TBT: Menendez Murders - Abuse & Atrocity

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dumb Blonde

Episode: TBT: Menendez Murders - Abuse & Atrocity
Host: Bunnie XO, Dumb Blonde Productions
Date: October 16, 2025

---

Overview

This emotionally charged episode is a part of Dumb Blonde's True Crime Month and focuses on the notorious Menendez Murders. Host Bunnie XO and co-hosts deliver a deep-dive into the 1989 killing of Jose and Kitty Menendez by their sons, Lyle and Eric. The episode aims to re-examine the case in light of extensive reported abuse and changing social perspectives on trauma, family violence, and male sexual abuse. The hosts are outspoken in their belief that the Menendez brothers did not receive a fair trial and passionately advocate for reconsidering their convictions.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Stage & True Crime Month

• The episode kicks off with excitement about “True Crime Month.” The hosts dive directly into the Menendez murders, skipping the usual preamble.
• Bunnie recalls following the trial since childhood, expressing a long-standing belief that the brothers were not given a fair chance (05:00).

2. Night of the Murders (08:00–13:00)

• On August 1989, Jose and Kitty Menendez were shot and killed with shotguns; Lyle calls 911, both brothers act hysterically.
• Despite inconsistent alibis and clues (acting, gunpowder residue), initial police investigations did not consider them prime suspects, likely due to their elite status and privilege (11:00).

"You gotta think, these detectives go into this crime scene... in Beverly Hills, the sons immediately are not suspects. One, I think, because of the dad’s stature." – Bunnie (11:27)

3. Post-Murder Behavior & Initial Public Perception (13:30–21:00)

• The brothers continued living lavishly in their parents' house, spending freely, and even considered writing a book celebrating their father.
• Lyle became dominant and public-facing, while Eric withdrew and struggled with depression.
• Evidence of trauma bonding, Stockholm syndrome, and the siblings’ contrasting coping mechanisms.

"They were still hunting for that approval even after he was gone.” – Co-host (16:41)

"Lyle was the firstborn. He was the first abused. And he was kind of like the protector." – Bunnie (17:13)

4. Unveiling the Abuse & Broken Family Dynamics (24:00–53:00)

• The hosts detail long-term, repeated physical, emotional, and severe sexual abuse by both parents.
• Medical records and family testimony supported claims: bedwetting, physical injury, trauma symptoms, and even direct accounts of sexual assault.
• Recordings and letters (found during jailhouse searches) and Eric’s eventual confession to Dr. Oziel divulged the dark secrets.
• Kitty Menendez—portrayed as complicit and abusive in her own right—facilitated or ignored Jose's actions.

Notable Testimony

• Eric confessed to being physically and sexually abused from ages 6–18.
• Lyle endured similar abuse until about 14, after which the focus shifted to Eric.
• Graphic courtroom testimony included Eric’s attempts to mask the taste of sexual abuse through food and lemon (78:41–82:04).

"Jose would take naked photos of both of them and crop their faces out… the mom’s handwriting was found on the envelope." – Bunnie (76:11)

"If you birth a child and tell it the sky is purple, they're going to believe you." – Co-host (76:00)

5. The Role of Dr. Oziel & Legal Betrayals (24:13–31:25)

• Dr. Oziel, Eric’s court-mandated psychologist, broke confidentiality, seeking blackmail leverage via recorded confessions, involving even his mistress and wife in the knowledge.
• His side-mistress, Judalon Smith, ultimately tipped police, leading to renewed investigations and the brothers' arrest.

“He looks at this as like a perfect blackmail moment. Just a disgusting human.” – Bunnie (25:24)

6. The First Trial: Sensational Media & Legal Strategy (37:45–54:07)

• Televised court proceedings, political overtones (the judge previously presided over the Rodney King case), and infamous lawyers – including the switch from Robert Shapiro to Leslie Abramson and Jill Lansing, two formidable women.
• Defense focused on self-defense due to ongoing abuse, while prosecution painted a motive of financial gain.
• Extensive family and medical testimony corroborated the brothers’ suffering.

Memorable Quotes on the Trial

“The brothers defense admitted that they did kill their parents, but argued that they acted out of self defense after years of emotional, psychological and sexual abuse by their father.” – Bunnie (39:54)

7. Media Portrayals: Ryan Murphy’s Netflix Series & Public Sympathy (31:21–35:16, 111:11)

• Discussion on Ryan Murphy’s "Monsters" series, which brought new public attention to the case but, per the hosts, failed to humanize the brothers or show their pain.
• Hosts advocate for watching original court tapes for true perspective and empathy.

“He did not capture the emotion of these boys and the pain of these boys. And that’s where he fucked up.” – Bunnie (32:56)

8. Mistrial, Second Trial & Harsh Sentencing (104:42–109:49)

• The first trial led to a deadlocked jury (misogynistic attitudes, disbelief in male sexual abuse evident).
• Second trial (1995–96) excluded major abuse testimony, resulting in two first-degree murder convictions and life sentences without parole.

“All of the men in the room rose their fucking hands. The rest were all women… absolutely not.” – Co-host (105:11)

“The judge ruled that the abuse excuse would not be allowed in this trial because the boys weren’t women. So battered women syndrome couldn’t be used as an excuse.” – Bunnie (107:40)

9. New Evidence & Hopes for Justice (109:49–114:36, 115:46–116:51)

• Recent documentaries ("Menendez + Menudo: Boys Betrayed") and new testimony (e.g., from the boy band Menudo) support the abuse claims.
• LA DA and broader society appear more sensitive to male abuse; a hearing on the Menendez petition for relief is scheduled.

"A jury today would look at this case probably very differently than a jury did 35 years ago." – LA County D.A., quoted by Bunnie (113:01)

10. Reflection on Healing and Transformation (114:43–117:51)

• Both brothers reportedly have matured into upstanding, creative men in prison.
• Co-hosts advocate for their release, emphasizing rehabilitation and the opportunity for the brothers to help others heal from trauma.

“Their life literally started the day they murdered their parents.” – Co-host (111:58)

“They are going to make a difference in this world… That’s iconic.” – Bunnie (116:49)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Systemic Failure:

• "The judicial system failed him. His family failed them. Everybody failed these boys." (77:50)

On the Abuse:

• "He cut the dog's head off and put the dog's head in a freezer and let Lyle and Eric see this dead dog's head." (74:40)

On Their Mom, Kitty:

• “She hated her sons. She has gone on record to therapists and said she feels like her sons ruined her life.” (72:20)

On the Impact of Media and Society:

• “Making fun or light of abuse is never okay. And I think these boys had the whole world laughing at them.” (33:18)

On Empathy and Advocacy:

• “Let them prove themselves that they can be upstanding citizens and that they can get out, be free men and change the world.” (116:37)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trial and Arrest: 03:52–13:11
• Post-murder Behavior: 13:25–21:09
• Family Background & Dynamics: 50:17–76:00
• Testimony: Abuse Details: 63:06–91:00
• Ryan Murphy Series Discussion: 31:21–35:16
• First Trial Details: 37:45–54:07
• Mistrial & Second Trial: 104:42–109:49
• New Evidence & Legal Developments: 109:49–114:36
• Personal Growth & Advocacy: 114:43–117:51

---

Tone & Language

The hosts are blunt, passionate, and at times irreverent, mixing dark humor with sharp criticism of systemic failures. Their tone is consistently empathetic toward victims of abuse and fiercely critical of those who minimize or ignore the trauma experienced by the Menendez brothers.

---

Final Thoughts

This episode not only re-examines a sensational crime but forcefully advocates for trauma-awareness in legal and public discourse. The hosts use both research and raw emotion, urging every listener to revisit the Menendez case with open eyes—and compassion.

---

For further viewing: The hosts highly recommend watching original court tapes and the recent "Menendez + Menudo: Boys Betrayed" documentary for a fuller understanding.

---

[End of Summary]

Transcript

[A]

When I started Dumb Blonde, I didn't have a plan, just an idea, passion and plenty of doubts. But that's part of the process and Shopify made it possible to turn that idea into real business. Whether it's merch, a brand, or even a podcast, Shopify gives you the tools to make it happen. If I can do it, so can you. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US. If bunnyxo.com feels easy to shop, that's all Shopify. I'm just here picking up the cute stuff to put on it.

[B]

What if I can't design a website?

[A]

Shopify's got you from the get go with beautiful ready to go templates to match your brand style.

[B]

What if I need a hand?

[A]

Get help with everyday tasks like enhancing product images, writing product descriptions, or generating discount codes with Shopify's AI tools created for commerce. What if people haven't heard about my brand? Shopify helps you find your customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns.

[B]

And what if I get stuck? Shopify is always around to share advice.

[A]

With their award winning 24. 7 customer support. Turn those dreams into and give them the best shot at success with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify. Com bunny go to shopify.com b u n n I e shopify.com funny people joke about OCD like it's being neat, but real OCD. It's terrifying intrusive thoughts you cannot control.

[B]

I know because I have it.

[A]

The good news is OCD is one of the most treatable mental health conditions and that's why I want to tell you about no cd.

[B]

OCD is a serious and highly misunderstood condition that causes people to get stuck.

[A]

In a cycle of stressful, unwanted thoughts and repetitive behav behaviors which can become.

[B]

Debilitating as well as exhausting.

[A]

OCD can focus on anything and often targets the things we care about the most, causing us to question core values, beliefs or feelings about our loved ones. Because OCD is so misunderstood and can look so different from person to person, it's often misdiagnosed or not recognized at all. But with the kind of right help.

[B]

From a specialized therapist who truly understands.

[A]

What you're experiencing and is trained to treat it, OCD is extremely manageable. At nocd, every therapist deeply understands ocd. NOCD is the world's leading OCD treatment provider and all of their licensed therapists go through extensive training to recognize and effectively treat ocd. NOCD therapists work with you in live face to face virtual sessions. NOCD also makes sure you're supported between sessions with powerful in app tools. If any of this sounds familiar, please don't wait. Visit nocd.com and book a free call with their team to get connected to.

[B]

Someone who can help.

[A]

That's n o c d.com Bunny XO is this thing on?

[B]

What's up, you sexy? Welcome back to another episode of the Blonde. True crime month, baby.

[C]

It's my favorite month.

[B]

I know. I love it. I would do true crime all the time. Are we. I don't know. Shall we? I love it. We said that last time, too. And then we like, did it for like two more months and then it just, we were like, okay, interviews. Today we are going to be talking.

[A]

About Lyle and Eric Menendez.

[B]

They are so just literally like the. The entire world has re. Embraced them. And it really warms my heart because I followed this trial. I was, I think, like, how old was I? Let me look. Yeah, I was about. So it was 89. I was nine when this trial was going on. So I followed it. So I, I remember how the world made it look back then. And then as I got older, I still kind of like kept in tune, tuned with it because I've always been like a true crime junkie and I learned more and more and more and I've always, always, always thought those boys did not get a fair shot. So in lieu of the new Ryan Murphy, you know, is that a documentary.

[C]

Or a document series?

[B]

Right. I feel like it's a TV show, though, because it's based on true events, but it's also very Hollywood.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Which we'll get into. Yeah, which we'll talk all about that, too, and what our opinions about it are. But for those of you that live under a fucking rock, we are going to cover this entire case from fucking pillar to post, and hopefully we can, you know, share our opinions and how we feel about the situation with y'. All.

[C]

They're all speculations.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Everything's alleged and we'll go from there. How does that sound? So what we're gonna do is we're gonna start from when the murders happened. But as we talk about the murders and the court case and stuff like that, everything will be revealed about their childhood and, and, you know, just, it'll all make sense. So I know at first we're. Normally we start from the beginning and then let it build up, but now we're, we're just gonna Literally dive straight into the night that the murders happened, everything that happened after that, and then by the time Lyle and Eric get on sand to testify, all of the stuff about their child coming in hot.

[C]

Like this one.

[B]

Yeah, we're coming in hot. We've got notes. When I tell.

[C]

Look.

[B]

Show when I tell you. Look at this. Open them. Open them when I tell you. These are the Lyle and Eric Menendez notes we studied.

[C]

This is crazy, you guys. Like, I'm telling you, we went deep.

[B]

Yeah, we really. Just. Because I wanted to know everything, you know? Like, I feel like the Carly, Greg. There wasn't a lot to know, you know, so it was like there was.

[C]

That story's still unfolding, literally. I mean, for it to have just happened. So this happened so long ago that we've had, you know, over a decade.

