← Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Uncle Peter | Episode 6: Justice for the Victims of Peter Nygard
00:29:41
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- [00:00]
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- [02:14]
Ashley Banfield
We are in the sixth hour of telling Peter Nygaard's story and I want to thank you for being a part of my audience. As you know by now, this story is very personal to me because I knew Peter Nygaard as a kid. I knew him as a young adult too, and I know him now. His niece, Angela Dyborne, who has been the main subject of this podcast, was one of my childhood best friends. We spent several days together recently combing through memories and photographs and stories and videos that frankly, today take our breath away. But back in the 80s when we were barely teenagers, we just thought he was kind of sleazy and that was the extent of it. Today we know so much more that he was actually a violent sexual predator, hiding in plain sight among hundreds and hundreds of admirers.
- [03:09]
Jenny Gilmer
PETER Knight.
- [03:14]
Ashley Banfield
We do the real people.
- [03:15]
Angela Dyborne
That's our marketplace.
- [03:18]
Ashley Banfield
You will not find another product as competitively priced as ours. Welcome back to Uncle Peter, a drop Dead Serious podcast. In this final episode of the Uncle Peter podcast, we're going to revisit some of the headlines and we'll tie up a few loose ends too. For us, it is our final moments together on this podcast series. Series For Peter Nygaard, at the age of 83 and in failing health, these are very likely the final days of his life. Nygaard is locked up in Canada, serving an 11 year sentence for sexual assault of four women in Canada. He also faces three more criminal trials for rapes that occurred in the last several decades. If he is still alive In January of 2025, his next trial will be in Montreal. There he'll face one count of sex assault and forcible confinement. But after that, there's another sex assault trial in Winnipeg. And once he clears that trial, he'll be sent down to New York to face a daunting federal trial in the US and finally, once all the criminal litigation has wrapped up, the class action civil suit gets started. A suit where at last count, 135 women alleged that he attacked them too. It is unlikely Peter Nygaard will live long enough to face all of his accusers in both the criminal and the civil actions. But his victims remain hopeful they'll still get justice. Same with their civil attorney, Greg Gutzler. I spoke with him at length, starting with Nygaard's law latest battle. Nygaard doesn't want to leave his hospital bed to show up in court for sentencing. And some people think he's faking his condition. Nygaard is sitting in a jail in Toronto. He's awaiting sentencing and he is falling apart. I mean, quite literally. His eyesight is failing. I've had communication that he's nearly blind and needs surgery and can't seem to get the jail to cooperate in his opinion. And he's turning 83 in the summer of 2024. So where is this going with a man in that condition?
- [05:38]
Greg Gutzler
Right. So I'm going to offer you an alternative theory on what's going on. And this is just my theory. He's now had his second criminal defense attorney withdraw for ethical reasons and the Only thing pending is a sentencing and the only real issue there is his medical condition. So part of me agrees with what you said about his medical condition and part of me starts to wonder why his attorneys are withdrawing when the key issue is his medical condition. He is certainly one who manipulates, he deceives, and that's what he does. What do I think is going to play out? He's going to get convicted in Montreal, he's going to get convicted in Winnipeg. He will get extradited to New York. If he survives, he will get convicted in New York.
- [06:22]
Ashley Banfield
What is justice for your clients?
- [06:25]
Greg Gutzler
So I'd love for Jenny to answer that, but I will tell you this, that people talk about my clients or the justice system, the civil justice system, and talk about money. I can tell you right now it is not about money. What do my clients tell me they want? They want to be believed. They want accountability and they want him and the people who supported him to take accountability and responsibility. That's what they really want. And sometimes you have to file a civil lawsuit for people to take accountability. And if he doesn't give it, we'll take it.
- [07:06]
Ashley Banfield
The Jenny that attorney Gutzler just referred to is Jenny Gilmer, one of Nygaard's accusers in the class action civil suit. That class action lawsuit is seeking more than a half billion dollars for Nygaard victims. She was just a teenager when she says Nygaard and his friends repeatedly raped her at his sprawling multi million dollar resort home in the Bahamas. 19 year old Jenny visited the Bahamas in 1998 with her family and she stayed behind to continue playing tennis. And after her family returned home to Canada under the guise of playing tennis with Nygaard, she was lured to his Bahamas property and held against her will for several weeks.
