The Loop Ep. 4: Where’s the Conflict?

Summary

Ear Hustle: The Loop Ep. 4 – Where’s the Conflict?

Podcast: Ear Hustle (Radiotopia)
Hosts: Earlonne Woods & Nigel Poor
Date: November 19, 2025
Episode: The Loop Ep. 4: Where's the Conflict?

---

Main Theme

This episode explores the dynamics, daily routines, and emotional landscape of the girls unit at Crossroads Juvenile Center in Brooklyn. The hosts delve into the challenges these young women face—ranging from the monotony of institutional life, to interpersonal conflict, trauma, and the fluctuating relationships between siblings incarcerated together. Through interviews, candid conversations, and the lens of Drama Club improv sessions, the episode unpacks how conflict manifests in such a closed, high-stress environment and what it says about both the girls’ resilience and the limitations of the system meant to help them.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Life in the Girls Unit: The Relentless Loop (04:09–08:08)

• Routine and Stagnation: The girls’ daily routine is monotonous—marked by meals, idleness, minimal activities, and extended downtime. Yaya B. (“Big Yaya”) describes the schedule in detail, underscoring the psychological toll of repetition:
  “It's the same routine every day. Wake up, eat breakfast…watching TV, coloring…Lunch…More of the same…Then dinner. Same thing. Lock in for showers. And the next day, it’s the same thing.” (04:09)
• Isolation: With usually only 3–5 girls to over 100 boys, the unit is tight-knit but tense, amplifying interpersonal issues.
• Lack of Escape: The girls cannot be separated when conflicts arise, unlike boys, due to limited space:
  “When the boys have issues…we can move you to another hole. For girls…we can’t move you. They all have to make it work together.” (16:36)

The Role of Programs – Drama Club (07:53–11:07)

• Drama Club as Relief: Programs like Drama Club, led by facilitators like ‘Tiny’ and Cesar, offer rare excitement and emotional outlet.
  Yaya: “…for them to be able to come and give us something to look forward to…by the time you get back to that hole, you in that good spirit.” (08:08)
• Conflict as Curriculum: Improv exercises often devolve into real-life tension, highlighting the realness (and rawness) of conflict: “Cesar’s actually trying to do something really interesting here. He’s trying to teach them to listen to one another instead of just screaming at each other…but it’s kind of hard to tell if that lesson’s landing.” (11:00, Nigel Poor)

Tension and Conflict Among the Girls (13:05–16:49)

• Intensified Pettiness: Staff and residents alike agree that conflicts among the girls can be relentless, personal, and resistant to mediation.
  “They fight each other, curse at each other…the way they talk to one another is so disrespectful…jealous of one another…they don’t let go of nothing.” (13:03–16:49, Yds Harden)
• Vulnerability: Passive girls risk being ostracized:
  “If we're not there to protect them, they would [get eaten alive]…Some girls here, they're bullies.” (14:25)

Trauma and the Search for Stability (15:05–16:25)

• Deeper Issues: Many girls arrive already carrying trauma, unstable housing, or neglect. “Some of them, this is a stable environment. I did have one who told me, ‘I’m happy here. You guys treat me nice. I eat.’…It was sad, but you can’t stay here.” (15:32)
• Arrested Development: Earlonne and guests discuss how incarceration stunts personal development and maturity:
  “When you’re in prison, you don’t age like people in society…you might be physically older, but mentally you’re still 17.” (25:01)

Sibling Dynamics: Big Yaya & Little Yaya (18:41–28:33)

• Parallel Journeys, Emotional Distance: The episode follows the complex, shifting relationship between Big Yaya (incarcerated since 16, now 19) and her younger sister, Little Yaya, recently re-arrested. Both feel distance has developed:
  • Big Yaya: “You been locked up for three years, about to be four. Girl, you don’t know me…Who the hell am I?” (25:40)
  • Little Yaya: “I be in my own world anyway…We lose each other every day.” (36:02)
• Protective Instincts versus Independence: Big Yaya wrestles with wanting to protect her sister but realizing:
  “Lately I be, like, she don’t need me. She let it be known.” (27:44)

The Effects of Conflict on Relationships and Mental Health (19:40–23:00)

• Escalating Drama: Fights can emerge over trivial matters (e.g., colored pencils, hair), but even after fights, grudges linger.
  • “Girls will continue, even after y’all fight, they want to still keep going…They fighting over nothing.” (19:59)
• Impact of New Arrivals: After a gang sweep, the population of the girls unit doubles, increasing stress and “arguing girls.”
  “Last time we left, it was about five young ladies. How many is it now?” — “11…It’s bad. Very bad.” (21:38)

Individual Stories: Little Yaya’s Return, and Kensley’s Isolation (24:00–45:35)

• Revolving Door: Little Yaya, who had succeeded on the outside with Drama Club, is now back at Crossroads, highlighting the challenges of reentry and systemic gaps.
• Kensley’s Loneliness: An 18-year-old named Kensley stands out for her deep isolation and inability to connect or find support:
  • She describes the courtyard as “a trap place” (40:34), admits there is “nothing beautiful out here,” and has no family to call:
    “I talk to my mom, but she don’t talk to me. She says she’s working…Is there anyone else you can call? No.” (43:09)
  • Big Yaya reflects: “She’s one of the reasons why I’m not a judgmental person anymore…She needs help. If I was a judge, I would send her home…this place is not to help people like her.” (44:54)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Institutional Routine & Monotony:
  “It's whack. Like who the hell wants to be in here? It's the same routine every day. It don't change.”
  – Yaya (04:09)

• On the Drama Club’s Impact:
  “Ceaser gonna make you laugh, Tiny gonna make you laugh. By the time you get back to that hole, you in that good spirit.”
  – Yaya (08:08)

• On Conflict among Girls:
  “They are something special. They fight each other. They curse at each other. The way they talk to one another is so disrespectful. And it’s like—‘well, this is how we talk to her. And that’s my bitch.’”
  – Yds Harden (13:05)

• On Trauma & ‘Stability’ Inside:
  “I did have one…why do you want to stay here? She like, 'I'm happy here. You guys treat me nice. I eat.'”
  – Yds Harden (15:32)

• On Sibling Estrangement:
  “She like, 'Girl, you been locked up for three years, about to be full. Girl, you don’t know me.' I was a little hurt when she said that to me, but...it’s true.”
  – Big Yaya (25:40)

