Revisiting “12 Hours on the Yard”

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary: Ear Hustle - Revisiting “12 Hours on the Yard”

Introduction

In the episode titled "Revisiting '12 Hours on the Yard,'" released on July 9, 2025, hosts Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods of Ear Hustle & Radiotopia delve into a reflective analysis of their own episode "12 Hours on the Yard." This episode serves as both a retrospective and an educational tool, offering listeners a deep dive into the storytelling and production techniques that make Ear Hustle a standout podcast in the realm of prison narratives.

Overview of “12 Hours on the Yard”

"12 Hours on the Yard" originally aired on September 6, 2023, as part of Season 12. The episode provides an immersive experience by documenting a full 12-hour day on the San Quentin prison yard. Through real-time interactions with inmates and officers, the episode captures the daily rhythms, interpersonal dynamics, and personal stories that unfold within the prison environment.

Key Moments and Interactions

Throughout the 12-hour period, the hosts engage with various individuals on the yard, including Officer Jay Azevedo and inmate Tony Tafoya (also known as Trinidad). Notable interactions include:

• Morning Preparations ([09:22] - [12:18]): The episode opens early in the morning, capturing the quiet before the yard comes to life. Nigel Poor remarks, "It's the earliest I've ever been in here. I have no idea what the yard's going to look like."

• Introduction to the Crew ([15:27] - [16:46]): The team introduces the new producers and outlines the genesis of the episode's concept, inspired by a This American Life episode titled "24 Hours at the Golden Apple."

• Casual Conversations and Gameplay ([20:32] - [23:49]): Interactions with inmates engaged in various activities, such as Dominoes and Dungeons & Dragons, highlight the social structures and coping mechanisms within the yard. Earlonne comments, "Domino is a shit-talking game in prison," emphasizing the grit and humor that permeate inmate interactions.

• Personal Stories and Reflections ([29:36] - [42:36]): Tony Tafoya shares his emotional journey, discussing the loss of his mother and concerns about his father, revealing the human side of incarceration. He states, "I have a lot of stress. I just lost my mother a little over a month ago, and now my father, he went back to Samoa..."

• Evening Wind-Down ([55:52] - [67:42]): As the day concludes, the episode captures the yard's transition from active play to quieter, more contemplative states. Tony reflects, "This is deep," highlighting the introspective nature of the evening.

Production Techniques and Storytelling Approaches

During the revisit, Nigel and Earlonne discuss the innovative storytelling methods employed in "12 Hours on the Yard." They highlight the use of real-time documentation and minimalist narration, allowing the natural sounds and conversations of the yard to drive the narrative forward. Bruce Schuchnecht and Kat Schuchnecht, Ear Hustle’s production team, provide insights into their editing choices, such as maintaining "tape-to-tape transitions" to preserve the episode's immersive quality.

Notable Quotes:

• Nigel Poor ([37:51]): "The whole idea is like, go to a place and see what happens."
• Kat Schuchnecht ([39:35]): "These check-ins help keep the story moving forward without a traditional narrative arc."

Insights and Reflections

The hosts reflect on the episode's impact both on their audience and their own team. They discuss how "12 Hours on the Yard" serves as an oral history, capturing moments that might otherwise go undocumented. The episode's inclusion in the Library of Congress underscores its cultural and historical significance.

Key Insights:

• Segregation and Social Dynamics: Karin Schuchnecht notes, "The backyard is segregated, and there's not a lot of interaction with races," highlighting the entrenched social divisions within the prison system.
• Therapeutic Activities: Tony Tafoya explains the therapeutic benefits of activities like handball, stating, "It's like a daily vitamin. You just have to come out here and just let it all out."

Conclusions

"Revisiting '12 Hours on the Yard'" not only celebrates a milestone in Ear Hustle's catalog but also serves as a learning tool for aspiring podcasters and those interested in prison life narratives. The episode exemplifies how authentic, real-time storytelling can foster empathy and understanding, breaking down stereotypes associated with incarceration.

Final Thoughts:

• Nigel Poor ([75:08]): "This was so much more fun than I thought it was gonna be."
• Bruce Schuchnecht ([66:00]): "It's a different feeling to listen to it now after this last season when the guys were on mic so much and they've grown so much."

Looking Forward

The episode concludes with plans for future projects, including live tours and expanded storytelling initiatives within other prisons. The discussion emphasizes the continuous evolution of Ear Hustle and its commitment to amplifying diverse voices within the criminal justice system.

Notable Quotes Throughout the Episode

• Earlonne Woods ([11:09]): "Do you just get used to it?"
• Tony Tafoya ([29:40]): "Walking is primarily a walking meditation for me."
• Officer Jay Azevedo ([51:40]): "When you look into the eyes of an intelligent being, there is no question the intelligence that is looking back at you."

Conclusion

"Revisiting '12 Hours on the Yard'" is a testament to Ear Hustle's dedication to authentic storytelling and its innovative approach to podcasting. By revisiting and analyzing their own work, Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods offer listeners a comprehensive understanding of what makes Ear Hustle a powerful voice in narrating the realities of prison life.

Transcript

[Earlonne Woods]

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[Nigel Poor]

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[Earlonne Woods]

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[Nigel Poor]

Hello.

[Earlonne Woods]

For some reason, whenever the weather gets warmer, I start thinking about my clothes. Do you do the same?

[Nigel Poor]

I do. I get that spring urge to update my closet, but I try not to waste money on pieces I'll only wear for one season.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's what's up. I mean, that's why we both like shopping at Quint's. Their clothes are timeless.

[Nigel Poor]

Yes, exactly. And I love these stylish tapered cargo pants. I've already bought one pair. I just ordered a second. And I also told my sister she had to get a pair because they look and they are totally perfect for summer and actually other seasons, too.

[Earlonne Woods]

So you'll be wearing them live on stage in August?

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, you know, I will. Definitely. And the best part is, everything with Quints is half the cost of similar brands.

[Earlonne Woods]

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[Nigel Poor]

And Quint's only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices. And premium fabrics and finishes, Give your.

[Earlonne Woods]

Summer closet an upgrade with quince. Go to quints.com earhustle for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C E.com earhustle to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Nigel Poor]

Quince.com earhustle.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Kat Schuchnecht. Hello.

[Bruce]

Hey, Bruce.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Welcome to the studios at kqed.

[Bruce]

Thank you so much. It feels really good to be behind a mic.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah. Yeah. You seem natural. Seems like a very natural place for you to be.

[Bruce]

I'm a human.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yes, that's right. Even though in your role, you aren't one of the people behind the mic that often tell us about your role for those who don't know you.

[Bruce]

That's right. I rarely get behind the mic because I'm spending my time doing a couple different things. One is producing stories, so helping Nigel and Earlonne bring their stories to life. And the other thing I do is I am helping Ear Hustle launch a storytelling training program at a women's prison in the LA area, which is so exciting.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

And some listeners will have heard us talk about the California Institution for Women that's the one. And that's where we've been working for a long time to launch this program. We're recording this on July 3rd. Is there any news you would care to share with us?

[Bruce]

Oh, just some small news that we're gonna have our first class next Thursday.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

So it's amazing.

[Bruce]

It's real. Yeah.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

It's been a long time coming and we've been scheming and dreaming about it for a long time. So I'm glad it has finally happened. And it's happening because of a lot of perseverance and diplomacy and all of the things on your part. And that actually does, in a maybe tangential way. Not tangential way. Your role does actually relate to the episode we're gonna listen to today before we get into that and explain how it relates to that. I should say we're doing. I can't remember what number of sleeper hit this is. Maybe fifth or sixth.

[Bruce]

I think that's right.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

And the idea here is members of the Ear Hustle staff pick an episode from our catalog of now125 episodes that they really liked and they feel like didn't get the love that it deserved the first time out. So we're going back and we're listening to them talking about them rediscovering some of them. And I'm really excited for a few reasons about the one you've chosen.

[Bruce]

Oh, good.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Why don't you say which one you've chosen?

[Bruce]

Yes.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay.

[Bruce]

I've chosen 12 hours on the Yard. This episode came out long before I joined the Ear Hustle team. So I heard this as a fan and I love it because I use it in my teaching. So I teach podcast students at a college in the LA area.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

And.

[Bruce]

And I use this story all the time. It's based on a canonical this American Life episode called 24 Hours at the Golden Apple. And I seem to remember seeing a picture of you, Bruce, standing outside the Golden Apple recently.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

This was. I mean, I've been this American Life fan. It's kind of sort of why I got interested in this work initially. So this episode was canonical for me. And I was in Chicago in May, driving around. Oh, my son was napping in the car. So I was driving around Chicago randomly while he napped. And I happened to drive past this 24 hour diner which has an amazing.

[Bruce]

Was it planned?

[Kat Schuchnecht]

No, not at all. Totally random. But it was like, for like a public radio nerd. It was like Hollywood star, right?

[Bruce]

Exactly. It's like seeing Harrison Ford or whatever.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah, that's right. And it is. Yeah. So that episode is about a diner. Basically, this American Life staff spend 24 hours at a diner in Chicago and just see what happens.

[Bruce]

That's right. And it's such a brilliant storytelling approach. You know, usually you start with a character who has some kind of narrative going on, but this was just like it's a different story formula. It's time plus place. And so Ear Hustle did their own version of this. It was 12 hours, not 24. And it was on the yard in San Quentin, right?

