The Internet’s Most Chilling Theory: Was Bryan Kohberger Pappa Rodger? - Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield

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[00:04]
A
Hey everybody, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is Drop dead serious. When Bryan Kohberger shocked the world by up and pleading guilty to the Idaho student murders, a lot of people felt kind of cheated and still feel cheated. Not only because they wanted to see that stone faced cold blooded monster on the business end of a firing squad, but also because they wanted to know why. Why did he slaughter four innocent college kids whom as far as we know, he had never even met? Why did he use a hunting knife to butcher them? The truth is, even if Kohberger had gone to trial and been convicted and sentenced to death, we might never have learned his motive for such a despicable and senseless killing. But here's another truth. Secrets come out in all sorts of places, not just in courtrooms. Before he confessed to murdering Maddie, Kaylee, Zanna and Ethan, Brian Kohberger was a student of murder. He had a master's degree in criminal justice and he was working on his PhD. So he did years of coursework in forensics and criminal psychology, analyzing the methods and picking apart the the writings of killers who came before him. Among those killers, a psychopath named Elliot Roger. In 2014, Elliot Roger killed six people and hurt 13 others near the University of California, Santa Barbara. Before he killed himself, he stabbed three of his victims to death inside his own apartment. Coburger stabbed his victims, all four of them, inside their rented house. Roger shot two women dead outside the Alpha Fee sorority house. Kaylee Gonzalez, one of Bryan Coburger's victims, was a member of the Alpha Phi sorority at the University of Idaho. In fact, all of Kohberger's victims were part of Greek life, and two of them had been at a frat party the night before they were killed. Elliot Rodger penned a 137 page manifesto, a portion of which complains about a female acquaintance named Maddie who was ignoring him. Maddy Mogan was another victim of CO Burgers. And yes, I hear you. I can see connections anywhere if I look hard enough. And you can too. But when it comes to the Idaho murders, there is also the social media account called Papa Roger. After the kids were killed in their King Road house, but before Coburger was arrested, a user named Papa Roger popped up in an online discussion. And Papa Roger seemed to know things that only the police would know. Or maybe only the killer would know. Like the possibility that the killer had left his knife sheath behind at the crime scene. Which turned out to be absolutely true. And also the linchpin to tracking Brian Kohberger. Down in the days and weeks after the quadruple murder, the user named Papa Roger was dissecting the case like someone with inside knowledge. He asked pointed questions, he offered disturbingly accurate theories, and he often answered his own questions himself. Lucky for you, we have screenshots of the Papa Roger posts from two and a half years ago. They're actually really hard to find because many of them have disappeared. And the posts really do take on some new meaning in light of Brian Kohberger's guilty confessions. But first, I want to mention something about a news site that I just partnered with. It's called Ground News, and it's awesome, especially since these days it's really hard to know who's writing up propaganda and bias and who's just doing straight news. And this happens in true crime reporting, too. So, like take for instance, Jeffrey Epstein. Okay, back to the Papa Roger posts. Papa Roger was the username who popped up in the Facebook groups and the chat groups, waxing poetic on the King Road murders. Almost like he'd been there. The screenshots we grabbed from two and a half years ago are eerie when you read them today, especially since Brian Coburger has now confessed and we've had confirmation of certain details in the case. And again, these posts are really hard to find because most of them have been sort of disappeared. So here goes. On December 20, 2022, Papa Roger writes, ethan didn't live at the crime scene. Very possible the killer didn't know he was there. Thoughts? On December 11, 2022, Papa Roger asks, how long do we think the killer was in the house? And Papa Roger answers his own post, 15 minutes. Well, as it turns out, the killer was actually in the house about 15 minutes from 4:05am until about 4:20am when his white elantra was seen speeding out of the neighborhood. So tell me that's not eerie. Papa Roger asks and answers, 15 minutes. The killer was in the house. And that's exactly right. Papa Roger describes a picture on December 2, 2022, says, quote, this is on the high side of the house. They found evidence here. It is likely blood dripping from the killer or killers. Either they fled through this area or were parked there, this being the most strategic entrance point to the house. It shows planning. And wouldn't you know it? During the hearing where Kohberger confessed, the prosecutor read some more facts about the case. And it turns out that is exactly where Bryan Kohberger parked his car and then scrambled down a slight hill into the backyard of this home so that he could gain access through the Sliding glass door in the kitchen at the back of the house. Yes, strategic and yes, planning. It all makes sense. But that was Papa Roger. This was Brian Kohberger. And on December 15, 2022, Papa Roger asked this question. The killer has sexual dysfunction. Thoughts. On December 21, 2022, Papa Roger writes this Regardless of what has been released, I believe that this is a sexually motivated crime. Somebody responds. Potential reasons. House full of girls, House full of specific girl or girls. Party house. Was familiar with layout. Location dark wooded coverage, lack of cameras, distance from his own apartment./car, third floor windows, unobstructed view, lights on at night. Perfect for voyeuristic activities. Possible that the house fit a fantasy scenario in the killer's head, Reminded him of something from his past. Possible even a vehicle that reminded him of something. Slash someone who had spurned him. And Papa Roger responds to that observation when with the following word, quote, excellent. Almost like he's a professor talking to a student of crime. And here's the most damning post that leads most people to believe that Papa Roger is Brian Kohberger. When Papa Roger writes about the knife sheath on November 