Charlamagne Tha God Breaks Silence on $200M iHeart Deal - Truth About Podcasting, Power & Ownership

Summary

Earn Your Leisure Podcast

Episode: Charlamagne Tha God Breaks Silence on $200M iHeart Deal - Truth About Podcasting, Power & Ownership

Release Date: February 5, 2026
Hosts: Rashad Bilal, Troy Millings
Guest: Charlamagne Tha God

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Episode Overview

This special episode features Charlemagne Tha God opening up about his widely reported $200 million iHeart deal, offering clarity on what these public numbers actually mean, sharing deep insights on the nature of power, platform-building, and ownership in media, as well as his strategy for empowering Black creatives in podcasting, publishing, and beyond. The conversation dives into the evolution of podcasting, the real economics and politics behind media deals, and the lessons learned moving from talent to executive across audio, publishing, and film.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The $200M iHeart Deal: Myth, Structure, and Ownership

• Deal Clarification

  • Despite headlines announcing a "$200 million iHeart deal," Charlamagne repeatedly downplays the numbers:

    "I don't know nothing about no numbers... it's not about numbers." (06:28)

  • The deal is multi-faceted: It covers roles as CEO of Black Effect and talent on The Breakfast Club, with multi-year commitments.
    • "I'm a 51% owner of the Black Effect Podcast Network. That's on paper." (12:24)

• On Announcing Deal Amounts

  • Media often inflates or speculates on deal values for headlines. Charlamagne prefers privacy:

    "I never want anybody to know what I was [making]...I don’t ever want anybody to know." (11:14)

• Power through Joint Ventures

  • Real equity and ownership, not just figurehead status, is key:

    "I'm a JV-type of guy...where’s the joint venture at?" (13:29)

• Navigating Corporate Partnerships

  • Success is leveraging the "machine" (iHeart) for resources and learning, not seeing partnership as a sellout.

    "We get in these machines…to learn from them, to utilize the infrastructure and the resources...I don't understand when you are—and I'm not trying to throw them under the bus—but when you're a Kanye West and you get into business, that's crazy...I always look at the Oprah model." (33:27)

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Podcasting: Evolution, Monetization & Celebrity Culture

• Building Audience vs. Monetizing

  • Many Black creators can build an audience but struggle with monetization; iHeart's sales infrastructure bridges this gap.

    "We know how to build an audience. We just don't necessarily know how to monetize an audience." (16:40)

• Audio vs. Video: Where’s the Money?

  • Audio is still the primary revenue driver:

    "Audio [is more important]. That's where the money is now. Video podcasting is new...starting to make money now because people are licensing the content." (21:16)

• Role of Video Licensing (Netflix, YouTube)

  • New Netflix deals are licensing opportunities, not ownership. Creators keep video rights and can cut separate deals.

    "It's just straight licensing. That's the beauty of this business...you can make money off your audio over here, video over there..." (26:00)

• Daily vs. Weekly Podcasts: Distribution Matters

  • Consistency and frequency (e.g., Breakfast Club's daily model) can give shows an edge on platforms like Netflix vs. weekly podcasts (41:18)

• Podcasting Syndication & Back Catalogs

  • The future may include Seinfeld-style syndication revenue for podcasting's deep catalogs.

    "Yes, if you got the right catalog…that’s going to be a thing. Because Netflix isn't just acquiring podcasts that exist, they're launching original podcasts as well." (47:08)

• The Impact of Celebrity Podcasting

  • Charlamagne believes “celebrity podcasting ruined the game,” with inflated deals that didn't match real numbers:

    "Celebrity podcasting ruined the game...People’s names did cause a lot of these podcasters to dump a lot of money fast." (48:04)

• Virality vs. Real Numbers

  • Virality does not always translate to sustainable or high audio download numbers.

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Ownership, Power, and Platform-Building

• Empowering Creators

  • Black Effect now has 60+ shows, over 100 creators.

    "Between Black Effect and SBH with Kevin [Hart] and Black Privilege Publishing, yeah, easily [over 120 creatives]." (69:54)

• Parallel in Publishing

  • Charlamagne’s book imprint (Black Privilege Publishing) focuses on empowering other authors rather than maximizing his own profits:

    "I don’t make any money off publishing people’s books because all the money goes to the author, as it should." (64:50)

• Film & Franchising

  • Charlamagne is now invested in film (Southland Films) and fast-food franchising (Crystals), connecting with partners who have proven track records (e.g., John Wick producer Basil Iwanyk, 2 Chainz).

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Media Power, Political Influence & Platform Responsibility

• Role as a Cultural Gatekeeper

  • With platforms like The Breakfast Club, Charlamagne recognizes his power to shape narratives and influence tens of millions.

    "We have the ears of tens of millions of people all the time. I'm not gonna always be right, but I'm at least try to be as informed as possible." (75:07)

• On Political Critique and Pushback

  • Staying true to informed discourse—even when mischaracterized by media as pushing partisan agendas:

    "What I realized is that those people who write those kinds of articles don’t really have a lot of conversations with a diverse group of Black people.” (79:29)

• Interviewing Controversial Figures

  • Platforming does not mean endorsement; hosts should allow debate and pushback:

    "These guys [controversial figures] already have massive platforms. You're not giving Ben Shapiro…a platform." (77:07)

• Navigating Fame and Political Targeting

  • After a Trump tweet attacking him, Charlamagne took it in stride:

    "It’s just like anything else. You wake up...then you take a deep breath and you like, this what you...this is what you signed [up for]." (95:16)

    • He notes the hidden risks, like difficulties getting insurance after public controversies.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Ownership:

  "I'm a 51% owner of the Black Effect Podcast Network. That's on paper. That's not, you know, something that I'm just saying because it sounds good."
  (12:24, Charlamagne Tha God)

• On Celeb Podcasting:

  "Celebrity podcasting ruined the game. People's names did cause a lot of these podcasters to dump a lot of money fast."
  (48:04, Charlamagne Tha God)

• On Being in the "Machine":

  "We get in these machines…to learn from them, to utilize the infrastructure and the resources."
  (33:27, Charlamagne Tha God)

• On Not Gatekeeping Guest Access:

  "I grew up watching Barbara Walters and Diane Sawyer and Oprah...the grand wizard of the KKK would be on those shows...I just never understood [not interviewing anyone]."
  (76:29, Charlamagne Tha God)

• On His Pivot from 'Villain':

  "I pivoted because...I started to realize, like, I felt like I was punching down...Now, if I ever get to the point where I'm really sick of this, I just won't do it no more. I'm not gonna be on the radio shitting on Soulja Boy. Why?"
  (91:27, Charlamagne Tha God)

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Notable Segment Timestamps

• Charlamagne Downplays the $200M Headline & Explains Deal Structure (06:28–13:08)
• Explains Joint Ventures & Ownership with Black Effect/iHeart (13:08–16:19)
• Monetizing Black Podcasts/Role of iHeart's Sales Team (16:40–19:01)
• Audio vs. Video Monetization & Rise of Licensing Deals (21:15–26:00)
• On Netflix Licensing vs. Ownership of Video IP (24:13–26:00)
• Consistency, Routines & Podcasting Models (Daily vs. Weekly) (41:18–43:02)
• Value of Content Back Catalog/Syndication Potential (45:30–47:08)
• Limits of Celebrity Podcasting & Real Numbers (48:04–49:44)
• Book Publishing Insights & Industry Critique (53:35–55:42)
• Empowering Authors & Long-Term Wealth through Publishing (62:31–64:45)
• Building Power through Multiple Ventures (Podcast, Publishing, Film, Fast Food) (68:17–72:42)
• On Political Platforming and Being Targeted (74:33–82:50, 95:07)
• Hip-Hop Radio Personality Top 5 Discussion (82:59–87:26)

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Tone & Vibe

Candid, inspirational, and unapologetically real—Charlamagne is both introspective and instructive, frequently using personal anecdotes to illustrate broader lessons. The conversation balances business acumen with cultural insight, mixing humor, humility, and an educator’s spirit.

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For Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

Charlamagne Tha God’s transparency demystifies the world behind celebrity deals, stresses the importance of genuine ownership, and dispels myths about overnight success in modern media. Whether you’re a creator, entrepreneur, or simply a fan of pop culture business, this is a masterclass in navigating (and owning) your lane.

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“If what you build only benefits you, it’s not big enough.”
—Charlamagne Tha God (71:38)

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Transcript

[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Andrew Schulz]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Andrew Schulz]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Commercial Ad Voice / Narrator]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Commercial Ad Voice / Narrator]

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[Manny Fresh]

Man, we got a lot to talk about, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Let's talk about it.

[Manny Fresh]

Let's not even waste no time, man. First and foremost, congratulations. $200 million. That was the headline.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Trump called me a racist sleazebag with low iq.

[Andrew Schulz]

Is he allowed to say he's the best rapper alive?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

There is no big three, no more. There was a big three.

[Andrew Schulz]

Who is it?

[Manny Fresh]

Youngboy is the only rappers that selling out arenas with cultural audience. Well, all black people there. When Trump had that tweet about you, did that impact you in any way?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I feel like celebrity podcasting ruin the game. Probably gonna retire with iHeart.

[Manny Fresh]

It's like they put the black face on something that's white owned.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, we know how to build an audience. We just don't necessarily know how to monetize an audience. When I did the podcast with you.

[Manny Fresh]

All, I was telling you probably the.

[Andrew Schulz]

Most impactful interview I've done in my career.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm heroes now. Like, real heroes.

[Manny Fresh]

I heard Rashad Detroit talk about the tax lift.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We talk about finance, but we talk.

[Andrew Schulz]

In a language that is common to the people. That's from the communities that we grew up in.

[Manny Fresh]

You all are the bright spot. Thank you, real estate. Thank for black Americans.

[Andrew Schulz]

This is the knowledge that actually matters. I applaud both of you for this.

[Manny Fresh]

Thank you.

[Andrew Schulz]

Literacy isn't a a country issue. It's not an American issue. It's a world issue.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He came to earn our leisure.

[Manny Fresh]

All right, y'. All, welcome back.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Manny Fresh]

Special episode. Man, this is what the people been waiting for. Highly anticipated.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You think so?

[Andrew Schulz]

All the years we've known each other, we never.

[Manny Fresh]

We never had a conversation.

[Andrew Schulz]

Nah, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Get the out of here.

[Manny Fresh]

First time ever. First time ever.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's crazy.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, man. Sometimes you're a rising star. It's tough to catch them. That's great.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I never earned your legion.

[Andrew Schulz]

Shout out to black effect.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I guess because I talk to y' all so much, especially me and shy talk all the time and you know, we. That definitely did Breakfast Club together a million times. I never thought about it.

[Andrew Schulz]

Congratulations.

[Manny Fresh]

Obviously, you did invest fest for us. So we've done a bunch of things, but we never actually had to sit down conversation.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's crazy.

[Andrew Schulz]

Welcome.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Happy to be here, man. Earn your leisure. One of the biggest podcasts in the game. Definitely the biggest financial literacy podcast in the game, without question. You know, I always tell y', all, y' all ushered in. Y' all ushered in the wave of the conversation of financial literacy. I always say, like that Dame Dash interview, How many years ago now?

[Andrew Schulz]

11.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

11 years. Probably at this point, it started a conversation, but nobody ever told people the how. And y' all came in and filled the gap of the how. It's like, yeah, okay, you wanna be your own boss, you wanna be an entrepreneur, but how Y' all came in and filled the how.

