← Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Shocking New Details: Mystery Car Caught on Cam, Police Plane Tracked Range Rover | Nancy Guthrie
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Start your free trial today. Hey everyone, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is drop dead Serious.
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Welcome.
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It's nice to have you here. Thank you for being here. Also hit subscribe please. It's a real favor to me and I sure appreciate it if you already have. Also appreciate our members. Thank you. It is Thursday, February 26, which means it's 26 days since Nancy Guthrie was taken from her home against her will in Tucson, Arizona. And today some interesting developments developments video more video has emerged. This courtesy of Fox News. Michael Ruiz from Fox Digital dropped bombshell. Not gonna lie, he went far and wide, maybe farther and wider than the sheriff's department did outside of the 2 mile radius from Nancy Guthrie's home. Because sheriff's asked everybody within a two mile radius if they could please check their ring cams. Right Sent out an alert to all of these residents. Please check your doorbell cams, your ring cams, your nest cams, whatever cams you got for any video that you might have recorded. And it's a big window from January 1st to February 1st. But outside that two mile radius they didn't ask those Same questions. So super fascinating. Michael Ruiz went outside and his team went outside the two mile radius. And wouldn't you know it, they found somebody who with video of vehicles that night, early into that morning. Right. The morning of February 1st, when Nancy Guthrie was abducted. And not only did they find, you know, a dozen vehicles driving at night, they found one that was particularly interesting. Let me give you all the details because I for one am astounded that it was Fox that told the sheriff about these videos, not the other way around. It wasn't the sheriff that found these videos because they can't. It's because it's outside of the two mile perimeter. So these, this couple named Elias and Danielle Stratajulius, and I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it right, Stratagelius Stratigiulius. I'm sorry, Elias and Danielle, if I'm wrong, but they told Fox News that they've got these street facing ring cameras, right, that caught 12 different cars that were passing by their house on the morning of the abduction. Why does that matter? Well, specifically it matters because this house is on back roads and the back roads lead directly out of Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood. And more interestingly, these back roads avoid major intersections. So if you're really smart and you're trying to avoid detection and you don't want cameras or license plate readers to see you driving at that time of, of night, you might consider taking back roads. I've watched Brian Enten drive those roads during the day. It is really hard to find your way during the day. You either have to really know that neighborhood well, that giant neighborhood. Right, because we're outside the two mile zone, or you may have had to use a, you know, a little help from say a digital directional app like Waze or Google Maps. Right. So I'm also fascinated to find out at some point if the FBI has been doing that, finding everybody using those maps in that neighborhood at that time. Because if they were using back roads, it's even harder to get around. So this is interesting about the Stratagelius, their report to Fox News, they said that the police have not canvassed their neighborhood in the last 25 days. So Fox, to their credit, let the FBI and the sheriff know they alerted them to this, to this video. It is unclear if the video is significant. It is unclear if the vehicles that are on this video are significant to this crime, to this abduction. But what is really interesting is one of the vehicles in all of the 12 that we're showing you, one of the vehicles was caught on camera at 2:36am on Sunday, February 1st. That time is so important because 2:36am is roughly eight minutes after the sheriff told us on the timeline that Nancy's pacemaker separated from her iPhone. Right. And it's presumed that that's when she was taken far enough away for the Bluetooth for the Bluetooth to separate from the iPhone taken out of the residence. So eight minutes. Now, what's even more significant is that this house is 2.5 miles away and it's roughly a 7 minute drive. These cars matter, like with that kind of a timeline. Again, if you're following me, Nancy's pacemaker separates. Eight minutes later, this vehicle is seen on this camera and it is only roughly a seven minute drive. So however long it might have taken to get Nancy into a vehicle, get her secured, do whatever they had to do, figure out where they were, make that drive, I could see that being perhaps eight minutes. Right. Sounds like it's perfectly within reason to assume that could be that vehicle. Could also be someone coming home late at night. Just coincidentally, it's at 2:36am you know, but I'd love to know how many cars were out driving at that time of night, how many Teslas were out driving at that time of night whose cameras may have captured. I mean, there's Tesla cameras all around a Tesla. And I know because I have one. And you can capture vehicle traffic at that time of night. 