Was Sheriff Lying or Clueless as Feds & Mystery SUVs Swarmed Nancy Guthrie’s House?

Summary

Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield

Episode: Was Sheriff Lying or Clueless as Feds & Mystery SUVs Swarmed Nancy Guthrie’s House?
Date: February 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

Ashleigh Banfield covers pivotal new developments in the four-week-old disappearance of Nancy Guthrie. The episode zeroes in on a dramatic uptick in law enforcement activity at Guthrie’s home—particularly the arrival of multiple unmarked vehicles and official-looking agents. Banfield interrogates the confusing public messaging from the Pima County Sheriff's Department, rumors of internal dysfunction, and the intersection of local and federal law enforcement on the case. Veteran California homicide prosecutor Matt Murphy joins for an incisive, unsparing breakdown of the investigative and prosecutorial missteps, providing expert insight and pointed criticism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dramatic Law Enforcement Activity at Nancy Guthrie’s Home

• Timestamps: 01:00–15:54
• Unmarked white pickups and SUVs (some with CSI-like shells) and a convoy of black SUVs swarmed the Guthrie property.
• Men in blue suits (resembling FBI or federal prosecutors) were seen entering the house and guest house, fueling speculation about their roles and jurisdiction.
• One black SUV, with tinted windows, drove into the garage, stayed about an hour, then exited quickly, prompting theories it ferried a family member or key official seeking privacy.

Quote:
"It was like a convoy. And in the middle was one that had darkened out windows... Several people got out of those SUVs wearing blue suits with white shirts. They looked like FBI agents, but nobody knew if they were or if they weren't."
— Ashleigh Banfield, [04:00]

2. Lack of Clarity and “Amateur Hour” Messaging from Authorities

• Despite visible law enforcement activity, the Pima County Sheriff’s Office told reporters “no activity” was occurring.
• The Sheriff’s communications are called out repeatedly as inconsistent, confusing, and detrimental to public trust.
• Banfield and guests point out that misstatements are undermining confidence and might hurt any future prosecution.

Quote:
"Just another, you know, messy kind of messaging from the Sheriff's department when there's clearly activity... we just don’t go a day without some total botched messaging from the sheriff's department.”
— Ashleigh Banfield, [14:30]

Quote:
"This is a clown show in Pima County. The DA should have been there from day one. If these are the first prosecutors that have been to that scene, that’s shameful."
— Matt Murphy, [21:13]

3. Inter-Agency Dynamics: Federal Involvement and Jurisdiction

• Timestamps: 15:54–38:32
• Confirmation that both FBI agents and federal/state prosecutors were present, typical of “all hands on deck” situations.
• Matt Murphy explains that federal involvement can boost resources and investigatory power, but criticizes the lack of experienced local prosecutors on the case initially.

Quote:
"The FBI is the best in the world at tracking down missing people. They also have investigative tools... Quantico is kind of the gold standard."
— Matt Murphy, [16:53]

Quote:
"I hope, Ashleigh, that these were federal prosecutors that are coming in, that they have a federal theory on how the feds can assert jurisdiction. Because this has been, in my opinion here...a clown show in Pima County."
— Matt Murphy, [21:13]

4. Crime Scene & Evidence Confusion

• Blood droplet patterns found inside and outside the home are mentioned as key forensic details.
• Conflicting explanations about evidence handling, e.g., whether gloves found down the road were significant or just debris.
• Discussion about retaining family vehicles under investigation, despite public statements of “clearing” family members as suspects.

Quote:
"That's kind of weird. I mean, full throated clearing, clearing, clearing. But you towed a car under a warrant and told the reporters it was under processing, and you're not returning it, and you're saying it's still under investigation."
— Ashleigh Banfield, [13:08]

5. Political and Departmental Strife

• A former sheriff candidate, Heather Lapin, unleashes scathing criticism of Sheriff Nanos’s leadership.
• Allegations include intimidation, sidelining detectives, and “bungling” the Guthrie case.
• Internal politics are suggested as partly responsible for the perceived investigative chaos.

Quote:
"He is a tyrant... He's like a mafioso. That’s what he's like."
— Heather Lapin, quoted by Ashleigh Banfield, [13:44]

6. Community Impact and Media Restrictions

• Increasing restrictions for media covering the story (no parking, new street rules) frustrate reporters but are, paradoxically, appreciated by neighbors who believe the press presence is keeping the case alive.
• Banfield highlights the symbiosis between relentless media attention and public tip generation.

Quote:
"Many of the people who live in that community have said to the reporters...we're appreciative. We like the fact that you're doing this work because it keeps the focus on this case."
— Ashleigh Banfield, [09:46]

7. Broader Reflections on Law Enforcement Transparency

• Murphy and Banfield cite prior celebrated cases (e.g., Idaho Four) as cautionary tales about misleading public statements.
• Both favor candor or silence over misinformation, underscoring how public messaging shapes prosecution.

Quote:
"I don't know what they're doing. And the person who can put the brakes on that is the prosecutor who's going to be responsible for that...Amateur hour in Pima County."
— Matt Murphy, [22:29]

8. Forensics 101: Gloves at Scenes and DNA Handling

• Wearing gloves and donning protective gear when entering active scenes is standard to avoid contamination.
• Swarms of law enforcement on property days into the investigation could reflect belated but necessary prosecutorial review.

Quote:
"Yes. Okay. Every time. [...] You also put little paper booties over your shoes to ensure that, number one, you're not tracking anything from the outside into a crime scene."
— Matt Murphy, [60:26]

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Notable Quotes & Exchanges

• On the Pima County Sheriff’s Department’s public statements:
  “Every time they do that, that's an unforced error. And every day it seems like we got something else. It is… amateur hour.”
  — Matt Murphy, [57:50]

• On the influx of tips following a $1 million reward:
  “The FBI, it's now being reported, has received 1500 tips, Matt, since Savannah put out her messaging yesterday.”
  — Ashleigh Banfield, [51:55]
  "Maybe you got some help, so I want to interpret that the best way, but I think anybody with actual information that's willing to share it would have revealed it a lot earlier."
  — Matt Murphy, [52:21]

• On the broader implications for prosecution:
  “One day this case is going to be solved. And decisions have to be made today, in fact, starting four weeks ago, that don’t screw up the prosecution so that that person is held accountable.”
  — Matt Murphy, [55:28]

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Important Timestamps

• 01:00–03:00: Banfield sets the scene: influx of law enforcement vehicles, media confusion
• 04:00–10:00: Describes law enforcement and media activity, neighbor and reporter observations
• 13:00–15:00: Media interactions, political criticisms, confusion over vehicle evidence
• 15:54–38:00: Matt Murphy interview: forensics, agency roles, prosecutorial best practices, frustration with local leadership
• 46:00–50:00: Comparison to prior high-profile cases (Idaho Four), concerns about misleading statements
• 57:25–62:45: Law enforcement protocol, forensics handling, and the importance of investigative integrity
• 62:45–65:22: New statement from Pima County Attorney’s Office, hopes for behind-the-scenes prosecutorial involvement

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Memorable Moments

• Banfield’s relentless cataloguing of contradictory sheriff’s statements, using real-time news updates as proof points.
• Murphy’s unfiltered, insider explanation of why competent prosecution needs to be involved from the very first hours of a case.
• Specific mention that despite all the "clearing" statements, the family car remains held as evidence—a telling sign of internal confusion or possible misdirection.
• Community’s dual frustration and gratitude toward media presence—a rare positive perspective on journalists’ role in keeping cases alive.

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Episode Tone

Candid, urgent, and at times biting—Banfield mixes seasoned journalistic skepticism with frustration at official blunders. Murphy is both sarcastic and deeply pragmatic, punctuating his analysis with war stories from past cases but making clear that the stakes—justice for Guthrie and her family, community safety—are deadly serious.

