Drop Site News Podcast Summary

Episode Title: The RSF's Systematic Mass Killings in El-Fasher & the Latest on Hamas and Khaled Meshaal
Date: December 16, 2025
Hosts: Ryan Grim, Sharif Abdel Kouddous
Guests: Nathaniel Raymond (Yale Humanitarian Research Lab), Jeremy Scahill

Episode Theme & Purpose

This episode takes a deep dive into two critical and under-reported crises:

• The systematic mass killings in El-Fasher, Sudan, by the Rapid Support Forces (RSF).
• On-the-ground context and strategy updates from Hamas, featuring reporting from Jeremy Scahill and an exclusive interview with Khaled Meshaal, the founding political leader of Hamas.

The episode first uses new forensic and satellite analysis from Yale University’s Humanitarian Research Lab to detail the overwhelming human toll in Sudan, then turns to the shifting politics—regional and global—around Palestine, the Trump administration's "peace" plans, and negotiations involving Hamas.

Section 1: The Catastrophe in Sudan—RSF Killings in El-Fasher

Background & Humanitarian Crisis ([01:15]-[03:34])

• Current Situation: Sudan now represents the world’s largest humanitarian crisis, with mass atrocities (killings, sexual violence, starvation), catapulting it to the top of emergency watchlists for three consecutive years.

• Key Numbers:

  • 33 million in humanitarian need
  • 19 million at crisis food insecurity
  • ~7 million displaced
  • "Estimates put the number [killed] at 60,000 in a very short span of time.” (Sharif Abdel Kouddous, [03:31])

• Historical Context:

  • The RSF (Rapid Support Forces) grew from the Janjaweed militias and gained substantial power (backed by foreign actors, especially UAE).
  • Sudan’s 2019 revolution led to a brief civilian-military power-sharing government, which collapsed in a military coup, followed by the SAF (Sudanese Armed Forces) and RSF turning on each other in April 2023.

Forensic Evidence of Mass Killings ([07:38]-[17:00])

Nathaniel Raymond (Yale HRL) presents the new satellite-based report:

• Main Findings:

  • Identified 150 piles of human remains in El-Fasher in the first week alone ([07:38]).
  • "It's the first time a civilian organization with high-resolution satellite imagery has attempted an analysis of a Rwanda-style mass killing in near real time." (Nathaniel Raymond, [07:49])

• Methodology:

  • Used satellite imagery to track "body piles" over time: noting when/if they’re moved, burned, buried.
  • The goal: to build a forensic record for international justice mechanisms.

• Key Visuals:

  • ‘Ghost town’ effect: Abnormal vegetation, no signs of civilian movement, “grass growing in the city”—evidence of mass absence/death ([01:32], [13:04]).
  • Two critical stories in the data:
    1. Central neighborhood slaughter: RSF targeted last refuge areas, going house-to-house, killing trapped civilians.
    2. Berm killings: Body trails leading out of the city—men and boys separated at RSF checkpoints and executed ([10:28]-[12:58]).

Notable Quote:

“There’s so much killing that the blood is visible from space.”
—Sharif Abdel Kouddous, summarizing the report ([03:31])

Scale of the Massacre: Casualty Estimates ([12:58]-[16:51])

• Death Toll Calculations:

  • Satellite data, UN and IOM tracking, and ground reports suggest tens of thousands killed.
  • "On the public numbers available right now, we're working with a mean estimate of 60k missing or dead." (Nathaniel Raymond, [13:04])

• Detentions & Displacements:

  • Widespread, possibly systematic mass detentions, possibly overstated in some sources. The sheer scale of killings corroborated by “collapse of pattern of life” on satellite images.

Patterns and Methods of Killing ([16:51]-[18:56])

• Four patterns identified:
  1. Fleeing killings: Civilians shot attempting to escape.
  2. House-to-house killings.
  3. Street executions.
  4. Killings in detention (e.g., former children’s hospital).
• "When you don't know which hospital massacre people are talking about because there's so many, that's a sign that things aren't going well." (Raymond, [18:15])

International & Political Context ([19:08]-[38:59])

RSF’s Success Enabled by UAE:

• "The level of covert support from the UAE to RSF is the single most decisive assistance operation for a paramilitary force since CIA support for the Mujahideen...in Afghanistan." ([22:59])
• RSF "now has four classes of UAVs...can hit over 1,300 square kilometers in range...beyond traditional Sudanese military capability" ([22:59]-[27:10]).

Western/Inaction and Complicity:

• Both Trump and Biden administrations have failed to act decisively. Biden prioritized a security partnership with UAE over Sudan’s civilian protection (“The Biden administration prioritized the UAE security relationship over the civilian protection urgency of stopping a genocide. That’s the fact...” [31:12])
• “RSF uses negotiation and pledges of humanitarian ceasefire every time it is either initiating a massacre or wants to complete it...the international community doesn't want to do the only thing that's going to slow this down..." ([28:06])

Future Prospects:

• “2026 is going to be the bloodiest year yet...without outside intervention against the RSF, [they are] poised to take more major cities with millions at risk.” ([36:40], [38:59])

Emotional Toll on Investigators:

• "We said in July 2023...when Al Fajr falls, there will be no rescue. We will have to watch the city get slaughtered...the team has...not broken." ([40:08])

Section 2: Developments in Gaza—Hamas, Regional Politics, and the U.S. Plan

Regional Diplomatic Jockeying & U.S. Strategy ([42:45]-[49:40])

• New U.S. Plan (“Trump Plan, Phase Two”):

  • Aims to deploy an “international stabilization force” in Gaza, with a first mission to disarm the Palestinian resistance.
  • “Major Islamic countries, Arab countries...have said, ‘We're not going to go in with that mission.’”
  • Egypt & Turkey: Open to deploying international force, but not to disarm or fight Palestinian resistance ([44:00]-[45:00]).

