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EXCLUSIVE: Iran’s Deputy Foreign Minister Rejects Trump’s “Big Lie” About Why He Went to War
00:28:08
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- [00:00]
A
Jeremy. I'm Jeremy Scahill. This is dropsite news. Dropsitenews.com this is day five of the US and Israeli massive bombing campaign against Iran. The civilian death toll inside of Iran is rising. The United States and Israel are bombing targets across the country. There have been some very high death attacks on civilians as well in Iran. From the Iranian side, the Iranians are conducting a ferocious series of retaliatory attacks against U.S. bases and other targets in region. There are reports now that Iran may soon name a new supreme leader. And we are very fortunate now to be able to go to Tehran to speak to a senior Iranian official. Esmael Bagai is the spokesperson for Iran's Foreign Ministry. He's also a Deputy Foreign Minister. Deputy Foreign Minister, thank you so much for being with us here at Dropsite.
- [00:54]
B
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
- [00:56]
A
I want to begin by asking you about these reports that the assembly of Experts that are tasked with choosing a new supreme leader for Iran have met and we understand that they may be on the verge of selecting a supreme leader who would succeed the late Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, who of course was assassinated along with members of his family by the United States and Israel. What is the current status of this process given that the United States and Israel claim that they bombed on Tuesday the building and meeting of the assembly of Experts?
- [01:32]
B
Yeah, actually that was a sinister attack on the building in the city of Qom, the headquarters of the assembly of Experts which is responsible for electing the new Supreme Leader. The process is going on in accordance with the constitution. Right now we have Inim and Intri Leadership Council that is charged with governing the everyday affairs of the state. And as long as these, I mean the, the supreme leader should be elected quite soon, but until then, this interim council is in charge of this state.
- [02:25]
A
So Donald Trump is claiming that the US and Israel keep killing leaders that Iran is contemplating putting in charge. Are you saying that that was not a successful strike on any, on the members of the assembly of Experts that would be going through this constitutional process?
- [02:43]
B
True, but, but, but that's something the whole humanity, the American people should really be alarmed at the level of these bloodthirsty operations. Why are they trying to kill everyone in Iran? I can call it a kind of genocide on the one hand, I mean, look, the same day, the same hours that they targeted our leadership's compound at the heart of Tehran and they assassinated the Supreme Leader, his family members, including a 14 month granddaughter, they targeted a school in the city of Minab south of Iran. They killed 181 little angels. What does it mean? That's genocide. Because they are killing not only the leaders, but also those who are going to be the future generation of Iran. Are they really the imminent threat to the United States? I think these deserve to be contemplated. The American people deserve to know what is going on, what kind of conduct their government is doing, how their government is abusing their money, their tax money, their image in the Middle east, in the Islamic world, just in furtherance of the whims of Benjamin Netanyahu, who is, by the way, wanted by icc, who is a genocidal killer in Palestine. So far, he has killed more than 72,000 people. So what we are watching right now is the continuation of an unprovoked, unwarranted act of aggression. First, they claimed that Iran posed an imminent threat to the United States. What kind of threat can Iran pose to the United States? Did we come to the Gulf of Mexico to target Los angeles and other U.S. cities? Or they come 600, I mean, 6,500 miles away from Iranian shores and they are just targeting every part of Iran. They are killing our citizens. Municipalities, schools, hospitals, medical centers, sports clubs, everywhere is being bombarded and targeted by missiles by Israeli and American war machine.
- [05:30]
A
I wanted to ask you also, Donald Trump has claimed that Iranian officials through back channels have tried to restart talks with the United States or negotiate. I've spoken with other Iranian officials who say that this is not true and that in fact, third parties have come to Iran and suggested that maybe the United States wants to talk. What is the current position of your government on resuming any sort of negotiations with the United States? Have you reached out through intermediaries to ask to resume talks?
