Slam That Door

Summary

Ear Hustle: "Slam That Door" Episode Summary

Released: April 2, 2025

Hosts: Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods
Produced by: Ear Hustle & Radiotopia

---

Introduction

In the episode titled "Slam That Door," hosts Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods delve into the profound experiences of four men—Steve Crittenden, Cujo, Shaka, and Vo—who spent significant years on death row at San Quentin State Prison. This episode provides an intimate exploration of their lives during and after death row, offering listeners a raw and unfiltered glimpse into the realities of long-term incarceration and the complexities of transitioning back into the general prison population.

---

Life on Death Row

Segregation and Isolation

San Quentin's death row, now closed, was depicted as a highly segregated environment, distinctly separate from the main prison population. The hosts describe it as "a prison within a prison," emphasizing the isolation and heightened security that defined the inmates' daily lives.

• Nigel Poor (02:32): "These days, San Quentin's death row is closed, but when it was open, it was really like a prison within a prison, totally separate from the rest of the population."

Daily Realities and Coping Mechanisms

The men recount the rigid protocols they faced, such as being shackled during escorts and the constant threat of violence from other inmates. This environment fostered a unique bond among them, akin to "brothers in war."

• Shaka (03:50): "We made it. We made it our death block."

Emotional Impact

Steve Crittenden shared the emotional toll of being perceived as dangerous, leading to feelings of shame and isolation.

• Steve Crittenden (03:38): "They made me feel like I was such a dangerous individual."

Similarly, Vo expressed deep remorse and guilt over his actions and their ripple effects on the victims' families.

• Vo (34:56): "I think that stems from the victim's family. I don't want to say anything that's going to upset them."

---

Transition Out of Death Row

Closure of Death Row

In 2016, San Quentin's death row was shut down, leading to the integration of its inmates into the general prison population. This transition marked a significant shift in their daily lives, allowing them more freedom, such as walking in the yard without handcuffs.

• Nigel Poor (04:59): "In 2016, the laws changed and it took a while, but death row as San Quentin has now been shut down and everyone has moved out."

Experiencing the Yard Again

Shaka reminisced about his first time back in the yard after 29 years, highlighting the surreal experience of feeling grass beneath his fingers.

• Shaka (05:33): "I put my finger in there. Pick up the grass. It was just amazing."

Cujo shared his continued emotional responses to the yard's environment, even adopting coping behaviors instinctively.

• Cujo (07:52): "Just raising my arms as if they're shackles... I catch myself sometimes raising my arms to my waist."

Adjusting to New Realities

The integration presented challenges as the men navigated new freedoms and the remnants of their long-term incarceration affected their behaviors and interactions.

• Steve Crittenden (07:46): "To this day, if I'm not carrying anything, I still do this even now after 37, 38."

---

Relationships and Bonds

Friendships Formed in Confinement

The close-knit relationships among the four men stemmed from shared experiences and mutual support during their time on death row.

• Shaka (40:35): "I see a lot of good in Steve. It's just sometimes he beat himself up a lot, and I've been where I beat myself up, so I'm coming out."

Impact of Executions on Bonds

Cujo recounted the emotional devastation of witnessing the execution of his close friend Robert Harris, highlighting the profound sense of loss and the personal impact of state-sanctioned death.

• Cujo (20:11): "It was heartbreaking. And I felt like I lost a family member."

Supporting Each Other Post-Transition

The episode underscores the enduring support system among the men, even as they adapt to life outside death row, fostering resilience and mutual care.

• Steve Crittenden (43:33): "There is someone. He's here. And we do care about each other. For complete transparency's sake."

---

Dealing with Boredom and Coping Mechanisms

Hobbies and Pastimes

To combat the monotony of long-term incarceration, the men engaged in various activities. Shaka found solace in crocheting, creating stuffed animals and beanies, while Cujo took pleasure in observing the prison's animal population.

• Shaka (21:55): "Actually, on death row, there is a hobby program, and I crochet for 18 years."
• Cujo (22:42): "They got a bunch of cats...it was kind of like a little TV show. Little nature show."

Coping with Isolation

Steve Crittenden expressed his yearning for simple pleasures and normalcy post-release, such as fishing and gardening, illustrating the deep-seated desires for a life beyond prison walls.

• Steve Crittenden (26:08): "A dog in the backyard... I look forward to getting my hands dirty in the garden."

---

Reflections on the Death Penalty

Opposition and Ethical Considerations

All four men expressed strong opposition to the death penalty, sharing their personal experiences as a testament to its moral and psychological ramifications.

• Vo (44:29): "Absolutely."
• Cujo (44:30): "Absolutely."

Personal Transformation and Guilt

Vo, in particular, grappled with immense guilt over his actions, reflecting on the irreversible impact on victims' families and his own sense of self.

• Vo (35:35): "The victims weigh heavily, heavily on me. I don't think I'll ever be the same."

Moral Dilemmas and Justifications

Shaka and Steve touched upon the complexities of justice, debating the rightness of executions and the personal desensitization that occurs within the prison system.

• Steve Crittenden (46:10): "If you believe that there are some people that deserve to be executed, say so, bro."
• Shaka (46:22): "Yeah. I mean, I'm still not 100% sold, you know?"

---

Conclusion and Insights

"Slam That Door" serves as a poignant narrative of redemption, resilience, and the profound psychological impacts of death row incarceration. The men's stories illuminate the human capacity for change and the enduring effects of long-term isolation and the death penalty. Through their candid reflections, the episode challenges listeners to reconsider the ethical implications of capital punishment and the rehabilitation potential within the prison system.

