Revisiting "Getting a Date"

Summary

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Ear Hustle, Radiotopia

Revisiting "Getting a Date"

Release Date: June 24, 2026
Hosts: Earlonne Woods, Nigel Poor, Curtis Fox
Featured Voices: Steve Wilson, Danny Plunkett, Phil Melendez, Ron Self

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Overview

This episode of Ear Hustle revisits the season one classic “Getting a Date,” a story that dives deep into the realities, ambitions, and anxieties surrounding parole and freedom from behind bars. Originally released in October 2017, the episode re-airs with reflective commentary from hosts Earlonne Woods and Curtis Fox. The heart of the story is Steve Wilson’s notorious escape from Old Folsom prison, and its impact on his parole prospects. The episode also weaves in the personal experiences of other incarcerated men confronting the parole board, wrestling with accountability, hope, and the meaning of freedom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Revisiting a Classic: Why “Getting a Date” Matters

• Hosts Earlonne and Curtis explain the decision to revisit this episode, referring to it as a “true Ear Hustled episode” that captures universal aspirations within prison: "This was one of those stories that everybody dream of when they in prison…this was a guy that actually followed his dreams." (Earlonne Woods, 06:26)
• It’s not just about an escape story; it’s an exploration of parole, what it takes to earn it, and why the process is so emotionally intense for those inside.

2. Steve Wilson’s Story: Escape and Its Aftermath

• Background: Steve Wilson, incarcerated for murdering his father-in-law in 1979, reflects on 30 years of prison time, multiple parole denials, and a dramatic escape attempt.
• The Escape:
  • Wilson describes hiding inside a huge exhaust fan to get out of Old Folsom.
  • Vivid account of swallowing money during prison visits, hiding for weeks, and traveling across the U.S. before settling in Florida, then fleeing overseas.
  • Memorable quote: "The more I looked at this fan, the more I realized this was to be the way to go." (Steve Wilson, 17:31)
  • He lived under assumed identities, “burning the candle at both ends,” and was eventually caught after 8 years on the run because his wife withdrew too much cash, triggering law enforcement attention.
  • Memorable quote: "Every week we went shopping...I picked up the TV Guide...the first thing I saw was my name: Steve Wilson will be featured [on America's Most Wanted]. My heart stopped." (Steve Wilson, 31:44)
• Upon Recapture: Returned to New Folsom and “put in the hole.”

3. The Parole Process: Fear, Hope, and Accountability

• The Emotional Toll:
  • Multiple speakers describe the anxiety and hope surrounding parole hearing day.
  • Phil Melendez: "I remember my heart sinking, the butterflies times a million. I felt like there was maybe a billion butterflies in my stomach." (Phil Melendez, 13:52)
  • Even after being found “suitable,” one must wait months to learn if the date will be taken away during the review period.
  • Ron Self: "You’re literally walking on rice paper. If you were walking on eggshells before, you’re walking on rice paper now, it’s just, it’s anything can cause it." (Ron Self, 15:12)
• Facing the Board:
  • Deep introspection and taking responsibility for the commitment offense and personal growth are essential.
  • Danny Plunkett: "You have to be accountable for your actions prior to the commitment offense, the commitment offense, and after the commitment offense." (Danny Plunkett, 12:34)
  • The importance of “insight,” “accountability,” and demonstrating victim empathy.
  • Phil Melendez: "You didn’t minimize anything...when it came to every part of my negative behavior, I owned it and was able to trace it back to my childhood. And that's the insight, too." (Phil Melendez, 39:39)

4. Fantasies and Realities of Freedom

• Interviewed men reveal what freedom means to them, from the fantastical (a yacht trip around the world) to the intimate (watching a movie with family).
  • Phil Melendez: "My idea of freedom...is me sitting on the couch with the wife on one side, the kids on the other side...probably just from getting ice cream and watching The NeverEnding Story." (Phil Melendez, 22:56)
  • Ron Self: "I look forward to falling in love and just holding that person...and on the lighter side, I want to get a dog." (Ron Self, 23:19)

5. Accountability and Deservedness

• Profound discussion about whether the men “deserve” to get out.
  • Phil Melendez: "Do I want to get out? Absolutely...But I don’t think I could ever say that I deserve to be out." (Phil Melendez, 40:20)
  • The concept of creating a “rich, rewarding life” inside—even in the absence of release.

6. Reflections and Legacy

• Earlonne and Curtis reflect on practice and style in the early days of Ear Hustle; how storytelling and sound design have evolved.
• Updates on where the men are now:
  • Phil Melendez and Ron Self eventually released and involved with community or veterans’ programming.
  • Steve Wilson reportedly got out during COVID.
• Discussion about continued ambitions for future stories inside, including on Death Row and fantasy gaming in prison.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Steve Wilson on escaping: “My fail safe method was don’t tell anyone.” (Steve Wilson, 17:21)
• Ron Self on stress after parole suitability: “You’re literally walking on rice paper.” (Ron Self, 15:12)
• Phil Melendez on deserving parole: “Deserving, that’s a hard word to really stomach…just based on my understanding of my victim’s impact…I couldn’t really say I ever deserve anything.” (Phil Melendez, 40:20)
• Danny Plunkett on restorative justice: “I got to hear the pain…the empty stocking at Christmas, the empty chair at Thanksgiving. It was a very powerful experience, and I’m very grateful for that.” (Danny Plunkett, 36:26)
• Steve Wilson on memory and freedom: “They can lock the body up until it dies, but they can’t lock the mind up.” (Steve Wilson, 43:40)
• Show’s legacy: “The reality of Ear Hustle is bigger than the dream we had when we started.” (Nigel Poor, 47:18)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 06:26: Why “Getting a Date” was chosen as a classic Ear Hustle episode.
• 10:01: Introduction to Steve Wilson’s story.
• 17:21–19:29: Steve describes escape plan and execution.
• 22:30–23:45: Fantasies about freedom from those inside.
• 30:20–33:04: Steve Wilson’s life as a fugitive and eventual recapture.
• 35:01: Danny and others on accountability and preparing for parole.
• 39:05–41:00: Phil Melendez’s parole board experience and thoughts on deserving freedom.
• 43:40: Steve Wilson reflects on mental freedom.
• 47:18: The show’s impact and legacy quote.
• 49:18: Discussion of the show's lasting questions, including “Do you deserve to be out?”

