TBT: Tonesa Welch - First Lady of BMF

Summary

Dumb Blonde Podcast

Episode: TBT: Tonesa Welch – First Lady of BMF

Host: Bunnie XO of Dumb Blonde Productions
Guest: Tonesa Welch, First Lady of BMF
Date: December 25, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode is a deep and unvarnished conversation between Bunnie XO and Tonesa Welch – the so-called "First Lady of BMF (Black Mafia Family)." The discussion traces Tonesa’s journey from a middle-class Detroit upbringing to the upper echelons of a notorious criminal enterprise, her experiences with trauma and domestic abuse, prison, loss, and ultimately, redemption and advocacy. Tonesa shares her story in her own words, revealing the reality behind both her life and the legends depicted in popular culture.

Note: The summary begins after the ad break ([02:08]), focusing on the substantial conversation.

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Major Discussion Points and Insights

1. Early Life and Draw to Street Culture

[03:47] – [04:55]

• Tonesa grew up on Detroit’s west side in a stable, middle-class family, with no drugs or violence at home.
• Despite this, she felt a strong attraction to the allure and excitement of street life.
• Quote [04:25] Tonesa: "Sometimes we just have a journey to fulfill and that’s why we came here, you know?"
• She became pregnant at 18 and had her first son at 19, starting as a typical teenager in love.

2. Introduction to “the Life” and First Love

[05:42] – [11:18]

• Her first experience in a flashy Detroit club at 19 felt like a pivotal moment, exposing her to glamorous street culture and changing her worldview.
• There, she met Harold (“H”), a well-known, fashionable figure from Detroit’s east side who pulled her into his world of money, drugs, and excitement.
• Tonesa describes the gifts, attention, and eventual partnership in drug dealing, acknowledging the undertones of grooming ([10:05] Bunnie and Tonesa discuss grooming into the lifestyle).

3. Active Participation and Ascent in Street Business

[13:02] – [15:48]

• Tonesa was not merely an accessory but an active, ambitious partner, pushing H to expand operations to Detroit's wealthier west side.
• Her natural leadership surfaced early.
• Quote [14:09] Tonesa: “I always felt grown. I always felt like I had to take on the responsibilities of everyone else.”

4. Abuse and Breaking the Cycle

[15:51] – [24:49]

• H became increasingly abusive as their fortunes grew. The violence escalated, culminating in an incident where Tonesa, fearing for her life, stabbed him in self-defense.
• Quote [17:18] Tonesa: “I had in my mind, I thought, like, I’m going to kill him tonight. I didn’t think about the consequences, just knew that was going to be the last time.”
• The experience of being in jail, not knowing if she’d committed murder, was a moment of deep reckoning and clarity for her: “Why don’t you just leave?”
• Both Tonesa and Bunnie relate through their own experiences of domestic violence, illuminating how abuse is often intertwined with trauma-bonding and ideas of love and protection.

5. Breaking Away, Independence, and Transition to BMF

[27:01] – [48:33]

• Tonesa discusses her strained parental relationships, especially the absence of her biological father and the resulting trauma-bonding that shaped her choices in men.
• After separating definitively from H (helped by his imprisonment), she enjoyed newfound independence, a rising profile, and ultimately connected with the men who would found BMF: Demetrius “Big Meech” and Terry “Southwest T.”
• Her relationship with Terry started as a friendship and business partnership, growing over time. Tonesa emphasizes that, contrary to the BMF series’ depiction, she was not an older woman preying on a younger man but rather already an established figure who introduced resources and connections.
• Quote [45:06] Tonesa: “He was my friend... I wanted him to be on the level I was... I’m gonna help you become a millionaire.”
• She details the explosive growth of the organization once connected to bigger suppliers, with her playing a central, often under-recognized role.

6. BMF’s Rise, Excess, and Downfall

[49:39] – [57:36]

• The BMF’s infamy grew both for their drug empire and their public glamour (“writing it on their shirts and wearing T-shirts: ‘We are drug dealers’” [51:50]).
• Tonesa saw warning signs early—a lack of discretion, ego, and excess ("You're going to get me indicted!").
• Eventually, her oldest son and family members became involved, despite attempts to protect them.

7. Indictment, Betrayal, and Prison

[64:38] – [69:27]

• Tonesa received 57 months in federal prison; her son, 11 years; nephews, cousins, and Terry, even more (Terry got 30 years, later released).
• She describes prison as an isolating, transformative space—a “stripping down” to nothing, but also an opportunity for reflection and spiritual growth.
• A particularly brutal counselor compounded her suffering; nevertheless, she turned inward, seeking God and ultimately working in the prison chapel.
• Quote [65:55] “It was my time to reflect on how did I get here... Please help me. Why am I here? Please change me.”

8. Reckoning with Loss and Final Releases

[86:21] – [94:14]

• Heartbreakingly, Tonesa shares the loss of her middle son by suicide in 2023. Despite the family’s struggles, she recounts their final conversations and emphasizes the pain and complexity of loss—particularly when it comes unexpectedly and without warning.
• Quote [91:19] Her son: “Mommy, just go be happy. […] We all gonna be all right.”
• She finds comfort in knowing she had meaningful last moments with him and in her son’s wish for her to focus on her own happiness.

9. Redemption, Advocacy, and Owning Her Story

[94:14] – [96:33]

• Tonesa is now a prison reform advocate, working on expungements, helping women, and giving back to her community.
• She’s featured in her own film, "First Lady of BMF: The Tonesa Welch Story" on BET+ and is writing a book.
• Tonesa discusses how her work, rather than the glamorization of street tales, is about second chances, self-reinvention, survival, and helping others—especially women who may have walked similar paths.
• Quote [97:43] Tonesa: “It’s a cautionary story, and it’s also meant to be inspiring… hey, don’t think it’s glamorous… I was one of those chosen to say, hey, this don’t happen often.”

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Notable and Memorable Moments

• Describing transformation at the Rooster Tail club:
  [06:05] “You went in as one person, but once the night ended, you came out as a different person.”
• On being groomed for street life:
  [10:05] “You think of grooming as a pimp grooming his… but maybe grooming for the lifestyle, yeah… I still had an innocence about me.”
• On finally fighting back against abuse:
  [17:18] “I had already put the knife under my pillow and I just waited… I really wanted to kill him. I was fed up.”
• Cycle of trauma and redemption:
  [63:56] H’s apology: “He said, I loved you so much… I grew up in it. My father did it to my mother, and I thought I was okay. Then it was the cycle that I did to you. And after I got that apology, it was just like, okay… it gave me the freedom to speak about it.”
• On advocacy:
  [93:12] “Just doing some amazing things, helping women, helping people… uplifting people, showing… giving them hope… you have to give up, you can just never know what can happen in your life.”
• On the myth v. reality of the BMF TV portrayal:
  [41:00] “Why couldn’t you, you know… if you didn’t want me involved in your story, I get that—don’t do me like that. Give me some type of respect. Because no matter what, when I tell my story and I talk about them, I give them respect… I wasn’t chasing this kid... I was already ‘the kid.'"

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Important Timestamps

• [03:47] – Tonesa’s Detroit upbringing
• [06:05] – First transformative club experience (“revolving door” night)
• [10:05] – The concept of grooming for street life
• [14:09] – Her natural leadership and desire to “run things”
• [15:51] – Discussion of Harold’s abuse and toxic cycle
• [17:18] – The night she fought back and stabbed H
• [27:01] – Insight on her relationship with her fathers and trauma-bonding
• [34:21] – Expansion into wider criminal partnerships (meeting Terry and Meech)
• [45:06] – Tonesa helping Terry “become a millionaire”
• [51:50] – BMF’s over-the-top public persona and Tonesa’s warnings
• [64:38] – The indictments, sentences for the family
• [65:55] – The harshness and spiritual “stripping” of prison
• [86:21] – The heartbreaking loss of her son
• [93:12] – Her current advocacy and next steps

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Conclusion

This is an episode about survival against the odds and the slow, painful process of self-discovery and transformation. Tonesa’s story, as recounted here, challenges the glamorized depictions of the BMF legacy. Instead, she offers hard-earned wisdom on love, violence, accountability, loss, and the hope for second acts—and openly grieves the tragedies that can’t be redeemed.

She ends by reinforcing her new mission: lifting up other women, making amends through advocacy, and telling her own truth on her terms—no longer as an accessory to someone else’s notoriety, but as the First Lady of her own life.

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Where to Find Tonesa Welch

• Website: silentheart.org
• Social: @FirstLadyTonesa (Instagram, Facebook, Twitter)
• Film: First Lady of BMF: The Tonesa Welch Story (BET+)
• Book: Forthcoming (2026)

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Final Words (Tonesa) [97:43]:
“This is a story that people need to watch. It’s a cautionary story, and it’s also meant to be inspiring. [...] Don’t think it’s glamorous… I was one of those chosen to say, hey, this don’t happen often.”

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[B]

Bonnie, who used to be a former sex worker and now hosts the podcast Dumb Blonde.

[A]

Most little girls grow up wanting to be doctors and lawyers and and I was like, I want to be super hot, make a lot of money and be a rock star's wife. That was my goal as a child. And here we are. What's up, you sexy motherfuckers. Today. I am really excited about this podcast, especially because we're doing it during Mob Wife March. But this is something a little different. Someone who has a different story. But it's so amazing and it's so cool, and I just really admire this woman. She's a motivational speaker, producer and director, Survivor Mother Boss, and the First lady of BMF, Ms. Honisa Welch.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Did I do okay?

[B]

You did okay. Thank you.

[A]

I'm so happy, Happy to have you here.

[B]

Thank you. Thanks for. I'm honored. Thanks for having me. Thanks for asking me to be here. You're beautiful.

[A]

Oh, so are you. You walked in, I was like, she is so cute. She's so, like this tiny little package. Like, you are just so cute.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

So, okay, so for people who don't know who you are, you are the first lady of bmf. And I don't know if anybody that listens to my podcast is a BMF fan. I'm sure they are. I know my husband is. Shelly is a BMF fan. Like, he has made me watch every season and all that. Stu. But besides that show, there's a real story behind that TV show, and it's your story and it's your story to tell, and that's why I want you on the podcast.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

So we're gonna start from, like the very beginning. Detroit, baby. Right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So where did you grow up?

[B]

I grew up in Detroit, Michigan, on the west side of Detroit. You know, middle class family. Grew up with my three brothers, my mom and my stepdad. Normal middle class family. Hey, yeah. Think nothing ever. Just, hey. Living that normal, innocent life, you know? Yes. Yeah.