2:36am is not a busy time of night. I get it, it's Tucson. There'll be people out driving, but not as many as, say, before 11 at night. Maybe they've got these things. We don't know. The FBI has kept such a tight lid on their investigation. Unlike the sheriff, who's sort of given us a lot of different mixed messages and also taken back some of his messaging. Ms. Stratigoulius said that that number of cars passing, 12 vehicles passing, I think it's between midnight ish and 6am right on her doorbell cam. Not unusual. Not unusual to see roughly a dozen cameras passing. What is unusual to Ms. Trout of Giulia's and to a friend of hers is that no one from law enforcement had visited the neighborhood. But again, let's be really clear, a 2 mile radius is a lot of homes. Maybe not as many as most of us would assume because these are big properties, one to four acres. So maybe not that many homes. But maybe at some point the sheriff and the FBI were planning to expand the radius and ask more people. But I mean, time's a ticking. You know, you don't have forever to capture ring cams. We learned that in the Idaho investigation that some of these businesses, you know, that had been canvassed for their videos to find the white Elantra. It was already gone. Their video was already gone. So time is of the essence if you're going to grab video. I don't know why they decided on a two mile radius. Maybe from the get go, just capture the data and go through it in order. Start in the center of the concentric circle and move out. And maybe eventually you won't have to get to the houses that are outside the 2 mile radius. But now you might be SOL. I mean, luckily Fox was able to get this, but you might be sol. You know what? Out of luck, I'm not supposed to swear. My husband hates it. I know some of you don't mind shit out of luck, okay? And pardon me if that upsets you so, but you might be out of luck if you're now trying to go and canvas all those, those houses in around Danielle and and Eliza's neighborhood. But super great reporting from Fox on this street facing ring cam. So interestingly, Fox actually did a further investigation and what they did was they asked a retired NYPD detective and a national security expert named Pat Brosnan to review the video with them. I tried to do it and I saw a lot of the comments saying, hey, can you slow it down? It's hard to do it on your iPhone. You have to do it on a computer. Even then, the images aren't always super perfect where you can slow it down. But Pat Brosnan, the expert at Fox, conferred with, he seemed to feel that he could assess this 2:36am vehicle. He could assess this 2:36aM vehicle captured on the camera as a Kia Soul. S O U L A Kia Soul based on slanted roof, the design of the windows and the rear quarter glass. He also noted that there are vertical brake lights. Now that is not an official assessment. That's not like we heard from the Idaho. The Moscow police said we're on the lookout for a white Elantra, period. White Elantra, Right. Gave us a range in dates, but white Elantra. This is a retired NYPD detective and a national security expert. So for what it's worth, let's keep our ears open and our eyes open in case we here in the coming days that law enforcement sources are asking or law enforcement authorities are telling us to keep our eyes open for video of a specific vehicle. Till now, on day 26, we still have no vehicle to look out for all these eyeballs on this story. All these potential, you know, crime solvers have not been alerted to any vehicles to look out for. This is pretty interesting. It also makes me think, well, what do they have inside the two mile zone? If this is outside the two mile zone, what do you got inside the two mile zone? If you've been able to do what this expert pas. Brosnan was able to do, why haven't you told us to look out for this? I'm fascinated. Again, because the FBI is involved as well. This is not just, this is not just a Pima county investigation anymore. So I know people have been piling on and I've been, you know, part of that onto some of the missteps of the, the sheriff's department. But, you know, the FBI's involved too. So I'm just really interested. Did you not have any luck in finding any video on that morning? This isn't a January 11th video. Right. This is that morning, that time within, you know, eight minutes and a seven minute drive away. So super, super interesting. Okay, so I'm going to ask Maureen o' Connell about this in just a moment. She's just, you know, chef's kiss on her knowledge base. Former FBI special agent and, you know, security expert in her own right. So I'm going talk to her about that in a second. But I also want to tell you a bit of other news that I've learned from my law enforcement source. And I think this is really fascinating stuff. We've kind of lost sight of the Range Rover. The silver Range Rover, right. That was towed and license plate covered and taken into evidence and assuming. Assuming processed by law enforcement sources after that February 13th Friday night raid, do you remember just the massive law enforcement response to the neighborhood that was only about 2 miles away from Nancy Guthrie's home and a woman and another young man and then another man at a different location at a Culver's restaurant, all detained while that house was searched. Okay. Found out some information about it from my source. Here is what I've learned. The Range Rover as of several days ago, still part of the investigation. Right. Also, what I learned was that the Range Rover, because we all wondered. The Range Rover looked dirty and dusty. It looked like it had been in the Culver's parking lot for a while. But the guy was sitting in a, you know, a law enforcement vehicle in cuffs being questioned. Did, did he connect to it? Yes. The answer is, according to my source, yes, he was connected. He was the One driving that Range Rover. Did he own it? That is unclear. And even that was being sort of bandied about through law enforcement. And what my source says connected to that vehicle, possibly using that vehicle for illegal activities. That's what my law enforcement said. They were trying to assess the ownership of it. Not necessarily that he owned it, but he had been driving it that night. In fact, a law enforcement plane had been following him for quite some time prior to the raid. That is super interesting. So he was under that kind of surveillance from above, from a plane.
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Where?