- [07:52]
Jenny Gilmer
She says, I was just, you know, an easy target. I don't even think I was his type. You know, I was just this kind of short, you know, kind of plump 19 year old. But he, he did take me to his bedroom. All of the rooms at Niagara Key are like tree houses. They're kind of all over the place. And he has his on the very top level and it's all glass. And we walked in and he took me in there to get a drink. He wanted to show me around. When the doors close, everything's locked. It's all glass. You can see out but no one can see in. And he has a code system on it and he. And it was locked.
- [08:43]
Ashley Banfield
Her mother didn't learn about the brutal rape and routine sodomizing that Jenny says She endured until many years later. All that time, Jenny's mother thought her teenage daughter was having an extended holiday and taking tennis lessons in paradise. So he took you to his bedroom to ostensibly tour you around. And what happened next?
- [09:08]
Jenny Gilmer
That day he, he had suggested to my tennis coach that I, he wanted me to wear a dress. And I thought that was very strange to wear a dress to play tennis, but I, I did. And yeah, so he, he brought me over to the bed and asked me to sit down. And at this point I was feeling a little lightheaded. We had had a couple of drinks at the court and I just felt tired, I felt a little fuzzy. I wasn't a big drinker, so I didn't really know what was happening to me at that point. And he proceeded to, you know, to lift up my dress and I asked him to stop and he did not. And then he forced himself on me and I screamed for him to stop and he did not. And at that point I just didn't have a lot of strength and I don't, no, I don't. I didn't see him put anything in my drink, but I did not have a lot of strength and everything just seemed a lot harder than it should be. And, and for, you know, for a man of his age, he was, he's actually very strong and I'm not, I wasn't a very big person either. And unfortunately he, he did rape me, but he sodomized me. And that was probably the worst pain that I have ever experienced and ever want to experience. And that is kind of the day that my life changed and I went numb. His son Kai was on the property that summer. He was knocking on the door one night when I was being sodomized and he was looking for his dad and he was just this 14 year old kid looking for his dad. And I didn't scream or anything because at that point I felt worse for him than I did for myself. And I didn't want his son to know what a monster his father was.
- [11:43]
Ashley Banfield
If you had a chance to say something to him, what would you say?
- [11:48]
Jenny Gilmer
I don't know what I would say to him because I don't think he will ever take responsibility and acknowledge what he has done. I don't believe he thinks he. I think he's made himself believe he, he did not do anything wrong. I don't believe he thinks he is a monster. He believes his own lies and he believes his own narrative and that's in his head. And at this point, I don't think that will ever change. I don't think we'll ever see justice in that way, But I probably would ask him if he was sorry for what he did to me. I don't believe he would say yes.
- [12:31]
Ashley Banfield
I asked forensic psychiatrist Dr. Julian Goger for his take on the importance of accountability and punishment to the healing process for the victims of Peter Nygaard. Can you talk about punishment and what punishing an offender does for the sense of justice for the victims?
- [12:55]
Dr. Julian Goger
We have a judicial system so that when somebody is wronged, they feel that the wrong has been rectified, that their voice has been heard, that just punishment is meted out, and the trauma that people have gone through has been acknowledged. It also gives a forum for people to put closure, to move on, and feel that they would be able to move on. On the other hand, punishment also serves as a general deterrence to the public that these things, these behaviors are not condoned by in society, that these behaviors are not moral, they're not legal, and they're not socially acceptable. So there are different aspects of what punishment might do.
- [13:38]
Ashley Banfield
How powerful is acknowledgement or apologies from an offender to a victim? Not suggesting that Peter Nygaard will ever take accountability for what he's done or apologize to his victims, but what could that actually do for victims?
