Ohio Murder Mystery Turns More Disturbing as Crime Scene Clues Surface | Spencer & Monique Tepe

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Drop Dead Serious with Ashleigh Banfield
Episode: Ohio Murder Mystery Turns More Disturbing as Crime Scene Clues Surface | Spencer & Monique Tepe
Date: January 24, 2026

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Overview

This episode, hosted by veteran crime reporter Ashleigh Banfield, delves into the ongoing investigation of the murders of Spencer and Monique Tepe in Columbus, Ohio. The allegedly double homicide—where the couple was shot while their children slept upstairs—has shocked the nation. Banfield discusses emerging details from the initial crime scene, forensic perspectives on intimate partner homicide, and the suspect's psychology with forensic criminologist Dr. Laura Petler.

The focus is both on the prosecution’s case (including the recent arraignment of Dr. Michael McKee, Monique's ex-husband and a vascular surgeon), and on the crucial role of crime scene analysis in unraveling what happened, why, and what it reveals about the perpetrator.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Legal Latest: Arraignment and Charges

• Arraignment Details:

  • Dr. Michael McKee appeared via video for arraignment on five counts (four of aggravated murder, one aggravated burglary); not guilty pleas entered ([01:07]–[05:12]).
  • Four counts of aggravated murder diversify the case:
    • Use of a firearm with a silencer and premeditation.
    • Felony murder via burglary ("insurance" if the jury sees the scenario differently).
  • Defense attorney Diane Manashi, noted for high-profile acquittals, is representing McKee.

• Banfield’s Take:

  • "They've got basically an insurance policy. If the jury doesn't agree it was premeditated, well, you could always go to the fact that know there was a burglary." ([01:53])

First Responder Evidence: The 911 Call

• The Call’s Raw Impact:
  • A friend discovering Spencer Tepe’s body during a wellness check, breathless and traumatized ([05:44]).
  • Key details: blood, body "off his bed, in his blood," unable to approach or confirm more.
  • Banfield underlines its evidentiary importance: "It captures something very important—the moment before the investigation actually begins" ([07:06]).

Forensic Analysis: Expert Interview with Dr. Laura Petler

The Victims, Scene, and Sequence

• Dr. Petler’s Methodology:

  • Begins with 911 call observations—first pristine view of the scene.
  • Priority on rigorous documentation, expectation of needing advanced bloodstain and shooting reconstruction.
  • Early and thorough victimology leads to understanding the crime scene and later, the "suspectology" ([13:28]).

• What the Evidence Can Reveal:

  • Crime scene tells a story: physical positions, sequence of deaths, possible torture, and behaviors.
  • Parallels with classic domestic/intimate partner homicides; focus on power, control, and anger ([16:38]).

• Quote:

  “Objective science makes sure that you investigate every single possible way you can think of that it could possibly happen.” —Dr. Laura Petler ([14:57])

The Psychology of the Crime

• Domestic Violence Context:

  • Petler classifies the case as intimate partner homicide rooted in “conflict resolution” for the perpetrator ([19:12]).
  • The trigger is often long-standing resentment or a recent provocation, culminating in violence.

• Murder as Resolution:

  “In this particular type of homicide, there’s always a trigger... and in this case, it culminated in pulling a trigger and shooting two people in their home.” —Dr. Laura Petler ([16:38])

• The ‘Benefit’:

  • Offender’s satisfaction and power over the victims.
  • Not about prolonged interaction—firearm choice provides distance and “keeps it clean.”

Reconstruction and Scene Analysis

• Technical Reconstruction:

  • Petler describes using systems (her own Kaleidoscope method) with forensic mannequins and lasers to reconstruct events, assess shooter/victim positions, and bloodspatter ([22:27]).
  • Rock-solid documentation needed to recreate scene for court and investigation.

• Debate: Methodical or Chaotic?

  • Banfield and Petler speculate on whether there was more psychological torment (e.g., forcing one to see the other die) or a swift execution. Petler leans towards a quick, rage-fueled ambush, not a prolonged event ([30:27]).

  “I imagine an offender walking in there and shooting them probably while they…” —Dr. Laura Petler ([30:27])

  • Multiple shots to Spencer suggest he may have struggled or been the primary threat ([35:21]).
  • Physical movement after being shot is feasible; anecdotal parallels with other cases.

The Children & Additional Observations

• Children Left Alive:

  • The killer deliberately spared the children, isolating targets, showing anger wasn’t directed at them ([43:02]).
  • Petler suggests it's “very, very good” they weren’t targeted, but their endangerment may be considered an aggravating factor ([45:13]).

  “He separated the targets from innocent people. In his mind, you know, he didn’t see the children as being the targets. He wasn’t angry with the children.” —Dr. Laura Petler ([43:02])

• Entry to the Home:

  • Likely simple—possibly by utilizing a door code or inside knowledge, not an elaborate or dramatic break-in ([45:55]).
  • Banfield theorizes use of family birthdays for code ([47:58]); Petler agrees, “I think it is absolutely a very simple thing that… I don’t think it’s going to be really complicated.” ([48:24])

• The Suspect’s Medical Background:

  • The suspect’s anatomical knowledge and comfort with blood are noted; as a vascular surgeon, he would know precisely how to inflict fatal wounds ([50:27]).

