Africa’s Real Estate Boom Is Just Getting Started | How to Invest Safely

Summary

Earn Your Leisure Podcast: “Africa’s Real Estate Boom Is Just Getting Started | How to Invest Safely”

Hosts: Rashad Bilal & Troy Millings
Guest: Real Estate Expert/Entrepreneur based in Dakar, Senegal
Release Date: December 26, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Rashad and Troy dive into the burgeoning African real estate market, with a specific focus on investing safely in regions like Senegal and West Africa. Their guest—a seasoned real estate entrepreneur—shares practical, on-the-ground advice for prospective investors, the outlook for Africa’s property sector, market dynamics, and the crucial steps to avoid common pitfalls.
The episode highlights Africa’s unique opportunities, the importance of due diligence, the rise of the middle class, and the emerging bridge between African and diaspora entrepreneurship.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Starting a Real Estate Journey in Africa

• Career Pivot and Motivation

  • The guest shares his journey: working in hospitality in France, then moving to Dakar, Senegal to make a more meaningful impact.
    • “When you go work in big cities, you just add some small percentage over small percentage... Here, you become a player quickly.” (04:16)
  • The chance to become an influential investor is greater because the market is less saturated and more dynamic for newcomers.

• Market Opportunity

  • "The purchasing power when you’re American and you can put $100,000 in an apartment... and looking at ROI around 10% is not crazy. It’s interesting.” (05:18)
  • Real estate values are increasing; an apartment that cost $80,000 five years ago now costs $110,000-$120,000.
  • High returns: “The return is very high because it’s 23%.” (05:42)

Practical Real Estate Investment Advice

• Cash Purchases vs. Mortgages

  • Most property is bought in cash: “They don’t trust banks that much and they don’t want to be in the system to show their earnings.” (06:23)
  • Mortgages are difficult to secure compared to the US, with significantly higher barriers to entry.

• Avoiding Common Pitfalls

  • “You have to go through the proper channels. It cannot be, you know, a guy who knows a guy... That’s over—forget about this.” (07:41)
  • Invest only through registered real estate agents and notaries; escrow accounts provide safety.
    • “Anybody selling you that kind of ‘I know a guy who knows a guy,’ half the time it’s bullshit.” (07:44)

• Navigating Property Titles

  • Three types of contracts:
    1. Temporary permission from the city (mayor),
    2. Leasehold (often 50–99 years),
    3. Permanent title (“titre foncier”)—the gold standard that ensures legal ownership. (09:20-10:18)
  • “If you are a foreigner... ask for the official title… it’s impossible for anybody to get that land from you except if he gives you money in exchange.” (09:49)

Understanding Market Dynamics

• Location, Supply, and Demand

  • Dakar’s real estate is constrained by geography (“almost island”), so coastal property is appreciating fast, though rents remain stable. (11:07)
  • For local tenants, proximity to work and schools often outweighs ocean views. (12:03)

• Targeting the Right Demographic

  • The biggest growth lies in addressing the needs of the middle class and youth, rather than just luxury niches. (21:55; 23:11)
    • “Anything that has to do with the youth and the next generation... is a big matter and topic.”
    • "What can we do for the middle class? What are the mass market products that I can create for that middle class?” (23:11)

Entrepreneurship, Education, and Information Gaps

• Knowledge Sharing

  • Accessibility of information is a major challenge.
    • “There is a shortage of accessing information—succession, how to build your real estate LLC, what you should do when you get your first money... Accessing information in Africa is definitely key.” (15:23)

• Raising Awareness

  • More creators and platforms are needed to bridge the US-Africa gap. (21:08)
    • “Awareness brings level of expectations, brings a level of performance—when people know, then you cannot easily get around their knowledge... there is a void in what you guys are doing.” (21:11)

Safe Investment Strategies

• Avoiding “Ego” Investments

  • Warns against ostentatious projects: “Real estate and hospitality are huge platforms for ego assets... I’m the biggest player in town, I want the biggest building, even though it doesn’t respond to a need.” (24:02)
  • Focus on due diligence, demand, safety, and execution, not vanity projects.

• Execution Over Innovation

  • “Innovation and new ideas, let’s say, it’s okay, but the most important is the quality of your execution. Can you execute... can you gather around you the good guys to work with you... Execution is key.” (25:31)

Wealth, Lifestyle, and Costs

• What’s Middle Class and “Rich” in Africa?