• On Peer Relationships:
  “They fighting over colored pencil. They fight over nothing...my hair look better than yours. Unnecessary problems, unnecessary arguments. It's just a lot.”
  – Big Yaya (19:59)

• On Kensley’s Experience:
  “A trap place…Nothing beautiful out here…I talk to my mom but she don’t talk to me…No one else to call.”
  – Kensley (40:34–43:26)

• On Incarceration Stymieing Growth:
  “When you’re in prison, you don’t age like people in society…you might be physically older, but mentally you’re still 17 because you haven’t done the same things people in society do.”
  – Earlonne (25:01)

• Turning Despair Into Art:
  The poignant moment where Nigel and Kensley make tin-foil animals together in the yard:
  “We’re trying very hard to turn something not so beautiful into something beautiful.”
  – Nigel Poor (42:16)

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• [04:09] – Yaya describes the girls unit's daily routine and monotony.
• [07:53] – Introduction to activities in the hall, including Drama Club.
• [08:08]–[11:07] – Drama Club session, improv conflicts, and group dynamics.
• [13:05] – Staff discuss the difficulty of managing girls’ conflicts versus boys’.
• [15:32] – Discussion of trauma and the “stability” jail sometimes provides.
• [18:41]–[28:33] – Conversation on sibling separation and arrested development between Big Yaya and Little Yaya.
• [19:40]–[23:00] – Descriptions of fights and escalating drama in the unit.
• [24:00] – Little Yaya’s return to Crossroads and family separation.
• [36:01] – Little Yaya speaks on estrangement from Big Yaya.
• [40:34]–[43:26] – Kensley’s interview highlights her extreme loneliness.
• [44:54] – Big Yaya’s reflection on Kensley and the failure of the system to help her.

---

Tonal Highlights

• Raw, Honest, and Unvarnished: The tone remains direct and candid, echoing the real talk and gallows humor of the young women inside.
• Empathetic but Unsentimental: Both hosts and subjects express frustration, sadness, and resignation, sometimes leavened with tough love or dark humor.
• Vivid Imagery: The scenes, especially in the yard and during improv, let listeners “ear hustle”—to eavesdrop on the texture of life behind locked doors.

---

Takeaways for Listeners

• The girls at Crossroads are navigating an emotional minefield—forced proximity, trauma, and a system with limited means to address interpersonal conflict or developmental needs.
• Programs like Drama Club offer a brief reprieve, but the roots of conflict run deeper, often tangled with trauma and systemic neglect.
• Sibling relationships, though potentially supportive, are complicated by the ways incarceration warps personal growth and emotional connection.
• Some young women, like Kensley, fall through every social safety net and remain profoundly isolated.
• The question “Where’s the conflict?” is answered: it’s everywhere—rooted in the monotony, in the trauma, in every stunted relationship and unresolved moment.

---

For Further Engagement

• For more about the making of the series or behind-the-scenes content, check out Ear Hustle Plus [see website].
• Next episode: The Loop follows a young woman named Kaysha, who is not incarcerated but remains in the same “loop.” Preview at [46:18–47:19].

---

Episode Summary Prepared by Podcast Summarizer – For listeners who want the real Ear Hustle story, straight from the source, shaped by those who lived it.

Transcript

[A]

Hello.

[B]

Earlonne here and Nigel. In a year that's been really tough for public media, radio and podcasting, Radiotopia has stayed the course.

[A]

As a community of independent podcasts, we welcome new shows into the fold. Shout out to Proxy with Yowei Shaw Selects Try Hard and Only if youf Get Caught and together brought more than 400 episodes to our listeners.

[B]

Being part of Radiotopia means not only getting support from Radiotopia, but we are in community with other creators who we admire, like our dear friends the Kitchen Sisters.

[A]

We're even in community for the Radiotopia fundraiser. Your generous gifts don't just support Ear Hustle, they go to some of our favorite shows like Home Cooking and the Stoop.

[B]

It's a real joy to be in this together with other creative audio makers whose work we really believe in.

[A]

It would mean so much if you supported our community of creators by making a tax deductible donation of any amount@ Radiotopia FM.

[B]

Donate two more important things. If you can donate before December 31st, your gift will be matched by a generous donor. That's huge.

[A]

Plus, when you donate, you'll be invited to our holiday mixtope on December 4, where Radiotopia producers will share exclusive audio love letters about our favorite shows in the network. It's going to be really special and we would love to see you there.

[B]

Head to Radiotopia fm. Donate to support Radiotopia and our community of independent podcasts today. Thank you.

[C]

There's nothing like finding that perfect gift for someone. But what to do when you can't decide what that is? Macy's has you covered. Not only do they have all the trendiest items of the year, but they also have free personal stylists who can help you match them with that extra special someone. So you can feel excited, not anxious, watching them open something unexpected. A gift you would have never thought of yourself. Skip the stress and let a personal stylist scour all of Macy's categories and brands for you. Need it shipped? They'll handle that too. With Macy's Black Friday sale happening now, you can get all your holiday shopping done at huge savings all in one place. Book your personal styling session today at Macy's, online or in store. It's the best gift you could give yourself this holiday season.

[A]

Notch Mm. Your eyes got big this morning when I came in with that Quince bag.

[B]

I know because I was so excited to see what you got.

[A]

I just received my Turkish bath mats from Quince and they are cozy and thick.

[B]

Earlonne, can you see how happy I am holding them right now.

[A]

Yes, I do.

[B]

These bath mats are so soft.

[A]

You look attached.

[B]

I am. You might not get these back. Do you know what I ordered?

[A]

What's that?

[B]

I got this pair of. They're called jersey sheets. They're like jersey material. It is so comfortable, cozy. I bought a second pair like three days later.

[A]

Jersey material.

[B]

Yep, Jersey material. And you know what? I'm sleeping so much more. I'm getting lazy because these she are so comfortable.

[A]

So you finish start working from home.

[B]

Well, I'll get back to you on.

[C]

That one.

[A]

Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished. And last from Quint. Perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself. Go to quint.com earhustle for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too.

[B]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com earhustle to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quinstock earhustle.

[C]

I'm Yaya B and I am the designer of Honeypins. The following episode of Ear Hustle contains language and content that might not be appropriate for all listeners. Discretion is the. It's whack. Like who the hell wants to be in here? It's the same routine every day. It don't change.

[B]

Can you describe the routine?

