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- [00:06]
Nikki Boyer
I so excited. We're going into production on Dying for Sex. And it's just, it's, it's, it's happening and I just, I don't even know how to react because I feel like we've been waiting so long for this to happen. I just, I'm a little beside myself. When you lose someone that you love, you know, you talk to them. I mean, I do. And not out loud usually, but they're still there in the room, you know, and sometimes feeling them close makes you want to say something back. And for me, that meant hitting record. I am about to go on set today, so I will be meeting everyone for the first time today. So I'm just trying to play it cool, you know, like, yeah, this is no big deal, but on the inside, I feel like it's my first day of school. I started making these little voice memos during the making of FX's new streaming series on Hulu, Dying for Sex. And I wasn't really planning on sharing them. I just think I wanted to feel like Molly was part of this moment. I'm walking around the set and all around are like little signs that say, dying for Sex this way. Wardrobe this way. Production studios this way. And I just, oh, I'm getting emotional.
- [01:34]
Michelle Williams
Shit.
- [01:35]
Nikki Boyer
It's like happening. And everyone's working. There's catering, there's grips, there's wardrobe stylists, there's makeup people. And they're all working to tell her story. Like, it's so beautiful and so humbling and so fucking cool. This three episode series is my chance to sit down with the insanely talented people who transformed a podcast about love, sex and dying into a television series and talk about how they did it. From the show's creators, who brought the story of Molly's cancer journey to life.
- [02:09]
Michelle Williams
I hope it opens doors in people's minds of just sort of like, is there a way of approaching death with open arms? A little bit.
- [02:17]
Nikki Boyer
To the actors who stripped down emotionally and physically, it might be the first cinematic crying mid blowjob scene of all times. And how they captured the spirit of Molly, who chose life even in the.
- [02:31]
Michelle Williams
Face of death, you know, the job brought together 120, 150 people working in their specific trades, doing what they do. But each and every one of those people was gathered around Molly's spirit. It's like a little bonfire was made. You know, this is our homage to her.
- [02:47]
Nikki Boyer
That's Michelle Williams, who plays my brilliant friend Molly. And I'm pretty sure Molly would be peeing her pants if she knew that the Michelle Williams was playing her. She's a five time Oscar nominated actress who's played complex, intense film roles in movies like the Fabelmans, Brokeback Mountain and Blue Valentine. For tv. She is one of only five performers in history to win all five major television awards in a single award cycle, including the Emmy for Lead Actress in a limited series as Gwen Verdon in FX's bossy Verdon. But watching Michelle play my best friend Molly, I was wowed. And not just by her talent, but by how deeply she got her. She brought her to life and today I get to ask her how she did it.
- [03:36]
Michelle Williams
You know I'm cold.
- [03:38]
Rob Delaney
You know it, don't you?
- [03:40]
Nikki Boyer
From Wondery. I'm Nikki Boyer and this is behind Dying for Sex, a series of interviews with the creators and the cast of the new FX show inspired by the podcast that I made with my best friend Molly.
- [03:52]
Rob Delaney
You know, a glow. You see it, don't you?
- [03:55]
Nikki Boyer
I should probably mention that I cried at one point during every one of these conversations because the people who made the TV series didn't just bring the story to tv, they treated it like it mattered. Like Molly mattered. And that meant the world to me. This is episode one Michelle Williams on becoming Molly and now I've got the whole world.
- [04:32]
Rob Delaney
Craving your next action packed adventure. Audible delivers thrills of every kind on your command. Like Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir, where a lone astronaut must save humanity from extinction. Narrated with stunning intensity by Ray Porter. From electrifying suspense and daring quests to spine tingling horror and romance in far off realms, unleash your adventure aside with gripping titles that'll keep you guessing. Discover exclusive Audible originals, hotly anticipated new releases and must Listen bestsellers that hook you from the first minute because Audible knows there's no greater thrill than the one that speaks to you. Discover what lies beyond the edge of your seat. Start your free 30 day trial at audible.com wonderyus that's audible.com wonderyus so I.
- [05:22]
Jay Duplass
Just used NerdWallet's card finder tool to find a better card for me and listeners. This is genius. All you have to do is answer a few questions and in minutes you'll get matched with recommendations tailored to you. I'm discovering cards I didn't even know existed and the matching was on point. The best part. No research needed. The nerds already did that for us. So if you, like me, want to easily find the right card for you, go to nerdwallet.com to get matched today. Terms and conditions Apply credit products subject to lender approval. See nerdwallet.com for details.
