Sitcoms, Food and the Good Life with Phil Rosenthal

Summary

Dropping Names ...and Other Things

Episode: "Sitcoms, Food and the Good Life"

Hosts: Brent Spiner & Jonathan Frakes
Date: March 26, 2026
Guest: Phil Rosenthal (Creator: Everybody Loves Raymond, Somebody Feed Phil)

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Episode Overview

In this animated, laugh-filled episode, Brent Spiner and Jonathan Frakes host Phil Rosenthal, famed sitcom creator and food-travel show host. The conversation journeys from the inside baseball of sitcom production, the evolution and survival of family comedies, and the perils of TV network decision-making, to food’s power to foster human connection and hilarious digressions about breakfast toast. The mood is warm, funny and reflective—sprinkled with nostalgic stories, practical showbiz wisdom, and a healthy dash of food talk.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Modern Annoyances: Spam, Phones, and Email (01:35–03:24)

• Phil, Brent, and Jonny kick off with a relatable gripe about spam emails and pointless attempts to block them.
  • Notable exchange:
    • Phil: "Every day the world lies to us... We are victims of scam artists." (02:43)
    • Commentary on being showbiz veterans who still can’t escape modern digital hassles.

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2. The Making (and Saving) of Everybody Loves Raymond (03:51–15:44)

• Deep dive into the casting and creation of the famous sitcom:
  • Phil reveals stories about network pressures, standing his ground, and casting Doris Roberts.
  • Doris Roberts’s process for finding her character, and Phil’s guiding direction.
    • Phil: “Everything you do comes from love. And that gives you license to be bold.” (06:49)
  • Repeated threats to quit over compromises with CBS—standing firm led to Phil being trusted to actually run the show.
    • Phil: “There has to be one guy driving the car. And it should be the guy driving the car who knows what he’s driving.” (13:52)
  • The realities of showbiz power struggles and the rare importance of saying “no.”
    • Phil’s wife’s advice: “No is the most powerful word in town.” (14:37)
  • Ed Weinberger (MTM, Cosby) advice: Do the show you want, “because in the end they’re going to cancel you anyway.” (15:07)

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3. The Evolution (and Devolution) of TV Comedy (15:44–21:24)

• Phil discusses the fate of traditional multicam sitcoms.
  • Networks lost interest in multicam/family-centric comedies after Raymond despite enduring popularity.
  • Insight: Data and “testing” often override instinct—and rarely guarantee results.
    • Phil: “I once said to the president of CBS... have you ever tested the testing? 90% of everything you put on craps out after three weeks.” (21:03)
  • The “Friends” phenomenon and the copycat problem.
  • Corporate, non-creative control now dominates TV.

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4. Exporting Raymond and Cultural Misunderstanding (24:28–30:24)

• Phil recounts the journey of adapting Raymond for Russian TV (Everybody Loves Kostya).
  • Cultural disconnects: Russian producers want sitcom to teach high fashion; refuse realism.
    • Phil: "The costume lady thought the purpose of the sitcom was to educate Russian women on high fashion... she couldn't understand why you would put something on TV that wasn't beautiful." (29:07)
  • Audiences, laughter, and the difficulty of cross-cultural comedy.
  • Networks even reluctant to provide studio chairs for audiences.
    • Phil: "We would have to get chairs." (29:56)

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5. Finding Himself On Camera: The Travel Show Era (30:56–36:00)

• Transition from sitcoms to Somebody Feed Phil—inspired by being "himself" in Exporting Raymond.
• The art and challenge of being authentic on camera.
  • Phil: “It’s a tough thing, playing yourself in a reality setting.” (31:03)
  • Cites his parents’ naturalness on camera as proof people adjust quickly.

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6. Acting, Relaxation, and Being Present (34:05–36:00)

• Conversation detours into stagecraft, eye contact, and actor authenticity.
  • Phil: “If you focus on the other person with you… that’s everything.” (34:34)
  • The importance of relaxation and presence—applies on stage, screen, and in life.

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7. Film Buff Zone: Recent Favorites (36:09–39:03)

• Passionate discussion of recent films, standout actors, Oscar picks.
  • Praise for One Battle, Sinners, Hamnet, Being There.
  • “You remind me of Peter Sellers.” (40:15)

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8. Reinvention, Food, and Human Connection (43:03–47:56)

• The origins and evolution of Somebody Feed Phil:
  • Driven by desire for autonomy and creative control.
  • Phil: "I'm only using food and my stupid sense of humor to get you what I think is the real message: the world would be better if we all could experience a little bit of other people's experiences." (44:45)
  • Food as a universal connector—human stories, laughter, and empathy matter most.
    • “Human connection is the only thing that will save us.” (45:36)
• Tangent on Super Bowl halftime shows, creative constraints, and ‘genius’ workarounds.
  • Notable moment: creative set design with 'walking plants' instead of more trucks. (46:30)

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9. Live Shows, Books, and Audience Connection (47:22–50:21)

• Phil’s love for live Q&A events—a different, direct way to connect with fans.
  • “They come in loaded for love. Yes. And that’s very nice. Never gets old… but the business will keep you grounded.” (48:15)
• Discussion of Phil’s children’s books, particularly "Just Try It," and encouraging open-mindedness.
  • “It’s not just for kids… How many adults don’t try new food, new places, or new ideas?” (49:25)
• Social media initiative: fans send Phil to eat meals in random cities—a fun way to sustain the adventure between seasons.

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10. The Great Toast Controversy (50:34–52:17)

• Hilarious and relatable debate about diners only serving one slice of toast rather than two.
  • Brent/Jonny: "Used to be two pieces of toast!"
  • Phil: “People aren’t… simply not eating two pieces of toast. But if you come to the diner and you want two pieces of toast, I'm gonna throw in the second piece for you, no charge.” (51:59)
• Friendly ribbing about eating habits and food preferences from decades of friendship on the road and on set.

