Bag of Skittles

Summary

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Ear Hustle – "Bag of Skittles" (May 13, 2026)

Episode Overview

This episode of Ear Hustle explores the complex realities of body image and self-expression among incarcerated men, centering on the ways prisoners assert control over their bodies in an environment where autonomy is deeply restricted. Through candid conversations, the hosts and their interviewees examine themes of masculinity, self-esteem, safety, and belonging—all through the lens of tattoos, body modification, working out, and internal struggles with body image. The episode also touches on stereotypes, the emotional impact of prison, and the vulnerabilities often masked by tough exteriors.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ear Hustle's Behind-the-Scenes & Listener Support

• The show's senior editor, Amy Standen, discusses her multifaceted role—ranging from studio work to prison education initiatives and live shows (00:16–01:13).
• Emphasis on the critical importance of listener donations to sustain the show's outreach and production (01:18–02:47).

2. Tattoos as Identity and Survival

• Peter's Story: A heavily tattooed San Quentin inmate shares his experience with getting face tattoos at 13, influenced by Native American culture and prison norms. He describes the pain, lasting impact, and protective power of body art in prison (05:00–07:21).
  • Memorable Quote:
    Peter (07:17): "I was 13 years old when I got this."
  • Tattoos serve as a visible barrier and a sometimes unintended mask—shaping how others perceive and interact with him (38:07–38:36).
• Discussion on the social dynamics and meaning behind getting inked behind bars: expression, intimidation, and reclaiming agency over one's body (07:33–08:13).

3. Body Image Insecurity and Masculinity in Prison

• Tony's Story: Tony, an incarcerated Ear Hustle contributor, opens up about lifelong struggles with body image, referencing pop culture pressures, comparison, and shame (08:42–11:09).
  • Notable Moment:
    Tony discusses covering up in the showers due to body shame and the learned behaviors of minimizing vulnerability (13:18–14:01).
• The conversation extends into social hierarchies, humor, and everyday navigation of self-consciousness in a hyper-masculine environment (12:27–13:03).
• Comparison, envy, and the challenge of achieving change are ongoing sources of psychological stress (10:11–10:45).

4. Fitness as Empowerment and Shield

• Jesse, Joseph, and Robert (Columbia River Correctional Institution, Portland, OR):
  • Jesse reads a poignant letter about loneliness, violence, and the performance of toughness as survival (14:27–15:23).
    • Memorable Quote:
      Jesse (15:23): "I had to be someone I wasn't...I had to be stronger and pretend I was stronger than I really am."
  • Joseph describes overcompensating for fear by striving for physical strength and a stereotypical “California body” (lots of upper body, no legs) (17:00–19:03).
    • Notable Quote:
      Joseph (18:00): "Guys in California never read the book about doing lower body exercises."
  • Robert reflects on appearance and competition—the need to "feel seen" in a place with few outlets for individuality (19:31–21:21).
    • Memorable Quote: Robert (20:04): "Body image is one of the few outlets we have in here to be able to do that."

5. Risks and Realities of Body Modification: The ‘Bag of Skittles’

• Tom & Glenn’s Story: A striking account of home-made penile implants as a misguided attempt to address body dysmorphia and compensate for insecurity (26:08–33:14).
  • Notable Quotes:
    • Glenn (27:34): "It looked like a bag of Skittles, bro. Like literally like a sack of Skittles."
    • Glenn (32:47): "It makes me feel superior…I have this disease where I compare myself."
  • The procedure is described in graphic, visceral detail, including the tools used and social dynamics among inmates (28:18–31:30).
  • The act is ultimately about seeking validation and self-worth, but is laced with risk, pain, and self-admission of low self-esteem.

6. Tattoos & Stereotypes: Layers Beneath the Surface

• Circling back to Peter—examining assumptions around heavily tattooed men, including racial/affiliational judgments and the deeper stories behind the “mask” (33:41–36:00).
  • Nigel admits being nervous approaching Peter, only to find his assumptions challenged by Peter’s openness and kindness (34:49–35:11, 38:07–38:36).
• Peter shares stories of love, acceptance, and regret—tattoos for each of his significant relationships, the meaning behind them, and the emotional journey of being seen and accepted (38:36–43:20).
  • Memorable Quote:
    Peter (42:51): "I saved two spots on my side right here. Those are the only two women in my life that ever loved me unconditionally, so I think that they deserve it."

7. Gender & Stereotypes: The Missing Stories

• The hosts reflect on the absence of women’s prison body image stories in this episode, acknowledging their own biases and the need for deeper exploration beyond the cliché of women gaining weight (43:38–44:51).
  • Quote: Nigel (44:07): "I just feel like we had to dig deeper than that."
  • Promise to cover women's experiences in greater depth in a future episode.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Peter describing his face tattoo experience:
  "I was 13 years old when I got this." (07:17)
• Jesse on the pressure to perform masculinity:
  "I had to be someone I wasn't when I first came into prison..." (15:23)
• Joseph on ‘California body’ stereotype:
  "Guys in California never read the book about doing lower body exercises." (18:00)
• Glenn’s encounter with penile implants:
  "It looked like a bag of Skittles, bro." (27:34)
• Robert on needing to feel seen:
  "Body image is one of the few outlets we have in here to be able to do that." (20:04)
• Peter on tattooed love and loss:
  "I saved two spots on my side right here...Those are the only two women in my life that ever loved me unconditionally." (42:51)