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Expert Takeaways

• The influx of federal agents and prosecutors at week four signals serious concern about local investigative progress.
• Media and public scrutiny are both essential and, at times, hampered by political and procedural mishandling.
• Forensic evidence protocol and inter-agency cooperation are critical for a sustainable prosecution; missteps now could have dire outcomes for justice later.
• Sustained messaging confusion is not just a PR blunder—it may compromise both vigorous investigation and fair prosecution.

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Final Note

Banfield closes with a direct plea to listeners for tips and for sustained public attention, echoing the episode’s thesis: in high-stakes cases like this, truth is not just serious—it’s “drop dead serious.”

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If you have tips about Nancy Guthrie’s disappearance, call 1-800-CALL-FBI.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

It's where little moments are cherished. With Blue cash preferred. Get 6% cash back at US supermarkets and bring everyone together. I did say everyone. Learn [e-mail] Explore BCP terms and cash back cap. Apply with Blue Cash preferred. Hey everyone, I'm Ashlee Banfield and this is drop dead serious. It is February 25th, which means it's day 25 of the Nancy Guthrie investigation. I've got a lot of new developments, including one that just happened seconds before I was, you know, coming on to do this podcast first. Just a quick hit. Subscribe if you would. It's super, super helpful to me and I really appreciate when you do that. I also really appreciate the members who have joined. We've had some really great Q and A's. We're gonna have more. But thank you so much for your subscription. Thank you for your support. I do appreciate it. This was a hell of a day out in front of Nancy Guthrie's home. There was more activity than they have seen combined for a week. And I remind you, we are into week four. We are well into week four of this investigation and still no sign of Nancy. No word about a suspect that they know of. They've seen him, no word of a suspect car. So today when all of a sudden several unmarked white vehicles ran rolled up on Nancy's driveway. I described them as unmarked white pickup trucks, one of them actually with a hard shell type enclosure on the back, the kind that, you know, CSI investigators typically use. But again, no markings on it. Those. Those vehicles rolled up onto her driveway. At least one person, according to Brian Entin, got out and walked around the back of the house. Then several SUVs. Black SUVs, about a half hour later, rolled up on the property as well. It was like a convoy. It was described as a convoy of black SUVs. And in the middle was one that had darkened out windows. Several people got out of those SUVs wearing blue suits with white shirts. They looked like FBI agents, but nobody knew if they were or if they weren't. There were no insignia anywhere. Some people guessed, are they FBI? Are they attorneys? Turns out all lot of that's true. I'm going to tell you exactly who these people all ended up being because it took the whole day to get confirmation on who they were from multi different agencies. Okay, multiple different agencies. But in the middle of the convoy was one SUV with blacked out windows. And it turned into Nancy Guthrie's garage. Garage door went up, vehicle went in, garage door went down. It was in there for about an hour before garage door went back up. SUV came out and made a very quick exit. So a lot of people are guessing, well, who would that have been? Nobody could see for sure, and no one's confirming who it was for sure. It more than likely could have been a family member who needed the privacy. It could have been an authority who wanted privacy, didn't want the media seeing who was going into the home. I can tell you that there were multiple people in the home. Fox at one point got a picture of a guy who was standing at the window at Nancy Guthrie's front door, right where that doorbell cam had been affixed to the door frame. And he was sort of looking out the window. So multiple people were in the house. Brian Enten even saw at least one of these people. Again, no uniforms, but one of them at least had gloves, was wearing gloves, which, by the way, in a moment you will find out if that is normal for this kind of a visit. Because Matt Murphy, who is a homicide prosecutor from California, has a very unique perspective on this because in his jurisdiction, the prosecutors are on the crime scene often that the tape is still up, often just hours after the crime. I mean, they are there with the investigators, with the detectives. And so Matt is looking at this from a different perspective, through a different lens, because not every jurisdiction does that. Very, very critical of some of the things that have gone on, as many of us have been. But you're going to hear what his perspective is on this phalanx of you know, non uniformed but blue suited official looking folks that have shown up and some confirmations as well. And I will tell you what I can, what I can confirm. So Brian Enten confirmed from his sources that a Pima county homicide detective was at least among this group. Okay. This group also went into the, the guest house. They went in, in and out of the guest house on, on Nancy Guthrie's property as well as in the main house as well. I'll tell you this, Fox Digital confirmed fairly quickly during the day that federal prosecutors visited Nancy Guthrie's property Wednesday to assist the FBI with a quote, routine legal process. The United States Attorney's Office for the District of Arizona confirmed to Fox News Digital. So that was pretty, pretty key. What's also interesting is those black SUVs that arrived today, those SUVs actually came up driving the wrong way on a one way street and it's only a one way street. Since the Pima County Sheriff's Office decided to make it a one way street, there's just been a, you know, a flurry of reporters and activity all along that street for the last three and a half weeks. And so a couple of days ago they changed it to a one way. They forbade parking on one side of the street. And on this particular day those SUVs came up the wrong way on the now new one way street. Also late today there was like a big parking restriction put in place. That wouldn't be big news. But the way this happened kind of is because there are, you know, hundreds of reporters who have been lined up along Nancy Guthrie street doing this reporting, many of them with live shots, monitoring the activity in the neighborhood and at the house. And now they're not allowed to park anywhere along that street and a few other streets as well. Which basically means you can park your vehicle and hump all your gear and stand in the hot climate, but you cannot park. It just makes it more difficult for reporters to do their jobs. Basically, that's what this is. Many of the people who live in that community have said to the reporters, Brian Enten has said this, that he has been approached by several of the neighbors who say, look, it's a pain that you guys are all here, but we're appreciative. We like the fact that you're doing this work because it's, it keeps the focus on this case, it keeps the tips coming in, it keeps the story alive because when you guys leave, the story leaves, the headlines go away and the tips go away. So I can just tell you from what neighbors have said on the street. Sure. Why wouldn't they be pissed off that there are all these reporters there? But at the same time, they've said this to those reporters. And now the sheriff's making it harder for the reporters to even be there. He's been at the brunt of a lot of their reporting. Right. It has been. I mean, it's been a shit show. Let's be frank. I don't think this is a secret, you know, and he has been angry at. He even said to Brian Enten, I've got questions for you as Brian Enten walked in for his interview. So that's what happened outside the house today. And then Arizona Family, which I have explained a few times in past episodes. That is the brand name for a company that owns several television stations in the Phoenix area. And one of the reporters under the Arizona Family brand, her name is Brianna Whitney. She's been doing some really good reporting. She tweeted this out today, and this is a big deal, she said. Multiple people have asked me what the status is on Annie Guthrie's car after it was taken for processing in the case. Remember, I reported on Tuesday, after the Sunday that Mrs. Guthrie disappeared, that the sheriff's department, they had their focus, they were focusing on, on the family, and they towed Annie's car. And then a few days later, the sheriff confirmed that, saying the car was towed under a warrant and is being processed. And now Brianna Whitney is posting about what about that car that was towed, because, you know, you've cleared the family and, you know, spouses as well. So she's asking, you know, the sheriff's department, what about the car that you. That you took, that you towed? And this is what she writes. I asked the Pima County Sheriff's department today, and I just received this response, quote, all we can say at this time, Sheriff's department, the vehicle is still part of the investigation, end quote. Again, all we can say at this time, the vehicle is still part of the investigation from the Pima County Sheriff's Department. That's kind of weird. I mean, full throated clearing, clearing, clearing. But you towed a car under a warrant and told the reporters it was under processing, and you're not returning it, and you're saying it's still under investigation. So this is not a good day for the sheriff because the Hollywood Reporter came out with an interview of Heather Lapin, who was the Republican candidate who lost the Pima County Sheriff's seat to Chris nanos back in 2024. She says that he sidelined top homicide detectives who backed her in her race and is now, quote, bungling the Nancy Guthrie kidnapping case. And this is the quote that she gave the that outlet. This is Heather Lapin speaking, quote, he is a tyrant. He tries to be super charming like when he did his quote at the press conference. I'm not used to people hanging on my every word and trying to hold me accountable. And then Heather Lapin continues to say he tried to put his hands on his hips because he was trying to be cute. Nobody thinks you're cute. You're a 72 year old man. Nobody thinks you're cute. Again, this is Heather Lapin saying this to the Hollywood reporter about sheriff Nanos. She continues to say that she was the target of 13 internal affairs investigations in just six months. Each of them allegedly an effort for Nanos to discredit her as a political opponent. She says Nanos also attempted to, quote, intimidate her at campaign events. She says, quote, he sent his two female captains to my campaign events to try to intimidate me. He's like a mafioso. That's what he's like. End quote. So again, scathing words from her political opponent in the 2024 race. Also on top of that, Matt Finn from Fox news channel brought us this. The Pima county sheriff's office says it has no pressers planned and now it will be limiting its updates to media about the Guthrie case. These have come in the form of an email and they do provide us with new information. Matt Finn says. But here's the quote from the Pima county sheriff's department. The Pima county sheriff's department PIO team has been distributing updates to the media on an almost daily basis. At this time, we will limit further updates to instances when new information warrants release. Weirdly, there was a lot that went on at that house today, at Nancy Guthrie's house today. But the Pima county sheriff's department is not commenting, not giving us a release, not giving us information. And in fact, I mean, I can't believe this is true. But Matt Finn from Fox news reported early today when they were trying to figure out who was who among all these blue suits, he did say that the movement on the property includes FBI. And then he capped off the tweet today by saying the Pima county sheriff's department reports no activity. All I can say to that is no activity. There's a lot of activity. We are all looking at it happening live in front of us. So just another, you know, messy kind of messaging from the Sheriff's department when there's clearly activity. And one of them actually, according to Brian Enten, was one of the homicide detectives from the Pima County Sheriff. Right. So this is like, I can't. It's like we just don't go a day without some total botched messaging from the sheriff's department. Okay. Also, Matt Finn reports that the FBI says it's now received 1500 tips since Savannah's video yesterday offering the million dollar reward. And this neighbor, this is according to Michael Ruiz of Fox Digital, this neighbor of Nancy Guthrie's says that she saw a man who, quote, didn't fit in the community walking near Nancy Guthrie's home back in January. This is the quote. He didn't have your typical walking gear on, and he had his hat pulled really far over his eyes. The neighbor told Fox Digital she lives in the Catalina foothills now for about 30 years. Another longtime resident of the foothills area said that investigators came to her house a total of five times. And in particular, they asked for home security video from January 11th. We've talked a lot about January 11th, right, ever since the news broke, not from the sheriff, but from multiple media. Almost all the media outlets, the mainstream media and digital and my sources as well, said that the. The video and the photo images that show the man with the backpack and without the backpack at Nancy Guthrie's front door that was captured on doorbell camera are from different nights. Sheriff says, well, any mention of that is speculation. However, sources for almost everybody have confirmed it. So it is very interesting that the January 11th date gets a lot of traction. Five visits from the feds. This. This longtime resident of the Catalina foothills says maybe not the feds. She said investigators. It might have been locals and investigators, but said specifically they asked for January 11th video. As you all know, the sheriff expanded it to January 1st to February 1st. We're looking for your video. But this person says they specifically asked for January 11th. So that is just an interesting aspect to all of this. So I called Matt Murphy because today was just so bad, big and bold. And I wanted to know what it meant that all these folks in blue suits are walking around the perimeter of Nancy Guthrie's house on day 25. Here's my conversation with Matt. And remember, Matt is not only a homicide prosecutor, but he has decades in the world of solving crimes and prosecuting crimes. And he literally wrote the book. It's called the Book of Murder. I encourage you to get it. It is a fascinating read. But here's my conversation with Matt Murphy. Matt, what do you make of this flurry of activity, more activity than we've seen in a week at Nancy Guthrie's home. And we're now coming, you know, towards the end of week four.