  • Middle class: “In Ivory Coast... middle class [is] from $1,000 to even $1,500, $2,000 [per month]... a guy that makes $1.5K here lives significantly better than a guy that makes $1.5K in France.” (26:14)
  • A US income of $100,000/year puts you “well off” in Africa: “With that kind of money, you’re–you’re well off here. Really.” (28:46)

• Cost of Living

  • Entry-level salaries are low ($200–250/month), so foreign income goes far.
  • Even $5,000/month from remote work “and you make that kind of money, you can invest, you can... you’re doing really good.” (29:06-29:13)

Hospitality Background

• Translating Hospitality Skills to Real Estate
  • The guest reflects on how anticipation, execution, and leadership learned in hospitality now apply to his real estate ventures.
    • “Execution is the first thing. Anticipation... Leadership and smart, anticipating leadership is key.” (29:47)
  • Importance of understanding Africa’s diversity: “It’s overrated to talk about ‘Africa’... we need to get in that point where we say Dakar, Abidjan, Nyame, Nairobi, etc.” (31:17)

Regional Market Preferences & Stability

• Investor Recommendations
  • Markets with recent political stability such as Benin, Morocco, and Guinea are highlighted for their impressive growth and opportunity. (34:32)
    • “The first gift we should wish for Africa is political stability, regime stability... When you give them stability, it skyrockets.” (34:45)
  • Morocco’s rapid development is praised: “Every five years I go there and I say, ‘What’s going on? How are they able to execute that quick?’” (35:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Anybody selling you that kind of ‘I know a guy who knows a guy,’ half the time it’s bullshit.”
  — Real Estate Expert (07:44)

• “You have to go through the proper channels... If you have money, you go through the official channels, everything’s gonna be fine for you.”
  — Real Estate Expert (07:41)

• “The gold standard is the permanent title... it’s impossible for anybody to get that land from you except if he gives you money in exchange.”
  — Real Estate Expert (09:49)

• “Awareness brings level of expectations, brings a level of performance; when people know, you can’t get around their knowledge.”
  — Real Estate Entrepreneur (21:10)

• “Innovation... is okay, but the most important is the quality of your execution. Execution is key.”
  — Real Estate Expert (25:31)

• “With $100,000, you’re well off here. Really.”
  — Real Estate Expert (28:46)

• “Let’s not only focus on luxury goods, let’s also learn how to manufacture mid-scale range projects or even mass market products.”
  — Real Estate Expert (33:44)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [04:10] — Why move from Europe to Africa for business?
• [05:18] — Concrete numbers: apartment ROI and appreciation
• [06:23] — Cash vs. mortgages; banking challenges
• [07:34 – 08:30] — Safe buying process & notary example
• [09:20 – 10:18] — Types of title/ownership & why “permanent title” matters
• [11:07] — Impact of geography on value in Dakar
• [13:17] — What’s the safest investment for new/foreign investors?
• [15:23] — Education, access, and information challenges
• [21:10] — Role of content creation and bridging US-Africa
• [21:55; 23:11] — The youth, middle class, and “mass market” opportunity
• [24:02–25:31] — “Ego investments” and why execution matters
• [26:14] — What is considered middle class and “rich” in West Africa
• [29:47] — Hospitality skills that translate to entrepreneurship
• [31:17] — Africa’s diversity and traveler market shift
• [34:32–35:45] — African countries with strong growth and stability
• [36:43] — Importance of the growing connection between African diasporas

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Africa’s real estate market has vast, accessible opportunities for those who do their homework and follow formal, legal channels.
• The true boom is driven by the rise of the middle class and need for mass market solutions—not luxury alone.
• Political stability and safe, documented ownership are non-negotiable for serious long-term investment.
• Execution trumps innovation—build with local needs, strong teams, and attention to detail.
• The need for information bridges between continents is opening exciting entrepreneurial doors.

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This summary skips all non-content, advertisements, and sponsor segments to focus solely on actionable, insightful discussions from the episode’s main content.

Transcript

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[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

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[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

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[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

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This episode is brought to you by pnc bank a lot of people think podcasts about work are boring and sure they definitely can be but understanding a professional's routine shows us how they achieve their success little by little and day after day it's like banking with pnc bank it might seem boring to save plan and make calculated decisions with your bank but keeping your money boring is what helps you live a more happily fulfilled life pnc bank brilliantly boring since eighteen sixty five brilliantly boring since eighteen sixty five is a service mark of the pnc financial service group inc pnc bank national association member fdic when i did the podcast with you all i was telling you probably the most impactful interview i've done in my.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Career heroes like real heroes i heard.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

Rashad detroit talk about the tax letter.