- [13:54]
Dr. Julian Goger
The apology means a lot to victims, especially when they want to move on, especially when they know that the person not only acknowledged the legal wrongfulness, but the moral wrongfulness and the hurt that they caused, which allows people to then process that information and move on psychologically.
- [14:10]
Ashley Banfield
How does an apology help victims realize that they're not wrong?
- [14:13]
Dr. Julian Goger
What happens sometimes in these power dynamics that the person in power might make the person who's subjugated to their whims and desires feel guilty, and the person actually gets to believe that they did something wrong or they need to please their master. So the person needs to hear that what the person did was wrong, and it has to come from the person who was the perpetrator, that not only what they did was wrong legally, but wrong morally, and that they truly hurt that person. That allows the person who had the distorted views about the relationship they had with the person in power can be rectified, and it allows a person then to move on, both at an emotional level and at a cognitive level.
- [14:58]
Ashley Banfield
Not only does Jenny Gilmer believe that Peter Nygaard would never apologize for his cruelty and his sex abuse, she says she doesn't think he'll face full justice in the criminal system either. At 83, his clock is ticking. Three more trials could take years, but she says any guilty verdicts would be a win. What would justice be for you, Jenny?
- [15:24]
Jenny Gilmer
Justice would be him being convicted of the trials that are coming up and also being sentenced. It is in Canada, so I don't think it will be a sentence like we would see here in the United States. And so I would like him to stand trial in the States. I would like to see that before he passes. For me, that would be justice.
- [15:48]
Ashley Banfield
Do you think justice would be him dying in a cell by himself?
- [15:53]
Jenny Gilmer
I would like him to stay alive for all of his trials. I would. I don't believe that will happen. You know, he's coming up on 83. I don't believe that will happen, but I would like to see that. I would like to see him suffer and see, you know, know, guilty, guilty, guilty and all of the things thrown at him and just to hurt his pride, you know, he has a God complex. And if we can just, if we can chip away at that while he's still alive, then for me, that would be justice.
- [16:27]
Ashley Banfield
She kind of hits the nail on the head with the God complex description. Just listen to his response when I asked him if he'd be willing to be interviewed by me on the record. While still in prison and in keeping with his standard operating procedure, Peter Nygaard dictated a statement through his attorney and here's what he said. As such a long term trusted friend, this is to confirm that I am more than willing to be interviewed by you, which would presumably take many hours, which then in turn depends on how extensive an interview you are planning to do. Please let me know. In writing your intended format, you would have access to material for the writing of a book, or even many books, which then can become the basis for a movie or TV series. I'm investing heavily into a movie project to restore my reputation. You could be a significant part of such a project. Please access my website therealpeternygaard.com especially focusing on the book Nygaard the Phenomenon. Best personal regards, Peter. I'm still waiting for him to schedule a podcast interview, but he seems laser focused on me writing a series of books to clean up his image. Given everything I know about Uncle Peter, I suppose I am not surprised by the tone of his response to me and the sheer arrogance of his request. But here's what did take my breath away. During his sentencing hearing for the rapes in Toronto, his defense attorneys revealed to the court that they had 17 letters of reference, 17 character references. That's 17 actual people who wrote letters in defense of Peter, the man that I've been describing at length in this podcast, which is really strange, because apart from a girlfriend who runs his social media campaign to prove his innocence and a former business associate, there are few if any, people who have stayed connected to Peter. Defiant, delusional and narcissistic to the bitter end. He has made no mention of the lives that he destroyed. One of those lives is that of his niece, Angela Dyborne. She was a Nygard employee on and off for about 30 years. And again, she was my childhood best friend ever since her early days with the company. Angela says that she was berated and humiliated by Uncle Peter and that the abuse didn't stop there. She says she was financially abused by him too. And now, decades after it all began, Angela talked with me and exposed Uncle Peter for who he really is and what he's always been. Angela's dedication to Peter Nygaard roped her into the allegations and charges now pending against him. At one point, there was a $25 million lawsuit against her accusing her of being a NYGARD accomplice, a lawsuit that was voluntarily dismissed with prejudice, meaning it can never come back. Angela says she presented evidence, immigration paperwork showing that she wasn't in Canada at the time of the alleged incident and photographs of Grandparents Day at her child's school during that same time period. What evidence was it that cleared you?