Notable Quotes:

• Shaka (05:33): "I put my finger in there. Pick up the grass. It was just amazing."
• Vo (34:56): "I think that stems from the victim's family. I don't want to say anything that's going to upset them."
• Cujo (20:11): "It was heartbreaking. And I felt like I lost a family member."
• Steve Crittenden (26:08): "A dog in the backyard... I look forward to getting my hands dirty in the garden."
• Vo (35:35): "The victims weigh heavily, heavily on me. I don't think I'll ever be the same."

---

Final Thoughts

Through "Slam That Door," Ear Hustle continues its mission to humanize the prison experience, fostering empathy and understanding among its listeners. By highlighting individual stories within the broader context of the criminal justice system, the episode invites a deeper conversation about punishment, redemption, and the human spirit.

---

For more episodes and information, visit earhustlesq.com or follow Ear Hustle on Radiotopia.

Transcript

[NPR Host]

A lot of short daily news podcasts focus on just one story, but right now you probably need more on. Up first from NPR. We bring you three of the world's top headlines every day in under 15 minutes. Because no one story can capture all that's happening in this big crazy world of ours on any given morning. Listen now to the upverse podcast from npr.

[Earlonne Woods]

This episode of Ear Hustle is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash?

[Earlonne Woods]

Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Nigel Poor]

Hi, it's Eliza Hirsch. The following episode of Ear Hustle contains language and content that may not be appropriate for all listeners. There's also a brief mention of suicide. Listener discretion is advised. Do you think that the four of you have some kind of connection that other people don't have?

[Cujo]

Oh, yeah.

[Shaka]

We've been through a place where, like, a lot of these guys on the Main Line has never been. We're like brothers in war. We went to somewhere where no one been. I turned like, remember that time?

[Cujo]

This.

[Shaka]

And we could understand each other.

[Steve Crittenden]

We lived through our deaths.

[Shaka]

We made it. We made it our death block.

[Earlonne Woods]

Recently, we sat down with four guys who spent a lot of years on death row at San Quentin.

[Nigel Poor]

They sure did. So there was Steve, who used to go by Cricket. He was on death row for how long?

[Earlonne Woods]

35 years.

[Nigel Poor]

35 years, right. And then Cujo was about almost 26 years.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right. Vo was 29 years. And Shaka spent 42 years on the row.

[Nigel Poor]

Today on the show, what it's like to spend decades on death row and then get off it. I'm Nigel Poor.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm Earlonne woods, and this is ear hustle from PRX's Radiotopia.

[Nigel Poor]

These days, San Quentin's death row is closed, but when it was open, it was really like a prison within a prison, totally separate from the rest of the population.

[Earlonne Woods]

And the only time those of us who was on the Main Line would see guys on death row was when they were being escorted out to medical or something like that.

[Nigel Poor]

And they would be shackled.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right?

[Nigel Poor]

Right. And then when they were walking by, you'd hear someone yell, and then you had to do this weird thing.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right. They wanted you to turn away from them and face the wall.

[Nigel Poor]

And I always did it Earlonne. And I don't even know why I did.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know, some of These guys were notorious. And other people in the prison, they may have it out for them.

[Nigel Poor]

Right?

[Earlonne Woods]

So anytime they left the row, they were in danger of being attacked.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay?

[Earlonne Woods]

And since they're handcuffed and their ankles are shackled, they wouldn't be able to defend themselves. So making everyone turn around and face the wall is like a way of protecting them. What was it like when you were getting escorted across San Quentin yard and people had to turn their back to y'all?

[Steve Crittenden]

They made me feel like I was such a dangerous individual.

[Vo]

I felt shame, guilt, embarrassed, being judged.

[Shaka]

You know, I mean, I didn't like that because, like, you walk in, they go escort, and everybody's looking at you, they're pointing at you and me, you know, like, I kind of like Charles Ng.

[Earlonne Woods]

We just heard from Shaka Steve and then Vo. Vo's the guy who worried about being mistaken for Charles Ng.

[Nigel Poor]

Because Charles Ng was a serial killer, like, one of the worst in California history. And everyone knew who he was because his case was so high profile.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, he's one of those guys who people wanted to deal with. And it could have been for a couple of reasons. One could be just based on principles of, you know, you did some fucked up shit and we finna deal with you for that. Two could have been like, you know, I wanna be somebody. You know, I wanna make a name in the prison system, you know, so they attack him for that reason. You want your own notoriety, I want my own notoriety. So I'm gonna flight you because I know I'm gonna get put in the media that Earlonne Wood stabbed up Ing.

[Shaka]

There's always one dipshit that goes, hey, that's Charles Eng. It's like, oh, fuck, someone's gonna jump me. You know, I'm not Charles Ng.

[Nigel Poor]

So that's what these guys were used to for decades. Then that all changed.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yep. In 2016, the laws changed and it took a while, but death row as San Quentin has now been shut down and everyone has moved out.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, and we talked about this a bit in previous episodes, so we probably don't need to get into it now. But the important thing is that these four guys, Vo, Cujo, Shaka and Steve, are now living with the main prison population at San Quentin.

[Earlonne Woods]

Living in the same housing units, going to the same yard, and doing what everyone else is doing. What was it like going to a mainline with no handcuffs?

[Shaka]

I mean, I remember I haven't touched grass in 29 years. And the first time we went to the yard, I put my finger in there. Pick up the grass. It was just amazing.

[Vo]

You know, I got a ducat to go to dinner.

[Earlonne Woods]

This is Steve.

[Vo]

And I was getting upset.

[Earlonne Woods]

Man, you gonna take me?

[Vo]

He said, no, you gonna take your own black ass down there. And it was new to me.

[Steve Crittenden]

He used to be an escort.

