Utah Doomsday Mom Abducts 4 Children, Triggers International Manhunt | Elleshia Seymour Update

Summary

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Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield

Episode: Utah Doomsday Mom Abducts 4 Children, Triggers International Manhunt | Elleshia Seymour Update
Date: January 22, 2026
Host: Ashleigh Banfield
Guest: Nate Eaton (East Idaho News Director & Investigative Reporter)

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the alarming case of Alicia Ann Seymour—a Utah mother accused of abducting her four children and fleeing the country, driven by doomsday beliefs. Ashleigh Banfield unpacks the chilling details, drawing parallels with past tragic cases like Lori Vallow. Special guest Nate Eaton, who covered the Vallow case, joins to provide expert commentary on the psychological and legal complexities at play when apocalyptic beliefs escalate into criminal acts, particularly involving children.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Crime: Abduction Rooted in Apocalypse Fears

• Ashleigh Banfield establishes the case: Seymour took her four children out of Utah, not stemming from family disputes but alleged doomsday fears.
  • “There is a particular kind of fear when a crime isn’t just driven by rage or jealousy or money, but instead driven by beliefs. And none is more chilling than when children disappear under the shadow of a belief in the apocalypse.” — Ashleigh Banfield [01:41]
• Seymour has been charged with four counts of custodial interference and removing a child from the state.

Timeline:

• November 29: Seymour and children last seen; stops responding to calls.
• December 2: Police welfare check—house empty, alarming notebook found detailing plans to destroy documents and leave the country.
• December 10: Utah authorities issue an "endangered missing" advisory.

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2. Apocalyptic & Cult-like Thinking

• Seymour’s social media posts reveal extreme beliefs:
  • Consistent references to prophecies, catastrophic destruction, and divine wrath (full, dramatic transcript shared in episode at [09:40-12:21]).
  • Discusses "EMP" attacks, end times, and specific geographic targets—including claims Salt Lake City will be destroyed.
• Notable quote from Seymour (via TikTok):
  • “As a thief in the night, I will take my bride. But I will also bring devastation. I will bring my wrath. Disasters are underway... World War Three, martial law, the great purging of Christians or the saints...” — Alicia Seymour [09:40]

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3. Patterns with Previous High-Profile Cases

• Direct comparison with Lori Vallow:
  • Banfield unpacks Vallow’s case (multiple murders rooted in apocalyptic beliefs) and highlights the dangers when such delusions go unchallenged.
  • “Her name was Lori Valo, and what started as apocalyptic thinking wrapped in the language of faith and destiny ended with absolute calamity.” — Ashleigh Banfield [16:43]
• Nate Eaton's unique experience:
  • He draws the parallels, reminding listeners of his work tracing Vallow and Daybell even as they crossed states and went international.
  • “Doesn’t it harken back to the days, Ashley, of Lori Valo, of other parents?... That’s kind of the first people I thought of when I heard about this mother...” — Nate Eaton [18:52]

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4. Law Enforcement, International Barriers, and Custodial Issues

• International dimension complicates recovery:
  • Seymour left the family car at Salt Lake City Airport and took a one-way flight with stops in Amsterdam, final destination Croatia (not the France claimed to her children’s fathers) [Detailed by Banfield, 07:00–08:30].
  • Challenges highlighted: Interpol involvement, language barriers, and jurisdictional issues.
• Financial & logistical tracking obstacles:
  • Limited funds can only take fugitives so far; authorities are likely tracking financial activity.

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5. Parental Desperation and “Thought Dangers”

• Father’s perspective:
  • Kendall Seymour, father of 3 of the kids, had no prior indication of such beliefs, only learning of them via her social media after the fact.
  • “There were no signs of this, meaning the beliefs. Not when we were married, not during the divorce, not in the last five years.” — (Kendall Seymour, quoted by Ashleigh Banfield) [12:53]
• Nate Eaton insight:
  • Difficulty in reporting someone for “thought dangers” rather than tangible evidence of harm (drugs, violence, etc.).
  • “If I see a woman I know or one I don’t know who’s saying stuff, that sounds a little crazy to me… I mean, you can’t call the police on them.” — Nate Eaton [21:57]
• Banfield responds:
  • “It’s like Minority Report, right?... It is very, very tricky because when is it a religion and when is it a cult and when is it a dangerous cult? That’s the kind of red line...” — Ashleigh Banfield [22:57]

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6. Social Media and Spectacle

• The viral effect: Seymour had 70,000 followers on TikTok.
  • Discussion on the blurred line between genuine followers and those watching for spectacle.
  • “Are they believing what she’s saying or are they just following it because they think it’s a freak show?” — Nate Eaton [23:43]

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7. Travel Logistics & Passport Issues

• Technicalities of crossing borders with children:
  • Allegations Seymour forged passport documents for her children; process would normally require both (or primary) parents’ consent.
  • “So she forged the passports to get the kids out of the country. And had he known and this was one of the reasons he wanted to speak out, he would have said, no, why are you taking them overseas?” — Nate Eaton [31:09–32:21]
• Holiday travel and oversight: Busiest travel time may have facilitated lack of scrutiny.

