Uncle Peter | Episode 1: Meet the Monster

Summary

Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Episode: Uncle Peter | Episode 1: Meet the Monster
Release Date: January 23, 2025

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Introduction to Peter Nygaard

In the inaugural episode of Drop Dead Serious, host Ashleigh Banfield delves into the harrowing story of Peter Nygaard, a man whose public persona as an international playboy and business magnate starkly contrasts with his hidden life as a prolific sex criminal. Described vividly by Banfield, Nygaard is portrayed as "one part Liberace, one part Hugh Hefner, and one part Fabio," characterized by his flamboyant fur coats, open shirts, and long flowing blond hair. At the zenith of his success, Nygaard helmed a Canadian-based clothing empire valued at nearly a billion dollars, accompanied by multiple multimillion-dollar properties across Canada.

Notable Quote:
Peter Nygaard states, “It's important for me to make a contribution to everybody's life in this stage of my life.” ([00:25])

Ashleigh Banfield’s Personal Connection

Banfield reveals her personal connection to Nygaard, describing him as "Uncle Peter" and sharing that her childhood was intertwined with his influence. Her niece, Angela Dyborne, was one of Nygaard's employees for three decades, enduring various forms of abuse under his control. This intimate perspective sets the stage for a deeply personal exploration of Nygaard's manipulative and abusive behavior.

Notable Quote:
Banfield shares, “I've known Peter Nygaard since I was a kid. To me, he was Uncle Peter.” ([00:43])

Angela Dyborne’s Testimony

Angela Dyborne opens up about her experiences working for Nygaard, detailing the psychological, workplace, and financial abuse she and others endured. She recounts the early, seemingly glamorous interactions with Nygaard, such as receiving the Excalibur car for graduation, which in hindsight was a manipulation tactic.

Notable Quote:
Angela reflects, “Peter. [...] [He] made unbearable abuse, psychological abuse, workplace abuse and financial abuse.” ([04:29])

Nygaard’s Business Empire and Crimes

As Nygaard's business flourished, so did his criminal activities. Operating under the veneer of a successful clothing brand, he lured women with promises of modeling contracts and fame. His operations spanned Canada, the United States, and the Bahamas, where his luxury resort became the epicenter of his most heinous crimes. Nygaard's methods included drugging and sexually assaulting women at extravagant parties and within his executive offices, blurring the lines between business and sexual exploitation.

Notable Quotes:
Nygaard boasts, “Welcome, everybody. Are my special friends. [...] What is it that we can do for you that your fashions are going to whip all the competition?” ([09:02])
Angela adds, “It was just something that's just the normal thing that Peter does.” ([11:05])

Comparison with Other Notorious Criminals

Nygaard's alleged crimes have been compared to those of Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein, and Bill Cosby, with the distinction that his number of victims far exceeds those of his counterparts. The class action lawsuit against him encompasses 135 alleged victims, with accusations spanning decades.

Notable Quote:
Banfield remarks, “Nygaard's name was everywhere. And eventually, so were the women.” ([10:58])

Forensic Psychiatrist’s Perspective

Dr. Julian Goger provides insights into Nygaard's behavior, suggesting that his actions indicate deep-seated issues with power and control, possibly rooted in narcissistic traits. Goger emphasizes the importance of understanding the power dynamics at play, which went beyond mere sexual deviance to encompass a broader spectrum of manipulation and dominance.

Notable Quote:
Dr. Goger explains, “If the personality has strong narcissistic traits, then the behavior is about aggrandizement of the individual.” ([19:07])

Effects on Angela and Her Family

Angela Dyborne’s story is not only one of professional abuse but also of personal trauma. She recounts being raped three times as a teenager, the last assault resulting in pregnancy by a married man. Her experiences highlight the pervasive and normalized abuse within Nygaard’s inner circle, leading to long-term psychological scars and societal ostracization.

Notable Quote:
Angela shares, “All of Peter's fault.” ([51:23])

Nygaard’s Luxurious yet Oppressive Lifestyle

Nygaard's opulent properties, especially Nygaard Cay in the Bahamas, served as both a playground for elite guests and a prison for his victims. The mansion was equipped with extravagant amenities like discos, hidden coves, and lavish parties that masked the underlying abuse and coercion. Guests were often manipulated into staying against their will, with strict control exerted over their movements and actions.

Notable Quote:
Angela describes, “It was like a Disneyland architecture, but it was palace.” ([27:24])

Internal Culture of Abuse and Manipulation

The podcast sheds light on the internal culture within Nygaard's organizations, where abuse was rampant and normalized. Employees and family members were subjected to verbal assaults, financial exploitation, and manipulative tactics to ensure compliance and silence. The use of drugging and coercion was a common method to control and exploit women.

Notable Quote:
Angela recounts, “He owned you. If you're here, I own you.” ([32:25])

Legal Ramifications and Ongoing Trials

Nygaard is currently incarcerated in Canada, serving an 11-year sentence with additional trials pending in both Canada and the United States. The class action lawsuit spearheaded by attorney Greg Gutzler represents numerous victims seeking justice for the extensive abuse inflicted by Nygaard.

Notable Quote:
Nygaard’s plea, “I respect your wishes and will not pursue the matter any longer,” reflects his attempts at maintaining a façade even during legal confrontations. ([13:58])

Possible Origins of Nygaard’s Behavior

The podcast explores potential psychological underpinnings of Nygaard's deviant behavior, suggesting that early-life trauma, such as being molested as a boy, could have contributed to his manipulative and abusive tendencies. Dr. Goger discusses how such experiences might lead to a lifelong pattern of seeking dominance and control through sexual and financial means.

Notable Quote:
Dr. Goger notes, “If the act is perceived as a humiliating act, but was also sexually arousing, then the person might seek out sexual acts later on in life that are degrading to the individual, but also finds them arousing.” ([54:15])

Personal and Societal Impact

Angela Dyborne’s journey from victim to survivor underscores the pervasive impact of Nygaard's abuse, not only on individuals but also on their families and communities. The podcast highlights the societal challenges faced by victims in seeking justice and the stigmatization they endure, further complicating their path to healing.

Notable Quote:
Angela reflects, “I've had to really re-examine everything that I thought was something that's not normal.” ([51:23])

Conclusion and Future Episodes

Ashleigh Banfield concludes the episode by emphasizing the scale of Nygaard's atrocities and hinting at deeper revelations in future episodes. The next installment promises to uncover more about Nygaard's systematic abuse, his personal motivations, and the extensive network of complicity and victimization within his empire.