[C]

Well, we're trying to read tea leaves at this point, right? We've got, you know, we're trying to interpret information. Like I saw the clips of those people walking into the house. Like, those look like prosecutors to me. I guess there's some. Some information that's come out, apparently been confirmed that the U.S. attorney's office did have prosecutors go to the place. Actually, for me, you know, when you prosecute homicides, if you do it long enough, you will inevitably have two experiences. One is you will work task forces with FBI field agents. And they are some of the best police officers I've ever had the honor of working cases with. And I've done those high profile, you know, sheriff in front of the camera cases, and I've done several of them. And the FBI is the best in the world at tracking down missing people. They also have investigative tools that are available to them. They can do a thing called an administrative drop warrant. As a state prosecutor, you have to get a search warrant now to get phone records, for example. The FBI can just literally get them in about two hours if you get a motivated enough agent. But it's a completely different process, a thousand times more efficient. Of course, you've got Quantico, which is where a lot of these DNA techniques are literally invented. Arguably, depending on who you talk to. Forensically, it's the best lab in the world. The UK has some really good forensic scientists over there. But Quantico is kind of the gold standard. They're not using Quantico. They're using a crime lab in Florida, which is a big head scratcher to me.

[B]

Have heard. It's great though. Have heard. They're amazing. The DNA International in Deerfield beach is solved.

[C]

I hope they are whole case. But I also just heard that there was some struggle over a DNA mixture. I think that was misreported because DNA mixtures happen all the time. I've prosecuted personally. I did a double homicide where we had triple genetic mixtures and everything. And there's nothing unusual about that.

[B]

So that, by the way, may have been the sheriff misspeaking and only say this. The lab in Florida is not talking. The sheriff is talking for everybody. And he said something like, they're struggling with the mixture. And it wasn't long before the reporting came out. I think it was 24 hours. And the reporting report came out no It's a partial sample, meaning they didn't get enough for a CODIS sample. That it. Maybe. Maybe it was part, maybe it was a mixture. Maybe that happened. But the issue was it was. Yeah.

[C]

Two different things in the forensic world, Ashley, that is night and day, apples and oranges. And you know when you say that the sheriff misspoke, I think we have to say the sheriff misspoke again. And I guarantee in that lab, if they, if they're a properly accredited lab, the director of that lab was probably pulling his hair out or her hair out when they heard that they weren't struggling with a mixture, because they deal with mixtures. In every sexual assault case, you have a mixture, even the purest ones. You're going to get the epithelial cells from your victim mixed with the sperm fraction DNA of your bad guy over and over and over again. If that is a lab that is even halfway professional. And I have no reason to doubt that they're anything but.

[B]

And we've heard great things.

[C]

They were losing. They were losing their minds because somebody was speaking for them who clearly doesn't understand the science.

[B]

Entirely possible. Let me ask you this about these people who've arrived today. Like, you're right, Fox Digital did report that they had a confirmation from the U.S. attorney's office in the District of. Of Arizona that federal prosecutors visited Nancy's property to assist the FBI with a, quote, routine legal process. Is that moving the case forward from where they are? Is it possible that. It's something that. I just learned the term today. A clean team. Now, I don't know if you've heard that before, but I had to look it up. And it means basically, fresh eyes. Fresh eyes coming in and starting over and looking at this, maybe with a new group.