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8. Discussion of Mental Illness, Competence, and Legal Responsibility

• Drawing a line between delusional beliefs and criminal culpability:
  • Lori Vallow’s case detailed: her delusions, legal strategy, inability to claim insanity due to evidence of concealment.
  • “You don’t get a pass if you’re just crazy. You have to actually not understand the right from wrong and not understand the nature and consequences of your actions.” — Ashleigh Banfield [37:08]
  • “She knew enough to run. She knew right from wrong. And that’s what sinks all of them, right.” — Banfield [38:11]
  • Explanation of EMPs (Electro-Magnetic Pulses), a frequent theme in Seymour’s beliefs [41:19–42:41].

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s very hard to be inconspicuous when you’re toting four kids around... it’s not easy to haul those kinds of kids around. There’s got to be some kind of financial trail.”
  • Ashleigh Banfield [24:17]
• “You can be competent, but insane. So competence is simple. It’s just two things. Do you understand the charges? Can you help your lawyer?... But insanity is the right from wrong. Right. That’s a whole other argument.”
  • Ashleigh Banfield [38:55]
• “If she thinks they’re closing in or they’re getting close to her and she’s been instructed by God or someone else to do whatever it takes, you don’t know what you’re going to be. And I don’t want to say she’s not rational, but maybe she’s not rational at the moment.”
  • Nate Eaton [34:42]
• “People overseas do notice American stories that are big... Someone in Thailand watched [America’s Most Wanted] and then recognized him.”
  • Ashley Banfield [26:36]

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Important Timestamps (MM:SS)

• 01:41 – Ashleigh Banfield introduces the case and context
• 07:00–08:30 – Flight details: Seymour flees to Croatia, not France
• 09:40–12:21 – Seymour’s doomsday prophecies via TikTok
• 12:53 – Discussion of how normal Seymour appeared despite extreme beliefs
• 16:43 – Introduction of Lori Vallow/Chad Daybell parallel
• 18:52 – Nate Eaton on patterns in doomsday parental abductions
• 21:57 – Challenges of reporting “thought dangers”
• 23:43 – Social media spectacle vs. genuine belief
• 31:09–32:21 – Passport forging and travel legalities
• 38:55 – Competence vs. insanity in legal frameworks
• 41:19–42:41 – Explanation of EMPs and their role in doomsday cult beliefs

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Tone and Style

Ashleigh Banfield’s trademark is a blend of measured journalistic rigor and candid, off-TV irreverence. The tone is urgent but not sensationalistic, with empathy for the families impacted, skepticism about unchecked religious or cult-like fervor, and a focus on the importance of both legal nuance and mental health considerations.

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Call to Action

• Social media amplification:
  • “Let’s just call to action to all of my followers, all of your followers, anybody who watches this, put out some social media with the hashtag Croatia and missing kids...” — Ashleigh Banfield [28:37]

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Conclusion

This episode serves as both a cautionary tale and a live case update, highlighting the interplay of apocalyptic belief systems, mental health, parental rights, international law, and the vulnerabilities of children in such situations. Banfield and Eaton urge listeners to spread awareness, stay vigilant, and recognize the complexities when fervor turns criminal—reminding us why, when it comes to the truth, they're "drop dead serious."

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Transcript

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[Ashley Banfield]