[A]

Never any drugs, sex and rock and roll. It was just like that.

[B]

Yeah. Come from a household. My mom was adopted, but still the sweetest mother ever. Once she got her children, no drugs in the house, no violence. None of that I seen, you know, everything seemed pretty normal. What happened to me, I don't know.

[A]

You know, I completely understand it because I very attracted to the street life too. I ran away from home at 14 and started supporting myself. So your story really resonated with me because, you know, we both kind of came from similar backgrounds. And then just to go out and live completely opposite of how we were raised is wild. But sometimes we just have a journey to fulfill and that's why we came here, you know? So moving on from that, you know, your. I think you got pregnant around 18. Can you take me on that journey?

[B]

Pregnant, 18. I had my first son in 19, and that was from my high school. Well, my high school sweetheart. Well, he's always out of school, but we started dating when I was 15 years old. He was in his last year of high school, and then he was my boyfriend from then on. College kid, smart. Never got into trouble, anything, you know, just. Hey. I just knew I was attracted to this older boy, and he got out of school, and he would still come pick me up after school, but dated him all through high school. A.

[A]

And then you guys ended up having a baby together.

[B]

He went on to college, followed him for a minute. Be like. And then. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And then she was like, no, I'm going to do my. Do my thug. Du.

[B]

My thug. Yeah.

[A]

And then. What is your oldest son's name? I forget. Marlon Marlin.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then. So take me on this journey of. When you were 19, you went to. What was the name of the club? The Rooster Town, The Rooster Tail, which was, like, a popular venue.

[B]

It was a popular venue in Detroit, but it was popular for more. The people on the east side of Detroit. I don't know if you have any viewers. That's from Detroit. No east side versus the west side, but it was east side club. And I was 19 years old, had never been to a club like that. I don't think I ever went to a club. That's probably my first time going to a club. Yes. And I went in there. It was like. I went. And I always say, like, a revolving door. You know, how you go through a revolving door. I felt like my whole. When I reflect on my life, I think about, wow, you went in as one person, but once you. The night ended, you came out as a different person. The way I seen things.

[A]

And why do you think that was? Was it just like the glitz and the glamours?

[B]

It was the glitz and the glamorous. It was beautiful. You know, in my eyes, it was beautiful. Might not be right, but to me, right, it was beautiful. The people looked amazing. You know, I was this girl from, like I said, the west side of Detroit. Grew up, went to high school, dated one guy all the way through high school. It was a different world to me when I seen. I'm like, whoa, I want to be a part of this. Right? You know, I don't belong over here. I want to be a part of this. Everybody looked amazing, from the jewels to the hair to the clothes. And I always call myself, like, a fashionable person when I was, like, going up through school and stuff like that. So. But seeing that Fashion there, you know, in Detroit, we feel like we're very fashionable, but seeing that fashion, I wanted to be a part of that, you know. Just turned me right out. Right, right. This is where I need to be.

[A]

Mama got little Mama got turned out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So after going to that club, how long after that did you meet Harold?

[B]

I met him and he was at the club.

[A]

In the club that night.

[B]

Yeah. He was from the east side. And Harold is. They call him H in Detroit. They call him H. And he was known to be, like, very fashionable, you know. So just looking at him also, he was like. He was young, and most of the people there were a little older than him, but he was older than me, but they were older than him. And that was his crowd, his group of people that he hung out with. And so he kind of stood out to me because of what he had on. But, you know, then he. He caught my eye. We caught each other's eyes. But I was still young and very impressionable. And I was like, wow, okay. Yeah, yeah. Just seeing him, you know, like everything had on, from the jewels, from the clothes, you know, just something different than I was used to.

[A]

Did he pursue you immediately?

[B]

Oh, my God, yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's like something that I never had seen before. He didn't give up. Yeah.

[A]

And whenever he. And in the. In the movie that you have, you the lady of BMF on bet. Plus, you guys can watch it anytime it shows. Like Carol going to your dad's house and to your parents house to pick you up. And your dad just does not like him. Stepdad, correct. Yeah. Your stepdad just did not like him. And could he tell that he was not good for you?

[B]

He could tell right away. But, you know, we don't want to listen to our parents ever. I didn't.

[A]

Yeah, they don't know anything.

[B]

Like, you don't know anything. You don't know, you know. So, yeah, right away it was kind of like, can you take me on.

[A]

This relationship with H, on this journey?

[B]

At first it was very, you know, very exciting. He took me out a lot. He treated me very nice. He bought me things right away. You know, you didn't have to wait. You know, I had to wait on my little check or my mom to buy me things. You know how when you're in high school, your mom shops for you? We were very close and we would go shopping every weekend. But with him, it was like he wanted me immediately to play the part, you know, look the part. Right. So immediately he started buying me things, you Know, do you think it was.

[A]

Kind of like a form of grooming you?

[B]

I don't. I don't know. You know, when you think of grooming, thinking like a pimp grooming his.

[A]

Right. No, I mean like grooming you for the lifestyle.

[B]

Yeah, basically. I think so. Yeah. He could have been, you know, I don't think if maybe thought in his head, but I think I really know that when he first, he was very attracted to me and he just wanted, you know, it was always a guy from the east side probably wanted a girl from the west side. And I was different from probably the girls that he usually had been dating. I still had an innocence about me, even though I had a child, you know, I still felt like I had that. And getting with him, he knew that and he. Like you said, maybe. So what probably was a grooming, you know.

[A]

Yeah. So he's buying you all these gifts. You guys officially are together. What happens after you guys get together?

[B]

Oh, we just. I felt like it was just a whirlwind romance and we, you know, I'm excited about his lifestyle. I'm excited about the people that he's hanging with. I'm doing that now. I had started like, the shopping, the cars, you know, the trips and things like that. And then after that, I wanted to be. Become a part of his world. Whatever he was doing, I wanted to be a part of that.

[A]

When you talk about his lifestyle, what do you mean?

[B]

He was into selling drugs, you know.

[A]

So what was he selling? Heroin.

[B]

Heroin at first, and then it. It came cocaine then next. Yeah.

[A]

Isn't it wild to think back? Because I too dated, you know, drug dealers back in the day. And you're around all of these drugs at such a young age. You're touching them, you're literally inhaling the fumes, packaging them, and it's like, are so we have like, not a care in the world at that age. I won't even be in the same room as drugs now.

[B]

Now don't want to be around the same type of people. But then it was the excitement.

[A]

It was like the naiveness, I guess the very not.

[B]

Yeah, because I think of the laws now. I. When I, you know, I do a lot about into prison reform, understanding the laws and things, and I'll be like, God, I could have been one of those people that got caught up and still would have been in prison. Because it is people that I know that we're fighting for now, that been in prison for 30 years that has done less than me, you know, so when I think back about it. I'm around all these drugs immediately having no fear. It was because you don't understand. You're very naive. You're ignorant to what could happen to you. Are you thinking about was the excitement? I was very excited about it all. It made me feel just as powerful that, you know, as he did. Like, I looked at him as, you know, he moved rooms, and I wanted to move rooms, too. I wanted people to, hey, look at me. Look at me, too. You know, just boss. Boss mentality. Right. You know, and that's what came with it. It came with the boss mentality, the status, you know, in a city like Detroit. And I wanted to be a part of that. And it just. I had no fear, like you said. No fear.

[A]

Yeah, no fear. So when did. Did you start moving drugs for him?

[B]

You know, my. I don't. People like. For him. Like, we were. I think we were more so partnership.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, wasn't for him. Like, he would send me out, and then I would go, do, you know, like, hey, you go take this run. You take this bag. You do this. I wanted to be his partner. Yeah. No matter what he wanted me to do, you know? No, you stay here. You do this. No, I want to be right there with you. I can do this, too. I always thought that, you know, I was talking to my brother not too long ago, and he said, I don't know what it was. And he was. He's older than me. And he said, I don't know what it was. Even when you were a little girl, you always had that kind of, like, street mentality. I just didn't realize it, you know, probably even when I was playing, you know, in school or playing with my young. My people in my neighborhood. Like, even when I was in high school, I didn't really want to hang with the high school people. I wanted to be. Because I had the older boyfriend. I wanted to be with the older crowd. You know, the. That's where my head was. Like, oh, y' all too young for me. I want to do this, you know, so.

[A]

I'm grown.

[B]

I'm grown. I always felt grown. I always felt like I had to take on the responsibilities of everyone else, you know, Even though I had the three brothers, they were older. I always thought I was the big mama of the house, even from my mom and dad. Now, this is how this gonna go, right? Running the household. So I wanted. Took that out into the street.

[A]

So you guys were moving weight for the east side. And then you guys, you convinced him to start expanding it to the west side. Can you take.

[B]

And don't tell him. I don't know why I said that. I just. Why are we stuck over here on the east side when there's a lot more players on the west side? Yeah. And he thought about it, because he didn't. You know, east side people at that time, they didn't. You know, they didn't. We didn't coexist with one another. You know, the east side on the east side and the west side staying like west side. But I felt like. Like, I'm your connection now to the east side. I was popular because of myself and my brothers. Even though they wasn't in the street, they were just, you know, my one brother always gave the parties, and my other brother was just the handsome, had all the girls. And so we were kind of popular. So I knew that if you came over there, I could find the people for you, and I knew that they would spend the money. And to me, back then, we were the wealthiest side of Michigan, of Detroit, even though it might not been, because you do have some amazing east side, beautiful pockets and beautiful homes. But it always seemed like to me, the west side was the more people that had the money, you know, and so I said, let's go. She's like, let's go over here.

[A]

Let's expand, baby.

[B]

Come over here, baby.

[A]

So everything wasn't always flowers and butterflies, though. H also became very abusive. Can you take me on that journey?

[B]

You know, I really can't remember, like, you know, was later on, the more power, the more drugs, the more money, then the more violence, you know, and just started happening, you know, and you. When you look back, you'd be like, wow, this is. You know, you thought it was one time, and then you look up. It's, you know, repeatedly. Has happened more and more often. You know, you think it's like, okay, maybe he was high or maybe he was frustrated or maybe something was going on. But later on in life, I realized that, you know, this is how he grew up. And now he's. He's a grown man taking out what happened to him on me, you know, it was a cycle, and I was. You know, you stay thinking, I'm trying to fix this person, or you think because they make you feel like, I love you. Don't nobody else love you. I take care of you. You know, I felt like I can't go anywhere if I left that he probably would kill me or do something, you know, because it got to that point, it got very Violent, you know what happens next?

[A]

He comes home, he puts his hand on hands on you one, one more time. And what happens in that scenario?

