← Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Seething For A Decade? Ex-Husband Chained in Court, New Charges Filed in Ohio Dentist Double Murders | Dr. Michael McKee
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Hi everybody, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is Drop Dead Serious. And I have a lot to get to in this episode about the Ohio double murder. Spencer and Monique Tepe. Like when I say a lot, I mean a lot of new information. A court appearance, photos of the ex husband, jilted ex husband maybe, who is a vascular surgeon in court in yellow jailhouse, you know, fatigues, facing the very real reality that he could face the death penalty at this point, charges upgraded. I'll tell you why, what they are now. And I've got a couple of really good interviews for you. A neighbor of Dr. Michael McKee in that fancy high rise apartment in Chicago tells me all about what her interactions were like with him and how the building is dealing with this and what the building told all the residents after this arrest. I also have Angenette Levy on the program with me today. She's the host of Crime Fix on Law and Crime. She's an Ohio native and she's got this grapevine that has been reaching out to her with lots of background information and you know, really good scoop since the story broke. So she's going to join me. And not only that, I got a couple more like really great nuggets of information to share with you about what the cops are doing right now in order to build the case if they haven't already got it. So if you want to catch up on all of the arrest details as well as my full breakdown of Dr. Michael McKee and his relationship with Monique. Now she was Monique McKee. She became Monique Tepe. I do want to tell my audience right now because some of you were very upset when I was calling her Mo. That's how she referred to herself. That's how friends and family refer to her. She goes by Mo. So if you hear me using the phrase, you know, Mo and Spencer Tepe, that's how she referred to herself. This was not me, you know, picking a nickname for her. Far from it. I've done another case where the victim's name was Mo. It was in Texas. Two cyclists. It was a love triangle. Mo was murdered. She went by Mo, and that's what we called her. So I just want to assuage concerns if you think that I was being disrespectful. I was actually just trying to honor how Monique likes to be referred. So I go back and forth between the formal Monique and and Mo. I am going to link my latest episode in the description of this podcast so you can get right up to speed. There's also a playlist if you want to get really caught up on the case and go back a couple more episodes, you know, from start to finish. I also want to make another reference. I read your comments, y'. All. I do. And so a couple of you were very upset with me referencing Bryan Kohberger as relates to this case. And that is also very strategic. I have been in true crime long enough, God, 38 years in this business, so that I know one crime informs detectives as they move forward in future crime fighting. So often the things that Dahmer did, the things that Bundy did, the things that BK did, these things actually change crime fighting techniques, and they are shared nationwide. They have conferences about crime fighting techniques. And so when I talk about Coburger and the things he did at 1122 King Road and how similar that sort of style of killing was to the Tepe home killing, it is strictly about the strategic attack, not just by the killer, but also by the police officers in their investigative and detective work. So there is a lot that can inform what the police are doing now based on what happened at 1122 King Road and new things that police will be doing across the country because of Bryan Coburger at 1122 King Road. So, again, no disrespect, just actual true crime reporting from somebody who's just been to this rodeo so many times and so many crimes. So let's get right down to business. Since Dr. McKee was arrested, that was Saturday morning, kind of came out of the blue for a lot of us. A lot more pieces have started to fall into place. There's, like, new details, a lot of new clues, and there's also a clearer sense of how the case is coming together along with Some early signals about where investigators and prosecutors may be headed. So let me start from the beginning. So, as I'm sure you know by now, Dr. McKee was arrested on Saturday morning. They picked him up in Rockford, Illinois. I know, weird. These are like an hour and a half apart. Rockford and where he actually lives in Chicago. So he lives in Chicago Right on Lake Michigan. Rockford is like 80 miles away. That's where he works. I guess he was commuting an hour and a half every day, and on a Saturday morning, they got him in Rockford. So maybe he was putting in a shift on Saturday morning. That's where they found his vehicle. That's where they arrested him. And the investigators say they linked him to a vehicle that was captured on surveillance video arriving near the home of Monique and Spencer Tepe in Columbus, Ohio, shortly before the murders. And wouldn't you know it, Leaving that area shortly afterwards. I want to just clarify one thing. I've gone back and forth a little bit about whether this was his car that they found. The operative word there being his. They say that he was in possession of this car. And some took it to mean that he possessed this car, owned this car. Others are taking it to mean he was in possession. Maybe he stole it, allegedly. Maybe he rented it, allegedly. We're not exactly sure whether it was his actual vehicle, but whatever it was, it was a vehicle that they connected to him that ended up in the Tepe neighborhood right before and right after the murders, leaving. So anybody who's ever watched a cop show knows there is no statute of limitations on murder. But apparently, if Monique Tepe's first husband really did slip into her home and murder both her and her second husband, there is no statute of limitations on revenge either. Monique and Michael McKee, who is a vascular surgeon in Rockford, Illinois, these two were married for less than a year before splitting up and then divorcing 14 months later. So kind of a blip, Right? And that blip was a full decade ago. So let that sink in. This wasn't like a year or two ago, and she's found a new guy. And it's all very upsetting. This is a decade and more ago. Like I said, at the top of this episode, a lot of us did not see this arrest coming. But the Daily Mail reports that for the first time since the killings, members of Monique's family spoke publicly on Sunday before the family's private visitation. And what they shared was, like, super painful, but also very revealing. You know, Monique's relatives said the family had their suspicions for a while about who they believed was responsible. So when the arrest happened, they said it brought relief, but that it didn't come out of nowhere. That's telling. The family member said they had privately believed that Dr. Michael McKee, her ex husband, was involved, but they said they made a very conscious decision not to say that out loud to the public while this investigation was ongoing. And that's really big of them, right? Because imagine the pain they're going through. Imagine the vengeance they want to exact. And they kept quiet in honor of that investigation. They said they didn't want to jeopardize anything, they didn't want to interfere. So they waited quietly while the police did their work. After the arrest, the relatives said that there was a real sense of relief knowing that the person they suspected was now in custody, even though the grief was still very much there. And what's interesting, it was not described as shock to them. It was described more like as a confirmation of what they already had feared. Again, very telling. And when asked whether Monika Spencer had been dealing with any