Unknown Male DNA? Burglary Gone Wrong? | Nancy Guthrie Missing Day 15

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield

Episode Title: Unknown Male DNA? Burglary Gone Wrong? | Nancy Guthrie Missing Day 15
Date: February 16, 2026
Host: Ashleigh Banfield

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Ashleigh Banfield delivers a comprehensive and up-to-the-minute report on the ongoing Nancy Guthrie investigation, now entering its fifteenth day. Banfield analyzes new theories, crucial forensic clues—including the discovery of unknown male DNA—and the mounting tensions, conflicting reporting, and emotional pleas from Nancy’s daughter, Savannah Guthrie. With her trademark candor and deep experience in true crime, Banfield cuts through media confusion, scrutinizes official statements, break downs law enforcement protocols, and explores why this case grips public imagination so fiercely.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Savannah Guthrie’s Emotional Plea

• Savannah Guthrie’s New Instagram Video
  • Savannah appeals directly to the perpetrator, expressing hope and urging them to "do the right thing."
  • “It’s never too late, and you’re not lost or alone. And it is never too late to do the right thing.” — Savannah Guthrie (06:39)
  • Banfield describes Savannah’s pain as “gut-wrenching” and notes her message is now focused solely on the person responsible, not on ransom.

2. Detailed FBI & Forensic Updates

• FBI’s Rare Public Statement
  • FBI confirmed that approximately 16 gloves were found in the vicinity of the Guthrie property, but clarified none were found inside the house. One glove, found two miles away, is of particular forensic interest.
  • “The one with the DNA profile recovered is different and appears to match the gloves of the subject in the surveillance video.” — FBI Statement (07:45)
  • Banfield corrects media errors: The glove’s appearance matches surveillance video, but no DNA match has been confirmed.
• Chain of Custody & Quality Control
  • Banfield emphasizes the importance of protecting evidence to ensure its admissibility:
    • “The chain of custody is so precise. Everybody who handles [the evidence] is logged.” (09:06)
    • Wonders aloud if the lab has compared DNA from the glove to the unknown male DNA found inside the house—a potential investigative breakthrough.
• Explaining CODIS & DNA Databases
  • Banfield educates listeners on the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) and its significance, noting over 19 million profiles exist in the system, with forensic profiles from unsolved crimes sometimes connecting cases (e.g. Rachel Morin case).
  • “781,000 hits. So CODIS is a very, very good thing for crime fighters.” (14:46)
  • She explains the role and privacy limitations of commercial DNA databases like 23andMe and Ancestry.

3. Multiple Theories and Conflicting Reports

• Burglary Gone Wrong?
  • New reporting from several outlets (Arizona Family, Associated Press) suggests the possibility that Guthrie’s abduction was a burglary gone wrong—not an orchestrated kidnapping, but experts and law enforcement insiders strongly push back.
  • “A local law enforcement source tells me, ‘This is not the working theory inside the unit.’” — Michael Ruiz, Fox News Digital (33:19)
  • Sheriff Chris Nanos: “We will let the evidence take us to motive.” (33:58)
• Media Confusion & Competing Sourcing
  • NBC reports that authorities are “leaning away” from previously scrutinized suspects, but local reporting disagrees, citing ongoing DNA testing related to the silver Range Rover seized in a recent raid (24:43, 27:57).
  • Banfield remarks: “It’s a tennis match. The investigation just seems all over the place, as does some of the reporting.” (30:41)
• Neighborhood Perspective & Crime Context
  • Local association president Tom Pugh (Catalina Foothills) confirms how unprecedented the crime is:
    • “In the 50 years that I’ve lived here, I’ve never heard of any crime like this. By and large, there’s just no crime.” (36:45)

4. Key Evidence: Gloves, DNA, and Crime Scene

• Gloves as Central Evidence
  • 16 gloves found in the area, most likely from searchers or unrelated litter, but one glove visually matches the suspect in surveillance footage and yields an unknown male DNA profile.
  • Legal experts highlight the “garden of gloves” issue—a burden for prosecutors, as unrelated gloves are often found and can muddy trials (19:07).
  • “There’s always a glove found, Ashleigh. Every time you look... there are gloves everywhere.” — Legal Expert (19:07)
• Chain of Custody & Prosecution Challenges
  • Gloves found after 11 days raises questions about search thoroughness and the defense’s potential arguments (19:29).
• Terrain Challenges in Search and Escape
  • Detailed reporting by Brian Enten and former border patrol agent Art Delacueto demonstrates how treacherous, dark, and difficult the area is, even for locals:
    • “If you do have some type of Ring camera and it’s dark and you have this terrain, you’re really not going to get much.” — Brian Enten (40:26)
    • Delacueto speculates it’s possible to reach Mexico at night via these washes, though border security is tighter than ever (41:08).
  • Banfield also questions whether the perpetrator used navigation apps, which could become a new investigative angle (42:00).

5. Law Enforcement Tools and Search Methods

• Signal Sniffer Technology
  • A specialized device is being used to attempt to detect Nancy’s pacemaker signal from a helicopter—a first in Ashleigh’s reporting experience (44:03).
  • Banfield speculates drones might be more effective and raises privacy implications.
• Bloodhounds & Cadaver Dogs
  • Banfield notes the surprising lack of visible canine search teams, underscoring how early suspension of large-scale search may have shaped investigative options (47:30).