[Financial Services Advertiser / Moderator]

About finance but we talk in a language that is common to the people.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

That'S from the community that we grew.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

Up with you all are the bright spot thank you real estate thank you and entrepreneurship for black americans this is.

[Financial Services Advertiser / Moderator]

The knowledge that actually matters i applaud.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

Both of you for this thank you.

[Financial Services Advertiser / Moderator]

Isn'T a a country issue it's not an american issue it's a world issue.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

He came to earn our leisure.

[Odoo Advertiser]

So.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

How you how you like get started specifically in africa like doing this like.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

The relationship when i was doing hospitality and running a hotel in south of france i told myself either i go to canada to work at the sofitel at montreal or they offered me to come to dakar to work at the novotel hotel here in dakar and i wanted to feel like home i wanted to feel like i had an impact because when you go work in big cities you just add some small percentage over small percentage and you're just a number they replace you when you come here you become a player quickly so it's a bigger playground more interesting and then you can actually become a carnegie of your area you can become a big investor whereas it's not impossible in big countries but the struggle you have to go through the difficulties whatever you go through is too much headaches compared to the reward and here you feel home and where are you originally from have you new york yeah both new yeah.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

That'S beautiful beautiful country definitely you see there's a lot that still has to be done but that's opportunity yeah.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Lots of opportunity and the purchasing power when you're an american and you can put one hundred ground in an apartment and looking at roi around ten percent is not crazy it's interesting so like.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

One hundred thousand and get you an.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Apartment here yeah it can get you a one bedroom apartment and now it's more running around one hundred ten one hundred twenty it keeps growing the two i have one bedroom apartment i bought them eighty thousand each five years ago now they go around eighty one hundred ten something but the return is very high because it's twenty three percent how much is the rent it's in us two thousand approximately two thousand dollars so twenty four a year so around in this area in this area it's going to be more like one point five.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

One point six do people buy cash or they get mortgages.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

In africa they like cash they don't trust banks that much and they don't want to be in the system to show their earnings to show traceability so that they can leverage funds and bank system here is very tough like in us mortgage is like nothing you work a little and then you get it here you have to kill somebody to get the to get the mortgage yeah it's very tough interest rate let's say it's eight seven eight no it's not that but for for african market when you get the twenty four percent ri you borrow money at eight makes sense.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

It makes a.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Lot of sense makes sense but we need to be careful and resist the urge to be in the formal kind of mentality and be rushing to buy land to buy apartment without thinking ahead that's the issue some people like they see the excitement and instead of taking the time they go into formal mode and then you hear stories oh he came he brought fifty k down payment and now he's never heard about his fifty k more again you have to.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

Be careful let's talk about that because that's something that a lot of people are kind of nervous of like how do you avoid that yeah you have.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

To go through the proper channels it cannot be you know a guy who knows a guy and he's going to help you out that's over forget about this anybody selling you that kind of let's say i know a guy who knows a guy half the time it's bullshit yeah you don't need to know a guy if you have money you go through the official channels everything's going to be fine with you official channels.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

Would be like a real estate agent.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Yeah real estate agent a notary agent for example we sold this penthouse here to an american guy in texas.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

Top.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

One seven hundred k and he insisted to go through the notary we went through the process we put the money in escrow account and no problem you know and he was insisting in procedures.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

Which was good how big is that.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

It was about two hundred fifty square meter with a big balcony and you have a beautiful sea view from there to the ocean yeah.

[Financial Services Advertiser / Moderator]

Is this building.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Sold out fifty percent sold out but the company i run because we are family investment fund and we don't depend on the sale to finish the property so we don't rush out to sell because we want to finish it and to sell at the highest price expected whereas when you need money you sell quickly early stage of the project to make sure you have the cash and then you build with the cash you've been given by the clients how's the.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

Like is it like the land lease is it a land lease good question.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

You have like three types of contracts one that is called i don't know in english deliberation is like the mayor of city says if you have a project i will give you this land once you build the project we can make the paperwork so that you can get the official documents then you have the lease this is maybe fifty years ninety nine years once you have a real project then you can ask for a permanent title and then you have the permanent title which is something that you should always ask if you are foreigner you come from outside africa ask for the official title what's the permanent title it's like titre functier and it's like it's registered in the african constitution that it's yours forever regardless of the president regardless of the law it's impossible for anybody to get that land from you except if he gives you money.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

In exchange is that only in this.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Country or no a lot of countries every notary whenever there is a notary he has the power because he's a subsidiary of the state's power so he can say okay we sign together it's yours no matter what that's why always go through even the money you give never give it hand to hand to anybody even if i sell you an apartment don't give me to me find a notary because legally speaking he has the required he's required to do the due diligence if he doesn't do it it's on him how competitive is this.