30, 2022, Papa Roger posts of the evidence released the murder weapon has been consistent as a large, fixed blade knife. This leads me to believe they found the sheath. This evidence was released prior to autopsies. Again, that was written on November 30, 2022, just over two weeks after the murders. But here's the deal. That was not public knowledge, not at that time, and it wasn't made to be public knowledge that a knife sheath had been left behind by the killer until January 5th, more than a month after Papa Roger suggested that that's exactly what happened. A knife sheath had been left behind. When Kohberger was a criminology student at DeSales University in Pennsylvania, he posted a Reddit survey asking convicted criminals to take an anonymous questionnaire, quote, for a research project. I am not exactly sure if this was a real project since it was posted In June of 2022, a full month after he graduated with his master's in criminology, and three months after he'd actually purchased a K bar knife on Amazon. Either way, one of the questions that he asks in the survey is, quote, why did you choose that victim or target over others? And on December 8, 2022, Papa Roger asks the following question. Why did the killer choose that house over all the others in the area? That same day, December 8, during the height of the search for the white Elantra, Papa Roger posts I feel like the white car isn't relevant. Interesting that Papa Roger would say white car and not Elantra. Is that Bryan Coburger starting to freak out that a white Elantra is on everybody's mind? So maybe I'll get in the discussion group and just poo, poo that and just call it a car, not an Elantra. On December 11, 2022, Papa Roger asks, do we think the killer took anything from the house? And Papa Roger answers his own question, quote, I do. I can't tell you if Brian Coburger took any trophies. We don't know that. Not, not now, not yet. But I can say this. When they searched his apartment in Washington, right, they didn't find anything of evidentiary value in that apartment. They found nothing connecting Bryan Kohberger's apartment and him in that apartment to the murders on King Road. So if he did take a trophy, did he take it to Pennsylvania with him? Did he put it in a secure place? Did he put it in a safety deposit box? Did he throw it away when the heat started to be turned up, like people were looking for the white Elantra? Did he get rid of it? And then when Kohberger was arrested on December 30, 2022, Papa Roger posts suddenly stop forever. And by the way, after that arrest, when they searched his parents home where Brian Coburger was separating garbage in the middle of the night using gloves, they didn't seem to find anything that they've told us about that tied him to 1122 King Road or to those four killings. Did he take something from 1122? Didn't seem to be at the Pennsylvania home, at least that's not something we've learned yet. But when the gag order is lifted, maybe we will. So upon the arrest, right, December 30th, we never hear from Papa Roger again. Is it a coincidence? Maybe. But maybe it's not a coincidence because there's also something that the FBI seized from Kohberger's parents house in Pennsylvania. The agents described it as a quote book with underlining on page 118 and we can't be certain which book the FBI is referring to. The affidavit does not get specific about it. But if it was Elliot Rogers catalog of sexual grievances, page 118 certainly speaks volumes. It reads in part, I lived in a college town full of young attractive students who partied and had sex all the time and I didn't get to experience any of it. None of the beautiful blonde girls showed Any interest in having sex with me? Not one girl. And I'm still quoting here. Women must be punished for their crimes of rejecting such a magnificent gentleman as myself. Two of Brian Kohberger's three female victims, Kaylee Gonsalves and Maddie Mogan, were blonde, and the house on King Road was known for its parties. We also know the Coburger went upstairs to Maddie Mogan's room first, where Kaylee and Maddie were both sleeping. He killed both of them right there in Maddie's bed before encountering Zanna on the way downstairs to the second floor and either following Zanna or chasing her to her room, where he killed her and then killed Ethan too. Because lo and behold, Ethan was over that night sleeping in that bed. Page 118 of the Elliot Roger book also says this quote. It came to a point where I had to set a date for the Day of Retribution. I originally considered doing it on Halloween of 2013. That is when the entire town erupts into raucous partying. There would be literally thousands of people crowded together who I could kill with ease. And the goal was to kill everyone in Isla Vista to utterly destroy that wretched town. But then, after seeing footage of previous Halloween events on YouTube, I saw that there were too many cops walking around. It would be too risky. One gunshot from a cop will end everything. The Day of Retribution would have to be on a normal party weekend. So I set it for some time during November of 2013. Bryan Kohberger committed his murders on November 13, 2022, after a big frat party that night at the Sigma Chi house. As it turns out, Brian Kohberger studied the manifest of Elliot Rodger at length while he was a criminology student at Desales University in Pennsylvania. And on my NewsNation show, Banfield, I talked to a classmate of Brian Kohberger's, a classmate who took the same course as Kohberger with the same professor, Dr. Katherine Ramsland. They studied the crimes and the manifesto of Elliot Rodger, and they also shared a biology class together. Here's my conversation with Josh Ferraro.
[15:47]
B
As a student, he was very astute, very diligent, and he was a pleasure to work with.
[15:55]
A
So when you say he was a pleasure to work with, was he a pleasure to work with because you're a man? Because all of the reports say if you were female, he wanted nothing to do with you?
[16:07]
B
Yeah, I could say that would be accurate. Just because during class and roaming around to Sales University, I never saw him really talk to anybody in the group project. He communicated with me via text and email, and we worked diligently on this project, coming out together with two others who really didn't do much in the project. But when it was time to communicate, he was easy to communicate and text and email and make sure the project and portions that need to be done were done. But in terms of his interactions with other students, the most telling thing I can say is he really kept himself. I remember vividly many times watching him in the Starbucks in one of the buildings, and he would sit there with his computer and his headphones in and keep to himself almost all the time. In class, he would answer questions from the professor, but you never really saw him engage or interact with really anybody, even myself. In our group, we didn't have many conversations because he would shut down any kind of small talk.