- [06:05]
Michelle Williams
Back to where it all began. Nikki.
- [06:07]
Nikki Boyer
I know. I was just gonna say that this is so, like, full circle, right?
- [06:12]
Michelle Williams
It's so amazing, you know? Cause I've been talking about the podcast and how I fell in love with it, how hard I fell for it. And so on this day, when I've been remembering it and thinking about it so much, that it'd be brought back together to be on the podc.
- [06:28]
Nikki Boyer
Moving well, just so you know, like, last night I went to sleep and I was kind of crying and going, like, why am I so emotional? But it feels like a little sliver of Molly. Like, I feel very connected to you in this way because of this. And I just am so grateful you're chatting with me. And like you said, coming full circle and doing a podcast. I love it.
- [06:50]
Michelle Williams
Likewise. Stop. I'm going to cry because I think, you know, our show owes everything to the podcast. And then it also deviates in some of its storytelling and in some of the ways that it elaborates. But really what it is is, like we're gathered around the spirit that the two of you created on the podcast and Molly's spirit that's no longer with us. So she gets brought back to life in these moments when we can talk about her and say, yeah, she was like this. And these are the lessons that I take away from her. And then to also start to hear about people having their own experiences of watching it and what they take away from the spirit of you two together and Molly's spirit.
- [07:41]
Nikki Boyer
I just feel like there's so much I wanted to say to you and so much I wanted to ask you when we were on set, but, you know, you were busy working and playing my best friend. So I'm so. I've been so looking forward to this conversation. But I have to know, I don't really know how you found out about the role of Molly. Like, I have no idea how it came to you.
- [08:02]
Michelle Williams
It was all Liz Meriwether, the co.
- [08:05]
Nikki Boyer
Creator of the TV series.
- [08:06]
Michelle Williams
Yeah, it came to me. Just kind of landed in my email inbox. This is the show that Liz is writing and producing, and it's based on a podcast. And here's one episode and a link to the podcast. And I read the episode and I thought, is that as good as I think it is? And I went back and read it a second time and I said, yes, it is. And then I linked to the podcast and listened to it in its Totality. And was sobbing uncontrollably at the end. And I couldn't communicate why to my husband. And so I thought, gosh, this thing really has a hold of me. I'm having such a. Such a strong response and such an emotional response. And that doesn't really happen to me so often anymore. And couldn't. Couldn't say why. So then it really had its hook in me because it was emotional, it was mysterious, it was compelling, it was funny. I was in love with you guys. I was devastated that she was gone.
- [09:09]
Nikki Boyer
Oh, what was it about? I mean, I know you said you cried and you said you couldn't quite figure out the why. Looking back, sort of in retrospect, do you know why now? Like, is it clear to you?
- [09:20]
Michelle Williams
Like, so many things. So many things. Well, I think one, the unsung song of deep female friendship, which is to say it's a love affair. It may not be sexual, it isn't sexual by nature of it being a friendship, but it is a deep, passionate love affair. And that's how I feel about my closest female friends. And I haven't seen that kind of intense love between women, or I just don't see it enough. But I know I experience it in my own life. So I was so moved by how you guys represented that, how you lived that, how you are that. And then for me, her choice to live all the way to the end so bravely. I was saying today to somebody that it's like when you're playing with a child and they build this big, beautiful structure of Legos or Magna tiles or whatever, and the way they deconstruct it isn't piece by piece, they obliterate it. They use their arm like a wrecking ball, and the whole thing comes crashing down. And I was thinking about how when Molly got her diagnosis, that's what she did to her life. The structure of a marriage, the structure of society, the structure of rules or human sexuality or what's acceptable. She just took a wrecking ball to it and said, this is not what I want. With the time that I have left and the bravery of that, you know, the job brought together120,150 people to a place of employment, working in their specific trades, doing what they do. But each and every one of those people was gathered around Molly's spirit. I know it's like a little bonfire was made. You know, this is our homage to her. This is our tribute.
- [11:13]
Nikki Boyer
I felt that so deeply. And, you know, the show covers a lot of really taboo topics. Like, of course, sex and cancer and death. Did you, like, was there a hesitation ever to take on a role that did this?