[C]

That brings me to the second thing you deal with. If you do homicides long enough, you will, in addition to the feds being awesome on the street level, you will eventually butt heads with somebody in the U.S. attorney's office who might have an interest in your case. And I have fought wars and won them all against eager US Attorneys who wanted to come in and do some of the murders we were working on in Orange County. And you fight that fight. It's known as dual jurisdiction, where you have a state jurisdictional venue, I guess we could say, or the state jurisdiction or prosecuting case. And there might be a dual federal thing. Like, I had one big battle with the local guy and they were. They were fine, except for this one guy that I was butting heads with.

[B]

But that was like, by the way, like Luigi Mangione.

[C]

Right. Not dissimilar at all. But that was one where the murder happened on a federal military base within Orange County. So we both had jurisdiction. So look, under 99.9% of the cases, Ashley, I got to tell you, like, state prosecutors are almost always going to be the better option because they have a lot of experience in murder cases. Like almost every, every murder case is a state case. There are some cases that can be federal, but they're few and far between what US Attorneys or federal prosecutors are very good at. They're good at RICO stuff, going after organized crime and also white collar crime, which. Which is a huge bulk of what they do. In fact, a lot of people don't know this. They recruit FBI agents straight out of law school. I was recruited by the FBI out of law school. Almost did it. And so there. When it comes to street crime, which this would be considered, this is like you're in the gristle bloody murder stake. Prosecutors are almost always more experienced, better. Now, I hope, Ashley, that these were federal prosecutors that are coming in, that they have a federal theory on how the feds can assert jurisdiction. Because this has been, in my opinion here, and I want to be fair, I defend police officers now. I have a soft spot for cops. They have a very, very difficult job. I've stood on that stage before with 25 cameras in front of us watching my elected DA or our elected sheriff try to field questions on big cases. It's a really tough job. That said, in my opinion, just my opinion, this is a clown show in Pima County. The DA should have been there from day one. If these are the first prosecutors that have been to that scene, that's shameful. When you have a case like this, it's not just about figuring out the mystery. It's about holding the person who did it accountable. And what that means is you have to prepare the prosecution long before you even get a suspect. And also all these times where this guy's rolling out, he's having his SWAT team go out and put handcuffs on people. If that's true, and I don't, I have no inside knowledge other than what I've read. But that first the Uber eats guy, apparently they, they cuffed him, they detained him. Look, that's really heavy handed. It looks, maybe there's a good reason and I'm prepared to be wrong. Looks performative to me by the sheriff. I did. I was in the homicide unit for 17 years and I tried 133 jury trials, Ashley. I can't recall a single time that we needed a SWAT team to arrest a murder suspect. And I dealt with Russian mafia and gang members. It's like I don't know what they're doing. And the person who can put the brakes on that is the prosecutor who's going to be responsible for that. And that's a. That's, you know, you go in heavy handed like that, that's a good way to get your department sued, in my opinion. And it also just. It ultimately looks bad in front of a jury. You have to treat the case from day one like you're going to catch the guy and you've got to hold him accountable for the, for the Guthrie family. And you need to a prosecutor to be working hand in glove with the investigators and not even directing it, but just kind of a different set of eyes with different considerations. Somebody that has prosecuted murders before and can anticipate defense motions so the case doesn't get screwed up by overzealous detectives or cops that want to kick in doors. This is amateur hour in Pima County. The DA there is a woman named Laura Conover. And maybe I'm wrong, maybe they've been really active behind the scenes and we haven't seen her. But that if those were the first prosecutors that have been inside that house, the voters, in my opinion of Pima county need to. Need to clear. Clear out their law enforcement leadership and elect people that are more responsible. Because I've. All I've seen is a failure and by, in my opinion here, a failure of the sheriff and a failure of the law enforcement leadership of Pima county to bring justice to this family. And it's maddening to me. I had to stop watching this about a week ago because it was so frustrating.

[B]

Well, I don't think you're the only one. You know, we're tracking what's going on basically in the Twitterverse and online and that's where a huge conversation, you know, has been really going after this sheriff for the things that have. Have happened.

[C]

Can I add something there? I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but.

[B]

Yeah, no worries.

[C]

Do you mind? No, it's, you know, there. You have to anticipate that when you go to the media, when you ask for the public's help, you are going to get a deluge of people that you know well meaning people that want to help. But part of that also is you have to be prepared to answer legitimate questions from the media and you have to be prepared to get some Heat. Now, I always hated it, okay, when a talking head would come in and criticize my cops or criticize me about something that we were doing on a high profile case. So I get it. However, I was on your former colleague show, you know, our mutual friend Elizabeth Vargas, and she's a pro. And I'm in the green room. This is last week, and this is after the gloves were found down the road. Right? We talked about that a little bit on your show. So you're going to get DNA off those gloves. And one of the questions that she had, and she interviewed the sheriff, he stopped doing press conferences, but he started doing individual interviews.

[B]

Cherry picked.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, whatever. Good. But Elizabeth Vargas is a real journalist. She's a pro. And she asked the question, she's like, okay, so you got Those gloves or Mrs. Guthrie, Mrs. Guthrie's DNA, were they found on the gloves? And this is like three days after that story broke that they found the gloves. And not only did he appear not to know the answer to that question, he pushed back on her and said, you know, you guys in the media, and it's like, you guys in the media? What are you talking about, dude? You called the media. You know, it's like you have to expect questions like that. How can you not know the answer? And I have no problem at all, please understand, with a law enforcement professional going, act of investigation, I'm afraid I can't answer that question, or I don't want to say, but scratching your head going, oh, I don't, you know, I have to ask my people or something like that. I mean, it's just. It undermines the integrity of law enforcement and it certainly undermines the public confidence in law enforcement. And a lot of this stuff. If they catch this guy tonight, whoever he is, and. Or whoever they are, and this prosecution starts, I guarantee that the defense already has mistakes in their tool belt that they're going to be able to use against the prosecutors because of some of the things that we've been seeing. And look, another thing, in fairness, a lot of these cases take months, years sometimes. And I prosecuted cases from the 1970s, my Rodney Alcala case. So sometimes it takes a while. But nobody should be arguing with the FBI. There shouldn't be a feud between locals and feds that are there to help. So very long answer your question. I hope it's the feds. I hope they've got an angle and I hope they're taking everything over, because that's the only way, in my view, that this can be solved. And that is not a criticism. One bit of the fine working police officers working for Pima County Sheriff's Department. I've dealt with them before and I've dealt with Pima County. I did it on a very high profile case out of Newport beach. And they were top notch, absolutely amazing law enforcement.

[B]

That's what we're hearing, Matt. We're hearing that the guys on the ground are working their asses off and they are working day and night, you know, getting very little sleep there. And many of them are pissed off themselves. I mean, I think Brian Enten had a report two weeks ago saying he's talking to these guys and many of them don't know who's in charge, which was shocking as well.

[C]

It'd be filled by their leadership and that includes Loricon over the da.

[B]

So let's, let's also say, you know, and props to the, to the, to the good men and women who are working this case on the ground because they are working really hard. But one of the things that also Brian Enten reported was that he knew today, amongst the confirmation that these are federal prosecutors at Nancy's house today. Brian also knew that local Pima homicide was there, at least one member. So if that is the case, if the federal prosecutors are there assisting the FBI with a, quote, routine legal process and a Pima homicide investigator is there. And, and let me just be really clear. We don't know that Nancy Guthrie has been murdered. We don't know that yet. It. Everybody has their opinions and theories on what's happened and it is, you know, four weeks in at this point. But we don't know that to be fact. It's just that these investigations have to happen. So a local Pima homicide, Pima county homicide detective is there with the federal prosecutors and the FBI. Now you got three agencies. Tell me what that tells you.

