Dear Ear Hustle

Summary

Ear Hustle – “Dear Ear Hustle” (March 18, 2026)

Hosts: Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods
Podcast: Ear Hustle from Radiotopia (PRX)

---

Overview:

This heartfelt episode, “Dear Ear Hustle,” spotlights the profound relationship between the show and its audience, focusing on letters from listeners and people impacted by incarceration. Through reading and responding to these letters—ranging from deeply personal stories to feedback and life-changing decisions—the hosts illustrate how Ear Hustle bridges the gap between inside and outside prison walls, offering solace, connection, and understanding.

---

Key Themes and Discussion Points

1. The Power and Intimacy of Letters

• Letters as Lifelines: The episode is structured around letters received from listeners, incarcerated individuals, and their loved ones. Letter writing is depicted as a deeply intimate, yet safely distanced, means of connection.
• The Archive: The hosts describe sifting through years’ worth of letters, highlighting their pivotal role in shaping both the podcast and the personal journeys of contributors.
• Quote:

  “Well, letters have always been an important part of the show, Earlonne. And in fact, I think you remember that one of the things that got me into San Quentin was, in fact, a letter.”
  — Nigel Poor (06:43)

[05:38 – 07:36]

The hosts introduce the segment by reminiscing about keeping and reading every letter. Nigel shares how a misdelivered letter led her to San Quentin—a twist of fate that changed her life and the foundation of Ear Hustle.

---

2. Stigma, Disclosure, and Reentry: Caroline Mullen’s Story

[08:30 – 19:47]

• Caroline Mullen from Ireland, a former federal prisoner, writes about the challenge of when to disclose her past to potential romantic partners.
• Caroline shares her experience of being deeply stigmatized in Ireland, as her background is unique (few women are incarcerated there).
• Disclosure Dilemma: Caroline describes the emotional weight of either revealing or concealing her prison history in relationships, knowing it significantly alters others’ perceptions of her.
• The conversation delves into the ethics of honesty in dating versus self-protection, with Earlonne comparing disclosure to revealing other deeply personal traumas.
• Quotes:

  "I just wanted to reach out and communicate with people who have similar kind of, you know, sort of not such a smooth road."
  — Caroline Mullen (20:10)
  "You spent 10 years in prison. That's part of who you are. That was not a blip. That was 10 years of my life. I lost everything."
  — Caroline Mullen (19:10)

[13:16 – 17:19]

Caroline describes finding comfort and eventual disillusionment in forming a pen pal relationship with an incarcerated man—highlighting themes of loneliness, vulnerability, and betrayal. This experience also reinforces her belief in the importance of disclosure.

---

3. The Ripple Effect of Incarceration on Families: Gabby’s Story

[23:43 – 28:35]

• Gabby, a school psychologist and long-time Ear Hustle listener, relates her journey after her husband Justin is sentenced to six years for financial crimes and assault.
• She describes the shock and practical realities of suddenly becoming a single parent, the awkward conversations with her children, and the emotional emptiness left in Justin’s absence.
• Gabby’s professional background aids her in communicating honestly (but age-appropriately) with her young kids about Justin’s incarceration, reducing fear and stigma for the next generation.
• Quotes:

  “He has a man cave downstairs. It's just like, all his stuff's just, like, there. I go in sometimes I just stand and look around. I'm like, this is like, you can feel that nobody has been in this space in a very long time.”
  — Gabby (27:19)
  “I am of the personal belief that we need to tell kids the truth in an age appropriate way so they don't need all the details, but they need to know what's going on.”
  — Gabby (26:32)

---

4. Healing, Loss, and Transformative Relationships: Jen and Ricky’s Correspondence

[34:32 – 47:55]

• Listener Jen shares how writing to a man named Ricky Davis in Angola Prison, inspired by the episode “Respect the Paper,” profoundly changed both their lives.
• Their initially cautious and boundaried correspondence becomes an enduring friendship involving the exchange of hundreds of letters, joint book readings, and shared life reflections—even as Jen maintains a platonic boundary despite Ricky’s initial hopes for romance.
• After Ricky’s diagnosis with terminal brain cancer, Jen visits him, recounts the emotional farewells, and describes his final words and legacy.
• Even posthumously, Jen continues to write letters to Ricky as a means of processing grief and honoring connection.
• Quotes:

  “Something about it stayed with me long after it ended. I had never written to an incarcerated person before, but that episode stirred something in me.”
  — Jen (34:37)
  “The last thing he said to me that I could understand was I won. That was in April [2025]. And then he passed May 8th on his birthday.”
  — Jen (45:55)

---

5. Letters as Ongoing Conversation, Connection, and Hope

• The episode closes with the acknowledgment that contact—especially by mail—can be transformative, healing, and also risky. The hosts invite listeners to write to Ear Hustle, with the reminder that “you never know what will happen when you send a letter and someone opens it.” (49:55)
• The importance of supporting and understanding people impacted by incarceration is underscored repeatedly, with listeners' stories echoing experiences of grief, stigma, resilience, and human connection.

---

Notable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• On Disclosure & Stigma:

  “If you tell somebody right away, it's too much information... But then, you don't want to make somebody feel like you've held something back that's important.”
  — Caroline Mullen (10:35)

• On Relationships and Prison:

  “Having a relationship with somebody who's incarcerated allows you to have a measure of control, and there's a safety in it.”
  — Caroline Mullen (14:17)

• On Grief and Loss:

  “Your sharing of these stories and insights has helped me process my grief of my own brother's death from suicide after being released from his time incarcerated. Thank you for going through it with me and helping me feel a little less alone during the hardest months of my life.”
  — Jen (32:49)

• On the Ongoing Impact of Correspondence:

  “Sometimes I'm writing about what happened, and sometimes I'm just like writing to him about my day. I just don't know really how to stop writing.”
  — Jen (47:00)

---

Closing Reflections

This episode is both a testament to the transformative power of sharing and listening and a reminder of the complex, enduring impacts of incarceration—not only for those inside, but for families, pen pals, and communities. By sharing authentic accounts through listener letters, the Ear Hustle team nurtures empathy, challenges stigma, and celebrates the resilience found in unlikely connections.