Notable Quote:
Banfield teases, “What could possibly turn a man into a monster like this? Turns out Nygaard had his own family secrets.” ([54:39])

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Key Takeaways

• Peter Nygaard was a prominent business tycoon whose public success masked a lifetime of abuse and exploitation.
• Angela Dyborne, Nygaard’s niece and long-time employee, provides an intimate account of the psychological, financial, and sexual abuse endured.
• Nygaard's methods echoed those of other notorious criminals but on a much grander and more sinister scale.
• Forensic psychiatry suggests Nygaard's behavior was driven by deep-seated issues with power, control, and possibly early trauma.
• The legal battles against Nygaard are ongoing, with numerous victims seeking justice through class action lawsuits.
• The podcast sets the stage for an in-depth exploration of Nygaard’s background, uncovering family secrets and the roots of his monstrous behavior.

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Notable Quotes Summary

• Peter Nygaard: “It's important for me to make a contribution to everybody's life in this stage of my life.” ([00:25])
• Ashleigh Banfield: “I've known Peter Nygaard since I was a kid. To me, he was Uncle Peter.” ([00:43])
• Angela Dyborne: “Peter. [...] [He] made unbearable abuse, psychological abuse, workplace abuse and financial abuse.” ([04:29])
• Dr. Julian Goger: “If the personality has strong narcissistic traits, then the behavior is about aggrandizement of the individual.” ([19:07])
• Angela Dyborne: “All of Peter's fault.” ([51:23])
• Angela Dyborne: “It was like a Disneyland architecture, but it was palace.” ([27:24])
• Angela Dyborne: “He owned you. If you're here, I own you.” ([32:25])
• Dr. Julian Goger: “If the act is perceived as a humiliating act, but was also sexually arousing, then the person might seek out sexual acts later on in life that are degrading to the individual, but also finds them arousing.” ([54:15])
• Ashleigh Banfield: “What could possibly turn a man into a monster like this? Turns out Nygaard had his own family secrets.” ([54:39])

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Final Thoughts

Ashleigh Banfield's first episode, Uncle Peter: Meet the Monster, provides a chilling glimpse into the life of one of Canada's most notorious criminals. Through personal testimonies and expert insights, the podcast lays a comprehensive foundation for understanding the depth and breadth of Peter Nygaard's atrocities. As the series progresses, listeners can expect an even more detailed unraveling of Nygaard's complex and dark legacy.

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Note: If you or someone you know has been a victim of sexual assault, please reach out to your local sexual assault hotline for support and assistance.

Transcript

[Host]

This episode may contain material which may be unsuitable for some listeners.

[Dr. Julian Goger]

Peter Nygaard.

[Host]

This is the story of Peter Nygaard, an abusive, tyrannical sex criminal who was once lauded as an international playboy and business tycoon.

[Peter Nygaard]

It's important for me to make a contribution to everybody's life in this stage of my life.

[Host]

He's described as one part Liberace, one part Hugh Hefner, and one part Fabio. With his flamboyant fur coats, his open shirts and his long flowing blond hair. He ran a Canadian based clothing enterprise worth close to a billion dollars. And at one point, he was one of the richest men in Canada with close to a half dozen multi million dollar properties.

[Peter Nygaard]

You are absolutely working for the finest company there is in this industry. Congratulations, Peter MacArthur.

[Host]

But today, at 83 years old, Peter Nygaard is behind bars. An inmate locked up in Canada, serving an 11 year sentence and awaiting several more trials there. And a criminal case in the United States. Then a class action civil suit with 135 alleged victims at last count. Nygaard was first arrested back in 2020 on multiple charges of violent sex assault and sex trafficking. Trafficking in Canada, in the United States and at his luxury resort in the Bahamas. But his extraordinary history of alleged crimes began long ago, as far back as the 1950s, and they went virtually unchallenged for more than half a century. Nygaard's victims are estimated to number in the thousands, with some accusers as young as four. The accusations against Nygaard have been compared to those against Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby. But Nygaard's numbers dwarf all of theirs combined. And you'll find out why. What made him into this monster? As the details of Nygaard's crimes unfold, Peter Nygaard's story has never been told from the inside like this. But you're about to hear details that no one's ever heard before. Because I grew up with him. I've known Peter Nygaard since I was a kid. My mom's known him half of her life. To me, he was Uncle Peter. His niece Angela was one of my childhood best friends. In her teens, Angela became a Nygaard employee and worked for Peter on and off for 30 years. Why on and off? Angela was subjected to decades of his unbearable abuse, psychological abuse, workplace abuse and financial abuse. Not unlike hundreds of his employees worldwide, Angela is speaking publicly for the first time about what life with Uncle Peter was like. The sex cult in which she grew up, the volatility and explosive anger, and the sick lessons that he made normal in their family. Simply put, Angela is opening the floodgates and shining a light on how Peter Nygaard became the monster that he is today and what he did to so many people along the way. Together, we're telling Angela's story, the story of Uncle Peter.

[Angela Dyborne]

Peter.

[Peter Nygaard]

We do the real people. That's our marketplace. You will not find another product as competitively priced as ours.

[Host]

You're listening to Uncle Peter, a drop dead serious podcast.

[Angela Dyborne]

Hey.

[Host]

Thank you for doing this. Thank you. I know this isn't comfy. You know, this isn't like. This isn't like our normal girl. Girl talk. I'm a little nervous. I know it isn't easy. So we'll just kind of go through our lives. I the test for me.

[Angela Dyborne]

My name is Angela Dyborne and Peter Nygaard is my uncle.

[Host]

You're my lifelong friend.

[Angela Dyborne]

40 years, isn't it about 40 years? I think that we've. More.

[Host]

More.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah.

[Susie Lound]

45.

[Peter Nygaard]

Yeah.

[Host]

I think we met at 15 or something. Yeah, it's been a long time. So it's weird, it's an odd conversation, but I have to be a journalist and I really do want to tell your story and I think you're ready now to be able to talk freely, having kind of been harnessed.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, no, I think the last five years, four or five years now, have really been. I've been in a place where I need to tell my story and I agree with that. And if anyone I can wanna tell it to is you.