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Mm, exactly.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Okay.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

And the reason that we ended up being inspired by that episode was because a few years ago, when Rahsaan got out, we sort of reconstituted how the team worked inside, how we thought about working with the folks inside. Up until that point, we'd always, you know, we'd had Earlonne and then Rahsaan an inside co host, but for a variety of reasons, we kind of wanted. And the main reason being we wanted to expand the team and sort of do make sort of skills available to more people and maybe more applicable skills. So after Rahsaan left, we did a call out and we were hiring for producers rather than hosts. And you can have more producers than hosts. So we ended up with a team, I think of about four or five people. And back then we were doing, before we started doing the workshops that you are now heading, developing, you know, this like months long podcast training. We were just doing a lot of listening and this was one of the sort of canonical episodes that we brought in to listen to. And in talking about it, we were like, what would that look like here?

[Bruce]

Got it.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

So that.

[Bruce]

Oh, that's cool to hear how it all came to be.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah. Yeah. So one of the reasons I love this episode, one sort of personal reason, is that it is sort of like the premiere of that new team. It's like the first time we all went out and worked on a project.

[Bruce]

So.

[Tony Tafoya]

Cool.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah. I also just love, like, obviously I've been going into San Quentin for six or seven years now.

[Bruce]

Yeah.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

And so the yard has become like a real central place to the work I do. So it was nice to have like a reason to think about how to document this place one day in the life of that place.

[Bruce]

Yeah. Listeners will know that in order to get to the media center, you walk across the yard and it's a really singular experience. And then we do yard talk. Right. Which is where you guys go out and interview people on the yard.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah.

[Bruce]

So this was a different way of relating to the Yard.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Totally.

[Bruce]

Yeah.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

And then maybe the final reason it feels appropriate to be listening to this with you is because it dates back to the days of us beginning to do trainings in San Quentin. Think about not just producing the episode, but sort of like, do some more intentional skill building in there with a larger team. We did our sort of like, maiden voyage with the guys you'll hear in this episode. And now that's sort of like the DNA for what you have expanded and made far more professional and good and exciting. I see the syllabus and it makes me want to take it.

[Bruce]

Oh, that's really cool to hear. I'm secretly campaigning for 12 hours on the CIW yard. It would be really different.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah, maybe let's put a pin in that and return to that idea after we listen to the first segment.

[Bruce]

Cool.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Anything else you wanted to say? Just generally about why you wanted to hear the episode.

[Bruce]

I just want listeners to really think about the way that Nigel and Earlonne and all the producers make you see what's happening, kind of the techniques they use to do that.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Totally.

[Bruce]

It's one of my favorite things.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

That's a good prompt. Okay, so we're gonna listen to the first segment, then we'll come back and talk about what we heard in the first segment, and then we'll listen to the second segment, come back and kind of wrap it up after that.

[Bruce]

Excellent. I'm excited.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

So here is the first episode from season 12, so three seasons ago. Episode 93, 12 Hours on the Yard, originally dropped on September 6, 2023.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Oh, touching on the art. This is Officer Jay Azevedo. This episode of Ear Hustle contains language and content that may not be suitable for all listeners. Discretion is advised.

[Nigel Poor]

So it's like 6 o' clock and we just walked through the gate and the sun's already up. It's the earliest I've ever been in here. I have no idea what the yard's.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Going to look like.

[Nigel Poor]

You think there's going to be anyone down there? Right now the yard is totally empty. It's peaceful. It's just quiet. You know that people are probably looking at you, but you don't see them.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, that's true. They looking down at you, wondering what you doing? We got one guy coming across the field now, Nige.

[Nigel Poor]

Good morning.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Good morning.

[Nigel Poor]

Are you the first person on the yard?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Tony Tafoya]

I have a duck for six o'.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Clock.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, what's your name?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Lewis.

[Nigel Poor]

Lewis. Do you know what time it is, Lewis?

[Earlonne Woods]

Maybe 6:15, 6, 20 something.

[Nigel Poor]

Is it usually this quiet? 6, 15.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yeah. They're going to start serving breakfast real soon.

[Nigel Poor]

Don't you think it's actually kind of peaceful right now?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yeah, it is right now.

[Nigel Poor]

What do you think of the view up there?

[Tony Tafoya]

That's stunning.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Looks real good. But not from here.

[Nigel Poor]

Not from here. Does it torment you?

[Tony Tafoya]

No, I. I really don't even pay attention.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, well, thanks for talking to us.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yes, ma'. Am. You guys have a good day.

[Nigel Poor]

Bye.

[Bruce]

Good morning.

[Earlonne Woods]

Good morning.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

How are you guys? Good.

[Nigel Poor]

You going to work? What's in your bag?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Lunch.

[Nigel Poor]

Look at those tiny carrots.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Little carrots. Some apples. I try to get all the carrots I can.

[Nigel Poor]

I would call those tiny carrots. Those are tiny.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yeah, they are. We don't get too many vegetables. So I try to get what I can.

[Nigel Poor]

So for most of the population, the yard hasn't really officially opened up yet, right?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, it's too early. I mean, most people are still confined in their housing units or they stuck in the child home.

[Nigel Poor]

So if you're here, it's because you actually have a job on the yard. What do you do in the yard?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I'm the yard crew worker. I work behind the fence here. Control of the toilets, all the yard equipment. All the yard equipment works trash cans. Keeping all the bushes knocked down, keeping.

[Tony Tafoya]

Everything mowed out here.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Everything yard clean. From when you all come inside here, it looks really nice.

[Nigel Poor]

Looks nice in here.

[Tony Tafoya]

I have to say yes.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you take care of the toilets over here?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yes.

[Earlonne Woods]

Clean them every day.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm sure you're used to seeing those toilets, but people come to visit. It's so disconcerting to have to walk by toilets. But do you just get used to it?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yes, I'm used to it now. I'm used to it. Seeing all kinds of things over there.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, yeah.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

So. But anyway, I gotta stop for a minute. Cause my boss just called me that was called me.

[Bruce]

Bye.

[Earlonne Woods]

Okay.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

All right.

[Nigel Poor]

Near the entrance of the yard, there are these two little. Kind of like shacks.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, they like little small houses. What they call them, they're on the streets now.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, tiny houses.

[Earlonne Woods]

They're tiny houses.

[Nigel Poor]

Tiny houses. And in one of them there's an incarcerated guy who's organizing stuff. And it looks like he's getting ready for a busy day.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

Getting everything in order. Seeing what he got.

[Nigel Poor]

What's your name?

[Tony Tafoya]

Navion Starks.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you have a nickname that you got?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Smooth.

[Nigel Poor]

You are Smooth.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yes.

[Nigel Poor]

We were told we had to find Smooth.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Oh, okay.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's Me Olay smooth runs the wreck shack. And the yard is all about rec. So this is a very important position. He's in charge of giving out all the rec equipment each morning and checking it back in when everybody's done.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

What do we got here?

[Tony Tafoya]

Basketball, ab rollers, soccer, baseball, softball, football.

[Earlonne Woods]

Volleyball, kickball, punching bag, heavy bag, MMA.

[Tony Tafoya]

Gloves, horseshoes, dominoes, yoga mats, cards, tennis, scrabble, chess.

[Nigel Poor]

Here.

[Tony Tafoya]

Jump ropes. Yeah, there is a lot here.

[Nigel Poor]

About 20ft away from the rec shack is the other building in the yard. It's the lower yard, max shack. And COs are in there all day, kind of keeping an eye on things. And right now, Officer Acevedo, who did that listener alert at the top of the show, he's in there. Hey, good morning.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Morning. How are you?

[Nigel Poor]

Good. Are you out here today?

[Tony Tafoya]

Yes, ma'.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Am.

[Nigel Poor]

I just want to tell you we are on the yard for 12 hours today recording, just so you know.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Okay, cool.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm Nigel, this is Amy and Bruce.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Nigel is the Ear Hustle.

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yes, ma'.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Am.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you listen to Ear Hustle?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

You know, I've, I've dabbled a little bit. I'm, I'm a podcast guy. I do the murder mystery stuff, you know.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you listen to Dateline?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

All the time.

[Nigel Poor]

I love Dateline.

[Tony Tafoya]

So what are we doing on the yard?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

What's, what's the plan?

[Nigel Poor]

The idea is to just what happens over a 12 hour period on the yard. So we got here at 6.

[Bruce]

Okay.

[Nigel Poor]

And we're staying till 6. So I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen.

[Earlonne Woods]

Where did this idea come from?

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, well, one day we were all down in the media lab with our brand new crew of producers.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right, right.

[Nigel Poor]

And actually no one's met them yet. So do you think this would be a good time for them to introduce.

[Earlonne Woods]

Themselves to hear their personalities?

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Hey, what's up?

[Tony Tafoya]

I'm Roberto Antonio Michael Valentino Viegrand de Trinidad the third. But you can just call me Trinidad, though.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

How you doing?

[Steve Brooks]

This is Steve Brooks, the voice of San Quentin Saucy.

[Tony Tafoya]

It's Darrell Davis, but you can call me Sadiq.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

That's what I go by.

[Tony Tafoya]

I'm the inside managing producer, Tony Tafoya.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Hi, my name is Tham Nguyen, part of the Ear Hustle team. And I'm just glad to be here. I'm the only Asian.

[Earlonne Woods]

Hello, my name is Dante D. Jones. I am the Ear Hustle official photographer. So throughout this episode, you're going to be hearing from these inside cats.

[Nigel Poor]

Yep, they'll all be out in the yard with us reporting on what's going on.