• Hamas’s Response:

  • Refusal to surrender, even as they face ongoing genocide.
  • “No Palestinians have raised a white flag. The Palestinian resistance has not surrendered its weapons...In fact, they have refused to do that.” (Jeremy Scahill, [47:55])

Khaled Meshaal—Profile and Political Position ([54:30]-[59:41])

• Who is he:
  • Founder of Hamas, led the political bureau from the '90s to 2017; survived a high-profile Mossad assassination attempt ([59:41]-[59:42]).
• Political Evolution of Hamas:
  • Under his leadership, Hamas developed a political wing, expressed willingness (in 2017 charter) to accept a Palestinian state along pre-1967 borders if chosen democratically ([62:00]-[63:00]).
  • Explicit rejection of anti-Semitism and emphasis on national liberation.

On Disarmament and International Arrangements ([50:25]-[55:00])

• “Weapons of willpower”:

  • The primary “weapon” for Hamas and Islamic Jihad is will and ingenuity rather than heavy arms.
  • “The most decisive weapon that was used...was ingenuity. That was a small arms fire operation. It was not about tanks, it was not about air power.” ([50:25])

• Pragmatic Offers:

  • Willingness to accept nonpartisan Palestinian police overseeing security in Gaza (“we will accept a Palestinian police force...deployed in the streets of Gaza...” [55:00]).
  • Open to technical negotiations about arms and weapons security—emphasis that the current debate is more about forcing surrender than actual safety or peace ([54:00]-[58:00]).

Critique of U.S. and European Policy, Abbas’s Role ([79:35]-[85:00])

• Arab States & Trump Deal:

  • Meshaal notes that the “business” relationships between Arab regimes and the U.S./Trump have undermined their willingness to support Palestinian demands ([79:48]).

• Palestinian Elections and Political Rights:

  • New laws under Abbas and external pressure could ban participation by any party with an armed wing—which would exclude not only Hamas but many others, including the moderate opposition ([84:29]).
  • “This means that what Abbas is doing is issuing decree laws...that Palestinians do not have a right to be organized in any armed fashion outside of acting as security agents for Israel.” ([85:00])

• European Hypocrisy:

  • The push for “a Palestinian state with no weapons” never includes talk of Israeli disarmament—“When are we ever going to talk about Israel’s weapons?” ([91:22])

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the human evidence of atrocity (Sudan):

  “Pattern of civilian life in Al Fasher seems to have all but ended...no visible civilian activity...absence of crowds...a literal ghost town.”
  —Yale HRL report (read by Ryan Grim, [01:32])

• On international complicity:

  “The only thing that's going to slow this down is basically the end of duty free shopping in Terminal 1 in Dubai...Until there is economic pain...this is not going to end.”
  —Nathaniel Raymond, [28:06]

• On the Hamas political offer:

  “We will give you our guarantee...[that] not a single weapon of the resistance will appear on the streets...That’s what they’re putting on the table.”
  —Jeremy Scahill, [55:00]

• On international priorities:

  “The Biden administration prioritized the UAE security relationship over the civilian protection urgency of stopping a genocide. That's the fact...”
  —Nathaniel Raymond, [31:12]

• On the futility of returning to “before”:

  “If the world thinks that Palestinians are going to accept just going back to the October 6th reality, I think history indicates that that is a fool's intellectual errand.”
  —Jeremy Scahill, [91:22]

Supplementary Timestamps

| Topic | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Introduction & Sudan context | 01:15–03:34 | | Nathaniel Raymond, Yale HRL segment begins | 07:38 | | Body piles and methodology | 07:38–10:28 | | Patterns of killing and berm killings | 10:28–13:04 | | Death toll estimate thread | 13:04–16:51 | | UAE & RSF military advances | 22:59–27:10 | | US/Western policy failures | 27:44–33:49 | | What’s next—future atrocities | 36:40–39:11 | | Emotional toll on forensic analysts | 40:08–41:43 | | Jeremy Scahill on Gaza & US plan | 42:45–49:40 | | Khaled Meshaal profile | 54:30–62:00 | | Hamas political positions, 2017 charter | 62:00–63:30 | | Critique of Palestinian election bans (Abbas) | 84:29–85:00 | | Final thoughts—Palestinian refusal to capitulate | 90:01–91:22 |

Takeaways & Conclusion

• The Sudan segment is a rare, clear-eyed forensic account of an ongoing genocide enabled by regional and global powers’ inaction—and at times direct complicity—with chilling evidence laid out by satellite, data, and survivor testimony.
• The Gaza segment, via Jeremy Scahill’s reporting and Khaled Meshaal’s exclusive interview, reframes familiar narratives: rather than seeking surrender or acquiescence, Palestinian parties are making pragmatic, concrete (but often ignored) proposals for local security and governance, while regional and international actors—driven by business, politics, and inertia—block progress and accountability.
• Both crises are connected by a common through-line: massive civilian suffering, international “process” as a disguise for complicity, and the need for honest reporting that takes the perspectives and agency of local people seriously.

For the full transcript and to support this kind of independent reporting, visit Drop Site News