← Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
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- [00:00]
Ashley Banfield
Foreign Hi, everybody, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is a bonus episode of Drop Dead Serious. And I always tell you to subscribe so you don't miss these bonus episodes. But I just found out some information a couple of hours ago and been processing it, figuring out what it means. But the judge in the Idaho quadruple murder case is now contemplating the possibility of delaying the trial. It's supposed to start the second week of August. Jury selection is supposed to start the last week of July, two weeks of jury selection and then boom, into the evidence. But because of that Dateline episode, the Dateline episode that aired a couple weeks ago that just broke open so many scoops, so many details that have been under gag for like two and a half years. Bryan Coburger's lawyers are worried and they want a remedy of some kind of right now they're suggesting the remedy is to give them more time, delay the trial so that they can deal with the fallout from all of that leaked information. And it's a big, big deal because so much information was leaked and they're trying to find the leaker and they're trying to figure out the impact on the jury pool. And that could take time because we are really only a matter of weeks away, like, you know, two months, not even, I think, before this gets underway. And so I had to call Brian Enten right away and, and find out because he was in court just last week and find out, like all of the issues that this affects, all the different reasons this trial might be delayed, and even more importantly, one very important remedy the judge might be able to take that nobody who's really, really invested in this case might appreciate. So here's my conversation with Brian. Okay, Brian. Oh my God. You know, I suspected that the Dateline revelations might cause a little trouble, but I did not suspect they could cause a delay.
- [02:02]
Brian Enten
Yeah, I mean, I had a feeling that the defense was going to. I mean, they've been trying everything to delay the trial. So it doesn't surprise me that they filed this 40 page brief that I've been going through. I would say like 3/4 of it are things that you would expect. Just like, oh, we need more time to go through the evidence, kind of the standard stuff you hear. But the last 25%, like, oh my gosh, that's where they really dig in on Dateline. The fact that, you know, that this leak happened and that they need to figure out what happened before they can move forward with the trial. And then I don't know if you saw this, they even called out James Patterson, best selling author James Patterson, and said that he plans to release a book 16 days before the trial. And they suspect there will be even more leaked information in that book. So they use that too to say like, we got it, we got to slow everything down.
- [02:55]
Ashley Banfield
We gotta wait for that book. And then we only have 16 days to deal with what's in that book. You know, how fast do you read a book? It takes me a whole year. Yeah, but you know, something stood out to me in the, the motions that were filed after Dateline. And one was the preservation notice. If anybody out there is familiar with the way legal cases often work, especially civil ones, but in this particular case, criminal, you know, a motion will go out, a notice will go out to preserve your email. Do not start deleting because we have some action we're about to take, whether we're going to sue you or whether we're going to compel and subpoena your, your personal records, whatever. Do not delete. And so this preservation notice went out to like everybody who could have been the leaker. So all the police officers, all of the court officers, everybody with the defense, everybody with the prosecution, they all had preservation notices. Okay, so now imagine how many terabytes of information are in my email alone. Mine alone, I get 800 a day. Texts, emails, teams, all the rest. Now multiply that by everybody who's in the preservation notice. Do you know how many terabytes of information they have to go through to find out what else is out there, who the leaker was to try to like resolve this problem? I could see that. Taking a year, that alone.
- [04:25]
Brian Enten
Yeah. And who's going through it? We don't even really know. I mean, they told everybody to preserve it. And he said that he's considering appointing a special prosecutor, which would be someone from the outside to come in who would have like subpoena rights and could actually investigate this whole leak and try to figure out who it is. But he hasn't actually done it. So I'm interested to see how this plays out. Look, this judge, I told you, Ash last time, I mean, he does not play around. He seems like he's personally offended by the violation of the gag order. Like, that was the sense that I got in court. Like, he is ticked off. Like, personally, like he, he's like, you know what I mean? Like, and I don't know, I just, I think it's going to be really, I don't know, I just feel for the families. I mean, if they end up delaying this thing. Everybody got Airbnbs and hotel rooms and they had to take the time off work. I mean, you have to really plan to take three months off.
- [05:18]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah.
- [05:19]
Brian Enten
You know.
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Ashley Banfield
Yeah.
- [05:20]
Brian Enten
And I just feel for them if, you know, if this thing gets pushed.
- [05:23]
Ashley Banfield
I'm gonna go on record and ask all the bosses out there who may have a conn to a victim who is trying to make time in their schedule to find justice in their lives from a quadruple murder. Go easy on these people. Give them flexible time. Let them be, you know, let them, as Mel Robbins I think says, just, you know, make it easier on these folks any way we can. If, you know, if I were an airline, I'd say no charge for the change fees, all that kind of stuff, you know, and sometimes that, that does happen. But let's just remind the listeners and the viewers right now, Brian, like all of the things that were actually revealed in the Dateline why they were such a big deal. I mean, start with like the search history of Bryan Kohberger. Like they found. Well, dateline revealed that they found searches for Ted Bundy.