---

How to Reach Ear Hustle

If you want to send your own letter, write to:
Ear Hustle, P.O. Box 883-723, San Francisco, CA 94188

---

For more, visit earhustlesq.com or subscribe to Ear Hustle.

Transcript

[Earlonne Woods]

Did you ever wonder what it's like to live alone, hidden in the woods, not speaking to a single soul for 30 years? Or wander the desert, uncover a hidden well and dive to the bottom of the deepest water hole for 2,000 miles? The snapdraget podcast takes you there with amazing stories told by the people who live them with an original soundscape that drops you directly into their sho snap judgment. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcast.

[Nigel Poor]

This episode of Ear Hustle is brought to you by Progressive Insurance Fiscally responsible

[Earlonne Woods]

financial geniuses, Monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive

[Nigel Poor]

and save Hundreds of Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty

[Earlonne Woods]

Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne I love looking at these photos from our recent west coast tour.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know we was looking pretty fly up there on that stage.

[Nigel Poor]

Yes, I know you and I are pretty flashy, but to make flash work you also have to have some high quality staples. You know, like your go tos for sure.

[Earlonne Woods]

And that's where Quince comes in. And I've definitely, definitely seeing you rocking some of your quince pieces on tour.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh man, my Quince cotton cashmere sweater has become my go to. I like it because it's light enough for layering, but it still feels luxurious and it didn't cost anywhere close to what I thought a quality cashmere sweater would cost.

[Earlonne Woods]

Quince makes high quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, 100% silk and Nigel's favorite lightweight cotton cashmere. Perfect for the changing seasons.

[Nigel Poor]

It is my favorite. Earlonne with Quint works directly with safe ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. You're not paying for brand markup or fancy retail stores, just quality clothing right now.

[Earlonne Woods]

Go to quints.com earhustle for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear and love it and you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to q u I-n c e.com earhustle for free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Nigel Poor]

Quince.com.

[Earlonne Woods]

Before we start the show we got some news for our friends on the east Coast. We are bringing our live show to you at the end of May.

[Nigel Poor]

Yep, we are going to be in

[Earlonne Woods]

Baltimore, Philadelphia, Brooklyn and one of my

[Nigel Poor]

favorite parts of the country. We are going to be in Western Massachusetts, specifically Northampton, Massachusetts. Dates and tickets are on our website. Earhustlesq.com tour come check us out. Hi, I'm Anne.

[Jen]

From Books to Prisoners, we're currently working on our second edition of Dear Letters from the Incarcerated. This episode of Ear Hustle contains language and content that may not be appropriate for all listeners. Discretion is advised. Dear Ear Hustle.

[Earlonne Woods]

Hey, Ear Hustle. What's up?

[Jen]

Ear Hustle.

[Caroline Mullen]

Hi, Ear Hustle.

[Earlonne Woods]

What's going on?

[Jen]

Ear Hustle.

[Earlonne Woods]

Dear Ear Hustle, I just wanted to say

[Jen]

because of your show, I decided to become a prison chaplain and have started volunteering with Prison Fellowship here in Georgia. There is a women's facility in my hometown and I'm able to go every week and teach classes, participate in art therapy sessions, and even do some music for the participants that have navigated this

[Earlonne Woods]

part of their lives.

[Jen]

It has been a rewarding experience for me that never would have materialized had it not been for your show.

[Earlonne Woods]

After listening to your podcast Sorry Means Nothing and the Trail, the obvious bias against sexual offenders is evident. As a sexual offender, your mentality is what prevented me from receiving any help in self help classes or peer mentor situations.

[Nigel Poor]

I loved hearing Lieutenant Robinson open up over the years of his approval messages then. Lt. Barry was so by the book until this episode. Honestly, it made my eyes tear up.

[Earlonne Woods]

Will she sing in the years to come? I just listened to the episode about mothers and I was moved to tears. I have a daughter who was in prison in Massachusetts for a year.

[Jen]

I will be going in for my

[Nigel Poor]

three year prison sentence in a few

[Earlonne Woods]

weeks and I am scared about my life afterwards. I didn't think it could happen to

[Nigel Poor]

me until it did.

[Jen]

And I think most people feel that exact same way.

[Earlonne Woods]

And it's very easy to villainize the

[Nigel Poor]

people that end up in prison until you are one yourself.

[Jen]

I must say that I'm quite sad how in the first couple of minutes,

[Caroline Mullen]

Nigel has used the F word twice already.

[Jen]

Just because the show deals with hard

[Caroline Mullen]

subject matter that I appreciate doesn't mean

[Jen]

that it needs to become so crass like this. Please consider toning it back and making

[Caroline Mullen]

it a rare, uncommon thing in the

[Jen]

show to swear not even at all would be great.

[Nigel Poor]

All right, so we're standing over by this filing cabinet and you know, this is where we keep all of the letters that we've received over the years.

[Earlonne Woods]

Well, yeah, you know, we've been doing this for what, over a decade.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh my God, you're right. No wonder we have so many letters. And of course, they're all kept in binders. Right? So wait a minute. Will you just hand me One of those binders.

[Earlonne Woods]

Sure.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, they're heavy.

[Earlonne Woods]

That one is heavy. Heavy.

[Nigel Poor]

I love going through these, Earlonne. It's so great to think of art history through letters and postcards. Right.

[Earlonne Woods]

This one here is from Tokyo. And they say, I just wanted to write to say how much I enjoyed listening to your podcast, Earlonne.

[Nigel Poor]

Here's the one from the guy, Rooster, who said. Remember he said in prison he had that listening club. They would listen to the Ear Hustle and they would talk about it through the vents. Nice.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, that had me laughing.