Hey everyone, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is drop dead serious. There is a particular kind of fear when a crime isn't just driven by rage or jealousy or money, but instead driven by beliefs. And none is more chilling than when children disappear under the shadow of a belief in the apocalypse. We've watched this play out before, and the name Lori Valo stands as a clear warning for how catastrophically wrong these beliefs can turn. Which brings us to Utah and a case that should serve as a cautionary warning to us all. A Utah mother is now accused of abducting her own four children and disappearing into the night. And it's not like we haven't heard of custodial abductions before. We have, but they usually stem from family fights over who gets the kids, who doesn't, Right? But this one Is different because police say that this mom was driven by a fear that the end times were coming. The apocalypse that was the driving force here. 35 year old Alicia Ann Seymour is charged with four counts of custodial interference and removing a child from the state after police say she didn't just leave the home or the city or even the state. They say Alicia bundled those kids up and fled the country. According to investigators, the plot went down on November 29th. So just after Thanksgiving. That's the last day anybody outside of her family saw or heard from Alicia. And police say she stopped answering phone calls from a co worker and from a friend on that very same day, November 29th. A couple days later on December 2nd, officers with the West Jordan Police Department in Utah went to Seymour's home to do you know the obvious, a welfare check. Now if that sounds familiar to you, quick tangent here, West Jordan police. It should sound familiar because well over a decade and a half ago, the West Jordan police were making the news because they were looking for a missing woman named Susan Powell. Susan was missing and her husband Josh was trotting two kids all across the country and really not seeming to care much about his missing wife. Oh, that and his alibi story, which was I don't know where she is. I went camping with the kids. But who goes camping when it's sub zero temperatures and a blizzard? Yeah, his story was he went winter camping with a toddler in diapers. Two little kids camping out in a tent in the freezing cold terrain. Yeah. So the West Jordan police had quite a case on their hands. They never were able to find Susan Powell. And sadly, all our suspicions about Josh, true. He was a maniacal, sick and twisted child killer and probably wife killer. He took those kids across the country to the state of Washington and he ended up killing them by slicing them with an axe and then blew up his house. So that was Josh Powell. That was the West Jordan police. So this is another big high profile case for them. So when they went to check on Alicia's home for the welfare check, they found that the front door was unlocked. House was empty, no kids in sight, nobody there. Everyone was gone. No sign of a struggle, no explanation for this. And neither of the kids fathers had any idea that Alicia was planning to leave or where she might have even thought to go. What investigators did find inside that home, however, raised some pretty big alarm bells. According to the court documents, the officers discovered a curious little notebook. And inside the notebook, and they say she had scrawled a couple of plans to get Rid of various documents and get rid of cell phones, but also get the passports and leave the country. Police also say that Alicia Seymour left a voicemail for one of the two fathers of her kids, claiming that she was already in France with the children. There you go. France. I'm in France with the kids. No other explanation, no other reason, no other address or contact for that father. By December 10th, the Utah Department of Public Safety issued an endangered missing advisory for these four kids. Now you should know these kids range in age from 3 years old to 11 years old. And in descending order, they are 11 year old Landon Seymour, 8 year old Levi Parker Seymour, 7 year old Hazel Ray Seymour, and then 3 year old Jacob Kurt Brady. So clearly the older three kids are from one dad and that little 3 year old, the newer child is from another dad. And while the investigators admit that they don't know exactly where that mom and her four kids are right now, they do tell us they know how this family took off. Alicia Seymour's vehicle was discovered abandoned at the airport. More specifically, the parking lot at Salt Lake City International Airport. So you and I all know how this works. Airports have surveillance video everywhere. And they turned that footage over to the cops and the investigators reviewed it all and they traced that mom all the way to the boarding gate for a one way international flight. And yes, she had bought seats for herself and all four of her children to fly on that very same day, November 29th. So interesting. Where'd the flight go? That'd be your number one question. It wasn't France, folks. And it wasn't a direct flight either. This was a flight that stopped first in Amsterdam and then continued on. No France in the plan. This mom and her kids flew all the way to Croatia. Croatia. Now pop out your map in case you don't know exactly where this former Yugoslavia state now country is. But it's east of Italy, it's on the Adriatic Sea. It is not that far from Greece, overland. Real easy to get there. So yeah, this is a long way away from France. And it is an even longer way away from the United States. Croatia. And in Croatia, they speak Serbo Croatian. Not easy, not an easy language to understand. There is English there, there's lots of tourism there. I've actually spent quite a bit of time in the former Yugoslav republics, Croatia, Montenegro. I moved all the way south down through Greece from there. So I know you can do it because I took the bus. Police say that Alicia Seymour shares the custody of those kids with both of their fathers, but that neither one of these Dads ever consented to any kind of trip, certainly not to an overseas trip out of the country. So one of the dads, his name is Kendall Seymour, and he's the father of the oldest three kids. And he said that he had absolutely no idea that his wife had even entertained these apocalyptic beliefs until just recently. He told local media that he later discovered troubling videos on her social media where she allegedly feared the end of times were coming and claimed Salt Lake City would be destroyed and that she was trying to get the children to safety.

[Alicia Seymour (via TikTok or recorded message)]

And these two countries, they are coming, and they are. They're, like, flanking. It's like me and like 50 other people, men, women and children. And they are shooting at us. They're yelling. There's chaos, There's. There's gunfire. And then also, like, this river comes through, and this river has acid in it. And so people are running. Then they get wiped away with, like, this acid water. Like they had poured acid into it. As a thief in the night, I will take my bride. But I will also bring devastation. I will bring my wrath. Disasters are underway. Power outages, financial loss, earthquakes and floods. I have asked you to move, and many of you did not. As the world has sleeper cells, so do I. I've called and begun to activate them. I have asked many to leave, but I have also asked many to stay. For those who chose to not listen. I am merciful, and my father demands justice, for I am your rock and foundation. Build your life unto me, and ye shall be spared. Desire to bring others unto me. Think about the end times and revelations and what is to come before I arrive. The great shaking. The power outages, famine, loss of freedom. The great awakening, the rise of a new generation. World War Three, martial law. The great purging of Christians or the saints. The great exodus. Pestilence, the prototype of the mark. Financial failure, the deceiving of even the elite and valiant Christians. Floods. California will sink into the great waters where she has hid many bodies. She will become a massive grave to those who stay. And behold, when he had opened the sixth seal, and lo, there was a great earthquake. And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. Was about an EMP going off. I heard the sound like the blast that it makes. And as soon as that happened, the car stopped driving, computer stopped working. All electronics were down. WI fi was down. Water was down. The airplanes fell from the sky. Helicopters fell from the sky. As I'm having this conversation, this person I'm talking to slowly starts to not.

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[Alicia Seymour (via TikTok or recorded message)]

Okay. And then has that. That stench. And then has like that. It was like something in their brain just flipped, okay. And they lunge, right? Because they're hungry. And now I'm like running and I go into the other rooms and I. In my dream, I want to say, it was not even five minutes and everybody else was already that thing.