[Earlonne Woods]

And actually, the whole idea for this episode came right out of this room and from this team.

[Nigel Poor]

Right, Exactly. So as part of the training inside San Quentin, we bring in different episodes from various podcasts that we all admire, and we sit down and listen together and critique and talk about what we works and doesn't work and also what inspires us. And we were listening to an old episode from what podcast?

[Tony Tafoya]

I think it was called this American Life.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. What was the name of the episode?

[Tony Tafoya]

I don't remember the name of the episode, but it was about this.

[Nigel Poor]

24 hours at the Golden Apple.

[Tony Tafoya]

Yeah. 24 hours at the Golden Apple. Yeah. Golden Apple was about 24 hours inside a diner. Did I actually go there and just sit around for 24 hours with a recorder and just let the recorder just record and just not knowing what's going to happen. So after hearing the stories in there and meeting some of the characters in that story, we were kind of thinking about our own little experience here in San Quentin. And we were thinking that we got characters and there's little stories happening here all the time. Maybe we should try to try to recreate that ourselves and give that a whirl.

[Earlonne Woods]

So on this Monday in early July, we are heading out to the historic San Quentin lower yard.

[Nigel Poor]

And what do you think's gonna happen?

[Earlonne Woods]

A fight? A stabbing? A murder?

[Nigel Poor]

We're gonna be in the San Quentin park.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, oh, okay, okay. A pillow fight? A feather fight?

[Nigel Poor]

Well, I can't wait to find out.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm Earlonne Woods.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm Nigel Poor.

[Earlonne Woods]

This is ear hustle from PRX's Radiotopia.

[Nigel Poor]

12 hours on the San Quentin yard.

[Earlonne Woods]

Crossword puzzles.

[Steve Brooks]

Hello, hello, Hello. We're out here on the yard early in the morning, and there's a yard crew worker out here setting up on the baseball diamond. What's up, man?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Good morning.

[Steve Brooks]

So what you got going on out here?

[Tony Tafoya]

Just getting the baseball field ready for our game on Wednesday. I watered the grass and then I come into the infield. Watered the dirt down to keep the dust and to be able to soften up the dirt, stamp it all down and get it all nice and level again. Make it look like nobody's even played on the field yet. So everybody gets the feeling of being the first to play on the field. I love being on the baseball field, and it's therapeutic.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. The yard is starting to perk up. I think it's about seven o'. Clock.

[Bruce]

Hey, good morning.

[Nigel Poor]

What are y' all doing here?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Waiting in line to go to coding.

[Nigel Poor]

Coding? Oh, you all work for coding?

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yes. This whole line's coding this morning.

[Nigel Poor]

I didn't know so many people did coding back here.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Good morning. Morning.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Good morning.

[Nigel Poor]

There's a little carrot on the ground. Good morning.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Morning.

[Earlonne Woods]

At one end of the yard, there's a fenced in lot. And sometimes you see a white van sitting there.

[Nigel Poor]

This is the van that brings guys in and out of San Quentin.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. And this morning it's out there waiting for this guy here you have Mr. Hayes.

[Nigel Poor]

Hi. Hey. I'm Nigel. What's your name?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

William Hayes.

[Nigel Poor]

William Hayes. What's going on right now?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I'm going home. Wow. Yeah.

[Bruce]

So what are you gonna do when you work?

[Kat Schuchnecht]

I'm gonna do construction for a little bit.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I gotta make amends with my family.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

My dad and my sister don't talk.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

To me right now.

[Nigel Poor]

Do they know you're getting out?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I'm not sure if they do or not. I haven't talked to them in over a year. We're gonna see what happens when I get out. Just like, hey, dad, want to meet? You know, so he's pretty mad at me right now.

[Nigel Poor]

Does he have a reason to be?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yeah. I was selling drugs out of his house.

[Nigel Poor]

Let's go over here. All right, starting so it's eight in the morning and we're standing by the stairs to north block. And picture cramped cement stairs. I guess there's cement at least 30 plus because I know we run out of breath going up them. There's a bunch of people at the top of the stairs that are just waiting to come down, like to get to work and stuff. And I think the CO says, what.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yard release or work release or, you know, something like that.

[Nigel Poor]

And then it's like. And all these like dozens and dozens of feet are coming down those stairs fast.

[Earlonne Woods]

People ready to get off themselves.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, it's Boots here.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Come.

[Nigel Poor]

Here comes Boots walking down the stairs. He's heading to work, I think. Boots, are you going to work? Heading down to the media lab. Heading in. So, Arlan, what are some of the things guys are coming down here to do?

[Earlonne Woods]

These guys are coming down the stairs to either go to their jobs, to go to school, go to the yard, hang out on a basketball court, play volleyball, tennis, you know what I'm saying? That's what they come out here to do in the morning.

[Nigel Poor]

Work or play.

[Earlonne Woods]

Work or play. Yeah, definitely.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Be nice. We don't have no nice talking over here. Ain't no nice talking.

[Earlonne Woods]

We Tell it all.

[Nigel Poor]

Will you introduce yourself?

[Kat Schuchnecht]

My name is Mr. White and Osman Walton.

[Nigel Poor]

And what are you doing right now?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Right now? I'm going to whoop his ass. I'm going to whoop his ass. Dominoes.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you agree, Mr. White?

[Tony Tafoya]

I refuse to answer that.

[Earlonne Woods]

Peeing right now.

[Nigel Poor]

Wait, Earl. I have to say I've heard about these guys for a while and clearly they are out here all freaking day playing.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

They're intense.

[Earlonne Woods]

Domino is a shit talking game in prison.

[Nigel Poor]

You know which is more the game.

[Earlonne Woods]

The shit talk or the shit talk is the game. But you gotta have thick skin for that. Yes, you gotta have thick skin for that shit talking.

[Nigel Poor]

Well, these guys definitely do. And they're right behind the rec shack where smooth works. And they just are here all day playing and talking.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Try to be nice though.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Let's go with that. I take this money. I take this money. You ain't going to take no money. You too goddamn scared?

[Earlonne Woods]

5Bl you scary? Yeah.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

5.

[Earlonne Woods]

Look at that. Give me another nickel.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

This mother got a nickel.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Pull some up.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Just lucky pulling ass.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Give me a dime. They call this thing the squeegee.

[Tony Tafoya]

All I'm doing is trying to get the morning dew off the top of the table.

[Nigel Poor]

What are you going to be doing.

[Tony Tafoya]

Once you get the morning dew on Tabletop gaming.

[Nigel Poor]

Is this the D and D area?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yeah, this is for you.

[Tony Tafoya]

We like to call ourselves the Nerd Herd here.

[Earlonne Woods]

A few tables away from Osmond and Mr. White. Right behind the co shack are the gaming tables. And this is where the Nerd herd hang out.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. Some of them take umbrage called the Nerd Herd and some of them wear it proudly. What do you call them? What do you call them?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Nothing, we're just people.

[Bruce]

Just people?

[Tony Tafoya]

Just guys meeting for a game.

[Nigel Poor]

May I ask you a question?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[Nigel Poor]

If I say this word, tell me how you feel.

[Bruce]

Nerd heard.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Indifferent at first.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

When I was younger, nerd was considered a disrespectful. But as I've gotten older, I've considered nerd being as a compliment. Thank you. Because it shows that I do have.

[Tony Tafoya]

Some form of a intelligence, if not much.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Maybe some.

[Tony Tafoya]

I've heard the terms pro social gaming. Is this pro social gaming? Oh yes, very much so.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

There's no need to draw your sword.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Every time even though you have it a lot easier and a lot safer.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

To to talk your way out of it.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Even if talking your way out of it is running or using a kabuki.

[Tony Tafoya]

Goblin for interpretive dance.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Oh my God.

[Nigel Poor]

Can we see some of that?

[Earlonne Woods]

No, absolutely not.

[Nigel Poor]

Can we come back periodically and check in and see how the game's going?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I have no problem with that whatsoever. Dennis Rogers, report to the shack.

[Nigel Poor]

Very charming. Look forward to. We'll come back, of course.

[Tony Tafoya]

Have a nice morning, guys.

[Earlonne Woods]

The DD table is one of the few tables where you will see the mixing of races. Because if you listen to Ear hustle, you know that the yards are segregated and there's not a lot of interaction with races.

[Nigel Poor]

It's very clear when you walk down here. From my perspective when I come in here, what I notice is like the black area is around the basketball, the table around the basketball court, and then over by the gym equipment is the Hispanic area.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yep.

[Nigel Poor]

Then there's like a tennis court area where the white dudes hang out. And then actually behind the tennis court, there's also another Hispanic area that's more of the.

[Earlonne Woods]

They call them border brothers, but they are usually undocumented Mexicans or a lot of Mexican individuals that are not involved in the gang activities.

[Nigel Poor]

9:00Am can you describe the yard right now?

[Tony Tafoya]

So the yard is kind of active right now. The runners are starting to run, but it's the slow runners. This morning we got Redbeard wrapping up his hose from spraying down the baseball field. You got the Spanish speaking church over in the corner of the yard and they're singing and clapping.

[Bruce]

You.

[Earlonne Woods]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Nigel Poor]

So it's 10 o'. Clock. What's going on in the yard now?

[Tony Tafoya]

All right, so the nerd herd is at it.

[Nigel Poor]

The sun's out now.

[Tony Tafoya]

The sun is out. The clouds have cleared out. There's no more gloom. The white guys are lifting tables to work out. It's nice. Nice. How many was that when he count? That's right.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, is that how he keeps track of his.