[B]

You know, it got to the point, I'm like, why am I doing this? Because I was. I always knew I was a strong person. And I don't know what it was about him that in the beginning I allowed it or why was I, you know, fearing him. And I thought about. I'm like, okay, that's enough. You know, you have these sons around here. They're watching this. You have to protect yourself. You know, I'm out here protecting everybody else, watching his back. You got to protect yourself. So I really waited. I knew he was going to come home this one time. And I said, okay, I'm preparing myself. You know, I had in my mind, I thought, like, I'm going to kill him tonight. I didn't think about the consequences of it. I just knew that he was going to come home and that was going to be the last time he put his hands on me. And so it happened exactly like I thought he was going to come home. He was going, you know, be violent, jump on me. And I had already put the knife under my pillow and I just waited. I pretended I would sleep and I waited. And that's when I stabbed him. I really. I really wanted to. Like I said, I really wanted to kill him. I was fed up, you know, I'm glad I didn't because even when they arrested me and I went to the county jail and that's back then, that was when the person had to press charges on you for the. For it to stick.

[A]

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[B]

No min balance required.

[A]

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[B]

But I realized when I was in a county jail and the officers were saying, you better. You better hope not. I'm sorry, but they were saying, you better hope you didn't kill him. You better hope you didn't kill him. And as I'm laying in bunk, I thought about it. Why don't you just leave? You why don't you just leave? What if he is dead? Because I didn't know what happened. I knew the police came, they took him away. But you don't hear anything else, right? And I said, what if he dies? I won't get to see my kids anymore, you know, so that kind of. That really scared me. That really had affected me for a while, you know.

[A]

So that you got pushed to that point.

[B]

Yeah. Why? You know, why did I let myself alone? Don't touch me, right?

[A]

You know, during this time, you and H actually had a child together too.

[B]

Also.

[A]

So you had two babies at this time?

[B]

Yeah, we had three. I have two. Yeah, we had three. And I'm sitting there like, why, why am I allowing this? And then why did you get to the point where you have to kill a person before you decide to leave? Right? You know, like I was. I had plotted it out like, oh, he's gonna die tonight. I think I told my friends, oh, he's gonna die tonight. And I didn't have the kind of friends who say, oh, girl, don't do that. You just need to leave.

[A]

Yeah, you gotta love our girls.

[B]

Yeah, you need me to help. You need me. I mean, it was so many things that happened in our lives. He would blow up my car, I would go blow up his car. It was just getting to the point of craziness. Just tit for tat, Tiff or tat. And I had friends type of friends that wouldn't say, at that point in time, just leave. Right? You don't have to take this. You. You out here, you selling more than he can sell. You doing your own thing.

[A]

You.

[B]

Matter of fact, you're doing more. And that could be hap. That could have been happening too. You know, you had these men to get very insecure and jealous of your power. Also. He didn't have no more control over me, you know, and which Once a man start thinking they're losing control, what do they do? You know, they do things like that. And I think all of that played a part. I was becoming more popular on the west side. People were. I was getting a lot of attention. I wasn't looking like this 19 year old girl anymore. I'm looking like this pretty fabulous stylist, grown woman. I'm wearing, you know, these clothes, these jewels. I'm looking. I'm having the power too. And I think we. That started a lot of it. Even though he grew up into it, that was the way that he could control me. By beating on me.

[A]

Men are something else, let me tell you.

[B]

They build you up to tear you, tear you down. Yeah, it's wild.

[A]

It's a cycle. I. I was in an abusive relationship myself. And I got to the point that you did, where I was just like, like, I Told him I bought a gun. And I was like, if you put your hands on me one more time, I'm gonna blow your brains out. And, like, you really mean it?

[B]

You really mean in your heart.

[A]

Get to that point where you're just like, I don't care what the consequences are, you're not gonna hurt me anymore.

[B]

Right? Like I said, it wasn't until I was laying in that cell in that county jail thinking about it, like, wow, if you go to prison, you're gonna go to prison for the rest of your life. Because back then we didn't have the laws that, you know, we have in place, place for women now. You know, we're become where we're victims. You know, so many women were getting locked up, they didn't know anything about, you know, self defense or anything like that. They think, oh, you should have left. You stayed there. They think of it as you premeditated it, you know, but sometimes it, it happens in the instinct, you know, you're just like, oh, yes, I'm gonna kill them.

[A]

Crime of passion.

[B]

Crime of passion. Yeah. Like, I got. This is the only way I can get out. Yeah. You know, I work in domestic violence with a lot of women, and they feel like there's no way out. And I've been there. I was younger and I thought it was no way out. How can I get out of this? He's always gonna find me. If you watch in the movie, they didn't show a lot of it. He will always, always come find me no matter if I leave. He would always come find me no matter where I was at. And it was like that all the time, you know, just moving, moving, moving. Then here he come. Here he come. Then I'm back in it. I'm back in that cycle. Because then you get addicted to the toxicity, I guess, or the fighting, or.

[A]

You feel like, you know, it's the oxytocin.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whenever you guys do get, it becomes like a drug.

[B]

It does. And you think in your head, this person really loves me.

[A]

Yeah. Even though possessive, so jealous. That's love.

[B]

You. We think it's love. And it's not love. It's control.

[A]

No, that's all it is. It's really control. And it's their egos.

[B]

There you go. Yeah.

[A]

You're. You're literally just. Just stroking their ego by staying in that relationship. Yeah, absolutely. So even though you got out of jail and he got out of the hospital, you guys still stayed together?

[B]

Yeah. And the movie looks like we. We got right back together. But it was a minute, you know, that. Let's just say they just wear you down. Wear you down. These kids. I love my kids. And he's crying, and you feel like, I gotta save the. This person. Do you know, like, I felt. You feel in the back of your head that he has nobody but you. Right. I understood, you know, by him talking to me all the time, how he grew up. I didn't grow up like that. So I'm like, somebody gotta love this little man. You know, me, I'm thinking, I'm saving him. But it really. It was like. I always say it was like it was somewhere and as a little young girl, that I was damaged somewhere. You know, I was dealing with a lot of issues that I didn't understand that, you know, that I felt like I needed to stay there. You know, I didn't never, like I said, never seen my parents do this. So what made me feel like I had to save this person?

[A]

Were you ever close with your father?

[B]

Your real father, not my biological father. And, you know, as we grow older, we do find that all. It's probably the wanting, not the love.

[A]

Trauma bond.

[B]

Yeah. Trauma bonding. Not. Not thinking like I knew my stepdad was. I thought he was just the meanest person ever to me. But I think as I grew older and understood, he was always trying to protect me, always. And I thought, I. I don't want to be protected. I don't want to do this. You know, I was always fighting it.

[A]

But you stayed with H because he protected you.

[B]

Yeah. Isn't that wild? Yeah.

[A]

It's like, we don't want it from the parents, but we want it from.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I wasn't. I didn't have the relationship with my biological dad until I was much older. Actually, they show it in the movie, and it was probably at that point, you know, I was much older, and my mom, like, you know, maybe this is the missing part. Right. Maybe this is what you need, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To help fill that void. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. It's always cathartic to bring the parents back. Even, you know, if you've never had a relationship with them and even if you don't even like who they are as humans, at least you get that sort of closure. Closure of like, okay, this is why.

[B]

Yeah, because it was a question. Why. Why didn't you come see me? Why didn't you love me? And he was like. He thought it was best once my mom married my stepdad because they got together when I was a baby and he thought it was Best. But I'm thinking like, no, you thought it was best for you or him, but it wasn't better best for me, right? You know, and after that, after I understood it, we talked about it then, you know, as I grew, you know, until he left the surf, we grew closer. So I had two amazing dads that even once I would. They, you know, we all got together, they became good friends, you know what I mean? It was like when I, even when I, when I went to prison, my biological dad didn't understand the whole life lifestyle. And so we didn't tell him I was going to prison. But he got very ill when I was in prison. And my stepdad was the one that made way shorter. He went and checked on him all the time to let me know what was going on. So when I would call home, you know, the. If I don't know if anybody know about the prison phones, they say this whole recording, right? So I had my nephew on the other side with my biological dad. My dad, he's got the phone and they're like, okay, once the recording said this call is from, made a such and such, they would have my biological dad, the phone, who was very ill at this time to let me say what I had to say. Until the day he died, he still didn't know I was in prison. Oh my gosh. He didn't even realize that he went into the dementia and then he passed away before I came home.

[A]

That had to been as heartbreaking as it is.

[B]

It was very heartbreaking. I wasn't able to go home. So he. His burial, you know, that was heartbreaking. That was another breaking point for me as realizing, like you put yourself here, you didn't get to see, you know, him pass away. Those are the moments that when you're in prison, yet you realize, hey, you gotta do something about this. Yeah. And I had a prison counselor and I have to tell this story. It was, I went, I was, I was called out custody. So at the end of my prison term, I could go out and work in the, you know, in the city, the round surrounding city. So it's called out custody. So when they told me that my father had passed, the chaplain, they came and told my father had passed. And he told me I was able, you know, I, I could go home to the funeral, but I had to go make the arrangements with my counselor. I had a hard time with my counselor. So when I went to tell, I said, hey, I know you heard that my dad died. I want to go home to the funeral. Go to the funeral. She said, can I curse? I can curse.

[A]

Oh, yeah, no.

[B]

We cuss up a storm here, you bitch. Your family, your dad, your mama and your kids. You shouldn't have came to prison. Now get the out my office.

[A]

And this woman is a counselor.

[B]

A counselor in the prison. When I first went to this prison, I went to two different prisons. That angers me. Yeah. And you think, okay, I'm here to be rehabilitated. But she gave me such a hard time. When I first went on the prison grounds, I was walking a yard, it's called the yard, you know, trying to just figure out, like, what's going on in my world here. And one of the guards came up to me, said, you're new here, right? And I said, yeah. He said, you're gonna have a hard time. You know, I didn't have a fear of the women. That wasn't, you know, I had been in the streets forever, so I'm not scared of the women. I've been in more danger than this. I can handle this. And he said, no, you gonna. He said, who's your counselor? I told him, I said, her name is Ms. Stockings. I reached out to her since I've been home and just to ask her why. And he said, she's gonna give you a hard time. You're a nice looking woman and she's gonna give you a hard time. And when I tell you the last part of my bit was the hardest time of my life, by her saying that that was almost coming home. But I had to deal with her for like 18 months straight. Taking my visits, taking my commissary, taking my phone calls. It was just madness all the time.

[A]

Did she do it out of love or was she just an evil.

