← Dufresne Ministries Podcast
Dufresne Ministries Podcast
Honoring God's Voice | Debra Simons | Holy Ghost Meetings 2025 | Wednesday AM
01:06:59
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Hi, I'm Nancy Dufresne. Welcome to our podcast channel. We know you'll be blessed by today's message.
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Well, it's an honor to be here. And I tell you what, the services have been amazing. And I'll tell you, I'm thankful to be here hearing what we're hearing, because I believe it's so necessary for what God has for us going forward. I want to share something with you. It was last Thursday. I was in service. We have Thursday night service. I was in service. And, you know, as our custom is, when we receive the offering, we have somebody do a special song, you know, while we're taking up the offering. And this time it was a gal doing a song, really, that we all know. And she sang this one line of the song, and it just changed the service for me. It changed my message. The minute that she said this line, God began to just flood me with examples to give the congregation. And the line was, I love his voice. And God began to just remind me of all the times that he spoke to me and that I followed that leading. And it worked out, because if God says it and you follow it the way he says it, it's going to work out. And, you know, I think that it's so important, and this is what I have believed for, for my children, and what I'm believing for, for my grandchildren, is that they come to desire and to recognize and to follow the voice of God accurately. And, of course, you know, that means that, you know, we submit ourselves to the whole system of God because there's a whole system, but maturity ends up with recognizing his voice. But you don't recognize his voice if you never desire it. You first have to desire to hear God for yourself. And then, of course, you've got to prove that out, because you hear God by faith, and then you've got to prove it out. I love what Dr. Frank used to tell us. He said, if you followed a voice and it didn't work out well, just don't follow that voice again, it was the wrong voice. And so I began to talk to them about loving his voice, appreciating that he takes the time to speak to us and guides us, leads us, and our lives are fuller because of it. But it's like we have to appreciate or honor the voice of God. I remember Pastor Nancy used to tell us that when God speaks to you, it should mean something to you and you should be expecting him to speak to you. And she used to say, I keep a note paper and a pen Right next to my nightstand in case God says something to me at night. It's important enough that I need to get up and write it so I don't forget it. Because when it means something to you, you do something with it. And so let me give you a few scriptures before I get going and before I don't give the scriptures, because I just start get. I just wind it up. Psalms 29. 4. It said, the voice of the Lord is powerful. The voice of the Lord is full of Majesty. Psalms 85, 85. 8. I will hear what God the Lord will speak, for he will speak peace unto his people and to his saints. I will hear what the Lord God will speak. Psalms 91, 91, and 15. It says, he shall call upon me, and I will answer him. We can call upon God, and God promises that he will answer. He shall call upon me, and I will answer him. I will be with him in trouble. I will deliver him and honor him with long life will I satisfy him and show him my salvation. He shall call upon me and I will answer. What is that telling us? When we call upon God, we should expect an answer. Too many times in pastoring, you find that people get a measure of the Word and their prayer life is only one way going up. But you don't hear in their conversation that they had a conversation with God. And you have to teach people that they can have conversations with God. How many of the books that Brother Hagin had written that really he shared with us his conversations with God. And we became. We came to know how God would speak by the example that he gave us. You know, we learned some of the things that he would say to us and deal with us about because of the experience of someone else that hurt. God obeyed and had fruit in that. I tell people, listen, if you, you know, if you're going to be under someone, make sure that they've got fruit. Make sure that you know what they're saying. God says there's some fruit to it. Amen. Psalms 95. Let's go to Psalms 95, Verse 7. But I'm going to go all the way down to the latter part of it. He says, today, if you will hear his voice today, if. If you have a choice whether to hear God's voice or. But he wants you to hear his voice. And so his voice should be important to you as you develop in the things of God. I remember when I first got saved. I'm gonna start sharing some testimonies with you. When I first got saved, obviously many of you Know, my testimony, I got saved under Brother Copeland's ministry through the television. And then, you know, we, you know, God finally led us to the place where, you know, was our local church. And then we are being fed the word on a consistent basis. And so there was this one time that I was praying, and, you know, as was my custom, I was praying, and God spoke to me. And when he spoke to me, he captured that moment. I can still remember where I was, you know, what he said, what I saw. And what I saw was. I don't want to say it was a vision. It was more like a mental picture. I was praying in the Holy Ghost, and I saw a mental picture of myself preaching. I don't think I called it preaching. I think I thought I was teaching. And then God spoke to me, and he said, I've called you. And he told me what he called me into. And of course, you know, it kind of stunned me, like, that's probably me. But I heard his voice. I thought, I better check this out. So I made an appointment with my pastor, and I said I shared the experience with him because I thought, you know, I don't want to be one of these flaky. Can I just say it? Flaky women, you know, and back in the charismatic days, it was just a lot of flakiness. I'm not talking about. The charismatic movement was legit. There was a lot of, you know, excess and no order and, you know, just coming in a common sense person. I could just see, Whoa, that's weird. You know, it's just amazing when you get saved. What is? God bears witness with your spirit. I was raised in the Catholic Church. We were never taught to read our Bible. We didn't know anything about speaking in tongues, singing in the spirit, any of that. But none of that bothered me. Even though I didn't know about it, when it was happening, I was delighted and curious, even though