[17:10]
A
So, Josh, you know, you can remember somebody for no particular reason, and you can remember someone because of something like this. And suddenly you look at your memories through a different prism. When you look back at the man you see on your screen right now, when you look back at your time with him, do you see any red flags? Do you see anything that now stands out now makes perfect sense?
[17:38]
B
No, I can't say that I do. I mean, he was like a chameleon. I mean, for everything that's came out, some of the most heinous people look the most normal. And I'm not saying Brian Coburger looks normal whatsoever, but he definitely, in my aspect, doesn't raise any red flags up until this point and the past few years. But I did notice, you know, telling things that. Like how you kind of said my. This prism that I'm looking through in my past. And he really kept to himself something interesting. He always wore long sleeves, no matter if it was hot or not. And I just remember making that distinction because that was something odd that I noticed about someone, although it bears no weight and no meaning, and that he kept to himself almost all the time. And he was a commuter student, so he didn't spend much time on campus. He came to class and he left.
[18:33]
A
If you look back now, do you recognize anything in the patterns of the killings that he has now confessed to? Even though I understand Josh, we don't have all the details, we have a fairly good idea of what he did to carry out these heinous acts. But do you recognize anything in the patterns of what he did at 1122 King Road as compared to the things that you all were being taught, the things you were learning about other terrible killers?
[19:02]
B
Yeah, you kind of mentioned it earlier with Elliot Rogers and something I'd said in a prior interview with God knows who was that. In these classes we go over many times how in the digital age, these people will try to relive that fantasy. Digital age, physical age doesn't matter, but they're oftentimes going to go back to that crime scene. And one way to go back to the crime scene is to go under a pseudonym like Papa Rogers and enter a community and relive that high. That is something we went over in depth and kind of, if it does come out ever, that he is Papa Rogers, would say that's pretty shocking just because that's very silly to involve yourself in back into the crime and leave a digital footprint instead of, you know, being physically there. But we also know that he had went back in that morning, so he might have done both.
[19:57]
A
Do you think, Josh, that Brian Coburger is Papa Roger who showed up in those crime discussion groups after the murders?
[20:06]
B
Until someone else stands up and says that it was them, absolutely. I don't see any reason to say that it wasn't him. The pseudonym Papa Rogers in connection with Elliot Rogers fighters makes a lot of sense, especially if he did idolize him as, you know, the king of the incel community and wanted to do it, you know, even better, pay homage to his name and what he had done in the past. And I haven't seen anything online or anywhere that says that he isn't or definitively that he is. So it's all speculative, of course, right now, but it would not surprise me in the slightest if to relive that high, he entered that community just to feel everything that he felt that night again.
[20:50]
A
Pretty uncanny, the, the, the profile picture and the icon picture in the Papa Roger. Right. I mean, when I first saw it, I thought, well, that's a dead ringer right there, and what a stupid mistake. But then again, Brian Coburn made a lot of stupid mistakes if he thought he was so smart at committing the perfect crime. One last quick question for you, Josh. As a student of criminology, do you think you'll ever reach out to Bryan Coburger to try to ask him questions or learn more about why he did what he did?
[21:21]
B
Would I?
[21:23]
A
Yeah.
[21:25]
B
No, that's not my place. I mean, you leave that to Dr. Ramsland and the professionals. I run a swim school now. I have nothing to do with criminal justice anymore. I'm very happy where I'm at. Although, if given the opportunity to speak to him and just ask him why I think anybody would take that opportunity. So I guess I would say yes on that. And there better be other people in the room because, you know, I just. I feel for the victims and their families. And what he did, what he admitted to, now that he can finally say is atrocious and awful. And, yeah, everybody wants to ask him why. So I can't deny that I would ask him if given the opportunity, but we'll leave that to the professionals.
[22:13]
A
I said it was one last question. I lied. I have one more, and I'm sorry, I'm going to ask you anyway. Josh, he gave a plea. He confessed. There was no trial. There will be no death penalty. What are your thoughts about that?
[22:27]
B
Yeah, I wrote a paper about the death penalty in college. I'm. I'm for. I'm for the death penalty and I. For an eye. He took four lives and got to keep his. I think that's the most unjust, unfair thing. And as America, we should be able to speak out about these things and make sure that people like this, you know, get their just desserts. And he definitely is living a cushy life for the rest of his life. I'm a prior corrections officer. Jail is not that hard. You're away from your family. You have tablets, you have TVs, you have activities, you have games, you have people that literally hand you food. He is going to live the rest of his life in infamy. And I think that that's an injustice to all the victims, all their families, no matter how they personally feel, because I know some of the families felt different. I am a proponent for an eye for an eye, especially when it's four.
[23:20]
A
Josh Ferraro, can't thank you enough for this time. I really appreciate it.
[23:25]
B
Absolutely.
[23:26]
A
I'm Ashley Banfield. Thank you so much for listening. I am so appreciative that you're part of this community. And remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead seriously.