[Ashley Banfield]

So that should give you a bit of a feel for where Alicia's head was at. I'm gonna take. I'm gonna say this. As I was watching that, all I could think was how normal she sounds until you hear what she's saying. Right? But that's gonna matter in a minute because I'm gonna speak to somebody who knows a lot about end times and how badly it can go for the children of those who believe in such. Right. Nate Eaton's coming up in just a minute. And he broke the story of Lori Valo Soup to nuts. He interviewed her. He's. He knows so much about folks who go down the rabbit hole of these kinds of cults or cult like beliefs. But it was scary, wasn't it? I don't know if you had the same feeling I did watching those tiktoks. She sounds like she's got her shit together. She doesn't sound like she's a raving lunatic until you hear the words. So I could see how she could get around and not raise any eyebrows around people, right? I could see how friends or fellow churchgoers or co workers or neighbors might not think that this girl was in trouble and off her rocker and that these kids are in danger. Not unless you really listen to the words, right, the words that she says. So the father also of the older three kids said, and I'll quote him, there were no signs of this, meaning the beliefs. Not when we were married, not during the divorce, not in the last five years. Now, don't forget, she has a three year old. So she clearly had a relationship with someone else in the last five years. And it doesn't sound like she remarried because her, you know, her name is still Seymour. She hasn't given up her married name from her first husband. But that's troubling that the father of these three kids had absolutely no indication that anything was going sideways. And now the case has escalated far beyond the borders of Utah, right? Federal Bureau of Investigation. The FBI is working alongside the West Jordan police to try to find these kids and get these kids home and get these kids to their dads, right? Get these kids to safety. Because this woman first of all, she's breaking a bunch of laws. So there. That's all we need to I don't care what you think about relationships between moms and kids and all the rest, she's breaking the law.

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[Ashley Banfield]

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[Ashley Banfield]

To Geico, you can't take kids away from their custodial parents. You can't just pack up and leave. You can't disappear like that. It's not up to you. Yeah, there's two sides to children. If this story sends a chill up your spine, you're not alone. Because we've all been there before, right? Another mother, another belief that the world was ending. Another insistence that she was just protecting her children from what she believed was coming next. Her name was Lori Valo, and what started as apocalyptic thinking wrapped in the language of faith and destiny ended with absolute calamity. And when I say that, I have a list. Lori murdering her fourth husband, Charles Valo. Lori murdering her two youngest children, Ty Lee Ryan and J.J. valo. They were, you know, tragically found buried in the backyard of her fifth husband, Chad Daybell and Lori. And along with Chad, murdering Tammy Daybell, Chad's first wife, on whom he was cheating with Lori. So that was a very convenient loss of life, wasn't it? Chad and Laurie. So this is why I wanted to check in with somebody who has seen this exact pattern, has seen the warning signs before, up close and personal and in real time. When Lori Valo's children vanished, long before the world understood what was unfolding, this person tracked the case across state lines and eventually all the way to Hawaii, where Lori Valo was hiding while her children were still, quote, unquote, missing, but really dead and decomposing in her new husband's backyard. That reporter was Nate Eaton, and that's exactly who I called to talk about this case. Nate is the East Idaho news director and an investigative reporter. And trust me, you're going to want to hear our conversation. He has some insight and he's following this story as I fully expected he was going to be. All right, here is my conversation with Nate Eaton about this very disturbing and evolving case. Nate, this is such a disturbing pattern that we're seeing, and sadly not the first time we've seen this pattern.

[Nate Eaton]

Yeah. Doesn't it harken back to the days, Ashley, of Lori Valo of other parents? I covered another story a few years ago about a mother in Arizona that took her son and fled and they were found in Alaska. The Thibodeaux story. And that Lori Valo and Chad Daybell. That's kind of the first people I thought of when I heard about this mother who took off with her kids, four of them, and boarded a flight and has not been seen from since. And not just a flight, you know, to the other state or across the country, but over into international territory. And so now you have these fathers who are here in America wondering where their kids are and if they're okay and hopefully if they're alive.

[Ashley Banfield]

So terrifying, because once you leave the jurisdiction, it becomes so much more difficult internationally to get your kids back and to find them. And you go to Inter, you know, you involve Interpol and local authorities in other countries, other languages. It's all just very, very complicated and so much more difficult. Do you have any idea where the investigation stands at this point, what they've been able to find, other than just the obvious? They're not here, and there's some telltale things left behind in the home Right.

[Nate Eaton]

I think that at least according to the father, Kendall, the one who I interviewed recently, they believe that they're somewhere in Croatia or that area. That's the last contact they've had with them. And that the police, from what he says, the investigators are able to track where they're at or at least have some sort of clue as to where they're going. They're obviously not announcing it, because if they do announce where they're at, you could, you know, the mom could find out, Alicia could find out and go somewhere else.

[Ashley Banfield]

Hey, she's socially like. She's savvy with social media, too, so she could be following all of this.

