Podcast Summary: "The River Must Flow"

Dufresne Ministries Podcast
Speaker: Pastor Nancy Dufresne, with Pastor Happy Caldwell
Ladies Conference 2025, Tuesday AM - September 16, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the importance of allowing the "river" of God's Spirit and anointing to flow freely in individual lives, churches, and generations. Drawing on personal stories, scriptural teaching, and Pentecostal heritage, Nancy Dufresne and guest Pastor Happy Caldwell challenge listeners to value both the Word of God and the move of the Holy Spirit—emphasizing that the plan and power of God for this era require openness, faith, and an intentional contending for the flow of the Spirit.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power and Legacy of Spiritual Friendships (00:00–12:57)

• Nancy Dufresne introduces the concept of "the Four Horsemen"—a group of ministers, including her late husband, who exemplified flows of anointing working together in unity. She describes the foundation of this Ladies Conference as being birthed from decades of deep relationships and shared spiritual experiences.
• Pastor Happy Caldwell shares personal anecdotes about ministerial partnership, the value of honoring diverse anointings, and how these relationships mirrored the pattern found in 1 Corinthians 12—diverse gifts, same Spirit, serving the whole Body.
  • "We honored the different anointings as friends and brothers...We understood each other's weaknesses, each other's faults, but we didn't focus on that. We only saw the anointing and the preciousness of the Holy Spirit." — Happy Caldwell (07:01)
• Caldwell recounts nostalgic stories and funny moments shared among their families but emphasizes, "Most of all is we experienced this diversity of the Spirit and didn't lose it. We weren't competitive. Nobody was envious. We honored and loved each other and loved the anointings." (11:04)
• Nancy uses the metaphor of streams: when several anointed ministries flow together, the result is "broader, deeper" and more powerful—encouraging conference attendees to receive from every available stream.

2. Staying With God’s Plan & the Value of Faithfulness (12:57–25:00)

• Nancy highlights the need to stick with God's plan and stay connected to deep spiritual roots and mentor relationships.
• She references Psalm scriptures on being planted ("fat and flourishing") and notes there's "never an expiration date on the gifts...only a furtherance and a maturing."
• A major encouragement: "...be listening as you listen to these ladies minister because [they] teach you how to stay with the plan of God and what that means for your life... The plan of God is every bit worth living for. Worth staying with. And nothing else is a worthy exchange." (14:08)
• She explains how divine connections function in the body of Christ using the analogy of the foot and hand, stressing it's not about exclusion but about honoring direct spiritual relationships.

3. The Pattern: Word and Spirit (25:00–50:00)

• Repeatedly, Nancy presses the dual mandate:
  • "We're word and spirit—word and spiritual." (21:54)
• She quotes Kenneth E. Hagin on the last-day move: "He's raising up strong local churches that flow with the Word and the Spirit. And we're not authorized to leave out any part of that." (24:58)
• Importance of not seeking something "novel" but remaining steadfast on established truths and the path set by previous spiritual fathers.
  • "My job is not to find something new. My job is to take where God brought us...Because what is God doing? He's doing what He's always done, only more of it." (27:36)
• Stories from the Bible (John the Baptist, Jesus, the disciples) illustrate that each generation picks up and furthers the same message.
• Urges every listener to not see testimonies as limited to speakers but as applicable templates for their own life.

4. The Power of Saying and Speaking – The Spirit Performs the Word (50:00–70:00)

• Teaching on the necessity of speaking faith, not just believing it. The Holy Spirit performs what is spoken.
  • "We measure the performance of the Holy Spirit in our lives...by how much we give Him to perform. The more we say it, the more we have it. The less we say it, the less we have it." (53:18)
• Nancy references how Jesus would ask obviously blind people "What do you need?"—because "He needed something from them to perform. What did he need? Words...so the Spirit could perform words." (55:55)
• She shares from Matthew 8:17: "God can only fulfill what's spoken. The unspoken goes unfulfilled."
• Quotes:
  • "Quiet Christian or silent Christians are failing Christians. Why? Because they're not speaking." (57:21)
  • "Don’t waste your time not saying." —Ed Dufresne (57:42)

5. Faith, Agreement, and the Move of the Holy Spirit (70:00–95:00)

• Nancy underscores that no plan of God comes to pass automatically; "it needs our agreement" (65:26). She uses Mary’s acceptance of Gabriel’s word as an example—“So be it done unto me according to thy word.”
• She emphasizes, "How shall this be? The Holy Ghost."—the answer to fulfilling God's plan, achieving healing, church growth, or revelation is always the Holy Ghost. (69:36)
• "You cannot even hear your pastor right without the help of the Holy Ghost touching your ears. So if you don't listen by the Holy Ghost...you can listen by offense...by emotions...but only the Holy Ghost is qualified to take divine words..." (72:19)
• Illustration from Smith Wigglesworth: "Some like to read the Bible in Hebrew, some like to read it in Greek. I like to read it in the Holy Ghost." (73:17)
• The episode details how the pattern from Creation to Pentecost is always word and spirit. Nancy especially highlights that faith is needed not just for healing or provision, but for following and flowing with the Holy Spirit daily; faith must be developed in every arena.