I didn't know. But when flaky stuff happened, you kind of go, that's weird. People. A room full of people singing in tongues was just never weird to me. Cause there was just something in my spirit on the inside that was peaceful. But, you know, sometimes, you know, back then, you know, people would stand up and yay, yay. And I would say unto thee. And I know I've shared this before, but I tell you what, it just captured a moment. An older woman. Yea, yea. And I would say unto thee, fear not, my little children. Cause sometimes I'm afeared myself. As a baby Christian, I Thought, that seems weird now. I don't know that much about the Word, but I don't think God gets afraid. So I made an appointment with the pastor and I said, let me tell you what happened. And so I told him what happened, and I told him what God said to me. And I said, do you see that? Because since I had a pastor and he has oversight over my life, I want to make sure that he agrees with what I'm hearing and what I'm seeing. You know, this is. God put me in a church as a pastor, of course, you know, we were a young church and I was a brand new believer. So, you know, he talked to me and he said, you know, when the church grows. And he began to say, you know, I can see you, you know, kind of like teaching people natural things, not spiritual things. You know, like, you know, people come in. We were in an area where there was a lot of welfare and stuff, and, you know, people didn't even know how to manage a checkbook. And I worked at a bank and, you know, and so in so many words, I realized he was being nice to me. But he was not confirming what I had heard. I thought, okay, because, you know, if you hear God's voice, you don't have to be combative over it. You don't have to be contentious. I said, okay, you know, so I walked out and I said, you know, I thought that was you, you know, but I'm just gonna put it on the shelf over here because it captured a moment. But, you know, every time I would pray, it's like I would begin more and more to sense that this really was the Lord. So I talked to him about it. I said, now, Lord, I, you know, I'm under my shepherd. I don't want to be going against anything. I don't want to be, you know, moving in a direction that's, you know, divisive or opposite or just, you know, weird. I said, so you're going to have to help me here, you know, if this is you. And when I prayed it would just get bigger. What do I do? And here's what the Lord said to me. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might. Instantly, I knew what he meant. Lock and load with your church. Lock and load. He didn't have to say, like, you know, a paragraph when he said it. What was in front of me was my local church. And that began to be my place of preparation for this word that he had given me. I love his voice. He wasn't going to have me going cross grains. He didn't give me something to confuse me, and he didn't give me something to be contentious with, the way the church was moving. His voice brings peace. It doesn't bring division. So that's how you learn how to recognize this is the voice of God. And I always tell my children, listen, if you believe something is God, let me just tell you something. It can keep. It'll make it through time. You can be patient. If it's God, don't try to make it come to pass. He's big enough to bring it to pass. And so I said, all right, Lord, I've got it. And so then, you know, began my journey with my love for the local church and to be a part of it and to bring my supply. And really, even though I knew that there was something down the road, I knew that God, because he was big enough to cause me to hear and understand him, that he would be big enough to fulfill it whenever it was time. And I was never in a hurry. So I was telling our congregation, you need to love his voice, and you need to know how to desire to hear him. When I first got saved, we were in a church, a word and spirit church that the pastor. We had worship that took you into the presence of God. We had a fiery preacher. But then at the end, the pastor gave time for the Holy Spirit to operate, for the gifts of the Spirit to operate. And so church was thrilling. It was not boring. We were hungry. We didn't know what the service was going to offer us. But, man, we just knew. It's exciting. It's gonna be different. I mean, it wasn't to be predictable. And so, you know, of course, you know, the pastor, you know, we're his congregation. You know, he would minister to us sometimes, you know, he'd lay hands on the sick others. He'd say, you know, I want to bless you. And at certain times, you know, he'd, you know, give you the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, you know, give you something that confirmed, you know, listen, God knows where I'm at. He's speaking to me, all that. But there came a time, and you just love that. I mean, you wrote it down. You just treasured that God was speaking to you. But there came a time when I thought to myself, I'm hearing what the pastor is saying. Many times there were scriptures. I'd go home and I'd study them. But it's like, I need to be hearing myself. And sometimes people. And I love that Pastor Nancy Said this last night. Don't leave. You're hearing to someone else. I'm paraphrasing that you're hearing. You know who you should be hearing. And again, in the beginning, when we're babies, there are words that come, you know, that help us recognize that God is dealing with us, but they're to assist us. They're not to replace his voice. And sometimes, you know, babies that don't want to grow up, they just want you to tell them what to do. I tell the congregation, you know what? I'm not here to tell you what to do. I'm here to help you recognize what God is saying to you. That's what I'm here to do. I'm helping. I need to help you recognize what he's saying to you, but not to tell you what to do. That's what my responsibility is. And, you know, and when you're just saying something that's totally off the word, then I need to help you recognize. Let's get back to the Bible. So I began to desire to hear God for myself, not to be independent of my submission to a pastor and to a local church. Because sometimes people want to exalt their hearing above the order of God, and that's wrong, too. It's very dangerous. Well, I hear from God for myself. Well, I do, too. But you know what? I want the safety of counsel. I want to know that, you know, I really am hearing from God or I'm hearing it the way that I should. And sometimes, I mean, I've seen people have so many shipwrecked lives because, you know, well, I hear from God. Well, if you heard from God, then why did it end up a mess? Why did it end up shipwrecked? Because that was not