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Tone & Language

The conversation is raw, honest, and deeply reflective, blending candid humor with somber introspection. The hosts keep the tone thoughtful yet approachable, directly addressing heavy topics like murder, remorse, hope, and transformation.

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Closing Reflection

“Getting a Date” remains one of the most insightful Ear Hustle stories, inviting listeners to consider parole as not simply a bureaucratic hurdle, but an emotional odyssey shaped by remorse, hope, and relentless waiting. Revisiting this episode encourages fresh reflection on justice, humanity, and the often-unseen complexities of life in—and after—prison.

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Transcript

[Earlonne Woods]

Before we get to the episode, we just want to say thank you.

[Nigel Poor]

Seriously, thank you.

[Earlonne Woods]

You've probably heard us talking about our spring fundraiser and how your support helps us make more episodes of Beer Hustle while also allowing us to bring our live show and our storytelling workshops into prisons around the country.

[Nigel Poor]

And one of the best parts of the fundraiser is hearing from you all. We love the comments you share with us when you donate.

[Earlonne Woods]

Like this note from Lena after our corny ass episode named by you. I adore your podcast and I'm grateful for all the work you do. And hugs are necessary and life saving. Nothing cheesy about them.

[Nigel Poor]

That's right, Lena.

[Curtis Fox]

That's right.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. Or this one from another L name Laura. Amazing podcast. I truly appreciate the work all of you do, inside and outside. Thank you for including the women.

[Earlonne Woods]

Honestly, though, only a small percentage of listeners don't. Less than 1%. It's tough out there. We know and we get it.

[Nigel Poor]

That's why we are so appreciative of the gifts we do get. Your donations help us do the work we do. Visiting prisons, telling stories, and bringing you voices that aren't often heard.

[Earlonne Woods]

And every single gift helps us get closer to our goal of 1,000 donors.

[Nigel Poor]

But time is running out before the end of the fundraiser and the end of the fiscal year. We need your help before the end of this month. Donate [e-mail] donate or by following the link in the episode notes.

[Earlonne Woods]

And in case we haven't said it enough, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. It means so much to us to be able to do this work. And we couldn't do it without you.

[Nigel Poor]

No, we couldn't,

[Earlonne Woods]

Nige. It's warm out there. And summer always changes how I get dressed. I want clothes that feel lighter, more breathable, clothes that are easy, but still.

[Nigel Poor]

And that's why I keep going back to Quint's. They focus on high quality clothes that feel and look amazing and earlonne. I actually just bought this pair of, like, lightweight jeans. I love them. I'm taking them on my summer trip.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, okay.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

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[Nigel Poor]

Everything at Quint's is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ETH factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality, not brand markup.

[Earlonne Woods]

And Quint's goes way beyond clothing custom upholstered sofas, ceramic cookware, premium bedding. It's the kind of brand you recommend to everyone for every day.

[Nigel Poor]

Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quint.comearhustle for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com earhust for free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Nigel Poor]

Quints.com earhustle this show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[Earlonne Woods]

For some folks, summer is the best time of the year. Their kids are out of school. They get to travel and focus on adventure and play.

[Nigel Poor]

But for other people, juggling all of that can be tough. A lot of people end up feeling overwhelmed and counting down the minutes until their kids actually go back to school.

[Earlonne Woods]

And that's stress because it's summer and you want to be thriving, not just surviving, right?

[Nigel Poor]

And it's important to build time in for ourselves, even during summer. And that's where therapy comes in.

[Earlonne Woods]

Therapy can help people better understand their needs, feel more confident setting boundaries, and create a version of summer that actually feels good.

[Nigel Poor]

With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews.

[Earlonne Woods]

You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find support and therapy. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] earhustle that's betterhelp.com earhustle I'm ready when you're ready. This is a short episode, too.

[Curtis Fox]

I love a short episode. Welcome back to the studio Airlon to listen to this short episode.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's good to be back.

[Curtis Fox]

We're pulling another one out of the archives, one that we wanted to revisit and wanted listeners to either hear for the first time or return to and consider again. Because we feel like this one, people might forget about this one.

[Earlonne Woods]

This is a classic. This is a true Ear Hustled episode.

[Curtis Fox]

And what are we listening to?

[Earlonne Woods]

We are listening to Getting a Date. And Getting a date was our 10th episode of season one, and this was the episode that Antoine came back for.

[Curtis Fox]

Do we want to explain the story about why Antoine?

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, yes, we definitely should.

[Curtis Fox]

The story's out of the mix.

[Earlonne Woods]

Antoine. So Antoine, you know, he always say that, you know, he grew up and didn't have the best of things. And when he went to prison, you know, there was an opportunity for him to wear some of the flyest clothes.

[Curtis Fox]

And he tailored them himself.

[Earlonne Woods]

He tailored some of them himself, made, like, little shirts. He used to be in there with the tennis shoes that he done painted on. And he ended up going to the hole.

[Curtis Fox]

And the initial issue was that you're not supposed to. To alter state clothing. Is that right?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes, yes. And then when they just locked him up and went to his bunk area, they discovered, like, a locker full of, like, unauthorized clothing. So they was like, wait a minute. Are you trying to escape? But he was just trying to be fly. He was being himself. You know, I think, if I'm not mistaken, he was on a picture that's

[Curtis Fox]

a story with all the. I remember the San Quentin News ran a story about Ear Hustle being chosen by PRX in that competition, and it featured a picture of Julie and Curtis and you and Nigel and Antoine. And Antoine had on one of his sharp cardigans.

[Earlonne Woods]

Cardigans with the blue prison shirt up under it.

[Curtis Fox]

Somebody saw him. They're like, wait, is this an incarcerated person?

[Danny Plunkett]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

That was hilarious. And I think it was on the front page of the San Quentin News, too.

[Curtis Fox]

Why did you want to listen back to this episode?

[Earlonne Woods]

Because this right here was one of those stories that everybody dream of when they in prison. And I'm going to say everybody, because everybody escapes that place. But this was a guy that actually followed his dreams. We're gonna hear his story. We're gonna hear one of the deepest questions Nigel has ever asked anyone. And I want y' all to pick it up. I ain't gonna say what it is.