6. Emotional and Social Impact

• Public Fascination
  • Banfield reflects on why this case is dominating national attention, comparing it to the Idaho college murders:
    • “Who does this? This is the question that connects us all on a story that we can’t shake as a nation.” (52:29)
  • The vulnerability of Nancy Guthrie and the emotional resonance for Savannah fuel public empathy and assign universal stakes to the mystery.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|----------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 06:39 | Savannah Guthrie | "It’s never too late, and you’re not lost or alone. And it is never too late to do the right thing." | | 09:06 | Ashleigh Banfield | "The chain of custody is so precise. Everybody who handles [the evidence] is logged." | | 14:46 | Ashleigh Banfield | "781,000 hits. So CODIS is a very, very good thing for crime fighters." | | 19:07 | Legal Expert | "There’s always a glove found, Ashleigh. Every time you look... there are gloves everywhere." | | 33:19 | Michael Ruiz (via Banfield) | "A local law enforcement source tells me, ‘This is not the working theory inside the unit.’" | | 36:45 | Tom Pugh | "In the 50 years that I’ve lived here, I’ve never heard of any crime like this. By and large, there’s just no crime." | | 40:26 | Brian Enten | "If you do have some type of Ring camera and it’s dark and you have this terrain, you’re really not going to get much." | | 41:27 | Art Delacueto | "It’s highly likely she could be in Mexico. It’s my opinion that might be one of the places that would logically make some sense to deal with her..." | | 52:29 | Ashleigh Banfield | "Who does this? This is the question that connects us all on a story that we can’t shake as a nation." |

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Savannah’s Instagram Plea: 05:56–06:46
• FBI Statement & DNA/Glove Analysis: 06:46–13:17
• Explanation of CODIS & DNA Databases: 13:18–14:46
• Multiple Gloves Found, Legal Perspective: 19:07–20:41
• Terrain Walk and Discussion with Brian Enten & Art Delacueto: 38:02–41:27
• Pushback Against “Burglary Gone Wrong” Theory: 33:19–36:45
• Emotional Reflection—'Who Does This?': 52:29–end

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Tone and Language

Ashleigh Banfield’s language is direct, conversational, and often irreverent—she doesn’t shy from expressing frustration at media confusion (“cable news were really fucking it up…”), concern for investigative thoroughness, or empathy for the Guthrie family. Her reporting blends technical true-crime expertise with relatable, at times darkly humorous, commentary intended to demystify complex forensic and legal issues for a wide audience.

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Summary Takeaways

• The Nancy Guthrie case remains highly active, complex, and deeply uncertain, with evidence (especially male DNA from a glove) now at the forensic center of the probe.
• Theories about the case’s nature—kidnapping, burglary gone wrong, or something else—are hotly contested, with media reports sometimes contradicting each other and law enforcement remaining publicly noncommittal.
• The case’s impact is amplified by emotional pleas from Savannah Guthrie, public empathy for the 84-year-old victim, and unresolved shock at the nature of the crime.
• Technological and forensic details, such as DNA analysis, chain of custody, and advanced search tools (signal sniffers), are pivotal.
• Banfield advocates for patience, critical thinking, and skepticism toward unnamed sources as the search for Nancy Guthrie and the quest for answers continues.

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If you’re following this case or simply fascinated by true crime, Banfield’s deep-dive brings essential clarity, sharp analysis, and an emotional throughline that keeps the investigation’s human stakes in the foreground.

Transcript

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[Ashley Banfield]

Hi everybody, I'm Ashley Banfield. This is drop dead Serious. Thank you so much for being here. It's another late one. I know it's a really late night because I was about to do this podcast about two hours ago and then suddenly things started happening and information started coming in. So I put it off so that I could have a full collection for you. And I have a really big collection of information for you on Nancy Guthrie investigation. First of all, thank you so much for being here and, and thank you for being a subscriber and the members. You guys are like amazing. Thank you so much. If you are not subscribed, do it. Hit the thing, the button to subscribe. Thank you. I'd appreciate it. It does me a solid. I really love the folks who are joining. I have a lot for you tonight, starting with a new message from Savannah. Savannah has taken to Instagram again and it is just heart wrenching to see her, the pain in her face as she appeals to the kidnapper, the person who has her mother or those who know where her mother is to please for the love of God, it's not too late. It's not too late. She's appealing to their better angels, if they have any. I'm going to show you that in just a moment. Also, the FBI did something they do not normally do. They put out a statement. They actually gave it to News Nation. And at first I thought it was a typo because I thought the FBI doesn't usually do this. They don't update any anybody. They work in absolute silence. And they didn't do that in this particular case. They, they made comments about the gloves, plural, the many 16 gloves that they have now collected and the specific one in particular, that's the most important. I'm going to break down everything about it and why it matters and some things that people aren't reporting on, like why chain of custody is critical here. That's coming in just a minute. Also, there's new reporting tonight that people are beaten up. New reporting that this may be considered by law enforcement authorities as a burglary gone wrong. But the pushback on it is intense from a number of different sources. So I'm going to give you the reporting and who's pushing back on it, and I'm going to give you some information just about the burglaries in this area. And you know, this has caused people in the neighborhood to be understandably panicked, people who live there. So it's important that the people who live there in the local community get accurate reporting because they don't always hear from the authorities. I lived this game for a long time and the authorities do not always tell us what's happening, and sometimes they tell us the opposite. Sorry to say, no smear on them. They got a hard job to do and they've got to do it in a certain way. But that doesn't mean that reporters shouldn't seek the truth. So I'm going to tell you what that is in a minute. Also, NBC says it's got a couple of sources saying that law enforcement is starting to lean away from people that they thought might be responsible. Not just one or two, several. And I'll give you that reporting in a minute as well. And Brian Enten, God, he's so good. He's so good. He returned to the scene of the raid from Friday night and he walked right up to the front door. I'll tell you what happened, what the result was. There's a whole lot coming in this podcast. So as I say, warm up your milk because it's late or if you're waking up, juice your juice into a Mimosa or something and get comfy, because I got a lot to tell you. Savannah's new Instagram. I have been, like, refreshing constantly, and the minute this dropped, I watched. And it is really, really painful. But you can see there's a couple things I want you to watch for. Number one, what is her message? Obviously, it's a painful message. She's traumatized, and the torment she's living is like nothing anybody ever could imagine. She's been at this two weeks now, trying to deal with this new reality in her life. But gone are the messages to anybody who was talking about ransom. Now, it seems to be a message directly to the person or persons who did this. Have a look.

