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Dufresne Ministries Podcast
The River Must Flow | Nancy Dufresne | Ladies Conference 2025 | Tuesday AM
01:02:31
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Hi, I'm Nancy Dufresne. Welcome to our podcast channel. We know you'll be blessed by today's message. Hallelujah. One of the reasons that this week is so precious to me is because the gathering of these ladies did not just begin this week by any means. They have been fast friends for decades, and they have seen so much of the move of God and have walked with God and brought so much to the body of Christ. But the four ladies, I remember, I called Morgan, who's my daughter in law, I called her maybe, maybe nine months ago the first time. And I said I was praying and I don't quite know what this is. What is this about the ladies of the four Horsemen? And that's what I prayed about. And then I called her and I said, am I weird? And so then as we started approaching these, I knew that it was for these ladies, but you would not know that phrase, the Four Horsemen. But we have a man on the front row who's an expert in the four Horsemen. So I have asked Pastor Happy Caldwell to come up and catch you up on what the four Horsemen are.
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Thank you, Nancy. Hallelujah.
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Thank you.
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You can be seated. He's here. The Holy Spirit is here. And Nancy asked me to just share for just a moment about the four Horsemen. We never did really like Brother Sumrall was the one that gave us that name, the Four Horsemen, because it sounded like the book of Revelation, but we preferred the four dimensions. No, we didn't sing. But the 70s and 80s, the Holy Spirit, y' all just have to forgive me. This is such a blessing. And every time I look at Grant, I think Ed's following me around. But the four of us got to know each other and the Holy Spirit began to put us together to do meetings together. We did them in Jerry and Carolyn's church. We did them in Jeannie Munn's church. We did them in Buddy and Pat's church. And we did several in Brother Sumrall's church. And we asked him why he wanted us to do this. He said, well, you have to understand, he came out of the 40s and 50s, healing and revival. And he said it was very competitive. They even advertised who had the largest tent. And he said, I have never seen four ministers with different anointings all flow together and love one another. And we dearly loved one another. Now all three of my brothers have transitioned to heaven. I don't know what that means. I'm not going anytime soon. They can have at it, but we would do Meetings together. And each one of us, this brother Sumrall said we all had different anointings, but we flowed in different anointings, and we honored the different anointings as friends and brothers. We had fun. We understood each other's weaknesses, each other's faults, but we didn't focus on that. We only saw the anointing and the preciousness of the Holy Spirit. I was telling Nancy, I think last night we were all in Joplin, Missouri, one time during a meeting in a hotel, and we all prayed together before the service. We would get in a huddle and put our arms around each other like they did in football fields. And this particular night, we had a plan, but we never stuck to the plan because the Holy Spirit would change it. And he told me that night, he said, now you're going to teach. But he said, when you get done, you call Jerry up and he's going to pray for the sick. Well, that particular time. And the anointing was so powerful and so strong, especially on Ed. Ed carried a tangible anointing. And as we were all huddled there together, we all four fell on the floor before the service even started. And Buddy was, how would I say? He was a commander. He was a leader. He helped and blessed so many ministries. He was solid, the solid rock. Jerry was one of the most anointed teachers and men of love that I've ever known. Ed, like I say, had such an anointing. I just get around him and start weeping. And as I look through the scriptures, just to help you understand what Nancy was talking about, the Holy Spirit brought this back to me in First Corinthians, chapter 12. And Paul is dealing with the gifts of the Spirit. He said, now, concerning spiritual gifts or spirituals, I do not want you to be ignorant. In verse 4, he defines what we experienced. There are diversities of gifts, but the same spirit. There are differences of activities or administrations, but the same Lord. There are diversities of activities, but it's the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all. The body of Christ is the recipient these gifts and these anointings. But what brother Sumrall was drawn to was that we all flowed together and allowed each anointing to be manifested and to bless the body of Christ. And he was drawn to that. Of course, he was twice our age at that time. I don't know. I think. I think I'm closer to how old he was when he died. But he told me one time he Said, I know how to die. I said, how's that? He said, when I was a boy, 19, I saw a coffin on one wall and I saw a Bible on the other wall, and he had tuberculosis. And he said, a voice spoke to me and said, make a choice. He wasn't even saved. And he said, anybody would know to choose the Bible over the coffin. He said, so I chose the Bible. Instantly, he was healed. And he said, my commitment and my understanding of my choice was that it was an eternal commitment. He said, if I just want to die, all I have to do is quit preaching. And he did that. One day he'd come in from overseas. His sons, we were all like family. And he called and said, dad's in a coma. Spinal meningitis. And a few days later, he came out of the coma and he looked at his boys. He said, boys, if it's okay with you all, he said, I'm done. I'm going to heaven. He quit preaching and he went to heaven. He began to see the covenant that we had together. And it was a covenant. If anybody tried to quit the covenant or get out of it, the others would step in. And I know one time Jerry and I were serving as CO officers in the ministerial group, International Convention of Churches, ICFM, and we'd both served for 12 years. And Jerry asked me, he said, how much longer are