recent problems involving Dr. Michael McKee, the family member said they weren't aware of any specific conflicts in the days or the weeks leading up to the killings. So that's super interesting too, right? Because I keep coming back to if Dr. McKee did this. Yeah, we want to know the why, but we also want to know, like, what triggered now a decade later. And I'm gonna have more on that in just a minute. But Dr. McKee is now charged with two counts of aggravated murder with premeditation. Those charges probably sound different than they were just yesterday, even just early this morning. And that's because they were upgraded from plain old murder. It's very different in Ohio. Murder, an aggravated murder that happened this morning. And I am recording this on Monday, January 12th. So big upgrade from murder to aggravated murder. And why that's significant in the state of Ohio is that aggravated murder is functionally the equivalent of first degree murder in other states. It means that prosecutors believe that they can show either prior calculation and design, in other words, planning, or that the killing happened during the commission of another serious felony. And I believe as well, multiple victims qualifies you. We're talking about crimes that, you know, if you commit a murder in Ohio and you've got a crime like a kidnapping, a rape, an aggravated robbery, an arson, an aggravated burglary, that can get you up to aggravated murder. And why does that matter? Because aggravated murder makes you eligible in Ohio for the death penalty. I know Ohio's got a moratorium. They haven't executed anybody since, what, 20, 18 or 19. But it doesn't matter, because moratoriums can change. If, you know, drug protocols change or firing squads are approved, suddenly moratoriums can be lifted. Some moratoriums are based on morals. Some moratoriums are based on the availability of the drugs that you use to execute. So it's still on the books in Ohio, and they are still using it. They're just not executing, executing right now. So that should put that all in a box for you. When Dr. McKee was marched into an Illinois courtroom today, this was the outfit. You know, I'm sure that a vascular surgeon makes a lot of money, and this is not what he's used to wearing, but it's the old yellow jail jumpsuit that this county gives to their inmates. And they took no risks with somebody this high profile charged with two of the most serious crimes you can be charged with in this country, you know, aggravated murder. He was shackled. He was shackled at the hands. Those hands were shackled to his tummy. And that tummy chain went all the way around his back. Here's my assumption, although I couldn't see it from the camera angle, he was probably in leg irons as well. He seemed to be shuffling along, and that's usually indicative of leg irons. Although, honestly, some people shuffle, and I say that because I still want to know if it was Dr. McKee they're going to allege was the hulking figure in the back alley skulking along after the murders. Because there's a definite shuffle gate to the person who's walking in the back alley. And you cannot compare it to the courtroom, because if you're wearing, you know, leg irons, you're. You're not walking like you normally would walk. But incidentally, let's just get to the meat and potatoes of this hearing. It was really short. Like, way shorter than I thought. I thought we might hear some details, probable cause, something to keep him held, even if it's not in the place where he's going to be held, because he's going to be extradited. But he didn't even enter a plea. And this was interesting. He agreed not to fight extradition, which means he's not fighting the transfer back to Columbus, Ohio. I see that sometimes. Not often. I often see waving extradition, but sometimes I see them fight it. I never know why, because it's going to happen. It's just a matter of time. So it's just if the Jail's really cushy and nice, and you don't want to go to a yucky one in Columbus. But how do you know? You're a vascular surgeon. How could you possibly know the difference, you know, in jail life. But sometimes attorneys will be wise about that, and that might be the reason to fight extradition. Anyway. He's not. He's not fighting extradition. In fact, the only thing that Dr. McKee muttered in court today was his name. Name. So just have a look. Present in custody. Your name is Michael McKe.
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Have you had a chance to speak with.
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Yes, sir. Earlier on my News Nation show, Banfield, I talked to News Nation correspondent Alex Capriello. He was inside that courtroom. He was lucky enough to get in there. And here's my conversation with Alex. Okay, just walk me through that very quick appearance. And then everything that's outside of the camera view. Alex.
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A
Yeah, super interesting to actually be there in person. Obviously, this was the first time Michael McKee made an appearance in front of a judge, and therefore the first time that we could lay eyes on him other than the mugshot that was posted in Winnebago County Sheriff's Office. Actually, the first thing I noticed is something that you alluded to in your intro there, which was his size. He seemed huge to me. According to the records from the booking, he's 6 foot 1, 200 pounds. And he looks every single bit of it. I think maybe even the yellow jumpsuit with that deep V neck makes him look even more hulking. But overall, his personality, his behavior was kind of the opposite of that. He seemed rather timid. He seemed shy. Obviously, he didn't speak all that much other than saying his name. But really very little eye contact, very little emotion coming out of him overall. So while today was not a plea hearing, obviously we heard from that public defender that was appointed to him that he intends to plead not guilty when he does get to Ohio. He recognizes that the easiest and fastest way to move forward for everybody, for himself as defendant, for the people in Winnebago county, for the people in Franklin county, is to waive extradition. So that's what this was all about today. He did not put up a fight. He signed the paperwork. He was out in about 1 minute and 34 seconds by my stopwatch. So you're right. A very, very quick hearing today.
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B
I've heard that this whole extradition process can take under a week. They can even expedite it if the sheriffs agree to all the logistics of getting him from one place to the Other. So we may see him in a different color in the coming days when he gets to Columbus. But you know what I'm really curious about, Alex? A guy like this who is a vascular surgeon and I don't think I have not seen anywhere that he has a wife or children or a family to support. He's just making good money as a vascular surgeon and presumably banking it for years. He's got enough money for a big expensive lawyer. Understandably, this isn't the jurisdiction. So the public defenders showed up, but did they say anything in this hearing about judge, there's going to be another lawyer on the docket soon?
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A
I didn't catch any of that. I didn't put it in my notes. And I listen pretty hard when I'm inside any sort of criminal courtroom. I asked the court administrator about who that was representing and that was an executive public defender, so to speak, for Winnebago county that was just there to handle sort of the logistics of what was happening and at least to make contact with the defendant, make sure he understood his constitutional rights and so on and so forth. But I think you bring up a great point in terms of actually retaining counsel because this is a very high profile surgeon who had a well paying job and presumably had been doing that for years.