[B]

Oh, she was just an evil human being.

[A]

It's so hard for me to wrap my head around somebody being that evil to a human.

[B]

It was the heart. And I used to pray all the time. I met an older lady, had, did. And by the time we met, she had already been down like 20 something years. And she would always tell me, she said, don't let her see you cry. Don't let her see you break. I'm like, I'm not going to cry. That's what I'm not going to do. But she's like, whatever you do. And so every time something would happen, she was like, let's go in the yard. And she would walk and pray with me, like, you're going to get through this. You're going to get through this. But every day can you imagine? Like, oh, I'm not gonna make it through this. I'm not gonna make it through this. I don't made it through the battles.

[A]

Of the street, right?

[B]

But here I come here and I gotta feeling you gotta fight your way through it every day, you know, not even a good night's sleep because you don't know when you're gonna become. She's gonna come wake you up out of your sleep or you have. I have sons who. She took away my phone privilege. I can't even call home to see how they're doing. And that was all through that. It was just my breaking point. Like, you know what? You. I'll never ever, ever put myself in this predicament again in life.

[A]

So, yeah, let's circle back to. To talk about what actually put you in prison. We're going to paint. I want to paint a picture because you have such an amazing story and just the redemption and what you've done after you've gotten out of prison too, is you just beautiful. And I want everybody to just know every facet of what you've had to go through to get to where you are today. So you and H got back together and you guys expanded your business, right, and into Texas.

[B]

Went to Texas and was Chicago first, then Texas. Yeah. And then he got caught up, right? And when he got caught up, it was me left to hear fem for myself. You know, it was decide if you want to. What do you want to do if you want to stay, you know, you want to go to work or you want to continue on doing what you were doing. By this time, I'm addicted to the lifestyle, I'm addicted to the money and all of it that, you know, the, like you say, the power of it. The people looking at me and as you know, they have to come. You know, everybody has to come to me and get things and ask me for things and do this. So I'm like, I want to do this. So you go on and handle that. It's like, no, I want you. I'm like, I got this. I got this.

[A]

So he goes to sit down for seven. Seven years.

[B]

Seven years this time.

[A]

And before that, he had brought in two people to help you guys with your business.

[B]

And who were those two people? Those people were Southwest T and Demetrius Miller, you know, Mass, the leaders of the bmf. And as for your listeners that don't know, you can go back and relate to the music like with Rick Ross. I wish I was Big Meech. Big Meech. Larry Hooray. Blowing money fast. All the rap music that's surrounded around the two brothers. So, yeah, he brought them around, and because the business was expanding, and it was like, okay, we can't do this all alone. And then we already had some people, but you still have to bring in more people as the business is expanding. And so he told me, say, hey, I'm. I got the. I met these two young guys. You know, I'm gonna bring them around. You see what you think. I said, okay. So we set up a meeting point. Point. And that's when I first met them.

[A]

And Terry says that it was love at first sight. How did you feel whenever you first saw Terry?

[B]

I. I just thought they were young kids, you know, I'm nine years older than him, and when I looked at him, I was just like, okay, group of young kids he's bringing in to work, you know, not. Not, like they're juvenile, but they were. I think Terry's like, 18, 19, something like that. And I didn't think nothing of it. I just like, oh, okay, you know, introduction look for a minute, you know, say, all right. And I just didn't think nothing of it. And they continued to work around us. And Terry was around us a lot more than Demetrius was. The big Meech was. And so that's why when me and him. Terry. I mean, I'm sorry. H used to always half Terry, like, watch her back, do this. And so we became, like, he was my confidant. He was the person that if I'm always, you know, you always got a complaint. You're always talking about something you're always complaining about. I'm always complaining about H. So he was there, the person that was there to listen.

[A]

And you guys developed a friendship.

[B]

We developed a friendship. A closer friendship than H knew about. So.

[A]

Right. So H goes away for seven years, but he doesn't leave you with much money?

[B]

Well, I don't know. Not that I don't want people to say. H is a type of person. He has a lot of money, but he. He's not gonna leave you enough that you could just splash. Yeah, you know, I was good in a way. I still just wanted my own, you know, I wanted my own. I wanted to be independent because I knew once he had a chance to be free, just. That's what I was gonna say, just to be free. Because I knew, like, it took him about a year or so before he was sentenced and he had to go away. I knew once he went away that this was gonna be the end of Us. And it helped me break away from him. It was much easier. I had already knew that when he come home from prison, that I was gonna be on my own away from him. I didn't know I was gonna develop this romantic relationship with Terri, but I knew I wasn't gonna be back with my ex husband, Jose.

[A]

And you just wanted to do your own thing.

[B]

I just wanted to do my own. I just wanted to be independent. I just felt like I could. I felt like he was holding me back.

[A]

Right. And women also, before a relationship ends, you've already in your mind.

[B]

I've already in my mind.

[A]

But because it's a toxic relationship, an abusive relationship, he's not letting you go while he's out on the streets.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's how I had to get rid of. I don't want to say get rid of, but that's how I actually was able to break it off with my abusive ex was he went to prison. And it was like, I remember the day he went to prison. I was really upset, but at the same time, I was like, girl, thank God you're free. I'm not. I don't have to worry about. You don't have fighting and fighting and, you know, just all the bullshit.

[B]

It's weird that you said you'd be upset, like, oh, my God, he's gone. In prison, I feel bad. I'm like, you know, you soaking at a minute. They're like, what is going on with you? You're afraid. Do your thing.

[A]

It's like your wings spread out immediately.

[B]

Yeah. And you real. Who you are, you know, you. He was kind of holding me back.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So, yeah.

[A]

So take me on this journey. You are single, ready to mingle.

[B]

Technically, mingling, honey. Yeah. Just out there like a free bird, like air. I was hanging, you know, just everywhere. I was traveling. I was just all, you know, at the clubs, I was, you know, me and my girls, we were just mobbing out, as they call it. We thought we were the baddest. Couldn't tell us.

[A]

Invincible.

[B]

Yes. And that's how we felt. And I would like you, so you feel free. You don't have nobody to answer to anymore. You know, I'm the boss now. I can do what I want to do. And Terry was always kind of somewhere in the back, you know, Somewhere in the back, you know, kind of watching or, you know, or mingling with us, if you want to say. But it was never a thought of me being romantic with them. Like I say, it was younger. Right. And then as time went on that happened later on in life. Now how they have it in the BMF stars movie. You know, I was very upset about that because why would, you know, you put me in a movie like he's a kid, like he's in high school. I'm chasing behind this high school kid because I had already developed myself as a boss. I was dating a boss. Why would I chase a high school? You know, I guess women do it, but not I, not me, right? Having me having sex in. At my job or, you know, around my children with this kid who's still carrying around his school books.

[A]

Right? You just feel like you deserved more respect.

[B]

Just more respect. Why didn't. Why couldn't you, you know. You know, if you didn't want me involved in your story, I get that. Okay, I understand. But don't do me like that. Give me some type of respect. Because no matter what, when I tell my story and I talk about them, I give them respect. I can only tell the story how it happened, you know, wouldn't be truthful if I didn't tell you how I met them. Right. I'm sorry that you met me under my ex husband. That's how I met you. I can't, you know, tell it the story any different, you know, then it wouldn't be truthful. It wouldn't be my story. Wouldn't be the way I seen it. I lived through it. So the way I lived through it, that's how I met you guys. I wasn't a person that was chasing this kid. And like I always. What I said now is I was already kid. The kid. Like, you know how your beautiful truck outside, you know, when you pull it up, it's already you. It's already fancy. I felt like when they met me, I was already that person. Right. So you didn't have to Terry or Meech didn't have to develop who I already was. I was already, you know, industries, doing my thing. When I came around, I was already with the jewels, the furs, the cars, the home. So when I tell the story, like tell it the way it is, don't make me or my ex husband, which is my children's father, I'm sorry, look bad because he never speaks on them. They put him in the movie and made him look so bad. They put me in the movie. And I felt.

[A]

When she says movie, just when she says movie, she's talking about the BMF show, actually, not her movie.

[B]

Not my movie. Yes. Yeah. Not my movie.

[A]

So I just want to clarify.

[B]

Yeah. Because they're.

[A]

There's lady of BMF movie that you can watch on BET Plus. And then there's bmf, which is their series, which. We'll get into that in a little bit and talk about that.

[B]

Yeah, but that's how it happened. So in. In one day, you know, he signed her. Me, and. I don't know, whatever I was going through, maybe. Go ahead.

[A]

So you. You actually got your own plug.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And started doing Big Mama.

[B]

Big Mama. Right. Little Mama, Little Mama and Little Body. But Right, right.

[A]

Like Pinky in the Brain.

[B]

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So like the wizard of Oz, you know, behind the curtain. But it's like you just have no fear when you're that age and it's none.

[B]

And I think back sometimes, I had so much drugs or I was around so much drugs, and I think, like, when I reflect back, like, girl, you could have never came home. I would never been sitting on this couch. Yeah. You know, if I had got caught in with the things I had.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and why did. Like you said, no fear. The people we surrounded ourselves with, I wanted to be. They look. No, they don't look dangerous enough. I need to go in here. You know, I wanted to be with the risk takers. You know, every time you got away with something, you felt even better. If the rush, like a drug rush or something, like, whoa, okay. Yeah, we can do that again all the time. While you're doing it, your heart's about out here. Okay. Absolutely did that. You know, then there goes your ego, Bigger and bigger. Now I'm feeling more powerful than a man her age. I can do this. I can do this on my own. I don't need nobody. And that's how I start feeling.

[A]

And so during this time is when you and Terry hook up and you actually helped put them on. Can we take me on that journey?

[B]

It was like, you know, they, like, they. It was like, why? You know, I had all this money. I had been with this man who has all this money, and even when he went to prison, he still had money. And I couldn't understand y', all, you know, like, Tear, you've been in this life for a long time. By this time, I'm known you about five, about seven years. Where's the stability? You know, what's going on? You were up, down, up, down. He never had. They never had, like, a abundance of drugs. They never had a great plug. That's what I would call, like, There's.

[A]

A reason for that.

[B]

Yeah. They didn't have that Plug.

[A]

You watch the movie.