you going to serve? I said, why? He said, because I'm going to resign and leave it with you. And Buddy said, no, you can't resign. As long as Happy's still president, your vice president, you've got to stay there with him because of your covenant. And Jerry looked at me and I looked at him. So the next year we both resigned. We felt like we had fulfilled, but our love for one another is, I don't know if I can explain, was a bond that only the Holy Spirit could put together. And we honored each other. And we appreciate Nancy having this meeting with the ladies of the four dimensions. And. And I know you're going to be blessed because I know one of these ladies real well, and you're going to be blessed. I know them all like sisters, really. I mean, Pat's like a mother to us. Carolyn's like a sister. We went on vacations together for 40 years, I guess. In fact, where is Stephen? He's where? Up in tv. We knew Stephen before he was born. Because when Nancy joined us on one of our vacation, Nancy and Ed, she was pregnant with Stephen. So there's a long history. Carolyn's like a tormenting Sister to me. She what? That's right. She's the bossy sister. We go shopping and I wouldn't. I don't shop. Me and Buddy, we'd sit out in the hall, you know, and wait. She came out one day of a store and she said, happy, you have not bought one thing since we've been here. I said, I don't want anything. She said, well, you're going to buy something anyway. So I said, I'm not going to buy anything. She said, you are. I want you to come into the store and I want you to buy something. I didn't want anything. She bought something for me. The ugliest sweater you ever saw in your life? No, I still have that sweater. But anyway, we laughed, we cried, we saw our families grow up together. But most of all is we experienced this diversity of the spirit and didn't lose it. That was very important. We weren't competitive. Nobody was envious. We honored and loved each other and loved the anointings. And so that's what I'm just going to share. Turn it back over to you.
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Hallelujah. One of the things my husband prized so much was streams of ministry flowing together. So you think about it. If there's one stream, you can drink well, very well from it. But if four come together, it gets broader, it gets deeper. There's a greater flow. And so this week, that's what we're going to partake of. So get all you can. Amen. Get absolutely all you can. I love something in the book of Psalms that talks about that those that are planted in the house of the Lord shall be fat and flourishing. What's that mean with the anointing? And they shall still bring forth fruit in old age. What's that mean? That there's never an expiration date on the gifts. There's never an expiration date on the anointing. But there is a furtherance and a maturing. And so I'm just so grateful that after all the years of experience of these ladies that sit here, that we are going to. We're going to drink of a deeper flow simply because they have been so faithful for decades to the will of God, to the plan of God. And can I say this? Be listening as you listen to these ladies minister because teach you how to stay with the plan of God and what that means for your life. You can just look and see and hear the experiences that you'll hear spoken about this week. And you'll say, the plan of God is every bit worth living for. Worth staying with. And nothing else is worth its exchange. Nothing else is a worthy exchange of the plan of God. And so I am just so grateful that they're here. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for coming. And just know this. I told them, I said, we have a plan for every service, but it is so loosely planned, it's barely held together. Because we just want whatever happens. And I want an order that caters to the spirit, not an order that hinders the spirit. Because you have one of the two, you know, the religious leaders, their order hindered the spirit, but Jesus order catered to the spirit times. His order looked like disorder to the religious leaders. But I've told these ladies, I don't care if I'm preaching. If you get something, you walk up and I will step back and we'll just add to it. So, ladies, I again, say it. You get anything, I don't care what I'm saying, what I'm doing. You come up and you just say, step over. I say, I'd be glad to. Hallelujah. But I'm just going to start with my part and see where we end up. And I thought I wrote my part last night. I finished it around 12. And I woke up this morning going, no, that's not my part. So we started over again early this morning and we'll see where we land. Will you go with me on that? That's okay with me. Is it okay with you? Yeah. I'm expecting this week for us to be refreshed in what we're born for. Every single one of us are called to something. I said, every single one of us are called to something. And it's the only thing that will satisfy our life. Jesus said, my meat is to do what the will of him that sent me. Look at this. And finish and finish and finish his work. His meat. What is that? It's nourishment, sustenance. What nourished him was the plan of God. Amen. What strengthened him for his earthly life was walking out the plan. And in the plan of God is full provision. In the plan of God is full health. In the plan of God is complete clarity of what you're born for. And so we're believing that we're going to see the plan of God for our life more clearly this week. Right? More clearly. And the thing is, as you listen to the testimonies and the sermons and the revelations that God gives, these ladies don't say, well, that's just their story, you know, the Bible is a record of the movement of God in the lives of men. That's what it is. And as we feed on how God moved in their lives, our lives gained direction, our lives. God speaks to us about our lives. So when you're listening to how God has moved in the lives of these ladies, know this. They're not just talking about them, they're showing you, if God will do this for me, he'll do this for you. Amen. So don't hear it with ears simply for them, but ears for yourself. Amen. One of the things that God has repeatedly said through the generals in the body of Christ is about this last day era, that it's a move. And my husband was so. He was so mindful to articulate