  “He also understands anatomy and where to shoot somebody... I mean, a surgeon especially is going to understand blood pressure.” —Dr. Laura Petler ([50:27])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the 911 Call:

  “That phone call is really raw, and it captures something very important—the moment before the investigation actually begins.”
  —Ashleigh Banfield ([07:06])

• On the Offender’s Mindset:

  “This is conflict resolution for the offender... What is the conflict? So we always ask three questions when we’re talking about staged murder. And this is not staged, but... who is in conflict with the victim, and what is that conflict?”
  —Dr. Laura Petler ([19:12])

• On Forensic Reconstruction:

  “We use something that I invented called the Kaleidoscope crime scene reconstruction system... we would be using lasers.... show a jury, you know, exactly—not... down to the millimeter—but an area, a range of where that shooter was standing or sitting... and then per shot you can reconstruct that to get a glimpse of the event.”
  —Dr. Laura Petler ([22:27])

• On Power and Control:

  “There was a lot of benefit to this death. It gave him power and control.... It’s a very intimate thing to take someone’s life, and they kind of own that about a victim for— for eternity.”
  —Dr. Laura Petler ([41:33])

• On the Children:

  “He separated the targets from innocent people. In his mind, you know, he didn’t see the children as being, as being the targets. He wasn’t angry with the children. They, they didn’t have anything to do with it. Which is, you know, very, very good, you know, that the children were not involved.”
  —Dr. Laura Petler ([43:02])

• On the Entrance Method:

  “A lot of times in any murder case... people can get really lost in the minutia of what is so obvious... For me, I don't think it’s… going to be anything out of the ordinary or… something really crazy.”
  —Dr. Laura Petler ([45:55])

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Key Timestamps

• [01:07] — Banfield sets the stage: case details, the suspects, courtroom recap
• [05:44] — Excerpts of the raw 911 call are played
• [12:18] — Dr. Laura Petler joins for forensic deconstruction
• [13:28] — Petler outlines initial investigative steps and the importance of victimology
• [16:38] — Deep dive on the psychology and forensic reconstruction of intimate partner murders
• [19:12] — Conflict/benefit framework applied to the alleged offender
• [22:27] — Technical discussion: laser and mannequin reconstruction of crime scenes
• [30:27] — Petler speculates offender likely “walked in and shot them while they slept”
• [35:21] — Discussion on physical responses to being shot, possible movement, and case parallels
• [43:02] — Understanding the sparing of children and the psychology behind it
• [45:55] — Speculation on how the killer gained entry—likely with door code
• [50:27] — Offender’s medical expertise discussed as relevant to method and outcome

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Conclusion

Ashleigh Banfield and Dr. Laura Petler’s conversation offers a deep forensic and psychological breakdown of the Tepe double homicide, emphasizing the importance of victim and suspect profiles, crime scene science, and the “simple but powerful” ways perpetrators act. The discussion demystifies some of the more lurid speculative elements circulating online, while providing expert insight on how crime scenes “speak” to those who know how to listen. Banfield promises future updates as more forensic and court details emerge.

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For listeners:
This episode is essential for understanding not just the facts of the Tepe case, but also the critical methods modern investigators use to read a crime scene, the mind of the perpetrator, and the story left behind when violence shatters the everyday safety we take for granted.

Transcript

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[Ashley Banfield]

My benefits suit me so I earn on both big and little things in life and so can you. Are you a foodie who dines in or one who takes out maybe a traveler searching for new destinations and travel perks? Saving rewards for something big or maybe for someone small? There's an AMEX card waiting for you. See if you pre qualify for an American Express card with no impact on your credit score. Learn [e-mail] Tech4OFFERS. Your credit score may be impacted if you accept a card. Terms apply. Hey everyone, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is drop dead serious. And yes it is the eve of the snowpocalypse across the country and I'm in Vermont and it's very cold. It's a temperature right now one degree without the wind chill. So like -20 with the wind chill. So I've got my flannel on and a roaring fire. But I had to come to you because there's been activity in the murders of Spencer and Monique Tepe in Columbus, Ohio. In that case that just shocked us across the country. You remember the young couple gunned down inside their own home while their children were sleeping just feet away on the second floor. The man that police say crept into the Tepes home and gunned down these parents is Monique Tepe's ex husband Dr. Michael McKee a vascular surgeon from Chicago. And earlier today, and I'm recording this on Friday, January 22nd, we got our first look inside at that surgeon turned double murder defendant as he was arraigned in Franklin County, Ohio, into the courtroom. But weirdly, he came in via video. I'll show it to you in a minute. Charged with five counts of aggravated murder. I know two victims, five counts. Okay, so just quickly. Two counts of aggravated murder are based on the use of a firearm with a silencer and premeditation. And two counts of aggravated murder are based on premeditation. Right, so that would be the drive and the silencer and all that. And two other counts. Those two are based on murder in the commission of a burglary. So it's kind of like felony murder in other jurisdictions. But they, they've got basically an insurance policy. If the jury doesn't agree it was premeditated, well, you could always go to the fact that know there was a burglary. It's kind of obvious. So that's why four counts of AG murder and then there's a burglary charge as well. Dr. Michael McKee's new and extremely competent lawyer, Diane Manashi, is no stranger to high profile cases. She previously represented William Hussle, the Ohio doctor who was acquitted of 14 counts of murder. So yeah, that is a very good lawyer, especially for a vascular surgeon. But today that defense lawyer didn't have to do a whole lot of heavy lifting. Today was very different. And that's because that court appearance was like fast and clinical and it was over almost before it began. Take a look.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

We're on the record. Make your parents call you. First case, please. Good afternoon, you, Honor. Steven Shot Dan Letter, Shayla Faber for the state.