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11. Closing Thoughts: The Joy of Friends, Food, and Family (52:33–52:39)

• Warm mutual appreciation and jokes about family being "overrated."
• Phil’s wish: “I wish you guys could come eat right now.” (52:33)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Phil Rosenthal on TV execs:
  • “Why do you have the job if you can’t put on… you just said you like it! Did you ever test the testing?” (21:03)
• Phil Rosenthal on creative autonomy:
  • "Do the show you want to do because in the end they're going to cancel you anyway." (15:07)
• On cultural lessons from Russia:
  • "No, she's on television." – Costume director explaining logic for sitcom couture (29:07)
• The secret of sitcom (and life):
  • “If you focus on the other person with you… that's everything.” (34:34)
• On food and travel as a philosophy:
  • "Food is the way to do it. And then laughs are the cement." (44:56)
  • "Human connection is the only thing that will save us." (45:36)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| MM:SS | Segment Topic | |------------|---------------------------------------------------| | 01:35-03:24 | Email & Spam frustrations | | 03:51-15:44 | Everybody Loves Raymond casting and network drama | | 15:44-21:24 | The death/revival of family sitcoms & network “testing” | | 24:28-30:24 | Exporting Raymond & adaptation mishaps | | 30:56-36:00 | Becoming a travel host, on-camera authenticity | | 36:09-39:03 | Oscars & recent favorite films | | 43:03-47:56 | Somebody Feed Phil, food as connection | | 47:22-50:21 | Live events & children's books | | 50:34-52:17 | The Great Toast Debate! | | 52:33-52:39 | Warm Farewell & Family jokes |

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Final Takeaway

This episode delivers a satisfying blend of industry wisdom, creative resilience, and sparkling banter among three masters of their crafts. Phil Rosenthal’s stories underscore the timelessness—and unpredictability—of great entertainment, the lasting value of sticking to your creative guns, and the universal power of food and humor to bring people (and podcast hosts) together.

Transcript

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[Phil Rosenthal]

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[Phil Rosenthal]

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[Phil Rosenthal]

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I can follow the teams I care

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[Phil Rosenthal]

Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Christy]

Hey, it's Christy and I'm Kelly.

[Kelly]

You might remember us as the OG

[Christy]

partners in crime from Dance Moms. Well, this is Back to the Bar,

[Phil Rosenthal]

the podcast where we drag out every

[Kelly]

insane, chaotic and iconic moment from the show.

[Christy]

We're spilling the tea, calling out all

[Phil Rosenthal]

the BS and sharing stuff you definitely

[Kelly]

didn't see on tv.

[Phil Rosenthal]

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[Kelly]

as we go back to the bar.

[Phil Rosenthal]

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[Kelly]

Johnny?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah, my friend?

I have a question.

Shoot.

[Kelly]

Let me.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Let me ask you something.

[Kelly]

Yeah, let me tell you something.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Can I tell you something?

[Kelly]

I'm just going to complain about something. Do you have iPhone?

[Phil Rosenthal]

I do. I have an old 12 at the moment.

[Kelly]

Well, this is not iPhone. This is AOL's problem. Oh. Or I don't know what it is. It's my phone. I get these.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You have a Brent Mintz, AOL.

[Kelly]

I spend at least 20 minutes every morning erasing stuff I've gotten. You know, not just erasing it. Yeah, let me. Let me show you. So here it says, get Ozempic. It works. It's legal. You know, it's some scam.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Is that in your emails?

[Kelly]

Yeah. Yeah. So then I go to more, I hit more, and then I go all the way down to block contact.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Block contact.

[Kelly]

And then this box comes up and it says, you will not receive phone calls, messages, email, or facetime from blocked contacts. Hit block contact. Delete it. Trash. And I get it again the next day.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Of course you do.

[Kelly]

What is that? Why have I wasted 20 minutes?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Every day the world lies to us. I was told delete and report junk. Doesn't do anything either.

[Kelly]

No, nothing works. We are victims of scam artists.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah, but how are we not hoist on our own petard? Really? The fact that we want to get in there and get information and read the paper and look at the dish.

[Kelly]

Is there something illegal about that?

[Phil Rosenthal]

No, that's what I'm saying. But these people, they have us. They know what we're talking about. And we're in there checking our numbers on dropping names and other things, seeing if people watch. And then what's the one cardinal rule? Don't read the comments?

[Kelly]

Don't ring the bell.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I punched the comment.

[Kelly]

No, I thought that was the.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Is that really where we're gonna go?

[Kelly]

No.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Are we gonna talk about the bell?

No, no, no.

[Kelly]

Let me ask you something. Cause you know, I like to start with that. Can I ask you something?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Dropping names and other things. Where the whiskey flows and the laughter sings. Pull up a seat, Join the game of bread and johnn my show.

[Kelly]

You did have the number one show on the air for a number of years.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Who hasn't?

[Kelly]

Well, true. We never, we were never number one.

[Phil Rosenthal]

We were on 237 separate channels.

That franchise alone is so successful. You, you, you can't go anywhere without people knowing you.

[Kelly]

Well, some places, I mean, but you're

[Phil Rosenthal]

in that boat now too.

You are amazing. To wake up at this age and find yourself. Taylor Swift.

[Kelly]

You have become a star.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Hold on. First of all, Phil just compared himself to Taylor Swift.

That's right, I have.

[Kelly]

Okay. Yeah, and it's true. He, he writes. She enjoys good relationships.

[Phil Rosenthal]

She does, yeah. Oh, I see her at the Fancy Rest. I'm waiting. Taylor, if you're. If you're in town, could you come to the diner? I'll give you a waffle.

Also, Taylor, if you're. If you're available, we'd be happy to

[Kelly]

love to have you on the show.

[Phil Rosenthal]

She goes to the farmer's market in the name of the town I shouldn't share In Rhode island, where she lives.

Oh, really? That's nice.

My cousin sees her at the farm market. Apparently she's wonderfully approachable in Sweden.

Well, you can tell. I mean, she's.

She's got her shit together.

Yeah, she's. She's really great.

And you do remind me of her. I can see why you compared yourself to me.

[Kelly]

I can see that. And Monica happens to be a professional football player. Phil's wife.

[Phil Rosenthal]

There's no end to the comparison.

[Kelly]

Oh, exactly. But where do I start even. I mean, we bench. I mean, certainly Everybody Loves Raymond, one of the huge popular shows. Still, it's nice.

[Phil Rosenthal]

We just celebrated our 30th anniversary of being on the air since we premiered.

[Kelly]

And was there a special? You did a special?

[Phil Rosenthal]

We did a wonderful reunion special. That was really nice. Yeah. Oh, and they even asked for a part two. We did a part two.

[Kelly]

Really?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Oh, that's great.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

What about the great Doris Roberts?

How about her? She was incredible. We saw 100 women for that part.

I bet.

And she came in and read this scene from the pilot where I had given my parents fruit of the month. That was 100% true.

I know. I saw that in Powers.

Yeah.

True story.

She just knocked it out of the park. She was exactly what was in arguably

the most important part in the show in some ways.

Well, here's what's funny. In the first weeks that we were rehearsing and doing the pilot and stuff, she was like, I don't know, they're not gonna like me. I'm like, what do you mean? She goes, I'm always making trouble and I'm always fighting with Peter Boyle. I don't think I. She even said to me, you know, the victim wins the Emmy.

[Kelly]

Oh, that's true, actually.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And so when Peter Boyle would give her a shot, right, Like a zetz, her. Her impulse was to cry, and I would be like, oh, no, no, no, we don't have a show if that's what we do. So how do I convince her not to?

Right.

