Election!

Summary

Ear Hustle: "Election!" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: October 2, 2024

The "Election!" episode of Ear Hustle delves into the complexities of political engagement within the prison system, focusing on a mock presidential election conducted at San Quentin State Prison. Hosts Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods explore themes of democracy, voter representation, and the unique perspectives of incarcerated individuals. This summary captures the episode's key discussions, insights, and conclusions, enriched with notable quotes from participants.

---

1. Introduction to the Episode

The episode begins with Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods announcing an interactive initiative for the upcoming season. They invite listeners to contribute story ideas, aiming to engage the audience more deeply in content creation.

Earlonne Woods [00:00]:
"Hey, listeners. We are cooking up something really fun for next season, and we need your help."

---

2. The Mock Election Initiative

Nigel and Earlonne introduce the concept of a mock election held within San Quentin State Prison. Juan Marino Haynes, the editor-in-chief of Solitary Watch, explains the significance of these elections in fostering a sense of participation and belonging among inmates.

Juan Marino Haynes [03:04]:
"One of my biggest advocacy concerns in the United States is the right to vote. To me, it's huge... the fact that they participate in a mock election makes them feel like they're a part of something."

---

3. Conducting the Vote: Process and Challenges

The hosts detail the process of organizing the mock election, emphasizing the importance of statistical accuracy and confidentiality. They collaborated with Laksha Jain from Split Ticket and their managing producer Tony Tafoya to design and distribute ballots that mirror official California ballots.

Tony Tafoya [06:48]:
"People just need to be sure that their votes are confidential, can't be traced back to them or anything. The next part is that the question itself is worded like it would be on the California ballot."

Distributing 300 ballots proved challenging due to the inmates' limited engagement, achieving only 201 completed votes.

---

4. Results and Insights

Upon tallying the votes, Ear Hustle reveals that Kamala Harris received a majority of the votes (132) compared to Donald Trump's 55. This outcome aligns with national polling trends based on the prison's demographic makeup.

Laksha Jain [45:53]:
"San Quentin voted for Kamala Harris. 132 people to 55 people for Trump."

Tony Tafoya [46:56]:
"This is really cool... the incarcerated population doesn't vote that differently from the general populace as a whole."

---

5. In-depth Conversations on Politics in Prison

The episode features candid discussions with inmates expressing their political preferences and the reasons behind their choices.

Jimmy [22:04]:
"Donald Trump is an apex predator. That is Trump. The only difference is Trump has a huge following."

Damond Lewis [21:19]:
"Like I said, I'm not in love with the person. I care about the views of the person that could bring the security of our country first."

David Ditto [25:32]:
"I support Kamala Harris... I see Kamala as a uniter, and I think that's one of the main differences that I see between Trump and Harris."

These dialogues highlight the diverse political ideologies and the impact of personal experiences on voting preferences within the prison environment.

---

6. Reflections on Democracy and Voting Rights

The conversation extends to broader themes of democracy, the right to vote, and the disenfranchisement of incarcerated individuals. Juan Marino Haynes emphasizes the psychological and societal benefits of mock elections.

Juan Marino Haynes [04:07]:
"I want people who are incarcerated... to feel like they're a part of something really important. Democracy needs everyone, and that's what I truly believe."

Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods reflect on the parallels between prison elections and national elections, considering the implications for broader voter engagement and representation.

---

7. Future Directions and Listener Engagement

As the episode concludes, hosts encourage listeners to subscribe to Ear Hustle Plus for ad-free content and bonus episodes. They also tease upcoming episodes and initiatives aimed at further exploring life inside prison and the challenges of re-entry into society.

Nigel Poor [20:15]:
"If so, subscribe to Ear Hustle Plus... Subscribers can find out what's happening with people they've heard on previous episodes and they can also send in questions for us to answer."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Earlonne Woods [00:32]:
  "This season, we're adding a twist, and that's where you come in."

• Juan Marino Haynes [03:04]:
  "Democracy needs everyone, and that's what I truly believe."

• Nigel Poor [06:10]:
  "If we really wanted to do it right, we needed to ask people for some basic demographic information like race, age, things like that."

• Jimmy [22:04]:
  "Donald Trump is an apex predator. That is Trump."

• David Ditto [25:32]:
  "I see Kamala as a uniter, and I think that's one of the main differences that I see between Trump and Harris."

---

Conclusions

The "Election!" episode effectively sheds light on the political dynamics within the prison system, illustrating how mock elections can serve as platforms for expression and engagement among inmates. By aligning the mock election results with national trends, Ear Hustle underscores the broader applicability of these findings to understanding voter behavior. The episode also emphasizes the importance of inclusive democracy and the need to address voter disenfranchisement, advocating for systemic changes to ensure that every voice is heard.

---

For more information and episodes, visit earhustlesq.com.

Transcript

[Earlonne Woods]

Hey, listeners. We are cooking up something really fun for next season, and we need your help.

[Nigel Poor]

You might remember that for the last couple seasons, Earlonne and I have been producing mystery episodes.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's when me and Nige each come up with a story idea, and we work on it in secret until we reveal it to each other in the studio when we're recording narration.

[Nigel Poor]

And I love doing these. It's so much fun to surprise each other, and it gives us the opportunity to each explore a subject that intrigues us.

[Earlonne Woods]

This season, we're adding a twist, and that's where you come in.

[Nigel Poor]

Is there a story you've always wanted to hear on Ear Hustle, A topic you wished one of us would explore? Well, here's your chance to shape an upcoming episode.

[Earlonne Woods]

All you gotta do is email us an idea. It could be something really specific, like you wanna hear a story about someone who had to lose a lot of weight in prison?

[Nigel Poor]

Or it can be more abstract, like, what do people think about when they first wake up in prison? Maybe even on their first day in prison. And remember, it's a story idea for Earlonne and a story idea for me. So different ideas.

[Earlonne Woods]

If your idea is selected, you will be invited to join us via Zoom and be the third host when we record narration in the studio.

[Nigel Poor]

This is going to be great. And it's also going to give us a chance to do something really meaningful with our listeners.

[Earlonne Woods]

So send your idea to inforearhustlesq.com and the deadline is January 15th.

[Nigel Poor]

That's infoearhustlesq.com by January 15th. And I cannot wait to find out what my story idea is going to be.