[Court Official]

First case before the court.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

State of Ohio versus Michael McKee is 26 CR253. There are five counts, four counts of aggravated murder, unclassified felonies, and one count of aggravated burglary, felony one. Each of these counts come with a three and a six year firearm specification. Thank you, counselor.

[Ashley Banfield]

Please make your appearance.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

Thank you, your honor. Diane Menashe on behalf of Michael McKee. Thank you, your honor. With respect to the allegations, we would acknowledge receipt, waive reading. Enter not guilty pleas to all counts confess contained therein. We would also waive bond at this.

[Ashley Banfield]

Time, although we certainly reserve the right.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

To raise that at a later date. The plea of not guilty form has been executed and signed on behalf of my client. Any further? Thank you, council. I've signed the not guilty plea. I'm Signing the bond form indicating the bond has been waived. Anything further?

[Ashley Banfield]

No, your honor.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[Ashley Banfield]

Before the police ever stepped inside that house, there was a phone call that was made. It was a 911 call that was placed by a friend of Spencer Tepe's, A call that alerted dispatch that something was really wrong inside the Tepes home. We have played you that call before, and it is hard to hear, but it matters. So I want you to hear it again, knowing what we know now, because everything in it will be a clue that I'm about to discuss with a very smart forensic investigator.

[Court Official]

Let me get you on the line with the medic. Okay, Stay on the line. Oh, my God. What is the address of your emergency? 1411 Northwest. Okay. 1411. Yeah. All right. The house. Apartment house. All right, let me ask which one on the. There's a body. Our friend wasn't answering his phone. We just did a wellness check. We just came here, and he appears dead. There's blood. He's laying next to his bed, off of his bed, in his blood. I can't get closer to see more than that. Okay, so you can tell he's obviously not breathing or anything. Yeah, yeah. Is it like, kind of like. Like, you know, does he look like. It doesn't. I can't look. Okay. All right.

[Ashley Banfield]

Understand now, that phone call is really raw, and it captures something very important the moment before the investigation actually begins. And it raises a lot of questions that investigators are likely still working to put together an answer to help us understand what the crime scene may tell investigators moving forward. I talked to somebody who knows how these cases unfold from the inside. Dr. Laura Petler is a forensic criminologist, an expert in domestic violence and staged homicides. So basically, what I wanted to know is what the scene of the crime, the place where this couple met, their deaths, what that tells us. Because there is so much that the layperson would never see. They would see a bloody scene, and they would be terrified, just like that 911 caller. But to the trained eye, they see a story. They see an entire story playing out. What the killer did, how long the killer took. Did the killer torture these people or even psychologically try to torture these people? Did the killer kill one person and make the other watch and then kill the other? Did those people try to crawl for help and then get a second bullet? I mean, they're so many things that forensic investigators see that you and I may not. But before I play you this conversation, and trust me, you've Got to stick around for it and also subscribe. It would do me a big solid if you would subscribe. Thank you. I just want to thank you if you've already subscribed, if you're a member, thank you so much for supporting this podcast. I couldn't do it without you. I also want to thank my sponsors because, honestly, I cannot do it with them either. And my latest sponsor, Cook Unity. I'm obsessed. It's been a complete lifesaver for me.

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50% off regular price for new customers. Upfront payment required $45 for 3 months, $90 for 6 month or $180 for 12 month plan taxes and fees. Extra speeds may slow after 50 gigabytes per month when network is busy see terms. Okay, back to the case. Dr. Laura Petler is a forensic criminologist. She's an expert in domestic violence. She's also an expert in staged homicides. And this woman knows her way around a crime scene. She can tell you almost exactly what happened before the bullets went out, after the bullets went out and as the crime scene investigators arrived. Here's our conversation. Let's just start with your thoughts about this case because I, I am obsessed. And I know I'm not the only one.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

You know, Ashley, I think that this is one of those cases that really hit every, it hits everybody in the gut because, because it's everyone's worst nightmare to be in your home where you feel safest and have somebody break into your house or come into your house in some other way and murder you in the middle of the night. And I think that just that premise alone has really shaken people, especially maybe in their community. And that's like always when I think of this case, that's the very first thing I think of.

[Ashley Banfield]

And we're so defenseless, you know, when we're asleep in our beds thinking that we're safe in our, you know, our homes. I am so curious about, in the absence of information, what the victims of this crime, what Monique and Spencer Tappe are going to be able to tell us. And that's always the fascination in the forensic aspect of this case. Looking at what we know so far, what do you think, think investigators are going to be doing with that crime scene, with those bodies in order to learn what happened in that room?