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I wanted to come on, and.

[Ashley Banfield]

It'S.

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Been two weeks since our mom was taken, and I just wanted to come on and say that we still have hope and we still believe. And I wanted to say to whoever has her or knows where she is, that it's never too late, and you're not lost.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Or alone.

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And it is never too late to do the right thing.

[Ashley Banfield]

So she is appealing to the better angels. If there are any, like I said, of these criminals, of these monsters who've done this, whether she worked with authorities on that, I. I'm not so sure. It was very authentic. I did not feel like she was reading anything. But they have been working with her to obviously help the family, because that is what the FBI does. So let's talk about the FBI, because they don't do this. Most of the stories I work on, they don't do this. But they put out a statement. They gave it to News Nation's Libby Dean, and this is what they said about the. The gloves that we've all been reporting on. Right. First of all, if you missed it in the other episodes, it was a complete reversal of reporting from all of those entities. I think it started with Fox News and then that there'd been a glove found inside the house. Not true. Nope. They knocked that down very quickly the next day. But they did say that gloves had been found in the vicinity of the property, but not on the property. Let me read the FBI statement verbatim. It says the gloves found approximately two miles from the Guthrie residence in a field near the side of the road, were packaged up by the Pima county sheriff and sent overnight on February 12, and they arrived at their private lab in Florida on February 13th. The FBI received preliminary results yesterday on February 14th. That's Saturday. And are awaiting quality control. I'll get to that in a second. And Official confirmation today before putting unknown mail profile into codis. I'll explain that in a minute, too. The national database unique to the bureau. This process typically takes 24 hours from when the Bureau receives data DNA. So they got them yesterday. They're awaiting the quality control. The official confirmation today. They will put them into codis. It could have happened, could have happened today. And then 24 hours later they'll get, you know, they'll get some results. So I'll continue what they said. Investigators collected approximately 16 gloves in various areas near the house. Most of them were searchers gloves that they discarded in various areas when they searched the vicinity. The one with the DNA profile recovered is different and appears to match the gloves of the subject in the surveillance video. The FBI has and will continue to provide assistance on whatever timeline is provided to us. Let me just break that down. The one meaning the one glove. I am assuming they're referring to the plural gloves found approximately two miles from the Guthrie residence in a field have been packaged up by the Pima county sheriff and sent off to the lab. Then they're referring to the one. I'm a little confused by that. But we can only go by what the FBI is saying in the statement. In any case, when they say that's different, it means it's a big focus. It's a glove that looks a lot like the one in the video. Right. A lot of reporters were getting it wrong in the lower thirds on the cable news were really fucking it up earlier by saying, oh, the DNA matches. The DNA is not matching anything. Let's be really clear. The glove itself, what it looks like, looks a lot like the thing on the video. Right? By the monster on the video. That's what's similar. But I have to tell you, Brian Enten had some really interesting things to say earlier. Those gloves, in one of his reports today, those gloves are used by hairdressers, they're used by mechanics, they're used by construction workers. Those gloves are used by a lot of people. Right. Turns out they're also used by searchers, as we've just come to learn. I'm going to get to that in a minute. I've got some really good pictures I'm going to show you. Like you're going to lose your shit. Actually in a hot minute. When I show you some of these pictures, I don't think you're going to be very happy, but I'm going to show them to you in a minute. I still want to stay on the statement though, because when they Talked about quality control. I'm trying to read into what quality control is. I'm trying to think maybe chain of custody, like they've got to be really, really careful, right? When a lab does its work in a criminal investigation, the chain of custody is so precise, everybody who handles it, it is logged, it is careful. It is cautiously handled. And if you're going to send it off to another entity in a certain way, that's got to be very careful. So I'm assuming that might they mean by quality control, maybe it isn't comment. Let me know. If you work for the FBI and you can read that language a little differently than I can say something, and I will absolutely put that out in tomorrow's. Tomorrow's episode. But I am very curious why there was no comment from the FBI about taking that DNA from this one glove, the one that is different and appears to match the gloves in the subject of the surveillance video. Did they take that DNA and also check it against the DNA that was found inside Nancy Guthrie's house, The unknown male DNA that did not match anybody in her direct circle of, you know, friends and colleagues and family. That's what I'm curious about. Did that DNA match the unknown DNA in the house? Because that, that's. You're getting somewhere, right? What are the odds there'd be some unknown male DNA inside Nancy's house and then there'd be the same DNA on the side of the road in a black glove two miles away? Right. Just cast out on the side of the road. That would be a massive, massive jump in this story and in this investigation. Don't know, though. They didn't say anything about that. They're doing it. Trust me. There's no way. They're not doing it. Okay, now I want to talk to you a little bit about codis because you probably heard a lot about codis. Everybody talks about CODIS and they never break it down. It's the Combined DNA Index System. Combined DNA Index System. Sometimes it's called the CODIS nis. That's the national index system. Same thing, but basically that is. It's a. It's a big, huge collection of criminals and all their DNA. Big old collection of bad guys and girls. Let me give you some stats as of just this past November. And this is from the FBI. In the CODIS database of DNA, there are 19 plus million offender profiles.