[Earlonne Woods]

I know what I'm going to give.

[Nigel Poor]

No, you don't.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's going to be gang related.

[Corey Thomas]

Why? Shh.

[Nigel Poor]

No hands. I'm Corey Thomas, writer of the play Lockdown. This episode of Ear Hustle contains language that may not be appropriate for all listeners. Discretion is advised. I was just wondering where I was. Hi. We want to talk about the presidential election, and we heard that you run an election in here.

[Earlonne Woods]

What about What? What?

[Nigel Poor]

Is that not true?

[Earlonne Woods]

What?

[Juan Marino Haynes]

What are you talking about? I should mess with her like this.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, sit down.

[Laksha Jain]

Tell us your name, how long you've been incarcerated, and who you're voting for.

[Juan Marino Haynes]

My name is Juan Marino Haynes and I'm editor in chief of Solitary Watch.

[Nigel Poor]

Earline, we have known Juan forever.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes, we have. He's a longtime journalism guy who was like part of the furniture down at the media lab.

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly, exactly. And we should say that For a long time, he worked at the San Quentin News.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes.

[Nigel Poor]

Which is in the media lab. So we saw him every day. Every day we went to work. And he loves to chat.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, no. He'll definitely chop up a conversation quick.

[Nigel Poor]

And he was someone we really wanted to talk to for this episode about politics in prison.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, yeah. Because you know one. What would you call him? Political junkie.

[Nigel Poor]

A political junkie.

[Earlonne Woods]

He was definitely a political junkie.

[Juan Marino Haynes]

I've been incarcerated 28 years, and I'm 67 years old. I voted in or had an opinion about who should be commander in chief every election in my life, but this might be the first time that I actually won't vote as a protest.

[Nigel Poor]

Well, yeah, but what do you mean, vote? Because you can't vote in prison. So what do you mean, vote?

[Juan Marino Haynes]

What I mean by vote is we hold mock Elections since 2008 at San Quentin State Prison. I was kind of, like, on the staff of the very first one. That was the Obama election. And then after that, I kind of picked up the mantle and handled every presidential election while I was on staff at San Quentin News. One of my biggest advocacy concerns in the United States is the right to vote. To me, it's huge. When I talk to people during every election, when they vote, many tell me that they've never voted in their lives. And the fact that they participate in a mock election makes them feel like they're a part of something.

[Earlonne Woods]

This mock election that Juan does is going to take place in mid October.

[Nigel Poor]

And it's really cool. They distribute a ballot to every single cell in San Quentin. Every person inside the prison gets the opportunity to vote. It's real, official. I mean, do you remember getting that?

[Earlonne Woods]

I do not remember. I probably wasn't paying attention.

[Nigel Poor]

It's like how you get junk mail outside your front door now. You don't look at everything.

[Earlonne Woods]

Truth be told, you know, up until 2020, that was my first time ever voting, so I hadn't voted no other time in my life. So I probably wasn't paying attention to.

[Nigel Poor]

A mock election like a lot of other people.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah.

[Juan Marino Haynes]

One of the reasons why I work so hard to make sure these mock elections occur is because I want people who are incarcerated, who feel thrown away, feel like they're a part of something really important. Democracy needs everyone, and that's what I truly believe.

[Nigel Poor]

So to go back to you saying that you might not vote because of these two candidates, do you think that is part of your. Amy, you're very passionate about people voting.

[Juan Marino Haynes]

Yes.

[Nigel Poor]

So are you also passionate about people saying I'm not going to vote because. Okay, so that's part of your passion, the freedom to say, no, I'm not going to vote.

[Juan Marino Haynes]

I don't want to leave anyone out.

[Nigel Poor]

I am still trying to get my mind around this notion that someone can be really passionate about politics and voting and yet decide their not going to vote.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right.

[Nigel Poor]

But the spirit of what he's saying, that democracy needs everyone, that's something I can get behind.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right. And even though people in prison in California can't vote, they do have opinions. So let's hear what they have to say.

[Nigel Poor]

Let's do it. I'm Nigel Poor.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm Earlonne woods and this is ear hustle from PRX's Radiotopia. So Juan is going to get the results from his mock election by the end of October or mid October somewhere up in there. But we couldn't wait that long.

[Nigel Poor]

So we came up with a plan to do our own poll.

[Earlonne Woods]

Not to steal their thunder exactly, but.

[Nigel Poor]

But it may.

[Earlonne Woods]

So being that we've never done a poll before, we needed to get some game on this, some advice. So we set up a phone call with Laksha Jane, who analyzes national polls with the group Split Ticket, and our inside managing producer, Tony Tafoya.

[Laksha Jain]

So tomorrow we'll be on the yard and we're going to have a bunch of postcards set up and some pens and a box and people can write down who they would want to vote for. I was wondering about general guidance of how to make that as easy as possible, but at the same time as statistically correct. Yeah.

[Tony Tafoya]

Okay. What I would say is to start with, I think survey design is the most important thing. People just need to be sure that their votes confidential, can't be traced back to them or anything. The next part that they need to make sure of is that like the question itself is worded like it would be on the California ballot. Take an example of a California ballot. Just copy that wording and present the choices. Kamala Harris. Tim waltz. Donald Trump. J.D. vance.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, so we looked at the California ballot and e, I hadn't realized it, but RFK is still on there even.

[Earlonne Woods]

Though he dropped out.

[Nigel Poor]

Yes. And of course the Green Party's on there as well. So we put those candidates on our ballot too.

[Earlonne Woods]

And we made sure to keep it anonymous. We didn't collect any names or watch people as they filled out their ballots.

[Nigel Poor]

Lakshaw said if we really wanted to do it right, we needed to ask people for some basic demographic information like race, age, Things like that.

[Tony Tafoya]

Let's say San Quentin is 20% black.

[Laksha Jain]

Okay.

[Tony Tafoya]

And your survey has only 5% black respondents. Well, black voters are, like, overwhelmingly Democrat.

[Laksha Jain]

Okay.

[Tony Tafoya]

And what's going to happen is if your survey underrepresents black voters, it's also going to undercount the Democrats. And you can think of something very similar for age, right? Like young people probably more likely to sport hairs. So that's why you want to collect data on aging rates.