[Nate Eaton]

Very savvy. And now she's kind of, I don't want to say has a bigger following, but more people are aware of her. I know that I did say to Kendall, the dad, I said, are you going to go over there? Are you going to go to Europe? Because as a parent, you'd think I'd want to go right where they are. But he said, I don't know what good that's going to do if I fly to Ireland or Croatia or any of these countries where they could be. What am I going to do? Drive around?

[Ashley Banfield]

I mean, I'm not an investigator. Yeah, right.

[Nate Eaton]

But I know his goal, his hope is that once they are found, because she is breaking the law right now, he has full custody of his kids. She is on the run, breaking the law. Once they are found, then he goes over immediately because he's worried his kids are going to be scared if the mom's in custody and they're in a foreign country and they don't know the language. He wants to be there for him. So that's kind of when he's waiting and hoping that he can go over here, over there, which hopefully is soon and brainwashed.

[Ashley Banfield]

You know, these kids, you can only imagine what she's telling them as they're on the run, doing all these weird things in a weird country with different languages. And, you know, you think about how, as a parent, I would be clawing my way as close to the action as I could be. But at the same time, when you have somebody who's this volatile and maybe disturbed, you don't know what they might do when you close in. And so it is such a delicate matter.

[Nate Eaton]

It is. We had another case that just came to mind when you were saying that of a woman who was so convinced that she was one of the chosen, and she took her little son and took off with a pastor and she actually spoke to me on the phone a few years ago when she was in hiding and adamantly told me up and down, no God has told me to do this. I don't care who you are. I don't care what the authorities say. My courts are not of this world, they are of another world. They did fortunately find her, but she was telling off the judge. She refused to cooperate in court. She represented herself. And the question I have, Ashley, and maybe you have some insight, I know you do. When you see these videos on your TikTok feed or Facebook and you see people saying these sort of things, what do you do? Can you do anything? I mean, if I see a woman I know or one I don't know who's saying stuff, that sounds a little crazy to me. I mean, you can't call the police on them.

[Ashley Banfield]

No, it's like Minority Report, right? It's like Minority Report. You can only do so much, especially when kids are involved. You know, a father who senses things, who suspects things, who, who sees red flags can appeal to the court about dangers. But it's very difficult when they're thought dangers, you know, like finding drugs in your ex wife's or your ex husband's house, that's a no brainer. The children are in danger, you know, they're exposed. But thought dangers are different. And it is very, very tricky because when is it a religion and when is it a cult and when is it a dangerous cult? That's the kind of red line that you try to figure out. And in family court, I don't think they're really able to pinpoint that as perfectly as we'd like them to.

[Nate Eaton]

Yeah, that's, that's, that's the challenging part. And, and you hear about these cases seems to be more and more as of the past few years, maybe it's not, I don't know. But, but you hear about them and then you wonder, well, she's got, you know, 70,000 followers on TikTok. Are they believing what she's saying or are they just following it because they think it's a freak show or because they don't know what she's going to say or do?

[Ashley Banfield]

Spectacle.

[Nate Eaton]

But ultimately, as you mentioned, you've got four kids now that are with a mother who has these very strong beliefs. What is she willing to do for her beliefs, for what she truly believes?

[Ashley Banfield]

The other thing I was thinking, Nate, is that it's very hard to be inconspicuous when you're toting four kids around. And you know they're not particularly little either. Like, one of them is, I think, 11, 8, 7, and 3. So it's not easy to haul those kinds of kids around. And listen, everybody has to pay for wherever they're sleeping and wherever they're eating. And so there's gotta be some kind of financial trail. You are not allowed to travel over most borders with more than $10,000. I mean, that's the US law, right? Anything over 10,000, you're suddenly breaking the law. There's only so much cash that you can pack into your fanny pack to be often doing this kind of an odyssey. So I can only imagine there must be some way for them to financially trace her.

[Nate Eaton]

You would think we're going on two months. I mean, this was end of November that they took off. And they clearly know that they boarded those planes with the surveillance video that's out there and with the fact that they were one way tickets. So how much money will carry you over two months? And where are they staying? Are there people in these countries that are housing the children while mom goes out?

[Ashley Banfield]

Well, can I tell you something weird? This is a weird thing about me. I walked around the world for a whole year with a backpack, and I had to do it on less than $10 a day. And $10 was an extravagant day. And I stayed in a lot of places that were $2.50 a night. Couple of park benches too. And so it is possible to be a traveler instead of a tourist in a lot of these places. Croatia was one of the places where I was all through former Yugoslavia, all down into Albania and Greece, et cetera. And there are a lot of places where you can stay under the radar. And I can also say from experience that most of those people are not following the news. It's just not their vibe at that point. They're there for the global experience, the travelers experience, and all the rest. I can just say this. When I was doing that, I never saw a mom with a bunch of kids in those same backpacker places.