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B
I just keep looking at that mugshot and thinking it's not the same person in the wedding pictures who, you know, Motepi married. It's just so alarming. But I'm sure we'll learn more. Alex Capriello, great work. Thank you for this. As I mentioned, Dr. Michael McKee worked in Rockford, Illinois, but he lived in Chicago, about 80 miles away. He was arrested in Rockford, but his very fancy apartment was in Chicago. Man, this guy lived really well. He lived in a vintage Lincoln park high rise, complete with a doorman and a rooftop pool and a stunning view of Lake Michigan. Like, the building alone has a great view of the lake, but Dr. McKee's apartment, boom. Almost look like you're looking out on the Caribbean. I know, don't laugh. Like Michigan is not the Caribbean. But you know, the real estate pictures make his view from his actual apartment just look so, so beautiful. The water is like crystal blue. There you go. Needless to say, the neighbors in this beautiful building are dumbfounded shocked. Like they can't believe they are hearing of this kind of an arrest of one of their neighbors. And earlier on my NewsNation show, I talked to one of those neighbors. Gerald Kolarik lives in Dr. McKee's building two floors down. And she spoke to him many times before he ended up being arrested for a double murder. Here's my conversation with her.
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Geralyn, thank you so much for being on the program. I just wanted to get your first reaction to hearing that this neighbor of yours who you'd spoken with and thought was delightful has been arrested on two aggravated murders.
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E
Yeah, it's, it's, it's really was a shock to the building and everything because I met him really once. We really talked at the poolside. And that was during the summer, shortly after he moved in. And we talked at the pool and he was very friendly. We were all barbecuing at that time. And he did not seem like somebody that would be doing something like this. But like Ashley, like you point out, you don't know what is in a person's mind, what they're obsessing about and what they're going through in their mind and what causes them to react like this. But I would see him and we would pass each other. I saw him last week to going by and, you know, we would just say, hi, how are you? Hi. And that's it. We never really spoke after that. He was kind of a quiet person to himself. But, you know, it is shocking that a resident of this building was charged with such a terrible crime.
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B
And residents, I can't imagine. Can I ask you, how did you all even find out? Like, how did the news sort of spread through the building?
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E
Well, I found out because There was Channel 7 crew that was outside there of our building trying to talk to residents. And I walked up to them because I used to work at Channel 7 in Chicago. I was assignment editor. And I said, what's happening over here? What's going on? The doorman says, you wanted to talk with me? And they told me about what was happening. And when they said, Michael, Mickey, I said, well, I don't know if I know him. Show me a picture. And then they showed me the picture and I went, oh my gosh, I know him. He's one of my neighbors. He was two stories above me in the Building here. And I said, why, my goodness. I just. It was unbelievable that this man who was just. He was just so nice when I talked to him. And then, as I said, we would pass each other. This is a building of a lot of professional people. Okay. And people that come in.
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B
Speaking of that, I want to just. Sorry to interrupt. Geralyn, sorry to interrupt, but I want to let our viewers know that when you say it's a building of professional people, that includes you. Not only did you work at Channel 7 as an assignment editor, you're also a true crime author. So tell the audience what you did to take a peek two floors up where he lived and what you saw.
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E
Well, I went upstairs and I saw a police officer stand sitting right in front of his door, guarding his place there. And I took a little video. I guess it's a newswoman in me. And I also took a picture of what his apartment looked like from the outside. And I just was surprised that there's a police officer on duty there 24 hours. And then I came up the next day, and there, Lord and behold, I saw that there were now investigators there. And I went to get my car in the garage, and there was an investigation van saying crime lab from Columbus. So that is something else that I videotaped right away, and the investigators going to the van. And when I went upstairs, I saw that they were taking boxes of stuff out of there and putting it in there. They had one box, and they were putting stuff in there. You know what? It's a very circumstantial evidence thing. You have the digital stuff and so on, but you don't have the firing gun. You know what I mean? That's something that they're looking for, and I'm sure that they're also looking for any messages.
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B
You'll be fascinated.
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E
Drawings and things like that.
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B
We're about to do a deep dive with investigators who do this for a living, who are gonna run down the list of everything they probably looked for in that apartment and seized, as well as other places as well. But I'd like to just ask you, in retrospect, you know, we all look back at things and people when we learn something that's jarring, and then we think, okay, that now, in retrospect, it's unusual. Was there anything about Dr. Michael McKee that was the least bit unusual or struck you as unusual in retrospect?
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E
No, nothing struck me as being unusual. He was a business person coming in. We pass in the hallway. We'd be in the elevator, and I'd say hi, and he'd say hi. We were all tired from working and everything like that. But, you know, the building put out a memo to all the residents, and this is a memo, and it says, good afternoon, residents. Due to an active police investigation involving a resident, evidence you may see encounter law enforcement officials in and around the building over the next few days. Now, that is what alarmed a lot of residents to what was happening.
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B
Yeah, I can imagine.
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E
That was.
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B
I'm sorry, Geralyn. I'm sorry that. I was just going to say I'm sorry that you and all of these residents sort of have come, you know, within arm's length of this very tragic story in Columbus. But I'm really appreciative for your, you know, first of all, your spidey sense is to go upstairs and take a look. But also, thanks for your perspective and your information about your neighbor. I do appreciate this tonight.
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E
Thank you, Ashley. Thank you for having me on as a guest. I appreciate it. Thank you.
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B
So I just want to quickly apologize. Sometimes there's overspeak and it looks like I'm interrupting a guest. But when you're on live tv, there's a delay, and so sometimes I'll jump in on a pause and it just. They don't hear the pause and we're talking over each other until one of us can just take it and run. So sometimes I'll just keep going just to avoid that. No, you go. No, you go. No, you go. Moment. So, anyway, my apologies if it felt like I was interrupting her, but it stands to reason that a suspect's digital footprint is almost always much, much bigger and more conclusive than his or her actual footprint, especially if an actual footprint is left behind at the murder scene. And you would think that somebody working towards a doctorate in criminology would certainly know that. Yes, Brian Coburger turned off his phone while killing four college students in Moscow, Idaho. But his phone pinged at that home 23 different times. @ the murder scene in the weeks leading up to the killings, he incidentally, also stepped in blood with his shoe print. And, you know, the size of the shoe was able to be determined by investigators. So there's another one. Right. But what are phones and cameras and watches and gps? What are all those things going to tell the police in Ohio about the murders that are now linked to an Illinois surgeon? I talked to somebody on my News Nation show who knows all about this. Jennifer Coffendoffer is a retired FBI special agent, and she's been doing some googling of her own and found some pretty interesting info. Here's our conversation last week, Jen, you, you joined me on the show and you found that there was an inordinate spike in Google searches for the couple's home. And now before the murders. And now you have found even more Google searches before the murders and after the murders. So what have you found that's new? Before the.
