Revisiting “Gold Coats and OGs”

Summary

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Ear Hustle — Revisiting “Gold Coats and OGs” (February 11, 2026)

Main Theme & Episode Purpose

This episode of Ear Hustle revisits one of their classic Season 1 episodes, "Gold Coats and OGs" (originally aired October 11, 2017), examining the reality of growing old inside San Quentin State Prison. Hosts Earlonne Woods and Nigel Poor—joined by fellow Ear Hustle team member Bruce—reflect on what it means to age while incarcerated, the evolution of prison culture for elder prisoners, and the unique role of the "Gold Coats": incarcerated men who care for fellow elderly or sick prisoners. The episode explores hard truths, everyday humor, and the resilience and humanity that exists within prison walls.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Revisit "Gold Coats and OGs"?

• Earlonne highlights the episode as a “sleeper hit” and a personal favorite, offering a more humanitarian view of prison life than people typically expect.
• Featuring Lonnie Morris, a long-time friend of Earlonne’s, the episode provides an insider’s look at how elderly prisoners survive—and help each other survive—inside the system.
  • [02:52] “Today we're going to be listening to an episode out of our first season... it's called Gold Coats and OGs.” — Earlonne Woods

2. Aging Inside: San Quentin’s Elder Population

• The older population of San Quentin is described as unusual but increasingly common. Lonnie Morris, incarcerated since 1978, discusses the difficulty and dread of dying behind bars.
• Earlonne explains the draw of San Quentin for long-term inmates due to its programs and overall safer environment compared to other California prisons.
  • [06:29] “I didn't think I was gonna serve seven years, but I sure didn't think I was gonna serve 40.” — Lonnie Morris
  • [07:38] “I wanted to transfer to San Quentin because of the film program... now I'm into podcasting with you.” — Earlonne Woods

3. The Emotional Cost of Aging & Dying in Prison

• The conversation is candid about the inevitability of death in prison, the fears associated with dying inside, and the harsh, sometimes violent history of San Quentin.
• Lonnie reflects on witnessing countless deaths, from natural causes to stabbings and suicides in earlier, more violent decades.
  • [10:39] “Hundreds that I knew... gunshots, strokes, heart attacks... people burnt up in their cells… Some purposely set on fire.” — Lonnie Morris

4. Changing Prison Culture: From Survival to Support

• Historically, being an “OG” (original gangster) meant surviving the violence long enough to become an elder. Physical strength was critical.
• Now, respect is more often shown for elder prisoners and physical violence has decreased, thanks in part to programs and changing policies (for instance, the removal of weights in California prisons).
  • [15:13] “Old cats was out there lifting... you couldn't afford to be frail and weak.” — Lonnie Morris

5. The “Gold Coats” – Peer Caregivers in Prison

• Gold Coats are inmates who assist disabled or infirm individuals, named for their identifying yellow shirts. Their duties range from cleaning and feeding to providing companionship and ensuring medical care.
• Richard Lathan, a Gold Coat, shares the emotional labor of helping those who don’t want to die alone—or in the hospital. The job serves as both community care and redemption for some, including Richard who wants “to give back.”
  • [17:05] “My position is that I do everything that an inmate needs assistance on… cleaning up scabies, cleaning up feces…” — Richard Lathan
  • [24:12] “Because I was a gang member, so now this is my chance of giving back. So this is how I do it.” — Richard Lathan

6. A Personal Story: Lonnie and His Dying Cellmate

• Lonnie recounts caring for his cellmate “T,” whose health rapidly declined from cancer. Despite efforts, T refuses to go to the hospital and eventually dies, not before tense feelings arise about the necessity of moving him for proper care.
  • [23:25] “I looked in his bed, and it was full of defecation. And I was like, bruh, I’m not... I can’t take care of you, man. Look at this, man. I don’t know what to tell you, but you gotta go.” — Lonnie Morris
  • [33:39] “I done took care of this dude all this damn time, did all this stuff for him. And he gonna say now that I crossed him into the hospital... That was the really difficult part.” — Lonnie Morris

7. Reflection and Vulnerability

• Earlonne and Bruce comment on hearing Lonnie’s vulnerability and tears, noting how such stories highlight the deep humanity that endures in prison and challenge stereotypes.
  • [25:29] “I didn’t know we had Lonnie on there crying… just to show cats' humanity.” — Earlonne Woods

8. Practical Realities: Programs, Transfers, and Getting Out

• The hosts also touch on the obstacles and strategies inmates use to transfer into San Quentin, including Earlonne’s own “nuclear option” of faking depression symptoms for a mental health transfer.
  • [27:44] “I ended up watching maybe 10 Zoloft commercials... I just went in there and just recited all that to the psych.” — Earlonne Woods

9. Broader Themes: Time, Growth, and Aging

• The episode draws connections between the passage of time, changes in prison culture, and the personal growth of those inside.
• Both Earlonne and Nigel note that they’re drawn to stories about time and aging, reflecting their own lives and changing perspectives.
  • [36:53] “We're getting older... I think part of CDCR taking those weights out kind of like made the population get old.” — Earlonne Woods

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [09:11] “For me, my big thought process is that I’m not dying in prison. So I’m not going to think about it.” — Lonnie Morris
• [13:06] “I refuse to die in prison. I don’t care how old I get, I’m gonna make it to the streets.” — Andre Eric Watson
• [17:05] “Cleaning up scabies, cleaning up feces, basically assisting an inmate... making sure they get to their appointments, assisting them if they can't read or write.” — Richard Lathan
• [23:25] “I'm not... I can't take care of you, man. Look at this, man. I don't know what to tell you, but you gotta go. You gotta go to the hospital.” — Lonnie Morris
• [24:12] “Now this is my chance of giving back. So this is how I do it. I figure if I give back to life, then my life would be given back to me.” — Richard Lathan

