A Little Streets, a Little Romance, a Little Deception

Summary

Ear Hustle – Episode: "A Little Streets, a Little Romance, a Little Deception"

Release Date: September 18, 2024

Hosts: Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods
Produced by: Ear Hustle & Radiotopia

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1. Introduction: Engaging the Audience for Future Stories

The episode opens with Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods discussing their excitement for the upcoming season. They reveal a new twist to their storytelling approach, inviting listeners to contribute story ideas that could shape future episodes.

Earlonne Woods [00:00]: "We are cooking up something really fun for next season, and we need your help."

Nigel Poor [00:32]: "Is there a story you've always wanted to hear on Ear Hustle? A topic you wished one of us would explore? Well, here's your chance to shape an upcoming episode."

Listeners are encouraged to email their ideas by January 15th, with the opportunity to participate as a co-host in recording sessions.

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2. The Significance of Reading in Prison

Nigel and Earlonne delve into the pivotal role that books play in the lives of incarcerated individuals. They emphasize how reading offers an escape, mental stimulation, and a way to cope with the confined and often chaotic environment of prison life.

Earlonne Woods [00:28]: "This season, we're adding a twist, and that's where you come in."

Nigel Poor [03:32]: "Books take you out of the present moment. They really let you travel out of your present experience."

The hosts highlight that despite advancements like TVs, radios, and tablets, books remain a fundamental source of solace and education within prisons.

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3. Shaka's Journey on Death Row

One of the episode's focal points is Shaka, who spent over four decades on death row at San Quentin. His narrative provides a deep dive into how reading influenced his state of mind and perception of the world.

Key Points:

• Isolation and Resistance: Shaka discusses the challenges of being housed with individuals he harbored negative thoughts about.

Shaka [02:10]: "Some people shouldn't be allowed to walk around in society. ... the cage is definitely the answer."

• Books as Salvation: He recounts how books became his refuge, helping elevate his mental state amidst confinement.

Shaka [05:29]: "New Dimension in African History helped me in my journey and search for my religious beliefs. It just captivated my attention."

• Impactful Reads: Shaka reflects on his first book, The Bitch, a gritty urban novel that captured his attention and set the stage for his extensive reading journey.

Shaka [05:29]: "The Bitch, that was the first book I read."

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4. Elisa's Role as a Prison Librarian

Elisa, the library coordinator at the California Institution for Women in Chino, shares her passion for reading and her efforts to create a vibrant lending library focused on urban fiction.

Highlights:

• Extensive Reading: Elisa boasts an impressive reading record, having devoured over 80 books in three years.

Elisa [11:46]: "I have at least 80 books that I've read in, I want to say, three years."

• Curating Urban Fiction: She emphasizes the popularity of urban novels among incarcerated women, noting their themes of struggle, resilience, and street life.

Elisa [14:18]: "Pretty much all of the books in her lending library are urban fiction books."

• Interactive Library Space: Elisa describes her library space adorned with handmade paper butterflies, creating a peaceful and inviting atmosphere for fellow inmates.

Elisa [13:38]: "This is where my piece is, you know, this is where. This is my safe haven."

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5. Tommy's Engagement with Literature

Tommy, an inmate at Crossroad Juvenile Center in Brooklyn, discusses his relationship with books, particularly urban fiction and the controversial Fifty Shades of Grey series.

Key Insights:

• Favorite Reads: Tommy is engrossed in War by T. Stiles and Fifty Shades of Grey, appreciating the suspense and complexity of these narratives.

Tommy [22:09]: "It's a very, very weird book. ... Nothing but the book. I don't give a about nothing else but this book."

• Reading as Coping: Through literature, Tommy finds a means to occupy his time and escape the monotony of confinement.

Tommy [21:36]: "I could just sing songs as if I'm on the radio. Just hear it so I could hear it in my head."

• Mixed Reactions to Content: He critiques Fifty Shades of Grey for its excessive sexual content, while recognizing its popularity within the prison.

Tommy [51:54]: "There's a lot of sex scenes in that book. Like, it's over extensive, like, for no reason."

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6. Claudia's Transformation Through Reading

Claudia shares a poignant account of how a single book, Enemies by Hakeem Abuti, catalyzed her personal transformation, steering her away from a path of violence and towards self-improvement and intellectual growth.

Transformation Highlights:

• Breaking Away from Gang Culture: Initially intent on getting gang-related tattoos to signify her disdain for society, Claudia's perspective shifts dramatically after engaging with Enemies.

Claudia [42:32]: "Love the world, I go opposite."

• Intellectual Awakening: The book opened her eyes to broader societal issues, fostering a newfound appreciation for black history, philosophy, and self-love.

Claudia [46:15]: "Books just opened me up to another world. It was just like, wow. There's a lot that's going on with the human being, right. That we don't know."

• Spiritual and Personal Growth: Claudia credits not only the book but also divine intervention and supportive individuals for her profound change.

Claudia [48:42]: "So everybody played their part, first and foremost. God intervened."

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7. Library Requests Across Various Prisons

The episode features a compilation of library staff from different correctional facilities sharing the most requested and popular books among inmates. This segment underscores the diversity of reading preferences and the universal need for literature as a source of comfort and knowledge.

Notable Requests:

• Fantasy and Urban Fiction: Titles like Naruto, Shogun by James Clavell, and The Red Rising series by Pierce Brown are highly sought after.

• Self-Help and Legal Guides: Inmates express interest in books like the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, We the People Legal Primer, and entrepreneurship guides.

• Graphic Novels and Classics: Graphic novels, The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, and other classics are also in high demand.

Claudia [35:34]: "Shogun by James Clavell, Santaram by Gregory David Roberts, Swan song by Robert McCammon, and the Red Rising series by Pierce Brown."

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8. Conclusion: The Multifaceted Role of Reading in Prison

Nigel and Earlonne wrap up the episode by reflecting on the varied reading materials enjoyed by inmates, from gritty urban novels to philosophical texts and romantic series. They emphasize that books serve multiple purposes—entertainment, escape, education, and catalysts for personal growth.

Earlonne Woods [53:03]: "It's an escape. ... People in prison are reading all kinds of stuff, right? The good, the bad, the high, the low."

Nigel Poor [53:36]: "That's a great note to go out on."

The episode concludes with a reminder of the enduring importance of books in creating meaningful and transformative experiences within the prison environment.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Shaka on Society Separation [02:32]: "Some people shouldn't be allowed to walk around in society. ... the cage is definitely the answer."

• Claudia on Book Transformation [42:32]: "Love the world, I go opposite."

• Earlonne on Reading Impact [53:03]: "It's an escape."