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Segment Guide & Timestamps

• 00:16–02:47 – Introductions, the Ear Hustle team, and importance of listener support
• 05:00–07:21 – Peter’s tattoo origins and meaning
• 08:42–11:09 – Tony’s personal battle with body image
• 14:27–16:30 – Jesse on toughness and the emotional toll of prison
• 17:00–21:21 – Joseph and Robert on working out for safety, self-esteem, and "being seen"
• 26:08–33:14 – Body dysmorphia and the risky practice of penile implants ("bag of Skittles")
• 33:41–43:20 – Peter’s tattoos as emotional/life milestones and challenges of being read solely by appearance
• 43:38–44:51 – Acknowledgment of missing women’s perspectives & commitment to future coverage

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Tone & Style

The episode is raw, direct, and punctuated with the signature Ear Hustle blend of humor, empathy, and honesty. Conversations are unflinchingly real, occasionally graphic, and deeply personal, balancing vulnerability and levity—even on taboo topics.

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For Listeners:

“Bag of Skittles” offers an unvarnished look at how incarcerated men shape, defend, and sometimes punish their own bodies as forms of self-expression, protection, and coping. The episode peels back stereotypes, revealing hidden insecurities and unspoken desires for acceptance, connection, and autonomy—a must-listen for compassionate insight into rarely-told stories behind prison walls.

Transcript

[A]

We've got a special guest with us today, our senior editor, Amy Stand in, who just got her aarp.

[B]

What the hell?

[A]

She's our senior editor.

[B]

Oh, hey, Amy.

[C]

He's right. Hi, guys.

[B]

Hello. Hello.

[A]

Amy, could you tell the good folks just a little about all the things that you do for Ear Hustle?

[B]

Sure.

[C]

Well, I'm in the studio whenever you guys track. Whenever you guys record narration, like right now, I get to help out a lot with the writing and shooting shaping of episodes with the two of you. After this, the three of us are going to San Quentin to do some interviews. That should be fun. Also, speaking of San Quentin, I run an internship program, and I also have something I call the open class, where we bring in guests from the outside to teach incarcerated people about storytelling.

[B]

Definitely.

[C]

And then the live shows is the other big piece. Right. We all work shaping those shows together, writing them, figuring out what they're gonna look like and sound like, and bringing those shows into prisons to show to incarcerated people. And also workshops on storytelling at different prisons around the country. So, yeah, it's basically I get to work on all of the fun stuff and none of the not fun stuff.

[B]

What is the not fun stuff? It leaves up to Bruce. Oh, that will remain a secret.

[A]

And the reason that we have Amy here is to make the point that none of those things she mentioned would be possible without listener support. Right.

[B]

And it's a lot of stuff. It's pretty exciting to hear all, I think, behind the scenes of what gets done. So, recently, we launched this year's Ear Hustle fundraiser, and our goal is to reach 1,000 donors by the end of this season.

[A]

We have a long way to go to get to a thousand.

[B]

We do. We do. But every gift, no matter the amount, will help us get closer to our goal.

[C]

Plus, when you donate, you'll get an invitation to our June 11th virtual party where you can ask Nigel and Earl on your most embarrassing and personal questions

[B]

live exactly in the morning. Embarrassing and personal, the more fun it will be.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

And if you donate $10 a month, you'll get access to Ear Hustle plus for ad, free listening, and bonus content.

[C]

For example, I think my favorite bonus content are the Ask me anything episodes that you guys do with Bruce. Because speaking of embarrassing and personal questions, you get asked a lot of kind of nosy stuff in there, and it's really fun listening to.

[B]

It's always fun. Remember we had to take that personality test? Exactly. Oh, my God.

[A]

So if y' all are interested in anything, they just said, go to earhustlesq.com donate to make your gift today. It's a gift.

[B]

It is a gift and we thank you so much.

[A]

And she said we need a thousand.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Before the end of the season.

[B]

I know. Like I'm saying.

[A]

All right. Ear Hustlers come in strong for us so we can keep doing this work.

[B]

Yes. This episode of Ear Hustle is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

[A]

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[B]

Doesn't it feel like it's been like go, go, go, go lately?

[A]

Yeah, I haven't fully unpacked my suitcase in the past couple of weeks. It's all good though.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

That's true. I actually just got a new pair of denim jeans from Quint. They are super soft. I love them. All of their fabrics feel elevated, the fits are flattering and everything just works without overthinking it.

[A]

Everything at Quint is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality, not brand markup.

[B]

Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quints.com earhustle for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too.

[A]

That's Q-U-I-N C E.com earhustle for Free Shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com earhustle

[B]

I'm Megan Wilson, the official tattooer for Ear Hustle. I had the pleasure of giving Earlonne and Nigel their matching tattoos.

[C]

The following episode contains language and content that may not be appropriate for all listeners. Discretion is advised.

[B]

How many tattoos do you have?

[D]

Probably over a hundred.

[B]

Oh, come on.

[D]

More than that. Probably. Yeah, probably close to about 500 or more, if not more. When I look at tattoos, I don't see, oh, that guy's crazy or that guy's bad. I see, wow, man, this guy's got an imagination.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

You know, he's got a sense of humor, right? He's courageous.

[A]

This is Peter. We spotted him on the yard at San Quentin a few months ago. And we were like, man, we need to know a little bit more about this cat.

[D]

I grew up on the reds, and tattoos on the reds were Indian culture. So at an early age I was introduced to tattoos. By the time I went to YA I had a couple of them on me already. It was a thing to do. People passed the time.