- [19:56]
Angela Dyborne
The end. I found my passport because I contended from the moment it happened that I was not in Winnipeg, especially Winnipeg in November in Canada.
- [20:04]
Ashley Banfield
I mean, you were living in the U.S. yes, correct.
- [20:05]
Angela Dyborne
I'd already moved to Los Angeles at that point.
- [20:07]
Ashley Banfield
So your immigration paperwork showed that you had not crossed the border?
- [20:11]
Angela Dyborne
Correct. My passport, my immigration paperwork, and even details, things of like me doing stuff in Los Angeles at that exact same time, attending Grandparents Day at my kid's school with my mom there visiting us.
- [20:23]
Ashley Banfield
So it was clear cut?
- [20:23]
Angela Dyborne
It was clear cut.
- [20:25]
Ashley Banfield
But while the case was dismissed, for Angela, the damage was already done. What was the net effect of the lawsuit that you fought for several years? What was the effect on your family? What happened?
- [20:40]
Angela Dyborne
It shattered. I mean, it shattered our family. It has my children. It's ruined their lives. Especially my youngest daughter. She impacted the most. She was a 15, 16 year old. And the story started getting out and people started putting their narrative on it. And instantly people started spreading the story that be careful of Angela, Ava's mom, that she is a. She'll sex traffic you, she's a rapist. People started jumping on the story. Friends started dropping. Ava was devastated. She Was almost suicidal. There was nights where I was sleeping with her in my bed, almost like tied together. So she wouldn't. She was ready to kill herself.
- [21:24]
Ashley Banfield
Her friend's parents refused to allow her to come to your house anymore. Be friends with her.
- [21:30]
Angela Dyborne
Oh, we had. Nobody was allowed to come to our house. That was just because the kids were also like. It wasn't even the friends, parents at that stage that were not allowing her. It was like the friends that were saying, beware of Ava. Beware of Ava.
- [21:42]
Ashley Banfield
Like it was a full campaign against Ava.
- [21:44]
Angela Dyborne
It was a full campaign. Like she went from having, I think, you know, like most kids, 2,3000 Instagram followers and friends to having 2,3. She had a couple of friends. And even the ones that stayed on were eventually shifted or twisted into, Wait, Angela, Ava's mom is going to try sex traffic. You like just this. It just blew up. One of her friends copied the lawsuit and sent it out to everyone saying, beware of Ava and her family. As if Ava was going to sex traffic her friends or trying to recruit friends to sex traffic.
- [22:13]
Ashley Banfield
Her friends were all sharing.
- [22:14]
Angela Dyborne
They were sharing. And it covered the west side kids from schools all over Los Angeles, like our area of Los Angeles. Not only her own group of friends, but everybody had sort of spread like wildfire.
- [22:24]
Ashley Banfield
What happened to her group of friends?
- [22:26]
Angela Dyborne
She doesn't have any friends. She lost all of her friends. People she lost in high school. In high school and they turned.
- [22:33]
Ashley Banfield
Did she have to go to high school every day and face these kids that were calling her a sex trafficker?
- [22:38]
Angela Dyborne
The lucky part, if anything was lucky, was that we were starting off in Covid when a lot of this happened. But as she went back to school, we were. I was banned or her parents wanted me to be banned from even dropping her off and getting close to the school because they thought I was some kind of a predator as well.
- [22:55]
Ashley Banfield
And how did the kids treat her? Face to face or on social media?
- [22:58]
Angela Dyborne
They were cruel. Ava had no her social media, her friends. We lost all of her friends. Ava and I would go to our local market and people would take pictures of us, Photos of Angela and Ava and her mom. And look who we saw as being out as sexual predators.