this much, much, much. We're word and spiritual, word and spirit. When men ask dad Hagin on occasion, what is God doing in these last and final days, and he said, he's raising up strong local churches that flow with the Word and the Spirit. And we're not authorized to leave out any part of that. And we're not authorized to value one above the other because, well. And I'll show you. And we'll even talk about that a little bit more. But dad Hagin prophesied, I believe it was in the last winter Bible seminar in 2003. And he said, we pride ourselves on being Word people, but we must remember we are also spirit people. And we don't have to lay down the Word to be Spirit, because to be spirit, you have to have the foundation of the Word. Because the Holy Ghost is only interested in working with one thing, the Word. That's all he's interested in working with. Amen. And so I quote previous generals often, because it helps us to hold clear to our course without veering. Because there's a lot of popularity that comes along the way. And just because it's popular doesn't mean it's the course God has for us. You know, my job is not to find something new. My job is to take where God brought us to through our previous spiritual fathers. Because what they did, they set the path so that we would know where to keep going. Once they weren't here, it was not about finding a new path and something different. Because what is God doing? He's doing what he's always done, only more of it. Only more of it. And with you think about it, John the Baptist came and he said, repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand. Right? And then once he was arrested and after he had been Killed. It says that Jesus began to preach. Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand. What did he do? He picked up the same message. He didn't say, I gotta find my different message. I gotta find my own message. He picked up the same message and he started from there and went further. And then when he sent out the disciples and authorized them to do what he was doing, he said, go and preach. The kingdom of God is at hand. What is it? He passed that he wasn't trying to find his own voice. His voice was found in listening to someone who had already heard from God. And that's why when Ed went home to be with the Lord, I didn't flounder. I knew exactly what to do. For 30 years, I had seen the path, I had seen the flow. And my job is just stay with what he trained us in. And we as the Body of Christ need to know that. Amen. And especially in those who we know where our divine connections are. Because I love the body of Christ. I am connected to the whole body of Christ, but I'm directly connected to certain parts of the body. You know, the foot should love the hand, but it's not directly connected to the hand. The foot is connected to the ankle. I know where my part to function. I know the direct connect. And I'm not dismissing someone else by knowing my direct connection. I'm not devaluing someone else to know my direct connection. I know who my divine connection. And I stay there because it helps me to walk accurately. And so this is why I go back to these pioneers of faith who spoke what was to come in the time ahead. Why is that? Because we war through the prophecies that have gone before us. We war a good warfare. What's that mean? We stay on course. We don't veer. We don't lay down any of the plan. We stay true by knowing what has been said before time. So that's why I often repeat what was said before. Because it holds us true to what God has for us. Amen. Well, praise the Lord. God told dad Hagin, he said, you have taught my people faith. But now I want you to go teach the move of the Spirit. You must go teach my people about the Holy Ghost. Charismatic believers know how to praise me. But there is a move of the spirit they know little or nothing about. And should I tarry my coming, that understanding will be lost to future generations if you don't teach them. Notice this. It will be lost to future generations if you don't teach them. If you don't teach them why there are so few in the earth who know it. I'm talking about to the. To the degree that dad Hagin had the voice for it. Amen. So our assignment is clear. Just pick up where he left off. Amen. He also stated, of course we will never leave behind the teaching of God's Word. But God wants to combine a move of His Spirit with the solid foundation of Bible teaching that's been built over the past few decades in the body of Christ. The combination will cause the next move of the Holy Ghost to be the biggest one yet. That's what we're after. God's biggest moments. His great Harvest. I love something. At Smith Wigglesworth, it's recorded that he stated, once you've had Pentecostal services, nothing else satisfies. Don't just throw me back into a setting with no bite of the anointing on it or no move of the Spirit on it, because I've already tasted the Word and the Spirit together. Amen. Don't just throw me one and expect me to be satisfied. It's a package deal. Amen. I'm going to quote a few points of Joel Siegel's sermon. He came and preached here and this is the last time you'll hear me say his name in relation to this sermon because I liked it so well, you need to go back and find it online. I don't even know what it's titled, but just find it. But he was basically talking about the Word and the Spirit. And then he pointed this out and he talked about the the pattern of God's movement has always been word and spirit. This is not new that at creation, God spoke and the Spirit that was hovering was waiting for words. God never intended to perform creation without the help of the Spirit. That was the part of the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit needed words. So when God spoke words, the Holy Spirit took words and performed. The Holy Spirit is a performer. Know that he is a performer. And the more we speak of the Word, the more we give him to perform in our own life. He performs more as the Word is more in our mouth. So we measure the performance of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Not us. We. I mean, not Him. We measure it by how much we give him to perform. The more we say it, the more we have it. The less we say it, the less we have it. Because Jesus said he shall have whatsoever he saith. Remember Jesus told Dad