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[Ashley Banfield]

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[Ashley Banfield]

Holy shit. That's a big old cache of bad people, right? And you can take DNA and you can check it against the bad guys that they've collected in this big codis bucket. Yeah, 6 million plus people arrested are in there as well. Because often when you're arrested, your DNA is taken and you could be cleared and you could be, you could be exonerated, but that profile is still in there. There's also 1.45 million forensic profiles. Here's what I think about that. Forensic profiles are profiles from other crimes that forensic investigators have discovered. Maybe they haven't linked it to someone, but it's a forensic profile they'll put into CODIS and say, this is an unknown that we found at this scene. We've never been able to solve it, but suddenly it might show up at another crime. And now you can link crimes. Do you remember that young girl who was assaulted in California? And there was a guy who came out of the house and you could see the back of him and suddenly it was connected to a rape and murder in Maryland, Rachel Morin. So there is a forensic connection. So a forensic profile can be from something that's unsolved and then you can connect it to other crimes. Right? Could also be from guys who are dead. Yeah, maybe it's a killer who died, and they've got that profile in there. So a lot of information. There's basically a lot of information in CODIS, and it's actually produced over 781,000 hits. So CODIS is a very, very good thing for crime fighters. And by the way, that's not just codis. That's the thing. It's not just codis because Brian Kohberger, he wasn't an offender before he decided to slaughter four innocent kids. Right. He wasn't in codis. So how did they find that DNA from the knife sheath? Well, there are a lot of different DNA databases, and some of them are commercial. You and I probably bought it for somebody for Christmas or a birthday. You know, genealogy sites like 23andMe and Ancestry.com that's an enormous amount of DNA. However, you know, it took a decade or so to figure out that people got real antsy about, you know, being a part of a company and then finding that their DNA is being shared with law enforcement and that grandpa just got arrested. So. So they tightened up the privacy pieces of those private companies. And so now what you'll see is that you check a box if you want to be included in the database, and if you don't want to be included in the database, you don't have to be. And so law enforcement can go with the voluntary folks in those databases. Right. And they can do their genetic genealogy work that way as well. And there's some other databases as well that are out there. But generally speaking, it's not just the bad guy codis, it's not just the offender profiles that they can go into. They can actually go into these other sources as well. So you just know they're going to put that in there and figure out where to go from there. Here's what I was telling you about earlier, about the idea that 16 gloves have been found in the area around, you know, Nancy's property. I know. It makes me crazy, too. First of all, I'm not a litterbug, and I really hate that people are, but people are. And sometimes it's accidental. So take a look at the New York Post pictures. They've got pictures of multiple gloves all over that area. Right. And this is kind of par for the course. This isn't just weird about Nancy's area. These aren't just Nancy's searchers necessarily. I talked to Matt Murphy the other night, and he said, jesus, if I could tell you how many gloves are out there, they're Everywhere. Every state, every highway, every everything. Think of the number of trucks that you've seen driving on highways with open backs and maybe workers in the back as well. Some of that stuff's just flying out. Sometimes it's litter, sometimes it's accidental. But a lot of workers use those gloves, and they can just make their way, you know, into the litter category. But here's the way Matt put it. You know, that also, you know, tells me about today's report. There was a glove that was found on the side of the road a mile and a half from Nancy's house, one of the black gloves. That's similar as seen in the video. And then after that, Fox Digital reported that a pair of gloves was found in the area. That's all I can tell you. I don't know more than that, but, I mean, that's.

[Legal Expert/Prosecutor]

That's shocking right now, that there's always a glove found, Ashley. Every time you look, there are. There's always. When you get into the garden, there are gloves everywhere. And it's a weird feature. There's gardening gloves, there's workers gloves. You know, I was in Central park last week. Despite the cold, there's one mitten. Everywhere you go, there's. There's gloves. Okay, so when you.

[Ashley Banfield]

I just find it weird that they're finding it 11 days later. That should have been found. I mean, you know, within the first few days. Ideally, yeah, they were black.

[Legal Expert/Prosecutor]

I don't know how far away it was. But when you're. When you're doing that and you're collecting that information as a prosecutor, when, like when you send people in to. And you got a search. But that gives me almost like Vietnam flashbacks to all the times we found gloves that weren't related to the case. And then the defense comes in every single time, and it's like, look at the DNA in this glove. It's not my client. This is the real killer. So you're handing nuggets to the defense. It's supposed to be thoroughly searched. That's something that the lawyers at trial, if they ever get a suspect in charge, somebody will have to navigate through. But, you know, there are. There's the investigation. It's like the beginning of law and order right there. There are two equal parts. The investigation and the prosecution. They got to be mindful of that. And I haven't. I don't know where the DA for Pima county is. I would expect that he would be up on that stage. I would. I would think, haven't seen an agency or her agency would be responsible for taking that baton and getting justice in the case if they ever get a suspect. And I don't know what's going on with that.

