Dumb Blonde Podcast: Joel Madden

Summary

Dumb Blonde Podcast: Joel Madden

Date: March 16, 2026
Host: Bunnie XO
Guest: Joel Madden (Good Charlotte)

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid, emotionally rich conversation between Bunnie XO and Joel Madden, frontman of Good Charlotte, successful podcaster, and husband to Nicole Richie. The discussion delves into Joel’s upbringing, career trajectory, approach to fame, and family life. With honesty and vulnerability, Joel shares insights about trauma, healing, parenting, sibling dynamics, and the shifting meaning of fame in today’s world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Joel’s Motivation for Podcasting

Timestamp: 03:49 – 05:46

• Joel reveals podcasting suits his introspective nature and fondness for deep conversations.

  "I’m more interested in probably, like, long conversations than short ones...I’m a pretty emotionally, uh, introspective person." —Joel Madden [03:49]

• He discusses how the format gives an authentic space to connect, especially as he’s become more comfortable with vulnerability over time.

2. The Reality of Aging in Entertainment

Timestamp: 06:00 – 08:50

• Joel and Bunnie dissect what it’s like to hit their mid-40s in today’s culture, as Gen X’ers who refuse to be boxed in by stereotypes or expectations.

  "46 in 2026 is different than 46 in, like, 1996...I feel like I need to be able to be my age. So I make decisions that feel age appropriate." —Joel Madden [06:19, 07:09]

• Joel emphasizes authenticity, choosing to present his true self—on and off stage.
• Touching on generational labels, they clarify Gen X vs. Millennial, joking about chatbots and aging gracefully.

3. Upbringing, Trauma & Religious Background

Timestamp: 10:28 – 15:58

• Joel shares candidly about his strict religious upbringing, household instability, and familial trauma.

  "I think growing up in the middle of nowhere...My mom was super religious. I wasn't allowed to do anything. My dad left when I was young...You can grow up in the same house, a different home." —Joel Madden, with Bunnie XO chiming in [11:47, 13:06]

• He explains how a lack of practical life tools and process affected his transition into adulthood, linking his later struggles with self-esteem and coping skills to childhood conditions.
• Joel and Bunnie bond over the familiarities of religious trauma and echo the importance of healing work.

4. Family Addiction, Mental Health & Breaking Cycles

Timestamp: 17:57 – 27:00

• Joel openly discusses his family’s experience with addiction, mental health, and generational trauma.

  "If you have the extremely religious household with coupled with mental health, addiction and all the other things that were there...it's trauma." —Joel Madden [17:57]

• He recounts fleeing home at 18, learning to spot unhealthy patterns, and the challenge of building his own coping mechanisms.
• Bunnie and Joel talk about boundaries, forgiveness, and the misconception that you must maintain relationships for healing:

  "You can forgive and still never see someone again if you want to." —Joel Madden [25:42]

• Joel has been in therapy for over a decade, advocating the importance of lifelong healing.

5. Building a Healthy Family with Nicole Richie

Timestamp: 29:24 – 38:30

• Joel debunks narratives about “saving” one another with Nicole, emphasizing her strength and integrity as foundational to their relationship.

  "Nicole has always been the person she is today...there's an elegance to being above a narrative that everyone else has chosen for you." —Joel Madden [30:54]

• They discuss keeping their family private and weathering the media tornado of the 2000s:

  "We just tried to navigate it...to protect our family while also being aware that...you're just trying to protect them from the world a little bit." —Joel Madden [36:13]

• On their daughter Kate (formerly known in the press as Harlow Richie Madden), Joel clarifies that her name change was a childhood choice, not a scandal:

  "She's been going by her middle name since...first grade...it's kind of smart, actually. She knows if someone called her Harlow, like, they don't really know her." —Joel Madden [41:10]

6. Musical Roots & Good Charlotte’s Rise

Timestamp: 46:21 – 61:26

• Joel and Benji used music as an escape from family turmoil, forming Good Charlotte in their teenage bedroom with friends and minimal resources.

  "The very first day we started Good Charlotte was just me and Benji in our bedroom...and then we had a dream." —Joel Madden [47:53]

• He describes the early hustle—playing bars, saving for instruments, making demo tapes, and supporting the family from age 14.
• The band’s breakthrough and the relentless work that preceded it are discussed:

  "We just started working on it every day...Regionally getting shows in Philly, in New York, and then by '99, labels were all kind of, you know...then there’s a big thing, bidding war...We signed a big record deal, got in the van, started working." —Joel Madden [54:18, 58:05, 58:06]

7. Reflections on Success, Fame, and Mental Health

Timestamp: 61:26 – 76:55

• Joel offers his perspective on “making it” and how the public-facing narrative rarely captures an artist's internal experience.

  "There's the experience that everyone else is seeing...and then there's the experience you're having." —Joel Madden [61:26]

• He elaborates on the survival mentality during Good Charlotte’s commercial peak. Happiness and sustainability, he believes, come from creative fulfillment, not fame:

  "It's so much more sustainable and enjoyable when you're doing something you love. You can deal with the fame once it gets old. Because it gets old." —Joel Madden [73:41]

• Honest about mental health, Joel never fell into hard drugs (due to their effect on his family) but battled depression and PTSD, sometimes medicating through alcohol:

  "Alcohol was something that I probably abused in some ways without knowing it...so I found that out later because when I started working on myself, any want or need, or...Because I never went out, like, oh, I'm gonna drink. But then I'd find myself in some moments..." —Joel Madden [69:36]

• Fame, for Joel, is context-dependent—he sees it as abstract and advises caution for anyone pursuing notoriety.

8. Relationships, Family, and Defining Legacy

Timestamp: 78:08 – 88:19

• On being Lionel Richie’s son-in-law:

  "What an incredible force of nature...There's a real person there who's got a lot of wisdom...he can't go anywhere in the world without everyone—everyone loves him." —Joel Madden [78:08, 79:12]

• Discusses value of privacy, the costs and realities of fame for those close to him (Nicole, Lionel, Cameron Diaz).
• On his twin brother Benji: their natural leadership dynamic, being opposites in some ways, and balancing each other as dreamer and builder.
• On life without fame:

  "I would just be a dad and a husband and a brother and a friend...I care about being someone my family, friends and people that I meet every day respect. If it got taken, I don’t care." —Joel Madden [85:52, 88:00]

• Ended with warmth, mutual respect, and Joel lauding Bunnie and Jelly Roll for their openness and realness about growth and healing.

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Memorable Quotes

• “You can grow up in the same house, a different home.” —Bunnie XO [13:06]
• “You deserve to have the life you want to have...I really believe in autonomy.” —Joel Madden [25:42]
• “The goal in life is to get to a place where you need nothing because you have yourself.” —Joel Madden [25:52]
• “You don't have to act your age. Like...we're a different breed.” —Bunnie XO [08:23]
• “You can forgive and still never see someone again if you want to.” —Joel Madden [25:42]
• “It's so much more sustainable and enjoyable when you're doing something you love. You can deal with the fame once it gets old. Because it gets old.” —Joel Madden [73:41]
• “Fame isn't real. It's a byproduct of lots of things. You can manufacture fame, you can buy fame...It's a double-edged sword.” —Joel Madden [71:45]

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Notable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Podcasting & Personality: Joel’s approach to podcasts and conversation [03:49]
• Age & Generational Identity: Joke about Gen X, aging, and pop culture [06:19, 08:45]
• Revealing Childhood Trauma: Joel opens up about his family and escape [11:47, 13:54, 22:08]
• Discussion of Addiction: The impact of addiction on Joel’s family [19:15, 69:36]
• Reflections on Parenting: On raising children with awareness and intention [44:05, 45:08]
• Good Charlotte Origins: The grassroots grind; living above a funeral home [54:18]
• Defining Fame: Candid about the reality and costs of public life [61:26, 71:45, 73:41]
• Relationship with Nicole: Dispelling celebrity relationship myths [30:54, 36:13]
• Being Lionel Richie’s Son-in-Law: The awe and unique experience [78:08]
• Life after Fame: Comfort in returning to a simple life [85:52]

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Takeaway

Bunnie XO’s interview with Joel Madden is a study in vulnerability, affirmation, and wisdom. From trauma to triumph, Joel traces an arc from a turbulent Maryland childhood, through worldwide success and public scrutiny, to a grounded, private adulthood focused on authenticity, family, and breaking generational cycles. Both host and guest provide a refreshingly transparent conversation that will resonate with listeners far beyond Good Charlotte fans.

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Note: For brevity, advertisements and sponsor reads have been omitted from the summary.

Transcript

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[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Is this thing on my Y2K heart is beating like a glow stick because I am so excited that Joel Madden is finally on the podcast. Thank you for being here.

[Joel Madden]

Thanks for having me.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Dude. I've, like, I've wanted you on the podcast forever. And then I saw you started your own podcast and I got jealous because I was like, oh, man, he's never gonna get on the podcast now because he has his own.