God's will. And so many times people, when they step out because they believe that they've heard from God and their life goes, you know, in a wrong direction, I always wondered, why don't they just come back? Why don't you just go? I missed it. You know, I miss it a lot in our church. You know, growing up in my church, I miss it a lot. But I'm so thankful that when I missed it, the Holy Ghost would deal with me and say, get back in line. That's wrong. Get back in line. That's out of order. Get back in line. And you know what? I love that voice, too. I love that voice that says to me, this is absolutely wrong. You should know better than that. You have to love every way that God speaks to you. Or that makes his will known to you. And my desire for this next generation is that they have a hunger to have a relationship with God where they hear God for themselves and still stay in the order of God, knowing that, you know, those that are over us are there to assist and to, you know, it's a confirmation, but it's a confirmation. There are certain times that I might. I could be, you know. You know, going through something in my head, and I just love. You know, you come to a meeting and Pastor Nancy will say something, and you go, oh, that was so good. Get out of your head. You stop that. And it came through the preaching of the word, or sometimes even the prophetic word will come and declare things. And I go home and I go, thank you, Lord. Because you know that this is where the enemy was trying to deal with me. You have to love his voice and you have to desire his voice. And there's a difference between taking time to hear his voice and studying your word. And you need them both. I'm not trying to magnify one over the other, but you have to have both of them. Because sometimes people can quote you scriptures from memory, but they have no clue as to how God deals with them, because God will deal with you individually. When God would speak to my husband, he would speak to him about ranch things, cows. He worked for Boeing Aircraft for so long. He would talk to him about planes, and he would put a parallel. He would give him a spiritual parallel using something that he was familiar with. Now, if God were telling me something about an airplane, I wouldn't know what he was talking about. One time, my husband was gonna get into this business. He was going to. Somebody told him about buying young calves, and there was this product out there that was going to help them put weight on fast so that you could take them to the sale and that you could, you know, get more money, a return, quicker. Was it supposed to be this nutritious? And so, you know, somebody told him about him. He thought, I'm going to do that. You know, we had a ranch. I'm going to do that. You know, because he just loved ranch stuff. And so. But he prayed about it. And he said, lord, is this deal, you know, is this really legit? He said, debbie, I saw a vision and I heard this. Skin it and check the inside. I said, well, Johnny, that's got to mean something to you. He said, debbie, when you brand cattle, he said, that original brand goes in. But he said, maybe it's a C and somebody wants to steal the Cattle. So they get another brand and they brand over it and they make it an O. The only way you know the original brand is if you skin it and you check the inside of the hide. That's the truth. The Lord told him, skin it and check the inside. Now if God would have said that to me, I'd go skin what. What he was trying to tell him was it's false. I said, johnny, that means something to you. But you know what? He wanted to do it anyway, so he did. He bought so many calves. Rachelle and Regina had to get up in the morning and they had to mix his powdered milk. And we had these little devices of tubs and they had like cow nipples on them, you know. And so the baby cows eating every morning, we gotta mix this powder because it's gonna fatten em up and we're gonna take em and we're gonna make more money. After a while he realized. And I said, isn't that what God was trying to tell you from the beginning? He didn't wanna hear it. He didn't love my voice. Isn't that what he was trying to tell you? But look at, look at how awesome God is. He asked him a question and he answered him. And he answered him in a way that he would understand. Of course, he was already so sold on it, you know, and his father, he did it anyway. And you know, we had the heartache of having to get up before work and get out there and make. And Rachelle remembers, it's a sure deal and we're having to, you know, and there's these little calves in the stall and it was a mess and it wasn't God. Now don't get me wrong, we didn't lose a million bucks on it, but it was our time and it was money wasted that didn't have to be wasted. We learned to appreciate God's voice and we need to, as pastors, as leaders, ministers, we need to make sure that this next generation knows how important it is to know God's voice for themselves. Because they have studied the word, they've prayed, but they've given time to hear God. And we have to choose to hear him in counseling. There are so many times that people are in situations and you know, God has an answer for them, but they don't want to take the time to hear the answer. And sometimes, you know, they presume that God's going to say something to them that they don't want to hear. And you understand that's the enemy talking to them. But it's important that we understand that this next generation has to put a premium on hearing God's voice and knowing how to be led by the spirit. Like I tell my congregation, I say, listen, you have enough memory of the Word because we give you scripture all the time. And when you're in situ, even our young people, you know, you do something at home and they'll pipe up with a scripture, you know, and you're like going, that isn't even revelation to you. Like, pipe down. Stop trying to use the scripture on me. You've heard it. But in revelation to you, you know how they try to. Well, the. The Word says, or, Grandma, listen to Regina over here talking doubt and unbelief. It's like you don't even really know what doubt and unbelief is. You just want the opinion swayed towards you, so you threw some scripture in it. Now, you know what? I can understand that from children, but I'm telling you, there's a lot of congregation members that do that. They just throw a scripture out there and you're like going, that's not even real to you yet. So we have to learn how to develop in hearing and knowing how he deals with us individually. I love his voice. And so I plugged into the church, and that was my preparation. I knew that God had something for me in the future, but I knew right now