- [06:03]
B
Do you think any Iranian with common sense would be really in a position to reach out to the United States under these circumstances? We were negotiating with the United States in just nine months, in the course of less than one year. We were betrayed. Diplomacy was betrayed. We were negotiating with the US Negotiators in June. We were supposed to meet for the sixth round in Muscat. And just two days before that, the United States and Israel attacked Iran. Right now, we negotiated in all good faith, in all seriousness in Geneva. And please, I refer you to the words of Omani foreign Minister. He is a neutral, impartial mediator. He said that we had significant progress. And then he suggested to both delegation that let's talk in Vienna on technical details of a possible deal. And we both agreed. And again, on the 28th of February just one day after that, the American and Israelis attacked Iran. And look what Rubio said. He said that we entered this war on behalf of Israel. So they contradicted themselves because they first said we had to push against an imminent threat from Iran. That's a big lie. And then Pentagon themselves, they said that there was no imminent threat from Iran. There was no intention on the part of Iran to attack the United States. And please go to the history of Iran for the past 100 years. Have we ever attacked any neighboring country? No. We have only defended ourselves being during 1980s against Saddam, dictator of Iraq, who was equipped by some Western countries, including the United States, with chemical weapons, or against Daesh terrorists after they attacked our cities inside Iran during the June attack. Again, we had to use our missile system in defense of our people. So every responsible state, every responsible government is both entitled and duty bound to defend its citizens.
- [08:37]
A
So Iran, just to get a clear answer, Iran has not in any way reached out to the United States asking for a resumption of talks since the bombing began.
- [08:46]
B
As I said, right now, we are 100% focused on defending our people, defending our sovereignty, defending our national territory against this egregious act of aggression.
- [09:02]
A
I want to ask you about. You alluded to this, but the narratives being put forward by the Trump administration, they're issuing narratives that actually contradict each other. As you mentioned, the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio came out and he said essentially that the US Believed that when Israel attacked Iran, which they knew Israel was going to attack Iran, that Iran was then going to retaliate as a result of Israel attacking Iran. And therefore, the United States needed to preemptively attack Iran because Iran was going to attack Israel after Israel attacked Iran. And there was a big media scandal about this in the United States because this is essentially saying that the US Is waging a war on the grounds that another country was going to do something that was then going to cause the United States to have to do something. It was a completely twisted logic. And then Trump tried to do some cleanup of that as he sat alongside the German chancellor in the White House on Tuesday. And he said, no, no, no, no. Actually, we believed that because the negotiations were going poorly that the Iranians were going to be the first to strike at us. And that's why we did this. Preemptive attack.
- [10:11]
B
Lies after lies. And I'm really sorry. Because we, as Iranians, we regard the American public, the American citizens, we regard them smart enough to recognize what their administrations or doing and are suggesting to them. They should not believe these lies. I again refer to the words of Benjamin Netanyahu, who said that the decision to attack Iran was made during the first term of President Trump in office. So in a way, all these negotiations, this diplomatic process has been a sham. It has been a sort of deception. And I don't want to say that we didn't know that they intended to attack Iran. They just wanted to find an excuse. Still, out of our responsible approach towards our own people, towards the region, we didn't reject the idea of getting together and trying to talk to the United States. And that's what we do. What we did during the past nine months, two times we tried our best, but at the end of the day, they betrayed diplomacy. And I think that's a shame for the American diplomacy. That's a discredit for the United States as a negotiating partner globally.
- [11:46]
A
You know, one thing we reported prior to the start of this bombing was that Iranian officials told us that they viewed Iran as exercising maximum flexibility. Almost unprecedented. One official told me, it's almost unbelievable what we've been putting on the table. And by all accounts, and I've talked to American officials who were involved in the 2015 negotiations that led to an actual deal, they said that what Iran has put on the table extends far beyond what was contained in the 2015 agreement. And yet we've had Steve Witkoff, the special envoy of Donald Trump, publicly stating a number of assertions. One is he said, without citing any evidence, that Iran was days away from having industrial grade bomb making material. That was one, one statement he made. And then he went on Fox News and he said, and I want to read you this quote and I want to get your response to this. He's talking about the negotiations. This is a direct quote from Steve Witkoff. In that first meeting, both the Iranian negotiators said to us directly, with no shame, that they controlled 460 kilograms of 60%, meaning enriched uranium. And they're aware that that could make 11 nuclear bombs. And that was the beginning of their negotiating stance. Witkoff said they were proud of it. They were proud that they had evaded all sorts of oversight protocols to get to a place where they could deliver 11 nuclear bombs. What is Steve Witkoff talking about here? Is it true that that's what the Iranians said going into this?