[Joel Madden]

I was always gonna come to this podcast. I've been following it. I really love what you do, and, you know, I, I, I just think I love this. I love talking.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. What made you start a podcast? Because I got to watch a couple of your episodes because. So Jacoby just came on the podcast.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

And I watched you guys episode together and I was just like, you know what? Joel's made for this. Like, I think you really are made for podcasting.

[Joel Madden]

I think I'm just wired that way. What I do on the podcast is kind of what I do in real life. I'm more interested in probably, like, long conversations than short ones, even though little exchanges are nice. I'm a pretty emotionally. What's the word? Introspective person. So I, like, think a lot.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And I like to analyze a lot.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

It's the Pisces in you.

[Joel Madden]

It's very Pisces. And then I either find myself like a Pisces, there's the lower fish, which is like more like in introverted, and the upper fish, which is extroverted. And I have both, because sometimes I want to talk to someone for a long time, and then if I feel comfortable and I feel like I can be vulnerable because it's a vulnerable thing to do, to ask people questions, and then I don't do well if I don't feel that way so I can close up, which I think actually is the early parts of my career when I didn't really understand myself probably. I probably looked a lot poutier and a lot more like.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Because you were just so introverted.

[Joel Madden]

Because I was so freaked out by having to be extroverted, even though that existed in me.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

So it was like a constant wrestling match between those two. But now I feel like the podcast in the show has given me a really nice outlet to like, talk to people, which I really love to do.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, you do a great job at it. Do you ever get nervous before somebody comes on? Yeah, because I've been doing this eight years and sometimes I still get butterflies in my stomach and what you were just saying, there's sometimes that I will rock a interview and then another time I'll bomb the interview and I'm just like, what happened? And like, I think about it all night long because I'm like, why did I not connect with this person? Do you get like that?

[Joel Madden]

I do. I find it going away more and more and more. Maybe with age. Maybe.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. I'm your. I'm. We're the same age or we're the same age.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

Oh, I thought you were 10 years younger than me.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I wish I will be. After I get the spacelift. I'll be looking 10 years younger.

[Joel Madden]

You're doing great. You're doing great.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

No, I just turned 46 last week.

[Joel Madden]

Happy birthday. Thank you. I like 46.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

It's awesome, right? It's a cool year.

[Joel Madden]

It's great.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I feel like we have enough wisdom, but we're still cool.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. And it's different. 46 in 20. 26 is different than 46 in like 1996.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, it was like Golden Girls era.

[Joel Madden]

It is. It's like I used to think that it was old and maybe it was me or maybe it was actually at the time because of where we were at, but I don't feel like slow at all. And I feel like I'm pretty plugged in. I mean, I have teenagers, so that keeps me in touch, I think. But yeah, I don't know. I think you're as old as you feel maybe.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, absolutely. I tell my whole team, they're all younger than me and I'm just like. I don't feel like I'm 46. I feel like a. Like a. Maybe a 28, 29 year old trapped in my body sometimes because I still have so much energy and like, I don't know, I just.46 to me just doesn't seem old anymore now that I'm here, you know? So do you feel the same way?

[Joel Madden]

I don't feel old at all.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

I mean, and I don't mind being old.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

I'm. No, I'm not hiding.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

You've earned your stripes.

[Joel Madden]

Definitely not hiding my age.

[Podcast Host (Ad Read)]

Right.

[Joel Madden]

But I do feel like I need to be able to be my age. So I make decisions that feel age appropriate. Appropriate, you know, like I don't want to go on stage unless I am 46 on stage.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Joel Madden]

You know what I mean? Right. I don't want to go on stage and prance around and slam guitars around or whatever. Like, like some however you are on stage is how you are. But I do definitely feel like there's something that maybe I thought you could only do it if you were young or something. Maybe. I don't know.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

Now I kind of go, like, if I can be me on stage and I have to pretend anything.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

Then I can still go on stage and. And I think that's how I feel about life. Like.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Joel Madden]

I want to go. If I can't be a 46 year old dad of two teenagers who's. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like our, maybe our, our business or our industry or entertainment or even just maybe it's my thing. It could just be me. Like that's. I'm definitely open to that just being me. But I feel like sometimes the world, it makes you feel like you're supposed to want to be younger or, or look younger.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

It tries to put you in a box. And I'll never let society put me.

[Joel Madden]

I kind of don't mind being old ever.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

No, I don't either because I, I think we make it look good, you know, And I, I don't think there's any reason to ever. What is the word that they, that they use all the time? It's not age shaming, but it's. I forget what it is where they are always like telling you that you have to act your age and it's like, no, you don't have to act your age. Like we are a different breed, you know, like we came, we're gin. What are we? Gen Z, right?

[Joel Madden]

Gen X.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Are we Gen X?

[Joel Madden]

Yeah, we're Gen X is very.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joel Madden]

You're far off from Jen. It goes Gen X, it goes Gen X. Yeah. Millennials. Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Gen Z. Gen Z. Okay. I always get those mixed up. Yeah, yeah. So I always get them mixed up.

[Joel Madden]

I believe Nicole is a millennial.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Is she really?

[Joel Madden]

I think so.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

She's another person who has just aged so beautifully. Still looks young. I mean, like you lucked Out.

[Joel Madden]

You guys got.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

You guys are a hot couple.

[Joel Madden]

We. I got very lucky with her because she's way above my. Yeah, she's smart, she's beautiful, she's classy.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Compliment each other.

[Joel Madden]

So she's. She's a one of a kind. One of like. I just feel like I lucked out with her. But she's a millennial. I say it all the time. You're actually a millennial? 81, I think, is. I think millennials started in 80, so

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I'm 80, so 1980.

[Joel Madden]

So I think you're a millennial.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

No, I think. Are you sure? Give that a goog. We have to check that.

[Joel Madden]

That's chat chip.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Ask Sunny. Where's Sunny? Have you named your chat GPT yet? No, I named mine Sunny. We love her. She's. Well, we think it's a her. We're not sure.

[Joel Madden]

She's 81. That's. What. That's. You're right.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Wow. So I was. I missed it by a year.

[Joel Madden]

You are. You're. You're Gen X, right? And she's a millennial.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yes.

[Joel Madden]

So I don't know why that matters so much, but it does.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Yeah. It just literally just kind of cool. I feel like we aren't, like, we're OG. We're the OGs. We earned our stripes. So let's. Let's. Let's bring it all the way back because, you know, Good Charlotte, just. You guys really paved the way for so many people and especially the genre of music that you guys did, and we were just talking about that whenever we first that, how you guys are like, the OGs. And I.

[Joel Madden]

Nice of you to say.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I appreciate that, but it's. It's real, so. Well, you guys literally have accomplished so much, and for accomplishing so much. As I was researching you last night, I realized how, like, grounded you are and, like, how normal you are. And, you know, when you think of rock stars, you don't think of somebody who is as grounded and, you know, introspective as yourself, which I really admire. But when you really think about it, that's what a real rock star is. As somebody who can lead by example and also show younger generations of how you should be. How does that feel to kind of carry that weight on your. Is it a weight on your shoulder?

[Joel Madden]

I think that's very nice. That's a huge compliment.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

So it's. So I have to say that because I think I live in my own, I think, little reality, which is really small, and I think that's a really good question. I think I was different in my twenties maybe. But I, I, if I. It's a, it's, it's, it's so. It's not an easy answer. Right. Because it's. If I.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

There's layers to it.

[Joel Madden]

There's layers to it. The way, the way. I guess if I'm trying to explain how I feel from my perspective. When you put it that way. Which is really. Which I like, again I said is a really nice compliment. I think I grew up in a very simple place and way and I had a very unique family life. And I think that set me up to probably go in like one or two directions. And so I think growing up in the middle of nowhere. My mom was super religious. I wasn't allowed to do anything. My dad left when I was young. All those things kind of like just the top line stuff. There's, it's a lot more complicated than that. As anyone who knows. Like, like life is so much more complicated and there's so many different. You know, my story will be a bit different than my mom's story. Her perspective. She'd say this. I'd say that my dad would have said this. So I think there's a lot of like everyone's living their own personal life inside of a family life. Even if it's like tragic or troubled.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I always say that you can grow up in the same house, a different home.

[Joel Madden]

Yes.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Because my little sister will tell you a completely different story of growing up. And I'm like, I'm like where did you know? So I get it.

[Joel Madden]

But your experience is yours.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Exactly.

[Joel Madden]

And your memory is yours. And I think you know. So all that to say, by the way, no answer I give you today is going to be short.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

It's okay, I don't mind. I'm a. I like listening to.

[Joel Madden]

I ramble on.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

No, we like it.

[Joel Madden]

But.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Well, let's do this. Let's circle back to where this all started and go back to your home life. Because that's actually a like a little tidbit that I couldn't find cuz I can't find. You don't talk about yourself a lot. You talk about Good Charlotte a lot.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

And when I was researching you last night, I was like, I cannot get anything on this man. Cuz he doesn't really open up so much. So to hear you say that you grew up in a super religious household, like I relate to that. Cuz I grew up in a super Southern Pentecostal house.

[Joel Madden]

Holes. Yeah. We were Like Southern Church of God. Wow. Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. I never knew that about.

[Joel Madden]

Very evangelical.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yes.