what he wanted my attention on was being a part of the local church and bringing a supply and learning everything that I could learn about my part in the body of Christ. When God speaks, he can say one phrase and it turns into volumes, One phrase. And automatically there is a way that you know exactly what he means. My husband and I, we got into business. Pastor Nancy said, this was it Monday night. I can't remember, but she said, I can't do anything without God's voice on it. I won't have anything to fall back on if I don't. I'm paraphrasing, you understand? You have to have God's leading to do something, or you won't. When the enemy comes in, you won't have anything to fall back on. In the very early days when we were saved, we believed that we were called into the office of distributor. We're going to be in business. We're going to make money. We're going to fund the church. This is what we thought God had for us. So we came to the pastor, and we were going to get into business with another gentleman. And so we came to him and we said, this is Our desire. You know, he's got a business. You know, my husband had always was intrigued, and it was a satellite business. He was always intrigued in that he wanted to do that enough that he believed that he heard God's voice to step off his job. So when we came and we were all excited, we were excited, but we didn't have God's voice. We had a good idea. We were very sincere. We were full of zeal. We just thought, man, we're gonna do this. And because our hearts are sincere and we want to fund the ministry, that this thing is just gonna automatically work. But we did not have God's voice. Now, everybody was excited for us, but other people's excitement is not God's voice. And you can't step out on anything without God's voice. Well, the long and the short of it, we went through a hard season because we didn't. And I just thank God that God kept speaking to us to keep going as we developed our faith and we came out of all that mess. But we did not have God's voice. We had a good idea. We were excited. We were sincere. We wanted to do something good for the church, but we did not have his voice. And it cost us about six years. Now, because God is so gracious, we learned something in those six years. Now we're at another place. And the pastor. I think I shared this before, but the pastor, he wanted me. When we had just started coming out of all that. Listen, our bills are getting paid. We've developed our faith enough to. To take care of our responsibilities. Our faith has developed that. Our bills are getting paid. Not much more than that, but our bills are getting paid on a steady basis. Our faith has developed. And so the pastor wanted me to step off my job and to be the principal of our Christian school. And he asked me, he said, debbie, because he kept talking to me about it. And I said, I don't think so. I don't think I should do it. And, you know, he said, no, Sister, I think this is, you know. Would you pray about. Finally, he just nailed me down. Would you pray about it? One week. Don't pray about anything else. Just pray about that. Would you do that for me? Yes, sir. But I didn't, because I believed. I knew that God didn't want me to do that. And so because my bills are getting paid, I got a really good job that God got me supernaturally. I've had some raises. I've got the liberty in this job to be at any function that the church has Day or whatever. I mean, I just had a great job that God got me supernaturally. So I'm thinking God's not gonna ask me to leave this. So he said, would you pray about it? I said, yes. It's a week later. I know we're gonna see him, you know, after church with fellowship, and he's gonna ask me did I pray? And he told me, what are you making over there? And I said, well, this is my salary. He goes, ooh, that's pretty good salary. And I go, yeah, it is. God has really blessed me. Oh, Sister, we'll believe to match that salary. And of course, I went, we've never matched a salary like that. I mean, you know, I love my pastor, but I know that, you know the situation that the school was in. So, you know, I mean, you know, I know he means well. I know he loves me, but, you know, I know this isn't God. But I'm gonna see him, and he's gonna ask me did I pray? And I haven't prayed because I presume I already know what God's gonna tell me. So I'm walking down the corridor of where I work, and I said, all right, Lord. Now, you know I'm gonna see him, and you know he's gonna pressure me again, so I'm gonna pray. Now, I know that you do not want me to quit this job. I've just gotten to the place, God, where all our bills are paid on time. Nothing's behind. We're starting to pay some things off. I know you do not want me to step off my job. And the conversation started like this. Debbie, do you know that the most dangerous thing for you is that once you have live by faith, that you begin to rely on the arm of flesh? This is not going the way I thought. I go, are you telling me that you want me to leave this job and you want me to be the principal of the school? I have no education for that. I'm not an educator, God, I don't have any qualifications for that at all. And he said to me, he's not looking for your academic qualification. He wants your faith. And I said, God, I just got to the place where we're paying our bills. What do you want me to do? I know. I know the situation in the church, financially. I know they've never paid for a principal. They struggle to just pay the teachers. They've never done that. And God said to me, up to now, your business has not brought in enough to really sustain the business and your household. It's always one or the other. He said, but so you'll know that this is me, that business is going to increase supernaturally and it's going to take care of things. And I said, all right, Lord. One thing I knew, I could not step out a second time without his voice. And once I had his voice, I gave my two weeks notice. I said, all right, Lord, I'll do it. And just as exactly what he said, the minute I gave my two weeks notice, the business began to increase. It increased to such a degree that when I needed to make payroll, I went to my husband for the teachers. I said, what you got in the camp? What do you need? What can you give me? How much can you get by with? That's how we negotiated because it was starting to flourish. And I'm just. He's just making a donation to the school. Honey, I got teachers to pay. I gotta give them something, you know. Tuition hasn't come in, of course. You know, we have taught our people better now, and we don't have that struggle anymore. But in the early days when I came in, this is what I'm trying to do. Get people to believe God, to