[B]

Multiple decades, and I would just like to put it out there. Lyle and Eric Menendez, when you guys do get freed, because I believe you will, I would love to have you guys on the podcast. Don't come for me, Internet, because I want people who have murdered people on the podcast, though. And by the way, we will be talking about Wade Wilson next week, and we have Diane Ruiz's boys coming on the podcast. JD delay is gonna be with me. It's gonna be a deep dive, and a lot of shocking bombshells will be dropped. Yes, there will be, because I have been saving everything for the documentary that we were working on, and I called the documentary off just because we'll get into that whenever we talk about it. But, yeah, I'm ready to go in about that, and I'm ready to speak my mind.

[C]

Oh, we are parked in downtown Chicago. I can hear the cars going by outside. So if you guys hear background noise honking, because everyone in Chicago likes to honk.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

The best food out here, though.

[C]

Like, good.

[B]

Can somebody tell me why Chicago has the best freaking food so good? No, it's. It's insanity. But, yeah, I'm hoping that you guys are loving the true. The tour, but the True Crime Tour bus. Yeah, True Crime Tour Bus Edition is what we're doing over here. So. But we just, you know, we wanted to stick with tradition, and we wanted to make sure that you guys, you know, had some stuff to listen to during the month of October. All right, so we are gonna kick this off. Lyle and Eric Menendez on the night of the murders that happened. So that is August of 1989. Jose Menendez, an executive at RCA Records, and his wife, Kitty Menendez, are shot and killed by Shotgun blasts in their Beverly hills mansion. At 11:47pm Lyle the son calls 911 and said someone killed my parents.

[C]

Distraughtly calls.

[B]

Distraughtly calls yes. Like is like. I mean just playing it up. Like boy, they said it even said both boys were hysterical. Almost overreacting.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So you know, as you guys know, Lyle and Eric killed them. But you know they lived this life of like just lavishness. They lived in a mansion in Beverly Hills. I think their zip code was even 920 know.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like that's so just like it's like.

[C]

The most like prestigious Hollywood, Louisiana type neighborhood you could possibly imagine. Quiet mansions. It's insane.

[B]

Jose was an. Jose was a record exec for RCA and like I think like was like I don't quote me on this. He was either owner or heavily, heavily involved with Hertz rental cars. So like the dude they, they had.

[C]

Money, you know, they were more than enough money.

[B]

They were doing great. Eric has said in interview that you know, if the police would have pressed them, he would have folded because they had zero alibi and they also had gunpowder residue all over their hands.

[C]

Yeah, they're very sloppy.

[B]

Yeah, very sloppy like these boys when, when as things start to unfold you're going to understand why they did this. Like I said, you must live under a rock if you don't know the story. But stay with us if you don't know the story. So I mean like they literally didn't even think about it. You can tell it was almost a crime of passion because they didn't think everything out. They just literally went downstairs and blew their parents heads off.

[C]

Yeah. You know they didn't put together a plan. They didn't like rehearse this. They didn't go over anything. It just, it happened. They panicked.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Shortly after and that's when the so called alibis or like the cleanups or whatever they attempted, those came into play in passion like you said.

[B]

Yeah. I don't think they tried to clean.

[C]

Up anything like the, any gun shells and stuff. Remember they walked in and grabbed all the gunshots.

[B]

Yeah. Oh that's right. Because he says right here, he says had they had searched their car. There were gun shells inside the vehicle and his vehicle was inside the search area. So yes, you were right.

[C]

Crazy.

[B]

You caught that. That's.

[C]

I was paying attention. Like this is, this is definitely.

[B]

I'm like overloaded like with research on this.

[C]

It's like I find it crazy that this kind of falls back into last week's episode of like they're Smart kids. Yeah, but they're not street smart kids. Right?

[B]

I mean they're, they grew up in freaking Beverly Hills.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like they know how to do drive bys or anything. So Eric also went on to tell the detectives because like, you know, they were never pinpointed as suspects. Like, which is crazy to me because you gotta think, these detectives go into this crime scene, both parents heads are blown off with shotgun shells. In Beverly Hills, the sons immediately are not suspects. One, I think, because of the dad's stature.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I truly believe that that's why they didn't treat them bad, because they were just, oh, they wouldn't, they could never do this, you know. But secondly, they didn't even test the boy's hands for, for gunpowder residue. Had they had done that, you know, they would have been like, something's not ending.

[C]

So when the cops show up, the first thing that Lyle is like pressing is like, I think the mom did this. You know, that was their alibi.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

You know what I mean? So like he immediately was just like, nope, it wasn't us. You know, and so I, I believe like you said, the dad's role in the community and his, his ability to have like this perfect Persona, a powerful man. Yeah. They were like, oh no, the kids could never.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, the boys did get brought in for questioning, but I mean, that's just like par for the course if you're at any murder or you walk in on any crime scene. So he said that if the detectives have been paying attention, when the detectives and him were talking, he said that he discovered his parents and that he saw smoke.

[C]

The smoke.

[B]

Yeah, the room was filled with smoke. So how weren't they arrested was surprising to him is exactly what he said. And he said because. Because seeing smoke would mean he would have had to have been there around the time of the crime.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So, you know, there was just so many clues, so many things that so.

[C]

Obvious pointed at the boys.

[B]

But I think that the people in the community and the, and the police just didn't want to believe it.

[C]

No, not at all. I don't think anyone thought of them. And like it truly was this. When they do get caught and we'll get to that, it's like they could have gotten away with this.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yes, they could have gotten away with this.

[B]

They would have gotten away with it first.

[C]

You know what I mean? But I do agree. The, the slip ups, it all points to me that this was passion. Oh, this is a passion kill for sure.

[B]

People thought it was strange that the boys were still living in the same house that their parents were murdered in. So even after they blew their par. Heads off, the boys continued to thrive and live in the same house. And you know, that's when people started kind of being like, this is a little weird.

[C]

Yeah. I wonder if anyone suspected it prior to them getting caught. I wonder how many people were like, maybe the boys actually did do this and no one was willing to speak up because of their stature.

[B]

Yeah, well, I feel like especially back in the day, like in the 80s and 90s, people minded their business.

[C]

This. I mean, that's true. No one's posting it on Tik Tok.

[B]

Literally nobody's trying to expose anybody in the 80s and 90s, dude. And like now how it is now would be like, I think he did it. They'd do a.

[C]

They'd have a podcast about it.

[B]

They'd have a podcast about it like it would. Everybody's exposing. Everybody back then didn't say a word.

[C]

No, they kept to themselves. They would talk about it like during coffee or like over a cigar or some. But like in the streets. Yeah.

[B]

Like, you know, gossip.

[C]

That's what I'm wondering. Like, I wonder how many times they sat down and were like, I bet you those boys did it. Hands down.

[B]

For sure. I'm sure there was a couple people who thought that too. But because of, you know, again, who Jose was, a lot of people just didn't want to, you know, they didn't want to think.

[C]

Yeah. Badly of him also because like he put out this Persona that in this community and his work and everything that he was like the perfect family man.

[B]

So Lyle has been quoted as saying, I didn't have good coping mechanisms as a child. I was comfortable with keeping secrets. So I mean that right there for him. And this is before he even said anything about, you know, the abuse or anything like that. For him to say that he was comfortable keeping secrets, that's crazy.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

If you, you know, some crazy shit's going on in that family that you can kill your parents and just act like nothing happened.

[C]

Exactly. And like I. I do feel like the over dramatized phone calls and like the acting that when the police were there goes to show how good of a liar he can be.

[B]

Yeah. They said that lyle also did 90 of the talking after the parents deaths because, you know, Lyle is the older brother. So he kind of like. They said that he began having business meetings with people to try to carry out what they thought their father would want them to do. It's like. It's crazy when you think about it, because these boys were like. It's almost like they were living. I don't know, it's almost like a fantasy role play of like, maybe they genuinely were so up from what happened in their house that they. Well, what I've noticed in all the research, too, is these boys still had, like, this one weird, tremendous respect for their father. Which isn't that like munch housing syndrome kind of.

[C]

It's a. I would assume it's like. Oh, no.

[B]

Stockholm syndrome.

[C]

Stockholm. I was like, more Stockholm syndrome.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, sorry. Not Munchausen. Stockholm syndrome. Because, like, they still wanted to carry out, like, their. His father's plans. At the funeral. They talked about what a great man their father was. And like, it's like they were still.

[C]

Hunting for that approval even after he was gone.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

That's truly what it was. It's like, what would my dad think right now? Yeah.

[B]

Would he be happy with it?

[C]

Yes. Would he be happy with what I'm doing? Would he be happy with that? And to give you guys perspective on Lyle and Eric, Lyle was the older one and he was a very dominant out of the two. Eric, I feel like, was just stuck in this, like, little boy. Little boy. Innocent.

[B]

So sweet.

[C]

While Lyle was very push forward, very aggressive. He's the aggressor of the two.

[B]

He's the firstborn. He was the firstborn. He was the first abused. And he was kind of like the protector.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

And poor Eric, you know, just was this little. Just this little nugget.

[C]

I see Lyle being the one after the deaths to pursue these businesses, and he's. He's carrying on life like his parents never died.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like they're on vacation or something.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Like Weekend at Bernie's.

[C]

And.

[B]

Yeah. They also enlisted a meeting with a writer to do a book on their father about what a great man he was, as well as we're talking about going into politics, because that's what they had said their father was planning on doing.

[C]

It's like he's becoming his father.

[B]

That's exactly what they said. They said that he. That Lyle literally stepped into the shoes of his father and like, took his father's place.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. Lia also was the one who spent a lot of time at his parents grave sites. And that, to me, kind of shows maybe remorse, empathy.

[C]

Yeah. Like, he does feel bad in a sense, but we'll get to that.

[B]

Says Lyle read a letter at the funeral from his father and was said to start becoming and acting like his father.

[C]

Father.

[B]

He became extremely calm and cool. They both handled the deaths of their parents differently. Eric becoming withdrawn and quiet. So Eric, you know, has. Eric is more of a sensitive soul.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And he internalizes everything. He also suffers with severe depression. He also has a lot of mental, you know, health issues. Mental health issues. And, you know, whereas Lyle probably was just in survival mode all the time.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It was just. I feel like Eric was more in that fawn mode and Lyle was in.

[C]

Fight or flight all the time. His cortisol levels must be insane. Literally.

[B]

Well, now I'm sure. I hope and pray that they're better, but. Yeah, yeah. For what those boys had to go through. Absolutely. And they just both took on the pain way differently.

[C]

Exactly. And that just goes to show you can go through. Both can go through something similar within a house, and you as a person is going to deal with that trauma in such different ways.

[B]

Yes. So, you know, Lyle becoming this strange interpretation of his business. Like father. He even hired bodyguards saying he feared for his life from the mob.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because he was, like, really playing into his alibi, quote, unquote, that he had. And, you know, whatever. I mean, they had the money, so he probably was just squandering it. Said they went shopping and started buying each other lavish gifts. Eric, who was a, like, a really good tennis player, hired a tennis coach for like, 50, 000 a year, which back in 89. $50,000. It's crazy. You could buy a house for like, 50,000 to 100,000. Back then, Eric said it was all to cover up not wanting to be alive. He said that the only reason he didn't kill himself was because he didn't want to be a disappointment to his father.

[C]

Oh. Again, just trying to, like, live out this, like, childhood something. I don't even know how to put that into words. But more like they truly believed that their father wanted these things from them.

[B]

It also goes to show that when you are abused by somebody, you still love them and you still want that attention, that affection, and that acknowledgment from them.

[C]

Yeah. That's often like, you know, people, why did you stay with your abuser? Like, why are you still in a relationship with him? This goes to show that trauma bonds. Trauma bonds. It can happen with siblings, it can happen with relatives, it can happen with significant others, it can happen with parents. And this is one of those situations.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Lyle has gone on the record to even say that he didn't enjoy being considered a playboy and that it was just all a facade to, you know, cover up what they had done. So during all of this, Eric had ended up getting in trouble for burglary while his parents were alive and the court ordered him to go to a therapist. Enter Dr. Ozil. And that's who Eric started going to. You guys know me.

[A]

I'm all about saving money where I can, especially on boring stuff like phone bills. I got tired of those jaw dropping wireless bills every month. Hidden fees, overages, contracts. No thank you. That's when I made the switch to Mint Mobile. And let me tell you, it has been a game changer with Mint Mobile. I'm paying just $15 a month for premium wireless. Yep, you heard that right. $15 and I still get high speed data, unlimited talk and text, all on the nation's largest 5G network. The best part? I didn't have to buy a new.