[Tony Tafoya]

Yeah, the rocks. So we use rocks to count our workouts a lot because it's what we got.

[Nigel Poor]

So we're walking down the yard and there's. There's a curb here with a little rug over it. And on the rug are a myriad of teddy bears. One, two, three, four teddy bears. There's five teddy bears. They're pink and white. I mean, what can you say? They're adorable. They're adorable.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Thank you.

[Nigel Poor]

Who makes them?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I make them.

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne. This guy is completely new to me. I've never seen him before. I would love to call him the teddy bear dude.

[Earlonne Woods]

Why you don't call him that dude?

[Nigel Poor]

Because he doesn't look like a teddy Bear. You know what I mean? Like, he's super wiry.

[Earlonne Woods]

What is super wiry?

[Nigel Poor]

Little, like, very low body fat content.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, okay.

[Nigel Poor]

I guess. Slicked back hair. He, you know, like, monogrammed glasses. He'd be very comfortable in the corner of a dark bar that has a lot of red interior. I think he'd fit right in there. But he's out here with, like, all these adorable teddy bears that he makes.

[Earlonne Woods]

Different colors, too.

[Nigel Poor]

Yep.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

He really get into it.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

You know, I've been locked up for a long time and that's. And it helps me with my inhibition and my. I use it as therapeutic.

[Nigel Poor]

What are they made out of?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

They're made out of sock with a Kool Aid. I dye the material and there's stuff with a sweatpant or anything. That's what I use as excess. They're just stuffed with extra material.

[Nigel Poor]

Can I pick one up?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Go ahead.

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne, you know me well enough to know I'm not a teddy bear kind of person.

[Bruce]

Right?

[Earlonne Woods]

But I never took that in consideration.

[Nigel Poor]

Well, I'm here to tell you I'm not, but I was positively giddy about these teddy bears. We talked with one guy who had already given three of these to his wife and he was coming back for another one.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Right.

[Earlonne Woods]

Well, you know, cats do perfect their craft, you know, because you're sitting there all day and you're just working on this one thing.

[Nigel Poor]

Have you ever heard them say it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert at something? I bet that guy has put 10,000 hours into those things.

[Earlonne Woods]

He had to. He had to.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I've been making them since 2017. So obviously for six, seven years I've been making them, and I make four per day.

[Nigel Poor]

So you've made hundreds and hundreds, Maybe thousands.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yes. I probably could say I already reached almost a thousand bears.

[Nigel Poor]

It's 11am what's happening on the yard?

[Tony Tafoya]

It looks like it's picked back up a little more than it was at the 10 o' clock check in. They're playing soccer now. The tennis is still going. The nerd game is still going. Or, my bad, the D and D game is still going.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Going.

[Tony Tafoya]

The domino. The same domino match from earlier. Still going. There's more people playing handball.

[Steve Brooks]

How you doing, man?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Good morning, sir. How are you?

[Steve Brooks]

All right, you got next on the quarter.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

What? Yes, sir. I'm what you call tally. I'm next in line and I'm keeping score. And I'm watching the lines to make sure the balls in or out.

[Steve Brooks]

Paolo, how often are you out? Here playing handball.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I'm not here every day. It keeps you social when you can communicate on the handball court.

[Steve Brooks]

What was that? Was that out?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

That was out. That. That. That ball was out because it went over the fence. It becomes like a daily vitamin. You just have to have it. You have to come out here and just let it all out. Whatever's going on, whatever you got to sort through, you come out here and you focus on that handball.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

What are you going to be working through today?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I have a lot of stress. I just lost my mother a little over a month ago, and now my father, he went back to Samoa, and I may not ever get to see him again, so I'm a little worried about that. My mother was cremated, so he took. Took her ashes with him. They were together 59 years, 11 months, and it was him and my mother staying that when they retired, they would go to Samoa. So as he finishes his life, he'll have his ashes and her ashes cast out into the oceans, which to me is a happy ending. Everybody, my family, they want us to. To come home. I want to go home one day. One day I'm going to go home. I'm going to go back to Samoa, and that's where it all started for me, and that's. That's where it's going to end, hopefully. All right, here we go.

[Earlonne Woods]

So we're in the other section. Not just the other section, but the others section.

[Nigel Poor]

And can we just say, the others in prison are, like, usually Pacific Islanders.

[Earlonne Woods]

Pacific Islanders, Asians. And of course, you know, when it comes to Samoans, they always big. Yeah, they, you know, but kind of.

[Nigel Poor]

In a pretty boy type way. You know what I mean?

[Earlonne Woods]

Pretty boys. Nice, nice tattoos. Tasteful, tasteful tattoos. But more into their culture.

[Nigel Poor]

Yes.

[Earlonne Woods]

And they just so happen to all look like strippers.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm glad you said that. And not me. Thank you.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Hey, how did you get into this?

[Tony Tafoya]

I mean, did you do this on the streets?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I did. I grew up in dancing ever since.

[Tony Tafoya]

I was, like, in, like, the first or second grade. I grew up dancing Maori, Tahitian, Samoan, all Polynesian cultures, all the way up till I was a freshman. And then that's when I, like, became too cool to dance my own culture and started doing things that weren't, I guess, didn't align with moral, things with social.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

No, I mean, you know what I mean.

[Tony Tafoya]

You know what I mean.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Did you do anything else with your.

[Tony Tafoya]

Your dancing?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I did.

[Tony Tafoya]

Later on down the line, I started stripping.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

So.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm just curious. Did you Have a specific stripper move that got you the money when they just.

[Tony Tafoya]

Just got the money?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yeah, it's.

[Tony Tafoya]

Usually it involves a chair and a flip, so.

[Earlonne Woods]

Chair and a flip?

[Tony Tafoya]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

You flipping on the chair.

[Tony Tafoya]

I'm flipping backwards while they're on the chair. And then it would end up to where it was like a 69 position. And then you flip them over. What's your legs contact?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Very acrobatic.

[Tony Tafoya]

Well, thank you, guys.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Next time, Nigel would like to see you do this backflip thing that you were talking about.

[Nigel Poor]

Don't ask for that much. It could just be a simpler move.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

We still can't give. Although I have my shirt off, I.

[Tony Tafoya]

Don'T think it'd be proper place to demonstrate some stripping moves either.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, it is noon, 12 o'.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Clock.

[Nigel Poor]

It's hot too.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's hot, man.

[Nigel Poor]

There's no shade out here at all.

[Earlonne Woods]

But it got a little wind though.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. I'm getting sunburned. I know it. I know it.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Oh, he trying to skunk me.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

I ain't gonna try to skunk you like that. I ain't gonna try to skunk you like that, Caroline.

[Nigel Poor]

No surprise, a few tables away, those domino guys are still at it. And I think at this point, Mr. White has taken his shirt off.

[Earlonne Woods]

Very girthy, huh?

[Nigel Poor]

He's not going to be joining those dancers.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

You won't be stinking in a minute. Come on, come on. 62.

[Earlonne Woods]

The Nerd Herd and the D and D guys, they still at it. They do not stop, stop. This is an all day everyday game. It never stops.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I am a very happy man right now.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know, it's that time right now where you have shift changing. You got dudes getting off work. You're gonna start seeing everybody going in to prepare for the next part of their day. And then you just have guys that, you know, about to take a break. So I think it's about time we take a little break.

[Nigel Poor]

That sounds like a good plan to me. Let's get out of the sun for.

[Earlonne Woods]

A little bit and do it.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

All right.

[Bruce]

That is so fun to hear.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

I know, right? I'm glad. I was just appreciating that. We let the song run long at the end there. We didn't try to splice it tighter.

[Bruce]

Yep. I know it's always tempting in producing to make things shorter and shorter and shorter, but it's so nice the way it breathes.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah, well, I was. Whenever I listen, I feel like a common experience. For me, listening back to episodes is wishing there was more Pauses. The pauses were a bit longer a lot. Some of those transitions still felt like. I don't know if they were rushed, but they felt like a little bit like they're all the same size.

[Bruce]

Oh, interesting. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. I mean, there were so many tape to tape transitions in this story.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I know.

[Bruce]

Which for listeners, that's like when you're hearing the nerd heard and then it fades out and fades into the domino guys or whatever. But Nigel and Erlund don't come in and say anything. It's like this tape to tape transition.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

We had so much fun with that. I had so much fun.

[Bruce]

I feel like that's like every audio producer would do tape to tape transitions only.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

That's what we do in our spare time.

[Bruce]

Exactly.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

What else did you hear?

[Bruce]

Yeah, I mean, gosh, the first thing. It's so fun to hear the inside team and there's.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

I don't know if this is obvious, but I hear like a newness and like a bit of a giddiness.

[Bruce]

Completely. And it's so fun. It's actually great to be listening to it now after this last season when the guys were on mic so much and this was the beginning of all that and they've grown so much and are like fully fledged audio producers now.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

I know, it's pretty remarkable. That makes me think. I think we actually recorded this. I think it was July 10th of 2023. So it was almost exactly two years ago.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Wow.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah. And then almost exactly one year ago, we started talking about launching your program at ciw.

[Bruce]

That's great.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

So there's something about like Early July and Ear Hustle history.

[Bruce]

I love that.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah.

[Bruce]

Yeah. What stuck out to you?