[C]

Wake up, eat breakfast. Whatever we do in the day room, either watching TV or chilling, talking, coloring. Then we have lunch at around 12. Then after lunch, same thing. Watching TV, coloring, chilling, talking. Then comes dinner at 5:30. Then after dinner, same thing. Coloring, chilling, talking, watching TV. 6:30, we lock in for showers. Showers takes like two hours because there's a lot of us in a hole. So we be done by like 8:30, same thing. Chilling, talking, watching TV, coloring, same thing. Then at around like 9, then they give us a little late night snack and then be time to lock in.

[B]

And then the next day.

[C]

The next day, it's the same thing.

[A]

Life on the girls unit at Crossroads Juvenile center in Brooklyn. That's what we're talking about today. I'm Earlonne Woods.

[B]

I'm Nigel Poor. And this is the loop from ear hustle and PRX's Radiotopia episode four, where's the tension?

[A]

And if you haven't listened to the first three episodes of the series yet, please go back and hear those first.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, definitely start from the beginning.

[A]

A door, a locked door that I can't open. That's the first thing I always see.

[C]

I call it baby Jill.

[B]

I'M like, this is baby Jill.

[A]

Gentlemen, gentlemen.

[C]

All right, cut, cut, cut, cut. I can't say that my plan is.

[A]

Just to keep robbing, but it's like.

[C]

That'S all I know. I'm a product of my environment.

[A]

You know, we're on a constant loop. This loop never ends. I don't think it's gonna end with improv.

[C]

You could do anything and there's like, nobody could laugh at you. There's no right or wrong answer. Like, I could be a cowgirl if I want to. Like, you know, nobody's gonna look at me weird.

[B]

Girls are a small minority of the population at Crossroads. The number fluctuates and. But sometimes there are as few as three girls. And that's compared to over 100 boys.

[A]

There are so few of them that they all live together on one hall. And even though Crossroads has more activities than usual for a place like this.

[B]

Yeah. And remember we saw musicians coming in to do a DJ program.

[A]

Mm. But still, no teenager wants to be cooped up, especially with like, only three or four other kids. So for the girls, the feeling is magnified.

[C]

It's the same routine every day, honestly. Wake up, they knock on your door, wake up at 5 o', clock, showers, do your bed. School time is like 8:30 to 3 o'. Clock. After that, you come back to the whole housing area and you basically sit there to see if you have programs. If you don't have programs that day or you nice on schedule for any programs, you should stay on hold in a day area doing nothing.

[B]

And what, like, what are the things to do in the hall?

[C]

Well, we play cards. That's one thing. We have a PS4 too, but, you know, nobody play games. It's not cool games.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So we just be sitting there, probably listen to music on the radio.

[B]

So it's a lot of sitting around.

[C]

Yeah, it's a lot of just sitting around. It be causing problems. Like all the kitty cat talk, all the pettiness. Like, you know, it's girls.

[B]

Yaya says one of the things that does actually get her excited is drama club.

[A]

And drama club, of course, is the program we've been following in this series that works with kids at Crossroads teaching improv skills.

[C]

I met them when I first got here last year. Tiny, she was one of my first drama teachers. And you know, I'm a funny person, so I like interacting with them and acting behind walls isn't really much activity. So for them to be able to come and give a son and look forward to. Yeah, we might Be going through something, right? And then drama club come. That probably would have been the only program we've seen today. So we want to make the best out of it. Ceaser gonna make you laugh, Tiny gonna make you laugh. You know, by the time you get back to that hole, you in that good spirit. All right, so this is Ear Hustle.

[A]

We're gonna have time to.

[C]

We're gonna take some time to introduce everybody as we do a little small check in.

[A]

Tiny, what you start to talk about? On our second visit to Crossroads, Cesar, a teacher with drama club, invited us to come sit in on a drama club class in the girls unit.

[B]

This was taking place in a small classroom off the main courtyard. About maybe about eight girls from ages 14 to 18 were sitting at the desks.

[A]

Tiny is another drama club teacher. She kicked things off.

[C]

Hi, my name is Tiny. I'm from Queens. And something that I would do on a good day, I'm not gonna lie, like, I would like to do my nail, like, you know, like button a real good nail tech. My name is Yaya. I am from the Bronx.

[A]

We heard Yaya a little earlier talking about drama club.

[C]

What would I do on a good day? I got money.

[B]

My name's Nigel. I'm from California. I feel pretty good today. And on a good day, I would hang out with my sister and have lunch and go shopping. Yes, and go shopping in California.

[A]

My name is Earlonne. I'm from California, formerly incarcerated. So on a good day, I like hanging out with my peeps.

[C]

So go ahead, look at your actors real quick.

[A]

Make sure that they ready. And if they ready, say, action.

[C]

Oh, my God, you look so nerdy. You're not. Hello. Come on, now, run it back.

[B]

So at this point, we've been to a couple other dramas club classes, but the girls class felt a little different.

[C]

So the conflict was. We was waiting for her. You were waiting.

[A]

No, you weren't. You was leaving.

[C]

You was waiting for her to get out. You was waiting. That's the point. We were supposed to meet. If she's not here on time, we supposed to meet her there. She's trying to get an answer from you.

[A]

All you doing is running away. You gotta talk it out, right?

[B]

It's a little hard to make out what they're saying because the scene is pretty chaotic. But Cesar's actually trying to do something really interesting here.

[A]

He's trying to teach them to listen to one another instead of just screaming at each other. But it's kind of hard to tell if that lesson's landing I know.

[C]

You better not pull up to this party with no Crocs on. Your lace front better be lacing and your makeup better be done. Are you serious? Y' all wake your ass up and let's go. I'm about to pull up to your crib and we gonna. We gonna fight if you not. You know what? I'm on my way. Okay. Waking up, waiting downstairs. How are you going to air that.

[A]

Out in a way that, like, you guys can move forward?

[C]

I don't want you to answer right now. Okay, we're going to do this one more time.

[A]

You cannot run away. That is not. Cesar is a real patient dude.

[B]

Earlonne. That is putting it mildly.

[C]

Scared of her. No, you're not.

[A]

All right, so we're going to go ahead. We're going to straight into it one.

[B]

More time on the way home from Crossroads. I wish I could have summoned Caesar's Equanimity, but nope, I really wasn't at my best. No. I made two fucking martinis, man. I am my emotional space.

[A]

Did the girls do that to you, Nigel? Did the five little girls do that to you?