[B]

Phone or change my number.

[A]

I just popped in the Mint SIM and kept all my contacts easy. Honestly, compared to my old provider, I'm saving so much it feels like I've been getting scammed all these years. If you're still overpaying for wireless, just stop. Mint makes it simple. And once you switch, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner. Ready to say yes to saying no? Make the [e-mail] bunny that's mintmobile.com bunny b u n n I e upfront payment of $45 required equivalent to $15 a month limited time new customers offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan taxes and fees. Extra cement Mobile for details Chime understands that every dollar counts. That's why when you set up direct deposit through Chime, you get access to fee free features like free free overdraft coverage, getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit and more. Learn [e-mail] Bunny open a checking account with no monthly fees and no maintenance fees.

[B]

Get paid up to two days early.

[A]

When you set up direct deposit with qualifying direct deposits, you're eligible for free.

[B]

Overdraft up to $200 on debit card purchases and cash withdrawals.

[A]

To date, Chime has spotted members over 30 billion. Open a checking account with no monthly fees and no maintenance fees. Not to mention access to over 47,000 fee free ATMs, more than the top three national banks combined.

[B]

What I love about Chime Real time.

[A]

Alerts every time I swipe. Perfect for my late night Amazon habits. Their 247 support has saved me while traveling and the daily balance Updates Feel.

[B]

Like a money coach in my pocket.

[A]

Work on your financial goals through Chime today. Open an account in 2 [e-mail] bunny that's chime.com b u n n I e chime.

[B]

It feels like progress.

[A]

Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members. Fdic Spot me. Eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file fees. Apply it out of network ATMs. Bank ranking and number of ATMs. According to US News and World Report, 2023 time checking account required.

[B]

That doctor never made Eric feel safe because Jose told Dr. Ozil. Everything that my son tells you, you need to tell me, and you need to sign this affidavit saying that you will. So Eric knew that he couldn't confide in this doctor.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And never once confided in this doctor about the abuse. Never said anything about wild.

[C]

He has to go to them for robbery. But, yeah, let's forget about all the abuse.

[B]

Yeah, let's. Let's forget about all the. Let's forget why I robbed people.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So after the deaths, the deaths were. Were just too heavy on Eric, and he was just like, I've got to get this out of me. So he goes and he sees none other than Dr. Ozil. And when he sits down with Dr. Ozil, he's, you know, really nervous, really agitated because he's pretty much suicidal at this point. And he goes and tells Dr. Ozell, hey, let's take a walk, because he was afraid that the session was being recorded.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

And in that walk, he confides to the doctor that he killed. That him and Lyle committed the murders of his family.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So Dr. Ozil does not take this upon himself to go to the police and tell the police. He looks at this as like a perfect blackmail moment. Just a disgusting human.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I mean, would you expect any less from somebody who was in business with the dad, you know? So instead he has a side bitch named Judalon Smith who he decides to confide in and tell, like, hey, Eric and Lyle Menendez just confessed their murders to me. I need you to come sit in, in one of the sessions and kind of eavesdrop in the waiting room. So he had Judah Line come in. So sit in one of the sessions outside and, like, with her ear up against the door or whatever, or sitting in the waiting room. And he immediately gets on tape these confessions because he wants to have something to hold over the boys heads for obviously for monetary reasons. And by the way, Dr. Ozell's license during this time was already suspended. I don't think anybody knew that. But he just wasn't a great character, he wasn't a great human. Literally took advantage of these people boys.

[C]

Because in their most vulnerable moments.

[B]

Yeah, like in their not multiple vulnerable moments. You know, Eric has said that he admitted these deaths to Dr. Ozil because he was really wanting to kill himself and depressed he didn't know where else to turn.

[C]

Eric had like you had already said, Eric internalizes everything while Lyle like projects it all in like with money or with like attention. And Eric is just so soft spoken. He's got, he's really got that Michael Jackson where it's like he's stuck in that age where that abuse started and he didn't know how to do this. And I, I hate that the person that he felt most comfortable to turn to and I know he thought the only reason he could turn to him is because like legally he couldn't go tell anyone. So like I get that. But like how sad is that you had no one in your life you could confide to and then you end up having to go to the worst person ever.

[B]

I feel like his family would have had his back more than the doctor.

[C]

I feel like they would have too.

[B]

Because they seen it, they've been writing. So. Yeah, and we'll get into that too. During all of this, Dr. Ozel also confided in his wife too. Not only did he confide in a side, he confided in his wife. So there's two now. Now we've got three people who know about what's on going going on.

[C]

He said he was confiding in them because he feared his life.

[B]

Right. I was just getting into that. He said he also told his both his wife and his mistress that Lyle had threatened his life but still never went to police.

[C]

Get out of here.

[B]

Lyle has even gone on record to say like that's absolutely false. I never threatened his life. You know, and if I did threaten his life, why didn't he just go to the police? He never went to the police. He literally was just like out for himself.

[C]

Himself.

[B]

Yeah. Concocting this story just to try to definitely probably blackmail. Well, lo and behold, good old side Judalon decides to get mad at Dr. Ozil. Probably because he wouldn't leave his wife. But she said that he had kidnapped her and held her against his wheel will and raped her. Which we're not here to Discuss any.

[C]

Abuse that it could have happened.

[B]

Could have possibly happened. Yeah. We're not here to speculate on what happened to Judalon, but this was her reasoning for going to the police. And when she goes to the police, she's hysterical. She's like, oh, my God, he raped me. He did this, he did that. Oh, by the way, he also has the Menendez brothers on record saying that they killed their parents. So this wasn't the first thing that she told the police. It was more about, like, what's going on with her and, like, how he did her wrong. And, you know, even the police back then didn't believe her, like, what was going on. But when she said that he had these tapes of the boys, that's when the police's ears perked up.

[C]

And, you know, the police, I feel, at that point are like. And they kind of discussed this in that docu series on Netflix about how they feel like they're internalizing the fact they're not doing a very good job. And that could be. We don't. Like, that's not actual proof.

[B]

Right.

[C]

More of, like, Hollywood type stuff. But this could be actually happening. These dudes could literally just be in such a rut that it's like they were willing to grasp onto any information that was coming out because, of course, they didn't test the son's hands.

[B]

Right.

[C]

You know, so they have nothing. And they probably didn't do a very good scene. Very good job at the crime scene.

[B]

Yeah. And by the way, his side used to be one of his clients, which right there tells you another character defect of Dr. Ozil.

[C]

You're not supposed to be.

[B]

Is that like a HIPAA violation?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You're not, like, supposed to date your clients, but whatever. So the police watching this from the sidelines was when it started to make the police kind of think, like, something is not right. This is a motive here. So they start investigating, and they discover where the boys had bought the guns in San Diego. So before the boys did the murders, and we're going to get into all of this, because none of this comes out until they get on the stand, is that Lyle and Eric said that they feared for their lives because of their parents. You know, there was a situation that happened, which we'll get into in a little bit, and Lyle and Eric felt like they needed to protect themselves. So they went down to San Diego, and I think they used, like, a cousin's ID or something, and they bought two shotguns from a gun shop. So the police found out about that and that right there shows the murder weapons. March of 1990. Lyle is, this is almost a year later. Lyle is arrested by police and Eric turns himself in. Days later, after returning from Israel, they are accused of first degree murder. So this is where it starts getting fucking hairy, dude. Oh, like it starts getting fucking crazy. Like, I, I, you can't make this up. Like, this is a, this is literally a Hollywood movie.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Ryan Murphy knew what he was doing when he made that document.

[C]

Absolutely. And we talk about the fact that like, he portrayed them and like the, the way that he put this together, I mean, it was a spectacular. Monsters is something like everyone should watch.

[B]

Yeah. So let's, well, let's talk about it really quick before we get into, into all the details and stuff like that. So I don't know if you guys have seen all the hoopla online about Ryan Murphy's documentary about Lyle and Eric Menendez. I watched the documentary myself or the docu series myself. And I have to say this is only my opinion. Everybody else is entitled to their opinions, but this is how I took the Ryan Murphy thing. First of all, Ryan Murphy is notorious for American Horror Story. It's what he does. He does horror very well. And when I watch the docu series, it kept me glued to the screen.

[C]

You couldn't look away.

[B]

Could not look away. Could not look away. And I didn't realize how bad the abuse was until I watched that Ryan Murphy document documentary. I think he captured the abuse that the boys went through. Absolutely amazing. What he did wrong was, and this is how, just my opinion, what he did wrong was he did not capture the emotion of these boys and the pain of these boys. And that's where he up.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Had he have incorporated that in that docu series, it would have been received a way different way.

[C]

Whole different way. You and I discussed this. I truly feel like he dehumanized them. And until you actually watch them as humans on tape, you have no idea the emotions and the pain that these.

[B]

Boys felt, what those boys went through. Dude, like, I don't think ever making fun or light of abuse is ever okay. And I think that, you know, these boys had the whole world laughing at them.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

They were portrayed as these snotty little bratty, pompous, you know, boys. And that's how the media covered them in the 90s. That's exactly how people were making fun.

[C]

Of them on, like, news channels and like SNL and like, things like that. Could you imagine.

[B]

No. Could you imagine, you know, literally killing your parents and Then the entire world just coming at you, not knowing all the facts and making fun of you and, you know, like, she said skits on SNL being made and stuff like that. So do I think Ryan Murphy did a great job? Absolutely. But I also think that he slipped up in that one area of just not showing any empathy and capturing the boy's emotions and pain, which kind of is par for the course for Ryan Murphy. He's kind of like the Tim Burton of.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

You know, like horror.

[C]

And I don't think you can incorporate heartfelt moments so much into horror. So I get that. Like, I get you. You did the best in your specialty. And I by no means feel like it was a bad. It was literally. I'm obsessed with it. I could watch it again.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But if you want to dissect it. Yes. If you want to dissect and know more, please, please go watch the actual tapes.

[B]

Well, go watch the actual tapes, but also watch the new documentary that just dropped with the boys in their own words.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And I can understand why Eric and Lyle are upset because they've worked this hard to, like, get their reappealed and, like, you know, hopefully try to get free. And then here comes Ryan Murphy making them look like they did in the 90s, and that's got to be her hurtful.

[C]

So it is. I get that.

[B]

I understand that. All right, so let's. We got off track, but let's deep dive into what happens next after the boys are arrested. You want to go ahead?

[E]

Memes.

[C]

Yeah. March 1990. Lyle is arrested by police, and Eric turns himself in days later after returning from Israel. So they're just living their normal lives, having no idea this mistress is out there snitching.

[B]

Yeah. On them and not really snitching on them. She was trying to snitch on Dr. Ozil and then was like, oh, yeah, by the way. Like, they didn't even care. It was so passe.

[C]

Oh, it was awful. So.

[B]

And by the way, Eric was in Israel for a tennis competition.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

He could have just stayed gone.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, you didn't have to come back.

[B]

Yeah. Like, you could. Boy, you had a running start.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

He only came back for his brother, truly.

[C]

Yeah. And it's a trauma bond, too, between those two lyrics has said that it was a staged arrest for the media circus. They, you know, had called the media to be ready to watch for the SWAT teams. That right there shows me. And I had mentioned this earlier in this podcast about the police department. They really were trying to Save their asses in this.

[B]

Oh, absolutely.

[C]

And the fact that you call media out to witness this, you could have easily, probably knocked on the door and just been like, yo, bro, when you.

[B]

Find out later on who the judge was, you'll understand why they made this immediate.

[C]

Exactly. So it just. To me, the whole thing just screams red flags. But then, you know, Lyle also has come out to say that he was relieved to be arrested and that it's like you said, the cortisol levels in this circus, that he's just portraying this person. It was probably like, whoa, I kind of take off my mask right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I don't have to pretend to be this person and everyone he surrounded himself in, his friends, everything like that. He had to be someone.

[B]

Well, and holding in a lie like that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then can you imagine seeing your parents in that state over and over and over again and nightmares? Like, I. I just think that that would be super heavy and just, you know, I couldn't imagine the relief of just being like, okay, let's go.

[C]

And that's what Eric had. That's what turned Eric to going and confessing to his therapist was the. A lot of the dreams, you know, he was daydreaming, he was having dreams at nightmares at night. Like, it consumed his entire life, which I'm sure, in a way, it also did to Lyall, but Lyall didn't portray that. Right.

[B]

So we're going to Fast forward to three years later. July of 19, 1993 is when they go on their first trial.