[A]

Peter was locked up in YA that's the Youth Authority. It's a detention facility for kids under 21. He knew a guy who did tattoos in there and he wanted one.

[B]

So the guy says, sure, but before they get down to it, they start drinking pruno, which is prison made booze.

[D]

I don't know if you ever heard of pruno, but pruno's a drink that we make out of vegetables and fruit and stuff. I really didn't want to do the face, but six hours later, he's slapping me awake and he says, hey, man, go to yourself. It's count time. And my eyes were swollen shut, my lips were swollen, my nose was swollen. And I thought, what's going on here? And he said that I was talking to him while he was doing my neck, that I wanted my face done. And he said, what are you into? And I said, skulls. So he gave me a tattoo of a skull, like a decaying skull and then the triple X and the words, forgive my language says, fuck.

[B]

What you think this is one six hour session?

[D]

Yeah, this was a whole six hour session on my face. I guess the last hour or two before he finished, I guess I passed out. And I remember him slapping me awake. And he said, go to your cell. It's count time. By that I had triple legs. What would you think? I had a spider. I had a skull, and then I had horns, and then I had a cross on my face.

[B]

It goes over your eye?

[D]

Yeah, my eye.

[B]

How old were you?

[D]

I was 13. What? I was 13 years old when I got this.

[B]

And what did you think when you saw it?

[D]

Well, I thought, well, there goes my career.

[B]

Earlonne, you made it out of prison. Pretty tattoo free.

[A]

I did, but a lot of guys get tatted up in prison. Some of those tattoos are good and some are, you know, less so, you know, like, I've seen some that looked like shit.

[B]

Yeah, totally, totally. So I'm interested in this idea of what people do to their bodies in prison, partially because when you're in prison, you have, you know, it seems so little control over your body. I mean, there are restrictions on, like, when you eat what you eat, where you can exercise, when you sleep. And obviously, you can't just go wherever you want.

[A]

Right. But, you know, people going to find some ways to take some of that control of their bodies back, and that's what we're talking about today.

[B]

We are focusing on men's prisons specifically. You know, what do people do with their bodies in prison? How do they think about them? And how does being in prison change that?

[A]

I'm Earlonne Woods.

[B]

I'm Nigel Poor, and this is ear hustle from PRX's Radiotopia. Okay, what are we talking to you about today?

[E]

My body. Ody ody. That's the technical term.

[B]

Body Ody ody.

[E]

Body Ody ody. Megan thee stallion said that that is how you're supposed to call your body.

[A]

Why did you bring her up?

[E]

Oh, because she's really body positive.

[B]

So where are you on the scale of positive body outlook?

[E]

I am definitely someone who does not like my body and feels kind of trapped in it.

[B]

So, of course, everyone knows. This is Tony, who works with us inside San Quentin, and he's talking about, you know, thoughts about his body that I'm sure a lot of listeners can relate to. When was the first time you were aware of your body?

[E]

Oh, When I was 8 or 9, I noticed I had a tiny little belly, and I was like, oh, that's weird. This was the time of, like, nsync and Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears, and being fat was bad. So one of my best friends at that time, she was bulimic. We both worked at Jamba Juice, and we would basically live on, like, a Jamba Juice diet. We'd have one in the morning and one at night, and we definitely tried to be as thin as we possibly could.

[A]

How little did you get?

[E]

I could fit into a women's 28.

[A]

What is a women's 28?

[B]

That's small.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Tony's gained some weight since then. You know, he's just not where he wants to be. How many times a day do you think about your body?

[E]

Maybe 15, 20.

[B]

And what makes you think about it?

[E]

Looking down, just moving around. I live on the fifth tier, so just walking up the stairs is a challenge. Leaning over to, you know, cuff my jeans or pick something up, like, I feel my body. I'm envious and jealous of people around me. I'll see people who are, like, in their 40s who have abs, and I'm like, how do you have that? Like, how Is that even possible?

[A]

Tony's been doing this exercise thing where another incarcerated guy, San Quentin, is acting as his trainer and Tony's working out.

[E]

My goal is not necessarily to be thin and have this tiny waist. Like, I don't care about that. I'm okay with most of my body. I just am not okay with love handles and a stomach and my man boobs that I'm trying to get rid of.

[A]

Do anybody in the showers ever come in on your male boobs?

[E]

Not in the showers. Now where at? Normally, like, in passing, like, I'll be walking towards the chapel and people will just like, whisper weird, creepy things.

[A]

Like what?

[E]

Like there's this one guy that goes, oh, hey, pretty Tony, looking good today. Or like, hey, pretty Tony. Those things are perking out. It's the same guy. It's always the same guy. Guys see my body as ultra feminine, and so it's attractive to certain people. And it's never the people you want.

[B]

When you look at Earlonne, what do you see?

[E]

Regular dude who's lost a lot of weight since I've seen him.

[A]

That's crazy because I've gained all. I know he's gained a lot all my weight back.

[B]

Okay, but when you look at Earlonne, do you judge him?

[E]

No, I don't judge other men's bodies.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And why do you think you are so harsh on yourself?

[E]

I think it's because I see other people gaining results and I just don't feel or see that I'm gaining results.

[A]

It's hard to pass the kitchen cabinet without checking in on the cookies.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

So I get it. I get it.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

You think you two have something in common.

[A]

We both fat boys.

[B]

So just then, Jason, one of our interns, walked in.