[Nate Eaton]

Right. They would stick out, then you would notice them. No, but would you do anything, though? That's the thing. If a mom's like, yeah, we're touring around, you're not gonna. You're not gonna pull up your phone and be like, I think this is wanted woman from America.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah. I think what you'd hope is that the authorities in the US are working again really closely with Interpol who are putting out APBs on a woman who has stolen four children. And they are in danger. You would think that they would do that. It's just, how many people will she come across in these obscure kinds of places where she's finding refuge? Who may have said, I saw that on my feed, because one thing that was different about when I was traveling is we didn't have phones with our feeds on them. You had to watch the news, and people just weren't doing that in the. In the. You know, in the circles that I was traveling. You know, we were backpackers. That's different now. So hopefully there will be those. I can tell you this. James Sullivan murdered his wife and in Atlanta and then took off to Thailand. This is back in the 90s. And you know how he was caught? Well, he was first of all tried in absentia. But you know how he was actually caught and brought to justice? America's most wanted. Someone in Thailand watched it and then recognized him. So it does happen. People overseas do notice American stories that are big. It's just hopefully they got some kind of penetration into the. Into the press there, or at least onto the feeds where these people might be watching.

[Nate Eaton]

Well, who knows, Ashley? Who's gonna hear this? Who's gonna see this? I did an interview with the father a few weeks ago, and somebody saw it on our YouTube channel, the East Idaho News YouTube channel. Someone in Europe saw it, emailed me, and said, I'm an attorney in Switzerland. How can I help? And I was able to connect him with the father. And I don't know what ended up coming of that, if anything, but there are people who want to do good. I know that if I were to find out that here in my state of Idaho that there was a woman from Europe who came over here with her four kids, my interest is going to be peaked. And I think that a lot of us are. We want the best for them. We want. Hopefully these kids are okay, and hopefully the mom can get the help that she needs as well. But you've got these families over here in the states that kind of don't know what to do other than come on the news and plea for help, plea for assistance from people that might.

[Ashley Banfield]

Know something, you know? Well, let's just call to action to all of my followers, all of your followers, anybody who watches this, put out some social media with the hashtag Croatia and missing kids and that kind of thing, and hopefully that will juice a little bit more viewership, a little bit more visibility in this story in those parts of the world. But. But there you go. I mean, she landed in Croatia. I overlanded everywhere. I ended up in Greece, you know, I think it was 28 hours or something over in the back of a bus during a war. So you can get around pretty quickly. I traveled deck class on the ferries in Greece. Totally. I mean, unknown to anybody. I'm sleeping on the deck in a sleeping bag. There's all sorts of ways that you can get around easily in that part of the world. But again, eventually, there are a lot of tourists in Croatia, too. There's a lot of tourists in Montenegro. There are a lot of tourists south in Greece. So hopefully there'll be somebody who sees again a mom with three kids in tow. And one of them is that young, three years old. It's very conspicuous, right?

[Nate Eaton]

Yeah, they will stick out. Remember too, that there's the two different fathers, so there's the Kendall we've talked with, and then there's the other dad who both of these fathers are here in the States wondering what's going on, what's concerning too, at least what stuck out to me is the type of things that she wrote and said before she left. I mean, this was something that was thought out. This was something she has no plans to return to a man.

[Ashley Banfield]

Talk to me more about that.

[Nate Eaton]

Well, it was one of those things where she not only posted on the TikTok videos, you know, the things about end of days, end of the world, things like that. Some of them are, you need to stockpile things. Basically, Jesus is coming and the world's going to end. But in the apartment or in her home, they were able to find some writings that she left that were concerning about things being the end. Let me just pull them up here because I.

[Ashley Banfield]

Because I'll tell you what, I listened to that TikTok and I kept hearing over and over a couple of themes. And as soon as you've pulled that up, we'll dig into this a little later. But the themes being flat Earth. I opened my flat Earth map and we need to prep. We need to stock up, stock up. I can't count how many times she said, stock up, stock up, stock up. Food that you don't have to cook, canned things. I mean, she sounded as though she'd been very well schooled in the prep culture and in the flat earth culture. And then of course, as you recognize right off the bat, this one is glaring. The apocalyptic culture.

[Nate Eaton]

Right, Right. Yeah, the apocalyptic culture. She left a note dictating delusional messages from God that promised she'd be in Italy by Christmas. A to do list was left behind. She said that paperwork needed to be shredded Destroy identifying photos, throw away the phone, purchase prepaid phones. And then one of the alarming things she forged, apparently, allegedly, she forged the kid's passport, which stuck out to me. I've got three kids, I got a notice that their passports expire, this coming at the end of the year. And they said, in order for you to renew them because they're minors, we have to go in, my wife and I together with the children. I can't just be me by myself. I did ask Kendall about that, the father. He said, well, she could have had a notary. She could have had it notarized even though it wasn't really him. I mean, there might be ways around it. So she forged the passports to get the kids out of the country. And had he known and this was one of the reasons he wanted to speak out, he would have said, no, why are you taking them overseas? So to other parents that might be worried about their exes or their spouses doing these things, his word was, please pay attention, because you never know what they might be doing.