[Curtis Fox]

Okay, so this dropped. It was the 10th and final episode of the first season. Dropped in October 2017. What were things like for you in October 2017?

[Earlonne Woods]

October of 2017. I was just jailing, just doing time, you know what I'm saying? And enjoying accomplishing a whole season with PRX and Radiotopia.

[Curtis Fox]

But it must have been a different place than it had been six months earlier.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. No. So, you know, when you are in a confined environment. For me, I used to always clown other podcast shows. I used to be like, yeah, you know, y' all gotta go take the trash out, take the kids to daycare, go here, go there, get on the freeway, deal with traffic. Like, we right here, we have none of that. We just stick to the stories. This is all we got to do is just sit in here and work on stories. So it was fun work. It was rewarding, and a lot of people got what we was doing. We were talking about the everyday existence inside prison. And that's it.

[Curtis Fox]

Yep. Okay, so we're going to listen to the first segment, we're going to come back, talk a little bit about it, listen to the second part, come back at the end and do a wrap up. Ear hustle episode 10 getting a date fer the Under Podcast. Eine holospruak som canons es o lamplit fervi salis nar. The following podcast contains language that may not be appropriate for our listeners.

[Earlonne Woods]

You're now tuned in to San Quentin's ear hustle from PRX's Radiotopia.

[Nigel Poor]

Hey, E. Tell everyone how you heard about this story. You really ear hustled this one.

[Earlonne Woods]

I think it was back, like, in January. I was in a child hall and I'm waiting in line for dinner and there was a couple of dudes behind me, and one was telling the other guy about this 115 he got a.

[Nigel Poor]

115 is a rule of violation.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right, right. Except this wasn't about contraband or fight. This was about an actual escape. So, you know, it got a little interesting. Right. I'm hustling this one.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm sure you are.

[Earlonne Woods]

So I did one of those I'm not listening to what you're saying things and turn around just so I can really identify the guy. And later I saw him on a yard, and he was in front of the area where the white guys kick it. And he's an older guy, but he was busting down, doing burpees, getting his money. Right?

[Nigel Poor]

Nice, nice.

[Earlonne Woods]

So I waited for him to finish his set, and then I walked over to him and I'm like, excuse me, sir, my name is Earlonne. Can I holla at you for a second? And we start talking and I told him about the podcast and I was like, look, man, I was in line the other day and it was you and another guy, and you was telling him about a 115 you had, and it was a very interesting story.

[Nigel Poor]

And.

[Earlonne Woods]

And I would hope that you can come down to the studio so we can talk about it. And he was like, no. I'm Earlonne Woods, a prisoner at San Quentin State Prison in California.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm Nigel Poor, a visual artist who works with incarcerated men at San Quentin.

[Earlonne Woods]

And together we're going to take you inside.

[Steve Wilson]

I've been denied three times. This is my fourth parole hearing coming up.

[Earlonne Woods]

Now, Steve Wilson has been in prison on and off for about 30 years.

[Nigel Poor]

He didn't want to talk to us at first because he had that parole hearing Coming up, he didn't want to say something that might be used against him.

[Earlonne Woods]

Which is smart, because if your parole hearing is successful, you get a date. It's what everyone wants, a date to get out of prison. And that's what we're talking about on this episode, what it takes to get out of prison.

[Nigel Poor]

So, Earlonne, Steve Wilson didn't want to talk to us. This was way back before we even did our first episode. So maybe he didn't know what we were talking about. And honestly, we didn't even know what we were doing.

[Earlonne Woods]

Maybe, I mean, I explained it to him. You know, I'm like, hey, man, we'll hold this story off until after your parole hearing. And after talking to him like that, he agreed to holler at us.

[Steve Wilson]

I thought I had a good chance at parole the last time. I had a low risk of recidivism. I had over 20 years of clean time with no write ups. I had no violence in my history except my commitment offense in 1979.

[Nigel Poor]

Commitment offense. That's the crime that put him in prison in the first place.

[Earlonne Woods]

In 1979, Steve Wilson murdered his father in law on a ranch in California. It was a complicated domestic dispute that we're not going to get into here. But basically, Steve's wife left him and he went to her father's ranch to get her back, but his father in law wouldn't allow him on the ranch. So, long story short, Steve kidnapped his father in law and ended up killing him, shooting him twice.

[Nigel Poor]

I believe it's been almost 40 years since that murder. And Steve's now 73 years old. But it's not just his crime that's keeping him in prison.

[Steve Wilson]

Every time I go to the board, there's always this one rule violation at 115 that I got about 30 years ago. And every time I go to the board, they bring it up.

[Earlonne Woods]

I bet they do. We're gonna hear more about that rule violation. But first, here's what's waiting for Steve when he goes to the board. This is Danny Plunkett, who has been incarcerated for 27 years for murder and robbery.

[Danny Plunkett]

You have to go in there, you have to be accountable for your actions prior to the commitment offense, the commitment offense, and after the commitment offense. And you sit down in front of the commissioner, deputy commissioner, who hold your life in their hands.

[Nigel Poor]

Danny just went to the board, so the memory is fresh.

[Danny Plunkett]

You go to your first parole hearing here at San Quentin. You go in the same direction that you would go to a visit. You've gone that way many times. But this is a whole new experience. Emotions, nerves are just raw. And you've got your packet under your arm, all your stuff, support letters, parole plans, relapse prevention plan, maybe a couple book reports, an essay that you've written. And as you're headed to where the visiting is, you make a left and you have to stand there and wait for an officer to come get you. He takes you through a gate, you go up a short flight of stairs and there's a holding cell. There's a wooden bench and you sit on that bench.

[Phil Melendez]

I can honestly remember sitting in the, in the holding cell waiting for them to call me to go to the board.

[Earlonne Woods]

Phil Melendez was on a recent episode about unwritten rules of race. He's been incarcerated for 20 years for a double murder. He also just went to the board

[Phil Melendez]

and you know, they call you, they say, hey Mr. Melendez, they're ready for you. And I remember my heart sinking, the butterflies times a million. I felt like there was maybe a billion butterflies in my stomach. I felt like electric, like my whole body was like flowing with energy, but nervous energy, not such a good energy.