[C]

So the Mendez brothers go on trial in LA courtroom, each a separate jury in a trial that was televised on Court tv. Yeah, so.

[B]

So, I mean, that's already a media circus. You know, these boys have been sitting in jail for three years. They reappear. And I mean, you see the iconic when they walk in the courtroom like that is iconic because these boys were attractive boys.

[C]

That was it. They were really like the. They were typical.

[B]

And I'm gonna say, yeah, they were the hot 90s guys. And, you know, people wanted to hate them, but then there was women who loved them. You know, as we're seeing with what's happening with certain serial killers now or, you know, killers now.

[C]

Same thing happened with Dahmer. Yeah, he was hot. You know, and again, that. That resurfaced here when they brought out his, you little docu series thing. It was like it resurfaced of this, like, craze women had towards, like, how hot he was. Yep.

[B]

So prosecutors, whenever they opened up the Arguments in the trial was that they killed their parents for financial gain. They were looking for a motive. And I'm sorry, this prosecutor was a. I can't stand her.

[C]

I did my. Not like her.

[B]

Bro. If you watch the documentary, the new one that just dropped. Don't. Not the Ryan Murphy one, but the. The real prosecutor is in this one and she is a turd.

[C]

I don't like her.

[B]

I just talked about this terrible human man.

[C]

Like, like the ending of that. When she was talking, I was like.

[B]

It'S viral on Tik Tok.

[C]

Is it?

[B]

It's viral.

[C]

Thank God. Cancel her, please. If there's anyone to cancel, it's her.

[B]

Yeah, I think she's retired now, but I mean like she's is crazy. She even went on to say on this documentary like, oh yeah, so we're just gonna let them out of prison because Tick Tock. And by the way, Tick Tock, I'm armed and it's just like I got.

[C]

Guns all over this place.

[B]

These people on Tick Tock work, they will have your Social Security number on the Dark web tonight.

[C]

They will be tracking your every move on Twitter.

[B]

Yeah, like she needs. Like I don't piss off the crazies on Tick Tock.

[C]

No.

[B]

The brothers defense admitted that they did kill their parents, but argued that they acted out of sight self defense after years of emotional, psychological and sexual abuse by their father. So this brings me to a point right here. When they first got arrested, they sat in jail for three years and they stood by the fact that yes, we killed our parents and we're just going to take our lumps and go away. Nobody was going to talk about the sexual abuse. They were forced to talk about. About the sexual abuse. Yes.

[C]

What is that?

[B]

Yep. They were forced to talk about the sexual abuse because Eric and Lyle had been put in a. The. The same housing unit. And Lyle used to write letters to Eric and they had said, and we'll talk about this in a little bit, that the boys tried to have tried to escape from jail. And so they had to all of a sudden search their jail cells.

[C]

Right? Lies.

[B]

Yeah, it was lies. But they searched Eric's cell and when they searched Eric cell, they found a letter from Lyle stating like, hey, I love you. I'm sorry for everything we've been through. You know, but listen, we're not going to talk about what really happened. We're not going to talk about what they did to us. We're not. You know, like this was a heartfelt letter where he went in and was Just telling Eric how much he loved him and, like, hey, we're just gonna go down in flames and just take our. You know, we're going. We're gonna do it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Which to me, that's balls, dude.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's straight up gangster.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

Like, how are you not gonna talk about what really happened in your household? And once you guys find out what really, really happened in their household, if you don't know already, it's mind blowing that they were willing to go down with these secrets.

[C]

I. I cannot imagine. I have full body chills right now thinking back on this, because I just could not imagine having so much trauma that you don't even want to talk about the trauma.

[B]

Well, you don't want to talk about it. And also, it's almost like you're still protecting your family.

[C]

Exactly. It's like, dad would be disappointed if we talked about that. That's how I, like, see it. And I'm like, bro, what did he do to you?

[B]

And you know why Eric? I think I wrote it down later in the notes. But Eric said later on that he had kept the letter because it was the first time Lyle had ever opened up to him about it, and it was special to him. And that just goes to show how sweet Eric is. Like, oh, they're babies. Like, they're okay. Anyways, we'll probably get in trouble for saying romanticizing murderers, but I just. I don't know. How can you not want to cradle these boys after you hear this story?

[C]

It's crazy.

[B]

So, of course, you know, with the boys looks, with their attitudes, all that.

[C]

Stuff where their parents. Who their parents.

[B]

Who their parents were, they become an over. The case becomes an overnight sensation. They are like global, global worldwide coverage.

[C]

This was like our modern day, like, Johnny Depp trial that everyone was talking about. And everyone was watching.

[B]

Yeah. No, it was crazy.

[C]

So.

[B]

So the jurors were selected. The jurors that were selected had read and followed the case through TV and newspapers. So they had already preconceived opinions about the boys. How is that even fair? Like, you have have such a freaking major case that people have been already following for 3, 3, 4 years at.

[C]

This point, have decided their decisions for sure.

[B]

Well, that. And also, it's like, that's not fair because you need people who really don't know what's going on to look at it from a fresh, you know, set of eyes. So Robert Shapiro was originally the boys's attorneys, which Eric and Lyle have gone on record to see, say that they feel Like Robert Shapiro them over.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Robert Shapiro is actually the one that talked Eric into coming back from Israel and when Eric could have just stayed in Israel.

[C]

So. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So I didn't.

[C]

I didn't know that. I had no idea. He's the one that convinced him to come back. I thought his brother convinced him. That's wild.

[B]

No, Robert. Well, I'm sure I was a mixture of both. I'm sure. But, you know, his brother. Brother was arrested. He's not being able to talk to his brother. And then Robert Shapiro probably, you know, levied that to get him back, but they definitely feel like Robert Shapiro them over. So after they fired Robert Shapiro, they hired boss ass B. Leslie Abra Abramson.

[C]

That's my girl.

[B]

I love her.

[C]

That's my girl.

[B]

No, I love her. And she, you can tell, man, that woman went hard for these boys. Like, she was the mom they always needed. Like, she fucking protected these boys tooth and nail. And she's the one who talked the boys into talking about their sexual abuse because Lyle was not having it. I think Eric was more like, okay, yeah, I'll do it, but as long as Lyle's okay with it. And then Lyle also. So Leslie was Eric's attorney. And then Lyle had another attorney who I believe was. I think her name is Jill.

[C]

If you guys have not seen Leslie, go look at a picture of her. She's got this, like, permed blonde hair. Big, big hair. I'm just gonna paint a picture for you. She's skinny. She is chain smoking cigarettes outside the courtroom.

[B]

It's just, she's from New York. Like, she doesn't take any shit.

[C]

She is such a bad bitch. Yeah, I adore her.

[B]

So Lyle's attorney was Jill Lansing. And then Eric's attorney was Leslie Abram. Abra Abramson. I don't know. I have the hardest time with that. But isn't it crazy how the boys hired both women? Yeah, like, that just shows, like, I mean, they just want that motherly.

[C]

Yes. They were over by the dude already. And it goes to prove to them, like, you know, no, we're gonna get women.

[B]

Yeah, Their mom was a piece of shit, too. Yeah, we're gonna get.

[C]

Both of the parents failed them.

[B]

Yeah, definitely. So in the case of Lyle and Eric Menendez, who murdered their parents in 1989, Shapiro arranged the surrender of Eric in 1990, who at the time of Lyle's arrest, was in Israel for a tennis tournament. He later represented Eric during their first arraignment until the defense handed it over to Leslie Abram Abramson, who represents Eric until the brother's conviction. So moving on from there, you know, you've got this huge global case. You've got these two badass women that are representing the boys. You've got handsome boys, handsome rich boys that are just driving the world crazy. And then you have jurors who know what the fuck is going on.

[C]

Yeah. This whole case is a mess.

[B]

This whole case is a. Is a mess. Because the next part. And I'm gonna let you know why the next part is so pertinent. The judge was the same judge. The judge that the boys got was the same judge that had ruled on the Rodney King case. So because of what happened with the Rodney King verdict, that judge already felt pressured to prove that the judicial system was upstanding. And just. So these boys are literally walking in to just a lion's den.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

You know, and for everybody who's familiar with the Rodney King situation, when that judge ruled not guilty, LA was on fire, literally. California was rioting, getting burned down. Like nobody gave a. You know, like, it was straight anarchy out there.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

And then here comes these two little white rich boys who killed their parents into the same courtroom of the judge who just had set off the entire fucking Rodney King.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

How is that fair that that judge.

[C]

Should not be able to practice?

[B]

He should have taken a year off.

[C]

It's like, bro, okay, I'm going to go. Like, I'm going to go to Israel.

[B]

Like, why are you still in the courtroom? Like, it's just crazy to me.

[C]

That part of the. I didn't know that part until you had told me the other night. And I was like, no freaking way. Y. Like, it explains so much of, like, how this trial ended up happening.

[B]

That was crazy. But you want to know what else is a just crazy Lyles. To pay.

[C]

To pay, man.

[B]

To pay or not to pay. That is the question.

[C]

Oh, my gosh. So in the docu series, though, on Netflix, and they did a fantastic job portraying this toupee.

[B]

Are you talking about Ryan Murphy's. Yes.

[C]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

The toupees are on a life of its own in Ryan Murphy's docu series.

[C]

Dude, he's like. He's talking about, like, he's calling in his jail and he's like, I just need the tapes. I just need the tapes for my toupee. And he's got, like, little latches. Oh, my God.

[B]

When you find out about the toupee, though, it's actually the man most sad, sad, tragic.

[C]

It is story.

[B]

I mean, this entire story sucks. We haven't even gotten into all of it yet. We're just literally tip of the iceberg.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

That toupee. First of all, I didn't know it was a toupee.

[C]

I had no idea. No idea.

[B]

But then when you look back when they play old court, you can tell.

[C]

There'S a good separation.

[B]

You can tell it's not even blended.

[C]

It's not. I was looking at it the other night when I was watching, watching that. And like the back, you can literally see it, like sticking up. And I was like that. I just thought that was a cowlick.

[B]

Literally, like nobody knew. And then here's Eric with just luxurious curly locks. Lyle got this into the shingle, man. All right, so moving forward, I just had. We had to have a moment of silence for the dupe.

[C]

Really. We did. And I mean, now if you guys look at pictures, pictures of him, he has just gone ahead and shaved his head.

[F]

Yeah.

[C]

Good for you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, good for you. Attaboy. Thanks. Thanks for just embracing it.

[C]

We love it.

[B]

Because if he was still wearing the toupee, though, I wonder if they get out if he wears the toupee. If he puts the toupee back on.

[C]

He's, he's, he's, he's a bald. Just majestic. He's rocking it.

[B]

Just majestic.

[C]

Unicorn.

[B]

Yes. All right, all right.

[A]

So.

[B]

Diving into the boys life stories and this is where it all gets crazy and you get to learn everything. Yeah. Buckle up. Jose, the father, was born into a wealthy family in 1944 in Havana, Cuba, to an elite family of doctors and lawyers. So, I mean, Jose was used to a certain lifestyle. He grew up with money. But he ended up losing everything during the revolution, and him and his family became refugees and had to flee from Cuba. And they came from Cuba to America to rebuild.

[C]

But rebuilding at that kind of stature, you're kind of already starting a little level up.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it depends. Did his parents put money away? Did they have like a little nest? Or did they really come here with nothing and have to start from the ground up?

[C]

Yeah, but you still have some skills, you know, you're going to be able to utilize those in some way. Yeah.

[B]

Eric had said that his father had this unstoppable drive that you were either afraid of or pulled in by. I feel like that's me. I feel like I'm just like, you either like it or you don't. I understand how it feels to like, be a hard worker, you know, and like, just want to accomplish it because.