[Shaka]

I remember when they popped my door for medical. They go, you walk out that door, you go, turn left. I was like, I ain't going nowhere because you're telling me to walk through a door. And, you know, I'm not used to that. I had to wait for other people to go. And I'll, you know, walk out slowly and, like, is this cool? Okay, first of all, we're not cuffed. There's no escort, and we can just walk. Seriously.

[Nigel Poor]

What about the first time you went to chow hall?

[Vo]

Surreal.

[Nigel Poor]

Can you describe that?

[Shaka]

Yeah, it was wild, because I remember they go, like, just follow these guys into chow hall. And I'm going, like, after 29 years being fed through the tray slot, you're waiting and, like, is there a spoon? Do I have to pick up spoon, dude? You know, like, there was a little stress. Like. Like, what do I do? Because I've never been to a child before. And you're just waiting in line, and everyone's just, like, bored, and you're just like, the anxiety, you know, like, how do I hold this trade? Like, where do I go? And, you know, is there? Yeah. I've done 29 years here, but I was like, like. Like a rookie, like a newbie.

[Cujo]

I'm standing at the door and I saw people walking by. What's going on?

[Earlonne Woods]

This is Cujo.

[Cujo]

And people still going by really fast, real fast. And I thought they was running. Either running from something or going to something. Put my back against the wall. And I thought doing, like. I didn't know what was happening. They was walking so fast like that. The officer said, oh, oh, gee. One of them knew where I came from. Said, calm down. They just go on the chow.

[Shaka]

I'm more comfortable in the cell eating than out there. When I'm there, I'll eat, like, one or two things, but I put everything in a bowl and take it back to my cell and eat it.

[Cujo]

To this day, if I'm not carrying anything, I still do this even now after 37, 38.

[Nigel Poor]

So can you describe that? Because it's audio. What were you just doing?

[Cujo]

Just raising my arms as if they're shackles, as though the waist chains are still around my waist. I catch myself sometimes raising my arms to my waist. Like, I got the chains on.

[Nigel Poor]

Is there anything any of you miss from death row?

[Steve Crittenden]

A couple officers that worked in there. If I got out, I would have bought a dinner. But other than that, though, I don't miss the haircuts. I don't miss the isolation.

[Nigel Poor]

Look at Beau. He's really thinking.

[Cujo]

Hmm.

[Shaka]

I'm just at this stage in my life now where, because of my experience is who I am today, and I feel so much stronger today. I'm not scared of death, even though I'm still in prison. Just getting out there was just 29 years there, you know, it was. I'm at peace. I mean, I lost a lot of years, but I'm good.

[Steve Crittenden]

That's what I was trying to say. At peace with self.

[Shaka]

Yeah. A lot of guys out there, you know, they're walking around, they complain about stuff, and it's like, dude, you just don't understand. I'm just so grateful to be here. Even though it's prison level two, it took that experience to make me understand what I have now.

[Nigel Poor]

Death row's empty now, right? Everybody's moved out, and they're currently. What do we say, like, renovating it and turning it actually into an honor dorm.

[Earlonne Woods]

They're gentrifying it.

[Nigel Poor]

Yes, they are gentrifying death row, and it might actually turn into a place where the residents of San Quentin actually really want to be.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, they want to be on the row, huh?

[Nigel Poor]

Yep, the honor row.

[Earlonne Woods]

But until that happens, the place is empty. We'd asked Vo Shaka, Kujo, and Steve if they would go back to east block one last time with us so we could, like, see it through their eyes. Like, what was it like to live there for so many years?

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. This is what we were hoping to do today, and I want to know if you're okay with this. We were going to actually go with each of you to your cell and talk to you about what life was like when you were in there. Is that too much for any of you to do?

[Vo]

No, I'll be all right.

[Nigel Poor]

You're okay, Steve, right? Okay. You definitely look nervous.

[Vo]

I am, but I'll be all right.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. All right. So if at any point it's too much, let us know.

[Steve Crittenden]

Right up over the door, they had condemned.

[Cujo]

They had east block, condemned row.

[Steve Crittenden]

They painted over that. But for those that was there, we know what it is. We know what's under that paint.

[Cujo]

Yes, there they did. There was a big old sign up there. Peyton said, east block, condemned row.

[Nigel Poor]

Any thoughts before we actually go in?

[Vo]

No, nothing.

[Earlonne Woods]

For me, there was A real heaviness to Steve as he walked into this building again.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, I think we all thought he was gonna bolt. But the other guys rallied around him and encouraged him to keep going.

[Steve Crittenden]

Don't worry, I'll push him in. I ain't gonna let him turn around.

[Earlonne Woods]

That part is over with. Look that part over with. It.

[Vo]

I'm fine.

[Earlonne Woods]

We just visit abnormal part.

[Steve Crittenden]

It's just a visit. That's it. I don't know how many times I walked up and down that stair.

[Vo]

Been a long time.

[Earlonne Woods]

So death row looks pretty similar to the other housing units at San quentin. You know, five tiers, a line of cells, you know, maybe 50 cells on each tier or something.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, if you didn't know it was death row, it wouldn't know that.

[Earlonne Woods]

I mean, it looked a little more secure than the rest of the units.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay, you're right about that. Because I remember there were also on the ground floor, this row of cages that are about the size of a phone booth, if people know what that is.

[Earlonne Woods]

Those metal cages are used as holding cells.

[Steve Crittenden]

I can't even begin to tell you how many times I stood in the cages. Whenever you went on a visit, whenever you went to medical, came down for an interview, they put you in the cages. People would urinate in the cages because officers wouldn't take them back to their cell.

[Nigel Poor]

As we were walking across the first tier, Cujo pointed out this big square outline in the middle of the floor.