[C]

Well, okay, it should be working that way. And let's not forget border patrol was, was there on that stage, I think the very first, very first day. So that's. Look, when you have a case like this, that's what you do. You go all hands on deck. You reach out. Hopefully the FBI will help you because they're again, the resources and their agents are fantastic. And you, you bring what's happening. There's almost two different tracks here. Ashley, having been in that room so many times, you've got your political class and you've got all of that stuff. Sheriff elected da. You've got all those people and on the ground you've got dedicated, hardworking professionals. Some of whom I guarantee have probably not slept more than four hours a night since this thing started. You got your rank and file, hard nosed gumshoe cops and they, I guarantee, are grateful for the FBI agents, they're grateful for the resources that are available to them. So you've got that and they have bonded now there should be a prosecutor in that room. And again, I want to be wrong. I want to be fair to Laura Conover, I want to be fair to the sheriff. But I've reached a point where personally I just, my heart breaks for this family. I've been, I've done a million of these and it's, this is not how you do it. And so I feel bad for those, for the hard working women and men in law enforcement and the CSI professionals as well.

[B]

What were they doing today? What do you think? Specifically they were inside and they were outside walking the perimeter in suits. What do you think was actually happening?

[C]

Well, I think if that's the first time federal prosecutors have seen it, remember we've got those blood drops outside. I have always believed that there's a very telling scene regarding the blood inside the home which we have not seen yet.

[B]

Well, Matt, I'll tell you what, I had a break earlier this week from a very well informed source connected to this investigation, law enforcement source who said the blood droplets outside the home, outside on Nancy's front entryway, on the tiles, it is the similar pattern inside the home, blood droplets, but not as it was described to me, not a footsteps through the blood, not a sign of a struggle, just those blood droplets inside the home as well. And I was not able to get from that source where exactly?

[C]

Well, remember going back to the very first day. And again, I have a hard time trusting anything that the sheriff has said personally. But he did say that first day. One of the things, I don't think he walked back because he keeps saying one thing and then he'll come back and walk it back later.

[B]

So there was some evidence inside the home that was concerning enough to get the homicide detectives out.

[C]

Right. And also they said she was abducted from her bed. Remember that?

[B]

And then he walked that back. And then Savannah yesterday released an Instagram that literally said the words in the dark of night taken from her bed. Those were Savannah's words. And she's a journalist and she knows her words. I don't know if she's speaking literally or figuratively, but that's now twice we've heard that.

[C]

And my heart just breaks for her and, and any family member that is suffering As a result of this thing, you know, it's, it's an. This is the most apoplectic thing a person can experience. It's. It's absolutely horrific. But. But no, the first thing that you want to look at if you're a prosecutor is you want. There's an entire forensic discipline known as blood spatter evidence. A lot of people mispronounce it, say, splatter with an L. It's spatter, S, P, A, T, T, E, R, where essentially you. You closely examine. And blood is a very viscous material, as we all know. We're all familiar with blood, but it's like you can tell directionally. You know, if somebody, A lot of times, if somebody was stabbed or beaten, you have a thing called cast off that can be on the ceiling. There are so many different aspects of that. The way the blood falls, you can get directions out of it. You can learn a lot of information just as, you know, trying to understand it. So if there's blood in her bed, that tells you a ton, right?

[B]

They haven't said that.

[C]

No, they haven't said that. I'm saying. And no, they haven't said it. I'm saying if they knew that she was taken from her bed and they keep repeating that, you know, that's very different than somebody knocking on the door and her going to answer it and getting snatched from her doorstep.

[B]

And very different, Matt, than say, her potentially hearing a noise and coming out of her bedroom and startling a burglar who was only there to steal. To that, we've also learned from the New York Times who interviewed a friend of Nancy's that she had recently started wearing powerful hearing aids, which means you take them out at night, which means it would be hard to maybe hear something going on in the home.

[C]

So to answer your question, what are they looking for? I think that they. Obviously that has not been cleaned up yet. Unless again, after the sheriff returned the property after less than 30 hours of CSI workup, which was another head spinner for me and everybody else. I guarantee that works. Has worked these cases before. But the. Unless they. They cleaned it up when they went in, that should be. They should. All of that stuff should be preserved. It should be something that a prosecutor want to look at because depending on what that looks like, that can tell you. I can tell you a whole bunch. Now, if it's just blood droplets in the hallway, even that can tell you a lot because. And look, my Kathy Torres case, I know you, you read my book, but that was one where, you know we had arterial bleeding on the, On a truck, on the inside of a trunk lid. We had two people that loaded her into the car. And that was hugely significant because that meant her heart was still beating. That meant the guy that came along later was not an accessory after the fact murder, but in fact was a principal to the murder because an arterial spurt meant her heart pumped that out, which meant she was alive. So you can get a tremendous amount of really good evidence from looking at the blood. And I don't know, I'm guessing that's what I would. That's the first thing I would ask to see if I. If I was the prosecutor. But of course, if I was the prosecutor or any of the prosecutors in Orange County, Louisiana. County or anywhere else that. That handles these things professionally. You'd have a prosecutor there that night before the blood is even coagulated. That's the way it should work. That way you've got another mind who is experienced and can anticipate, like I said, the. What is going to come at you from the defense. And I, the da, from what I've seen, may be working really hard behind the scenes, but she's been a ghost, at least publicly. And maybe that just means she's way more professional than the sheriff. I don't know. I'm not familiar with Arizona politics. I don't know who the good guys are, the bad guys. I have nothing to do with that. That is my objective opinion, based on what we've been seeing and that's been widely reported.

[B]

Which brings me to the next round of vehicles that arrived after the white. About a half hour after the white vehicles arrived, about several black SUVs. A convoy, it's been described as a convoy of black SUVs arrived. One of them that was in the middle had all the windows darkened, and it ended up pulling into the garage. The door of the garage came down and apparently whomever was in there was inside the house for about an hour before the garage door came back up and that vehicle sped out quickly. I have my theories on what that could be, possibly the family coming to the home. But if it is still a crime, at least if it's still a scene where they want to see where the crime happened, because it's not officially a crime scene anymore. Would the family have gone into the home if the blood were still on the floor?

[C]

There's 100 different reasons why that that might have been family. I mean, that was. They drove right into the garage. That was. There was a heavily tinted window. So it's clearly somebody that didn't want to be seen by the media. So I wouldn't at all be surprised. And that could also be family just wanting to get. Get belongings in the house that have nothing to do with the investigation, just wanted to recover them. And, you know, again, these people have huge hearts like those FBI agents. And I guarantee those homicide detectives and anything you can do that doesn't compromise the integrity of a crime scene, you want to do if it can alleviate just a little bit of the grief for the family. So that could be something personal that they just wanted to go in and get something they might want to look for. Or it could be they want to. They. They wanted to perhaps access to something. Maybe the. A combo to a safe wasn't working. There's a hundred different reasons why that could be a family member or maybe somebody else. That could be the. That could be the DA Herself finally showing up four weeks into this, which I hope not. That would be. And look, maybe she was there the first night. Nobody saw. I don't. I don't know. But, yeah, could be. Could be anything. And again, we're. We're. We're trying to read tea leaves because the information that's been provided has been schizophrenic, if I can use it. Use a term. Right. It's like we're told one thing one day, then another. The family, Family, you know, nobody's ruled out. The family's ruled out. You know, the family's not ruled out. We're keeping the car. It's.

[B]

Oh, I have news on that.

[C]

I'm getting whiplash listening.

[B]

I have news on that. So obviously, my source early on said that the focus right from the jump on day one was a brother in law. And the sheriff tore into me and didn't say my name, but said, absolutely not, but we're not ruling out family. And then the sheriff came out and said, they're all cleared, including spouses. And now Arizona Family, which is, of course, that consortium that owns two TV stations in Northern Arizona. Brianna Whitney reports this. This is her tweet. Multiple people have asked me what the status is on Annie Guthrie's car after it was taken for processing in the case. And then she says, I asked the Pima County Sheriff's Department today, and I just received this response, quote, all we can say at this time, comma, the vehicle is still part of the investigation, but if they've cleared the family members and their spouses, why would they keep the vehicle for part of the investigation?