[Manny Fresh]

Appreciate that, my brother. And before we start, I wanted to say thank you for always being a strong ally for us as far as the Breakfast Club. Like I said, invest, fest, and just even offline, we talk. As far as, you know, we developed a friendship on our own, but, you know, just been a real solid standup person and have always supported us and helped us, so definitely been a major part in our journey for sure. So thank you.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, I still remember the phone call when you first called, like, hey, we got this network we trying to do. I'm like, yo, Shaade stole him so I can record. I want to hear this.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And we recorded.

[Andrew Schulz]

It was like a moment for us.

[Manny Fresh]

So we were like, Chad 85.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah. Shout out to Chad and Weezy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Chad and Weezy. Chad and Weezy used to sing y' all praises all the time. I mean, I definitely had heard of y', all, but they was like, no, I'm telling you, you need to really tap into what they're doing. What they're doing, nobody else is doing in our space. And I was just like, I'm a reach out.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, it was dope. I was like, yo, that's the home we want to live at, man. That's dope. That was the moment.

[Manny Fresh]

Charlamagne, the guy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, sir.

[Manny Fresh]

Man, we got a lot to talk about, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Let's talk about it.

[Manny Fresh]

Let's not even waste no time, man. First and foremost, congratulations. $200 million. That was the headline.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't know nothing about no numbers.

[Manny Fresh]

Huh?

[Andrew Schulz]

They printed that.

[Manny Fresh]

That was the headline. You already. The numbers has already been published.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't know numbers, though.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The numbers was there.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't know. It's not about numbers.

[Andrew Schulz]

Everybody else in our world, it is about numbers. Kind of is about numbers in our world.

[Manny Fresh]

Well, every. Every. Every world. We just seen Kabi Lane, I think that's how I'm pronouncing his name correctly. The 950 million. I had to actually research what that actually entailed because I'm like a billion dollars. Like what, what does it actually entail? But it, it made me actually research. I got some good information from it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What was it? I saw that too. They said it was for his content or something.

[Manny Fresh]

Yeah. So apparently paraphrasing like, he has a company around his content creation which includes his merch, which includes, you know, his brand endorsement deals, which includes all of the stuff. So they brought equity stake. So it's not a cash deal, it's an equity deal. I think the company is already a publicly traded company and it's like a 36 month deal. They have. They're going to create AI images of him in like different languages, which is ironic because he doesn't talk. So they, but they're gonna. So. So it's like they brought into his whole media company and I guess he got equity in the company and the total deal is valued at like $900 million.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Congratulations to him. Yeah, I never heard him say a word.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, I met, we met him. Yeah, he actually said he spoke to us.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, he does?

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he does speak.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He does speak.

[Manny Fresh]

That's cool. Cool.

[Andrew Schulz]

Because I was like, can we take a picture? I want to send it to my kids. And he was like, sure. And he was like, we were recording it and I was like, wait, he's speaking. Should we. Like this might mess up the brand.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know why I love guys like him? Because I don't know what it is that he does. I don't even think I've ever even heard any of his content. But it doesn't matter. Like, we live in a world where everything is so. It's so niche. But I don't even like that word niche because. No, everybody just has an audience nowadays. Like, there's not one individual that has, you know, just, just one audience that everybody is tuned into. You can be a person that I've never heard of that got like 20 million people checking for you every week. And that's really all you need is that audience. You don't even need 20 million. You can have a million people checking for you. And you know how much a million people is?

[Manny Fresh]

A lot, man. 100,000 people.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

100,000 people, right? Like just, just if 100,000 people was outside this building right now, we'd be trying to national go get us up out of here.

[Manny Fresh]

That's like Michigan Football Arena.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

See what I'm saying. And it's like, so guys like him, like, they got an audience, and some people know that, and they. They. They tap into. Tap into them and pay for his audience.

[Manny Fresh]

So, yeah, with that being said, all right, so we see a headline. You don't have to break down the whole. But it's. It's done in. It's done in different stages. Right? Like, it's. It's money for the podcast network.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, I don't know why everybody keeps saying. I keep saying that.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's why we here, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. I keep seeing people say that. It's just like, my partner is. I heart. Like, that is who. We already have the infrastructure there.

[Andrew Schulz]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So I don't understand.

[Manny Fresh]

So you just got 200 million scams.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't know nothing about no numbers. Cause, like, I don't know nothing about no numbers.

[Andrew Schulz]

How I looked at it was like, you're ready at iHeart, obviously, through the Breakfast Club Black Effect.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, but you can't speed past that.

[Andrew Schulz]

I don't want. I'm paraphrasing to see, like, what I thought happened in the deal. Right. That encompasses your deal at Breakfast Club. That encompasses perhaps what's happening at Black Effect and maybe some other creative content that will be created in the future.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

100%.

[Andrew Schulz]

Okay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. That's why y' all are eyl, you know. Cause when people talk about Black Effect, they Forget I'm the CEO of Black Effect.

[Andrew Schulz]

Correct.

[Manny Fresh]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What do CEOs get?

[Manny Fresh]

Salary.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Exactly. You know what I'm saying? And I'm also a talent at Breakfast Club.

[Manny Fresh]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What do talents get?

[Manny Fresh]

Salary.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Salary. Yeah. So if you look at, you know, Breakfast Club. Breakfast Club has been around for 15 years. You know, number one nationally syndicated morning show in the country. Right. Like, you know, over the last couple of years, we've been blessed to be number one in all demographics. Like 18 to 24, 18 to 34, 25 to 49. You know, we're in 100 plus markets throughout the country. It's a show that you can take and do all type of licensing deals with, whether it's been with Revolt, whether it's been with Tubi, whether it's been on bet, now we're on Netflix. Like, how much is an anchor of that show worth?

[Andrew Schulz]

The value of it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. Like, you know, you got to think about. Think about that as well. Then you think about a company like Black Effect that is having, you know, tremendous success. You know, congrats.

[Andrew Schulz]

On five years.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Thank you, sir. What is the CEO salary for that? So it's just like that is where, you know, whatever, whatever numbers they're throwing out there.

[Manny Fresh]

But when those numbers get announced, because it's announced. Like when Joe Button announced those numbers, it was done strategically, right? Like even Khabi, like people announced numbers because they want people to know. So when that number gets announced, is that from your side or is that from iheart's side?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't never want nobody to know.

[Manny Fresh]

So you didn't have anything to do with the announcement?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't ever want anybody to know what I was. Forbes salute to Forbes. My guy, Jabari Young, he did the article and I thought it was a deal. I mean, an article highlighting everything that I got going on, it wasn't just about. Cause if you read the article, it is about everything that I got going on. It's not just about I Heart and Black Effect. But just so happened, you know, not only was it the five year anniversary of Black Effect, I was re signing with iHeart. And it's like all of the pieces just in line, like, you know, I did an interview with Axios back in September and the young lady asked me about my deal being up in December and I'm just like, yeah, that was wild. That's a wild question, right? You know what I'm saying? And so I did the same thing I'm doing with y' all now, you know, ducking the question.

[Andrew Schulz]

Here's what was left out of it. And when you compare it to sports, you can see obviously somebody signs for amount, but the time frame. So are you comfortable?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Multi year. Multi year.

[Andrew Schulz]

So that means more than two, but it could definitely.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, definitely more than two. Definitely more than. I think they reported five.

[Andrew Schulz]

They reported that? Yeah. And you say allegedly.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Listen, I'm probably going to retire with iHeartrading. I know I'm gonna retire with iHeart. First of all, iHeart has been, you know, great partners, right? Like, they watched me come in as a talent and, you know, we've grown the Breakfast Club and you know, when I came to them with the idea for the Black Effect five years ago, my deal was up then, you know, and I just wanted to be able to launch a network somewhere. And, you know, iheart already believed in me as a talent. You know, they saw the vision that I have for the network and they gave me something that a lot of these corporations don't give you. Real ownership, real Equity. I'm a 51% owner of the Black Effect. Podcast, network. That's on paper. That's not, you know, something that. I'm just saying because it sounds good.

[Manny Fresh]

Well, let's talk about that, because me and you speak about that a lot as far as educating, really educating our community that partnerships are not bad. You don't have to have a hundred percent ownership in everything. Right. And sometimes that narrative gets put out there, kind of discredit certain individuals.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Manny Fresh]

So talk about your relationship with Iheart and the Black Effect Network.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Listen, I'm a JV type of guy. I'm the type of guy that's like, yo, where's the joint venture at? Like, that's, that's what I want to do. And like I said, Iheart has always believed in me as a talent. You know, I can, you know, go to somebody like Bob Pittman, who's the CEO of the company, go to somebody like Rich Bresler and share with them these ideas. And I mean, they do what anybody who's in those positions and isn't afraid of the next person, you know, they empower me. Right. Like, people only don't empower you when they're afraid. You don't ever notice that, like, you can go to a lot of people who are in positions of power with some great ideas and they'll either want to take it for themselves or, you know, you hear the stories about signing people and putting them on the shelf, like for them to say, you know what, I love that idea, let's do it. Like, they didn't have to do that. Like, if that. And that's why, that's why I hate when people say things like they'd be like, ah, you know, you got the machine behind you. I'm not the first talent to have a machine behind me.

[Manny Fresh]

Or you're the face of something that's, that's a common. Not to you. But I'm just saying, just in general, people say that a lot.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What's wrong with that? Yeah, I think people act like that's.

[Manny Fresh]

A bad thing, but because the narrative is.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, you mean like no real ownership.

[Manny Fresh]

Exactly.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[Manny Fresh]

Or no real power or no real decision making. It's like they put the black face on something that's white owned.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, I'll give you a great story. When five years ago, when I launched Black Effect, like I said, you know, my deal was coming up. Right. About to be up, and radio was in such a different space. Radio didn't see the YouTubes coming and the podcasts coming and all of these different things coming. So there's A lot of different platforms out there that weren't necessarily radio stations, right? Because when you are assigned to a radio station, you have these things called non compete clauses. So you can't talk to other radio stations. But that don't mean you can't talk to other companies, right? Because there's all of these new platforms that exist, whether it's the apples, whether it's the Spotify. I mean, you name them, like all of these different, you know, I guess what you call them tech, tech companies or whatever, right? So they, you know, there was companies that were trying to see where I was at and when I would go in there and, you know, we would talk about these different things, like a podcast network, that's exactly what they wanted to do. They wanted to give you the face. The face. Like, oh, yeah, yeah, you can, yeah, we could do that. But you know, no ownership, snow, equity, you know, we get first right of refusal on, you know, the podcast that you want to bring in. That's why, if you notice, you see there's people that launch those type of situations at other companies. You never saw anything come from it, you know what I'm saying? Like, you never saw anything come from it. And I would be sitting back looking like, oh, that person is just the face, like that person. You know, it's a vanity, a vanity company, right? Like, I didn't want that. I wanted real equity, real ownership. And plus, iheart really, truly is the best place to do that when it comes to audio.

