to your attorney, that's on you. So then he did open up. Apparently, he did keep talking to them about nature and religion. God hates you. I'm sorry if you're religious out there and you're angry that I said that. I just feel like any God out there would hate someone like this who could do this to four kids. He talked about a road trip that he took with his dad, admiring the scenery. He said he was raised a Christian, not a good one, but that he'd always been a skeptic, except when confronted with the beauty of the natural world. Clearly, he can compartmentalize life because the natural world doesn't accept him. He's not part of it. He described the outdoors as a reflection of a higher power and spiritual beauty. I wonder what higher power he thought was looking over him when he was plunging a knife well over a hundred times into four innocent kids who were sleeping. I wonder what higher power he was, you know, thinking about or what higher power he had in his life at that point. There were text messages that went back and forth between some Washington State University professors. This is interesting stuff because they had their. They had their concerns about Bryan Coburger. They already had him marked as a, as a problem. And here is what one professor wrote to another professor, quote, we need to do an intervention with Kohberger. She's going to try to gather some information, but apparently he has offended several of our female students. Students, end quote. I will say this about the investigators looking into the grub truck early on, of course, the grub truck was a big part of the investigation because there were people who were around Kaylee and Madison just hours before they ended up dead. And so they looked into the grub truck pretty carefully. A friend with the Initial. P told investigators that she saw Kaylee and Madison at the grub truck just hours before the murders. She said both girls were happy and laughing and in good spirits. P heard after the fact that someone at the corner club had been acting creepy towards Maddie. That individual allegedly was kicked out of the bar. P did not know of any other men that Kaylee was with that night, but recalled that Kaylee had an ex boyfriend who went to University of Idaho, but that they were on good terms. P also confirmed Maddie had a boyfriend who had graduated from the University of Idaho, but but did not know his name. She was not aware of anybody other than Ethan and Zanna, who were hanging out that night. The security concerns at 1122 King Road. A source told police that Kaylee would often call him if she felt unsafe, especially when walking home alone. He said there were people coming in and out of the house all the time. He added, there's no initial here, but I'm almost wondering if it's Jack Decur, her ex boyfriend, who she was very friendly with and she called a lot. I don't know if it is or not, but. So this, this person added that more people knew the code to that front door than they should have. Interesting. He wasn't sure if the rear sliding glass door was regularly locked. Gonna go into some autopsy results. This is very graphic. It's medical and it's graphic. For Ethan Chapin, the fatal stab wound was the stab under his left clavicle. The injury severed the subclavian vein and the slub subclavian artery and the jugular vein. Obviously, Coburger knew what he was doing. He knew how to incapacitate these kids quickly. They all have the same kind of injury. He sustained only sharp force injuries, no other blunt force injuries, no other murder weapon. So. So as appears in the autopsy for Zanna Kernodle, her fatal injuries were one laceration to her right lung, two lacerations to her heart. Over 50 stab wounds, most of them defensive. God, she just fought like hell. She also sustained only sharp force injuries, no blunt force injuries. Madison Mogan. Fatal injuries were left lung laceration and liver laceration. And Madison Maddie sustained only sharp force injuries, no blunt force injuries. Kaylee Gonzalez, her fatal injuries again, left lung laceration. Okay, which is interesting. Zanna has a laceration to her right lung, but she's fighting, don't forget. But Maddie and Kaylee both have left lung. And you see with, with Ethan, left clavicle. So he's going after the left, right, near the right, near the heart. So left lung Laceration for Kaylee, liver laceration, two subdural bleeds, brain trauma. Wow, that means that she had two subdural bleeds with brain trauma. She was bashed in the head. Stab wounds behind the clavicle, severed subclavian vein and artery. She sustained 20 plus stab wounds. Except for that, the police said 30 plus, and her dad, Steve Gonzalez, said 30 plus. So maybe this is a mistake. I don't know. The medical examiner found evidence of sharp force, blunt force and asphyxial injuries on Kaylee. Okay, so all I can say here is that I think maybe Kaylee was the second to be killed. Maybe he killed Maddie first. And as she was incapacitated, Kaylee's fighting because Kaylee has awakened. As he's killing Maddie, she's right beside. And now Kaylee's fighting him. And so he is fighting and punching and hurting her and maybe trying to asphyxiate her, maybe with his hand over her mouth and stretching it. Maybe that's where those injuries are. Like she was gagged. Or maybe he had his hand over her mouth because she's screaming. We heard. We heard that she was making a lot of noise. Dylan thought she was, you know, screaming and yelling at the dog and dancing. But these are. These are fighting for your life noises. And maybe she's able to move her mouth so much that it gets above his hand and that's where the. The gagging comes from, that the. The force that he's using. It's all I can imagine as to why these injuries. Here's something interesting. Another set of documents was a civilian tip that came in business casual man. A man dressed in business casual walking along the highway on the day of the murders. That's November 13, 2022. A tipster named T came forward after encouragement from her friends. She spoke with the police about a man that she saw on the afternoon of the murders. Huh. She said that she and her husband were leaving the Costco in Clarkston, Washington between 2 and 2:30pm and they were Dr. North across Red Wolf Bridge. As they turned eastbound onto the highway, T said she saw a man walking alone on the grassy strip between the river and the highway. Interesting. River and the highway. What stood out? The area was remote. It was not a place where people would typically walk, which made the sighting feel strange to her. The man appeared to notice her watching him, looked up, then briefly looked down and avoided eye contact. After seeing extensive news coverage of Coburger, the