[Laksha Jain]

Is there a specific magic number we're looking for out of the population of 3,400?

[Tony Tafoya]

If you guys can get 200, 250, 300, anything in that range, that would be fantastic. More the better.

[Laksha Jain]

Okay, cool.

[Nigel Poor]

So we printed out 300 ballots, and a few days later we went out to the yard because there was one of those events inside San Quentin. So the yard was packed and we handed out ballots.

[Earlonne Woods]

And while we were doing that, we figured we might as well just ask people, if you could vote, who would you vote for? Donald Trump. Why Donald Trump? Because I'm a Republican. I've been a Republican since before I came to prison, and I was a Republican now, and I believe in what the Republicans stand for.

[Corey Thomas]

Trump, tell us why.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, because he's honest. Besides what he has in mind. I would vote for Kamala Harris. She is fresh blood, and she is definitely not Trump.

[David Ditto]

I would definitely vote for Donald Trump.

[Nigel Poor]

I think he made the economy great.

[David Ditto]

When he was the president, and I.

[Nigel Poor]

Think he'll do it again. Kamala for sure.

[Jimmy]

Donald Trump's a madman.

[Corey Thomas]

He might be the one to blow.

[Jimmy]

Up the whole planet if given the chance.

[Laksha Jain]

We definitely voted for sister Kamala. Trump equals trauma.

[Earlonne Woods]

But Kamala rhymes with trauma.

[Laksha Jain]

I mean, it may rhyme with trauma.

[David Ditto]

But, you know, she's less drama.

[Earlonne Woods]

Fuck. Donald Trump is a little bit racist towards the Latinos. And we know that we're in prison, but at the same time, we deserve a second chance. Donald Trump don't think that people can change, that people deserve a second chance.

[Laksha Jain]

If you could vote, who would you vote for and why is RFK still in the runnings?

[Earlonne Woods]

I would not vote for either one.

[Corey Thomas]

Really?

[Earlonne Woods]

All they talk about is the middle class. Middle class, middle class, middle class. Where's anything about the lower class people right now? Neither.

[Jimmy]

Trump is just. I like his policies, but the person, to me, he's too racist. And to me, Kamala is too far out there. She's too far left. In my opinion, if you put a gun to my head, I probably have to be shot.

[Earlonne Woods]

Well, if you're Putting a gun to my head.

[Corey Thomas]

I would have to go with Kamala. Donald Trump, I guess everybody can say that he's a true American because, you know, he's a convicted felon.

[Earlonne Woods]

Then he made love with the porn star, and he got shot.

[Corey Thomas]

What more American is that.

[Earlonne Woods]

Man? Trump is literally a rapper in their eyes. He done got shot. He's dating porn stars.

[Nigel Poor]

So that was giving him an edge, right?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. You know, he got a lot of street cred in the prison system.

[Nigel Poor]

So after that, we took those same.

[Earlonne Woods]

Questions to ccwf, which is Central California Women's Facility.

[Nigel Poor]

Thank you. And we wanted to see what the people there would have to say. If you could vote for president, who would you vote for? You've got. You would. Okay. Why? What about Trump appeals to you?

[Earlonne Woods]

I just like him. They say he's racist or whatever the case may be is. I just feel like he's fair. Kamala or Trump?

[Corey Thomas]

Kamala.

[Nigel Poor]

All day long, we're in opposition together.

[Earlonne Woods]

Okay.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. I'm going to have to say Trump. We need to improve our economy, and.

[Earlonne Woods]

Trump will do that.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm hoping, you know, I can't get any worse than it is now.

[Earlonne Woods]

I don't like Trump, so almost anybody.

[Nigel Poor]

That goes against him is going to be better. I think for me, it's her biggest platform is women's reproductive rights, and that's something that has affected my family. So anybody who's willing to change that has my vote. I think that's a question that we.

[Jimmy]

Don'T want to answer.

[Earlonne Woods]

Okay, cool. Thank you.

[Nigel Poor]

Because I don't like Donald Trump because he's very racist.

[Corey Thomas]

And what he does to the Mexican.

[Nigel Poor]

People, I don't agree. I was in Texas when that happened. He separated the babies from the mothers and fathers and put them all in cages like they were animals. It's ridiculous. It's not fair.

[Earlonne Woods]

I don't know about Kamala Harris either, because, you know, she denied a lot of my appeals. So there's a track record there. But if I have to pick and choose, I will go with her. So she could be the first woman as president. I might have to go with two, but I'm not really for sure.

[Corey Thomas]

Like, it's both pros and cons.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's literally pros and cons. Yes.

[Corey Thomas]

Cause you know, Trump, he did a.

[Earlonne Woods]

Lot in office while he was in office. You know, he did money. For real? For real.

[Nigel Poor]

If it don't have nothing to do.

[Earlonne Woods]

With money, he don't care. His business strategies help our different communities.

[Nigel Poor]

Especially the incarcerated community.

[Earlonne Woods]

I Don't know if this is what she's alluding to, but you gotta remember that Trump was in office when everyone in prison got those stimulus checks. It was like, ching, ching. I mean, everybody had money on their books and they were selling out the canteen.

[Nigel Poor]

I totally forgot about that.

[Earlonne Woods]

So Trump got a lot of fans in prison. Yeah, he's a felon. Now can I run for president?

[Nigel Poor]

If you could vote in this election, who would you vote for?

[Juan Marino Haynes]

Carmela all the way.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay.

[Earlonne Woods]

I want to see a woman sit on the throne and be a commander.

[Jimmy]

In chief before I die.

[Earlonne Woods]

At this point, particular point, I would. I hate to even say it, but the man with the toupee, you know, is that a toupee? That's a toupee. In my head. It's a. It's a piece. Huh? It's a piece. Back at San Quentin, the inside team was midway through the poll and took a break to start tallying.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, I mean, they wanted to see how it was going and whether they were going to hit 200, which probably doesn't sound like a huge number. I mean, honestly, it doesn't sound like a big number to me. But it turns out it's hard to get that many folks in there to do pretty much anything. And like our pollster said 200 would be fantastic.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's not any easier on the outside, right? I mean, people are busy. They got their minds on other shit.