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Why the Culvers? So my source told me that the woman in the home is definitely his mom. Couldn't tell me about the other man being his brother, but there was some. Some reporting that was unconfirmed, that the other person was his brother. But the woman who was taken from the home and according to the New York Times, taken to a neighbor's. And, you know, the neighbor was asking you just, you know, help her to stay here, keep her comfortable while we search the hell out of her house with a warrant. So he had been at the house. The man who was detained at the Culver's had been at his home with his mother and went out to get food, went out to pick up food. And that, according to my source, was the time that they decided this was a good time to hook him up, put the cuffs on, detain, ask questions. So they followed him to the Culver's as he was thinking he was going to go grab some food and come home. And that's when they all simultaneously, you know, went into action, grabbed his mom, pulled her out and the young man, and then grabbed him with a separate set of units at the Culver's. So I'm told by my source that they seized their phones and that they still had them as several days ago, they still had those phones because it could take weeks to process whatever material they wanted to get out of those phones. And you understand grabbing phones isn't just an automatic thing. There's a process, there's a privacy issue, there's warranting. There's all sorts of stuff that you have to do. And it could actually take some time if there are, say, encrypted apps on phones. So they. They're going to take, apparently several weeks from February 13th. And here we are February 26th. It'll be two weeks tomorrow. Exactly that that that raid happened and that those detainees were held, questioned, and released with no charges. Okay, why him? This is interesting. So in order to get the warrant, my law enforcement source tells me in order to get the warrant to come after this guy and the home he was in with his mom and whoever else it was, they used cell phone data, his criminal history, including illegal trafficking. They used the fact that he had a similar description as the suspect on the doorbell cam. And here's the big one. They had a specific tip from a person. They had a specific tip from a person. So they used all of that to go to a judge or a magistrate, whoever it was that signed off on the warrant and got that warrant. And again, since they had been trailing them with the plane from above, my assumption is that that warrant was kind of in place and ready to go for a little while, because they decided exactly on the time and that they'd wait, you know, as he went out to get food, that they'd grab him separately and go through the house at a separate time. So lots of really, really interesting information. And then this last piece that I found so fascinating, I have not been able to put my finger on why the law enforcement source or the law enforcement members who were on scene at the Culver's and searching, photographing the. The silver suv, the silver Range Rover, and then suddenly they put up those privacy shields, and we all lost our ever loving minds because we thought, oh, my God, that's usually, you know, that's usually a body. You know, you're putting up privacy shields like that, it usually means you're about to take a body out of the back of the. Of a vehicle. So up went the back, you know, hatch of the Range Rover, up went the privacy shields. Cameras were everywhere. I've learned why. It was not because they suspected a body was inside. It was not. It was because we were all there with cameras. They were well aware. The agents on the ground and the sheriff's deputies on the ground were well aware of the number of cameras that could have a direct line of sight into the back of this vehicle. And so that is the only reason. They just wanted to get a better look at the evidence inside the back of the vehicle and not give us that same. Right, right. So those shields went up just so that they could get eyes on without the window, without the, you know, dirty window in between them. But it was not because they had seen anything through those windows that they suspected at the time was a body. It was just solely that. Just to keep us prying eyes. And it worked because all we saw was privacy shields. Right. But, my God, did it ever lead to, crazy speculation that, my God, there might be a body in there? Right. And it all Dispelled the next day when the sheriff's department said nobody arrested, the detainees released, you know, and that, yes, a raid had been. Had been executed that night. So lots of really interesting information on that. And, you know, as of about a week ago, you know, Brian Enten had said that there was some meat on the bones of that investigation. Super fascinating. Meat on the bones meant that they would still be looking at that. We have not had an update from the sheriff or from the FBI as to the significance of that raid or that part of the investigation. But now that I know that it takes, you know, several weeks, so that they had planned to take several weeks to extract information from the phones that they had seized in that raid, you know, makes sense. They still have a lot of work to do, and they've got that evidence, so you don't release it until you've exhausted all of that work. All right, so I told you about Maureen o', Connell, and let me tell you, I turned to her, and I have for years. By the way, you may just be seeing her if you're new to the true crime world because of all the work that she's been doing lately on this particular story in her analysis. But I've been interviewing and watching Maureen o' Connell for a very long time because she's smart. She is a former FBI special agent and host of the podcast Best Case, Worst Case, and all around really smart lady. Now, here's my conversation with Maureen o'. Connell. What do you make of this new series of images? All these vehicles, a dozen vehicles passing by someone's ring cam a half mile outside of the perimeter that they had canvassed for people's videos.
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C
I'm so happy I could jump up and down. It's always going to come back to a vehicle. All so many crimes start with a vehicle, end with a vehicle, and the arrests are a result of a vehicle. So I am very, very happy if. If we were able to tell what type of car it is, we can start looking in other places for it. You know, just the color and the shape. And even if you can narrow it down to two or three different vehicles, oh, it's gonna. It's gonna be great. Hopefully, this is the break we've all been praying for.
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Well, let me. Let me bring this up again. A retired NYPD detective and national security expert named Pat Brosnan told Fox that his review of their video suggests it's a Kia Soul. Based on, you know, the slanted roof, the window design, the rear quarter glass, and the vertical brake lights.
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C
These Cops know their cars because they're always looking for cars. We're always looking at surveillance tape, and we're always trying to figure out who people are and what shady behavior they're up to. So if he says that's what it is, it's. He's probably real close. And if I'm not mistaken, that's a very square body, isn't it, on that Kia Soul? Yeah.