[Andrew Schulz]

You guys, obviously, five years, we were part of the family, but podcasting has changed over the past five years. Monetization standpoint, from a listenership standpoint, why has Black Effect been so selective or successful with their selection? And how has selection changed over the course of the five years since it started?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Man, I think we've been successful because we were first to market. That's number one. And I also think that you gotta really have the right team around you, like being able to go grab my girl Dolly Bishop, who's the president of the network, who's already really good with talent. She's been a manager for different artists, she's been a producer for different artists. She knows just how to, you know, deal with talent. And I think, you know, one thing that we were doing in the as black people in podcasting, like, we know how to build an audience. We just don't necessarily know how to monetize an audience. And that was always my thing. Like, I saw different podcasts that weren't even really podcasts. They were Vodcasts, like, they were putting out their video and their video was doing more than their audio numbers. And I'm like, man, bring your audio over here. Let iHeart's sales team. Cause that's the other thing you gotta remember. Iheart has a massive sales team all throughout the country. Let them come connect the dots, you know, with the advertisers. And we're just going to help to build your audio up, which we did. Like, we don't never have a problem getting in front of these cameras and, you know, bringing people to the YouTubes and what the platforms those are. But when it comes to the listening, that is what a lot of, you know, podcasts, especially with black holes, needed help with. And that's what we did. Like, you know, and we got the great tool of radio. So when you ask how we successful, because we can take, you know, earn your leisure and promote. Earn your leisure on 100 plus markets throughout the country just by, you know, running promos. And a lot of people already know who y' all are, right, because of the podcast, but now they're hearing on the radio. Oh, shoot, yeah. Earn your leisure podcast. I heard about that. You might just go subscribe off the humble.

[Manny Fresh]

And you got the Breakfast Club.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The Breakfast Club. I mean, I mean, come on, man. That's a massive show. It's been a massive show for 15 years. Like, we doing 10 million weekly listeners, right? Then you add in another, I don't know, 15 million audio downloads from the podcast a month. Then you talk about the social media clips in the YouTube and all of that stuff like that. Like, we get a lot of ears. So being able to use that platform along with, you know, all the iHeartradio stations to promote all of the various podcasts, promote, you know, just the black effect as a network, I don't see how we couldn't have had success.

[Andrew Schulz]

You also built individual IP during that time, right? So brilliant idiots that's happening. Are you making that conscious decision, like, hey, in the event that this goes the other way, we still have this IP that we can build upon and eventually combine.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, we've been doing brilliant idiots for 13 years.

[Andrew Schulz]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Me and Andrew show started that podcast 13 years ago for that exact reason. And I was arrogant when my man Chris Moreau first came to me and was like, yo, there's two things you need to do. You need to start a podcast and you need to write a book. I always wanted to write a book. My mom was an English teacher. I love reading, I love writing. That was A no brainer, you know, plus, a lot of the radio personalities that I grew up being inspired by, they already had books. Whether it was Wendy Williams of the world, the Howard Sterns, they already had books out. And so that was a no brainer. But I was like a podcast. I'm like, podcasts are for people who can't do what I'm doing. That's literally what my mindset was. Podcasts are for people who can't get on the radio. Why do I need a podcast? And then he was like, yo, man, I'm just saying, you've been fired four times from radio. And I'm like, you know what, you right, so why not try it? And that was so scary because I didn't know if people wanted to hear me outside of me being on the radio. That was like my first time stepping out there and saying, you know what, let me get in front of a microphone and do something on my own and see if we can garner our audience. And, you know, Andrew, you know, we been, you know, partners since, you know, guy code back in the day, right? And so he was here in New York. I was here in New York all the time. Like, that's my friend. We always have these great conversations. Why not bring him, you know, on the podcast and start this thing called Brilliant Idiots? And I remember the first episode of Brilliant Idiots we ever did is when we used to put it on SoundCloud and it got like 56,000 views. And I mean, 56,000 listens in a weekend. And I'm like, oh, shit, 56,000 people just listen to this. To me, I mean, I've never looked at any type of numbers and been like, oh, that's too small. I was like, 56,000. And then this one. If you know anything about podcasting, whenever you debut a new podcast, the algorithm on Apple, like, tends to favor it. So we were like number one on the Apple podcast charts. And I'm like, oh, we got something here. And so every week we just kept doing it and doing it and doing it. And then I remember that first check, and I remember how happy Andrew was when we got that first check. Andrew was like, oh, my God, it's like we printing our own money. Like, we just coming in here talking and we getting the check. And, you know, now, 13 years later, that's it's been a seven figure revenue business for a decade now.

[Manny Fresh]

What's more important? The video component of a podcast or audio component?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Audio.

[Manny Fresh]

Why?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because that's where the money is now. Video podcasting Is new. Like, this is Vodcasting. It's new in the form of it's starting to make money now because people are licensing the content. It's a big deal. When you got folks like Netflix saying, I want to license the videos for podcasts, they not rocking with the audio. Like, you still over here making your money off the audio, right? You still doing that. But they want to invest in your video. That's a big deal to be able to license your video IP to any streaming platform. Breakfast Club been doing it for years. Like I said, we had Revolt. We was on Revolt Live for years. Then we was on BET for a moment. Now we on Netflix. Just off one form of how people consume our content.

[Andrew Schulz]

The person who starts the podcast in 2025 does it in 2026. You still think that's true? Because I could imagine somebody listening to it and saying, yeah, well, if you got the machine behind you, you're gonna get the state farms and American expresses of the world. If I'm starting out and I might have an audience, it's tough to get corporate. Like, you do this independently. It's tough to go that route. So what do you say to that person who's up and becoming, who might be on Black Effect's radar, but hasn't gotten there yet?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, you're using the video to promote and market your audio. Like, because, you know, there's people that might be on YouTube, but that's why it's important to say, yo, make sure you go, you know, subscribe to earn your leisure on wherever you listen to podcasts. Like, it's always important to take it back to the audio because podcasting is an audio medium. That's not changing. It's like, you know, you might look at Breakfast Club on YouTube. Breakfast Club is a radio show. Like, podcasting is a audio medium. That's why it's so funny when you look at, like, these. Some of these huge shows, right? Some of the biggest shows in the world. People like, I never even heard of that. It's because they may not have video or because they may not go viral, but guess what? Tens of millions of people are listening to this show every single week.

[Manny Fresh]

Yeah, I mean, me personally, I watch more visual than I listen to audio. Like, I never really. I never listen to the Breakfast Club from an audio podcast. I watch the breakfast club on YouTube all the time. But this brings to this, let's have this YouTube conversation. Because we had a conversation a few weeks ago. YouTube is entering the podcast space. They acquired some podcasts from iHeart, Netflix or YouTube? Netflix. My bad. Netflix is entering the podcast space. They acquire some podcasts from Iheartra. So, okay, some people think that this is done from a standpoint of the creators don't really have a say in what their show is. They don't have the control over their ip. But you shed some light on it as far as that. It's a licensing deal. So you guys are now on Netflix. So can you give us some insight on how that actually is working?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. Cause I watched the episode with Ian and Troy. You were bringing up the conversations you've had with iheart. And y' all been in the IHEART system before.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yep.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Five years ago, they wasn't asking for no video.

[Andrew Schulz]

We here now.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, exactly. I'm saying, but five years ago, they weren't asking for video.

[Manny Fresh]

True.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So that means that that's a new thing. So most of the podcasts that they had with them, they didn't have any type of video rights. But if you're an IHEART podcast with the audio, and now Iheart, who didn't have a video component before, right now has a video partnership with somebody like Netflix, that's more incentive to sign with an Iheart. But y' all have the rights to your video already. So now you gotta do a deal with an Iheart and then go do a deal with. With a Netflix. Like, there's no package deal. Hey, we just gonna give you these 15 podcasts, Netflix. Because that no.

[Manny Fresh]

Didn't happen. That didn't happen. No.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And I listen, I can't speak for everybody, but come on, man, think about somebody like Chelsea Handler who's had standup specials, you know, with Netflix, late night talk show with Netflix. Like, you don't think she knows how to negotiate her own situation with an Iheart and a Netflix. Like, it's just, it's just some, some common sense needs to happen here. You know what I'm saying? Like, and I get it, everybody looks at these. Oh, the corporations, they, you know, they got a monopoly over everything. Like, no, I think everybody gets treated very fair. And I think that everybody's capable of doing their. Their own negotiation.

[Manny Fresh]

So licensing. Yeah, not ownership, licensing. Netflix doesn't own all these shows.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't know what the length of a lot of these people's, you know, situations are, but let's just say it's a year licensing deal or a two year licensing deal. If it works out great, Netflix may want to do it again. Or you may not decide. You know what? I would rather go back and do what I was doing on YouTube. It's just straight licensing. That's the beauty of this business that we're in. When it comes to podcasting, it really, truly is for the entrepreneur, because you can be making money off your audio over here, you could be making money off your video over here, you could be making money with your merch over here, you could be making money with your live events over here. What do y' all think? People doing 360 deals and, like, everybody got their hands.

[Andrew Schulz]

You're saying it, aren't they?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No.

[Manny Fresh]

Are they?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We don't know.

[Manny Fresh]

We don't know.

[Andrew Schulz]

We don't know.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Now listen, you. I don't. Once again, I don't know what type of deals people are signing, but those aren't the type of deals that we signing.

[Manny Fresh]

So you.

[Andrew Schulz]

You don't.

[Manny Fresh]

To your knowledge, you don't know of any podcaster that signed a 360 deal?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, I don't even think they have the podcast 360 yet.

[Andrew Schulz]

We've heard some stories.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You've heard of podcast 360?

[Andrew Schulz]

We have. We have.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

From who?

[Andrew Schulz]

We'll talk about it after.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, who's the podcast 360?

[Andrew Schulz]

We have. You signed away your rights before you even have anything. But as you're speaking, I'm thinking to myself, it's interesting because technically, the Breakfast Club belongs to iHeart. You guys don't own that. So the part of the negotiation is between Iheart and Netflix. On that standpoint, do they come back to the host and say, hey, guys, we're thinking about doing this, right? Like, does that incentivize now when you're negotiating, hey, if we're going here, you know, we gotta renegotiate these things or. And does it now make it more advantageous to say, hey, you know, we got this. This other IP that I have that could potentially be on that platform.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Absolutely. And everybody. It's funny, when people say things like, they own Breakfast Club, it's. How can you own host? Like, like, like, like, like we're. That's the difference, right? Like we are. It's not like, I hate. I don't want to say it like this, but it's not like an NBA team where it's a franchise, right? Like, a franchise is valuable regardless of who's playing in New Jersey. Right? It's the franchise. Like, Breakfast Club is valuable because of the host. So you gotta go do your deals with the individual hosts. Like, you just. You just have to. And I mean, you know, for me, I'm this was a great year for me all around because it was my re up year. So.

[Manny Fresh]

So each. Each individual host has their own separate contract. And that's.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I would hope so. I can't, by the way. I can't speak for each individual host. I can only speak for me. I can speak for me.

[Andrew Schulz]

You just know that the guy on the COVID of the Forbes did.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's it. I can. I can only speak for me in that situation. And this was a. You know, this was a great year for me because it's not like. That's the other thing. You hear these stories about, like, the cast of Friends, right? They all go in and negotiate together as one unit. That's just never been the way it's been set up at Breakfast Club. Cause Envy was already there when me and Angela, you know, Yee got there. And everybody's, you know, deal is up at different times. Cause it's different terms. Like, you know, you might have two with an option, you might have a five. You might have a, you know, more than a five. You just never know. So it's just like, my stuff never, you know, landed.

[Andrew Schulz]

Do we discuss that as a unit? Right? Like, I would imagine if me and Shotgun go into a negotiation as partners, number one, I'm like, yo, hey, this is what they're offering. Are we having that conversation? That's one of the things we say that's missing, right? Like, in this space is that we don't know what somebody's getting. And that works for us. So a lot of times it works against us, right? Because then we could get lowballed in that situation. Do you guys sit down as a team and say, like, hey, here's what we're thinking. Here's maybe some. Some. Some tips for you when you go into yours.