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:52] — Why revisit “Gold Coats and OGs”; choosing this sleeper hit
• [06:20] — Lonnie Morris on entering prison and perceptions of aging inmates
• [10:39] — The realities of death in prison, then and now
• [13:06] — Andre Eric Watson’s resilience and humor about aging inside
• [15:13] — OGs, strength, and the end of weights in California prisons
• [17:05] — Gold Coats' responsibilities, featuring Richard Lathan
• [23:25] — Lonnie’s personal story of caring for T
• [25:29] — Earlonne on Lonnie’s vulnerability and the humanity of the incarcerated
• [27:44] — Earlonne’s “nuclear option” and his journey to San Quentin
• [33:39] — Lonnie’s emotional struggle caring for his dying friend
• [36:53] — Earlonne on how weight policy changes affected aging in prison

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Flow & Tone

The episode is distinctly conversational, alternating between humor (“The Silver Fox,” [00:38]) and raw, sometimes painful realities. The hosts and contributors break down stigmas by addressing themes of aging, care, loss, and personal growth head-on, with honesty and occasional irreverence.

• [25:29] “I didn’t know we had Lonnie on there crying... to show cats' humanity.” — Earlonne Woods

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Final Thoughts

By revisiting "Gold Coats and OGs," Ear Hustle delivers a moving meditation on aging, humanity, and community inside prison—a place often depicted as devoid of both. The episode’s strength lies in its unflinching look at decline, care, and everyday perseverance among people often overlooked in discussions about criminal justice.

For listeners seeking a true sense of life—and death—inside, this episode is an unforgettable window into resilience, brotherhood, and the unyielding will to survive and be seen.

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Listen to the full episode at Ear Hustle’s website.

Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne so not long ago, I bought these organic corduroy espresso pants for my husband Ricky, who you know.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes, the silver Fox.

[Nigel Poor]

The Silver fox, exactly. I love them. The material is so soft, it really almost feels like velvet. I can't keep my hands off of them.

[Earlonne Woods]

Well, you know, Quince has quality items. You know, their clothing holds up to daily wear and looks good season after season.

[Nigel Poor]

And that looking good season after season is really great for my husband because, you know, I have to keep him looking like that Silver fo. You know what the other cool thing is? I guess this is cool. He and I wear the same size pants.

[Earlonne Woods]

Really?

[Nigel Poor]

Yep. So I can put him on whenever I want.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, so he been styling with Quince this whole time and you've been jacking him for his wardrobe?

[Nigel Poor]

Kind of. Exactly. Exactly.

[Earlonne Woods]

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[Nigel Poor]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Bruce]

Hello, Earlonne.

[Earlonne Woods]

Hey, what's up, Bruce?

[Bruce]

That's how I'm supposed to welcome you to this episode.

[Earlonne Woods]

Well, hello, Bruce. How are you?

[Bruce]

Good. Good to be back in the studio with you. We're jamming this in between roadshow rehearsals. We're about to hit the road in a few days. I don't know.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes.

[Bruce]

Have you ever have everything vacuum sealed, all your clothes and luggage packed?

[Earlonne Woods]

I haven' went to the wash house Yet.

[Bruce]

Yeah. We are in the studio today to do your second round of youf sleeper hits, where an ear hustle team member goes into the ear hustle archives and pulls out an episode that is a favorite of theirs that they want to re listen to, return to and draw more attention to.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. So I got a cool one.

[Bruce]

I'm excited about this one. Tell folks what you wanted to listen to today.

[Earlonne Woods]

So today we're going to be listening to an episode out of our first season. It's episode nine, and it's called Gold Coats and OG and this one first aired October 11, 2017.

[Bruce]

Yeah. And I feel like we return to a lot of our episodes from that first season. There are a lot of classics in there, but this one is talked about a lot. But I haven't listened to it, what, in years.

[Earlonne Woods]

Damn.

[Bruce]

Why'd you choose this one?

[Earlonne Woods]

Well, one. The person that's talking, he's a good friend of mine.

[Bruce]

That's Lonnie Morris.

[Earlonne Woods]

Lonnie Morris.

[Lonnie Morris]

Oh, yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

He's old Lon Morris.

[Bruce]

He's a good friend of ear hustle's. And he's been on since he's been out. Not to give anything away, but he's been on some episodes since he's been out, too. Remember the. When we did on clothing, he was sort of our expert on how inside. Yeah, inside clothing trends and policies changed over the many years he was inside.

[Earlonne Woods]

There's a few episodes I've always, you know, like, it was interesting to do because we got a different side of the. Not just all the crazy shit that goes on in prison, but, you know, some humanitarian that goes on inside of that joint.

[Bruce]

Yeah. What do you remember about kind of arriving at this subject for the episode or making the episode? I know it was back eight years. Eight or nine years.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Back nine years ago. What I do remember about this episode is I'm not sure if they had just came out with them. I think they had been around for a minute, but, you know, they had a part of the population that went through a course and they started wearing these different color tops. You know, our color was like powder blue. And so they had these yellow ones on. And on the back of the yellow ones, it'll say idap worker. You know what I'm saying? And what these guys did where they used to, you know, like wheelchair older individuals around or people that was disabled.

[Bruce]

This was a newer program back then.