- [06:14]
Brian Enten
Yeah, yeah, that was something that we had. I mean, this gag order. There's so little that has leaked out. So all of it was really pretty explosive. And I had heard before the episode like, oh, just wait, this is gonna be hu. And I thought, like, okay, whatever. Like everybody says that about everything, you know, I mean, it really was the search history, the pictures, the selfies in.
- [06:35]
Ashley Banfield
The hoodie, porn in the black. In the black hoodie. Like, wasn't the selfies in the black hoodie taken the day after the murders? Or was that just what I'm thinking about in the bathroom that morning?
- [06:44]
Brian Enten
Yep. The day after. And the phone history and the fact that he called his parents. I mean, it was all really. And it was, it was. And this interesting. In the defense motion they talk about this. It's like the way they weaved it together to really depict a motive. You know what I mean? It seems like that's the problem. The defense has the show. I'm just reading this. The show repeatedly emphasizes the non public nature of this information, stating it was obtained from unnamed sources who are close to the investigation and that the materials were obtained exclusively. They talked a lot about the fact that they were exclusive, that that made it even worse. And then they went on to say that they believe that it came from law enforcement, which the judge didn't fully say that in the hearing, I don't think. But the defense is saying, like, all indications are it came from law enforcement.
- [07:38]
Ashley Banfield
I wonder if they think it came from law enforcement in Idaho or maybe law enforcement in Pennsylvania. Yeah, Pennsylvania, right. Because there's a Pennsylvania piece.
- [07:47]
Brian Enten
Yeah. And they may have had the phone first. You know, I mean, you think about those local troopers and stuff that were there.
- [07:55]
Ashley Banfield
So I remember you were there. You were at the jail. You. Of course, Brian gets all the sources in the world. You actually had a source in the jail who gave you all of this information about where he was being housed, how he was being dressed, where. Like, I remember there was an actual description from your source on this segregated cell that was all glass in the front where Bryan Coburger was being held overnight so they could watch him in his suicide vest. But. But I wonder, like, is. Is it possible that anybody at the Pennsylvania jail might have been able to do a download? Like, how long was he kept there? I'm trying to remember.
- [08:31]
Brian Enten
I don't think so. I mean, he wasn't there long, and I don't think the people at the jail would have had his phone. I mean, remember, this was all a coordinated. They had been watching him with the FBI and watching him go out to the trash cans. It wasn't like they just randomly picked him up and suddenly, like, you know, the jailers had control. It was kind of a planned thing. So I would be shocked if it was like, anyone at the jail who had the phone, but, you know, you never know. Pennsylvania State Police or. Who knows? I mean, it really could have been. It could have been anyone.
- [09:00]
Ashley Banfield
Well, someone in Pennsylvania definitely had his phone. Whether they put it into evidence right there at the house during the raid, my suspicion is it's like, in the middle of the night, he's allegedly wearing gloves and putting trash into separate baggies. Right. As a good forensics person would do if he might be guilty of a terrible crime and he's trying to hide trash. But my suspicion is that they would not bring him to the jail with. With a phone in his back pocket. They would have looked for that first. And that. That would have been instantly put into evidence, sealed in an evidence bag. And. And who did the. Who did the raid? Was it. Pennsylvania State Police did the raid.
- [09:35]
Brian Enten
They were there. FBI was there. Yeah. So there was several different agencies. But what I thought was interesting. I've just been, like, digging into this document from the defense, trying to delay things. Is one thing they're saying, Ashley, is that the reason they think they need to know who the leaker is before they can go to trial is because they're Saying they need to be able to judge the credibility of the law enforcement witnesses at the trial. And. And so without this investigation being finished and then trying to at least figure out who the person is who leaked the information, they're saying they can't do a fair job questioning witnesses, not knowing who it actually is. Which I thought was kind of an interesting argument.
- [10:19]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah, I'm trying to get my head around that. Just because you leak information doesn't mean you're not good at ferreting information out. It doesn't mean the information's bad. Maybe you're bad at holding it, but it doesn't mean you're bad at getting it, you know, and, and bringing it to trial. Because not every case has this kind of gag order. Cops are. Are doing this job all the time, and they don't have the. And I'm interested in you saying the judge took it personally. It's Judge Hippler. I don't know Judge Hitler from Adam, but I. I'm probably going to get to know him soon. But don't take it personally, dude. You're the one that put the gag order on the case. You're the one that made it so difficult for everybody that there is this massive effort to figure out what's happening for journalists to. To do their job. And so suddenly they do their job and you're mad.