[B]

Their volume and intensity just. I can't take it. I was telling Earlonne I'd live with the boys over the girls. I could not take that. Yeah, I don't know.

[C]

That was a tough day for me.

[B]

I don't feel great about that. But, man, that's how I felt. It's coming back. It's all coming back to me right now. I'm getting tense.

[A]

In retrospect, it's definitely hitting hard now.

[B]

It's following me. That was a tough day.

[A]

I'm curious who's harder to work with, the boys or the girls?

[C]

The girls.

[A]

This is Yds Harden.

[B]

We met her in the last episode. She told us the story about getting milked by a couple of kids in the boys unit. We mostly been talking to the boys here. I think we've spent one time with the girls. I couldn't take it.

[C]

I know. So hard.

[B]

I know what makes it harder.

[C]

Their personalities. They all have these different personalities and they cannot live together. It's the hardest thing ever. This person is jealous of this person. This person want this. They mad that this person looks like this. It's just like eight of them is working with 120 boys. I'm not going to lie. I love them, but it's just like, not today. Not today. They are something special. They fight each other. They curse at each other. The way they talk to one another is so disrespectful. And it's like. And I'm like, why don't you talk to each other like that? That's not okay. And it's like, well, this is how we talked to her. And that's my bitch. And I'm like, no. And they are so jealous of one another. Somebody get their hair done pretty. And they didn't. It's like, look at my hair and look at hers. When you get outside, you're gonna say, what was we thinking? I honestly think they don't realize where they at. I think they think they're home or they. At this away camp, they don't even understand how serious their crimes are. We have serious crimes downstairs.

[B]

I mean, what do you think would happen to a girl who came here who was very passive? Would they just eat her alive?

[C]

We wouldn't let them, but if we're not there to protect them, they would. Yes, we have some girls here that they're bullies. Can I have your snacks? You gonna eat that? Can you go past this note under the boy's door for me? Go past this note for me. Okay. And you know that's a breach of security. You do not go to those doors. So little things like that, as long as you have strong staff there to stop it, if you don't, yes, they will get eaten alive. They kids. So we understand.

[A]

When I heard Hardin talk about how a lot of these girls are in here on serious charges, what came to mind for me was like, what are they going through before they got here? You know? What, traumas.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I wonder if some of them is, like, this is a stable environment for them. Like, you know, some of them might be unhoused or.

[C]

Maybe not the ones we have now, But I do see those come in. I did have one, and I'm like, why do you want to stay here? She like, I'm happy here. You guys treat me nice. I eat, and. And it was sad, but you can't stay here. I don't know what's happening on the outside, but I just. I was just like, wow, when I heard that. Like, y' all treat me better than when I'm outside.

[A]

The girls seem to come in here from. Just from my perspective, just trying to mask a lot more trauma. Right.

[B]

This is why Dias Landry, we met him in the second episode.

[A]

He's the one who has that daughter he's so proud of. So, like, whatever they're normally dealing with, it's on their sleeves 100% of the time, you know, so you can really have an Idea of who you're dealing with from the moment you meet them.

[B]

So the girls are clearly coming in with a lot of trauma and stuff to deal with. But what's also so hard about the girls unit is that it's so small, there's so few of them.

[A]

There's only one hole designated for the girls here in Crossroads, right? We have multiple holes for the boys. So I don't like the 10 holes. One hole is for girls. Everybody else is boys. When the boys have issues with each other, right. We can move you to another hole.

[B]

Because there's other holes for boys to.

[A]

Go to your girl, we can't move you. The boys, you can really play on. Oh, y' all gotta be men about this. Y' all gotta squash this. Y' all gotta live you here with your man. You don't want them to move you. There's a lot of leverage to make boys feel like you can make this thing work in this space that you're in without having to move them. I've done mediations for fights and situations that happen where kids have hit kids and been able to talk through those situations and keep kids still on hold with each other in a non violent space. That's a lot more challenging to girls because they'll have you believing that things are fine and they're not fine at all. They've never decided it was going to be fine. And they're great at misleading you. Right. Young girls especially, they're not letting go of nothing. So even when you think it's over, it's not really over.

[C]

They just call me Yaya, like Yaya B. Yaya.

[A]

This is Yaya. She's got one of those big squinty eyes. Smile.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You know what I'm saying? Tattoos on her forearms and a gang of individual braids.

[B]

Yes, yes. And we heard her earlier in the drama club class that Cesar was teaching. And it's a little confusing because she has a younger sister who is also named Yaya. Before I met you, I was hearing a story about Yaya and then I heard there was two Yayas, so I was like so messed up. Could you explain who the two Yaya's are?

[C]

So it's me and my sister, but her name is spelled differently because it ends with an H. And then mine is just Y8. Y8. But yeah, that's my sister. She's my youngest sibling.

[A]

Older Yaya, we'll call her Big Yaya and her sister Lil Yaya have both spent time at Crossroads. But Big Yaya had been there for about three years since she was 16.

[B]

So we've had some staff tell us that the girls are harder to work with than the boys. What do you make of that?

[C]

They are. Honestly, if I had the opportunity to go to a boys hole, I would. It's just too much cattiness. The boys, like for example, if they have a problem and they fight it out, that's it. The girls will continue, like even after y' all fight, they want to still keep going with the same thing. Like, I thought it was over already. Like that shit is over. They want to keep talking about it. So it's going to keep adding up, adding up. It doesn't stop. They fighting over colored pencil. They fight over nothing. Oh no. But my hair look better than your. Like who? Which is unnecessary problems, unnecessary arguments. It's just a lot.

[A]

Any interesting stories?

[C]

All right, so it's two girls, right? It's an 18 year old and then a 15 year old. The 15 year old, she's likes to run her mouth. They just arguing, arguing, arguing.

[A]

So these two girls are in the cafeteria arguing. And finally one of them just takes flight on the other one. Two piece with a biscuit.

[C]

And the 18 year old tried to pull her hair, but she pulls out the scrunchies. So the 15 year old starts screaming, ah.

[B]

Meanwhile, some boys are watching through a window, bro.

[C]

They was laughing, they was like, ah, they fighting. They start shaking the door. The staff like, move back, move back, move back. It was bad. Next thing you know, they was friends. I was just shaking my head. I was like, oh, this place is crazy.

[A]

That conversation with Big Yaya took place in February. We came back a few times that spring, but we didn't get to see her.