[Manny Fresh]

No, get yours. I got mine.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, no, get it. I just don't. I don't mean it like. Like, y'. All. Ey. Eyl is. Eyl is a Jazz.

[Andrew Schulz]

You heard?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, Eyl is a different machine. Everybody, you know, brings a different, you know, thing to the situation. Like, I can't. I can't. I don't even know. I don't even know how that would work for us. Like. Like, it's different. Like, y' all earn your leisure. Everybody knows y' all as a unit, a unit. Like, you know, ours is different. It's a lot more Wu Tang, right? Like, it's like all of these different individuals that, by the way, stand on their own in incredible ways. You see what Envy does as an Entity. You see what Jess Hilarious does as an entity. Lauren LaRosa, she's becoming her own entity. Even prior Angela Yee was her own entity. I don't even know how you would weigh that. Like, I don't even know how that would work. I'm not saying that it couldn't, but.

[Manny Fresh]

It'S like a sports team. Like, LeBron's not gonna get the same as.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's what I was gonna say.

[Manny Fresh]

There's gonna be other Luka, and then Luka's not gonna get the same as Anthony Austin Reeves of Justin Reeve.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I mean, Justin Reeve's about to get paid, though.

[Andrew Schulz]

He ain't paid yet, though.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But he's put. He's. He's showing up, he about to get a bag, and he may not get it with the Lakers, but he gonna.

[Andrew Schulz]

Get it somewhere he's played his way.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's it.

[Manny Fresh]

Did the Dame Dash conversation have any. Did it trigger anything inside of you to be like, I really need to look at this entrepreneurship thing?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No.

[Manny Fresh]

Cause that's another narrative. People were saying. Like, a lot of y' all leveled up, and they saying it was around that time when Dame and had that delivery.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I would say that people weren't already. They weren't paying attention. If people were already paying attention, they would have saw the entrepreneurship from everybody in that room at the time. It was myself, Angela, and DJ Envy. Like, that's what I grew up with. Like, my dad, you know, owned a fish market in the Moncks corner of South Carolina called Mac Seafood. Like, him and my uncle used to own a fish market. I used to be in the fish market as a kid, like, you know, watching them run their fish market on Main street and Monks Corner. Like, my dad had his own construction company, right? Like, so he would always do, you know, you know, independent contracting. Like, my dad had a. Like a. What we call a. A juke joint, right? Like the little sugar shack in the hood where you can go buy your candy and, you know, your alcohol and everything else. You play pool. Like, my dad always was on his.

[Manny Fresh]

Entrepreneurial grind, but that was always on your. On your. You always was an entrepreneur, even though you was. Because that was the narrative of, like, y' all was workers.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't have a problem, by the way. I don't have a problem being a worker either. Like, I think that we, you know, put these labels on things that. And call them negative when they shouldn't be. I think that you should know how to be a soldier in certain situations, and you should know how to Be a general in certain situations. Right? Like, I don't have a problem working with a multibillion dollar company and getting paid handsomely to work there while simultaneously building things on my own. I've been doing Breakfast Club 15 years. I've been doing Brewing Idiots for 13.

[Manny Fresh]

But you also did it in a way. There's other people in radio, even in the city, that worked at this place for a long time, and they never did anything other than work at the place for a long time.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Shame on them.

[Manny Fresh]

You. But you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But that's nothing. Shame on them. They didn't see nothing. They didn't see nothing that I didn't see.

[Manny Fresh]

But that's important. Talk about that though, because you had the vision to say, okay, I'm gonna work here, but I'm gonna collaborate. I'm gonna use the, the infrastructure that's already here in place. So when I'm coming, I'm not just gonna just be a freelance. Just wait. Like that's, that's important for people in any corporate environment to kind of look at intra. Like being an entrepreneur inside of a system that's already successful.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. I don't understand why we get in these machines and then rage against them and rebel against them. You should be in these machines to learn from them. You should be in these machines to utilize the infrastructure and the resources that they have. Like, I don't understand, you know, when you are and I ain't. I'm not trying to throw them under the bus, but when you're a Kanye west and you get into business, that's crazy.

[Andrew Schulz]

As you said that, I was thinking what ye was saying about the fashion world.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't understand that. You finally got the opportunity. Opportunity to do everything that it is that you want to do. Just continue to grow from that. Like, I always look at the Oprah model, right? Like, you hear these stories about Oprah when she first started her talk show. You know, I guess from the stories I read, they didn't necessarily believe in her all the way. So instead of taking a whole bunch of money up front, she took a little bit of equity and then it was successful. And then she continued to be successful. So every time she was up for renegotiations, she would just renegotiate for more equity. More equity, More equity. And then eventually she becomes this entity, Oprah, and she starts Harpo Productions, and then she launches Dr. Phil and Dr. Oz. And I think it was Rachael Ray. And you know, like all. Like, that is what. That's how I look at Things I have no problem being a part of a system, being a part of a machine, helping that machine make money and do what it's supposed to do. But also, I'm learning and using that infrastructure and using their resources and growing and building my own thing, too.

[Andrew Schulz]

This is key because a lot of people see that, and I think they look at us like that. They see us around a lot of successful people. They see us with some corporate entities and they wonder, how do you navigate in these environments? Like, as you've been in this space, Obviously, working with iHeart, we'll talk about Simon and Schuster, because that's important as well. Being in these hugely successful conglomerates, how would you navigate it? Is there, like, a team of people that you make sure that you have to see? Like, you mentioned the sales team. I know that's important. Like, who else do you make sure that you have direct contact with when you get inside these machines?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, well, first of all, I have my own team for every situation. Like, you know, my business partner is my girl Karen. She don't even like to be mentioned. You know what I mean? But she's my business partner. But then we have Black Effect. Dolly's the president of Black Effect. When I'm at, you know, Simon and Schuster, Black Privilege Publishing, yes. They got their own people, right? Like people like Shy did at work over there. And Libby and Melissa like those. And Nick was, like, our first editor, so they're already in the building. Like, that situation is a little bit different because all I'm doing is writing my own books and telling them, hey, man, read this manuscript. This is somebody that y' all should, you know, do a book on. Like, I really believe in this project. And, you know, sometimes they agree with me, sometimes they don't. So that situation is a little bit different. But. But even in that, it's just like, me and my team are connected with them and their team. And book industry is different. Cause, like, one thing I've learned about the book industry, you not changing that system. Like, the book industry is what it is. So you really do need to have your own team when you're launching a book. If you sign a book deal, don't think that this is, like, a record label where they about to give you a marketing budget. Y' all know, y'. All, you know, you got, like, a marketing budget and a promotion budget. Like, you gonna really have to go out there and do the work on your own. Like, they do have a publicist that, you know, might help you book some things. But even with that. That's hard to do if you're not already somebody. Like, if you bring in like a author that just has a really good story, but they don't really have like the name brand recognition, man. Try to get them booked on a TV show, try to get them booked on radio or podcast. People like, I don't even know who that is. So that's the most difficult part of the book industry. But then like the company me and Kevin Hart got with Audible, we do audio scripted. My girl Nicole Shelton, she runs that. So she's the person that's day to day with all of the different creatives that we may be doing, you know, audio scripted with. So you gotta always have your own team that connects with the team, you know, inside of these systems.

[Manny Fresh]

I wanna talk about the book industry, but my last question about this podcast, Netflix. Do you think that people are gonna watch podcasts on Netflix? Cause like, me personally, right, I watch the Breakfast Club a lot on YouTube. I probably won't be watching as much Breakfast Club on. No, no, we're friends. No, I'm just saying. I'm just saying honestly, because not because of the content, it's because the barrier of entry. Like, I'm a Netflix guy. I only watch Netflix at 9 o', clock, 10 o' clock at night in my living room in front of a television. I don't watch Netflix on my phone unless I'm on like a plane. But I watch YouTube on my phone when I'm driving. I watch YouTube all the time. Like, you know what I mean? So there's a barrier of entry that kind of makes it harder for somebody to actually watch it. So how do you think that's gonna play out as far as podcasts?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't know. And, you know, the reality of the situation is I think back to everything, right? Think back to when cable, I mean, when TV only had three channels, three, four channels. And then cable came around and now everybody had a cable box in their house, right? And then, you know, I think about the Internet. When we used to go on to dial up and be on everybody.com, i'm sure there was a point where people was like, I ain't never going on the Internet. You know what I'm saying? And then when you tried to go on the Internet, the shit would take mad long and the noise would be beeping, blah. You'd be like, I don't have the patience for this. But eventually everybody went to the Internet. I can go back to radio. You know, 18, 19 years ago, there Was people saying, what is that? Twitter? I'm never getting on that Twitter. I'm not gonna spend my time on Twitter. Right then when we started recording our interviews for radio and putting them online, there was so many personalities like, I'm not doing. I'm not ever going to do that. Those people ended up getting left behind. I can think about being with Viacom. When YouTube first came out, Viacom didn't want to put none of their content on YouTube. Ah, nobody's going to watch that. We need to keep them coming back, you know, to the tv. I remember when we was putting all Breakfast club interviews on power1005.1fm.com and we were just putting the clips on YouTube. I'm like, yo, we need to be on YouTube. We need to be on YouTube. No, we need to keep people coming back to the dot com. No, the world has changed. We need to be on YouTube. The week that we had Hillary Clinton hot saucing her bag on a Monday, and Birdman put some respect on my name on a Friday, the numbers were so I remember somebody had took that Birdman clip and put it online, and they had like, 72 million views. Because this is when we was on Revolt at the time. So you could, like, screen record and stuff like that. They had, like, 72 million views in 24 hours. They were like, all right, we're gonna be going on, you know, YouTube from now on. So my point is there's always gonna be change, right? And there's always gonna be people who be like, ah, I don't think I'm.

[Manny Fresh]

Oh, so y' all wasn't on YouTube at that time?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, just with clips.

[Manny Fresh]

Oh, so the Birdman one was the reason why y' all started going on.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

YouTube, Birdman and Hillary.

[Manny Fresh]

So that Birdman one that. Oh, yeah, I didn't put y' all put that on YouTube after, because it's on your YouTube.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's on YouTube now. But the first person to put it on YouTube was just somebody.

[Manny Fresh]

A clipper.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, Was watching it live on Revolt. And so that's what I'm saying. I think that, you know, Netflix is literally just another platform for people to watch content. Like, we watch content on so many different things now. And it. And listen, it would scare me if it was probably any other streaming service other than Netflix. I'm willing to take a chance with Netflix. Like, Netflix is in everybody's home. Netflix is on remote controls. Netflix is in hotels. Netflix is all around the world. If it was any other screaming platform, I'd be like, ah, I don't know.

[Andrew Schulz]

Any other streaming platform is not the number one platform.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's what I'm saying. Netflix, I'm willing to take the chance. And also, it's not like we're not on social media or YouTube anymore.

[Manny Fresh]

Oh, are you still on YouTube?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, but it's just different. Like, we're putting clips of things on YouTube.

[Manny Fresh]

Clips.

[Andrew Schulz]

So the entire episodes, is it daily that it's gonna be on? It's on Netflix every day.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Every day? Every day. Yeah. I think that's.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's why I think the Breakfast Club has a chance. Like I was. And even I watched you on Instagram remind us that, yo, it's on this date. It's on this date. We know that the Breakfast Club is coming on every day. Right. Some of these shows, I have no idea when they come out. So it's like, if I won't say their name, but, like, a show comes out, it's like, y' all see the clip on Instagram? I don't know when the episode came out. I just know I saw the clip. Like, there's gonna.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You should. Joe and Jada, Rory. Like, who. It's like there's a bunch of them.