- [11:08]
Brian Enten
Well, that's kind of. And it was Judge. Judge who first came up with the gag order, but Hitler ended up saying, yes, let's keep it, and I think even added a few things. But you're right. I was just thinking they're kind of living in this bubble in Idaho of, like, this is how things are. And like, I mean, to think there's a leak and now the whole case may be delayed. But you think about, like, Diddy and all of these other trials, there's all sorts of information that gets out through the whole thing. They found a jury just fine. It is kind of interesting when you think about a big picture. Like, gosh, is this really that big of a deal?
- [11:38]
Ashley Banfield
I mean, I was interested in your interview with Edwina Alcox in which she said, first and foremost, she said, look, for any of the reasons that the defenses wanted to delay, this one would be the one that they might actually get. And I like the fact that she was so clear about the appellate issue. It's like, if the families are upset about being put out now, and I understand, I would be, too, they will be upset by multiples if they have to go through all of this again, because something caused an appellate issue from this leak that meant a mistrial. And then in two years time, we're going to be here again.
- [12:21]
Brian Enten
Yeah. And you're dealing. It's a death penalty case. I mean, so it's life or death for Brian Kohberger. So that's what Edwina was saying. I mean, at the end of the day, you got to make sure everything is, every box is checked. And if they have to delay a month or three months, I mean, Brian.
- [12:37]
Ashley Banfield
What do you think the judge could do to satisfy the parties without changing the schedule?
- [12:47]
Brian Enten
I don't know. I've been wondering about that. Is there some kind of like negotiation? I don't know. You'd know better than me legally how it works. Is there some kind of negotiation that could happen behind the scenes? Like, you know, we'll take the death penalty off the table if we don't and we won't delay the trial and we won't get into all of these issues with, with the leaks. Could they get the prosecution to agree to that? I just don't. I mean, you know, some of the family members the way I do, I mean, a lot of them are very serious about wanting to see Bryan Kohberger fry die. I don't know that they would go for that.
- [13:29]
Ashley Banfield
Well, that's an incredible point if you think about Lori Valo and what happened in her case. The prosecutors were one day late with key discovery and they didn't even believe they were late. The, the law said that they had to meet a discovery request before this date and they met the discovery request on that date. It's the difference between the word on or before. And the prosecution screwed up and they gave it on the date which was one day late. And that is what took death penalty off the table for Lori effing Valo. So this is much bigger, right? This is, this is law enforcement part of the prosecutorial process, violating a critical gag order that has been in place for two and a half years for a reason. Right. They, they believe it was critical to have it, to keep the process pristine. And now the process is not pristine. So if Lori Valo got a, a freebie on the death penalty because of a one day delay in discovery that wasn't intentional, somebody misread on or before. I could see this being something whereby Judge Hippler could say, I have to delay this trial in order to make good on this problem of this violation. Or families, ladies and gentlemen, we could be here again because this could cause a mistrial on appeal. Right. This could be a huge appellate issue, and we could all be back here again in a year or two retrying this case. And you don't want that. You, you don't. You. You want this case to go to trial now? How about having to do it all over again?
- [15:15]
Brian Enten
Can the judge.
- [15:16]
Ashley Banfield
And he could say, though, I mean.
- [15:18]
Brian Enten
Oh, sure, it's almost like. Can the judge try to persuade the family to go? Look, is, Is that really the judge's role?
- [15:27]
Ashley Banfield
Yes, and it's not. The families, they. They don't hold the final vote. The families are input and they are listened to, but they are not the arbiters of what happens. No. And it will break their hearts if this happens against their will. But the judge may say to them, look, it's a devil's bargain, but you can get this trial on track now, and we can offer the defense no death penalty. We'll get this trial on track, and then the appellate issue won't be there.
- [15:53]
Brian Enten
But how is this such a big deal? I don't get it, Ashley. Like, again, I just go back to all the cases that we've covered where there are leaks and leaks to even us on other cases, and I guess to think that a leak, something as simple as a, you know, even though it was really intense information in photos, but like, to think that that could have an impact in that way is kind of just crazy to me.
- [16:18]
Ashley Banfield
You know what? Harvey Levin told me something really interesting about that. Not all cases are the same, and obviously they're not, right? But this guy and this case is so heinous, right? He's so hated before he's convicted. And I'm not saying he's going to be convicted, but before he even gets his moment in court, he is so despised by people across the country, people around the world, people in Idaho, right? They hate this man they wanted. They talk about the firing squad. They're. They're wearing T shirts. You know, Charles Manson was also disputed. Despised in California when he went to trial. And that was such a massive case, Right. My God, Sharon Tate. And it was. It was such a famous case. But when the jurors who were sequestered were walked from their hotel to the courtroom, they walked past a newspaper box, you know, the kind that used to get your newspaper out of pay your quarter, get. They walked past a newspaper box and it had a big headline about the Charles Manson case. And the judge was going to call a mistrial because of the.
- [17:23]
Brian Enten
It.