[B]

So the next time we saw Yaya was six months later in August.

[A]

And when Yaya walked in the room, she seemed a bit off, a little distant.

[B]

I noticed you're getting a lot of hugs. Can I ask why? Why are you getting so many hugs today?

[C]

Um, I don't know. They just feel like I need a hug.

[B]

Do you, do you need a hug today?

[C]

No, I had enough for the date.

[A]

Are you all hugged out?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Have you been turnt up lately or something?

[B]

Nah. So what's been going on? Anything new?

[C]

You know, jail stuff.

[A]

In the last episode we mentioned a big gang sweep that had taken place in Brooklyn, bringing in a whole bunch of new kids in the crossroads.

[B]

And that had brought changes to the girls hall too.

[A]

Last time we left, it was about five women here. Five young ladies. How many is it now?

[B]

11.

[C]

Yeah, 11.

[A]

11, maybe. Doesn't sound like a lot, but remember, there's only one hall. This is twice as many girls as are usually here, and they just have to make it work. And how. How is that bad?

[C]

Is bad. Very bad, honestly.

[B]

Why?

[C]

What? What?

[B]

What?

[C]

Because you got to. Some people stay in a classroom. It's bad.

[B]

Is this the most girls that have been here since you've been here?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So what changes in there besides, like, there's not enough room? What's like the.

[C]

A lot of arguing girls, like.

[A]

Indeed. So what's been happening with you lately since we. Since we've seen you last? You graced our presence.

[C]

I've been just trying to leave this place. You know, this place is a little cuckoo. So I'm just. I just feel like I'm ready to go. Yeah, I'm ready to head out.

[B]

There was something else that was new, too, but interestingly, Yaya wasn't mentioning it. So I'm curious, when we asked you what was new, why you didn't tell us about your sister being here? Because that seems like humongous news.

[A]

Listeners might remember Yaya's sister, Lil Yaya, from the first episode when we met her at the Door.

[B]

Yeah. The Door is a community center in Manhattan where Drama Club also teaches classes, and kids who get released from Crossroads can show up there and continue to be part of Drama Club.

[A]

When we met Lil Yaya at the Door, she was telling us how Drama Club really turned things around for her, was keeping her out of trouble. Let's play a little clip from that interview.

[C]

I started working here literally a week and a half after I got Crossroads. So I didn't waste no time. I came straight here. It changed my life, literally. Because if not, I will be right back in jail. Like, I noticed in myself how certain situations. Now I know how to ignore it.

[B]

So Drama Club had been doing what they said they were going to do. When kids get out, you know, they give them a place where they can hang out, they get a job and also support.

[A]

But unfortunately, Yaya had been arrested again. Now she was back at Crossroads, waiting.

[B]

To be charged and being housed with her sister.

[C]

It was just like a shocking moment. But it's been like two weeks already, so it's not really shocking now. It's really kicking in. Like, she's really here. Like, your sister's really in jail.

[B]

Can you talk about that or not?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, sometimes when you in jail for so long and then your family member, someone come into a facility like this, it's a little hard because it's like you don't know how they really act in the real world. So when they come and live with you for a certain amount of time, it's like, wow, I don't even know you anymore, really. You know what I'm saying? It's like, damn, like I came when I was 16. Right. So I'm 19 now. Right. People say you're supposed to act your age. Right. But our minds don't develop fully develop in child. All you around is immature behavior. You're going to act immature.

[A]

Rest and development.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When you're in prison, you don't age like people in society. Like, say you go in at 17 and you get out. You might be physically older.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But mentally you're still 17 because you haven't done the same things that people in society do.

[B]

Yeah. So in this case, Big Yaya's inside experiencing that as you described, arrested development. And Little Yaya's outside growing older. I don't know what to call it. Like, at an outside pace. Right. And now they're out of sync. But do you feel like your sister's gotten more mature?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So do you feel like there's a big distance between you two?

[C]

Yes. Because she like, girl, you been locked up for three years, about to be full. Girl, you don't know me. I was a little hurt when she said that to me, but I can't even be upset. Cause it's true. Who the hell am I?

[B]

I remember in episode one hearing from Little Yaya about how close the two of them had been. Little Yaya used to visit her s every weekend, and they were on the phone all the time.

[A]

But now that the two of them are together at Crossroads, Big Yaya is saying that her little sister seems almost like a stranger. How was she dressing when you left?

[C]

So, like, when I left, like, yeah, she was girly, right. But she would dress her age, like, accordingly, like, appropriate. I seen a picture. She got this mini, mini, mini skirt. It's not even a mini skirt. It's a like, booty cheek out. Hola. I'm like, nah. What? Like what? Last time I checked, you don't even like skirts. She got my tattoos now face tattoo all. I was like, yeah, well, what was.

[B]

It like when you saw her for the first time in here?

[C]

I was just like, damn. Like, what are you doing here? You're not supposed to be in here. I was sad. I was, I was. I was really sad.

[B]

So do you, like, spend time together each day?

[C]

Yeah, but you know it's different. It's not the same.

[B]

So you weren't surprised or you were surprised?

[C]

I was. I'm more of the, like, travel girl. She had a job, all of that. She used to be the one come to see me when my mom couldn't come see me. She used to come see me by her, all of that. So for me to see her here, it's like you was just on the other side of my heart.

[A]

So in here, having a sibling, do you feel you have to be the protector or do you feel I feel.

[C]

Yeah, I be saying that. I be saying that, but lately I be like, she don't need me.

[B]

You don't think she needs you?

[C]

Nah, I know she don't. She let it be known like, I don't need you. You. So you grow out of certain things. So she probably grew out of the I need you.

[B]

You don't think she's protecting herself or she feels embarrassed or that she let you down by coming back here and she might feel bad about it? No, nothing like that. She's not angry.

[C]

She might be. Who wouldn't be angry that you in hand?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I just feel like. Like I. Like I said, you know how as a kid, you'd be like, I need daddy and mommy all the time, but you get to an age that you be like, I don't need my parents anymore. I feel like I could do this on my own. That's the type of girl that I'm saying. She grew out of the I need my older sister.

[B]

Except I would think that everybody inside, whether they're willing to admit it or not, still needs their sister or their mom. They just might not feel strong enough to say it. Yeah.

[A]

When we come back, let's hear little Yaya's side of things.

[B]

That's after the break. We've got some news that I have to say. Earlonne, I have been dying to share.

