The Case Against Tyler Robinson: Alleged Charlie Kirk Assassin | LIVE with Matt Murphy

Summary

---

Drop Dead Serious with Ashleigh Banfield

Episode: The Case Against Tyler Robinson: Alleged Charlie Kirk Assassin | LIVE with Matt Murphy
Date: September 13, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This live episode of Drop Dead Serious with Ashleigh Banfield dives into the breaking case of Tyler James Robinson, the 22-year-old suspect arrested in connection with the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Ashleigh dissects the evolving investigation, the available evidence, and the legal and social complexities of the coming prosecution. Later, esteemed former homicide prosecutor Matt Murphy joins to offer his direct, balanced insights on the legal process ahead, the political climate, and the wider cultural ramifications of the crime.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The State of the Case and Known Evidence

[01:01-16:22]

• Tyler Robinson’s Status:

  • Arrested, but not yet formally charged (charging scheduled for Tuesday) and held without bail.
  • Facing state charges: aggravated murder, felony discharge of a firearm causing serious bodily injury, and obstruction of justice (potentially capital offenses).

• Evidence Gathering:

  • Firearm Forensics: Rifle found at scene; likely to have fingerprints, sweat, skin cells, and DNA.

    “I didn’t see him wearing any gloves. So I think that there are going to be fingerprints...face on the scope…” — Ashleigh [02:13]

  • Palm and Shoe Prints: Palm print from jumping off the LOSI building; uniquely worn Converse sneakers leaving a grass imprint.
  • Vehicle Evidence: The suspect’s gray Dodge Charger will be searched for gunshot residue and further evidence.
  • Digital and Surveillance: Law enforcement has unreleased surveillance material and is analyzing a timeline including Robinson’s phone usage right before the shooting.
  • Witnesses: 3,000+ people present; multiple witness accounts still to be collected. Law enforcement and bystanders may have observed critical moments and suspect movements.
  • Social Media & Messaging: Discord chats referenced regarding stash of weapon and plans for post-crime escape.

• Family Dynamics:

  • The suspect’s father and a family pastor were instrumental in Robinson’s surrender; details emerging on the father’s actions.

Legal and Procedural Challenges

[07:40-18:39]

• Death Penalty Complications:

  • President’s public call for the death penalty risks prejudicing the legal process.

    “The President went off and said, I think he should get the death penalty. That is not helpful.” — Ashleigh [07:57]

  • Defense likely to file motions to remove death penalty as an option due to prejudicial pretrial publicity.

• Jury Selection and Politics:

  • The extreme political polarization surrounding the crime raises concerns about unbiased jurors and potential for “stealth jurors.”
  • Utah’s use of firing squad as a death penalty method referenced.
  • Voir dire will need to probe deeply into jurors' political leanings, news sources, and motives.

    “I am super worried about this jury pool. I’m super worried about how to voir dire them. What do you ask these people? How do you vote?” — Ashleigh [09:13]

• Reward Money Ethics:

  • Discussion about whether the suspect’s father, who turned him in, is eligible for reward money—and the moral complexity it brings.

Analysis by Matt Murphy (Former Homicide Prosecutor)

[21:59-53:50]

The Social and Political Aftermath

• Online Polarization:

  • Surge of celebratory rhetoric around the murder across social feeds from both sides of the spectrum.

    “...we have never seen anything like we saw in that...wholesale celebration of murder.” — Matt Murphy [21:59]

  • Both host and guest denounce political leaders and social media users inflaming tensions post-shooting.

• Dangers of Social Media Jumping to Conclusions:

  • Recounting instances where innocent people were falsely accused online.

    “What is with us? Why can’t we be more discerning?” — Ashleigh [24:09]

  • The case mirrors previous notable crimes (e.g., Idaho student murders) in how quickly misinformation spreads and how “keyboard warriors” escalate real-world harm.

• Potential Mental Health Issues:

  • Both Robinson’s personal history and apparent motivations open discussions about mental illness versus ideological extremism as factors.

Legal Analysis & Jury Selection

• Mitigation and Defense Possibilities:

  • Family’s moral struggle and potential for mental illness to mitigate severity of prosecution/sentence.

    “Depending on the level of mental illness, that’s a factor in mitigation that the jury will be instructed to consider…” — Matt Murphy [27:18]

  • Utah’s unique death penalty methods and its conservative political tilting pose complications for the defense and prosecution.

• Jury Vetting:

  • Importance of questionnaires about news consumption to infer political alignment.
  • Legal teams can research juror social media, though it remains a legally grey or evolving area.

• Public Defenders’ Role:

  • Both Ashleigh and Matt affirm that public defenders, especially for homicide/capital cases, can be among the best in the field.

    “Some of the best lawyers I ever tried cases against were PDs in Orange County, or alternative defenders…” — Matt Murphy [51:28]

Calls for National Reflection and Empathy

• Both speakers reflect on the decay of political discourse and urge a return to civil debate and mutual respect, regardless of party affiliation.
• Ashleigh shares her own traumatic experience as a reporter/victim of 9/11, highlighting how Americans once united across party lines after national trauma.

  “It has taken me a long time to process the emotions that go with nearly dying...but my God, there was none of this. And look how far we dropped.” — Ashleigh [34:18]

• Both denounce the normalization of political violence and the dangers of dehumanizing rhetoric.
• Matt underscores the deep, generational trauma inflicted on the victim’s family:

  “[Murder] is the apoplectic, multigenerational, unbelievable grief that loved ones go through.” — Matt Murphy [36:02]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On evidence strength:

  “If it traces back to Tyler Robinson, that’s…problematic for him.” — Ashleigh [02:20]

• On prejudicial publicity and the death penalty:

  “What you’re doing is infecting the jury pool… The President…has already called for the death penalty.” — Ashleigh [07:50]

• On the power and risk of social media:

  “Now it’s keyboard warriors…but you get enough of them together and that’s what people need to understand…” — Matt Murphy [24:45] “It’s a cesspool right from the minute Charlie Kirk was shot…” — Ashleigh [21:52]

• On parent’s dilemma turning in a child:

  “Could you turn your own son over, especially if he’s mentally ill…and, you know, you’ve seen the devolution. Could you turn him over to the death penalty?” — Ashleigh [26:46]

• On political violence as terrorism:

  “When you’re attempting to affect public policy…with violence. That’s what terrorism is, guys.” — Matt Murphy [29:52]

• On post-tragedy polarization vs. unity:

  “I recall for quite some time after 9/11, there was no party. We were all unified as Americans together…” — Ashleigh [34:18]

• On hate speech and free speech:

  “Hate speech is not speech that you hate, guys. Hate speech is speech that incites violence. Charlie Kirk never did that.” — Matt Murphy [37:19]

• On critique of celebrating violence:

  “All these people dancing around, they have never lost a loved one to violent crime…they wouldn't be celebrating. Shame on every single one of them.” — Matt Murphy [43:24]

• Philosophical Closing:

  “Insult is the final refuge of the loser of the debate.” — Matt Murphy [39:28]
  “I will defend to the death your right to say it…If there isn’t a better expression for America, I don’t know one.” — Ashleigh [39:49]

• On hope for justice and civility:

  “You can always get a fair jury.” — Matt Murphy [32:26] “Murder is never. Okay, guys.” — Matt Murphy [41:12]

---

Important Segments (Timestamps)

• [01:01–16:22] – Case timeline, evidence, charges, legal hurdles
• [16:22–21:59] – Ethical questions about family, reward money, and jury pool
• [21:59–32:00] – Social media impact, disinformation, mental illness, defense challenges (Murphy joins)
• [32:00–42:00] – Jury selection, voir dire, legal strategy, political context
• [42:00–53:50] – Grief ramifications, national unity, the role of public defenders
• [53:50–end] – Personal appeals for empathy, kindness, and better discourse

---

Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is forthright, sometimes irreverent yet deeply empathetic, with both Ashleigh Banfield and Matt Murphy striving to rise above political partisanship. They emphasize fact-based criminal procedure, the dangers of reactive social media culture, compassion for victims’ families (of both defendant and deceased), and an urgent call for renewed national civility.

Final Advice:

“Just pay forward something kind to someone who maybe isn’t like you...We need to work on ourselves as people. We need to work on ourselves as followers. Social media followers. Watch it. Watch that feed of yours…” — Ashleigh [53:51-end]

---

Transcript

[Grainger Maintenance Supervisor]

This is the story of the 1. As a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility, he knows keeping the line up and running is a top priority. That's why he chooses Grainger. Because when a drive belt gets damaged, Grainger makes it easy to find the exact specs for the replacement product he needs. And next day delivery helps ensure he'll have everything in place and running like clockwork. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Liberty Mutual Insurance Spokesperson]

Limu game and Doug Limu and I always tell you to customize your car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. But now we want you to feel it. Cue the emu music. Limu Save yourself money today. Increase your wealth. Customize and save. We save. That may have been too much feeling.

[Grainger Maintenance Supervisor]

Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com.

[Liberty Mutual Insurance Spokesperson]

Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Very unwritten.

[Grainger Maintenance Supervisor]

By Liberty Mutual Insurance company and affiliates excludes Massachusetts.

[Ashley Banfield]