Summary5 min read

Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield Episode: The Internet’s Most Chilling Theory: Was Bryan Kohberger Pappa Rodger?
Release Date: July 11, 2025

Introduction

In this gripping episode of Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield, host Ashleigh delves into one of the most perplexing and chilling theories surrounding the Bryan Kohberger case. The episode meticulously examines whether Kohberger, the convicted murderer of four University of Idaho students, could be the enigmatic online persona known as "Papa Roger," linked to discussions reminiscent of Elliot Rodger's infamous manifesto.

Bryan Kohberger's Guilty Plea and Public Outcry

Ashleigh opens the episode by addressing the widespread feeling of injustice following Bryan Kohberger's unexpected guilty plea to the Idaho student murders. Listeners are reminded of the public's thirst not only for his punishment but for understanding his motives behind the heinous crime.

"[00:03] I know a thing or two about true crime... I’ve been reporting on it for 36 years. This is the podcast where I take you on a journey through mystery and injustice..."
— Ashleigh Banfield

The episode underscores the frustration that even a conviction might not fully illuminate Kohberger's reasons for targeting and murdering four young college students he reportedly never met.

Unveiling Kohberger’s Academic Pursuits

Delving deeper, Ashleigh reveals that Kohberger was not just an ordinary student but an avid scholar in criminal justice. Holding a master's degree and pursuing a PhD, Kohberger immersed himself in the study of forensics and criminal psychology, analyzing past killers to refine his understanding of their methods.

"[00:56] So he did years of coursework in forensics and criminal psychology, analyzing the methods and picking apart the the writings of killers who came before him."
— Ashleigh Banfield

Elliot Rodger’s Influence

A significant portion of Kohberger's academic focus was on Elliot Rodger, a psychopath known for his 2014 killing spree near the University of California, Santa Barbara. Rodger's manifesto and actions eerily mirror aspects of Kohberger's own crimes, particularly in targeting members of Greek life and employing similar weapons.

"[02:10] Elliot Rodger penned a 137 page manifesto... As it turns out, Brian Kohberger studied manifest of Elliot Rodger at length while he was a criminology student..."

The Enigmatic "Papa Roger"

The core of the episode revolves around the mysterious online figure "Papa Roger," who surfaced shortly after the Idaho murders. This user adeptly dissected case details with unsettling precision, prompting speculation about his true identity.

"[07:30] But when it comes to the Idaho murders, there is also the social media account called Papa Roger..."

Ashleigh highlights how multiple posts by Papa Roger anticipated specific details of the case, such as the location of the killer's knife sheath and the duration he spent at the crime scene.

"[09:46] The killer was in the house about 15 minutes from 4:05am until about 4:20am when his white Elantra was seen speeding out of the neighborhood."
— Papa Roger (as discussed by Ashleigh Banfield)

Analyzing Papa Roger’s Posts

The episode meticulously examines several key posts by Papa Roger, correlating them with confirmed facts from the case:

Knowledge of the Knife Sheath
On November 30, 2022, Papa Roger speculated about the murder weapon's sheath being left at the scene—a detail not made public until over a month later.