And I really had to think about this, and I came up with, I think, what was a good piece of direction. Everything you do comes from love. And that gives you license to be bold about it. I couldn't tell her, no, not only are you not the victim, you're the antagonist of the program.

Absolutely true.

You are the Tuplemeisher. You are the one stirring the pot to make trouble. You are the one everyone's afraid of. You are the one. You know, how do I. I couldn't. But everything you do comes from love. She could then internalize that and get it. And she did and was genius.

[Kelly]

Oh, God.

[Phil Rosenthal]

So she must have had more single camera or not single camera, multi camera sitcom experience.

She had every kind of experience. She was around.

Exactly.

You know, she did a lot of. I think she came out to do Lily Tomlin's TV special. So that was in front of an audience. That was comedy. She was in Elaine May movies. She had a lot of experience of every kind. Broadway experience. So to get her and Peter Boyle, by the way, two heavyweights like that. That was. That was a real coup.

And I love that you dug in and said, you know what? I'm not doing this show with another showrunner. This is my show. And fuck you. I worked for another guy on a

show that I never used language like.

But that was the gist of it.

I did quit the show twice before it was on the air. Really?

That's true.

Yeah.

[Kelly]

I didn't know that.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Oh, yeah. So the first time was I was told who I should cast as the wife. I was told that the head of CBS wanted a certain so and so. Who I knew who she was, but as soon as I heard her name, I said, oh, she's completely wrong for the show. And he said, you didn't hear me. The president of CBS wants so and so. And if you don't have so and so, you don't have a show. And I went home and I thought, I guess I don't have a show because I can't do it. It's not. I listen, I'm not an expert in every show, but I am an expert in.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say. There was that confidence, wasn't there? Terribly cocky. It was just honest truth about how you felt.

I'd been working in sitcoms for several shows. I knew other shows. I knew how they work. I saw the mistakes that were made. I saw people take all the notes and then die. So again, I don't know every show, but I know this show. Why? It's mostly about my family. And you get one shot at that, Right? So take your shot. My agent said, don't be an idiot. Don't quit. Why don't you have so and so read for you? And I said, you know what? You're right. I'm happy to be wrong and make everyone happy.

Good.

So and so won't read offer only why so and so.

[Christy]

And she.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I said, will she meet with me at least? Yes. So now I have. You know how it works. You bring three choices to the network, right? And they sit in a room, little theater, and they each read the same scene. And then the network gets to kind of pick who they like. So I had three good choices. Didn't have Patty Heaton yet because I didn't know she existed, but I had three good choices. Choice is certainly better than so and so. But the day before going in with the three ladies, I meet with so and so and I convince her to read. She was perfectly nice.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And she probably didn't even know she wasn't supposed to read. That's something agents say she doesn't read.

[Kelly]

Right?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah, I bet it is.

So very nice. So she reads and she's 10 times worse than I thought she'd be for the part. And now I gotta go. And I've been told the head of CBS is going to say, after your three ladies. What about so and so? And if you don't say yes, you. That's it. The end. So I know I'm quitting today, right? But here's what happened. The three ladies go, and right on cue, head of CBS stands up. What about so and so? And I don't know what got into me, but I said this. I love her. I loved her and everything she's been in. And I met her yesterday and I fell in love with her. I wanted to marry her. But then she read for me. And I have to be honest, it's just not what I wrote. I think she could do it, but I also think maybe we could do better. And the head of CBS said, it's just an idea. And what did I learn from that?

I like the agent saying they have

to read to be deferential.

Yes.

You're not the king of everything. He's the king of everything. Don't be a jerk. Don't be an asshole. Be reasonable.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Or maybe the king didn't say that. Maybe people spoke for the king and misspoke.

I think that's what happened. Because six weeks after that guy who made me do this, he was fired. Two weeks after that, in comes Patty Heaton. Bang. Right away, we saw 200 girls for that part. So funny, so great, so perfect in every way. Undeniable. Brought it to network. Yes. We have a dreamcast. I feel we do the pilot, people seem to like it. Tests pretty well. It didn't test as badly as that bomb, Seinfeld. Yeah, right.

And also, you're on Friday Night.

Well, no, I'm just talking about the

test before it goes on.

After we've done the pilot. They test the pilot. They see if it's even going to make it on the air. Gotcha gets on the air, I get a phone call from my agent. Mazel tov. It's going on the air. You have a show on cbs. Here you go. I said, great, let's celebrate. He goes, they just wanna know who's gonna run the show.

[Kelly]

Oh, no.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I said, what do you mean? They said, who's gonna run the show? I said, I assume me. He Said, you. You never ran a show. I said, okay, but I made the pilot, right? They like that enough to go to series. He goes, yeah. I go, so we'll do more like that. He says, you don't understand. This is now a multi million dollar production. You've never run a show before, and they're not gonna entrust you with that.

[Kelly]

They wanted so and so to run.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Well, they wanted us so and so.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Somebody else is gonna run the show. My show, and I'm gonna work for that person.

Yeah.

I said, I quit. Tell him I quit. He goes, why are you always quitting? I said, it's not always. It's just this is a major thing again. I'm writing about my family. I quit. Tell him I quit. He goes, don't get so excited. Let me talk to them. Okay. He comes back to me. He goes, good news. They're gonna let you run the show with an experienced showrunner. Co run it. But bringing in an experienced showrunner next to you. So you co. Run. Okay. Oh, if you put it that way. I say I quit because I know it will happen.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

He's still running the show. All decisions will be made by him. Just because he's had experience.

Exactly.

Okay, So I quit. He goes, don't fool around. They're going with the show and then they don't care about you. And I say, I'm sorry. And I hang up. I guess I know it won't work.

Yeah.

Yeah. The has to be one guy driving the car. And it should be the guy driving the car. Who knows what he's driving. Three days. I am miserable. My wife is like, why? You said, I'm. They're doing that show without me. They said, he. She says, your show? I said, yeah. And three days go by, and on the third day, I get a phone call. They're gonna let you run the show. I said, wow, okay. Why? He liked how you handled that thing with so and so.

[Kelly]

Ah, so the very thing that you had.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes. I tell. I love telling the story because I think it's a good lesson.

[Kelly]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Phil Rosenthal]

To have the gumption to say it.

Yes.

To believe it with. With the truth. And also, my wife has told me many times, no is the most powerful world word in town.

The best advice I ever got was from an old showrunner named Ed Weinberger. He created the Mary Tyler Moore co.

[Kelly]

Creators.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Hold on.

Yes, go ahead.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And the Mary Tyler Moore show and the Cosby show and of the 80s. We can't say his name anymore, but okay. That Was undeniable. That show.

[Kelly]

Yeah, Rhoda, that. Did he do all of those? Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Okay. So I asked him for advice. When I'm writing a pilot, he says, do the show you want to do because in the end they're going to cancel you anyway. And he's right.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I've seen so many people since then even.