I'm Ashley Banfield. This is drop dead serious and we are live. Gonna give people some time to get the alert. If you subscribe, you get the alerts to. When I do these very special live broadcasts, I don't do it very often, weirdly because I am a live broadcaster by by training when I'm on my News Nation show at 10 o' clock Eastern called Banfield Shout out to you know, we're live every night, five nights a week. But this is sort of new in this venue of podcasting and, and YouTube to do a live broadcast. I thought it was really important to connect with you guys over some things. We've been through something the last three days, y' all and me and the the country and I just wanted to talk facts and future with regard to the Charlie Kirk shooting and the looming prosecution of the man they've arrested, a 22 year old named Tyler James Robinson, UT resident. There's a lot that is wrong out there and there's a lot that is right and there is a lot that you don't know yet about what you may not know yet about what's going to transpire now that a suspect is in custody and we can't really even call him a defendant yet because he hasn't been formally charged. That's not even coming till Tuesday. This is in such nascents and welcome. If you're just joining us everybody, welcome to this live broadcast on YouTube about the Charlie Kirk shooting suspect. This is in its nascents. They are holding Tyler Robinson on a warrantless arrest with with no bail. Excuse me. Because they're still trying to get everything together. Let me get a quick, quick drink. Hold on, boy. That never happens on tv. I don't lose my voice on TV like that. Okay, so the three charges he's facing as of now, and this could be vastly change, and he could also face a federal charge as well. But these are state charges. Aggravated murder, felony discharge of a firearm, causing serious bodily injury and obstruction of justice. Capital slash first degree felony conduct. So that's, that's for starters. There's so much to talk about with regard to this investigation, this prosecution, and what could end up as a death penalty. Let me start with just the evidence that we know exists. It's important to know what exists because there's still lots more that they haven't told us. But what we know about is a gun that's retrieved. And I'm just going to go on a limb saying I didn't see him wearing any gloves. So I think that there are going to be fingerprints and sweat and transfer skin cells, DNA, face on the scope. I think there's going to be a lot of DNA and a lot of like a trove of, you know, forensic evidence on that rifle that, that was found. If it traces back to Tyler Robinson, that's, that's bad, that's, that's problematic for him. I also think that when he jumped down off of the side of the LOSI building where the shooting allegedly transpired, where he allegedly shot Charlie Kirk From 140ft away, they got a palm print. It's not the same as fingerprint, a palm print, but when you have someone to match the palm print to, it's very, very valuable. That will be valuable. The palm print that they got when he, you know, held himself over the ledge, then when he dropped to the grass, there's a, there's a shoe imprint and he's wearing extremely unique Converse sneakers. Gray Converse. Converse sneakers. I want to just let you know that every one of us has a unique shoe print. Unless they're brand new off the shelf and you haven't had them on. But when you walk around, you do things that the guy beside you doesn't. You step on a stone and it wedges in there, or you, you know, turn and you make a mark and it's a forever indent and different than the manufacturer shoe print that you got. So when we wear our shoes, they're all unique and individual. My feeling is they probably will have, you know, they were executing warrants throughout the day today, despite the bomb scare at his parents house. Shame on everybody who was involved in that. But when they seize those Converses, you can bet your bottom dollar they'll be seeking the print on the bottom of the. Of the. Of the Converse and to see if the grass allowed that level of imprint. It'll get size. I mean, that was a hell of a drop, right There was a really good, you know, concussion on the. On the ground there. But whether it's more than just size or out outline, whether there's an actual tread pattern, you get that in blood in a lot of investigations. You get it in mud, you get it in sand, But I don't know if you'll get it in this grass. So it's interesting to see what they may have gotten. Of course, they now said that he had a gray Dodge Charger. That's going to be a trove of evidence for them. They'll probably look for gunshot residue in the car, on the steering wheel, if that's the gunshot residue. And of course, the gun itself, the bullets, the purchase, everything else that they can trace that back to Tyler James Robinson or a close family member or someone. He may have obtained the gun from the surveillance video. They didn't share it all with us, y'. All. They have a lot more. There's a reason for that. If this manhunt were to go on a long time, they want to release new pictures every other day, every day if they can, to keep the media, you know, fired up and have this front and center for. For potential witnesses out there to say, hey, I know that guy. It happened with luigi. Somebody in McDonald's said, Hey, I know that guy. This guy on the news. It's because the story is up high, front and center, brand new information, brand new pictures. So usually law enforcement is smart enough to drib and drab out the photos and the surveillance video. And me thinks that they had a lot more. So that will be part of the evidence as well. Probably pretty good images of this guy if it's, in fact him. Witnesses. There's 3,000 people there. There's all sorts of witness accounts they still have to take in. Could be some that are really good. Could be the guy who was walking by him as he's allegedly running that grass to get north from the low C center and across the busy street and into the woods. Could be some of those cars passing by. I saw the guy, got a really good look at him. Could be a lot of different witness accounts, not the least of which the 3,000 people who were terrorized by that shot and the law enforcement who Are trained not to duck for cover, but to look right. They. They've usually got eyes on. They might have seen the figure running. They may have seen the limp. Maybe it's not a limp. Maybe that was an affectation because maybe a long arm was stuffed down his right leg. Because in some of that video obtained by TMZ Ring.com video of a neighborhood prior to the shooting, the suspect is limping along, or at least the person who looks like the person of interest who is now being named as Tyler James Robinson. He's limping along as though he may have something in his right leg that doesn't allow him to bend that and makes that leg heavier. It's not limping video. After dropping down from the roof and being hurt. I thought it was originally. It's video before the shooting. So that's interesting as well. Lots of witness interviews. And then there's dad. There's dad, and there's the family pastor whom dad reportedly reached out to to say, you gotta help me surrender my kid. And this family pastor is also apparently a US Marshal or connected to the US Marshals, whether former or current. I'm still working that out. A lot of details. So these are all witness accounts that will. That will come into a prosecutorial basket. That does not bode well for Tyler Robinson. There's the roommate. Reports from law enforcement are that there is messaging on discord. Discord says, no, no, no, it's not us. It's not our platform. I'm sure that'll get worked out. But the roommate apparently says there's messaging kin to go get the gun I left in the woods. It's wrapped in a towel. You need to help me out here. So that's a massive, massive witness account that will be pl. Their prior scouting videos. I. I just know it. Nobody pulls off something like this without checking it out in advance. You don't know that you've got that view to kill unless you know you've got that view to kill. You don't know you can access it or jump off of it. So I think that they're going over all of the videos prior to the shooting date to see if the suspect, Tyler James Robinson, in fact, without all the glasses and the hat, was out, scoping, climbing, looking around, checking it out, checking things could, you know, go easily where there could be problems. So prior video, I think, will end up being a boon to prosecutors in this case. I showed this on my News Nation show last night, but they're in one of the pictures that the law enforcement Officials gave out late last night on 9 11, around 10 o' clock at night, they, they doled out more photos and in one of them you could see a very specific outline of his phone in his right front jeans pocket. It's a big phone too, maybe, maybe a Samsung. But that phone is going to be a trove, just like it was for Brian Coburger. That idiot took his phone out of his apartment, got in his car, started driving, and then turned it off in the middle of the night, the night that the four kids were murdered. So that was a big piece of evidence. And then suddenly it turns back on as he's driving home conveniently after the murder. So this phone may in fact have been turned off or maybe was still on. But what I can tell you is that in the timeline that law enforcement has released to us, I noticed at 11:53, law enforcement says he pauses at the top of the stairs in a pedestrian tunnel and uses his phone. Bam. That's going to be real bad for this suspect. That's going to put him in a timeline and put him with pinging that may have him going to the roof. Even if he shut it off right away. It's just one more piece of the puzzle that makes him very much within the reasonable doubt that that's you up there. Okay, so those are the big things that I see and these are off the top of my head. But I will also say there are big problems with this prosecution. Not that they're not going to be able to find him guilty, but that they're going to have some hurdles because of things that have been done and said from the very top. The President went off and said, I think he should get the death penalty. That is not helpful. What that does is inflame everybody around this whole story, including all the people of Utah and says that the top law enforcement officer in this country, who is the commander in chief and the President has already called for the death penalty. So there will be a motion, mark my words, his defense attorney, when chosen and named, will file a motion to have death penalty taken off the table if and when the prosecutors who will seek it, seek it. And they will say, this has been so incredibly prejudiced from the get go because of what the President did and maybe other high, you know, ranking Senate senators and congressmen and local senators and congressmen and politicians, etc. Who may have said these incendiary things. You may think it's helpful for your YouTube feed. You may think it's helpful for your brand. You may just want to get it off your chest. You're not helping criminal procedure. Facts only. No politics here, okay? You're not helping criminal procedure if you do that, because what you're doing is you're infecting the jury pool. Oh, dear God. Let's talk jury pool. Mm. This one I'm worried about. So the jury pool in this case, if it gets to a jury, Coburger didn't. But if it gets to a jury, I am super worried about this jury pool. I'm super worried about how to voir dire them. What do you ask these people? How do you vote? Damn right they're gonna ask that. They're gonna probably investigate people's feeds to see if they're political, to see if they're aggressively political, if they're far right, far left. If they're just right, just left. Because in this particular case, no matter how you see this brazen assassination, brazen murder, taking of an innocent life, okay? No matter how you see it, the law will see it as political. It is. It's become that way from the very top on down. So in voir dire, people are going to have to be vetted to see what they're like. There are going to be people who want to be stealth jurors. There will be stealth jurors trying to get on the Luigi Mangioni jury. They want that guy freed. Those stealth jurors, some of them want him prosecuted. They want him to get the death penalty. Those stealth jurors depends on where you fall on the spectrum of the. Of the law and the politics of this, right? Some people love Luigi. They want to see him go free. Some people want to see Luigi go down for that execution on the streets of Manhattan. It's not who we are. You've heard the stories. So voir dire is going to have to get to the heart of that, right? You're going to have to find out who that potential juror is. And if they're lying and they just want a piece of the action and get into history books, or if they just love or hate the guy, then you got the politics, right? Then you got the politics of people who want to see him go to the firing squad. Because Utah has it. It's a backup measure, but they have it. Little known fact here. Actually, not too little known, But Brian Coburger's, ID, modeled the shooting gallery construction after the premises of the Utah shooting chamber for the death penalty. Utah has it as a secondary method. If they don't, if they can't get the drugs for the. For the injection. So, which is more and more so. What you're talking about here is Utah with a shooting gallery as a. As a possible death penalty. And people who are going to want to see him hang, get shot or be injected. And others who are going to want to Luigi Mangione him. You watch, the money raising is going to start. They're going to be free. You know, Tyler, he's our hero. He's our martyr. People in the far, far left are going to do that. People on the far, far right are going to say, put a bullet in his heart. Tape the, you know, tape the, the target over his heart and have the marksman all line up. So you're going to have to watch for that on the jury when this jury comes. And then I was really interested in reward money.

[Liberty Mutual Insurance Spokesperson]

And Doug Limu and I always tell you to customize your car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. But now we want you to feel it. Cue the emu music. Limu. Save yourself money today. Increase your wealth. Customize and save. We say that may have been too much feeling.

[Grainger Maintenance Supervisor]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty. Liberty Savings Ferry Unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates excludes Massachusetts.