[B]

And so I looked at him, he was there. And I was like, God, you know, this was all the time. And I was talking to him. He's like, I don't know. I just can't get it, you know, together. And I'm sitting here trying to always groom this person. I didn't realize that I'm grooming him. And one day, you wanted to make him a boss. I wanted to make. He was my friend. You're with me. I had this special love for him, you know, not the romantic love yet. And I wanted him, you know. I felt like, this is my friend, this is my dog. We always riding together, we hanging. I wanted him to be on the level I was, you know. And so I said, I gotta help you. Like, tell me what it is, you know. So I said, I'm gonna help you. I'm gonna help you get it. And then once you get it, you better keep it, you know, I did tell him. I said, I. And. And I forgot I had said this. And it just. I don't know why I said it, you know, I felt like a millionaire. I feel like, you know, they just. A millionaire. So I'm Help you be a millionaire. And I said, I want you to change. Don't change for the money. Stay as, you know, stay as you are, but I'm gonna help you become a millionaire. And that's what happened. You know, I gave him a plug. You work it. You do this, you know, kind of like was. You know, he was really listening and it was working. And then it just took off. And one day it just took off, and he was like, you could sit back. Now I'm like, me. Because I was tired. Yeah, you can. Like, I'm tired. I'm where I'm. You know, sometimes you be. Because you always think, like, that day might come, you know, I had been around. I'm watching so many other people go down, and I'm always, you know, just there, you know, getting by, getting by, you know. And I'm like, okay, you gotta quit this one day. You gotta get, get. You know, my boys are getting older. You gotta quit this. And when he said it was, like, a sign of relief. He can take over now. Like. And then you obviously trusted him. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like you thought he was capable of being able to.

[B]

I knew he was. I knew Terror was very smart, you know, and I knew he was capable of it. But I think he had so much, so many other responsibilities. Like in the movie, they make it seem like Meech was The most powerful one. But actually it was terry. And Terry was actually carrying on that burden for him and me. So I think that was, you know, when you don't have enough drugs, it's kind of hard to be sharing with somebody. You know, I'm gonna make this money, and I gotta share, you know, this little bit with you. And I think that was the thing that they could never get it going, you know? And so once he started getting the supply, the bigger supply, he. He brought me chin. Now we can really work. We can keep moving. We can push better. And then from there, once you start meeting one connect, it's kind of like click, as, you know, everybody knows. You know, like you said, everything is a click to me. From the police to attorneys, drug dealers, pimps, everybody. And everybody kind of whisper and knows. So once you're selling so much weight, that goes to the next connect. They hear about you. A word on the street. I hear you take it to the next city. Your name is already ringing. His name started ringing in that circle, and then they took it on to the next level. To the next level. To the next level.

[A]

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[B]

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[B]

You know, it was on and off. But I believe that when, you know, and I'm not afraid to say it at this point. I used to this didn't I believe it was a lot of jealousy, you know, because he had this little tear was the younger brother then he terrius. Now Terry's not under him or more. Terry is spreading his wings. Terry's with this older woman and they couldn't believe it. And like, you know, so he. I'm grooming him to be not this little boy anymore, this young man. Because by time we started. Started our relationship, I think he was about 20. He was like 25. He was just my friend at first. But I'm telling like, you got to dress like this. You got to do like this. You got. Hey, you got to do.

[A]

Gaming them up camera.

[B]

Really, you know, I am gaming them up. And I think that was a little jealousy there. And so he felt like I was taking his brother and now he doesn't have the control. Now we're doing everything. You know, this has become my friend and they're not together anymore, so. So I think it was a lot of jealousy and that. I mean, with the whole family. He's no longer running over there. He's hanging over here with me and my people.

[A]

Gotcha. So the business is taking off. You guys are making money hand over fist. You're getting to lay up and, you know, be mama bear to the babies and just live the life. And life is really good for a while there. And then Terry starts showing signs of kind of like getting a little too big for his britches. And you're saying, hey, hey, yeah, take me on this part of the journey.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, you know, if you've been around. I've been around a long time. You know, when we first started this conversation, I was young. I was 19, 20 years old. So I had been to this road. I've been on this rodeo a long time. You know, I've already seen so many people fall. But the bigger they got to, the more the Eagles and the things they were doing. It was like I had never seen, like, I've been in a game, so I never seen people that show people like, hey. It was like they were writing it on their shirts and wearing T shirt. We are drug dealers.

[A]

No, because they were. They had named themselves bmf.

[B]

It was like, yeah, but the BMF came because they wanted. They did legitimately want to do, you know, start a record label. Right. But the way that they went about. Meech went about doing a record label. You. You're selling, don't forget you're doing illegal things, right? And you can't be out there thinking like, first get the company, start the company, Lego the drugs, and then you can do whatever you want to do, but you can't mix the two. And it was always. Everything had to be over the top, right? And that grew, that started a lot of tension. And that's when me and Terry started that. Because I'm like, you got. You guys gonna get me indicted. You're gonna get me indicted. You guys gonna get me indicted. And I would say it like all the time. And so I don't know if I manife, but in my mind I knew.

[A]

You can feel it.

[B]

Yeah. No matter how many times I could have a good time, but after a good time, I go right back to it. This is going to end soon. This is going to end soon. And it's fast. They always say it was a long time. You know, the longest running BMF wasn't me and Meth with them started like in 2002, and by 2005 we were indicted. 2001 too, and we were indicted. And all those times, I don't even know how it lasted that long because I had already felt like they were doing too much. And I was very quiet. Like, even when people from my hometown didn't know, they always thought that I'm getting taken care of by the man. They didn't know that I was doing my own thing. So in the back in the shadows, even when the prosecutor and, you know, indicted me, she said, oh, I know about you. You know, I know about you. You think you, you think you don't got away with some stuff this time. She like, but I'm gonna get you. I'm kidding. Get you. Like, I ain't did nothing, sugar. You know, you can't get me. Because I had already, you know, pulled back. And by time they started, it was a little. It was a lot for me, right? But when I sit back and look at the whole thing, I had jumped into the fire, into the fire pan because I had left H and jumped into this and never really pulling back. And I was just moving. I was damaged by, by this time already. Just damaged, not really fixing who I was. You know, you gotta think you're. You're already out of this abusive relationship. You didn't fix yourself. You just jumped into another mixed up, crazy, toxic world. And that's what I was just always on that roller coaster. Always on that roller coaster. So that's what happened.

[A]

It was like, was this the time that he had brought your children in to start working for him?

[B]

It was my oldest son, my three nephews and my cousin. They all got involved in it. And at the time I said, when I, when I pushed back, my son was in Detroit, we were in Los Angeles by this time. And I didn't know like, why. I'm thinking like, teres, don't go back to Detroit. You go back to Detroit, you're going to get in trouble, you're going to get us indicted. Don't go back to Detroit. Look, you know, look, just keep that behind you. It's no longer. Act like it's no longer existing, you know, in that world for you. But my oldest son, he always was very close to my mom and he thought he was the prince of Detroit. So he didn't want to come like to LA like that. So Terry and them had a, their whole secret relationship. Terry was bringing in my whole family.

[A]

In which even after you told him.

[B]

Not, not to, don't get my family involved. I had the whole conversations with, with my sons and my nephew, don't get involved in this. And you know, it's still, even though he brought him in, I still felt a lot, you know, responsible for it. You know, I held a lot of regret even when I went to prison and they went to prison because I feel like I still, even though without Terry, I still myself was in the streets. So even if me and Terry hadn't gotten together, that was my life. After Harold went to prison, my ex husband went to prison. The streets were still my life. No matter if I had the little job, side job, you know, to, you know, to throw. Thinking I'm throwing people off. After work, before work, the streets was my job. That's what I did. That's the only thing they knew, you know, that's. I made it seem so easy.

[A]

Right? You feel like you made the appeal?

[B]

Yeah, I made it appealing. You know, I said if I was a doctor, a lawyer, attorney or something, maybe that, that wouldn't have been so appealing to them, right? But I made it so easy. The money was easy. They wanted that power and ego too, and they fell right into that hole with me. So even though I can be upset with him, I still have to take the responsibility for myself. Like, look, lady, no matter who you would have been with or what, you were still doing your thing. And you showed them that it was easy. No matter how much you fought for them not to be in it, you still showed them that this was the life. And I made it look, easy.

[A]

That's heavy. That's heavy. It's a heavy cross to bear because it's like, yeah, you know, you want to have accountability, but you also want to be able to point fingers at Terry.

[B]

Yeah, wanted to. But you still have to understand that, you know, you chose this life too. You brought them in at a younger, a young age. You know, Terry wasn't the first one. You're my ex husband, right? Was, you know, a street guy. So what would I expect? You know, It's. It's like 70% of women that are in the streets or incarcerated, 70% of your offsprings, one of them are going to end up in prison. Wow. Yeah, that is.

[A]

That statistic is.

[B]

It's. It's high, right?

[A]

It's high.

[B]

It's very high.

[A]

That's insane. So before you guys got indicted, you had taken a trip back to Detroit and h had caught up with you. Is that a true part of your story?

[B]

That's a true story.

[A]

Can we talk about that? Because that was brutal.

[B]

Yeah, it was brutal. But, you know, I knew that, you know, even like we would have the conversations and even though he would try to act cool about it, I just knew. I didn't. I knew him and I didn't trust him like that. And not that I trust him before, I just knew him, right. No matter how I said, oh, he's trying to catch up with me. So I wouldn't tell anybody when I would come back to Detroit, but I had a couple of friends that I were very close to. And my one friend, she always, like, when you come to Detroit, let me know, let me know, let me know. And I knew, you know, something told me all the time, why is she. You don't want to see me that bad, you know, But I just. I felt it in my soul and in my spirit. It was telling me now something off. But I told her, okay, I did it at first. I told her, okay, And I did show up, you know, she invited me out, you know, and her and hero had this secret relationship. My ex husband, for the viewers to know. They had the secret relationship. But he did it, you know, after we talked about it. He did it because of that. He was get. That's the way he was getting. Trying to get back at me. He was gonna. He was gonna date my friends. He was gonna date. He was gonna date Terry's ex baby mama. But he was like, nah, he tried that and looked at him like, I can't do that. He can't. I can't see how he did it. But. Yeah, the shade. The shade, right.

[A]

All right.

[B]

But he said. So he was. That was intentional on his part, and he did it to get. That's the only way he could convince me, because he would always try to convince me to come meet him, come see him. I'm like, no, I'm not doing that. And so she convinced me to go out when I come back to Detroit, and that's what happened. I pulled up to the bar to meet her, and I changed my mind. It's something like God was just talking to me. Don't go in. Go home. Don't go in. I looked at the bar. Bar. I'm like, I'm going home. Yeah. And before I could get home, he. That's when he crashed into me. He actually had the gun. And he. I don't remember this part, but as, you know, time went on, we talked about it. He said, actually put the gun out and pointed it to, like, my head. And something said, don't do it.