[Nigel Poor]

Totally. Well, we've definitely gotten a lot of mail over the years.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. And we've read pretty much every one of them. I don't even say pretty much. We've read every one of them exactly. Because once a month, the team sits down, and while we eat lunch, we read through the letters that just come in.

[Nigel Poor]

Well, letters have always been an important part of the show, Earlonne. And in fact, I think you remember that one of the things that got me into San Quentin was, in fact, a letter.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, do you remember I told you

[Nigel Poor]

it got misdelivered to my house? It was the completely wrong address. And I think it happened three times. And if that didn't happen, if that letter didn't get delivered to me, misdelivered to me, I might not never have gone into. I might not never. I might have never gone into San Quentin.

[Caroline Mullen]

Never.

[Earlonne Woods]

And damn, would I still be in San Quentin.

[Nigel Poor]

It's a scary road to go down. You never know what's going to happen when you get a letter and you open it.

[Earlonne Woods]

Well, that's exactly what we're going to do today. Read some letters and see where they take us.

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm Earlonne Woods.

[Nigel Poor]

And I'm Nigel Poor. This is ear hustle from PRX's. Radiotopia.

[Earlonne Woods]

Texas. Delaware.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

Seattle, North Carolina. Ooh, here's from England. Canterbury.

[Jen]

Soon as they find out that I've been in prison, because I always like

[Earlonne Woods]

to tell them, don't, don't let that be later, man.

[Jen]

Well, I tried that on. I met a woman on a dating site. So she's like, well, let's just go have a cup of coffee. And so I texted her back and

[Gabby]

I said, well, it's just not that easy.

[Jen]

And she says, well, what's your problem? What are you hiding? What do you mean, it's not that easy? Well, I have to get prior approval. Governor's got it signed off on it, you know, the whole nine yards.

[Earlonne Woods]

The governor, ah, he was exaggerating.

[Nigel Poor]

I Guess so. That was a clip from an episode we did back in 2019 called I Want the Fairy Tale. It's a story about the challenges of starting to date again after you get out of prison.

[Earlonne Woods]

And that episode inspired one of our listeners, Caroline, to write us a letter with her own story.

[Caroline Mullen]

September 9, 2019. Subject when to tell them. I spent 10 years in the feds for armed bank robbery and have been out for 10 years. The issue of when to tell a potential partner has been a huge issue for me. I've had my heart broken because of it. I live in Ireland, and they barely incarcerate women here, so I truly am beyond the pale in the experience of

[Jen]

men in my community.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm a little bit embarrassed to admit this, but like, a week ago, I. We reread this letter that we got, like, maybe, like, five years ago, and we finally decided to respond to it. We called up Caroline in Ireland, you know, to hear a bit more about her story.

[Caroline Mullen]

I'm Caroline Mullen, and I'm recording from Galway, Ireland, which is on the west coast of Ireland. I wanted to come back here as soon as I could so that I could be with my daughter again after I got out.

[Nigel Poor]

So were you born in the U.S.

[Caroline Mullen]

yeah, I was born. I'm from Chicago.

[Earlonne Woods]

Before she went to prison, Caroline was living in Las Vegas. And there's a long backstory that we're not gonna get into. I'll just say that when Caroline was in her 30s, she committed a string of bank robberies.

[Nigel Poor]

She served 10 years, and then was able to finish her sentence in Ireland because she has dual citizenship. And when she finished her sentence, that's where she began her life again. So one of the things you said was that there's a real stigma against formerly incarcerated women in Ireland. Can you talk a little bit about that?

[Caroline Mullen]

Yeah. They don't really put women in prison here. It's so hard for a woman to go to prison here. Since I've been out, I have not met any Irish women that have been to prison.

[Nigel Poor]

Wait, how long have you been out of prison?

[Caroline Mullen]

15 years.

[Nigel Poor]

15 years.

[Caroline Mullen]

Okay.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

So could you tell us a story about dating and how this has affected you?

[Caroline Mullen]

It's so awkward, because if you tell somebody right away, it's too much information. Like, when you first meet somebody, you don't owe them your life story. But then, on the other hand, you don't want to make somebody feel like you've held something back that's important that they should know about before they spend time with you. I did Date a guy. And I waited a little bit to tell him, and when I did tell him, he basically broke off with me and said that he wanted to have children and if he wasn't able to have children, he wanted to be able to adopt. And he just didn't think his family would be comfortable with me. You know, I still think about him and I still wish things had worked out, but he. He almost felt like betrayed that I hadn't told him right away. And it was almost like, well, why didn't you tell me this? I wouldn't have dated you. I really don't know how to handle it. Still to this day, I'm not sure how to navigate that.

[Earlonne Woods]

And then in that case, why even share at all? It was in another country, another time.

[Caroline Mullen]

Yeah, you think, you don't think, in your opinion, I shouldn't mention it if

[Earlonne Woods]

it's not serving your interest? I'm just curious

[Caroline Mullen]

because people tell me, like, why don't I lie about my age? Why don't you lie and say you're 45 or 50? And it's like, because I don't want to start a relationship off with a lie.

[Earlonne Woods]

I don't personally think a person has the right to know. You know, I personally don't think so. I think that sometime, like, and this is a different scenario, but sometimes people are molested and they don't tell nobody

[Caroline Mullen]

about that and they don't have to.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know what I'm saying? Like, you don't owe that to people.

[Caroline Mullen]

But there's a difference between if you were molested or if you molested somebody.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's a very, very different, very different. Big difference.

[Caroline Mullen]

There's a big difference. So, like, whereas I don't care if I'm. I mean, I. If I'm with a partner and he was molested and raped as a child, like, I would hope he would be able to share that with me. But if he couldn't and he didn't want to, and he didn't ever feel the need to, that's his business, Right? But if he had molested somebody, I would want to friggin know.

[Earlonne Woods]

So during this period where Caroline's trying to date and everyone keeps breaking it off with her because she's been to prison, she was very lonely. And she remembered that when she was in prison, something that helped her time go by was having pen pals on the outside, right?