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For more insights and stories from within the prison system, visit earhustlesq.com and follow Ear Hustle on social media platforms like Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube @EarhustleSQ.

Transcript

[Earlonne Woods]

Hey, listeners. We are cooking up something really fun for next season, and we need your help.

[Nigel Poor]

You might remember that for the last couple seasons, Earlonne and I have been producing mystery episodes.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's when me and Nige each come up with a story idea. And we work on it in secret until we reveal it to each other in the studio when we're recording narration.

[Nigel Poor]

And I love doing these. It's so much fun to surprise each other, and it gives us the opportunity to each explore a subject that intrigues us.

[Earlonne Woods]

This season, we're adding a twist, and that's where you come in.

[Nigel Poor]

Is there a story you've always wanted to hear on Ear Hustle? A topic you wished one of us would explore? Well, here's your chance to shape an upcoming episode.

[Earlonne Woods]

All you gotta do is email us an idea. It could be something really specific, like you wanna hear a story about someone who had to lose a lot of weight in prison.

[Nigel Poor]

Or it can be more abstract, like, what do people think about when they first wake up in prison? Maybe even on their first day in prison. And remember, it's a story idea for Earlonne and a story idea for me. So different ideas.

[Earlonne Woods]

If your idea is selected, you will be invited to join us via Zoom and be the third host when we record narration in the studio.

[Nigel Poor]

This is going to be great. And it's also going to give us a chance to do something really meaningful with our listeners.

[Earlonne Woods]

So send your idea to inforearhustlesq.com and the deadline is January 15th.

[Nigel Poor]

That's infoearhustlesq.com by January 15th. And I cannot wait to find out what my story idea is gonna be.

[Earlonne Woods]

I know what I'm gonna give.

[Nigel Poor]

No, you don't.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's gonna be gang related.

[Shaka]

Why?

[Nigel Poor]

Shh. No hands.

[Shaka]

Good evening, everybody.

[Nate]

I'm Nate.

[Nigel Poor]

Query from the Decemberists.

[Nate]

The following episode of Ear Hustle contains language and content that may not be.

[Nigel Poor]

Appropriate for all listeners.

[Nate]

Discretion.

[Shaka]

Some people shouldn't be allowed to walk around in society. No matter how old they get, they gonna always be looking for somebody to victimize. So maybe the death penalty is not the answer, but the cage is definitely the answer.

[Nigel Poor]

So you do think there's people that need to be separated from society.

[Shaka]

Knocked away.

[Earlonne Woods]

This is Shaka. He spent over 40 years on death row at San Quentin.

[Nigel Poor]

How did you feel being housed with people that you had those thoughts about? I know you said you lived amongst that for 40 years, which is where.

[Shaka]

The books come in, because, you know, I spent my time trying to elevate my State of mind instead of worried about the people that I live next door to.

[Nigel Poor]

You know, in a place like death row, where life is, like, confined and diminished, but also chaotic in, like, people never leave their cells. And I can imagine living like that. Books are absolutely essential. I mean, they take you out of the present moment. And I know it's corny. They really let you travel out of your present experience.

[Earlonne Woods]

Not just death row, but just regular prison, too. You know, books have always been a big part of prison life because before they had the TVs, the radios, and the tablets, books were all you had.

[Nigel Poor]

And even now, there are a lot of books in prison. I mean, just go out to the yard and ask people what they're reading.

[Tommy]

When I hit Wasco, it was the first time I read the Game of Thrones series. All five books in a week.

[Nigel Poor]

Right now I'm reading about institutional incarceration.

[Ms. Guidry]

I am big into fantasy and sci fi.

[Nigel Poor]

Fantasy is my thing. I stuck on the JL Fury. That's a really good series that I just can't put down. Are you reading a book right now? I am. And what is it?

[Claudia]

The body keeps score. Just talking about the stuff that happens to us. Like, our body absorbs that negative energy, Trauma and stuff like that.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you have any guilty pleasure reads?

[Chelsea]

It's kind of a weird thing, but I love to read research journals.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, right. A lot of people are like, what's your guilty pleasure?

[Claudia]

Yes.

[Nigel Poor]

What book are you reading right now? I am reading James Patterson. He's very popular. Why is he so popular, do you think? Because he writes good books.

[Earlonne Woods]

Today on the show, the subject our listeners always ask us about, be it through letters, postcards, social media, People are always asking us about this books in prison. I'm Earlonne Woods.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm Nigel Poor. And this is ear hustle from PRX's Radiotopia.

[Earlonne Woods]

So back to Shaka, who spent more than 40 years on death row.

[Nigel Poor]

One day he was in his cell and he heard these guys a couple cells down talking about a book, a book about African history.

[Shaka]

One told me that I could get this book from the library. So he gave me the name of this book. I don't remember offhand. I put in a request to the library. But at that time, when you put in for a book and they didn't have the particular book that you wanted, they would send you substitutes. And they sent these three books. The Bitch. That was the first book I read.

[Nigel Poor]

The Bitch, yes. I don't know that book. What's that about?

[Shaka]

It's Pimps, drugs and the Hustle to be. I don't like to say. That's okay.

[Nigel Poor]

It's the name of the book.

[Shaka]

I found myself up at 2 o'clock in the morning reading this book.

[Nate]

Women positively adored Nicole Constantine. And he in his turn was certainly not averse to them. From a cocktail waitress to a princess, he treated them all the same. Flowers, always red roses, champagne, always Cristal presents, Small gold charms from Tiffany in New York, or if they lasted more than a few weeks, little diamond trinkets from Cartier.

[Earlonne Woods]

So that's the first book. The bitch.

[Shaka]

The second New Dimension in African History.

[Nate]

Africa cannot be spoken of in terms of Adam and Eve, because long before they had an Adam and Eve, there was an Africa and African people with concepts that predated Abraham. All of the pyramids of Africa, not only those in Egypt, but those in Sudan and the two in northern Ethiopia, were built thousands of years before there was an Adam and Eve mentioned anywhere on the planet.

[Shaka]

New Dimension in African History helped me in my journey and search for my religious beliefs. It just captivated my attention. The third one was Alibaba and the 40 thieves.

[Nate]

Pushing through the shrubs, he spotted the door which was hidden behind them. And going up to it he said, open sesame. Immediately the door opened wide. He had expected to see a place of darkness and gloomy and was surprised to find a vast and spacious man made chamber full of light, with a high vaulted ceiling into which daylight poured through an opening in the top of the rock. There he saw great quantities of foodstuffs and bales of rich merchandise all piled up. There were silks and brocades, priceless carpets, and above all, gold and coins in heaps or heaped up in sacks or in large leather bags that were piled one on top of the other.