[C]

Sometimes I just want to turn it off. Sometimes I'm just like, let's let me just turn off my brain. But, like, that's not how that works. Literally, I work on my deathbed. It's crazy.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. Kitty Menendez was glamorous, goodlooking, and fiery. They said she wanted to be in radio, theater, or have a career. So, you know, here's two people that are pretty driven, that know what they want, and somehow they have crossed paths and decided to make a family together. Jose became a huge successful business businessman by his 40s, and he was head of RCA Records and Hertz, as well as managing Menudo, who later on. There is a documentary that's actually on Netflix right now. I think it's Netflix Peacock right now, where the lead singer of Menudo says that Jose Menendez did something to him too. I can't speak on it. I haven't seen that documentary, but I definitely want to watch it. So, I mean, this is par for the course. And you have to understand, understand, like, there's so much abuse here that has had witnesses and everything still panned out the way it did. So from the outside, it was a perfect all American family. During this court case and trial, Dr. Ozil takes the stand as well as Deutelon. And the minute those two hit the stand, it's a circus. So this supreme court had subpoenaed Dr. Ozil's confessions from the boys, and it was taking a lot longer than they had planned on it taking. So during this time, that's whenever the boys were accused of trying to escape. So that's when they found the letter. And in the letter. So in the 17 page letter that Lyle had written to Eric, Lyle was telling Eric that revealing the six secrets of the family would be like killing his family all over again. And he didn't want to do that. Yeah. And Eric was supposed to destroy the letter, but because he didn't, prosecution now had hard evidence of a confession written by Lyle. So even though they were waiting on Dr. Ozil's tapes, they now had what they needed to convict the boys.

[C]

But from the beginning, the boys never claimed. Claimed innocence.

[B]

No, they didn't.

[C]

They didn't at all.

[B]

But they still claimed self defense.

[C]

Yeah, but still in court had to prove what type of murder.

[B]

Right.

[C]

It was. So just so you guys understand, they did not come into this being like, oh, we're innocent. We didn't do it. The mob still did it. No, these boys, literally. Yep, we did it.

[B]

Yes, we did it. But we did it because yes.

[C]

So this whole trial is based on what type of murder this is.

[B]

Yeah. Eric has gone on to record to say, I felt terrible because my brother was expressing his pain and it was so dear to him that I just, I couldn't throw away the letter. And in return it helped convict them. But not realizing that it was actually what is going to save them. You know, like, I know it's taken 30 something years, but that letter right there is the reason why these boys are getting so much love and compassion.

[C]

Yes. Yes. It's their truth.

[B]

And I, you know, I had in my notes here, I just said, could you imagine being accused of killing your parents for money when you're harboring these horrific secrets and you're both still not saying anything as you're being tried for the murder of your parents?

[G]

If you snore and your partner hasn't moved to another room yet, congratulations. You've either found true love or your partner has no other place to go. Let's talk about what your partner really wants in bed. Silence. If you actually want to impress them in bed, stop snoring and give them a full night's sleep. Xipa is the only FDA approved and patented anti snoring solution invented by a leading sleep doctor that stops snoring at the source. Zipa has a 91% success rate backed by a 91 night sleep guarantee. For a limited time, go to Zepa.com and use the code Bunny or text BUNNIE to 511511 and get the absolute best solution guaranteed to stop your snoring with the Happy Z Pack and get over 24% off. Plus Zeba will donate $10 to Breast Cancer Research. Visit Zyppah.com use the code Bunny or or text Bunny to 511-511 and get over 24% off with the Happy Z Pack and start improving your sleep health today. Remember, ZIPA is Happy Z spelled backwards. Text fees may apply.

[A]

My fall routine is already packed. Podcasts, glam travel, you name it. Cooking hard pass factor keeps me fed like a queen with chef prepped dietitian approved meals that are ready in minutes. Comfort food but make it healthy. More variety, more meals. Choose from a wider selection of weekly meal options including premium seafood choices like salmon and shrimp at no cost. Support your wellness goals. Enjoy even more GLP1 friendly meals and new Mediterranean diet options packed with protein and good for you fats. Savor global flavors for the first time. Try Asian inspired meals with bold flavors influenced by China, Thailand and more. For more choices to better nutrition. That's why 97% of customers say that factor helped them live a healthier life. Feel the difference? No matter your routine, eat smart@Factor Meals.com Bunny 50 off and use code Bunny 50 off to get 50 off your first box plus free breakfast for one year. What? That's code Bunny 50 off@Factor Meals.com for 50 off your first box plus free Breakfast for one year. Get delicious ready to eat meals delivered with factor Offer only valid for new factor customers with code and qualifying auto renewing subscription purchase.

[B]

Like, that's just crazy. That's just crazy to me.

[C]

I can't believe they kept that in and weren't going to talk about it.

[B]

I know. But luckily enough, Leslie, Ms. Abramson was a gangster and she was like, she's super smart and she acted quick. She set the boys up with a defense expert to start trying to pull the real story of what had happened out of the boys. So enter in this defense expert who really needs these boys to open up and talk about what would happen. Yeah. You would think that in the first session they would just. Just word vomit.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

No, they did not.

[C]

Of course not.

[B]

They did not. The first session with the defense expert did not go as planned. He couldn't get anything out of Eric because he didn't trust him. Because of Dr. Ozil.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

So poor little Eric, you know, just has all these little secrets and, you know, just does not want to open up because he's scared and doesn't trust anybody.

[C]

Every man in his life has let him down, literally.

[B]

And then Lyle said that he would have rather have lost the trial than revisit what had happened, which I don't blame him. Yeah, yeah. No, Poor Lyle. You know, like every. A lot of us sympathize with Eric just because he's such a sweet little baby. And, like, Lyle puts on this tough exterior, but at the same time, it's like, I think I'm a lot like ly too.

[C]

I see the pain in Lyle a lot more.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. No, it's just when you see these boys cry on the stand, it is heart wrenching.

[C]

And if you say that's fake, we have a difference in opinion.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. Eric wouldn't open up and kept saying how great of a man his father was and wouldn't break. Like, so literally, you're sitting in front of a defense expert who's going to save your ass if you just start talking and you're telling him that your dad is a great man. Like, tell me that's not programming. PTSD programming, though, too, because crazy. You know, Jose drilled. Oh, that into their heads.

[C]

You know, literally. He still feared for his life even though his ability abuser was gone.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

No, it's just. It's so sad. And that right there shows severe trauma.

[C]

Yes. That. The fact that people couldn't see that is beyond me.

[B]

Yeah. So they started calling family and family doctors in as witnesses because the boys just would not open up. And we're gonna play a lot of clips for you. I really think this is a different podcast than what we normally do, so we want. Want you to hear it from these people's own words instead of me quoting them, because I really think that it's.

[C]

More.

[B]

For you to just hear is so important to me, because, you know, me saying it, you don't get to hear the. The emotion that's coming from these people. But just to sum it up before we go into all these clips is. So they all testified about physical abuse. Sexual. Sexual abuse. Emotions.

[C]

Okay, Chicago.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's like a bad cat. It's terrible.

[B]

It sounds like Bussy.

[C]

He did that in the pool area the other day, and everyone was like, I've never known he could bark.

[B]

Oh, the dude barks loud and deep.

[C]

All right, good. All right.

[B]

They all testified about physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse. All witnesses of what these boys had gone through with horrific stories. And yet nobody did anything to ever help those boys until now that their parents were already dead. Which to me, it's like, okay, maybe that everybody was scared of Jose and just didn't want to rock the boat, but at the same time, I'm sorry, but if I know my little niece or my little nephew is getting fucking hurt, I'm going to step up and I'll take that kid myself. Fight me for it.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

No, there's no way.

[A]

You don't just.

[C]

Yeah, I. In my head, I'm like, also, even if they tried, I. I don't feel like those boys would have willingly gone.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, true. That's a good point, too. The only person who had anything nice to say about Jose Menendez was his secretary, and that's probably because he was. Yeah, exactly.

[C]

Allegedly.

[B]

Allegedly.

[C]

Absolutely. You don't. You do not have. Have this man's back worth. And if you do, he either like, owes you money or was dicking you down.

[B]

They couldn't find one character witness to say he was a good. A good human.

[C]

That just shows. Oh, gross.

[B]

So starting out with the test of. With the. The testimonies of the people who came on. There was an aunt that testified that at 2 years old, Jose would hang the young boys from a super high bar until they couldn't hang anymore. So, like, imagine being two years old being put up on this bar and you're just sitting there being hung. Two years old, you have no muscle, you have no, like, nothing. And when the boys would start crying, he would beat them. He would hit them until. And tell them, like, why are you crying? Stop crying and I'll let you down. And then would hit him, do it again, put him back.

[C]

I might cry during this podcast.

[B]

Literally, like, and this is at 2 years old, you know, and then he. So he would do that to Eric and then he would do that to Lyle, and Lyle wouldn't cry. So he would pin the boys against each other. So Lyle always had to be the tough one, you know, so he would be like, oh, Eric, why can't you be like your brother, you know? And like, just literally just berate these boys. And this is at 2 and 3 years old, or however far apart they are. So the first cousin who actually has passed away, his name is Andy Kano. He went on the stand and he talks about how he found a jar of Vaseline in 13 year old Eric's room. And we're gonna hear that testimony now.

[F]

I believe I was around 11 years old. It's the best I can do.

[D]

Okay, so if you're 11, then Eric's about 13 and a half to 14.

[C]

Right.

[F]

When we went back to his room, I remember seeing a jar of Vaseline. What? I didn't know what it was used for or what it was then, but I figured it was a type of ointment that you put on scratches and so on.

[D]

Okay, so did you, did you try to use it for your scratch?

[F]

I picked it up and Eric immediately told me to put it back down.

[D]

Okay. Did he say anything else about it?

[F]

No, he didn't. He just said, don't touch it.

[D]

Well, did you explain why you wanted to use it?

[F]

Yes, I told him I was just gonna put it on my scratch.

[D]

And did he tell you anything about that?

[F]

Yeah, he said that's not what it's for. He was actually trying to find out if any of these massages were normal. And I. My response to him was that I wouldn't know. I didn't have a father around. My parents were divorced then. Well, he told me his father was massaging his dick.

[D]

He used that word?

[F]

Yes, he did. Knew from recent talks with Eric that he was suicidal. And that's what I was worried about. I was worrying about him. And I remember one time on the airplane, he locked himself in the bathroom for about an hour. It seemed to me like an hour. I was waiting and waiting and waiting for him to come out. And I went and knocked because I was very worried about what he might have done in that bathroom.

[E]

Did you believe at that time that.

[B]

He was having a guilty conscience about killing his parents?

[F]

I didn't believe anything. I just believed that I was very worried about him. Your cousin was a good friend of yours, right? Yes, he was and is.

[C]

So this is just goes to show people knew about this.

[B]

Yeah, this is just the beginning, so.

[C]

And it's a kid that knows about it, too, which makes me feel bad for all the people he did complain, confess this to, because they don't know how to handle that.

[B]

Yeah. So this is his cousin. And what he's talking about is Eric confessed to him that his dad was massaging his penis and with. And with the Vaseline that was in his room. This is being testified in court. You know, Eric's how old, did he say? 13 right now? So they don't even know how long this abuse has been going on. They just literally knew, bits and pieces.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Next up is Lyle and Eric's aunt, who is talking about the signs of sexual abuse, and she's testifying in front of the courtroom for everybody to hear.

[E]

Well, I had to go to Kitty and Jose's room because it then got to be very late. It was going. It was originally like around 6, 6:30, and it now was getting on to be 7:30, 8 o'. Clock. And I was extremely hungry. It's been a long day. And I knocked on Kitty's door of their room, and Kitty was in the room, but there was no Jose. And she said that he was down in Eric's room. Did Eric have a room in the same hotel? Yes, he did. If I can remember right, it was like about two to three rooms down from their room. So she told you that Jose's in Eric's room? Correct. What happened then? She then said that we had to wait until Jose came out of Eric's room before we could go to dinner. So did you wait in her room or return to your room? No, I went back to my room. And did you subsequently get information that Jose was now back? What had happened was I had to go there one more time. I went back to her room and said, you know, Kitty, it's really getting very late. Why don't we just go down to Eat. And she said, no, no, it'll only be a few more moments. Jose should be coming out of his room. And how much time before Jose did come out of Eric's room? If I can remember right, it was like around eight, 8:30, a quarter to nine. And what happened then? We then were walking down the hallway and you say we. Oh, I'm sorry. It was Kitty, myself, Brian and Jose. The four of us. And what happened then was we said we would like to go in and see Eric to at least tell him that we thought the game was very well. We were sorry that he lost. Jose made fun of that. But as we were out there in front of the room, he said, well, okay, Eric is in his room and he will not be coming to dinner with us. So he opened the room. And who opened the room? Jose. Did he have the key? Yes. And when he opened the room, he. We looked in and it was a short hallway like you would have, like in a Holiday Inn or something like that. We then I looked in the room and it was very dimly lit and Eric was in bed. How did he look? He looked very sad. And you could tell something was wrong with him. Okay. He didn't want to speak to us. And I was going to go over and give him a hug. And I was told that I shouldn't do that, that Eric just didn't want people to hug him.