be responsible to the things and to their, you know, to the responsibilities, to the local church and to the school and all that. But, I mean, I just go, can you help me? What's the least I can give you? How much do you got to spare? But I only could do that because God said that when you take this step here, this is going to happen over here. We had sold. We were trying to sell a piece of property because we believed it was the will of God to get closer in town so we would be available for our pastor. We lived 45 minutes out of town from where the church was located and where they lived, 45 minutes one way. So when we came to church on Sunday, it's two times. So 45 minutes in after church, 45 minutes home. 45 minutes in after church, 45 Minutes home. And we did that for a long time. But then we began to sense that we wanted to be more available for him. So we were able to move out. But we were trying to sell this ranch so that we needed to sell the ranch. And so for two years, off and on, we had tried to sell it, and it wouldn't sell. We'd leave it on for six months, take it off. It just never panned out. But I'll never forget, we were at a stop sign in our city and God said to me, I want you to increase your building Fund pledge. Because we were, we had a pledge system coming that we had a group of people that this is what they do. They teach churches how to raise money to build a building. And so we were in that program and they would tell you, you know, what can you believe God for in a three year period? And then they told you all kinds of testimonies that when people made pledges, how supernaturally money came for the pledge to be fulfilled and all that. So they're telling you it's a pledge, you know, and you're going to believe God so that we have this level of commitment from the people financially. And so we were. My husband and I then was in a really rough place financially. And I mean, I'm just thinking, God, you know, I'm struggling to pay my bills. I can't even imagine what I could say that I could believe for in the next three years when I'm. I'm not even believing for everything that I need right now. But I mean, I need to make a pledge. So I made a pledge that I felt that was worthy for where we were at, but it would have been nothing near what we would have pledged before. And I was really kind of disappointed, you know, in myself. Like, I'm under so much pressure financially. But this one day we're in a car and I'll never forget this. My spirit of God said to me, I want you to increase your pledge and I want you to increase it by $10,000. I've never seen $10,000 in a long time. I don't even think at the end of the year our income tax was $10,000, so. And the spirit of the Lord said to me, I want you to increase your pledge to the building by $10,000. And he said, and you're going to get that money by selling the ranch. And he said, the way that you will know this is me is that for two years you've tried to sell it and it's not sold, but I want you to put it on the market again. And he goes, it's gonna sell quickly because you're gonna know it's me. And then he said to me, he said, it's not time for you to invest in land because you know, if you're a landowner, you know when you sell property, you invest it back in property. That's just a, it's a given. He says, it's not time for you to invest in land. It's time for you to invest in my kingdom. And when it's time, I will put you in land. So of course you understand we're under financial pressure. I turned to my husband, I said, God just spoke to me. He goes, what did he say? I told him, and he goes, well, he didn't say that to me. I said, okay, you know, okay, I'm not gonna fight with you. I released what God said, that's it. Monday morning, he went and put the ranch on the market. Within 30 days, it sold. Now, you just can't even imagine the situation that we're in because since we didn't have any money, we didn't feel holy. We were mad. You know, we're under financial pressure, so we're mad all the time. So sometimes we're very cool with each other. So he didn't even really tell me, okay, I believe you heard from God. I'm gonna go down and put it. He didn't. He just went and put it down. And then somewhere, you know, at some point, he'll muddle and go, I put the property on the market. Oh, you did? Yeah. And that'd be it. Then, you know, later, he go, they think they have a buyer. Okay. We've been through a lot. When it sold, and literally, I didn't know what he was going to do. But when it sold, he came to me and he brought me the cashier's check that he had made out to the church. And I'm telling you, that was the seed that eventually got us into the ranch that we are in today. We sold 15 acres and we got 156 acres. It didn't happen overnight, but when God said, it's not time to invest in land. Invest in my kingdom, and when it's time, I'll put you in land. I held onto those words until the time came that he said, now go look for something. And we found one piece of property. And we were there, I believe, six years. And then we found the property that we are on now. He said, when it's time, I will put you. You have to understand, through all that time, we had bad credit, and now we didn't even realize how much time had passed. Because I'm thinking, we know it's time to go and look to buy a piece of property. But how are we going to do it? We're going to need a miracle. And when my husband went to, you know, to the realtor and everything, you know, he said, let's go, let's go look. And they were between two houses. And I go, johnny, do you really think we can get one of these? Of Course, you know, your spirit is turning flips because you know it's time. God is saying it's time. And I go, do you really think he goes, debbie, they looked at our credit, of course, you know, our mind is not renewed. We're thinking about how long it was that we were not, you know, two months behind, three months behind. He goes, who told us we have excellent credit? I go, what? I thought, okay, listen, hey, we have been doing better. You know, sometimes you don't even realize that you're already out of some things. You know, you just got the memory of something that's bad. You forget. Hey, yeah. Our faith has developed, and supernaturally, we got into that house, and it was even easier when we got into the next place. Why? I love his voice. And when he tells you to do something, sometimes it can be. It just seems like it's impossible. But if you go to follow his voice, he always does what he's gonna say. I don't want the next generation to miss how good that is. It's a thrill to have God speak to you and for you to step out on his word. His. His spoken word which agrees with his written word. We have the