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B
I don't know my cars, but it looked like it on the video.
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C
Yeah. All right, I can't wait to see that. That's excellent news.
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B
It is. And I'm so interested to hear that. The time is 2:36am which is just eight minutes after Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker was separated. And it's roughly only a seven minute drive between these two homes. That's gotta mean something.
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C
It definitely means something. You know, whenever you get information on a case, Ashley, throwing it up on the timeline is always really important, and it can tell you a lot of things. And that is so close to the time that this potentially happened. And when her pacemaker separated from her phone or from her phone. Yeah. So her phone was left in her bedroom, and it sounds like they got her out the front door. And when she probably got onto the front porch, her pacemaker lost connection with the phone. And that's probably where this vehicle pulled up. And they put her in the vehicle and drove off.
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B
And so I keep thinking about this neighborhood. It's very, very dark, very hard to navigate. But somebody might have decided that this is the back road that leads out of Mrs. Guthrie's neighborhood and avoids the major intersections. You'd either have to know your way around in the dark of night, or you'd be using some kind of a navigation app. I can only imagine the FBI has been able to at least have some kind of intelligence on the use of navigation apps in that exact neighborhood at that exact time.
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C
Yeah, or you could. You could roll old school and just. And do a couple of dry runs. Do dry runs in the day and a couple dry runs at night, which are a lot harder. And you know, when they're coming down that street, they probably had their headlights off. It had to be just pitch black or just their parking lights because you don't want to draw attention. And you never know when someone's going to just be walking their dog in the middle of the night. So you just gotta be careful. My guess is they pulled.
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B
I don't know how you'd see, though, without headlights. It is pitch black because of the University of Arizona's contract to keep the lights down for the, for the astronomy programs.
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C
Right. Well, we, you have a place, you have a cabin. Our family has one. And it's pitch dark and sometimes I just turn the lights off to see how dark it is. And. Could I drive around here at night and. No, only if you know it really, really well. But I'm just saying that when they pulled up to the house, they likely turned the lights off completely, pulled into the driveway. Not the circle driveway, I would say the driveway to the side. But you'd have to have your lights off there just in case she was already up in the middle of the night, you know. Yeah, some people can't sleep.
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B
So the other thing I was wondering is if they were able to capture these images from a ring cam that was pointed towards the, the street two and a half miles away. They must have something similar within the 2 mile radius. No.
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C
Yes. I mean, you know, those houses are set so far back you can have cameras all around your house. You're not going to be able to see to the street. You may see that there is a light going by, but you're not going to see much else because there's no ambient light out there. There's no street lights. So that I think is. I think they've beaten that point to death. I am disappointed that when they didn't get any information from their original perimeter that they didn't extend the perimeter. I'm very disappointed in that.
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B
That's my next question is I thought about a two mile radius. That's a lot of property. That's a lot of, you know, that's a big area. But these properties are all big. They're not stacked against each other. You're not talking about tens of thousands of homeowners, you're talking about a few hundred. Or why would they have even chosen 2 miles? Why not just start really big and then pick your investigations, you know, in the middle of the concentric circle? Because those videos could be overwritten by now.
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C
Yeah, but I mean, they were asking for them right at the very beginning. And the bottom line is even when you're, even when you're, when you consider things like most traffic collisions or most accidents happen within a one or two mile radius of your house because that's where you are most the time. We know for a fact they were at Nancy's. We know for a fact they left Nancy's house. So I think a two mile perimeter is a really good starting point. But when that didn't, you know, when Nothing came of that. It's time to open your perimeter, open your aperture a little bit more, and let's see what we can come up with. Even if it's another quarter of a mile all the way around or something. Yeah. Or just the areas near the back road, wherever there's an egress.
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B
Everybody's different in their settings, but a lot of these things overwrite. Like, you can't sort of say, well, let's say in a month, we don't get anywhere. Let's go ask people for video a month from now. Well, you're not going to get it. The time to ask is right away. Remember in Moscow, they were asking businesses for video a little too late, and they said, sorry, it's overwritten already. You got to ask for it right away, cast a really wide net, and then just start gumshoeing through it.
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C
Well, I didn't mean to wait a month. I meant within those first couple days when you didn't get anything that was fruitful. Open it up a little, start asking for mutual aid and get people to go to those areas, at least along the roads that lead out of there. Because my understanding is there aren't that many. And if this is the one that goes. That avoids the major intersections, that's definitely one to look at. You know, you would think.
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B
And we don't know if the sheriff or the FBI is going to release this to the public, saying, hey, everybody, let's start looking for a vehicle we think might be a Kia Soul, like the Moscow police said, with the white Elantra. We just don't know if there's evidentiary value here. All we know is what Fox was able to find from these neighbors and the fact that the neighbors were surprised they. They weren't canvassed. You know, I guess we'll watch the space for that. Let's move on to the other topic, and that is the. The silver Range Rover that we all seem to have forgotten about is still, you know, I didn't forget about it. Yeah, right. It's still in play. And I've learned from, you know, my law enforcement source that the guy they were targeting was at his mom's house, and then, you know, left to go pick up food. And that's when they decided to move in in two different locations and grab the mom, pull her out of the home and search the home and grab him in the Culver's parking lot. And it turns out he was driving the silver Range Rover and they had a law enforcement plane overhead. Any of that a Sur to you?