Hagin, primarily, my people aren't missing it in what they're believing. They're missing it in what they're saying. Amen. It's not enough to believe something, we have to say it. Now you think about when Jesus was dealing with every case, when he dealt with a blind man. Blind people are so obviously need of that. You don't walk up to a blind man and say, I have no idea what they need. You know, it's apparent just at looking at the face. It's apparent by watching their carriage, of how they move or anything. You can see the different way of maneuvering when someone is blind. But every time Jesus asked them, what do you need? It's not because he was ignorant and couldn't see what they needed. It's because he needed something from them to perform. What did he need? Words. That I might receive my sight. That's what they said, that I might receive my sight. Why he had to have their words so the Spirit could perform words. You have to know the order of God. He says something, then he does something. Amen. Then what is this in Matthew 8:17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken. Look at that. We focus on the last half of that verse, which is certainly something worth focusing on. Himself took our infirmities and bearer sicknesses. But the first part, that it might be fulfilled, which was spoken. Notice this. God can only fulfill what's spoken. The unspoken goes unfulfilled. I love something I heard Leanne Sosby say one time. She said, quiet Christian or silent Christians are failing Christians. Why? Because they're not speaking. My husband made this statement. He said, don't waste your time not saying. Don't waste your time not saying. Because the more we say it, the more we have it. The less we say it, the less we have it. So we measure the having. We possess all, but we're only partaking to the measure. We're saying, thank God we were taught this in the 60s and 70s and 80s. This was so fundamental because Jesus said, when I come back. And the amplified says that when I come back, will I find persistence in faith in the earth? Notice this. Could we not say it? Since faith is saying something, could we not say, when I come back, will I find persistence in saying? In the persistence in saying in the earth. Because he needs words. Because why? The Holy Spirit is a performer, and he's a performer of words. So we see the pattern of God is at creation, he spoke, the Holy Spirit performed. Do you think that the way God began something, he's going to veer from that and not continue? He's going to continue that exact same pattern and then we see this, that we see Jesus entrance into the earth was word and spirit. How was it word and spirit? Well, the angel Gabriel showed up and announced to her the plan of God. Notice this. Although God had a plan from the foundation of the world, it still needed man's agreement. And when I say man, yes, I know Mary was a woman, don't trip up over that. Because when the word says man, it means mankind. So don't be duped by today's society. But when God forms or authors a plan for our lives, it won't come to pass automatically. It needs our agreement. That's why the Holy Ghost shows us things to come, so we can give our agreement, so God can perform it. The Holy Ghost shows us things to come, number one. Because then he keeps us in front of. He makes us the head and not the tail. We're in front of things instead of behind things. We're not the last to know. We already know. And that's where the Holy Ghost leading positions us. He will show us things to come. But the second reason he shows us things to come is because what's to come calls for our faith. And we have to have our. We have to put our agreement out there. Because just because God authored it doesn't mean it's going to. It's going to manifest. It calls for our faith. That's why when somebody gives you a word from God, it still calls your faith to be joined to that. Because that word is not automatic. It requires the homework of faith on that word. Because why The Holy Spirit's a performer of words. So over there again in Matthew 8:17, that it might be fulfilled, which was spoken if it's unspoken, it's unfulfilled, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by what? Isaiah, the prophet. We know he was a prophet, but what also what first was Isaiah? A man. That it might be fulfilled, which was spoken by a man. So a man had to say something so the Holy Spirit could perform it through Jesus that himself took our infirmities and bear our sicknesses. And God laid upon him the penalty of sin and sickness and disease and poverty and lack. And the curse, he laid all that upon Jesus. But it began with a man saying something, and the Holy Spirit being a part of performing that. So Jesus, though Jesus arrival came through the word in the Spirit because Gabriel the angel showed up and announced the plan of God to her. And why did he announce that to her? If God could just do it, why didn't he just do it? But he couldn't do it without words. What is that? Faith words. What are. You know what faith is? Agreement. I agree with God. Really? It's so simple. By his stripes, I'm healed. I agree with that. He provides all my needs. I agree with that. That's faith. It's our agreement. So when he came to, Gabriel came to hear words of what would Mary say? And she said, so be it done unto me according to thy words. She spoke words, and her words authorized him to go back to heaven and bring the report. We got her agreement. We got her faith. We've got her words. Now what happened? And the Spirit. And the Spirit. Amen. So I want us to see. Look at Luke, chapter 1, verse 34. Once her agreement spoke, that was her faith talking. But I want you to see Luke, chapter 1, verse 34. He said, you're going to have a child, you know. And Luke 1:34. Then said Mary unto the angel, how shall this be, seeing that I know not a man? And the angel answered unto her and said, the Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the highest shall overshadow thee. Therefore also that thing which shall be shall be called the Son of God. I want to read it this way because this is a way you need to remember it. How shall this be? The Holy Ghost? Take out all those other words. How shall this be? The Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost. I want you to know. How will the plan of God come to pass for your life? How