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F
Murders? Right before the murders, Dr. Tepe, he was actually Google searched as well in an inordinate amount of time. In other words, everyone's flatlined. And then all of a sudden he split spikes in November, November 30th. So that tells me that somebody was really looking into what he was.
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B
Doing. What about the after murder searches? What did you find? Has spiked after the.
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F
Murders. So after the murders and immediately after the murders, Michael McKee spiked. Now that makes some sense, right? People thought that that could be him, but it contained continued to spike throughout. And when we look at Bryan Kohberger, it's just such a mirror image of his spike pattern. Of course, that was in a timeframe five weeks before anyone ever knew his name. I just found it very interesting. Was Michael McKee worried that people were looking at him and so he was checking social media and so on.
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B
Because it wasn't you and me. None of us actually had any idea that Motepi had been married, you know, a decade prior. And so we weren't googling the name Dr. Michael McKee. Nobody in the true crime community really was doing that. So that is a fascinating find. Let me ask you this. The cops have put out the exact time that Mo and Spencer Tepe were murdered. And it's 3:52am how would they know the exact.
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F
Minute? Well, I think that that's going to be based on the visual evidence from videotape that they have going in and coming out. So I think that's how they have the precise time. It could also be from his cell phone. Now this is what I find interesting though is they would have geofenced this property right away. And I don't understand why they wouldn't have had his name prior to that unless actually he had a burner phone. And if he did, that makes sense to me that they have a precise.
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B
Time. Here's what I'm thinking. It could be also a fitness tracker on any of the three of them because the spike in the blood pressure and the heart rate at the time of the killings for all of them would have been through the roof. And so if any of them was wearing an OURA ring, or an Apple watch or anything like that that could have shown. Or maybe there's just video somewhere that registered gunshots or sounds of gunshots. I have to leave it there because there's just so much, much information. Will you come back this week.
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F
Jen? Yeah, absolutely, Ashley. Thanks for having.
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B
Me. So to help make sense of all of this and to get a clearer read on what is happening on the ground in Ohio, I sat down with someone who knows this case, who knows this state, and who knows this system inside and out. Angenette Levy is the host of Crime Fix on Law and Crime, and she also has her own YouTube channel under her name, Angenette Levy. She's an Ohio native. And since this story broke, people who know this case and people in this community have been reaching out to Ann Jeanette and sharing what they're hearing and what they're seeing as this case unfolds. What you're about to hear, I think, is a thoughtful and insightful conversation about two people who know the business of crime, crime fighting and investigations and prosecutions. And I think that you're going to get a lot out of this. All of Angenette's links are also in the description of this episode. And let me just tell you, Angenette's got info from the inside. Like, she knows for a fact that this marriage was not good. Angenette, it's so great to have you on drop dead serious. Thank you for this. I appreciate it. I wanted to get your reaction. I mean, you're local. This is your neck of the woods. What was your reaction to hearing about this.
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G
Arrest? You know, I wasn't surprised that Michael McKee was actually arrested after some information I received late Friday night. I was surprised that it happened the day that it did because I was kind of hearing through the grapevine that it might take a while. So when it happened, and I got a tip that it happened on Saturday, I was shocked. I was like, whoa. I wasn't shocked that it was him. I was shocked at the.
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B
Timing. So pull on that thread. Pull on that thread a little about. It might take a while. Like, how did you sort of know that they might be going in that.
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G
Direction? I had just heard some rumblings, you know, late Friday night that maybe there was some testing or, you know, you know, how these investigations unfold, you know, especially these days. There's digital, you know, evidence. There are all kinds of things that they gather. And I wasn't getting something super concrete about whether it was ballistics, whether it was just digital, a combination of Both, but there was something, something going on and that, and that maybe it was going to take some time, that it wasn't going to be immediate. And then boom. You know, I was literally driving home from the pharmacy and I couldn't believe it. I was like, whoa. I was not expecting that. So the name I was not surprised by based on what I had, because earlier in the week I had heard, you know, I had heard a lot of things. You know, I've covered crime in Ohio for many years. I worked in local news, covering crime mostly in politics a great deal. So I know a lot of people had received quite a few phone calls and some other messages and things like that. So, you know, people were reaching out and I had heard different things all week long. So, you know, this was not. The name was not surprising. The timing was.
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B
Surprising. What's, you know, just a little inside baseball here for everybody who's watching or listening. We get stuck stuff all the time. We see stuff all the time. Stuff crosses our desks. The rumblings, the rumors. And there's a bar that has to be reached before you broadcast that or before you pop that out on the podcasts or start talking about it publicly. And that can take a lot of time and it can take. And sometimes you can never release it because you just can't get an official confirmation, even though you've heard it through the grapevine, even though you've got one source that's pretty good. It's just tricky. And so that's why when you see things like web sleuths and all the online chatter, they're a good start, but they're not, they're not the end. And obviously, you know, these things are starting to come, you know, into fruition. You worried about a gag order in this.
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G
Case? It depends on the defense attorney. We don't know who his defense attorney is going to be yet when he gets to Columbus. Let's hope this is a guy possibly of some means who could pay for an experienced defense attorney in Columbus, Ohio. And there are quite a few who are used to high profile cases who I don't believe would ask for a gag order in a case like.
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B
This. Why? Wait, stop there. Any defense attorney, no matter how high profile you are, wants to keep things out of the press. Why? Why do you think these guys.