[Ashley Banfield]

So there you have it. And then Jennifer Coffendoffer, who's former FBI, she works a lot on News Nation. I've interviewed her a ton of times. She's very, very smart. She was in the bureau for a long time. She tweeted out an amazing picture that gives you an idea of why some of those gloves might be from the searchers. These are pictures of authorities, including with the FBI, who've got their gloves in their back pockets as they're working. Right. They're walking down the highways. They're doing the work. They're in the rough terrain. And so I just want to give credit where credit's due. A user named Pink Star Shimmer provided those pictures. And I think it's just very insightful as to why gloves may end up being found. Right. When you have a very big search and it turns out, doesn't feel like this one was as big a search because do you remember on day two when the sheriff told us the search has been called off permanently? And I lost my shit because I thought, what do you mean? It's a little early. They had their reasons. Think about it. They had their reasons early on. They had their reasons for calling off the search early. Right. I think I reported on a couple of reasons why they had a laser focus. They towed a car, processed it by warrant, and this might be the reason they called off the search. They were absolutely laser focused and they knew who they wanted to. Has that changed? Don't know. But I've got more reporting on that. Something that Brian Enten found out today when he interviewed a guy named Sergeant Aaron Cross. Aaron Cross is with the Pima County Sheriff's Office. He's the union president. He didn't feel as optimistic about the discovery of all of these gloves. And let me play for you how he put it. Take a look.

[Brian Enten]

Apparently there's a lot of gloves that have been found.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah. What do you make of that?

[Brian Enten]

I mean, I guess these gloves are used for all sorts of purposes.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It seems it is pretty common. It could be from investigators. It could also be. I mean, we have a large amount of homeless that live and camp in the area. We also have. We've experienced a lot of nighttime car break ins in this area as well. So, I mean, it could be from. From any one of those things. Hopefully it's. It's related to the Guthrie kidnapping or incident and they're able to get some DNA out of it and it breaks the case open. But I understand it was found a couple miles away. Hopefully as he's driving away, he throws his gloves out the window. Maybe we'll get a lucky break. But there's, there's a lot of possibilities.

[Ashley Banfield]

So we will see. You know, we'll see what happens when they test these gloves. They might just find it's just some worker that'll suck to be him. You expect one of those raids, Right. And we've been told by the sheriff expect a lot of activity in the days to follow. Didn't see any today, but there was a lot, you know, last night. And I've got news about that in a minute. But let me tell you a little bit about what NBC is reporting late this evening. They said they've got two sources familiar with the investigation that authorities are now leaning away from several people previously scrutinized, including the man whose home was searched on Friday night. That was the big raid that we saw. That was connected to a silver Range Rover that was towed. And I've got news on that in a minute. Also a man named Carlos who was stopped in a car last week. That was the other raid. And here's what's key. And any of Guthrie's relatives. The sources cautioned that no one has been officially ruled out and investigators continue to pursue leads. But it's really interesting to hear this, NBC saying two sources familiar with the investigation told NBC News that authorities are leaning away from these people. So that's really interesting, especially given the next report that I'm going to tell you about. And this comes from Brianna Whitney. Brianna is a local reporter in Phoenix. She works for Arizona Family. Arizona Family is an unusual brand, but they that's the brand. Arizona Family is the brand that incorporates these television stations, KTVK and kpho. And Brianna's been doing some good reporting. And she along with the Associated Press report the following. And I'm going to read directly from what they filed. Tucson, Arizona, new investigative leads are being uncovered in the Nancy Guthrie case. And an inside source tells Arizona Family true crime correspondent Brianna Whitney that there is a widespread belief that the 84 year old could be alive. In the past week, multiple experts who reviewed the doorbell camera footage with Arizona family reporters said the incident did not appear to be a planned kidnapping. Now the inside source says that investigators believe this was a burglary gone wrong. So again, let's go back up to that multiple experts who reviewed the doorbell cam not insiders. It was multiple experts who reviewed said that it did not appear to be a planned kidnapping. But now an inside source says the investigators believe this was a burglary gone wrong. She doesn't say who the inside source is or what kind of source is this. The law enforcement source. Is this somebody associated with it? She doesn't say. On Sunday afternoon, the source said investigators are waiting for DNA evidence results from a Range Rover SUV that was towed at a Tucson area Culver's restaurant late Friday. So that directly refutes what was said by NBC. Right, that they're leaning away. Our sources are two sources on NBC are leaning away from poor Carlos and then this guy Friday night who was grabbed at the Culver's. This is suggesting that they're waiting on DNA evidence from that Range Rover suv. Can tell you somebody else who says they're waiting on evidence from the Range Rover DNA testing from the Range Rover is Brian Enten from News Nation. So there's like this is reporting that's at odds and everybody has their. Their different sources. I always want to know what level, what level are your sources? Are they a friend of an investigator who heard in the bathroom? I don't know. They don't specify what level of source. But to me it's always really important to specify how good is this source? Who are these two sources familiar with the investigation? So as for that raid the other night on Friday night, that kept us all awake until, you know, 4 o' clock in the morning. You know, you heard the reports, three people were detained and that there were no arrests the next day. But, you know, the investigation is continuing. And Brian Andton has been reporting about further investigations that are ongoing regarding what happened that night and especially the silver Range Rover that was hooked up and towed off and is being tested. But Brian is so good at his job, he went back to the neighborhood and he checked in on that house that was rated. Here's his reporting then I got so.

[Brian Enten]

Distracted with all the other developments of the weekend. But this is what the neighborhood looks like. It's a pretty nice neighborhood. It's interesting because again, it was so dark when I was out here. It's interesting to see it all in the daylight. This is the house here that the SWAT activity happened at. And it's pretty quiet around. I'm gonna go to the door and see if anybody is home at the.

[Ashley Banfield]

It.

[Brian Enten]

Doesn't look like anybody's answering. I think other reporters have already been here. Not sure if anyone's home, although there is a car oh, hi. We'll be right there. It said, I don't think anyone's coming. I did. I saw someone in the window. Hello. Hello? There was a woman that just opened the blind just for a second, but, yeah, I don't think they're coming out. Like I said, I think I've. Some of the reporters have been here, and it looked like kind of an older woman that opened the curtain just for a second. There's this car that was in an accident in the driveway.