[Host]

So let's just go back to the very beginning. What's your earliest memory of Peter?

[Angela Dyborne]

Oh, my gosh. Earliest memory, quite young. Falcon Lake, the cottage where he had his summer cottage. Going to visit with my parents. This incredible man at the time, the hero of our family. Showing up at family events. I thought he was a movie star looks and just this really amazing person, large than life character, being the hero of our family. That was before he started traveling a lot. When the business. When his business, the clothing business started building and growing, then he was away a bit more. But for the most part, in the summertime he was always in Canada and around Manitoba. But then by the time we were about eight, we started going to the Bahamas for Christmas and to go with. Because my grandparents would go to the Bahamas for Christmas. This is family started to grow and grow and grow. We'd start to have our cousins, like our different cousins would be there. So then we'd spend longer blocks of time with him.

[Host]

I do remember another big part of the Peter, the Uncle Peter in my life was our Graduation. This is the nice side of Peter. This is the side that some people really celebrated and saw and, you know, trumpeted. He gave you and me his Excalibur for graduation night so that we could show up in an Excalibur. I just remember that being, like, massive.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah. Oh, no, it was. And that was a big thing for him to do, really, for us, for a family member, for somebody else, if it was a girlfriend or somebody else to hear, take the car, go. To pull apart.

[Host]

Oh, really?

[Angela Dyborne]

But for us to get. I mean, there was very rare.

[Host]

So gross.

[Angela Dyborne]

Wait a minute.

[Host]

I thought, like, he would be so thrilled to have a family member with a graduation. But you're saying the women in his life, the girls in his life, whatever he called them back then, they could have the car anytime. You, on the other hand, only once in your life.

[Angela Dyborne]

It was a special. Yes, it was a wonderful moment.

[Host]

We did not get the car.

[Angela Dyborne]

We did not get the car.

[Host]

We got it for the evening. Talk to me about how other people regarded him. In those early days, he was a hero.

[Angela Dyborne]

There was articles about him every other day. There was, you know, there'd be newspaper pieces, there'd be things on television. There would be people. 1. Oh, you're Peter Nygaard's niece. What about this? What about that? Everybody. He was worshiped. People, especially in Winnipeg, because he came from Winnipeg, was the epicenter of all of this.

[Host]

I still recall back in the 90s, we both would roll our eyes like, no, we never justified Peter's morality and his choices. We just thought he was gross, but nothing more.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, it was embarrassing, right?

[Host]

It was embarrassing. Yeah. His behavior was embarrassing.

[Angela Dyborne]

Everything, like, the things he'd say were embarrassing. I was proud. I was so proud of the company, because I think you have separate.

[Host]

There was a lot to be proud of. Yeah.

[Angela Dyborne]

Separating that entity of Nygaard and the company that he built and Peter, the person, Peter Nygaard.

[Peter Nygaard]

Welcome, everybody. Are my special friends. And of course, more important than anything, the customer. He is a designer of international fame.

[Host]

He is our number one designer at Dillard's today.

[Peter Nygaard]

Mr. Peter Nygaard. What a welcome. Can you imagine a police escort? Go out there and buy a lot of Nygardt products, Make this store number one store.

[Host]

As Nygaard's business empire grew, so did his crimes in plain sight. Under the guise of his clothing brand that sold in department stores like Dillard's and Sears, Nygaard lured in women by promising them modeling contracts and telling them he'd make them famous. And women believed him. He was powerful with an international playboy image. He could offer them a future. So why wouldn't they jump at the chance? Maggard's name was everywhere. And eventually, so were the women. He had women and models on each arm everywhere he went, even when visiting construction sites. And then came the wild parties. They were notorious. But as many women quickly learned, they were also a ruse. Dozens and dozens would say they were raped at those parties, either by force or while unconscious after being drugged. His executive offices, they weren't safe either. Women were often brought in alone for interviews or tours. But each of his offices conveniently featured a bedroom suite right there in the middle, and that's where many would be sexually assaulted. To those on the outside, Nygaard's victims were displayed as no different than his girlfriends or his dates or aspiring models who even threw themselves at him willingly. They were always referred to as girls.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, and I feel bad when I use that term because it is like, because they were women.

[Host]

But we're different now. Yeah, we're a whole different generation now.

[Angela Dyborne]

And just the constant flow of women through the day. For as long as I can remember, when I started getting involved in the business side, it was something that was just a normal. It was just something that's just the normal thing that Peter does.

[Host]

Did you guys think it was like the Playboy Mansion? Because I get an image in my head of Hugh Hefner having his business, where he lived in the mansion, having his girls slash women as a constant revolving door. Sometimes it's a party, sometimes it's just living. He really modeled himself after Hugh Hefner. Idolized him.

[Angela Dyborne]

Idolized Hugh Hefner. And then he built his world around the rules and stuff that Hugh Hefner. You'd have your alpha girlfriend, you'd have your alpha female, you'd have women who'd sleep in different bedrooms depending on their status in their life. You'd have category. You would. You'd have categories. I mean, he'd date gorgeous, blonde. I mean, he had a type, especially early on. Tall, blond, long haired, thin.

[Host]

Like they were from Finland.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, like they were Scandinavian. But the women that actually kind of hung around a bit more there always seemed to be like another dynamic. They were a bit broken or there's. They're a bit needy. And he did start to prey on very poor, very needy women who. His Persona and his life and what.

[Host]

He had was like a savior.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, yeah. You'd have categories of women. Did it happen all the time? No. Did it happen often? Yes. He sort of had his A list. The best women his most beautiful women. Hefner had that he would. You know, women almost had to audition to be in his. You know, in his, like, coterie. Yeah. In his. In his world.

[Host]

But he actually ended up, like, becoming part of Hugh Hefner's inner circle. Like, he. He connected with him, and he was.

[Angela Dyborne]

Part of that whole deal in the 70s. Peter was very much. I think he was, like, right in that inner circle. There was many. There was a bunch of men.

[Host]

But eventually, Peter Nygaard's behavior became too much for even Hugh Hefner.

[Angela Dyborne]

There was something that happened between them where Peter half broke up with Peter.

[Host]

Half broke up with Peter in a letter.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, half broke up with Peter in a letter.

[Host]

Effectively saying what?

[Angela Dyborne]

Saying that, basically, Peter's lifestyle was just too much for Hef.