[Corey Thomas]

It's a little before one. It's 12:50 by the clock in the studio.

[David Ditto]

How do you think we're doing in.

[Corey Thomas]

Terms of gathering balance?

[Laksha Jain]

I actually, I think we're doing pretty well.

[Nigel Poor]

What percentage of the total of 300.

[Corey Thomas]

Do you think we have done?

[Laksha Jain]

Oh, half.

[Nigel Poor]

So I think we have to get.

[Corey Thomas]

Back out there, right?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah.

[Laksha Jain]

Let's go back out.

[Earlonne Woods]

Alright, drum roll. Did we make the count to have a statistically accurate sample?

[Nigel Poor]

And when we got to the end of the day and gathered all those ballots and counted them up, who won the poll?

[Earlonne Woods]

You think we about to get out of way this early in the episode?

[Nigel Poor]

Who does that?

[Jimmy]

James Daly. I go by Jimmy.

[Nigel Poor]

How would you describe yourself?

[Jimmy]

Introverted.

[Nigel Poor]

Really? That facial hair is not the facial hair of an introverted person. He's got a mustache, a bushy mustache and then extended handlebar. When I look at it, I think of Deadwood. It's very like, cowboy this.

[Jimmy]

Like a Fumentu.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, but well forested. There's a lot there. That is a real statement. So to set up this next conversation, here's the idea I had on the outside, it often feels like people are really divided. They're in their own kind of bubble, and they don't really hang out with people of different. Different political beliefs. And the place where it does happen more is on the Internet, where you're like this invisible person interacting with other people. And they can get pretty nasty.

[Earlonne Woods]

The trolls.

[Nigel Poor]

The trolls, yes, exactly.

[Earlonne Woods]

But, you know, in prison, since you have no Internet, it's all kind of face to face.

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly. And so we thought it'd be really interesting to bring three people into the studio who have different political ideas and see what happened.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right. Their names are Ula, David, and that guy we were just hearing. Jimmy.

[Jimmy]

I spent 24 years in South Jerry confinement, so I'd rather be the fly on the wall than the person behind this microphone.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, interesting. 24 years.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

How long have you been out?

[Jimmy]

2017.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, that's still relatively new. Wow. Okay.

[Damond Lewis]

My name is Damond Lewis, or Ula, to describe me, A people person.

[Nigel Poor]

Mm. And what about your facial hair?

[Damond Lewis]

This is almost like my political statement. So whenever I'm freed, I plan on cutting my beard.

[Nigel Poor]

So you're gonna see how long it grows while you're inside.

[Damond Lewis]

Yes.

[Nigel Poor]

How long have you been incarcerated?

[Damond Lewis]

22 years.

[Nigel Poor]

And how long have you been growing that?

[Damond Lewis]

This statement has only been going right now for about three and a half years.

[Nigel Poor]

It's pretty long. So he is like six inch inches of a braid in his beard. Okay. All right. Very different.

[David Ditto]

I'm David. Ditto. By profession, I'm a biomedical researcher. But now I've been incarcerated almost as long as I was in that career. So I've been down 13 years on a 25 to life sentence. Currently, I'm associate editor of the San Quentin News newspaper. You know, I'm here trying to make myself a better person and go back to society a better person.

[Nigel Poor]

And what about your facial hair?

[David Ditto]

I was told I have a great face for radio, so it didn't matter if I shaved or not, but I just happened to be clean shaven.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. So you heard what their facial hair looks like. Now I want to kind of give you a little bit more of a description, and from that, you are going to tell me who you think they're going to vot for. Okay, so Oola is like a black guy with a long braided goatee.

[Earlonne Woods]

I know Oola. That's my boy.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. Jimmy is, like, tatted out. And let's just say if they were. Oh, how can I say this? If Hollywood were casting someone to play like, a white prison gang Dude.

[Earlonne Woods]

Okay.

[Nigel Poor]

He'd be first in line.

[Earlonne Woods]

Okay.

[Nigel Poor]

And as you know, David Ditto is this very clean cut, white.

[Earlonne Woods]

I know David Ditto. Yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, so who's voting for who?

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm going start with David Ditto. David Ditto seems like he would probably be voting for RFK or somebody like Alternative. Yeah, an alternative. The tattooed guy, probably Trumper. And Oola is definitely Kamala. Yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

I mean, he's got that hippie beard.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's my boy.

[Nigel Poor]

Well, we're gonna find out after the break.

[Earlonne Woods]

Happy January, Naj.

[Corey Thomas]

What?

[Nigel Poor]

You can't say Happy New Year. Yeah, we supposed to say Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you, Rahsaan, New York. Thomas.

[Earlonne Woods]

Thank you.

[Nigel Poor]

I am super excited to tell you listeners about Radiotopia's newest show, Hyperfixed.

[Earlonne Woods]

Hosted by former Reply all co host Alex Goldman. Hyperfix is a podcast where you, the listener, write in with your problems and Alex solves them. He tackles everything from the origin of a mysterious button to whether a listener should have kids or not.

[Nigel Poor]

This gets pretty personal.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's crazy. That's such a big decision.

[Nigel Poor]

Also, what is this button? Is he talking about buttons on your shirt or is it a very specific button somewhere?

[Earlonne Woods]

Benjamin Button? I don't.

[Nigel Poor]

Each episode of Hyperfixed attempts not only to solve listeners problems, but but exposes the hidden systems that cause those problems in the first place. Alex is kind of obsessed with solving your problems and he will go to absurd lengths to try and resolve them.

[Earlonne Woods]

Help us welcome the newest show to the Radiotopia family. Find Hyperfix on your favorite podcast platform. Now.

[Nigel Poor]

Listeners, do you want even more.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ear Hustle and even fewer ads like zero, zilch, nothing, nada?

[Nigel Poor]

If so, subscribe to Ear Hustle Plus.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ear Hustle plus subscribers get access to ad free episodes and bonus episodes.

[Nigel Poor]

Our Ear Hustle plus episodes are really fun. Subscribers can find out what's happening with people they've heard on previous episodes and they can also send in questions for us to answer.

[Earlonne Woods]

And me and Nigel get to sit here and chop it up with our producer, Bruce and just talk about whatever.

[Nigel Poor]

If you want to hear more of that, subscribe to ear hustle [e-mail] plus or directly in Apple Podcasts.