written word because it helps us define the spoken word to us. We know that we. How many times did Brother Hagin said, lord, you're gonna have to give me three scriptures. You're gonna have to do this, you're gonna have to do that. What a blessing that was to learn that boy, what we hear better line up with the scripture. But it's exciting when you begin to realize, I can have a conversation with God and he can speak back to me, and it's going to work out. And with everything that we are imparting to this next generation, everything that we want them to understand, we want them to develop a desire for the voice of God that leads them and guides them, because there's nothing like it. You know, there's something about the voice of God. When someone tells you God said this to me, automatically. It just bears witness with your spirit. And when someone. You understand in pastoring, when someone comes and says, God said this, you know, inside you go, oh, that doesn't bear. But they're not submitting that to me. They're informing me. So what are you gonna do? Sometimes, you know, I poke around a little bit. Well, now give me a scripture. There was a couple that they were not able to have children. 12 years it took them to have their first baby, and the baby was premature, had to be in the hospital for I Don't know how many days before they could bring the baby home. But I asked them, what are you standing on? And immediately the husband gave me three scriptures. I said, they've got this. They have three children now. And for so long they weren't able to have. It was miscarriage after miscarriage after miscarriage. But they got in the presence of God and they got his. They heard his voice and they got the Word and they stood on it. It is so important that this next generation gets an appetite to hear God for themselves. Not to throw off restraints, not to not be submitted, not to undo the order of God. You don't use God's voice as a way to get your way because his voice should be precious to you. His voice isn't so that you end an argument. Well, God said, like, I don't care what you say. God said, this is not what God's voice is for. God's voice brings peace. When we hear God's voice, it settles things. One time my husband was a little upset with me. I don't know why, it was common occurrence. The discussion we wanted to finish and he was tired, he didn't want to hear it anymore. So he went to bed. I said, johnny, are you mad at me? No, I'm just going to bed. We haven't finished our conversation. I'm going to bed. So he gets in bed. So I get on the bed and I straddle him. I said, johnny, you cannot be mad at me because the Bible says, don't let the sun go down on your wrath. He said, debbie, you look out there. And I looked, out he goes, it's dark. I've got till tomorrow before dark. You got me? I'll leave you alone, lady. I got till tomorrow. I said, don't let the sun. The sun's already down. I got till before it goes down tomorrow. Of course, we laughed. Why? Because the Word settles the things. When you speak the Word and someone values the Word, it's going to settle something.
- [46:51]
A
Praise the Lord. There's no expiration on what God says in the sense of don't be in a rush. Don't be in a rush. God leads, he doesn't drive. And if you sense a push, you can even have know that this is a particular way to go. But if there's a push behind it, sometimes you have to master the calendar. Master the calendar. Don't let impatience and cause you to step out onto something. You know, I. We've had many opportunities open to us about, you know, different networks and things to Go on some large opportunities. That's not my door. Not my door. Well, people would think, well, you just need to get out there. It's not my job to grow the ministry. Not my job. It's my job to follow the leading. It's not my job. And just because an opportunity comes, I'm not led by opportunity. I'm led by the spirit of God. Because if we go through a door that God did not author, you end up growing sometimes. And I'm talking about television ministry. You can grow, but now you've grown a machine, you have to feed. And I am not. I am not putting machine in place that I have to feed. Because if you put a machine in place that you have to feed, it'll start eating you. It will start eating you. And I've told our staff my goal is to stay as small as I can for as long as I can. Because it's not growth. It's not numbers of staff. How large is a staff that depicts success? It's the leading of the spirit. And I said, when you're following the leading of the spirit, you can do big things with a smaller group because you can move quicker. So pastors, don't make it your goal to grow big, make it your goal. I'm being led. I'm being led. I'm being led. And then in the leading, God will add, amen. We have to get rid of what we think success looks like. Success looks like following the leading. That's what success looks like. You know, you have to wonder, how big was Paul's staff? There were. There were people that God divinely joined to him, but what he brought to the earth is still feeding us today. And he did not have a big machine, You see? And if we're not careful, we see what God's told someone else to do, and we try to imitate and replicate, call that success. Success is hearing and following take time. Amen. And I've told my kids and I've told this congregation, once I hear we going, and I'm not asking for your permission, but I don't move till I hear. I don't move till I hear. Because I know other people's safety is connected to me hearing. Other people are counting their lives because especially pastors, when you're leading a church family, their lives are connected to your hearing. And other lives depend on you hearing. And one of the things I so appreciate is that dad Hagen put great emphasis on.
- [51:05]
B
On that.
- [51:06]
A
And our company understands some of that. And I see when people sit under a Flow that. That is not understood. Do this and back up, do that and back up, do that. And it's just a. A myriad of wrong decisions. Although they love God, following the spirit is everything to running the race. So thank you, Pastor Debbie. Loving the voice. Not trying to get an experience like, I have to hear a voice. No, you just have to know what he's saying to you. However that comes to pass. Because sometimes it can come to pass in a very spectacular way, and sometimes it's not spectacular, is just. I know. Leanne, I want you to come up here and talk about how God said to you, because this will play into that. You know what I'm talking about over there in John 14, I want you. Because people need to have confidence that God speaks to them. This will help tie that in. Yes.
- [52:26]
B
Yes.
