My Understanding of This Place, Part 2

Summary

Ear Hustle: "My Understanding of This Place, Part 2" – Detailed Summary

Introduction: Engaging the Audience in Storytelling The episode begins with hosts Earlonne Woods and Nigel Poor announcing an exciting initiative for the upcoming season. They invite listeners to contribute story ideas, adding a participatory twist to their traditional mystery episodes. At [00:32], Nigel Poor encourages listeners to email their story ideas to help shape future narratives, fostering a collaborative relationship with their audience.

Exploring East Block: A Journey into San Quentin's History The core of the episode centers on the hosts’ exploration of East Block, formerly known as Death Row, at San Quentin State Prison. This segment delves into the physical and emotional landscape of a place steeped in history and personal stories.

At [05:27], Nigel Poor introduces the significance of their visit, aiming to uncover how meaningful spaces within the prison preserve memories. The team comprises the production crew and inside team members, including Tony Tafoya, Darrell Sadiq Davis, and Tom Nguyen, who guide them through the abandoned blocks.

Physical Conditions and Emotional Atmosphere As they navigate East Block, the hosts observe the dilapidated state of the facility. Darrell Sadiq Davis reflects at [07:20], “I believe it lives in the building,” suggesting that the memories and experiences of its former inmates remain etched in the walls and corners. The team encounters mold, graffiti, and remnants of past lives, painting a vivid picture of confinement and isolation.

At [09:59], Nigel Poor describes the environment: “This looks like something from a horror movie… Still looks like The Shining.” This analogy underscores the eerie and desolate atmosphere they encounter, challenging their preconceived notions about Death Row.

Discovering Personal Artifacts: The Story of the TP Man One of the most poignant discoveries is a cell belonging to a prisoner known as the TP Man. At [14:08], Tony Tafoya narrates the finding of a letter declaring himself the “TP guy,” who stocked excessive amounts of toilet paper and soap. This artifact serves as a window into the inmate’s coping mechanisms and sense of identity within the harsh prison environment.

Nigel Poor muses at [15:58], “I have no idea why that guy had so much toilet paper.” The team speculates on the practical and psychological reasons behind his hoarding behavior, highlighting the small acts of agency inmates possess amidst restrictive conditions.

Encounter with Shaka: A Former Death Row Inmate’s Perspective A pivotal moment occurs when the team engages with Shaka, a former Death Row inmate, providing an intimate perspective on their earlier exploration. At [32:34], Shaka reveals, “91 till 23, I lived in the same cell,” offering his firsthand experience of life on Death Row.

Shaka expresses mixed emotions about the hosts’ visit. At [34:28], he shares, “It was a boy and death story because you would have had firsthand and a range of emotion,” emphasizing the deep emotional scars left by his experiences. He critiques the hosts' initial reaction to the empty Death Row, suggesting a lack of understanding of the profound isolation and despair inmates endure.

Reflections and Emotional Reconciliation The hosts reflect on their experience and Shaka’s insights, grappling with their own emotional responses. Nigel Poor admits at [35:34], “Every time I hear it, I cringe a little bit,” acknowledging the discomfort and awakening his actions have invoked. Shaka offers a compassionate perspective, explaining that their laughter was a coping mechanism: “We laugh to keep from crying,” he states at [35:49].

This interaction fosters a deeper understanding between the hosts and a former inmate, bridging the gap between external curiosity and internal suffering. Shaka’s willingness to engage and share his story underscores the human capacity for empathy and connection, even in the bleakest circumstances.

Conclusion: A Complex Emotional Landscape The episode concludes with the hosts contemplating the complexity of their journey through Death Row. They recognize that while their adventure was meant to be a bonding experience, it also unveiled the stark realities of prison life that words alone cannot fully capture.

At [39:12], Shaka reassures them, “It's not. I never felt discarded or disrespected,” validating their intentions and emphasizing the importance of genuine attempts to understand and document inmate experiences. This affirmation brings a nuanced closure to the episode, highlighting the delicate balance between storytelling and respect for those who have endured the prison system.

Notable Quotes:

• Nigel Poor [05:27]: “Today on the show, the most hidden spot in San Quentin.”
• Darrell Sadiq Davis [07:20]: “I believe it lives in the building.”
• Nigel Poor [09:59]: “This looks like something from a horror movie… Still looks like The Shining.”
• Tony Tafoya [14:08]: “He was trying to pass on like whoever moves in here to be the next TP.”
• Shaka [32:34]: “91 till 23, I lived in the same cell.”
• Shaka [35:49]: “We laugh to keep from crying.”
• Nigel Poor [35:34]: “Every time I hear it, I cringe a little bit.”
• Shaka [39:12]: “It's not. I never felt discarded or disrespected.”

Conclusion: "My Understanding of This Place, Part 2" offers a compelling and introspective look into the lives of those confined within San Quentin’s East Block. Through meticulous exploration and heartfelt conversations, Earlonne Woods and Nigel Poor provide listeners with an unfiltered glimpse into the emotional and physical landscapes of Death Row, fostering empathy and understanding beyond the prison walls.

Transcript

[Earlonne Woods]

Hey, listeners. We are cooking up something really fun for next season, and we need your help.

[Nigel Poor]

You might remember that for the last couple seasons, Earlonne and I have been producing mystery episodes.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's when me and Nige each come up with a story idea, and we work on it in secret until we reveal it to each other in the studio when we're recording narration.