- [13:20]
B
Absolutely false. That's simply a big lie. You see, first, Iran's nuclear program has been safeguarded. For the whole two or three decades, Iran's nuclear program has been under IAEA inspection every minute, every second so what we did, what we accumulated was done before the eyes of the iaea. What we said, and this was not our calculation, it was their own calculation, it was the European calculation because they just wanted to frighten everyone. They just wanted to say that Iran is going to make nuclear weapon. They said that these 400 kilograms of highly enriched uranium equals to 10 bombs. It you see, it's nonsensical comparison saying that because you have these materials it means that automatically you can produce nuclear weapon. Everyone who has a minimum knowledge of technical aspects of nuclear science knows that simply having these stockpile doesn't mean that you are going to make nuclear weapon. So what is claiming is not right. Still, on this particular issue we made generous proposals. We said that if this is your concern, we have every possibility to take care of that, for instance, through dilution or blending them down. Okay, but all of these proposals were rejected by them, although they said, okay, we can go to Vienna and talk about the details. But you know what they did just two days before that? Timing. I mean, Monday we were supposed to be in Vienna, but they started attacking Iran on Saturday.
- [15:31]
A
I want to ask you about what has become the focus of overwhelming attention throughout the Persian Gulf among Arab states. And that is there is a very clear portrayal of Iran as being the aggressor in, in these strikes that have taken place against US Bases, embassies, consulates and other facilities in the region. But I want to get you on the record because I think it's extremely important. I don't often hear the Iranian position on this broadcast in response to any of these allegations. There are allegations that Iran has attacked oil infrastructure, Saudi Aramco as well as a couple of strikes inside of Oman. The Iranian government, as I understand it, has implied or suggested that perhaps some of these strikes are false flag attacks being conducted by Israel to try to pull Gulf states further into the American Israeli war against Iran. I want to ask you for the record, is it Iranian policy right now and has Iran attacked any oil infrastructure of any of its Arab neighbors in the Gulf?
- [16:41]
B
I can tell you we regard the security of the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman, the security of the whole region as part of our own security. Without security in the region, we cannot survive as Iran. What we said even months ago that if there would be another war, that would, that war would not be limited only to Iran. Why? This was not a threat. This was a kind of foreseeing of the actual situation because the Americans are abusing the territories of our Arab friends. They are the, the, the American military bases are scattered around us. Iran is surrounded by American military bases across the region. And they are using those bases for logistics, for preparation and for conducting this act of aggression against Iran. And under international law, Iran is entitled to defend itself. We are entitled to target the origin of those attacks against Iran. But we are very careful because we are noble people. We are Persians, we are Iranians. We never attack civilians. We are armed forces. They attack only those installations, those military bases that are being used or in fact abused by the United States to attack Iran. You refer to the false flag operation. That's a fact. And Israel has already used this during the past eight decades in many cases. I refer you to what Tucker Carlson said the other day, that Mossad agents were caught, they were arrested in Qatar, in Saudi Arabia, trying to a plant bomb somewhere. So this, because right now the situation is very complicated and the probability, the likelihood of abuse by such actors is very high. And I give you.
- [18:57]
A
Yes, please, just, just, I want to just. So you're categorically saying that Iran has not intentionally targeted any Arab Gulf states, oil infrastructure.
- [19:08]
B
True, true. But we are in a situation of war and during the situation of war, other actors may abuse the situation. And I would like to point out one important fact without accusing any party. The fact is that what the United States and Israel did against Iran was not simply the assassination of a political figure. Our supreme leader was not only a political personality in Iran. He was one of the most high ranking religious jurists. He was very popular across the region and across the globe. You see what happened in Karachi, Pakistan, in India, in Iraq. His followers are protesting, they are angry against this unprecedented crime of killing a religious figure. And I think that was a great mistake by the United States to target such personality. The consequences would be dire, would be long term consequences. Because what they did, they turned this war of aggression into a sort of civilizational religious war. That was very reckless. That was very reckless. So that's why the Muslims across the globe are badly mad. They are angry at the United States and Israel because of their co conspiracy to attack Iran and to target a religious figure.