- [23:15]
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- [24:12]
Angela Dyborne
She became a villain. She became more vilified than I was. But I wound up losing. I was working in education and I was working in schools. I came to school one time and there was a whole poster. Google Angela Diborn. She's a danger to children. Urgent. The principal of that school lost her job. She was moved first. She was suspended.
- [24:30]
Ashley Banfield
And for hiring you.
- [24:31]
Angela Dyborne
For hiring me. I lost my credentials to work in schools in Los Angeles.
- [24:36]
Ashley Banfield
Have you worked since?
- [24:37]
Angela Dyborne
I have not worked in school since.
- [24:39]
Ashley Banfield
And when you try to get a job, what happened?
- [24:41]
Angela Dyborne
I've applied for over 300 different positions. I make it quite, quite far in some application processes. But that final due diligence I think everyone does where they look up this person on the Internet for one final checkoff. It shows that Googling my name is horrifying.
- [24:57]
Ashley Banfield
You get ghosted.
- [24:58]
Angela Dyborne
I get ghosted. I get ghosted. And I almost stop applying because I don't even know what to do anymore, how to handle it.
- [25:10]
Ashley Banfield
How are you guys getting by now?
- [25:13]
Angela Dyborne
We've got small income that comes from a rental property, like from an Airbnb rental property. I think that's another kind of misunderstanding in all this is that there's some pocket of money or some pool of something that I'm living off of. We're house poor. We're pretty much money goes to our mortgage and to health insurance and other than that, living off credit cards, living off debt and it's frightening.
- [25:38]
Ashley Banfield
I've been to Angela's modest three bedroom home. It's in serious need of repair. I've seen the garage that she rents out back to make ends meet. I know all three of her kids have supported themselves since the age of 18, but this is not how I thought she'd be living. Having worked so hard for Uncle Peter since the 80s. And frankly, when I saw how she lived, I got angry at how Peter used her all of those years.
- [26:08]
Angela Dyborne
I am so broken. Not Only by him, but just by the. Even the fear of going to work for somebody where this would happen again, really, I'm afraid of.
- [26:19]
Ashley Banfield
You think this could happen again?
- [26:22]
Angela Dyborne
Not the extent of, like, the whole.
- [26:24]
Ashley Banfield
Just something.
- [26:25]
Angela Dyborne
The complex. I have no trust. I have now. Everything I ever thought I knew, it's gone. I blocked a lot out. It only, you know, I blocked stuff out. I had to. Over the last few years, I've had to answer to a lot of things and sort of reexamine everything that I thought was something that's. Now I realize this was not normal.
- [26:50]
Ashley Banfield
What's happening with Peter's three kids that I knew growing up? Bianca, Aaliyah and Kai. Are they in solidarity? Are they splintered? What's. What's their story?
- [27:02]
Angela Dyborne
I haven't really been speaking to any of them. I know that all of us, the entire family, is working on rebuilding relationships with each other. It's the whole ground zero. It's starting from fresh.
- [27:15]
Ashley Banfield
Do you think that what fractured everyone. Some people believe. Others, other people don't believe. I think what. What. What kind of bomb was thrown into the family bonds after Peter was, well, accused, charged, and then convicted?
- [27:28]
Angela Dyborne
I think, like the case and like the offices with the silos. I think a lot of family members lived in silos and were told small pieces of the story by Peter, what he wanted people to hear, including family members. And then at first, it looked like everybody was fighting against each other because they only knew small parts and thought victims and different people were. There's a lot of stuff out there that nobody understood.
- [27:53]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah.
- [27:53]
Angela Dyborne
Now, are they holding each other to blame?
- [27:55]
Ashley Banfield
Like, does some hold you to blame? Do you hold others to blame?
- [27:58]
Angela Dyborne
I think a lot of them hold me to blame. That's. That's a. That's a definitely, like, one.
- [28:02]
Ashley Banfield
Why, though?
- [28:03]
Angela Dyborne
Just because at the end, they felt that I should have known that I was so close to him, but I spent, like, hardly any more time physically with him than some of the others.
- [28:15]
Ashley Banfield
Than they did as their own kid. Like, as your niece. They're the kids.