[Cujo]

That was a death watch cell back there.

[Vo]

Yep.

[Cujo]

So if you got an execution date, they would put you in one of those two cells that was caged off, and they were shut it off from the rest of the tier. And the officer would sit out here with a gun. You know, it was all caged off. If you got an execution date, have to have a death watch cell. This was it.

[Nigel Poor]

How many people were executed?

[Cujo]

13.

[Earlonne Woods]

So we started walking into the cells, and they're pretty much like regular San Quentin cells. You know, toilet, sink, bunk shelf.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, except it's a one level bunk. There's just one.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, and that's it. And that makes a lot of difference too.

[Nigel Poor]

The guys are single cell status all along?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, they get to kick back live alone. And the first sale we stopped by was shockers.

[Nigel Poor]

Shaka. Just. Can you describe where we are?

[Steve Crittenden]

Old stuffing grounds.

[Nigel Poor]

How long did you live in this cell?

[Steve Crittenden]

From 91 till 20. 22. What's that? 30 years.

[Nigel Poor]

30 years.

[Earlonne Woods]

How old were you when you walked into this cell for the first time?

[Steve Crittenden]

I was 31.

[Earlonne Woods]

31. And how old were you when you walked out of it?

[Steve Crittenden]

I was 63, 62.

[Nigel Poor]

Next up was Steve's cell. And when we got there, at first he didn't go in. He just stood out in front for a while.

[Earlonne Woods]

3E y 5 and how long you.

[Vo]

Spent up in here all together? 35 years. Oh man. A lot of trepidation. I'm not scared, but I have this foreboding thing in my back of my head that it ain't cool.

[Nigel Poor]

Are you sorry you agreed to do this?

[Vo]

No, it would be therapeutic for me.

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne, do you remember this? We were standing in front of his cell and Steve was just quietly praying to himself, like literally praying that the cell door wouldn't open.

[Vo]

Please be locked.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes, but it opened.

[Nigel Poor]

What is that?

[Vo]

Oh man. Let's get this old way so we can get out of here.

[Earlonne Woods]

How did you decorate this place to make it comfortable?

[Vo]

I painted it here, but I didn't keep no pictures, photographs, none of that.

[Nigel Poor]

Nothing. Why?

[Vo]

Too hard? Hard reminded me of my family too much.

[Earlonne Woods]

Steve was a young guy when he came to prison and this was his first crime. He didn't know anything about prison life?

[Nigel Poor]

No. So you were in your 20s?

[Vo]

No, 19.

[Nigel Poor]

You were 19?

[Vo]

Three months removed from my 18th birthday.

[Nigel Poor]

Can you describe the kind of what you were like if I met you?

[Vo]

What I was like? I don't even remember that person no more. I was a happy, good looking kid who was on a football scholarship. Threw it all away.

[Nigel Poor]

On death row. Guys spend almost all of their time in their cells, but once a day they could go out and get some exercise in this special yard.

[Earlonne Woods]

A lot of shit went down on them yards, you know, this is back in the day, back in the 80s, you know what I'm saying? When San Quentin was Rah rah.

[Nigel Poor]

And one of the most famous people on death row at that time was this guy named Tookie Williams.

[Earlonne Woods]

Stanley Tookie Williams. He was one of the founders of the Crips.

[Vo]

First day here, first day, go to yard with Took. And it was the that Fee did that to him. I was shocked. I was 19 years old. What the hell is going on here? I thought he was playing.

[Nigel Poor]

So it's a little hard to hear, but what Steve is saying here is that his first day in the yard, this guy named Fee came up and stabbed Tookie. I mean, Tookie was sitting right next to him and he stabbed him in the head.

[Vo]

I'm like, what the hell? What the hell going on here? And then I grew up.

[Nigel Poor]

What changed in you?

[Vo]

Came hardened, right Here in my heart, I can still picture that.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you remember coming back to your cell after that? Mm.

[Vo]

A cry. I had never seen that.

[Cujo]

I had gotten close to Robert Harris. They put us next to each other.

[Earlonne Woods]

This is Cujo when he got to death row. There had been no executions in California for 25 years.

[Nigel Poor]

But in 1992, they started up again with the execution of Robert Altenheim, who was a neighbor of Cujo's on death row.

[Cujo]

We used to have conversations with each other and play Battleship. I said, battleship? What's that? You know the game? Yes. That's all he did.

[Earlonne Woods]

Battleship is kind of the perfect game for death row because you don't have to be able to see each other.

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly. So you just have to call out coordinates like A7, B3.

[Cujo]

Almost like chess. Same kind of way, you know, and he would have E1 or E2, whatever, you know. And, yeah, I caught him a few times cheating and he called and vice versa once I learned the game. And one of my favorite pastime, they sink my Battleship.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, my God. That game was so popular when I was a kid.

[Cujo]

I remember it, too. The real game. And he was really good at playing chess, especially from afar like that.

[Nigel Poor]

But he was good at playing chess, but he liked to play Battleship.

[Cujo]

Battleship. He was like a big kid at heart. Everybody loved him. Everybody loved Robert Harrison. And he kept saying all along, I, I'm going to be the first one to be executed. They want me first. They're not going to kill anybody until they get me first. I'm thinking he's just talking. But it was true for political reasons.

[Nigel Poor]

Have you heard this theory that the reason the state wanted to kill Alton Harris first after the long moratorium on executions was because he was a white guy and they were trying to make the point that it wasn't being applied in a racist manner, that they weren't going to just execute black guys.

[Earlonne Woods]

I can't see that having a place in the conversation because I don't think they gave a shit. You know, maybe he just exhausted all his pills first because once you exhaust your appeals, it's over.