[A]

Okay, so would you consider us two sharpie markers? And would you consider Jason a number two pencil?

[E]

Yeah, I would do two sharpies and like, one of those cigarette filters that like French women used to smoke in the 1920s.

[A]

Hey, that's almost like saying unfolding a paperclip. What's up, Jason?

[D]

What's up?

[A]

Turned out Jason had his own questions about what it's like to have a body. Like Tony's in prison.

[E]

So when you shower, how do you feel like being naked in front of other men? Being that you have, like body insecurities

[D]

and stuff like that.

[E]

I try to hurry up and just like shower and get out. I notice that, like, a lot of people will get in there and they'll just have a full on conversation and they'll wash their laundry I just get in and get out as fast as I can. The second I'm done showering, I also will put my towel over me so that I hide my entire stomach and my entire like chest so that I can just like cover myself. And then I'll go and stand backwards towards like the wall so that not many people can see me.

[D]

Is that because you're uncomfortable or you

[E]

don't want to make anyone else feel uncomfortable? It's mostly because I'm uncomfortable, but at the same time I don't want anyone else to think like I'm looking at them or that I'm there to just like hang out in the shower, you know.

[A]

So are you saying you're not a shower shark?

[E]

No, I'm definitely not a shower shark.

[D]

No.

[A]

What is a shower shark?

[E]

Someone who looks at other people's penises. Opp.

[F]

I wrote something. I don't know if it pertains to this specific thing, but I would like you guys to hear it.

[A]

We met this guy Jesse at the Columbia River Correctional Institution in Portland, Oregon when we were on the road doing our live show.

[B]

He came in carrying a letter he'd written and usually we like to just talk to people, but he was really insistent on reading it.

[F]

I hope you never ever have to deal with the many things that run through my mind. It is at times way too much to handle thoughts of being forgotten. Watching your so called friends and loved ones turn their back on you one by one. This place is not filled with anything happy. It is filled with a lot of hate and sadness. Having to fight no matter how scared you are nor how big or small that person is. Just to show you're not a coward. I don't want to die alone. This place is very cold and lonely. It's a place where your dreams turned into nightmares. My name is Jesse Holt.

[B]

Thank you, Jesse.

[F]

I had to be someone I wasn't when I first came into prison. Like I was weighing like a buck 40. People just run over me, no problem. I had to be stronger and pretend I was stronger than I really am.

[A]

Did you feel that you had to like gain weight, get bigger?

[F]

Absolutely. What's the saying? Go wolves. Don't stop and ask the opinion of sheeps.

[B]

So what have you had to do in prison to defend against that?

[F]

The old me, I'd fight in the drop of a hat. I used to have to fight all the time.

[B]

I guess I just, I wonder what that sort of stress in having to change the way you are. What's the long term effects of that

[F]

last year I tried to commit suicide twice. So yes, it does weigh heavy. I've made changes. Like I don't even know how to tell you how much I've grown.

[B]

And what brought about this change in perspective.

[F]

I'm tired of doing this, basically. I'm tired of trying to be King Turd of the Turt Hill. Because if you just want to be King Turd of the Turtle, eventually you're just going to slide down and get covered and shit.

[G]

Before I came to prison, I was afraid. I was scared.

[B]

Joseph is also at that prison in Portland.

[G]

I was 29 years old, but I wasn't anywhere close to grown. Essentially I was a little boy that was in a man's body going to a men's prison. So I can only think that lifting weights and getting big is a way of protecting myself. Like, I don't want to fuck with that guy because he might punch me in the face. I kind of had this image of people and what they looked like being in prison. And it was like that Persona of having big muscles and portray that kind of toughness.

[A]

When I think about it, I always think about upper big body and two big legs.

[G]

Yeah. So that's funny that you said that because something I've heard over the years is you don't want to have a California body. And I'm like, what? What do you mean, a California body? And they're like, well, a big chest, big arms, big back and no legs. And so I'm like, well, I'm not going to be that guy.

[B]

Earlonne. I know what a California body is, but okay, why is it just in California?

[A]

I don't know. You know, I think guys in California never read the book about doing lower body exercises. You know what I'm saying? It was almost like you have this huge chest, these massive traps, these shoulders, these arms, this six pack. But then when they go below the belt, there's nothing there to hold up the rest of the body.

[B]

So was that your look?

[A]

I mean, pretty much. Cause nobody, I never did legs when I was in prison, you know what I'm saying? It was all about upper body.

[B]

But when you go to other states, they pay attention to what's below the belt.

[A]

I mean, true that, true that. I mean, they probably get it all in. But I guess in California that just wasn't a thing.

[G]

So I'm out on the weight pile and I'm doing 400 pound squats. Like I'm gonna have big legs. I want to have big quads. You know what I Mean, I got this Arnold Schwarzenegger bodybuilding book, right? And I have my highlighter, right. I'm sitting on my bed and I'm mapping out this plan of, like, how I can really just get ripped.

[H]

Some legends walk among us, but they aren't born, they are built.

[G]

I have that burnt in my head. And I want to leave prison, like, in good shape and I want to look good and I don't know for who I.

[D]

For the future.

[A]

Here in the men's prison. Is body image a thing?

[H]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

This is the last guy we're going to hear from from that prison in Portland.

[A]

And listeners might remember Robert from our previous episode talking about hugs.

[B]

Yeah, it was called the corny ass episode.

[H]

We have very limited ways from separating ourselves from the pack, which is important as men, as humans, and to feel seen, we want to feel seen. So it's body. Body image is one of the few outlets we have in here to be able to do that.