[Shaka]

The funny thing about that is that I live next door to the shower, right? And there was two showers and between the two showers they had a gate. And they would lock this gate every night. One night, 11:30, they do a security check. The officer would come and try to open this gate and he couldn't open. So the next night I'm laying there and I'm thinking to myself, it's like 11:30 and I'm normally trying to sleep. So he making too much noise. So as he opening the gate, I said, open sez of me. And the damn gate opened. It opened. And so every night I found myself saying, open sesame. And it would open and it would open. So one night I said, I'm not gonna say nothing. The Officer, he was a rookie, right? He said 88. He didn't know my name. He said 88, can we get a little assistance here? I said open sesame in the damn block.

[Nigel Poor]

What did he call you? Was that your cell number?

[Shaka]

Yeah, I was in cell 88. He didn't know my name.

[Claudia]

L88.

[Nigel Poor]

Let me ask you this. Out of those three books, which book did you read First To Be.

[Shaka]

And I tell you, this book was the first book ever that I read from COVID to cover.

[Earlonne Woods]

So do you read a lot of books here?

[Elisa]

I do read a lot of books.

[Earlonne Woods]

What are you reading currently?

[Elisa]

Be honest. I read black cultural books, Black urban books. I lead. I read a lot of urban books. Just because it takes my mind out of prison. I'm a new lifer, so it's just sitting in my soul that I am a lifer. So that's what I do to stay out of prison in my mind.

[Nigel Poor]

This is Ms. Guidry, and just so you know, her voice sounds like that because she had a tracheostomy. We met her in a day room at the California Institution for Women in Chino, California.

[Elisa]

I have at least 80 books that I've read in, I want to say, three years.

[Earlonne Woods]

Okay. Real active.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. Do you hold on to them or do you.

[Elisa]

I do. I read them over. When they're good, I'll read them again. Because you always miss something. It's like a movie. You always miss something. So when you go back, you're like, oh, I didn't remember that.

[Nigel Poor]

Is your room near here?

[Elisa]

My room is here, which.

[Nigel Poor]

And you have all your books in there?

[Elisa]

Yes.

[Nigel Poor]

Can we go see them and you can show us your library? Yes. Okay, we're gonna follow you all. We're following our new friend to her room so we can see her library of books. Can we come in?

[Elisa]

Sure. Let me just.

[Nigel Poor]

Hey, Earlyn, do you remember what Ms. Guitry's room looked like?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes. For some reason, I just remember. All white.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. It was because it was super orderly and peaceful.

[Earlonne Woods]

And on her walls, she had pasted all these little handmade paper butterflies. Colorful.

[Nigel Poor]

Very colorful. When you walk in here, it's very clean, and you have a beautiful afghan on your bed that's very peaceful. Your book is laid on the pillow like it's set up for you to come and read it.

[Elisa]

Yes.

[Nigel Poor]

But then everywhere there are butterflies. I was trying to count them. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. There's at least 22 butterflies in here that are sparkly and pink and purple and gold and they just feel very uplifting. And they're all moving up. Yeah, they're all moving up. So that seems very intentional.

[Elisa]

This is where my piece is, you know, this is where. This is my safe haven.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, my goodness. She's pulling her books out.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ms. Guidry reached down under her bed and pulled out a box of books.

[Nigel Poor]

And it was one of those plastic bins, but the top couldn't stay on it cause it was so overflowing with books. This was her lending library for other incarcerated women.

[Elisa]

There's a lot of books that I loan to the kids. They come to me and they be like, Ms. Guidry, do you have books? And I say, sure. And they go through this box and they find they calling right here. This is where they come. Instead of going to the library, they.

[Nigel Poor]

Come to me and you lend them and they bring them back.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm just curious, do you have any discussions about the book before they take them?

[Elisa]

So I do. So they be like, Ms. Guidry, which book is gonna keep me turning the page? Not Nicole. You can read this. The Hustler's Wife or here's Black Friday. Well, this right here is a two part book and it's about a bride that's like a pit bull. She's a gangster. So when I give them a little, you know, a little bit, they're like, okay, I'll read that or something. Say, you know what, let's try something else. So they have options.

[Nigel Poor]

Pretty much all of the books in her lending library are urban fiction books.

[Earlonne Woods]

The books about the ghettos, the pimps, the hustlers, the shoot em up, bang bang, the hood life.

[Elisa]

It's always romance in the hood book. You gonna always get that. You gonna get little streets, a little romance, a little cheating.

[Earlonne Woods]

Deception.

[Elisa]

Yeah, deception. You gonna get lots of money. You gonna lose lots of money. Might even lose your life. But I'm just saying it's entertaining.

[Nigel Poor]

She makes those books sound fun, like a little guilty pleasure read.

[Earlonne Woods]

I think it is. You know, I think a lot of people love to read things that they can identify with. And you know, hood books in prison. I ain't gonna lie. That's all I seen being passed around like it wasn't Socrates or whoever. It was literally death, sex, violence.

[Nigel Poor]

Mm. It sells hood looks. Do you remember the first book you read when you came to prison?

[Earlonne Woods]

The first book I read was.

[Nigel Poor]

It was a hood book.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's called Ethics Ethic Books.

[Nigel Poor]

Can you tell us anything you remember about it. Just hustling normal stuff on the streets. Okay.

[Earlonne Woods]

How do the hood books make you feel? It made me feel like I'm back at home.

[Nigel Poor]

That's why I had to put it down, because it made me feel like I'm too much at home, like I.

[Earlonne Woods]

Want to be out there, you know?

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, so I have to put them down.

[Chelsea]

I don't read hood books.

[Earlonne Woods]

And why. Why is that?

[Nigel Poor]

Well, I mean, we live it damn near every day.

[Chelsea]

You know, they just amp it up times 10 or 20, you know, but we live it every day, all of.

[Nigel Poor]

Us, one way or another. I mean, we've experienced it.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, I definitely felt that way. I couldn't do it. Yeah, I think I probably read one or two in my. In my life.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know, maybe if it was autobiography. Yeah. But not just an urban novel. No.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

I used to read a ton of urban novels. I think it's the best hood book that you could probably read. It's a hood book called Dutch. Now the thing that interests me most is learning more about the Bible.

[Nigel Poor]

Would you ever sneak back and read an urban fiction just for fun?

[Claudia]

No, because it's ridiculous now. Like, this guy wants to be a drug kingpin, and if you've watched Scarface, you've read every hood book that you can read, so.

[Nate]

No.