- [21:00]
A
The reports in the US Right now also have been focusing on Trump's dealings with Kurdish leaders. Of course, he reportedly had talks with some Iraqi Kurdish leaders and others. And then CNN and other US Media outlets are reporting that the CIA is starting to work with Kurdish forces on the Iraq Iran border. And the idea is that there would be an intent to use them as sort of a ground force if there was civil unrest that started to spread inside of Iran as part of the regime change operations that Trump and others have spoken of. That combined with the fact that the US And Israel are systematically targeting domestic security forces in Iran, the police, the Basij others. Are you concerned that what you might see in another phase of this is an attempt to activate units inside of Iran, perhaps that the Mossad has cultivated and then start to use Kurdish forces or others to try to wage something looking like a civil war, maybe encouraging defections of the army or the irgc? This does seem to be, and if you look at US History in Syria and elsewhere, that's part of the game plan that they've used. Deputy Minister, what about these reports on the Kurds and then the possibility that they're going to try to create civil war type conditions inside of Iran?
- [22:23]
B
See what, what we are watching if, if you, if you see the pattern of their behavior, the United States and Israel during the past three or four decades, they love to create failure states, they love to create bloodshed. They, they have so much appetite for turning the states into chaos. And that's what they are trying to do in Iran, abusing ethnic cities, abusing other countries, ethnic minorities. That's what they are trying to do. And that's why exactly we said that the January protest in Iran was abused by Israel and United States in order to pressurize the state, in order to make our streets unsafe and unsecure. So now everyone can understand what we said during the January protest was true. During those protests, 3,170 people were killed. And we said that those protests were turned violent by those who infiltrated the protesters. Unfortunately, in west, people accused the Iranian government. But now everyone can understand that that was part of their plot to make Iran insecure, to try, as you put it, to try to go for their wins of what they call it regime change. But at the end of the day, they do not care about the human rights of the Iranians because if they cared even a bit, they would not target the innocent girls in their school. And by the way, you notice, according to investigation by Al Jazeera, that was completely intentional. They first targeted the school in order to preoccupy the armed forces with desperate search and rescue in order to hit their military targets.
- [24:49]
A
I know you have to go in one minute, but just one final question for your comment. Do you believe that this is going to end in a negotiated solution in any form? Is Iran going to return to the table or do you see this as an existential war?
- [25:07]
B
I think this is an existential war because this is what they have imposed on Iran for the past two years. We tried our best. We tried to remove all the excuses that they provided. What they told us was completely, was simply pretext. Sometimes in Iran, people say when they want to refer to the current situation and why the negotiations came to this situation, they give us the example, the fable of the little lamb and the wolf. Of course, we are not the little lamb. We are regarded to be the Persian cat. But the fact is that whatever we did, they raised another excuse. You remember in June they said that they obliterated Iranian nuclear program, period. And still they are talking about one week away from Iran's producing weapons grade nuclear material. That's a big lie. And I think the American people deserve to know, to understand what their government is doing against the innocent people in Iran. They are waging a war against one of the most enduring civilization across the globe. And please again, bear in mind that they are targeting every symbol and signs of our rich culture and heritage. Yesterday they attacked Gulistan palace in the center of Tehran. And that was one of the monumental heritage of Iranian civilization. So what they are doing, they not just killing our officials, our elites, they are also killing innocent girls, nurses, and targeting the municipalities in order to deprive people of everyday basic services. And I think that's a shame. Now we are in the middle of a historic moment and I think the United States administrations, instead of trying to somehow take care of the the old wound that they created in 1953, they are recreating that. They are reminding Iranians of the betrayal of 1953 when they try to plant a dictatorship in Iran. Right now, they are repeating the same.
- [27:59]
A
All right, thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate you taking the time in the middle of this massive attack against your country. Thank you so much for being with us.
- [28:07]
B
Thank you so much. Thank you.