[Earlonne Woods]

You think this was a newer program back then. It wasn't that many at San Quentin at that time.

[Bruce]

All right. Well, what we're gonna do is we're gonna listen to the first part of it. We'll come back in at the mid roll talk for a bit, then listen to the second segment and then kind of wrap it up. So you wanna fire this up? This is episode nine, a real classic from the archives. October 11th, 2017. Gold coats and OGs.

[Andre Eric Watson]

Well, who gonna hire a 65 year old man? Oh, excuse me. You gonna sit on the desk?

[Earlonne Woods]

You gonna sit behind the desk?

[Andre Eric Watson]

No, I'm 70 years old. 70 years old, I can sit behind the desk. And I'll tell you something, matter of fact, if I run up on you, I might just knock you for your old lady. They ain't had no problem. Cause I forget your pocket.

[Earlonne Woods]

You are now tuned in to San Quentin's ear hustle from PRX's Radiotopia. The following podcast contain language and content.

[Bruce]

That may not be appropriate for all listeners.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm Earlonne Woods, a prisoner at San Quentin State Prison in California.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm Nigel Poor, a visual artist, and I volunteer at San Quentin.

[Earlonne Woods]

And together we're gonna take you inside.

[Lonnie Morris]

I can't do this. I don't. I can't take care of you, man. You gotta go. You gotta go to the hospital, man. I came to prison in 1978, and when I saw old dudes in prison, I was like, man, how in the hell you in prison at 60 years old? You trippin'. What you do to be in prison at 60 years old?

[Earlonne Woods]

Lonnie Morris is 66 years old. In 1977, he shot and killed a police officer during a jewelry store robbery. His sentence was seven years to life.

[Lonnie Morris]

I didn't think I was gonna serve seven years, but I sure didn't think I was gonna serve 40 because of the nature of my crime. I thought maybe I got him 15, 20 years, something like that.

[Nigel Poor]

Lonnie's been in prison for 40 years, and 35 of those years have been right here in San Quentin. And e, it's pretty unusual for a guy to be here for so long.

[Earlonne Woods]

Very unusual. I mean, most guys have spent a lot of time in other prisons before they get to San Quentin. Usually they come here from a higher security prison. Guys spend years trying to get to San Quentin because of the program.

[Nigel Poor]

And by programming we mean educational opportunities and all the groups that are here.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, they have a lot of self help groups.

[Nigel Poor]

And like Shakespeare, right?

[Earlonne Woods]

You have no More tears, which is a violence prevention group. Criminal Gangs Anonymous, which help criminals and gang members.

[Nigel Poor]

Yoga.

[Earlonne Woods]

You do have yoga. And I Do have to get into yoga.

[Nigel Poor]

And there's also, you know, there's, like, gardening here. Oh, there's that new cooking class.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, Quentin cooks. They have. What is the one coding?

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, they're actually learning how to code. It's amazing. So there are so many opportunities here, and it makes sense that guys want to be here.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. Because I wanted to transfer to San Quentin because of the film program that they had back in the day, and I did that. I got here, and now I'm into podcasting with you.

[Nigel Poor]

I am so glad you made it here.

[Earlonne Woods]

Who you tell?

[Nigel Poor]

How long did it actually take you to get here?

[Earlonne Woods]

It took me roughly about six years to get to San Quentin.

[Nigel Poor]

Man, you were tenacious.

[Earlonne Woods]

I would tell you how I got here, but I'm gonna let that go.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, so all we have to say is, thank God you got here.

[Earlonne Woods]

I got here.

[Nigel Poor]

So when the guys get here, they tend to be on the mature side.

[Earlonne Woods]

What that mean, like, ripe?

[Nigel Poor]

Well, it actually means to me that the population at San Quentin is getting towards middle age and up. I mean, you guys aren't young.

[Earlonne Woods]

I mean, what you mean, not young? Look, they have 18 year olds here. You know, it's a small segment of the people. Segment of the population, should I say? But most of the guys are in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s. And the old guys here face the same health problem that older people face everywhere.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Lonnie Morris]

You know, the body doesn't respond as well as it used to respond. I used to run up the steps. Now walk up and I'm breathing a little harder. So all that stuff, you know, comes to the fore. But I try to take care of.

[Nigel Poor]

Myself, same as on the outside. Guys here try to take care of themselves to put off the inevitable for as long as possible. The inevitable, you know, the thing no one wants to talk about.

[Earlonne Woods]

Okay, okay, I got you.

[Nigel Poor]

Dying.

[Earlonne Woods]

I got you.

[Nigel Poor]

But here's what's different about aging in prison. For Lonnie and a lot of other guys, it's not just sickness and death that they're afraid of.

[Lonnie Morris]

So for me, my big thought process is that I'm not dying in prison. So I'm not going to think about it. I'm not going to take any thought of dying in prison. They put me outside the gate on the sidewalk, and I kill over dead. I'd rather have happened than for me to die in prison. That's one of the things that myself and a lot of guys dread the possibility of that.

[Earlonne Woods]

The truth is, with an aging population, guys do get sick, and they do die in prison. And that's what we're talking about in this episode. How does San Quentin, a community of prisoners, staff, and volunteers, deal with getting old and all that comes with it?

[Nigel Poor]

Hey, Earlonne, Your sentence is 31 years to life. And do you ever think about getting old and maybe even dying in prison?

[Earlonne Woods]

I never really think about that. Like when, you know when you look in the mirror and you see those extra gray hairs popping up?

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, I've seen more of those lately. On you.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. You realize, damn, it's happening. It's happening right in front of me. But I still got a full head of hair, so I'm good with that.