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G
Wouldn'T? Well, I'm not saying they're going to be on the courthouse steps, you know, leaking and, you know, granting press conferences and ranting, but there are, are some defense attorney maybe sometimes are more willing to share and more willing to, you know, cooperate with the press than others. And I've had that experience over the years. And then you come off something like Idaho, where you get nothing. I mean, it's like shut it all down immediately. Which I think is the wrong way to handle a high profile.
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B
Case.
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G
So. And I can say that based on going back 20 years of covering high profile cases, it's. It's.
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B
Not.
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G
38. Deal with it, you know. Yeah, 38, same experience. It's not the right way to deal with.
- [34:05]
B
It. My first big high profile case was in Canada and it was, it was committed in the late 80s, early 90s. The, the committing of the crime and the prosecution, the investigation, all the rest. And the Canadians thought that the right idea was to completely shut all coverage down.0. Canadians were not allowed to know anything about the case at all. Americans, on the other hand, were allowed. So I worked in a newsroom where I had to ask my friends in the US to fax me newspaper headlines on the case. It was crazy. Even when it was in court, by the way, even when it was in court, we were banned across Canada from releasing any of the details in court. That's why the Americans would sit in court and then go and report. It was nuts. I mean, so, yeah, I got a long hit PTSD about gag orders.
- [34:52]
G
Going back to when I was a kid. I am not a fan of gag orders at all. And I have a little bit of that PTSD going, going back to the first big case I covered back in 2005-2007 in Wisconsin. It drives me insane. Sealed documents drives me insane. The whole thing, you know, closing court hearings drives me insane. So it very much gets my, you know, I get very uptight about.
- [35:18]
B
It. There's a puritanical way of looking at this too. Right. It's not just because, oh, you know, we got a dog in the fight. We're journalists and this is our lifeblood. It's really, for me, anyway, it's about countries where I've been where, where justice is hooded. I mean, I was in Iraq right before Saddam and they were throwing black bags over people's heads and throwing them in a gulag and no one would ever see them again and there'd never be a question about it and no one you could ask. And so that's the direct antithesis of what we do. But there's a slow slide into secret justice. And so I'm very, very mindful of.
- [35:50]
G
It. Yeah. And I think that when the public can see the process and they can see how it unfolds, especially when cameras are in there. And they can, and they have access. They can log on and they can actually see the proceedings on the Internet these days. They don't have to traipse on down to the courthouse and hope to get a seat. You can log on and watch it. You don't have to go to the television even. You can watch it on your phone. You can see what's going on. It's transparency and I think that's just better. Makes us better for everybody involved and it's. And it keeps people from, you know, spinning into, you know, conspiracy theories and going down rabbit holes in the whole nine yards. I mean, you're always going to have a little bit of that no matter what. But I think you have to always err on the side of.
- [36:40]
B
Transparency. Yeah, it makes us better citizens if we're involved in the process and if you keep us out, that just a dumb citizenry doesn't help anybody. Let me go to a couple things that I want to talk to you about and I'm going to just preface our conversation by we don't have absolute confirmation on a lot of this stuff. Some of this stuff we'll be referencing as chatter, as rumor, as discussions, as background, as things I've heard. I can't say things like that. But the family and their reaction to the arrest of Dr.
- [37:09]
D
McKee. Tired of juggling sales tools or spending hours on prospecting just to book a few meetings. Meet Apollo, the go to market platform for finding leads, connecting with buyers and closing deals all in one place. Apollo gives you access to over 210 million contacts and AI that handles all your busywork finding leads, drafting emails and even prioritizing your day. So stop paying for five different sales tools when one does it all. Visit Apollo I.O. and sign up free.
- [37:38]
B
Today. I had, you know, a brother in law on the air a week ago and asked specifically, do you have any idea who may be behind this or may have wanted the. The Tepes dead? And his answer was interesting. I thought it was definitive. But looking back, I think there's more nuance to it. Rob, do you or your family members have any idea who might have been capable of doing this? Did your family have any enemies? Did Spencer and Monique have any enemies at all that are.
- [38:10]
H
Known? Not, you know, not that I can speak on or know of. I know that they've had this massive community around him that they were, they were just so well liked and admired by everyone. You can see in this picture that's kind of defines them. They were always smiling. They were always laughing. So it's really just unbelievable and shocking to all of us when we found out. I still. A week later, it doesn't. Still doesn't feel real. I can't believe I'm, like, here talking about.
- [38:45]
B
This. So given that answer, do you think there's. Do you think that the family, the families of Mo and Spencer may have had an inkling about Dr. McKee before the.
- [38:56]
G
Arrest? I think it's very possible. I think that these are people who were in a state of shock as this was unfolding, but also may have had their suspicions. You know, I think that obviously Mo, Monique, she got out of this marriage very quickly. I mean, she had dated McKee for a couple of years before they got married. They started dating in 2012, got married in August of 2015. You know, they separate, like, months later. So seven months later or so. And then the divorce is not, you know, filed until 2017. So I. So it's very possible, I think, that they may have had some suspicions, but they weren't going to broadcast. That makes.
- [39:48]
B
Sense. That makes sense. Nobody wants to, you know, point the finger at somebody for a double murder if they're just, you know, wondering if it's an ex. But I didn't even know that she had an ex husband at the time. Like, it came out very late that she had this ex husband. And I'm sort of curious about what, you know, about their breakup, because on paper, it doesn't look so bad. It's just feel. It just looks as though they had a, you know, an uncontentious divorce. They separated the assets and. And that's that. But there's chatter that suggests otherwise.
- [40:22]
G
And. And I've heard some chatter that, you know, there was. It was not a good marriage. That's what I've heard, that she was not happy. They were living in Virginia for a time, and she. She was not happy in the marriage. He may not have been kind to her in some respects, and that's kind of what I've been hearing some chatter about. And there was a reason that she wanted out of that marriage, and he did not want the marriage to end. I can say safely say that that's why this took so long. And she, you know, they got a private judge that usually expedites the process. But keep in mind, the separation happened in 2016. And, you know, the documents weren't filed until.