6. The Holy Spirit, Music, and Anointing (95:00–107:00)

• Warns against equating emotional or popular music with the true anointing.
  • "Never listen to music void of the anointing, or you will ruin your spiritual ear to discern the anointing. Just because something's popular and people respond to it doesn't mean the Holy Ghost is on it." (101:01)
• Shares a prophetic dream about music, in which God revealed “songs of the era” already authored in heaven, emphasizing the need to get in the Spirit to hear and release these on the earth.

7. Removing Dams to Let the River Flow (107:00–end)

• Nancy cites from W.I. Evans' "This River Must Flow" (referenced at [107:50]):
  • The river of the Spirit must not be blocked by unbelief, carnality, or tradition ("dams"). It's the responsibility of believers to pray and press into God so nothing obstructs the river's flow.
  • "If these rivers are not flowing, then we who have been laid hold upon by God to bring the rivers to the world are damming up the river instead of being the channels that God has chosen us to be." —W.I. Evans (110:23)
• She challenges: "Just because the world legalizes it doesn't mean God authorized it." and urges listeners to "let the rivers flow—not the river of psychology, not the river of emotions, not the river of performance, not the river of popularity...but the river of the Spirit." (116:44)
• Concludes by having the attendees declare their hunger for the Holy Ghost and commitment to let the river flow through themselves and their churches.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Moment | |-----------|----------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 07:01 | Happy Caldwell | "We honored the different anointings as friends and brothers...We understood each other's weaknesses, each other's faults, but we didn't focus on that. Only the anointing..." | | 14:08 | Nancy Dufresne | "...the plan of God is every bit worth living for. Worth staying with. And nothing else is a worthy exchange." | | 21:54 | Nancy Dufresne | "We're word and spiritual—word and spirit." | | 24:58 | Nancy Dufresne | "He's raising up strong local churches that flow with the Word and the Spirit. And we're not authorized to leave out any part of that." | | 53:18 | Nancy Dufresne | "We measure the performance of the Holy Spirit in our lives...by how much we give Him to perform. The more we say it, the more we have it..." | | 57:21 | Nancy Dufresne | "Quiet Christian or silent Christians are failing Christians. Why? Because they're not speaking." | | 65:26 | Nancy Dufresne | "...when God forms or authors a plan for our lives, it won’t come to pass automatically. It needs our agreement." | | 69:36 | Nancy Dufresne | "How shall this be? The Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost." | | 72:19 | Nancy Dufresne | "You cannot even hear your pastor right without the help of the Holy Ghost touching your ears. So if you don't listen by the Holy Ghost... you can listen by offense..." | | 73:17 | Smith Wigglesworth (quoted by Nancy) | "Some like to read the Bible in Hebrew, some like to read it in Greek. I like to read it in the Holy Ghost." | | 101:01 | Nancy Dufresne | "Never listen to music void of the anointing or you will ruin your spiritual ear to discern the anointing. Just because something’s popular… doesn’t mean the Holy Ghost is on it." | 110:23 | W.I. Evans (quoted by Nancy) | "If these rivers are not flowing, then we who have been laid hold upon by God to bring the rivers to the world are damming up the river..." | | 116:44 | Nancy Dufresne | "Just because the world legalizes it doesn’t mean God authorized it. And there are people who have misdefined what it means to live right and holy because they've lost their way..."|

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:00 – 07:01: Introduction, origin of the Four Horsemen, spiritual legacy
• 07:01 – 12:57: Pastor Happy Caldwell, stories of unity and spiritual flow
• 12:57 – 24:58: The importance of multiple streams/anointings; plan of God
• 24:58 – 50:00: Commitment to Word and Spirit; generational faithfulness
• 50:00 – 72:19: Faith is spoken, not just believed; Holy Spirit as performer
• 72:19 – 107:00: Agreements, revelation, practical moves of the Spirit
• 107:00 – 116:44: Excerpts from "This River Must Flow"; dangers of “damming up” the Spirit
• 116:44 – End: Corporate declaration, close

Takeaways

• The move of God requires honoring every anointing, unity in diversity, conscious faith, and spoken agreement.
• Believers and churches must contend to maintain openness to both Word and Spirit, rejecting mere emotionalism or tradition.
• There is a river of the Spirit ordained by God for each life and community—our job is to ensure it can flow unimpeded, for "everything lives where the river goes."
• Every spiritual advance or fresh move in history has come from persistent prayer, deep hunger, and yielding to the Holy Ghost. This call remains urgent today.

This summary captures the heart, insights, and language of Nancy Dufresne's uplifting and challenging message, serving both as spiritual encouragement and practical instruction for those seeking to experience and steward the river of the Holy Spirit.