[Grainger Concert Hall Maintenance Head]

This is the story of the 1. As head of maintenance at a concert hall, he knows the show must always go on. That's why he works behind the scenes, ensuring every light is working, the H Vac is humming, and his facility shines with Grainger's supplies and solutions for every challenge he faces. Plus 24. 7 customer support. His venue never misses a beat. Call quickgranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Ashley Banfield]

Does his father get the reward money? Because his father made this extraordinarily difficult moral choice and he turned his son in to face the death penalty. Maybe he didn't know it at the time that it's a death penalty that was being sought. Maybe he hadn't heard that. It's all happening very quickly. But this father made this tremendously difficult moral choice. Will he get the reward money? Because that family's gonna need it for a defense fund. I wanna bring in somebody who knows so much more about this than I do. And I love talking to Matt Murphy because he's a former homicide prosecutor in Orange County. He wrote the book, literally on murder. It's called the Book of Murder. It's a great book, not just because it's so interesting and factual, but it also just takes you through the gumshoe work that Matt Murphy did as he was a homicide prosecutor. So I highly recommend that you get the book of murder and you read Matt Murphy's book. But also, he's very measured in how he looks at these prosecutions. Criminal procedures, criminal procedure, no matter what color is on your ballot, no matter what you vote for, criminal procedure is just that. It's the juries that you got to kind of like start looking at because there are peers. They don't need to be black, white, female, gay, straight. That's not your peers. Your peers means Americans. That's it. Jury of your peers means Americans. Doesn't mean you get a bunch of whiteies or a bunch of black people or a bunch of, you know, Asian people or, like I said, any other demographic selection you want. You don't get that. That doesn't mean peers. In our Constitution, peers just means Americans. So in Utah, it's very red state. There will be a lot of probably Republicans, registered Republicans, that typically the jury notices come out from voter registration polls and licenses, etc. And they're going to have to be really careful if they're going to be choosing a jury for what is the most serious punishment that we dole out in this country, which is the death penalty. I still think they are going to seek it just because of everything that's been said up till now. But I am so curious as to how many people are going to make themselves known as Luigi. Look at me, I'm on Luigi. As Tyler Robinson haters or Tyler Robinson supporters. Let me just ask Lindsay real quick because we are live on YouTube right now if Matt Murphy is ready to go. He's signing in.

[Liberty Mutual Insurance Spokesperson]

Yay.

[Ashley Banfield]

I really adore Matt Murphy, by the way. I saw him at CrimeCon and we were both so busy running between panels. And if you were at crimecon. Hey, I'm still wearing my bracelet from the woman who gave it to me. I wish I knew who she was, but I'm still wearing it a week later. Thank you so much for this. It says CrimeCon Denver. I think it says 2025 as well. No, just CrimeCon Denver is starting to tarnish because I haven't taken it off. I literally am sleeping and showering in it because I love it so much. But I saw Matt in passing as we were both going to panels and both so busy, and I just wanted to stop and talk to him because I really, really like Matt as a person and I really, really respect Matt as a brain. And as, you know, somebody who just knows so much more about this process than I do. And even though I've been in it forever and ever, I just haven't litigated. I haven't been there in court. And he has. He's been in that. He's been on the other side of the. Well, I have not. So, anyway, Matt's going to join us in just a hot minute. Also want to let you know that something else is going to factor in here, and that is that Tyler James Robinson's parents are registered Republicans. What? I don't know if you knew that, but they're Republicans. He comes from a Republican household. Is that going to bring down the heat at all? I wonder if that's going to make a difference for those who are so angry at the rabid left. You know, like, is he the rabid left or is he troubled? He came from a Republican household. Yes. His father says that he had been expressing more and more leftist views in the last year. But, you know, he's got a mother and father as well. So do remember, just like Brian Kohberger's parents never did any of that. His sisters didn't do any of that awfulness. But they are victims in this. Just remember that Tyler James Robinson has parents. And if you're on the far right and you hate this guy, this alleged killer, remember who his parents are as well. They seem to be on your side. And for Tyler James Robinson, it's kind of weird. He's unaffiliated. He is not a registered Democrat. He hasn't voted in. In one of the reports I saw. I want to be really tempered in that. But reportedly he hasn't even voted in the last two elections. So this does have the early markings of somebody with severe mental illness. Somebody who's radicalized, but not somebody who is maybe doing this for a certain party or a certain group of people. Just sounds like Maury was doing it for himself and how he ended up. And I gotta tell you, if you live and die by your feed, please back away from your feed. It's not helping. Hello? I see Matt. Well, I see M. M for Matt and M for Book of Murder. Matt's signing on right now. And I'm so excited about this. Cause I have questions for him and for Matt. If you can hear me while you're setting up your camera, I just want to let you know I just laid out so much of the latest information and evidence that's been gathered in the Tyler Robinson case. This is just what we know. In the early offings. I mean, literally, the arrest was made about 10 or 11 o' clock last night, Eastern time, I believe. And the announcements were made this morning at 8am Eastern. So lots of information, still early. But what I don't do, mat, as I think you well know, I don't blurt out the latest garbage from social media and. Oh, my God, Matt, has it been a cesspool right from the minute Charlie Kirk was shot? I'm sure you saw some of it.

[Matt Murphy]

I don't think we've seen anything like it ever, actually. I think that in this country, we have never seen anything like we saw in that we literally have the wholesale celebration of murder. You know, all this, all this rhetoric about let's tone it down and let's be civil. You can't, you can't do that and then still have the leadership of half the country calling for violence. You know, and I live, look, I live in L. A more than half the time, and I'm about two miles away from the. From Maxine Waters constituency. And that woman has. Has called for essentially confrontation since 2016. And it's. You can't say we need to tone down the rhetoric and then keep heating.

[Ashley Banfield]

It up on both sides, right? On both sides.

[Matt Murphy]

Yeah, on both sides. And I want to. And I think we have to pay lip service to that. But right now, and look, I am down the middle, actually, I'm, I'm like you. I really, I call it as I see it. I don't belong to any political party. But this is, at a certain point that, that can't be an answer anymore. One side just can't say, hey, you guys are doing it too. Everybody has to tone it down. But, but honestly, this one came from the left and, and look, I'm not a political guy, but they, they can't say, yeah, but you guys do it, too. They have to. They have to tone it down. Because when you go out as a politician and you, you're. They're trying to get votes, right? All this hyperbole about. One of my favorite things that I've seen online is Trump is literally a Nazi. Literally a Nazi. And then you hear he's literally Hitler. He can't literally be Healer, you freaking dummies.

[Ashley Banfield]

You literally can't. Yeah, no, it literally can't be Healer. So, because we're live, and I know we have so many people in this, you know, in this particular livestream who are on both sides of the spectrum, I just want to make sure that you're. You're very aware. I mean, I just received an email from the RNC calling for Blood and listing out all the terrible things that Democrats have said, which are terrible, but that there is another email coming any minute now from the DNC listing out all the terrible things that Republicans have said. And so it is a equal opportunity offender the way people are behaving. What I also wanted to point out to you, though, was the garbage that was going out online about who did it. I just saw an interview with a man in Toronto who went out everywhere online as the killer. He was shopping in, like, downtown Toronto when the shooting happened. And, you know, his life just has. He's. It's just turned upside down because of how terrible people are with their feeds and assuming the first thing they see is true. Send it. Like, what is with us? Why can't we be more discerning?