[Earlonne Woods]

So back in Ms. Guidry's cell, we asked her to pick out a book that you and I might like.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, so you don't know either of us, but could you pick a book that you would suggest for me and for Earlonne and tell us why, what we would like about it?

[Elisa]

Okay, so I'm gonna go here. Nikki Turner is a very good artist. The reason why I think this would be a good, like, your first book is because it never gets boring. And she ends up being a hustler's wife. But she stuck by him, and so he ended up going to jail, and she stuck by him. And she was going to be a lawyer so that she can learn the laws and get him out. So this is what a real hustler's wife do. She gonna go for back for a man. She gonna go all the way, do it all.

[Earlonne Woods]

So in that book, honey ain't gone when the money gone.

[Elisa]

Honey ain't gone when the money gone. She sticks around. She sticks around.

[Nate]

Yarnie sat stunned on the cold mahogany courtroom bench. She couldn't believe the verdict of guilty. The high profile court case of her notorious kingpin boyfriend, dez, ended in the worst possible outcome. After seeing the expression of defeat and Frustration on Dez's face. Yarnie broke down in tears as numbness ran through her entire body. Her mind raced frantically as she reflected on what seemed like her life crumbling in front of her eyes.

[Elisa]

Urban novels are relatable to me. I'm be honest with you. The lifestyle is all I know. The things we do to survive without even thinking consciously that there's another way to maintain the money, the finances, the houses, the cars, all that when you born with it, you don't have the insight to go do something different because it's all you know, it's always been around you. And that lifestyle inevitably leaves you to where there are death. Three places. There's death, there's, there's institutions and there's mental institutions because it'll drive you crazy.

[Earlonne Woods]

So when you going to write your hood book?

[Elisa]

I don't want to. No, I don't want to relive it.

[Earlonne Woods]

Got you.

[Elisa]

You understand? I just don't. I just want to find some new chapter in my life and do something and talk about something and be something. I never.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, then I gotta push you on this. You don't want to write your own because you don't want to relive it. Why do you keep reading those books?

[Elisa]

Because it's entertaining, it was fun. I mean it was hard and it was cold blooded and it was rough but it was fun. Even in the book eventually they clean up or they die. It's just, that's how it is. Either you gonna get your life together and live normal, try to, or you gonna continue to use and somebody gon kill you. You going to die or you going to go crazy or you're going to be in jail.

[Tommy]

They want you to be at your door. Let me out, let me out. So they can sit there and laugh at you. No, I'm going to sit here and we're going to both be petty because I'm not going to ask you for nothing. I'm going to sit here, I'm going to read a book.

[Earlonne Woods]

This is Tommy. He's incarcerated at the Crossroad Juvenile center in Brooklyn.

[Nigel Poor]

We've been spending a lot of time there recently because we're working on a long term project that listeners will hear eventually.

[Earlonne Woods]

Tommy was telling us about this one time when he'd been getting in trouble and had to stay in this room for a long time with very little to do.

[Nigel Poor]

And just to warn people sometimes Tommy's hard to understand. Earlonne. I mean teenagers, right, right. It's a real challenge with this project.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, you really gotta lean in with these. These kids. Anyway, we were wondering, what was it like for Tommy to be stuck in this room with nothing to do?

[Nigel Poor]

Was that really tough?

[Tommy]

I mean, it could have been worse if I didn't have books and other dumb shit, like, could have been worse. But I had a lot of stuff to keep myself occupied. Word searches, a lot of lyrics. I could just sing songs as if I'm on the radio. Just hear it so I could hear it in my head.

[Earlonne Woods]

Tommy's stuck in there. He's got his word searches going. He's trying to recite every lyric that he can remember to a song. But he also has this series of books.

[Nigel Poor]

Yes, a series called War by T. Stiles.

[Earlonne Woods]

And I believe T. Stiles is known as the Urban Fiction Empress.

[Nigel Poor]

What a title.

[Tommy]

It's a very, very weird, weird book. Two friends, they grew up, right. One friend was the son of a crack lord. The other friend, he didn't have nothing. His pops working at a restaurant, Barely McCann's Meat. They don't got nothing. They've been friends since young. They've been growing up. But he's come home from school with his friend. He's like, what the hell is she looking at that she's fiddling on herself. He sees his. His friend's son's father cleaning his car. Just clean his car. He got all his chains on.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, my God. Earlonne. I know we said teenagers are a challenge. I mean, a lot of times their answers are like one word. But when we asked Tommy to describe.

[Earlonne Woods]

This book, the floodgates open.

[Tommy]

When they father died, everything went downhill for them. They sleep in the bottom of basements. They don't got no clothes, they haven't took no shower. One of them got mad fat. The other one.

[Nigel Poor]

Fuck.

[Nate]

He said, as he always did the moment he got home and was reminded about how poorly he lived. Rob Bass, It Takes Two blasted from a small radio by the window, which let him know that someone was home. Before walking further inside, he stood at the door and took in the terror of his life. The refrigerator was empty, the TV was broken, and people took him as a joke in the neighborhood. At the end of the day, he wanted more and didn't see a way to make it happen without knocking somebody over their head. Something had to give, and it had to give soon.

[Tommy]

Long hair, no shape up, nothing, and all that. So now they thinking of a way to get back to everything.

[Claudia]

Boom.

[Tommy]

Now, even throughout that whole war, Miguel and Tay still always had a thing for each other. Like, always had a Thing for each other.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. We're going to come back to Tommy a little later.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, I think he's going to be talking about that book for a while.

[Nigel Poor]

In the meantime, there's another book that we've been hearing about in prison.

[Nate]

Christian sets me on my feet on the wooden floor. I don't have time to examine my surroundings. My eyes can't leave him. I'm mesmerized, watching him like one would watch a rare and dangerous predator, waiting for him to strike. His breathing is harsh, but then he's just carried me across the lawn and up a flight of stairs. Gray eyes blaze with anger, need, and pure, unadulterated lust. Holy shit. I could spontaneously combust from his look alone.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you have any guilty pleasure reads? Yeah, like what? I love everything that a drunken housewife would read. Like. Did you read 50 Shades of Gray? No, I never read that because it seemed really cheesy. Never read it either. Jamie, come have a seat. Can I answer some questions? Oh, my God. Have a seat. Do you have any guilty pleasure reads?

[J]

Like you would cover the.

[Nigel Poor]

Put something over the COVID so no one sees you reading it?

[Earlonne Woods]

No, I have no shame on what books I read. I could be reading Fifty Shades of Grade. I will not be ashamed.

[Nigel Poor]

We're just talking about. You brought that up. Have you read it?

[Claudia]

Yes, I have.