[A]

Hell, yeah. It's our 2026 West coast tour.

[B]

Yes. And it feels like a lifetime ago. But it was just last August that we drove over 4,000 miles through the south and Midwest, performing our live show in 10 theaters and three prisons. And it was so much fun that we knew we had to bring it to our home coast.

[A]

Yep, west coast is the best coast. So early next year, we're hitting the road again. This time, we'll be taking the show to Portland, Seattle, Los Angeles.

[B]

Your hometown.

[A]

Yes, yes. San Francisco. And hopefully one more surprise location.

[B]

Not hopefully. That's gonna happen.

[A]

Indeed.

[B]

And for every outside show we do, we're planning to do one at a local park. Prison. So that's five shows in prison and five shows outside prison. And Earlonne, Come on. We cannot wait for this.

[A]

Indeed. Tickets for the Portland, Seattle and LA show go on sale at noon Pacific time on November 5th at earhustlesq.com tour. Tickets for the San Francisco show will be announced very soon.

[B]

Get all the details at earhustlesq.com/tour. We cannot wait to see you on the road. Okay, Earlonne, I think we may have found the most useful holiday gift yet.

[A]

I know what you're about to say, Nige.

[B]

You do?

[A]

Because you've been talking this one up.

[B]

I have? Oh, my God. All right, so, yes, I am talking about Masterclass, and I've been using Masterclass for a while now now. But one thing I just learned is that you can actually download classes onto your phone, so you can watch them anytime. I mean, like during a boring meeting.

[C]

Shh.

[B]

Yes. Thank you.

[A]

They even offer audio mode for folks like me who spend a lot of time driving. I'm going to be driving to Southern Cal this week, so I'm going to dive into a class taught by Issa Rae because I like her show Insecure and a lot of stuff that she does.

[B]

You know what I also love about Masterclass?

[A]

What's that?

[C]

It's the.

[B]

The range of classes you can take. So over the weekend, I listened to Kevin Hart, so I got my laugh on. And then I wanted to learn more about putting on makeup because no one ever taught me how to put on makeup. So I caught up with Bobby Brown, and then I satisfied my creative side by listening to Werner Herzog talk about filmmaking. It was fantastic.

[A]

Masterclass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to masterclass.com earhustle for the current offer. That's up to 50% [e-mail] earhustle Masterclass.com.

[B]

Earhustle.

[C]

What if your perceptions about the past were wrong?

[A]

Throughline is a podcast that takes you.

[C]

Back in time to uncover the parts.

[B]

Of the story that may have gone unnoticed.

[A]

It effectively turned day into night and.

[C]

How it shaped the the world. Now time travel with us every week on the Throughline podcast from npr.

[A]

How are you? Can we get you over here?

[C]

Sit here.

[A]

Wait a minute. Is that a new tattoo?

[B]

Where?

[C]

On my face?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I didn't remember that same day at Crossroads that we met with Big Yaya. We asked if her sister Little Yaya wanted to come talk to us last.

[A]

Time we had seen her, she was on the outside wearing her favorite Lululemon outfit and teaching Nigel improv skills.

[B]

Exactly. Now she was wearing the Crossroads uniform, gray sweats, and Crocs.

[A]

Introduce yourself.

[B]

Yaya.

[A]

Yaya 1 or Yaya 2 1?

[C]

Yaya.

[B]

When was the last time we saw you? What was happening the last time we saw you?

[C]

I was on the other side.

[B]

Where were we? Do you remember? Yeah. At the DOI she said @ the door again. That's the place outside Crossroads in Manhattan where kids who are struggling can come and do drama club classes and get other services.

[A]

When we heard that you were here, we was like, what?

[B]

I know.

[A]

So how are you doing?

[C]

Horrible. I'm in here. I'm not doing good. I was doing good, staying out of trouble. Now I'm in here.

[A]

One of the most memorable things I remember you saying is that you're picky about your food.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

How's life today?

[C]

Well, I was crying. When was it? Yesterday. Because the lunch was so bad. I got so mad. I was like, I'm just tired of this. I just want to go home. This food, I can't with this food. Like, they just be serving us anything sometimes.

[B]

What was on the plate?

[C]

It was, like, bread, a chicken salad, and some sweet potato fries. So then I asked for ketchup because, like, I'm not about to just eat fries just by itself. I need my ketchup. These people bring a whole plate of freaking mayonnaise. A plate of mayonnaise. When I ask for ketchup, like, what the fuck am I supposed to do with mayonnaise? I'm like, I'm just so tired of this shit. Like, I can't no more.

[B]

Earlonne, do you remember how Yaya had sounded when we were outside at the door together? You know, she was really polite. She was a little bit shy. We did that improv skit together, and she was, like, mentoring me about how to do a better job. So here. She sounds so different.

[A]

Yeah, well, you know, being at Crossroads is stressful, and I think she's kind of taking on the energy of that place.

[B]

And we wondered if some of the stress was about being locked up at Crossroads with her sister.

[A]

What was it like seeing your sister?

[C]

Honestly, it was like, oh, man, here we go again. Nothing crazy, though, but is it good.

[B]

To have somebody you know here? That's blood.

[C]

I mean, yeah, it's good to have somebody. I know. I don't feel uncomfortable. Nothing. But I'd be in my own space. Like, I barely talk to her anyway.

[A]

She says she feel you, you, you, you. You've grown past her since you've been in society because you got all the societal experience and she don't.

[C]

Yeah. I'd be in my own world anyway, so.

[B]

So there's nothing you need from her or nothing you can give her?

[C]

No.

[B]

Were you guys close before?

[C]

Yeah, when she was out. Yeah, we lose each other every day.

[B]

So what do you think's changed? That closeness.

[C]

Obviously, her being in jail.

[B]

And.

[C]

I don't know, she act different.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So do you think she was disappointed in seeing you?

[C]

She's more than happy in seeing me disappointed.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, of course, you know, you see your loved one, you gonna embrace them, but at the end of the day, you like you was my visitor.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, now you and.

[B]

Earlonne, you were locked up with your brother. Do you relate to this?

[A]

Oh, I relate a lot, you know, because at the end of the day, probably the person that you depended on the most is now in a cell or near in a dorm with you. That means they can't really be that connection to the outside anymore.

[B]

Right? Right. Do you think that your relationship will improve with your sister? Like, do you want it to?

[C]

I don't really care for it.