[Matt Murphy]

Well, this is like the conversation we had about Coburger, right? That lady that came out who had it all figured out that it was a professor at the school. Some totally innocent professor ruined her life. And she was adamant. And then there were, There were. There was legal action taken against her and she kept going anyway. And look, a very wise journalist once told me, it's like people used to throw peanuts at their screen. And I'm talking about you, of course. And now it's like, it's, it's the, The. The product of our modern day. Is that virtual daggers. Peanuts again. Yeah, now it's. Now it's keyboard warriors. But you get enough of them together and that's what people need to understand. When you're deep, when you deal with murder cases, and I did it for 17 years, when you've got people on both sides who are trying to galvanize people and motivate them so they'll go out and vote, vote for them, vote against their opponent, whatever it may be. What they need to remember is there are a lot of dumb people out there that actually believe the rhetoric. And there are. And there are mentally ill people. And what this particular guy is, whether he's mentally ill or just stupid, remains to be seen. But maybe a combination of.

[Ashley Banfield]

I think it's a combo, right? Because, my God, Matt, there's a piece of evidence. I was doing this before you signed on, but there's a piece in the TikTok, and I say TikTok as a time, not as a social media platform, but in the timeline. At 11:53am the suspect pauses at the top of the stairs in a pedestrian tunnel and uses his cell phone. I can't believe it. Just can't believe it.

[Matt Murphy]

Right. Well, we knew that the, you know, and whoever he called better stand by because I guarantee that the FBI will be knocking on that person's door if they haven't already, as they should be in something like this.

[Ashley Banfield]

Might have been Mom. Might have been Mom. I just wanted to say I love you because he might have thought I may not survive this could have been right.

[Matt Murphy]

And that may be the phone call. And look, kudos to his parents because they turned him in. You know, and that's got to be a very difficult thing for a parent to do, but this one they did. They did the right thing.

[Ashley Banfield]

Can I tell you something? My moral speedometer has been just racing and breaking since I heard that. And I thought about, you know, morally, of course, we all want to do the right thing, but could you turn your own son over, especially if he's mentally ill and, you know, you've seen the devolution. Could you turn him over to the death penalty? To the firing squad, potentially in Utah? I am going to go out on a limb here and say I'm not sure I can. I don't even want to put myself into the imaginary contest, but, oh, God, I'm not sure I could do it.

[Matt Murphy]

Well, depending on the level of mental illness, that's a factor in mitigation that the jury will be instructed to consider. And in fact, depending on how bad it is, is they may not seek the death penalty in the first place. I mean, I sat, as you know, I sat on that committee in Orange county for 15 years. I personally prosecuted eight death penalty cases. And when you have evidence of legitimate, not feigned, not. I'm hiring an expert to come in and say it's so. But actual mental illness, those are the cases that you. The prosecution will mitigate it usually far, far before it actually gets to bifurcated penalty phase.

[Ashley Banfield]

But Utah is a different animal, a very, very Republican, very red state. This is such a blight on Utah and also on the Republicans, you know, who are so angry that, you know, maybe they think a leftist Democrat did this. He's unaffiliated. His parents are registered Republicans. I'm hoping that softens things. I really honestly hope that brings down the heat a lot here, but I just wonder if they're gonna say, hell no. You know, we are like Coburger, we are gonna get. We are gonna seek the death penalty. This is a slam dunk case. And it's a. It's a. It was just a moral aberration right across the country. And sometimes I worry that people who are really sick might get Caugh caught up in that.

[Matt Murphy]

Yeah, well, that's, that's the thing, right? You have. You got on both sides. You get fringy folks who are either mentally ill or just really dumb who believe. Who believe the rhetoric. And that's. That I believe is on the leadership of both sides toned down. And we can say both sides. But this is one where, you know, this is, this is a day, I think, for the American left to reflect, you know, and, you know, hopefully we don't see any. We don't see a. Any sort of retaliation. Hopefully the, you know, Republicans rise above it. Again, I'm in the middle, but I'll.

[Ashley Banfield]

Tell you what, I think it's a day for all of us to reflect on the right and left because honestly, I immediately thought, oh, here we go again. There's going to be a. Your side did this argument. And that's what we were just in that was it July or August when the Minnesota speaker of the House was murdered and her husband was murdered and then another politician and spouse were shot. And that was the other side of the aisle. And, you know, it wasn't right then to castigate the whole Republican Party for that crazy person. These are crazy people. They do not represent the rest of this country or the parties.

[Matt Murphy]

Right. But they listen to a lot of this overheated, bellicose, divisive language in both. They see it from political leaders, but they see it from plenty of the media. And it.

[Ashley Banfield]

See it on their feeds.

[Matt Murphy]

They see it on their feeds. That's right. But look, this is one of those things that regardless of party, everybody needs to take a step back. This is a lot like the Mangioni. Mangioni case that we talked about it at a certain point. It has nothing to do with health care. You're talking about somebody who murdered a human being who was a father with two kids in that case, to prove a political point. And that is the definition of terrorism when you're attempting to affect public policy. We. With violence. That's what terrorism is, guys. And everybody who says, well, I don't condone murder, but. And they proceed. There's no thing that comes after the word but is condoning murder.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah. Stuff it up your butt, you know, if you say but after. Because I don't know if you saw my panel at CrimeCon when I was doing the Luigi Mangione panel, we asked everybody in the audience, put your lights on if you think Luigi's guilty. And it looked like the whole auditorium did. Then we said, put your lights on if you Think Luigi should go free. And oh, my God, like a third of the auditoriums, about a thousand people in there put their lights on. And I realized we're not in Kansas anymore. Can I ask you something about that? I think that Tyler Robinson is gonna be Luigi'd as well. I'm waiting for the gofundmes. I'm waiting for the legal defense fund and the lovers and the. You're my hero. And finally, someone had to do. I'm waiting for those people to start contributing. And I worry about the legal. The criminal procedure that follows. How do you voir dire the jury? How do you know? Half of them don't want to see a bullet through his heart, and the other half want to see him go free, like Luigi.

[Matt Murphy]

Well, you go through the process, you know, and that's. And that's done with questionnaires. One of the interesting things about high profile cases, actually, and I've done a bunch of them. So when those questions, questionnaires go out to your veneer or your jury pool, when they come back in, the vast majority of people really are. They. They will have heard about this. They won't know about the evidence against them. Most people are concerned about putting food on the table, you know, what their boss is doing, whether they're getting the promotion. Most people really are concerned about their own lives. And I've had cases where I believe the entire world was hanging on what was happening in our trial. And he hand out the questionnaires, and for the first we do batches of 90, there might be a half dozen who said, yeah, I remember that case had something to do with a boat or.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah, it's different though, right? This one's different.