[B]

So what have you done to yourself to make you be seen?

[H]

I mean, exercise. Just trying to stay healthy. I'm a Leo, so I believe in my, you know, this is my crown, my mane. I like to grow my hair out and kind of keep it kind of flashy. I love the mullet. Something kind of different, you know, keep it professional up front and partying in the back.

[B]

So since this is audio, can you describe physically what you look like?

[H]

Tall, six, three, £230, dark hair. I work out a lot.

[A]

Strong in body wise. What were you like on the streets?

[H]

Well, I always carried an equalizer, so it didn't really matter. You know, I come from a gang background where short hair was kind of part of the dress code. So it's kind of an open rebellion to the code I used to live by. And it's also just kind of an acceptance of myself and wanting to be beautiful.

[B]

Are you more muscular than the majority of the guys here?

[H]

Probably more than most? Less than some? Definitely.

[B]

Is it competitive?

[H]

Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[H]

I'd be lying if I. If it wasn't kind of a badge of honor to be the strongest dude on the yard again. It's one of those things that distinguishes you from the rest of the pack. And I don't know if it's so much about respect or just. Just the recognition feeling seen.

[B]

That's what I was wondering. Is it about safety, respect, or something else?

[H]

It used to be I was somebody that thrived off of being feared when I walked into a room. Now, not so much. I try to channel a lot more energy into being loved and respected even after I leave the room.

[B]

Do you remember being afraid of other people?

[H]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Is that something you can talk about or not?

[H]

Yeah, that started young, too. That started young. My dad's always been gone. He's in federal prison right now. So I had kind of a rotisserie of stepdads and boyfriends and stuff in and out of my life growing up.

[D]

And

[H]

that's. Yeah, a lot of fear came along with that. So, yeah,

[B]

Earlonne, so far we've heard stories that hit on and kind of validate three very standard prison stereotypes. One, getting harassed in the shower.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Two, if you're scrawny in prison, you're going to be a victim. And three, every big, strong, muscular guy who wants to intimidate people is really a damaged and scared little boy on the inside.

[A]

You know, you might got a point there. And this next one is about a stereotype, too.

[B]

Yeah. And I think it's going to make some people a little uncomfortable.

[A]

That's coming up after the break.

[B]

Hey, listeners, Nigel and Earlonne here to tell you about our fellow Radiotopia show Proxy, which is coming back with a new season.

[A]

Proxy is a show built on the idea that you're never alone with a problem, no matter how niche, no matter how weird someone out there gets it.

[B]

On Proxy, host Yowei Shah searches for a stranger with the closest possible experience to what someone is going through a Proxy, if you will, and then she brings them together for a conversation.

[A]

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Bro.

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You know how to speak, bro.

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For shizzle my nizzle,

[B]

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Ick.

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here and maybe how to head them

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[I]

Take a listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[K]

Okay, so you know that we're doing a story on dysmorphia. Do you know what that is?

[A]

Here's Tom. When he heard we were doing this episode about body image in prison, he said, I know a guy that we need to talk to, a guy in San Quentin named Glen.

[B]

Yeah. And as we said before the break, this story is going to make some people queasy. So you've been warned.

[K]

From my understanding, what it was explained to me was like a body image issue. Like, I guess there's something with your body that you would like more or like to enhance. I guess, like some people, like, they have a problem with how they see themselves too. I think that's the main thing. Right. Like, so. So some guys who are real, like, you ever hear of women? They're really thin.

[D]

Yeah.

[K]

But they think they're too fat.

[J]

Yes.

[K]

So they do extreme stuff.

[J]

Yes.

[B]

Stuff like that.

[J]

Yeah. I'm familiar with it. Like, for me as a guy, you know, we all know what our. What dick size means to us. And I'm not really. Let's just say, like, you know, my line of breed isn't very in the enhanced era, per se area. Right.

[K]

But wait, what do you mean your breed?

[J]

Explain that to me as an Asian descent, bro.

[A]

Don't say that I'm Asian.

[E]

I feel fine.

[J]

Okay. So I got to talking with my homie Q. I told Q about my little self conscious, how I'm not that blessed and all that stuff. And he goes, hey, man, you wanna. You know what will help? That showed me how I can enhance my. My dick size. Simply implanting an object inside the skin of my penis. And then he whips out his dick. It looked like a bag of Skittles, bro. Like, literally like a sack of Skittles.

[B]

Okay. As you and I are sitting recording this, I'm really thinking about Lieutenant Barry.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

Actually, ever since we started working on this episode, I've been wondering, is Lieutenant Barry going to sign off on this next part of the story, Earlonne, what do you think?

[A]

I mean, since you say you wondering, I can just imagine her pushing. Stop. I know they didn't say what they just said. Rewinding. Oh, they did just say that.

[B]

Okay, so if you're hearing this, we all owe Lieutenant Barry a huge thank you for being so open minded and

[A]

letting us tell things, you know, as they are. This is the type of shit that happens. Anyway, back to Tom and his friend Glenn.