[B]

So this is an aunt testifying that she's witnessing weird behaviors. And apparently, you know, from a very young age, these boys were allowed to be alone with their dad, locked on whatever floor he decided to choose. And Kitty, the mother, would make sure that nobody went on the floors and would never go in the rooms to see what Jose was doing with these boys.

[C]

The mom knew.

[B]

Of course the mom knew.

[C]

The mom knew.

[B]

The mom is a fucking scallywag. It's just disgusting what she's allowed these boys to. To have to go through.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

There's just so much. It's just. It's just really, really terrible. So one of the boys cousins testified that he found a container of human feces under Lyle's bed. Lyle explained to him that he would be too scared to go to the bathroom. Sometimes when he was being punished, he wouldn't be allowed to leave his room to go. He also was wet the bed until his very late teen years, which is a very, very big sign of abuse.

[C]

Huge sign of a. With the bedwetting.

[B]

Eric was molested and raped from around the ages of 6 years old, all the way up until he was 18 by Jose. His family witnessed how he became extremely distressed at any meal that he ate. When he couldn't eat lemon or ketchup with it, he put lemon and ketchup on his food as he found it diminished the taste of his father's semen that he would be made to swallow.

[C]

This makes me want to cry.

[B]

Is that not insane?

[C]

It makes me want to cry because the fact that these boys have had to live an entire life behind bars but had already lived in their own personal hell is beyond me. It's.

[B]

It's disgusting. I mean. So Lyle was also molested from the time he was 6 until I believe 14. So Jose started molesting both of the boys around 6 years old. For some reason it stopped with Lyle. And I think it's because Lyle put up a fight.

[C]

Yeah, I think he would be scared that Lyle would say something. Eric was so much more of like someone he could dominate and Eric air. And Lyle was just so hard headed that if he continued to do that, I bet you Lyle would have said something.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Family members testified that when Jose was with one or both of the boys in the bedroom or in the shower with them, you were not under any circumstances allowed on the same floor of the house with them. You weren't allowed to check what was going on. And no one was allowed to see the boys. Straight after, one of the family members tried to tell the boy's mother, Kitty, what was going on. And it turns out she knew the entire time. And Kitty called her a liar. This woman, Kitty is just a fucking nightmare. Let's talk about Kitty really quick because there is a bunch of things that I would like to say about Kitty that I have. Kitty literally let these boys just get molested because she was literally. She hated her sons. She has gone on record to therapists and said she feels like her sons ruined her life. She hated being a mother. She didn't like it. She was physically and sexually abusive with the boys also. And here's a couple of facts about Kitty. So Kitty didn't just enable what was happening to her sons, but she participated, participated in their abuse, both both physically and sexually. She had Lyle sleep in the same bed as her and had him touch her till he was the age of 13.

[C]

What the.

[B]

And sometimes further than that age. Her own son touching her inappropriately anywhere. And Lyle, while recounting the events and trial, testified she loved it.

[C]

That is so sick that.

[B]

Like how do you not. You got one parent that's a complete, just say Satanist, like just disgusting devil yes, but then you've got the wife who's a devil too. Like, how does that work that you find two pieces of that just fall in love with each other?

[C]

I mean, they are together because they're the same human. Ugh. It is disgusting that anyone, anyone at all, would do anything involving a child, let alone your own child.

[B]

Yeah. On several accounts she told people, most notably her therapist, she hated her children. They ruined her life, happiness, and her marriage. She would lock them in cupboards to do their homework because they were terrible in school due to their abuse and wouldn't give them food or water for hours.

[C]

The abuse just keeps getting worse and worse. I know we're like just at the beginning of this and like, if you guys by the end of this don't understand, like, why, why we feel the way we feel, it's crazy to me.

[B]

Lyle also testified that his mother would beat him, kick him, and drag him around by his hair, considering he was already losing his hair due to immense stress at such a young age. So that is why Lyle had to wear a 25 point pay because of all the abuse that was going on in the house. It was stressing him out that even in high school he was in ninth grade, losing his hair because he was so stressed out because he was internalizing so much. Eric testified that his mother sexually violated him and would often walk around the house naked or semi naked in his presence when Jose or Lyle wasn't around. It's gross, man. So like you're getting raped by your father and then your mom's doing weird too.

[C]

I don't like it. Not only did they bring forward family members who are like, hey, this is what we have personally witnessed in all of this. We also had a doctor testify that 7 year old Eric had a medical record of SA. So yes, this had already been looked into and no one helped him.

[B]

Yeah, there was a doctor, doctor that literally said the back of. Was it Eric's third or Lyle?

[C]

Eric's.

[B]

Yeah. The back of Eric's throat was injured so badly that it could have only been done by sexual abuse. Like, why did nobody step in right then and take those kids?

[C]

And this doctor went on trial for these boys and admitted this and showed like proof. Like, that is proof.

[B]

Jose ruled with an iron fist. He literally kept that house so scared that even one time he, the family dog, he cut the dog's head off and put the dog's head in a freezer and let Lyle and Eric see this dead dog's head in their freezer every day. To just scare them and intimidate them and to teach them a lesson.

[C]

Because we talk about this like, these boys being still so willing to protect their dad's honor. Imagine having your life threatened that much that you are literally afraid to live and like that. I don't know that just. These boys literally became stuck.

[B]

No, they. They were literally just beaten. Little puppies.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And, you know, you. You raise a child in the jungle, they're gonna act like a monkey, Right? Like, these kids never had childhoods. They literally were getting molested and raped by age 6. And that's all they knew. It got to the point where Eric liked it.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Because he didn't know that it was wrong.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And he testifies that. And you guys will hear that from his own mouth, you know, like, it's disgusting.

[C]

If you. You literally birth a child and tell it that the sky is purple, they're.

[B]

Going to believe you.

[C]

They are going to until the day they die. Probably tell everyone around them, no, that sky is purple. You guys are the crazy ones. You guys think it's blue. I know it's purple.

[B]

Yeah. My mom and dad told me. So. Yeah. When they did the search of the house, Jose would take naked photos of both of them and. And would crop their faces out so there would only be pictures of them from the neck down. And he kept those photos in their home. And the mom's kitty's handwriting was found on the front of the envelope that they were kept in. It's so bad. It's just so bad. Like, all of it is just so disgusting.

[C]

Dude.

[B]

So here's the doctor testifying about Eric having medical record of sexual abuse.

[E]

Dr. English, have you had access to certain medical records of Eric Menendez?

[C]

Yes.

[E]

Did you see any indication in Eric Menendez's medical records of an injury to his throat area?

[H]

Yes.

[E]

The document indicates that there was an injury to the throat of Eric Menendez sometime in 1977.

[H]

Yes. The direct quote is posterior pharynx, uvula and soft palate.

[E]

The report of injury in that medical record, could that be caused by child, in your opinion?

[F]

Yes.

[B]

Do you have any opinion as to.

[E]

What type of child sexual abuse could have resulted in that particular complaint?

[H]

Oral copulation.

[B]

That's a doctor on the stand confirming that this little boy has an injury from a penis in the back of his throat.

[C]

Yes. No one thinks to even bad an eye at that.

[B]

It's just. It's so frustrating. This entire case is beyond frustrating because nobody helped these boys. The judicial system failed him. His family failed them. Everybody failed these boys.

[C]

And when we get to the. The jury and how, like, this trial goes on, it makes me sick to my stomach to see how they voted within the trial. And, like, you were literally given all of this evidence. There's more. We're like, we're still getting into it, you guys.

[B]

There's so much and, like, we're not even going to be able to cover how much evidence. Like, if you, like, if you have not already go down this wormhole.

[C]

Yes, please do.

[B]

Crazy.

[C]

Please do.

[B]

So next we're going to hear from Eric talking about being molested by his father.

[H]

I hid from him. I. I put cinnamon in his drinks and his coffee and his tea.

[D]

Why did you put cinnamon in his drinks?

[E]

Well.

[H]

At the time, I was in seventh grade, and I. I had a group of kids, friends of mine, that were really involved. They weren't involved, but they talked a lot about sex, and it made me very uncomfortable, so I would sort of shy away and just listen.

[D]

What did you hear that led to putting cinnamon in your father's drinks, if anything?

[H]

I heard that it made it taste better.

[D]

It made what taste better?

[H]

Semen.

[D]

And so you did it so it would taste better?

[H]

Yes.

[D]

Now, was it at some point after you were 11 years old that you developed a rather peculiar eating habit?

[H]

Yes.

[D]

Did you think it was peculiar?

[H]

No.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

That's my work.

[H]

Yes.

[D]

What did you do?

[H]

I. I used a lot of lemon in my food.

[D]

And what do you mean by used.

[E]

A lot of lemon?

[D]

What are we talking about here?

[H]

Well, in essence, I would put the lemon in the bowl first and then put whatever I was going to put in the bowl, like fish or rice or whatever. Sometimes I just pour the lemon over the food if it was already on the plate, but otherwise I would. I would just dry my food in lemon.

[D]

All of your food.

[H]

Soup and meat, chicken, the fish, the rice. Pretty much everything.

[D]

So would you consume a large quantity of lemon every week?

[H]

Every day. And.

[D]

When you're eating all this lemon, did you notice it had any effect on your sense of taste?

[I]

Yes.

[D]

What would happen?

[H]

I wouldn't taste as much.

[D]

You wouldn't taste as much of your food?

[H]

I did it for a specific purpose, but it didn't. It didn't seem to work all that well.

[D]

What was the purpose for which you were doing it?

[H]

So that I wouldn't have to taste my dad's.

[D]

Okay, let me ask you something. Where did the lemon come from? It. You go and buy it for yourself.

[H]

The idea. Where the idea come from?

[D]

No, no. Where did the actual lemon that you're putting on everything come from?

[H]

Oh, for my mother.

[D]

And would your mother, did she ever run out of lemon?

[H]

Yes.

[D]

And would she be concerned about that?

[H]

Yes.

[D]

So did she make it a point of trying to always keep you supplied with lemon?

[H]

She kept stocks of lemon.

[D]

Did mother ever ask you why you were drowning all of your food in lemon? No.

[H]

It was a big joke in the family and the relatives and so on, but no one ever asked me why.

[D]

She never asked you why?

[H]

No.

[I]

Overall.

[C]

Word.

[B]

It's terrible. Like it's really just terrible what these heart wrenching have gone through. I just couldn't imagine knowing that my sons are literally drowning their food in lemon because they don't want to swallow my husband's cum, you know? She knew.

[C]

Oh, she absolutely knew. There's nothing in my mind that would ever tell me that she didn't know exactly what was going on.

[B]

Here's Lyle talking about the abuse. In his words.

[H]

My mother was mostly the one that would explode about the bed wedding or punish me about the bed wedding. Sometimes. Sometimes she would rub my face in the sheets. She refused to change the sheets. I'd sleep on the floor until.

[E]

How old?

[H]

14. Say you're a sissy like your brother. He'd just be totally disgusted, didn't want to talk to me. Sometimes we'd skip practices if I was. My mom had said that I wet my bed and I would get beaten for.

[E]

Were you ever taken to a doctor?

[C]

No.

[H]

I was very embarrassed and I believed that it was a big flaw and I was trying desperately to not do it.

[D]

We were in the kitchen one morning and he started getting. Lyle started getting yelled at by Jose and Kitty saying he was a sissy and a baby because he had wet his bed. And he started being called. They were calling him names and getting mad at him. That's all I know. I left.

[E]

Why'd you leave?

[D]

Why stay? I went downstairs to my room. What did Lyle look like? Scared.

[E]

How old were you when you started noticing that you were losing some hair?

[H]

14.

[E]

And did you. Did some people tease you about it?

[H]

Yes.

[E]

And who is it that teased you about it?

[H]

Mostly tennis coaches. Occasionally someone at school would say something about it. I was losing very little hair, but still was disturbing to me.

[E]

Did you get a hairpiece then?

[H]

Yes.

[E]

And are you wearing it today?

[B]

Yes. So that was Lyle talking about the abuse. And then they put in another family member who had witnessed the abuse also. I mean like this. We're talking like hours and hours, hours and hours of testimony and People and family members who literally are coming forward saying, yes, these boys are not lying. Like, these are all situations that have happened. So the courts had all of this.

[C]

Confessions of them from. From them. You had doctors, you had relatives, you had everyone you could possibly imagine. Therapists. And still these somehow jurors are looking at it with their preconceived notions and just making these decisions based off of what. How they felt personally.