shall this be? The Holy Ghost? How shall healing manifest in my body? The Holy Ghost? How shall my church grow? The Holy Ghost. How shall I know what God is saying to me? The Holy Ghost? And you say, well, he speaks to me by the Word. But without the Holy Ghost revealing that Word, we have no understanding of divine words. Because divine words need a divine teacher. They need a divine unfolding. How do you get past that test? The Holy Ghost. Why, he will bring revelation to you of the Word. And once revelation comes, the test is done. If you'll act on the revelation that comes, that's the end of that test every time. Because people think they need victory when they just need revelation of their victory. And once you get revelation of that, that test is done. When you act on that revelation, you employ that revelation. But you can't have revelation without the Holy Ghost, because He knows the mind of God and the wisdom of God. And he takes it and he reveals it to us. You cannot even hear your pastor right without the help of the Holy Ghost touching your ears. So if you don't listen by the Holy Ghost. You can listen by offense, you can listen by unforgiveness. Seriously. And they will hear things wrong. When their pastor was trying to rescue them, but they didn't hear about the Holy Ghost. They heard by their emotions. They heard by their sin soulish. You have to hear by the Holy Ghost. Because only the Holy Ghost is qualified to take divine words and handle them rightly and bring us into their true meaning. Amen. And so I love something. Smith Wigglesworth had made a statement that was recorded. He said, some like to read the Bible in Hebrew, some like to read it in Greek. I like to read it in the Holy Ghost. He's not belittling Greek, he's not belittling Hebrew. But if you leave out the Holy Ghost, you don't know what it says. You don't know what it says. You can just be like a professor at a university and study it as a historical book. But without the Holy Ghost, there is no divine revelation coming. So there's no such thing as not being word and spirit. There's no such thing if you're moving with God and people. Some are more word and spirit than they know. Well, that went silent. The whole room went silent on that. Amen. We are word and spirit. That's how God moves. That's the order of heaven. Amen. And then we can look at the order of heaven operating on the day of Pentecost. Because Jesus said a word. He said, go to Jerusalem. Tarry there until you be endued with power from on high. So they heard the Word spoken. They complied with the Word. They waited, they tarried there. The Holy Ghost came. And then they got the Word and the Spirit on them. But the Holy Ghost didn't just come to stay in the upper room. That was just the entrance into the whole earth. That upper room was just the door to the earth because the Holy Ghost entered at a place where someone was expecting him, honoring him, receiving him. And then the Holy Ghost moved out through the whole earth. And now he's present everywhere. Because 120 were expecting, 120 heard the word, and they agreed with the Word. And they chose to become the open door. Because faith is simply an open door through which God's power manifests. Then they come out of the upper room. Why? Because it's not just for them. And what happens when next the Word Peter stood up and said, this is that. And he goes back to the Word. And then they're all filled with the Holy Ghost. You see, it's Word and Spirit. Word and spirit. Since that's a pattern of God, do we think the last day harvest is going to be other than word and spirit? The only way to end up this thing is word and spirit. You know, praise the Lord. I said praise the Lord. And there are some things I can just say about me personally, some things I know, ministry wise, spiritually wise. I'm behind on. I have to catch up. You know how I'm gonna catch up, Word and spirit. You know how I'm going to come into a fulfillment of everything that's in my heart, Word and spirit. I just can't figure it out by laying out my calendar and say, well, you know, I'm gonna loft this amount of time to do this and this. Now, there's nothing wrong with an order and a plan, but if you'll take it at the leading of the Holy Ghost, he will help you fulfill what all your organ could never bring about, the organizing of your day. Because everything that's in our heart can only be fulfilled with the help of the Holy Ghost. Aren't you thankful for the Holy Ghost? We are the temple of the Holy Ghost. We are the residing place of the Holy Ghost. And he is welcome to manifest in every place, in every way. Amen. But you have to, you have to stir up, stir up the faith to move with the Holy Ghost. Because it's not by accident that the emphasis of the teaching of faith for decades preceded the next flow, which is word and spirit. Because it takes faith to flow with the Holy Ghost. And faith works the same in every arena. We know this. Is that the way it works for finances? Same way it works for healing, Same way it works for walking free from worry, walking free from fear. It works the same. But it also works the same in moving with the Holy Spirit. And for ministers, it also works the same by faith and moving publicly with the Holy Spirit. And just because we know how to follow the Holy Spirit within our office, administering to people, does not mean we know how to follow him in daily life. Because I, we, well, praise the Lord that has. Faith has to be developed in every, every, every, every, every arena. So if we want to go further in the things of the Spirit, we, we can only go there by faith. And if people step back from the spirit of faith, they have to step back from following the Spirit. Because you can only follow him by faith. I can't tell you how I was trained by my husband. The first time I ever preached outside of our church. I preached two times in Tulsa. Pitifully, really bad. And. But One day the anointing came up. Until then, I especially operated just under my husband's anointing. And what's that mean? Well, he would say, nancy, come up here and lay hands on the people. And I'd lay hands on the people. And I knew that's his anointing in the room. That's not mine. That's his Amen. And that's. That's good. That's part of the training. That's part of the process. That's why you want to get in the room with somebody