[Nigel Poor]

If you're lucky and you get a date at the hearing, those butterflies don't necessarily go away. Ron Self was on our first episode talking about the celly from hell. He served 23 years for attempted murder. He actually got a date recently and he's scheduled to be released soon.

[Ron Self]

But they have up to 120 days to review it. And you know, it's cockroach Motel. Easy to get in, hard to get out. That's kind of how I look at it. It's a slow process getting out.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's slow because your date goes through a review process. And as Ron knows, they can take your date away from you at any time.

[Ron Self]

So there's this euphoric feeling. I mean it's like, wow, I'm really found suitable. This is not my reality, what's about to come happen. And so then another type of stress starts to set in. It's like, am I gonna somehow get the date taken away like other people have? I think it's worse stress.

[Phil Melendez]

Why?

[Nigel Poor]

Why? Why?

[Ron Self]

Because you just, you, you, you don't know, you think you're walk, you're literally walking on rice paper. If you were walking on eggshells before, you're walking on rice paper now, it's just, it's anything can cause it.

[Earlonne Woods]

Waiting. Prison is all about waiting. And then when something finally happens, goes your way, you get a date. You still gotta Wait.

[Steve Wilson]

S, T, E, P, H E, N is the correct spelling. Steven. Steve for short.

[Nigel Poor]

Steve's been waiting a long time and you can see why he's anxious about his parole hearing.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yep, it's that rule violation. The parole board is gonna know all about it and it's a big one. We're gonna hear about that right now. And we're also gonna check back in with the other guys to see how they fared with the board.

[Nigel Poor]

After he murdered his father in law. Steve Wilson was sentenced to 25 years to life. And he started serving his time at California's second most famous prison.

[Steve Wilson]

I arrived at old Folsom in October of 1982, and after I established myself and felt comfortable, I began making plans to escape.

[Earlonne Woods]

He started with research in the prison library. Steve found some books about escape attempts from Old Folsom.

[Steve Wilson]

There had been dozens and dozens of attempts to escape out of Old Folsom that had never been successful.

[Nigel Poor]

Steve said that he thought these books were in the library to show guys how impossible it was to escape.

[Earlonne Woods]

But Steve learned something very important from these failed attempts.

[Steve Wilson]

They failed because somebody told whenever there was more than one person, somebody chickened out. And I had those same emotions at the end myself. Am I going to do this or am I not? And the one way to chicken out is you drop a kite on yourself and say there's this escape attempt and everybody gets busted. And that's what I read in the books. My fail safe method was don't tell anyone.

[Earlonne Woods]

Steve was working in an industrial warehouse in the prison, and that's where he saw his opportunity.

[Nigel Poor]

They received a gigantic exhaust fan. The type that goes on top of a building.

[Steve Wilson]

Weighed about 1400 pounds.

[Nigel Poor]

The fan was there for repairs, which meant that eventually it was going to get shipped out.

[Steve Wilson]

And the more I looked at this fan, the more I realized this was to be the way to go.

[Earlonne Woods]

There was an 18 inch opening underneath the fan. With practice, Steve found that he could squeeze inside it and not be seen.

[Steve Wilson]

From that point on, I just focused on getting enough money hidden away and waiting my opportunity. Over this period of time, I had accumulated $2,000. My dad would visit me. He had $100 bills rolled up inside of balloons so tight they were about the size of pills. My dad would just drop them out of his hand into the soda and I would drink them, swallow them, wait until the next day and fish them.

[Danny Plunkett]

Ugh.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yep. But now he had money and a plan. Then one day his boss told him that the fan was getting ready to ship. So when no one was looking. Steve crawled inside.

[Steve Wilson]

I can remember very distinctly August 2, 1984. It was already hot. And I'm in this fan. I'm sitting down in the middle of the floor, and there's two or three officers and free staff walking around. And one of them, my boss, comes over and he's standing next to the fan, and he tells the guys, he says, okay, load the fan now. And so my heart's, you know, beating so loud, I'm thinking that they've got to hear it because this is a scary situation. And I'm sweating profusely, drops of sweater falling off my head and hitting the cardboard. And to me it sounds like somebody's thump, thump, thump. And so I'm thinking, I'm sure they can hear that out there.

[Nigel Poor]

But they didn't hear him. And the fan was loaded into the trailer of the truck. The truck left the prison and Steve was out. But this was just the beginning of his escape.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, we interviewed him for about two hours, and he remembers everything that happened that day, like when he realized he was locked inside the trailer.

[Steve Wilson]

This is where I made my mistake in my planning.

[Earlonne Woods]

It took him a while to find a way out.

[Steve Wilson]

I'm sitting there and there's these little pin pricks of light coming down from the roof in the. In the trailer and little dust motes floating around. And I'm thinking, where in the world is that coming from? And I look up at the ceiling and there's all this duct tape.

[Earlonne Woods]

He pulled the duct tape down and popped out.

[Nigel Poor]

Then he hitched a ride, and the trucker who gave him a ride was pulled over by the highway patrol because he had skipped a way station.

[Earlonne Woods]

But Steve kept his cool and he made it to San Jose, where he bought food and clothing.

[Steve Wilson]

I would imagine it would be about 12 o' clock by now. And I was starting to feel paranoia and thinking that every little airplane that flew over every car was looking for me. And so I found a big clump of bushes and I curled up in the bushes and took a little nap.

[Nigel Poor]

He got up into the mountains, and it took him weeks, but he walked. And I mean, he walked almost 500 miles all the way to the town of Ramona, just north of San Diego.

[Earlonne Woods]

Steve's originally from Florida, but he lived in the San Diego area when he was in the service. He hadn't told anyone in the prison about his plans, but he had told his mom and dad.

[Steve Wilson]

They came and visited me and they said they hadn't been notified that I had escaped other than the fact that I told them I was going to. So mom gave me some more money. We said our goodbyes. I said, I don't know when the next time I'll see you. They left. I'm kind of afraid to be moving around because this is considered my hometown. And obviously the cops should have been notified.

[Nigel Poor]

Steve bought a car and he started driving. He made it to El Paso on the first day and then kept going.

[Steve Wilson]

When I got to Austin, I saw builder screens for high rise construction. And when I saw those, I knew that I'd get a job and I knew I wasn't going to go any further.