[B]

It's just crazy. Kitty actually went on record to her therapist as saying that she was hiding sick and dark family secrets. Like, this is the mother saying this to therapists, and still nobody helped them. Kitty ripped off Lyle's hairpiece in front of Eric, who didn't even know that he had one. He had it to cover his. The fact that his hair had been falling out. So, like, this family thrived on humiliation and making these boys just breaking them down, making them feel bad. Like, Eric didn't even know that Ly was losing his hair. And Kitty rips it off in front of Eric to just humiliate and embarrass.

[C]

They treated them like dogs.

[B]

Yeah. No, it's. I mean, I feel like they're treating. People treat dogs better than these children.

[C]

You know, they treated them like these kids didn't have emotions.

[B]

We're gonna play one more thing of Eric talking about the abuse on stand. And if you want to keep deep diving, you are more than welcome to. There's just so. There's so little time and so much.

[C]

This is in that new series that just dropped all of it. Netflix. So if you guys want to watch the actual tapes of the courtroom. Yeah. They just put all of it on Netflix. I highly, highly, highly recommend that you go watch that.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. So this will be the last one.

[H]

She would say, what, are you gay? Or are you not man enough for her? Are you just not. You're just not a man enough person to be with her? Is this what's. Is this what you're probably problem is? She would really get down on me.

[D]

So she gave you the impression that she questioned whether or not you were gay?

[H]

Yes.

[D]

Mr. Menendez, did you ever question in your mind whether or not you were gay?

[H]

Yes.

[D]

And why was that, if you know?

[H]

That's because I. I didn't understand what was happening with my father. What do you mean you didn't understand it in California? I didn't understand why it didn't hurt so much and anymore. And I didn't understand how I just felt like was having more friends because I had a car and I was Able to play tennis with them. And I was a little bit more independent, and I felt like I was supposed to be stronger. And I would still be doing this with dad, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't scream at him or fight back with him because I was afraid, but I, I didn't, I still thought I should have, and I would still be able to have an orgasm.

[D]

Okay, so those things, those factors made you wonder if, in fact, maybe you were gay. Maybe that's why this is happening. Maybe that's why I don't resist. Maybe that's why it doesn't hurt.

[H]

Is that what you mean? Yes. I didn't understand.

[D]

And did these concerns about whether or not you were gay, did this box you?

[H]

Yeah, it was on my mind a lot. I, I, it bothered me.

[D]

Did you think it was wrong for somebody to be gay, or was it just that you didn't know what you were?

[H]

No, we didn't think I was wrong to think I was.

[D]

You didn't understand my question. Do you think it's, it was wrong for people to be gay?

[H]

No. So what was, was just that I was confused and was difficult for me. My mom made it seem like it was worse than death to be gay. And I didn't think I was. I just, I didn't know. I, I really didn't understand.

[D]

Did you like girls?

[H]

Yes.

[D]

Were you attracted to girls?

[G]

Yes.

[D]

And eventually, did you, you have intimate relationships with girls?

[H]

Yes.

[D]

You said your mom made it sound like the worst thing in the world. Did your father make gay jokes?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Did your father call you a particular name? Associated, Associated negative name for.

[H]

Yeah, he called me a faggot.

[D]

Did he call you that a lot?

[H]

Yeah, he called me a fag or a faggot. He used both of them. He, he hated gay people. And he absolutely refused to accept that what was happening between us. He just said that it wasn't any of the, that he hated that.

[D]

Without naming him, is, Was there a relative on your mother's side of the family that was perceived by the family as being gay?

[H]

He was gay.

[D]

Okay.

[H]

Well, we didn't know that. We just felt that he was okay.

[D]

And how did your father talk about or treat that particular individual?

[H]

He ridiculed him, made fun of him, talked a lot, but behind his back would say things like, you don't want to be. I don't want to say his name. You don't want to be like this person. He would. One time, I remember Lyle bought the same color and same, same, Basically the same type of shoe as this person was wearing. And he made fun of Lyle for the longest time for it.

[D]

For getting the same kind of shoes as the relative.

[H]

Yes.

[D]

Now, what did you think when your father, who is having sex with you, is taunting you with being gay?

[H]

I was real confused. I didn't think that what dad and I was doing was a gay thing. I thought it was just what dad and I was doing. And. But it made me real confused because it didn't hurt like I thought it should anymore. And so I didn't understand.

[D]

When your father called you faggot, did you ever answer him back in your head?

[F]

Yes.

[D]

What did you say?

[H]

I said to them, what the hell are you.

[B]

So this poor kid doesn't even know if he's gay or not because. Because he's been getting molested so much by his father since he was six years old.

[C]

Yeah. This. In all of this, you guys, they not only were forced to do ungodly things to their father, their father was doing ungodly things to them. And this included, you know, touching them down there and also forcing them to shove things and being sodomized. And it was with multiple different things. So not only was they. Both of them were receiving such trauma from their father, forcing them to put things in there, forcing them to do things to them. That bio then went on to do the same thing to Eric, which he.

[B]

Testifies about that on the stand, and he talks about it, and there's so much where Lyle holds it together, but the minute he talks about what he did to his brother, he breaks down crying and is. And says very audibly, I'm so sorry. And Eric said that was the first time that his brother ever apologized to him.

[C]

You can also see in that video, Eric just, like, biting onto his knuckle just with all his might, and is so sad to watch because you can watch the true pain in both of them come out. That, to me, was, like, the breaking point of the trial. It truly, to me, he. They both showed how human they were.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, these boys really bared their souls, dude. Like, they were just like, look that we up. Yeah, majorly. But this is why we up. Eric has gone on to say in an interview that he misses his mother and wishes that he would not have murdered her.

[C]

Her.

[B]

He craves that affection and love that he wanted from his mother so badly, and he still wishes he could sit down with her and have a conversation.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Even after all the abuse that she's put him through, he still just wants his mommy.

[C]

They're lost little babies Both of them never received any type of love from anyone.

[B]

They don't know what love is like.

[C]

They have no idea what love is like.

[B]

They don't at all.

[C]

And it's so sad.

[B]

No, it's so, so sad. And they. Eric also says that it's more difficult with his father. Lyle also testified emotionally that the sexual abuse started at 6 years old. As Lyle testified. Eric starts bawling. Lyle said he told his mother about the abuse, and her reply was, he has to punish you and think when you do bad things. I hope Kitty Menendez is rotting in hell.

[C]

Absolutely. You are justifying the actions of your sick, monstrous husband.

[B]

Like, get out of here, disgusting lady.

[C]

You're just as awful as he is.

[B]

No, you're disgusting. He then goes on to talk about how he started abusing Eric because of what was being done to him when. When Lyle reveals this moment, too. If you guys go watch the clip. The judge's face during this. Like, I don't know how the judge wasn't move to tears because his face was just like. Like, he could not soak in all of the. That these boys had been through, you know? Anyways, so when Lyle did apologize to Eric on the stand, the entire courthouse was crying, too.

[C]

Yeah, you can't. I literally.

[B]

You could hear a pin drop.

[C]

Yes. Like, I was so emotional at that point.

[B]

And remember, this is all televised.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So the world is watching this happen to these boys. So Eric had also tried to tell Jose to stop, you know, molesting him. And Jose threatened Eric with a knife and told him that he would kill him if he told anybody or if the sex between them stopped. Eric also tried to leave and go to college. He was like, yeah, this is my out. I'm gonna finally get to go to Stanford. I'm gonna be away from my dad. And Jose said, absolutely, Absolutely not. You're gonna go to ucla and you're gonna live in this house because, like, I believe, like, Jose was, like, in love with Eric. Yeah.

[C]

And that probably explains why the abuse went on for so long. Again, that goes back to what I said earlier, is he felt like he had control over Eric while years before, he had sort of lost control of Lyle.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Cooler days call for layers that last. And quince is my go to for quality essentials that feel cozy. Layers look refined and won't blow your budget. Everybody talks about 50 Mongolian cashmere and premier denim from Quints, but for me, it's their gym wear. The quality is insane. It feels like the same luxe brands you'd Find at high end athletic stores, but at a fraction of the price. Their leggings, sports bras and workout sets, they fit like a dream, hold up tough through workouts and look so good you'll want to wear them outside of the gym too. What I love is that Quint partners directly with top tier ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you get luxury level quality without the luxury level price tag. It's the kind of upgrade that feels smart, stylish and effortless. Whether you're lifting, running, or just living your life. Find your fall staples at quinte. Go to quince.com bunny that's B U N N I E for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quincee.combunny to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.combunny so you guys need to keep.

[B]

In mind that the deaths happened when Eric was 18. And the reason why all these, the reason why these murders happened was because Lyle had no idea that Eric was still being molested.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Lyle thought that it had stopped, just like it had stopped for him. And this is a family that clearly has zero community communication with each other. And Lyle found out that it was happening. And when he found out that it was happening, he went to his dad and confronted his dad and said, if you don't stop, I'm gonna go to the police. And Jose looked at him and said, you listen to me, what I do with my son is none of your business. And so Lyle went to Kitty and was like, hey, do you know that this is still going on? And Kitty goes, what do you think, I'm stupid? Like, these boys had nobody to protect them, bro. Nobody, nobody, nobody would help them. So Lyle testified that they killed their parents because the dad would not stop molesting Eric. And they feared that the father would try to kill them because they had confronted them. Yes, confronted him.

[C]

They say that they went and got these guns out of protection, right? Because they knew at any point Jose was just going to lose.

[B]

I mean, the dude cut a dog's head off and put it in a fucking fridge.

[C]

They knifed to his son's neck, literally.

[B]

Like, he's put stuff inside of them.

[C]

Of course they're gonna fear for their lives.

[B]

Like, they're totally scared of them. And I, what had sealed the deal was Kitty and Jose invited Eric and them out onto to a yacht. And they couldn't understand, like, why they were being forced to go out on this yacht. And this Entire trip, they thought that they were going to be killed.

[C]

They are so up in the mines that they have totally convinced themselves. And they could maybe not be wrong. Right. These two could have hated their children their whole lives. That they truly could have been planning, we don't know, to, like, maybe off them in an accident on the boat.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Nobody actually knows.

[B]

Here it is. In their own words.

[I]

Nothing about that trip made sense and in context with everything else that was going on, crisis that was happening in the family, we shouldn't have been out there.

[J]

Well, the story was that Mr. Menendez had a big deal that had gone through, and he was gonna go shark fishing.

[I]

There was no fishing at all that I remember now. I mean, that was the whole reason we were there. But there wasn't many fishing going. So it was like there was this pretense. We were there for one reason, but we were there really for a whole other reason.

[J]

Basically, the deckhand and I did everything. None of the four came back. They really kind of acted like they didn't want to have any part of it. The family, they were estranged almost the whole time. It was a weird vibe, just all around. As they came to the boat and we set sail off the dock, the boys moved up to the bow of the boat, and the parents basically went down inside the boat into the back.

[I]

Remember, a lot of waves, and the waves would crash over the boat, and the water was cold.

[J]

We actually took a wake over the bow, and it got the boys soaked, and the boys just sat there. They didn't bother going back to get a towel or anything to go warm up with. And they sat out there in the cold breeze, basically almost you know, the whole trip.

[I]

My mom was upset that there were more people on the boat than she anticipated. I guess she had only expected the boat captain to be there. And I remember thinking, why should she care? The idea of being alone on the ocean with nobody around. I was nervous and paranoid for a good reason. To this day, I wonder what was supposed to happen that night. The boat ride just seemed endless. And I remember just being up there, afraid. And so I just huddled at the front of the boat. My brother had a lot of questions. We talked about everything that had been happening, why I had gone through this and not told him. I think Lyle felt really horrible that he had suspected that this was happening because it had happened to him. I was trying to convince Lyle that, you know, there was nothing he could have done, that this wasn't his fault.

[C]

Speculation. They wanted to kill them.

[B]

Yeah, I think they definitely had bad intentions, for sure. Absolutely.

[C]

This goes back to. I think he feared Lyle.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I think the dad began to fear Lyle. And I believe that because Lyle's a.

[B]

Grown man at this time, can beat the shit out of him.

[C]

Yes. And I know that there was enough evidence that he truly believed that he would. His whole reputation and everything he had would be lost if Lyle was to come forward.

[B]

Also, during trial, they submitted an essay that Eric had written at 14 about somebody who rapes children. And they still overlooked that. I mean, like, there's just. The evidence is just crazy.