- [41:14]
B
2017. Yeah. Like 14 months later, the, you know, the divorce is. Is finalized. But so interesting that we know Definitively, he didn't want this to end. She wanted out. That's the dynamic of the end of the.
- [41:28]
G
Relationship. That's what I've. That's what I've.
- [41:31]
B
Learned. Okay. There's also chatter. And again, it's chatter. There's, you know, nothing to back this up officially from the police or from family at this point. But I'm just wondering if you've heard the same thing or if you're seeing any evidence to back this up that she may have been in fear of him and may have lived with her parents for a time, and that her parents may have had to step in and help in, you know, actualizing this.
- [41:58]
G
Divorce. I don't know about the living with the parents part, but, you know, I've heard some. I've heard some reliable information that they may have helped her get out of Virginia, where she was living with him, and get her so she could get back to.
- [42:17]
B
Ohio. Well, it'll all, at some point, make sense, and I'm sure a lot of these pieces and narrative will evolve, but it would make sense completely, given what's happened. If Dr. McKee is guilty. I mean, all of that would make perfect sense. Right? It would just fit the. It would fit the narrative. Let's talk a little bit about what police would have done right after they discovered these two dead bodies. Clearly, they would have a handle on the fact that she had a prior husband. And it would stand to reason that any detective worth his or her weight and salt would call that X within hours. What do you expect happened.
- [43:00]
G
Here? Oh, I'm sure. I don't know if it was within hours, but I think that they probably spoke with McKee, with Dr. McKee, and I think they were given a story and an alibi. And it's my understanding that alibi did not hold up under scrutiny. And so you know how these things go, Ashley. Somebody says they're in one place, but these days, no matter what you do, they can still figure things.
- [43:33]
B
Out. Well, holy cow. I mean, I just cannot wait to hear that conversation or to see a transcript of what might have transpired between police detectives and Dr. McKee on their very first encounter. Because so much of what might have been said will be locked. Right? That's going to be locked in. And then any evidence that doesn't fit. I mean, a defense attorney's gonna be stuck. You know, this is what you said to the cops on day one. Now, I can't say you've never been in the house or, you know, let's just Say, no, I've never been there. If Mike McKee said, I've never been to that house, I've never stepped foot in that house. And suddenly he's got DNA in the house now, there's no way to explain it away. And if he'd never said that to the police, he could have a story where I stopped by and I gave him Christmas presents or I stopped by to meet the kids. And that was a while ago. So, sure, my DNA's in the house. I mean, these are the kinds of things that I'm dying to hear. Or what was the first story given? And was there a second story given upon.
- [44:30]
G
Arrest? Well, and I don't know that there was a story given upon arrest, because I think you have to keep in mind, you know, these documents. The complaint was filed, if you look at it, at 10:57am in Ohio. He was booked into the jail in Winnebago county in Illinois, I think shortly after noon. So there's an hour time difference. I don't think there was any time for much more of a chat. And so in court, they said that he had, you know, he, they were invoking his right to remain silent again. So I'm assuming he didn't give another statement. I don't know that for certain. But, you know, it's my understanding that he gave an alibi. It didn't hold up once they started kind of really looking at things. And, you know, if you say you're in Illinois and then they are able to determine that, hey, you were actually in Ohio, hundreds of miles away. That's a big problem. You have some explaining to.
- [45:32]
B
Do. So many ways that can be determined too, right, Angenette? So we, we've got your Fitbit, Apple Watch, whatever, your Waze, your Google Maps. Everything is taking you on this journey. Your gas that you had to fill up because it's 12 hours of driving, your toll tag, your GPS on your car, your phone, anything like that. So there's so many things that can, you know that a learned person you think would know. But like you said, when it's your first rodeo, you might not think of all these things. This is usually what trips up smart people. Even Coburger, as a criminologist, screwed.
- [46:07]
G
Up. Well, and let's keep in mind too, you know, the thing that keeps getting me in the complaint or the affidavit, I should say, which, you know, is pretty bare bones. That's kind of how they do it in Ohio. You know, they, they sometimes you'll get something a Little longer, you know, But a lot of times in Ohio, you just get maybe like a page. So we got two paragraphs in the. In the murder one. We don't have the aggravated murder one yet because they did bump up the charges on Sunday, but that remains sealed until he gets.
- [46:38]
B
Here. And by the way, isn't that just because it's a burglary? I mean, just. They really only have to add the burglary to get to.
- [46:44]
G
Aggravated. Well, no, they could. It could be that, but also, you know, there's. There's more than one person involved in this, so sometimes that's it. But it's also the premeditation part of that in Ohio. Premeditation. You know, if you look at the charge, there are a number of different aggravating factors in the state of Ohio, and it can be prior calculation and design. That can be part of.
- [47:11]
E
It.
- [47:11]
G
So. So I think the premeditation is part of.
- [47:13]
B
It. Well, that would tell you they've got something that has him planning the trip and making the trip and fueling up or digitally registering along the way that he's making this very long.
- [47:24]
G
Journey. But they said in the probable cause affidavit that they linked him through video surveillance and the vehicle. And so I'm thinking to myself, did they ping him through license plate readers all the way from Columbus to Illinois? I don't know that, but that's one of my.
- [47:43]
B
Thoughts. Toll tags. Toll tags and license plate readers are all on these. I80. Somebody mentioned I80 is the big. I might be wrong, it might be i81, but my viewers can definitely make a comment and tell me which one it is. But these are the kinds of things that people don't think. Melanie McGuire mostly was sunk by her toll tag. You know, it's just a simple thing you don't think about in your car that tells everybody where you've.
- [48:07]
G
Been. Most definitely. And I mean, it could be any number of things. We don't know what kind of vehicle they're claiming he drove, but the video surveillance could be enough. You know, the one piece of video that they put out was pretty. I mean, it was. It wasn't great. Right. If you know the guy, you might recognize his gait, but he's got a hood on, he's got jeans. He's just kind of walking, you know. You know, the road looks a little, like it could be a little snowy and.
- [48:38]
B
Icy. Doesn't look 6 foot 1, 200 pounds to me. The guy skulking through the alley, you.