[Dr. Laura Petler]

Okay. So for me, the very first thing, this is what I always teach investigators. Start the investigation where the investigation starts. And in this case, it starts with the 911 call made by one of the Tepes friends. And that call, the. The caller describes what he is seeing in the room. And that is where they should start because then they have this. The. The first images of what is seen in the pristine condition that the crime scene's in. The second step for me would be to go through the crime scene itself and kind of make a cursory inventory of. Okay, I'm going to need to process this. I need to process, process this. I need this type of equipment. I suspect maybe there might be latent evidence. I might need to do blood stain evidence. I might need to do shooting reconstruction in the future. So I'm going to make sure that my documentation is so stellar and bring in every big gun and resource that I can possibly bring in to make sure that we have it documented for reconstruction process purposes. The third thing I'm going to do is start victimology immediately and have it completed within the first 48 hours, actually, because the more you know about the victims, the more you will understand that crime scene, and then you can move that towards building your suspectology, which is pretty much like the opposite of the victimology, but asking a lot of same questions and using the suspectology to understand the dynamics between the victims and the suspect so that you can begin to hypothesize, were the victims lying down at the times of the shots, Were the victims standing, Were they sitting? And so those are all types of research questions we'll ask. And then we ask the same types of questions in reconstruction for the suspect. So we're going to say, was the suspect standing? Was the suspect sitting? Was the suspect standing on his head? Kind of idea. We're going to go through everything even as if, even if it sounds ridiculous, we're still going to do that. Because objective science makes sure that you investigate every single possible way you can think of that it could possibly happen.

[Ashley Banfield]

And apart from, you know, being able to glean evidence that can be used to convict a suspect, you are also discovering the story of what happened in that room. And I want you to sort of tell me what the possibilities are at this point. I mean, I have things in My head where if. If Monique Tepe's ex husband, Dr. Michael McKee, is guilty of this crime, he is seething for a decade over this divorce. And I can't imagine what a person like that would want to do in those final moments. Would they want to be quick and get out of there? Would they want to make it awful? Would they want to make it last? Would they want one person to see the other one die? Would there be torture and all of those things you can ascertain?

[Dr. Laura Petler]

We can. There's. For me, I'm a forensic criminologist, so I do this a certain way. So we start with victimology, and then we move into crime scene dynamics, Then we move into crime scene characteristics. And then from those three things, we begin to build an offender profile like his, not like a. Not like a criminal profile like who we're finding, but more like what are the characteristics of this person? Is this about power and control or is it about anger? And, you know, for me, I think it's about both. And it falls under the category of domestic violence homicide or intimate partner homicide. Even if they're former intimate partners, it would still technically be classified that way. And it's interesting because what is he feeling? What is he thinking? And those are things that we definitely want to explore in forensic criminology, because you're right, there's some kind of trigger. And in this particular type of homicide, there's always a trigger. So, like, that trigger activates an emotion and it ignites a thought, and then it culminates in a behavior. And in this case, it culminated in pulling a trigger and shooting two people in their home. So what is he thinking? You know, I want power and control. I want to satisfy my anger. And then what is he thinking afterwards? You know, a firearm is I don't have to touch you to kill you kind of weapon. It's not going in there and stabbing them and beating them to death. That is a totally different type of attack. So he wants to keep it clean, he wants to keep it organized. He wants separation, he wants to keep. He wants to keep control of the scene and have that distance between him and the victims. So we already know those things by his choice of a firearm as opposed to his hands or as opposed to a club or a knife. So we can already understand those things about his psychology. And then, you know, what did he do afterwards is really kind of going to explain what this is all about. Because normally in cases like this, we see the trigger on the front end and we see benefit on the back.

[Ashley Banfield]

Explain that. What do you mean?

[Dr. Laura Petler]

So murder in this particular case, like in, in domestic violence homicide, intimate partner homicide, it's conflict resolution for the offender. So this would be like in, as opposed to like fantasy driven homicides, which are, you know, fantasy driven homicides, like the Golden State serial killer, for example, you know, that's a totally different type of murder. But in this kind, this is conflict resolution for the offender. What is the conflict? So we always ask three questions when we're talking about staged murder. And this is not staged, but in this we always ask, you know, who, who is in conflict with the victim and what is that conflict? We know that they divorced. We know from her brother, from Monique's brother, that she was receiving like some type of threats from, she feared him and yeah, she was afraid of him. And that's like your classic domestic violence type. Victim is afraid of the offender, meaning the abuser in this case. And that's what she, she felt, you know, and when, when you have that kind of situation, you do have to act on it, you know, you want to, you want to take those kinds of threats seriously. And, and I understand, you know, nobody thinks that, nobody thinks it's going to culminate in murder except for people, for example, like Kathleen Savio who wrote a letter to the DA's office and said, Drew Peterson is going to kill me and you guys aren't going to believe me, you know what I mean? So there are people that do actually fear that person and believe they're going to be killed. But I very seriously doubt that was what Monique was thinking, thinking at this point many years down the road. And it goes back to the benefit, you know, it's conflict resolution and then benefit at the end. So the conflict, we don't know, is it the divorce, is it her success, is it her happiness? Is it what she's posting on social media? And then that's, you know, we have to identify the trigger and then what's the resolution? The state's alleging that the resolution was murder and that's the resolution to the conflict. There's lots of ways you can resolve conflict, but this is what he chose. And then how does he benefit from the victim's deaths? There's always a payoff.