tipster said the man resembled Coburger Burger. She clarified she wasn't 100 sure, but said that his demeanor and his appearance matched. She specifically noted his clothing was nice and agreed with the officer's description as business casual. Here's some information about Kaylee possibly being followed. Multiple incidents reported by friends. A witness described as Jay told investigators she had heard from others that Kaylee once saw a strange man behind the house while taking Murphy, her dog, out to pee. We've already heard a couple of reports of this earlier. Right, Right. Jay also said she heard about a separate incident. A man allegedly followed Kaylee around inside the Winco grocery store. He then followed her out of the store, and Kaylee believed he tried to get into her car. Kaylee believed he tried to get into her car. Interesting. Jay wasn't sure who told her, but said that Bethany or Dylan could confirm the details. Detectives follow up on the alleged stalker with a tip. Actually, that came from a friend. On November 15th in 2022, police detective received a voicemail from someone claiming to have info about Kaylee Gonzalves having a stalker. When the detective returned the call, he said the woman had lunch with Kaylee around September 11, along with several friends. During that lunch, Kaylee may have mentioned a stalker. She couldn't remember exactly, but thought that Kaylee said she'd received something strange in the mail. Another friend at the lunch thought Kaylee had gotten a weird Facebook message. The exact details were unclear, but multiple people recalled Caylee referencing a stalker around that time. Again, these are all investigative notes. They may have gone nowhere. They may have gone somewhere. They may have had something to do with Coburger. They may have not. It's just the early investigative product. Dylan Mortensen, direct quote to officers. Dylan said approximately 4am she heard Kaylee scream. Caylee shouted, there was somebody in the house. House. Dylan said she could hear Kaylee run down the stairs from the third floor to the second floor and into the northwest bedroom. This is where I'm starting to think this is how after multiple interviews of Dylan. Right. She's adding details as she's remembering in multiple different interviews. This may be where. Huh? This may be where Zanna has encountered Bryan Coburger and is running to the northwest bedroom. And it's actually Zanna that's running. And maybe Dylan thinks it's Kaylee because there are these footsteps coming down the stairs. Dylan says she locks herself in her room and continues to hear a commotion. Then Dylan says the struggle stopped. Heard the male voice say, you're gonna be fine. I'm going to help you. The voice is unfamiliar, but Sounded intentional and unsettling. This is another interview where she's giving these notes and an officer is taking these notes. Notes. After a few minutes, Dylan says she peeked out the bedroom and saw a male figure leaving. He was tall, six feet, slim build, black ski mask. Exited through the second floor patio door. That's the kitchen slider. The same patio door was found open when the police arrived. So he walked out the door and didn't close it. Bethany gives a timeline for the phone calls after that sound and flash. Right. This is the second report of the of the fireworks sound. Bea, whose bedroom was on the first floor of the basement, said she woke up to the sound she described as a firecracker and saw a brief flash. She thought it was a prank at first. Phone call logs confirm a rapid series of outgoing calls. 4:21am to Zanna, 4:22 to Ethan. 4:22 to Madison. 4:30 to Maddie. Again, 4:31 to Kaylee. Not one of them is answered. After calling, Bethany goes back to sleep. Doesn't wake again until 11:56am when 911 was called. This is from the notes again that the officers taking from the investigation with Dylan and Bethany. Neighbor sees the front door wide open. The morning after the murders on Sunday, 9am to 10am A neighbor walking his dog notices something strange. The front door of 1122 King Road is wide open. It faced campus on the north side of the building. The neighbor assumed it was left open by someone who had been drinking as the house was known to be a party house. This is so confounding to me because we know the Coburger came in and out through the slider. Slithered, as the judge said, I love that. Slithered like a snake into the back door. So why is the front door open? Did the kids come in through the front door and leave it open? Happen? Does it have nothing to do with any of this? Does it have something to do with it? It's kind of confusing. Back to Washington state. A teaching assistant tells the police that Coburger lied and had suspicious injuries. This is fascinating. A TA referred to as L described Coburger as dishonest. Frequently like to clap late to class. Coburger tells L in late December that he was catching a flight back to Pennsylvania. And later Elle finds out that Coburger had already been in Pennsylvania and had driven back with his dad. So now Elle knows you're just a liar. When you told me in late December that you were catching a flight, you'd already been there for a while because you know you made the news, pal. Elle also said to the police that Elle noticed injuries on Brian Coburger's face and hands on two separate occasions in October and in November of 2022. Oh, my God. Injuries to his face and hands in October. What had he done in October? What or who had he had interaction with in October to have injuries on his face and hands? And now we know in November, he was in a pitched fight with four people. Pitched fight with at least two of them. Pitched fight with at least Kaylee and Zanna, who fought like hell. He had to stab Zanna 50 times. He stabbed Kaylee at least 30. Right? Yeah. You probably got some injuries on your hands and on your face. One injury, according to. L was a large scratch on his face, described as possibly caused by fingernails. L also saw knuckle wounds and asked him what happened, and Coburger said he'd been in a car accident. Horseshit, right? Total horseshit. There's no car accident anywhere. This TA also recalled that Coburger liked to discuss topics like criminal decision making and burglary, like crimes. Here's some cell phone data, information from investigators. Coburger was near 1122 King Road at least 12 times before the murders. They pulled historical AT&T records from his phone. Between June and the killings, his phone pinged near the crime scene at least 12 times. All but one of those pings occurred in the late evening or early morning hours. Some of this we already know, but some of it is new to us. Lindsay, Steve Gonzalez is calling me right now. I'm gonna grab it. Hi, Steve.