[B]

Are we rolling? A couple days later, we were back at Crossroads and one of the staff asked us if we wanted to go hang out with the girls while they spent some time.

[A]

Yeah. Crossroad is built around a central courtyard where the kids are sometimes allowed to go and hang out. It's a little like a fishbowl. All these windows face it, and there's not much there, you know, a few picnic tables, some plants, some cement.

[B]

One of the first things we noticed was that the two Yaya's were sitting there. And they weren't just sitting there, they were like hanging on each other, whispering and laughing. Like two sisters is getting along really well.

[A]

I guess the relationship was back on track, at least on that day. Oh my God.

[B]

We're looking at two Yaya's. Wait a minute. They were so close to each other. Hello. Hi, friends.

[C]

Hello.

[B]

How are you?

[C]

Good to see you.

[B]

What are you guys doing hanging out together? Thank you for having a nice conversation.

[C]

Gordon, can you tell them bring some water.

[B]

So there are about 10 girls hanging out in this courtyard. Earlonne. I remember it was so hot, right? There was like no shade.

[A]

Yeah, they weren't doing much, so we just sat down at one of the tables.

[B]

What do you do when you're out here?

[C]

Not that we sit here. Sometimes we listen to music looking at Each other's face, eat and just chop it up.

[A]

We asked him, are there any 18 year olds out here who might be willing to talk to us?

[B]

Yeah. And they pointed to this one girl sitting alone on the other side of the courtyard. And I think she was maybe eating her lunch.

[A]

Yep, she was.

[C]

Yo, Ken. What up, baby? You want food to lunch? Are you eating your lunch and. I'm not eating my lunch. I'm done.

[B]

You don't want to bring it over?

[C]

What's your name? Kensley. I've been here for five months now. Five months.

[A]

And what is it? What is this place like?

[C]

It's a little color. It's sad. I don't want to be here, that's all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We weren't really sure how to approach her.

[A]

Did she want to talk to us? I couldn't tell.

[B]

Do you like being out here? Out in the fresh air? Yeah.

[A]

Oh, that's what's up. And do you go to school here?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so it's just fun. I mean, just hanging out with your partners out here, but you'd rather be at home doing other stuff. Indeed. We won't hold you up. We'll let you get back to you.

[B]

Thank you. Do you want to talk more or.

[C]

Do you want to go talk more?

[B]

Okay. Is there any way you could describe what it looks like out here?

[C]

Lovely style.

[B]

What's like some of the. I don't know any details. What's around you when you look around, what do you see?

[C]

A trap, please. A what?

[B]

A trap, please. A trap place. What about any of the greenery, Any of the plants? Yeah. Do you pay attention to those?

[C]

Yeah, I do.

[B]

I was surprised to see there were tomatoes growing here.

[C]

Yeah, tomato does grow a little bit.

[B]

And lavender.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Tell me it smells good. Most definitely.

[C]

Yeah. You see the one tomato?

[B]

Yeah. Oh, I see a little tomato on the ground. Little baby.

[A]

One baby. Maida.

[B]

Is there anything that's beautiful out here to you? No. I remember this young woman so clearly. It was very difficult to connect with her. I couldn't even tell if she was understanding what we were saying. And just out of desperation as like a way to connect with her. I saw she had this foil from the top of a yogurt. So I just started making little animals out of it with her. Can you make anything interesting out of these? I don't know, something different. Okay, so we're trying to see if we can fold up these little tin foil things into something interesting. See if I can make a house or a horse.

[C]

We can make this oh, okay.

[B]

All right. What is that?

[C]

A whale? Could be a whale. Oh, yeah, it could be a whale.

[B]

This way.

[C]

Maybe a flower or something.

[B]

Yeah, or a little like a swan. All right, let's see if I can make something else. Okay, so she's holding this very carefully. It's a flower, right? Yeah.

[C]

I love flowers.

[B]

I love. We're trying very hard to turn something not so beautiful into something beautiful.

[C]

What is it?

[B]

I'm trying to make a flower. Did it work? Yeah, kinda.

[C]

Want to join our game?

[A]

Yeah, we'll let y' all do y' all thing.

[B]

You have to use your imagination. There's a little baby whale, then that's the house.

[C]

A mom and a baby.

[B]

Exactly. So there's. Yeah, the mom's gonna take care of the little baby whale. So it'll always be safe.

[A]

Always.

[B]

They love each other, even if no one else does. I'm singing this. That's the most entertaining I can be. Our producer, Amy, asked Kensley if there was anyone else at Crossroads we could talk to. But clearly Kensley misunderstood the question and she thought we were asking her if there was anyone she could talk to.

[C]

I talked to my mom, but she don't talk to me. She says she's working.

[B]

No, that's hard. Do you try to call her on the floor phone? Yeah. Is there anyone else you can call? No.

[A]

Oo, that's sad, man.

[B]

I wish I had had something kind or reassuring to say to her, but what is there to say to that?

[A]

Nothing. Yeah.

[C]

Are we ready?

[A]

Any. Any other questions?

[B]

Bye.

[C]

Take care.

[B]

Are we on our way out?

[A]

So we left the courtyard and started walking out of Crossroads. I was pretty discouraged. Felt like you. I needed a martini. So that was a bus.

[B]

But that conversation with Kensley actually stuck with me. It just. It felt important.

[A]

A little while later, we got the chance to ask Big Yaya about Kinsley.

[C]

Hey.

[A]

Hey. We was on y' all yard the last time and it was a. It was a girl out there who seemed like she barely knew where she was at. She was sitting off to by herself for a while.

[C]

Oh, my son Kensley.

[A]

It seemed like. Like she. She don't know why she's in jail. Like she just here, she.

[C]

I'm gonna put it like this. She different.

[A]

She's special.

[C]

She like special in every way. You feel me? I think she's one of, like the reason why I'm not a judgmental person anymore. Like, as I was before.

[A]

It seemed like she's a person that get taken advantage of a lot. Yes, she does all throughout her life, right?

[C]

Like, people get taken advantage of sometimes to the point that they don't even know that they getting used and played with and taken advantage of. When you read what she here for, and you see what she here for, you like, what? You look at her whole different. Like, how can you do that? And you act like this. How is that even possible? I tell everybody this is not the place for her. It's not. She needs help. If I was a judge, I would sound home, give her another opportunity, and.

[A]

Let her know, like, she have a serious case.