[Nigel Poor]

And I love doing these. It's so much fun to surprise each other, and it gives us the opportunity to each explore a subject that intrigues us.

[Earlonne Woods]

This season, we're adding a twist, and that's where you come in.

[Nigel Poor]

Is there a story you've always wanted to hear on Ear Hustle, A topic you wished one of us would explore? Well, here's your chance to shape an upcoming episode.

[Earlonne Woods]

All you gotta do is email us an idea. It could be something really specific, like you wanna hear a story about someone who had to lose a lot of weight in prison?

[Nigel Poor]

Or it can be more abstract, like, what do people think about when they first wake up in prison? Maybe even on their first day in prison. And remember, it's a story idea for Earlonne and a story idea for me. So different ideas.

[Earlonne Woods]

If your idea is selected, you will be invited to join us via Zoom and be the third host when we record narration in the studio.

[Nigel Poor]

This is going to be great, and it's also going to give us a chance to do something really meaningful with our listeners.

[Earlonne Woods]

So send your idea to infoearhustlesq.com and the deadline is January 15th.

[Nigel Poor]

That's infoearhustlesq dot com by January 15th. And I cannot wait to find out what my story idea is going to be.

[Earlonne Woods]

I know what I'm gonna get.

[Nigel Poor]

No, you don't.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's gonna be gang related.

[Shaka]

Why?

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Shh.

[Nigel Poor]

No hands.

[Nathan Dalton]

My name is Nathan Dalton.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm a producer with the Kitchen Sisters.

[Nathan Dalton]

And also an office mate with the Ear Hustle team.

[Nigel Poor]

This episode of Ear Hustle contains discussion of suicide and other content that may not be appropriate for all listeners. Discretion is advised. You my Kim, as we're going up so you can describe going. All right, all right.

[Shaka]

Ah.

[Tony Tafoya]

What's up, man? Well, so not right now. We're in west block and we're going up the stairs right now. We're going to this first, the second tier, but we plan to go out.

[Nigel Poor]

Ow.

[Tony Tafoya]

I just walked into a firebox. We're going to the fifth tier. We're gonna go see something.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay? So just as a reminder, this is part two of a project I've been working on. With the team inside, where together we go to these different places inside San Quentin that are significant to each of the guys.

[Earlonne Woods]

So in the first half, we heard from Tony Tafoya, Tom Nguyen, and Darrell Sadiq Davis.

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly. So who's left?

[Earlonne Woods]

Who's Damn. So, Tony, did Trinidad get a whole episode? Not only do you get two episodes for your original one, Tony de Trinidad get his own episode.

[Nigel Poor]

Well, remember, there's another big component to this story.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, you're right. You're right, you're right.

[Nigel Poor]

And we will get there. But first, Tony de Trinidad had a place he really wanted to show us.

[Tony Tafoya]

So we're here on the fifth tier of west block. Right. Whenever I was feeling cooped up, lockdowns, can't feel like I can get outside. I would come up here and I would look out there. All right, now you can look.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay.

[Tony Tafoya]

This is probably the best view in prison. This is like the one place where the windows in San Quentin are not fogged up. You can kind of see the bay, San Francisco Bay, Right. Outside with a guard tower. And then Mount Tamalpais. Right.

[Earlonne Woods]

All right. I know that spot.

[Nigel Poor]

You do?

[Earlonne Woods]

It's a cool spot, you know, kind of hidden away, you know? There's no other place that San Quentin like it. When you're inside a prison, pretty much any prison, all you see is prison.

[Nigel Poor]

Right.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know what I'm saying? There's no looking out the window and seeing regular people or on the streets or houses or anything like that. It's just prison walls, prison fences, prisoners and prison staff. That's all you see.

[Nigel Poor]

Right. But from this little spot that Tony Hann had taken us to, through this very dirty window, you could see this sliver of, like, regular life outside the walls.

[Tony Tafoya]

On the nice days, you can catch sunsets. You know what I mean? At nighttime, you can see lights across the water, and then sometimes you can see the ferry crossing by. So it's everything that's not prison. I'm sitting here, I'm in prison. You can look outside.

[Nigel Poor]

What I noticed is you can see all the cars driving by, so you know that people are out there being busy.

[Tony Tafoya]

So, yeah, there's signs of life.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. All right, I'm going to attempt to look over the rail.

[Tony Tafoya]

We got you back.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, I'm going to have to touch the rail here.

[Tony Tafoya]

Go ahead.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm looking over. I got that feeling in my stomach.

[Tony Tafoya]

From inside any building in prison, looking out any window. Have you ever seen a better view?

[Nigel Poor]

I have not. I have not. Okay, I'll say.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

America.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm Nigel Poor.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm Earlonne woods, and this is ear.

[Nigel Poor]

Hustle from PRX's Radiotopia. Today on the show, the most hidden spot in San Quentin. That's right, Earlonne. We are going into east block, formerly.

[Earlonne Woods]

Known as death row.

[Nigel Poor]

So the reason I invited Tony and the other guys on the inside team to take us to a special place was because we wanted to explore this notion that memory gets left behind in a physical space that is meaningful to you that you've spent a lot of time in. And we wanted to see if that happened inside of prison too.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think from the outside, you know, these spots look pretty drab. Is that a word?

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. Dull. Exactly.