[A]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

He said it was like a person. He beat you up? Just. He really beat me. Pulled you out of the car? Pulled me out the car. Beat me really bad. And then at the. At the end of the beating, it was supposed to be the shooting, you know, he's supposed to shoot me. But he said something. He said when he looked around, nobody was around. The street was very dark. But he said he could hear clear as day, don't do it. And he said he walked away. I mean, jumped in his car and left. Left me there. And then the next thing I knew, I'm in the hospital.

[A]

This is the mother of your children, you know, like, how could you?

[B]

Yeah, they don't think about that. They just think about the anger and that. They think of it as the jealousy, you know, they think of it as betrayal. No, the betrayal started long time ago. You. You know, when you were leading me years before that, or cheating on me before that. And he thought that, you know, he thought I left because of Terry. No, it left because of you. You. You, Terry. If Terry never is existed, I wasn't gonna be back with you, you know.

[A]

What is your relationship like with H today?

[B]

It's good. You know, we don't talk all the time. He's actually about to get married. You know, Lucky. We could coexist, you know, even though the boys are older, we could talk, have conversations. He's the one that actually, when I was about to do the first Trap Queens and talk about it, I had to sit down with. I sat down with my sons and asked them if they feel okay with it. I never talked about my abuse. You know, it was a thing that I just walked, you know, walked the life. And it was inside of me. Nobody never really knew how I felt about it, how internally how it turned out. But after talking to him, I said, hey, I'm going to tell my story. And he said, you should. And I said, I'm have to tell you. He said, you should. He said, women should know that this can happen to them. He said, I'm not that person no more. And he apologized. So, like, he told me stories that I had never heard about him. And the apology that he gave me, like, it was so receiving to me. Like, I never. You know how people say, you don't. You don't need that apology if you never get the apology. You don't. You don't need to get. You. You're okay. I thought that. But once I got it from him this month. Most sincere apology behind the story. You should tell your story. I'm no longer that person. I'm not Shame. You know, I can talk about it. Anything that you. You. If you need me for it, just let me know, you know? You know, I want to show men that they. He said he was in prison and he would hear the stories and he would just be embarrassed and his body would cringe and like, how did I do that to somebody I love so much? You know? He said, I loved you so much. And he said, I couldn't understand why I did. Did that to you all the time. But he said I was sick. I grew up in it. My father did it to my mother, and I thought I was okay. And then it was the cycle that I did to you. And after I got that apology, it was just like, okay at first. I, like, it changed something in me with him, you know, at first I just would talk to him, but, like, I wouldn't still want to be around him. I couldn't have that conversation. But after that apology and the explanation and telling me gave me the freedom to speak about it.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I felt. I felt a relief, A real relief.

[A]

That's amazing. That is really cool. Well, I'm happy H. Redeemed himself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I wasn't expecting that answer.

[B]

No, he came to the screening. He spoke a little bit, you know. Yes. Even.

[A]

Even though he's, you know, the truth is out there about him, to be able to fit face it like that. That's some real man.

[B]

Yeah, it is. Yeah.

[A]

That's amazing that he did that. He did My abusive ex would never. He's still trying to shame me, telling me the abuse didn't happen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So can't wait for that day. So let's circle back to when you guys did get indicted. How much time did you get? How much time did your son get and how much time did Terry get?

[B]

My. I got 57 months, and that's almost five years. Five years, three or four months. My son got 11 years. My nephew. One of my nephews got eight years, one got nine years, one got 11, and one got 13. And, yeah, and Terry got 30 years, but he came home on the CARES act, so he's home, but Demetrius is not home.

[A]

So, you know, you spoke a lot about being in prison, what you had to do, you know, dealing with the counselor and how you had a change of heart. And in prison, it was pretty much.

[B]

Like your lowest, at your lowest. It's. I mean, it felt like, you know, I end up working in a prison chapel. I don't know how to happen. You know, the counselor, you know, at the first counselor gave, you know, end up working in a chapel. In federal prison, everybody has to have a job. And it was only one out of 600 women. It was one job job, one person for one job at the chapel. And it was given to me. So I thought that was God putting me on a path. I was in the middle of the desert. I was in prison, like in Victorville Prison. And if anybody know about Victorville Prison, it's in the middle of the desert.

[A]

I grew up in Vegas, so.

[B]

So you know about it. And I felt like that this was. I was stripped, like I said, stripped of everything. This is my time to reflect on how did I get here. I walked on that yard. I was in the middle of the first night. I was in the middle of sandstorm. And I looked up at the sky and I told God, please help me. Why am I here? Please change me. Let me figure out why I'm here. So when I got the job in the chapel, I was around. I. I knew God. We called on God all the time. You know, when you're in the streets, you probably got. Let me get through this, okay, God, I'm. I'm out. You know, One more time.

[A]

One more time.

[B]

You know, you got all this drugs, you driving or you doing something. Come on, God. Thank you, God. Blessing him for the wrong things, you know? And when I end up in prison, I realized that I had to call on him much more than I ever had to call on him in my life. I was in the middle of the desert. I was the only one that worked in the prison chapel. So now I had to face God. I. I didn't realize in my whole life. Life. How many different religions or that I was there. And I just seen all these books and all these things that I had to deal with every day. I felt like I was stripped. I had nobody. You know, even though you have family on the outside, you have your children, but once I got. Once I was in prison, I was alone. No matter how many women were around me, I felt alone. And I had to call on this man and get on my knees and call on him like I never called on him before. My whole family, it was like I was. Was in a fire. Once I got indicted, I felt like I had. Like a fire had took over. You know how when people say I lost everything, I felt like I lost everything. Now I'm alone. I'm in prison. I got to do all these years. I'm mad, I'm bitter, I'm angry, I'm full of regret. I'm feeling so sorry for myself. Like, how you feel sorry for yourself talking to me, you know, why are you feeling sorry for you? You belong here. You had gotten away with so much in your life. You belong here. Because at first I'm thinking, I'm mad at Terry and Demetrius. How can you know? As time went on, I'm like, well, how are you gonna be mad at him? You've been selling drugs way before. You just got away with this. You know, I was just getting away. I was just. You know, God was. Had been saving me a long time. He'd been saving me through the abuse, through getting caught up with all the drugs. It was finally he said, I gotta chastise you. You gotta. Come here. Yeah. Sit you down, baby. And when I was sitting down and I was all alone, I realized that how messed up I was. This criminal mind and this thinking, my heart and my soul I was. I had to get it together. Because now I'm. I have five young men in prison. I can't talk to them. I can't hear their voice. I was in prison. I had to just imagine my son's voice, my oldest son, even though my nephew was there, but it's different. Your son. I feel bad for all of them, but I'm responsible now. I don't hear my oldest son. He's 21, and he has spent 11 years of his life in prison. I got two sons at home just kind of fending for themselves. They're young men they never had been working without their mother. Right. And I'm sitting here in prison. I had to get it together.

[A]

Did H. Step up with them whenever you went away or remember?

[B]

H was after the seven years, a few years later, H. Went back in the. Gotcha.

[A]

Okay, so you guys were both in.

[B]

We were both in prison. So, yeah. So, yeah, my younger sons, they were out in the streets. They didn't have to be. I could say, go home to my mom now. We're going to stay here closer to you, because they wanted to come visit me. But still, they couldn't be live their life no more, you know, Then I started.

[A]

They did the time with you?

[B]

Yeah, they're doing the time with me because they got to come visit me. They got to feel that hurt. They don't have a father, they don't have no brother. They don't have a mommy. They just out there alone. And I felt that when I was in prison. So that was the turning point of my life. And I've said that I needed to go there.

[A]

I think that's amazing that you were able to. To look inward and reflect, because some people go to prison, like you said, and they get angry and just hate everybody, hate everybody.

[B]

Come home with that same attitude, blaming others and. No, I had to. Look at me. Look at me.

[A]

So you did your time, and during this, you weren't allowed to talk to Terry, but you went in already mad at Terry because of listening to some.

[B]

Tapes, Listening to the wiretaps. Yeah.

[A]

What did you hear on those wires?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Because I. I don't think you guys really got into.

[B]

We never talk about that. Nobody ever talked about, but it was such, you know, like, it's like the women. He, he. It was just crazy. It's like you built this person up and you thinking this person is loving you. You take in everything that I've given you, and you take it, and you about to have a baby, you know, and then you dating somebody that's very close to me. Like, if you want, you listen, I wrote this poem. How could you do this to me? You were like my sister, but it was them too. He was in a relationship that somebody. I can't. I raised. So you were looking at her as a child, and I raised her. So you end up dating her. And on these wiretaps, you saying that you're leaving me. Then you have another woman that you. She's pregnant by you. And the one. The other woman he's pregnant by, you win. I'm. I'm thinking of myself. Like, you know, you build yourself, you have a class about yourself. For some reason, men go by, where'd you go find this woman?

[A]

Like, you know, you know, what hold did they crawl out of?

[B]

And you don't want to think like, you know, but it makes you it. And then the thought of it made me angry. Like these go get you a bad bitch. Like, you know, and then you have you begging, like, literally begging her to have. She wanted it. She was time. I'm getting abortion. And he's on there talking about, you better not get rid of my baby. I'm like, well, what y' all gonna do with me right? When? When you tell me, what am I supposed to do? You already dating this child I look at as a child. You taking the hard on money that I give gave you. Because when I got you, your. Your child's mother lived in the worst part of the neighborhood. I'm like, help her get out the neighborhood. Put your kids in a private school. Do better. Do it. Be a better father. I'm sharing my money, I'm sharing this with you. So how could you betray me like this? And everything that you were doing that I was asking you not to do, like going back to Detroit, the women, the. Just everything that I'm saying, don't do that, don't do this. It was all on the tapes. It was like just ringing, ringing in my ear. And that's all I could hear here. Like every day. You, I'm upstairs, you downstairs, you in my house. You know when you hear a man in your house with another woman, something, it is not like this was all his riches. This was something I built too. I'm going, I'm in prison for this now. You know, I gave you this. You know, if. If I always think, like, if I didn't come into your life, where would you know? Not like bragging or saying, but I don't know, where would you be? Yeah, you know, it was such a betrayal. And especially when, you know these. I mean, I didn't know the woman that was having his child, but I knew the other one. Like I said, literally raised her. It was like you were watching me groom this young girl to be with her. And that was. That was very hurtful.

[A]

And then it's kind of gross too.