[Cujo]

I said, wow, this is real. You know, he has my best friend.

[Nigel Poor]

What was it like for you when he went on death crash?

[Cujo]

It was heartbreaking. And I felt like I lost a family member.

[Nigel Poor]

Did you get to say goodbye?

[Cujo]

Well. Well, yes, I did. A day or two before, and they wouldn't let him. He came down. They weren't supposed to, but they knew how close we were and they walked with him down the tier and just, you know, say goodbye to me.

[Nigel Poor]

What is that like?

[Cujo]

It was. I cried.

[Nigel Poor]

Was he scared?

[Cujo]

He wasn't. I mean, that's what bothered me in a sense, too. He was more concerned about us, you know, how we felt, you know. You okay? I'm good, man. Don't worry about me. A lot of people were sending him money from all over the world for interviews. You know, first person to be executed, lots of money. So he was buying people who didn't have family members taking care of them or something, tv, whatever it was. And his last thing was he wanted everybody to have a pint of black walnut ice cream. That's never happened. Everybody. Everybody that was on death row at that time got a pint of ice cream.

[Nigel Poor]

Did you get one?

[Cujo]

Yeah. Everybody? Yep.

[Nigel Poor]

What did you do while you were eating?

[Cujo]

Took me a while. It melted before I actually started eating it. But I ate it anyway as a kind of a salute to him.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. Did you think about him?

[Cujo]

I did. That was his favorite ice cream, and turns out that was my second favorite.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you remember the last thing he said to you?

[Cujo]

He said, just stay strong. Everything will be all right. And I'll see you in the next life.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. I'm curious. I know there's horrible things about being on death row. Is boredom also part of it?

[Shaka]

Absolutely.

[Nigel Poor]

Here's Vo. How do you deal with the boredom of it?

[Shaka]

Actually, on death row, there is a hobby program, and I crochet for 18 years. Really good at it, too.

[Nigel Poor]

Wait, like, what kinds of things did you make?

[Shaka]

Because of my niece and nephew, I was really good with stuffed animals. I used to, like, make scarf beanies. My niece loved Minions, so I'm really good at Minions.

[Cujo]

I had some good moments down here, and I say that when I first came here, they had a rodent problem. They couldn't spray in here to get rid of rodents.

[Nigel Poor]

Cujo told us that he lived on the first floor, and sometimes critters would wander in from the outside.

[Earlonne Woods]

It was kind of like a, you know, a little TV show. Little nature show.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cujo]

So they got a bunch of cats. Seriously, I kid you not. They had probably 50 cats running around of different sizes and ages. The ones that were the hunters were the younger cats. Every once in a while, birds. The windows were broken out. They would take a chance. If you throw some bread out or whatever, they would take a chance of swooping down, trying to eat the crumbs. Whatever you threw out there. Them baby cats will be against the wall in packs like the lions on the shores of the Serengeti. They rush out there and jump up in there, and they catch the bird. They have to eat it really fast because the birds bigger cats would come and take it.

[Earlonne Woods]

So y'all had a cool little national geographic hub going on.

[Cujo]

Exactly.

[Vo]

Got married six times.

[Earlonne Woods]

Okay, so some guys on death row crochet.

[Nigel Poor]

Yep. And some guys watch wildlife.

[Earlonne Woods]

And Steve gets married six times.

[Vo]

My first one was my heart. And all the rest were just because my family wasn't here.

[Cujo]

Just.

[Vo]

Loneliness.

[Nigel Poor]

And how'd you meet them ads?

[Vo]

They didn't have any Internet back then, Right, Right.

[Nigel Poor]

Like newspaper ads.

[Vo]

Santa Rosa press, Democrat. And what was the other one? San Francisco. Big artery. The women would have ads in there, and I'd write every one of them.

[Nigel Poor]

Like, how many?

[Vo]

25.

[Nigel Poor]

Same letter to each one, or was it individual?

[Vo]

Same letter to each one.

[Nigel Poor]

Can you.

[Vo]

No, no. Can't get up again.

[Shaka]

Oh, wait, you're sorry.

[Nigel Poor]

Are you married now?

[Vo]

No, but I'm hoping to.

[Shaka]

If you come here, you have to find something to do.

[Nigel Poor]

Here's vo again.

[Shaka]

I think there's like. Like three or four choice. Either you come here and you kill yourself. Two. This place is so bad that you start taking meds, and you're chasing after the dragon or whatever, just ring at the high three, you are so angry that you. Any chance you get, you pass on that misery to somebody else. And then there's four. That's like, you know what? I'm here, and I want to change.

[Earlonne Woods]

Do you recall how many people killed himself while you was there?

[Shaka]

It was quite. Quite a lot. I mean, I remember there's one guy that I knew well. His name was Russell. He got in trouble. He went to the hole. He was, like, really unhinging. And then one day, you know, I came by and said, how are you doing? He said, you know, I'm doing great, Phil. I'm. I'm good. You know? I said, well, it's good because you were kind of rebel. I said, yeah, I'm good, bro. A few days later, he hung himself.

[Earlonne Woods]

Out of all these guys, Shaka spent the longest time on death row. 42 years. So I wondered, did this place ever start to feel like home to him?

[Steve Crittenden]

Man, he institutionalized. Where you think this is home? This ain't home. This is just a case on which they holding you.

[Nigel Poor]

When you think about home now, what do you see in your mind? What does home. What does home mean to you?

[Steve Crittenden]

A dog in the backyard. Out there in the backyard, Playing with the dog, walking around the block. My sister have A garden in the backyard. And I look forward to getting my. My hands dirty in. In the garden. But the one thing that I really will do within a couple days of being home is go fishing. I gotta go fishing. I'll tell my brother, I said, you know, when I go fishing, when we go fishing, I'm gonna catch a fish until I'm gonna release that fish. Say, what?