[C]

Okay, so, number one, all right, I don't even know where to start with this. One of the things that you learn is that you have to keep an open mind at all times, okay? And when you have a. You have a mystery like this, when you. You're starting. You start with your list of suspects with the population of the earth, okay? And I cannot tell you, Ashley, how many times I thought a case was. Was one thing. And then there is a radical change, like a piece of evidence is discovered that turns the whole thing upside down. And my detectives, like, on my Daniel Wozniak case, you remember, like, the killer murdered a young man, war hero, because he wanted to get out of $65,000 in his bank account, and he figured out what his PIN was, so he murders him, takes his ATM card, cuts off his head, but wants a reason why he can't be found. So he decides part of his plan, he's going to lure another mutual friend to his murder victim's apartment. And he killed him. That's the one on the military base. Kills him someplace else. So he lures this poor young woman named Julie Kibuishi, totally innocent, murders her, and stages the entire crime scene to make it look like Sam Hur, his first victim, killed her. Utterly diabolical. And I mean, this is embarrassing to admit, but I went into that scene and I. I bought it. I'm like, okay, well, clearly this is some sort of lovers quarrel between the two of them. And his. The parents were insistent that they weren't dating. But what. What do parents know, right? Like, and my detectives, to their credit, were saying, no, that's not. This is weird. That's not it. And. And they were right. And all of a sudden, we learned that this was one of the first witnesses like it was. Who would ever believe that somebody would come up with a scheme that diabolical? So you.

[B]

Oh, Brendan Banfield did. Brendan Banfield and his nanny. They did, yeah.

[C]

So, you know, when you rule it out, you rule people out when you have a suspect and you figure out the case. And by the way, the sheriff doesn't get to rule people out. He doesn't have charging authority. That is a prosecutorial agency that makes that call, not the sheriff. That's a TV thing. The idea that the cops are ruling somebody out, that means nothing because they don't have the ability to file charges. They can. They can request charges from the da. They can book people. That's very different than the formal criminal charging process in the United States. So, you know, we. And I've had case after case where I think it's one thing. And I had a case with a guy who we believed that it was. He was very wealthy, lived in Newport coast, murdered his wife, and they were in the process of a divorce. And there was a lot of money at stake in the divorce. And so I file what's known as a special cirque for financial gain. So it's a murder. Strangled her to death, dumped her in a trash can in San Diego county, comes back, and I firmly believed that obviously, this has got to be it. Well, then we get into the computers. The computers come back. Turns out what was actually happening. Turns out she had a ton of money, and her family had a lot of money. His family had a lot of money. Their big dispute was he kept going and trying to think of a polite way to say this, engaging in the services of sex workers without using proper protection and giving his wife STDs, and that's what they were fighting about. So I've already charged him, believing that money is at least part of the motive to do this. And then I had to go and dismiss that enhancement the same day. As soon as I subjectively became aware, like, oh, that's what they're fighting about. I. I can no longer have faith in the charges. And ethically, as a prosecutor, you got to dump it. So you have to have an open mind through the end of the trial on these things. So the idea that. That the sheriff is making a call and saying, we are eliminating this person as a suspect or that person as a suspect, how do you know until you figured out the case? And clearly they haven't done that. This could be somebody else who did it, but you just don't know. So. And everybody's presumed innocent. And I'm throwing zero shade or accusations at anybody, but I'm saying that the process of a sheriff going, I have eliminated that person, dude, until you have a suspect in custody who gives you a story that you believe or that you're able to piece it together with their phone records or their computer records, and you have a near complete picture of how this happened, the entire world is a suspect.

[B]

Seems to have done it very quickly as well. Because like my source said, and I still believe it based on the actions of the police. The source said that right away, the Pima County Sheriff's Department zeroed in on that family member, and they towed the car. They returned the scene right away. They said they called the search off within 24 hours of Mrs. Guthrie disappearing and said the words, there's no Threat to the public. There's no reason for anybody in the public to be concerned. And then showed up at night, you know, photographing in that home, the family member's home, for three hours. And so the actions certainly seem to speak to the reporting that I had, which was. That was their focus. And so very, very quickly, suddenly he's saying everyone's. Everyone's cleared and yet won't return the vehicle that they towed under warrant.

[C]

Well, not only that, but, I mean, that's just another of the hundred statements from the sheriff that. That at first I was sympathetic, and I'm really not anymore. I saw that video, and, look, I'm a man, okay? And I've had fba, FBI firearms training. I've been threatened a million times. That video is. Is terrifying to me. Guy in a balaclava showing up in the middle of the night. How do you announce to the public that they are not at risk when that guy. And he's still on the loose, that to be fair.

[B]

To be fair, when he made the statement, they hadn't yet seen that video. They hadn't yet. Sure is scary. 24 hours afterwards. 24 hours after the announcement that she's missing. The announcement is, you're all fine.

[C]

Yeah, everybody's cool. And then. And then what, a week or two later, we get those images. Turns out everybody not so cool anymore.

[B]

Like.

[C]

Like that guy's frigging scary. Imagine if you are. If you're the same demographic as that poor Nancy Guthrie, right? Like if you're an elderly person living in Pima county, how secure do you feel with the assurances of a sheriff who says, everybody's good, Nobody's at risk. And then a few days later, the boogeyman turns up on a video. And again, that's just. That's just amateurish, you know, Poor leadership, poor law enforcement.

[B]

Once bitten, twice shy. I recall in the days after the Idaho four were murdered in their beds, we were all told, oh, there's nothing to be concerned about. There's no risk out there. This was a targeted attack. There's no risk to the community. Well, there were six weeks worth of the worst risk to the community. And he was walking about the cabin and sitting next to associates at Washington State University. And Bryan Coburger was out there, and we were told otherwise. And so now I'm concerned because it feels like a bit of a repeat. We're told, nope, there's no risk to the community, when in fact, there is a risk to the community. It just makes me wonder where his focus was and where his department's focus was on that day.

[C]

Well, and can I tell you the difference? And I'm with you 100% on that, on Coburger, which we both covered. Right. Like, you had me on your show a bunch on that and that. Look, the difference between the Bryan Coburger case and this one is you had really good leadership on their investigative team, which is super impressed by, because that's a very small area. Right. The person who let everybody down, in my view, again, just my opinion, was the prosecutor who came off the death penalty. That's another story. But the difference is they had coburger pretty much ID'd very quickly and they were following him. You know, that whole drive, the video that we saw where they pull him over twice in like a couple hours, they were onto him and they were monitoring him, they were watching him. So I'm a little more comfortable there because they knew they figured out very early who did it. And as the investigation was proceeding and

[B]

as they lied to us. But they lied to us. But they lied to us. And I will tell you this, that, that to me again, once bitten, twice shy. As a reporter, I watched the police chief, he filmed a video and posted it on the Moscow police website saying, we have no suspects. There is no one. And it was the day before that they'd identified him with ID with his, with his DNA. It was the day before that they identified him with his DNA and knew exactly who they were after and then recorded and posted. We have no suspects. So I have been lied to before. And I get it, I get it. It is the purview of the police. It's not illegal to lie to the press or the public. But as a reporter, my boss is the truth.

[C]

Sure. And I get that. And I, and I don't disagree at all. But if you're going to, if you're going to. I have less of a problem with that. If you've got the guy ID and you want to put him at ease, can effectuate a safe arrest. Like, if that means a little BS to the press, because you got the guy, I have much less of a problem with that than announcing in a case like this, no danger to the public. And when this guy is obviously incredibly dangerous and he is out there right now, and I mean, look, those images. And they released another one today, actually, that, that it was being reported that maybe it was on a different, different night. Another guy in a balaclava. It looks like the same guy again.