[Earlonne Woods]

And thanks for supporting the show. We appreciate y'all. And send in some provocative questions, spicy questions. So right out of the gate, ula let us know what team he was rolling with.

[Damond Lewis]

A lot of people wonder like, well, who would you vote for if you could vote and why? And so when I Say, like, okay, well, I support Trump. The first thing is, like, everybody's like, oh, whoa, no. How could you? And it's like, well, no, I'm not in love with the person, but some of the views and the policies is what attract me.

[Nigel Poor]

So while I was sitting there, of course, my eyes were darting around the room. And while Ula was talking, Jimmy was just, like, barely able to keep himself in his seat. Like, he was ready to jump in. Okay, sorry, I'm gonna have to go to Jimmy. Cause I can see he can barely contain himself. Go, Go.

[Jimmy]

Trump is me in the height of my criminality. He is me in 1990. That's when I fell on this case. The worst person I ever could be. I spent my life around apex predators. We did what we wanted in prison, and we hurt a lot of people. I also knew that, yeah, I'm sitting at the table, but I could be the next meal. And we killed more of our own than our enemies. Donald Trump is an apex predator. That is Trump. The only difference is Trump has a huge following. I've been incarcerated for 33 years on this case, and rightfully so. So that's why it bothers me. All my bad characteristics brought me to prison. Somehow he's convinced the public to embrace them as virtues.

[Damond Lewis]

Well, for me, and I'm speaking from a black perspective now, I can't remember a time, no matter whether I was in trouble or not, that there was somebody trying to dig something or find something out about me or, you know, who is he, or he's doing something. You relate to a person who's going through the same struggle as you. And you can clearly see that on every corner, there's somebody trying to find something about him, or somebody's, like, filing some kind of suit on him. Like, I've been looked at that my whole life, even without committing a crime. So it's easy for me to side with him. Like, yeah, he's probably done stuff. And like I said, I'm not in love with the person. I care about the views of the person that could bring the security of our country first. And then we start working.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oola. Not a fan of Kamala Harris.

[Nigel Poor]

Mm.

[Earlonne Woods]

Mm.

[Damond Lewis]

For the vice president who's running for the seat right now, like, this is the hometown girl from Oakland. I'm real close to Oakland right now. So I see people dying in real time. I see robbery in real time, murder in real time, drugs in real time. The business owners that you said you went to as a child, they are leaving. So if you can't do right by them. What make you think you can do right by the country? I want somebody that's gonna put country first, like, not a political view first. And I think that Trump puts country first.

[Jimmy]

Trump does weaponize. He's brought us the art of personal destruction. Okay. If you oppose me, I'm going to tear you personally down. I'm not going to debate you on the issue. I'm going to destroy you. The person. Donald Trump is an apex predator. He is feeding on what he can gain from it. Okay. Like I said, there's no stopping them now. There's no guardrails. So you can believe in some of his policies. I like some of them. I don't like others. And you say you're not in love with the man, but the man is going to run the country. The man is somebody you can't get out because our glorious Supreme Court has said that he's above the law.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. So we definitely heard from Oola and Jimmy. But E, you know, David, ditto. He's a pretty quiet person, pretty laid back. Yeah. And so I wanted to make sure to bring him out and have him be part of the conversation. Who do you. Who do you support?

[David Ditto]

I support Kamala Harris and Tim Walls for president and vice president in 2024. Yeah. I see Kamala as a uniter, and I think that's one of the main differences that I see between Trump and Harris. Trump is dividing the country, and Kamala wants to unite it. I mean, her message to me is just. It's a promise of hope and bringing people together and inviting people from all sides of politics, the whole spectrum, to join together and to work towards a future.

[Earlonne Woods]

Even though David supports Kamala Harris, as would a lot of people at San Quentin, it's complicated.

[David Ditto]

Kamala Harris, as attorney general, she was actually in courtrooms with some of us while we were fighting our cases and for the people. It's a phrase that she uses now. And when I hear that, I try to support it. But a part of me also cringes because I have a certain feeling of the way I was treated in the courtroom. And there's a lot of unfairness, sure.

[Jimmy]

But that's the system. So she is following the law as it's written.

[David Ditto]

Right. She's part of the system, but that's why she's vulnerable. It's easy, I think, to attack her as part of that unfair system that's bureaucratic, and it's hard to overcome that personal dissatisfaction and, you know, a feeling that, you know, she's not for me. So how can she be for the people?

[Nigel Poor]

It is not unusual in prison to hear this complaint about Harris. Can you kind of explain it a bit more?

[Earlonne Woods]

So in California, Kamala was actually the attorney general. So by being the attorney general, you're the top prosecutor in the state. What you say go in the whole state, and you're usually on everyone's habeas corpuses as the people. So it's gonna be whatever your name is, Nigel Poor versus Kamala Harris.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, so that, like, makes a very visual association with her.

[Earlonne Woods]

She's the enemy. She's the op that's in your mind.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

And the crazy part is it's not even her.

[Nigel Poor]

Right.

[Earlonne Woods]

She's not the lawyer that's on the case. She's just the top dog. So it's the other prosecutors that's really denying you. It's not her, but I get it.

[Nigel Poor]

I mean, you see her name and it feels very personal.

[Earlonne Woods]

Definitely. Definitely.

[Nigel Poor]

One of the things I think about with conversations like this and why I sometimes find them really difficult is we're never going to change anyone's mind. I don't think he's smiling with his opinion. I can tell he's not going to change. Jimmy, you're not. You're very clear on what you think David is, too. So what is the ultimate point of these conversations if we're never going to change people's minds or even completely listen with an open mind to what somebody's saying?

[David Ditto]

I think listening is the key. And if we don't listen now, maybe we can learn to listen. I have to listen to the reasons why and try to understand.

[Jimmy]

I think it's important for us to listen to each other's opinions. I agree with a lot of what ULA says. I believe we need strong borders. I believe we need a strong military. Look at China's coming up. But I also think that we need to have our friends back. You know, we can debate who is the better person to implement that because we agree on a lot of policies. It's just I have a very clear mind. He is a little warped, but other than that.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, so let me ask you this. Who's going to win the election?

[Jimmy]

I'm hoping.