[Host]

Even Hugh Hefner's brand couldn't stand what Peter Nygaard was gonna do to it if he associated with it.

[Angela Dyborne]

Correct.

[Host]

For Hef to kick you out of his inner circle saying, your lore is too much, it's too much of a risk. For me, it had to be pretty big.

[Angela Dyborne]

Oh, yeah. I kind of came across the breakup letter cleaning out old papers one day, and I was just. I think my jaw dropped.

[Host]

And then the letter back from Peter. It almost sounded like he was begging, well, if one day we can get back together. I'm actually holding Hugh Hefner's letter in my hands. It's Hef's breakup letter to Peter. It's dated October 31, 1980. He writes, as I've tried to indicate to you, the problem isn't any one particular incident or event as much as an attitude and lifestyle and the reputation that goes with it that represents potential problems for me. And this is the letter that Peter Nygaard wrote back to Hugh Hefner. It's dated a little over a month later. And Peter writes this. I have found it somewhat difficult to accept your decision, especially since I could not trace any obvious reason for it. However, I do respect your wishes and will not pursue the matter any longer. I welcome our continued, though somewhat distant, friendship. And then Peter goes on to say that he looks forward to the day when, quote, you are in a position to pursue the close and special friendship that was in the making. And Nygaard closes his letter by offering to outfit Hugh Hefner's Playboy Bunnies. Now, there's no doubt that Peter Nygaard had similarities to Hugh Hefner as a womanizer and as an international playboy. But Nygaard quickly crossed the to sex criminal and sex trafficker, and his abuse wasn't just sexual. It was financial. Ruthlessly financial. And verbal. Blisteringly verbal.

[Gianna]

It is met with a staff who understands it. With the communication that has occurred, you got that responsibility.

[Host]

Here is a torrent of scathing insults unleashed on Angela and her husband. And this treatment was the norm for so many employees for decades.

[Gianna]

Operating should not be able to find it. There's no way that that should be readily available. So you also have that responsibility of pitching the next person who's in their training. What the. Was the picture all about me? Jesus Christ, you guys are ignorant. Whose fault are you now trying to make this to be?

[Angela Dyborne]

Gianna saying she. Gianna's saying that she registered her heads that the name she gave was Kaya Brown when she came that time.

[Gianna]

I say that three times now.

[Angela Dyborne]

So we invited Mokaya thinking it was a different person.

[Gianna]

Well, I guess you're thinking this wrong. Yes. You are always wrong. Yes. If we establish one F system and one disclosure is you guys are always wrong. This is just a perfect example of you're being always wrong. You've never yet been right, and now you make it seem like push for this. You know, what do you. You want me to come and clean up your f. Cking mess? Holy Christ, Angela, it is fucking chaotic the way you as motive run that place.

[Angela Dyborne]

So again, she gave Gianna the name Kia Brown.

[Host]

We'll dig deeper into other abuses of Angela, other family members, and his employees a little later on. But first, to get an idea of the kind of depravity in Peter Nygaard's world, I asked forensic psychiatrist Dr. Julian Goger for his thoughts. And while Dr. Goger has never met Peter Nygaard nor analyzed him, we talked about what Peter's behaviors might indicate.

[Gianna]

That is how every business works, Angela. That is how my business is supposed to be working, Angela.

[Host]

The stories of Peter Nygaard's abuse extended beyond sexual. They were financial. They were psychological. I mean, the abuses that he leveled on people were almost unmeasurable. What are your thoughts professionally about someone who seems to cross all of these different silos of abuse?

[Dr. Julian Goger]

Well, I'm not talking about Mr. Nygat. I'm talking about individuals who have that power and control. And the power and control may extend not just to sex, but to other walks of life. So it's an issue of a power issue, as opposed to purely sex.

[Host]

Can you dig a little deeper into that? And how. How the power dynamic is so important when assessing how these crimes are committed.

[Dr. Julian Goger]

In order to assess these kind of crimes, not only do we have to look at whether the person has a sexual deviation, and does the deviation extend to individuals who have an attraction, say, to younger females, younger males, or a particular genre of sexual activity? But then also one would like to assess the person's personality. And if the personality has strong narcissistic traits, then the behavior is about aggrandizement of the individual. And that's where the power and control becomes a bigger issue and sex becomes yet one aspect of the narcissism that the person has.

[Host]

With Peter Nygaard, it seemed as though sex was critical to his survival. Even, you know, as long as 40 years ago. The notion that he just always had to have women around him and girlfriends and many girlfriends, and was an avowed bachelor, would never marry, he had children with multiple women. What kind of person is like that? I mean, what kind of. Who are they? That that's their choice in life?

[Dr. Julian Goger]

One aspect that one would want to look for are features of narcissism. And we also look at individuals who are psychopathic, who might want to control other individuals who have defects in sense of morality. But unless one does an assessment, one doesn't know whether that individual has that trait, what we call a psychopathic trait. But narcissism is often a central feature of even the psychopath. So whether Mr. Nygaard or any other individual like Mr. Nygaard has these sort of behaviors, those are things that a forensic psychiatrist would like to look for.

[Host]

Over the years and maybe, I dare say thousands.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, I think that's a fair number.

[Host]

That he has molested, sexually assaulted, or raped thousands of women. Yeah, it wouldn't be unreasonable, especially with.

[Angela Dyborne]

The amount of women that he's been with in his life.

[Host]

Do you think people just kind of were living in his orbit in constant fear of him, Whatever it was going to be, whether it was going to be a berating, a physical assault, a rape, a firing, a financial control mechanism, like, did people just live in fear?

[Angela Dyborne]

I think most people did. I think when you first. First met him, you'd think that you were the new shining star, because he'd make you feel like there's nothing you can do wrong.

[Host]

Boy, he had charm.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah. And that's that charm and the charisma.

[Host]

I saw his charm. I never saw the other. My mom, she saw his charm. He was so good to some people on the outside, but I see it now. It was like propaganda. International fashion mogul for one of the largest women's retailers in North America, Nygaard International. When you hear the name Peter Nygaard.

[Susie Lound]

What is it you think I Think of an old friend from a long time ago. I've known Peter for many, many years.

[Host]

I asked my mom, Susie Lound, to sit down and talk with me for this podcast because my mom knew Peter well back in the day. She was friends with Peter's sister Lisa. They were both professional working women back in the 70s when that was rare. I asked my mom about Nygaard's charm back then. Oh, no.