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[Brian Enten]

Yeah. So this is the neighborhood. It's pretty. Again, a pretty nice neighborhood. Kind of reminds me of Nancy Guthrie's.

[Art Delacueto]

Neighborhood a little bit.

[Brian Enten]

It's about two miles away. But it. The houses are much, much closer together and they're out closer to the road. In Nancy's neighborhood, there's obviously a lot more like shrubbering cactuses in the front.

[Ashley Banfield]

So there's more about that raid, too, from Brian Enten, the SWAT raid from Friday night where the woman and the man, presumably a mother and a son, were taken out of their home. The home was searched. They were taken next door. At least the woman was taken next door to her neighbors to wait it out. And then another man, presumably another son, was, you know, held up at the. Detained at the. At the Culver Restaurant where the silver Range Rover was. There's more that's happening there, including investigative leads and DNA testing that's still under investigation from that raid. And again, Brian Entin saying that the silver Range Rover is still under investigation, including DNA testing from the. From the silver Range Rover. So I think it's just super fascinating that that is still in play, and yet we've got these other reports that suggest it's not. It's just the investigation just seems all over the place, as does some of the reporting on it as well. It's just hard to know exactly what is happening. One thing we do know, they don't have, Nancy.

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[Ashley Banfield]

So I'm, I'm going to now tell you about some serious pushback on that reporting. Again, everybody's got their different sources and Fox News Channel as well as Fox News Digital, they have blanketed this story. They got over 30 people down there doing some just incredible work. Michael Ruiz from Digital and also Matt Finn from the News channel have both been doing stellar reporting and I've got some like serious pushback. Michael Ruiz sent this out. Authorities are distancing themselves from fresh reporting suggesting Nancy Guthrie's abduction is believed to be a burglary gone wrong and that the quote, widespread investigative belief is that the missing 84 year old quote could be alive. A local law enforcement source tells me again, Michael Ruiz, quote, this is not the working theory inside the unit, end quote. And adds that nighttime residential burglaries are rare. For his part, Sheriff Nanos, Chris Nanos told Matt Finn from FOX News Channel, let me read. Matt's reporting, quote, did not come from us. No idea. And even though that is one of many possibilities, we would never speculate such a thing. We will let the evidence take us to motive. No comment from the FBI says Matt Finn, FOX News Channel. Also, Matt says no suspects have been publicly identified but the FBI is currently awaiting additional tests results on a glove that appears to match the one the ones seen on Nancy Guthrie's nest doorbell camera. Here's Michael Ruiz a little bit later with more pushback on the Arizona family and Associated Press reporting. Again, that's the reporting that this is looking like a burglary gone wrong and that they are believing that Nancy Guthrie is alive. Michael is quoting law enforcement as saying, quote, nighttime residential burglaries are so ridiculously rare. Crazy rare. Commercial building burglaries at residential during the day. We don't have any indication she kept really anything valuable there. And if this was a burglary gone wrong, they don't take the victim with them. Usually, I guess anything is possible, but my gut says it's something else entirely. End quote. So really interesting to hear the competing theories and the competing reports on this and to hear the competing sourcing. Again, I come back to, who are the sources? What level are the sources? How dialed in are they? How far outside the actual knowledgeable investigators are they? That's important to think about. Okay, so the stats on burglaries and home invasions, I started to think, okay, I really would love to know about Tucson's statistics on nighttime home invasions and burglaries and kidnappings and murders and all the rest. And I got this, at least from the Catalina Foothills association president, Tom Pugh. He told Fox News Digital, quote, in the 50 years that I've lived here, I've never heard of any crime like this. By and large, there's just no crime. Or, you know, the crime that does occur is a petty kind of crime where someone might leave their car unlocked and kids walk by and take something. But nothing like this has occurred since I've been here. Again, Tom Pugh telling Fox News Digital, he's the Catalina Foothills association president, you would think he would know. 50 years he's been there. Says, yeah, maybe some kids steal stuff when they see a car unlocked, but nothing else. Okay, so about the. The terrain, because I know a lot of people have said, well, couldn't it be possible that all these properties seem to be open to each other or there's rough terrain in between them. But you could certainly walk right up on a property from the back and not, say, use the roadways. And to that end, Brian Enten from News Nation, again, unbelievable reporter. He did this walk and talk and went out into that rough terrain where all the cacti are and all the rattlesnakes and all the rest. And he went out with a former border patrol agent named Art Delacueto and got a real lay of the land. And when I say real lay of the land, you got to imagine what you're about to see and think about it in the pitch black of night again with animals and rattlesnakes and all the other things that the desert offers. So take a look at Brian's reporting.

[Brian Enten (continued reporting)]

The terrain, where we're used to walking through and track trafficking, trying to track traffickers. Human smuggling and drug smuggling. But the way this is called the wash, a lot of people haven't. Don't use that terminology. And as if. As we walk through here, you'll see this is kind of like a trail where you know which way to walk. In there you're gonna have some broken branches in this area.

[Brian Enten]

Everything's like. Got thorns too, huh?

[Brian Enten (continued reporting)]

Everything's got a thorns. And I think the difference is people hear desert landscape and they almost think that it's nothing but sand. And you could see my. So this is basically the brush. And as you walk further in, these are called. This is. This is the actual wash. These are the washes. You know, we haven't walked too far, but if you go this way and here, I will show you. If it's dark out here or even now, vehicles can walk, go through this neighborhood and they're not going to see anybody in this area of the brush. Now this is called the wash. When it rains, you get water through here, of course, but they're dry most of the time. So you can walk through these areas and pull up behind some of these houses.