[Earlonne Woods]

Steve Wilson became one of few men to successfully escape from old Folsom State Prison. He was out of prison, but he wasn't really free. The authorities were after him, and he knew they weren't gonna stop looking for him ever.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, you know, and he wouldn't be able to see his mom and dad again. He couldn't hang out with old friends. And he was definitely gonna have to assume other names along the way. And he'd always be looking over his shoulder. I mean, e. He wasn't gonna have a normal life.

[Earlonne Woods]

Nah, that's just it. If you escape and you don't get killed trying to do so, you're not going to get what all of us want. A chance at a normal life. And that's something that a lot of us behind bars fantasize about. Getting out and leading a normal life.

[Nigel Poor]

What are some of the things you think about when you fantasize about your life when you're out?

[Earlonne Woods]

Off the top of my head, it's unrealistic, but I think about just getting out of San Quentin, jumping in the water and swimming to my yacht, and going around the world.

[Phil Melendez]

Nice.

[Nigel Poor]

We asked some other guys in our story what they fantasize about, and they're not quite as ambitious as ue. Here's Philip.

[Phil Melendez]

My idea of freedom in its most simplest and most beautiful form is me sitting on the couch with the wife on one side, the kids on the other side. And we're all just sitting there. Probably haven't came back just from getting ice cream and watching the Neverending Story.

[Nigel Poor]

I kind of like that movie, too. Here's what Ron's been fantasizing about.

[Ron Self]

I look forward to falling in love and just holding that person. And I don't even mean in a sexual way, just to feel that person, the warmth of that person. I look forward to that. And on the lighter side, I want to get a dog.

[Earlonne Woods]

We're gonna take A break here. And when we get back, we're gonna hear what kind of life Steve led as an escaped felon.

[Curtis Fox]

All right, what'd you think, man?

[Earlonne Woods]

Every voice we've heard so far is free from the listener alert, which is David Jasse to every other person in there.

[Curtis Fox]

Yeah. And I know Ron Self.

[Steve Wilson]

Who?

[Curtis Fox]

You heard Ron Selfu a few times. He runs programs.

[Earlonne Woods]

He runs a veterans program. He's doing very well. Phil Melendez. He goes back into the prisons doing very. Everybody is doing damn good.

[Curtis Fox]

I love that it has the classic. I think of it as a Curtis Fox move, where you sort of tell enough of the main story and then they're like, but we're gonna come back to that.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, we'll get right.

[Curtis Fox]

I can't imagine with all the books that they don't allow in prison, they have a book in there about how to escape from the prison you're in.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's a book. A few books.

[Curtis Fox]

A few books, that's right. I wonder if they still have those books. We're due to go up to Folsom soon.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, well, we need to go to

[Curtis Fox]

the library and check.

[Earlonne Woods]

The library and check.

[Curtis Fox]

Maybe they heard this. They. They took it out.

[Earlonne Woods]

Or they might got one in there on him.

[Curtis Fox]

I guess CDCR didn't have any hesitations about us releasing this episode with a explanation of an escape.

[Earlonne Woods]

Nah, it happened.

[Curtis Fox]

Maybe they don't have fans anymore.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, yeah, it's documented.

[Curtis Fox]

Anything else you heard in the first half? Any edits, any notes?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes, a lot. I was talking fast, and I probably sounded a little reedy in some areas. You know, sound design was a little dense. Back to back to back to back to back. Different size.

[Curtis Fox]

I like the sound design when he's telling the story of getting out. I thought that was really good.

[Earlonne Woods]

Suspenseful.

[Curtis Fox]

Yeah, exactly. And composed for the moment.

[Earlonne Woods]

You could tell.

[Curtis Fox]

And speaking of people who are out, there are a couple pieces of nice. Just solo guitar in there. Not an escape part. But that must be Phil Phillips, who just got out within a year or two.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, he just got out. I just talked to him the other day.

[Curtis Fox]

Yeah, I noticed we mentioned everybody's crime, and I can't remember if that was. We were just doing that as a practice in the first season or if we were talking about these guys. Paroled, was it?

[Earlonne Woods]

I think it was more of the parole.

[Curtis Fox]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

And I think it could have been Jermaine to this based on they were going to the board and why they were going to the board.

[Curtis Fox]

Yeah, maybe that's why. Cause we did go into Steve's crime in detail, but maybe that's because it was sort of in the frame of the parole. Although. So it's interesting that the, like, the main story doesn't really have that much to do with parole. Sort of like you slide an escape story into an episode about parole.

[Steve Wilson]

Ah.

[Earlonne Woods]

Or slide parole into an episode about escape.

[Curtis Fox]

Right. All right, let's take a break and then we'll come back. Listen to the second part.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yep.

[Nigel Poor]

Our Radiotopia colleagues and favorite office mates, the Kitchen Sisters, have a new series rolling out over the next year called Quilts and As Monuments.

[Earlonne Woods]

Their first story chronicles the Sow Their Names project, an unlikely collaboration between an African American preacher, a white federal court judge, and a group of rural Alabama quilters.

[Nigel Poor]

Recently, hundreds of long forgotten pre Civil War names of enslaved and segregated black members of churches across Alabama were uncovered in a Baptist archive. The so Their Names project is bringing people together across the state to embroider, memorialize and bring these names alive on quilts.

[Curtis Fox]

When I went to working on the quilt, I said, now these people can speak out amongst what I'm doing.

[Nigel Poor]

The project is going to help us remember. It's always good to have a memorial. You don't hide the past.

[Earlonne Woods]

It was something that we owned.

[Nigel Poor]

It was something that we owned up to and we went away with our history. Maybe will become a monument.

[Earlonne Woods]

The Kitchen Sisters present sew their quilts as monuments. Now available wherever you get your podcasts. Today's show is sponsored by Strawberry Me.

[Nigel Poor]

Success in your career means different things to different people. You know, like learning new skills so you can get a different job or

[Earlonne Woods]

how to develop a better work, family

[Nigel Poor]

balance or how to work effectively as part of a team.

[Earlonne Woods]

And it can be hard to figure out all these things while you're working, doing things the same way day in, day out.

[Nigel Poor]

That's where career coaching can really help.

[Earlonne Woods]

Career coaching from Strawberry Me can give you the clarity, strategy and accountability to turn goals into reality.

[Nigel Poor]

Your Strawberry Me coach will help you identify obstacles that are holding you back, develop a step by step plan, and support you as you make intentional moves towards success.