- [17:23]
Ashley Banfield
Because they saw it on the way past. And again, I think it's because every case has leaks and headlines here and there. But when these people are so despised, they're coming in at such a disadvantage, they have to be protected from everything. And this is one of those things where Dateline, I mean, my God, really, you know, porn with drugs and force or whatever these terms were, you know, like, these were pretty ugly things. The white Elantra circling the house on video. It's just all in the jurors minds now. So there's not, there's not a way to unsee those things and unring those bells. And they hate them already.
- [18:02]
Brian Enten
Again, I don't know. I mean, I've just gotten to know them, so my mind does just go back to. I know the, the, the victims families don't want there to be a delay. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, they just, they're, I mean, you know that too. They're ready to get this thing going.
- [18:17]
Ashley Banfield
They've had it.
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Brian Enten
Yeah. And I just can't imagine if they're really going to do an investigation and really get a special prosecutor. It's hard to imagine they could accomplish all of that before August 11th.
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Ashley Banfield
We should remind the listeners and viewers, guys, we usually think that victims are closer to the case that, you know, the prosecutors, the prosecutors are their lawyers. Right. And so somehow they're like, involved in the case and they get updates and. Nope. When there's a gag order, the victim's family members in this case know as little as you and I do. So they're being treated the same way that you and I do. So you just imagine for a minute how frustrated you are, and now just multiply it by, by millions to see how frustrated they are because the stakes for them are so much higher and it's, it's hard to sort of, you know, walk in their shoes. Brian.
- [19:10]
Brian Enten
Well, and that's one thing that we hear from them is it's just time that we know what happened. We want to know. You know, they want, it's not like another case because of the gag order where the evidence has come out and we've been able to do reports and stories and go through it all and explain it all, because none of us really know because it's been so hidden and they don't know either. So that's something I've heard a couple of times, like we're just ready to know what happened. You know, they don't know. I mean, imagine three years and not still not knowing.
- [19:40]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah, just. I'm going to run down the list real quickly to Remind everybody why today we're having this conversation. Dateline had the Ted Bundy search. The search for porn with drugs and sleeping and the words forced had lots of pictures of girls he was following lots of girls on Instagram from wsu, Washington State University and University of Idaho. The Dateline got the video of the white Elantra circling the house at the time of the murders. There are the pictures of the hoodie, the black hoodie after the fact. Then the really awful stuff about the. I'm not sure I believe. Believe this. I. I don't know. I'm. I'm reserving judgment on this, that they said that they knew that Zanna and Ethan's room was attacked and that somebody's artery was hit. Maybe there was a spray on the wall, but that and that Ethan's legs were cut up like that was just such a bizarre and awful detail. And I don't know, I'm just not so sure if he was. If whomever it was in that room, killing two people and then killing two others prior to that, I just can't imagine that they weren't doing it very, very quickly and getting out.
- [20:53]
Brian Enten
Yeah, I mean, you would think. I. It's, you know, I told you last time, they've got this, this model made up at the house. It's just going to be interesting again, things we don't know to have them really map out exactly how they think this happened. You know, were there. Was he perhaps not planning to. Whoever did it kill that many people and there were more people there than he expected. I've heard that a lot. And you know, in the confusion. That's why he left the knife sheath. I mean, we just don't. We don't know.
- [21:23]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah, well, I know you're gonna find out first when we. We hear if there's gonna be a delay. So watch this space. I drop these bonus episodes all the time. I tell people to subscribe because Shazam. I. I called Brian like minutes before this and said, can you do a bonus episode with me? And you're such a sweetheart. Thank you for doing this. I'm always so appreciative when it's hard.
- [21:43]
Brian Enten
For us to plan anything with these, with your Episodes or, you know, any. I mean, it's just we're in that time right now or at any moment. Like these new documents drop and it changes everything. So.
- [21:53]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah, call me when you hear.
- [21:55]
Brian Enten
Okay.
- [21:57]
Ashley Banfield
Thanks, Brian. I know it's a late night. Thank you for staying up.
- [22:00]
Brian Enten
Thank you.
- [22:01]
Ashley Banfield
Bye. Hey, everyone. My great thanks to Brian Enten he really is such a great reporter and by the way, I know him personally. He's exactly the same on the air that he is off the air. He's nice, he's empathetic, he's smart, smart, he's inquisitive. He's everything you want in a reporter and he's just authentic, right? So I just trust him wholeheartedly. I've worked with him and he's one of the first people I turn to to hash out, you know, issues that arise in cases that we're covering. He's going to join me as well as these particular issues do get hashed out and like I said earlier, when he finds out what the remedy is going to be, he'll be back and I'm sure it's going to be one of those lightning fast bonus episodes. So again, make sure you subscribe. Tell all your friends. Thanks everybody for watching. Thanks everybody for listening. And again the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead seriously.