[Susie Lound]

I think that any girl would, anybody would have said was a very handsome, debonair, handsome, good looking guy. And he also had a charm. He did. He had a charm. He could charm all those women into a disaster, a den of iniquity.

[Host]

He had Hollywood looks for sure. He did. And you know, sometimes money is the only charm you need. Peter Nygard, here at your Springfield Dome.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, he's really approachable, he's really nice.

[Host]

He's very personable.

[Angela Dyborne]

He's a sweetie. He's as nice as he can be. I just love all of his style.

[Host]

What a handsome man. But beneath all that charm, a predator was lurking. A predator with a massive ego and a businessman laser focused on making millions of and making headlines.

[Peter Nygaard]

Peter Nygaard. We're so happy to talk to the customers, ask you even some more now, what is it that we can do for you that your fashions are going to whip all the competition?

[Host]

In the 1970s and 80s, he saw a market for women entering the workforce, like my mom and Lisa. They all needed clothes for the office and he started making them. I remember you describing your needs for a wardrobe when you went to work in late 60s, early 70s, and how Peter recognized that and capitalized well, I.

[Susie Lound]

Think he very quickly recognized that women were starting to get involved in the working world and women needed to have the proper clothes. And a lot of women had no idea how to dress. They were used to wearing a house dress, some of them, and just sort of wearing very, very casual, relaxed stuff. And he realized that if they were going to go to the office, they needed to be appropriately dressed. And Peter was very smart that way because he did create a wardrobe that was acceptable in the office world. And cheap. Cheap and tasty and washable and easy to look after and easy to look after to maintain.

[Host]

Nygaard's brand began in Canada and took off worldwide. The company's Canadian headquarters was first in Winnipeg and then moved to Toronto.

[Peter Nygaard]

You see all the signs. It says happy New Year to the world from Nygaard over right over there. See, look, look.

[Angela Dyborne]

I see there.

[Peter Nygaard]

See it up there.

[Host]

But his world headquarters, where everything came crashing down. In 2020 was true to form in the epicenter of bright lights and flash. Times Square in New York City. There were also offices near Los Angeles in Marino del Rey. They called that one the Marina. And in all of his offices, Peter had a bedroom suite. His bedroom suite right there out in the open. The line was always blurred between his work and his play. Everywhere Peter went, he had ample opportunity to harm people. He raped and sexually assaulted women in Canada and in the us. But the scene of his most horrific crimes was the shadiest sunny place on earth. Nyegard Cay. It's located at the very tip of Lyford Cay, one of the richest parts of the Bahamas.

[Peter Nygaard]

This is the only place that I really designed for me. All my designing has been for the business is I had a concert right from day one where we would bring family together. You know, parents, my children, you know, loved ones. And it does that job well.

[Host]

This is Peter's mother, Hillke Nygard. She's beaming with pride as she describes her son's home as a paradise.

[Angela Dyborne]

Just love it like a paradise. It has good imagination.

[Host]

So describe Nygard Cay.

[Angela Dyborne]

It was Robinson Crusoe, I think they said, meets Swiss Family Robinson. It was like a Disneyland architecture, but it was palace.

[Host]

I mean it was massive.

[Angela Dyborne]

It was massive.

[Peter Nygaard]

We have 100,000 pounds of glass perched on top of these beautiful huge two foot diameter beams. I engineered this myself. It's got through three hurricanes. All of it is 360 degree view. You know that I do not put anything in the way of what is the most beautiful scene of all. The ocean.

[Angela Dyborne]

I think the whole property was four acres. I think the house I'd heard was about 250, 300,000 square feet.

[Host]

I never got to see it inside. I've seen the pictures. I did get invited a bunch of times. I mean, he always said, come on over, take a look. You know, if you're there, they'll let you in. I'm not there, but go. He's always really nice, but I never.

[Angela Dyborne]

Had to show it off.

[Peter Nygaard]

We really enjoy ourselves together here. Kai and I are the best of friends that come. I look so forward to coming here and I hate so much leaving here. So I never want to leave.

[Host]

Here's Peter and his son Kai Bickel Nygaard describing how they work all the time at Nygaard Cay.

[Peter Nygaard]

We're very active here. We play volleyball maybe four hours a day every day. What don't we do? Everything's here. We do a lot of work here too.

[Angela Dyborne]

We Do?

[Host]

Yeah, Almost every kind of job you can think of out here.

[Peter Nygaard]

This whole place has been built pretty much by us and our team.

[Host]

And there's a giant dining room table.

[Angela Dyborne]

That seats like 50 at least.

[Host]

50 people.

[Angela Dyborne]

50 at least. Yeah. There was a floor that raised into a dance floor and it made a second. A second table.

[Host]

But was there like Hugh Hefnery grotto kind of hot tubby places all the way through it.

[Angela Dyborne]

So there was a disco. There was a disco with like stripper poles and fans that blew up. But when you're dancing over top of the fans, they blew your skirts up like Marilyn Monroe style. There was kind of like a movie theater area. The pools you could dive down naked and you could see like the mermaid. The naked mermaids would come down and from the disco you'd see them. And then lots of little secret places. The place was designed. When you said grottoes, it was designed to have little secret coves where you could sort of sneak away, little spas and hot tubs and those place designed primarily for sex. It was more of a spectacle. I think people came to see it. I mean, there's a lot of pictures of celebrities there.

[Host]

The A list names who were pictured at Nygard key were epic. George and Barbara Bush, Bill Clinton, Robert De Niro, Michael Jackson, Robin Leach, Prince Andrew and Sarah Ferguson, Oprah Winfrey, Mel Gibson, Jessica Alba and Anna Nicole Smith. Some of them were guests who actually stayed there, but most of them, like George Bush, they just came to take a peek, like a tour, because they were vacationing nearby. And in one of the better examples of Peter Nygaard's propaganda moves, he called an extravagant bedroom at his resort home the George Bush presidential bedroom, even though George and Barbara never stayed there. And when President Bush gave Nygaard his blue bomber jacket, the one with the presidential seal, Nygaard wore it nonstop and then had six more copies of it made so he'd never be without.

[Angela Dyborne]

Was in the Bahamas, came to see it, had heard about it, came to see it.