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C
No, because they were. He. It probably had something to do with cell phones because they, anyone that was in that area, they, they, they were part of that geofence region. And so they were probably looking at this guy and it was a. You know, I don't know if they had the, they must have had the tag if they had the bird up.
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B
Yeah. My source said that the plane had been following him for a while. End quote.
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C
Okay, so then for a while. So they had the tag. They knew when that truck was purchased. My, or least my understanding is a truck just like that from on the surround of the license plate, it had the name of the dealership, and they had that pretty much that truck on their website as being sold just, you know, a couple of days before the, Before Nancy's attack or abduction.
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B
So we weren't able to find out if he owned that. My source only said that he was connected to that vehicle, could have been using it for criminal activity, and was driving it at that time. So that was the connection. He was connected to that silver Range Rover. But the other interesting thing is that they used criminal history of illegal trafficking, the fact that he physically had a similar description as the person on the ring cam or on the doorbell cam at Nancy's house. They used cell data, you were right. And that they had a specific tip from a person. That's a lot of stuff. And it sounds to me like that's an easy warrant.
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C
That's probable cause. Yeah. Right there. You've got probable cause, so that's good. And people were saying, oh, they got him and then they let him go. Yeah, probable cause will get you the warrant, but it's not gonna always get you the arrest. You just have to relax and understand that.
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B
So the other issue my source told me was that they got the phones in that raid, and as of just a few days ago, they still had them, but that it could take, quote, weeks in order to extract the information that they might be looking for.
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C
Well, it's not going to take. I mean, it probably wouldn't take that long to get a lot of stuff off the phone. But for encrypted apps, where you're going to find anything you're. You really want to see, that's going to take a lot longer. And I'm, you know, obviously they're not cooperating or it all would have been extracted already.
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B
You know, a lot of people have been talking about these, these two raids that we've watched and that those who were hooked up in those raids and detained and then released. And if they're innocent, they could, they could, you know, it's actionable that they could sue the department. It's really, really hard to sue the government. It's really hard to sue the police. But I am sort of curious about the mother of this guy because now my source says this is his mother in the house. She's pulled out of her house. She's taken, according to the New York Times, to the neighbor where the FBI agents say, could you just look after her for a while while we raid her house? Does she have a case? Given that she's not the person, she's not the target?
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C
No, but she lives in the house. She lives. If they have a warrant for the house, they've got a warrant for the house. It happens all the time. We would have a warrant for, like, a drug warrant. And it's for one, let's say one guy named John and he lives there with three or four other people. We're looking for narcotics. We're looking for narcotics that we can tie directly to John. And we ask questions of those people that live there. When we find stuff, who does this belong to? Who has dominion and control over this particular room, or is this his room, where is his room, all that kind of stuff. And we're able to search the whole house, but we want to be able to tie whatever evidence we find to the offender that we're looking.
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B
We're looking at, even if he doesn't live there.
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C
I. So he doesn't live. The son doesn't.
- [32:17]
B
I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm just curious. If he doesn't live there, they still have that same full right to raid the house. If he spends time there, he must
- [32:27]
C
be spending the night there. And so he stays there. And he. They had to bed him down in that location. There had to be a number of different data points to tie him to that location. And they oftentimes they'll have to, what we call bed him down there, meaning we take him there, we follow him there, and we watch his car. And it stays there until, let's say, 11:30 or 12 at night. And then you either sit on it all night or you come back the next morning at 5 and the car is still there. You've now bedded that guy down in that location.
- [33:01]
B
That's interesting. What do you make of the whole use of privacy shields given that my source said it wasn't about a body? They didn't see a body through the windows. They just wanted to open the hatch. Get a good look at what was in the back of the silver Range Rover and just knew that there were just a lot of prying eyes with camera lenses nearby. And they put those privacy shields up for that reason.
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C
I think it's smart. I would do it. I would absolutely do it. You know, we would put those pop up tents up if we thought we had human remains. And even though it wasn't remains there, I didn't know, I don't know what was back there. Maybe they didn't know what was back there because those windows appeared to be tinted pretty dark. So maybe they weren't sure what they were going to find. And then when you reach in and you lift up a blanket.
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B
But my source did say they didn't suspect it was a body and that they put the shields up not because they thought there was a body, just because they wanted to look at the evidence without all the reporters seeing it.
- [33:58]
C
That makes sense. I would absolutely do that myself. Yeah. Because nothing is. The press has been omnipresent with their drones up all around the house since the very beginning. And, you know, it's just this insatiable desire for evidence. But we have to, or the law enforcement has to protect the investigation. As much as we want to know everything we want to know right now, they're charged with, you know, just for Nancy, for her sake, we're trying to protect all the evidence.