[Matt Murphy]

This is different. People. People definitely will have heard of it. But as far as people really going through the evidence that we learned prior to trial, you'd be surprised how few people will actually take the time to do that and how they'll look for.

[Ashley Banfield]

The headline and then they'll. Maybe some will get aggressive and get all fiery on. On, you know, the interwebs.

[Matt Murphy]

But you can get a fair jury. You can always get a fair jury. Like in Orange county, for example, 3 million people. We've never had a change of any motion granted based on pre.

[Ashley Banfield]

3 million people. Yeah.

[Matt Murphy]

Yeah.

[Ashley Banfield]

3 million people is a good one. You know, like every single one of these big, you know, Casey Anthony's is always a change of venue because there's, you know, these are relatively smaller jurisdictions. But let me ask you something. What kind of investigation are you allowed to do, can you do into these potential jurors or do you have to be like on the fly in the actual courtroom and knowing what you're going to ask, like, can you, how could you investigate their social media?

[Matt Murphy]

You know, the traditional way of doing this, of course, is pre social media. So what you're supposed to do as a prosecutor is you're supposed to read the questionnaire and you are supposed to voir dire them when they come in and sit down. And you're not really supposed to do much more than that. But, but look, the questions themselves.

[Ashley Banfield]

Wait, wait, but stop there. Are you legally allowed to like, can you be googling in the courtroom while they're on the, the stand and they're being void yards? Hey, did you do this? Did you post this? Because I have heard of investigative work into social media. Potential jurors.

[Matt Murphy]

Look, there's no, I don't think there's any law, certainly in California, there's no law I'm aware of that's passed that, that prohibits that. It's a little creepy, but then again, I guess to a certain sense, due diligence. But look, when you talk about the, the questions on that questionnaire, actually one of the most important ones that is asked in every death penalty case is where do you get your news? And in our divided America, you can usually get a pretty good read of what their social media is going to look like based on where they're getting their news. Somebody who's a diehard adherence. Sorry, of msnbc. It's not something that is not somebody the prosecution is going to want on their jury because there are literally people on MSNBC not celebrating, but certainly kind of not. You know, and we all saw that clip. That guy got fired. That so and somebody.

[Ashley Banfield]

And by the way, it happens on every network when someone on the other side is targeted. The same thing happened on Fox with the Democratic assassination in many in Minnesota. This is like so tragic because I go back to 911 and Matt, I'm not sure if you know this about me. I was actually, I was a, I hate to say victim because there are so many real victims who were killed and murdered on 9 11. But I was hit with the debris by the falling debris of the North Tower and I nearly died. And it has taken me a long time to sort of process the emotions that go with nearly dying. And I'm a reporter, but I'm also a victim of America's largest mass murder on our soil. And I thought about how nobody blamed anybody that day and the Wall Street Journal had a front cover the next day that Joanne Lippman, who was an editor there, posted the other day, saying yesterday, saying, nation stands, I think, united in horror. But that was what it was. I recall for quite some time after 9 11, there was no party. We were all unified as Americans together who were targeted. Eventually, people took potshots at the administration, and maybe rightly so, for miss some signs, but it wasn't about your party did this. It was more, hey, you guys in the investigative community missed this, which is legitimate. That's legitimate criticism. But my God, there was none of this. And look how far we dropped.

[Matt Murphy]

And look, that's something that you and I have talked about this before, and I didn't know you were. That that happened to you. Ashley, I'm horribly sorry, but I'm glad you're okay.

[Ashley Banfield]

I'm okay. I mean, like I said, lots.

[Matt Murphy]

But the trauma of that. Look, the trauma of that is something that. That is lost. I see all these people celebrating it, and they're overwhelmingly young. Some of them are older, but I'm looking at them and I can tell you, like, dealing with murder victims and their families for 17 years. This is the apoplectic, multigenerational, unbelievable grief that loved ones go through. This man had two kids.

[Ashley Banfield]

He.

[Matt Murphy]

He. He would go out and debate in the marketplace of ideas. There was even a microphone up there for somebody to go up, and if they had a bet, if they had a counterpoint, he gave them the opportunity, whether you agree with them, disagree with them. He. He provided the opportunity to. To actually publish a better idea that would be broadcast to everybody.

[Ashley Banfield]

Prove me wrong. It said, let's engage in debate.

[Matt Murphy]

That's exactly what we're supposed to do in America. Right. And one of the things I keep hearing is, well, he practiced hate speech speech that is absolutely effing false. And I'm. No, I'm like, I'm not. I was no great adherent. I'm not personally religious. Like, there's plenty of things he said that I disagree with. Hate speech in the United States is. Garden is. It is in the United States. It's Barm. Gardner versus versus Ohio. And it is. It basically must be incitement to violence.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah.

[Matt Murphy]

That's what it is.

[Ashley Banfield]

It's codified. You can't just throw that bar about. Right.

[Matt Murphy]

It's different in the eu, but we're not in the fricking eu. We are in America, and in America, free speech is really important. And as soon as, like, that's not hate speech. Hate speech is not speech that you hate, guys. Hate speech is. Hate is speech that incites violence. Charlie Kirk never did that. There are plenty of people that disagreed. There were plenty of people that might have hated what he had to say. And there's a. There's a quote often attributed to Socrates. Right? And insults is the final refuge of the loser of the debate.

[Grainger Concert Hall Maintenance Head]

This is the story of the 1. As head of maintenance at a concert hall, he knows the show must always go on. That's why he works behind the scenes, ensuring every light is working, the H Vac is humming, and his facility shines with Grainger's supplies and solutions for every challenge he faces. Plus 24. 7 customer support. His voice venue never misses a beat. Call quickgranger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Shopify Advertiser]

Starting a business can be overwhelming. You're juggling multiple roles, designer, marketer, logistics manager, all while bringing your vision to life. But for millions of businesses, Shopify is the ultimate partner. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. Build a stunning online store with Shopify's ready to use templates, boost content with AI powered product descriptions, page headlines and enhance photography. Marketing is easy with built in tools for email and social media campaigns. Plus, Shopify simplifies everything from inventory to shipping and returns. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into. With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com try go to shopify.com try shopify.com try right, wait, repeat that.

[Ashley Banfield]

Repeat that insult.

[Matt Murphy]

Insult is the final refuge of the loser of the debate. Okay? And this is that on steroids. And one another thing I saw online is. Whoa. I guess Charlie Kirk lost the debate. No, he didn't. He didn't. He won the debate.

[Ashley Banfield]

He won the debate because when you.

[Matt Murphy]

Have to kill somebody to shut them up because you have no counterpoint. You have just acknowledged that you are in the wrong.