[Nigel Poor]

Neither Tony nor I have read it. Should we read it? What? You guys haven't read it? Not like the movie. It's very good.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's a good book to read.

[Nigel Poor]

Tony, I think we're missing out. Have you read 50 Shades of Gray? Oh, yeah, I read all. All three of them. All three of them.

[Chelsea]

I read them in three days.

[Nigel Poor]

So, yeah, read the whole series.

[Chelsea]

It's more than what everyone is presenting because there's a backstory and it's a love story. I think it's good.

[Nigel Poor]

I think it's good. Earlonne. Have you ever read Fifty Shades of Grey?

[Earlonne Woods]

No, I never read it, but I did watch the movie.

[Nigel Poor]

How's the movie?

[Earlonne Woods]

The movie was very, very sexual. Very provocative. Interesting. What about you, Nigel?

[Nigel Poor]

I did read it for this episode, you know, each of us were assigned a book to read, and I got 50 shades.

[Earlonne Woods]

Okay. Indeed.

[Nigel Poor]

And I had it by my desk and my son was visiting. He picked it up. He's like, are you reading this book? I was like, yep. For work.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. He probably raised his eyebrows at you.

[Nigel Poor]

Nice. All right. So should we check in on Tommy?

[Earlonne Woods]

I bet Tommy is still reciting that five years later.

[Tommy]

Passed. The girl's still with him cause she's still with him because she really realized that he really loved her. He was trying to sell free.

[Nigel Poor]

Woo.

[Tommy]

Five years now they in the mansion. Now they big time. Now they got the drugs flowing. Everybody, everybody eating.

[Earlonne Woods]

We're gonna take quick break. When we get back, Tommy will still.

[Nigel Poor]

Be at it, no doubt.

[Tommy]

So now one day they set up a meeting. They play basketball, we get each other. They squash all beef. He said, let me just tell me where my father's at and I'm going to tell you where your girlfriend's at. Because they never knew where he was.

[Earlonne Woods]

Happy January, Naj.

[Nigel Poor]

What? You can't say Happy New Year. Yeah, we supposed to say Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you. Rahsaan, New York. Thomas thank you. I am super excited to tell you listeners about Radiotopia's newest show, Hyperfixed.

[Claudia]

Hosted by former Reply all co host Alex Goldman. Hyperfix is a podcast where you, the.

[Earlonne Woods]

Listener, write in with your problems and Alex solves them. He tackles everything from the origin of a mysterious button to whether a listener should have kids or not.

[Nigel Poor]

This gets pretty personal.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's crazy. That's such a big decision.

[Nigel Poor]

Also, what is this button? Is he talking about like buttons on your shirt? Or is it a very specific button somewhere? Benjamin Button?

[Earlonne Woods]

I don't.

[Nigel Poor]

Each episode of Hyperfixed attempts not only to solve listeners problems, but exposes the hidden systems that caused those problems in the first place. Alex is kind of obsessed with solving your problems and he will go to absurd lengths to try and resolve them.

[Claudia]

Help us welcome the newest show to the Radiotopia family.

[Earlonne Woods]

Find Hyperfix on your favorite podcast platform.

[Elisa]

Now.

[Nigel Poor]

Listeners, do you want even more.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ear Hustle and even fewer ads like zero, zilch, nothing, Nada?

[Nigel Poor]

If so, subscribe to Ear Hustle Plus.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ear Hustle plus subscribers get access to ad free episodes and bonus episodes.

[Nigel Poor]

Our Ear Hustle plus episodes are really fun. Subscribers can find out what's happening with people they've heard on previous episodes and they can also send in questions for us to answer.

[Earlonne Woods]

And me and Nigel get to sit here and chop it up with our producer Bruce and just talk about whatever.

[Nigel Poor]

If you want to hear more of that, subscribe to ear [e-mail] or directly in Apple Podcasts.

[Earlonne Woods]

And thanks for supporting the show. We appreciate y'all. And send in some provocative questions.

[Nigel Poor]

Spicy questions.

[Nate]

Halfway along the road of this, our life, I woke to find myself in a wood so dark that straight and honest ways were gone and light was lost. Oh how hard to tell the harsh horror of that wild and brutal forest. The very thought brings back a fear so stark that bitter death itself seems not much worse. But let me tell the rest of what I met with. So the good I found is well and truly rehearsed.

[Earlonne Woods]

We're on.

[Claudia]

We're on a quest.

[Nigel Poor]

We are on a quest. A Dante quest. Okay, so we are in one of the housing units, and I think we're gonna go left up here to find the yard. I think the yard's this way. Oh, okay.

[Earlonne Woods]

So this was at ciw. We were trying to find a woman named Chelsea who was apparently a fan of Dunte's Divine Comedy.

[Nigel Poor]

Right. And we had heard that from her bunkie. And when we finally found Chelsea, she was in the middle of working out.

[Claudia]

Do you have time?

[Earlonne Woods]

Who were you working out to?

[Chelsea]

I was working out to Friday night. Club Mix.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. Do you mind talking for a few minutes, or is it too irritating because you want to keep sweating?

[Chelsea]

Yeah, no, it's fine.

[Elisa]

I'll talk.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. So your bunky told us that you're reading Dante.

[Chelsea]

Yes, Dante. I'm reading the Divine Comedy by Dante. It's a little fantastical. Like, you know, they're eating each other and all the crazy, crazy things. The dark wood and all that. I mean, like, it's really a work of art, that book.

[Nigel Poor]

Is it hard to read?

[Chelsea]

Kind of. I have a. My family is great. They sent me the three books. And then they also sent me, like, a book with a synopsis and detailed notes. So I'm kind of, like, working my way through it.

[Nate]

It is through me you come to the city of sorrow. It is through me you wrack eternal sadness. It is through me you join the forever lost. Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you think that you've ever experienced hell?

[Chelsea]

Absolutely. Yeah. I was a drug addict for a really long time, and I experienced my own type of. Of slavery, my own type of hell, through that experience. I think that hell is reserved for people who don't want to change. They stay in hell because they don't want to change. Purgatory is a place for people who want to change and go to heaven. I think this existence that we have on this plane is kind of like our purgatory. As soon as you come to your come to God moment, you kind of like, have to atone for the things that you've done. And I relate to that. Being in prison, it kind of is like my purgatory for what I've done. And so I'm Kind of like atoning for that, working on myself, making myself a better person. And then hopefully I'll reach the Paradiso.

[Nate]

Those holiest of waters returned me to life, Recovered like new trees which quickly grow New branches and new leaves. I'd been purified, ready to rise where sanctified souls can go.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you think that hell and heaven literally exist?