- [34:31]
B
Well, it is an insanely high profile case. I mean, I don't have to tell anybody that. If they're watching this podcast, they know it. To that end, what do you make of the activity outside the house yesterday? All the folks showing up in blue suits and walking around the perimeter and walking inside. And the black SUVs with the tinted window, one of them going into the garage and you know, the garage door coming down and then it leaving quickly an hour later. Like, what's your read on the actual
- [34:56]
C
garage door, by the way? 11 seconds to go up, 11 seconds to come down. Because I'm always thinking about that garage door and that two minutes and her getting in the house. And I always, and I always think whoever dropped her off had to go out a different door because that's just not enough time, you know, to open the garage door, have Nancy walk in. Because the police chief said initially two minutes. Yeah, two minutes.
- [35:22]
B
Two minutes later it came down.
- [35:24]
C
Family members got her in the house, got her settled and got out. You can't do that in that amount of time with an 84 year old woman with mobility issues. So I Timed that. But I think it was probably Savannah in the suv, in the black SUV that was with the smoked out windows that went into the garage and closed the door, and she was probably going in there. You know, if they're. If they're operating since the sheriff has completely cleared everyone in the family and anyone related to them, I mean, whatever. We're not going to get into that. But maybe they're operating under the assumption that this is some sort of a stalker situation. And if that's the case, the things that would be missing would be Savannah's personal items that might be in her room, like old photos or who knows what people. You know, people in situations like this are obviously uber creepy, but they could have just wanted photos of her or some memento that made him or her. Him feel like, oh, you know, she's my girlfriend or something, so maybe she just went up.
- [36:35]
B
I never thought of that. That they might have said, we need to go in and assess the inside of the house to see the things that might be miss. That maybe we overlooked. Because it wasn't valuables.
- [36:46]
C
Right. Well, initially, you're going to look for valuables because that's your assumption. You know, at first blush, that's what this looked like. It's someone who. It's a kidnapping and kidnapped for ransom. But that turned out not to be the case. Or who knows what this is going to shake out to be because it's just nothing any of us have ever seen before. But then if you move to someone is stalking her, it would make sense that they're going to take some trophies from her or, you know, what people call trophies. So maybe they had her go in to see what was missing. She was also there not long ago when her mom did that show. And, you know, so they already got what Annie and her husband walked them through the house initially, and so they allowed them to tell them what was askew. This is exactly how it always is. Mom keeps her iPad here. That's where it is. You know, this is out of place. This isn't.
- [37:47]
B
That would be the morning you're talking about Sunday morning when they called for help.
- [37:51]
C
Yes, exactly. Sorry. So, yeah, that morning they were able to walk law enforcement through the house. So today I think they wanted. My guess, you know, it's just an assumption, but my guess is they wanted Savannah to walk through and see if there's anything she could find that was missing or askew or, you know, whatever, because the person spent 41 minutes in there, and that's a long, long time.
- [38:17]
B
Well, I keep wondering if they did. We only know that the camera was tampered with, but we don't know if that meant that the person entered the house at the time they tampered with the camera. I'm not sure. I'm still. My jury's out on that one. I don't know when they actually entered the house. We don't know the entry time. We just know the separation of the pacemaker time. So I'm curious about that. What do you make of the report that I was able to get from another law enforcement source that the blood droplets inside the house were the same pattern as the blood droplets outside the house. Meaning there wasn't a sign of struggle, there wasn't footprints through them. It was more just the same droplets pattern that we witnessed on the video outside the house.
- [39:02]
C
Well, wherever she was bleeding from, the blood droplets were able to drop, then just drop straight down because the ones on the porch were all round and appeared to, you know, I didn't get a good enough look at them. But they'll be able to tell. The blood experts will be able to tell exactly how far these droplets fell and whether they came from our mouth or not. Because if it came from our mouth, they'll be able to find saliva and other things in there. Just the whole thing is just, you know, we do everything in our lives to do. To just treat the vulnerable members of our community the best way we can. And then to have something like this happen, it just breaks everyone's hearts.
- [39:49]
B
I mean, I think it's why everyone's watching so intently, why it's so high profile. It's not just that it's Savannah's mom. It's just the. Who does something like this, you know, that. That part of the story, I was not able to find out from my source where in the house those blood droplets were. But my source did say that there were. There were a couple things that stood out to them. That was, number one, the front doorbell cam, gone. My original source, different source. That said, smashed back door, wide open, blood droplets on the ground. And that the immediate reference was to tell the responding units, gotta get out of here. Do not contaminate the scene. This is more to it than a missing. Missing woman who might have wandered off. So I don't know if that means that those blood. Yeah. That the blood droplets may have been right there in that front entrance area because they were able to witness the door open, or whether they canvassed around the house and saw the blood droplets somewhere there. I can't Tell you that it would be helpful to know where the blood droplets were, though, and then couple that information with Savannah using the words in her video a couple days ago where she announced that the reward would be a million dollars from the family. She used the words, my mom was taken in the dark of night from her bed. Taken from her bed in the dark of night. And I didn't know if she was, you know, literal or if it was literal. And Savannah is a journalist and she is a broadcaster, and she knows words matter. It was the same terminology the sheriff used early on and then walked back the next day saying, I didn't think you'd take me literally. It was just being figurative. But if Savannah was being literal and not figurative, that's a big piece of information that Nancy Guthrie, Savannah's manufgurative. That's what I thought. Taken from her bed.