[Ashley Banfield]

And for those. You know what, since we're throwing these out there, I'm gonna quote Voltaire in a terrible, you know, bastardization in my own language. But I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. And if there isn't a better expression for America, I don't know one. I truly can't understand why we can't Recapture and rekindle. And I get it. I sound like I'm all fucking Kumbaya right now. But the truth is, someone has to be. Someone has to be a leader on both sides in both parties to try to bring this nation back together. Because when we are as one, we are unstoppable. We are unbeatable. I am a pious immigrant. I am American by choice and work. And maybe that's why I appreciate so much the history of this country. I got a perfect score on my exam when I became a citizen. And I truly believe that if we could just get our heads out of our asses and off of our feeds, we would be much better, much stronger, and much more prolific as a nation.

[Matt Murphy]

Yeah, look, I couldn't agree more, Ashley. And to all these people who think it's a good idea to post this stuff, this is different. This is different. This was a murder committed over ideas. And this guy was not. Was not a politician. They. There's no legislative impact on this. That. That was immediately affected. This was really, really bad for America. And. And these. I'm sorry, these morons who I keep seeing online celebrating this, like, you are alienating people who are going to love you, who love you right now that are like, I. My. I shouldn't say this, but, like, my sister was so upset over this. She's like, look, I know I'm going to lose friendship over this, you know, because anybody. Like, look, murder is never. Okay, guys, do you remember.

[Ashley Banfield]

Do you remember. Do you remember what I said in the panel on Luigi and I'm gonna. I'm gonna make merch out of it. I'm not kidding. I said, there are two irrefutable things that I can say as a journalist. I can state this without any compunction whatsoever. Puppies are cute. And murder is bad. No argument that is it.

[Matt Murphy]

No, it's true. True. And all these people dancing around, they have never lost a loved one to violent crime. They've never dealt with that apoplectic grief that you go through. And trust me, it is unlike anything that you can get when a loved one is taken away. Because from murder. I mean, losing a loved one to cancer, to car accidents is already the hardest thing we can go through. Losing a loved one to murder is worse. I mean, you can't compare, really, because it's human grief, but it is awful. It is awful. The families are never the same. This man had two little kids. Kids. And who will see that.

[Ashley Banfield]

Who will see that? Growing up much like the Kennedys, both Bobby's And Jack's kids watched their father's assassinations video as they grew. I mean, they will see that video. Those little babies, those beautiful little babies, innocent little babies will see their father bleeding out in front of 3,000 people.

[Matt Murphy]

I had a conversation about an hour ago with a client of mine who's a police officer and he's. This man has been in shootings, he's been, he's been to a million homicides, side scenes. This is a real pro. And what he said struck me. He goes, he goes, man, I thought I was dead inside from this. I thought nothing could move me. And he goes. And I watched that video and he goes, brother, I am disturbed. And I think everybody, everybody who sees it is. That's the ugliness of it. And I'll tell you what, the post mortem examination, when you witness the dissection of what was previously a vibrant human being, is mind numbingly shocking. And these people that are dancing have never seen that. They've never walked through a murder scene and they've never dealt with a family who's lost a loved one. Certainly they haven't, or they wouldn't be celebrating. Shame on every single one of them.

[Ashley Banfield]

You know, I wonder, Matt, and because you have been privy to a lot of forensic evidence, like awful photographs, awful videos, things that juries see, they can never unsee. I really wonder how many people who celebrated did not see the video. And I only say that because I'm pretty hardened too. I'm a war correspondent. I've seen horrifying things. And I burst into tears when I saw. I wasn't expecting it and I saw it and I burst into tears. And I think a million things flooded me at that moment. Where are we as a country? This poor man, the children that, the family, his parents. Nobody's talking about his parents. He's only 31. His parents are probably my age. You know, a lot of things hit me and just the brutality of it. I wonder how many people celebrated who actually saw the video. And is that weirdly an argument for not sanitizing what we show, what we edit, what we don't allow people to see?

[Matt Murphy]

Well, I just heard Megyn Kelly just went up and talked about that poor Ukrainian woman that was stabbed on the bus. And she made that exact point. And I've been thinking about it ever since she said it. And I, I do some MK true crime stuff. So I was watching that. And that is, you know, I, I think you're right, Ashley. I think that we are at a point in this country where before you celebrate it, you should actually have to witness the horror of it. Because that was a human being that was shot in the throat and it is unbelievably violent. It is horribly gruesome. And before people celebrate, they should take a look at that because that is a human being. You may disagree with that human being, but that is a human being. And if that becomes okay in political discourse, that's not a one way street. And I pray to God that, that we don't see acts of similar violence coming from the other side. And it's, it can't be that way or we will descend into even more madness than we already have in this country. And I hope, I hope the other side takes the high road here because I would like to see this be a turning point back towards civility and away from this bellicose, insane, hateful rhetoric that we keep seeing. I hope.

[Ashley Banfield]

I haven't seen anything from, you know, high on the shining hill from anybody of significant leadership. I have not seen anybody say, well, it started with the other side. I haven't seen that yet. I have seen a lot of this is inexcusable, this is unacceptable. And I hope that stays. It doesn't matter where. It's. Both sides are just, you know, deplorable. And I've got to say that the worst offender is your feed. I can't stress it enough how we need to back off our feeds. They are devouring us. They're devouring us emotionally, they're devouring us politically, they're devouring us as humans, they're devouring our empathy, they're devouring so much of who we really are and they're diminishing it. And you know what? It's a really good tool for our adversaries to just pump more into it, pump more at us. Because if that's what their mission is, they're winning. They are winning. They're dividing us and making us weak.

[Matt Murphy]

One of my best friends in the whole world is very. He's a hardcore lefty, always has been. He's been, we've been friends since we were little kids. And he's truly one of my best friends. When my mom had a stroke, he was the first one to her house.

[Liberty Mutual Insurance Spokesperson]

House.

[Matt Murphy]

And I think that what everybody has to remember is the other side. Most people, not the people celebrating this, but the vast majority on the other side are motivated by good. They see good. It's like the juries. Look, I tried 133 jury trials and that was a disparate group of people from different backgrounds, economic circumstances, race, culture, everything you can imagine. But the right and wrong of this was something. It's the. It's one of the last refuges where people can still agree. Good guys and bad guys, good and evil. You know, like that is that when it comes to crime, violent crime is never ever okay. And these juries would come together across the political spectrum. So I think people have to remember the vast majority of people are motivated by good. They just might have a different political affiliation or maybe their priorities are different as far as like where they want to be vote. This should never ever be okay.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah. This used to be the great unifier, right. Crime. And now it's just like, no, this has to be political as well. One last question for you. And I don't know what the answer is to this and I don't know if you are. I'm not sure if you've ever been faced with this. There's $100,000 reward for, you know, for information that would lead to the arrest of this suspect. And it came from his father. His father turned in his son. Does the father get that reward? And in turn that father is going to need that hundred thousand dollars to help defend his son. The cycle is a bit screwy.