"[11:30] This leads me to believe they found the sheath."
Temporal Details
Papa Roger's precise estimation of the time the killer spent in the house aligns with the actual timeline of Kohberger's presence at the crime scene.

"[12:11] 15 minutes. Well, as it turns out, the killer was actually in the house about 15 minutes..."
Strategic Planning
Observations about the entrance and potential escape routes foreshadowed Kohberger's actual method of accessing and fleeing the crime scene.

"[13:45] It shows planning... But that was Papa Roger. This was Bryan Kohberger."

Interview with Josh Ferraro: A Classmate's Perspective

A pivotal segment of the episode features an in-depth conversation with Josh Ferraro, a former classmate of Kohberger at DeSales University. Josh provides personal insights into Kohberger's personality and habits, which eerily resonate with traits that would align him with the Papa Roger persona.

"[15:46] B: As a student, he was very astute, very diligent, and he was a pleasure to work with..."

Key Highlights from the Interview:

Chameleon-like Nature: Josh describes Kohberger as someone who was reserved but meticulous in his work, rarely engaging in small talk.

"[17:09] B: No, I can't say that I do. I mean, he was like a chameleon..."
Potential Red Flags: While Josh didn't observe overt warning signs during their time together, he notes subtle oddities, such as Kohberger consistently wearing long sleeves regardless of the weather.

"[17:37] B: ...he always wore long sleeves, no matter if it was hot or not."
Connection to Papa Roger: Josh doesn't express definitive proof but acknowledges the plausibility of Kohberger being Papa Roger, considering his alleged admiration for Elliot Rodger.

"[19:56] B: ...it would not surprise me in the slightest if to relive that high, he entered that community just to feel everything that he felt that night again."
Reactions to Plea Deal: Josh expresses dismay over Kohberger's plea deal, advocating for the death penalty as a means of justice for the victims.

"[22:26] B: Yeah, I wrote a paper about the death penalty in college. I'm. I'm for the death penalty..."

Conclusion: Weighing the Evidence and Implications

Ashleigh wraps up the episode by piecing together the convoluted puzzle of Papa Roger's posts, Kohberger's academic background, and the chilling possibility that the convicted murderer may have orchestrated his own digital shadow to dissect and perhaps even revel in his heinous acts.

The convergence of Kohberger's deep dive into criminal psychology, his possible fascination with Elliot Rodger, and the uncanny accuracy of Papa Roger's online conjectures create a compelling narrative that blurs the lines between perpetrator and profiler.

"[23:24] A: I'm Ashley Banfield. Thank you so much for listening. I am so appreciative that you're part of this community. And remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead seriously."

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a profound exploration into the dark intersections of academia, online anonymity, and criminal intent. Ashleigh Banfield masterfully navigates through intricate details, expert interviews, and speculative theories to present a comprehensive analysis of one of the internet's most chilling true crime theories.

Listeners are left pondering the depths of human psychology and the potential for individuals like Kohberger to manipulate digital platforms in the wake of their crimes, leaving a trail that is as perplexing as it is disturbing.