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[Ashley Banfield]

I mean, that's such great advice and also very introspective. I also have two kids and I split from their dad, oh, gosh, almost two decades ago. But because I'm Canadian, I would go back and forth to Canada all the time in the summer with the little monkeys. And I remember the first time, and the customs agent said, where's the note from the dad? And I said, what are you talking about? And they said, where's the note from the dad? This was when we weren't even split. We were still married, and there were no problems. And I said, but he's coming in two weeks. I'm going before. And it was a big issue. So every single time I crossed the border, I had to have a notarized, you know, letter from, from the, the kid's dad. And I'm shocked that the airlines aren't more prescient about this because they insist that they see your travel documents because it's on them to, to return you. If the customs and border agents in the arriving country reject you, it's on the airline to bring you back. They're responsible. So I'm shocked that they got through the airline and that they got through whatever agency. Maybe there was research. Maybe Croatia is known to be a little more lax when it comes to traveling with children unaccompanied with both parents.

[Nate Eaton]

Well, and also, Ashley, they left. It was Thanksgiving week, the busiest travel time of the. The year. And so. And I'm not blaming the airline people unless they did something wrong. We don't know. But, but, but they had thousands of passengers going through there.

[Ashley Banfield]

Good point.

[Nate Eaton]

It's in Salt Lake City. A lot of parents are traveling with just the kids, one parent alone. So it could have just been a thing done in haste. But the, the. I guess the good news is that they do have that surveillance footage showing they actually got on the plane, because sometimes there can be questions of did they take off, did they use their real tickets with their real names. We have seen the surveillance photos, and they have been able to pull the documents, as you mentioned earlier. This is one of those cases that I think the authorities want to be super careful on, because who knows what frame of mind the mother is in. Alicia Seymour. And if she thinks they're closing in or they're getting close to her and she's been instructed by God or someone else to do whatever it takes, you don't know what you're going to be. And I don't want to say she's not rational, but maybe she's not rational at the moment. And so you have to be sensitive with those type of things. And again, hopefully they know a lot more than what they're saying publicly.

[Ashley Banfield]

Well, you have good reason to say that. I mean, the biggest story that you've covered, I'm guessing, has been Lori Valo. And look what she did. Look what she did to those children based on these absolutely backwards beliefs. I mean, it can be all encompassing for someone who's mentally ill and then also has that, you know, dash of sinister.

[Nate Eaton]

We never saw one slice of Remorse from Lori Valo? Not one. It was God told me to do this. I will do whatever he commands. And her children were dead. One wrapped up in plastic and duct tape, the other burned and cut into pieces and buried. She didn't care. I mean, she just messaged me this week, Ashley, saying, have you prayed to find out if I really am one of God's chosen? And if I am, will you treat me differently and cover me differently on the news?

[Ashley Banfield]

Wow.

[Nate Eaton]

So, I mean, it's still. She's still there.

[Ashley Banfield]

She's still there.

[Nate Eaton]

She's still there. And maybe there's moments where it flashes in her mind. I don't know if this is the case. I don't understand mental illness, you know, and I'm not an expert at all.

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But.

[Nate Eaton]

If you have these type of delusions and you have these beliefs and you go to the point where Lori Valo and Chad dabell went, I don't know how you can rationalize with that or negotiate with that. And if not saying that Alicia Seymour is that extreme, but maybe she is, you have to wonder and you have to worry.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah. And I'll tell you what. I see differences, and I have a feeling you might, too, in the mental illnesses of Chad Daybell. Cause you don't murder two children and do what they did to these children without being mentally ill in some way. But I see Chad just wanting the woman and would do anything to get her right. And I'll kill the wife. And I get it. I kill the wife, kill the kids, and I get the hot wife. But Lori, I see her a little bit differently. Like, she really was hook, line, and sinker. That does not give her any legal pass. Because as we all know, and I know our viewers are so astute when it comes to, you know, true crime and the law. You don't get a pass if you're just crazy. You have to actually not understand the right from wrong and not understand the nature and consequences of your actions. And Lori Valo clearly hid and ran and covered up. So there goes that defensive insanity. So anybody who feels bad thinking, well, maybe Lori Valo was so sick and we should take pity on her, that's not the way the law works. You can be plenty.

[Nate Eaton]

She knew enough to run.

[Ashley Banfield]

She knew enough to run. She knew right from wrong. And that that's what sinks all of them, right. That's why. That's why the insanity defense is less than 1% in this country. Because most people do something to cover it up. Run or hide. And that immediately obliterates Your ability to claim that you knew right from wrong.

[Nate Eaton]

Well, Lori's case, her mental faculties, I guess you could say, was an issue. She was incompetent for 10 months and then later was incompetent for a few weeks. And multiple psychiatrists diagnosed her with religious delusions that she had these religious delusions. We didn't hear any about that with Chad, like you said, not one bit. His mental never came into mind.

[Ashley Banfield]

And, you know, the other thing is, it's always fascinating to me how people can dally and dance in and out of competence. It's a totally different animal than insanity. You can be competent, but insane. So competence is simple. It's just two things. Do you understand the charges? Can you help your lawyer? That's the only two things. So I could see how Lori could be so obstructionist and intransigent, where the lawyer says, I can't speak to this woman. She just will not listen. She doesn't hear me. I can't get through to her. There goes the competence. Right. So they can hold off on competence for a while, but insanity is the right from wrong. Right. That's a whole other argument. So it's always amazing to me how it's completely fine. You can get someone through those courtroom doors and deem them to be competent, but they are batshit crazy insane, and they can be literally deemed insane. Perfect example, Andrea Yates, she was deemed competent to be in that case, to be in that trial, but she was legally insane.

