Podcast Summary

Podcast: Dufresne Ministries Podcast
Episode: Knowing Him, Part Three | Nancy Dufresne | Jesus the Healer Broadcast
Date: May 7, 2020
Speaker: Pastor Nancy Dufresne

Episode Overview

In this installment of the “Knowing Him” series, Pastor Nancy Dufresne delves deeply into the subject of intimately knowing God—not merely through principles, feelings, or outward religious acts, but by cultivating personal fellowship with Him. Using stories, biblical references, and practical examples, Nancy explores the difference between knowing about God and truly experiencing His presence. She encourages listeners to seek God by the Spirit rather than through the flesh, to prioritize His presence over religious activity, and to quiet their hearts to receive direction and healing from Him.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The True Aim: Knowing God Personally

• Opening Inspiration: Nancy reflects on Brother Copeland's statement:

  “I was born to know Him. I was born to be like Him.” (01:10)
  She emphasizes that this truth encapsulates the very reason for our covenant with God.

• Not Just Principles:

  “Let’s not just think knowing Scriptures or knowing principles… they’re not a substitute for knowing Him.” (02:30)
  Nancy warns against substituting biblical knowledge or faith principles for actual relationship with God.

2. Knowing God: Not After the Flesh, But by the Spirit

• Natural Methods Are Insufficient:
  Nancy shares Dad Hagin’s (Kenneth E. Hagin) perspective:

  “Many people make a mistake by trying to know Jesus after the flesh… That location does not reveal what the Word reveals of who He is.” (04:30)
  She warns that physical things—like visiting Israel or displaying paintings—cannot substitute for spiritual knowledge.

• Beyond Appearances in Ministry:
  Nancy addresses prejudice regarding gender in the pulpit:

  “I don’t believe in men preachers if they’re not anointed. I don’t believe in women preachers if they’re not anointed.” (09:50)
  The focus must be on the anointing, not external factors.

3. Principles vs. Presence: The Necessity of Fellowship

• Principles Point to Him, But Aren’t Him:

  “Principles are not Him… He’s our focus, but principles are steps taken, for the principles point us to Him.” (13:20)
  Nancy underlines that faith principles are tools to guide us to Christ and skillfully use what He’s provided—not ends in themselves.

4. Psalm 27:8—Pursuing His Presence

• Scripture Reading: Nancy quotes the Amplified Bible:

  “Seek My face [and require My presence as your vital need]… Your face, Lord, will I seek.” (15:00)
  She explains that, in the New Covenant, seeking His presence involves turning inward to the Spirit within us.

5. The Danger of Substituting Activity for Relationship

• Billy Graham’s Testimony: Nancy recalls a Larry King interview:

  “I am the greatest failure among all men, for I was too much with people… not enough with God. If I would have been more with God, the people would have sensed more of God about me.” (19:55)
  She urges listeners not to wait until old age to realize the value of abiding in God’s presence.

• Personal Example: Nancy shares:

  “I found myself doing all I could do… confessing all I could confess, reading all I could read. And nothing got better… I had to get in the Spirit.” (23:00)
  Peace came not by activity, but by simply being with God.

6. The Power of Quietness and Worship

• Dad Hagin’s Practice:
  Nancy recounts how Dad Hagin’s church would often sit in complete silence for long stretches:

  “You’re just occupied with His presence. Your attention and focus is there.” (28:45)
  She illustrates how such times impart lasting spiritual effect—“I would go for a year and a half in that glory.” (29:30)

• Recent Example: Nancy describes a powerful worship service led by her son Grant:

  “He just sat back and let the Holy Ghost move… [after] my wife and I both needed healing, and we got healed because of the way you raised your son to honor.” (34:30)
  The fruit of honoring God’s presence can deliver what no sermon can.

7. The Necessity of Presence in Relationships (and with God)

• Marriage Analogy:
  Nancy likens pursuing God to intentionally making time for a spouse:

  “There were times that we understood that we had to make effort to be together, because the phone call would not do… Just to be with the one who purchased us and just be there.” (37:45)

• Humorous Personal Story:
  She shares a lighthearted memory of her husband Ed playing games he disliked, simply to be with her:

  “He might not would have done naturally, just because he would have done anything to be where I was at that time.” (40:45)
  The moral: we’ll make room to “just be” with those we love.

8. Creating an Atmosphere for God to Move

• Setting the Atmosphere: Nancy recounts a story from St. Petersburg, Russia:

  “When that happens, Jesus walked into the room… when there’s that weightiness of reverence.” (44:40)
  She cites a vision by Pastor Ike:
  “Tears were streaming down Jesus’ face and [He] said… this is one of the primary reasons that my people don’t receive what I provided for them is because of the sin of worry.” (46:00)

• Ministering to the Lord:
  Nancy references Acts 13:2:

  “As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Ghost said…” (48:10)
  She explains that worshipping and waiting on God is how believers position themselves to hear His voice and receive guidance.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I was born to know Him. I was born to be like Him.” — Brother Copeland, quoted by Nancy Dufresne (01:10)
• “Let’s not just think knowing Scriptures or knowing principles… they’re not a substitute for knowing Him.” — Nancy Dufresne (02:30)
• “It’s by the Spirit we know Him, not after the flesh.” — Nancy Dufresne (06:00)
• “I believe in anointed ones… Without the anointing, no yokes get destroyed.” — Nancy Dufresne (09:50)
• “We can have this great One in us and never really know Him.” — Nancy Dufresne (17:20)
• “I am the greatest failure among all men, for I was too much with people… not enough with God.” — Billy Graham, quoted by Nancy Dufresne (19:55)
• “If we become so sensitive, skillful in our approach to Him… a greater degree of Him flows through you.” — Nancy Dufresne (21:45)
• “Sit and be. Be with the One who purchased us and just be there.” — Nancy Dufresne (38:50)
• “When you minister to the Lord, He turns around and ministers to you… what you sow, you reap.” — Nancy Dufresne (50:50)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:10 — Brother Copeland’s statement on blood covenant and knowing God
• 04:30 — Dad Hagin’s teaching: not knowing Jesus after the flesh
• 09:50 — On the anointing being the essential qualification for ministry
• 15:00 — Psalm 27:8 and the importance of seeking God’s presence
• 19:55 — Billy Graham’s confession on the importance of prioritizing time with God
• 23:00 — Nancy’s personal story of seeking relief and finding peace only in God’s presence
• 28:45 — Dad Hagin’s story of waiting in the glory and its lasting impact
• 34:30 — Healing during worship; honoring the Holy Spirit’s leading
• 37:45 — Marriage as an analogy for prioritizing God’s presence
• 40:45 — Amusing family story exemplifying the desire to simply “be with” a loved one
• 44:40 — Creating an atmosphere for God to move; St. Petersburg incident
• 46:00 — Jesus’ concern about worry preventing people from receiving
• 48:10 — Connection between ministering to the Lord and hearing the Holy Spirit's voice
• 50:50 — Principle of sowing into God’s presence and receiving in return

Conclusion

This episode is an urgent and heartfelt call to pursue true fellowship with God. Pastor Nancy Dufresne cuts through distractions, religious activity, and even spiritual principles to remind believers that knowing Him personally is their highest privilege and deepest need. Through practical wisdom, touching stories, and biblical foundation, listeners are equipped and encouraged to cultivate a lifestyle of awareness, stillness, and worship—learning to receive from the One who desires, above all, to be with them.