[Ashley Banfield]

So then talk to me about that. You were mentioning something about the after effect after the trigger is pulled and the behavior after. So walk me through a little bit of that and the psychology of it and the story that you can learn from the forensics and about the after effect after the trigger was Pulled.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

So you know, the, the, the shooting reconstruction that I would do personally, you know that my. What, how I would handle this case, I would go through the victimology. I would go through the autopsy and wound pattern analysis, the suspectology, all the crime lab reports, and then that would build that into the reconstruction and in the pools of questions for, for the victim's questions and the, the suspect questions. And then I would, I would merge that together with a laser reconstruction inside that room. And the good thing about that, like literally.

[Ashley Banfield]

Like, literally a laser reconstruction.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

Yes. So we use something that I invented called the Kaleidoscope crime scene reconstruction system. And it is a shooting reconstruction and bloodstained reconstruction construction system using lasers. So we would be using lasers and like, did you ever see those glowing dowel rods? Like. Yeah, yeah, I, I invented that system. So that's, that's the system that, that we use here. There are many systems people can choose, but we use that one because that's the one that, that I like to use. So I would be using like forensic mannequins or digital animation or a Leica 360 or a Pharaoh. Like these are all forensic reconstruction systems. You can use many different ones. I like to use the lasers because you can show a jury, you know, exactly. Not, I don't mean exactly like down to the millimeter. I mean like an area, a range of where that shooter was standing or sitting or positioned in that room. And then per shot you can reconstruct that to get a glimpse of the event. It's important to recognize that the limitations of, of reconstruction is only going to give you like a glimpse. It's not going to give you the entire full gamut because none of us were witnesses. Right. So we're never going to know the full story. We just can get an idea of what happened through that recon. So then once I understand the recon and the distance between, between the firearm, you know that weapon is in between these people. Right. And so like there's a whole psychology to that and like, how close did they come? Where are they? Locate the wounds located on the body.

[Ashley Banfield]

If you'd be able to tell if, if say Spencer Tepe Bum rushed the shooter and was killed on the way to trying to tackle.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

That's right. That's great. Yeah. We're going to move that, those lasers around using forensic mannequins. Stand people up, lie them down, sit them in, you know, whatever positions we need to, to, to. To test. And we're going to test everything. And of course, because there's like walls in there that you can only, you can only have this happen in certain ways in the blood stain pattern evidence. Even depending on where the shots are, it's going to determine how much blood, where the blood is, things like that. The clothing is going to help us understand the blood stain patterns as well. And then we use those to help us understand where people were and where they can't be. Like, obviously we know someone's not sitting on the ceiling, right? And they can't be so far this way that, that shot, you know, because it's all from project. Yeah, it's all physics. It has to be in line with physics.

[Ashley Banfield]

Can you tell if there was a lengthy preamble to the murders? Meaning I, I just imagine if, if someone is that angry. And again, Dr. McKee is innocent until proven guilty, but if he was seething for a decade and he came to do this, did he really just want to get in, get out and just leave some dead people behind, or did he want to do some payback during the killings? Meaning stand up, both of you, you over on the wall, shoot somebody in the leg, shoot somebody in the arm, Watch Monique freak out and, and, and be terrorized by this, slowly killing her mate until finally turning the gun on her because she was shot once in the chest, as I understand from the evidence so far. And he was shot at, I think twice because there's three, three shell casings. But who know if he took, who knows if he took some with him. But walk me through a little of that sort of storytelling.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

So it's really important to realize, recognize the thing about murder is that it doesn't actually start with the death of the victim. It starts when the offender begins to plan that murder. And it doesn't end with the death of the victims. It ends when an offender stops gleaning or gaining pleasure or satisfaction from them. So this actually started long time before they were actually killed. Who knows how long, you know, was it 10 years? Was it a trigger that triggered him recently? Was there strain in his life? And so, yes, like a lot of power assertive type offenders like this that transition into becoming anger retaliatory. They start out like wanting power and control over a victim, but they end up, you know, expressing anger this way. And they oftentimes don't use language that they don't, they don't have a lot of conversation. If it's, if it's really just about power and control, there's nothing really a lot to say. They just need to take control of those victims. Through force. But that is not really what this is. This is some type of a culmination of emotion. This was an ignite, ignition of emotion. Whatever triggered this ignited emotion of anger, of rage. And then that, that becomes a thought. And then that thought becomes a behavior which is I'm getting in a car. Car. Allegedly driving to the Tepe residence and allegedly shooting these two people while they sleep. That's an ambush. It's different than ambushing them during the day. And the risk level is mitigated because it's at night, it's under the fall of darkness, it's in a closed room, it's in a closed house. All of those become barriers to the outside world. So he can get this done or who, you know, allegedly get this done privately.

[Ashley Banfield]

Would you be surprised if it was just the killer walked in, unloaded his gun and left quickly? Would you be surprised or do you think there would be more to it for the enjoyment of the control?

[Dr. Laura Petler]

That's like, that's total classic power and control type murder. Like power interest based murders. They just walk in. There's really, if there's any language, it's just really direct language, like don't move, don't talk, get on the floor, sit down. You know, it's that they don't draw it out. If they're angry, they do. That's why I'm saying, like, I think that there's elements here that are reflective of anger. And to me, when I saw this first happened and I was like, whoa, this is really a significant case because I do not, unfortunately, I, you know, I'm working my own cases, so I don't, I cannot follow every single case that's in the media. But this one actually caught my attention and I thought immediately that this was anger based. You know, I thought it was anger based. I thought it looked like the, you know, the super bike murders down in South Carolina with Todd Kohlhepp. You know, I always thought that was the suspect in that case was going to be on the client list. And that's exactly what it was. But that was always my opinion for a decade prior.