[Nigel Poor]

And you do have that.

[Earlonne Woods]

The Erlon, my brother don't have that.

[Nigel Poor]

I know. He always wears a hat, too.

[Earlonne Woods]

I do have that. But the one thing I don't worry about is getting killed in San Quentin. That wasn't always the case here. Death in San Quentin was not always a natural occurrence. So in your 40 years, how many people do you think you've witnessed die in prison?

[Lonnie Morris]

Hundreds that I knew. And so it's been a lot of people. Gunshots, strokes, heart attacks. Multiple people dying from stabbings. Pneumonia, belly fever, hiv, hepatitis C, suicides. Oh, gang of suicide. Other guys been thrown off tears, Other guys have jumped off tears to their death. Escaping, being stabbed. No. People been strangled to death. People burnt up in their cells. Some purposely set on fire, others that they sell caught on fire and they were burned to death by that. And one of my friends, I literally heard him being stabbed to death, and he was screaming, and we were all locked in our cell. The guy that killed him, locked up in the cell with him at count time and stabbed him 37 times. And you could hear him screaming. Yeah, that was really horrible.

[Nigel Poor]

When was the last time somebody was killed at San Quentin? I can't even remember if there's been a murder since 2011 when I started volunteering here.

[Earlonne Woods]

I think the last murder here probably was in the reception area recently. I don't know.

[Nigel Poor]

I mean, the point is, it's not that common. Right.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's not that common here. But there's nothing like the level of violence that Lonnie experienced a few decades ago. Back then, getting old in prison meant you had survived.

[Lonnie Morris]

When I first came to prison, respect was everything. You didn't disrespect people because back then you could lose your life. Prison was a very serious place, very dangerous place. And stabbings were regular. They were normal procedures. So it wasn't no oh, let's fist fight. Oh, let's talk about it. You was going to get stabbed and good possibility you was going to die because people were stabbing you to kill you. So most of the older guys that were in prison that had survived and were still quote unquote, walking the main line, or what we call OGs were pretty serious guys.

[Nigel Poor]

I used to think OGs meant old guys.

[Earlonne Woods]

Original gangsters. You better not call them old guys.

[Andre Eric Watson]

Nigel the OG in the building. Yeah, talk all they know who I am, the one don't like all the loud music and all that loud romping and romping and all that stuff they doing, you know what I'm saying? They're in your mind.

[Nigel Poor]

Andre Eric Watson has been in prison for 20 years and he's serving a 65 year to life sentence for second degree murder.

[Andre Eric Watson]

First of all, I wanted to be known. I refuse to die in prison. I don't care how old I get, I'm gonna make it to the streets.

[Nigel Poor]

But at the time, Andre is 72 years old. He was recently diagnosed with stage three throat cancer.

[Andre Eric Watson]

We thought you was gonna die, OG. You're losing all that weight. I'm waking up. I said, no, I ain't going nowhere. Because I refused to die in prison. To make a long story short, I went through the treatment and I said, well, I did.

[Earlonne Woods]

He survived. And there are two things that keeps him going in his old age. He loves to talk shit.

[Andre Eric Watson]

It's not that I'm downgrading them all the time, but if they open the door, I'm gonna step in and talk some shit. Simple as that.

[Earlonne Woods]

And there's another thing that keeps him going. The idea of getting out before he dies and finding him a female.

[Nigel Poor]

Give me a personal ad. Now if you were gonna make a personal ad, what would it say?

[Andre Eric Watson]

What would it say? It would say that, listen, I'm a really great guy. I'm elderly, really great and in good shape, you know what I'm saying? Looking for middle age, good shape.

[Earlonne Woods]

So in other words, you want to go to the Boom Boom Room soon as possible.

[Andre Eric Watson]

Soon as possible. Come on, man, 20 years. I mean, it's just like a bike, riding a bicycle. It may be I've been having a bicycle a long time, but I sure know how to get on a ride again. I mean, you know what I'm saying? My phone will fall off. I mean, that's one thing to keep guys like us living, to live through. This is we're looking to get out there, to get in the shallow one more Time. Simple as that.

[Nigel Poor]

Well, I have to say I really hope that he gets back in that saddle before he's too old.

[Earlonne Woods]

Me too. And me too.

[Nigel Poor]

Simple as that.

[Earlonne Woods]

Simple as that. I'm with him on that. But, you know, Andrea is lucky to have survived throat cancer, and he's lucky he didn't grow old in here in the 1980s when this was a very different institution.

[Nigel Poor]

So you didn't see older guys as being frail or not being able to take care of themselves because they weren't as physically strong as the younger guys.

[Lonnie Morris]

Well, you know, it's interesting because back then it wasn't like that. You couldn't afford to be frail and weak and fragile and vulnerable. Old cats was out there lifting, you know, five and six quarters. They 60 years old and they pumping out and got 18 inch arms and 19 inch arms. So everybody had to stay fit. That was part of the regiment.

[Nigel Poor]

They don't have weights at San Quentin anymore?

[Earlonne Woods]

No, they don't have them nowhere in the Department of Corrections. Not unless you like in fire camp or something. But, you know, we all surmised that California took them out of the prisons because the correctional officers couldn't control dudes.

[Lonnie Morris]

Why?

[Nigel Poor]

Cause they were getting so big.

[Earlonne Woods]

They were huge, like dudes walking around with 25 inch arms, like, just like. And you like, hey, get against the wall. You're like, what?

[Nigel Poor]

Intimidating. Intimidating. But hey, I have to say, I see some correctional officers with some pretty big arms on them.