[Chelsea]

That's a tough one. I mean, I've never been there. I really don't know. In a non literal sense, you can experience heaven when you eat a cheesecake and you haven't had one in like five years, you know, I imagine that's going to be my heaven when I get out of here, you know?

[Ms. Guidry]

Hey, this is Claudia calling from the Utah State Correctional Facility. You wanted to know some of our top requested books. Well, I'm going to start with Terry Goodkind, but the series is sort of Truth. So any book in that series? Then we have Robert Jordan's Will of Time. Any book in that series. The third is Brandon Sanderson with the Mistborn series, then Swan song by Robert McCammon, and of course, the Bible. Thank you and have a great day. Bye. Hello, my name is Deb Kyle. I work for the Washington State Library at Twin Rivers Correctional Unit. And some of our most requested books are the Merriam Webster Dictionary, Bleach by Taito Kubo, the Dungeon Master's Guide by James Wyatt, how to build you'd own tiny House by Roger Marshall, and the Riyria Chronicles by Michael J. Sullivan. Thanks a bunch. Hi, my name is Jenny Rogers. I work for the Alameda County Library for our library services program at the Santa Rita Jail. Some of the most popular requests right now are Shogun by James Clavel, Santaram by Gregory David Roberts, Swan song by Robert McCammon, and the Red Rising series by Pierce Brown.

[Earlonne Woods]

Thank you.

[Ms. Guidry]

Hi, my name is Melody Kenneman and I work for Johnson County Library System in the Kansas City metro area. And our incarcerated patrons can't get enough of SA Cosby. Razor Blade Tears, Blacktop Wasteland, all the sinners Bleed. They love Them. Thank you. Hi, this is Allie with the Prisoners Literature Project located in Berkeley, California. We send books to incarcerated people across the US Including Puerto Rico. Some of our most frequently requested titles include the Webster's Dictionary and Thesaurus, the we the People Legal Primer, fantasy novels.

[Chelsea]

Like the Song of Ice and Fire.

[Ms. Guidry]

Series or the Wheel of Time series. My name is Taliba Chikwandu. I work at the Maryland Correctional Institution at Jessup. And some of our most requested authors are James Patterson and David Baldacci. We also have a lot of interest in self help titles and entrepreneurship. Good morning.

[Nigel Poor]

My name is Renee Welsh.

[Ms. Guidry]

I'm calling from the Books to Prison Program in Birmingham, Alabama, a nonprofit that services Alabama and Texas. The top authors requested are Stephen King, John Grisham, Max Lucado, David Baldacci and William Johnstone.

[Nigel Poor]

My name is Charlotte Sanders and I'm a librarian at San Quentin. A lot of graphic novels. We've got a lot of armchair travelers. So the Lonely Planet books are really big urbans, of course, and their titles always make my day. Never Trust a Ratchet Bee was my favorite recent one. A lot of classics too, like the Gulag Archipelago. Because when else are you going to read Anna Karenina or War and Peace? What surprised me the most was when we had death row here and all the serial killers really liked light, frothy, tea cozy mysteries like Janet Ivanovich and Sue Grafton. I always wondered, who do they relate to in those books?

[Ms. Guidry]

This is Kelsey Jordan Makely. I'm a librarian who provides library services in Western math at the Franklin County Jail. Our top books and requests are for Naruto, 48 laws of power, books about dreams and dream interpretation, urban fiction, and of course, a lot of James Patterson and Stephen King. You never know, though. Last week we got a request for Freckle Juice by Judy Blum.

[Nigel Poor]

You look so comfortable in here. Do you spend a lot of time in here?

[J]

As much as I can.

[Nigel Poor]

You're sitting on the floor like you're on a little lily pad or something.

[J]

I have to be on the floor.

[Nigel Poor]

This is Elisa. And I really remember the moment we first spotted her in the library.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yep. You and I were at the Central California Women's Facility and we were in the library taking pictures of urban fiction books.

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly. And I thought the library was empty. And I peered over this bookshelf and I was so surprised because sitting on the ground was this woman with her legs curled under her. She just looked like, I don't know, like a little pixie or something.

[Earlonne Woods]

It was like she belonged there.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. You've heard of a church mouse?

[Shaka]

Yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

She was like a little library mouse. She was in her natural habitat. What are you doing right now?

[J]

I'm looking in the book section under the. With the medical references. I'm looking up some medical information that I'm trying to get a hold of, and novels. And I'll check out here. I'll get three books so I can check out a couple of my favorite authors and some medical stuff that I'm trying to Find.

[Nigel Poor]

How long have you been in prison?

[J]

I wasn't counting 14 months. I've been here six. So like 20 months in custody.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, 20, okay. So do you remember the first book you read in custody? No.

[J]

I've read like over 300 books in.

[Nigel Poor]

That period of time.

[J]

Yeah, I read like, well, those are 1400 pages. They take me a little bit longer, but in county because we were only out an hour a day. I was reading a book a day. 304 page book. 400 page book in a day.

[Earlonne Woods]

How many books do you think you've read in your life?

[J]

I don't know. I don't know. I had a lot of kids. I read a lot. My kids were avid readers. I love kids books. If this book library was filled with kids book, I'd read them all.

[Nigel Poor]

What book are you reading right now?

[J]

I'm finishing the outlander series. Like 1400 pages apiece. I just finished the seventh and so I'm reading the last one of that series.

[Nigel Poor]

Is that a fantasy series?

[Tommy]

It's.

[J]

Yeah, kind of sci fi drama, history all combined. It was like a HBO series. Jamie and Claire were the main people. It's really fascinating. It's like time travel. I'm going to be so sad when it's over because, like, that's my world right now. Like, I get to escape into that world so this doesn't feel so oppressive.

[Nigel Poor]

I know that feeling that you're talking about when a series or something ends and you feel a sadness. Yeah. It's like, oh, guess who's still at it.

[Earlonne Woods]

Tommy. Tommy, Tommy.

[Nigel Poor]

Go, Tommy.

[Tommy]

10, 15 years pass. They like 15 years into the game now. Everybody eating, everybody rich. Tay and Miguel grows up. Miguel got a wife.

[Nigel Poor]

Taylor, how much longer is this book?

[Tommy]

Just. Just a little bit longer. Okay, I just told you. Like a seven series. Like a seven series. I'm making it as short as I can. That's why. So for me, after that, Tay got a wife. They got a wife. They. He told.

[Claudia]

Thank you.

[Nigel Poor]

Did you just get a cut?

[Claudia]

Yeah, I just got it cut.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, it looks nice. Nicely shaped.

[Claudia]

Yeah, that's how they. They said I'm looking more professional.