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Oh, so much. I mean, one thing I just sort of like fun behind the scenes thing that I think actually contributes a bit to this sort of feeling of tape to tape movement. Even though it's not technically tape to tape. Is that. I can't remember whose idea it was. Maybe Amy's. So normally we'll go to a place, record interviews, edit, edit, edit, script, script, script. And then Earl and Nigel will go into a studio and record the narration. So our episodes are like bits of tape or bits of scene, tape. You know, bits of interview. And then we go to Earl, Anne and Nigel in the studio and they say something for this narration. We did the same thing, but we recorded it on the San Quentin yard.

[Bruce]

Okay. I've always wondered.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah.

[Bruce]

Amazing. It's such a good choice, right? Cause it keeps you in the place.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Totally. Yeah. So often in this kind of Narrative audio, you'll be sort of pretending like you're there.

[Bruce]

Right.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

But actually when they're, like, so over there, they actually are looking at the place they're pointing to.

[Bruce]

Oh, my gosh. That's so satisfying to know.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

And it was also a very funny scene because to do that, we have that, like, kind of janky table with two microphone stands clipped to it in the media lab. We just rolled that whole little setup out onto the yard, and they were sitting, I think, both times we set up by that education building. So it's like right by the outfield, the baseball outfield.

[Bruce]

You can see everything.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah. And it was. I mean, it took a long time because everybody's stopping by to talk or, like, what's going on here?

[Bruce]

Oh, my gosh. And it is so visual. I said before, like, the things that make it so visual are the ambi. Right. Which is like the. You know, you record the sound of everything happening around you from, like, a wide shot of the yard to, like, the close ups of the dominoes kicking or whatever.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah.

[Bruce]

And it helps the listeners see it. And I had never been to San Quentin when I heard this episode. Right, right.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah.

[Bruce]

But I. The first time I went a year ago, I was like, you know what? This is kind of what I imagined.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

That's funny. I wanted to ask you that.

[Bruce]

Then the other way that we are able to see everything unfolding is like the very. I think the opening line of the story is Nigel San, her microphone. Like, it's six o', clock, and this is what I see. And there are other moments where I think she asks Tony to Trinidad, like, can you describe what's happening right now? These are great techniques. We talk about it as, like, using your microphone as a notebook. And it both will help you remember what happened, but also it helps listeners visualize it. And it's a really simple but really effective tool to just sort of see. Say what you're seeing.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah. And with this one in particular, I knew we went in. I mean, a lot of it was like going in with no plan because we just, like. The whole idea is like, go to a place and see what happens, you know? But one thing we did plan in advance was like, we should have a check in every hour on the hour.

[Bruce]

Those timestamps are great.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah, exactly. So you can. I mean, it just helps. Cause there's, like, no typical arc. There's not a beginning, middle, and end. I mean, I guess there's the beginning of the day and the end of the day, but it doesn't have a traditional. Like, the story starts here and it has a climax and all. But to keep things moving forward, those check ins, we sort of had a fun. It's like, okay, it's 10 o'. Clock. Let's check in. Like we found, you know, because we'd actually had two recorders going, so there were two different teams wandering around the yard. But I feel like we always tried to be like, okay, let's gather together. It's 11 o'.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Clock.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

What do you see? Yeah.

[Bruce]

It reminds me of the episode we did about Dom's hearing this season where it was. We did sort of timestamps, but they were dates. And it's really helpful in a story that is the narrative arc is just the passage of time. Right. Chronology. Which actually, weirdly, it imbues a story with its own tension because it's like the question throughout is, like, what's gonna happen next?

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Exactly. And with that one, you knew, like, you're counting down to a time when, like, the drama is really gonna come to a head. You're gonna find out what happens at his sentencing.

[Bruce]

Yeah.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

One other thing. I was gonna mention a small thing, but there's a reoccurring cue that we have in there that basically is like. It's basically like the time passing cue. I think it comes exactly. Yeah. When we want to kind of move between scenes or indicate that time passing without saying time is passing. I think it also occurs often around the time stamps, like it's 10 o'. Clock. I think that was one of the first things that Siddiq did for us. Like, I think this must have been early days of Siddiq doing stuff for us. And I think early on we were probably like, we need something. A reoccurring sort of theme of time passing.

[Bruce]

It's really effective.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

And I'm pretty sure that was a Darrell Siddiq Davis original. And now you hear his sound design more and more in the episode, through episodes.

[Bruce]

Right. Oh, that's so cool.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

You talked about it being a teaching tool and this is kind of related. But I was thinking, and I love the idea of trying to replicate this at ciw, particularly in the framework of the class, because having to just go somewhere with no preconceived notion about why anything is interesting and walk up to strangers and be like, oh, my gosh, tell me something interesting. And it just ends up to be such a fishing expedition and such a good exercise. And first of all, just walking out to strangers.

[Bruce]

It's scary, though.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

It's like. But also just like, then sort of like, well, yeah, so just sort of, like, going different places, going this way, going that way, until something kind of sparks your imagination and you kind of go in.

[Bruce]

Right. And it tells you that, like, if you. I always tell students this. Like, students are nervous. They want to go in, get the story, get out. Right. But it's like, just stick around longer than you intended to and follow the action. Basically, if you see something happening and, like, gosh, who was it? Someone. There was someone who was going home. Right?

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bruce]

Like, what a great example of, like, if you just walk up to someone and ask, what's happening? You see, there are these, like, human intense dramas unfolding all around us all the time.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Although I have to admit that I think we knew the day before that that was gonna happen, because I guess there's, like, a typical time when people are gonna get out, get on the van at a particular place on the yard.

[Bruce]

Yep.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

And so I think we'd sort of flagged before that we should figure out. And I think maybe one of the inside guys said, yeah, there is somebody getting out. So I think we knew to, like, go check in sometime in the morning.

[Bruce]

I can pretend.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah. Yeah. Although that was what I thought of when I heard that was like, we were trying. We did some scheming planning in advance to figure out, like, oh, where might there be drama? And let's be sure to be there at that time. But then that guy. I mean, he was in this, like, pretty dramatic moment, but he wasn't, like, super expressive about it. So that was an instance of, like, oh, it didn't actually have the payoff that we thought it would.

[Bruce]

Right.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

But in this kind of episode where you're just doing sort of, like, little bits. I don't even know what the name of it is. Like a collage or.

[Bruce]

Yeah, yeah. Like a montage. A waterfall. Monouage, though.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah.

[Bruce]

It's like a quilt.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that is reminding me of maybe the final thing I'll say that I. Why this episode has always been a favorite of mine is that I spent a lot of time in San Quentin at this point.

[Bruce]

Yeah.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

And the yard has come to be a place that feels, like, welcoming to me, which is kind of like a weird thing to say. And also, I should obviously acknowledge that it is also not, you know, like, a lot of horrible things are happening in there. But I often, like, walk down there and I'm happy and, like, run into people that it's nice to catch up with. So I was really glad that, like, this episode was a way that we could sort of share that. All right, well, let's go to the aforementioned break.

[Bruce]

Let's do it.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

When we come back, we'll listen to the BSEG and then we'll wrap it up after that.

[Bruce]

All right.

[Earlonne Woods]

Calling all your hustlers, we've got an announcement.

[Nigel Poor]

We are hitting the road again.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's right. Back in 2023, we had our first live tour on the east and west coast and we had so much fun. We're like, we gotta do this again.

[Nigel Poor]

So that's what's happening. Only this time it's really like an old fashioned road show, kind of like a 70s style rock band. We are renting vans and we are packing so many outfits. Earlonne.

[Earlonne Woods]

And hitting the road. We'll start out in Nashville on August 4th and we will drive across the south and Midwest, hitting a bunch of cities, hopefully yours.

[Nigel Poor]

Grand finale in a city I have always wanted to visit, Austin, Texas.

[Earlonne Woods]

And this time out, we've got an entirely new show. Stories from inside and outside prison reimagined by a cool animator and music from some of our favorite artists you've met on the show.

[Nigel Poor]

And Earlonne, you know, I am already picking out my outfits.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yep.

[Nigel Poor]

And between you and me, we are going to need our own van. Earlonne. We are going to travel Liberace style. And you know, I am dying to see what our listeners are going to be wearing.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm wearing prison blues.

[Nigel Poor]

What you telling me you are not. You are not.

[Earlonne Woods]

So dress to impress.

[Nigel Poor]

For ticket info and all the details go to earhustlesq.com see you on the road.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Foreigners.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you want even more Ear Hustle.

[Earlonne Woods]

And even fewer ads? Like zero, zilch, nothing, nada.

[Nigel Poor]

If so, subscribe to Ear Hustle Plus.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ear Hustle plus subscribers get access to ad free episodes and bonus episodes.

[Nigel Poor]

Our Ear Hustle plus episodes are really fun. Subscribers can find out what's happening with with people they've heard on previous episodes and they can also send in questions for us to answer.

[Earlonne Woods]

And me and Nigel get to sit here and chop it up with our producer Bruce and just talk about whatever.

[Nigel Poor]

If you want to hear more of that, subscribe to ear hustle [e-mail] plus or directly in Apple Podcasts.

[Earlonne Woods]

And thanks for supporting the show. We appreciate y'.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

All.

[Earlonne Woods]

And send in some provocative questions.

[Nigel Poor]

Spicy questions. What class were you just in?

[Tony Tafoya]

This is Tony the Trinidad. All right, it's our one o' clock yard.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Check in.

[Tony Tafoya]

The yard has thinned out since 11 and 12 o'.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Clock.