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Transcript19 lines

[00:04]
A
Hey everybody, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is Drop dead serious. When Bryan Kohberger shocked the world by up and pleading guilty to the Idaho student murders, a lot of people felt kind of cheated and still feel cheated. Not only because they wanted to see that stone faced cold blooded monster on the business end of a firing squad, but also because they wanted to know why. Why did he slaughter four innocent college kids whom as far as we know, he had never even met? Why did he use a hunting knife to butcher them? The truth is, even if Kohberger had gone to trial and been convicted and sentenced to death, we might never have learned his motive for such a despicable and senseless killing. But here's another truth. Secrets come out in all sorts of places, not just in courtrooms. Before he confessed to murdering Maddie, Kaylee, Zanna and Ethan, Brian Kohberger was a student of murder. He had a master's degree in criminal justice and he was working on his PhD. So he did years of coursework in forensics and criminal psychology, analyzing the methods and picking apart the the writings of killers who came before him. Among those killers, a psychopath named Elliot Roger. In 2014, Elliot Roger killed six people and hurt 13 others near the University of California, Santa Barbara. Before he killed himself, he stabbed three of his victims to death inside his own apartment. Coburger stabbed his victims, all four of them, inside their rented house. Roger shot two women dead outside the Alpha Fee sorority house. Kaylee Gonzalez, one of Bryan Coburger's victims, was a member of the Alpha Phi sorority at the University of Idaho. In fact, all of Kohberger's victims were part of Greek life, and two of them had been at a frat party the night before they were killed. Elliot Rodger penned a 137 page manifesto, a portion of which complains about a female acquaintance named Maddie who was ignoring him. Maddy Mogan was another victim of CO Burgers. And yes, I hear you. I can see connections anywhere if I look hard enough. And you can too. But when it comes to the Idaho murders, there is also the social media account called Papa Roger. After the kids were killed in their King Road house, but before Coburger was arrested, a user named Papa Roger popped up in an online discussion. And Papa Roger seemed to know things that only the police would know. Or maybe only the killer would know. Like the possibility that the killer had left his knife sheath behind at the crime scene. Which turned out to be absolutely true. And also the linchpin to tracking Brian Kohberger. Down in the days and weeks after the quadruple murder, the user named Papa Roger was dissecting the case like someone with inside knowledge. He asked pointed questions, he offered disturbingly accurate theories, and he often answered his own questions himself. Lucky for you, we have screenshots of the Papa Roger posts from two and a half years ago. They're actually really hard to find because many of them have disappeared. And the posts really do take on some new meaning in light of Brian Kohberger's guilty confessions. But first, I want to mention something about a news site that I just partnered with. It's called Ground News, and it's awesome, especially since these days it's really hard to know who's writing up propaganda and bias and who's just doing straight news. And this happens in true crime reporting, too. So, like take for instance, Jeffrey Epstein. Okay, back to the Papa Roger posts. Papa Roger was the username who popped up in the Facebook groups and the chat groups, waxing poetic on the King Road murders. Almost like he'd been there. The screenshots we grabbed from two and a half years ago are eerie when you read them today, especially since Brian Coburger has now confessed and we've had confirmation of certain details in the case. And again, these posts are really hard to find because most of them have been sort of disappeared. So here goes. On December 20, 2022, Papa Roger writes, ethan didn't live at the crime scene. Very possible the killer didn't know he was there. Thoughts? On December 11, 2022, Papa Roger asks, how long do we think the killer was in the house? And Papa Roger answers his own post, 15 minutes. Well, as it turns out, the killer was actually in the house about 15 minutes from 4:05am until about 4:20am when his white elantra was seen speeding out of the neighborhood. So tell me that's not eerie. Papa Roger asks and answers, 15 minutes. The killer was in the house. And that's exactly right. Papa Roger describes a picture on December 2, 2022, says, quote, this is on the high side of the house. They found evidence here. It is likely blood dripping from the killer or killers. Either they fled through this area or were parked there, this being the most strategic entrance point to the house. It shows planning. And wouldn't you know it? During the hearing where Kohberger confessed, the prosecutor read some more facts about the case. And it turns out that is exactly where Bryan Kohberger parked his car and then scrambled down a slight hill into the backyard of this home so that he could gain access through the Sliding glass door in the kitchen at the back of the house. Yes, strategic and yes, planning. It all makes sense. But that was Papa Roger. This was Brian Kohberger. And on December 15, 2022, Papa Roger asked this question. The killer has sexual dysfunction. Thoughts. On December 21, 2022, Papa Roger writes this Regardless of what has been released, I believe that this is a sexually motivated crime. Somebody responds. Potential reasons. House full of girls, House full of specific girl or girls. Party house. Was familiar with layout. Location dark wooded coverage, lack of cameras, distance from his own apartment./car, third floor windows, unobstructed view, lights on at night. Perfect for voyeuristic activities. Possible that the house fit a fantasy scenario in the killer's head, Reminded him of something from his past. Possible even a vehicle that reminded him of something. Slash someone who had spurned him. And Papa Roger responds to that observation when with the following word, quote, excellent. Almost like he's a professor talking to a student of crime. And here's the most damning post that leads most people to believe that Papa Roger is Brian Kohberger. When Papa Roger writes about the knife sheath on November 30, 2022, Papa Roger posts of the evidence released the murder weapon