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Hi, I'm Nancy Dufresne. Welcome to our podcast channel. We know you'll be blessed by today's message. Turn with me, if you would, to Psalm chapter 27. Psalm chapter 27. Hallelujah. When Brother Copeland was here. And his last service was Saturday night, and in the closing remarks of his sermon, he made this statement. Now, you understand he of course, preached blood covenant with such weightiness of revelation, Right? And then he made this statement, and I believe that it's, if we could say this, the climax of why he preached what he preached. And he made this closing statement. He said, I was born to know Him. I was born to be like Him. Amen. And that's what the blood covenant is all about. I said, that's what it's all about. And so that's in keeping with what I had in my heart for these meetings. And we have to realize this. Knowing God. Think of it, the opportunity to know Him. I'm not going to sell my birthright off for the natural that ends up leaving me weeping like Esau wept over what he made that exchange. Exchange for Amen. And it is our priceless privilege, but our spiritual birthright to know Him. And let's not just think knowing Scriptures or knowing principles. As important as principles are there to help us know him, they're not a substitute for knowing Him. Amen. And this is a bit of what we talked about last night. Because we can't know him by emotions, we can't know him by feelings. I'm not talking about working up a feeling of knowing. We know him by the Word. And the Holy Spirit is the One who reveals him to us, and we come to know him by the Spirit, that we're not seeking to know him after the flesh. Dad Hagin made this statement. He said, I think many people make a mistake by trying to know Jesus after the flesh. They want to go where he was. And there's nothing wrong with going over to the Palestine area, to Israel. Nothing wrong with that. But you're not. You shouldn't know him better because you went there. Amen. Because that location does not reveal what the Word reveals of who he is. Amen. And people try to handle something in the natural that helps them to know him. And they're going to cheat themselves. They'll never know him that way. Amen. It's by the Spirit, and we know him by spirit. We don't know him by flesh. And people, you know, may put a picture of Jesus, a painting of Jesus. Dad Hagin. Now, dad Hagin made this statement, he says, I think it's many times a mistake because people have asked him of the. Several times that he had seen Jesus, they said, does he look anything like the paintings? He said, none of them. None of them. Why? And he says, I think it's a mistake to try to capture him after the flesh. I'm not saying people shouldn't paint him. I'm saying people should not stock anything of their spirituality or on the way a painting looks. It's by the Spirit we know him, not after the flesh. Amen. And it's how we should begin to move with one another, that we know each other after the Spirit, not just after the flesh. Then you won't have struggles with who's preaching if the pastor's not there Sunday. And, you know, if it's a what, whatever, it's a man preaching or a woman preaching, and it affects. Or, you know, if it's not who you thought was going to be advertised. All that stuff is knowing things after the flesh. And we cheat ourselves when we keep ourselves on that natural, carnal level. I've had so many through the. Through the years. Not many, but a few. And. And some that have said it to where word got to me. But even some have said it to me personally and said, little lady, I don't believe in women preachers. I said, me neither, because I'm not up here as a woman. I am a woman, but I'm not up here representing women. Amen. And when he said, I don't much believe in women preachers, I said, me neither. I believe in anointed ones. Anointed because I don't believe in men preachers if they're not anointed. I don't believe in women preachers if they're not anointed. I don't believe in a preacher because of what gender they have. Without the anointing, no yolks get destroyed. It's about the anointing. It's about knowing, moving by the Spirit and accomplishing things by the Spirit. And to know him is by the Spirit. It's not by feelings. But as we get in his presence, there will come feelings. But it's not the feelings that help us to know him. And it's not the feelings that dictate how spiritual we are. Amen. Praise the Lord. And we were talking about last night that we want to make sure that we don't prize. Listen, we do prize principles of faith, but principles of faith does not mean, you know, him being able to list steps to take those Are. That doesn't mean we know them. They help direct us to the One we're to know, and they help us to be skillful with what the One we know has made ours. But principles are not Him. Amen. And the principles of faith are steps to be taken, but principles are not to be focused on. He's our focus, but principles are steps taken, for the principles point us to him. Amen. Psalm 27, verse 8. And I'm going to read out of the Amplified. It says, you have said, seek my face, inquire for, look, listen to this. And require My presence. As your vital need. My heart says to you. So he's waiting for the response of what he offers. My heart says to you, your face, your presence. Lord, will I seek, inquire for and require of necessity and on the authority of your word. How many of you know he's in us. He's in us. So for us in the New Covenant, it's about turning toward and turning our attention and focus toward the One that is in us and toward His Word that reveals the One who is in us. Amen. Because we can have someone. We can have this Great One in us and never really know Him. Why do people end up in the divorce court? They never really learned the One they were in covenant with. Being in covenant doesn't mean you know someone. And him, us being the temple of him, doesn't mean we know him. That we can be in covenant, belong to him and still never really know Him. We know him as far as we seek to know Him. Amen. When Billy Graham turned 80 years old because he went home to be with the Lord, well over. Over 100 years old, I believe was he or high 90s or. Yeah. But when he turned 80, Larry King had