[Financial Services Advertiser / Moderator]

Market like this area i think with all this coastal property the appreciation for the land alone has to be going.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Up you know well yeah dakar is like an almost island yeah contrary to ivory coast abidjan which is a land city abidjan is growing like this exponentially without limit dakar is constrained to the top of the ocean so that everything on this coast is like miami style let's say the coast then it's going high high high high because it's impossible to go to like in dubai you cannot go in the water so yeah prices are going high however rented rent are being stable that's why you have to be careful and start thinking ahead in in a world where competition is high lots of supply lots of apartments which are the ones that your tenants will pick the first and this is where you have to invest are most.

[Financial Services Advertiser / Moderator]

People more likely to go closer to the water or is it just something.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

That'S walking distance so let's say they're going to look at schools schools and business districts in senegal water is not something that deep because they are used to it in cabo verde water is not that deep so but for expats dot com comma water is a small factor but they will not compromise distance work distance for water so how far away from the business district here something to know dakar is split into two areas where you are in numen azalai it's the middle that you're in the middle you can go both ways here you're in almady area the other side is business district area so there is its own life here business district etcetera and there is its own life over there it's very rare that you have somebody that lives here and go in the morning works over there is like one one one hour and a half they're not going to do it they're going to find a way to live here and work here live there and work there unless you really have to.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

So like for people what's the biggest opportunity you think just in africa period right now for like the average the average person that wants to invest in.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Africa good question well because of the operation risks i cannot recommend let's say agriculture industry manufacturing those are opportunities but the operational risk are too high so your money is too much at risk so for me i will focus on real estate because of let's say the stability and the predictability of it you invest in farming if and you don't live here you have no idea whatever the guy is doing with your money how serious he is is he selling at the right price is he producing at the right price his employees are they being legally contracted etcetera etc so i would say for this configuration it's realistic then if you let's say come from the us and then you want to come and start to live here then i would be open to any kind of business you can go into hospitality there is an american woman here she's not american but she studied in the us a lot of times she has two hotels here they're working let's say services also i think we just met with her i had lunch today and yesterday at her restaurant in fan she's great swadu so hospitality is okay let's say financial service also is okay raising money if you have the ability to raise us money and bring it to africa then you can make a lot of money but again you have to find a way to make this money safe as well so it's a headache also people say oil and gas but can the common person go in oil and gas so for me when you have a fifty k to two hundred k real estate so for entrepreneurs.

[Financial Services Advertiser / Moderator]

That are here in senegal obviously you studied and you studied in paris paris yeah came here what does it look like for young entrepreneurs are there people like yourself that are talking to young people here to educate them on the process of real estate.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Well i have for instance i will take my example i have my platform with my podcast and the reason why i wanted to create that podcast is because one of the things in the black community is that there is a shortage of information it's not that we don't have the resources it's not that we don't have the opportunity or the skills there is a shortage of accessing information succession how to build your real estate llc what you should do when you get your first money what do you do with it do you spend it on let's say expandable goods or do you invest in land in properties etcetera and accessing information in africa is definitely key definitely key so more and more platform are doing this let's say in ivory coast in senegal also it's starting some of them in france also are starting but we still need more ernest what's up.

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[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Com lenovo lenovo more we need more and more content creator to bring awareness and awareness bring level of expectations brings a level of performance when people know then you cannot easily get around their knowledge and let's say light them sounds like another opportunity absolutely information what you guys are doing there is a void in what you guys are doing the bridge between africa and america let's say north america at large has to still be fulfilled.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

Yeah one hundred percent what do you think this country will be like in ten years in the whole continent like in ten years how do you think this is going to look.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

In ten years let's say first thing that i want to mention is that the african continent is a very young continent so anything that has to do with the youth and the next generation whether it's communication whether it's technology whether it's education whether it's housing everything that has to do with the young people getting older it's a big let's say matter and topic also the growing of the middle class we've known a gap between let's say the lesser revenues kind of population and the high high high revenues there is a big discrepancy between the two and now if we take the example of ivory costs this gap is getting smaller and smaller you have a middle class that is now starting to require services requiring quality experience restaurants clothes and they no longer want to only look at the west to say okay i have a little money i will spend it in paris i will spend it in new york what can i do if i'm a senegalese and travel to ivory coast i'm an ivory coast and travel to senegal what can i have as a product so the middle class and every service you can do for the middle class is very important and also what i want to mention is that when you want to invest in africa most people let's say will focus on luxury goods luxury service and only high level which is a niche and it's getting crowded in that niche what can we do for the middle class what are what are the mass market products that i can create for that middle class when you travel.