[Nigel Poor]

Yes, it suits you.

[Claudia]

They say instead of the bald head.

[Earlonne Woods]

What up, Cuh.

[Nigel Poor]

What up?

[Earlonne Woods]

Ken, this is Marcus Henderson, AKA Wally.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. And Earlonne. We have known him, it feels like forever.

[Earlonne Woods]

Forever. Cause he works with us in the media lab over at the San Quentin News, and pretty much anytime we're in there, he come through and say, what's up?

[Nigel Poor]

Yep. And one time he happened to mention this story from when he was 19 years old and he had just gotten to prison.

[Claudia]

It was a time, man, I was really into, like, gang mentality, gang activity. Just not really fully functioning on, you know, using my thought processes.

[Shaka]

Right?

[Claudia]

It was so crazy. I was going to get my face tatted.

[Nigel Poor]

Your face?

[Claudia]

My face. I was in my face and my neck. I was going to have Fuck the World. I would have to ftw up under my eye and just fuck the world under my neck. Come from my right ear all the way to my left ear. So how big? Oh, it's gonna be big. I want you. When I lift my neck up, I want you to read it.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh. Kind of like a smile.

[Claudia]

Yeah, like a smile. And that's just how far I was going in my life, just, you know, thinking just life was over with.

[Earlonne Woods]

Why was you trying to get Fuck the world? What had happened that led you to that?

[Claudia]

Well, me, I mean, I got convicted for the crimes just newly in the prison. And I think that was just like you just was getting your tattoos to represent what you represented. How I got there and how I was feeling, what was pent up inside me, everything I felt, you know, as a youngster was like, just fuck the world. The world didn't care about me, so I didn't care about the world. And I wanted to display that I was just a young, upset person. When I got my tats, I was gonna go out and get released and have that same attitude. That was my thought process. So I was in Soledad. So you had Lassen and you had Rainier. So the tattoo guy stayed in Rainier, I stayed in Lassen. So I tried to go to another building to actually get my face tatted. I go. I hit the handle to tell a guard to let me in so I can just go up in here. He was like, man, you don't live up in here. I'm like, I just want to make a quick run and I'm going to come back out. He's like, no, man, just get away from here. So my idea was like, I just wait till in line, just sneak in and go get my tats. Then this tall black guy approached me. He said, hey, man, you look smart. If I give you a book, would you read it? And I was like, yeah. So he gave me a book called Enemies by Hakeem Abuti. And that was my first book.

[Earlonne Woods]

So Waleed goes back to his cell and he is just glued to this book.

[Claudia]

It was just about the black struggle, the black plight in America. This opened my eyes it like, blew my mind. Like, a lot of stuff that I didn't know, a lot of stuff I was participating in. Like, I didn't know how I got there. When I started reading about black history and what a black man is, you know, versus the childish thinking. What it means to think like a man and act like a boy. What is our goals as being black men? It's just really like, yeah, I'm not thinking to the proper level. So I was like, wow, I was just doing everything opposite of everything that he was sharing with me.

[Nate]

If a people are oppressed, everything that they do is political, from the food they eat to the clothing they wear. And the most political of all actions may be the love displayed among the people. The love of the race may at this time be the highest level of political development. It is most certainly political that we don't love or care for each other. In fact, we don't even like each other. Therefore, if one truly loves one's people, one would never betray, misuse, confuse, steal from, or harm another member of the race under any but the most serious of circumstances.

[Claudia]

I mean, I probably dabbled on the street in a book. I don't think I ever finished a book. Even going to school, I don't think I ever finished a book. But that was the first book that I actually read from COVID to cover and finished.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you remember how long it took you to read it?

[Claudia]

I think maybe a couple of days.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, you really dug in.

[Claudia]

Yeah. Once my mind got blown, I was in. I was like, oh, man, what else? I didn't know. This stuff is crazy. Like, this is why I'm in position. I'm in. In jail. It was like recognizing that it was potholes set up for people who are poor and black. And not to say it's still like that now, but, you know, still like that. After that, I was thinking, like, what else? You know, I didn't know. I went to the Solidarity Library and I just started getting everything. I started reading Socrates, Kant, Aristotle, anything that just came up about thought processing and how people think. And then I just moved from there to, like, the struggles of the Native Americans. Books just opened me up to another world. It was just like. Just like, wow. It's a lot that's going on with the human being, right. That we don't know.

[Earlonne Woods]

Let me ask this. After reading that first book, outside of your mind being blown, what else you noticed that changed about you?

[Claudia]

How did I view people, you know, and how did I view life? I think I became a scientist. I Just started going outside and just watching my friends and watching people dealing with different situations. It made me love myself. I really started loving myself. That was the change about not Fuck the World. No, more like, look, you come from a good stock. You supposed to be at this level of thinking. I didn't get the strength yet to hold, like, my self, authentic self yet. But I was there. That changed for me.

[Nigel Poor]

So who do you credit with that change happening?

[Claudia]

So everybody played their part, first and foremost. God intervened. The guard not let me in, me coming back. And the guy actually just said, look, you look smart if I give you a book. And I mean, like, nobody just ever ran up on you and say, if I give you a book, you know what I'm saying? Are you gonna be cool? Everybody played their part into that transformation.

[Nigel Poor]

And if the guard hadn't stopped you, you probably would have gone ahead and gotten that transition.

[Claudia]

You'd be looking at me right now with Fuck the World.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, my God. It's so hard to imagine.

[Shaka]

Try to get.

[Claudia]

Trying to get these facial removals that. Tattoo removals. That's probably what happened.

[Nigel Poor]

So let me ask you this. If you had to get a tattoo right now, what would it say?

[Claudia]

It's like, love the world, I go opposite.

[Nigel Poor]

Now.

[Claudia]

I actually went back and bought the book again to see what Megsie changed my life. And it really is not as good as I thought it was, but I was at that space.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, but what's good for you at 19 is gonna be different.

[Claudia]

It's gonna be different now.

[Nigel Poor]

At the time.

[Claudia]

Well, at the time, it did its job. It got me.

[Tommy]

Tay got away. If they got away. He told Miguel, our kids is not to be together. War breaks out. Now the truth starts coming out. It turns out Tay is a girl.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, did you see that coming?

[Tommy]

No. That's why I said it's a weird book. It's a weird book.

[Earlonne Woods]

Nice.

[Nigel Poor]

Yes.

[Earlonne Woods]

I think we were supposed to have a bigger reaction.

[Nigel Poor]

I know. Earlonne, you didn't react at all. I barely did. And Tommy, I'm sorry. I know that was supposed to be the big reveal.