- [11:28]
Michelle Williams
No, not for me. I. I'm a leap and then look kind of person.
- [11:35]
Nikki Boyer
Yes.
- [11:36]
Michelle Williams
I've come to discover this about myself because when I fall in love, when I have an overwhelming response to a piece of material or a person or a place, I just start running towards it.
- [11:53]
Nikki Boyer
Right. Not so exactly.
- [11:55]
Michelle Williams
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [11:57]
Nikki Boyer
I love that. Oh, my gosh. You know, I've thought about this so many times and the fact that I get to now share this with you is so cool because, I mean, I knew her inside and out for so many years. I knew her heart, I knew her body. And I have to say, like, this is the part that makes me really emotional because you embodied her so beautifully. Her mannerisms, her expressions, her face, the way her mouth moved, her shoulders, her hands. And I felt like there was something kind of almost spiritual going on because obviously you never met her and there was only so much out there that you could look at, but there was something so magical happening, like you carried her. And I just needed to tell you that it was just such a beautiful thing to witness. And I just loved how much you felt and feel like her to me. I just needed to tell you that.
- [12:56]
Michelle Williams
I will be that for you for the rest of time. Okay. Thank you. That's such a beautiful thing to say. I thank you.
- [13:05]
Nikki Boyer
Where did that come from? Like, there were things you wouldn't have ever known that you were doing. Like, what happened?
- [13:12]
Michelle Williams
I told her that I was completely available to seeing her in my dreams. I think that when you're working on something, I think that life does kind of take on a sort of a mystical quality. And I am open to the energy of that person finding its way to me in whatever form. Flickering transmission, idea, song. I am here for it.
- [13:42]
Nikki Boyer
Wow. And then really the heart, like you said earlier, the heart of the story is the female friendship. And when I think of Molly and Nikki, it's so funny to talk about myself in third person, but I'm so used to it at this point. But I think this show captures something that I haven't seen in a very long time that is just so effortless. Like, oh, yeah, friendship can be a life saving thing. Like it really can. And I want to talk about that chemistry between you and Jenny and how you found those moments that felt so natural. It felt like you had been friends for so long.
- [14:17]
Michelle Williams
Right. Because it's the person that you would drop everything for and they know it you know, the chemistry with Jenny was just so easy from. From day one. It was like a conversation with no beginning and no end. And it continues to feel like that. And I think we also bring to it the experience with our own best friendships, this enduring love that we share with our own best friends that has seen us through decades and just the deep understanding of what that means to have that in your life and to be that for somebody else and feeling that you wouldn't have survived without them.
- [15:00]
Nikki Boyer
Yeah. You know, when I. Liz asked me, Liz Meriwether and Kim Rosenstock would check in on me and say, how does this feel? And I remember just saying, it feels like me and Molly. It feels like us.
- [15:13]
Michelle Williams
But seriously, you never had an orgasm with Steve for 10 years?
- [15:18]
Nikki Boyer
No.
- [15:19]
Michelle Williams
Like, I would get close. Like, you know when it feels like a little sneeze. Like, I don't. I'm not sure. No, no, I haven't felt that. I'd like to try that, but. Yeah. Yeah.
- [15:34]
Nikki Boyer
No.
- [15:35]
Michelle Williams
Oh, my God. I can't with you. You can just, like, always come from sex. I like a good old fashioned chicken vagina. I'm a real penetration Patty.
- [15:44]
Nikki Boyer
Do you remember that moment where it clicked for you and Jenny?
- [15:48]
Michelle Williams
Yeah, I remember on that day that we did the chemistry read, we were wearing the same outfit, accidentally, of course, but we had just chosen.
- [15:54]
Nikki Boyer
Wait, are you kidding me?
- [15:56]
Michelle Williams
Yeah, we were dressed. We looked like the COVID of a 70s record album. Like, all black with cowboy boots and a shearling jacket. And I was like, oh, hello.
- [16:07]
Nikki Boyer
Hello, twin.
- [16:08]
Michelle Williams
Hello. I guess we're already on the same brain waves, but it was magical.
- [16:13]
Nikki Boyer
Let's talk about Sissy Spacek. Because that relationship, the mother daughter dynamic, is so layered and so intense. Did you and Sissy have conversations or discuss any of this beforehand? Like, I'm just. I wonder how you tapped into that magic of conveying that with her so incredibly well.