[Financial Services Advertiser / Moderator]

To different countries you said benin cote d' ivoire morocco as obviously real estate developer but also as a consultant yeah what are the things that you were advising them in based on the countries.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Well if we focus on real estate the first thing i would tell my big investors or the state i advise is to run away from ego investment let's say real estate and hospitality are huge platform for ego assets i'm the biggest player in town i want the biggest building i'm the biggest player in town i want the biggest tower even though it doesn't respond to a need so the first thing i say is make sure you do your due diligence in the market you're going to tackle i know it's a basic it seems basic but you have no idea how much ego investment is big here so if you want to invest in let's say residential real estate where are the schools where are the work centers where are the shops what time does it take to go from this point to the other point is it safe what are the rents how much did you have to invest to produce that rent and when you sort out all those questions already that's a big big big investment and also i advise them to focus on people again it seems like a basic but school and education and professionalism is a very paramount stake for africa if you want to build your factory your hotel your project an engineering company construction company you're going to spend most your time creating skill automatization reporting process you will spend all your time in the basics not in the fancy stuff of the branding the naming the innovation that's easy so the last thing i would say is that in africa innovation and new ideas let's say it's okay but the most important is the quality of your execution can you execute can you go from point a to point b can you gather around you the good guys to work with you can you report can you follow process can you help other people follow process execution is key.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

The middle class like how much do you how much does the middle class make and and good.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Question it's hard to have numbers let's say but what i've observed based on my previous occupations is that in let's say in ivory costs you can have middle class targeting from one thousand us to even one point five thousand two thousand and for ivory costs then it's a nice kind of living you cannot have access to the best real estate property with that kind of money but you can have a very good living for rent and for everything i even question that a guy that makes one point five here lives significantly better than a guy that makes one point five in france significantly better us or euros.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

Thousand thousand thousand five hundred dollars yeah.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

One point five thousand dollars a month.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

A month that's how much money they.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Make yeah you can have that you.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

Can live off of that yeah definitely.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Yeah yeah definitely yeah yeah imagine that let's say the common salaries that you find in restaurants in the hotels in construction work is around roughly two hundred and two hundred and fifty euros us a month yes for construction for construction entry level i mean for waiting tables entry level jobs those are numbers yeah so when you reached one thousand if.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

You make one thousand dollars a month you're in the middle class it's hard.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

To define let's say because we don't have the right stats but you're good enough that you can start to invest to save and that's why you have to be smart because most people who have salary gap positive salary gap instead of keeping the same lifestyle and the extra is for saving or investing all of a sudden they change lifestyle how.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

Much money do you need to be rich here monthly or just or just in general yeah somebody it's like so because i'm asking because people think a lot some people are thinking about moving to africa okay and in america they might be middle class yeah but here they might they might be rich right.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

What is the the middle class let's say salary for new york is crazy but let's say america just america america.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

I would say one hundred thousand dollars.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

With that kind of money you're you're well off here really yeah single person.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

Or family i mean you're saying like in middle america if you got like.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Even if you have two household and you make that kind of money you have a business that can be operated from distance and then you work from here and you make that kind of money yeah you can invest you can.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

If you make let's say five thousand dollars a month yeah then you're you're.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Doing good yeah you're doing really good.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

You'Re wealthy no you're not wealthy but.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

You'Re doing good yeah you're doing good because you have a wealthy class here that i believe is in the same level as the wealthy class wherever you yeah in france or in us is not like let's say common but you can find some of them so you.