[B]

It's gross. It was really gross. It was embarrassing and it was gross. Then my sons, and I'm thinking about, dang, I don't put my sons in this life and you do this foul to me. Like, it's so many women in the street, men could treat, cheat with, or do your thing with. Why do that? So close.

[A]

So close to home.

[B]

So close. Like, I'm up. You know, Like I said, I'm in one door, and the next door, y'. All. Downstairs, I'm upstairs. You don't think like that. You think in this person is your. Your dog, your homie, your best friend.

[A]

Betrayal, trauma is the worst.

[B]

Yeah, it's the worst.

[A]

You don't ever get over it.

[B]

You don't ever get over. And I. And I. And the worst is not seeing a person, but listening to emotions. Right. When you hearing your. Your man talk to another woman, you could tell when they're bullshitting with her. I was hearing all these emotions. Like, you were in love and you had me. You felt like you was just stringing me along alone, you know? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, I've been through it, so I understand exactly what you're talking about. I still look at my husband cockeyed to this day. His affair happened five years ago.

[B]

I think you still.

[A]

But I still look at him. Like, I saw the text messages. I saw the. The girl built a whole case on him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And sent it to me whenever went south.

[B]

When it went bad. Yeah.

[A]

And when you see the pictures, the.

[B]

Videos, the stones of voices and, you know, the songs, he was saying, these my favorite songs.

[A]

Oh, don't get me started. I still can't listen. Yeah.

[B]

Turn it off. What? No, we can't hear.

[A]

Literally, we'll be somewhere and the song will come on because it's Ain't no sunshine when she's gone. Nothing compares to you. The Chris Cornell version. Anytime I hear this, I literally look.

[B]

At him and I'm just like, you, My secret love. So I'm in the kitchen cooking, and they're in the kitchen with me. And even playing because he called himself a dj so he. He would play the song. So you really antagonize me. You're playing with my emotions, and I'm not really knowing that you're doing this. And it was. Yeah. And you could hear them on the conversations. Talking about me. Like, you're really talking about me. Yeah, like you're really talking about.

[A]

Don't talk about me with other women.

[B]

With other women. And I used to always tell them that, because that was a saying with my father, my stepdad, was like, do not put your feet under another one. At least that man's table. And talk about the man you got at home. Don't do that. You don't need to do that. And that kind of Stuck with me as I grew up. You know, you don't do that. And I would tell him that because he would try to talk about his child's. His children's mother. I'm like, don't put your feet under my table talking about her. You had two children by something about her that you liked. We don't need to. And then to hear you on the phone talking about me was crazy. But then I had a moment in San. My mom had passed, and he came home a couple months later. So I thought, you know, like you said trauma bonding. Thought like, this was history. Let me get back with him. I think about five months. I think the last about five months. And I was like, what the hell.

[A]

Are you doing with Terry?

[B]

With Terry. He cut out with Terry. And I think, like you said, you started hearing the music. I started looking at him. It wasn't like we never got married.

[A]

You don't trust.

[B]

It's no trust. And I can see if, like I told him, we never. You never even married me. You know, you wasted so many. I wasted so many years of my life on you. You know, we never got married. So it was like, why did I. You. I wasn't good enough to marry. So let me just remove myself out your life, man. I just said I needed to get back to who I was. I feel like in all of this and all that, I lost who I was. And I know no matter what I did in my past past, I still was a strong, independent woman that I knew. Once I put my mind to something, I can do it. I don't need a man like that. Somebody so insecure. I need a strong, powerful man to be with the strong, powerful woman.

[A]

That's right, baby. No, that's right.

[B]

You know that is right. So anybody. Anybody know? Anybody? Single mama, single babies sliding them DMS, baby DMs popping. But I ain't seeing nobody yet. So y' all keep coming. Keep them coming.

[A]

I know they coming after this podcast drops.

[B]

Coming. Yes, yes.

[A]

I'm so happy that you. That you had the heart to walk away and the knowledge and the self respect for yourself to walk away after, you know, try retrying again for five months. Like, you know what? This isn't for me.

[B]

It's not for me.

[A]

So when you guys ended, did it end on good terms or.

[B]

And I thought. I thought it ended on. On good terms. You know, sometimes, you know, you say things to a person like, you know, know, this is just not for us. It's not for me. I don't Want to. I don't want to try this again anymore. You know, maybe it's somebody out there for you, you know, I don't know. But I don't think that person is me. Right. And so you think that it's okay? I didn't. It wasn't. No, you know, fuck you, motherfucker. You know, none of that. It was just like when I packed up and left, I just said, this is it. Right? This is it for me. But I think when you. When you go back to a person, you show them, them that they think they have something on you. They don't really think that you would leave for real. And that was my last time. It was like the. It was so small, I can't even remember, but it was like, it's not for me. And I look, and when I look at pictures or somebody sent me, some people say something we don't even match to me, we, like, like, you know, hate to say it.

[A]

Listen, I never knew what the real Terry looked like until after I. I watched bmf. And it was not what I thought. Yeah.

[B]

Not what she thought. Right. Like.

[A]

And I be like kind of like a turtle.

[B]

Right? Right. Yeah. And I just said, you are your.

[A]

You are fly.

[B]

You're beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. So we don't, you know, so I said, you know, you. Sometimes you got to let people be with who they used to be with. Right? And you. I'm not her. You go back over there and be with the people, you know?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Go back over there and.

[B]

Yeah. And so I ate. But at that point, I didn't know it was a beat. But, you know, I lost my son in July.

[A]

Yes. I'm so sorry.

[B]

I lost my middle son in July. Sorry for me to still talk about that, but not a text, not a flower, not nothing. I said, wow, you must be really angry. And you don't think a person's angry? You know, I think they should understand my. My anger. It's not an anger or disappointment, like you said, it's self disrespect. And how they depicted me in the. In the BMF series, I can't speak about that because I'm living. They. You did a whole show around a woman that's living. It's not like my estate is mad, my children's mad. I'm upset about how y' all portrayed me in a movie, and I didn't know that that's the way y' all felt about me, you know, so here you are.

[A]

Not to gloss over the Fact that you lost your son, which I definitely want to touch on that too. I just want to highlight really quick. Here you are. You know, let me left. Terry thought everything was fine, and then all of a sudden you hear about this TV show that's in the works.

[B]

Well, they teach my. Their show had already been in the works.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The show. Their show came out in 21. 2021. Like, I think at the end of 20 or something like that. My son just passed 23 in July.

[A]

Okay, gotcha.

[B]

So did they ever ask you to.

[A]

Be a part of the show?

[B]

No. I had started working with Phil 50 Cent in 2016 on BMF series. Okay. So I was sitting in writers rooms sitting with Randy, the showrunner. It's. It's a real big mess. You know, I can't talk about it right now, but.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And then you don't find out. You're not into it. And that was another thing. Terry. They wasn't gonna even use Terry. Terry was in prison. Prison. I hired the lawyer for Terry to make sure that he got his proper, you know.

[A]

So do you feel like you came up with the concept for the TV show?

[B]

I didn't come up with the concept, but I. I know I was very intricate in helping build that story. I'm intricate in the story, right? Because you see, you created a whole storyline about me. It's not like you had me and cece season two and three or one and I'm. Or season one and I'm out of there. That my. My character keeps coming season two and season three, and if they have another season, because how are you gonna get rid of la? La is playing my character, and they know she's a major part of that story. When I found out that when I got the lawyer for Terry and I said, terry, we gone. We. We're in the contract together. Terry somehow got. Once he signed his contract, he told them to not to use me. I didn't know he did this to me. I didn't know.

[A]

It's just one betrayal.

[B]

And then I found out afterwards, so I kept it. I kept it to myself. I ain't say nothing. So I was trying to still work it. They were trying to work something still out for me. And then I didn't end up doing prevented. And my son, my younger son owned the trademark who did it. The trademark. In 2015, when nobody wanted to touch me and left no more, everybody was like, if you mess with it, you go into prison. We don't want to touch it. So my younger son built this whole thing around it saying, I' ma show it. Not as a gang, as we were a family. We were a family unit. So he started selling merchandise. T shirt. He had this whole. If you look at his page, that's. He'd been doing it for years. All of a sudden, when 50 Cent got the contract with Stars, because before Stars BMF series, it was going to be a movie. Wow. And the movie didn't go through because somebody else owned the rights to doing the movie. He ended up making it a series. Then here come all of them. The mother and everybody. Now everybody want their bmf, you know. Now here everybody comes. But that was the betrayal. So I didn't know until kind of, wow. But you know what? I don't look, thanks for the betrayal. He did me a favor. Because sometimes that's God moving you, you know, I might have not. If I wasn't becoming aware of all the betrayal. I might have still been under there, still under his kind of control and not being able to do me. Once I realized and say, you know what? I had enough of this. I had enough of you, your whole family. I don't want no parts of anymore. I sat back, I released it a week later. I get a call and say, well, I'm still soaking and I'm still upset. Anytime you break up anything, a relationship, you feel retrained. You still got to mourn that, too. And once I went through that, I said, you know, I was still my. My oldest son. He said, I'm talking. You got 24 hours to. 48 hours to soak in this. And then you gotta let it go.

[A]

That's my motto.

[B]

That's yours.

[A]

I swear. I just told my kid that the other day. I said, you got 24 to 48 hours, and you need to get the fuck up and stop crying over.

[B]

And that's his whole thing. I'm like, okay. And right after I said, I can't let him see me doing this again. I got up. I mean, I kind of licked my wounds and I got a call, hey, we want to do. How about doing your movie? Wouldn't he want to sit down and have a meeting with you about doing your movie? And I think that was what God wanted me to do, because he wanted me to have my own shine my own light, my own redemption, my own story. Not under the men, not under them. And I would have been mixed in like I am mixed in there now. And people don't understand the story until they talk to me or see me. Now everybody's okay, so we know who you are. We've seen your story, but it had to be because my journey is so different. I had so many layers. I never wanted to tell the story like they told the story. I don't think it's entertaining to talk about a woman in abusive relationship. I don't think it's entertaining now to talk about selling, glorifying the drug, selling the murders. You know, once you went through it and you caught, you know, you wanna. I changed who I. Who I am. It wouldn't. It wouldn't have been a part of me. Like, I wouldn't have felt good about. Like, I don't feel good about that story. It's theirs. I. I wish them the best on it, but I'm glad that I got the opportunity to do my own story and tell my truth.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's a beautiful story too, like you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Can we circle back to your son that you just lost in 2023? Can we talk about that and what.

[B]

Happened if I don't get emotional? It's still kind of.

[A]

It's so recent.