him on his broadcast on his 80th birthday. And Larry King made this statement. He said, there are a lot of men who get to the latter years of their life and lament how they've lived. And he said, it must be so fulfilling for you to be able to look at over how you spent your life and be fulfilled when other men are lamenting how they've spent their life. And Billy Graham made this statement. He said, I am the greatest failure among all men, for I was too much with people. I was too much doing meetings and in Crusades, I was not enough with God. If I would have been more with God, the people would have sensed more of God about me. Now that's what he said at 80. Let's not wait till we're 80amen because we can get so busy doing the work, loving the work, and missing out on this wonderful spiritual inheritance of knowing him. Not to say that Billy Graham didn't know God, but to say he was saying I cheated myself. There was more I could have done to know him and been more with him. Because if we learn this, if we become so sensitive, skillful in our approach to him and yielding to him, responding to him, you don't have to work near as hard for him, because a greater degree of him flows through you, accomplishing what you couldn't have done by multiplied hours that he can. He can, in a moment, do what you couldn't accomplish in months. Amen. Praise the Lord. I can look back at times for me in my life that when I would go through certain tests and certain ones I'm thinking of in particular, that there were four that were really, for me, weighty tests that came against me. And I was reading all the books I could read, and I was asking all the questions I could ask and asking questions of my husband at times and searching, listening to all the tapes I could listen to, to try to find. Really, at that time, I was looking for relief. I wasn't really looking for victory. I was just looking for relief. And I found myself doing all I could do, quoting everything I could quote, confessing all I could confess, reading all I could read. And nothing got better. I'm just talking. There was nothing changing. And I began spending time not trying, just being with him. And I would lay, literally, I told my husband, I said, there's such harassment coming to my mind that the only way I get peace is to get in the spirit. Not confessing, confessing didn't give me the peace. I had to get in the spirit. And I said, that's the only time I get relief. And so I would wake up, and that's the first thing I would do. I would turn every bit of myself in his direction. And all throughout the day, I would go back and make sure I never got too far out of the spot spirit. Because if I got any, if I got too far out of the spirit, that harassment and torment would come back into play. And I would lay for hours. Once I got into that place of peace, I would just lay for hours still. Just. I didn't want to leave that place. Amen. And what was I doing? I was just staying in his presence. I didn't know all my answers yet. I didn't know all the steps I needed. But if I just got in his presence, there was a protection from What? The assault on me while I was learning. While I was learning. Is there help for young Christians who don't know all the confessions or don't know all. They don't have the skill yet. Is there protection? Absolutely. Get in his presence because it will safeguard you while you learn. It will be a place of refreshing from the heat. Dad Hagin told us, and we heard it in services. We heard it on tapes. And those of you who have followed his ministry heard this. But we have to go back to this because we can't dismiss this if we're going to have full measure in the revival we're in. Dad Hagin said he told at times that his congregation would sit for an hour or an hour and a half. Nobody would move, nobody would talk, no babies would cry, and they had no childcare in those days. And there was not a sound made. And then he made this statement. People would say, what's the use of sitting quietly? No one said anything. No exhortation, no preaching. What was the use of it? You're just occupied with his presence. Your attention and focus is there. And dad Hagin made a statement. He said when those times would come, he said, I would go for a year and a half in that glory. Why? Because when you get in the glory, it's not to leave it there. It's to saturate you so that your life becomes that flow. Now notice, he said after those times, he said I would go for a year and a half in that glory, the glory of that one service. When he said that, it dawned on me because when he came to our church in 2003 and he was here for a week after those services, I recognized for a year and a half, I was in another place talking about in my. In my fellowship with God, in. There was a tangibility, there was a weightiness, there was something that was imparted. We were. We were lifted into another place in the spirit. And I went in that and I said, isn't that interesting? It was a year and a half I went in it before I recognized that it kind of weaned, so to speak. God doesn't want it to wean. If we will just keep refreshing ourselves in that. And that's what dad Hagin said. Those times of quiet and stillness that people get antsy in. You know, the flesh is wanting to move or do something. There's a prayer. I don't know if he's here tonight because his job, he may be here, but I so appreciated it. We had a service a couple of weeks ago here. And my son Grant did it. It was when Morgan was in Florida, I believe, for the holidays. And Grant did the midweek service, and he was going to teach, but when he got up to do the service, there was just a spirit of worship. And so we just worshiped. And Grant recognized that flow and didn't try to do something. And, you know, that's not always easy on the floor when. Especially when you're learning and you're just younger in ministry, you feel like you've got to do something and deliver something and bring something to the people. But he just. He just sat back and let the Holy Ghost move. And we just sat and we worshiped. We sat in the presence of God, and there was a tangible anointing on that. And then he called at the end of that. He called for anyone who had pain in their body, and he ministered to them, laid hands on them. And I so