[Ashley Banfield]

And it was murder was just so off the chain based on the fact that he murdered these people in the bike shop, but then he held Kayla Brown in that, in that container for so long, raping her, abusing her. I mean, those were two completely different kinds of crimes and usually two different kinds of criminals. It was the same guy, but back into the Spencer's room. What do you imagine based on, again, based on the limited Facts we have now, what do you imagine happened?

[Dr. Laura Petler]

I imagine an offender walking in there and shooting them probably while they.

[Ashley Banfield]

So not ordering them out of bed, not ordering them to stand, not or what making one watch the other being killed. Not like that.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

You know, I, for me, the 911 call was illustrious of maybe being surprised, you know, and like I believe, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the last information about the 911 call was that that Spencer Tepe was partially off the bed.

[Ashley Banfield]

I think fully off the bed. I was wondering myself, but when I listened a few times, he was off the bed. And this caller did not see Monique Tepe's body. He just saw Spencer's. Tepe. Spencer Tepe in a pool of blood, with blood everywhere off the bed. And that's why I was trying to figure out what would have happened so.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

The victimology would, would answer all those questions because we're going to study personality and we're going to study how they're going to respond to something like this. It's very common in murders that where you have a legitimate home invasion, a legitimate, not staged legitimate home invasion where they take out the most, the biggest threat first and sometimes they have to use additional force to do that and then they are terrorizing, you know, the other victim and was she left alive, you know, to witness these things? Did he want to, to create that torture effect? We don't know those things are going to come out. Pretty much the victimology is going to tell us a lot about that because, you know, what would Spencer Tepe likely do under attack or what are their normal sleeping positions, how many pillows did they sleep with, what clothing did they sleep in and those kinds of things. The window is big. I'm going to tell you the window, that window they originally were talking about like that 2 hour, 2am to 5am that is an enormous window when it's coming. Like when you're talking about narrowing it down for like, especially for like trial.

[Ashley Banfield]

Now they know it's 3:52am They've actually pinpointed the exact time, which I'm also fascinated by. Was that a camera? Was that a baby monitor? What was it that gave them?

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[Dr. Laura Petler]

It could have been a watch, like an iwatch, you know, because it'll stop. Like it'll track. Yes, the heart and respirations and things. So a lot of that kind of stuff come precise like that. That will come from the digital evidence.

[Ashley Banfield]

So I was also wondering if it's possible if the killer. And again, I don't know if it's Michael McKee yet or not. It's for a jury. But if the killer shot them both as they were just sleeping, if he got enough satisfaction out of just that, which I don't personally, I just don't think so. Not after that much planning and driving and, and ruminating in anger. I just feel like it would be almost less satisfactory to just end it so quickly without being able to look in someone's eyes and let them know I'm doing this. But if he killed, well, if the killer killed, shot Spencer first, then shot Monique and Spencer didn't die and was trying to get out of bed and get help. And then the killer decided, I need, I need another shot for this person. And that at that point he's now on the ground.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

You know, I think that Spencer kind of is like, you know, he has, like, from what we know right now, he has more bullets to his body than she does at least two. So it, yeah, so it's kind of like, you know, who is, who is the primary target here? Or was one of those shots to incapacitate him? People can move around once they have, once they're physically shot by a firearm. It depends on the location. Especially like say, for example, these are in the pleural cavity. Like they're going through the lungs. I mean I've seen people literally run like up to like 120, 140ft. Maybe if they're shot like through the lung, through the shoulder area, something that's non fatal. People have like 8 seconds of oxygen left in their brain after something like that happens. Even if blood pressure starts to drop, they start still kind of can move. And, and that's just my general experience, you know, I mean I've had, I have literally had two cases like that. And one I think was 120ft. He had stolen some copper and was running from the guy that was, came out and caught him and the guy shot him and he took off running and we found him in the wood line. Another one, another one was burglarizing a truck and the, the guy came out and shot him from the porch. And that guy ran about 140, 150ft, something like that. We found him, you know, about that far away. So, you know, people can move around. So if it's, if it's a, you know, if you get shot in the foot, you can move around. If you get shot in the chest, maybe, and it's not like a complete, like where your heart explodes or something, I mean you can technically still move around. And a forensic pathologist could address that more when, when we have more information. But for me, I'm gonna be looking for purposeful movement. And then, you know, you have to have an injury to have blood stains. So that's gonna come into play big time. And then of course you got blankets involved, you've got pillows involved.

[Ashley Banfield]

You know that, that makes, it doesn't.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

Sound like it may be a headshot.

[Ashley Banfield]

Look, if you, if you're roused awake by gunshots and what's the most vulnerable place we can be? In bed. I think your first instinct, even if your shot is get, get out of bed, get out of here. You're a sitting duck. And so maybe both of them rolled out, got out of their beds and for that reason they were not visible to the 911 caller only Spencer wasn't. Maybe that was the angle that the master bedroom allowed him to See?