has been consistent as a large, fixed blade knife. This leads me to believe they found the sheath. This evidence was released prior to autopsies. Again, that was written on November 30, 2022, just over two weeks after the murders. But here's the deal. That was not public knowledge, not at that time, and it wasn't made to be public knowledge that a knife sheath had been left behind by the killer until January 5th, more than a month after Papa Roger suggested that that's exactly what happened. A knife sheath had been left behind. When Kohberger was a criminology student at DeSales University in Pennsylvania, he posted a Reddit survey asking convicted criminals to take an anonymous questionnaire, quote, for a research project. I am not exactly sure if this was a real project since it was posted In June of 2022, a full month after he graduated with his master's in criminology, and three months after he'd actually purchased a K bar knife on Amazon. Either way, one of the questions that he asks in the survey is, quote, why did you choose that victim or target over others? And on December 8, 2022, Papa Roger asks the following question. Why did the killer choose that house over all the others in the area? That same day, December 8, during the height of the search for the white Elantra, Papa Roger posts I feel like the white car isn't relevant. Interesting that Papa Roger would say white car and not Elantra. Is that Bryan Coburger starting to freak out that a white Elantra is on everybody's mind? So maybe I'll get in the discussion group and just poo, poo that and just call it a car, not an Elantra. On December 11, 2022, Papa Roger asks, do we think the killer took anything from the house? And Papa Roger answers his own question, quote, I do. I can't tell you if Brian Coburger took any trophies. We don't know that. Not, not now, not yet. But I can say this. When they searched his apartment in Washington, right, they didn't find anything of evidentiary value in that apartment. They found nothing connecting Bryan Kohberger's apartment and him in that apartment to the murders on King Road. So if he did take a trophy, did he take it to Pennsylvania with him? Did he put it in a secure place? Did he put it in a safety deposit box? Did he throw it away when the heat started to be turned up, like people were looking for the white Elantra? Did he get rid of it? And then when Kohberger was arrested on December 30, 2022, Papa Roger posts suddenly stop forever. And by the way, after that arrest, when they searched his parents home where Brian Coburger was separating garbage in the middle of the night using gloves, they didn't seem to find anything that they've told us about that tied him to 1122 King Road or to those four killings. Did he take something from 1122? Didn't seem to be at the Pennsylvania home, at least that's not something we've learned yet. But when the gag order is lifted, maybe we will. So upon the arrest, right, December 30th, we never hear from Papa Roger again. Is it a coincidence? Maybe. But maybe it's not a coincidence because there's also something that the FBI seized from Kohberger's parents house in Pennsylvania. The agents described it as a quote book with underlining on page 118 and we can't be certain which book the FBI is referring to. The affidavit does not get specific about it. But if it was Elliot Rogers catalog of sexual grievances, page 118 certainly speaks volumes. It reads in part, I lived in a college town full of young attractive students who partied and had sex all the time and I didn't get to experience any of it. None of the beautiful blonde girls showed Any interest in having sex with me? Not one girl. And I'm still quoting here. Women must be punished for their crimes of rejecting such a magnificent gentleman as myself. Two of Brian Kohberger's three female victims, Kaylee Gonsalves and Maddie Mogan, were blonde, and the house on King Road was known for its parties. We also know the Coburger went upstairs to Maddie Mogan's room first, where Kaylee and Maddie were both sleeping. He killed both of them right there in Maddie's bed before encountering Zanna on the way downstairs to the second floor and either following Zanna or chasing her to her room, where he killed her and then killed Ethan too. Because lo and behold, Ethan was over that night sleeping in that bed. Page 118 of the Elliot Roger book also says this quote. It came to a point where I had to set a date for the Day of Retribution. I originally considered doing it on Halloween of 2013. That is when the entire town erupts into raucous partying. There would be literally thousands of people crowded together who I could kill with ease. And the goal was to kill everyone in Isla Vista to utterly destroy that wretched town. But then, after seeing footage of previous Halloween events on YouTube, I saw that there were too many cops walking around. It would be too risky. One gunshot from a cop will end everything. The Day of Retribution would have to be on a normal party weekend. So I set it for some time during November of 2013. Bryan Kohberger committed his murders on November 13, 2022, after a big frat party that night at the Sigma Chi house. As it turns out, Brian Kohberger studied the manifest of Elliot Rodger at length while he was a criminology student at Desales University in Pennsylvania. And on my NewsNation show, Banfield, I talked to a classmate of Brian Kohberger's, a classmate who took the same course as Kohberger with the same professor, Dr. Katherine Ramsland. They studied the crimes and the manifesto of Elliot Rodger, and they also shared a biology class together. Here's my conversation with Josh Ferraro.
[15:47]
B
As a student, he was very astute, very diligent, and he was a pleasure to work with.
[15:55]
A
So when you say he was a pleasure to work with, was he a pleasure to work with because you're a man? Because all of the reports say if you were female, he wanted nothing to do with you?
[16:07]
B
Yeah, I could say that would be accurate. Just because during class and roaming around to Sales University, I never saw him really talk to anybody in the group project. He communicated with me via text and email, and we worked diligently on this project, coming out together with two others who really didn't do much in the project. But when it was time to communicate, he was easy to communicate and text and email and make sure the project and portions that need to be done were done. But in terms of his interactions with other students, the most telling thing I can say is he really kept himself. I remember vividly many times watching him in the Starbucks in one of the buildings, and he would sit there with his computer and his headphones in and keep to himself almost all the time. In class, he would answer questions from the professor, but you never really saw him engage or interact with really anybody, even myself. In our group, we didn't have many conversations because he would shut down any kind of small talk.