[Nigel Poor]

What?

[Steve Crittenden]

What's wrong with you? I said, for every one of our family members that pass away while I'm locked up, I'm gonna catch a fish and release that fish in their honor. He said, why don't you just name them that fish and keep them, man? Look, this is something that I done thought about all this time. We release the fish. That's mom going home. That's Papa. Papa went home. That's Lena. She went home.

[Nigel Poor]

So, yeah. How many fish would you have to release?

[Steve Crittenden]

Nine.

[Nigel Poor]

Nine. Okay, so nine fish.

[Earlonne Woods]

Man, you ain't gonna slam that door.

[Steve Crittenden]

No. Why would I do that?

[Nigel Poor]

As he left, Shaka kind of gently closed his door. And e, you were like.

[Earlonne Woods]

I was like, man, we can do it better than that.

[Nigel Poor]

Shaka, did it feel the way you thought it would feel?

[Steve Crittenden]

Not because I should have slabbed it.

[Nigel Poor]

You got. You have a redo.

[Steve Crittenden]

Now. That felt better.

[Vo]

That felt better.

[Nigel Poor]

How are you feeling now that we're leaving?

[Vo]

Good.

[Nigel Poor]

You might get the heck out of here.

[Vo]

Yes. I'll never step foot in this place again.

[Nigel Poor]

When we left, I was still a little worried about Steve because his reaction compared to the other guys was so intense.

[Earlonne Woods]

It was very, very. So about a week later, I know y'all caught up with old Steve.

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly. And we'll hear about that after the break. Hey, listeners, it's Nigel. Earlonne and I are very excited to tell you about Never Post, the newest show in the Radiotopia family.

[Earlonne Woods]

Have you ever wondered, why is the Internet like that? That's the question the folks that Never Post try to answer in each episode.

[Nigel Poor]

Why is there something called influencer voice? What's the deal with the TikTok shop and what's posting disease and Earlonne. Do I have it?

[Earlonne Woods]

Neverpost talks to artists, lawyers, content creators, sociologists, and historians to try and understand the Internet and our place in it.

[Nigel Poor]

From PRX's Radiotopia. Never post a podcast about the Internet. Episodes every other week at Neverpo St. That's N E V E R P O dot St. And wherever you find your podcasts. We're going to be traveling quite a bit this year. Earlonne.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yep. Another trip out east and we'll be hitting the road later this summer.

[Nigel Poor]

I know. Life tour, very exciting road trip. So that means I've got some shopping to do. But actually, did you notice the sweater I'm wearing today?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes, it's one of your new Quint sweaters.

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly. I love it and it's perfect for right now. But I could use some summer gear too. Earlonne. You know, like some lightweight pants and tops. And Quint's has me covered there.

[Earlonne Woods]

And the best part, all Quint's Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands.

[Nigel Poor]

By partnering directly with top factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings onto us.

[Earlonne Woods]

Quince only work with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices with the best fabrics and finishes.

[Nigel Poor]

I love that. And did you know that Quince also makes suitcases?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes, I do.

[Nigel Poor]

You do know that. Okay, then you probably know that I have my eye on the 27 inch bag that they make. It comes in this beautiful color green because I travel with a lot of clothes and Quince is making the perfect suitcase for me.

[Earlonne Woods]

Okay, I'm looking at the wine color one. How that sound?

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, I like that. Yeah, that sounds good.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's going to look like a glass of wine.

[Nigel Poor]

Swanky. For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from quints. Go to quints.comearhustle for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's Q U I n c e.com earhustle to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Nigel Poor]

Quince.com earhustle okay, the mic is hot. So can you introduce yourself?

[Vo]

Steve Crittenden.

[Nigel Poor]

Steve Crittenden, formerly of death row. Yes. So after we interviewed you, I have to admit I was still a little bit worried about you and how you reacted to going up there. So I'm just curious what it was like for you. That experience and the post effects of.

[Vo]

Was scary to say the least. But it just made me feel anxious and I wouldn't do it again. Too many memories that people don't know about went on in there. I would not do it again.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you regret that you did it?

[Vo]

No.

[Nigel Poor]

I interviewed a lot of guys in prison doing this for, I don't know, eight years. You are the most present with what appears to be a struggle, which makes me think you're perhaps sensitive in a different way. Like your. Your face is very readable, that you are uncomfortable or struggling with something. Most guys seem to mask it in a way?

[Vo]

No. I'm uncomfortable.

[Nigel Poor]

So is there anything specific that you want to talk about?

[Vo]

No.

[Nigel Poor]

No. All right. So I guess I need you to tell me that you're okay with me asking these questions.

[Vo]

Absolutely I am.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay.

[Vo]

I would tell you if I wasn't.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. Do you note that your reaction to things are different than other guys in here?

[Vo]

No.

[Nigel Poor]

No.

[Vo]

How different?

[Steve Crittenden]

Well.

[Vo]

In what way?

[Nigel Poor]

Your body language, your facial expression, the way your voice is very halting. All suggest somebody who's really struggling with what they're thinking and maybe difficult things to voice, but yet you seem like you really want to voice them.

[Vo]

I think that stems from the victim's family. I don't want to say anything that's going to upset them. Pretty much everything I have done years around them, the victim family. I don't want to bring up no more memories or hurt for them. Last time I saw him was in 2021, when I went and took the deal. Prior to that, I had never seen him, and I didn't know how hurt they were until April 16, 2021.