- [48:45]
G
Know? Yeah, no, not Necessarily, but, you know, you know how video can be deceiving. But yeah, he. It's a weird. It's a weird piece of video. But I'm wondering if they have more. You just don't. We don't know what. They have all kinds of.
- [49:02]
B
Things. I guarantee they have more. That house next door, if you're looking straight on at the Tepe house, the house to the left, the white one on the corner of 8th and 4th forth, it has 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 cameras that are just visible. You know, one on the front, two on the side, two on the garage facing into the alley. And then there's that camera on the street that is like a house away from them on the corner with four cameras and views all around. So that I'm pretty sure that there's a hell of a lot of video. I think the police actually said something about it because Jennifer Coffendoffer, with the FBI, formerly with the FBI, was upset that the FBI hadn't been brought in because the police made a comment that they were overwhelmed with video that they had to go through. I'm like, yeah, that happens with all the ring cams and the Tesla's cams that are out there and everybody's own personal cams, you.
- [49:53]
G
Know. Well, if the guy has a Tesla, I'll be very interested in that because Teslas have video.
- [50:02]
B
Cameras. Listen, I'm not even talking about him having a Tesla. I'm talking about a Tesla that had been parked near him. Teslas will actually pick people up if they go past the car because there's. There are all these exterior camera. I have a Tesla. And it's crazy. There's cameras all around the car that'll register people if they, you know, if they come close to you. So it has to be a feature that's turned on, but a lot of cars have it on. So his driving a Tesla would be chef's kiss of evidence. But. But just a Tesla that might have been parked in the vicinity also might have recorded. I mean, literally, you cannot commit murder these days. You cannot. You're just never going to get away with.
- [50:42]
G
It. Well, and no, I don't think you can at all. And somebody who, you know, he's innocent until proven guilty. But let's say he's indeed the guy. I mean, come on, man. I mean, he may be a surgeon who. If he's indeed the guy and he did it, he may be a surgeon who thinks he's really smart and he could do this and get away with it. Or maybe he didn't care anymore. Maybe it was worth the risk to him. We just don't know what's going on with it. We don't.
- [51:17]
B
Know. Yeah, I hadn't contemplated. The devil may care. I don't. You know, who cares? Let me ask you one other question. That's another unconfirmed report, but upstairs setting nonetheless, and that is that the killer may have taken steps inside the house to ensure that the children were not exposed to the aftermath. Do you hear anything about.
- [51:36]
G
That? I have heard that and I've heard that from a couple of different sources that there were some steps taken, whether that meant putting them in a bedroom or locking their door, or locking a door to keep the children from seeing what had happened to their parents. And I, you know, I feel for that family. I know they're. I know for a fact they are relieved. They are relieved by this arrest. But there are two children now who are going to be left without their parents and their lives are going to never be the same. And that's just heartbreaking to.
- [52:27]
B
Me. I don't understand. Like, I'd love to get into the mind of the killer who decides it's okay to orphan these kids, but I'm gonna be extra nice and make sure they don't see the.
- [52:38]
G
Blood.
- [52:38]
B
Right? Like, it's just. Seeing the blood, to me is the least of the damage that you've done. You know what I mean? I just can't quite get. I can't quite compute what somebody's thinking when they're pumping bullets into defenseless parents and then thinking, oh, I better be the better guy and make sure I, you know, close the.
- [53:01]
G
Seam. You know, it's completely. There's no logic. I mean, there's logic, but there isn't any because you've just done something to upend their lives forever. So it's like, do you feel this makes you nice? I mean, it's.
- [53:21]
B
Sick. Do you remember John Evander Coohy? He killed Jessica Lunsford and he buried her alive in his backyard down in Florida. And in. In his invest. In his interrogation, much of which was cut out because he had said, I think I need a lawyer or something. He said, well, I put her in the backyard and I put her in the garbage bags and I put her in the hole and then I covered her all up. And they said, was she alive? And he said, well, yeah, but I gave her her dolphin. I mean, I'm not a monster or anything. He truly, in his head, believed that he'd given her the dolphin to take into the live burial, you know, so that made him a good guy. And that's kind of the flash I have on this one. It's like, isn't that kind of you, that you'd protect the children from the aftermath of your.
- [54:08]
G
Horror? I don't know if it's some weird balancing act that a person like this would do in their head, some sick justification, or makes them feel like they did something good. I don't know. There's nothing good about this. It's all.
- [54:28]
B
Evil. Do you have any idea how he got.
- [54:32]
G
In? I don't. And I'm kind of. I'm very much wondering that how on earth. If there's no. If there are no signs of forced entry, we're here. We're hearing nothing about a door open other than the fact that the friends got in. So we don't know if the door somehow was unlocked and left unlocked or if the children by chance let people in. We. We don't know. I haven't heard anything about that, but that's one of my big.
- [55:00]
B
Questions. So I had a theory, and. I don't know, I thought it was a crazy theory at first, but the more I think of it, I've seen a lot in 38 years, right? Pretty. Pretty awful stuff. And I wondered if he rang the bell in the middle of the night and they went downstairs and she sees it's someone she knows, and it's like, what's going on? He goes, I need your help. I need your help. I need your help. And she opens the door and he's in. And I thought, that's a possible. That's a possible way of entry. But then my mind went to. And then he just psychologically tortured.
- [55:32]
G
Them.
- [55:32]
B
If. If he's guilty. Again, this is. He's innocent till proven guilty. But. But that would be something that I could see. Anyone who's capable of orphaning two babies in the presence of their parents and taking the lives of two parents in this way is twisted enough to toy with his victims.
- [55:51]
G
Beforehand. I mean, it's. It's quite possible, but from what I'm hearing, I just don't think I would. I don't think that she would answer the door for.
- [56:03]
B
Him. Or maybe.
- [56:05]
G
Spencer. I guess that's possible. I really don't. I don't know. I guess that. I guess that's a possibility. But we're talking 3:52am you know, that's what it says on the complaint. They believe that this offense happened at 3:52am and he apparently was an early riser because he had to be at work, you know, somewhat, I guess the dental office opened at 8, so he had to be at work, you know, before then to get ready for patients and things like.