appreciate what this one precious congregation member just said to me maybe a week ago. He said, pastor Nancy, I wanted to thank you for the way you raised your children. Because he said, because your son obeyed God in that service and was sensitive to the Holy Ghost, my wife and I both needed he, and we got healed because of the way you raised your son to honor. See things are received in that glory. Pastors, we're raising a congregation, and it's important that we raise them to know how to sit in the presence of God and let his presence and glory do what no sermon can deliver. Not to diminish a sermon, but these each have their flows, and they each bring their supply to the life of God's people. And a sermon will never bring to you what just sitting in the presence of God will do. And just sitting in the presence of God will not renew your mind that a sermon does. They all have their role, and in your marriage and in your family, there's many aspects to the way your family functions and operates. You know, when Ed and I got married, he was on the road so much, but I understood this. I didn't marry him to not be with him. And there were times that we understood that we had to make effort to be together because the phone call would not do, because just sending a gift would not do. We had to be in the room and just be there. And there's a time that confessions just won't substitute for, when you just need to sit and be. Be with the one who purchased us and just be there. Just be there. And you remember when you first fell in love with that one. You all you wanted to do was just be where they were. You didn't have to go. You didn't even care. Listen, my husband did something. I look back on it and kind of chuckle because I didn't know my husband well. He. He said he didn't like playing games and things. And that came because his childhood was not a hap. It was not a home that had games in it. It was a home that had heartache in it. And they were just trying to survive. But in a happy home, a lot of times you find they just sit and play games together. And just to be in that, there's something that's strengthened and fortified. Just when families together, doing things that they enjoy, there's a value to that. And so when Ed and I first he flew to Texas to meet me. I mean, we had met, but he came down. He had. It was the first time he had basically come to see me. And in our family, we play games. We play games. And so my sister. We were at my sister's house, her and her husband, and she had the croquet set set up. Rematch, brother. You're going down. It was a fluke. It was dark. I couldn't see. And mercy has run out. And. And my sister had the croquet game set up. And I said. And we all went out and just played croquet together. We didn't know each other, and that gave us a setting. And we all just went out and played croquet. And he played and we had a good time. I didn't know till I married him, he hated games. But just to be with me, he did what he. He might not would have done naturally just because he would have done anything to be where I was at at that time. You understand what I'm talking about? In our fellowship with God, it might not be natural or easy for you to sit still, but just to be with him, just to be mindful of him, just to let him minister and you minister to him and. And him minister to you, you will do things that might not have been naturally something your flesh would have looked after to do. Amen. For the eternity. You know why he built our mansions in his mansion? To be with us. He wants to be with us. Let's return that. I want to be with him, and I don't want to have to wait till I get to heaven to do it. Praise the Lord. My husband made this statement because when congregations have those times when you are in a service and all of a sudden a quietness comes and a reverence comes and it's worse. It happened when we were in St. Petersburg, Russia, and it's that time I had preached one night on the sin of worry in St. Petersburg in his church. And at the end of that service, just a holy reverence. And I don't know, they have maybe around a thousand people in there and it just went still and it went quiet. And Ed always taught us, he said, when that happens, Jesus walked into the room, not just when people go quiet, but when there's that weightiness of reverence. And then Brother Pastor Ike saw him and Jesus said to him, and he said, tears were streaming down Jesus face and said, this is one of the primary reasons that my people don't receive what I provided for them is because of the sin of worry. But he was, when he came in, it changes the atmosphere. When things aren't going the right way, you can set the atmosphere for it to be changed. Acts, chapter 13 and verse two. Acts, chapter 13 and verse 2. It says, as they ministered to the Lord and fasted, so they've been there long enough to scare, skip a meal or two meals or however long they took time. As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, and dad Hagin would say to us, in ministering to the Lord, that's the atmosphere when the Holy Ghost will say something. Many times people are saying, I don't know what, I don't know what clarity, I don't know what direction, I don't know know what to do next. Then we need to take time to minister to the Lord because we're positioning ourselves that if he has something to say, then we're in the setting that he will speak in. Many times, dad Hagin talked about how in pastoring, he said, we used to close out every service of people coming around the altar, worshiping, praying and worshiping. And he said, people, he said, we didn't do all the counseling that people do today. He said, because people got their answers. Why? Because when you minister to the Lord, he turns around and ministers to you. Your answer, because what you sow, you reap. If you need to hear something, if you need something ministered to your life, minister to him. Not to earn it, but to realize that when we minister to him, he turns around and in turn ministers to us. We trust you've enjoyed this message. Visit us@DefrainMinistries.org to learn of our upcoming meetings. Share your testimony, become a partner or visit our online store. This program has been made possible by the friends and partners of Dufresne Ministries.