[Manny Fresh]

So, I mean, yeah. The Joe and Jada show.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Chris Paul and Max Keller.

[Manny Fresh]

Let's say Joe and Jada versus the Breeze. The Breakfast Club is a daily show that comes out that's part of people's routines. If you drive and you know, you're listening to the show. Joe and Jada is a weekly podcast that's extremely successful, but it comes out once a week. Those are different. They're different models here.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes.

[Manny Fresh]

The weekly podcast that comes out once a week versus the daily show that comes out every single day. So you're saying that the daily show that comes out every single day has a greater advantage over the weekly show that comes out once a week.

[Andrew Schulz]

Right. Cause do we know.

[Manny Fresh]

But they also put their past episodes. I saw that too. But Joe and Jada put all of their episodes is now on.

[Andrew Schulz]

You can. You can catch up on them.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That was a choice, though, because, like, I think that's another thing too. People think that, like, they're taking catalog. No, they not all. All Netflix wanted new episodes. So if you choose to put, you know, your back catalog on there, that's. Yeah, you chose to do that. But they didn't take it off YouTube. On Netflix, those on both.

[Manny Fresh]

It's on both.

[Andrew Schulz]

Those are deal points that people should know, right? Like, hey, what is the contractual agreement? Is it one episode every week? Do we have to do two? Do we have to put two hours of media up? Right. Cause it could just be one episode. Like those are the deal points that most people don't read the five lines of.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, I mean, from what I was told they wanted and from what I saw for us, I can't speak. Like I said, I can't speak for nobody else. They wanted to reflect your podcast distribution.

[Andrew Schulz]

Okay?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So if you put out a daily podcast and you put it out as an audio and video, they want you to put it out on Netflix as a daily podcast. So if you do, you know, once a week, every Thursday, they want that podcast once a week. You know, Thursday.

[Andrew Schulz]

And shot too. Because there's certain cameras that Netflix won't allow to be on their platform. So it has to be shot in a certain way.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I mean.

[Manny Fresh]

Well, I don't know about that now because I said I saw some night, I saw some Lifetime movies on Netflix. So I feel like they, they opened up floodgates as far as quite. No, I'm being honest.

[Andrew Schulz]

I know what you're talking about, the conversation.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, but.

[Manny Fresh]

But it's cheaper. That's another aspect. From a business standpoint, it's. Netflix has very thin revenue. They have very, very thin margins on their revenue because they spend so much money on content. They spend more money on content than anybody else. Now that's not sustainable.

[Andrew Schulz]

Well, that's why the ad business is so important to them.

[Manny Fresh]

Right, but that's also why low costing content is important as well.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.

[Manny Fresh]

It's a low cost content compared to.

[Andrew Schulz]

A series and doesn't cost as much. Right. Like we had to wait four years for Stranger things to come back. All I gotta wait is a day to watch Sprinkler Club again, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When the last writers crack happened, I hit my team up and I said, yo, I remember when the writer's crack previously, before the last one happened, it was the rise in reality television. And so I said, this writer's crike should be the rise of podcasters. And they were like, what do you mean? I said, because we're already doing exactly like this right here, like sitting here on the set of Earn your leisure. We're recording it, it's gonna go out. They're already doing that type of content. Why not just do licensing deals with them while the writer strike is going on and put that content on? Like, I don't see why. I honestly don't see why it wouldn't, you know, garner eyeballs.

[Andrew Schulz]

You think about what the number one show is during the pandemic was Suits, right? Suits was shot five years ago. They just showed the back catalog of what they had. It was like, oh, this was already produced.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You're right.

[Andrew Schulz]

So like, like, it's there, right? So like all these. I don't even want to call it like, the video podcast, right? Like, they have to treat what they're creating as a catalog because it is going to be like, in three, four years. Like, somebody may say, hey, we want all of the information. And that's why, like, we've made it a considered effort. It was like, a lot of the content needs to be evergreen. Like, some of these topics need to live forever. Like, whatever's happening that's trending in this moment three years from now, like, you're not going to care. But, like, if it's an evergreen topic, it's informational that lives forever, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Content is king. I don't even think people realize the gold somebody like Breakfast Club is sitting on or Vlad TV or the guy you was just talking about, he just sold, you know, not a lot of money just for content, right? Like, you know, like, I be seeing all of these. Like, I saw mtv. They deleted. I guess it was their MTV News. Or like Hip Hop DX just deleted all of their past interviews. And, you know, I found this out. I hit my man Trent. Cause I was thinking about a Nipsey interview. Cause I guess when J. Cole dropped, I didn't see it, but I guess the mixtape was, you could pay what you want.

[Manny Fresh]

Yeah, yeah, it's like the LA Russell.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, the LA Russell model. But the Russell got that model from Nipsey. Remember it was the Proud to Pay. Yep, same thing. And so I hit my man Trent. Trent Clark. I'm like, yo, Trent, I said, yo, what's that interview with Nipsey, man? Cause Nipsey was in the interview saying how I told him I love him, but I wouldn't pay a hundred dollars for his album, a thousand dollars for his album or whatever, Whatever. I said, I'm trying to find that clip. And he sent me the story of how Hip Hop DX, or whoever it is. I guess it's Hip Hop DX Uproxx. Or somebody deleted 20 years of content. I'm like, yo, I have no idea. But my point is like, do you understand what you're deleting? You're literally deleting probably tens of millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars of just straight up content. Especially something like a mtv. I remember when MTV News did that I'm like, yo, they bugging. There was a time where they were the only source.

[Manny Fresh]

So you think that there's a time where we're really gonna see not just people checking old interviews, but syndication. Netflix really putting out, like, how Seinfeld made millions of dollars in syndication. Like, you think like, podcasts can fall into syndication?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, if you got the right catalog. I mean. I mean, everything is so scattered. Right. Like, everything is all over the place as far as people's content. So it would be really hard to get. It'd be really hard to try to get Breakfast Club all the past 15 years and say, we want all this back catalog, and you can only find it here. But I feel like, yeah, that's going to be a thing. Because Netflix isn't just acquiring podcasts that exist. They're launching original podcasts as well.

[Manny Fresh]

Yeah. And they got the Michael Irvin, Michael.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Irvin Pete Davidson show. Like, they're launching original podcast. So that's going to be their own catalog. And their model is actually smart. Let's go get these established people that folks are gonna come here for, and then also let's present them with some new shit as well.

[Manny Fresh]

Well, that's the thing. Yeah, the established thing. You meant established as far as the show. But even estab. The podcast industry is kind of. We talked about this before. It's hard to break through as a podcaster if you're not a celebrity right now.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's tough to say, man. I feel like celebrity podcasting ruined the game. That was one thing Ian said here that I agreed with, because people's names did cause a lot of these podcasters to dump a lot of money fast. Right? And that's actually the wildest thing about podcasting. Five years ago, everybody was just guessing. You know what I'm saying? You were just guessing. Like, you was like, all right, let's give this person this and give this person that. Let's try to negotiate this for that. Cause you didn't really know what certain podcasts should be making. Now you got five years later, you got all this data. You know how much if a podcast is doing, let's just say 100,000 downloads a month, you know what that person should be paid. You know what kind of ad revenue you gonna get back for that? If a person's doing, you know, 3, 4 million annually, you know what a person should be getting paid because you know what kind of ad revenue you should get? You should get back for that. When you're doing these deals with these celebrities, you really just dumping a lot of money into a name that don't mean it's gonna translate into actual audio download. I'm praying it works. And I still have yet to see the super celebrity who launches a podcast and they're having as much success as earn your leisure or a decision's decisions or like right now. Look him up. Look at Deontay Kyle. Like he was driving trucks. Well, when you said he's cutting through way more than a lot of these celebrities, that's a fact.

[Manny Fresh]

But I mean, Joe and Jada, they obviously are successful. They're celebrities. Cameron and Mace, that's successful.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What do you call success? And I'm not. Cam and Mace is. I can tell you right now, Cam and Mace is successful. Audio and video.

[Manny Fresh]

Oh, you saying the audio numbers is looking a little shaky?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Cam and Mace. Audio is crazy. I mean. No, their audio numbers are crazy. I'm saying audio and video. Cam and Mace are super successful. But then you might have, like, Joe and Jada might have moderate success. Not saying that they're not growing, but they've only been around six months.

[Manny Fresh]

Oh, so the audio numbers for them.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Or not, they only been around six months?

[Manny Fresh]

No, I'm just.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They only been around six months. You're saying that they're super successful. Cause you see them everywhere.

[Manny Fresh]

Okay, that's fair enough.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Virality doesn't always equate to. That's all I'm saying.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's the conversation.

[Manny Fresh]

Let's rap about it, right?

[Andrew Schulz]

Like, we see it. And I've looked at the charts. They're in the top 10.

[Manny Fresh]

So let's rap about it.

[Andrew Schulz]

The audio starts.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Top 10 or what?

[Andrew Schulz]

In the music chart.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, okay. On Apple. But yo, go look at, like, Bloomberg just published the top 50 podcast. Podcast. Go look at those.

[Manny Fresh]

I did.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, those are the numbers. Like, and that's not black. That's black, white, everybody across the board.

[Manny Fresh]

True crime.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's what we. That's.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You just said we do that.

[Manny Fresh]

Black Effect.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, we do that at Black Effect and the company. Me and Kevin Hart got sbh. Like Finding Tameka, you know, Salute to Erica Alexander and Color Farm. That was the first one we launched under sbh, man. You know, it told the story about a young woman named Tamika Houston who went missing in South Carolina in the early 2000s. And I mean, it's such a dope story because it blends the supernatural with just the plight of black women who go missing in this country and how they don't get the media attention that white women get. And it Was just a great story that was told. Not only did it do super successful, man, we won every audio award fire for that true film.

[Manny Fresh]

And it's on audible.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. And see, that's the true crime sports business. Those are like the top genres for podcasting. I think sometimes we get caught up in our own hip hop bubbles. And we think because our algorithm tells us that all of these shows. We see these shows all the time. Those aren't the ones doing them numbers. Look at the list on that top 50. How many black shows was on that top 50 list?

[Andrew Schulz]

Joe was on there.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Joe Budden. Yep. Breakfast Club, probably breakfast club, number 15. We were the highest one.

[Andrew Schulz]

And one of Shannon's joints was on there.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Club Shay Shay was on there. Million dollars worth of game was on there. That was it. Drink champs is usually on there.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, there's something going on.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, I mean, yeah, but they Drink champs, but they're usually on there. They're usually on there. And I about to call it a black podcast. I don't know. No jumper was on there. You know what I'm saying? But they're black adjacent. Yeah. With a lot of black content.

[Andrew Schulz]

We won boxing match, right?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I did see that actually. You know what, though? I think that. I thought that was dope. I think that all of those white guys who make content off black culture, I mean, make money off black culture and create content off black culture, they need to fight a black man twice a year in the ring.

[Manny Fresh]

Well, now, academically said he wants you to fit one with Lil Baby.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't want.

[Andrew Schulz]

You saw the question he asked him.

[Manny Fresh]

In the ring a little bit about his wife. That was crazy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That would be cool. That's kind of like a tax. That's like a cultural attack. You gotta fight a black man in the ring.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's the new show.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Twice a year.