who has an anointing that. That will enhance yours and stir you up. But the first time I ever preached outside of that church in Tulsa, we were in, I believe is Deerfield Beach, Florida. Is that a place? That's a. That's a place. Okay. Deerfield Beach, Florida. There were about 800 people there. And they're introducing Ed. I mean, they've gotten to that point in the service. And he. While they're introducing him, he said, the anointing just lifted off of me. And I thought, good. Why? I want to see what you do when that happens. What do you do when that happens? I want to see every aspect of this. And then the next phrase he said, and it just came over on you. I said, I don't know. It is, oh, no, Ed in. But Ed didn't care that, oh, no, you didn't. So when they introduced him and he came up and took the mic and he introduced me and I preached for the next hour under the Holy Ghost, because you better have the Holy Ghost at those times. And you get training and you get around that to someone who puts a demand on you, you to dip down. To dip down and draw out of your spirit so that you're not just drawing out of your soul every time. Because you can easily draw out your soul before the service starts. I got so many soulish sermons that are bags of them, unpreached. But when you get in the room and it doesn't fit the room, and you have to find what fits the room, and it takes faith. It takes faith to do that. But it is the best ride. I said, it is the best ride. And it is so satisfying. Amen. But we know this. My husband made this statement. When God gives you an anointing, he expects you to get around the right men to help develop that. If you don't develop that anointing, then you're out of the will of God. Notice that. And God will give you people and they're divine connections, and you have to know who they are. Because you have to stir yourself up for the plan of God for your life. And I'm not just talking about fivefold ministry. Because, sheep, you need a pastor that's going to help you know the word of God and know how to be skillful with your victory every day so that you can fulfill the plan of God in your world every day. And you protect that divine connect. You hear me? You protect that divine connection. You don't find fault with it. You don't find offense with it. You don't find. You don't critique it, you don't criticize it. Because we need somebody who knows God better than us, speaking into us. Why? Because to keep us stirred. Because if we don't keep stirred, we start drifting little by little. Not all at once, just little by little. And before long, you're on the. You're on your beach and think that you're just in the flow and back in the soulish arena. Living soulish. Living mentally. Yeah. But the more we're around the genuine flow of the anointing, the more we recognize what isn't the anointing. Yeah. The things of the spirit have to be contended for. And don't you forget it. You have to press. Not press upon God, but press past your flesh. Press past opposition. Have you noticed every time you go to obey God, you have to step past your flesh to do it? Have you noticed that every time you obey God, you have to step past your soul and you have to step past your flesh? But the more you renew your mind, the more you renew your mind, the less your soul fights you. But you will have to step past your flesh every time. But the more you step past your flesh, the more skillful you get at it. And it becomes an easy step. It's not a hard step. It's an easy step. Amen. But we have to contend for these things. I said we have to contend for these things. The devil doesn't mind people singing. He doesn't mind them shouting and dancing in service as long as there's no anointing. Why? Because the devil hates the anointing. He's afraid of the anointing because one moment of encounter with the anointing undoes what took him decades to yoke people up with. He does not want people to come into an atmosphere where the atmosphere is charged with the anointing and the praise and worship is charged with the anointing. He'll let you sing all day long. As long as the anointing is not on it. And just don't think that because the name of Jesus is in it, the anointing is on it. God said something to me years ago because my husband said, when I led the praise and worship here, and he said to me, he said, I want you to, I want to have a choir in the church. Well, the only choir I knew of was the denominational one I grew up with. And I go, oh, we were so bad. And we killed it for the, for the pastor. We did not help the servant. We just gave him something. We gave him an obstacle. Get past us. We dare you. You know, it was like we dug your hole for you. Good, I hope you can dig yourself out of that. We didn't know. We weren't trying, but that's where we landed, that service every time. We meant well, you know, but we just didn't know. We just didn't know. So that's the only definition I had. So when Ed said, I want to acquire. You don't want what we did, you do not what I grew up seeing. But one night, God rewrote that definition for me. He gave me a dream. And in that dream, I saw a choir standing on steps just like this. And I saw the glory of God coming rolling off of them in waves. And then off to the piano, off to the side there was a grand piano. And on the music stand sat just a black legal notebook, a three ring binder, but it was about six inches thick. And I said, and it was full of papers. And I said to God in the dream, what is that notebook? And he said, those are songs of the era. And he said, you don't have to write them. Heaven has already authored them. You just have to get in the Spirit and hear what heaven's already authored. That's what we're talking about. Christ in me, he's the one that does it. Amen. Songs of the Spirit. The devil would love for you to bring every song you authored and bring it to the service. Just don't touch the ones heaven authored. Those carry the anointing. And then God said to me, he said, never listen to music void of the anointing or you will ruin your spiritual ear to discern the anointing. Because you'll think, just because the flesh likes it and the beat and people like it, just because something's popular and the people respond to it doesn't mean the Holy Ghost is on it. Because the majority of the Hebrews said, no, we're not going in. And they didn't. Majority does not Rule. That's not word, that's not a scripture. Just in case you didn't know, that's not a scripture. What, what rules? God's word and the anointing on it to back it up. Amen. So the devil doesn't mind us doing things all day long that look like that. They had the stance of worship, but there's no anointing. The posture of worship, but there's no anointing. He loves. He loves us to confuse our emotions with the anointing. Yeah, yeah, but Ephesians, chapter six and verse ten. Ephesians, chapter six and verse ten. Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord. And. And we could say it this way. Be strong in the power of his might. Put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles or the strategies and the devices of the devil. So when it says be strong in the Lord, what's that mean? Well, the Lord and the Word are one. They're the same. So couldn't we read it this way and be correct? Be strong in the Word, to be strong in the Lord. You're strong in the Word, he is the Word made flesh. Be strong in the Word and be strong in what? The power of his might. What's the power of his might? The Holy Ghost. So he's saying, be full of the Word and be full of the Spirit and then take your stand against the wiles of the enemy. People are trying to stand and they're going, how come it's not working? You gotta be full. Be full. Because anything less than full is not safe. Our safety is in fullness of the Word and the Spirit. Notice it doesn't say be strong in the Lord or be strong in the Word and put on the whole arm of God. No, it doesn't leave out the part of the Holy Ghost. Be strong in the Word and in the power of his might. Amen. Well, praise the Lord. Whenever Ms. Shelley Brim was here, I think, was it last. Last ladies meeting, was it? Ministers conference in last November. She came and she referenced something that I want us to reference real quick. I'm gonna try to do it in five minutes. Five minutes. Five minutes. She referenced a book that dad Hagin. What was it? It was open on his desk at the time of his ex. Tell me this River Must Flow by WI Evans. And I want to read a few things because when she said that it's out of print, but it is downloadable, you can get online and it can be downloaded. So many of you don't ask. We don't have it. It's out of print. We download it. I want to read. Just. Can I read a few quick excerpts of his from this. It's called this River Must Flow. He says our hearts must be awakened and quickened. That's true. In this passage, we may see a picture of the gracious moving of God and pouring out his spirit upon the earth. In our day, God has been pleased to visit the earth in marvelous ways down through the ages. And we stand somewhere along the line where the volume of the river described in Ezekiel is being increased in its flow to bring its immeasurable blessing. Remember what Ezekiel saw. River up to the ankles, up to what? The knees, the loins, and then waters to swim in. And so this is what Evans is referring to. And then Jesus made this statement, of course, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. And then WI Evans writes here, the Holy Ghost in his outpouring is likened to rivers of living water poured out through the lives that are yielded to Jesus. How do you yield to him? You respond to him. You obey him. Life that has been lost was restored because some folk on the earth had come into close enough contact with God and had sufficient vision to be stirred in prayer. Then, in answer to prayer, God made living and real the truth. There developed an association of people in the world who knew God in a new way, and the truths out of that have been brought forth. But every time new truth has been brought forth, it has been because men have caught enough of the vision from God and have been sufficiently stirred. Listen to that. Sufficiently stirred that they held on to God. In prevailing and persistent prayer. They have prayed until it seemed that by their persistence they have punctured another cloud of heaven's blessings. Something more of God's grace has been brought down to earth because they pressed and touched God. That's our job. That's our job. We're not. God said to me decades ago, he said, there are revelations that belong to this era. He said, but you must labor in prayer to receive them. Notice. Not labor in prayer to get him to give them. He's given. It's about us in the position of the room of the Spirit to hear. That's the labor to get in that place in the Spirit, to hear what that room is carrying. Amen. So notice this when he says that something more of God's grace has been brought down the earth because they pressed and touched God. They're not talking about trying to talk God into something he's given. All these things but we have to position ourselves in skill and in the Spirit to hear. And then he says, as we pray on, we get a clearer vision. Our desires deepen, and thus we pray more and more. So after praying for a while, we see more clearly that we are. That what we are seeking for is a glorious possibility. Every shackle of doubt is shaken from us as we pray and we get the substance of what we've hoped for. Amen. Now this Pentecostal revival, of which you and I find ourselves a part of, has begun an answer to this prevailing prayer. Prayer in perfect accord with the will of God. So when enough people on earth become concerned about God's doing what he wants to look at, that we need to be interested in God getting what he wants. Right. God did it. And there was a great religious awakening. Now we find ourselves moving along with a people who have yielded themselves to the Lord and are hastening toward the day when Jesus shall come back. We are moving along Ezekiel's river to the place where the river is quite deep. We are in the river and the river is in us. Amen. We are part of this great Pentecostal fellowship through which these rivers are supposed to flow. If these rivers are not flowing, then we who have been laid hold upon by God to bring the rivers to the world are damming up the river. Instead of being the channels that God has chosen us to be. Jesus cannot come back until the rivers get there with their benefit to the world. The baptism of the Holy Ghost creates flowing rivers. Every religious movement that God has raised up was intended by God to be flowing rivers. But