Yeah.

They want to get on the air so badly, they take all the notes, compromise. They compromise themselves out of existence. Because what happens most of the time the show doesn't get on and you can't say to them, it stinks now because of your notes. Because 50 people gave notes and they contradicted and they listen. I'm now doing a food and travel show because I couldn't take it anymore, the way the business went.

[Kelly]

You would think having done Raymond, they owed you more shows. Absolutely. Not even owed. They were just. It's a no brainer. He brought us this giant hit for years and years.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

And he now has experience.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Didn't matter. The business changed in the nine years that we were doing Raymond. So that when the time I graduated, they didn't want that type of show anymore. Even though it was proven right. They felt like it was passe already. In fact, the whole genre, four camera sitcom, which I happen to love.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You've done a little.

[Kelly]

Little.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Isn't it fun?

[Kelly]

I love it.

[Phil Rosenthal]

It's the best acting job. Come on, two weeks on, one week off.

You're done in five days and you have bankers hours pretty much coming at 10 o'.

Clock.

Well, I mean, it's a dream job. But the reason it is is because it's like theater.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

So you write it, rehearse it, present it as a play.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And yet you have the flexibility, multiple takes, multiple camera angles, editing, edit while you're shooting and permanence of film.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

So it's this perfect marriage of theater and film.

Yes.

Nobody cares, nobody wants it.

[Kelly]

I have a feeling it's gonna come back.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I do too. Because the greatest hits in television.

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Have always been that when the one that hits. But here's the thing. After Raymond, when do you think the next hit family sitcom was?

[Kelly]

After Raymond?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Kelly]

I don't know.

[Phil Rosenthal]

The next year. No, five years till the next one. Modern Family. And it wasn't for camera.

It wasn't?

[Kelly]

No, that was film.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Single camera. Film and modern film. It had to be that. It had to be single camera thing. Not my wheelhouse. I do what I do. I know what I know. They would tell me. Yeah, listen, we like you Just be more hip and edgy. And I'm like, well, what they really wanted was Friends.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And the only thing I always say, the only thing that was wrong with Friends were all the shows that came after that tried to imitate it. Friends was the anomaly where the cute, beautiful people were also funny. Yeah, that doesn't happen every day. You don't go to the beautiful people for comedy. We use them for other things.

[Kelly]

The cute, beautiful people now are cop shows.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Are they?

[Kelly]

Yeah, like any of the Chicago shows, you know, the Chicago Police and fire and all that. They're all beautiful. You're like, yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Why people like that?

[Kelly]

Yeah, people like that.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I like it. Of course. Yeah, of course.

But the networks are in trouble, are they not?

Yes, everyone's in trouble. Yeah. Have you read the news?

[Kelly]

Oh, yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Today they're only joy. Oh, boy.

[Kelly]

But so anyway, you figured out how to then take the next step in your career, which was to have autonomy and do a show you wanted to do.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes, because I struck out at sitcoms. I thought, which is crazy. I would naturally think after Raymond that my purpose in life was to make sitcoms. Nobody wanted them. I even had the spin off of Raymond ready with the brother. Yeah, they didn't want it.

[Kelly]

That's insane.

[Phil Rosenthal]

They said, you can do a pilot. I said, a pilot. That series is going to be Robert and Amy, which is Monica and her family that we had had on the show. Fred Willard, Georgia Engel and Chris Elliott.

Please.

They'd been on. Yes. Ding, ding, ding. They'd been on 30 times at least. Proven. You know what they said, we'll give you a pilot, but we don't really want shows like this because everyone in that cast is over 40.

[Kelly]

Well, how do they answer for the fact that the syndication numbers are so huge people are still watching it in droves? You know, they wouldn't be doing that if people didn't enjoy it.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You know, I don't. Do you understand the business? You understand the business. No, I don't understand it. I do know that everything is money driven and they look at their data. I once said to the president of cbs, he was talking about testing. He was wondering what shows to put on his schedule. And I was helping with. I would. I would help write and direct his speech at Carnegie hall for the upfronts.

[Kelly]

Right, okay.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Because he has to make a speech. And he was talking about the show that was going to go on, and he actually asked my opinion and I didn't want to give it because that's too much responsibility. I Don't even be responsible for that. That's 150 people who are either going to work or not work. And I didn't want to give an answer. He goes, I'm asking everybody, okay, if you say it like that. Okay, so my opinion. I said, yeah, I like this. I don't like that one. He goes, how did they. How did the one he doesn't like, how did it test? And they look at the numbers. Tested very well. And the one you do like. I like it. He goes, I like it too. I go, yeah. So isn't that enough? He goes, how to test? And they go, a little less than the one you don't like. And he goes like he didn't know what to do. Wow. And I'm like, come on. He goes, what? I go, what do you have the job if you can't put on. You just said, you like it. Why can't you? I said, by the way, no offense to the m. The testing man, but did you ever test the testing?

[Kelly]

Yeah, exactly. What do you mean?

[Phil Rosenthal]

I said, well, 90% of everything you put on craps out after three weeks, and you wouldn't put it on if it didn't test well. So what does the testing mean? I know what it means. Ass covering.

Yeah.

I didn't put it on with my opinion.

The numbers said.

The numbers said. You can't blame me. That's Hollywood in a nutshell.

[Kelly]

Wow.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And now it's run by corporations and not even creatives.

And nobody watches TV the way they do in testing, which is focused with a. You know what I'm saying? Oh, sure. With a meter.

[Kelly]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Turn it to the right if you like something. Turn it to the left if you don't. Oh, here comes a guy. Oh, I've seen him on TV before. Like it. This line. That's a setup line to the joke. That's not the funny line. Don't like it. Oh, now the joke. I like it. So then you get notes back from the testing, cut the straight lines, cut the setups to the jokes. I said, do you understand how people work?

[Kelly]

Yeah. Well, I think I had an experience with that show. That head of that network.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

I was on a show that got the best, best reviews of the season.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

We had. I think we were somewhere into episode 11. It was a very creative show, very clever. And the.

[Phil Rosenthal]

The.

[Kelly]

The showrunner went to meet with the network to see what are you going to do with the next 12 shows.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Told them everything. He came back. He said they loved every idea I had for the next 12 shows. We're gold. And we were cancelled the next day. And I'm told the reason we were cancelled was that the. The head of the network was watching television, getting dressed to go out, and the show was on his tv. And he said, what's this? And his wife said, well, that's your show. You greenlit this show. And he goes, it was a sci fi show. He said, I hate sci fi. Get that off the air. And. And we were gone the next day.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Well, that's crazy.

[Kelly]

Well, and that's why they call it television. Television. Exactly.