[B]

Again, the mess. Again the mess here. I mean, they released them all. Many of us in the true crime community said, well wait, this image, he's not wearing a backpack or a gun. It, is it the same guy? What's going on? And you know, a couple weeks later we're. Then it's confirmed that. Well, it's confirmed through every source that every outlet has, other than the sheriff, that it is a different night. And the sheriff's saying, well that's all speculative. But the sources that every other outlet, media outlet has has. That is confirmed it is a different night. So we had the pictures, but weeks later we find out they're a different night.

[C]

Yeah, I mean when you go to the public and ask for help, you got to expect the heat and you got to expect a lot of people scrutiny and yeah, and you, and look, when you, when you do that, this is a part of the deal. Like act like you've been in the end zone before, dude, as they say in, in the NFL, right? Like, like, you know, be professional about it. Understand what that means. And I have no problem appealing to the public. I've done that before on cases in conjunction with the FBI and local, local police. But it's something you map out. You strategize, you and you prepared. You've got a phone bank waiting to accept the calls. And the vast majority of people, you can break them down into three groups, right? You got people that really want to help and that's going to be the vast majority of them. And that's. I saw a weird guy walking down, walking down the street in September, you know, and they're people that, they mean well. You got to chase all those things down. It consumes a tremendous amount of resources, but it's a part of that. And every once in a while you get lucky and you hit a home run. Most of them are, yeah, I heard the raccoon. I heard noises, but it might have been the raccoons. I heard somebody screaming, but my wife's, my neighbor's wife yells at them a lot. Like most of them go, the vast majority go nowhere. The second group is you got your looney tunes that come out and say the alien, I know it's aliens that have been deducted or blah blah, blah. And those come out and that's just a part of the modern world. And then also, and I think we talked about this before you got your scammers and all of those friggin letters on the, all that stuff are. None of those are real. None of those are from this guy. They're all, they're all scams and even the back and forth. You know, in my private practice a few times I've been brought in to try to help people as almost like a fake fixer. These people that get scammed, the people that actually do call that. And you're dealing. Last one I dealt with was in the Philippines. And that the way the language, you know, the back and forth like, well, you don't trust me. So now I'm only going to do it this way. That is exactly how they sound. They try to personalize it. It's all bullshit. It is all bullshit. Those parasites are so. You got well meaning people, you got your crazies. And now we have parasites in the modern era that attempt to cash in on the absolutely horrific grief of this poor family. And for me, I don't think there's any fate bad enough for those people who try to profit from something like this.

[B]

I mean, you call them parasites. There's many more adjectives I could add to that they seem to be abating. But I will say this. The FBI, it's now being reported, has received 1500 tips, Matt, since Savannah put out her messaging yesterday. And I just wondered, is that because it's now a million dollar reward and suddenly people have a conscience or is that because people. The eyeballs are back. Because that was a big story and it made a lot of press.

[C]

I don't, I mean, again, I want to give the benefit of the doubt to anybody who'd call in and think that they're. I think that it got, you know, the million bucks maybe got another news cycle out of it and reminded people like, hey, we're still looking. Maybe you got some help. So I want to, I want to interpret that the best way, but I think anybody with actual information that's willing to share it would have revealed it a lot earlier. I mean, the longer these things go.

[B]

Or is it possible? Because I've spoken with people about this before. Some folks that were willing to turn them in were too terrified about their own security and could not afford to move their families or secure themselves. And now with $1 million, they can.

[C]

Yeah, maybe. I'm skeptical on that one.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, they're this. They're not going to have to worry about this guy if the FBI gets him. You know, he's. He's over and out. If they can put together a good enough case. So now I don't think so. I, I'm skeptical that it maybe. I mean, look, you never know. Every one of these cases is different And I pray to God that I'm wrong about everything and this poor woman is still alive and somehow they've managed to keep her alive and she'll be freed. But look, I mean, I've been on record on your show before. I think she was dead inside the house. You know, that's always been my, my thought. But I, I see these cases through a very jaded lens of 20, you know, 21 years of homicide and sexual assault, so.

[B]

Yeah, well, you've seen a lot. There's a, there's. To the tipsters who, like you mentioned, they, they want. They're. They're well meaning. They wanted. They want to help. Matt Ruiz from Fox News reported from Fox Digital that a neighbor of Nancy Guthrie's said that she saw a man who, quote, unquote, didn't find fit in the community walking near the missing woman's home in January a couple weeks before, and said he didn't, quote, he didn't have your typical walking gear on. He had his hat pulled really far over his eyes. If that was a tip and you were looking at it, what, what's your lens?

[C]

That's probably some well meaning, very nice person who wants to help. And that's the best they got. And when, when that is the, the latest tip that's getting reported, we're officially at the bottom of the barrel, you know, but look, I've had, I've had cases again on my NYRI case that you remember. We were, we had nothing and we were, we. My cops were doing a canvas. This is a kidnapping with a man who was sexually mutilated in the desert. He's a marijuana dispensary owner and horrific case. And, you know, a canvas is kind of semi desperate when essentially you just send explorer scouts and police officers, usually the young ones, out to knock on every neighbor's door and just hope you get something. And that one, they knocked on a woman's door who's like, I mean, she's a hero. So I don't want to belittle her by the comparison, but I just think of Mrs. Kravitz from Bewitched, you know, the lady that's always looking out her window. We had one of those. This woman was absolutely awesome. And the cops are like, hey, did you happen to see anything? And she said, as a matter of fact, I did. I, I saw a white truck, three boys in work, workman's gear that didn't look like it had ever been used. And they're like, please tell us you can give us a Description of the truck, and she's like, well, I've got the license plate without help. And it broke our case wide open. So you never know. You know, every once in a while, you will get. You'll get that tip, and you hit, you hit the home run. Case gets solved. Bad guys get arrested. And, you know, but again, the arrest isn't the end of this. They have to be prosecuted, and the prosecution has to withstand appellate scrutiny. And that means that decisions now need to be correct. They need to conform to the sacrosanct constitutional rights of whoever this. This person is going to be. And one day, this case is going to be solved. Okay? Hopefully tomorrow, maybe in a year, maybe it's in five years. One day this case is going to be solved. And decisions have to be made today, in fact, starting four weeks ago, that don't screw up the prosecution so that that person is held accountable. There's justice for the family, and they are never given the opportunity ever again to hurt anybody else. And that depends on the integrity of the prosecution.

[B]

To that end, I should also tell you that fox is reporting today that the Pima county sheriff's department reported no activity at the house today. And yet our very eyes were seeing, you know, a half dozen people in blue suits. And also enten telling us that one of the people who was there was actually a Pima county homicide detective. So after that, Pima county sheriff's office said that it had no press conferences planned. It will now be limiting its updates to media about the Guthrie case. And here's the quote, daily updates. The Pima county sheriff's department PIO team has been distributing updates to the media on an almost daily basis. At this time, we. We will limit further updates to instances when new information warrants release. So now suddenly, we're not even going to get the, you know, the. The printed statements anymore?