[Host]

So fewer famous guests, more famous looky loos.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, yeah. And he also used it as a rental property. People, you know, some. It was, I think rented out at 45, 50 grand a night. So higher end, people would.

[Host]

Yeah, like Richard Branson's island. You can rent his place out too. That gate, I always hear of it like, you know, Jurassic Park. I've seen it from the outside. I never saw it go up and down, but, like, it's a Jurassic park like gate, right? Yeah. And it's been described as like the Prison gate. Like you. If you were in, you were getting out. You weren't getting out. And unless Peter okayed it personally.

[Angela Dyborne]

Correct.

[Host]

Which is so screwed up, you know.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah.

[Host]

When did it become like a prison.

[Angela Dyborne]

And why it became like a prison? Because people would want to leave and go and explore the island and Peter would all of a sudden wonder where his guests were. And they were all off the property.

[Host]

He's ready to go to bed with them. They're not.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, he's ready to have some fun. He brought them down there. He paid for them to come down there. How dare they leave.

[Host]

I brought you. I own you.

[Angela Dyborne]

I brought you to the most amazing resort on the planet. Why would you want to leave? I own you. If you're here, if I paid for it, you.

[Host]

You're here for me.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yep.

[Host]

You're not here for Bahamas. You're not here to go sightsee. You're here for me.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, we'll bring whatever to you. You're staying.

[Host]

And then some say he just full on imprisoned people, like took their passports, wouldn't let them leave, and that if they asked, the guy at the gate would say, you have to get Mr. Nygaard's permission. For the.

[Angela Dyborne]

Even when I was working there, if I needed to leave, I came onto the property. If it was an event, it came on in a car. If I wanted to go back out to the grocery store, the gatehouse, even though they were technically working under me, the gatehouse staff, they would still have to call up to Peter, say, can Angela go to the grocery store to go pick up some watermelon or whatever? And then he would say, then that would become a two hour lecture on why you didn't pre plan for all the groceries you needed right there at the gate, waiting. Yeah. Hi, welcome to Niagara Key. We have anything you could possibly imagine. Trampoline out on the water. Tennis courts, basketball court, beach volleyball.

[Host]

Pool, volleyball.

[Angela Dyborne]

Every Sunday we have a pamper party with manicures and pedicures and massages for our guests.

[Peter Nygaard]

When people are looking for the very best there is in the world, you know, very unique space in the world. This is what come to Niagara teeth.

[Host]

Describe for me the pamper parties. I mean, first of all, the term is so icky. I guess it didn't seem icky when they started. But what were they?

[Angela Dyborne]

It was modeled after the Hugh Hefner Sunday parties. Watch movies, sports, pool, make out in the grotto. Yeah, make out in the grotto. But have, you know, like just have a Sunday relaxation type of a day. Peter started His Peter started small. Peter's pamper days in the beginning, started off just with the same kind of concept.

[Peter Nygaard]

The pamper party. Pamper party started originally when I would despoil my own staff and want to give them a massage and a veggie every Sunday. But as we started inviting some other friends, it grew and grew and grew and it became. 20 years ago, it already started to become a normal, most famous party of them all here in Los Angeles.

[Angela Dyborne]

Six, eight girls, two or three that were living at the house, brought over a couple friends and it was a very small, kind of a way to chill down for the day.

[Host]

He would provide manicures, pedicures, massages, food, and like volleyball.

[Angela Dyborne]

Less like volleyball.

[Host]

Beach games.

[Angela Dyborne]

Beach games, yeah, just it was. And then in the evening, karaoke and poker and stuff.

[Peter Nygaard]

This is our nightly game of Texas hold'em. We play this every single night. And all these girls here, including Bihara, how to kick their ass. Those two guys over there. It's a great sport, mental sport. We love it. You don't have to bend if you don't want. You can just check. She had to. But he had to hire kicker, right? You got that goddamn ace diamond.

[Angela Dyborne]

And then.

[Host]

And in the late evening.

[Angela Dyborne]

In the late evening. Stairs or whatever. No. Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, it was literally orgies at night. He also had massive swinger parties at Nygaard Cay, inviting dozens and dozens of people for days of naked debauchery. And the pictures show that it was mostly women wearing nothing but body paint and feathers or wearing nothing at all.

[Angela Dyborne]

There's like thousands and thousands of photographs that people would come to some of the more completely nis risky parties in the Bahamas and stuff. And you'd leave with a little picture photo book of, you know, eating dessert off a human dessert buffet.

[Peter Nygaard]

So everybody has a little book ready for a few of the photographs here that we've taken. They worked very hard this morning. Darlene worked very hard this morning putting a few booklets together so you can go away with them. You already got some of. You got them. Yeah. Just to see, so you can remember the place and. And treasure it with you. So again, thanks everybody for coming. Thank you, Peter. The best sexual performance goes to the woman who claims to have had at least 99% of those attendees here. So, Sonia, come up here and grab the trophy for best sexual performance.

[Host]

There are three women in one photograph, all naked, covered in dessert, and all these other naked women eating dessert off of them.

[Angela Dyborne]

I mean, this is where I think a lot of the people in company Were starting to get and have always been upset because that wouldn't just be his private business. He was so proud of it and had no boundaries on what was that personal business relationship that he'd send a camera crew from his Canadian offices into the Bahamas to record those parties and photograph those parties as if there was nothing wrong.

[Host]

He didn't think there was. Was anything wrong with it.

[Angela Dyborne]

Didn't think there was anything wrong.

[Peter Nygaard]

Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Peter Nard and I'm your host today.

[Angela Dyborne]

We kind of had two types of staff members. We had people that more the executive assistant working on the business side and there was more like a social assistant.

[Peter Nygaard]

I went through, look, I went through three entrances so I do not. No, I did not hear that. Not up the hill.

[Angela Dyborne]

Peter was putting so much pressure on getting people and good looking people to his parties that it just became, it was, it was highly inappropriate.

[Host]

There's all this like reporting that as women are coming into these parties, pamper parties or otherwise, you guys had to take down name measurements.

[Angela Dyborne]

The measurement part wasn't on the sheets that were used. It was a registration list just like the Playboy Mansion or these other parties where you still know who your guests are. So it was definitely like a photo, name, contact information. It looked normal, by the way. It was just like a regular Sunday. It wasn't. No one was sitting there going, oh wait, what are we engaging in? We shouldn't be doing this. It was just a normal Sunday when he was in town for 20, 30 years.