[J]

This is the first time I looked at it, right? And then I go, what the fuck is that? And then he goes, look, this, this pleases women right here. Like as you thrush, right? Because all these implants in your dick are like rubbing against her walls. Friction. So like about to start a fire. When he told me this, I said, I want one. Yeah. When he told me how they do it, I said, I don't want one. And then he showed me when he did, he did somebody right in front of him. He said, you'll see how it's done and how quick it is. It hurts for two seconds, but it quickly goes away. He shows me how it's done. Boom, boom. I wanted to throw up as he went through, and he did it. I looked at the guy's reaction and he looked. He seemed fine, right? He seemed fine. And so I said, man, let's do this. Let's do this. I was scared, man. So that day, my homie Q's like, are you ready? You ready? And I was like, bro, like, you're acting like I'm about to go fucking rumble or something. Like this is a Mike Tyson fight or something, bro. And I start getting even more nervous and he goes, don't worry, dude. He's showing me all his utensils, handmade utensils, which is a ripped sheet, like in the shape of a ribbon from a bed sheet. And then we have a sharpened toothbrush in the county jail. It's like the half size toothbrush. And he had hair grease to lubricate the toothbrush so that it slides in as it pierces. And then that grease stops the blood flow from coming out.

[A]

Hey, hey, hey, Nigel.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Would you do me a favor and tell me when this part of the story over? Because I'm over here squirming, listening to this shit.

[B]

I got you covered, partner. Don't worry.

[J]

I lay down and then self consciously, I see everybody waiting. Cause they're all giggling. All my homies are giggling like, oh, we're gonna watch this dude fucking get his dick pierced. When I pulled down my pants. I tried to do it halfway. Cause I was kind of shy and shit still. And everyone just immediately started laughing, bro. And I was like, man, fuck you guys. Like, ooh, hurry up, Q. Fuck, man. And he goes, this is not something we fucking rush, man. So he fucking rolls up a piece of toilet paper. He goes, here, you might want to bite into this. And it was a towel. And I go, fuck, man, you told me it wasn't gonna fucking hurt. He goes, you wanna look or you don't look? They grab my skin on the top of my shaft, pull it real tight. I could feel it. And I go, oh. And then when he pulls out the toothbrush, I try to close my eyes, but I open one eye because, you know, it's like one of those things where you're watching a scary movie.

[E]

Yeah, yeah.

[J]

You're scared, but then you still look. And he just pushed it in. He didn't even do a countdown like I expected him. And I grunt. I said, oh, that shit was like intense, bro. But it was all worth it, man, because at the end when it was over, I looked down. Yeah, I was almost bleeding to death. My dick looked like it just got removed from the yard, bro. Like it was a piece of shit.

[K]

When you did this to yourself, right? And you said you felt better about, you know, yourself. When did you start feeling better about it, though?

[J]

After my first woman. After getting the reaction that I seen for the very first time because I couldn't wait to use it. That was when I felt really good and I wanted to pass on that confidence to other people that was going through what I was going through. I make it sound all dramatic and stuff, but I'm the only, I guess, guy that would. Is willing to say that.

[H]

Yeah.

[J]

You know what I mean? I think 90% guys think the same thing as I do. The other 10% lie.

[G]

Yeah.

[J]

I have a part of every prison I've been to in it. Like, I have two melted beads from a rosary together. They're melted together. I got a shave down dice. I've got a grinded down toothbrush. I've got chess piece, you know, I mean, I've got all kinds of stuff. You know what I mean?

[K]

What I want to ask is going back to the beginning when you. You were talking about the reasons you do it, right?

[D]

Yes.

[K]

So what is the. The. The thought behind it again? Like, give me a detailed description of what the thought and what. How it makes you feel.

[J]

Okay. It makes me feel superior because I like to believe I'm An Alpha or I'm a dominant man and I have this disease where I compare myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[J]

And that's what makes me want to enhance myself. It makes me kind of like self conscious in a pathetic way. Because when I enhance myself, I'm like, basically no longer have to pretend I'm Bruce Wayne and Batman. I'm actually Batman all the time.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[J]

You know, I mean, with the marble.

[B]

Okay, Earlonne, you can come back now.

[A]

Call me back in credits

[B]

still recovering.

[A]

Yes, I am Nigel. Yes, I am.

[D]

Nigel.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Can I ask you a real question? When you look at me, what do you see?

[A]

Okay, we're back with Peter. He's the guy we met at the top of the episode who got his face all tatted up when he was serving time as a 13 year old.

[B]

Okay, so I've seen you around the yard, right. And of course I was curious because you really stand out. The first time I saw you, what scared me was the tattoo you have under your mouth is of another mouth. And so it's very hard to know what you look like. It took me a minute to realize, oh, that's not his mouth. You have a blackout tattoo around your eyes. It's hard to read your face. But it wasn't the arm tattoos, the neck tattoos. It was the mouth that was visually confusing to me. And so I have to admit, I was nervous of you. And I really wanted to talk to you because I wanted to know, who is this person? And I talked about it with the guys that we work with, and I was like, well, do you think I can just go up to him? Do you think he's just going to be mean? Will he be like, you know, don't talk to me? And so I had to get my courage up to come talk to you. And I actually waited till Earlonne was here, but as soon as we stopped and talked to you, I could see your facial expression and your. Your eyes smiled, your mouth smiled, and you were incredibly open. And so it challenged my assumptions very quickly. Does that answer your question?

[D]

It makes sense because, I mean, being in prison, you see a lot of guys with tattoos, and a lot of them can be mean and scary, but I'm happy. And you saw the smile and the expression because I was happy that you took the time to, you know, interact with me, you know, and I thought, wow, that was. That was cool. You know, I appreciated it. I was glad that, you know, I was able to show you that, you know, all of us are not as

[B]

crazy, like, in five seconds. But so then I Don't know if I want this on there. Then I was worried maybe you were an Aryan Nation guy.