- [41:42]
C
Yes. And the other reason I would guess that the blood was in the bedroom is because a Annie and her husband were probably looking around the house and maybe not looking at that other side of the bed where the slider door is, you know, but her mom had hearing issues, and if the person was yelling commands at her, she would not be able to hear them. And that may have been what caused whatever injury she had because they thought she was ignoring them or whatever, you know, and even trying to yank on her or something to get her out of the bed. And she had to, you know, put her hearing aids in. Because I know a couple of. I have a sister that can't hear without her hearing aids. And I mean, she can't hear anything. And so it's frightening, first of all, to be that frightened. Secondly, to not have your hearing aids in and you can't even communicate. It's just the worst case scenario.
- [42:40]
B
Well, and Maureen, the New York Times did a piece talking to Nancy Guthrie's friends, and one of the friends said that she had recently begun using powerful hearing aids, which. You're spot on. Her hearing would be very compromised if she was using powerful. Those are the words used. Hearing AIDS.
- [42:59]
C
Yep. She's 84. It happens.
- [43:02]
B
Let's talk a little bit about the. There's so much sleuthing going on online. And there's an image. If you zoom in on the perpetrator's pocket, there's something sticking out of the perpetrator's pocket. I thought at first it was the corner of an iPhone, but as I read through a lot of other folks who've put in their thoughts, some said it looked like maybe a lock pick. Pen, which I didn't realize. I mean, it stands to reason, a lock pick pen kind of looks like it might be that or maybe even a walkie talkie, which some people have said, well, that suggests that this person was. Was working with an accomplice.
- [43:48]
C
I would. It could be a lock pick, I guess. But it looks to me, and pardon me while I look down here, but it looks to me to be just a radio. Like a radio antenna. I'm looking for that one.
- [44:06]
B
Like a walkie talkie.
- [44:08]
C
Yep, like a walkie talkie. Because these guys didn't have phones on them. If they had phones on them and the bureau didn't pick them up, I mean, I don't know what to tell you, but if you look at that. If you look at some of these walkie talkies that people have, you could call the car up without using your phone. You could tell your buddy, hey, pull it up into the circle. Drive now. And. Yeah, just like these. Sure. Yeah. Those ones that we were talking about
- [44:38]
B
earlier, do you think that that very, very small area of an image looks like a light, like the antenna of a walkie talkie? More so than the edge of a phone?
- [44:52]
C
Much more so than the edge of a phone. And I asked my husband, who was a police officer for 38 years, and he said, that's absolutely a radio. And I said, babe, we can't say that. That's just conjecture. And he goes, I carried a radio for 38 years. I know what it looks like. And it stands just like that when it's in your pocket and you can't zip the pocket all the way closed because you have to have the antenna. You can fit an iPhone in any pocket. I mean, if that's the top of an iPhone, you're not going to let your iPhone hang out like that, because the last thing you want is to get into a struggle with someone and leave your iPhone at the crime scene. But this, you can. You can cinch it up just to the. Just over the top of the radio portion and let the antenna stick out of your pocket.
- [45:36]
B
Well, that. That would be huge if it was determined that this is a radio, because it does certainly speak to the possibility of somebody else being a part of this. Sometimes I. Sometimes I just. In my own personal thoughts, I think, I hope there was an accomplice. And then I know it's not necessarily a sexual crime, because, you know, so few sexual crimes would involve an accomplice. But.
- [45:59]
C
And people don't kid yourself, really, People are savages.
- [46:05]
B
I mean, I know and most people who don't live the world that you and I live, and you more so than me would say, well, who would, you know, who would think to sexually assault an 84 year old woman? And unfortunately, so many times in our, you know, line of work, we see it, we just do. We see people who just do, you know, and it's not. They're not off limits. You know, the elderly are not off limits for these kinds of crimes, which is just unbelievable.
- [46:28]
C
It is unbelievable. But sometimes it doesn't actually involve an essay on the person. Sometimes just the fear you see in someone's face gives you sexual gratification. That's a whole different story. But that happens all the time too. Sometimes they just get off on the fear. Unbelievable.