[Damond Lewis]

Camilla.

[Jimmy]

I'm hoping.

[Nigel Poor]

Who's going to win.

[Damond Lewis]

I'm 100% sure that Trump is going to win.

[David Ditto]

David, it's too close to call.

[Earlonne Woods]

I don't think any of these guys are changing their mind. Eyes?

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, hell no. They never change their minds. But, you know, one of the things I really like about working in prison, is that you can often find yourself in conversation with people who have very, very different, you know, perspectives than you have.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. And this next conversation is a pretty good example of that.

[Nigel Poor]

Can you introduce yourself, please?

[Corey Thomas]

My name is Jason Jenkins.

[Nigel Poor]

And, Jason, what are we talking about today?

[Corey Thomas]

We are talking about Donald Trump and Kamala Harris and.

[Nigel Poor]

And what's the subtopic?

[Corey Thomas]

The subtopic is her. The election and her presidency and the sub subtitle. Presidency and her being a woman.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. And what is it about her being a woman that sparked this conversation that you said?

[Corey Thomas]

So I said. I made a statement, and I said that I would not vote for Kamala Harris because she is a woman.

[Nigel Poor]

So this is the first time that I know of that I've had a conversation with someone who will say that to my face that you wouldn't vote for someone because they're a woman. And it really sparked my interest, and I wanted to know more like, did.

[Corey Thomas]

You want to choke me out?

[Nigel Poor]

No, no. I was really curious, like, why? What? Like, where does that come from? No, I didn't want to choke you. 1. I didn't want to choke you because you're very friendly and you have a very open face, and so you seem like somebody I could have a reasonable conversation with about it. And I just want to know, like, where that thinking comes from. So I was curious. Not angry, but curious. Yeah.

[Corey Thomas]

So the mentality come from is my. My spiritual faith, my spiritual belief. I am a Protestant Christian. And so in the body of Christ, when it comes to a man and a woman, there are certain responsibilities that a man is supposed to take on. And the leadership role of, like, the family when it comes to teaching the word of God. Teaching a family the word of God, those are male responsibilities.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. Well, I was raised a Protestant, too, and I never was told that.

[Corey Thomas]

I'm sorry.

[Nigel Poor]

So you feel sorry for me that I didn't hear that?

[Corey Thomas]

I'm sorry you were deceived.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. Okay.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

That's not how I thought of it, but that's an interesting take on it.

[Corey Thomas]

I apologize.

[Nigel Poor]

So I'm a professor.

[Corey Thomas]

Yes, ma'am.

[Nigel Poor]

I come into prison. I started a podcast with a guy who was incarcerated. I'm an independent person. So if I had been taught as a young girl growing up that I shouldn't take on responsibility, where do you think I would be now?

[Corey Thomas]

Well, so it's not to say that males are smarter than women, are superior in any type of way. Right? When God formed Adam. Right. He formed a male first but the women came from the rib of the man. The man was formed first. And so that shows, like, the leadership, the preeminence of the man versus the woman.

[Nigel Poor]

So there's other jobs where women are in charge. Like when I'm a professor, I'm in charge of all my students, male and female.

[Corey Thomas]

Yes, ma'am.

[Nigel Poor]

So why can't I be in charge there of people? Or I started a podcast and I'm the in quotes head of that program. So I come in here and I'm in charge of men. So is that also disgusting?

[Corey Thomas]

No, no, no. Absolutely not. Because if you read, like, Proverbs 31, it talks about the virtuous woman, right? She was a business owner, Right. And she fed the family and she had her own thing going on. And I'm not saying that women are just supposed to stay at home and cook and just be homemakers. Right? There is a place for women to have, like, their own ministry and stuff like that, that there have been times, even in the Bible, where God allowed women to take on certain leadership roles that belongs to men. That's only because there wasn't a male who was willing or capable to take on those responsibilities. And God has allowed that to happen. However, preaching and teaching and things of that nature are really male roles that we are supposed to take on. But it's just like, unfortunately, it's not a lot of male role models out there that's willing to step up.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, I'm going to interrupt you a couple times. Don't be insulting. So how do you feel when you see people? You may like them, but they're not following this path. How does that make you feel? Feel and like, inside, how does it make you feel?

[Corey Thomas]

So I have a lot of friends. I do have friends that are not Christians that have other belief systems. Right. And so for me personally, it doesn't make me feel angry or upset or disappointed. I am saddened for them, for their eternal future. Right.

[Nigel Poor]

Why? What's going to happen to us? Where are we going to go?

[Corey Thomas]

I am saddened because at the end of the day, like, whether people believe it or not, we're all going to have to stand before God and we're going to have to answer for the way we lived our life. Right.

[Nigel Poor]

So where will people like me go?

[Corey Thomas]

I don't know your belief system.

[Nigel Poor]

Well, it's not the same as yours. I mean, I have faith, but I have a different kind of faith. Well, I mean, I believe that there's a God and there's a plan. I Would like to believe there's a plan, but I don't think that if there is. I mean, I have doubt. I'm not sure this is what I would like to believe, but I can't. I just find it hard to imagine that God would be that concerned if a male or a female is doing something.

[Corey Thomas]

Well, so the thing is, is this, right? Like, it's not about what we do.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right.

[Corey Thomas]

It's about what we believe in.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, but I want you to say what is going to happen to people that don't believe what you say if.

[Corey Thomas]

People don't believe in Jesus Christ, that Jesus Christ died for their sins. Like Den, there's a place called hell.

[Nigel Poor]

So that's where I'm going to go.

[Corey Thomas]

I mean, if you.

[Nigel Poor]

Would you pull me up if you saw me going down. I can't.

[Corey Thomas]

There's nothing I can do. The only thing I could do right now is ask you to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior. And if you choose not to do that, then that is your own personal choice.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, so it's my freedom to choose.

[Corey Thomas]

God has given us free will. We are not robots that he controls. Right.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. All right. So I see where I'm going in your eyes, at least. Okay, so let's bring this to the election, because this is what we want. Wanted to talk about. So there's Donald Trump and there's Kamala Harris. Obviously, the two. It's going to be one or the other.

[Corey Thomas]

Yes. Yes, ma'am.

[Nigel Poor]

And you're a religious man? I'm a spiritual man.