[Earlonne Woods]

But nowadays you don't need 18s on the hang anymore. Things are a lot safer on level twos.

[Nigel Poor]

That's a good distinction when you're talking about level two.

[Earlonne Woods]

Might be different on level four.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, let's get back to that idea of aging in prison. And I want to bring in somebody who makes the process a lot easier.

[Richard Lathan]

My name is Richard Lathan.

[Nigel Poor]

Richard Lathan's a former gang member who's serving a 15 year to life sentence for murder.

[Richard Lathan]

And the job I do is taking care of people.

[Earlonne Woods]

Richard is called a gold coat, which is guys that are employed by custody to assist the medical department. They go get guys who are, I don't want to say incapacitated. I just want to say they have some type of disability. Inmate Disability Assistance program. Yeah, yeah, that's right side DAP worker. That's what we call them. We call them gold coats because the shirts we wear blue shirts, they wear gold shirts which identify them as someone different than us.

[Nigel Poor]

Right. And they can go to different parts of the prison that we can't go to.

[Richard Lathan]

Right. My position is that I do everything that an inmate need assistance on. Going to get his food, cleaning up scabies, cleaning up feces, basically assisting an inmate and when he used the bathroom on himself, making sure they get to their appointments, assisting them if they can't read or write. I basically just sit and wait to be needed, per se.

[Earlonne Woods]

So when you say people that need help, you mean like elderly?

[Richard Lathan]

It could be elderly. It could be people that had operations, guys who have dementia, maybe, or guys who have colostrophy bags. It could be guys mobility impaired or hearing impaired. It could be cancer patients bleeding. Then I have to take them to the hospital, come back, clean the blood up, make sure they cell is clean.

[Nigel Poor]

Richard's kind of an assistant, I would say, in the infirmary.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right.

[Nigel Poor]

But we should make it clear that there are doctors, nurses, and other professional medical staff that work at San Quentin. And guys call it a hospital, but technically it's an infirmary.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, it's a newer infirmary. It's actually called a correctional treatment center. And it was built in 2009.

[Nigel Poor]

Right. It's actually the first built in. Something you see when you walk in through the gate.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right. And it's a new modern. It has like five floors. It's. It's pretty. Pretty fly for a prison, an old prison.

[Nigel Poor]

Have you been there?

[Earlonne Woods]

I've been in there, yes.

[Nigel Poor]

For what?

[Earlonne Woods]

You have to go there for dental. You have to go there for mental health. You have to go there for doctor appointments. I've only been on the fourth floor for filming purposes.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, the dreaded fourth floor.

[Earlonne Woods]

The fourth floor, that's where the guys are really sick. That's where they go. It's the place where a lot of guys don't want to end up.

[Nigel Poor]

Was it depressing when you went up there?

[Earlonne Woods]

Well, I mean, I was just looking at it from the point of view where you just stuck in the cell.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, man. I just imagine it was like a room at a hospital.

[Earlonne Woods]

What are you thinking of? Like some military hospital?

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly.

[Earlonne Woods]

Everybody just laid up next to each other. They can, like, look over, like, hey, what's up, Frank?

[Nigel Poor]

No, that's exactly what I was thinking.

[Earlonne Woods]

You're in a cell.

[Narrator/Announcer]

So.

[Earlonne Woods]

Have you ever noticed guys that didn't want to go, like, to the fourth floor when they're sick because they don't want to be alone or something like that?

[Richard Lathan]

Well, it's been quite a few guys. It's been quite a few guys didn't want to go to the fourth floor because they figured all that they all. They gonna give Them is pills. I said, man, what you gonna do, sit here and die?

[Earlonne Woods]

I think most people are saying scared of being alone. They know once they get up there, there's no more coming down to the yard. There's no more general population. So they're basically isolating themselves. And I think that's what happens.

[Richard Lathan]

That's exactly right. That's what they scared of. There's no more affection, no more individuals looking out for them.

[Lonnie Morris]

About five or six years ago, they put a guy in my cell named T. That was what we called him. But I knew him around the prison before he became my celly. He was a very healthy guy, worked out every day. Before they took the weights, he'd lift weights. After they took the weights, he'd do pull ups and push ups and run the track. So he was kind of like a health nut in terms of working out over like a six month period of time. I watched him deteriorate from this virile man into this person that could not get out of bed on his own accord. And I had to help him get out of bed. I had to bring his food to him sometime. They wanted to put him in the hospital and he refused to go. And so myself and a group of guys that were his friends, we elected to try to take care of him as best we could. And he didn't initially tell me that he had cancer. He was like, ah, man, I got something going on. And then, you know, after some time talking about it and I guess he felt comfortable, he said, man, you know, I got this cancer. He started sleeping a lot and I think that had to do something with the chemo, no appetite, you know, that kind of stuff there. And so I would fix him food, you know, I'd fix those spreads in the cell so we he could eat. He didn't have to go worry about going to chow. And you know, I share my packages with him. Some days he could walk, some days he couldn't walk. To then becoming wheelchair bound. And his thing was, oh man, I ain't going. I don't care what them doctors saying, I ain't going over there. You know, everybody go up in the hospital die, you know what I'm saying? I'm not going out like that and you know, I'm cool and I'll be all right. And I remember waking up one morning and I was on the top bunk and I got ready to get out of bed and he was laying on the floor and I was like. And he was like, I'm all right, excuse me. Excuse me. I'm sorry. I don't know if I can finish this. I didn't think this was going. I wasn't planning on this. Oh, damn, man. He was laying there, man. And I was like, you all right, man? And he was like, I'm all right. And I got down off the bed, and I went to pick him up, and he had just defecated on the floor on himself. And so I had to pick him up out of the defecation and get him in the wheelchair and then get him outside the cell. And. And he kept saying, I'm all right. And I was like, bruh, you not all right, man. You not. I can't do this no more. You got to go to the hospital, man. And he was like, man, I'm all right. I ain't going to the hospital. I'm going to be okay. I can do it. I said, t, you cannot, bruh. Look at the cell. You done defecated all over the floor and in his bed. I looked in his bed, and it was full of defecation. And I was like, bruh, I'm not. I can't do this. I don't. I can't take care of you, man. Look at this, man. I don't know what to tell you, but you gotta go. You gotta go to the hospital, man.