[Host]

But it wasn't normal. The parties would continue late into the night. Well after most of the staff went home. And behind those closed bedroom doors it got dangerous and illegal quickly. Peter believed he could do whatever he wanted to whomever he wanted. And if the women he preyed upon didn't consent, he would go to any means necessary to make them comply.

[Angela Dyborne]

That was kind of what went down when he was either in Bahamas or la.

[Host]

He wants these girls, get them to stay. If they won't stay, if they don't. If you can't coerce them to stay, convince them however you want to, then drop some drugs in.

[Angela Dyborne]

I think LA was a bit different. I think there was a bit of a different.

[Host]

Different mentality.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, different mentality, different group of people.

[Host]

It wasn't spinning through a lot of workers in the Bahamas too. Kind of like you're in, you're out. And so if you didn't comply with this is the protocol, look the other way. If some girl comes down from my room and is woozy or crying or pay her off or whatever. Like, it seems like it was a system he could manage in Bahamas.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, it was just such a different, just such a different setup.

[Host]

Sex abusers basically pyramid their abuse and they abuse their victims and then turn their victims into traffickers.

[Angela Dyborne]

And that was exactly what he was doing. And yeah, he was making his girlfriends find friends.

[Host]

You know, he's alleged to have been going through the poorest neighborhoods in the Bahamas, which is a lot of the island, and getting some of the most desperately poor, young and naive victims who would jump at the chance to go to the richest part of the island. And then once they were there, they had absolutely no idea what was coming until he was on them.

[Angela Dyborne]

And you think about Bahamas, people had to actually get out. This property was far from the poor neighborhoods. You were, you know, 30, 40 minute car ride. People don't have cars.

[Host]

As we talked and recorded this conversation, Angela shared dozens of images and videos and audio recordings with me. Most of the pictures she shared have never been seen before. And some of them can't be seen publicly without being heavily blurred. And then there was the collection of Peter Nygaard with Anna Nicole Smith. Smith was a one time playboy bunny and model and actress who lived a hard life and died at the age of 39. I remember Peter telling me that he'd befriended her and that they were close. What was his relationship with Anna Nicole Smith?

[Angela Dyborne]

He had an on again, off again relationship with her for a period of years, block of time. I think he would have liked her to been more of a consistent girlfriend. Girlfriend. She ticked a lot of the boxes. Famous blonde, playboy connection, needy in terms of. She was an addict, you know, she had problems. So she needed Peter for that. He could be her hero or her savior.

[Host]

He could get headlines with her.

[Angela Dyborne]

He'd get headlines. She came down to the Bahamas, she did some modeling for him, attended some of his parties as his date, went down to the Bahamas a couple times.

[Host]

Do you think they were sleeping together?

[Angela Dyborne]

I think so. I think that, I think, yeah. I think if he's flying somebody down there and bringing them back again and still involved with them after they've been down there.

[Host]

Meaning if he flies you down and you don't have sex with him, he ain't flying you back.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, and you're flying yourself back and you're flying yourself home even.

[Host]

But did he do that?

[Angela Dyborne]

Oh, he would, yeah. There'd be girls that he'd fly down there and they'd figure. He'd figure out that. They'd figure out that I don't want to be here. I'm not this guy. And he would make them find their own flights home. That was part of the.

[Host]

That was standard.

[Angela Dyborne]

That was pretty standard.

[Host]

What a gentleman.

[Angela Dyborne]

I know, right?

[Host]

At some of these parties, there were women who arrived who were turned away. Right. Because they weren't pretty enough. Like, they might come with a friend who was let in, but they would be turned.

[Angela Dyborne]

What was that like for him to see somebody that was too heavy?

[Host]

He would say something to them.

[Angela Dyborne]

He would embarrass them. He would call them names like pigs, like fat pigs. But he would be that, they're ruining my party. That person's ruining my party by being here just because of their size.

[Host]

It's not illegal, but it's disgusting when it happens.

[Angela Dyborne]

And it was embarrassing. And I'm still so, you know, it's one of the things that were the worst parts of the jobs. Like one of the main. One of the worst parts. And then if. But if he got eye contact with them or if he was the one to then start to pitch a fit about somebody being there and start name calling, then it got really humiliating.

[Host]

There's a long list of people who enabled Peter's behavior over the years, like employees, like from bodyguards, accountants, assistants, other women, even girlfriends, you know, who ended up not only allowing this behavior, but bringing in other women, too. Are they criminals or are they victims?

[Angela Dyborne]

They're victims. I mean, I think they're victims because I think the enabling. It's not illegal to bring people into a party. It's not illegal to have multiple girlfriends. It's not illegal to be a playboy. It's not illegal to be a yes man and let somebody believe they're king of the universe.

[Gianna]

Is that Peter Neitgard?

[Peter Nygaard]

Bring up Peter Neigard.

[Gianna]

Just stepping in the building.

[Peter Nygaard]

Look at these parties, man. I do fussy with the guys.

[Gianna]

Just look at the girls.

[Host]

But having multiple girlfriends is not where Peter Nygaard stopped. There were women that weren't his girlfriends, women he drugged, raped, and held prisoner, either on one of his properties or in his executive offices. What do you make of the whole notion that he became very familiar with just a drugging pattern?

[Angela Dyborne]

I do believe something was happening.

[Host]

The reporting of the number of people who say they were drugged and that it was kind of a regular pattern, at least in the Bahamas. Does it track with the guy that we are now learning so much more about, that this was the way he basically adopted a standard operating procedure?

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, to an extent. To this day, yeah. For what we know about him now came onto our radar pretty late, but.

[Host]

It doesn't sound like it's unreasonable to believe that he finally kind of came up with a system that just worked unchecked and it was kind, kind of a foolproof way of getting what he needed.

[Peter Nygaard]

Yep.

[Angela Dyborne]

If you would. Yeah. And if you would have asked me this four years ago, I would have said absolutely not. Makes no sense. But now, you know, it's. In hindsight, it's looking horribly true.

[Host]

Yeah. The critics will say that you were his right hand man, that you were in the company for, you know, decades. How could you not have known? And that you would have had absolute knowledge or even been the person writing checks to pay off rape accusers and silence them.