- [46:48]
B
Okay, last question. It may seem like it's kind of a small thing, usually an afterthought, an asterisk, whatever. But the sheriff yesterday put parking restrictions in place. No parking on either side of the street. All up and down where Nancy Guthrie lives. And again, that may seem like nothing to people until you realize the logistics of what it takes to broadcast from a location. And that location has been a broadcast location for 26 days. Is this the sheriff trying to get rid of the media on this story? Or is there some other legitimate reason you can see why that would happen? That kind of a restriction would be, get out of here. You can't have your gear here. You can hump it from blocks away to set up your, you know, your camera location, but you can't park here. And you can't use your vehicle for shelter or power or temperature control, any of that. What would you see as the reason for this?
- [47:48]
C
I see a number of. I see a number of things that could be happening. But then they're saying that they're turning the house over to the Guthrie family again. When I first heard this, my first thought was they're gonna come in with a forensics team and go over the entire house. And even though it would be really, really difficult for the prosecution if they could maybe find three or four other points with some good DNA in there. Cause no one's been in the house. Even though it hasn't been sealed or anything. No one else has been in the house. And the press has been around there pretty much the whole time. I mean, I don't know. I would give it another shot before I would turn it over to the family. I would look at every.
- [48:34]
B
But I mean, the reporters are still there. The reporters can still be there. They just.
- [48:38]
C
Yeah, but they're not Going to be there as long they can't.
- [48:41]
B
Exactly. That's what I mean. Are they. Is the sheriff. I wondered if it was punitive. Get the hell out of here. You've been horrible to me. Or if it was really strategic, if there's some strat. I just don't see a lot of strategic in this.
- [48:54]
C
I hope it's a strategy and I hope it involves an evidence response team getting in there and just going bananas. Because the one thing you want, if you bring a big team in there is you want the whole street. You want everybody to be able to park their vehicles, have all their stuff open their trunks without people all up in their business. The same thing like you talked about with those tarps that they were holding up. Nobody likes to work under those conditions because a lot of this type of work requires, especially if you have younger people on the scene, they'll say, so for a scene like this, do you think it's better to use this or that? And you know, you can't have anyone else hear that because then you're going to get ripped apart on the stand you want. Because sometimes it's just a matter of, hey, do I use these cotton gloves under these nitrile gloves, or do you think I should use this other one? Because you sweat a lot and someone with experience would be able to just say, you do this. You know, it's what law enforcement is. We help out and mentor the younger generation. And so if it's not. Yeah, if it's something like that, I'd be so happy because even though it would be a long, hard road, I think they could get a lot from it. You know, I don't know what the search and evidence collection actually looked like those first 48 hours. And I've seen how well the Pima county sheriff deputies are working with the FBI. They're all getting all. Getting along great at, you know, the boots on the ground. But it's usually just the managers that are fighting with each other or the hires up.
- [50:38]
B
Listen, I don't know this business as well as you guys do, but I am just astounded that the bracket for the nest cam was left on the house. Because if that guy had a bite light in his mouth, the only way to get a bite light in and out of your mouth is to take it, put it in, or take it out.
- [50:54]
C
I've been saying that since the beginning.
- [50:56]
B
And your hands are then messing with that camera and bracket, and the only thing left behind was the bracket. So I just didn't understand why that bracket wasn't taken in the first place. And then what do you know, two weeks later it was the rug. The rug, the half moon rug was there. It was left behind the foliage that had dropped below. I mean, I don't think, I hope, I really hope what you're saying is right. Is it a massive evidence response team is going to come in. Not so much for the prosecution. I get it. There's a lot of chance for some of that shit to have sailed. But to find her, that's the number one priority. Find her and then prosecute after. I get it. It's important. But the most important thing is just find her. Whatever it takes.
- [51:37]
C
Well, it seems like there's a lot of activity. There's a lot of bees buzzing around. Just this sense of. Savannah gave, offered up that million dollar reward. Yeah, thanks. Sorry. But if no one comes forward for $1 million, what does that tell you? They can't because they're the person who did it. I mean, you know when there's two or more, they're in a pressure cooker right now one knows that the other one could pull the plug on them and vice versa. And right now they've got nothing. They didn't get anything out of this.
- [52:21]
B
Maureen, it's great talking to you. I'm just so thankful that you take time out of your busy day and I know you had a 12 hour day today, so I'm really thankful. Appreciate.
- [52:28]
C
You're welcome.
- [52:30]
B
So there you have it. I will be fascinated if the Sheriff's department gives us any kind of update on whether that vehicle found two and a half miles away from Nancy Guthrie's property at 2:36 in the morning driving past someone's ring cam is of evidentiary value if it matters to this investigation or if it is just dispelled as somebody else coming home late. But I don't think I'd hold my breath on it because the sheriff has stopped giving his digital updates and the tweeted updates and who knows if he's going to be giving any of the press conferences that we haven't seen in several weeks. In any case, thank you so much for watching. Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to subscribe and join our membership if you if you're so inclined. It's a really good group. I'm Ashley Banfield and if you remember one thing, truth is not just serious, it's drop dead serious. Weight Watchers now offers access to affordable GLP1s. It works for members like I'm Haley
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