[Tony Tafoya]

The soccer game is over, but tennis players are still tennising. People are kind of milling about for the most part. There's some people doing laps, not that many. There's a new guy at the punching bag.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I'm calling combinations, I'm calling numbers.

[Earlonne Woods]

Two.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Two punches. Four is four punches. Six, you know, so I just try to mix it up, mix it up with the guys, you know what I'm saying? We do this Monday through Friday. I'm out here Monday through Friday. Whoever you know, come or want to join or want to, you know, learn. I'm. I'm out here, you know, so got a skill now I want to give it to somebody.

[Nigel Poor]

So right near that guy who was boxing, there was this table with, I don't know, like four dudes sitting down that I'd never seen before. And I really wanted to talk to them. And I kind of started to walk over there with my recorder and I could just see on their face, they were like, leave us alone. And Earlonne. Point taken.

[Earlonne Woods]

Everybody's gonna be different, you know, you're gonna have the older population that don't care for media, don't care to get on the mic, don't care to, you know, entertain you in any way.

[Nigel Poor]

And then definitely, you know, Tony and I were trying to talk to some of the guys working out, and he went over there in Spanish and it was very clear.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's like, yeah, not definitely. And it might not even be you. It might not even be the microphones, you know, it could be Tony. You never know. Dudes sometimes are segregated and they are divided.

[Nigel Poor]

And so it's really easy to imagine for a new person it's going to take a while to figure out all of these rules. And we actually just ran into a guy who got here. I think it was just like a few days ago. And I think he was waiting for some of his stuff to arrive.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, yeah? Yeah. You waiting for your property to get here?

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Tony Tafoya]

So how are you guys doing?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Good.

[Nigel Poor]

So is this your first time in prison?

[Tony Tafoya]

Nah, this is like my eighth. Ninth time.

[Bruce]

Eighth or ninth time?

[Tony Tafoya]

Yeah. Is it your first time in San Quentin? Yeah, my first time in San Quentin. It's lovely though.

[Earlonne Woods]

Is it recidivist or you violating or what?

[Tony Tafoya]

Institutional. I feel more comfortable in here than on the streets, you know, I'm used to the streets, so I stay committing crimes, you know, like high speed chases, stuff like that. And I don't know, I just feel more comfortable in prison than out of prison. Because I've always done time since. Since I was a kid. You know, I started off in juvenile hall, then the Ranches County Jail, and now prison. And I just can't stop, you know?

[Nigel Poor]

Are you saying you'd rather be here?

[Tony Tafoya]

Well, I'm just used to it, I guess. What do you think it would take for you to not feel like that? I don't know. Some kind of coping skills. Something that would make me understand that outside is better and something in here is a lot worse.

[Nigel Poor]

Wait, so you don't feel sad when you come back?

[Tony Tafoya]

I mean, I do, because I leave my family and everyone behind. But at the same time, I'm more comfortable in here. I don't really know what to do when I get out.

[Earlonne Woods]

Is it drugs? Is it no job? Is it? What do you think?

[Tony Tafoya]

I don't know. It just. I would say just. I don't know.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

I always.

[Tony Tafoya]

I always been lonely, so I just stick to what I do and just don't care anymore, you know?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Hey, y'.

[Tony Tafoya]

All, this is Dante D. Jones.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I'm here on the yard right now, and it is really, really hot.

[Earlonne Woods]

But there are people on the yard.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

A lot of people catching sun rays.

[Earlonne Woods]

People are playing basketball as usual.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Rebound, rebound. Chin up.

[Tony Tafoya]

Some guys are running around and the.

[Earlonne Woods]

Birdman is on the yard playing with his birds. Every prison is going to have a.

[Nigel Poor]

Birdman, and San Quentin's no different.

[Earlonne Woods]

No. No matter where you at in any prison in probably the United States or the world, you're gonna have somebody that's.

[Nigel Poor]

The pigeon man, and this guy's definitely the pigeon man. He doesn't have, like, one or two pigeons around him. Can we say there's a plethora of pigeons on this tour?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yeah, well, you know, I've just always been really inclined towards animals in general, and they just kind of vibe with me, you know? But we hang out all day.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

I have.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I sit out here and read books with them.

[Nigel Poor]

But they seem to like you. What do you think they like about you?

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

You know, we're sentient beings, and we can recognize that sentience in each other. I think, to me, it's kind of being, like, touched by the divine. It's having that come right up to me and just want to be a part of my life. When you look into the eyes of an intelligent being, there is no question the intelligence that is looking back at you. So to me, it's just an apparent truth that's just waiting to be recognized.

[Nigel Poor]

And when you look into the eyes of a pigeon, you see a Fellow intelligent being.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Nigel Poor]

It's getting on in a day, right? I mean, the sun is shifting a little bit, there's a little bit of a breeze and the yard's quieting down.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. And there's this one part of the yard kind of to the side where they got some nice flowers growing.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, it's like a little patch of garden.

[Earlonne Woods]

And that's where we found our old pal who's been on a few shows before.

[Nigel Poor]

Yes, he has.

[Earlonne Woods]

Old Reggie.

[Tony Tafoya]

My name is Reginald Thorpe. I'm here at San Quentin and I'm standing here looking at the area where I first seen a hummingbird during my incarceration. I've been incarcerated for over 25 years. This happened probably like about three years ago. I was in the education area and I was out there drinking some water, eating my lunch, and I just realized that I was looking at a hummingbird and it was visiting each plant individually. And I was like, wow, look at this. I was trying to remember the last time I had seen a hummingbird in nature. Just, I never seen it. And I was just in shock. I was really in awe. It was astounding. It impressed me.

[Nigel Poor]

Why do you think hummingbirds are so magical?

[Tony Tafoya]

They're the only creatures I know that could move in a 90 degree angle in mid flight. Like in a sharp angle from left to right, straight and left to right. I don't know no other creature that.

[Nigel Poor]

Could move like that and hover the way they hover.

[Tony Tafoya]

Yeah, they hover, but without that hovering, they won't be able to cut them sharp 90 degree angles the way they do. If you ever look, they move up and down and side to side, like robotically. No other creature can move like that.

[Nigel Poor]

And where are we right now? Like describe the scene.

[Tony Tafoya]

We are currently on San Quentin's prison yard. It's a nice, clear, beautiful, sunny day. It's don't look depressing for a change.

[Nigel Poor]

What are you wearing today?

[Tony Tafoya]

I am wearing a tank top with quite a few holes in it so I could catch some of the breeze. I got some holes in my shorts and some tennis shoes, cuz.

[Nigel Poor]

Are you working out now?

[Tony Tafoya]

Yeah, I'm just working out.

[Nigel Poor]

Well, it's always good to see you.

[Tony Tafoya]

I wish I could have described this ripped up shirt with this shirt, regardless.

[Nigel Poor]

Of how to describe it. So he's wearing a good gray tank top. Calling. It, calling it a tank top is generous because it is, it's diaphanous. So it's probably, I don't know how old. It's got to be. At least 10 years old.

[Tony Tafoya]

You know what I like about this shirt? Most women still say it's sexy, homie.

[Nigel Poor]

And he just ran away. He's running away. He's running away.

[Tony Tafoya]

Oh, it's three o'.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Clock.

[Tony Tafoya]

You want to do the check in?

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, Check in, three o'.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Clock.

[Nigel Poor]

How are you feeling, Tony?

[Tony Tafoya]

Thirsty.

[Nigel Poor]

Me too. I don't think we've had enough water.

[Bruce]

It's.

[Nigel Poor]

The day started out really quiet, then it got really hectic and it's getting quiet again and it's freaking hot. I'm kind of tapped out. How are you feeling?

[Tony Tafoya]

I'm feeling good.

[Nigel Poor]

You are?

[Tony Tafoya]

Yeah. Then again, I had lunch.

[Nigel Poor]

I had lunch too. Oh, I'm gonna have a sip of water.

[Tony Tafoya]

Oh, yeah, you did have lunch.

[Earlonne Woods]

Usually around 3 o'.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Clock.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know, you have a lot of people disappearing. Most people are going into the building so they can get ready for dinner. But then you still have what you call, like, what do they call them? Yard soldiers that don't never leave the yard. Yard bums.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yard bums.

[Earlonne Woods]

So then you have yard bums, which I. I was pretty much sometime a yard bum, you know, and there's a.

[Nigel Poor]

Lot of people walking laps, just walking.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's all you do. You just bend corners. You just stay on the yard pretty much all day.

[Nigel Poor]

So what I notice is that guy. The. Basically the laps take up the whole yard. So you're walking around the full yard and you see guys walking singly or with a couple other people talking. So, Tony, I want to ask you about this superstition I've heard about which direction to walk in.

[Tony Tafoya]

So supposedly, yeah, if you go against the clock and walk back, supposedly turn back time. But that. I think that's a really silly notion.

[Nigel Poor]

But what does it mean? Does it mean that, like, it's. That your time goes faster here?

[Tony Tafoya]

So for me, that would be walking clockwise.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right.

[Bruce]

Speed up the clock.

[Tony Tafoya]

Right. But I think if you walk backwards and turn back the clock, I don't know how that speeds up time.

[Nigel Poor]

I feel like they didn't really think this out.

[Tony Tafoya]

We're not here for having the best thinking processes, to be honest with you. But what I do know about labs, though, it is therapeutic. I would say most of the time, it's like a walking, walking meditation for most people.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. And that's definitely what's going on with this guy.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Travis, how you doing, brother?