[Brian Enten]

You could drive into some of these areas.

[Brian Enten (continued reporting)]

There's some areas where you'd be able to drive it be more difficult, but you could, you could definitely drive maybe like a quad through here. There's a house right there. And as, as if we continue walking through here, I mean, you'll see there's a house there. You probably couldn't see it when we were in, in the brush. But you're going through all this area and at night, somebody that would know the terrain can walk through here and.

[Art Delacueto]

Literally.

[Brian Enten (continued reporting)]

You wouldn't know. We're probably, what, 20ft from. From the road and from where we're standing, we can't see my truck. With some of these cameras, you would not be able to see the street.

[Art Delacueto]

The topography, as you can see, we're heading into the Saguaro Monument is another challenge. The desert is not necessarily. It's beautiful, but it's not always friendly. There are a number of risks out there with thorny bushes and cactus and poisonous animals.

[Brian Enten (continued reporting)]

Now imagine this at night when it is completely dark and there are no street cap, there's no street lights out here. There's absolutely no street lights. So that just adds to how difficult it is. And if you do have some type of ring camera and it's dark and you have this truck, you're really not going to get much out of a ring camera.

[Art Delacueto]

The topography is extreme. We're at 3,000ft in elevation right in right where we're at, right, right now. And there's a mountain in front of us that goes up to close to 7,000ft. And there's a mountain to the north of us that goes almost 10,000ft. And everything in between creates a topography that's a challenge ready for.

[Brian Enten]

They bring her into Mexico or bring.

[Brian Enten (continued reporting)]

Her into Mexico or even, you know, I'll be honest.

[Brian Enten]

Are there ways to do that though, without being seen?

[Brian Enten (continued reporting)]

So there's areas obviously that are poorest still within the border. Our border is more secure than it's ever been. We've all heard that and it is true. But in Arizona there's still porous areas where you could possibly head south, especially at nighttime.

[Art Delacueto]

It's highly likely she could be in Mexico. It's my opinion that might be one of the places that would logically make some sense to deal with her until what they want, what they're demanding is satisfied.

[Ashley Banfield]