[Nigel Poor]

And so she looked into finding a pen pal not for romance, but just somebody who she could connect with and who would kind of understand her Experience.

[Caroline Mullen]

I actually entered into it just thinking, hey, I can give back some support. Because when I was inside, I had pen pals, so I looked for somebody who did drawing and painting. I'm an artist as well. And I started writing him. And, you know, we talked about art and things like that, and then it just slid into love. And I was alone and I was lonely. And obviously, he's lonely.

[Earlonne Woods]

Do you recall after you wrote him the first letter that he wrote you back?

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

Do you recall what it was like?

[Caroline Mullen]

Just beautiful, poetic and deep. And he spoke about very serious philosophical concepts that appealed to me and the depth of his knowledge about art. So, yeah, I remember I can still see, like, his handwriting, you know, so there's an intimacy with writing, isn't there? It's very romantic.

[Nigel Poor]

How often did you write?

[Caroline Mullen]

A couple times a week.

[Nigel Poor]

And did you talk on the phone?

[Caroline Mullen]

We were talking on the phone all the time.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Caroline Mullen]

And I talked to his mom on the phone. And I was thinking about going to visit. I think that for someone like me who's been in an abusive relationship and is sort of having a hard time connecting with people for whatever reason, having a relationship with somebody who's incarcerated allows you to have a measure of control, and there's a safety in it. There's no, like, risk of you actually having to, you know, be at risk with them. There's bars between you. Yeah. So you get, like, all the emotional intimacy without any of the physical risk.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. You also can build this big fantasy around it.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Caroline Mullen]

You can push whatever fantasy you want on that person.

[Nigel Poor]

So in the beginning, it felt like this relationship was going well. You know, they had a lot in common, and there was so much to talk about. It was intimate, but safe.

[Earlonne Woods]

But then, over time, things got a little weird.

[Caroline Mullen]

I retrained, learning website development, but he was basically, like, sort of pimping me out to do websites for people or trying to. I was just like, dude. Part of it I know, was that he was very frustrated. He wanted to act in the world, and so he sort of felt like he was acting through me.

[Nigel Poor]

So was he trying to make money off of you or just get contacts with people?

[Caroline Mullen]

I think both. Then there was the lie about his. He had no date. He got life without parole. I thought he had life with parole. It probably wouldn't even have stopped me from being romantically involved with him. But the lie.

[Nigel Poor]

Well, this comes back to the conversation about being honest with people. And when you find out something, it is destabilizing.

[Earlonne Woods]

And how did you find out he had life without her.

[Caroline Mullen]

I got the court records. I was suspicious.

[Earlonne Woods]

And what brought the suspicion on him?

[Caroline Mullen]

Trying to get me to do things for all these people on the outside. I draw a line with people who've hurt women or children. He told me that he had killed his father, but he had actually killed his stepmother and his father.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. I mean, I think this. I don't think those things you can really keep from somebody.

[Caroline Mullen]

Yeah. Like, obviously, I'm gonna find out if I've got half a brain, especially because I was inside. I'd been inside myself. And he knew I knew how to, like, read paper and how to get paper.

[Nigel Poor]

So it sounds like. I mean, ultimately he was a manipulator.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

And that's what you picked up on?

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

So after that experience you had with that guy, does the stigma that people have about formerly incarcerated people make any sense to you at all?

[Caroline Mullen]

I completely understand why someone might be hesitant, because before I went to prison, I've always, like, I actually did know people that had been in prison. But it's something that I would want to know why I would want to know the circumstances behind it. I would look at them a lot more carefully because, like, we know that there's a much higher percentage of people with personality disorders in prison. Right. And basically those are fairly incurable. Right. That's why I think people have a right to know.

[Earlonne Woods]

Do you think that people that meet you today would ever have the even inkling to think that you've been to prison?

[Caroline Mullen]

No, they never.

[Earlonne Woods]

So the question is, why volunteer that information? Whole nother country, whole nother time, and it ain't gonna get you where you wanna be.

[Caroline Mullen]

I know, I know. It's like this. What if they find out? Okay. Like, say, for example, me with my guy that I was writing to, like, he took a shot that I wouldn't look up his name. Like, there was nothing in the papers. I had to write to the court and get his papers to find out. And he was, like, gambling that I would never do that. So in a way, if you don't tell somebody, I'm gambling that they're never going to find out.

[Nigel Poor]

I guess the question is, how comfortable can somebody be with that? Some people might not care, but other people might be living on tenterhooks. Like, this is going to come out at some point, and how is that going to affect the relationship?

[Caroline Mullen]

And they could turn around and go, look, you were never honest with me

[Jen]

about who you are.

[Caroline Mullen]

You spent 10 years in prison. That's part of who you are. That was not a blip. That was 10 years of my life. I lost everything. I was a whole different person before that. But, I mean, hopefully I'll meet that person who can see me for who I am and love me for who I am and just look at me and say, wow, you survived all that and you got out, you retrained yourself, and you built a life. Shouldn't the right person be able to see past that?

[Nigel Poor]

So when you wrote to us, what made you reach out to us? What was your sort of hope that would come from that? I don't know.

[Caroline Mullen]

I guess I feel lonely. I feel like I meet people and it's like their lives have been so calm and so smooth and so sweet and, you know, and, like.

[Jen]

I don't know.

[Caroline Mullen]

I guess I just wanted to reach out and communicate with people who have similar kind of, you know, sort of not such a smooth road.

[Nigel Poor]

I think what's interesting about letters is, you know, just like Caroline said, there's an intimacy, but also a distance that's there that can make people feel safe. And Caroline has been on both sides of that.

[Earlonne Woods]

She told us a story about a French woman who used to write her when she was in prison.