[Nigel Poor]

This took place about six years ago, before San Quentin. Had gold coats like Richard, who could have helped with this situation.

[Earlonne Woods]

So if you get guys that are stubborn or just tired and don't want to come out they cell, what's your position?

[Richard Lathan]

Well, if you tell me you sick, you coming out of there, I'm not gonna let you sit in there. I'm gonna make sense of it. I say, look, when you come in here and you dealing with me, you can't just sit in the cell and die. You're not gonna do that. Cause I'm gonna let em know. I said, you can fight me all you want, but you go into the hospital, you know, and they understand, you know?

[Earlonne Woods]

Nigel. I asked Richard why he spends his time taking care of the sick and the elderly. Because it can't be an easy job.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, man, no.

[Earlonne Woods]

Why do you take that stance?

[Richard Lathan]

Because I was a gang member, so now this is my chance of giving back. So this is how I do it. I figure if I give back to life, then my life would be given back to me. 26 years ago, I did take someone in slots. And with two attempted murders in the process, I was young then, 21 years old then, you know, I'm turning 49 in January. I don't have the same outlook. I don't have the same ideologies. I don't have the same values. Instill street values. No, don't abide by that. You know what I'm saying?

[Earlonne Woods]

Richard's not getting any younger himself, and he's had his own health problems.

[Richard Lathan]

I done had a seizure a couple weeks ago, and the only thing I can think about is taking care of the fellas. It's the only thing I can think about.

[Earlonne Woods]

Like we said, the gold coats weren't around when t was dying. When we come back from the break, we'll hear what Lonnie did. We back on. We back on the record. Bruce.

[Bruce]

Yeah. Welcome back. What's surprising you revisiting it after, I imagine, a few years not hearing it.

[Earlonne Woods]

Well, one, I didn't know we had Lonnie on there crying, you know what I'm saying? I didn't know Lonnie was being all vulnerable and stuff.

[Bruce]

I feel like he's a vulnerable guy. Right. That surprises you?

[Earlonne Woods]

He's a very vulnerable guy. But it was just, you know, to show cats humanity. You just had cats in there that were just taking care of each other. You know what I'm saying? It just wasn't like, oh, fuck, you get it the best way you can.

[Bruce]

Yeah. It probably upends people's expectations about prison in a few ways.

[Earlonne Woods]

Both that.

[Bruce]

I don't know if you think of grandfathers being in prison, but it's more and more of the population. But also there's a job to take care of other incarcerated people.

[Earlonne Woods]

You might see it to this day where it's something going on in the yard where they giving out, let's say, snacks and this, that and the other. And you'll see one of them yellow coat dudes go down there and he has come back with a box of stuff because he got to go pass them out to the people that couldn't get down to that yard.

[Bruce]

Right. It's a really good episode. That's one thing. There's just so many good episodes this first season. It's very deep. Like some of the hearing Lonnie talk about sort of all the ways he's seen people die, remind you of the history of San Quentin and how long he was a part of that history.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right, right. And Lonnie, you know, Lonnie was at San Quentin for 38 years from when.

[Bruce]

It was the roughest security, like late 70s.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right. Late 70s to when it became what it was. And one of the things that came up. It was funny cause I always hear it and I talk about it every blue moon. But in this episode, I talked about how I wanted to be in San Quentin.

[Bruce]

I noticed you skirt over that this time.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, I wanted to transfer to San Quentin. So what I realized is that the prison I was in, which is way in Southern California, would not allow me to transfer from that prison to any other prison. And so I always had this thing I called a nuclear option. The nuclear option was I can go to the psych and say some shit and then I'll be transferred.

[Bruce]

Because they didn't have mental health.

[Earlonne Woods]

They did not have a mental health program. And I knew that. But you don't want to say some shit that's going to stop the parole board from letting you out.

[Bruce]

What'd you tell the psych?

[Earlonne Woods]

I told the psych. So it goes back to Zoloft. I ended up watching maybe 10 Zoloft commercials. They come on late at night and everything the ball was doing on there. You know how the ball be all depressed, can't sleep. I just went in there and just recited all that to the psych. And they felt I was depressed and they put me on depression medication.

[Bruce]

But then they said, you can't get the care that you need here, so we're transferring you to that.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, they said that.

[Bruce]

But it wasn't directly to San Quentin.

[Earlonne Woods]

I asked for San Quentin. They sent me to solitaire. I was there for a couple of weeks and I noticed that they had a sign up, a volunteer sign up list to go to San Quentin. And I signed up and I was at that one prison, Soledad, for 67 days. And I was on my way to San Quentin, the place I wanted to be.