[Tony Tafoya]

Would you mind talking to us? We're gonna continue walking with you around the yard. This is Nigel, Amy from Ear Hustle.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Nice to meet You.

[Nigel Poor]

Nice to meet you.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

And I know him from church. We both go.

[Tony Tafoya]

We sing in the Catholic choir together. Are you gonna join me? Tom?

[Earlonne Woods]

Let's go.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Go ahead, I'll help you out.

[Tony Tafoya]

Wait in the water. Wait in the water, children, now Wait in the water. God's gonna trouble the water. Come to the river Let the living waters rise. This is Travis. You know, a lot of times you're just gonna see him walking a track and you're gonna see him walking alone. He's kind of in his own head, and that's just kind of what he does. No one really bothers him. He don't bother nobody, that's for sure. But I would venture from knowing him that most of the time when he's walking the track, he's thinking about his son. So I've been writing him poems and illustrating them from for a long time. One of them was about, you know, a kid and his reaction to seeing facial hair. It's called not a wizard. And it goes. I saw a man with a very long beard, and I asked my mom if he was a wizard. She said that he probably just doesn't shave, but that we might see a wizard later on in the day. For me, walking is primarily a walking meditation. I spent a pretty significant time the other day looking at that tree. I mean, it's a beautiful tree.

[Nigel Poor]

As you can see, the tree he's talking about is. It's not actually inside the prison wall. It's on the other side of the wall.

[Tony Tafoya]

It stands alone. It stands alone. And if it catches the light at the right time of day, each individual leave kind of catches the light. And it's like when you're looking at the ocean and it's sparkling, it's doing the same thing.

[Nigel Poor]

You know what? I'm glad you brought up ocean, because when I look at the way it moves, it undulates the way water does. And so I think that's what makes it feel so alive.

[Tony Tafoya]

Exactly. It's almost a. Like a breathing entity. And just following those thoughts into.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Just.

[Tony Tafoya]

A space of letting go of all of my tendency to examine the past and, you know, project myself up out into a future that doesn't involve prison and just sit in the presence of the wonder of such a thing.

[Nigel Poor]

Stand here, the three of us, and stare at it for about 20 seconds.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Roger, Dennis Rogers.

[Tony Tafoya]

All right. All right, we'll see you guys.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

All right, brother.

[Earlonne Woods]

Have a good day. Hicks, 45.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Zinn, Coles, 4, 0. From.

[Earlonne Woods]

So count happens in a 24 hour period, maybe five, six times. Because they want to make sure that one, everybody is alive and two, that nobody is missing.

[Nigel Poor]

And I think sometimes guys also are kind of scrambling to get to count, right? Because it's a big deal if you miss it.

[Earlonne Woods]

Well, hell yeah, it's a big deal if you miss it. Shit, you can't miss that count.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Honestly, Turner, right now this count is.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Happening at every single prison in the entire state.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

I think the northern prisons are at 4 o', clock, the Southern at 4:30. And they try to make sure that.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Every single person is accounted for with inside the prison.

[Earlonne Woods]

Gomez.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

They will count every single person in the prison and they have to call that number into Sacramento and Sacramento has.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

To say, we confirm that that's how.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Many are supposed to be there. Higgins, 49, A.C. davis, the foyer, everybody. Good job, guys. Thank you. You guys have a pleasant evening, huh?

[Tony Tafoya]

All right, thank you.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

All right, later.

[Tony Tafoya]

We have a horrible dinner today, man. So the vibe at the end of the day is kind of like a wind down time. Everybody had they little fun throughout the day. Now it's time to just chillax and kick back. You know, some people come out and just enjoy the breeze because the breeze usually come like around 4ish and you know, that's count time. So after about the end of the night, you know, it's kind of like breezy out here.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Tony. Hi, rj. What's going on? I'm just cleaning it up for the night. Make sure all the trash is done, make sure all this junk's done, make sure nobody didn't poo poo on the floor or piss on the floor over side of here somewhere.

[Tony Tafoya]

I get this done and try to.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Make it back in just before the door is locked.

[Nigel Poor]

How was your day today, Steve Brooks?

[Steve Brooks]

My day was very busy. Running around chasing the ear hustle team all day, all over the yard. We got the whole team out here for the first time, you know, so that's nice. You know, I think this our first gig, so I think it was successful.

[Tony Tafoya]

So.

[Steve Brooks]

The sun is about to set. You can tell everybody's starting to calm down, get ready to shower and go to bed and do it all over again tomorrow. So yeah, it's very nice day.

[Nigel Poor]

Well, Earlonne, the day's pretty much winding down and there's only a few groups.

[Earlonne Woods]

Out here now and even a nerd herd is packing it in for the day.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Today was more of a morale booster.

[Tony Tafoya]

It was less combat, more shopping, kind.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Of building our characters up, feeling better about ourselves, you know, eating and drinking, spending some time communicating and Everything. It's a nice reaction. Reprieve from the reality of where we are. Wasted days and wasted night belong to.

[Earlonne Woods]

Me your heart belong till someone else.

[Tony Tafoya]

All right, this is deep.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Wrapping it up.

[Tony Tafoya]

This is the end of the night. I'm about to go in and get my shower. Give me a few phone calls before 9 o'.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Clock.

[Tony Tafoya]

This is me checking out. This is Tony Trinidad saying buenos nachos. I'm about to go call my mom.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

This is Thumb Win signing off for the day.

[Tony Tafoya]

I'm gonna go wash my dirty body.

[Steve Brooks]

This is Steve Brooks. After 12 hours on the yard, I'm going in, giving me a shower for show and I'm going to bed. Good night.

[Tony Tafoya]

This is Tony Tafoya and I am.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Going to go inside, take a shower and get ready to watch the Bachelorette.

[Earlonne Woods]

This is Dante D. Jones. Hasta luego, Hasta mayana, and all that other good stuff. This is Earlonne and I gotta get up out of here and go let that top down and go across that bridge and smell the seaweed that you don't get to smell in here.

[Nigel Poor]

And this is Nigel. And yep, I'm out of here after a really long day in the yard and I'm gonna head home.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, you remember the day that you ran away and left me I was a lonely Pray for you only.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

My love. Yeah. It is now your recall. H unit, west block, north blocks outlook and anywhere else you might stay here. It is time to go home.

[Bruce]

Wow.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Okay.

[Bruce]

So fun to hear that.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

I was wondering if it. I was wondering if, like, you're feeling the same thing you normally do at the end of a good episode.

[Bruce]

Yes. Oh, my gosh, that's so funny. It's not what I thought you were gonna say. What I thought you were gonna ask was, is this how it feels to leave San Quentin?

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Oh, yeah.

[Bruce]

Which is totally how it feels to leave St. Quentin, which is like. It is weird. They stay, you know, you're colleagues, you're working on something together and it feels normal. And then they stay and you go home.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Totally. Wow, I'd forgotten about that. Yeah, that used to strike me a lot. And I don't register that as much anymore.

[Bruce]

Yeah, it really. It still is. It still gets me and it is. There was like a melancholy to the end of this episode that I feel like captures that.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Although, you know, when it does still strike me more often is like once I'm out, like going across the bridge, that sort of thing.

[Bruce]

Yes. When you emerge onto, like, the gorgeous day. Yeah, yeah, yep, totally. But yeah, Do I feel the same way that I do after listening to other episodes?

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah. For some reason this time, I was just thinking about, like, or trying to register the ways in which this just is a different kind of episode and has different structure and impact, and I was trying to think how I was feeling at the end of that.

[Bruce]

Yeah, it is really different. I mean, I think it's almost. It's, like, ethereal in a way. It is a different. Yeah. It's not the same feeling of, like, listening to a person go through an emotional journey. Right.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah.

[Bruce]

Rather like being transported to another place in time does leave you with a different feeling.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah. And it is. I mean, it's sort of like, true to life that, like, days just kind of end. And then there's another one tomorrow, you know?

[Bruce]

Oh, my gosh. Who says that? And we'll do it all again tomorrow.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

I'd forgotten that.

[Bruce]

It's perfect.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

I remember us trying in different ways to make the second segment, which was the afternoon, make the afternoon just feel different, you know, in some subtle ways.

[Bruce]

Totally.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Did it have that experience, like, that feeling to you?

[Bruce]

It really does. I mean, like I said, it feels more melancholy in a way. I think that just the. We talked about Ambie before, like, just that, like, the sound of the yard is really different. Like you were saying, it is quieter, it's slower.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

I think there were one or two instances of things people we talked to in the morning that actually felt more like afternoon people. Like, I think Travis, the guy who was walking the track, that might have been in the morning, but just that.

[Nigel Poor]

Totally.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

I might be wrong about this, but I think it was. But just sort of, like, the pace of that experience.

[Bruce]

Oh, it's sort of an afternoon experience.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Right.

[Bruce]

It's sort of, like, contemplative.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bruce]

So brilliant of Amy to have everyone stand there for 30 seconds.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Totally. Yeah.

[Bruce]

And that's another really, like. That's a very confident move to then have the listener stay in silence with you, too. It's really cool.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

I think there was conversation about shortening it, but I'm almost positive that is exactly the length.

[Bruce]

And it is a nice moment to really hear the yard, too. And the way, like, I think, like, a car horn intrudes, and then you get the. Like, the loudspeaker, and you realize how it's not quiet there really, ever.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Yeah.