[Caroline Mullen]

My French pen pal. She used to send me art, and she used to send me books, and she wrote other prisoners as well.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Caroline Mullen]

And then, like, when I got out, we just cut contact. She didn't want to meet me on the outside. She just wanted to. She just, like, wrote people as a kind of form of service. Yeah, it hurt my feelings, actually, because I had. Because with me coming to Ireland and her being in France, I thought I could meet up with her, but. Yeah, yeah, but she just. That was her line of that. She just likes to support people while they're down. And, you know, I appreciated that. So I still have her artwork, you know, that she sent me, some of the beautiful watercolors she sent me.

[Nigel Poor]

I heard Earlonne mention birds in one

[Jen]

of the podcast episodes. There are many positives to birding, including a chance to learn about the natural

[Nigel Poor]

world and bird's place in it.

[Gabby]

The local Audubon Society closest to San Quentin would be a great starting point for getting information about a coordinator for a club or birding group in San Quentin. Birds are everywhere, and it's really a great hobby.

[Earlonne Woods]

I think it would honor victims and respect listeners if each episode included a brief disclosure at the end identifying the person and the offense they were convicted of. That would allow listeners to decide whether to learn more or simply sit with the story. You chose to tell. I hope you'll consider making that change. If not, I may need to stop listening.

[Nigel Poor]

At 17 years old, my son was arrested and subsequently sentenced to ten and a half years in prison.

[Caroline Mullen]

I was at a loss of how

[Nigel Poor]

to manage my fear, anxiety, and utter despair. I was trying to find anything to help me understand what he would be going through and what life might be for him.

[Earlonne Woods]

I didn't understand the need for the Shine Some Light episode. There are hundreds of TV shows and

[Caroline Mullen]

podcasts focused on victims and telling their stories.

[Earlonne Woods]

Please stay focused on prisons and those who are incarcerated. This episode was strangely emotional for me. I have a brother with a life sentence and I do my best to send photos monthly. It always makes me feel kind of bad, like I'm rubbing our fun times in his face. But he says he loves to see him.

[Gabby]

Hello, Ear Hustle. I have been a longtime subscriber to the podcast and heavy listener. Never in a million years did I ever think that it would be so relatable and necessary for my life.

[Earlonne Woods]

We've actually gotten a few letters like this from people who were longtime listeners of the show. And then something happened that made it personal.

[Gabby]

I'm gabby. I am 33 years old. I'm married to Justin. We have two little kids. I'm a school psychologist. I love Jesus. I like to read. I like to bake. I sometimes like to run when I get the time. On August 19, 2024, my husband Justin was sentenced to six years in prison.

[Nigel Poor]

Did you see this coming in your life?

[Gabby]

No. No, never. No.

[Earlonne Woods]

Gabby's husband was found guilty of financial crimes and a separate assault charge and sentenced to six years in prison. What is it like going just from a normal marriage to this?

[Gabby]

Um, it was literally like overnight we went in for his plea deal just to cause he was gonna plead guilty. And then our lawyer was saying, okay, he'll do the plea and then we'll come back maybe in a month for sentencing. But when we got there and he said his plea, the judge is like, well, you literally have zero time served. We might as well just sentence you now and take you to prison. So I definitely wasn't expecting it that day.

[Nigel Poor]

Am I crazy? That part really shocked me that you would go to, you know, plead guilty. I would never think in a million years. And then they're like, okay, you go to jail now. I thought you'd have time to, like, settle your counts and things.

[Earlonne Woods]

Usually they give you that 30 day window to come back enduring sentencing.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

But the judge was like, hey, man, come on, let's go.

[Nigel Poor]

How did you say goodbye?

[Gabby]

Um, I. We, like, stood up in the courtroom, you know, I gave him a big hug and a kiss, and then they just walked him back through a door and, like, that was it. And then I went home and sat on the couch. I had a blanket. I had the TV on. I couldn't remember what I was watching. And I was just like, I can't believe this is, like, real. Like, I can't believe that, like, he's not here. And I have to go pick up the kids and then come home and tell him it didn't feel real. So I picked him up from daycare. We came home, we sat in the kitchen, and I basically said, you know, daddy is not coming home. He did something bad and he now has to go to jail. I counted it in birthday. So I think I said, he'll be there for, like, four birthdays before he gets to come home. And I think I asked him, like, do you have any questions? And then they're like, nope. And then they kind of just went back to their little normal, like, can I get a snack? Can I watch tv? So it was very matter of fact for them there.

[Earlonne Woods]

What is your profession?

[Gabby]

I'm a school psychologist.

[Earlonne Woods]

Do you think that help you?

[Gabby]

Absolutely. I have hard conversations with kids all the time. And I also am of the personal belief that we need to tell kids the truth in an age appropriate way so they don't need all the details, but they need to know what's going on, are naturally curious. So if they know, oh, I can come to Mommy when I, you know, have questions. Wait, what's Daddy in there? Why is he in there? And I was like, well, you can ask him, or, you know, mommy, I really miss Daddy. Oh, you know what, baby? I miss him too. Starting with the transparency has allowed them to come to me with their questions and concerns because they're not, like, they don't feel like I'm hiding anything from them or they're not, like, scared I'm going to react negatively.

[Earlonne Woods]

Meanwhile, Gabby's also adjusting to not having a husband around. She says the whole house feels different.

[Gabby]

He has a man cave downstairs. It's just like, all his stuff's just, like, there. And I go in sometimes I just stand and look around. I'm like, this is like, you can feel that nobody has been in this space in a very long time.

[Nigel Poor]

What else does it feel like when you go in there?

[Gabby]

Cold and mostly just, like, empty.

[Nigel Poor]

This conversation we had with Gabby took place over Zoom. She was Upstairs in their bedroom while the kids were watching TV downstairs. What's on his side of the bed?

[Gabby]

The catcher's mitt that his grandma mailed us because she's going through and cleaning out his stuff. Just a basket of all his electronics, so game controllers and random pieces of paper notes that the kids would like.

[Caroline Mullen]

Oh, Daddy, look.

[Jen]

I drew you this.