[Joel Madden]

And everything was, was, was kind of the foundational belief system was not very cause and effect, you know, because I still have a lot of faith and I would say that I still have religion, but I don't believe in religion as a, as an excuse to. It's not a get out of jail free card.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Joel Madden]

So working on yourself and growing is something that like you're going to do either way because nature is. We grow. But if you learn how to grow and you learn what that even means, you can actually really grow. And so what I found in the kind of religious structure that I grew up in was that was the reason for everything. And so like if you just pray for something, maybe it'll happen. If God loves you. And if he doesn't, man, or it's not. Whatever. And I think there's actually this thing about like building things you can. And so what all that to say is I wasn't raised to know how the world works.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right. It's always heaven or hell.

[Joel Madden]

There's no process.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

It's black or white.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. There's no causality. There's no process.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

So when you're raised in a house like that, you really are not given any tools or information to navigate life. And there's no hope unless coping skills and coping skills and all that stuff. And, and so because any kind of science or, or anything is, is, is, is wrong. Actually not. So if you don't go to a Christian therapist, then you're not going to therapy. Because why would that therapist, who's spent decades becoming an expert on the brain or the emotional or this or that be a trusted source if they don't share the same faith as you?

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Joel Madden]

Which I don't believe. I don't believe that people who don't share the same faith can't.

[Podcast Host (Ad Read)]

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[Joel Madden]

Cooperate and help one another and absolutely. You know and, and, and so all that to say that. So if you have the extremely religious household with coupled with mental health, addiction and all the other things that were there that contradict each other, it's a very. And then also poverty. So you have money problems, you have addiction problems, you have mental health problems and then you have overtones of like explicit religious. All that is like the religious trauma. Right? It's trauma. It's like the perfect.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Because I have it too.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. So it's the perfect recipe for someone to go forth into the world with a bunch of baggage, a bunch of issues, a bunch of unresolved things, a bunch of questions and no know how in how the world works and how life works and how what process is and how to. How does success work and then also low self esteem because when you know also neglect in the house. There's all kinds of stuff in the house. So there was just a big messy bag of stuff there and then I think we left home fled home essentially at like 17, 18.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Can we pause right there for a second? When you talk about addiction and mental health, mental health in the household are you talking about yourself or your parents?

[Joel Madden]

Okay, so you're talking about my family. So my dad.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

So it does run in the family.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Because you're very open about your mental Health, too. And I love that about you.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. My dad was an alcoholic. Who. He died from it. My family members, which I don't feel it's important to say who.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right, right.

[Joel Madden]

For their own sake. And. But lots of everybody. So many people were addicted to everything. So there was. There's. There's all kinds of every kind of addiction.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

So you had so many examples of things you didn't want to be or things that you were going to be very aware of.

[Joel Madden]

And I couldn't make sense of them until I was older and I saw addiction play out in my career with other people. Because when you go into music, there's tons of addicts around. It's a very. It's a. A. It's a industry that's very addiction friendly and so of all kinds. So I was so surrounded and immersed in addiction growing up that it was a very familiar. So I also found myself being very attracted to and comfortable with addicted people. So that was kind of my comfort zone because it was like normal.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

What you call home.

[Joel Madden]

And it's home for you healthy people. I was like, safe.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

It's a.

[Joel Madden]

Are you get away from me.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

You know, because safety feel to somebody who has gone through trauma. Like, you have somebody safe. It like sets off the alarms. We're like, why is there no chaos going on? We need to tear some up in here, you know?

[Joel Madden]

Yes. And so leave home.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

So you got. You said you guys fled from home.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

What does that entail? Because I fled from home too, at 14.

[Joel Madden]

So my brother had ran away. My older brother had ran away when I was about 15. And we were very close, so it was very painful. And then my. My mom and us were always moving because we were always kind of. My dad had left, which was also very painful, and I was very angry. And then my mom, who struggled with a lot of health and mental health and all that, really struggled to keep it together. So we were always moving all the time. There was like, we get a dick, we get evicted, or we have to live with someone or living with some people from church. Or we're like. So we're moving around. And I got very good at, like, moving in. Like, we had this like, astro minivan that, like, only two of the doors worked and the back doors and we would like, load all our in and we would move. And it was like, literally like trash bags, a suitcase, like, boxes.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I still pack my houses in trash bags, you know?

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Like, put it all in the trash bags.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah, some nice trash bags now, but

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

yeah, they're Strong as hell.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah, I'm very good at moving. Yeah. But I'm also like very skittish about houses and moving and stuff, so it's funny. I've worked on it though.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

When you say skittish, what do you mean by that? Like, is like something freak you out in the house or do things have to be a certain way?

[Joel Madden]

I don't unpack for a very long time.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Oh, because you don't feel safe enough.

[Joel Madden]

I don't feel like it's real. And it's so funny cuz we just built our like forever home, like our dream home. And it took us a long time. Nicole's very loving, very patient, but she's had to deal with stuff. I don't think she's. She, she's very compassionate, but she doesn't always understand. And over the years she's gotten to. Cuz she knows me and she knows my story. And so that's what we do with our partners. We learn them and you learn their little quirks and they come from stuff, you know?

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And she's been very patient. But I always have to have one room in the house that's like still in boxes and it's stuff I can't and it's stuff I won't throw away or stuff, you know, and it's funny because like she's, it's, it's like mine's

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

like your thing, but we have, we

[Joel Madden]

have it like it's a beautiful house. But don't go in that room.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Skip Joel's room.

[Joel Madden]

Joel's room. But it's like it's been work. I've been working it out and like we're in a good place with it and it's like it's, it's, it's contained.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

You deserve to unpack.

[Joel Madden]

Yes.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

You know, like you got to tell. You got to go back and hug your inner child and, and let them know that you deserve to unpack.

[Joel Madden]

Absolutely. And, and I've been, you know, I've been in therapy now for 13, 14 years and that's how long it takes for a lot of this stuff.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Healing is not overnight. And I preach that on this podcast so much. I'm still. I feel like we're never healed. I feel like our journey is to learn and to just keep healing through life. Like it doesn't matter if I conquer one thing, it the next thing pops up, you know? So I just feel like it's, we're always on this journey to learn and to teach people what we're Learning along the way.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. I think. I think it's self esteem, you know, I think it's when you grow up in a place where there's a lot of unsafety or confusion or instability or whatever it is, and your parents are trying their best or maybe they're not. I don't know. I think mine did. I think mine were. My. My parents were honest people with a lot of problems, and you have to

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

think of how they were raised and how they were. I've had to put myself out with

[Joel Madden]

my parents and generational trauma.

[Podcast Host (Ad Read)]

Exactly.

[Joel Madden]

Is a real thing.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Which is not an excuse.

[Joel Madden]

No.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

For their behavior, because we're breaking generational curses. But at the same time, it does give. It helps us to heal. To think of it in that aspect.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. I don't think of anything as excuses. I think it's just information.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right. Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

That's helpful to understand what that thing is, why that person is. It doesn't mean I have to accept. It doesn't mean I have to be around it. It doesn't mean I have to. I can deal with it or not. It does. That's the thing. The lie is that we have to, like. Like, we have to, like, make things work or, like, we have to forgive or forgive or accept. Like, you can forgive and still never see someone again if you want to.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Absolutely.

[Joel Madden]

I really believe in autonomy, and I think that you deserve to have the life you want to have and live in and.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

And protect your peace at whatever cost it is.

[Joel Madden]

And have boundaries and. And I think the goal in life is to get to a place where you need nothing because you have yourself.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And that takes. There's like, a piece of, like. Like, you want to have deep, connected, meaningful relationships, but you want, like. I want that. Let's say, like, with my marriage, you want to have a. You want to be together, but you both have to want to be together.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right. You choose each other.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

That's what Jay and I say. We choose each other every day.

[Joel Madden]

Absolutely. You know, it's. It's more complicated. I probably make it sound like it's. But. But, like. Because there's no.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I love that you said that. Because I think a lot of the youth needs to hear that, because especially with this healing culture that we have, like, on TikTok and all that stuff, everybody is, like, forcing forgiveness down people's throats. And I think somebody needs to say it, like, guess what? You don't ha. You can forgive, but you can also forget that person, and they don't have to be in your life.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Or.

[Joel Madden]

And. And forgive is even such a. Such a specific word, like you can make peace with it.

[Podcast Host (Ad Read)]

There you go. Even better.

[Joel Madden]

You know what I mean?

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And you can you. That version of. Whatever you want to call it, forgiveness is more like. You don't have to carry it with you always.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yes.

[Joel Madden]

You know, and so that being said, I. I came to the. I think I came to the realization with my parents that I. I didn't feel I needed to forgive them because I actually didn't think they did anything wrong. I think they were negligent and that they didn't know what they were doing. And I came to an understanding of them that made me really love them. And that's powerful. It is. And. But I can also be honest with them.