[Financial Services Advertiser / Moderator]

Said you started in hospitality so now i want to reverse engineer it there's somebody right now that's working in hospitality maybe at the noon what were you taking notes on what were you learning that you're implementing now okay.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

In hospitality i learned the execution if you have a group of twenty person that comes to your hotel in twenty minutes they want their rooms they don't want to talk to you they don't want excuses they're tired they're hot you need to deliver there is an ending time and that is something that helped me a lot to help my team reach that level of demanding expectation that no excuses and when you work in hospitality no excuse is possible there is a human being that will come to you shout at you be mad at you right now you cannot invent something so execution is the first thing anticipation like i don't believe that's my philosophy that you can have bad employees but you can have negligent leadership for example if you as a leader you make sure you prepare your team to anticipate to ask the right question to implement the right moves and as well you make sure you accept the demand that you can respond to because some business owner just for the appetite of the revenue then they will say okay yes come in i can accept you i can welcome you but you can't it's better you say okay look i can welcome only fifty of you not one hundred of you and do it well then say okay come the hundred and then be shouting at your team because they're unable to perform at the hundred people you wanted to welcome so leadership and smart and anticipating leadership is key and lastly something that is very important is to adapt to many cultures i think it's overrated to talk about africa now you have north africa and you have many north africa you have west africa and you have many in west africa and in central africa and south africa east africa when you work in hospitality then you see all of those culture combining and working together and you know how to adapt to each and every one of them so one thing that we should do is to limit our reference and i do it myself also all the time as africa and start being more precise and like we say we say new york we say miami then we need to get in that point where we say dakar abidjan nyame nairobi et cetera et cetera point taken but i'm the first one who's still also doing.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

I think that it has power both ways like it has power as a collective africa yeah but it also has power like you said of just not looking at it as one either because for people when something happens in one place then it's just like something happens in congo then it happens like that's how people are thinking like that's what it's like they don't understand it's like it could be an eight hour flight it'd be the same thing like if something happened in mexico you wouldn't be looking at new york city that's.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

A very key point let me emphasize on something let's say twenty years ago in hospitality in africa let's say ivory coast senegal ghanaian sixty five percent to seventy percent of your travelers were european or north american sixty five to seventy percent the drawback of that is that they are very sensitive to changes in reputation changes in landscape changes in political landscape etcetera you hear about COVID everybody leaves ebola everybody leaves political issue everybody leaves africa now there is a shift where now about sixty percent of your travelers come from africa north africa ivory coast senegal mali the gambia ghana nigeria which means that exactly what you said when a guy from nigeria hears about a conflict in let's say lome is not going to be scared to go to abidjan he knows the landscape which is something that is very good for us to have our own autonomous local market that is very very important and it's growing now that's why i'm saying let's not only focus on luxury goods let's also learn how to manufacture let's say mid scale range projects or even mass market products.

[Financial Services Advertiser / Moderator]

Which which markets do you like outside of dakar obviously you brought up ivory coast so i think abidjan is definitely one conqueror we were just there in guinea what markets in west africa are there some in east africa as well you mentioned nairobi we've.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Been there let's say from a very subjective standpoint because also i'm from haiti both my parents although i've never been and bena has been doing a really great work for the last ten years the president has officially announced that he will leave democratically and which is a big step for african countries the african countries are so much in the appetite to develop then when you give them stability it skyrockes so the first gift we should wish for africa is political stability regime stability and benin has shown that and binet is doing a crazy great work with the new sofitel hotel with the events they do at the end of the year every end of december which is very very very high demand and great events if you love music they have also oida where they do the vodun days also is a great work the city is very clean and let's say also i look at gynea right now i know you've been there recently and also there is a huge appetite to build to develop and they are very very ambitious you spoke to tion i think recently and is an exemplification of that let's say i've been impressed with morocco i've been impressed with morocco i was in morocco twenty years ago fifteen years ago ten years ago every five years i go there and i say what's going on how are they able to execute that quick their vision i'm impressed with that the malls the hotels how clean it is it's not perfect as you can hear recently there are some protests and nothing is perfect but when you look from an outside point of view i can see from a subjective point of view the progress let's say those are the countries i'm looking at right now.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

Well thank you man thank you for taking your time appreciate you thank you for taking your time really got a lot of great insight from this man my.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

Pleasure and i'm very happy because i have my cousins in the us historians new jersey in new york in boston in miami and i'm always happy when they ask about africa and they want to discover their roots because let's say twenty years ago it was not something that was obvious for a black american to say i'm from africa and now i don't know if it's thanks to the afrobeats thanks to the marketing thanks to wakanda thanks to i don't know but it's becoming more and more trendy to say i'm from africa i don't mind the reason the key is that we're we're getting together and the ability for black african and black american and black french to come together as a whole and to collaborate as a high scale without unhealthy competition that's the main asset that we can wish for us one hundred percent all plays a part.

[Interviewer / Co-host]

It'S important appreciate it man pleasure thank.

[Financial Services Advertiser / Moderator]

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Ten athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental mental breaking points you are.

[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

The fittest of the fit only one of you will leave here with an.

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[Real Estate Expert / Entrepreneur]

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