[Phil Rosenthal]

But it's all better now.

Is it?

No. Your life is for me. Yeah.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I'm the luckiest guy you're ever going to have on this show.

[Kelly]

But it took a little while, Phil, just a little while to. To nail that down.

[Phil Rosenthal]

10 years. 10 years from the time Raymond ended to the time I got onto PBS with the travel show. PBS was my first stop on the travel show was 10 years.

Did you pitch a lot of places that end up on PBS or did you go to.

I pitched to every single network. PBS was actually my first choice of where to go. But my agent said, there's no money at pbs.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Why would you think. Why would you think of pbs? I said, because on pbs I might be hip and edgy.

[Kelly]

Yeah, that's right. But you did exporting Raymond before I did. Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

That was a little bit of a transition.

That was.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

The light. Especially inside baseball. It was so inside baseball for anybody who cared about the business or how it was funny. It was informative, it was absurd, it was scary.

[Kelly]

Yeah. And. And subsequently even scarier. Right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I mean, well, you can't go back. Can't go now.

[Kelly]

Right?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Couldn't do it now.

[Kelly]

No, exactly.

[Phil Rosenthal]

People who don't know the exporting Raymond is the story of how the Russians called me. Right after Raymond was over, the Russians called and asked if I would help them translate my sitcom into Everybody Loves Kostya, Everybody Loves Kusha. And I said I would happily do it if we could film the process, because I saw potential there. And they said, okay, yeah.

[Kelly]

And they sent you over with.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And then they did not listen to one word I said.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

The movie is about, you know, how the. No. You get at home is the same. No. All over the world sometimes. Everyone's the same. They're different. But underneath, all the same.

[Kelly]

The head of comedy was a particularly interesting.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Fantastic. He was a laser beam technician. And I said, why is the head of comedy from laser beams? And they Said both new technologies, comedy and laser beams. Yes. For them, they never had a sitcom before. The Nanny was their first sitcom. An adaptation of the Nanny was their first, and that hit. And so they wanted more American sitcoms.

They didn't read Chekhov, obviously.

Yeah. Golden Girls didn't work over there because the Russians couldn't relate to it. And the reason was because there is no nice, warm place for old ladies to go.

[Kelly]

I mean, I can remember you sitting with this guy and he never cracked a smile once.

[Phil Rosenthal]

But I have to be honest, I've been at network meetings where the head of comedy does not crack a smile.

[Kelly]

Right, Exactly, Exactly.

[Phil Rosenthal]

They didn't balk at you shooting the documentary side of it. Did they not know that you were gonna own all that footage of the process?

They were okay with it. But once we were outside and police came over and said, you. You cannot point the camera that way. Why? This is the Kremlin. Okay. I mean, it's just outside of the. You cannot point camera that way. Okay.

Unnerved.

Whatever you say.

[Kelly]

Yes. But then you had a. You had a driver that had an interesting tale, too. Right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

He had been a soldier in Afghanistan.

[Kelly]

And in the film, you have a really great relationship with him.

[Phil Rosenthal]

He had told me his story, and it was very touching and very sad because he had to actually. He actually killed somebody and he regretted it for the rest of his life. He had studied in school and loved oceanography and loved seashells in particular, and wanted to study seashells. I mean, so beautiful and sensitive. And

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[Phil Rosenthal]

He had to go to war that's I mean, it was profound.

[Kelly]

It was a great documentary.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Thank you.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Loved it.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Thank you.

I did, too.

I loved it. Thank you. Thank you. The best part was the costume lady. She thought that the purpose of the sitcom was to educate Russian women on high fashion. And so she would have the wife character in beautiful ball gowns around the house. I said, it's not the opposite of the characteristic. And she goes, she's on television. And I said, okay, but she's vacuuming the house in this scene. It doesn't make sense. Would you wear something like that to clean up around your house? She said, of course not. I said, okay, that's what I'm going for. I'm going for. It doesn't have to be relatable to America. I want it to be relatable to you, to Russian people watching. So she should wear what you would wear? No, no, she's on television. I said, okay, but she doesn't know she's on television.

Yeah. Did that land?

No.

[Kelly]

Wow.

[Phil Rosenthal]

She honestly couldn't understand why you would put something on TV that wasn't beautiful. And their style of comedy was also very over the top.

[Kelly]

Oh, boy.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And I was trying for a certain realism.

[Kelly]

Well, I mean, Ray. Yeah. Did you get any Railer? Railer than real?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah, More realer than Ray.

[Kelly]

And so these guys were, like, just ridiculous. Like borsch belt.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah. Hilarious. Huge. Hilariously terrible. But to us, to them, they accepted it. But I did notice when they're taping, and one of the things I asked for was an audience, of course. And they said, we don't use audience. I said, why not? It really livens it up. He goes, we would have to get chairs.

[Kelly]

That is. They don't have those in Russia, I'm told. Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Who gets the thing is hard to get.

Did you get an audience?

10 people on the next soundstage watching on a monitor. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no. Understand, the whole purpose is to have laughs for the. For the actors. We don't want laughs. Why not? We'll mess with the sound.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

So every single thing was a battle. It's my family's favorite movie because of how much I suffered.

[Kelly]

Yeah, yeah. I remember you in a. Like a stairwell.

[Phil Rosenthal]

There was a fluorescent light that was buzzing, and it's very dark, except for the one fluorescent light. So it's actually spooky. Yeah. And I said, well, listen, listen. You can hear the cancer.

[Kelly]

Exactly. Great line.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Thank you. That was a good transition for me from. I was still doing my job as a writer.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

But here I am on camera.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

So that. That I could show that to people when I had the travel show idea.

[Kelly]

It's a tough thing, playing yourself in a reality setting.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Kelly]

We're doing it right now, in a sense.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You're very good at it, both of you. Well, I believe you are you.

[Kelly]

Yeah, yeah. You know, it's not me.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You're an actor, though.

But you wanted to be an actor in the. I love that story where he said, I was fucking star in high school. I was a star in college. I went to New York.

Nobody called that. What.

Nobody told New York.

Nobody told New York what a big star I was in high school.

[Kelly]

Well, you did a show in New York, though, that got some real traction. Yes. Is this Tony and Tina's Wedding?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Kelly]

Right. Ran for years.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Ran for years. I didn't see a dime from it.

No kidding.

I got completely screwed. So if it's okay with you, I'd like to spend the rest of the podcast because. Complaining about.

[Kelly]

Okay, yeah, good idea. Can you name names?

[Phil Rosenthal]

No.

No dropping names there.

No.

[Kelly]

Okay. Wasn't the guy who ran cbs, was it? No. Okay.

[Phil Rosenthal]

No, he came over. He was on his team by the end. He respected your.

[Kelly]

Your.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Your chutzpah.

If you like hits.