[Matt Murphy]

Yeah. I think that what we can expect here is the public defender of whatever jurisdiction this. Because this young man was only. He's 22 years old. Yeah. So he's got no money and the parents aren't on the hook for that. I think we're going to see a public defender on this. My read on. On that. On that man. I've never met him, but a career police officer. I work with them every single day. I will virtually guarantee he's going to refuse to take any reward money for turning his own son in. I would, I would bet.

[Ashley Banfield]

I'd bet that walked back. I heard it walked back that he originally he was being reported as a retired cop from the Washington County Sheriff's Department. And the Washington County Sheriff's Department actually put out a statement recently. You know, the information flies fast saying that he's not. It's a mistake that there was another. There was another Robinson on the force, that they mixed him up. I'm not sure if he is a career cop, but I do know that he's not Washington county, she Sheriff's Department. But, but you know, even if he isn't.

[Matt Murphy]

Yeah.

[Ashley Banfield]

He loves his son. Right. He loves his son. He wants a defense for him.

[Matt Murphy]

I know. Yeah. But a man with the integrity to Turn his own son in. Which was, I believe, exactly the right thing to do. And you're right, it's a tough one. But here it was the right. It was the right thing to do, I believe. And I would. I bet. I bet he refused it. If he's a cop, I guarantee you won't take it if it turns out that that influence information was right.

[Ashley Banfield]

What if he knows his son is so incredibly mentally ill and they. And he is on the side of the defender, whether it's public or private defender, who is going to mount an insanity defense? Look, insanity is going to be a long shot. He ran. He knew right from wrong. But if he's going to mount some kind of mitigation, you know, a mental health mitigation, the family is going to need this. They're going to need some kind of financial help to get through this next three to five years. Years.

[Matt Murphy]

Yeah. But for a case like this, actually, $100,000 is nothing. Doing defense work like this, that's not going to get them very far. This is going to be a public defender case. I can virtually guarantee it. Unless. Unless somebody volunteers to go in and do this pro bono or, or for a minimal amount of money. Or the family, maybe they. Maybe they've got money and they're willing to pay for it. But I think. I think what we're going to see is we're going to see public defender's office. And look, there is at least one really good, in my experience, at least one really good, good trial lawyer in every PD's office around the country. There's somebody, you know, so that's, you know, when you, when you put their. If they put their top people on it, he will get a perfectly professional defense. I think. Now, I don't. Obviously, I've never dealt with that office before. I could be wrong there. But in my experience.

[Ashley Banfield]

Thank you.

[Matt Murphy]

When you get up to the homicide level.

[Ashley Banfield]

Thank you for saying that.

[Matt Murphy]

Majority.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yep. Because I want.

[Matt Murphy]

These guys are really good.

[Ashley Banfield]

I have always said it is a real mistake to say, oh, public defender. The. If you're poor, you don't get a good defense defense because they're public defenders. Some of the finest attorneys in this country, finest defense attorneys who are on the other side of the aisle from you are public defenders. So, I mean, I'm just assuming you feel the same way that you have come up against, you know, mighty challenges.

[Matt Murphy]

From some of the best lawyers I've ever tried cases against or were PDS in Orange county, or alternative defenders, which is part of the Same thing. They. Some of the finest lawyers. And look, the cream rises to the top. And when you're doing. When you're doing murders, especially if it's capital case litigation, the. The attorneys that do that, it's a very specialized area. They tend to be the best of the best from the defense world. Both. Both private bar and. And public.

[Ashley Banfield]

The alternative litigators are. Those are the ones that cycle in and do their time. They come out of private practice and they do their time in the.

[Matt Murphy]

Depends on. It depends. It depends on the jurisdiction. You've essentially, you've got the public defender, and then if there's a conflict, there's a thing called the office alternate defender, and then there's what's called the conflict panel. So if they go down, like in a gang case where you got like five co defendants, they'll go down and then they have the conflict panel, which are private attorneys that contract with the local county to accept cases like that.

[Ashley Banfield]

I think Rebecca Harrow is one of those. Right. Because they conflicted. They said you both can't have the public defender. So.

[Matt Murphy]

That's exactly right. So that's going to be. And that's Riverside, So I know all about that. That's. The PD would declare conflict because they have. They have divergent defenses for sure. And so the alternate defender of Riverside will represent Mrs. Haro in that case.

[Ashley Banfield]

Matt, you're so great. I called you and you scrambled, and I know you're three minutes late, four minutes now, late for your next appointment. And so I'm really appreciative of your wisdom and your. I don't know, you're just so magnanimous when it comes to just imparting the right information on audiences that need to hear it, even if they don't like what they hear. I really appreciate this.

[Matt Murphy]

Well, thanks for having me and thanks for letting me rant a little bit. This one. This whole thing just deserves me so much, and I worry. I worry about our country. I really do.

[Ashley Banfield]

On a lighter note, it was really nice to see you in the hallway at CrimeCon. I wished we'd had more time to talk. I really wanted to, like, have a drink with you, but it was so busy and you were running to yours, and I was. So let's try another time. Like, let's get together.

[Matt Murphy]

Yeah. Better do it in New York at Crimecon. It would have been very tough. Like, you got so many nice people there. Everybody wants you to sign. Like, I. My book came out, so everybody wanted me to sign their book, so.

[Ashley Banfield]

Awesome.

[Matt Murphy]

Yeah, we'll get it done another time. For sure.

[Ashley Banfield]

We'll do it another time. Half the time in New York. I'm on the east coast too, so we'll do it there. Thank you. Matt Murphy again. His book is the book of murder, Run, don't walk and get that book. I read it and I'm like, wow. I'm literally walking into these crime scenes with Matt. It was so cool. I appreciate it. We'll see you again soon, friend.

[Matt Murphy]

Thanks so much, Ashley.

[Ashley Banfield]

And folks, I'm really appreciative that you stayed with me through this conversation with Matt and hopefully you're a little bit more up to speed on some of the facts in the case. What the prosecution's gonna face going forward. Again, I don't do a lot of these live YouTube streaming videos, but maybe I should start. Maybe I will just do that. Like I said, as a live broadcaster, it ain't like I don't know what I'm doing. So what a dumb dumb for not doing it. Thank you everybody. If you're listening, I appreciate you. If you're watching, I appreciate you. This community of ours, the woman that gave me this crime com bracelet, all of you who tune in, I feel like you're just a very respons bunch. Take that message and pay forward something kind is what I ask of you. Just if you are anti this or anti that, just pay forward something kind to someone who maybe isn't like you or someone you don't even know. Put money in someone's parking meter. If you see they're about to run out and they're not there, save them from a ticket. It's just an act of kindness. You put into the zeitgeist and it will come back to you and it will make us all better. I just, I can't say it more. It's a kumbaya thing, but it really is true. We need to work on ourselves. We need to work on ourselves as people. We need to work on ourselves as followers. Social media followers. Watch it. Watch that feed of yours. Do not pass on and share the first load of garbage that comes through because it is a load of garbage. And don't take the bait. Don't get angry. Take a deep breath. Be with your loved ones and your family and and come back and be in the drop dead serious world. I appreciate it so much.