[Earlonne Woods]

But they look different through the eyes of someone who's experienced something important there, you know?

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly. Exactly. And all of this was a buildup for our visit to death row, which Earlonne was a huge deal. I mean, none of us had been.

[Earlonne Woods]

There before, didn't want to be.

[Nigel Poor]

I know you wouldn't have come.

[Earlonne Woods]

And listeners who heard part one will remember that San Quentin recently closed its death row doors and relocated the people that was on the row to other prisons in the state. So the building, also known as east block, was empty.

[Nigel Poor]

And the inside team and I were going to see it. You know, we really weren't sure what it was going to feel like. And that's something that we talked about in the days leading up to this, you know, adventure we were about to have.

[Tom Nguyen]

There's probably gonna be a lot of dust. I think it's gonna have this, honestly, like, a deep sadness.

[Nigel Poor]

Do either of you believe that places hold onto the memory of what's happened there?

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

I believe so, yes. I believe it lives in the building. Yeah, definitely. And I heard a lot of people didn't want to leave. It was a lot of screams and yelling, so a lot of that stuff is still there.

[Nigel Poor]

Why do you think people didn't want to leave?

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

It was comfortable. They didn't want to. This is all they knew. They thought they was going to die here. So for you just to up and take them away, it's like. And then you have to remember that These guys spent 30, 40 years by themselves. Everything was handcuffed by themselves. So now to go out to a mainline and to set up with someone, it is scary. It's like, what am I supposed to do? How am I supposed to react?

[Nigel Poor]

I'm like, nervous energy about going up there, but I do really want to see how people lived. I'm really curious about what's left behind.

[Earlonne Woods]

So are we finally going in?

[Nigel Poor]

Yes, we are.

[Sadiq]

I just don't want to be.

[Nigel Poor]

Let's go.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Let's go. And the gates are open.

[Tom Nguyen]

It says, must show ID upon entering. Security vest is mandatory in this unit. Watch your step. There's a big metal thing.

[Tony Tafoya]

Watch your step.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Wow. So what do you see when you first walk in, Tony?

[Tom Nguyen]

Right now I see a bunch of lockers, and it says, eastbach lock medic clinic.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. All right, so right now, it looks like any housing unit unit that I've seen at San Quentin. But let's. Let's step in further.

[Tony Tafoya]

There's a lot more fences at every point. It looks like, you know, it's not as open.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, they've probably been cleaning in here. All right, should we go up to the fifth tier?

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Let's make our way up.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. Bayside. And to get from tier to tier, of course, there's a staircase. And as we were passing by each cell, we. We just kind of cataloged what we were seeing. There's a bunch of soap on the ground. Bars of soap. And masks, Earplugs. I see an American flag. Gloves. Oh, look at. There's some Christmas decorations. Oh, it's getting hot. Heat rise. Yeah, it's definitely getting stuffy. Okay. Tapped here.

[Tom Nguyen]

So right now we can see all the way down to the other end of east block. And it's just a bunch of open doors.

[Sadiq]

This looks like something from a horror movie. You know that long corridor when you look in? Down. I just. I can imagine being here at nighttime. Still looks like the shining.

[Nigel Poor]

So there we were in the fifth tier. The inside team, me, the two Tonys, to FOIA and to Trinidad, Siddiq, Tom and our friend San Pablo. And as you know, we were just, like, looking for clues about what life was like for the people who live there.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

We have a cell that has hearts on it.

[Nigel Poor]

The first cell we walked into, the guy who lived in there had drawn all these kind of cartoon versions of things on the cell wall. Like, there was lots of red. That's what I remember. And polka dots.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

That's a bikini.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, so there's some graffiti hearts. Maybe a bikini. Oh, there are hearts everywhere.

[Sadiq]

Oh, yeah. All the hearts where the lenses would be on the glasses. It just looks like the guy was trying to liven up his life. It looks like this guy was a happy guy or he was a clown.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm going to step into this cell. This one has. The sound is really different. This one has 1, 2, 3, 4, about 8 to 10 pinup. Kind of pictures of women. And then on the wall in here, some kind of graffiti or something.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

What is that? The phone. Wow. Look at the phone.

[Tony Tafoya]

The phone is on this, like, triangular stand.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay.

[Tony Tafoya]

And it's like, basically portable. It's got wheels and stuff and a long ass extension cord on it so that it can be passed down a tier.

[Nigel Poor]

So this was really interesting. Earlonne. You know, in all of the housing units in San Quentin, you know, when you come in, there's that line of payphones.

[Earlonne Woods]

The old school phones.

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly. So people can make their calls. Calls. But at death row, guys can't leave their cells. And when they do, they're in shackles. So there's no way they're getting on a pay phone. So instead, the phone comes to their cell.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

So. Whoa, here we go. Look at this cell right here.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. Okay.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

It has a funny smell in there too, as well. So we have, like some mold in the sink. Nigel, you see that? Look at that.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, yeah. Okay. This filth really offended Siddiq. Yeah. I mean, you know how he's. Well, most guys inside are super clean. Siddiq is particularly fastidious. He was really, like, I think, kind of grossed out by how dirty some of the cells were.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, I mean, I can imagine some people might just don't give a shit. And they might like, man, fuck this place.

[Nigel Poor]

The sink is full of moldy, like, cardboard or paper. The toilet is full of a white powder. So these guys are in here 24 7, right?