[Kelly]

Yeah. So. But anyway, what I was getting at was when you play yourself.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

And particularly you've done so many episodes now.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

I mean, I know you've. Through time, you've gotten as comfortable as you can possibly be being yourself. Right on camera.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Right.

[Kelly]

You're like the. The women on, you know, Beverly Hills Housewives.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah, exactly like them, you know.

[Kelly]

No, but I see, I have this theory that they are the greatest talents in actresses and actors in the world. Because they have a camera right here.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Like you do at all times. And they weep and they scream and they have fights and they. They just, you know, agonize and all that. And they seem completely unaware that there's.

[Phil Rosenthal]

It's a phenomenon. And I think I know what it is. I think that you forget that it's. You get used to it quickly and you forget it's there.

[Kelly]

It gotta be.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You know, if we're. If we're really talking.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

As I believe we are, we're not thinking about this. No, we're really right. I mean.

Well, thankfully, we're not.

It's in the back of your mind that it's there, but you're not nervous about it, and you're not. I'll give you a great example in exporting Raymond. I went to My parents house to film some stuff with them because. For two reasons. I wanted the audience to see where the parents on Raymond came from and what the whole thing is based on. And my parents had been to Russia, so I could ask them about Russia before I go. And I thought that would be useful. And they come in with big cameras. Not like these little ones, big ones, men with thing. They strap a microphone to my mother, running it up the front of her blouse. Oh, my. She's like my father. I gotta wear a battery on my ass. What is this? And the guy, the boom mic guy comes in with a big pole in their house.

Yeah.

I'm not kidding you. Within five minutes, they're fighting as if nobody's there. That's great, Max. I told you not to put that there. Why?

[Kelly]

There's a relationship. A thin relationship, though, to an audience when you're on stage. Because you do forget, you know they're there.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Kelly]

I mean, unless it's comedy and you hear them.

[Phil Rosenthal]

But if you're doing your job, you're not thinking about them.

[Kelly]

Right. You're focused on.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You're supposed to be.

[Kelly]

Yeah, exactly.

[Phil Rosenthal]

So I'm the person I'm supposed to be.

[Kelly]

Right, right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

It really is that simple.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And I don't have to tell you, you're a great actor. You know that if you focus on the other person with you.

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Phil Rosenthal]

That's everything.

[Kelly]

That's it.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And then you are just naturally you.

[Kelly]

Exactly. Right. Exactly. That is the secret of if you want to be an actor. Just focusing.

[Phil Rosenthal]

If you're lucky enough to be with somebody who listens.

Yes.

[Kelly]

Actively. Right now.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes. But even if you don't, I'm looking at you look at an actor where

the actor does this. We'd both done this. The actor looks right there at your forehead instead of into your eyes.

Oh, yeah. What's that about?

That's how either nervous or uncomfortable or.

Oh, sure.

Yeah. It's happened. I've seen it half a dozen times. And I'm looking to get into their. I try to get into the eyeliner. I can make eye contact if I want.

I could never understand in theater school at Hofstra University, when you take acting class, why they're so focused on relaxation exercises. And it turns out that's so important. Because our nerves are what make us terrible actors. Because we're so nervous and we think we have to do things and we think we have to. And that's what I'm looking at. Euphoria. Because I'm so in my head that I have to look at your head.

I know. It's so good. It's so true.

But I never understood it because I guess I wasn't that nervous.

But that's a gift, I think, to not be. I mean, we get less nervous because we're old now. But I think if you're young and you can. And you're not nervous, you are already ahead of the game.

That's it.

Yeah.

You see, when you see little kids who are just so natural.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Kid in adolescence.

Come on.

The kid in adolescence.

I mean, that was extraordinary.

[Kelly]

Have you seen Hamnet? The kid in Hamnet.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Amazing.

[Kelly]

Unbelievable.

[Phil Rosenthal]

That's too much for me, that movie.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I can't take it.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I mean, how much of a kid screaming in agony, his mother's arms dying as she screams in agony? Can I take.

[Kelly]

You have to pay for that.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Nope. I didn't blow the movie.

[Kelly]

No. But that boy is really, really good.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And do you know that was his older brother at the end, who plays.

That's.

[Kelly]

That's a wonderful touch. They, they. That's added to it. Yeah. Great.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And she is. She's my favorite actor. She is saying right now she's gonna win.

You know what?

[Kelly]

I kind of. I mean, I agree with you.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Have you seen Begonia?

She was great, too. Well, she's always great.

She really is. Always great.

[Kelly]

And I know you have. If I had legs, I'd kick.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You didn't see it.

[Kelly]

Oh, she's really.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Oh, I'll bet she's good. She's terrific too.

[Kelly]

She could do anything.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah. And I didn't see that yet.

[Kelly]

She's playing American.

[Phil Rosenthal]

But best picture. What do you think?

[Kelly]

One battle.

[Phil Rosenthal]

One battle.

Yeah, me too.

[Kelly]

I. I think twice.

[Phil Rosenthal]

It is the best picture, I got to tell you. Have you seen it twice, Jackson?

[Kelly]

Seen it four times.

[Phil Rosenthal]

He's smart. If you see it again, you will love it even more. Because the first time you see it, it's like this crazy roller coaster.

[Kelly]

What the hell, right?

[Phil Rosenthal]

You know, you saw something great, but when you see it again, you can't believe the genius. Because you know what you start to really marvel at the construction of the

move and the shot making, the shot making of the actors.

It's incredible.

[Kelly]

It's really incredible.

[Phil Rosenthal]

This.

And the guys loosened the nuts on the. On the head of the camera. Pretty great on take two. Said, this isn't rattly enough.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And he went like old school. He got a screwdriver.

Yeah.

I mean, it's spectacular.

[Kelly]

Great movie.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Best supporting. It's hard to Say they're both so great in different ways.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I would give it to Sean Penn.

[Kelly]

I think Sean Penn is remarkable in it.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You got a couple of modelas though, going on the other guy.

[Kelly]

You're going with Benicio. I think he's great in it.

[Phil Rosenthal]

He is.

[Kelly]

But Sean is such a brave performance.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I mean, that's like. Like from Dr. Strangelove.

[Kelly]

It really.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah. That's a good comparison.

[Kelly]

Really. And I don't think Leo's ever been.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Wait a minute. What about.

I agree.

What about the bell?

Oh, yeah. I mean, sleeping on the bell. Yeah.

[Kelly]

Maybe Wolf of Wall street, but yeah. He's so remarkable in this film. Leo, it's like a giant.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I've never liked him more.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

But I also. I never liked Timothy Chalamet more than in that movie.

[Kelly]

I haven't seen it yet.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I haven't seen it either.

[Kelly]

But I'm going to like supreme there. Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

The cast is great. I don't think the movie is as good as one battle after another.