[Bruce]

Another thing, I like the. I think it's early in the second half where Nejle and Arlon talk about the people who refuse to talk to you guys.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah.

[Bruce]

Cause it can Seem like you talk to everybody, right?

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Totally.

[Bruce]

But another way this is a great teaching tool is it's a good reminder that you gotta swing a couple swings and they're gonna be misses sometimes. And I wondered too, was there anyone you guys did talk to that didn't make it into the story that you missed?

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Oh, that I miss or that you don't miss? I mean, so many people we talked to didn't make it in, obviously, because we were recording on two recorders for 12 hours. So it's 24 hours of tape.

[Bruce]

It's a lot of tape to go through.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

It's a good question. No, I can't. I mean, I'm sure there was stuff that hurt me to cut. There always is, but I can't remember them. So maybe it was probably made the right call.

[Bruce]

Right. That's good. That's a good lesson too. Like, it. It can be so painful to cut things that you love and listeners might not know. Usually we don't have 48 hours or 24 hours of tape, but we have a lot of. We gather a lot of tape. A lot of stuff doesn't make it into the episodes. And it can be a real fight between the producer and the editor. But this is a good reminder that you don't actually remember the things you lose.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah, sometimes I do, but this one, not this one. One thing that was kind of missing. And I remember us talking about it in the edits. And I think that thing that you referenced, the people that wouldn't talk to us.

[Bruce]

Yeah.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Might have been one way of trying to hint at that. Basically. Like, we've listened to the first edit and it did feel sort of like summer camp. And we're like, yeah, this. I mean, as true as that is to our experience when we go in or, you know, the experience a person could have on the yard.

[Bruce]

Totally.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

There's a lot going on that we didn't talk about. A lot going on that we wouldn't see. There's the threat of stuff going on. There's probably stuff going on at other places in the prison. So I think there were a few places and maybe that was one of them. I remember us trying to think about, like, how do we sort of, like, register that we know this is not comprehensive.

[Bruce]

Right.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

You know, without being. While still being true to our experience. I mean. Cause I can't remember if we went into it, but, you know, like, one reason people wouldn't talk to us is because they're active gang members, you know, and they're not allowed to Talk to us. And another thing we didn't talk about, I remember it being in edits, was just we didn't talk about how the yard is segregated. I don't think that ever comes up.

[Bruce]

I mean, interesting. That is a really. That's, like, one of the first things you notice when you walk in the yard.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah, yeah. We mention Travis, the guy who is meditating on the tree, and sang with Tom.

[Bruce]

Oh, my gosh, they sound so good.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Totally coincidentally. Oh, that's right. You're a singer too. So you recognize that. So you're gonna have to sing that song at the end. We didn't realize this at the time. We interviewed him on the yard and he made it into the episode. But this was back when we were doing a collaboration with the William Janes association, which does art classes in most of the California prisons. And different of their artists would do illustrations for each of our episodes. And Travis did the illustration for this episode. So not only was he the guy meditating on the tree, but he did this amazing illustration which people should go to our website and look at. And people should also know that our friends, the Kitchen Sisters, who work at KQED with us and our fellow radiotopians make a beautiful radio show. All of their stuff is going to the Library of Congress.

[Bruce]

So cool.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

As part of that, they were asked to submit, like, 10 radio pieces that inspired them.

[Bruce]

Oh, no way.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

They asked us to suggest one, and we suggested 12 hours on the Yard. So this episode is in the Library of Congress, and we're in the process of getting the original illustration. Episode illustration. And that's going to be in the Library of Congress, too.

[Bruce]

Oh, that's so special. Oh, my gosh. Can you talk about why you chose this episode?

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah, yeah. We went back and forth. I mean, I told you it's one of my favorites. So I definitely, like, advocated for it. And I think, you know, what it was was that, like, yeah, San Quentin is sort of, like, central to what we do and despite how much we grow or, you know, like, go to other places, like, San Quentin is always the central place. And I think also what struck me particularly was it's really cool in this place that is meant to be sort of like the nation's archive to think about, like, oh, a moment in time in this place that has become, like, very important to us in different and complicated ways. Like, you know, 12 hours is now documented in the nation's history.

[Bruce]

Right.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

You know?

[Bruce]

Yeah, I love that. And I mean, it is. It's an oral history in a way.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah. There's something that felt fitting about this, even though it's a very. In most ways, it's an atypical episode for us.

[Bruce]

Yeah. I also felt like I heard the seeds of other episodes we've done since, like, the Comfortable inside from season 14.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

And I actually think, even though I didn't remember that he wasn't in here. But I think we actually talked to Sparkplug. I'm pretty sure we talked to him that day. Sparkplug, who was the first episode of this season. The bank Robber. Pretty sure we met him that day, but it just. Well, he didn't make the cut, but, yeah, then he ended up in his own episode.

[Bruce]

The last thing is the music is. So there are a couple of different moments, and it's so effective. And we talked about tape to tape transitions. Doing the same thing over and over again can get old Right in the story. So you're always looking for new ways to transition. And music does that beautifully too.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Yeah.

[Bruce]

And just, like, gives the listener a chance to breathe and sit with it. And also, they're so talented.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

All right, thank you so much, Kat. I'm so glad that you picked this one. It was fun to return to and fun to listen to it with you, because a lot has changed in two years.

[Bruce]

A lot has changed in two years. I know. Thank you, Bruce. This was so much more fun than I thought it was gonna be.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Wait, you didn't think it was gonna be fun?

[Bruce]

I was nervous.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Oh, really? Oh, gosh. It's supposed to be very low stress, but.

[Bruce]

Well, nothing is low stress for me.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

Unfortunately, I'm learning that.

[Bruce]

But, no, this was so much fun. It is, even in our jobs, like, rare to get to sit and just listen and do nothing else and then talk about it together. What a dream.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

It's interesting. I mean, it's a reminder. I said this episode all came about because we used to do that in San Quentin, and we've gotten less good at doing that. Yeah. Let's remember to, like, start listening to stuff in there just for edification and fun. Totally for edification. We can't have fun?

[Bruce]

No fun. Okay.

[Kat Schuchnecht]

All right. Thank you.

[Bruce]

All right. Thanks, Bruce.

[Steve Brooks]

My name is Steve Brooks, and right now I'm smelling some hot buttery popcorn. I'm about to go track down. Ear Hustle is produced by Nigel Poor, Earlonne Woods, Amy Standen, Bruce Wallace, and Rahsaan, New York. Thomas Shabnam Sigmund is our managing producer. Our producing team, Inside San Quentin, includes myself, Darrell Siddiq Davis, Tony Ditrinidad, and Tam Nguyen. Our inside managing producer is Tony Tafoya. Earlonne woods sound designs and engineers the show with help from Fernando Arruda, Rashid Zinneman and Darrell Siddiq Davis. Thanks to Acting Warden Oak Smith at San Quentin and Acting Warden Molly Hill and Lt. William Newborg at the California Institute for Women for their support of the show. Thanks also to this woman here.

[Bruce]

I am Lieutenant Giamare Berry, the Public Information Officer here at San Quentin State Prison and I approve this episode.

[Steve Brooks]

This episode was made possible by the Just Trust working to amplify the voices, vision and power of communities that are transformed, transforming the justice system. For more information about this episode, check out the show notes on our website earhustle sq.com you can also find out more about the show on Facebook, Twitter and instagram @Earhustle Sq.

[Nigel Poor]

We want to welcome back all of you listeners and thank you for following us into this next season.

[Earlonne Woods]

Season number two, this is a big season for us. I mean we're Gonna hit our 100th episode.

[Nigel Poor]

That's crazy.

[Earlonne Woods]

Hey Nigel.

[Nigel Poor]

Yes?

[Earlonne Woods]

Can you name all the episodes?

[Nigel Poor]

Hell no. We will have more news on that later in the season. Meanwhile, I want to say I'm really excited about our new crew inside San Quentin. It is growing. I mean there's like how many guys in there?

[Earlonne Woods]

We got seven cats up in there. You know, from a photographer to the line producers, the sound designers. So definitely we got a cool crew and it's promising.

[Nigel Poor]

I mean they've got a lot more to learn, but they did a great job on this first episode.

[Earlonne Woods]

By the time we get to our hundred, they should be good.

[Nigel Poor]

And also, you know what I'm excited about Earlonne?

[Earlonne Woods]

Tell me.

[Nigel Poor]

We're going to be going into some new prisons. Prisons we've never been in before.

[Earlonne Woods]

Maybe you've never been in them. And listeners, we've got a favor to ask of you. If you like the show, please go leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It really helps us get the word out.

[Nigel Poor]

And don't forget to sign up for our newsletter the Lowdown, where we've got photos and behind the scenes stuff from our episodes and news about what the team is up to. [e-mail] Newsletter.

[Earlonne Woods]

Music for this episode came from Darrell Siddiq Davis, Rashid Zinneman, Fernando Arruda and me, Earlonne Woods.

[Nigel Poor]

Big thanks also to everyone we talked to on the yard at San Quentin for this episode.

[Earlonne Woods]

Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia from prx, a network of independent, creator owned, listener supported podcasts.

[Nigel Poor]

Discover audio with vision at Radiotopia fm.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm Earl Line Wood.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm Nigel four.

[Earlonne Woods]

Thanks for listening. Okay, they got a squad going. It's a gang meeting. Gang meeting. Watch out.

[Nigel Poor]

Unbelievable.

[Officer Jay Azevedo]

Radiotopia.

[Nigel Poor]

From prx.