- [16:34]
Michelle Williams
Well, because she's Sissy Spacek.
- [16:37]
Nikki Boyer
I know.
- [16:37]
Michelle Williams
And she brings with her so much. So much lived experience as a person, a mother, an artist. So much enthusiasm and joy in doing what we do. And as with Jenny, immediately when I met Cissy, I thought, she's my mom or we feel relational to each other. I feel as though I could be from her. She's just. She's an extraordinary artist and she doesn't even have to open her mouth. And she's just sitting inside. So much truth. I wish I could just sit in a chair as profoundly as she does.
- [17:30]
Nikki Boyer
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. And when you two are Sitting next to each other, just sometimes in between takes, and quiet. There were just so many tender moments. But there was such a connection between the two of you. So all of that makes so much sense to me. I loved watching that.
- [17:45]
Michelle Williams
I loved doing it. I loved our. All our big, juicy scenes.
- [17:49]
Nikki Boyer
I know. So one of my juiciest, most favorite scenes is it was one of the toughest moments that I actually had with Molly. Most emotional moments, I would say, is the bathtub scene in the hospital where Molly decides to take her last bath of her life with her mom there. Like, so full circle, right? Mother bathing the daughter. And the amount of emotions and the play of emotions that are coming through on everybody's faces, especially yours, were just so heartbreaking and astounding to me. I just want to know what was that scene like? Was it challenging? What was it like to shoot that?
- [18:32]
Michelle Williams
Oh, that scene.
- [18:34]
Nikki Boyer
I know.
- [18:35]
Michelle Williams
I can understand why you would say that that was one of your most emotional moments with her, because it's also. It mirrors. It's a kind of birth. And to be held as a woman by the mother who held you as a baby, to be held by your best friend and have your body cared for. I can't imagine what that was like. When it happened for real.
- [19:03]
Nikki Boyer
It was very similar. It was, I think, not what she had expected. She pictured this warm, cozy bath just kind of enveloping her and making her feel better. And I think it was more of a struggle than she thought it was. One of the most beautiful things I've ever done in my life was giving her that bath before she passed away. And I was just so happy that you were willing to do that scene and be in that space to do that. It was just amazing.
- [19:34]
Michelle Williams
Oh, thank you for sharing that with us and sharing that moment from your lives and letting it be brought to a life of its own on film. I suppose. You know, what can be so great about what we get to do is that it goes out into the world and you don't know how far, and you don't know where it lands or with whom. But now, this moment from your life, one of your most tender times with your best friend, of which you had so many, now becomes an access point for other people to reflect on, to imagine, to have part of their own healing process. To give something like that of yourself away, to let it go, to give it some wings and trust that it's gonna land where it's needed. Such a beautiful act of generosity.
- [20:51]
Nikki Boyer
Wow.
- [20:52]
Michelle Williams
And I was so honored to be brought into that room thanks for saying that.
- [21:00]
Nikki Boyer
So talk to me about what it was like working with J. Duplass, because what a jerk.
- [21:07]
Michelle Williams
Am I right?
- [21:08]
Nikki Boyer
I mean, come on.
- [21:10]
Michelle Williams
That's what you were gonna say, right?
- [21:12]
Nikki Boyer
Oh, no, I'm glad. I'm glad we both are on the same page about how.
- [21:17]
Michelle Williams
What a terrible person he is.
- [21:21]
Nikki Boyer
Coming up, Michelle on working with J. Duplass. And just in case the joke isn't translating, we love him. Like, a lot.
- [21:33]
Jay Duplass
South of Midnight is a third person action adventure game set in a version of the American Deep south you've never seen before. When a hurricane rifts through Prospero, Hazel is pulled into a magical Southern Gothic world where reality and fantasy are intertwined. Learn the ancient powers of a weaver and face mythical creatures inspired by real folklore as you explore a beautifully handcrafted world featuring a soundtrack inspired by the American South. Unravel the past in south of Midnight. Play now on Xbox Series XS Game Pass. Ultimate and PC and Steam terms apply. See xbox.com subscription terms. Rated M for mature.
- [22:16]
Unknown
In the early hours of December 4, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of midtown Manhattan.