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Yeah. So you can imagine this guy was actually living filthy because it wouldn't be so much grime and stuff on the floor. So this was a filthy guy here. Look at this old toothbrush. This is.

[Sadiq]

This soap looks pretty gnarly.

[Nigel Poor]

Clearly these cells were upsetting. And, you know, imagine people living in there for decades. It's really horrible.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

But I don't think we were taking in how it was affecting us. You know, we were just kind of like looking around and going, oh, my God, look at this. Look at this.

[Shaka]

Right, right.

[Nigel Poor]

And as a group, we were in this. I don't know what to call it. Kind of like this discovery mode.

[Earlonne Woods]

Gotcha.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Yeah. Is that an old. A half a dictionary.

[Nigel Poor]

It's a dictionary. You're right. It's just half a dictionary goes to.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Oh, no. A.

[Nigel Poor]

Where's a. Oh, look it. A little picture.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

A picture of, like, army men holding the American flag.

[Shaka]

Oh, picture of.

[Nigel Poor]

Is it irojima or something?

[Sadiq]

Yeah, when they. When they're lifting up the.

[Nigel Poor]

The American flag.

[Sadiq]

How it's slanted like 45 degrees and.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

We have like little hooks on the wall. It look like sorry pieces. So just imagine a piece to the sorry. The board game.

[Tom Nguyen]

The guy that left us a letter.

[Nigel Poor]

All right, let's go find the letter.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

So a guy left us a letter. Let's go find this letter.

[Nigel Poor]

Siddiq. Tom and I had been in this one cell when Tony came back all excited because he had found a letter that was left in this, like, cell up ahead of us. So he wanted us to all come and see it, like immediately.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

A letter to east block. All right, Is this the letter? Where's the letter?

[Earlonne Woods]

Whoa.

[Sadiq]

Can somebody read it?

[Nigel Poor]

Read it.

[Tony Tafoya]

So he's leaving a message to. He thinks someone else is going to move in here with all the stuff that he left in here. Over here he's like, I stocked up 50 TPS toilet papers, 50 soaps. I was the TP guy. I don't want the TP let the CEOs use the TP supply here. So he's trying to. He's trying to pass on like whoever moves in here to be the next tp.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Okay, so it's one right here too as well. So he has an actual first it says, I'm TP guy. In case you see Axio Reyna, he stocked 50 toilet papers and 50 soaps. That's too much.

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne. It was interesting as we were spending more time in the cells and really digging into what people had left behind. I would like to think that the people in there were becoming more present for us. Like we were sort of guessing at their habits and how they tried to make a life there. I have no idea why that guy had so much toilet paper. I mean, what do you think?

[Earlonne Woods]

There's a few things, you know, a lot of people stack up on toilet paper just to have it. Maybe people that go by can grab a toilet paper from them when they handcuffed or.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, tricky handoffs there.

[Earlonne Woods]

No, it's just, you know, they got game.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, well, I don't know if we'll ever know exactly who the TP man was.

[Earlonne Woods]

The TP man.

[Nigel Poor]

But he took his job seriously.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Then he has a calendar of what's for breakfast. It says scrambled eggs. Hum. And then on Friday it said eggs and cheese. Yum. So he had a whole list of what was going on throughout his life.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, look at. What do you think he was doing on his bunk?

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Cause it's covered with it looks so rusted though.

[Nigel Poor]

It's got all kinds of weird, like, gloppy Stuff on it even.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

It has gloppy stuff on the wall as well. Like a lot of grime or something.

[Earlonne Woods]

That opens up a whole nother door. If the paint is scraped off his bunk and it's down to the metal. He utilized those TPS as a fire. So the fire would go under the bunk, and it would heat up the bottom of the bunk, and then you would cook on the top, and that's what the teepee was for. You would turn the bunk that you sleep on into a grill, and you can just roll your mattress back and heat that area up and get your cook on.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, that makes sense. So what are these are tops to something that he's decorated the wall with?

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Yeah, it looks like tops from, like, a mayonnaise jar or something. Like the little easy open foil.

[Tony Tafoya]

I'm like, oh, this is saying, don't touch that shit.

[Nigel Poor]

Grabbing random shit, you know, like when you open up a container and there's that little safety foil thing, you know, like, say, have you ever opened up, like, vitamins? Yeah. So he had taken whatever he had opened up, whether it was mustard, mayonnaise, vitamins. He had taken that foil and put it on his wall. So his wall was just covered with these silver, like, you know, these circular foil pieces. It was like he was creating an art installation in there. You know, I thought it was kind of cool. So they're put on the wall like a modern art piece or something. Like, he was slowly trying to cover the wall with these parts. And there's a birthday card that someone.

[Tony Tafoya]

Left them, and it's from these two people named. His. I guess his name was Herbert. And their. Their names were Andrea and Rachel. And they say, hello, Herbert, we're very upset that we still have not heard from you. We would like to form a relationship through letters with each of you. Gentlemen, do you think you could find a time to drop us a line? Happy birthday on October 13th from your CAL coordinators, Andrea and Rachel, and everyone at Lifelines. We send you many good wishes.

[Nigel Poor]

Sounds like he didn't want to write back.

[Tony Tafoya]

Yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you think it's interesting that the guy in death row did not want to write back to these people?