[Nate Eaton]

Right. And. And Laurie took it to the point in her Arizona trials, she represented herself.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah.

[Nate Eaton]

And we got to see who she was and how she acted.

[Ashley Banfield]

Very strategic.

[Nate Eaton]

Right, right. And she, again, because God told her to do it, and she wanted a speedy trial. And, you know, you say, yeah, there's insanity, there's incompetence. You could also argue sometimes there might be a bit of. I don't want to say brilliance, but smarts to it.

[Ashley Banfield]

Crazy like a fox. Yes. Crazy like a fox.

[Nate Eaton]

She knew enough not to waive her speedy trial, and because of that, they took death penalty off the table because her team was not ready for a death penalty trial. And because of that, the judge's hands were kind of tied, like, well, unless she waves, I have to take it off the table. And so in a way, she could see that as a win of. See, I was right, you know, not to go all.

[Ashley Banfield]

And they screwed up on a date, if I recall, too. They were one date. They were on that. And the day could have been on either side of the ledger, but the Judge chose to include the day in the inside part of the ledger, which meant they were too late.

[Nate Eaton]

Had to be. The evidence had to be filed by. And it was the next day or after five something. It was very close.

[Ashley Banfield]

So close.

[Nate Eaton]

Yeah.

[Ashley Banfield]

I do have one question for you that I didn't understand, and it's just because I'm not really up to speed on my doomsday, you know, etymology. But emps, you know, this woman kept talking about emps going off. They were blasting and making these loud sounds and causing WI fi and heat and everything to go, you know, and light and electricity. What is she talking about in her tiktoks?

[Nate Eaton]

I also did not know what this was, Ashley. And so I had to do a little bit of research. It's apparently electromagnetic pulses, okay? Geo. It's also known as gmds, which are geomagnetic disturbances. And basically it's a scenario where there's a catastrophic societal collapse caused by these pulses that take down the electrical grid and modern electronics. So the Internet goes down, electricity goes down. It's triggered by nuclear something or other or a solar flare, something in the atmosphere, something in the beyond us that causes catastrophic failures across the country or the Rapture. Right. She firmly believed that these EMPs were coming or will be here soon, and that the world will be crippled because modern technology, Internet power, does not work.

[Ashley Banfield]

So what I found particularly disturbing, not the least of which was the language that she was using and the doomsday prophecies and all the rest, and her call to action, to others, to get ready, get prepped, and let's get out of here, was how sober she seemed on her tiktoks. Doesn't look like the ravings of a mad woman. So I could see how she could prosecute her life quite simply by traveling place to place with these kids and coming off as completely normal.

[Nate Eaton]

Right. She does appear normal, and I don't know how to. It's not like you could listen and be like, she's a little crazy, but okay, maybe. Maybe she's into that, you know, stuff. Not like, oh, my gosh, stay away from her. She's dangerous.

[Ashley Banfield]

Call the police. She's got four kids and she's nuts. It doesn't look like that.

[Nate Eaton]

Right. And I think on one of the videos I saw, one of these. One of these things that she prophesied or believed was coming is that like 80 to 90% of the world would die if they didn't heed these. These warnings and these prophecies if they weren't Ready within like a year. And it could be a death of starvation or diseases or different things like that, because these EMPs would hit the world. And if you weren't prepared, if you weren't following the type of things that she was saying, you would be one of the millions who would die.

[Ashley Banfield]

I always wonder with the preppers, though, like, okay, what happens when the supplies run out then? What you can't prep for after prep?

[Nate Eaton]

Good question. Good question. Well, I guess it could be like Covid times where you run down to Sam's club and get as much toilet paper as you can and hide it in the basement.

[Ashley Banfield]

I ran through my whole supply.

[Nate Eaton]

I did too. We ran out very quickly, but I wasn't prepared, Ashley. When I went, they were out.

[Ashley Banfield]

That's right. I had a few of those episodes too, and I thought for next time. Well, listen, you've been super helpful and I have a million more questions too. So I'd love to have you back and talk about this case as they hopefully find some signs of her and get those children back to safety.

[Nate Eaton]

Yeah. Happy to have you. Happy to be here, I should say. And congrats on the podcast and all you've done.

[Ashley Banfield]

Oh, thank you, Nate. I appreciate it. And go Hoosiers. My kid's an Indiana kid.

[Nate Eaton]

Nice. Nice.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah, yeah, we'll see you soon.

[Nate Eaton]

Take care.

[Ashley Banfield]

Okay, I am on it, y'.

[Nate Eaton]

All.

[Ashley Banfield]

I am going to keep following this case and I'm going to knock on Nate Eaton's door again because he is very insightful and I only got to half my questions and I have so many more for him. So make sure you're subscribed. Two reasons I don't want you to miss any updates, because I'm moving fast like lightning, but also, it would be great. You're doing me a real solid if you subscribe and thank you if you've already done so. And as for today, thank you so much for listening and for watching. And remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.

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