[Angela Dyborne]

In terms of checks, I have written checks. I had access to petty cash accounts and smaller incidentals out of the marina. But any of those bigger checks would have had come from Canada or from a higher level legal department, but not anything that I would have had control over.

[Host]

And you didn't have access to, say, Bahamas and Canada, Winnipeg and Toronto operations?

[Angela Dyborne]

No, we operated. It was like a silo almost. It was like each. We wouldn't even hear what was happening. If there was an issue in either of these other places.

[Host]

What do you think about the accusation that you should have known?

[Angela Dyborne]

I think that that's been a very, like an unfair one because yes, I did know a lot, but everybody should have known then. If I should have known, every single person in the company should have known. Every executive should have known, every person that sat in a budget meeting that saw the line items and the, in his personal column of the different girls that he was paying a part of the payroll should have known, going back.

[Host]

To the 90s, he was paying girls to be the dog walker, the mail collector, the fridge cleaner. You know what I mean?

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah.

[Host]

Did. Did Peter ever ask you to pay someone off and silence them?

[Angela Dyborne]

I've never been asked to pay somebody off to silence them. I have. You know, I've made different. We've helped people out. I've helped people with medical bills, but it wasn't in exchange for being quiet. This is going to happen, but it's been. This person is medically ill and needs to get a doctor, find a doctor, pay her bills. This mother needs her. This mother of one of his kids needs her electrical bills. They've been shut off. You need to pay that. This person's.

[Host]

So you were regularly tasked with making payments, payments and caring for people, but you were never asked to, to send a check to this girl and when she gets it, tell her don't say a word.

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, no, with a contract, because those don't say words would normally come with a contract that would not say a word, but. No. But was it that so and so's mother needs whatever and one of his girlfriends? That happened all the time.

[Host]

In telling the Nygaard story from Angela's perspective, it's important to understand that Angela herself was a victim. Not everyone will believe that, but it's important to know how Nygaard abused his employees and his family, and Angela was both. We'll get deeper into the kinds of abuse that she suffered under Nygaard all through her life as the story of Uncle Peter unravels. But outside of Nygaard's abuse, she was publicly vilified in the press for his behavior, for being in Nygaard's inner circle. She was even called an accomplice. She was sued by a victim and ostracized in her own community. So were her daughters. And you'll hear much more about all of that, plus the inner workings of Nygaard's family and the sex cult they lived in from a very young age. Uncle Peter's morals, or lack thereof, that was always normalized, never questioned. It was Peter's way. Or else everyone else was wrong or out for a payday.

[Gianna]

Yes, you are always wrong. Yes, if we establish one system as one disclosure, you guys are always wrong.

[Host]

Angela was taught that women were to look and behave a certain way, physically and sexually. And she herself was raped three times as a teenager. In the third assault, she was impregnated at 17 by a 35 year old married man. And even now, 40 years later, I have to remind her that too was a sexual assault. Are you comfortable talking about that, by the way, the sexual assault that you went through?

[Angela Dyborne]

Yeah, I can. I can, yeah.

[Host]

Do you think, like the father of your oldest child was 35 when you were 17 and he got you pregnant? And I'm wondering if it was like, do you think that happened to you because of the normalcy of sexual deviance as you were growing up?

[Angela Dyborne]

For sure. Absolutely. For sure. Yeah. Just how glamorized and how glamorous it was to be out at nightclubs with older men and try to look sexy and, and using sex as a tool to get a man and very much so. Like, I think because I remember being.

[Host]

Like confounded by the fact that you were with that guy.

[Angela Dyborne]

I've learned, you know, through all the stuff with Peter and everything going on there, I had to start to really look in the mirror and look at some of the things that I've been through.

[Host]

So maybe you started to realize a lot of the things you'd been through in your life weren't normal.

[Angela Dyborne]

I blocked a lot out. It only, you know, I blocked stuff out. I had to, you know, over the last few years, I've had to answer to a lot of things and sort of really re examine everything that I thought was something that's. Now I realize this was not normal because I didn't see myself as a victim. I saw myself as. It was my fault. You know, I was there. I put myself in those situations. So that's why I think it took me so long also to really start to look at Peter's victims and say, wait, it wasn't their fault for being there. It wasn't their fault for believing in a model and contract. It wasn't their. This is all Peter's fault. Yeah, all Peter's fault.

[Host]

What don't people know about Peter in this last phase of his life?

[Angela Dyborne]

I think they don't realize that he's lost his mind.

[Host]

I don't think they realize, like, literally, that's not. You don't mean figuratively. You mean I literally.

[Angela Dyborne]

I, I mean that he. I think he's been mentally ill for a long time.

[Host]

A mental illness that destroyed his family, his business, and the lives of so many women. Remember at the beginning of the show when I introduced you to Nygaard, I mentioned there's a class action lawsuit against him. Greg Gutzler is the attorney representing the those victims. Tell me in the best sort of summary you can what you know about Peter Nygaard.

[Dr. Julian Goger]

I know that he built an empire and he used the corporate machinery, he used people around him, he used psychology, he used manipulation, he used fame and power to get what he wanted. It wasn't always about sex, but it was about dominance. It was about getting what he wanted. It was about competition.

[Host]

Coming up on the next episode of Uncle Peter. 135 stories and counting. Women from 14 years old to their mid-70s. The violent tactics that he'd used to satisfy his deviant ways, his obsession with feces during sex, and the mess that he often left behind for the staff to clean up. What could possibly turn a man into a monster like this? Turns out Nygard had his own family secrets. Secrets going all the way back to the 1940s when he was a boy. A story that's emerged about Peter Nygard's background, that he was molested or potentially even sexually assaulted as a. As a young boy. And the story that was told in the family was that he was forced to go under a woman's skirt. And I know you can't diagnose Peter Nygaard, but generally speaking, if someone is molested as a boy, is that some kind of an explanation for having sexual deviance later in life?

[Dr. Julian Goger]

And if the act is perceived as a humiliating act, but was also sexually arousing, then the person might seek out sexual acts later on in life that are degrading to the individual, but also finds them arousing. So you can put two and two together and figure out if an individual had those experiences, what might be driving those behaviors.

[Host]

Behaviors further revealed in the next episode of Uncle Peter. You've been listening to Uncle Peter, a drop dead serious podcast. If you or someone you know has been a victim of sexual assault, please, please call your local sexual assault hotline.