[Gabby]

It's just, like, scribbles. I do have, like, a ton of pillows on the bed, so I, like, put them strategically in, like, a U so I can, like, you know, I don't know, feel, like, closed in. And then whenever I'm ready for bed, I'll, like, read and then put everything away. I'll turn the TV on and turn the sleep timer on and then go to sleep with the TV on. I've cried a lot. I've cried a ton leading up to it and a ton after.

[Nigel Poor]

What is it that triggers the crying? Or what are you thinking about when you're crying?

[Gabby]

Sometimes it's an interaction, like, on the phone that I didn't feel like went well or ended poorly. Sometimes it's a realization of our daughter's learning how to ride a bike, and he's not gonna be here to, like, watch her ride a bike, or she has that ballet recital coming up, and he's not gonna be here to, like, see her ballet recital. Everything feels like it's, like, out of control. So having to submit to, hey, you don't have control over this is difficult for me.

[Earlonne Woods]

All right, Nige, we're going to put the pencils down for a minute. Take a break.

[Nigel Poor]

All right, let's do it.

[Earlonne Woods]

We'll be right back with more letters.

[Nigel Poor]

Hey, Earlonne.

[Earlonne Woods]

What's up, Nige?

[Nigel Poor]

You know, a lot of folks asked me to recommend a new podcast to listen to, and they want something that is different, something that you just don't hear every day.

[Earlonne Woods]

Well, well, I think we got a good one for them. We can tell them about Radiotopia's newest show, Amityville Ville.

[Nigel Poor]

So exciting they had to name it twice, right? Amityville. In Amityville, Alex Goldman, host of Hyper Fix and former host of Reply, all teams up with Caroline Thompson to review all shocking 91. Yes, there are 91 movies in the Amityville franchise.

[Earlonne Woods]

If you like movie recaps, horror, true crime, and pop culture, this show is for you.

[Nigel Poor]

The Amityville Horror became the second highest grossing movie when it came out in 1979, quite a while ago. It inspired books and documentaries and of course, a sprawling and sometimes bizarre film. Franchise.

[Earlonne Woods]

Amityville will feature recaps of all 91 movies in the order they were released and special one off episodes featuring people involved in the making of the films or even in an investigation of the alleged hunting in Amityville, New York.

[Nigel Poor]

Listen to Amityville Ville wherever you get your podcasts and watch out for the flies. If your eyes are the windows to your soul and your glasses are the windows to your eyes, then it's pretty important to find your perfect frames. That's why at Warby Parker, we've made shopping for eyewear as easy and fun as can be.

[Jen]

Peruse endless styles in our stores or

[Nigel Poor]

use our app to virtually try on frames and get personalized recommendations.

[Jen]

To find your next favorite pair of glasses, sunglasses or contact lenses, or to

[Nigel Poor]

locate your nearest Warby Parker store, head over to warbyparker.com that's warbyparker.com this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp NYGE I just

[Earlonne Woods]

remembered that International Women's Day is in March.

[Nigel Poor]

I knew that my friend. But let me ask you this. What does International Women's Day mean to you?

[Earlonne Woods]

I think it's a good time to celebrate women's strength while also recognizing how much they have to carry. You know?

[Nigel Poor]

Yes, I agree with you and I think maybe we need more than one day.

[Earlonne Woods]

For sure. I mean, women's emotional well being is often overlooked, so March is a good time to remind women how much they matter and that therapy offers a space to take care of themselves.

[Nigel Poor]

Therapy can help create balance, set healthy boundaries and support our Overall well being.

[Earlonne Woods]

BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and they are fully licensed in the US and it works. BetterHelp gets an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session. With over 1.7 million client reviews, your

[Nigel Poor]

emotional well being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com betterhelp.com earhustle. Your sharing of these stories and insights

[Jen]

has helped me process my grief of

[Nigel Poor]

my own brother's death from suicide after

[Jen]

being released from his time incarcerated. Thank you for going through it with

[Nigel Poor]

me and helping me feel a little

[Jen]

less alone during the hardest months of my life.

[Nigel Poor]

You assumed you would be treated in

[Earlonne Woods]

a hostile manner simply because the area you were traveling to was, quote, Trump country. The implication being that supporters of Donald TRUMP Over 74 million Americans alone as

[Nigel Poor]

of 2016, by the way, are inherently hostile people. What if you had said, I assume these people would be hostile because it's a black neighborhood. How is that different?

[Earlonne Woods]

Nigel, to be frank, that is prejudiced as hell and very insulting. Good luck to you, and I sincerely

[Nigel Poor]

hope you move past your frankly ignorant assumptions and attitude. I understand that you don't or can't ask people about their specific crimes, but

[Earlonne Woods]

that is very interesting to me, especially when they talk about their lives before they were incarcerated, so I can better

[Nigel Poor]

understand why and how they ended up in their situations. I was surprised how much I didn't like the Loop. Unlike your normal episodes, I found the Loop disjointed and not the usual good production we're used to. I listened to every episode, hoping the story would catch me, but by the end, all I was feeling was sad. I never felt that Earlonne, Nigel, and your staff ever made real connections with the kids, as if the series was being rushed, so there was not enough time. The last episode where you all rehashed the series gave me the feeling that you were trying to convince yourselves that the Loop turned out great and that it was what you were hoping it would be.

[Jen]

Hi Ear Hustle team. I just wanted to share something personal because your show played a direct role in it and it feels important to tell you in 2019. I listened to your episode Respect the Paper. Something about it stayed with me long after it ended. I had never written to an incarcerated person before, but that episode stirred something in me. A few days later, I picked up a pen and wrote my first letter, and that letter changed the course of my life. The person I wrote to was Ricky Davis, who was incarcerated in Angola Prison in Louisiana. We exchanged hundreds of letters over six years. We talked about everything. Faith, philosophy, fear, parenting, dreams, literature, panic attacks, the effects of Hurricane Katrina, and what hope looks like when the world tries to take it from you. He became one of the most important people in my life.

[Nigel Poor]

So after you sent the first letter, how long did it take to hear back from?