- [56:37]
E
That.
- [56:37]
G
So. And that was a more, you know, a little more than an hour's.
- [56:40]
B
Drive. And these are the holidays, so he might have been.
- [56:43]
G
Off. No, he had. He had to be at work because they call the family. That's who called. Because he didn't show up for.
- [56:51]
B
Work. Oh, I thought you were talking about Dr. McKee having to go to work. If he's the killer, and he had to drive another six hours to get back to work in time from 3:52am he'd have been.
- [57:00]
G
Late. No, I'm just saying, like, you know, Spencer, you know, if the offense happened at 3:52am and somebody's, you know, ringing the doorbell and he's an early riser, I mean, I don't think he got up at 3:52am for work. I guess that's possible he was up that early, but I'm not sure. But I mean, that's. That would. It seems like that would be unusual. Unless you're forced to open the door at gunpoint. That's also a possibility. Or if you open the door and there's a gun and you open.
- [57:32]
B
The door and there's a gun, which, I mean, you never know. You never know what people will do. I would never open a door, period. No matter what, no matter how much somebody might be asking for help. I'd call 911 and I'd tell them I'm calling 911.
- [57:43]
G
But. And I also think that would just wake the whole house up, you know, with even the dog there. If it's like a doodle dog or what have you still, you know, dog's gonna wake up if somebody's ringing the doorbell or knocking on the door. I would think.
- [57:58]
B
Yeah. So the basement window, I come back to the backyard has this basement window. And when you got kids, as I will attest, I locked every window every single night. You know, I locked it every chance I got. I would. I would check. But on occasion, it would get away from me one day and I'd notice the next day, how is this window unlocked? You know, like kids do the darndest things. And that's. It just made me wonder if maybe, just maybe the basement window was unlocked. And then it's not necessarily a forced entry, or at least there's no sign of a forced entry. If someone can get in through the basement.
- [58:32]
G
Window. And maybe that's a possibility too. I really don't know. But I, I don't know. It's, it's weird. They, you know, they always say no sign of forced entry. That doesn't mean that somebody doesn't somehow just get in, you know, that they can't be some sort of burglar, if you will. I mean, if you're willing to do something as awful as this, what else are you willing to do? Are you willing to train yourself to become some type of burglar that can get into a house?
- [59:06]
B
Maybe. Well, maybe there's software purchases, you know, to hack a security code. Maybe he was able to, again, he's innocent until proven guilty, but if he's the guy, maybe he was able to hack her emails or pretend to be someone in an email and get the code. I don't know. I mean there's all sorts of like weird things that people will.
- [59:26]
G
Do. It's possible. But I'm interested in how they were able to nail down the 3:52am Whether that was an Apple watch, whether that was something with the, you know, the opening of the door on the house, you know, because they, it looks like they have one of those keypads on their front.
- [59:41]
B
Door. Lindsay, my producer, brought up something really smart and that is that a 17 month old and a 4 year old might have baby monitors in their, in their rooms and those often have video and sometimes they're recorded so you can watch overnight what happened, you know, so that's entirely possible as.
- [59:57]
G
Well. That is possible, I guess if you could hack into the WI Fi and maybe if you, I don't know, if you were married to somebody, maybe you could, you knew their things they liked for their passwords or something. Who knows, which is really.
- [60:12]
B
Scary. I'm also saying that police would look, I'm, I'm thinking police might look.
- [60:17]
G
At the, oh, at the baby.
- [60:18]
B
Monitors. At the baby monitors in order to get the. So I'll let you comment again on that. But about the baby. They had baby monitors, you know, potentially that, that would have recorded this.
- [60:27]
G
Stuff. Possibly they had, you know, if they had baby monitors, that's very possible. Or maybe they had an Alexa or you know, something like that. I've seen cases where Alexas pick up noise and sounds. Those things are always listening. Also, we don't know if they had video cameras inside their home. You know, my, my house has cameras in it all over the place and on the outside. So, you know, these days people have cameras.
- [60:58]
B
Everywhere. I have cameras everywhere as well, and they're all motion.
- [61:02]
G
Trigger.
- [61:03]
B
Yep. And they all record and we.
- [61:05]
G
Can access them on our.
- [61:06]
B
Phones. Is there anything I haven't touched that you want to talk.
- [61:10]
G
About? No, I just, my hearts really go out to the family. It's just really awful. And I think they just need to nail down how, how he got into that house. And, and they may already know that. They, I think they're just. There's a lot. They've, they've held everything close to the vest in this case, and I think they did that for a reason. You know, looking back at the timeline, I think they, they probably had a couple of people they were looking at and maybe that's why they didn't come out with press conferences and stuff like that, because maybe they, they kind of knew the direction they were going in. Maybe they felt like they could eliminate some people and then there were some people maybe that they couldn't quite eliminate right away. And then things came together pretty.
- [61:58]
B
Quickly. Yeah, you're right. I mean, it's heartbreaking all around and where those kids are tonight, imagining how often they're asking when they're going to see mom and dad. It just. I can't even let my mind go there. And Jeanette, thank you. So appreciate.
- [62:11]
G
This. Yeah, thanks for having.
- [62:13]
B
Me. This case is still very much unfolding and we're going to continue to follow in every development as it comes available. And honestly, today it was, it was coming at me so fast I could almost not keep up with the information. And so I want to make sure you're subscribed because I am going to be dropping episodes very quickly and shorts and information and so I don't want you to miss it. Thank you as always for being here. Thank you for supporting this podcast and trusting us with these stories. If you want to stay caught up, make sure you're subscribed on YouTube or your favorite podcast app. And we'll be back with you soon as this case continues to move forward. I'm Ashley Banfield and remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead.
- [62:57]
D
Serious. Tired of juggling sales tools or spending hours on prospecting just to book a few meetings? Meet Apollo, the go to market platform for finding leads, connecting with buyers and closing deals all in one place. Apollo gives you access to over 210 million contacts and AI that handles all your busywork, finding leads, drafting emails, and even prioritizing your day. So stop paying for five different sales tools when one does it all. Visit Apollo I.O. and sign up free.