[C]

No, it's like that old statement, you know, believe me. And not your. Your damn lying eyes. Right. And by the way, Brian. Brian's a friend of mine. Brian's reporting on this, I think, has been absolutely stellar, great, you know, but the problems on this one, and I've had cases where I put it heads with the media, and now I kind of work in the media, I guess. The problems on this case have never been the media. The problem in this case is the leadership. And look, in fairness, these cases can be very difficult. They can be difficult to solve, and they can take a long time. But yeah, when reporters are saying, we've had the most activity ever, you got feds rolling in, in their suits. You got somebody in the garage, everybody's outside doing that. And the same day you get. You get yet another contradictory statement from the sheriff's department saying, nothing happened today. It's like, dude, we know stuff happened. And just every time they do that, that's an unforced error. And every day it seems like we got something else. It is. And I don't want to be too harsh again, I really don't. But it just. It is amateur hour with the sheriff's department. And. And that doesn't mean if we had a real pro in there, that they would have made an arrest, but it sure would increase public confidence in the integrity of this investigation, which is critical for public confidence in the integrity eventually of a prosecution, because if you lose that, you're going to lose the case. And then this guy gets out and does it to somebody else. This is a public safety issue. And of course, he's not doing any more press conferences because he doesn't want to be grilled anymore on going to basketball games, you know, five days after this poor woman goes missing or whatever other questions, or I guess you'd have to read the DNA report to answer questions about whether or not this poor woman's DNA is on those gloves. And by the way, I. You know, that's about the time that I hung it up and I couldn't watch anymore, Ashley. So there are people who definitely know the details of this thing more than me. But all that hullabaloo about those gloves, and it turned out that was nothing. And you and I talked about that.

[B]

This.

[C]

And I told you that every time you do a canvas, you always find gloves.

[B]

Always.

[C]

You know, there's gardening gloves, there's bikers gloves, there's. Central park right now is filled with frozen gloves. One glove, you know, that's just a nature. The nature of the beast on these things. And I guarantee they found gloves in the neighbor's yards and, you know, gloves that gardeners have used and workmen have, you know, roofer gloves. There's all kinds of gloves out there in the world. Every one of them. You're going to get DNA in them. And virtually none of them are probably going to have anything to do with this case today.

[B]

Brian Enten said that at least one person who was on the property today with that big group of folks that all showed up, the FBI, the U.S. attorney's office, and the sheriff's homicide detective, one of them was seen wearing gloves. Does that sound normal to you? That if they're Just doing this canvas, they would have gloves on.

[C]

Yes. Okay. Every time. And look, this is a. It's kind of funny. I don't. I don't know if I'm supposed to say this on air, but HBO option, my book. Right. So in working with the writer who's trying to develop a screenplay, and hopefully, hopefully they buy the rights. Keep your fingers crossed for me. But great writer. And he wanted to know, like, what actually happens when you go to a murder scene and you go to the yellow tape. You sign in so they can keep track of everybody. And then you put on nitrile is what we would use. Nitrile, gloves, everything, so your DNA doesn't wind up on anything that you touch inside. You also put little paper booties over your shoes to ensure that, number one, you're not tracking anything from the outside into a crime scene. But number two, some of those crime scenes with viscera and blood, you don't want any of that stuff in your own kitchen. So, yes, it's totally normal. Those gloves would be on. And then depending on the sensitivity of the case, sometimes we would mask up. Sometimes you put on the little hat thing just to make sure. If you're a police officer or prosecutor doing homicide cases, you have to submit your DNA for CODIS so that it can be eliminated. You know, if. If you breathe. And some people are, what are known as shedders, actually, where they just seem to. They just seem to leave a lot of DNA. And some people aren't. Yeah, we had a CSI guy in Irvine, a great guy, real professional, but just his. Whatever it was about his body. We. We thought we had a serial killer as DNA was coming up because we kept getting unknown male DNA at a bunch of different scenes. But it made no sense because one was like 711 robbery. In other words, a domestic murder where he had a confession from the husband. Like, it didn't make any sense that we had unknown male DNA until somebody was like, wait a minute. And we tested him. And it was. And it was. I'll leave his name out, but it was his DNA. And he. And he. He would mask up. He was aware of it. Like, especially after that became an issue, his DNA still kept turning up. It's just one of those things some people shed and they call them shedders. Just a ton of DNA, and other people just don't. It's a quirk of organic chemistry.

[B]

Matt, as we've been recording, this is just in. According to Fox from the Pima County Attorney's Office, quote, veteran prosecutors from the Pima County Attorney's office continue to work with the Pima County Sheriff's Department, the FBI and the U.S. attorney's Office regarding the investigation into the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie. I think this is a response from rumors that maybe the county attorney was on scene today or she's watching your show.

[C]

Or she's watching your show. Absolutely. And wanted. Wanted to respond to the heat. Look, the comments about. She. She said that they can't comment. They have ethical provisions against commenting regarding the details of the case. That is true. That is true. And they have to be very careful not to do that once again in order to preserve the integrity. However, we're four weeks into this, and I. And I hope, again, I don't know what's been going on behind the scenes. I hope that the local prosecutors were involved. The experienced homicide prosecutors from that county should have been involved that night, and I hope that's the case. I have no information that it is. So it looks like the people that showed up today were in fact, feds. That's been confirmed. I don't know one way or another, but it looks like they're denying that those were the local prosecutors. So.

[B]

Or maybe. Or maybe there was somebody there from the county attorney because she's not confirming or denying either.

[C]

They need to take an active role in this. And like I said, hopefully that's been happening behind the scenes, but we just haven't heard or seen anything indicating that. So hopefully, maybe it's like a duck, all calm on the surface and under the water, the part we can't see. Maybe her office has been working really hard. I hope that's the case. Otherwise, the Guthrie family has been disserviced, in my opinion. You need vertical prosecution on a case like this. I mean, you need prosecutors assigned to that case on the ground from the very beginning. And this is the first peep I have heard from this DA a month into this. So, yeah, hopefully she's been quietly working behind the scenes. I hope so. But I wouldn't be surprised by anything from Pima county officials at this point.

[B]

I learn so much every time I talk to you, and oftentimes it's something like this that I didn't expect. Matt, thank you. Thank you so much for your time

[C]

and for your experiment. Thanks for having me. Thank you for letting me vent. I'm just frustrated with this case, so I hope I didn't offend anybody. Again, all just my opinion, not throwing shade on anybody or casting suspicions or aspersions on anybody. Except. But maybe the sheriff.

[B]

You're not alone. Yeah, I know you're not alone. Thank you. So that's where we are, folks. Here we are. I'm recording this on day 25, late, late in the day. And we're coming to the end of week four. And, and just, I would say we probably know as much as we did, you know, two weeks into this investigation as we do now. And it's just, it's disheartening because there is a family behind this that is desperate for answers. So they are being tormented every single day by the notion that they don't know where their mom is, they don't know what's happened to her. And as Savannah said in her statement yesterday, they believe they, they may have to come to the, to the realization that she's no longer with us. And so to know that there's a sort of a messy messaging in this investigation going on, I sure hope that, as Matt mentioned, that the duck that paddles under the water frantically but looks very calm above, I hope that there's some semblance of that going on in this investigation, but it has been just a total shit show in terms of the messaging from the, from the sheriff. Not going to lie. I hope that the hard work that all of his deputies are doing will eventually pay off. If you know anything, if you know anything, 1-800- call FBI is the number to call 1-800- call FBI and remember this. It's about the 1st of February, Sunday, the 1st of February. Do you know somebody who fits that build that you've seen on that nest cam that was acting weird that day that disappeared without any explanation or a bad explanation? Their patterns change, their moods change, their behavior, their focus, all of that changed in that day and the ensuing days. Do you know somebody in that area that behave that way? If you do, 1, 800, call FBI because that, my friend, is considered a tip. Don't forget to subscribe. I so appreciate it when you do and I'd love to have you join our membership as well so we can have a more personal conversation. We're going to have another one of those coming up in the, in the coming days, so keep your eyes peeled. By the way, when you subscribe, you get the notifications about that. So it's one other benefit to subscribe. Subscribing. Thank you everyone for listening. Thank you everyone for watching. And remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious. Weight Watchers now offers access to affordable GLP1s. It works for members like I'm Haley

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