[17:10]
A
So, Josh, you know, you can remember somebody for no particular reason, and you can remember someone because of something like this. And suddenly you look at your memories through a different prism. When you look back at the man you see on your screen right now, when you look back at your time with him, do you see any red flags? Do you see anything that now stands out now makes perfect sense?
[17:38]
B
No, I can't say that I do. I mean, he was like a chameleon. I mean, for everything that's came out, some of the most heinous people look the most normal. And I'm not saying Brian Coburger looks normal whatsoever, but he definitely, in my aspect, doesn't raise any red flags up until this point and the past few years. But I did notice, you know, telling things that. Like how you kind of said my. This prism that I'm looking through in my past. And he really kept to himself something interesting. He always wore long sleeves, no matter if it was hot or not. And I just remember making that distinction because that was something odd that I noticed about someone, although it bears no weight and no meaning, and that he kept to himself almost all the time. And he was a commuter student, so he didn't spend much time on campus. He came to class and he left.
[18:33]
A
If you look back now, do you recognize anything in the patterns of the killings that he has now confessed to? Even though I understand Josh, we don't have all the details, we have a fairly good idea of what he did to carry out these heinous acts. But do you recognize anything in the patterns of what he did at 1122 King Road as compared to the things that you all were being taught, the things you were learning about other terrible killers?
[19:02]
B
Yeah, you kind of mentioned it earlier with Elliot Rogers and something I'd said in a prior interview with God knows who was that. In these classes we go over many times how in the digital age, these people will try to relive that fantasy. Digital age, physical age doesn't matter, but they're oftentimes going to go back to that crime scene. And one way to go back to the crime scene is to go under a pseudonym like Papa Rogers and enter a community and relive that high. That is something we went over in depth and kind of, if it does come out ever, that he is Papa Rogers, would say that's pretty shocking just because that's very silly to involve yourself in back into the crime and leave a digital footprint instead of, you know, being physically there. But we also know that he had went back in that morning, so he might have done both.
[19:57]
A
Do you think, Josh, that Brian Coburger is Papa Roger who showed up in those crime discussion groups after the murders?
[20:06]
B
Until someone else stands up and says that it was them, absolutely. I don't see any reason to say that it wasn't him. The pseudonym Papa Rogers in connection with Elliot Rogers fighters makes a lot of sense, especially if he did idolize him as, you know, the king of the incel community and wanted to do it, you know, even better, pay homage to his name and what he had done in the past. And I haven't seen anything online or anywhere that says that he isn't or definitively that he is. So it's all speculative, of course, right now, but it would not surprise me in the slightest if to relive that high, he entered that community just to feel everything that he felt that night again.
[20:50]
A
Pretty uncanny, the, the, the profile picture and the icon picture in the Papa Roger. Right. I mean, when I first saw it, I thought, well, that's a dead ringer right there, and what a stupid mistake. But then again, Brian Coburn made a lot of stupid mistakes if he thought he was so smart at committing the perfect crime. One last quick question for you, Josh. As a student of criminology, do you think you'll ever reach out to Bryan Coburger to try to ask him questions or learn more about why he did what he did?
[21:21]
B
Would I?
[21:23]
A
Yeah.
[21:25]
B
No, that's not my place. I mean, you leave that to Dr. Ramsland and the professionals. I run a swim school now. I have nothing to do with criminal justice anymore. I'm very happy where I'm at. Although, if given the opportunity to speak to him and just ask him why I think anybody would take that opportunity. So I guess I would say yes on that. And there better be other people in the room because, you know, I just. I feel for the victims and their families. And what he did, what he admitted to, now that he can finally say is atrocious and awful. And, yeah, everybody wants to ask him why. So I can't deny that I would ask him if given the opportunity, but we'll leave that to the professionals.
[22:13]
A
I said it was one last question. I lied. I have one more, and I'm sorry, I'm going to ask you anyway. Josh, he gave a plea. He confessed. There was no trial. There will be no death penalty. What are your thoughts about that?
[22:27]
B
Yeah, I wrote a paper about the death penalty in college. I'm. I'm for. I'm for the death penalty and I. For an eye. He took four lives and got to keep his. I think that's the most unjust, unfair thing. And as America, we should be able to speak out about these things and make sure that people like this, you know, get their just desserts. And he definitely is living a cushy life for the rest of his life. I'm a prior corrections officer. Jail is not that hard. You're away from your family. You have tablets, you have TVs, you have activities, you have games, you have people that literally hand you food. He is going to live the rest of his life in infamy. And I think that that's an injustice to all the victims, all their families, no matter how they personally feel, because I know some of the families felt different. I am a proponent for an eye for an eye, especially when it's four.
[23:20]
A
Josh Ferraro, can't thank you enough for this time. I really appreciate it.
[23:25]
B
Absolutely.
[23:26]
A
I'm Ashley Banfield. Thank you so much for listening. I am so appreciative that you're part of this community. And remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead seriously.