[Jen]

I think it was a couple weeks. You know, you can't send them anything, but you can send a book from Amazon if it has, like a receipt. So I sent him light on yoga, and then I hand wrote out a yoga sequence for panic attacks and back pain. And that's kind of how we got started. I remember being really a little bit nervous about writing an incarcerated person because I didn't have any experience with anybody who was incarcerated. And so I was just being very boundaried. I didn't know who he was or why he was there or what his character was like. So it was just like, here's the yoga Book. Here's the yoga sequences. Let me know like after you've completed them and then we'll move on to the next.

[Earlonne Woods]

Do you remember how many pages you wrote?

[Jen]

I actually remember like handwriting out like little stick figures doing yoga poses. So there was like several pages, but a lot of them were like my handmade graphics.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh my gosh. So what was it like when his letter arrived? And do you have a mailbox?

[Jen]

I have a mailbox, yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

And you opened it and you, you know, there's not that many hand addressed envelopes anymore. So what was it? Can you remember what it was like when you, when you saw the letter there?

[Jen]

I think I had mixed feelings. You know, I know this sounds like really woo woo, but I had a feeling when I stamped that first letter and put it in the mailbox that something big was going to happen. And I couldn't tell if it was like a good thing or a bad thing. So I had this very nervous feeling, but it didn't feel neutral. Have you ever had that experience where you have a feeling like there's a track this is going to lead to something that's going to be significant and I don't know if that significant thing is going to be good or bad.

[Nigel Poor]

You spoke about being boundaried. Can you talk about what that meant to feel boundaried and what you were afraid of and what you were excited about?

[Jen]

Yeah, there was two things. Like one, I didn't know who he was or why he was there or what his character was like. But then also I think another part of it was that I felt like, well, what do I have to offer really?

[Earlonne Woods]

Did you not feel that correspondence alone was enough?

[Jen]

Well, I mean, yes and no, Earlonne, because yes, correspondence is enough. But then when you put your pen to the paper, what do you write about?

[Nigel Poor]

What did he have to offer you? Because friendships are built on offering each other something, not just a one sided offer.

[Jen]

I'll tell you, like there is an honest, selfish answer to that, which is there was a very real part of me that liked the idea of having somebody anonymous to write to. I liked the idea of writing somebody who didn't know me and who I thought at the time that I would never meet and didn't know any of my friends and I didn't know any of their people.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you remember when the guards started to come down?

[Jen]

It was very slow. So we were doing the yoga exchange and then we decided to do a book exchange because I could only send something from Amazon. I sent him a book by Octavia Butler called Wildseed. And we read that together and then started to discuss the details of the book. And then we became prolific where I was sending him books and then we were reading them and discussing them together. And that was kind of the window into us relating portions of the book to our own life and our own history. And then that led to me wanting to ask him questions about like why he was there and what his life was like.

[Nigel Poor]

How often did you correspond?

[Jen]

I think that there was over a thousand letters in seven years.

[Earlonne Woods]

At first they was writing letters, like real snail mail letters with those pencils and pens.

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly.

[Earlonne Woods]

But then tablets got introduced into the prison system, which meant Jen and Ricky could basically email each other over a system called JPay.

[Jen]

You know, on Jpay you can send like these like 30 second videos. So I would send him videos of like the ocean or the marketplace in Morocco or a river. And I wouldn't even necessarily talk. Like I would just give him a scene.

[Nigel Poor]

The thing about a correspondence, and we talked about this earlier in the episode, is that it creates, you know, a real intimacy. And because of that intimacy, the intentions aren't always clear and people handle that in different ways.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ricky definitely felt that intimacy. And after several months of writing Jen, he shot his shot.

[Jen]

When we started getting deeper into a friendship with each other. I think that Ricky wanted to have a courtship, which I get, but I was pretty adamant that we were gonna not go in that direction. And Ricky felt like my boundaries around that were like faulty way of thinking, that I was like a hyper independent woman that didn't realize that men and women naturally need each other in a certain kind of way. But my argument was that if we dropped that whole idea and we just allowed ourselves to be non romantic, platonic friends and there was no agenda between us, then we could really have something really real. And he eventually agreed with me that that was like gold.

[Earlonne Woods]

For the next four years they kept writing each other. She'd tell him about her travels, he'd worry about her safety. He'd often send her quick goodnight video messages. She'd send him back videos of something she'd seen that she thought was pretty. A sunset or a moment on the beach.

[Nigel Poor]

And at the end of every letter he'd sign off. Big love, Ricky.

[Jen]

In October of 2024, I got a text message from his daughter in law saying that he had had a seizure. He was diagnosed with a terminal brain cancer called glioblastoma. Sorry if I get a little emotional at this part. It's like a star Shaped cancer in the brain. And then he had two brain surgeries. And I was terrified that he was going to die in prison.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ricky went into hospice. Jenn wanted to be able to say goodbye in person. So a few weeks later, she flew down to Louisiana.

[Nigel Poor]

This was the first time they'd met in person. Jen wrote a list of things that happened that day. She pulled it out and read it to us.

[Jen]

Ricky cried about these things. The bruises on his ankles from being shackled to the hospital bed. How skinny he is and how he's losing himself in mass. God love Israel and Palestine. Something about the Lakota tribes children and his brothers in Angola. Ricky laughed about these things. How good the bread pudding tasted, how good the peas were, how delicious the roasted chicken tasted. Feeding Duke pieces of chicken under the table. I brought my dog.

[Nigel Poor]

And he died at that nursing home.