- [22:25]
Nikki Boyer
This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him.
- [22:28]
Unknown
We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world. And the suspect he has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione, became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history.
- [22:41]
Nikki Boyer
I was targeted, premeditated, Admit to sow terror.
- [22:44]
Unknown
I'm Jesse Weber, host of Luigi. Produced by Law and Crime and Twist. This is more than a true crime investigation. We explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever.
- [22:56]
Nikki Boyer
He's awoken the people to a true issue.
- [23:01]
Rob Delaney
Finally, maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our healthcare system.
- [23:07]
Unknown
Listen to Law & Crime's Luigi, exclusively on Wondery. You can join Wondery on the Wondery app, Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
- [23:22]
Nikki Boyer
So everything isn't tears. There's definitely some comedy.
- [23:25]
Michelle Williams
No, there's Jay in this show.
- [23:26]
Nikki Boyer
Which brings me to Jay Duplass, because, God, how did you feel about working with him? He plays Molly's husband in the show and there's some amazing scenes that are just so layered and good. What was it like? Let's question that.
- [23:40]
Michelle Williams
He's a wizard. He's an acting wizard and I have no idea how he casts his spells and it's so frustrating and he won't tell me. I just love that guy. He is so sly and so dear and so warm and so you know, I don't know what's better with J between action and cut or between cut and action. I honestly don't know where I would rather be with him. I'm like, I'd love to be your scene partner, but I also want this scene to be over so we can go back to hanging out.
- [24:15]
Nikki Boyer
Totally.
- [24:16]
Michelle Williams
He's a gem.
- [24:17]
Nikki Boyer
One of my favorite scenes is when Molly attempts to seduce him and give him a blowjob, and he bursts into tears. And it is all so wrong, but so right at the same time. How did the two of you figure out that balance? Because it is such a dance. Oh.
- [24:36]
Michelle Williams
I mean, we were just hanging onto each other for dear life because I had to give him a blowjob, and I had never given a fake blowjob on screen before, and he'd never received a fake blowjob on screen before. And so we were just. We were both. We had nerves about that, for sure. And then when it was over, I was like, well, I guess this is what we'll always have. Like, this weird memories or. But it was okay. And we. We just trust fell into each other and have such camaraderie, and we just found our way. Acting is all about your response to the stimulus that's in front of you, and that's your scene partner. And so we have a responsibility to take care of each other. And I think that was the scene that afterwards we ate so much pizza as another way to take care of each other.
- [25:27]
Nikki Boyer
There you go. Stress.
- [25:28]
Michelle Williams
Ate a giant pie.
- [25:32]
Nikki Boyer
Were there any other scenes with Jay that felt particularly special to you or difficult? Was there anything difficult?
- [25:40]
Michelle Williams
I mean, with Jay, you get the feeling like nothing's going to be difficult. There's going to be problems that you're going to need to solve. And each scene is its own entity with its own needs, wants, desires, and tricky turns. But with Jay, nothing's going to be difficult. It's going to be a pleasure to puzzle through it together.
- [26:02]
Nikki Boyer
Good partner in crime, huh?
- [26:04]
Michelle Williams
God.
- [26:04]
Unknown
Oh, yeah.
- [26:05]
Michelle Williams
We need to find more crimes to commit with Jay.
- [26:08]
Nikki Boyer
Oh, I agree. One of my favorite characters in this whole show is Neighbor Guy, which I think is hilarious that Rob Delaney, being the actor that he is, is playing someone named Neighbor Guy. It's so amazing. He is kind of a combination of a few of the men that were in Molly's life sort of lumped into one, which I love that we did that. And there's such a vulnerability that's required out of him and also, like, a really cool strength. And you have A literal sub dom like relationship over time with him, like, you guys figure out that, you know, you're the dom, he's the sub. And I love that it takes a turn from the sub dom into this really accidental emotional relationship where you actually fall in love. I want to know about your on set experiences with him and working with him in that way. Wow.