[Earlonne Woods]

Herbert probably wasn't into writing people. Herbert probably was shut off from the world, you know, on any type of interaction with people or any type of, you know, writing. Writing is a skill set, and some people get tired of it. And maybe Herbert just didn't like who was writing.

[Nigel Poor]

Interesting.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. He could have just checked out on that type of stuff, you know?

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Whoa. Whoa. This guy said, I have contagious skin.

[Nigel Poor]

So we walked by this one cell and it was really dirty. I mean, the dirtiest. Well, let's.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Oh, can you wanna step?

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Oh, whoa. This is mold everywhere.

[Nigel Poor]

So this says there's something on the wall that says, co. I have contagious skin disease. You may see below some of my medicine for it. P.S. i have a chrono for extra laundry, extra art supplies, American Indian things, extra mattress, an ace bandage, a urinal, and cane.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

But look at his toilet.

[Nigel Poor]

Wow. So the toilet earlonne, you know, like where the stuff goes down. It was almost closed up because it. It was caked with mold.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

I can see why he have a skin disease.

[Nigel Poor]

Wow. The toilet is. How would you describe that?

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Molded with green, blue, white, brown mold.

[Nigel Poor]

Look at the sink.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

It's horrible. How can somebody live like this?

[Earlonne Woods]

Either he couldn't smell or he was using it as a tactical with the police, you know? So if he never cleans his toilet, then they're gonna be like, man, your cells stink. I ain't going in there.

[Nigel Poor]

Could that also be the skin disease? He's like, I have a contagious skin disease.

[Earlonne Woods]

Anything just to keep him out his cell.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. He's got a few spices left.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

A few spices ginger left.

[Nigel Poor]

What's weird to me since city, cuz I don't get any sense of anybody. Like, you don't really feel.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

I don't feel a bad vibe or anything.

[Nigel Poor]

No, I don't feel a good vibe, a bad vibe. It just seems a little oddly neutral.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

So we have a running toilet.

[Earlonne Woods]

What was it running to? Down the tears.

[Nigel Poor]

Why did you get out of there bad? You can hear in our voices. It's obviously a sad place, but we're giddy, we're excited, we're running around and I mean, aren't you surprised we weren't more somber about it?

[Earlonne Woods]

Nah. I mean, you know, it's an empty building.

[Nigel Poor]

I know, but it's death row. I don't think we recognized the gravity of where we were. It was like this teenage spirit had just taken over, and we were kind of running wild.

[Sadiq]

We want everybody to see this, especially Sadiq.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, sorry. So at this point, there's a turn in what's grabbing everyone's interest.

[Sadiq]

Okay, we just had a good little laugh.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

All right, let's see what we got. What tier is it on? On the second tier.

[Sadiq]

Let's go really fast.

[Earlonne Woods]

Come on.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

All right, in the tier office.

[Sadiq]

Let's step in here. Everybody. Step in if you can. I know it's a little tight. Trinidad's older foundation.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Brighter light.

[Shaka]

Okay, Trinidad.

[Nigel Poor]

This was an office where the co sit and Earlonne. It was like the size of a broom closet. You know, no windows, very dingy. I couldn't imagine that being my workplace every day. And it was the only place that actually hadn't been cleared out. There were still, like, the desk and chairs and a ton of paperwork everywhere. And there was also some writing on the wall, which included a pretty offensive joke that I'm not gonna tell here.

[Earlonne Woods]

Joke implies laughing. Why can't I laugh right now?

[Nigel Poor]

I'm gonna have to tell you off mic. Okay. And there was also this one little line written on the wall, and then.

[Tom Nguyen]

Another sign that says, make death Row great again.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Yes.

[Sadiq]

Wow.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

All right, let's start working our way down.

[Nigel Poor]

We got, like, 10 minutes left, maybe. No. Okay. We got no minutes left.

[Earlonne Woods]

I wish I had more time with you guys.

[Nigel Poor]

I was trying to get you an escort.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Okay. Let's work our way down.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. Okay.

[Sadiq]

Thank you, Lieutenant Barry.

[Tom Nguyen]

Yes, thank you. We are leaving east block.

[Sadiq]

So now we're walking back out. We're leaving it. I thought there would be, like, some kind of spiritual.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Sadiq]

Like, I'd feel it when I was walking through, but I didn't feel any of that.

[Tom Nguyen]

Like, you would take a big breath.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Yeah, Just.

[Sadiq]

It was just like a regular building.

[Tom Nguyen]

Yeah, it really was. And now we're back in reality.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. So we just left east block. We were trying to make it down to the media lab, and of course, an alarm went off. Okay. So Earlonne yard, down alarm. And as you know, this happens all the time at San Quentin. But it really snapped us back into the reality of being back to a part of the prison we were familiar with. And so, of course, we all had to sit down and wait for it to pass.

[Earlonne Woods]

Nige, you did not have to sit down.

[Nigel Poor]

No, you're right. I didn't sit down. But when an alarm goes off, all the incarcerated people have to sit down. I mean, wherever they are.

[Earlonne Woods]

I mean, because, you know, they gotta know who's who, you know, who's incarcerated, who's not.

[Nigel Poor]

Yep. Anyway, so the alarm finally stops, and we all get up and start walking back to the media lab, and, you know, San Quentin, we are running into all of the people that we know.

[Earlonne Woods]

Hey, you know, I'm out of here soon, right?