- [52:28]
C
Well, again, this was quite a few years ago right there on campus at Rhema. I was in prayer school, and I had done the music. That's what I did back many years ago. And Jim Hockaday was up, and he was reading John chapter 14. And as he was reading John chapter 14 at that time, I think I'd probably been in the ministry maybe seven, maybe eight years, and he seemed like he read the whole chapter. But when he got to verse, what was it? 14, 16. 16. Thank you. It said, the spirit of truth the world doesn't see or know, but you know him because he's going to live and dwell on the inside of you. And you know, it was Jesus speaking. And I'm sitting there in prayer school. Jim kept reading, but I got stuck. How many of you got stuck on a verse before? So I got stuck and I was like, I don't feel like I know you. So if I know you so well, don't. Why don't. Why don't I see the glory cloud when it comes in the room? Because when I was a student back at rhema in the 80s, brother Hagin did healing school all the time, and he would be up speaking, and I was always volunteering, sitting over on the side right behind Mom Hagin. And he would talk about how the glory. He goes, well, the glory's coming in the room. And he'd say, it's so thick, I can't see the sound guys back there anymore. And I'd turn around about break my neck as a student. You know, I'm 18, 19 years old, and I'm like, I want to see the glory. And I couldn't see it. And this is what you want me to share, right? And I was Just like, ugh. And I get so aggravated, and I turn around and I look at him again, and he'd say, well, now it's so thick in here, I can't see half of you out there. And then he would start teaching on the glory of God. And then he'd say. He goes, well, now it's so thick in here. He goes, I can't even see my hand in front of my face. And I remember sitting there thinking, dear God, I can see your head, your head, your face and everything. And I would just be so aggravated because I wanted to see the glory. And now, again, this is now, that's when I was a student. Now this is like seven, eight years later, I'm out itinerating, and I'm volunteering at the prayer and healing center. And I'm sitting there, Jim's reading John, chapter 14. And Jesus just said, the spirit of truth, the world doesn't see or know, but you know him. And I'm going out like I know you. If I know you so well, why don't I see the glory cloud? If I know you so well, why. Why don't I know when the healing anointing is present? Why do I always have to wait till a minister or a pastor or somebody goes, well, the healing anointing's here. And said, I don't feel like I know you. You know, and if I know you so well, why have I made so many mistakes in my life? I said, no, I don't feel like I know you. And I'm just sitting there in prayer school. And then all of a sudden, I heard him say, you're calling me a liar now, what's funny is, I'm listening to him the whole time, but I'm still telling him, I don't. I don't know you. Because when he told me that, I was calling him a liar. You know, some people have real sweet personality. Personalities and repent. Oh, God, not me. I'm sitting there and I'm like, I don't feel like I know you. Because if I know you so well, why don't I see the glory cloud when it comes in the room?
- [55:48]
A
Why?
- [55:49]
C
Why do I have to wait till a pastor says the healing anointing is present? Why have I made mistakes? I don't feel like I know you. I don't know you. Second time, a little bit louder, you're calling me a liar. But I don't feel like I know you. If I know you so well. And I went through it all over again. Third Time he says, leanne, how did you get saved? And I thought, why would you ask me that? Are you making fun of me? You were there. And then finally it dawned on me. Duh, I believe. John 3. 16. I confess Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Now here I am, a Rhema grad and been in the ministry and now serving and training other people there on the campus, and I'm finally getting revelation that what you confess in the Word is yours. And Jesus said, I know him. So if I know him, then I know him, whether I feel like it or not. And so that afternoon, I went home and I was like, I got new revelation today, you know? And so I walked into my bedroom and I put my Bible down, and I stood there, and I was just like, holy Ghost, guess what I found out today? I found out that I know you. And I stood there and I would like to say, a dove flew by the window, or the blind shook or something happened, but nothing in the natural did. And I just stood there and I said, I'm so glad I know you. You're more real to me than anybody else in life. Jesus said, I know you, and I know you. And I just started confessing and speaking different and talking different. And I'll never forget that evening. I was getting ready to go to sleep, and all of a sudden I just. I learned something new. Holy Ghost, you're more real to me than the bed that I'm sleeping on. You're more real to me than my family and my friends. You're more real to me. I know you. I know you because when I was a student, Brother Hagin, you know, man, always flowing in the spirit, always speaking out things, and always just, oh, I wanted that walk like he had, but I always would feel that I just. I don't know if I'll ever be spiritual enough to be able to.
- [58:20]
B
To.
- [58:20]
C
To do these things. But then when John chapter 14. That day I got Revelation, and I'll never forget it. The next day, I go into prayer school, and I'm standing in the hallway with the prayer school band, and I looked at him and I said, guys, I'm going to pray a little different today before we go in and do prayer school. I said, just stick with me. And they just looked at me and thought, okay, well, it's just Ms. Leanne, you know? So we closed our eyes, we're holding hands, and I just said, father, thank you for the Holy Ghost. Holy Ghost, we're so glad that we know you today. We know you so well. And then I just opened up one eye and looked at him, and a couple of them was just staring at me. And I just go, we know you because we know you. We hit the anointing when we step on that platform, we know you.
- [59:13]
B
You.