[Dr. Laura Petler]

Yeah. I mean, you fit. You know, like, sometimes, like, if you wake somebody up, you know, like if you startle someone, like, think about how, like, they literally just jump, you know, like somebody just will get startled. They. They might throw their hands up or something or literally, you know, fall out of bed if they're startled that way. So the, the recon, hopefully the blood stain pattern analysis, like, if. If they. I'm sure they have brought all that in there to do all that. I. I cannot imagine, you know, not, not doing all of that with all the technology that we have. The digital evidence is going to be really, really big in this case, I would imagine. Just because, like, like you said, it's pinpointed down to 3, 5, 2. You know what I mean? Ours, it's like boom, right there. They know exactly when this took place. And I don't know if that coincides with that video of the man that's walking in the alley near their house. I don't know what time they said that that was. That was shot.

[Ashley Banfield]

They said that was right after that. The. That the person in the alley.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

Oh, what?

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

Okay.

[Ashley Banfield]

So it corresponded and they said it's him. You know, the prosecutor said that's the killer. That's Michael McKee walking in that alley. They have.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

Okay, so the prosecutor has come out and said that.

[Ashley Banfield]

So.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

Okay. You know, I spent a lot of time working in the DA's office in my early in my career, and one thing I learned, I learned a lot of things, but one thing I learned was how a prosecution assembles a murder case and what those elements are when they go to prove their case and they prove those, the elements of that statute, of whatever it is they're charging the defendant with, they are going to not only tell the story on the front end of the trial and introduce things and say, I'm going to prove this, and I'm going to prove this, and I'm going to prove this. But then in the case in Chief during the middle, they want to see support. All those things they pro. All those promises that they made to the jury and deliver on every single one of those. And so the prosecutor is coming out this early and saying, that's the guy that, that shot Monique and Spencer. Ted. Oh, the police chief. Okay. Yeah, that's definitely different than a prosecutor, but they're. If that is what they're saying they are, they are definitely confident in that. You know, I. For me, he was walking with, like, a euphoric way, and I've seen so many killers walk away from. From scenes like that. And I. I made that comment on it in what I think, actually in my own YouTube discussion about this case. I. I think that a lot of times when you have an anger retaliatory offender, I've always taught my investigators, when you guys are blue lighting to the scene, you need to also be aware of who's walking toward you. Because a lot of times these. An anger retaliatory offender will walk to and from the scene. They'll park up to a mile away and walk over there. They won't, like, maybe even drive right up to the location. They like. There's an element of them walking, and I think it's part of the anger. Like they're stomping and storming over there, kind of an idea. I've seen him go through the woods. I've seen them go through all kinds of things over the years. And. And they. They get there, they complete the act, and then they have this euphoric kind of way of moving. And sometimes when you find them, they're, like, covered in blood, and they just don't even care. And you're like, yeah, get in the car. And they get in the car and, you know, you know, like a police car, like an officer arrest them, you know, and they're covered in blood, and they just. They don't really care. They're just so high off of the kill. And I would think after driving that many hours, allegedly, Mr. McKee had a lot of time to think about that. To and from. I'd be looking at, for all traffic infractions, you know, to and from, see if he got any speeding tickets, any kind of stoplight, running, stop lights, stop signs. They. These types of cases, when you have an angry retaliatory offender. And in my opinion, that's what we have in this case, whether it's McKee or not, that's still what we have one way or the other, in my opinion, from the forensic criminology side of the house. And there. There was a lot of benefit to this, to this death. It gave him power and control. He has ultimate control. There's, you know, it's a very intimate thing to take someone. Someone's life, and they kind of own that about a victim for. For eternity. Nobody else can do that particular thing with that victim. You can only have that experience with that victim one time.

[Ashley Banfield]

Let me ask you this last piece, and that is that the killer left the children, and the children were left alone with their dead parents in the house for hours. What does that say to you about.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

This person that he separated the targets from innocent people. In his mind, you know, he didn't see the children as being, as being the targets. He wasn't angry with the children. They, they didn't have anything to do with it. Which is, you know, very, very good, you know, that the children were not involved. And it just, it shows something about who he was actually targeting versus who he was not. And you know, sometimes in domestic violence homicide or intimate partner homicide, Ashley, unfortunately children are harmed that do not belong to a domestic homicide offender because they represent or remind that offender of previous relationships that the victim had. And so it's good that the children were not involved. Maybe they were, maybe they were locked in another room. You know, that's very possible that the children could not. I believe I heard a report where somebody heard one of the children yell or something from the house.

[Ashley Banfield]

Crying.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

Yep, crying. And so like maybe the child could not get out of where the child was. And maybe they were actually, they were isolated somewhere, you know, they were literally kind of put in a room or something where they, they were locked in or barricaded in there, you know, somehow where they couldn't get out and discover their parents.

[Ashley Banfield]

I mean, let's hope that's what Rob Misla, the brother in law, told me originally, that he did not believe that these children saw the killings or the aftermath. And I can only Hope because a 4 year old could remember that maybe not the 17 month old, but a 4 year old could have that memory imprinted which would just be. And I wonder if that would be a mitigator in all of this. If this goes to trial, if it's death penalty that the children were spared. I, it haunts me to even think it would be questioned.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

But I don't consider, I think too it could also be considered an aggravator that he does this and endangers these children, you know, that it's more aggravated than, you know. I, I understand exactly what you mean. Like it mitigated from the standpoint that he didn't hurt them, but it's, it to me it could also be perceived as, as aggravating because they're in the home and it's endangering their lives to be shooting and killing people, you know, in their house.