[Podcast Host (Ad Read)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And show them what I've learned and hope that they could. I also believe in sharing something if we figured something out with people. So if we figured something out that worked for us or some information that. That really enlightened us that we should share it. And, like, that's if I have a great relationship with my mom now, because it's very honest and I can share with her. I was like, hey, I. I kind of realized this, and then she can take it. I'm like, do it. Don't you need to tell me what you think about. Just take that and meditate on it and see, like, maybe you'll. Something will come to you on it. And like, we have a very kind of. We've. We've got an evolved relationship. And then my dad, we had a really great relationship. We reconnected and we reconciled the last 10 years of his life, and we had a really nice. I really loved it. I had got so much joy out of it when I had been angry at him for so long, but I came to understand him. Him, you know, and accept him. And, and, and. And then I think I got a lot out of that because I think I have a really nice relationship with my kids. And it's like a living vicariously because I'm getting to feel what, like, that relationship would have felt like.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

You're going to be the dad you never got.

[Joel Madden]

Right. And it's cool.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Which I want to talk about that later, too, because I. I love, love, love, love how you and Nicole kind of like. I don't know if the word saved each other is the. The right terminology, but it just seems like when you guys united as one, you literally just became the best versions of yourself and the best parents. And that is because she was going down one trajectory. You were going down one trajectory. And then it's like, you guys have your baby girl and you know, somebody asked earlier, what's Nicole doing? I said, she's being a mom, dude.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I was like that. And that's like the coolest thing you can do. I'm sure she's doing more than that. But it's like, that's like the co that you could say about Nicole Richie and you is that you guys literally just really buckled down with each other and just created this safe space of your family.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah, I, I think, I appreciate that. It's just sacred ground.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

So, you know, the narrative is going to be the narrative. I'm super aware of the way the world works and the narrative of, of what Nicole or who she was before the, the, the. The us. Right. Because I understand also we live in. People are interested in, in these things. I don't fight it. But I, I do. I will say that Nicole has always been the person she is today.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

So I'm very, I'm very. I'm her biggest fan and I was the. From the first time I met her because I see someone who's very strong and has been through a lot and has the integrity and the self respect above to not have. Feel like I, I what? I don't know the word, but it's like there's an elegance to, and a bit of a class to being above a narrative that everyone else has chosen for you. And she was never that narrative. Right. Regardless of some mistakes that she made when she was young. Like everyone, they got to run. Run wild with them in that time

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

period because it was so disrespectful.

[Joel Madden]

It was very disrespectful to women.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

The women were not protected.

[Joel Madden]

They were not. And at the time, we all saw it too. Like at the time, like that was. It was. But there was no, there was no way. The public didn't have a say. So the narrative would become the narrative and the people in that were reading it could participate in it or they could be like, I don't believe that. And certainly just like. But now people can say it. So things can build and there can become like the court of public opinion is real now. Now.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

Where it wasn't really back then. Like there was, there was no social media. So whereas today when there's a narrative that feels like maybe that's not the whole story.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

People can speak up and there's like these tick tock sleuths and there's people you know, there's all this stuff.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I'm gonna tell you what. Tick Tock is like the FBI.

[Joel Madden]

You can really find out. You could really. Yeah. You could really like. So that being said, the person that I met that it's the person that I'm with.

[Podcast Host (Ad Read)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And so I didn't save her.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

At the time I also think we were young, we were in our 20s and, and I was especially emotionally still like really underdeveloped and like not functioning as high as I, I, I was immature. Right. And so I had my own work to do. But, but I think. It was very clear and easy when you meet the person that you love and when you have the, the things that I valued always at my core was like, I want to meet a nice girl and, and settle down and have some kids and hopefully have a nice family. It was kind of the dream I always had because I didn't know what that felt like. Right. And so it of like a, a far fetched dream for me, but I still kind of like really hoped for it and, and then, you know, we got together and we had our kids and we now 19 years, or this year will be 20 years in like December.

[Podcast Host (Ad Read)]

Crazy.

[Joel Madden]

It'll be 20 years since we, you know, met.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. And which in Hollywood that is unheard of.

[Joel Madden]

You know, crazy.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

It happens. But it's very rare that you guys have this long lasting love. And I think how protective you are over her, like interview that I've seen. You're always very protective of her and like, I don't know, you guys just didn't live your lives out loud. You guys kind of like sheltered yourselves and I, you can see the big shift when you guys get together. So yeah. Maybe saved each other wasn't the right word. But in a sense you guys really buckled in with each other. Whether you guys went through behind closed doors, none of it got leaked. Like nobody knows any of the drama. And I think that's so cool because that's almost impossible to do with people that are of you guys a stature.

[Joel Madden]

I agree. I, but I also like, I don't

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

know how we did it, but I

[Joel Madden]

think like, you know, I think you guys are probably the same.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Oh honey, I listen, I blast our shit everywhere, but I own what we've been through, you know, and like I talk about my past and I talk about things that my husband and I have been through, but I think you

[Joel Madden]

guys are coming from a, when you share, I think you're coming from a place of helping people.

[Podcast Host (Ad Read)]

Absolutely.

[Joel Madden]

And that's it. There's a lot of. So I think this is the same kind of integrity. Yeah, I. I don't think that. I think that we're. We live in the world. We're completely aware of how. Of what the world is. And we know that not if we're not protective of our. Our kids and our family, that everyone else can just run a run can tell stories that'll get memorialized and become things that like, even when you look on our, like, Wikipedia pages, they're not. Half of it's like, you know what I mean? But like, that's what people do. They like, look up and they go, oh, this, this. They get information. And you're like, man, like, half of that's just kind of like, what oppressive. A tabloid story was a headline and then it got. Someone added it in or something. I don't know exactly how it works, but it's like, kind of bullshit.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And I think you. You become acutely aware of. Of what could. When you're responsible for your kids, especially, like, you're just kind of like you're just trying to protect them from the world a little bit. And at the same time, you're trying to teach them how the world works and how we have to move through the world. And it's not because we think we're this or we think we're that. We're just aware of it.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. And it's respectable, though, how you guys do move.

[Joel Madden]

Thank you. I think we just kind of manage that part of our life as like a stressor that we just try to manage with care and like. Like, you don't get it. All right. I think when we were younger, we were like. We felt like we had to do some things that we. Now looking back at the time, it was different. But now looking back, you're like, I wouldn't have done a magazine of our wedding or our baby pictures, but at the time, it felt that was like

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

the thing to do back then.

[Joel Madden]

Well, also, they were hunting you, so you were kind of managing. You didn't have Instagram to go like, okay, here's the picture now. They was just felt like it was this big tornado of just trying it. So it was like a weird thing to.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

It was like you had to do it or they were going to do

[Joel Madden]

it or they were going to do it and you couldn't control it. And it was like. It was just weird.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

It was bullied. The paparazzi bullied.

[Joel Madden]

They did. They ran. You know, they were with Nicole. I remember when she Was at the time, I think my son had just been born and he was in the. Like, it was like weeks after he was born, a paparazzi rear ended her at a stoplight to try and have to get her out of the car. Like, they did that.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Wow.

[Joel Madden]

It was crazy at the time.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Like the baby in the car.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

That's insane. If they did that now, they would

[Joel Madden]

get arrested and no, no one give a about it.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Wow.

[Joel Madden]

Now there's like, there's, there's, there's. There's been enough, like lawsuits. There's been enough. And there's public outcry when people see something wrong. And. And that actually does affect how people move. How people move?

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And what things could go to court or not, like literally just on. Based on if something picks up steam or whatever. Like, that is real. Like the social media of it all is a real thing. So at the time, no one give a about that. And yeah, she'd even complain about it. It was up. But she was just like, you know, those kinds of things. That was the time. The 2000s, the early 2000s, was like insane. Was insane like that. But anyways, I. We digress. I think that, like, we have always just tried to navigate it because. To protect our family while also kind of being aware that. That if we complain about it, we would. You're. You can't just be so out of touch that like, you, you can't feel sorry for yourself because it's not. That's not how we feel. It's been more just like, try to protect as much as you can so that your family has a shot at like, some form of like a nice private life where your kids get to just grow up and be as normal as possible. Even though I wouldn't say it's been totally normal.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

How do you feel about your daughter being in the press lately for wanting to change her name?

[Joel Madden]

Well, that's the thing too is like that again, like, that's a narrative everybody ran away with because it gets clicks if you. I even saw it and I was like, oh my God. Like, I think it was like the Daily Mail or something. Was like her transformation. She's been going by her middle name since she was in like, like first grade. Like, she chose it. She went to school one day, she came home or we went to. We went to the open house night or whatever. And the teacher was like, Kate's doing great. She's so nice. And we're like, who's Kate? And they're like, your daughter Kate. That's what she said her name was. We're like, oh, she's going by her middle name now. And then we went home. We're like, you. You go by Kate at school. And she goes, yeah, I like it. And we were like, okay, great. And then we. We. Everyone who knows her calls are Kate. As long as you've known Kate. If you've known her since she was seven. Yeah, she's been Kate.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I love that you guys accepted it, though. Be herself.