[D]

Oh, no,

[A]

Nyge, you should probably explain to people why you assume that Peter was an Aryan Nation guy.

[B]

Yeah, well, for one thing, even though Peter is half Native American, he looks like he's white.

[A]

I mean, I assume that. That he was a white guy.

[B]

Right. And in prison, when you see a white guy with a ton of tattoos, you know, certain things occur to you. So it didn't seem out of the realm of possibility that Peter was connected to a white supremacist group.

[D]

I've had experience with them, and I did raise my hand at one time, but I had this guy talk me out of it back in 89. He said, Look, Peter, I don't want you to follow down the road that we did. He says, I want you to stay on the main line. I want you to get an education, and I want you to get out one day and be able to give back to the community. So I didn't become a brand member or an Aryan Nation brotherhood because that lifestyle, once I would have crossed over, I would have never got out.

[A]

Peter didn't fully commit to the Aryan Nation, but he did put in some work.

[D]

From 84 to 89. I was. I wasn't pleasant to be around. I did my job. I handled business. I did what I was asked. You know, I. I didn't let nobody get away with nothing.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

The reason I made a change today is because of what he taught me. Stuck.

[B]

Wait, but he was an Aryan Nation guy that pulled you in but then pushed you out?

[D]

Yeah, and pushed me out because he seen that I was liking it too much. He seen that I was stabbing too many people. He seen that I was, you know, just crazy. He says, man, I didn't realize I unleashed a beast in you. He goes, well, what's up with you, man? Why are you like that? And I said, you know, I'm just somebody who doesn't take nothing from nobody. If I even feel that you're looking at me wrong, I'm gonna get you.

[B]

So why.

[D]

That's how it was.

[B]

Why do you think he cared?

[D]

I think he saw himself in me, and I think because he was just like me, you know, I was much younger. I was still a teenager.

[B]

Wow.

[D]

I just turned 18.

[B]

Do you think that having your face and all these tattoos on your body can, in some ways, operate as a mask that allows you to do things that you might not be able to do if you didn't have them?

[D]

I Didn't get it for that reason. To keep people away from me or to show them that you don't want to mess with a guy like me. But when I went to prison, it did help me. It did show people, like, wow, you know, don't mess with this guy. Yeah, it helped me in a lot of ways. I'll give you that. It did help me in a lot of ways. It kept people away from me and I didn't have as much problems because they took one look at me and they didn't want to mess with me.

[B]

How many women's names do you have tattooed on you?

[D]

Three.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

I've only been with three women my whole life.

[B]

And you have a tattoo for each of them?

[D]

Yeah. Mary on my shoulder.

[B]

Okay, now tell me about Mary.

[D]

I was a virgin when I got out. I went in when I was 13. I was 22. When I got out, I was a virgin. I loved her, you know, in that sense because I. You know what I mean? And I, wow. I don't want to let her go, you know, this is my girl. She opened my eyes to a relationship with a woman. She opened my eyes to being a heroin addict. Jennifer, she was more of a hippie type, peace loving. And I don't know how we ended up together. Our lifestyles were totally different. She made me understand the reason behind everything that I went through with my tattoos because I've been out with my tattoos before. She helped me understand not to be discouraged, to be open minded, to allow people to be who they are, whether they think bad about you or not. And that I had no right to judge them based on how they see me or what they think of me. And she made me promise to still be cordial and respectful, even if I thought somebody was being mean to me because of it. That I was supposed to, like, nod and wave and say hi. And I thought, well, isn't that a little extreme? She goes, well, isn't your face a little extreme? I told her, yeah. She goes, there you go. It's extreme for them, just as extreme for you.

[B]

Sounds like an interesting woman.

[D]

She was. And I wanted to marry her, but she passed away too. She OD'd. She was my dream girl, Heather, on my. My lower back.

[B]

Can you tell me something about Heather?

[D]

Heather was a call girl. I fell in love with a call girl back in 95, and we stayed together 22 years. When I met her, she was working with an escort. She was on a call with two guys. And I just got out of Tracy in 95. And I was walking down Palm Springs Strip, and I fell in love. It was love at first sight with her. It was more of a attraction, animal type. I seen the way she was, piercings, a couple of tattoos. It was the first time ever I seen anything like it. And I thought, wow, she's crazy. I approached these two guys and I said, excuse me, and I pushed the guy to the side, and I told the other guy, excuse me. I pushed him to the side. I got on my knees. I put her foot, her high heel, 9 inch high heel on my leg, and I rubbed her foot, and I said, I'm in love with you. She tried to pull it back, and I said, excuse me. You didn't hear what I said. I said, I'm in love with you. And these guys said, hey, we paid for our time. Which I didn't know what they were talking about. I didn't know she was a co girl, so I took my shirt off. They seen all the tattoos of the muscles, and they said, wow. I said, look, if you don't want to pay for my time, I suggest you give me 10 minutes with a young lady. We're going to have a drink, and if she like what she hears, then we're going home together. How does that sound? They said, well, we don't have no problem. I said, thank you. Well, we stayed together 22 years. I'm glad I got to experience three different relationships. You know, one was with the vices and the drugs that were no good, and one was the foundation of real love, something that had meaning and substance. And the third relationship with Heather. She accepted me for who I was, and no matter who I was or what I did, I accepted her for who she was.

[B]

If you had to make a new tattoo in honor of Jennifer, what would it be?