[C]

Of course.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And, like, as bad as it is, like, I just. I wish sometimes, like, this place would show the judge not what they read. I want them to actually see, you know, like. Like, cameras to show the judge, like, this person is not. Which I think she is. Whatever she did is eating her up. That shit is real. That shit gonna eat you up. You know, in this place. It's not to help people like her. It's not.

[B]

Indeed.

[A]

Next time on the Loop.

[C]

Hey, y'. All. It's your girl Kasia.

[B]

We meet Kasia in this series, we've been focusing mostly on kids who are incarcerated at Crossroads in Brooklyn. Kaysha's story is a little different.

[A]

We spent a year and a half with Kaysha. We got to know her pretty well. She's not incarcerated, but like all these kids, she's on some kind of loop, which means sometimes she was a little hard to track down.

[B]

Sorry I missed your call.

[C]

Just leave your name, and I'll call you back as soon as possible. Thank you.

[B]

Hey, Keisha, It's Nigel and Earlonne. We're trying to reach you. We're. We're in New York. Give us a call. You have our number. We miss seeing you on this trip. Take care.

[C]

Pull up, Case. Pull up.

[A]

Where you at?

[B]

That's coming up. Next time on the Loop.

[A]

Our count time this week comes from the California Institution for Women, AKA ciw.

[B]

Where for the last six months, we've been doing our first storytelling class.

[A]

There's a group of women there who are learning about audio recording, doing interviews, and telling audio stories ear Hustle style.

[B]

Last week, they took their recorders out for a test drive at an annual softball game between incarcerated people and correctional officers.

[A]

Well, that's what they thought was gonna happen.

[C]

Okay. I'm Natalie d'. Amola. I'm an ear hustler. And right now, we're on the field. The staff didn't show up.

[A]

Imagine that.

[C]

They didn't show up? No, they canceled. What? It's okay. Cause if you didn't show up, that means you lost. You forfeited. Yes. 20, 25 is a win because they forfeited. And this is our first win. It's 10:36. And right now, they just divided the teams of IPs into half. Because we're still gonna play no matter what. Champions. You should be the champions.

[B]

Champions.

[C]

Champions. Okay, so we got the Champions versus the Leviathans. So let's see who's gonna win. It's the Champions up to bat. There's a girl really swinging that bat like she's serious. What up, Ear Hustle?

[B]

It's Chyna.

[C]

The time is exactly 11:01.

[B]

And it's quiet. It's quiet.

[C]

Everybody's anticipating the first hit.

[B]

She hits it, and it goes down the line in between third and second base.

[C]

Swing better.

[B]

Better swing.

[C]

And she hits it. Oh, they almost caught it. I'm Bea. I'm with Ear Hustle. How do you feel about the fact that the COs didn't want to come.

[B]

And play us today?

[C]

I feel like they knew they was.

[A]

Going to get whooped, so they didn't.

[C]

Want to come out here and play with us. They played last year, though. What happened last year? Oh, we got whipped. I'm not going to lie right now. We have someone up to bat. Come on, Zola. And there she goes, there she goes, there she goes. Running, running on. She's out.

[B]

One, two, three strikes.

[C]

They're out at the home ball game.

[B]

So you look like maybe you slid into home plate.

[C]

Is that what happened? I slid into third. I'm wearing a white shirt that's no longer white anymore. But hey, yes, we're all having fun. It's an amazing sport, and I love it.

[B]

So what would it have meant to you personally to have beaten the CEOs?

[C]

Oh, everything.

[A]

Everything.

[C]

Meeting the CEOs would have been, like, the best amazing feeling ever. Honestly, I'm really waiting to play against them because it's.

[B]

It's rare for us to play the.

[C]

CEOs any other time. It actually makes the community stronger. It makes us incarcerated people understand them. It makes us build a better rapport with them. You know, we wish them the best, and hopefully they come along one day so we could beat them in the softball game. Man. Give us that little satisfaction, you know? The game is over.

[B]

What was the final score?

[C]

The final score was 10 to 1. Wow.

[B]

That's kind of a shutout, right?

[C]

I sure was.

[B]

My name is Kelly. It is 11:35, and I'm clocking out.

[C]

My name's Bea, aka Firecracker, and I'm clocking out with my snow cone.

[B]

This is China from Ear hustle. It is 11:30 and I am clocking out.

[C]

My name is NATALIE and it's 11:30 and I'm no longer ear hustling. I'm minding my own business.

[B]

We just heard Natalie, Bea, China and Kelly from our first cohort at CIW's ear hustle workshop.

[A]

I think I heard our producer Kat Shipneck in there too.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yes. So good looking out and hope to hear more from y' all soon. Ear Hustle would like to thank Adam Brown at the Silberman School of Social Work at Hunter College, the City University of New York, and Joanne Smith darden and Heather McCauley at Michigan State University's School of Social Work for bringing us into this project and for all of their advocacy and support along the way.

[B]

Big thanks too to the Drama Club team including Josie Whittlesey, Cesar Rosado, Tiffany, Tiny Cruz, Abby Pierce, Sophie Jones and Ashley Adams.

[A]

And thanks to Nancy Ginsberg, Ailes Kanzi and Commissioner Danhauser at New York City's Administration for Children's Services for saying yes to this project.

[B]

As always, thank you to to the administrations at San Quentin Rehabilitation center, the California Institution for Women, and at the Central California Women's Facility for their ongoing support of our work.

[A]

Music for this episode is by Darrell Siddiq Davis, David Jassy, Antwan Williams and me. If you want to hear more about the making of this series, check out Ear Hustle plus.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Recently we brought the team into the studio to talk about what it was like, like making this series. You know, the challenges, what surprised us all, behind the scenes stuff.

[A]

That conversation is only on Ear Hustle Plus.

[B]

For full credits and more information about this episode, check out our show notes on Ear Hustle's website, earhustlesq.com this episode.

[A]

Was made possible by the just trust building a smaller, more humane engine of justice and safety across the country.

[B]

You can find us on social media, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok and Bluesky.

[A]

And if you're not already, follow and leave a review for Ear Hustle Wherever you listen to your podcast. Reviews really help us out and they help people find the show.

[B]

Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia from prx, a network of independent creator owned, listener supported podcasts.

[A]

Discover audio with Vision at Radiotopia.

[B]

I'm Nigel Poor.

[A]

I'm Earlonne Woods. Thanks for listening. Radiotopia.

[B]

From prx.