[C]

It's really sad that moving forward with this case and everything, after all of the evidence, that anyone could think any different of both of these boys. You even for them to be like, oh, they were acting. Oh, they were. This. The evidence is there. How could you ever assume that someone cry, had crocodile tears? That was another thing you saw. A lot of people kept saying, oh, the boys have crocodile tears. And I'm like, yeah, maybe they already cried out all their tears from, like, the lifelong hell that they just lived.

[B]

I don't think they were crocodile tears.

[C]

And when it finally broke, I think the breaking point. Point to me was him saying sorry. Those were, like, the truest emotions I'd ever seen. Out of both of them.

[B]

No, all of it. There was no crocodile tears. You could definitely see. These boys were in such pain, dude. Like, just so sad. So you guys just heard him talk about the fishing trip and how that scared the out of them, which is. That's what prompted them to go buy the shotguns to protect themselves. Because if Jose came in the room, ly said he was. Was going to blow Jose's head off.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

If he tried to hurt him. So the night of the murders, Jose came home and told Eric to go upstairs and wait for him. And they thought that they were going to be killed because. In the bedroom. Yeah, because Jose came in, he was in a mood, told Eric to go upstairs, and Lyle just snapped. He literally snapped and freaked out. He's already stressed out because his dad. He just found out his dad's still molesting his brother. You know, Jose told him to fucking go fuck himself. And then they took him out on this boat. I think Lyle just fucking snapped. He ran upstairs to Eric's room and said, this is it. We're gonna do it right now. And Eric was ready. Eric went and grabbed his gun, too. And then they went downstairs and just blew their parents away, dude.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, after learning everything that has happened with these boys, I don't see blame them.

[C]

I don't blame them at all.

[B]

Yeah. I don't blame them at all.

[C]

I would do the same damn thing.

[B]

So after all that, after the families, the doctors, the letters, everybody corroborating every bit of evidence that these boys have said and poured their hearts out, the jury is deadlocked and it's declared a mistrial.

[C]

Now, this is what pisses me me. This pisses me off more than anything. I learned in researching this, that it was split down the middle. That when they asked if, you know, was it this or it was that, all of the men in the room rose their freaking hands. That makes. And. And they said maybe like one woman or something. The rest were all women who were like, absolutely not.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The fact that those men in that room could not heartless believe that a man could do this to another man goes to show how heartless it was.

[B]

They were saying abuse isn't an excuse to kill. To kill.

[C]

What, Let me stick stuff off all of your butts. Yeah.

[B]

And then for fucking 10 years, 12 years like that, and fucking saw your dog's head off on top of it, getting your ass beat on top of getting your face rubbed in urine. Like these boys lived in a house of horrors.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And you're going to say that that's not an excuse.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Are you kidding me? And it then all the women, the reason this became a mistrial is because they truly sat there and argued and argued this. Because the women believed that these boys did not deserve this.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So it goes to mistress trial after. And they deliberated for what, 30 days?

[B]

No, was it 30? I thought it was five.

[C]

No.

[B]

Oh, was it 30 days?

[C]

I'm pretty sure we're going to fact check this.

[B]

We'll fact.

[C]

Pretty sure it was like a month.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, they were deadlocked, missed trial, and then now we move on to the second trial. And this is where the boys get literally. I don't want to use the terminology. They get literally. There's no other word that you can use. Like they literally got. Because the O.J. simpson trial. O.J. during all of this, the boys get the mistrial. And then right after that, OJ Goes on that chase. So he's in the. In this chase. He's in the media. It's a media circus. The boys have been forgotten about. Whatever. And. Oh, sorry.

[C]

It's okay.

[B]

Are you all right?

[C]

You're fine.

[G]

So.

[B]

The second trial begins eight days after the O.J. simpson trial. The boys never stood a chance.

[C]

No.

[B]

Literally, in both cases in both cases, because O.J. had just gotten acquitted and the world was pissed off.

[C]

The word was in dividend. Yes.

[B]

Yeah, Well, I mean, but they were really pissed off. Nobody really believed OJ didn't do it.

[C]

No. Exactly. And like, I feel like whoever got this case knew it was going to be just as popular as the OJ Case, if not more.

[B]

Well, that's where they got also is the judge ruled that the abuse excuse would not be allowed in this trial because the boys weren't women. So battered women syndrome couldn't be used as an excuse. So none of the abuse, none of the testimonies from the families, none of anything that was submitted in the last trial, Nothing could be submitted into this trial. Out, completely out. And no cameras.

[C]

And the jury that they chose had just witnessed and gone through the previous trial. So they already know everything. It's crazy to me. I just so mad, literally.

[B]

So there they decided to not make it a media circus. The boys couldn't submit everything that was stacked against them. And they went in and it was literally October 1995. A retrial of the brothers begins with one jury. This time around, much of the defense evidence about sexual abuse is excluded. March 1996, the jury convicts both brothers of first degree murder.

[C]

12 to 0.

[B]

12 to 0. You can't tell me that if they knew everything that was going on, like, in that household, that there wasn't. There wasn't one person with a heart, not one person.

[C]

Did they choose all 12 men. Like, yeah, like, get out of here.

[B]

It's just crazy. And then July of 1996, the brothers are sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. So that, my friends, is the trial as how the boys got convicted, how they are, where they are today, and why they've served, what, 34 to 30, 38 years in prison. And so now you know. May of 2023, the Peacock Docu series Menendez and Boys Betrayed. A former member of the boy band Menudo said in a sworn affidavit that he was raped by Jose Menendez when He was about 14. But, like, at least he's coming out now. And that helps the boys tremendously.

[C]

It does. And I feel like because of all of you guys deep diving into this, like we have.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

They are being seen in such a different light.

[E]

Yes.

[C]

And it's fine if you don't agree with us. All opinions are welcomed. But yeah, this is how we feel about this. If I was them, I probably would have done it too.

[B]

So since in lieu of all the light that's being shown on them. The attorneys for the Menendez brother file habeas petition asking the court to reconsider the conviction and sentence in light of new evidence from the Menudo band member and from a letter Eric wrote about the abuse prior to the killings. The attorney asked that the court either vacate the brother's conviction and sentence or permit discovery and an evidentiary hearing in which they can provide proof. The document says, so during this time, that's when monsters. September 2024, Netflix releases the true crime drama Monsters Lyle and Eric Menendez Story, a nine episode series co created by Ryan Murphy about the killings. The show is really more interested in talking about how monsters are made as opposed to Bourne, Murphy said, which he's not lying.

[C]

No.

[B]

These boys were made. They had to be monsters. They aren't monsters, but they had to be monsters because they're not monsters. They just did monstrous things. Yes. You know, and I truly try to have that opinion about anybody who has hurt somebody. But then when you have facts like this about a case, you can see that these boys really aren't monsters.

[C]

These boys only got six years. Yeah.

[E]

Before.

[C]

Before being sa.

[B]

And I'm sure they were still being abused. They were getting two. Yeah. At two years old, they were getting.

[C]

Already getting abused. Yeah.

[B]

So they've already been dealing with physical abuse and all that.

[C]

These boys didn't stand a chance ever. They never had a year of life.

[B]

Yeah. For sure.

[C]

I feel like the most these boys have been able to live is in prison.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Their life literally started the day they murdered their parents.

[B]

Yeah. And in a statement released by Eric, talking about the Ryan Murphy Netflix docu series, he pretty much states what we had said earlier. He said, he said, these horrible and blatant lies are taking us back to an era when the prosecution built a narrative on a belief system that males were not sexually abused and that males experience rape trauma differently than women. Those awful lies have been disrupted and exposed by countless brave victims over the last two decades who have been. Who have broken through their personal shame and bravely spoken out. So now Murphy shapes his horrible narrative through violent and appalling character portrayals of Lyle and I and disheartening slander. So, you know, they don't agree with it because, because Murphy did not show the empathy that he should have. And we talked about that earlier.

[C]

It most definitely not saying he did a bad job on it. Monsters is a fantastic series, but the main, main part of all of this was that he left out dehumanization of Those boys, right?

[B]

Absolutely. And now the good news. October 5, 2020, 2024. LA County District Attorney tells CNN Jim Acosta that he increasingly became concerned that it was critical that we reviewed the new evidence put forth by the defense. He noted that times had changed regarding how the public and the courts treat victims of sexual abuse. He said, and I quote, there is no question that our sensitivity to sexual assault is much more significant today. It has been clear, clearly established that both men and women can be sexually assaulted or boys and girls. I think 35 years ago, cultural norms were a little different. There is no question that a jury today would look at this case probably very differently than a jury did 35 years ago. He also notes that the shows and films about the case have had an impact. But for the documentary, quite frankly, we probably would not be talking at this point. He said, we may be talking later, but that certainty has increased in the attention by the public, and that's why we're being very public about where we are. So a hearing on the Menendez brothers petition is set for November 29th. Baby.

[C]

Yes. We get to watch this unfold.

[B]

Do you know that the world is going. I got goosebumps. The world is going to celebrate when those boys walk out of jail.

[C]

Absolutely. Can we also talk about. These boys have become completely different humans.

[B]

Oh, so different.

[C]

I want a painting. Can we talk about.

[B]

Yeah, which one paints Lyle or Eric?

[C]

I forget.

[B]

One of them paints, like, freaking Picasso.

[C]

One of them. Dang, I don't remember.

[B]

I think it's Eric. Eric and Lyle got all the, like, scholarship types.

[C]

He went on to being, like, a representative in, like, so many different, different aspects and making a difference in other people's lives. So first off, I do want to paint.

[B]

I want to paint Eric Menendez. I would like a painting, please.

[C]

Eric Menendez is the modern day Bob Ross.

[B]

Literally, like, and he works so good, like, it's crazy beautiful. You could just tell. He puts his whole entire life, his soul into it.

[C]

And they even said, like, they never even knew that he could draw. And, like, how freeing is that that you found something so beautiful and being able to let your emotions out in such a beautiful way.

[B]

There's been rappers that have gone on in interviews lately that have been locked up with Eric and Lyle. And they said that they move like G's in there. And, like, if it wasn't for them, that they literally would not be who they are today because they were such good examples for them.

[C]

My goodness. Which they are together now. They are.

[B]

And the boys were reunited they did.

[C]

Spend, what, 20 years apart?

[B]

20 something years apart, yeah.

[C]

A little over 20 years. They did spend a part in two separate prisons, but here in the.

[B]

After that letter was found, they split them up, did not tell the boys that they were getting split up.

[C]

BARBARA WALTERS INTERVIEW and after that, took them and separated them in two different vans. And they didn't know why until they showed up at two different prisons.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So sad. But they are reunited and they said that they are so happy to be. Be in one another's lives again.

[B]

I feel like the boys have served their time.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

I feel like they've done a life sentence. 35 years, 38 years. That's a life sentence. You know, and I think that, like, let them prove themselves that they can be upstanding citizens and that they can get out, be free men and change the world.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And change the. Be advocates for sexual abuse.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

You know, show people that, hey, you can get raped, beaten, abused, locked up, get out and still be something.

[C]

They are going to make a difference in this world.

[B]

I think they're icons.

[C]

I do.

[B]

I can get. You guys will probably get mad at me for saying that, but I literally have been in the limelight since 1990 and they've done nothing but progress. They've never regressed. They're not like Wade Wilson. They're not like Wade Wilson out here talking about on the phone to all these, trying to say, scam people out of money. Like, these men actually change their lives.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

That's iconic. What they did was wrong. Absolutely. But they learned from it and they did it because they were self defense, not thinking in their right minds, dude.

[C]

I really feel, I feel like it was self defense.

[B]

I feel like they split, you know, like it's like one of those splits where you've just been abused for so long that you just crack, dude.

[C]

Yeah. Your fight or flight is literally just raging.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I can't wait to see these boys get released. I'm so excited. I'm just putting it in the air. That's why I keep saying it. But how long was that podcast timing?

[C]

Almost two hours.

[B]

Yay. So we just did two hours of Eric and Lyle and there's. And there's so much more that you guys can dig.

[C]

Like, we all, everything we, we've discussed.

[B]

Like I said, we did not even touch the tip of the iceberg with all the testimony and stuff that's online. But if you can really watch those tapes, man, it will change your mind. It will pull at your heartstrings and you know. I'm just happy that we are able to use our platform to bring light to these boys, too. So, like I said, Eric and Lyle, you're always invited on the podcast. You got anything else to say?

[C]

That's all.

[B]

All right, guys, thanks for tuning in, and we will see you guys next week.

[C]

By.