[Nigel Poor]

I had heard next week.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Yeah. Next year.

[Nigel Poor]

Where are you going to go? Oakland Dream Center.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know what I'm saying? You know the Belizean bread. You must go To Oakland Dream Center. You know what I'm saying?

[Nigel Poor]

Stop.

[Tom Nguyen]

Your accent. You know that's fake.

[Tony Tafoya]

Belize, come on.

[Nigel Poor]

So after we saw our friend with the stolen accent. Exactly. There was Hanok playing violin.

[Tom Nguyen]

Play us a ditty. We just went to east block.

[Earlonne Woods]

I would have expected this music to be playing when y'all walked in the east block.

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly. I know. When we finally got to the media lab, we sat down and did a little debrief about our experience.

[Tom Nguyen]

We are recording.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay.

[Tom Nguyen]

I just turned it on.

[Nigel Poor]

So we just got back from east block. We left here about quarter to eight. I was just so curious what everyone's reaction was.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

So when I first walked in east block, I still had, like, a lot of little anxiety and anticipation. But soon as I walked in, it just left, like, the feel that I thought I was going to get. The feeling was gone. The vibes were different. It wasn't like it was spooky or it felt haunted or none of that.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. Like everyone. My expectations were so high and it just. The word I come away with is neutral. But why are we disappointed by that?

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Because I think it's like that big house on the corner of your street that you want to see what's inside, and you finally see what's inside. It's not really as scary as it looked growing up. That's the type of feeling that I had when I went in there.

[Nigel Poor]

So we were all looking for some kind of thrill, right? Yeah. Which is curious to me. The most interesting part was when occasionally one of the cells still had stuff on the wall.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

Left behind by somebody. Like a little note.

[Tony Tafoya]

Do you remember the one cell that had all those little silver foils.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Tony Tafoya]

That you touched for some reason. The one you touched was actually a tuna fish container wrapper.

[Nigel Poor]

I washed my hands good.

[Tony Tafoya]

Did you, like, run them through flame? Because, like, what do you think it's sticking on the wall with? No, not like. Not the worst case scenario. But like, that's like saliva. You gotta think about somebody who never cleans.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Some people just. I guess they decided, like, my life is over, so why clean? I don't need to clean anything. I'm dying anyway. And to live like that, it's like, what am I living for? You know? So that's what I got out of it. There's no point of me cleaning. So to see a lot and to hear a lot.

[Nigel Poor]

Those guys didn't get to leave there. Right.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

They're in that building all day long.

[Nigel Poor]

Confined.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Confined and detached from reality.

[Nigel Poor]

I think the thing is, what we've all been talking about that you have all these expectations and it's your imagination that animates a place and when it's just a place. Yeah. So when I think about going up to East Block, I kept thinking, well, why am I so excited? Why am I so giddy about going to a place that's full of pain? It's because it was an adventure that we could share. And that's. To me, it's really neat.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Yeah. We did it together. And the anticipation, everything was there and we all felt it at the same time. So I think that's why it actually was more meaningful when we went as a team, you know, instead of one person going, we all was able to. We was like saying each other words and everything because we all wanted to know what was going on in East Block, you know, that experience.

[Nigel Poor]

But before we go any further, I think there is something we need to acknowledge. I think it's somebody's birthday today.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Oh, it's TDT's birthday.

[Nigel Poor]

I believe it is somebody's birthday. And we need to sing Happy Birthday.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Are you ready?

[Nigel Poor]

Yep. Which one are we doing?

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

The original one.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. All right. Happy birthday to you Happy birthday to you Happy birthday, dear Tony Happy birthday to you and we gave you the beautiful present today of taking to eclipse.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

On your birthday for sure. So you was able to get your package on your birthday.

[Nigel Poor]

And this was a really sweet ending to the adventure that we had just shared together. But, Earlonne, over the next few days, something about the way we reacted to Death Row was really gnawing at me. Like, really keeping me up at night, really. I wanted to talk to somebody who might see things differently, you know, and sort of get their take on it. Okay, so after the break, Earlonne, there's one more person I want you to hear.

[Earlonne Woods]

We'll be right back. Happy January, Naj.

[Shaka]

What?

[Nigel Poor]

You can't say Happy New Year. Yeah, we supposed to say Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you. Ersaan, New York. Thomas. Thank you. I am super excited to tell you listeners about Radiotopia's newest show, Hyperfixed. Hosted by former Reply all co host Alex Goldman.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Hyperfix is a podcast where you, the.

[Earlonne Woods]

Listener, write in with your problems and Alex solves them. He tackles everything from the origin of.

[Tony Tafoya]

A mysterious button to whether a listener.

[Nigel Poor]

Should have kids or not. This gets pretty personal.

[Tony Tafoya]

That's crazy. That's such a big decision.

[Nigel Poor]

Also, what is this button? Is he talking about buttons on your shirt or is it a very specific button somewhere? Benjamin Button. I don't each episode of Hyperfixed attempts not only to solve listeners problems, but exposes the hidden systems that caused those problems in the first place. Alex is kind of obsessed with solving your problems, and he will go to absurd lengths to try and resolve them.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Help us welcome the newest show to the Radiotopia family. Find Hyperfix on your favorite podcast platform.

[Earlonne Woods]

Now.

[Nigel Poor]

Listeners, do you want even more.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ear Hustle and even fewer ads like zero, zilch, nothing, nada?