I didn't even talk about scorpions. That's one of my like biggest fears of the desert. I don't spend a lot of time in the desert, but I fear scorpions because they crawl into your shoes and they crawl into your boots. And I do remember people saying when I was in the desert, in, when I was a war correspondent, you got to shake out those boots every night. And I used to shake up my boots every night fearing these friggin scorpions. I never did have one, thank God. But that's one of the things, you know, you really got to think about just the dangers that are out there. So it's not just as easy as you could imagine just sneaking up on a property from the back way in. I thought that was really wise of Brian Enten to go out there and just show us. So think about the guy that did this. Brian has told us how hard it is to get around there at night. It is really hard to get around there. He gets lost all the time, even in the daytime and at night. No lights anywhere on those roads. Nothing. There's no street lights. It's under ordinance because of the stargazing University of Arizona and their astronomy work. There's no lights anywhere. So it's very, very difficult to make your way around there. And Brian uses ways every time he's driving day and night. So what did this perpetrator do? Did he know his way? Was he very familiar with the neighborhood? Did he use Waze or Google Maps? Because that's something they should be able to find out, right? That's an easy one. Who was fucking around at 1:47 in the morning in this particular area because not a lot of people are out driving there at that time of night, right? It just made me realize that's a real investigative possibility either way. Either this guy was using some kind of mapping system, right? Or he wasn't and knows his way around. So it's just informative, right? Just to know someone's out there skulking around. They're not. They're not the kind of people that you would think would just, like, drive around lost, you know, with a kidnapped person in your trunk or seat or wherever, wondering where they are. You think they'd know to get the hell out of there and fast and how to do that. Something else that I thought about when I watched the video several times, the bite light that I am convinced this guy has in his mouth because of the number of times he looks down and light shows up on the ground right at the point where he's stepping up, right at the point where he pulls the vines, right at the point where he scans inside the vestibule looking for something before he pulls the vines. There's night. There's a. There's a light. And then the close up of his face when he's actually, you know, messing with the camera, there's a light coming out of his mouth. So a lot of people talked about the bite light. Bite lights are small lights you can put in your mouth. Mechanics, people who need their hands, need to be hands free. They can use bite lights. But as he looks down so many times in that tiled area, it made me wonder if he didn't drop saliva. Because if you put something in your mouth and you try to keep it in your mouth without your lips, it's hard to swallow. And having your mouth looking down might stand to reason that some of his saliva may have actually dropped. It would be dry, not obvious to the human eye. But is it possible that his DNA is right there on that front tiled entrance, right near the sticks? Because every time he's lighting it up, he's working his mouth and it's not closing around the light. So it's possible. It's very possible that his saliva is somewhere in there. I wonder if that's one of the things they were testing for when they brought that white tent out. There's something else I want to talk about is the signal sniffer, because this was big. We talked about it last night. Brian Entin told us about the signal sniffer that was sent in by the feds and affixed to The. To the runners of the. Of the choppers. I got more reporting on that from News Nation's Libby Dean. And she adds to Brian's reporting. Let me read this. She says the signal sniffer technology being used to detect Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker is sophisticated FBI technology. According to an FBI source speaking to News Nation, the signal sniffer is a small device that was sent in and attached to the sheriff's helicopter. It can detect Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker signal. The helicopter has to stay low and move slowly for it to work. Wow. Listen, about what, four or five days ago, when I talked to Matt Murphy, who's a homicide prosecutor from California, he and I talked about the pacemaker. He himself said, I wish they could get Nancy's phone and, like, fly it around because it'll reconnect to the pacemaker. Was a great idea. Right. And here it is actually playing out with the signal sniffer. I don't know how close you got to be with a signal sniffer. With the phone. You got to be 10 to 30ft. A little hard to bring a helicopter 30ft from your roof of anybody's roof. But you know what? You can get really close to people's homes, their roofs, their windows. Drones. They're quiet, they hover, they can go anywhere. I just wonder if that signal sniffer might not be better served on a drone than the skid of a helo. Right. I just can't imagine helicopters having to buzz that close. Again, I don't know the efficacy of these signal sniffers. First of all, I love that they exist. I do. I just. I'm just always amazed when I see about new crime fighting technology. I just don't know how close they have to be in order to try to light up with Nancy's pacemaker. But I feel like get a bunch of them and just start flying drones all over the Tucson area. Drones, they're silent and they can go right up to someone's window. A lot of privacy issues there, right? Lots. Okay. And just. Just since I've been doing this podcast with you, remember I said I waited really late at night so that I could gather all the information and bring you a full report? Well, I thought I waited long enough, and it turns out I didn't because there's a new. There's new NBC reporting. And as I look at it real quickly. Hang on. It looks like. It looks like it's kind of knocking down some of the other reporting as well. Okay. Brand new from NBC. They're working late. They're working Late NBC News says, quote, investigators are not categorizing the Nancy Guthrie case as any particular type of crime at this stage, according to a federal law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation. So not in the investigation with knowledge of the investigation. The source said that there are, quote, a myriad of theories, end quote, but that authorities are not officially narrowing options to a specific one. Okay, so basically that tells me that NBC is kind of trying to knock down the Arizona family and the Associated Press reporting. But that also seems they may be knocking down their earlier report of the two sources, saying they're leaning away from these people. Now they're saying they're not narrowing it to anything. I feel like I'm in a tennis match. This is nuts. But like I said, it's about 300 reporters at any given time down there, and everybody's trying to work their sources. And everybody knows somebody who knows somebody who says they are close to the investigation as well. So sometimes it's a bit of a game of telephone, but. But not only that. I will tell you this. Things can change, and they can change in a day. Investigators reserve the right to change their minds. I have said that since day one in this reporting that I've been giving you. Investigators can change their minds. They can zero in on one person like I have reported, and then they can completely change course. They're not telling us if they're doing that. And that's why they say we haven't named or identified any suspects. Obviously, they haven't identified them to us doesn't mean that they haven't identified them inside their ranks, and it doesn't mean that they don't change their minds. So just keep an open mind on this one, everybody, huh? And then take a deep breath. And also patience. It's real virtue in this. Okay, next up. I don't know if you've had the same thought. It's just my musings. Where the hell have the bloodhounds been? And the cadaver dogs. And I hate even saying that, but I think we have to think that way. Where have all the dogs been? I have not seen evidence of that kind of work. I haven't seen bloodhounds. I've seen people searching. I haven't seen bloodhounds. I haven't seen those kinds of dogs. You know, and I'm just a little surprised by it. Again, I go back to the first few days of this entire saga where the sheriff said, we've called off the search permanently and lesser until, you know, something's warranted. I was Shocked then, shocked now. But we haven't seen that. We just haven't seen a lot of dogs out. It's not that we haven't seen any. We just haven't seen them on mass. Not at a level that I thought we would or we should. Cadaver dogs in particular at this point, I think that they should have those out there. But I just feel so disheartened at week. We're entering into week three now, and it's just really hard. And especially when you see Savannah and just how gut wrenching this is for her and her family. And I end with this. Why are we all so invested, right? Why? What is it about this story that has us so incredibly invested? The New York Times has talked about it being everybody's mom. I get that. But there's something else that it occurred to me today, and I talked about the everybody's mom in the episode last night. If you go back to it, how we just all feel a kinship to this 84 year old vulnerable woman who does this? Who took her? Who took her? But it's the who does this? That's what I'm really drilling in on today. This is the question, honest to God, who does this? This is the question that connects us all on a story that we can't shake as a nation, right? Even as a global community. Because if you're watching this from overseas, thank you, but I get it. We're all humans, right? And we just can't understand how someone can be so far outside the flock, right? Here's us. We're here. We're in this group. This is us. And then here are the motherfuckers that do shit like this. The Brian Kohbergers of the world that do stuff like this, right? The Jeffrey Dahmers of the world, the Gacy's. All of these people are so far out outside the flock. And when someone does this, the question that binds us all and makes a story like this, you know, capture our attention to the point where we're obsessed with it is that simple phrase, who does this? We said it in Idaho, right? We said it when we just couldn't believe that somebody would do this to four innocent kids. Who does this? It's the same principle that's connecting us now to the Nancy Guthrie story. Yes, Savannah Guthrie is famous, I know. Yes, Mrs. Guthrie is 84 and vulnerable, and we're all devastated. But it isn't as though this doesn't happen to a lot of people. And I've heard a lot of your comments as well, why so much attention to this particular woman when there's so many people who are victims of crime? I get it. It's just sometimes there's a mystery that nobody can get their heads around. They just can't get their heads around it. And this is one of those who does this. And can we as a community solve it and bring justice to Savannah and her family? Anyway, that's how I feel. And I've done a lot of this, right? I've done so many of these stories. And we all wonder, wow, what is it about this story that has us all, you know, coming together as one? And I really do believe that's the binding principle for many of them. We are the ones inside the flock. And by the way, I'm very glad that you're in my flock. Thank you so much, everybody. Thank you for being a member. Thank you for being a subscriber. If you didn't subscribe, please do that. And thank you for listening and watching. And remember, if there's one thing you take away from this podcast, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.

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