[Andrew Schulz]

Cultural tax.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think that'd be dope. I think that'd be dope. But not mad at that knockout. My point is, with those top 50 podcasts that you saw in America, a lot of the ones that we see with the virality weren't on there because people like to actually listen. And when you become a habit, and I'm not saying that these guys can't become a habit. Right. Like I said, Joe and Jada only been around six months. You know what I mean? It is what it is. Been around a lot longer, but they are booming. Like, I like I fully expect to see Cammy Mace on those lists in a minute. But that, to me, those are the things that Matters. Like, I hear people have these conversations and you know, oh, we're the biggest. Blah, blah, blah you can open. The numbers are right there. If you want to look at them.

[Manny Fresh]

And see from that standpoint, that's it. Books. Let's talk about the books. Because you're right, this book industry is something that's crazy because I got a free a call the other day from somebody hip hop icon, and it was asking about a book. And I'm just kind of explaining to him, like, it's not like music like it. The independent. Right. Because they're like, could we do the independent but then have the major as like the distribution? I'm like, that's not. I don't think that's really how it works.

[Andrew Schulz]

They hear that word publishing.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They wanted to self publish.

[Manny Fresh]

Yeah, they wanted to self publish, but they wanted to have the backing of a major. I'm like, I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too in that regard. But then we had to realize that, that you can't be on a New York Times list if you're self published. You can't. There's a variety of different things that. It's a real.

[Andrew Schulz]

You wanna tell them why, though?

[Manny Fresh]

Stranglehold.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's the education in itself. It was like when you realize. I'm like, well, how do they make up the New York Times best sellers list?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Nobody knows.

[Andrew Schulz]

Well, they told us some of the formula.

[Manny Fresh]

Yeah, some of the formula.

[Andrew Schulz]

So it's like you have to have a diversification of outlets that are having your book on sales. Right. So like it could be Walmart, it could be Amazon, it could be Barnes and Nobles, the mom and Pop, mom and Pop shops. Like when you combine all those things together, then it'll account for the New York Times bestseller the Tough Thing and the first week.

[Manny Fresh]

The first week.

[Andrew Schulz]

First week.

[Manny Fresh]

Right. That's why the pre orders are important.

[Andrew Schulz]

Exactly.

[Manny Fresh]

Because it counts for the first week.

[Andrew Schulz]

I'm doing it independently. How do I get into, you know, one of the major four? How do I, how do I, how do I get there? It's almost impossible to get there. So it's tough to even make it to the list.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I've seen that though. I've seen people have the diversification sell 15,000, 20,000 the first week. Then you go look at the Times charts and they've sold more than 10 of the books that's on there and still didn't make it.

[Manny Fresh]

Still didn't make it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

New York Times is just a political list. Like if, like I want a list that is just weighted sales. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Where are the lists? And I don't even think us. I think USA Today might just be straight sales. I'm not sure. I think it is. But that's what you want. You just want a list that just gives you straight sales. New York Times got way too many politics with their list. I don't know how you make the.

[Manny Fresh]

Well, you know, it's also like that the Apple podcast charts. There's. Nobody really knows the formula for Apple podcast charts either.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Nah, you don't, because they, like I said earlier, they favor new. New podcasts. Right.

[Manny Fresh]

Likes the comments. It's a bunch of different.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, that's why attention all these things.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's why I like raw data. Yeah. Show me the numbers. Don't tell me what you feel somebody is doing. Don't show me that. You know, you number one on a. On. On. On a list out of 10 podcasts, because it'd be like, well, you might just be number one on that network. Just show me the raw numbers. I want to see the raw data. When you see the raw data, you can actually see what's. What's going on.

[Andrew Schulz]

But you've made the list with both books.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Three.

[Andrew Schulz]

Three books.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And no, actually, did I. Black Privilege, Definitely. The other two were national bestsellers, so.

[Andrew Schulz]

Okay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm not sure.

[Andrew Schulz]

You know, I thought. Yeah, I thought it was two, but maybe it's three.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't remember.

[Andrew Schulz]

But I want to talk about the publishing part where you're actually giving voices, or the people who have voices. Opportunity. Great books. Shout out to our sister, Tamika Mallory. Her book is actually on my bookshelf. Two Chains is on the way.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Two Chains is on the way.

[Andrew Schulz]

But I want to talk about Arsenio hall, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Arsenio Hall.

[Andrew Schulz]

I heard you talk about it and how proud to be a part of it that you were. And for our generation, that means something, right? Like, this is the guy that we watch, or we would if we were lucky, we could stay up to watch, but, like, talk about that process him reaching out and what that's been like.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, I reached out to him, man, because, you know, I got four people in this entertainment business who have just always inspired me. And you know, Clarence Avon, of course, the Black Godfather, Petey Green, you know, who was a radio personality from dc. I never got the chance to meet him. You know, he's passed away recipe to Clarence Avon as well. But Peter Green, they got a dope movie about him. Called Talk to Me that stars Don Cheadle and Taraji P. Henson. Y' all should check that out. And then Jay Z, of course, and Arsenio Hall. Because I don't think people really, truly understand what Arsenio hall was to black culture. Like, I saw an episode of Bag Fuel where they were debating whether or not Arsenio hall was hip hop. Arsenio hall was black popular culture, period. Hip hop probably doesn't even grow the way it does. If you don't have somebody like Arsenio hall with a mainstream platform like he had putting the artist on that he was putting on. Where else would you have seen Wu Tang back then? You know what I mean? Everybody was not Snoop Dogg. Like, I think people forget how new hip hop is and how those guys were just breaking into the mainstream in, like, the late 80s, early 90s. And Arsenio hall was giving all those people's platforms. Not even just hip hop, man. The cast of Living Single, you know, the honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan, like, he was platforming black people at a time where black people didn't have a place to be platformed. So that was just always super inspirational to me, man. And, you know, I was gonna say.

[Andrew Schulz]

President sue, the Bill Clinton saxophone moment.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Bill Clinton, the saxophone.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's him.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The Democrats started pandering to black people on Arsenio hall show. You know what I mean? And so for me, it was like, man, I remember I always wanted to do late night television because Arsenio Hall. Cause I'm older, so I come from a generation where certain things you feel like you gotta do in this business. So if I get the opportunity to do late night, I want to do late night. Cause Arsenio did it. And, man, I remember Arsenio was doing an interview for Coming To America Part 2, and they asked him, who is the Arsenio hall of this generation? He said, man, I probably have to say somebody like Charlamagne. Because, you know, Charlamagne, you know, he's got a radio show, but it comes out on YouTube and, you know, people watch it and he has a, you know, a variety of guests. And like, you know, it's like the epicenter of black culture. And that's why I get my news and stuff. I'm like, oh. And that was so freeing to me. Cause I'm like, yo, the guy that I'm aspiring to be, like, in this late night space is saying that what I'm already doing is enough. Like, you know, it's a different era that we're in you don't necessarily have to be on late night tv. So that is what made me even just like, I gotta reach out to Arsenio. Cause the more I ain't. I mean, I think I had did his show once before when his talk show had came back, but we didn't have like a relationship relationship. And so when I got the book imprint, man, that's what I want to do. I want to tell those kind of stories, those people that inspired a generation. So it's just like, yo, Arsenio, you want to do a book? And he wanted to write a book. That's why it's important to have people like us in those spaces. Because Arsenio's about to be 70 years old.

[Andrew Schulz]

Crazy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He could have did his memoir 20 years ago. Nobody reached out to Arsenio to do a memoir in all of these years. Like, I gotta be the first person. And I don't even know if I was the first person. I'm just saying I feel like it would have got done already, you know, if somebody had, somebody else had.

[Manny Fresh]

That's why you're here. You're in position of power and you're using it the right way. But let's give us some information.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It'll be out in April till you can go pre order that right now.

[Manny Fresh]

Right now. The book game. Cause the first person that educated us on the book game was Ash Cash. You know him?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, Ash Cash.

[Manny Fresh]

He educated us on the independent side and he gave us a lot of game. And then when we got, you know, our book deal and we started working, then we got educated on how it works from a system standpoint, working with, you know, major publishers. And there's so much stuff that people don't know even like, all right, most the self help books are gonna probably sell more than a memoir most of the time. Right? And it's like, it'd be harder for.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You to get on that list too. Cause self help is like, yeah, yeah.

[Manny Fresh]

Even the week that we made the New York Times bestsellers list, the number one book for that week was. Remember when the dude read the book on the sidelines?

[Andrew Schulz]

AJ Brown brought the book out at the playoff games.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, think and grow rich.

[Manny Fresh]

No, no, no. It was a book that had been dormant for like a year.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Comic habits.

[Manny Fresh]

No, it wasn't. It was a book that nobody. I don't want to just.

[Andrew Schulz]

He was working on his mental health. So during the, like, he. There was a time during the season where he, you know, the ball wasn't coming his way. He Takes out the book during the playoff game and starts reading on the sideline. So that becomes the moment, right? They won the playoff game. Obviously they won a Super bowl. But like, that happened the same week we dropped it. And that moment watched. I think they had like 100,000.

[Manny Fresh]

Nah, it went crazy. It went crazy. So random stuff like that. But we had to learn so much as far as like, okay, you get the upfront money, right? Then you got the percentages on the back end. Then there's the audio side of a book, which is different from the hard copy. Then hard copies are different from paper. Hard paperback just came back out a year after the hard copy came out.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Large print, they gotta ju. They gotta squeeze and juice that hard copy. Hard copy costs so much to print. We gotta make sure we get all of this out before you introduce the paper.

[Manny Fresh]

Then the translations. Like now the Spanish version came out like 10 months after the English. So there's so much stuff with the book, the book. Like, what's some key points you think people need to really know if they're trying to become an author?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Take less money up front. That's, that, that's what I would do if, like. And that's, that's actually, you know, what I did. Like, you know, my first book deal was, was, was a moderate size advance. You know, it was a, it was decent, right? But I, Black Privilege did so well that I, I started getting royalty checks immediately because I re recouped what already my advance was. And then like, I'm talking about immediately I started getting black. I started getting royalty checks for Black Privilege the year it came out in 2017, which was like, damn, that was kind of crazy, right? And so the next book comes out, the book advance is way bigger, right? So even though you might sell a lot of copies, you still trying to chop down this big ass advance, right? So when it came time for my third book, I was like, I don't want that big ass advance. I said, actually what I want is just give me what I got for the last book. And I want a book imprint because I want to be able to help other people, you know, put their books out. And, you know, plus I was peeping how all the book publishing companies, they like to bring their authors to Breakfast Club. Why they like bringing their authors to Breakfast Club because they know Breakfast Club can move books. So why not give a host on the Breakfast Club who's already an author, a New York Times bestseller. Why not give.

[Manny Fresh]

And that's your blueprint. You're right there with the podcast.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's it, you know, Like, I'm never going to be in a business that I already haven't had a lot of experience in as a talent. Because when you're a talent, you're seeing things from a different perspective. You're seeing things that you could do to continue to grow as a talent, but you're also seeing things that the executives could do for the talent. And so that puts you in a very unique space. I guess it's like a. I guess like when you signed to, like, a Rockefeller back in the day or a good music with Kanye. I mean, it can be either or, right? It can help or it can hurt. Like, you might have the artist executive who understands how it is to be an artist and knows what executives do wrong so they can fill in all of the gaps. Or you might have an artist who just wants to be an executive because they see everybody else doing it, but they don't really know what it takes to be an executive and help artists. So for me, I just wanted my own imprint. And for the past five years, that's what we've been doing. We published 11 books over the last five years.

[Manny Fresh]

Is it similar to Black Effect? Like, you have, like, 50. 50 partner.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm gonna be honest with y', all, and I've never said this. I don't make any money off publishing people's books because all the money goes to the author, as it should. Like, I'm not gimme 5%, 10% of your.