[Nigel Poor]

If so, subscribe to Ear Hustle Plus.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ear Hustle plus subscribers get access to ad free episodes and bonus episodes.

[Nigel Poor]

Our Ear Hustle plus episodes are really fun. Subscribers can find out what's happening with people they've heard on previous episodes, and they can also send in questions for us to answer.

[Earlonne Woods]

And me and Nigel get to sit here and chop it up with our producer Bruce and just talk about whatever.

[Nigel Poor]

If you want to hear more of that, subscribe to ear hustle [e-mail] plus or directly in Apple Podcasts.

[Earlonne Woods]

And thanks for supporting the show. We appreciate y'all. And send in some provocative questions, spicy.

[Nigel Poor]

Questions.

[Shaka]

I kept asking myself, where are you guys at? What cell are you referring to? The one with the butterflies and the heart. Yeah, I'm trying to rack my brain trying to figure out who the heck that was.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you recognize this guy's voice?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, that's old boy from the episode we just did about books and his name, Shaka.

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly. So he had actually lived on death row. And listeners might remember he's the guy that talked about how some people he felt actually had to be in prison, should be in prison.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, I definitely remember that.

[Nigel Poor]

And the reason I wanted to bring him down was that, you know, after listening to the tape of me and the guys walking around east block, there was just something about the tone of the tour that didn't sit right with me. And so I asked Shotgun if he would come in and talk about it with us.

[Shaka]

91 till 23, I lived in the same cell.

[Nigel Poor]

I hear that. And I just chills me, like, I can't. I don't have words to express how, like, trying to understand that. And so to think about how I feel now, sitting across from you, looking at you and thinking, how did this man live like that for 30 years? There's not. It's like we're in two different universes. We brought Shaka down to the media lab and we actually played the episode for him. The recording of us going into death row and our reactions to it and watching him listen to the episode. He was so intense. Like he was so present, his face, his body language. And I was a little bit nervous about what he was going to hear and I was really worried he was going to find it disrespectful. Are you glad that you heard that? Do you wish you didn't hear us up there?

[Shaka]

I'm glad that you guys took the time to go through there. You know that officer that said make death row great again, that was a jerk. He wanted executions to start back up. That's the only way he could have met that. Now that had me try to remember all the jerks that worked at east block and I knew a few of them. But if you didn't go through there, that would be sad. That what happened on death row was yesterday news. And it's not. I can't forget some of the things that I saw. Can't forget some of the things that I heard or say. Why was so deaf Row?

[Nigel Poor]

Now I'm imagining how different it would have been to go to east block with you and see it through your eyes. We wouldn't. I doubt we would have been laughing very much. Maybe some laughs.

[Shaka]

Well, but see, that's old sad. You laugh to keep from crying. That's true. You make jokes to be able to break a little humor to a sad. A bad situation. It was some bad times, it was some sad moments. But we laugh. You know what I mean? There's old saying, laugh to keep from crying. We laugh at each other. Or should I say we laugh with each other, not at each other. It was your way of coming to reality that we live every day. The fact that you guys was curious enough to go through there and try to figure out what we was dealing with says a lot about you. You guys wanted to know.

[Nigel Poor]

I appreciate what you're saying, but I do think it was because we were together as a group and like none of us had ever been there before. And it was like a bonding experience. Experience. But there's just so much laughing every time I hear it, I feel uncomfortable with it.

[Shaka]

But see, that's you guys. That was you guys way of dealing with the stress maybe. And I don't think bad of you at all for doing it. And I lived there.

[Nigel Poor]

Well, what if you had taken us there? What would you have showed us? What would you want us to know?

[Shaka]

Obviously I would have showed you the same. And if we had the run of the place, I would have showed you the yard that I was on every day for over 30 years. The cell did my homeboy Hug himself here. I would have had to show you that.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. It's a little bit hard to hear what he's saying, but he's saying he would have showed us the cell where his. Where his friend hung himself.

[Shaka]

Reaper was like a brother to me. I loved him. When they brought my homeboy out, I got up and walked to the bars and looked out and I see death on his face. And I saw that for weeks afterward. Still see that to this day. That was the last time that I got up and watched if they removed somebody off the chair the last time. The cold part is that all he had to do was stand up. So his will to. To die was stroll. All he had to do was stand up.

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne, can you understand what he's saying?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes.

[Nigel Poor]

It's grim to have to repeat it, but basically he's saying all the guy had to do was stand up.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right. Cause the bunk isn't that tall.

[Nigel Poor]

So he really had a.

[Earlonne Woods]

He had a will.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Shaka]

Now that kind of got to me how bad that he wanted this, because if he straightened his feet out, he would stand it up.

[Nigel Poor]

To do that is hard to get your mind around.

[Shaka]

Yes, it is. So that's, that's what I would have told you about.

[Nigel Poor]

I mean, now sitting here, and I just have to describe this because this is audio. So you're sitting back in a chair. You actually look pretty relaxed now. It's more like you're sitting in a car and you're looking at me in a three quarter view. You have a very nice profile. And I feel like we really missed an opportunity by not being able to be there with you. Because now the way you're talking about it, I'm having a different experience of what it was like.

[Shaka]

It would have been a boy and death story because you would have had firsthand and a range of emotion. Right.