[Jen]

That's the miracle. I was there for three days. And on the last day that I was there, I was sitting on his bed. I get a text message from his daughter saying, don't say anything, but we're on our way. They lived two hours away. She said, we're on our way. We got the papers. We're gonna take him home. So they showed up, and the nursing home admin wouldn't let him go. She just basically told them, I don't care what papers you have. Like, nobody leaves here unless it's in shackles or a body bag. And so I'm sitting on the bed. Ricky's praying. He's, like, reading from the Quran. And at this point, he's so small from his illness, and he almost looks like a Benedictine monk with his little beanie and his oversized clothes, and he's praying. And I'm just sitting there thinking, this isn't going to happen. And I said to him, I said, ricky, I don't think it's going to happen. And he looked at me and said, it's already happened. And then his family walked in and they said, it's time. Let's go. I guess they got a phone call from someone, and the admin said, I don't know who, you know. Ricky was like, I know who I know. And we walked out together.

[Earlonne Woods]

Good breath, fresh air. Thank you, God.

[Caroline Mullen]

Thank you, God.

[Jen]

They put him in the car in the back seat with his grandson, who was in a car seat next to him, not even a year old. You better put on your seat belt. Look at this. Let's do it. He outlived his life expectancy. So in April, I went back out and got to spend more Time with him at the end of his life. So when I went to go say bye to him the last time, He wasn't very verbal at that point. And so I laid my head on his chest and he was trying to say something to me, but I couldn't understand what he was trying to say. And I said, do you want me to go? And he goes, no, clear as day. And I don't mean to make this sound cliche at all, but the last thing he said to me that I could understand was I won. That was in April. And then he passed May 8th on his birthday. And in his obituary, his family mentioned to me, you know when they say, like, survived by. That he was survived by, you know, his children and his mother and his family. And then it said his best friend. That meant a lot.

[Earlonne Woods]

Even though Ricky's gone, Jen still writes him.

[Jen]

Sometimes I'm writing about what happened, and sometimes I'm just like writing to him about my day. I just don't know really how to stop writing. September 24, 2025. Dear Ricky. Hi friend. I'm deep cleaning my house today. I'm decluttering, scrubbing, getting rid of clothes that I don't wear anymore and making space. I open the windows and I'm playing some music. It feels good. There's something that shifts for me mentally as I create more room. It brings a sense of peace and mental clarity. How did you find your sense of balance and stay centered in prison? Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking about you today and I miss you lots. Big love, Jen.

[Earlonne Woods]

When you write in these letters, do you hear his response?

[Jen]

Not exactly, but sometimes I feel his presence.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you believe that souls live on?

[Jen]

I do. I read this thing that said, you know, by time you see the light of a star, it may or may not be dead already, and that light from that star continues to travel on. And that some stars, when they collapse, they become like a beacon. They become like a lighthouse beacon in the universe. And so maybe that's what it is with our soul. Something like that, you know?

[Earlonne Woods]

Do you ever see yourself opening yourself back up like that pen pal wise?

[Jen]

Never. People have asked me that before, like maybe you can write chit inmate again. And I'm like, hell no. That fucked me up.

[Nigel Poor]

Peace and love, my dear friend.

[Earlonne Woods]

So I was just thinking of you and I wanted to send you a video before I turn it in for the night.

[Jen]

I hope all is well on your end and I hope to hear back from you soon.

[Earlonne Woods]

Take care of yourself. And peace be upon you.

[Jen]

Sending big love your way. Bye bye.

[Earlonne Woods]

If anyone wants to send us a letter, write us at Ear Hustle, P.O. box 883-723, San Francisco, CA 94188. That's Ear Hustle, P.O. 883-723, San francisco, CA 94188.

[Nigel Poor]

Like we said, you never know what will happen when you send a letter and someone opens it.

[Earlonne Woods]

Big thanks to all our friends at KQED for reading all those letters you've been hearing throughout this episode.

[Nigel Poor]

Ear Hustle is produced by me, Nigel Poor, Earlonne Woods, Amy Standen, Bruce Wallace and Kat Shuknek.

[Earlonne Woods]

Shubnam Sigman is the Managing Producer.

[Nigel Poor]

The producing team, Inside San Quentin includes Darrell Siddiq Davis, Tom Wynn and Inside Managing Producer Tony Tafoya.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ear Hustle will always be free, but if you want more Ear Hustle without ads, sign up for Ear Hustle Plus. You'll get subscriber only bonus content and you'll be supporting our team.

[Nigel Poor]

Next up on Ear Hustle plus is an Ask Nigel and Earlonne Anything episode where we answer a bunch of questions from listeners. Sign [e-mail] plus or directly in Apple Podcasts.

[Earlonne Woods]

Thanks to Warden Andes and Public Information Officer Lieutenant Berry at San Quentin Rehabilitation

[Nigel Poor]

Center, Acting Warden Parker, Associate Ward Warden Lewis and Pio, Lt. Avina at the California Institution for Women, and Warden Dela

[Earlonne Woods]

Cruz and Pio Lieutenant Williams at the Central California Women's Facility for their support of the show.

[Nigel Poor]

Bruce Wallace sound designs the show with help from Earlonne woods and Darlsa Deke Davis, Fernando Arruda and Harry Culhane are our engineers.

[Earlonne Woods]

Music for this episode is by David Josse, Antwan Williams, Dwight Chrisman and Bruce Wallace.

[Nigel Poor]

And if you want to show your love for Ear Hustle with some merch, there's a sale going on right now in our store.

[Earlonne Woods]

Come on man.

[Jen]

$10, right?

[Nigel Poor]

$10.

[Earlonne Woods]

$10 for some Ear Hustle merch. Go to earhustlesq.comshop and if you want

[Nigel Poor]

to learn more about this episode and really all of our episodes, sign up for our monthly email newsletter, the Lowdown.

[Earlonne Woods]

You can see photos from our live shows. Go behind the scenes to find out what the Ear Hustle team is up to and more. Sign [e-mail] newsletter.

[Nigel Poor]

Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent creator owned listener supported podcasts.

[Earlonne Woods]

Discover audio with Vision at Radiotopia fm.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm Nigel Poor.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm Earlonne Woods. Thanks for listening, Dear.

[Nigel Poor]

Ear Hustle.

[Earlonne Woods]

Hey, how's it going in there? Radiotopia

[Nigel Poor]

from prx.