[Earlonne Woods]

My coach helped me create a plan for each of my goals. Every time we meet, we review my progress, which helps me stay accountable.

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne I'm really impressed. I love the updates you're giving me. And my coach is really insightful about team dynamics, which is something I'm interested in. She's given me a lot to think about and some really thoughtful readings and exercises to help clarify things that I'm pondering right now.

[Earlonne Woods]

Go to Strawberry Me earhustle and get 50% off your first coaching session. That's Strawberry Me Earhustle. It's like therapy for your career.

[Steve Wilson]

It is

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne. When you're shopping online, do you notice that some websites are way easier to navigate than others?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes. And you know I'm usually the multitasker.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, I know you are.

[Earlonne Woods]

So I appreciate the businesses that make my shopping experience easier and faster.

[Nigel Poor]

10% of all E commerce brands in the US including Allbirds and Rare Beauty, use Shopify. In fact, Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world.

[Earlonne Woods]

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[Nigel Poor]

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[Earlonne Woods]

See less carts go abandoned and more sales go with Shopify and their shop pay button. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com earhustle go to shopify.com earhustlE that's shopify.com earhustLLE.

[Steve Wilson]

Being on Xscape, probably the first thing you wake up with and go to bed with every night is, wow, I made it to another day. But there becomes a point in time where you start to feel comfortable.

[Nigel Poor]

After his escape from old Folsom, Steve made his way to Austin. He found work there and met his

[Steve Wilson]

future wife, this really nice lady. We got along really well, and after a year or so, we moved from Texas back down to my home in Florida and I told her who I was and we bought a piece of ground. We bought an acre in a gated community on a lake and I built a house. I had built a new family with her and her son, who I was with and raised from the time he was 2 until he was almost 11. And her family that adopted me as one of them, sounds kind of like a normal life.

[Earlonne Woods]

Not really.

[Steve Wilson]

I realized, I've always realized when I escaped that, you know, it's only going to last so long, there will be an end. And so I kind of burnt my candle at both ends.

[Nigel Poor]

It lasted for years. Steve ran a small maintenance and construction company. He traveled and he fit in with his community. Now it sounds kind of normal, right?

[Steve Wilson]

And every week we went shopping in town.

[Earlonne Woods]

Not really.

[Steve Wilson]

I picked up the TV Guide one time as we were in the checkout line and I looked for America's Most Wanted. I think it was playing on Sunday nights then. And the first thing I saw was my name. Steve Wilson will be featured. My heart stopped.

[Earlonne Woods]

So TV Guide and America's Most Wanted tipped off the fugitive Steve Wilson.

[Nigel Poor]

Steve immediately went on the run again. He moved to Australia, then to England, where he convinced his wife to join him.

[Steve Wilson]

I've got my British citizenship, I've got my Australian citizenship. And I figured out how to bring you over here and make you a citizen, too. And she says, okay. I said, next thing I need you to do is to empty out my account, which she had her name on. And I said, bring me my money. I said, just make sure you don't take. Take more than 10,000 at a time, take less.

[Nigel Poor]

Either she didn't listen to him or she didn't think it was important because she ended up taking up more than

[Earlonne Woods]

$10,000 in one withdrawal.

[Nigel Poor]

And that was the problem.

[Earlonne Woods]

The FBI was monitoring that account. They tipped off Scotland Yard and she was followed from the moment she got off that plane.

[Steve Wilson]

Yep.

[Earlonne Woods]

When she met up with Steve at the hotel in London, he got arrested immediately.

[Steve Wilson]

I escaped on August 2, 1984. Eight years later, in 1992, I was returned to New Folsom and put in the hole.

[Earlonne Woods]

So that's Steve's 115. That's the rule violation that will come up at his parole hearing. And he'll have to answer for that yet again.

[Nigel Poor]

Yep. And he's also going to have to talk about his life before he murdered his father in law. He'll have to talk about the murder itself. And he'll also have to talk about what he's been doing since he's been back in prison after his escape.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, guys have to explain what sort of work they've been doing to understand themselves, to change. There's a whole bunch of vocabulary for this inside of prison.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, you guys talk about, like insight and accountability all the time.

[Earlonne Woods]

And some guys really do take it on, but some guys don't. And the board is going to be listening and looking hard to determine what's really going on inside.

[Steve Wilson]

What do I think my chances are at parole? I think that I've prepared myself. I've done some deep study and research into myself, and I understand what it was and the way my belief system was that allowed me to take such a drastic step. I do courses over and over again. I do AA, NA and been doing it for over 10 years. Even though I have gotten everything from it that I can get. I mean, I live it every day. I ask myself every day a question. I question myself and I say, you Know, have I addressed my defects? Am I trying to control anybody? Am I trying to take advantage? And. And then I also asked myself, have I done anything positive today?

[Danny Plunkett]

For myself, I would say I did a lot of writing.

[Earlonne Woods]

This is Danny Plunkett again. He's been involved with restorative justice programs, which is about dialogue between victims and offenders. Here's how he prepared to face the board.

[Danny Plunkett]

I would just write. I would write about the crime. I would write about who I was leading up to the crime. And. And also a lot of victim empathy exercises. Just trying to write on what it must have been like for them and trying to imagine maybe what it's been like for them since the crime, since the trial, that kind of stuff.

[Nigel Poor]

At Danny's parole hearing, he faced a commissioner and a deputy commissioner.

[Danny Plunkett]

So we walk into the room, and there's directly in front of me, there's two seats. The farthest one my lawyer is sitting in, and then the one that I'm going to sit in. And there's two tables on the left, and that's where the commissioner and the deputy commissioner. And then the back of the room is just a line of people. And I can't look. I can't look at them.

[Earlonne Woods]

That row of people behind Danny, they're called V knocks victims, next of kin. And Danny was not allowed to look at them. He couldn't acknowledge their presence in any way.

[Nigel Poor]

Danny can't address anyone except the commissioners.

[Earlonne Woods]

At Danny's hearing, the victim's representatives got a chance to speak.