[Nigel Poor]

So I feel very mixed about us putting this part out about us up in East Bach. We're gonna do it.

[Shaka]

You got to.

[Nigel Poor]

But it just sounds so. It sounds so. Every time I hear it, I cringe a little bit.

[Shaka]

But that's because you care. See, if you would just try to make a story, you would care. You know, you, you, you care about what you do it, and that's obvious.

[Nigel Poor]

So you don't think we're doing a disservice to your experience?

[Shaka]

It's not. It's not. I never felt discarded or disrespected. Listen to that.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. Okay. Well, I appreciate that. And I think you would tell me if you did.

[Shaka]

I have A stroll of pee. And if I felt that you had disrespected me or somebody else, I would have told you.

[Nigel Poor]

So at this point, a couple guys from the inside team had joined me, and Siddiq had a question for Shaka.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

So how would you feel going back in condemned role knowing that it's empty now? Like, what effect you think it'll have on you?

[Shaka]

Well, I already bit back.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

Oh, you bit back.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm not really sure of the circumstances of this, but somehow Shaka was able to go back and see his old cell, and he actually went inside and sat down.

[Shaka]

I walked back up to the cell that I was housed in. When I walked to this cell, I made a point to push the door all the way open. So could nobody come along and close the door open? That was something new, because every time you walk in the cell, first thing you hear was a click. Door shut. And then lock the door. Although I didn't think they would do that. But it's just the freedom that I had while I was able to do that. It was not a sad moment. You know, it was like when I walk out of the cell, I never come back into the cell. Death row is behind me as I walk down the steps. Those steps that you guys talked about was clear. I knew that I had left that part of my life behind me. And when I walked out the door, I said, good riddance.

[Nigel Poor]

So, Earlonne, that's my mystery episode for the season. And now you're up. So your mystery episode drops in a couple weeks. And I can't wait.

[Earlonne Woods]

I may have snuck you in in the beginning.

[Darrell Sadiq Davis]

What?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, I may have snuck you in in the beginning. See?

[Nigel Poor]

All right. I can't wait.

[Earlonne Woods]

You gotta watch me with a mic. Wait for you to hear it.

[Nathan Dalton]

My name is Adam Brown. I am a day one fan of Ear Hustle, and I'm a professor of social work at the Silberman School for Social Work at Hunter College in New York City. And now going to get coffee with Nigel. Ear Hustle is produced by Nigel Poor, Earlonne Woods, Amy Standen, Bruce Wallace, Rahsaan, N.Y. thomas and Cat Schuknecht. Shubham Sigman is the managing producer. The producing team, Inside San Quentin includes Darrell Sadiq Davis, Tony De Trinidad, and Tom Wynn. The inside managing producer is Tony Tafoya. Thanks also to Areesteo Sampablo. Thanks to acting Warden Andes as San Quentin and acting Warden Parker and Lt. Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show. Thanks also to this woman Here I.

[Nigel Poor]

Am Lieutenant Giamari Berry, the public information officer at San Quentin Rehabilitation center, and I approve this episode.

[Nathan Dalton]

This episode was made possible by the Just Trust building a smaller, more humane engine of justice and safety across the country.

[Earlonne Woods]

Thanks to Rasheed Zinneman for introducing us to Shaka.

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne woods sound designs and engineers the show with help from Fernando Arruda, Harry Culhane and Darrell Siddiq Davis.

[Earlonne Woods]

Music for this episode comes from Darrell Siddiq Davis, Tom Nguyen, Antwan Williams and me.

[Nigel Poor]

For more information about the episode, you can check out the show notes on ear hustle's website, earhustlesq.com and I want to add while you're at the website, there's more to check out there.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes.

[Nigel Poor]

Like the new curriculum. Yes. We've got this great curriculum.

[Earlonne Woods]

Free.

[Nigel Poor]

Free. So if you're a teacher, if you're the education world, please check out our curriculum and let us know what you think.

[Earlonne Woods]

It'll save you a gang of time in your classroom because it's comprehensible, it's deep and your students will get a lot out of it.

[Nigel Poor]

Absolutely.

[Earlonne Woods]

And if you want to keep up with all things Ear Hustle, you know, with where Nigel Shop's at, you know what I'm saying? Where I.

[Nigel Poor]

Where Earlonne gets his lunch.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, where I get my lunch. You know, if you want to just stay up on what Ear Hustle do, please sign up for our monthly email newsletter, the Lowdown.

[Nigel Poor]

And you'll find [e-mail] newsletter.

[Earlonne Woods]

You can find us on social media, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube. Earhustlesq.

[Nigel Poor]

And there's actually some new stuff happening on YouTube soon.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh yeah, you know, we gonna have some Ear Hustle shorts coming soon at Earlonne. Not shorts that you wear. Short video. You can definitely find that at Ear Hustle sq.

[Nigel Poor]

That is pretty exciting.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes.

[Nigel Poor]

And if you're not already, follow and review Ear Hustle on any of your favorite podcast platforms like Apple Podcasts, Spotify and the iHeartRadio app.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia from prx, a network of independent, creator owned, listener supported podcasts.

[Nigel Poor]

Discover audio with vision at Radiotopia fm.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm Earlonne Woods.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm Nigel Poor. Thanks for listening and Earlonne, thanks for being here for two episodes.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, yeah. You did that. You did that, Nigel.

[Nigel Poor]

Radiotopia from prx.