- [27:05]
Michelle Williams
I mean, when I heard that Rob was doing the show, I just thought, oh, this is next level. This is who's, like, bringing their ball and bat to the field, and we're gonna be tossing it around. Oh, boy. All right, Michelle, start preparing now. And as with Jay, Rob has complete and utter willingness to go to the known and then into the unknown. Everything you can imagine a scene might be, and then abstract it and find yourself in a place you could not have predicted. And you will find Rob there. Be it the emotional aspects or the comedic aspects, the man is spilling over with ideas, opportunities, offerings. Do you want to try this? Can I give you this? I'm open to doing this. How does that make you feel? And you really have to be prepared because he can go anywhere, and he can make very quick adjustments that change the shape of the game. And, oh, thank God it was Rob.
- [28:16]
Nikki Boyer
The scene that I just love so much is you're kind of taking charge and you realize that you really love shaming him, and he really loves the sexual shaming. And then it turns into you kicking him in the dick. I know it was a very serious scene. Cause you guys were really in it. Like, they weren't laughing during the scene, but I could not stop laughing. How do you root yourself in a scene kicking someone in the dick? How do you stay in that and stay focused on, like, what's really happening there?
- [28:46]
Michelle Williams
Well, some of it is technical, because when it comes time to kick him in the dick, I have a very precise target to hit. So I need to have my wits about me.
- [28:58]
Nikki Boyer
One false move and we're in trouble.
- [29:00]
Michelle Williams
Exactly. So that helps keep one focused when one has a target to hit and it's between somebody's legs. And I think, you know, that scene in particular has so many sharp turns. And so it was kind of like you really had to learn the slope on that one. You're like, ooh, I'm going fast, I'm going downhill. There's slaloms, there's trees, there's other skiers. I need to know this terrain.
- [29:23]
Nikki Boyer
Yeah, you have to know the rules before you can break them in a scene like that. And then the other scene I love is the Elevator scene with Rob where he's eating this taco and there's enough sour cream in it to feed a whole family. And Molly just starts going in and bossing him around. And I can't remember, was that scene fully scripted or did you guys kind of play and find, like. Find that dynamic in the moment?
- [29:46]
Michelle Williams
You know, we always had our scripts to work from, and then there was constant improvisation. When you're with Rob and Jenny, everybody's pitching a joke.
- [29:54]
Nikki Boyer
So it was interesting. I remember being on set at one point, and you guys would do a scene, and then you would do a take two, and then there would be from, you know, from the sidelines, Liz or Kim saying, try this line. Try this line. Had you worked ever like that before where, like, it was just this, like, village of people giving suggestions and comedy and joke writing on the spot?
- [30:17]
Michelle Williams
No, that was new to me.
- [30:19]
Nikki Boyer
It was. Did you like it or was it a little like.
- [30:22]
Michelle Williams
Oh, I loved it. I thought it was really fun. Cause it mostly just happened after you felt like you had sort of completed the scene to the best of your abilities. Then they come in with the alternates. So it just kind of feels like throwing a party at the end of the show.
- [30:35]
Nikki Boyer
That's fun. That's really fun. There is this fascinating arc with your character with Neighbor Guy. Cause initially, you're just in control. You're withholding information. You're not letting him know anything that's going on with you. And then there's the sidewalk scene. It's where you're walking down the sidewalk, and it's the first time that Neighbor Guy sees you sort of outside of the apartment and sees you in the world, and you're not feeling well. Molly's really sick at the time. And you fall, and he realizes that he needs to call 911. And that's when you tell him that you love him. And I was watching from afar, and I was. I was sobbing during that scene, Michelle, because it was so moving. Molly never got that moment that I love you moment. And I just remember feeling very emotionally, like, tied to that scene. And I just. I don't know, I just kind of spiritually felt like, a sense of relief when I watched it, and an emotional relief for me.
- [31:33]
Michelle Williams
Yeah, right. That you can rewrite some endings sometimes and that some aspect of her was being fulfilled in another realm. You know, this is like an imaginative. This is an imagination realm, too. And I'm glad that we could. But you certainly gave her enough love for more than one lifetime.
- [31:58]
Nikki Boyer
So playing Molly, there's so many contradictions in every moment, Right. There's grief, and there's joy and humor and heartbreak, and sometimes they're all colliding in the exact same scene, and sometimes in the same breath.
- [32:11]
Michelle Williams
I'm too young, and it sucks, Okay? I haven't done anything with my life. I actually don't know what I like or what I want. I've never. I've never even had an orgasm with another person. And now I'm gonna die. Good. Molly.
- [32:40]
Unknown
Hey.