after they flowed a while, and this is the danger, because we've seen it, this is the danger. After they have flowed a while, instead of actually being part of the flowing current, the human instrumentation becomes a dam across the river. Then God has gone. Then God has gone to work on that dam. He has put the dynamite of the Word in the dam to blow it up and get it out of the way so that the river can flow. And as fast as God dropped sticks of dynamite to blow it up, these men patched it up again and made denominational dams. God waited with patience and tried and tried with his heavenly dynamite to blow out the obstruction. Every once in a while, there would be an explosion here or there on the other side of the dam. Some would get wet, but each time men would patch it back up and the dam would hold back the now are we building a Pentecostal dam? What a responsibility is ours. Thank God for what we see of signs and oh, what God wants to do, What God is prevented from doing because we've thrown a dam across the river. That dam is built of rocks and concrete and all sorts of hard substance, unbelief, sins of every kind. Professionalism, the substitution of psychological and natural methods of doing things instead of absolute dependence upon the Spirit of God. The dam has been thrown across and God is trying to blast it out. And Hebrews 2, verse 4 says this God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, with diverse miracles and gifts of the Holy Ghost according to his will. It is the will of God that the preaching of His Word there should everywhere be confirmation by signs, wonders and miracles and gifts of the Holy Ghost. God is ready to give every pastor and every worker in our fellowship all over the land an urge to rise up against every damage that is blocking the work of God. If we will take the burden upon us, then God will dynamite the dams and we will get word from all around the world that the rivers are flowing. Amen. But somebody must pray. Somebody must get under the burden of God's heart. Somebody must trust God. God is bringing us up into his presence by clearing away obstacles and awakening new desires for himself. If we are satisfied to go out with a preaching message, but not to see the power of God and signs and wonders, then we are out of place. Because God never does anything by word alone. It's Word and Spirit and we're not authorized to preach the Word and then give the Holy Ghost no place to confirm it, no room to confirm it. That's lack of skill with the Word because he confirms the Word with signs following. Perhaps this is holding Jesus from coming back is what he writes. The Word is being preached all right, but the manifestations and signs that should follow are not being seen in fullness. And the reason may be that we measure ourselves by the wrong standard. We may be unwittingly throwing a dam across the Spirit's Pentecostal flow. It is our responsibility to pray until such dams are broken and the signs following are restored. We cannot pray any other way touching this matter and be praying in the will of God. So if we're praying in line with the will of God, this is what we're cooperating with. Have we permitted the construction of some dam? Let us pray until God puts the dynamite of his power under it and blows it to pieces so that the water of the river of Life may gush forth and flow on, bearing the wonderful life of the Spirit to all that is touches. And then what do we know about this river it's talked about in Revelations. And everything lives where the river goes. Everything. Wherever the river goes, everything lives. Everything lives. Amen. Faith is a living thing. Amen. We don't just. We don't just coddle the principles of faith. We really show the spirit of faith the way we live. We have the absolutes in our lives that others may have it, but we're not. Others may. We're not. We're not permitting that in our life. What others conscience lets them do. We only go by what the Holy Ghost has authored. And what's permissible to others is not permissible to us. Amen. Just because the world legalizes it doesn't mean God authorized it. And there are people who have misdefined what it means to live right and live holy because they're going by what the world legalizes because they have lost their way. But we are authorized to let the rivers flow. This river must flow. This river. This river. Not the river of psychology, not the river of emotions, not the river of performance, not the river of popularity. Praise the Lord. Because most people are soulish dominated. They only they are so acquainted with their soul and their feelings, their emotions, and they're being cheated out of the highest flow. And God does not sentence us to the low flow of the soul. He offers us a place with him. Amen. Well, praise the Lord. I went four minutes over, but we're going to stand. With me if you would your feet say this with me. Say, father, we're hungry. We choose to move with the flow of the Holy Ghost because that is the word in manifestation. My husband used to say this because he would have services. Sometimes he'd come right out and he'd just start flowing in the Holy Ghost. And people would say, well, you didn't preach the word. He said, what's wrong with the word being demonstrated? What's wrong with a demonstrated sermon? He always preached the word. He magnified the word. He did not belittle the word, but he just gave place to the Holy Ghost. That the Holy Ghost may want to demonstrate the word and just. Instead of just delivering it in the way we expect. Because the Holy Ghost is so diverse. We're the ones boxed in, not him. Amen. And so say this with me, Father, we're hungry. We have the spirit of faith and faith enough to believe your word and move with your spirit. And we say, we will not dam up what you want to do in this earth. But we open up so that that river can flow. Because this river must flow and it will flow. Through me and my church. And everybody said amen. Hallelujah. Thank God for the Holy Ghost. He is the life giving spirit. The life giving spirit. Amen. Amen. Amen. Hallelujah. We trust you've enjoyed this message. Visit us at defrainministries.org to learn of our upcoming meetings, share your testimony, become a partner or visit our online store. This program has been made possible by the friends and partners of Dufresne Ministries.