[B]

It was in the first one. I think about. I can talk. And then as soon as I start talking about it, yes, I'm still dealing with that a lot. He. He. He wanted to go home. He said he wanted to be with God, but the witches. Before the week it happened, I was in Detroit, he was in la. And he called me, said, I need to see you. And I said, well, I'll be there tomorrow. And I flew to la and we spent the most beautiful time together, just him and I. And we talked and we ate and we laughed and we had a great time. So I left on a Friday. And he said, promise me you'll never, you know, we won't go a day without talking to each other, you know, because when kids get grown, everybody get grown and get in their life. You might not hear from a couple of days or three days. So we made a promise, you know, we pinky and you doing all that. He said, make a promise that we would never go a day without speaking. I said, okay, you know, I'm not thinking. Like, I said, okay. And he said, and so I got home, I called him, I said, I made it. He said, okay, talk to you tomorrow, sir. He came, didn't talk to him, you know, still didn't think nothing of it. Sunday came, came. I was calling him, didn't talk to him. I panicked automatically. I said, God, we're not supposed to. This is not supposed to happen. We supposed to talk every day. Something is wrong. Something is wrong. So I end up calling his wife, which I never do. And I said, where's Jason? I haven't heard from him. And she said, well, he's okay. He's at home. He's just going through a lot. And I said, well, what is he going through? You know, but he's just going through a lot. And. And then I said, okay. We were talking, we were chatting. I said, I'm about to run in Starbucks. I'll call you back. Let me call you back. Because I needed my phone, the app. So let me call you back. So about time. I got my Starbucks, got back in the car, called her back, and she was like, he's gone. I said, who's gone? Jay's gone. Like, gone where? She said, he's gone. Just step fast.

[A]

So he took his own life. Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry.

[B]

Just that fast.

[A]

Mimi, can we get some tissues?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I am so sorry. So do you want to hug?

[B]

It's going to make me feel worse.

[A]

I'm going to hug you, cuz I'm going to cr.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

Listen, things are.

[B]

No, just kidding.

[A]

Things are rough around here.

[B]

Okay. No, it's cute. But, yeah. So, you know, I just think, like, did.

[A]

Was he battling a mental illness of some sort?

[B]

No, and that's. That's the part of the. About it, like. And people always think like, that. You see it coming, but talking to therapists and everybody, you don't Sometimes you just don't. Sometimes it's a break. He probably knew, but he would never show me that. He never wanted me to see that. Or probably his wife said he would go in and out, but she never thought that. You know, people in life get depressed. You know, it's life and it's tough and it's rough. It's. It's been rough on my family since the indictment. You know, they made it. People have made it really rough. But I thought we overcame it. I thought we were going to be okay. And. Yeah.

[A]

So I'm so sorry, but I. I just thank God.

[B]

I said, well, thanks for giving me that time, you know, thanks for him saying, I want to be with her. But you. You know, my son was so handsome. Like, gosh, it was handsome. And seeing him, you know, laying that casket, he looks so, like he. He looked like the little. Like a little boy. Like he was so, like, so fresh and it looked like he was in such a peace. So I try to think about, like, all the time, like he was out of peace. So whatever was so heavy on him, him that he's at a peace. And I know the way my life has been going, that he's up there just like an angel. Just because he always said, he told me. Then he said, forget about all this stuff. No, but you still just having a conversation. Forget about all this stuff. Take care of you. We are all grown. We are grown. Take care of you. Go be happy. Mother. Mom. He said, you. You haven't been happy. You go be happy. I said, I'm happy. He said, no, you're not. Go be happy.

[A]

I don't need that toilet paper.

[B]

Go be happy. And I said, okay. He said, I just. It's just because he. He still called me mommy. He said, mommy, just go be happy. I said, okay. He said, we gonna be all right. We all gonna be all right. And I never thought. I keep thinking, how. Why did I lean? But that was just the journey. That was our time. And just knowing that he said that he wanted to be with God. That's the blessing. Seeing him, he looks so beautiful. Like, beautiful, like at a peace, like the angels and God had just came and took him themselves. He was that beautiful.

[A]

Your life is such a testimony of just resilience, brilliance, and of what a strong woman really is. I'm sorry. I'm so cute. It has me just gutted right now. Moving on from that situation. Of course. Yeah, let's take it. Let's take a deep breath. I got tears still coming out of my eyes. Moving forward from that. That beautiful, beautifully tried, tragic story. You have some really awesome things that are happening in your life, and you are doing some really awesome things. You said earlier that you are doing. You know, you help with prison reform. You have a few shows that have been out, which was what. What are the three names again? You have the movie. You have the notorious, Notorious Queens Trap.

[B]

Queens Mom. I just got a new book deal that my book will be out next year. Excuse me. Like I said, work in prison reform tomorrow. Always. Sorry, guys. You're good. You're good.

[A]

Take a deep breath.

[B]

Just doing some amazing things. Helping women, helping people. Filing motions just in my community. Giving back. Helping with expungements. You know, giving a lot of hugs and, you know, uplifting people, showing. Giving them hope. Because I am an older woman now, and I don't want people to think you have to give up. You can just never know what can happen in your life. You know, I have been through some things, and I always say, why me? But then I'm chosen. To help other people. And that's my path now. That's my journey that I'm out here. And even before that happened to my son, that's what make me happy most is helping other people. You know, I. I didn't. Well, I'm a nominee in the Image Awards. Yes.

[A]

You're going to win.

[B]

I'm going to win. I already have my speech.

[A]

You're going to win. She said she's so cute when she came in, I was like, you're going to win. She said, I already got my speech. And that's how you know she's going to win.

[B]

She's a manifesting queen manifested. And I'm already, you know, and even if I don't, I already won. You know, just to be in that category, to be a nominee, somebody, like we say, you come from the streets, you never know what your journey is. You know, we always think we don't get second chances, but now society has given us second chances. And I know. I'm saying I'm beyond my chances. I know I don't have more than second chances. And just to know that such a prestigious committee have looked at my story and seen that my journey and the path that I'm on and said, hey, we want to put you in this category to be a nominee. I already won. Yeah.

[A]

And is there a way for us to vote?

[B]

Well, voting is cut off already.

[A]

So I did vote whenever.

[B]

Yeah, you vote.

[A]

I didn't know if it was still going or whatever.

[B]

It ended I think Friday. What's today? Tuesday. Assembly. Monday. I work today's Tuesday. Tuesday. So, yeah. That's amazing. Journey. And I. And I didn't want to write a book until feel that I had accomplished some amazing things, you know, that I said. I told my son, my oldest son when I first came home to write a book. I'm like my notebook to talk about what I had. I knew I had some things that I had to conquer, some things I knew it was some more work that I had to do within myself. And when I talk about who I am and me, I want it to mean value. I want see people to see. I overcame and that I changed who I was. Was.

[A]

Yes, ma'.

[B]

Am.

[A]

That is why I'm doing this series because everybody. I grew up in a street life too, and everybody glorifies it. I mean, the movies, Hollywood, social media. Like everybody glorifies drug dealing. And, you know, I talk about, you know, being an ex escort and you know, to people, some people think that I glamorize it. But I don't. Because I don't really go in depth about it, you know, And I just. That that was a part of my life. So being able to bring the women like you and Ramona and Renee and just really showing people that the real lifestyle and the shit that you guys have had to go through and overcome and just the beautifully amazing women that you guys are, so inspiring.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Your story is so incredible.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

And it deserves to be heard. And I hope you. You don't stop screaming it from the laptops ever.

[B]

No, I'm putting in the work. You know, people do need to hear it. You know, we. We. We were first to go through the shame and the guilt, and now it's like, hey, this is who I am. I'd rather me tell it than anybody else tell it. I need you to know what happens. I am a. No, I'm not even a. What? A survivor. You are a survivor. I'm a survivor. And people know. And we all don't make it out. You know, so many women have been losing their lives, and we all don't make it out. So this is a story that people need to watch. It's a cautionary story, and it's also meant to be inspiring as they end. You know, it was tough. It was a tough life that I, you know, that I had. And I want people to understand that, hey, don't think it's glamorous. They all glitz and gamers. You know, I was blessed in a way that I had. I didn't have to still be in prison and due time, but I was one of those chosen ones to say, hey, this don't happen often. Don't happen often.

[A]

That is amazing. Where can people find you online? And do you have a website?

[B]

I have a website. I have silent heart.org and that's with the Y S. Y L, not S I L. And then you can watch me on social media. This first lady, Tony Satok, I think is just my name. I don't know my hair, but I follow you over there.

[A]

I didn't know had one or not.

[B]

Yeah, I. I just thought I'm, you know.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Whatever you need.

[B]

Thank you. But yeah, and most of it, you could just Google my name or just follow me. First lady Tony. And Facebook is my name and Twitter is my name.

[A]

And watch first lady.

[B]

Yeah, watch first lady of bmf. The Tony so Welch story on bet plus beyond bet.

[A]

It's well worth it, guys. I promise you. Haley and I watched it and we love Loved it.

[B]

Thank you, guys. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you so much for coming.

[B]

Thank you for having me. Thank you. I have too much. I enjoyed. I'm a talker too. No, I love it.

[A]

I love it. I felt so many feels through this whole interview. It was just like laughing and then like, heart wrenching. And there's just so much, and it's just really beautiful. And I'm so happy to be able to have a platform to help you scream it even louder anytime.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

After you read that book and you.

[B]

Do a book tour, come back and come back and you know, like, this is a crazy, crazy coincidence because, you know, Jelly Roll is one of my favorite artists.

[A]

Yeah, we're gonna FaceTime daddy after this.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I just went to his concert and then when I called you call me, I'm like, oh, my God, no, this can't be real. Yeah, you were in Detroit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So we're gonna be on tour again. You gotta come.

[B]

Oh, I've already seen you gotta be in Wichita, Kansas. I'm thinking, is it September? September.

[A]

Okay, just tell me.

[B]

I gotta wait that long, though, because you don't start until what, summer, August, and then you're in Wichita, because by time, you. Wichita would be the closest to me because my brother stayed there. Okay. So I already told him, heck, we going to.

[A]

Oh, let's go. We'll have our bus there too, so you can come and just chill on the bus. I'll bring you backstage already. He'll fan out.

[B]

Love it. Love, love it.

[A]

Ms. Tonisha, thank you so much. I'm so sorry, Ms. Tona.

[B]

Thank you. And thanks for having me on the Dumb Blonde podcast, baby. Yes. Dumb podcast. Thank you, guys. I appreciate you.

[A]

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Dumb Blonde. I will see you guys next week. Bye.