- [32:43]
Michelle Williams
We have something for your list. Orgasm with another person.
- [32:53]
Nikki Boyer
How do you hold space for all of that without one emotion overshadowing all the others that are happening?
- [33:00]
Michelle Williams
I think it's so glorious when you can find a piece of material that offers up so much to play with and that it isn't one thing or a straight line. It's very exciting to play with. So many colors. Yeah.
- [33:17]
Nikki Boyer
Was there anything about Molly's sexual journey that you found surprising or shocking?
- [33:22]
Michelle Williams
I mean, the thing that I always think about is just how in the way that you guys would recount her experiences, just there's total lack of judgment, and that's what we need more of. And, like, I would like to preach the gospel of Molly, which is why waste your time judging people?
- [33:40]
Nikki Boyer
Yeah. Yeah.
- [33:42]
Michelle Williams
That's not befitting an only life. You know what I was wondering today? What were people like in your friend circle when Molly announces, hey, guys, this is how I'm gonna live through the end, and I'm gonna go on a sexual journey to find myself. How did people react? Were they shocked? Did they judge? Were they gossipy? Did she have to deal with, like, ramifications of how people.
- [34:12]
Nikki Boyer
That's a good question.
- [34:13]
Michelle Williams
Thought she was behaving?
- [34:15]
Nikki Boyer
I love that. I haven't thought about that in so long. You know, she was one of those people that had really select friends. She had, like, three really good friends. And at first, I thought maybe I was the only one that knew. Right. But then when I started to communicate with these other friends, I realized that we all knew, and I think we all felt kind of the same. Michelle. Like, yeah, this is what she's doing. I think we all had a little tiny bit of worry and concern and, like, a 10% amount of judgment. Like, ooh, is this the right time for this? I think we all just leaned into it. Cause we were like, well, this is what we're doing. But no judgment and no gossip. No secret text messages on the side or any of that. She just owned it, right?
- [34:58]
Michelle Williams
Yeah. I just loved the tone that you guys found of recounting what she was experiencing and going through, but with no shame and no guilt and no negativity. Just pure loving observation that was tuned into the humanity and the hilarity but full of love.
- [35:23]
Nikki Boyer
Yeah. Oh, you just sounded like her.
- [35:26]
Michelle Williams
Oh, my God. Let's have some Molly dreams tonight, shall we?
- [35:29]
Nikki Boyer
She's coming. Well, I just love the care and the big heart and you just cracked yourself open to play Molly and I just. I cannot. I can't thank you enough. I feel like I need to, like, write you the longest love letter to tell you, and I hope somehow that you. You can feel my gratitude and my appreciation to you. Just thank you so much.
- [35:52]
Michelle Williams
You already did by sharing so much with us, the podcast. This experience that we just got to have together doing the podcast fan fangirl dream come true for me and, you know, the love and the cracking wide open, that's the example that you set. And we're following in both of your lead.
- [36:16]
Nikki Boyer
Well, I just adore you. Thank you. You are just in my heart forever. Mwah. All episodes of F S limited series dying for sex are now streaming on Hulu from wondery. This is a special episode of Dying for sex hosted by me, Nikki Boyer. This episode was produced by Rachel Yong. Our senior producer is Laura Donna palavotta. Senior managing producer is Lata Pandya. Managing producer is Heather beloga. Sound design and mixing by Jay Rothman. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for freesome sync. Special thanks to Erin Hart at Wondry. Dying for sex clips courtesy of FX and Hulu. Executive producers are Stephanie Jens Marshall, Louie and Jen Sargent for wondry.
- [37:16]
Unknown
In the early hours of December 4, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the street streets of midtown Manhattan.
- [37:24]
Nikki Boyer
This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him.
- [37:27]
Unknown
We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world and the suspect he has been identified as Luigi. Nicholas Mangione became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history.
- [37:40]
Nikki Boyer
I was targeted, premeditated, admit to sow terror.
- [37:43]
Unknown
I'm Jesse Weber, host of Luigi. Produced by law and crime and twist. This is more than a true crime investigation. We explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever.
- [37:55]
Nikki Boyer
He's awoken the people to a true issue.
- [38:00]
Rob Delaney
Finally, maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our healthcare system.
- [38:07]
Unknown
Listen to Law & Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery plus in the Wondery app Spotify or Apple podcasts.