- [59:14]
C
And I just started praying different. And, you know, it got to the place to where every time we'd walk up on that platform, we would hit the anointing just. Just like that. So two weeks went by, and, you know, with that time, we had prayer school Monday through Friday. And that had been my confession for. For two weeks. Just speaking it and not in front of people, but just privately. Holy Spirit, I know you. Because I know you. I've got this Holy Spirit, I have an unction from you. Because I have an unction from you. I know all things know you. Oh, I'm so glad I know you. And so that's just how I operated, you know, for two weeks, that's all I did. And once again, Jim's up speaking, and I'm sitting over in my seat, and I'm his assistant. And Jim had always told the ushers, you know, guys, if there's something that goes on in prayer school and I don't recognize it or see it, look over at Leanne and she'll tell you what to do. And so I'm sitting there, and Jim's up speaking, and then all of a sudden, we have a door, like an exit door, like this one over here. And all of a sudden, I saw smoke coming through the cracks of the door. And immediately I thought, oh, my goodness, something's on fire in the hallway. And. And I'm looking at the usher setting over there, where. Where Joel is.
- [60:27]
A
I'm.
- [60:27]
C
I'm looking at that usher going, what in the world? Why is he not looking at me? Oh, my goodness. Am I going to have to get up and do this myself? Am I going to have to run out the hallway? Am I going to have to interrupt Jim? What am I going to do? You know how all the thoughts go through your mind so fast and then. But as these thoughts are going through my mind, it's getting thicker in the room. And now it's covering that section. And I noticed that usher's just sitting there looking straight through it. And then all of a sudden, I realized I'm getting spiritual. It's the glory. And it filled the. The whole section over here, and then it began to fill the middle section. And I've always said, I wish there had been a video camera on my face, because I wasn't even looking at Jim anymore. I was so totally turned just looking, you know. And then it began to cover where Jim was standing. And Jim, I'll never forget it because he pushed his Bible over to the side. He goes, well, the glory of God just came in the room and I'm sitting there going, ha, I saw it before you did. And he said, if you need to receive anything from God, you know, go ahead. And we just ended up having a complete Holy Ghost service and healings and miracles taking place. And I always say this, you know.
- [61:47]
B
So often.
- [61:50]
C
I'll say, you know, one of the greatest things that I got that day because my whole life, my ministry changed that day because I finally got revelation of something. Not that the glory is for us to see, but that the Word works, that if you'll confess it and speak it and take it and apply it to your life. I don't know why I always, I never knew to apply the Word to my relationship with God. I didn't understand it like that. I knew I could receive healing. I knew I could see financial blessing. I knew I but to take hold of it and apply it to my walk in Him. If he says, I know him, then I know Him. If he says, I see, then I see. If he says, I have an unction, an anointing from the Holy One, then I've got an unction. I have an anointing from the Holy One and I know all things. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. I know the spirit of God. We know Him. Hallelujah. Glory to God.
- [62:58]
A
That's called walking by faith. You apply your faith to what the Word says. You no longer say, God doesn't speak to me or I don't hear, or I never know what to do. And you know, just say, I know him, I know Him. Agree with him in the knowing of him. I said, agree with him in the knowing of Him. And all of a sudden you'll recognize, I, I know him and I've been knowing him all along, but I didn't recognize I was know. Amen. Don't ever entrust your hearing to someone else because you know him. Amen. I love the voice of God because I know that voice. Amen. He always, Pastor Debbie and I were talking about it last night. I said, from the time I was little, I heard God. And it wasn't because I was born again, because I wasn't born again at the time. I didn't know that. I didn't hear him here. He would talk to me like he's standing next to me. Why? Because he wasn't in me, but because I would talk to him. He is of the utmost etiquette. If you speak to someone and they don't reply back, they have issues. You know, if you just greet someone and they just look at you and don't even respond, they have issues. That's not the Holy Ghost. That's not God. If you speak to him, he does not have issues. He will speak back. And I've always, since the time I was little, I talked to him, expecting him to speak back. It was not a foreign thing to me. He was personal. And then once I got got, once I was born again, then I heard, here but God. So he so responded to anyone turning toward him that when he. When I wasn't born again, it was like he would stand beside me and talk to me. Why I expect to hear. Hearing is not just for the preacher. It's for all of God's people. Amen. I know him. How about that? Why I agree with the Word on that. I know him. I know him. And I'll know exactly what to do. Even if you don't know, at this moment, at the time you need to step out, you will know. God said to me years ago, he said, when do you need the sermon that you're gonna preach in the service? I said, like last week, you know. Cause we want it well in advance so our flesh can be comfortable and our mind can be comfortable. And he said, when do you need to know the sermon? I said, I guess when I'm in the pulpit. He said, so when you need it, it will be there. You don't have to always have it the week before, the night before, the day before. I'm not talking about lack of preparation. I'm talking about knowing which direction to go. The moment you step up and need to know, you know. And you found that out, haven't you, ministers? You found that out, believers, that at the moment you needed to know, you always knew. You always knew. Amen. Hallelujah. Don't let the devil. Don't let the devil cheat you out of knowing his voice, because his voice is for you. Amen. Hallelujah. Pastor Debbie, thank you. So good. So good. We trust you've enjoyed this message. Visit us at dufresneministries.org to learn of our upcoming meetings, share your testimony, become a partner or visit our online store. This program has been made possible by the friends and partners of Dufresne Ministries.