[Corey Thomas]

Spiritual being, yes.

[Nigel Poor]

And how. From your spiritual side, how would you describe the kind of person Trump is?

[Corey Thomas]

Look, Trump is. He says he's a Christian. He says he's this and that, but his actions. I believe Trump is a racist. I believe Trump is. He's not. For people like me, which is a black man, I don't feel like I believe that he's a narcissist. Right. He's greedy. Right. So I believe all these things that every other person who looked at Trump believes. Right. I believe these things about Trump. Right. However, we do agree on certain stances in regards to homosexuality, in regards to abortions. Right. Like, I don't, you know, believe in none of those things. I believe that, like, homosexuality is a choice. I don't believe people are born gay. I don't believe in abortions. Right. And so in my opinion, that's the only thing Trump has to stand on.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, but as a person, you find him pretty. You find him objectionable is what you're saying.

[Corey Thomas]

Yeah, okay.

[Nigel Poor]

So I'm not putting words in your.

[Corey Thomas]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. How would you describe Harris as a person?

[Corey Thomas]

So, I mean, Kamala Harris, she's a politician. I don't look at her any different than I would Donald Trump. I don't believe that. Like, she was a former prosecutor who is people walking in this institution that she has prosecuted and that she has kept from receiving justice even when she knew their innocence. There's all type of stories about her, you know, having an affair with a married man. And so, like, I looked at her and Trump in the same way. And so I don't think that the nation will be better off with her as a president.

[Nigel Poor]

So you think their personal foibles or their personal shortcomings are of equal.

[Corey Thomas]

I mean, all of us are. There's no one greater than anyone. Sin is sin.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. There's no degrees of sin.

[Corey Thomas]

There's no degrees of sin. I can honestly tell you that God, if. If I commit a murder and you tell a lie, God is not going to say, no, your sin is greater because you killed someone. No. God looks at sin all the same. There's no one. No sin greater than the other. There is no big.

[Nigel Poor]

There's no degree of bad.

[Corey Thomas]

There's no degree.

[Nigel Poor]

So if you're saying that all sins are the same, does that mean that all sinners go to hell?

[Corey Thomas]

No.

[Nigel Poor]

If they haven't asked for forgiveness, if.

[Corey Thomas]

They haven't asked for forgiveness, if they haven't accepted the sacrifice that Jesus Christ provided for them, then, yes, they are going to hell.

[Nigel Poor]

Where do you think Trump's going to go?

[Corey Thomas]

I mean, I don't know if he asked for forgiveness. Right.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. If I met you 20 years ago, where would you have been going?

[Corey Thomas]

So if you met me 20 years ago, I'd probably be dead. We wouldn't be having this meeting, and I would be going to hell.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. All right. Well, it was great talking to you. Thank you. I appreciate you doing it. It was fun, right? Was it fun? How do you feel inside?

[Corey Thomas]

I feel great. I feel. I feel like I was able to stand firm in what I believe in. And so with that, I'ma always be proud.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

[Corey Thomas]

Thank you.

[Nigel Poor]

You will shake a woman's hand, though?

[Corey Thomas]

Yes, ma'am.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. Just making sure. Okay. We just have to get 30 seconds of silence.

[Corey Thomas]

Don, what are we doing today?

[David Ditto]

I guess we're here to count these.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ballots to see if Trump wants.

[Corey Thomas]

Okay.

[Earlonne Woods]

All right, well, a few days after the poll, our inside crew sat down to count the votes before we go.

[Laksha Jain]

In, who do you think's gonna win? I think Trump's gonna win. Based off of the vote that we took, I thought.

[David Ditto]

I think Trump's gonna win too.

[Corey Thomas]

I think Kamala's gonna win.

[Laksha Jain]

Okay.

[David Ditto]

When I'm looking at it right now.

[Corey Thomas]

He looks like Kamala's winning the last.

[Nigel Poor]

The last five or six.

[Earlonne Woods]

I put in all Kamala. Oh, no.

[Nigel Poor]

Here we go.

[Laksha Jain]

Yeah. Hey, Uncle Trumpy right there.

[Corey Thomas]

Uncle Trumpy.

[David Ditto]

Who put Trumpy poo on there? Look, that Trump stack is starting to.

[Earlonne Woods]

Look a little bit more than I thought it was.

[Laksha Jain]

Yeah.

[Corey Thomas]

Oh, wow.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's starting to get like, hey, man, I'm looking at these stacks. They looking pretty close.

[Corey Thomas]

Okay.

[Jimmy]

Oh, my gosh.

[Earlonne Woods]

Wow.

[Laksha Jain]

We have 201 ballots.

[Earlonne Woods]

Okay.

[Nigel Poor]

So a lot of my friends and family are very anxious to find out who won in here because they think it's a predictor of what's gonna happen on the outside and they're concerned about it. So now I believe you guys have actually counted.

[Corey Thomas]

Yes, yes, we actually counted all of ballots.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. And it looks like you have them right here. How much do you get?

[Corey Thomas]

So we have 201 ballots total.

[Nigel Poor]

Can I ask you who you would vote for?

[Laksha Jain]

Personally, I would vote for Kamala.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay.

[Corey Thomas]

Personally, I wouldn't even vote. I never been into voting. And it sounds messed up because a lot of people probably think like me, but I wouldn't even vote. I never been big on this. I never, never really cared. It affects me, but it never really affected me to the point where I cared about voting.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you think there's more people out there that feel that way than we might imagine?

[Corey Thomas]

No, definitely it is. I think it's a big percentage of people that just don't want to vote and don't care about voting. And I think that's why the election sometimes looks like how it looks.

[Laksha Jain]

What about you? Tony, too.

[Earlonne Woods]

So I almost don't want to say, but, like, I almost agree with Sadiq. Like, I almost don't want to vote. And I wouldn't have until Kamala jumped in the race. Before that, I thought it was just like two geezers who really weren't worth a damn. So who would you vote for? Kamala. I would vote for Kamala. Now it's hard to vote for an ex DA of my own city and the ex attorney general of my own state who's prosecuted probably me at one point. But if I look at the alternative, it's like I don't like having to pick the lesser of Two evils.

[Corey Thomas]

Right?

[Damond Lewis]

Or just.