[Joel Madden]

Her name is beautiful, by the way. Middle name.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, I thought it was cool.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. I always thought, I want to get it tattooed. Her name tattooed on my neck. But, like, it wasn't a big deal. It was just like, oh, cool. Like, that's. That's cute. You're going by your middle name. That's sweet. And then there was no discussion. It wasn't a big deal.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And then as long as you know, for 11 years now, she's gone by Kate. So everyone knows her as Kate. If you know her, you know she's Kate.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Joel Madden]

And people that don't know her would call her Harlow. And it was always kind of funny because, like, she. It's kind of smart, actually. She. She knows, like, if someone called her Harlow, like, they don't really know her.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And it's kind of like her alias a little bit. Yeah. But she just did that when she was in first grade, and it was never even a discussion, so that headline just popped up. So they made it a headline because that was. I think that was, like, probably the most interesting thing about her turning 18.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

Was. Oh, I didn't think the world going like, who's Kate? Because they've always called her Harlow.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

But I think because she hasn't been out there, maybe it's interesting, but it's just funny. No one in our. We. None of us cared. She doesn't care.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

But it was funny because, like, it's a big deal. She's 18, you know, she's extremely. She's such a nice girl. Yeah, she's really smart. She's a lot like her mom. She's.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

She is her twin.

[Joel Madden]

She's a Kurt. Yes. She's. She's beautiful like her mom. She's smart. She's sharp. She's. She's incredibly talented with, you know, what she loves, which is, like, fashion and design and things like that. She's a great eye, and I'm excited to see what she does, what she chooses to do.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

What is it like being a dad? Like what? Like becoming a father. Just, you know, and we're gonna get into the Good Charlotte stuff like that. But I just, I want to get to know you, you know? You know, you're this rock star and you're having these babies and you have a little girl to start. Like, what is that? Like when you hold your little girl for the first time.

[Podcast Host (Ad Read)]

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[Joel Madden]

I've always been in awe of her. Ever since she was born, I've been in awe of her. She's. She's really special. And I felt incredibly. Always felt incredibly. What's the word?

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Lucky.

[Joel Madden]

Lucky is a word, but it's beyond that. I feel I've always been in awe of her. She's special. I've always, like, ever since she was born, first time I held her, I was the first person to hold her and I knew she was special and I felt in awe of that and that I got to be the person who gets to say I'm her dad and to call her my daughter. I feel like it's been. I always say, like, my kids have made it extra. They've made it so easy to be a dad. They are such easy people. They're. They're. And so it's. It's not. Not been some big sacrifice to be their dad.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Well, they're a product of their environment.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. And it feels to Me like I was given a gift from God, these kids, because they are really cool, easy, fun, and they make me. They make me happy, they make me smile, they make me. And, and I've never worried about them. I mean, you worry when they're little about out. Maybe they're you just big. Becoming a parent is, is can be nerve wracking or whatever and you just want to keep them safe and all that. But they're so smart. They know who they are. And I always give their mom Nicole is. Nicole's like that. When you get to know her, you're not, you're not worried about her. She's. She's so sharp and she's so strong and I feel like they got that.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

She gives off those vibes for sure.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

She doesn't give off any damsel in distress vibes.

[Joel Madden]

No, she's. She's definitely doing what she wants. And I feel like my kids got all that from her.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

So I, I just feel lucky. I feel like I've been the luckiest guy in the world with my wife and kids.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I love hearing you talk about your family. So let's circle back to you. Fleeing home. That's where we left off.

[Joel Madden]

Fled home.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

How old were you when you left home?

[Joel Madden]

I think it was 18. Just turned 18.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Okay, so you guys had already started the band though. Didn't you start the band at 15?

[Joel Madden]

Yes.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Okay, so take me into the bedroom with you and Benji forming this band. Where did music come into play for you guys? Was that your escape?

[Joel Madden]

Yeah, I think it was really hard at the time. My dad had left a lot of turmoil in the house, a lot of money problems. School was hard and I think music was. And you know, it's tough like you're a teenager and like you're just trying to figure out who you are. And you know, I'm not a huge guy, but I was especially not like tall or, or cool when I was 15, so I don't think any of us were.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, I was like, we're trying to figure ourselves out.

[Joel Madden]

So I think when we started to discover music and it really. I felt like for the first time when I found these bands and stuff, I started to identify with like. Like I could dress that way and feel cool and it's like an alter ego. Yeah. And the music made me feel cool and it gave me somewhere. I think it gave us somewhere to escape to where it felt like there was also like. Immediately we started dreaming immediately. The very first day we started Good Charlotte was just me and Benjin Arbor Bedroom.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

We're like, we're going to start a band. And we started thinking of names, and we came up with Good Charlotte. And. And then we had a dream. And then we were f. Fully focused on that, and it was like, escape from all the stuff. And then that became the mission. And then I think the mission gave us a lot of hope and a lot of purpose. And we just started working on it every day. We started writing songs. If we weren't writing songs, we were looking at. We were reading magazine articles. We were. Were trying to figure out how to they do it. And we were like, from day one, we were focused on, like, how do you do that? We're gonna do it. Figuring it out. Then we found our band members. Paul, our bass player, were these childhood friends. They were just in school. We were asking around, is anyone, like,

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

anybody can join the band?

[Joel Madden]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew his sister. And then he was. He was a great. Under us. And he. He was a bass player and like, do you want to be in our band? And he was like, sure. That's it. Our first band practice, and it was like, that we're just putting it together. And I think it just.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

What was that first practice like? Because I'm sure you guys. Did you guys have any musical experience?

[Joel Madden]

No, we had no.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

So you guys were just in the garage just hammering away on whatever.

[Joel Madden]

We didn't have any instruments. Then we got a guitar. This, like, shitty guitar. And Paul taught Binge, like, three chords. Oh. And then Bench had three chords, and we started writing songs with those. And then a guy at church gave us, like, a bass. And we had a little karaoke machine and this, like, old little karaoke machine that had tapes, and we would, like, plug a guitar and a mic in and we would make little songs on it. And that's how we wrote our first songs.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Wow.

[Joel Madden]

And it was crazy.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Kids these days could never even imagine.

[Joel Madden]

No.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

The shit that we had to improvise and come up with.

[Joel Madden]

The amount of work that it took.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

It takes. Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

To even just get places.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yes, yes, yes. Because now you can make a video and it goes viral and you have a record deal.

[Joel Madden]

You do it on your phone.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. It's crazy, but back in the day, like, you guys had to do what you guys did.

[Joel Madden]

It was so hard. But it wasn't hard at the time.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Joel Madden]

It was exciting.

[Podcast Host (Ad Read)]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

But if you do something that gave you hope.

[Joel Madden]

Yes. But if you said, okay, now you have to go back and do it again, the same way I'd be Like, hell no, I'm not doing that.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Yeah, well, because you were on the journey. You were just. You were. You had those blinders on and you were just like, I have a goal and this is what I'm gonna do.

[Joel Madden]

Yes.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

So take me on this journey, you guys form Good Charlotte. You guys are in the garage making music. You and Benji, you know, twins, best friends, I'm assuming, obviously. And we'll talk. Yeah, we'll talk about you guys relationship in a minute. But take me on this journey with Good Charlotte because I love the fact that you guys picked out the name Good Charlotte. Because just for my. You know, my husband's been in the music industry a long time, I've been around the music industry a long time, and I've never heard one bad word about you guys.

[Joel Madden]

Oh, really?

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I have all he said. Oh, really?

[Joel Madden]

That's a nice to hear.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

No, I swear, I always hear how you guys are always trying to lift people up and always trying to help people. That's one thing I've always heard about you guys.

[Joel Madden]

I'd agree with that.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Which I think is really cool. I love. Like I was saying, I love that you came up with the name Good Charlotte. But so take me on this journey of leaving home. You guys are 18. You're still doing Good Charlotte. Are you playing shows? Where are you at in this moment?

[Joel Madden]

It. So at that point, we had the band for a couple years. We were graduating high school. Barely.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Just so you know, I'm looking at notes over here. I'm not over here playing like.

[Joel Madden]

No, I like that. That's smart.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Or anything.

[Joel Madden]

That's very smart. I should have one of those for my podcast.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Oh, it's the best.

[Joel Madden]

Taking notes.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

You sit there and you just scroll through.

[Joel Madden]

How's my mic level?

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Does it have to be so low? I'm so used to hiding behind my microphone at my desk.

[Joel Madden]

I like to hide.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Me too. I sh. She'll be. I'll be in the middle of the interview and she'll be like, put the mic down. And I'm just like, right here.

[Joel Madden]

I'm a detailed guy. Yeah. When you come to my set, which you have to come sometime, every angle has been carefully toiled over, curated.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

That's how I am too.

[Joel Madden]

I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna lie about it.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

So we're 18. We're going on this journey with. You guys have had the band for a little while.

[Joel Madden]

So we were 18. I think we had just graduated, which barely happened. My mom really wanted me to graduate and I was. I was. I'm. I have all kinds of learning disabilities and ADHD and all that stuff. You know, the. The creative stuff and. But at the time, you know, in Southern Maryland, you're. There's not a lot of, you know,

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

back then, resources for Back that time frame, nobody cared that we couldn't fucking pay attention. In school. I was the same way. I literally could not. I would rock back and forth in my desk like I just couldn't do it.