[Bruce]

I like compared because I listened to the first episodes of Ear Hustle a fair amount. You can really tell that you and Nigel have gotten a lot more comfortable on Mike, you know. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the first episodes were good, but you could tell you're a lot more comfortable both with the narration and with the banter and having fun.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of. I think early on there was a lot of stiffness in us, you know what I'm saying? And trying to really get it to where we're, you know, just fluid with it, you know what I'm saying?

[Bruce]

Like, and how'd you do that?

[Nigel Poor]

I don't.

[Earlonne Woods]

It just take time, I think. Yeah, yeah, it just takes time. And I still catch myself where, you know, I put a note in the script like I sound Reedy.

[Lonnie Morris]

Yeah.

[Bruce]

Yeah. I also like this one. Now that, you know, since you've been out, we've started telling stories from a bunch of different places. I like that. This one is really in San Quentin. You know, you just feel like you're really inside. You hear stories from, like, up in the cells. I don't know, it just feels like really of that place. Okay, we're gonna get to that mid roll. We'll come back. Listen to the. It sounds like a pretty short second segment.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's a second segment. Yeah, it's probably like nine minutes, and.

[Bruce]

Then we'll wrap it up.

[Nigel Poor]

Yes.

[Bruce]

Yes.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yay, area. Ear Hustlers.

[Nigel Poor]

We have been teasing a live show in San Francisco for the last few weeks. But until now, we've been quiet on the details.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yep. But now we can spill the beans. Drum roll.

[Nigel Poor]

Tickets for Ear Hustle Live in San Francisco go on sale Wednesday, December 17th at noon Pacific Time at earhustlesq.com we're.

[Earlonne Woods]

So excited to bring our latest live show to our home audience.

[Nigel Poor]

We are going to be at the ACT Tony Rembe Theater, which is a beautiful classic theater in downtown San Francisco. Earlonne, come on. It's gorgeous, right?

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, it is. Tickets are also on sale for dates in Portland, Seattle, and la. And for each outside show we do on this tour. We're planning to do a show inside a nearby prison.

[Nigel Poor]

Get all the [e-mail] and we hope to see you very soon. And Earlonne, we gotta get those LA tickets going. What's up, my friend?

[Earlonne Woods]

We got LA, LA, LA coming through. Watch. You know, LA ain't gonna fail us.

[Nigel Poor]

Cause we don't wanna have a San Francisco LA rivalry, do we?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes, we do. Dodgers and the Giants.

[Nigel Poor]

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp Nige.

[Earlonne Woods]

Valentine's Day is coming up, and you know what that means.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, I do.

[Earlonne Woods]

Flowers, candy, and lots of talk about relationships and dating and expectations.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. How does that make you feel? There's a lot of pressure to show that not only are you in a relationship, but that it's a perfect relationship.

[Earlonne Woods]

But, you know, I don't think anyone's love life is perfect. No, I think we're all just figuring it out.

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly. And that's where therapy comes in. Because whether you're married or dating or just focusing on you, therapy can help you see more clearly where you want to be.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. Sometimes you need someone outside the relationship to help identify what's weighing things down and help you and your partner find.

[Nigel Poor]

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[Earlonne Woods]

And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a session. And that's based on almost 2 million client reviews.

[Nigel Poor]

Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com earhustle. That's betterhelp.com/ear hustle. Earlonne. We are well into 2026, but I've got to admit, I am still reminiscing about that nice long holiday break.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, I got to do some traveling, which was cool, you know, but I also spend time hanging with my family, and that's got me thinking about the future.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, I mean, financial planning is a big part of what I talk about these days with my siblings and my parents who are aging. And, you know, I've also got a grandson, too, and I really want to make sure that everybody is ok. A lot of responsibility.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, I hear you, Nige. Something I think about is life insurance. Like making sure if something happens to me, my loved ones get taken care of.

[Nigel Poor]

Luckily, there's an online insurance marketplace called PolicyGenius that can help with financial planning. It lets you compare insurance quotes side by side for free, which is great because it is so confusing.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. PolicyGenius is a platform where consumers can compare options from top insurance carriers, get expert advice, buy policies, and manage their insurance portfolio.

[Nigel Poor]

Plan the year knowing you've protected what you built. With Policygenius, real users have gotten 20 year $2 million policies for just $53 a month. Head to Policygenius.com to compare life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you could save.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's policygenius.com.

[Nigel Poor]

So T is dying in his cell, but he refuses to go to the hospital. And Lonnie Hiseli is having a really hard time with it.

[Lonnie Morris]

I can't do it. He has to go. And I told him that. And they came and got him and they took him to the hospital. And when he got up to the hospital, he told dudes, ah, man, Lonnie sold me out. Called the medical people on me and had me sent over here to the hospital. I don't need to be over here. And he was complaining. And I was very, very, very angry. I was incensed. I was like, I'll be damned. I done took care of this dude all this damn time, did all this stuff for him. And he gonna say now that I crossed him into the hospital, what the hell am I supposed to do? So I was just really angry. About that. And I remember sending word up there and I felt bad after I did. Cause this man is dying, you know. But my anger got the best of me. I said, well, man, you tell T to go to hell, bro. You know, he's a damn underappreciated dude that after all I done, he gonna send word out here that I sold him out. I said, that's bs, you know, And I was cussing, and I'm not trying not to cuss right now. But anyway, that was the really difficult part, was that this is the way the relationship, you know, kind of ended. He stayed up in the house with a month or two, and then he died. So they, you know, obviously they came and told me he had died and all that. And then we had a memorial service for him, you know, went to that and, you know. Yeah, yeah.

[Richard Lathan]

Wow.

[Bruce]

You blink and you missed that second segment. I wonder why we cut it there.