[Kelly]

I like Sinners too, a lot.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I loved Sinners.

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Very inventive movie.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

Delroy Lindo.

[Kelly]

Yeah. I love.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I love watching him.

[Kelly]

I was so glad he got nominated. I thought he was great.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Was he on our show?

[Kelly]

Huh?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Was he ever on our show?

[Kelly]

This show?

[Phil Rosenthal]

No, but Taylor.

[Kelly]

By the way, it's only back to

[Phil Rosenthal]

Taylor if you're still watching. The invitation still stands.

[Kelly]

Yeah. And maybe Delroy will come with you. Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

By the way, her documentary, the documentary series that just came out about her last tour is really interesting. Yeah.

[Kelly]

I mean, I want to talk about the travel show a little more, but does Richard, by the way, does he, your brother, does he operate the camera or does he just tell people what to do?

[Phil Rosenthal]

He doesn't do anything. He's just a pain in the ass.

[Kelly]

Yeah, yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

No, he's the producer. If the show is any good at all, I give him full credit.

[Kelly]

Yeah. I like Richard. I saw Richard recently.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah. Oh, that's nice. He's going to be out here in a week or so.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Very good guy. So is his wife.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes. Karen.

[Kelly]

Karen. Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Doesn't Richard get a little something?

[Kelly]

Yeah, why not?

[Phil Rosenthal]

That was too much.

[Kelly]

What I want to ask you, Phil, before we talk even more about the show is. So Phil has this thing where he has a screening room in his house that's like sort of world class.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Do it right?

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

If you're going to do it.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Almost every week that I'm here. Yeah. That you're here.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

He screens a movie and The. Sometimes an old film. I think this week is an older film.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Being there.

[Kelly]

Being there. Love being there. I'd like to do it again.

[Phil Rosenthal]

That's an actor who you remind me of.

[Kelly]

I love Peter Sellers, by the way.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You remind me of Peter Sellers.

Wouldn't it work on stage?

[Kelly]

I think it very well could.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Oh, that's a good idea.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

So maybe it's a musical.

[Kelly]

You heard your musical. That's a really good idea. I think it's a musical.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You heard it here first.

[Kelly]

All right. Don't steal that idea. We're gonna.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Okay. So you can be funny. I've seen you.

[Kelly]

Yeah. I could tell a joke.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Remember we did a little short where you played the doctor, Trump's doctor. We did this in 2016.

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Thinking it would be so funny and help the cause. And it didn't work.

[Kelly]

It didn't work. It was a Comedy Central thing. We did that where I was the character from Independence Day.

[Phil Rosenthal]

As. As Trump's.

[Kelly]

As Trump.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Remember, Trump had this doctor who verified

that he was healthy.

He was in perfect condition.

[Kelly]

Exactly.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Did he go with that character?

[Kelly]

Hair.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Crazy white hair.

[Kelly]

It was a. It was the same wig. That was a $10,000 wig. We use like a $3 wig. But it was.

[Phil Rosenthal]

But we. We looked at this and we said, he reminds me of. Yeah, Brent's character in Independence Day. And so we got Brent to do the doctor.

Did you ever see Brent's previous series called Fresh Hell?

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[Kelly]

my web series.

[Phil Rosenthal]

It's a web series?

Oh, no, I haven't seen it yet.

[Kelly]

Oh, it's hysterical.

[Phil Rosenthal]

He's an actor, teacher who has been. Something bad happened in his past.

[Kelly]

Yeah. We call it the Incident.

[Phil Rosenthal]

The Incident.

[Kelly]

But we never say what it was.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Teaching porn stars how to act.

[Kelly]

It was way ahead of its time because basically I was Me too'd out of the business 10 years before me Too happened. But we didn't know exactly what it was I supposedly died. The Incident.

[Phil Rosenthal]

People still see this?

[Kelly]

Yeah, it's still on YouTube. Oh, great. I really.

[Phil Rosenthal]

YouTube is the future, man.

This is on YouTube.

[Kelly]

This is on YouTube right now. So not to belabor this, Phil, but when you let me belabor it. So you do the series. You traveled all over the world.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

How long do you stay in each town?

[Phil Rosenthal]

A week.

[Kelly]

You stay a week?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

So do you shoot every day or do you have. You don't have days where you go, okay, today we're just gonna have fun? We're not gonna.

[Phil Rosenthal]

No, no. Sometimes I get a little time while they're doing B roll, and so that's like a vacation day for me.

So you travel with your family?

Sometimes I bring them. They. I, I would bring them every show. I love traveling with them. We have such a good time. But they have this annoying thing called their own lives.

Exactly.

So I can't. They're not always available. But whenever I can.

But you and your brother.

Well, my brother, yeah.

[Kelly]

He's the producer.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And you stay nice. Yeah, yeah, I'd see. This sounds like the best job.

[Kelly]

Oh, it's the best job ever. I remember in your second season on pbs.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

When you were saying, I could do this the rest of my life. And in fact, you are. It's true. You know, and I will.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I mean, I never know if we're going to get picked up again, but we're Netflix's longest running show.

Saturday get eight season. Networks. Networks. Netflix used to say, no matter how good the show is, three seasons all we need. Yeah.

I made them an offer they couldn't refuse.

Good.

Not beneficial to me other than doing my dream job. But at any moment they could say, that's enough with this guy already.

Yeah, but they won't.

[Kelly]

When the show first started, it was basically you were going to different restaurants and tasting the food. And that was the beginning. And it's evolved from there now. I mean, you have experiences as well as food. I mean, it's still a food based show.

[Phil Rosenthal]

It is.

But I'm only using food in my stupid sense of humor to get you what I think is the real message, which is, I think the world would be better if we all could experience a Little bit of other people's experiences right over.

Food is a way to do it.

Food is the great thing to do.

[Kelly]

That's right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And then. Laughs of the cement.

Yeah.

So I'm using what I know about making sitcoms, but it's in the service of everything else I love doing in life. Food, family, friends, travel. Laughs.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

That's how I think I'd like to live the rest of my life. So I will find a way. Whether Netflix is with me or not, I will find a way to keep doing this. Because now that I get feedback from people that it means something to them to see, especially today, the phrase I

was just about to use. Could it be more prescient and more important?

Human connection is the only thing that will save us.

[Kelly]

Well, yep. That bad bunny was talking about that a little bit the other day.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I can't tell you how great that was. How Absolutely. I mean, I don't have to tell you how great it was. You saw how great it was. Only an idiot would have a problem with that.

It couldn't have been more successful at every level.

I mean, I wept tears of joy watching it. And of course, because of the context that it set in, which is the world today, it meant even more. And it was so beautifully done. And he was so great. And I don't really know his music, I admit it. And. Do I speak Spanish? No. Did it mean anything to me that I didn't know? Because you got everything you were supposed to get.