[Danny Plunkett]

And I got to hear a little of the young man that I murdered's life before. And then I got to hear from the victims, two victims who were at the crime, and hear their experiences. And I got it. I got it all. I got to hear the family's history, you know, hear my victim's life growing up in great detail. And, you know, that's really restorative justice, except for the fact that I couldn't look at them. They had family pictures. I couldn't look. And it was really tough not to look. But I got to hear the pain and the heartache and the loss, you know, the empty stocking at Christmas, the empty chair at Thanksgiving. It was. It was a very powerful experience, and I'm very grateful for that.

[Earlonne Woods]

Guys find out pretty quick if they're getting a date, often within minutes after the hearing. Danny did not get a date.

[Danny Plunkett]

I struggle with whether or not I deserve to get out of prison. And because of the harm that I've caused and the life I took, that can't be returned and relived. I want out. There's a lot of things I want to do, you know, but on the other hand, I have a pretty good life in here at San Quentin. I've been able to find me, for the first time in my life, somebody that I'm proud of. I have a rewarding, rich, rewarding life with so many programs and relationships, you know, with people and even some people locally who, you know, I've met since I've been here that come to visit. And outside volunteers, there's so many outside volunteers. So I have a rich life in here. I really look forward to having a rich life out of here.

[Nigel Poor]

Danny will have another chance before the board in three years. Here's what happened at Philip's hearing. And just a reminder, Philip has been in prison for 20 years for a double murder he committed when he was 19 years old.

[Phil Melendez]

One of the things that they said, they said, you know, Mr. Melendez. Well, they said, you know, there's no getting around the crime. It's a horrendous crime, and it is. And I agreed wholeheartedly when he said that, and I agree with it now to this day. But when they talked about suitability factors, you know, they said that you have done a lot of work. You've done a lot of work on yourself. You have insight. And one of the things that I did well, they said, was you didn't minimize anything, which means that when it came to every part of my negative behavior, I owned it and was able to trace it back to my childhood. And that's the insight, too.

[Nigel Poor]

Philip's hearing lasted about three and a half hours.

[Phil Melendez]

And, you know, you done talked about all your traumas, and it's painful, it's sad, it's. It hurts. And then you have to wait. And those 15 to 20 minutes just seem like forever. And they come and get you and they say, all right, let's reconvene. Sure enough, they walked me in there. They said, Mr. Melendez, we find you suitable for parole. And, you know, you feel the weight of the world come off your chest.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you think you deserve to get out?

[Phil Melendez]

I don't know. I don't know about deserving. Deserving. That's a hard word to really to stomach. Just based on my accountability, just based on my understanding of my victim's impact or the impact I had on my victim's lives, I couldn't really say I ever deserve anything. Right. Do I want to get out? Absolutely. Do I have a family? Do I have a community That I want to fix, that I want to restore. Yes, absolutely. And for them and for the community, I would like to see myself out. I would like to see myself out. But I don't think I could ever say that I deserve to be out.

[Earlonne Woods]

The reaction inside of San Quentin to Philip getting his date has been mixed. He says most of his fellow prisoners have been supportive, but he's heard complaints.

[Phil Melendez]

One of the worst ones I've heard was like, oh, I can't believe that M effer got a date. You know, he killed two people and then the only comfort that guy could get is just keep thinking out loud. This is what somebody told me. He kept thinking about it. It's like, well, at least the governor will take his date.

[Earlonne Woods]

But that didn't happen. In September, Phil Melendez got out of prison and he's living in Northern California.

[Nigel Poor]

Maybe he's already had a chance to watch the Never Ending Story on the couch with his wife and kids.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, I'mma have to catch that movie on my yacht.

[Ron Self]

I used to tell myself, you know, I can't wait to get away from these freaking turds.

[Nigel Poor]

Ron Self is still waiting for his

[Ron Self]

date to arrive, and now it's looking like that's going to happen. I'm finding myself realizing I'm going to miss a lot of these people, especially the veterans.

[Earlonne Woods]

Before he came to prison for attempted murder, Ron was in the military.

[Ron Self]

I feel like I'm low emotional. I feel like I'm leaving him behind and I don't like that. That bothers me. And it surprises me because I didn't think that would bother me.

[Nigel Poor]

Here's the latest on Ron. After he got his date, he had to wait months to see if it would pass review. Just last Friday, he was called to go see his counselor.

[Ron Self]

I almost threw up. I mean, I could feel it in my throat. It was just like, holy shit. But I get there and the counselor comes running out and he's like, yeah, the governor reviewed your case today and he took no action. I'm like, cool, so what am I getting out? I don't know. He says, I don't know, but you gotta sign these papers.

[Earlonne Woods]

On October 19, 2017, after 23 years in prison, Ron Self walked free. But I think he's coming back to prison, though.

[Steve Wilson]

What?

[Nigel Poor]

You think he's coming back here for sure?

[Earlonne Woods]

I do.

[Nigel Poor]

Well, you actually are right, because he founded a program, Veterans Healing Veterans, and he's going to be visiting veterans in prisons across the state.

[Earlonne Woods]

Okay. How are you doing today?

[Steve Wilson]

I'm a little tired, but I'm healthy.

[Nigel Poor]

Back to Steve Wilson and his board hearing. We interviewed him before the hearing and after. It didn't go well for him.

[Steve Wilson]

My feelings on that, I was hurt. I really expected to get a date.

[Earlonne Woods]

He was philosophical about it, though.

[Steve Wilson]

It seems that the older that I get, the more I'm kind of living in my memories. I can go any place I want. I can do anything I want. I can relive all my experiences as long as I don't lose my memory. And that is a freedom. They can lock the body up until it dies, but they can't lock the mind up.

[Earlonne Woods]

Thanks to Steve Wilson for sharing his story with us.

[Nigel Poor]

And also big thanks to Danny Plunkett, Philip Melendez and Ron Self for telling us about their experience with the parole board.

[Earlonne Woods]

Sound design on this episode was a group effort for music contributed by Antwan Williams, David Jassy, E. Phil Phillips, and Earlonne Woods. Myself, Pat Mesiti Miller is our outside production advisor. Our story editor is Curtis Fox, and our executive producer for Radiotopia is Julie Shapiro.

[Nigel Poor]

We also want to thank Warden Ron Davis and Larry Schneider, who runs the media lab we work in. And as you know, every episode has to be approved by this guy here.

[Earlonne Woods]

I am Lieutenant Sam Robinson, the public information officer at San Quentin State Prison, and I approve the story. The final episode of season one. I'm really looking forward to hearing. Well, maybe I am.