[Tommy]

The only reason why I said all that, too, is to really throw your wolf from the van. Fact that she was a girl.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, yeah, no, I didn't see that coming.

[Claudia]

I'm not gonna lie.

[Tommy]

I finished that series in, like, a day or two. Like, probably three. The longest. Nothing but the book. I don't give a About nothing else but this book. I personally, I could say I love it.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm not gonna lie.

[Tommy]

It's Just like. It's like, oh, what's next? It's like you just want to know what's next, and it's right at your fingertips. So it's like, what's next?

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne. At this point, Tommy had been talking 20, 25 minutes straight, and we'd been sitting in this small room, no air, like we'd done a whole bunch of interviews. You were doodling, which I never see you do.

[Earlonne Woods]

Mark 5. What was I drawing?

[Nigel Poor]

You were drawing little speed racer cars. I was dazed. I'm telling you, I was not myself.

[Earlonne Woods]

But it was a. It was a.

[Nigel Poor]

You know, it's a long story.

[Earlonne Woods]

Thanks to Tommy, I don't have to read the book. Sorry, T. Styles.

[Nigel Poor]

So at this point, our producer Amy jumped in, probably because she felt sorry for us, and she asked him what he was reading now.

[Tommy]

Oh, 50 Shades of Gray.

[Nigel Poor]

No way. What do you think?

[Elisa]

It's just.

[Tommy]

What the Is this. What is he talking about? Dominant? Like, what is this dominant?

[Nigel Poor]

What made you want to read it?

[Tommy]

It's a big book. It's kind of time consuming.

[Nigel Poor]

Wait, what?

[Tommy]

It's a very big book.

[Nigel Poor]

So you go by how many pages?

[Tommy]

I just see big books and heard a lot about it. Like, mentioned a lot. Like, fifty Shades of Great. Fifty Shades of Great. Fifty Shades of Great.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

It just makes me think, like, is that really happening out there right now? Are people really doing that dominant stuff?

[Nigel Poor]

I don't know, but it's popular inside San Quentin too.

[Tommy]

There's a lot of sex scenes in that book. Like, it's. It's over extensive, like, for no reason. It should never be that much in that book. It's just like I'll be having to just skip a couple pieces.

[Nigel Poor]

Like, I feel like that's the point. That's why people read it, I think. Like I said, I haven't read it.

[Tommy]

But I heard they dumbed the movie down a lot. Like the movie dumbed down a lot.

[Earlonne Woods]

Nige. Of all the books mentioned in this episode. Okay, which one would you read first?

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, my God, there are so many. Earlonne. Well, my better self would love to say the first book I'm going to grab is what was it? Dante's the bitch. I was going to say Dante's. What was it? Dante's Divine Comedy. But the bitch.

[Earlonne Woods]

The bitch, you know, that's about pimps and prostitutes and it sounds really fun.

[Nigel Poor]

I love that the guy's going to buy. Either buy me something from Tiffany's or Cartier, depending on how long I hang out. What a Great fantasy. What about you?

[Earlonne Woods]

Probably the new dimension in African history. I mean. I mean, I plan on going to Africa soon, so.

[Nigel Poor]

All right.

[Earlonne Woods]

I gotta brush up.

[Nigel Poor]

You know, Earl, I really love that. Well, when we started this episode, I was worried it was going to be kind of too virtuous. Like, oh, books saved my life. Books changed, you know, changed everything for me. But I love how, just like on the outside, people in prison are reading all kinds of stuff, right? The good, the bad, the high, the low.

[Earlonne Woods]

I mean, it's an escape. What did Ms. Guidry say you'll get?

[Elisa]

A little streets, a little romance, a little cheating.

[Earlonne Woods]

Deception.

[Elisa]

Yeah, deception. You gonna get lots of money. You gonna lose lots of money. Might even lose your life. But I'm just saying it's entertaining.

[Nigel Poor]

That's a great note to go out on.

[Earlonne Woods]

Indubitably.

[Ms. Guidry]

Okay. Okay. This is Christy, co founder of Friends of the San Quentin Library. We work to bring more books and resources into prison libraries in California. Ear Hustle is produced by Nigel Poor, Earlonne Woods, Amy Standen, Bruce Wallace Roussan New York Thomas and Katie Shukhnet. Shabnam Sigman is the managing producer. The producing team, Inside San Quentin, includes Darrell Sadiq Davis, Tony detroindidad and Tom Nguyen. The inside managing producer is Tony Tafoya. Thanks to Acting Warden Andes at San Quentin, Acting Warden Parker and Lt. Newborg at the California Institution for Women, and Warden De la Cruz and Lt. Williams at the Central California Women's facilities at their support of the show. Thanks also to this woman here. I am Lieutenant Giamarie Berry, the public information officer at San Quentin Rehabilitation center, and I approve this episode. This episode was made possible by the Just Trust building, a smaller, more humane engine of justice and safety across the country.

[Earlonne Woods]

We want to thank New York City's administration for Children's Services and our friends at Drama Club and small research for social change at Michigan State and Hunter College.

[Nigel Poor]

A very special thank you to Lee Jaspar for the book readings in this episode. Audible. I hope you're listening. Earlonne woods sound designs and engineers the show with help from Fernando Arruda, Harry Culhane and Darrell Siddiq Davis.

[Earlonne Woods]

Music for this episode comes from Darrell Siddiq Davis, Antwan Williams, Fernando Arruda, David Jossi, and me, Earlonne Woods.

[Nigel Poor]

For more information about this episode, check out the show notes on ear hustle's website, earhustlesq.com and if you want to.

[Earlonne Woods]

Learn more about this episode and all of our episodes, sign up for our monthly email newsletter. The Lowdown.

[Nigel Poor]

You can see photos. Go behind the scenes to find out what the Ear Hustle team is up to and more. Sign [e-mail] newsletter.

[Earlonne Woods]

You can also find us on social media, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube @Earhustle. Sq.

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne, what's going on at YouTube? I've never looked at it. Can you believe it?

[Earlonne Woods]

YouTube is cracking. I mean you know we need to do more interactive videos but you know our content is up there.

[Nigel Poor]

All right, let's make some more videos. That sounds fun indeed. If you're not already, follow and review Ear Hustle on any of your favorite podcast platforms like Apple Podcasts, Spotify and the iHeartRadio app.

[Earlonne Woods]

We love to read that stuff. Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia from prx, a network of independent creator owned listener supported podcasts.

[Nigel Poor]

Discover audio with vision at Radiotopia fm.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm Earlonne Woods.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm Nigel Poore.

[Earlonne Woods]

Thanks for listening.

[Nigel Poor]

Radiotopia from PRX.