[D]

It would be me and her holding hands, standing there looking at the flowers and the sun. I think that anybody who experiences being locked up at an early age, all they really want is someone to really love them and some kind of peace without all the anger and frustrations that they go through being locked away. That's what Jennifer brought me.

[B]

You don't have a lot of canvas left. So where would you put this tattoo?

[D]

I saved two spots on my side right here.

[B]

Peter pointed to these two spaces on either side of his torso. One he was saving for his mom and the other for Jennifer.

[D]

Those are the only two women in my life that ever loved me unconditionally, so I think that they deserve it.

[B]

I guess it turns out you're sort Of a softy.

[D]

Yeah. You know. Yeah. You know, and I think that my Aryan brother, I think he saw it in me, and I think that's why he chose a different path for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what's missing from this episode, Nige?

[B]

What's that?

[A]

The women.

[B]

Okay, well, you're right about that. And we actually did a bunch of interviews with women for this episode, and we were, you know, initially really excited about it. But I hate to say this, you know, pretty much all of the interviews came down to this stereotype about women coming to prison. You know, that they gain a bunch of weight, they get out of shape, and I just. I couldn't get my heart or my mind around doing a story like that. Just couldn't.

[A]

But what if it's true?

[B]

I don't know. I mean, I just feel like we had to dig deeper than that.

[A]

I don't know. Nyjah. You find it pretty cool to talk about a lot of men stereotypes. It was easy.

[B]

Well, okay, that is true.

[A]

Here's some bias over here, Nas.

[B]

No, there definitely is. I'm gonna have to do a little bit of soul searching about my ability to easily stereotype men. Sorry about that. But we are definitely going to do an episode about what happens to women's bodies in prison. I just want to push a little bit deeper. Okay, we're going to get to it. I know.

[A]

We'll do it, but, you know, you're going to have to do that one on your own because, you know, I. You know, I just don't want to be that dude asking women how they feel about their bodies. You know, that's. That's asking for. That's asking for a lot of trouble, you know?

[B]

Yeah, no, I hear you.

[A]

I ain't trying to set myself up, Nigel.

[B]

I would never let you.

[A]

Okay, I'll let you lead the way. I'll let you lead the way.

[B]

Ear Hustle is produced by Nigel Poor, Earlonne Woods, Amy Standen, Bruce Wallace, and Kat Shuknik.

[A]

Shabnam Sigman is the managing producer.

[B]

The producing team Inside San Quentin includes Darrell Siddiq Davis and Tom Nguyen. Our inside managing producer is Tony Tafoya.

[A]

Thanks to Warden Andes at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, Acting Warden Padilla, Associate Warden Lewis and PIO Lt. Avena at the California Institution for Women, and Warden Dela Cruz and PIO Lt. Vogel at the Central California Women's Facility for their support of the show. And as you know, every episode of Ear Hustle has to be approved by a public information officer. This week, it's this woman here. Hello, Lieutenant Barry, this is Earlonne and Nigel.

[I]

Good morning. We got the crew on the line.

[B]

We're checking in to get your approval

[I]

and see if you got anything to

[B]

say about this particular episode.

[I]

Yes, everything that you all mentioned in the episode took place. Yes, I did pause it. Yes, I was thinking about whether or not you all thought about me. The thing about the episode is I pretty much stuck to the standard if it does not jeopardize the safety and security of the institution or discredit the department and what we have going on, I am absolutely going to approve it. Yes, we do have episodes that are going to be controversial, sometimes hard to talk about or don't want to talk about, but is it something that actually happens behind these walls? Absolutely. And so, yeah, Lieutenant Giamari Berry. I am the public information officer here at San Quentin Rehabilitation center and I do approve this episode.

[B]

Bruce Wallace, Earlonne woods and Darrell Siddiq Davis sound designed the show. Fernando Arruda and Harry Culhane are our engineers.

[A]

Music for this episode comes from Antwan Williams, David Josse, Dwight Chrisman and Darrell Sadiq Davison.

[B]

For more information about this episode, check out the show notes on Ear Hustle's website, earhustlesq.com Ear Hustle receives support from

[A]

the Just Trust building a smaller, more humane engine of justice and safety across the country.

[B]

And if you want to learn more about this episode and all of our episodes, sign up for our monthly email newsletter, the Lowdown.

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You can see photos, go behind the scenes of our episodes and find out what we're up to. Sign [e-mail] Newsletter and you can also

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find us on social media, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Bluesky and TikTok. Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia from prx, a network of independent, creator owned listener supported podcasts.

[A]

Discover audio with vision at Radiotopia fm.

[B]

I'm Nigel Poor.

[A]

I'm Earlonne Wood. Thanks for listening.

[B]

You know what else Earlund will do? We'll be in a random place and there'll be a scale there and he'll get on it.

[D]

Good.

[B]

No, you don't know if it's accurate and it could ruin your whole day. Like why, why do you do that to yourself? Like we might be visiting in prison and there'll be a scale in the hallway and you'll get on it. You're glutton for punishment.

[A]

Hey listeners, don't forget to donate today to help us reach our goal of 1,000 donors.

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Exactly. And every single G helps us get closer to our goal.

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Head to earhustlesq.com donate to learn more and make your tax deductible. Heard that? Tax deductible donation. It only takes a minute and you can even use Venmo.

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Venmo? Are you serious?

[A]

We making it easy.

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Whoa. Anyway, thank you so much for supporting our show.

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