[Joel Madden]

And getting an understanding of, like, dyslexia, learning stuff. ADHD in my older life helped me actually understand and be way better. Had I learned it then, I think I would have excelled in. In and really. But it's a different time. So anyways, barely graduate. We're getting evicted for like. Like the last time. And we kind of just say to our mom, we're gone. You just take care of. Our sister. Was still at home. My younger sister, who's a year and a half, two years younger. And so we just left and we. We lived down in that. Really far down in the country. And we, like, walked down this, like, country road to this country store that was at the end of the road. And there was a payphone and we called because there's no cell phones. At least we didn't have one at the time.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Well, I think we had beepers back then.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah, there was beepers. We didn't have them, but, like, they. That were beepers. We called my friend who had a car. He came and picked us up. We went and stayed at his house. And then. And then we started figuring it out. We, like, we. I remember our first little apartment we got because we always worked jobs, so I always had to help. We always had to help our mom with the bills and stuff. So we were always working like 40 hours a week, like since we were 14. Wow. So we always worked. So there was that. That was like, never heavy.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Heavy load to carry as a teenager.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah, it was. It was. It was. At the time, it was just all we knew. And I really loved working, so I actually really enjoyed my jobs.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

So like, we worked at a pizza place. I worked at Food Lion. I worked at Golden Corral. I worked at all these places. And I actually really enjoyed it because I love working. So I felt like I was doing something and then, like, paying bills and stuff made me feel really good about myself, so I never minded working. And my dad worked really hard my whole life. I remember just. He always working. He was like. He was a butcher, and then he would paint houses on the weekends. And he was always doing stuff, like side jobs. And so I always, like, understood, like, you have to just work. And so we left home. We got an apartment over a funeral home. It was like this little, shitty little apartment they rented out. Like, they had, like, two or three little apartments above this, like, funeral home. And this family, like, it was really weird.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Were they cooking people down below?

[Joel Madden]

They were, like, preparing bodies, like.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Like, were they cremating them too?

[Joel Madden]

Maybe. I don't know.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Does it smell like refried beans? You know, because I've heard that before.

[Joel Madden]

I don't know. I think I blocked it out. But it was like our first apartment.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

But, I mean, congratulations for sure.

[Joel Madden]

And it was weird. And they had, like a. An. They had like, an adult son who lived in one of them who. Who managed the apartments. But he was a drug addict and he was, like, weird, and he's, like, partying every night and he would get, like, out of his mind on, like, whatever. And he would, like, beat on our door. Oh, no. It was, like, very traumatic. We had never. We hadn't even been out in the world.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

And, like, we're like, we're going back home. Fuck this.

[Joel Madden]

Anyways, we. We. We start living on our own and we just start. The whole focus is good Charlotte. Everything is about good Charlotte. So we're working jobs and we're. We ended up moving up to Annapolis, Maryland, where we. Where there was a lot of bars. So we started playing all the bars, and that's that. We moved up there for that because there was like, a local, like, music, like, bar scene. And we started playing acoustic sets at bars all the time. And we were were saving our money. We were buying band equipment, we were booking shows, and we just started trying to make it. It was the 90s, you know, so it was all very. Make a demo tape. You're passing it out, you're. And then somewhere in there, we started to kind of like build a little local following, you know, And. And. And. And then we. We. And stayed on it and we. We built this kind of local thing. And then we started getting, you know, like, opening slots locally. When they needed to sell a few hundred more tickets at this venue for this band, they would throw us on shows locally because we started kind of. And then from there we started regionally getting shows in Philly, getting shows in New York. And we started, you know, making our way on the east coast playing. And then. And then. And by 99, the labels were all kind of, you know, one label guy had found our thing, gave it to another guy. So then by 99, we were. We were like some. We were. We were made a name for ourself. And then the typical kind of classic local radio station plays us all the labels, then kind of jump. Then there's a big thing, bidding war, all that stuff, and we end up getting signed. Signed. And we signed to Sony back in, like, 99. And. And then we just never let up.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

Once we got that opportunity, but on their necks. Yeah, we just. That was easy work from the jobs we had had and the hours we put in at our real jobs. The opportunity to get to make a living and, you know, we signed a big record deal, signed a big publishing deal, bought our mom a place, and then just got in the van, started working.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Nobody knows what the van is like. I'm telling you, Jay and I had a van too, when we first started off. And it is rough.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah, it's real. It's real. You're just. You're, you're, you're, you're, you're. You're slogging it out. And then by 2002, you know, we had our second record. That's the one that everyone kind of knows us for.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Well, in 2000, you guys started getting a buzz with the song Little Things.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

And that's kind of where you guys got your buzz. And then you opened up for. Was it Blink 182? It was that like, your big first break, or did I misread that somewhere?

[Joel Madden]

Well, we did open for Blink on in, like, on, like, a local show. I would say probably contribute. It's one of the bricks. I think there was a bunch of that. We got offered the lit tour when they were doing the east coast. We did that. We did Eve 6. We did a bunch of, like, those radio bands in the 90s, all that. All that stuff. So we were doing all that stuff and. Oh, yeah, I would say those were, like, all big breaks.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Take me into the album of lifestyles and the Rich and Famous because, I mean, this is when you guys exploded everywhere. I mean, you couldn't look anywhere. And there wasn't. Can we bring guyliners back?

[Joel Madden]

Mtv. MTV era.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Do you wear eyeliner anymore?

[Joel Madden]

No.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Damn it. I love guy liners. Like, I'm from that era, though. I'm from the 80s hair band, you know, Like, I love guy liners. And every time I talk about guyliners on the podcast, everybody's always like, what's a guy liner? I'm like, you had to have lived it.

[Joel Madden]

You had to be there.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

You had to have been there.

[Joel Madden]

We did it. We did it.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Were you guys inspired from the 80s hair bands with the guyliner stuff?

[Joel Madden]

No.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

No. Was it more punk?

[Joel Madden]

It was like, punk thing.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joel Madden]

It was like. Yeah. I don't know what it was. It was just like, guess that's how. How I felt.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Bring it back, Bring it back. I love it.

[Joel Madden]

You know, you get it all messy, like you've been crying.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Oh, love it.

[Joel Madden]

Something like that.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yep. Don't get me excited over here.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

All right, so Lifestyles of the Rich and famous was 2002 from Young, the Young and the Hopeless. Take me on this journey, because this is where you guys pretty much, like, catapult. Where are you, like, mentally, all of that?

[Joel Madden]

I think we had been running so hard and so fast at it that when it. When that record broke through, I don't know if we even looked up to understand or realize at the time. Obviously, now at my age, I understand how big that moment was, and it was big, but it was. So the years we spent before, which I think most artists that have had this experience could probably relate to, is we were so relentlessly working towards success.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

And you guys were in survival mode.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah, and we were in survival mode. And then there's two parts, right? There's the experience that everyone else is seeing. So you're watching it on mtv or you're seeing it. Even if you're in the industry and you're in another band and you watch a band, all that is just the perception of someone else. It's the experience everyone else is seeing. And then there's the experience you're having. And then there's layers to that.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yes.

[Joel Madden]

Because I think the short answer everyone wants to hear is like, yeah, it was great. Great. And it was.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, I don't want to hear that. I want to hear the real stuff.

[Joel Madden]

But I think we were so overwhelmed and also so afraid of losing it. When we got it, it was almost like we caught a whale and we were just holding on to try and. And. And. And that was the. I think that's the. The. The perception of if this is just dumb luck. Right. Which is not.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Do you think every artist has that? Because I know my husband goes through that also, where it's like, you. There was a moment where he ran himself into the ground because he was just chasing. You know, and he. You kind of have to step back. Did you have that moment, too, where you were, like, running yourself into the ground, trying to chase this dream?

[Joel Madden]

We Ran oursel into the ground many times. I don't think we were old enough or mature enough enough to actually think we could step back.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

So one of the things I think when I see another artist having great success is my two thoughts. I always think, I always go, oh, that's great. Second thought is, oh man, I hope they're okay. You know, cuz there's the. If you're not, if you, if you don't. Let me, let me think about how to say it, because I, I'm not. No one should ever be conflicted about their success because they earned it. But they should be thoughtful and they should give themselves the space to decide what, what they want to do, how they want to participate, how fast do they want to go, how much do they want to do and not feel like they owe their success anything.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

How long did it take you to figure that out?