Exactly. From the moment they had to walk. The people.

I mean, just for the trees coming out as people. How great is that?

That was great.

You know about the trees. Do you know why people were.

The trucks. The trucks would leave a mark.

They only have. No. They only get 25 trucks worth of sets to bring out. They've timed it down to the second. You have seven minutes to build that world at every halftime show. So any more than 25 trucks and we can't do it.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

So how did they get it that. All the set that they needed, they had the plants as costumes for people who could just walk out without trucks.

[Kelly]

Wow.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Genius.

Genius.

And the way it was shot was like. It was phenomenal.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And all the cameos and the Lady Gaga and Ricky Martin. It was all great. I've watched now, like, four times. I love it. So much better than the game.

[Kelly]

Absolutely.

[Phil Rosenthal]

100%.

Well, that's sports.

Yeah.

[Kelly]

You also, Phil. You do now. You do live appearances.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I do.

[Kelly]

We kind of understand that because we relate to it. Just because of the Conventions. We do. We do panels at the conventions like this.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Oh, do we?

[Kelly]

We do Q and A with the audience.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Isn't it fun? The. Honestly, I love that as much as doing.

[Kelly]

Oh, yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

The travel show, because. Why? You're connecting with the people. And half my show is Q and A, and it couldn't be more fun. I get everyone from toddlers to dead people.

[Kelly]

The only. The only thing about it that I think is dangerous is that so often you walk off the stage after the experience thinking you may be one of the greatest comedians that ever lived.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Oh, because of the captain.

[Kelly]

No matter what you say, they love you. You know, I mean, they come in with so much love.

[Phil Rosenthal]

They come in loaded for love. Yes. And that's very nice. It never, never gets old. It never gets old, but it never. I don't let it go to my head that much either, because I understand. Yes, they like the show, but the business will keep you grounded.

[Kelly]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And when you go home, by the way, that keeps you grounded. They don't come with the. The, oh, my God, he's here. That. I never get that in my house.

No. Nor should you.

[Kelly]

You got a book, you and Lily.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Second book that we wrote. She said to me years, few years ago, you're good with the kids on the show and the kids like you, so why don't you do a kids book? And I right away said, yeah, if you do it with me as a. As a way to do something, Lily. So we did, and it became successful. It's called Just Try it, the first one, it's about a dad who eats everything and his little girl who won't try anything. So it's called Just Try It. And people have told me it's helped them with their kids, getting them to try new foods. But listen, it's not just for kids.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

How many drugs don't try new food or new place or new ideas.

[Kelly]

That's right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And so that did well. And now we have signed a deal with Simon Schuster to do a few books. And this is now the second one. And so it's just try it someplace new. Getting the kid to take a tiny step out of their comfort zone and, you know, spend the weekend with her dad at grandma's house. So that's a sweet story.

[Kelly]

You have this new deal on, I've seen on Instagram, where I don't know where else it might be, but where you will. They ask people to write in, say, I'll go wherever you tell me to go.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Kelly]

Eat a Meal.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Is that here in LA or is that.

[Phil Rosenthal]

It could be anywhere. And if I'm in that town, I'll do it.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Why not? Yeah.

[Kelly]

That sounds. I mean, just no brainer.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Phone. And. And so it keeps. It keeps the.

[Kelly]

The.

[Phil Rosenthal]

The franchise alive in between seasons.

[Kelly]

Yeah. No kidding.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah. Is that good enough for you?

[Kelly]

We have squeezed every.

[Phil Rosenthal]

We. What about the waffle?

You gotta come. You gotta have it.

We drop your name.

Don't have to come with me.

Okay.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

It's only fun for me if you come with me.

God, you're a delight. What a treat.

[Kelly]

I don't know how you do this at the restaurant, but it seems to be a new trend in breakfast in diners and restaurants that I go to for breakfast. Happened to me this morning, actually. I won't say where I was, but it was very disappointing. Pointing. And that is when you order eggs. Comes with toast, comes with potatoes, whatever. Yeah. The. The toast comes and it's one piece of toast.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Kelly]

Used to be two pieces of toast.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes. You know what we found? We used to. When as soon as we opened, we had two pieces of toast. Guess what? Nobody eats two pieces. That's what they said.

[Kelly]

Because I complained and they said, it's not about money, it's about waste. We don't want to waste.

[Phil Rosenthal]

It's exactly right.

[Kelly]

Yeah. But, you know, what have I paid for it? The one that I wasted.

[Phil Rosenthal]

We're not charging people for toast they

[Kelly]

don't eat, but it becomes part of the package.

[Phil Rosenthal]

It used to be, but people aren't. They're simply not eating two pieces of toast.

[Kelly]

I do. I like one piece with butter and one piece with butter and jelly.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah. I've seen you do it.

Yeah. You sound like a pain in the ass.

[Kelly]

I do.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Have you eaten a lot with him?

[Kelly]

You'll see. I'm coming again.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And there's a bunch of stuff he doesn't eat.

You're telling me. I travel with him 40 years.

[Kelly]

We travel together. If you watch the show, Phil will eat anything.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I know.

[Kelly]

Phil will eat both. If it's cooked. If it's seasoned.

[Phil Rosenthal]

If it's cooked.

Kind of sauce.

[Kelly]

Exactly.

[Phil Rosenthal]

But if you come to the diner and you want two pieces of toast, I'm gonna throw in the second piece for you, no charge.

[Kelly]

All right. All right. Because nowadays I go in, I order, and then I say, and I'd like an extra order of toast, which means one. One more piece. Basically.

[Phil Rosenthal]

That's kind of it.

[Kelly]

Yeah. All right. Understand?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Phil.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Okay. Now you get to off your chest.

You know, put your PE back.

[Kelly]

Putting my PE back into my. Thank you, Phil. Thanks for sorting that out, Phil. You're the best buddy. Thank you so much for being here.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I wish you guys could come eat right now.

[Kelly]

I do too. I do too.

[Phil Rosenthal]

But you have family.

[Kelly]

I got.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah. Overrated.

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[Phil Rosenthal]

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Kelly]

Hey guys.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Welcome to Giggly Squad, a place where

[Christy]

we make fun of everything, but most importantly ourselves.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I'm Paige Desorbo. I'm Hannah Burner.

[Kelly]

Welcome to the squad.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Giggly Squad started on Summer House when

[Christy]

we were giggling during an inappropriate time.

[Phil Rosenthal]

But of course, we can't be managed, so we decided to start this podcast to continue giggling. We will make fun of pop culture news.

[Christy]

We're watching Fashion Trends pep talks where

[Phil Rosenthal]

we give advice, mental health moments and games and guests.

[Christy]

Listen to Giggly Squad on Acast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.