[Earlonne Woods]

I don't want to pick someone because I don't like the alternative. I want to pick my champion. And I'll be honest, he's not my champion.

[Nigel Poor]

But if you're picking the less of two evils and you don't vote, what happens when the evil one, the more evil, wins?

[Earlonne Woods]

You have a bunch of people at the Capitol breaking windows.

[Corey Thomas]

So since you put it that way, I would want to vote for Kamala because I don't want to see 2016 again. I don't want to see the insurrection. I don't want to see none of that. So that's the reason why I don't want Trump to win, because I feel like he's going to breed this racism, this hate, and that's just going to.

[Nigel Poor]

Just carry over, so. Oh, God. Can we hear the results? I'm scared. I wish I could hold someone's hand.

[Laksha Jain]

All right, before. Before we get to this, we have three folders.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay.

[Laksha Jain]

We have our independent folder, which is this big one. Kidding. We have our Somewhat Trump folder and our Kamala folder.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, so let me just say one folder is razor thin, like, there's almost nothing in it. One is, I'm gonna say, half an inch thick, and one is, like two and a half inches thick. So it's a landslide. It's a landslide. Sadiq, my nails. I'm biting them.

[Laksha Jain]

So we had A hundred and thirty one people vote for Kamala Harris. Kamala. 1.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, I'm trying to be neutral.

[Earlonne Woods]

Whoopee.

[Laksha Jain]

And then what was it? 60 something. No, the rest for Donald Trump. And then 13. 10 for RFK and three for Jill Stein.

[Tony Tafoya]

Hi.

[Laksha Jain]

Good morning.

[Tony Tafoya]

Hey.

[Earlonne Woods]

Hey.

[Laksha Jain]

So I have some results for you.

[Tony Tafoya]

Oh, fantastic.

[Laksha Jain]

Okay, so first off, who do you think San Quentin voted for overall for President?

[Tony Tafoya]

Probably Kamala Harris, but not by much.

[Laksha Jain]

San Quentin voted for Kamala Harris. 132 people to 55 people for Trump.

[Tony Tafoya]

Okay. Wow.

[Laksha Jain]

Yeah.

[Tony Tafoya]

Do you have any info on the racial demographics of San Quentin?

[Laksha Jain]

Yes, I do. Okay, So I have 60 people who identified as Hispanic or Latinx, 72 black, 45 white, 5 Native American, and everyone else that's labeled other or Asian. There was 26 of them.

[Tony Tafoya]

So that's interesting, because this is basically exactly what you would expect if you ran a national poll with those demographics. You would get basically Harris leading them at 35 to 40. And that's, like, pretty much exactly in line with what you got. I mean, that is. That is really cool. That's actually probably the most interesting part of it that over overall, the incarcerated population doesn't vote that differently from the general populace as a whole. There's almost no research whatsoever on this.

[Laksha Jain]

Oh.

[Tony Tafoya]

There's no one that studies this stuff. So this is really cool.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you remember Juan's mock election?

[Earlonne Woods]

Mm.

[Nigel Poor]

So when is he gonna get the results of that?

[Earlonne Woods]

He said somewhere around mid October.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. So those results are definitely going to have to go in our newsletter. The Lowdown for sure.

[Earlonne Woods]

But you know what, though?

[Nigel Poor]

What?

[Earlonne Woods]

Even though voting hasn't even started, Juan says he know what the outcome's gonna be.

[Juan Marino Haynes]

You know, every election the Democratic party wins. So I'm not going to hear. Yeah. At San Quentin.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, oh, oh, okay. Okay.

[Juan Marino Haynes]

At San Quentin, every year, even that Trump Clinton. It was. It was not. It wasn't even close.

[Nigel Poor]

Will you let us know who wins the.

[Juan Marino Haynes]

I'll give you a heads up, but you know, I'm under contract.

[Earlonne Woods]

Okay.

[Nigel Poor]

Excellent politician here. I know you're busy. Thank you for stopping by and talking to us.

[Earlonne Woods]

That was fun.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Tony Tafoya]

My name is Laksha Jain and I'm working on updating Split Ticket's presidential election model right now. Ear Hustle is produced by Nigel Poore, Earlonne Woods, Amy Standen, Bruce Wallace, Bresson New York Thomas and Cat Schuknecht. Shabnam Sigman is a managing producer. The producing team Inside San Quentin includes Darrell Sadiq Davis, Tony de Trinidad, and Tom Wynn. The inside managing producer is Tony Tafoya. Thanks to acting warden Andes at San Quentin, Lt. Williams and Warden De La Cruz at the Central California Women's Facility, and acting Warden Parker at and Lieutenant Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show. Thanks also to this woman here.

[Corey Thomas]

I am Lieutenant Giamari Berry, the public information officer at San Quentin Rehabilitation center, and I approve this episode.

[Tony Tafoya]

This episode was made possible by the Just Trust building a smaller, more humane engine of justice and safety across the country.

[Earlonne Woods]

Big thanks to Laksha J. For being our poll expert and for reading those credits. Good looking. And thanks to Ear hustler Artisteo Sampablo for his yard talk and Spanish interpretation.

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne woods sound designs and engineers the show with help from Fernando Arruda, Harry Culhane and Darrell Siddiq Davis.

[Earlonne Woods]

Music for this episode comes from Antwan Williams, David Jassy and Darrell Siddiq Davis.

[Nigel Poor]

For more information about this episode, check out the show notes on ear hustle's website, earhustlesq.com and if you want to.

[Earlonne Woods]

Learn more about this episode and all of our episodes Sign up for our monthly email newsletter the Lowdown.

[Nigel Poor]

You can see photos, go behind the scenes to find out what the Ear Hustle team is up to and more. Sign [e-mail] newsletter.

[Earlonne Woods]

You can find us on social media, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube @earhustlesq.

[Nigel Poor]

And if you're not already, follow and review Ear Hustle on any of your favorite podcast platforms like Apple Podcasts, Spotify and the iHeartRadio app.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia from prx, a network of independent, creator owned, listener supported podcasts.

[Nigel Poor]

Discover audio with Vision at Radiotopia fm.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm Earlonne Woods.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm Nigel Poor. Thanks for listening and for voting. Radiotopia from prx.