[Cujo]

And it's.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Vo]

Right there on my heart. That's when I knew how badly I'd hurt them.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, that seems like that's a good thing to know.

[Vo]

Mm. You don't know what it's like when you take a human being's life and haven't had a night's sleep since, and it eats at you.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. This is a hard question to ask you in your mind, can you even say their names?

[Vo]

Every day. Every single day.

[Nigel Poor]

What is your relationship with their victims? And I don't mean. I just mean what they. Yeah. What. What are they in you or to you? What. What are the conversations or the thoughts, then or now, maybe.

[Vo]

That's tough to answer. That'd be real tough to answer. I don't know. I really don't. I know they're a family I destroyed. I know that. I don't know.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you think the fact that your struggle to talk about this strikes me as appropriate and suggests to me the kind of person you are, that you are carrying this weight appropriately?

[Vo]

Not the kind of person I used to be. No, it's not the kind of person I used to be.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. Yeah. So who was the person you used to be?

[Vo]

Didn't think about him.

[Nigel Poor]

Uh oh.

[Vo]

Didn't think about myself.

[Nigel Poor]

Uh oh.

[Vo]

I said about 2005 is when the transformation started, and it finally hit me what I had done.

[Cujo]

And.

[Vo]

When the realization came about, wasn't easy at all.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Vo]

Still a struggle.

[Nigel Poor]

Clearly. It's a little hard to hear, but I feel like I've got to mention this. That sound you hear, Those are Steve's teeth kind of chattering and grinding. It seemed to me like it was a habit he had when he was getting particularly nervous about something. Do you think in the future you'll be in a place where this. I'm not going to say it's ever going to be easy, but that it won't have the weight. You'll be in a different emotional place. No, this is your life.

[Vo]

The victims weigh heavily, heavily on me. I don't think I'll ever be the same. I know I won't be.

[Nigel Poor]

Do you have joyful moments in your life now or light moments? Yeah, you do.

[Vo]

Absolutely. Fleeting, bejor moments, but they're still right there.

[Nigel Poor]

Did you have anyone to talk to about this stuff?

[Vo]

That's one I'd rather not say.

[Nigel Poor]

Okay. Vo was supposed to come down for this interview early on, and he didn't show up. And he finally did. And apparently we didn't know this. There was a yard down. So Vo had been sitting on the ground out in the yard. It was pouring rain that day for, like, 40 minutes while we were talking. So when he showed up, he was soaking wet. Soaking wet. Did not complain.

[Earlonne Woods]

What?

[Nigel Poor]

Nope. And he was there, ready to talk about his relationship with Steve. How long have you known each other?

[Shaka]

A long time.

[Nigel Poor]

Huh.

[Shaka]

What year did you get here? I got her in 95, 86.

[Vo]

So we've been knowing each other since 95.

[Shaka]

There's a strong bond that's built. You know, it's like being on an island.

[Nigel Poor]

So do you think you and Steve have that bond?

[Shaka]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Vo]

Without a doubt.

[Shaka]

I see a lot of good in Steve. It's just sometimes he beat himself up a lot, and I've been where I beat myself up, so I'm coming out.

[Vo]

Of that funk, though. I really am.

[Nigel Poor]

What do you like so much about Beau?

[Vo]

His generosity. He actually does care.

[Nigel Poor]

When we were on death row, Steve had told us that both his parents had died recently, which was really hard on him. And I noticed when he came down for the interview, he brought this little book with him. It was almost like a pamphlet, and he was, like, cradling it in his hands.

[Vo]

It's a book my mother gave me. I wanted you to see.

[Nigel Poor]

I was gonna ask you what you were looking. Yeah. The Way to Happiness. Common Sense Guide to Better Living.

[Vo]

Yes.

[Nigel Poor]

Can I look in it, or is it perfect?

[Vo]

Absolutely. Had it for about the last thing she gave me.

[Nigel Poor]

So you've got things that you've marked that are important to you. Yes, it looks very well read. Noticed you were.

[Vo]

I read it every day.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. And also you were playing with it, or it's like a comfort, maybe.

[Vo]

Yep.

[Nigel Poor]

A comfort.

[Vo]

Exactly what it is. Never leave home without it.

[Nigel Poor]

So every time I run into you, you'll have it on you?

[Vo]

Yes. I had it that day. Did. We were in east block.

[Nigel Poor]

You did. Where was it? In your pocket.

[Earlonne Woods]

Why did you carry it with you?

[Vo]

One, it was the last thing my mother gave me. And two, it makes a lot of.

[Nigel Poor]

Sense, you know, happiness.

[Vo]

There it goes. The way to happiness is much, much easier to travel with people one can trust. I want people to be able to trust me again, if that makes any sense.

[Nigel Poor]

Yes. But in all honesty. And are you someone who can be trusted now? Are you there?

[Vo]

Tuning sneer? Yeah. Yes.

[Nigel Poor]

That seemed like a good place to end. But before he left, Steve had something else he wanted to say.

[Vo]

There's one thing you asked me. I think it was, who do I talk to or turn to? There is someone. He's here. And we do care about each other. For complete transparency's sake.

[Earlonne Woods]

Sounds like he's talking about Vo, who's sitting right next to him. Right.

[Nigel Poor]

Yep, exactly. Which is interesting. Cause when I asked you before, you said you didn't want to tell me. I'd rather not say.

[Vo]

I don't. But I want to be honest with you. All right.

[Nigel Poor]

I deeply appreciate it. It's easy to forget when you're talking to Steve that the fact he's able to have these conversations at all is kind of astonishing. Because if Steve's original sentence had been carried out, he'd be dead.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's true for all these guys. I mean, Vo, Cujo, Shaka, and Steve, they were all slated to be executed.