[Commercial Ad Voice / Narrator]

Why?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, I'd rather you have the opportunity. I make all my money on the back end.

[Manny Fresh]

If you sell some books on the royalties.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

On the royalties. You know what I mean? And I'm cool with that. Like, that don't bother me in any way, shape, or form. Like, let me help these different individuals get their books published.

[Manny Fresh]

I mean, Cheryl McKissick.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Cheryl McKissick, the black family who built America. Being able to tell that story. Mandy and Weezy with decisions, decisions. I was on vacation and my favorite island, Anguilla, when that news came through that they was on the New York Times bestsellers list. I got drunk. That felt great. Like, my girls on the New York Times bestsellers best sellers list. Like, that matters. Like Don Staley, legendary coach at the University of South Carolina, North Carolina, legendary WNBA player, was literally a person who was playing in the WNBA and coaching at Temple at the same time. Like, people don't even understand how iconic somebody like Dawn Staley is. And being from South Carolina and watching what she's done for My wife's alma mater. It's like, yo, I want to help you tell that story.

[Andrew Schulz]

The rollout was crazy, too.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You had.

[Andrew Schulz]

Had Asia Wilson, her. At South Carolina.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schulz]

Incredible.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That was incredible. And she. And she's off and on the New York Times bestsellers list all the time. But that goes. That goes back to what I was talking about, right? Like, she's already an iconic figure.

[Manny Fresh]

So you. So you probably. You're the most influential person in our culture.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, I don't know. I don't think about that. You think about shit like that.

[Manny Fresh]

Well, because I'm. Well, because I'm thinking, okay, if you got black, how many people's on Black Effect? How many shows?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think we had like, 60. 60 something.

[Andrew Schulz]

60?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, I think.

[Manny Fresh]

All right, so you got. So you got 60. And there's more. Because a lot of shows have two or three people. So let's say 100 creators on Black Effect. How many people's on your book publisher?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You got a whole staff at Black Effect, too. Like, people. It's not like Black Effect has its own staff. Like, it's not. It's not. I Hearts team.

[Andrew Schulz]

We got our own Shout out to Jawara.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Jawara, Chanel. Nicole.

[Andrew Schulz]

Nicole.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

A king. You know what I'm saying? Like, shout out to the team. Yeah, Taylor. Like, a bunch of them.

[Andrew Schulz]

Taylor. Congratulations.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Congratulations to Taylor.

[Manny Fresh]

And then on the book side, how many authors.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We've published 11 books over the last five years. And over the next three, it'll be another 11. Cause we got four this year. This year we got two chains coming out. Arsenio hall and Jess. Hilarious.

[Manny Fresh]

And you're in the film industry business.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, me and my dude Basil, I wanted. We launched a film company called Southland Films. See, Basil is so ill, and I like to be with people who've already had success. If you know anything about Basil, I wanted the John Wick franchise. That's his franchise. You know, I think a Star is Born. That was his. You know, I think the town as well. But I like their model, right? Like, Basil, he don't wait on nobody. Like, Basil goes out there, raises the money himself and goes to shoot. And everybody knows the story of, you know, Eva Longoria with the first John Wick. Right? Like, the first John Wick came out and, like, right before they was about to shoot, you know, the day before they was about to shoot, they ended up being short some money. They needed somebody to come in real quick with a bag, and Eva came through with a bag. And Eva will tell you right now that Was her biggest ROI on anything.

[Manny Fresh]

Oh, she owns part of the franchise since.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Not the franchise, but that first film.

[Manny Fresh]

First on the first film.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And I man, more sense. She flexed on us. So crazy. We was in France last summer. Mandy and Weezy was there. They tell you we was in France. And that's the first time I met Eva. Cause she has a network on Iheart. It's like the brown effect. It's like for Latinos. You know what I mean? Brown effect, but.

[Andrew Schulz]

Crossover.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I was just talking to her and I'm like, yeah, you know, me and Basil, we launched the film company. I was like, yo. He always tells me the story about how you came through and saved the day with the first John Wicks. She was like, yeah, I just got a. The number was seven figures. She was just like, I just got that check last week on the residual. And I was like, huh? And she was like, yeah, you know, residuals, it's 14, 15 years later, you still getting seven figure checks off a movie like that is the type of business that we need to be doing. So even when you talk about the book business, right. I don't care that I don't make any money off any of these books now because these books aren't going anywhere. These books will be here forever.

[Manny Fresh]

So it's a long game.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I might not even be here in the future and somebody in my family will be getting royalties, you know, not just from, you know, my books, but, you know, books that I've helped to publish. Like, that is. That's, that's what I. That's what I like to do. That's what I'm here for.

[Manny Fresh]

So you're the biggest in the game.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, I don't know. What are you talking about?

[Manny Fresh]

Well, what I'm saying is.

[Andrew Schulz]

I want you to say it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't feel like you've empowered.

[Manny Fresh]

You've empowered me. But let's say over 120 people as far as on Just Creatives. Just Creatives.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, yeah. Oh, just Creatives. Easily, Easily.

[Manny Fresh]

Just Creatives.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, yeah. Between Black Effect and SBH with Kevin and Black Privilege Publishing. Yeah, easily.

[Manny Fresh]

That's a lot, right?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Manny Fresh]

Cause I mean, we had dinner with Nas, shout out to him. They had a hell of a year at Mass Appeal as far as what they're doing on the music side. I feel like the only thing that you haven't done is music. Right, right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I tried back in the day, like a record label. Yeah. I had a. I put out a compilation album called South Crack the album back in the day South Cracker. South Crack. South Crack. Because it was a play on South. South Carolina is South cac. And it was a compilation album full of a bunch of South Carolina artists. We put it out through emi. I did a P and D deal, you know, back in the day. That's when I was with Wendy. And I mean, it was cool because there was a. There was a group that ended up getting signed because of that album. It was a group called State House Record from Orangeburg, South Carolina. They ended up signing the Grand Hustle. They had a song called Crank that Roy. And Crank that Roy was on that. On that project. And once again, I ain't making no money off that. But I was just using my position to create an opportunity for this whole beautiful state that I love, that has all of these artists. I wasn't even able to pay nobody nothing from that album. Only thing I could do was give an opportunity. That's why I salute all the artists who just gave me records, you know, to put on that album. Right. Because I was just trying to get some exposure for us. And, I mean, we did end up getting at least one person signed from that project. But it's like, yo, man, we talk about taking risk and we talk about, you know, gambling. I always say, man, if what you build only benefits you, it's not big enough. So if I build something that's trying to benefit a lot of people and it don't work, I'm happy with just the fact that we even tried to do something for a large amount of.

[Manny Fresh]

People that's real before we leave. And you're in the culinary industry as well?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. Me and my wife have some fast food franchises. We invested in Crystals. Crystal. Crystal in South Carolina. Crystal's like the down South. White Castle.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, I think Chains is involved.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's how I got involved. And see, this is why us talking to each other is important. Little Duvall was having Duvall Day. Big community event he does in his hometown of Jacksonville. And I just saw him with a bunch of crystal sliders. And I hadn't seen crystal in a while. I just hit him up like, yo, where you get crystal from? And he was like, you know, 2 Chainz. 2 Chainz. Fuck with them. 2 Chainz got some type of situation with them. 2 Chainz is like. I can't remember his exact title. It's like, head of Cultural something. I don't remember what his exact title is, but I just hit Chainz up, and Chainz was like, yeah, this is what I'm doing with Them. He was like, I'm plug you with, you know, Jonathan, who runs the holding company, and me and Jonathan and my man Billy. Salute to Billy. We got on the phone, and the rest is history, you know? So we got. We opened two already. One in Orangeburg, South Carolina, one in Walterboro, and we got four more coming to South Carolina.

[Manny Fresh]

That's fire. What about politics? Politics, man.

[Andrew Schulz]

When you said the biggest, I thought that was the piece. It was like, who do people call when they need to have that interview?

[Manny Fresh]

I'm like, well, he's the old boy inference of our generation.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But Kanye said that 10 years ago.

[Manny Fresh]

Did he?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, Kanye west said that 10 years ago.

[Andrew Schulz]

What did they call?

[Manny Fresh]

But, you know, they call a lot of people.

[Andrew Schulz]

Short list.

[Manny Fresh]

Yeah, it's a short list for a serious. For serious conversation. But you've. You've. Stephen A. Smith is.

[Andrew Schulz]

He's trying.

[Manny Fresh]

Taking a different pathway, but he's coming into that lane, too. He's coming into that lane hard. Paul.

[Andrew Schulz]

Hey, yo.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think Stephen. I think Stephen A.

[Andrew Schulz]

Pause that.

[Manny Fresh]

I said pause. I said pause.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think the difference between me and Stephen A. Is, like, I genuinely enjoy having the conversation with people because I'm not an expert at any of this. You know what I'm saying? I'm not trying to be an expert at any of this. I'm just a concerned taxpayer citizen who looks around at the world, has questions, and has the opportunity to ask the people who need to be asked the questions. That's how I've always even looked at, like, the entertainment game. Like, when I got the chance to sit down with Jay Z. We have all of these discussions about, oh, man, would Jay Z still be around if Biggie was alive? Why? Nobody ever asked Jay that. I never understood that. I would rather ask Jay. Oh, you think Jay Z stole Young Chris? Ask Jay that. So when I got the opportunity to interview Jay thirteen years ago, those were just regular random hood questions that we. I got the opportunity to ask him. I treat politics the same way. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not gonna sit around and speculate on whether or not I, you know, oh, man, Kamala Harris locked up all these people for marijuana. Let's ask her the questions. You know, Joe Biden was the author of the 1994 crime bill, the 88 crack laws, the 86 mandatory minimum. Let's talk to him about it.

[Manny Fresh]

Well, but you're more than just a interviewer. You have become a political pundit also. You have political views.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, but I mean. I mean, no different than Y', all.

[Manny Fresh]

Donald Trump tweeted about you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That was crazy. We've been in spaces and your name.

[Andrew Schulz]

Comes up, like, in political settings. And they're like, well, what is he gonna think, speaking about you?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm like, damn, that's crazy how they think we're all monolithic. What is Charlamagne? I don't know. How would I know what he's gonna think? But, yeah, I mean, that's. I mean, listen, that's a cool space to be in for any. For no other reason other than that's the shit that matters. You know what I'm saying? Like, you always want to have a line to people who are involved in shit that matters. Like, you know, it was funny because in one of my group chats earlier with a couple of my political homies, they posted something that. And I'll say it, I don't care. They posted something that Governor Shapiro, Josh Shapiro was talking about in regards to what's going on in Minnesota. And I said, that's funny because that's the first one of the. That's the first person I reached out to. Cause I don't. You know, sometimes you see certain things and you just want to talk directly to somebody who, you know, knows what the hell they talking about in regards to it. Because, man, what we do is very important. Like, we have the ears of tens of millions of people all the time. So I'm not gonna always be right, but I'm at least try to be as informed as possible. I don't wanna be out there just guessing and speculating about certain things. I want to be able to have a informed opinion about what it is I'm talking about. Even if you, you know, disagree with me, it's fair.

[Andrew Schulz]

Is there anybody that you wouldn't sit.

[Manny Fresh]

Down with at this point?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't. I don't think so, because I never understood that, man.

[Manny Fresh]

Oh, yeah, that's a good question to ask. Talk about that. I think I know where you're going with this.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I just never understood it because of. I grew up watching Barbara Walters and Diane Sawyer and Oprah and Donahue. Like the grand wizard of the kkk.