[Joel Madden]

Like probably I was 40.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. So I think one of the, you know, one of the things I love about your husband is I think he had to take a long winding road to get to his success. So I do think he is more aware of. I think he's more mature and so he can actually stop. Even though it's hard to sometimes because you're overwhelmed by the, the, the, the. The flow of information is just so much. The deal flow is so wide and, and, and far and reaching and it's all coming at you from all the, that the experience of, of success feels something like that. It's like it's coming at you from all angles and, and you don't want to, you know, the old saying, make hay while the sun shines is real. Like there is a real, there's opportunistic moments where you have to take a, you have to, you have to be in that moment and you want to be ready and able to capitalize on opportunity and, and what other people will call luck is more just like you were down, going down the road for so long and then you hit this moment where all the work you did stacked up and there was like a momentum thing. There's a bunch of things you have to have talent, you have to have, have smarts, you have to have work ethic. You have to have all that to get to that moment. And then, and then you want to be able to show up for that moment, but then that moment can overwhelm you. So you do have to find a dance and you do have to be aware of, of like, of what makes you happy. You know, you have to be aware of yourself. And you have to be able to take a knee here and there so that you don't burn out and just completely implode and become bitter or become so passive aggressive because you don't feel like you have a choice or become a shell of a person because you've just given everything to the world. And, and so I think the, that's the complicated nature of, of, of fame, success and all of that wrapped up. Right?

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

So in your 20s, I think this is the good part about it happening in your 20s, you're kind of naive.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. And I feel like more, More resilient.

[Joel Madden]

More resilient in that way because you're.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I don't know, it just doesn't sink in.

[Joel Madden]

Oh, there's more novelty in your 20s, right? In your 40s, there's less novelty.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Joel Madden]

So, you know, it's all novel. In your 20s, you've, you, you haven't seen anything. Anything.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Joel Madden]

And especially us, we were from nowhere, so we had never been on a plane until we were 19. So we were like, everything was amazing.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And so the, There's a bit of a drug in that where you'll go anywhere and do anything because you've never been to Australia, you've never been to Japan, you've never been to Europe, you've never been. So there you're, you're primed to go and work and take over the world. And we ran, ran through, you know, from the day we started the band at 15 to probably 31 or 32, we just ran non stop. We would come home for two months, make a record, go right back out and like. But then right around the, you know, when I had my kids, I was 29, 30, and that was the first time where I was like, whoa, I don't have. Have Nicole and the kids and stuff. That was the first time where I was like, oh, like, maybe this feels more important than that. And then, then I stopped and started kind of reflecting on, like, what are we doing? How do we work all that? But in our 20s, I think we were just so focused when 2002, when the record hit, we knew, you know, we could feel it. But if you asked me to recall some memories, I don't think I could.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Where was your mental health in that, that era?

[Joel Madden]

It was not good.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Not good. Just literally. Did you ever deal with addiction issues or alcoholism or any of that? Because I feel like I've never seen any of that in the headlines.

[Joel Madden]

I never had an addiction thing. I had a, a very complicated kind of, like, strange relationship with alcohol because it was. And, and drugs because it was so it had destroyed my family and the extended family, and, And I'd seen so much bad.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Joel Madden]

That I. I never did drugs, so I never had. I never, like. I never did cocaine. I never did any drugs because they terrified me. Because I've seen so many people in my life growing up that had in some way, shape or form ruined their life from cocaine, heroin, obviously, late in the 90s, like, OxyContin started in the 2000s, all that stuff. I stayed away from it because it was like, I saw it firsthand, and it always was, like, so familiar and so bad.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Joel Madden]

I was lucky in that way.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Because some people go one way and some people go the other.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

They've been exposed to as much as you have.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. So alcohol was something that I probably abused in some ways without knowing it, because I think I was medicating, like, some deep PTSD trauma, depression, that kind of stuff. So I found that out later because when I started working on myself, any want or need, or. Because I never went out, like, oh, I'm gonna drink. But then I'd find myself in some moments, like, like, like, how did I get here? How did I get blacked out?

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I feel like that happened in the 2000s a lot.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. So. But there was a lot of pain that was mass. And. And you didn't know how to unpack it.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yes, absolutely.

[Joel Madden]

And then my 30s, I, I, I did that work, and. And now I could say, like, I don't drink it. I don't not drink, but I don't drink.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

So it's not that I keep myself from drinking. I just don't have a. I think I'm just, like, in my body.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

So I don't like feeling out of my body.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I don't like it either. Now that I'm sober, I can't. I can't do it.

[Joel Madden]

And I think part of why we drink and use drugs is to get out of our body because we, you know, so I think there's a big thing with that. I think if it's painful to be in yourself, you want to be out of yourself. And so I think, let's say in my adult life, that's not something I relate to.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

But in my 20s, I think I always had, like, a, A, A conflicted relationship with alcohol because of my dad. So, yeah, I was always something I was never really comfortable with but found sometimes, of course, I.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Do you ever laugh at the fact that the song Criticizing fame is the one that gave it to you.

[Joel Madden]

No, because if you listen to the song, we are saying kind of give it to me, me.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Joel Madden]

I want it.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

You know, explicitly saying, like, let's rob them, but, but really saying, like, if it's so bad. Yeah. Right. A naive, a naive view, but it was honest.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Joel Madden]

I realize now fame isn't real. It's a, it's a byproduct of, of lots of things. You can manufacture fame, you can buy fame. You can. Fame is not something that I think is valuable, but I think it's, I think it's something you have to, it's a necessary evil.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Well, depending on what you are trying

[Joel Madden]

to do, I think it's something that you have to manage. And I think that it's, It's, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's un, it's not even like, I don't even say, unfortunately, it's something that comes with achieving things. And so you, but in the modern world, everyone's famous, so you can have, you can. So then, then you start to kind of look at like, well, what kind of fame do you want to have? Have.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Right, right. Level.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. You could be. There are Internet personalities that make fame for themselves by pissing people off.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

There's people who make fame for themselves by degrading themselves. There's. And it's all a choice. I, I, I've come to, like, a more like, surgical feeling towards it. Like, like you can choose it and you can also choose to. Avoid it sometimes.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yes.

[Joel Madden]

And so I think I always tell my kids, I'm like, if you trust me, you don't want to be known for. Don't be so in a rush to be known.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

Like, you will be happy if you're known for doing something you love.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

It's so much more sustainable and enjoyable when you're doing something you love. You can deal with the fame once it gets old. Because it gets old. And you, they always say, like, you think you want to be rich and famous, try getting rich first. Like, it's really true. Like, but fame is novel. The experience of like, oh, my God, you know who I am. That's a, that's a real. Everyone who's interested in that feeling, go for it. I'm not saying no, but like, it'll get old and then you'll be navigating it and you'll be managing it and it, and, and it turns on everyone. But it's a Double edged sword.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yes. That's so real that it turns on everyone. I'm gonna use that from now on. It does from you.

[Joel Madden]

And it is just what. It's the nature. Right. It's just the nature. So to sit here and, and feel one way or another about it is, is a, is a, it's a, is a lost cause. It's unproductive. Productive.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

But to acknowledge that it's a thing and that there are moments where it can be useful or it can, you can shine a light on something that's you, you're passionate about or you can help people. Sure.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

But these days, anyone can help. If you get a GoFundMe trending on Twitter, you can help people and you'll get a little famous. So it's kind of like this abstraction that is not to me, me. Like, it's. We have to update what we call fame.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

Because the old idea of fame is like from the 80s, like he can't go anywhere. No one can go anywhere.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

If you do some out there in the world, someone's gonna film you and you'll be famous or you'll, you'll, like, that's the world we live in. So I think we have to update how we look at fame. And is it good or bad? That's both. Both in any given day. You know. And I also think that, like, it's just an antiquated idea that like, like all of it's kind of like. But I would say this. I'll bet you any amount of money that like, if Jelly Roll wants to go out to a restaurant.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

He's got to measure the cost. So what's the cost? Well, if I'm feeling like, tired, I've been going for weeks. I, I give a lot. When people talk to me, I, I listen. And like, there's different levels of what you give. Some people don't, some people don't listen. Some people are, but it's different, you know, so it depends on how you, how you move through the world and what you want to give. And, and, and, and so you have to measure, like, what's that going to cost me if I go, if I just want to go to that restaurant? Well, I'm probably going to have to talk to every person. That's not bad, right? We say it, it sounds bad. It's not bad. It's just.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

No, I don't think it sounds.

[Joel Madden]

So I, I look at it more just like real.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Now you're dropping gems of wisdom here. And I really think that a lot of people need to hear what you have to say because it's honestly refreshing to hear, especially in a world that chases nothing but clout out. To hear your perspective on it is. I like it.