[Nigel Poor]

So are all of you completely against the death penalty?

[Vo]

Absolutely.

[Cujo]

Absolutely.

[Nigel Poor]

Steve, Shaka, and Cujo were so quick and emphatic on this question. But Vo was giving it a lot of thought.

[Shaka]

Struggling with that. Because, you know, there are some people.

[Steve Crittenden]

That desire to be in prison. Do they deserve to death?

[Shaka]

There's people enrolled that I. Because I got family out there I wouldn't like. I want to see you, I mean, but in prison, Right?

[Nigel Poor]

Right.

[Steve Crittenden]

That's like Freaky Pete.

[Shaka]

Yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne. Freaky Pete.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. I don't know this guy, you know, but from the way that Shaka talks about him, Freaky Pete sound like a guy that you really don't want to get too close to.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Steve Crittenden]

If I Knew who he was on the street, and I saw him coming into my neighborhood.

[Nigel Poor]

Ah.

[Steve Crittenden]

The least I would do is escort him out. The neighborhood would have stern water not to come back. He was a predator, but who am I to say that he deserved to.

[Shaka]

Dying.

[Steve Crittenden]

Die.

[Nigel Poor]

I want to say, can no one talk until Vo answers? I would love to just silence until he answers, because I can see he's really struggling.

[Shaka]

Yeah. I mean, I'm still not 100% sold, you know? You know, because, you know, I mean, I understand, like, talking about, hey, he just lock him up. Don't. You know, because. Yeah, I'm just, you know.

[Steve Crittenden]

If you believe that there are some people that deserve to be executed, say so, bro.

[Shaka]

Yeah.

[Steve Crittenden]

Bottle of lie.

[Shaka]

Bottom line.

[Steve Crittenden]

That'S how you feel.

[Shaka]

Yeah.

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne, I remember when this conversation happened, and I was thinking, it's curious. It made it sound like they'd never had this conversation before. How they actually felt about the death penalty.

[Earlonne Woods]

I mean, should it exist or not?

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

I mean, they probably avoided that topic. You know, it's probably personal to some of them, you know, when you have, you know, imminent death lingering over your head at any given time, you know.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. There was this mood to the whole experience and the conversations we had with those guys. It was very quiet and somber, and it felt quite interior, which I think makes sense considering, you know, the topic of death row.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. And these guys lived very isolated lives, you know, but in the next episode, we're gonna be talking to women who were on death row as well.

[Nigel Poor]

Yep.

[Earlonne Woods]

And it's a very different type of conversation.

[Nigel Poor]

Yes. I think the listeners are gonna be really surprised.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's coming up next time. Ear Hustle is produced by me, Nigel Poore, Amy Stand In, Bruce Wallace, Rahsaan, New York. Thomas and Kat Shuknit.

[Nigel Poor]

Shubnam Sigman is our managing producer.

[Earlonne Woods]

The producing team, Inside San Quentin includes Darrell, Sadiq Davis and Thom Nguyen. The inside managing producer is Tony Tavoya. Thanks also to Adesteo San Pablo.

[Nigel Poor]

Thanks to Warden Andes at San Quentin and Acting Warden Parker and Lt. Newborg at the California Institution for Women, as well as Warden De la Cruz and Lt. Williams at the Central California Women's Facility for their support of the show. Also thanks to this woman here. I am Lieutenant Giamari Berry, the public information officer here at San Quentin Rehabilitation center, and I approve this episode.

[Earlonne Woods]

This episode was made possible by the Just Trust, building a smaller, more humane engine of justice and safety across the country.

[Nigel Poor]

Earlonne woods sound designs and engineers the show with help from Fernando Arruda, Harry Culhane, Darrell Siddiq Davis and Bruce Wallace.

[Earlonne Woods]

Music for this episode comes from Antwan Williams, David Jassy, Darrell Siddiq Davis, Fernando Arruda, Lee Jaspar and me.

[Nigel Poor]

For more information about this episode, check out the show notes on Ear Hustle's website, earhustlesq.com Ear Hustle will always be.

[Earlonne Woods]

Free, but if you want more Ear Hustle without ads, sign up for Ear Hustle plus subscribers get access to Axe, Nigel and Earlonne Anything episodes and where are they now? Episodes where we follow up with folks who were on the show before and see how they doing now.

[Nigel Poor]

In our latest Ask Anything bonus episode, we answered listeners questions about why there isn't a new Ear Hustle host inside San Quentin and how Earlonne's little twinsies are doing.

[Earlonne Woods]

Hey.

[Nigel Poor]

And we also talked about if Scared Straight programs from the 80s are still around, plus a whole lot more. And up next, our friend Amika Mota. You know she's been on Ear Hustle and she was the subject of that 10 part series fire Escape by our friends from Snap Judgment.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, it was dope.

[Nigel Poor]

It was.

[Earlonne Woods]

Subscribe to ear [e-mail] or directly in Apple Podcasts.

[Nigel Poor]

Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia from prx, a network of independent creator owned listener supported podcasts.

[Earlonne Woods]

Discover audio with vision at Radiotopia fm.

[Nigel Poor]

I'm Nigel Poore.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm Earlonne Woods. Thanks for listening. I am got me wondering now, is that Hussein's last name for real? Boat. Hussein Boat.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

Is that really his last name or is that like Alicia Keys like you.

[Nigel Poor]

Changed your last name?

[Earlonne Woods]

No, John Legend. That's not his name.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, Key sounds like made up. But who is Bolt? Who are you talking about?

[Earlonne Woods]

Hussein Bolt man in the world. The fastest dude.

[Nigel Poor]

Oh, Radiotopia from prx.