- [28:18]
Angela Dyborne
And even, I mean, Kai made some comment about, like, how surprised we all were that he kept this part of him a secret. Peter kept that part of him a secret. The debauchery, the worst of the worst things that he was doing.
- [28:32]
Ashley Banfield
Peter was to blame for all of it. And yet he left sort of this wake of destruction. Destruction in his own family, outside his own family, and in a greater wake.
- [28:43]
Angela Dyborne
Of all the employees and of all the victims. Yeah.
- [28:46]
Ashley Banfield
It's like that's what I meant by outside the family. The victims who are going to have to suffer with this for their. It's a life sentence for them. What would your mom and your grandmother and your grandfather, what would. If they were alive today, what do you think they would say now? Given the amount of evidence, given the amount of accusations, given the criminal charges and the legal fronts he's facing, where do you think they would fall in?
- [29:14]
Angela Dyborne
I don't know if they could mentally handle it. I don't know if they could even formulate an opinion because their entire world was always built on Peter's, always right. Peter can do no wrong. Everyone else is doing this to Peter. But if they could get past that, I think they'd be horrified. My uncle is the bad guy. It's not Uncle Peter anymore. It is, you know, it's Nygaard. It's Nygaard sitting in a jail cell.
- [29:47]
Ashley Banfield
He does not have access to the high protein and fiber diet that he was eating before, his health foods. He doesn't have access to his human growth hormone, his stem cells, the daily regimen of sex that he became so reliant on. How long do you think he's going to live?
- [30:03]
Angela Dyborne
I don't think he's gonna make it out of Toronto. He might make it to Montreal, but the next case in next year. But I feel he's gonna die soon.
- [30:12]
Ashley Banfield
If Peter dies tomorrow, is anyone going to claim his body?
- [30:16]
Angela Dyborne
Hmm. I don't know. I doubt it. Like, I doubt it.
- [30:20]
Ashley Banfield
His kids won't.
- [30:22]
Angela Dyborne
We haven't talked about it, but I doubt it now. I think he'll be buried in an unmarked grave somewhere with a little plot.
- [30:30]
Ashley Banfield
How will you feel when you eventually see Peter is dead?
- [30:35]
Angela Dyborne
Probably relieved at this point.
- [30:37]
Ashley Banfield
Relieved?
- [30:38]
Angela Dyborne
Yeah.
- [30:38]
Ashley Banfield
Really?
- [30:38]
Angela Dyborne
Yeah.
- [30:39]
Ashley Banfield
Do you think you'll have any sadness for losing your uncle? I mean, you did love him at one point. You know, I have.
- [30:45]
Angela Dyborne
Like I said, I had more. You know, I've got more sadness for losing the entity of the companies. I've got more sadness that Niagara International died. And I think the part I loved in him is already dead when that part left.
- [31:00]
Ashley Banfield
You think he deserves to die alone?
- [31:02]
Angela Dyborne
Yeah, I think he deserves to die alone. I think he's hurt so many people.
- [31:07]
Jenny Gilmer
For the victims. It's not about the money. The class action is not about that. It is about him being held accountable for his actions. Because I don't believe he will ever admit to being guilty to.
- [31:23]
Angela Dyborne
My one wish would be that he could say sorry. I mean, even if he doesn't have to, or even if he can't acknowledge each and every person because he hasn't. I don't think in his brain he even realizes the extent of the damage that he's done to so, so many people. But just some way, somehow, if before all of this is over for him and before he dies, that there'd be something saying, holy hell, I messed up.
- [31:54]
Ashley Banfield
Thank you for listening to Uncle Peter, the never before heard inside story from his niece, Angela Dyborne, on the life and crimes of Peter Nygaard. Be sure to catch my next series, oh My Godmother, coming soon, about the mystery surrounding the violent murder of my godmother, Bev, and the questionable conviction of my dad's best friend, Larry. I'm Ashley Banfield, and this has been a drop dead serious podcast. If you or someone you know has been a victim of sexual assault, please, please call your local sexual assault hotline.