[Joel Madden]

Well, I, I feel like I just am a normal guy who found himself in a, an abnormal place and I observe everyone and I don't really have an opinion on how anyone should live other than like how they live and what, what they decide. And I just feel like it's, it's a funny place to be. Right. Like I'm surrounded by people who, who have all, all different levels of successes and I've gotten to observe a lot of stuff and, and I feel like I've learned at this age just how to be myself and I try to just be honest and say what I think and, and, and I think the world needs to define things all the time and as good or bad or this or that. And I think fame is a funny one because, like, if we recalibrated what we consider fame, everyone's famous.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, absolutely. What is it like having Lionel Richie as a father in law? Because I am a huge Lionel Richie fan.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah, I am too. Everyone's a, Everyone's a huge Lionel fan.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

How can you not be, you know

[Joel Madden]

what it, what a, what an incredible. Force of, of nature.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

Lionel is. Yeah. I mean to be his son in law is one thing because there's a real person there who's got a lot of wisdom and a lot of experience and a lot of. But he's just unique. I've never met anyone like him. And the fact that we're, we, we have a really nice relationship, so. But then he's also like this legend and he again, like another person. He's, he can't go in the world anywhere without how everyone it. You Very rarely you see those phenomenon type. Like, I feel very lucky because I get to move through the world a lot.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

Once or twice a day someone comes up to me and is like. And it's more like they relate to me from another time. So it's actually very, for me, very comfortable.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

I don't need to feel relevant to, to the modern culture. I don't need to feel relevant. I feel very like, happy. Happy to have had that experience. But now to exist in a place where I get to have like a lot of normality. You know, I can move through the world and it's, it's pretty easy. But I see Lionel and he's, he, he. Everywhere he goes, he, he's It's. Everyone loves him and. And he's that guy. He loves. He. He gives. He gives and gives and gives. So. So sometimes I feel bad for him. I think he's been doing it so long, he's. It's all he knows. And I think that he's got such a legacy and it's such an overwhelmingly. Kind of the size of it is so big that I think I. I mostly just kind of always worry about people that are living under the. The pressure of that, you know, and especially my family. You know, someone in my family. I. I would say the same thing about Cameron. I, like, see what she's. You know, she. She definitely has figured out a way to move through the world, but she can't go anywhere without everyone going, oh, my God, that's Cameron. You know, and so there's the privacy is hard, and privacy is such a wonderful thing.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, it's. It's a. It's a treasure.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. To be somewhere and not have any eyes on you and to be.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

That's why we're getting a house out here. Because in Nashville, we can'. Anywhere we move around, no problem.

[Joel Madden]

Right. It's easier for you guys to move around.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

So much easier out here.

[Joel Madden]

That's nice.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

So I couldn't even imagine how we're nowhere near Lionel's legendary status, so I couldn't imagine how that poor man has to move.

[Joel Madden]

Well, I would actually say that. I think I. I would say. I think that jelly roll is about as big as you can get right now.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Well, I'm married to the guy, so I don't think he's.

[Joel Madden]

That you've been. No, I'm just kidding.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I'm totally kidding.

[Joel Madden]

Well, but here's the thing, is I think that you've been on the whole journey.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And it kind of expands like that when you're on the whole thing. And you may not e. Sometimes. You may not be aware of how. How big it is sometimes. But. But. But I would say with. With Lionel, I see him and he handles it with. With class, and he's super graceful, and he's very generous with people. Um, but I. I think, you know, in the quiet moments when we spend time together, it's at home. So I do feel like I get to.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Is he like the dad you never had?

[Joel Madden]

You know, in some ways, it's interesting. I always felt like I couldn't have a dad, so I don't know if I let anyone be my dad. Dad. But he is the only dad I have.

[Podcast Host (Ad Read)]

Right.

[Joel Madden]

And rest in peace to my, my. My dad who we had a. We. We had a really nice relationship when he passed away. And I do feel like when he, when he died the last. It's been seven years. It'll be seven years and March. I've been closer to him than I ever was. Like, it's so, it's interesting. Like spiritually, it's actually made me. I feel like a more spiritual person. So I do feel like deeply connected to my, my dad. But Lionel is my only dad.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Earthbound dad.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. But there are other. There are a couple other men that are like father figures to me.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

That's amazing.

[Joel Madden]

And I would say I'm really lucky. I have a couple. Couple. My brother in law, his dad. There's a couple guys who I, who, who. Who I love deeply and have been incredibly supportive and I feel very, very lucky to. To have them in my life. But Lionel's. Yeah, Lionel is, is all he has been. He's been the dad. He's in a lot of ways and I think I'm lucky to have him as a dad in law. I've heard horror stories about father in laws.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And it's not been that with him. He's. From day one, he was a. He. He. He was like just wrapped me up, always supported me, always loved me. And we have a really nice relationship.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Good.

[Joel Madden]

We have a friendship.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

So let's talk about you and Benji's relationship. I, I heard you say in a, A, in an interview that he's kind of like the leader of you two.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

How do you guys establish that?

[Joel Madden]

I think it's natural.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

I think I'm more like. I'm. I'm. It's not that I'm more friendly, but I am a little bit more like searching out and he's a little bit more like building things. He likes to stay in one place and like build. Build the thing we're working on, if that makes sense. What.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

What are you guys. Similarities and what are you. What are you guys opposite in. Are you guys more alike in ways? Are you guys more opposite in ways?

[Joel Madden]

I am. I mean we're alike a lot, especially if you saw us together. We're twins. But. And I do think that we both have the same values. Like both been married a long time. Both.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

Super focused on that.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

You guys both married Virgo women too. Virgo, which as soulmate signs to Pisces.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. So it's very Virgo.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

By the way, like, Virgo wasn't a word to me until I married Nicole. Yeah. And now it's like such an important word. You know, how someone knows best, you know how you know someone's a Virgo, how they tell you every day. But so we're very similar in that way. I'd say he is more of a builder older and I'm a little bit more like a dreamer.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

And together we kind of work like we lock in.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. That's the perfect combination though to have especially as twins and that have the same passion and building this band and everything together.

[Joel Madden]

So.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, no, I admire you guys relationship as well. And I'm gonna ask you one more question. If everything disappeared tomorrow, fame, money and legacy, who would Joel Madden still be?

[Joel Madden]

Easy would have no problem.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Joel Madden]

I would just be a dad and a husband and a brother and a friend and I'd be super, I'd be fine. I, I, I have no problem. I, I could get a job tomorrow doing anything that I, literally anything I have to do to take care of my family. I'm lucky I get to do what I love, but I don't, I'm not precious about it. I think it's been incredibly, it's been an incredible blessing to do music for a living. It's easy job, it has its moments, there's silliness you gotta deal with sometimes but. And I care about the songs. I wanna, you know, artistically want to have a legacy but if, if it got thrown away, if it got taken, I don't care. I care about my kids, I, I care about my wife, I care about my friends. I care about actually just being happy. And like I could go fishing or I could have a cup of coffee or I could go, you know, move to the middle of nowhere and be happy if I have to. I'm gonna do this as long as I can. Because I believe we're supposed to work as hard as we can can with like the opportunities we have. We should try and I think we should try to do the best we can. But like if you told me I'm taking it all and you've got to go be nobody, I'd be totally fine. I'd be happy to be nobody. So whatever nobody means. I'm just saying, like I think I do value this stuff, I respect it, but I actually just care about being, you know, someone that my, my family, my friends and people that I meet every day, like real people that if we're at a restaurant or a coffee shop or wherever, I'm at respect when they meet.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yes.

[Joel Madden]

So I'm not up against some I, I don't feel like I'm up against anything. I just. I want to work the best I can. I want to do the best I can. Can, but I don't care. I really don't. I care about it in the sense of wanting to achieve. But, like, if you said it's all gone tomorrow, I'd be fine.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I think you've built quite the legacy, and I think everything's going to be just fine. And I'm so proud of your growth, and just getting to sit here and talk with you has been really amazing.

[Joel Madden]

It's. I'm such a fan of, of you guys.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Thank you.

[Joel Madden]

You guys are such a. That's why I came. Came.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Thank you.

[Joel Madden]

I just think that seeing a couple, two people building a life, building a family, building, you know, and finding themselves and working on themselves, you guys are very open about it, which I think is really good. Sets an example for people. And I think we all come from similar places and we all make mistakes. We all have, like. Or call him whatever you want. Like, it's just real. And I think that, like, it's a beautiful thing. And I'm really. I, I, I've, I've always been rooting for you guys.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Thank you.

[Joel Madden]

And I just am really proud of you guys. I think that it takes a lot of work.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. You know, if anybody knows, it's you. I mean, you guys, you've been with your wife for how long? And just the journey that you guys have had to do together, show up now. We appreciate the kind words, too. Like, we, we appreciate having people on our side. Side.

[Joel Madden]

So, yeah, I, I'm such a fan. I just, I'm, I'm always rooting for

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

you guys on your podcast.

[Joel Madden]

What's that?

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

We gotta get Jay on your podcast anytime. He does everybody else's podcast.

[Joel Madden]

So you know what it says?

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

I always bust his balls.

[Joel Madden]

It's an open door. Yeah, it's an open door. It always happens when it's meant to happen. It's an open door. I will love that. But also, like, it'll happen.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

No, he's a. Actually, it's so funny because he's so in tune with everything that I don't think he's in tune with, but he's like, who's coming on the podcast today? I was like, joel. And he's like. He's like, oh, yeah. He's like the one with artist friendly and good charlotte. He's like, guyliner. And I was like, yeah, so he loves you too.

[Joel Madden]

Yeah. We support you guys.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yay. I love that. Well, we'll get you guys together because you guys have to meet for sure.

[Joel Madden]

Well, when you guys move out here. Yeah, tell us.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Okay.

[Joel Madden]

We'll have dinner.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Awesome.

[Joel Madden]

Do a double date.

[Dumb Blonde (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, that'll be great fun. Yeah, that'll be awesome. Joel, thank you for coming on the podcast. Thanks for having me. Thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Dumb Blonde. I'll see you guys next time week. Bye.