[Phil Melendez]

I'm not really sure because there's been

[Earlonne Woods]

a lot of work this season. But given that we move forward with season two, I'm really looking forward to see what what new stories develop out of here.

[Danny Plunkett]

Hustle.

[Nigel Poor]

It feels so weird to not say next time on Ear Hustle. E. I'm not ready for this.

[Earlonne Woods]

Me either. But don't get too damn nice because we got plans to drop a few surprises in the feed leading up to next season.

[Nigel Poor]

And we've heard from so many listeners about the original music we use in our episodes, and we're gonna dig into that and share some of those songs in full.

[Earlonne Woods]

And maybe we might do a Q and A episode or something. Right?

[Nigel Poor]

You know, we've been getting so many kites. I've got so many to go through. And I want to give a shout out to Jefferson County Public Schools and the more traditional school specifically because they have a teacher there that did a project with her class. And we got like 62 kites in one day.

[Earlonne Woods]

So keep those kites coming and let us know what you want to hear.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay? E. I know we can't get specific about what we're working on for next season. But what's one story you want to do?

[Earlonne Woods]

Ministering on Death Row.

[Nigel Poor]

Ooh, that's a heavy one.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, that's a deep one. Do you think we're going to get get on Death Row this year?

[Nigel Poor]

That's the big question, is if we're gonna get up there.

[Earlonne Woods]

What about you, Nige?

[Nigel Poor]

For sure. I wanna do A story about L7's nerds and fantasy games inside.

[Earlonne Woods]

Let's just say we got a shitload of work to do over the break, so please stay tuned. NYJ will be posting on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook, and you might find her out there talking about Ear Hustle over the break.

[Nigel Poor]

I'll continue updating the website, earhustlesq.com check out the gallery for new images. And also, we get so many questions about writing to guys inside. Please go to the FAQ section on the website to find out how to do that.

[Earlonne Woods]

People love Mel and not just the guys at San Quentin.

[Nigel Poor]

Thanks to everyone who's listened over the season and supported us in so many ways. You know what I always say to Lieutenant Robinson when I talk about Ear Hustle?

[Steve Wilson]

No, what?

[Nigel Poor]

The reality of Earhart Hustle is bigger than the dream we had when we started.

[Steve Wilson]

Damn.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, that's deep.

[Nigel Poor]

It is. And we've been supported by so many people.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. We had over 5 million downloads this season.

[Nigel Poor]

It's amazing. It's really amazing.

[Earlonne Woods]

She got all that BO doing.

[Steve Wilson]

Okay.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's what's up. Okay. Be seen crying in prison, woman.

[Nigel Poor]

Absolutely not. So again, thanks to everyone who cared enough to listen, I'm Nigel Poor.

[Earlonne Woods]

And thanks to the entire San Quentin community, I'm Earlonne Woods. Thanks for listening.

[Curtis Fox]

Slow fade, no Easter egg. Ah, that's interesting. It's like a historical artifact, those credits.

[Earlonne Woods]

That is. You know, one of the things came out of those credits that became a slogan was the reality is bigger than the dream. You know, and that was for real. For real. That was from the gate. And then I think when we said that, someone sent us in a watercolor little art piece about it. But yeah, man. And you know what? I've been wondering what's up with Steve Wilson?

[Curtis Fox]

I was about to ask.

[Earlonne Woods]

I used to talk to him for a minute, but then I think he moved states. He probably moved back to Florida.

[Curtis Fox]

Oh, yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know what I'm saying?

[Curtis Fox]

So he did eventually get out.

[Earlonne Woods]

He got out. I think he got out during COVID But when I used to go in, I used to always bounce up in there. And holla at him, you know what I'm saying? And we'd chop it up for a minute. But he was still a cool dude. And that meant one thing I could say about him. He did burpees all the way till I remember, you know what I'm saying? In his 70s, he was out there doing burpees, and I pushed up on him. She was doing burpees, you know what I'm saying? That was a deep one. And then, like I say, this was one of the most interesting questions Nigel had done to that part. When he asked. When she asked the person, did he deserve to be out?

[Curtis Fox]

Do you remember what you asked that?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, I remember. I was like, huh? You know what I'm saying?

[Curtis Fox]

That's a good question. It was a good question. He thinks about it deeply.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, he thought deeply on it. And he, you know, I don't deserve nothing. You know, would I like to be.

[Danny Plunkett]

Yes.

[Earlonne Woods]

So, you know, listening to this episode, it did, you know, bring back a lot of thoughts from that time.

[Curtis Fox]

Yeah. I was wondering. So this came out October 2017, at which point your first parole date would have still been like, a decade away, right?

[Earlonne Woods]

It'd be November 2028.

[Curtis Fox]

More than a decade. Yeah. 11 years. What was it like to be in there talking about other people going up for parole? And yours was so far in the future, you know?

[Earlonne Woods]

Well, it's a trip. And the one thing I can say about having a life sentence is you kind of compartmentalize certain things, you know what I'm saying? Like, it don't affect you because your mind already know that you don't have a date. And I think what Phil was saying, like, when he said people were hating on him because you had three strikers, people that are in jail for some petty shit that they looking like, bro, you got a double murder. How you going home? And I only rob somebody, and I ain't going to the board for 50 more years. But, you know, different strokes for different folks, you know?

[Curtis Fox]

And don't be bitter at Phil. Be bitter at Phil. Be bitter at the system.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know what I'm saying?

[Curtis Fox]

Any lessons we should take from this episode for the work we're doing now?

[Earlonne Woods]

Just keep Lear hustling, man.

[Curtis Fox]

Yeah, Keep listening.

[Earlonne Woods]

Keep listening in. You're going to hear.

[Curtis Fox]

All right. Thank you.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes. Yes. Time is running out to help us reach our goal of 1,000 donors.

[Nigel Poor]

Every single gift helps us get closer to our goal.

[Earlonne Woods]

Head to earhustlesq.com donate to learn more and make your tax deductible donations. It only takes a minute. And you can even use Venmo.

[Nigel Poor]

That's right. Thank you so much for supporting the show.

[Earlonne Woods]

We appreciate you. Radiotopia

[Nigel Poor]

from prx.