[Earlonne Woods]

I have no idea.

[Bruce]

I still can't imagine what it was like to produce this thing. But you were so cut off from a lot of it, you know, like, you kind of knew in theory that there were tons of people listening, but you couldn't see really any evidence of that.

[Earlonne Woods]

So I think when I really started to pay attention to how Ear Hustle was performing in society, it was through the tours that Lieutenant Robinson used to do, and now Lieutenant Berry does them. But the tours, I'm telling you, the tours used to always come into the prison. They'd do their tour around the prison, they'd come over to the education area, they'd go over to the newsroom side, talk to them, and then they'd leave.

[Bruce]

Ah, yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

And then Ear Hustle hit. Ear Hustle was the main attraction for the tour.

[Bruce]

Was there ever a time when you thought you might grow old in prison?

[Earlonne Woods]

So me, outside of Ear Hustle, I was in prison trying to change the law, Trying to change California three strikes law with an initiative. And that's how I thought I was gonna get out of prison. You know, Ear Hustle, I ain't think nothing about that.

[Bruce]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

But I thought that I was gonna get out of by changing the law and then free 50,000 other people. You couldn't tell me it wasn't gonna happen, you know what I'm saying?

[Bruce]

It's interesting that, you know, Nigel, we did her second sleeper a few weeks ago, and she chose Sabretooth Cat. Also all about kind of spending many years behind bars and how you reconcile yourself and make a life based on that. So you guys are both zeroing in on Episodes that deal with the passage of time in prison.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah.

[Bruce]

Why are you guys both thinking about episodes? About aging?

[Earlonne Woods]

We're getting older. The one thing that I think is missing out of, I think Lonnie had talked about how, you know, back then, you know, 60 year old dudes was buff, like they were working out, doing all they stuff. I think part of CDCR taking those weights out kind of like made the population get old.

[Bruce]

Right.

[Earlonne Woods]

And frail.

[Bruce]

Keeping strength and muscle up is pretty key to.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's key to life, to living. You know what I'm saying? But again, they were on some. Oh, these guys are too big for our staff. You know, that's what it was. The staff need to start working out.

[Bruce]

I'm just saying, you know, I meant to ask, you mentioned early on you've been meaning to get into the yoga that they do in prison. Did you ever do it inside?

[Earlonne Woods]

I was in yoga. My favorite shit. You might know the term. What's the last thing you do?

[Bruce]

Yeah, like the child's pose. Is that what it is?

[Earlonne Woods]

It's the pose. You just lay down and you just like, you just go to sleep in that pose. Something like that.

[Bruce]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, something like that.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know what I'm saying? That was my favorite time of your.

[Bruce]

Moment of Zen after Man, that was my favorite after a workout. Well, thank you for returning us to this one. I'm glad to revisit it. Yes, yes, thanksy.

[Earlonne Woods]

Thank you.

[Nigel Poor]

Thanks to Lonnie Morris for sharing his story.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, that was a hard one. Thanks also to Richard for coming onto the podcast and explaining what a gold coat does. Keep up the good work, Richard, but also take care of yourself. Our sound designer is Antwan Williams. Pat Mesiti Miller is our outside production advisor. Our story editor is Curtis Fox, and our executive producer for Radiotopia is Julie Shapiro.

[Nigel Poor]

We also want to thank Warden Ron Davis and as you know, every episode has to be approved by this guy here.

[Lonnie Morris]

I am, Lieutenant Sam Robinson, the public information officer at San Quentin State Prison, and I approve this story.

[Earlonne Woods]

Next time on Ear Hustle, our final episode of the season. It's about getting out of prison the right way, in the wrong way. I didn't really know if I was going to make it, but I had put so much effort into it and I had planned it and I had to ask myself, you talk a good story, I'll see if you're going to follow through.

[Nigel Poor]

Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia from prx, a collection of the best podcasts around Radiotopia is made possible with support from the Knight Foundation. Hear more at Radiotopia fm.

[Earlonne Woods]

Please follow us on Twitter and Instagram earhustlesq. And for more information on all things Ear Hustle, go to our website earhustlesq.com Nigel has been telling me about all those iTunes reviews and thank you. Thank you for all the positive reviews. We appreciate that. So for Sarah Koenig and Earlonne Woods, I'm not.

[Nigel Poor]

Wait a minute. I do not sound like Sarah Koenigk. I don't care what people say.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's a compliment.

[Nigel Poor]

I know, but I just don't hear it.

[Andre Eric Watson]

No. Me pimping on the deal. I can't stop him. He mackin and pimpin every time I see him. You guys go to sleep and dream about and wake up and think the game is real. That ain't game, that's dream.

[Nigel Poor]

And thanks to Andre Eric Watson for popping into our studio and talking some shit.

[Andre Eric Watson]

When I started talking to you, you started sharpening me up on different things. But well, it must not be taken because as long as I've been trying to sharpen you up, you're still dull.

[Earlonne Woods]

On the real, though. I'm Earlonne Woods.

[Nigel Poor]

And I'm Nigel Poor. Thanks for listening.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Museums are more than places we visit on a field trip across the country. Museums protect our shared history, care for wildlife and collections, strengthen local economies, support job training, and spark curiosity in people of all ages. Right now, you can help make sure museums stay strong for future generations. Museum Advocacy Day is a national moment when people contact Congress to ask for continued support for museums and the federal agencies that fund them. Learn how to take [e-mail] and tell your representatives that museums matter to education, to communities, to the economy, and to our democracy.

[Earlonne Woods]

Radiotopia.

[Nigel Poor]

From PRX.