[Ashley Banfield]

Makes sense. There's only one other issue that so many people who are following this case have really seized on and that is how did he get in? Do you have any thoughts?

[Dr. Laura Petler]

Oh yeah, You know, I think it's just a real simple thing I think it's going to come out that it's pretty easy and simple. I mean that a lot of times when we have any murder case and you see this all the time in social media, you see it all over everywhere. People can get really lost in the minutia of what is so obvious like in everyday life. And killers are, killers don't operate by some, on some strange continuum. They really are driven by the same drives we're all driven by every day, which is emotion and thoughts. You know, it's. They don't stray too far outside the box. People are creatures of habit. And so for me, I don't think it's of kind going to be anything out of the ordinary or it's going to be something really crazy. Like for example, when you take there was one case with a colleague of mine and the, the offender removed the screws around the window, like a sliding glass door of a window, remove the entire thing so there was no breaking and entering came in the house and then when the offender left, replaced the entire door or an entire window back into that location. So when the police arrive, they don't see any breaking and entering. So could it be something really crazy? Sure. Usually it's not because that increases the risk. This is in the middle of the night. They're gonna know what time he arrived, what time how long it took him, and you know, how long it. It took him to leave and get back to his vehicle. They're going to be able to figure all of that out on the timeline. So what is possible? What is physically possible?

[Ashley Banfield]

And I feel like this is my theory only, but I feel like he used birthdays and, and just use the code at the front. Either, either use binoculars. Again, this is the killer. I don't know if it's Michael McKee or not, but either use binoculars and staked out what they were typing in on the code, or used a combination of the kids birthdays or the victim's birthdays and, and got in by using, I mean so many people use these codes. Right.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

I agree with you. I think it's something so simple. I think it is absolutely a very simple thing that, you know, I think it's going to come out that it's really just easy. I don't think it's going to be really complicated. And I think, I think honestly the scene's going to be that way as well. I think the results of the scene are going to be that way because these kind of guys, they like control. They do not want a mess. They do not want a, a big, long, drawn out thing. They want to come in there, they want to do what they want, want to do to satisfy their anger and they leave. You know, they don't, they don't sit around. Now, one thing that's interesting about this particular suspect is that he is a physician. And physicians are used to patients. So some people that are not used to being around humans that are injured or humans that are just deceased can not be around those, cannot be around bodies. Like people get really freaked out over the dead. Right. I would not imagine that this is a person who has any kind of issue with people who are injured or people who are deceased because he is a physician. And so the psychology of that, you know, depending on how long he can stay with the bodies, that speaks volumes, you know, to his understanding. And did he just want to sit there and wallow in it and like experience it or did he leave and just start experiencing it after the fact? And this is the, this is the kind of guy that's probably never going to talk, never going to explain nothing. He's, he's going to, he's going to hold that power and control and only he's going to know what happened. Oh, that experience, to probably want to keep it fascinating. Yeah.

[Ashley Banfield]

This is a guy, this is a guy who's covered in blood for a living. Literally. He is in blood as a cardiovascular surgeon. He is. I mean, just being bloody is part of every day. So it is pretty fascinating that.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

And he also understands anatomy and where to shoot somebody or what would take somebody out, you know? Yeah. I mean, a surgeon especially is going to understand blood pressure. If you shoot somebody this location, it's going to immediately, like their blood pressure is going to immediately fall. They're going to be completely incapacitated. Or if I shoot someone here, this is good. I mean, he actually does understand all the.

[Ashley Banfield]

I said cardiovascular. He's actually a vascular surgeon. I'm not sure if there's a grave amount of difference between them, but he's a vascular, so he knows how to bleed out.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

He's still going to understand. Yeah, he's still going to understand everything about the pressure of the body. And I mean, all those things, things that like, you know, you shoot somebody in the big toe is going to be different than shooting somebody in the aorta, you know what I mean? Things like that, some in the carotid or the jugulars. I mean, all of those kinds of things. You know, this guy is going to, you know, this suspect knows all that and understands anatomy. That's a big deal.

[Ashley Banfield]

And we only know at this point that Monique was shot in the chest and Spencer was shot multiple times, but they didn't say where. Which got me, you know, wondering all these questions that I've had for you. But you have to join me again when we learn more because as the picture starts coming together, I think we'll have a different tack to take. Would you do that?

[Dr. Laura Petler]

Yeah, absolutely. I would love to. Thank you so much.

[Ashley Banfield]

Thank you so much for this. I really appreciate it.

[Dr. Laura Petler]

Thank you for having me, Ashley. It's always a pleasure. And I'm, you know, I, I enjoy our conversations and I think this is a very important case that we all need to pay attention to and learn from.

[Ashley Banfield]

Agreed. Okay. Well, look forward to our next conversation. This case is far from over and we're going to be tracking it as it unfolds. Be sure you subscribe on YouTube or on your favorite podcast app so you can stay with us as the story continues. I need to be doing me a solid too. I'd really appreciate it. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for watching. And remember, I'm Ashley Banfield. The truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.

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