[Andrew Schulz]

That was crazy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Would be on those shows. They would go to the prisons and interview Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, he ate people.

[Manny Fresh]

Also, I think it's the political climate that we in right now with such dangerous rhetoric. People have criticized the Breakfast Club for platforming people that are dangerous, like Ben Shapiro, other people similar. They were like, why would you give him a platform? What's your. What's your response to that?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

These guys already have massive platforms. You're not giving Ben Shapiro.

[Manny Fresh]

Well, I mean, you know, to our, to our culture may not be totally familiar with him, right? So when he comes on and you know, he's an intelligent person, so he's gonna, he's not gonna sound like an idiot when he goes on a Breakfast Club. So it's like, oh, yeah, I can.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think a lot of times people want, they want to see us dunking on folks not realizing. Just watch. If you watch the interview, you'll see a healthy back and forth. You'll see the pushback and stuff like that. And it's funny because when. That's why I like to watch both worlds, right? We'll bring somebody like Ben Shapiro on, it'll just be people mad, like, why y' all got him on there? Should have told him, get the fuck outta here. Blah, blah, blah, this and that.

[Andrew Schulz]

Keep that energy for him.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But on his platform, he'll be like, like, it'll be like such and such verses. Or Ben Shapiro debate Charlemagne on abortion. Like, whatever. Whatever the topic may be. So they frame it a different way. So when it's framed a different way, you go watch it in a different way. But if you're already coming in, like, I don't want that person on there, why is that person there? You're not even going to listen to the conversation to see where there was pushback, you know, what we didn't agree on. And it's funny, even when I go on places like Fox News, people get mad. Just the optics. Did you even listen to what I said? It wasn't until Trump called me a racist sleaze bag with low IQ that people was like, oh, I didn't realize he'd be going on Fox News and be calling them out. I didn't understand. I didn't get that. Yeah, but when I'm on Fox, the Fox News viewers get it. Trust me. We see all the slander and the backlash, like, why y' all bring him? And it's. You see it both ways. You have the black people saying, why do you go on there? And then you'll see their audience like, why the fuck is he on here? He got Trump derangement syndrome. Then you have the people in the middle who actually listen and was like, that was actually a good point.

[Manny Fresh]

Cause we got swept in last election cycle. They put an article out and said.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That, oh, that was crazy.

[Manny Fresh]

Breakfast Club 19 keys, earn your leash. And a few other people have been pushing right wings agenda to black people. And it's dangerous rhetoric. And I was just. I think I might have spoke to the guy that wrote the article. And I'm just like, it's dangerous that you put that out there. Cause like a. It's not true. But also, like, when you say something like that, you never know who's actually gonna believe that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Word up. What I realized is that those people who write those kind of articles don't really have a lot of conversations with a diverse group of black people. They're in a bubble, and they talk to a certain group of black people all the time. So they have no idea what black people think about certain things. I bring this example up all the time, but MSNBC did that to me in regards to the border, because it was three different situations. There was a parking attendant who used to work in the city that I used to see all the time. And he would come to me and complain to me about these gangs from other countries raising hell in his neighborhood. And he wanted something done about it. And I remember him saying, cause Biden got that fucking border open the way that he does. Then my people in Chicago, they were complaining to me just about how the migrants were getting more resources than they were. They felt like, yo, you got people in the south side of Chicago pouring, disenfranchised, who can't get nothing from this government, but they giving these people room and board and money in some cases. So when I'm hearing these conversations, these are black people talking to me about this. So I'll never forget it. I did an interview with Fox News Digital, and the guy simply asked me. He asked me a simple question. Charlamagne, do you think the border is gonna be an issue come November? And I was like, hell, yeah. And literally, I wasn't even expecting him to ask me that question. He just asked me immediately. I just started thinking about all of these people who have been talking to me. I think about when Mayor Adams. I forgot something that happened in the city. And they made all the schools. They made a school. They made all the kids homeschool so the migrants could come in. I forgot. I don't know if it was a snowstorm. It was something that happened in the city, and they made all of them. They let all of the migrants stay in the school while the kids stayed home at home. School and parents called breakfast Club wilding. So I'm just thinking about all of these different scenarios, and I say, yeah, but it's not because of, you know, some prejudice towards brown people. It's because people See, you know, people, Some people feel away about crime and other people feel away about the resources that they see a lot of these migrants getting. So it's an economic issue, man. I remember MSNBC took that and put Charlemagne. Tha God is spreading MAGA messaging. The fuck that got to do with maga? Everybody I talked to was black about this situation. Everybody. So it's just like y' all haven't spoken to anybody outside of your bubble and y' all think certain issues are just naturally right wing issues. And then what happens a year later? What ended up being like the top two issues for people? It was the economy and the border. That's it. That's one of the reasons that he was able to make America feel like they're not safe. And like I always say, man, any politician that can make you feel like they're gonna put more money in your pocket or make you feel safe, they gonna get you every single time. And that's what he did. He ran a great campaign. Now, how he governs, everybody paying for that right now. But he ran a campaign and that caused him to win an election.

[Manny Fresh]

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen.

[Andrew Schulz]

Great. Charlemagne.

[Manny Fresh]

Wow. Before we go, I just gotta ask you, who's your top 5 hip hop radio personalities of all time?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Top 5 hip hop radio personalities of all time. Ah, I hate when I get asked this question because now I gotta be objective and I gotta salute people who love kicking my back in. I mean, definitely Wendy Williams, for sure.

[Manny Fresh]

And you can include yourself.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, I'm not including myself. Wendy Williams, Angie Martinez.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yep.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You gotta put Starr in there. Starr, you don't think so?

[Andrew Schulz]

He's not in your five.

[Manny Fresh]

Outta everybody.

[Andrew Schulz]

He's not in your five.

[Manny Fresh]

Well, I mean, top five all time. Well, finish your Ed Lover. Okay, good one.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And see, that's tough, man. See, it's a tough list. You know what? Hold on, let me back up a little bit.

[Andrew Schulz]

Is that love? And Dr. Dre is one.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay, let me back up a little bit. Wendy Williams.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Angie Martinez, Sway.

[Manny Fresh]

Okay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay, Big Boy.

[Manny Fresh]

Okay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Ed Lovell. Okay, then I would. Yeah, you're right. Then it would be. You can even edit that. That's my top five. My top five. That's my top five. My top 5 is Wendy Williams, Angie Martinez, Big Boy, Sway, and Lover. That's the top five to me. Hip hop radio personalities of all time.

[Manny Fresh]

I was definitely gonna put Big Boy in there for sure. I was gonna put you in there for sure. Even Flex. I mean, regardless, I can't put him.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Over those five and then you said personality. See, to me, it's a difference between a personality and a dj. And I mean, he's both. Right, But I still. Those five, I mean, you can go to iconic interviews. They're icons, but you can go to iconic interviews from each and every one of them. Like, literally, like. I mean, Big Boy.

[Manny Fresh]

Big Boy, Yeah. Cause of the whole West Coast.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, Big.

[Manny Fresh]

Listen, here's why I don't have.

[Andrew Schulz]

I know he's a legend.

[Manny Fresh]

He got a coast.

[Andrew Schulz]

He has an entire coast. I ain't grow up listening to it. Like, we didn't have access to that. I understand he's a legend, but we grow up in the 90s, so, like.

[Manny Fresh]

Yeah, people didn't grow up listening to Angie Martinez if he was in California.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, I didn't grow up listening to.

[Andrew Schulz]

No, we did, though. I was saying it's our. It's our list.

[Manny Fresh]

No, I'm just saying I was in.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

South Carolina, so I didn't hear none of them on regular. But that's why I say those five to me, because they transcended whatever region they were in. And this was before the Internet, you know what I mean? This was before national syndication. You just. Big Boy was in movies. Sway was all over mtv. And you had interviews that you would hear about. Like, you would hear about the Locks went on there and Wild out on Diddy. Yo, R. Kelly just came on and said he got pepper sprayed by Jay Z. Like, those are historic moments, right? Wendy was.

[Andrew Schulz]

I mean, that goes without saying.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All the shock jock shit and everything everybody's doing now.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's probably the first person I ever.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wendy ushered. All that bullshit.

[Manny Fresh]

Well, Breakfast Club is the biggest platform we've ever seen of all time.

[Andrew Schulz]

I think Wendy was the biggest personality. Like, I remember listening. This is like wbls. It was like her. And then, like, Red Alert would come on and, like, this is the first time. Like, Cool Hurt. Like, not cool hurt DJ, not. What's his name? Chub Rock DJ. What was his DJ?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Mr. Magic. No, it's probably too old.

[Andrew Schulz]

Early than that. But I'm like, yo, this is like the first introduction to, like, radio. Like, before you even, like.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schulz]

Finding personalities. Then Ed Lover and those guys came.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Ed lover and Dr. Dre had a movie. Like, we forget that. Who's the man? Like, yo, these. These people were transcending the soundtrack with a soundtrack.

[Manny Fresh]

But they also had MTV though, too, so that was.

[Andrew Schulz]

They had yo, that was, too, though.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That came from radio.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, like, yo, T Raps was.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't remember.

[Andrew Schulz]

And then they got. Yeah, I think so.

[Manny Fresh]

Cause they was on power 105 even before that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They was on 97 high.

[Andrew Schulz]

97 first, and then they went to power 105.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, these guys. Like, I always looked at the people who transcended radio, like, who showed you that you can be more than a radio personality. Those are the people who influenced me. Like, when I started getting into television and stuff, that wasn't a shock to me because I saw all those people I just named do it. You know, before me, when people were calling me to make cameos in movies and on TV shows, none of that surprised me. Cause I had saw everybody do that before me. To me, that was like. Like the hip hop star radio kit. Like, you know, do you have a book? Have you made an appearance on a TV show? Like, that is the type of stuff that I used to look at. So that top five, to me, those are the ones that are golden. And when you look at somebody like Wendy, man, Wendy left hip hop radio and went to television and had a 14, 15 year run on national daytime TV. That was unprecedented, bro.

[Manny Fresh]

That's a fact. No, she's definitely up there for sure.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And Angie. I mean, wait till Angie. Wait till Angie Martinez gets in her storytelling back. Wait till somebody like Angie Martinez, who was at the forefront of 90s culture, who is beloved by everybody, right? Wait until she starts telling us those stories from the 90s. Like, you know, like the Tupac interview that she. She's such a woman of integrity that.

[Andrew Schulz]

You'Re gonna put out.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We are.

[Andrew Schulz]

I text you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, I was gonna. No, it's coming. No, no, no. It's been a lot of conversations since then.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's good.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And Angie's like, nah, fuck that. Y' all be on my head too much about this. Every time it even gets mentioned and.

[Andrew Schulz]

You got the right place.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes. See, it's definitely coming out. But, you know, But Angie's got her own situations going on too. But we're definitely gonna.

[Manny Fresh]

You know, she's one of the most talented people ever. Like, even us being interviewed by her. But it's like, you could just realize, like, some people, it's just different level of interviewer because it's so easy. The conversation is so easy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I always said Angie's superpower is making people comfortable. And that is a very rare trait to have you talking about being the person that everybody goes to. Like, read Angie's book. R. Kelly gets pepper sprayed at the garden. You just got pepper sprayed at the garden. The first thing you want to do is Go talk to Angie Martinez. Angie's not even on the air. So they got to bump whoever's off the air to put Angie on so R. Kelly can come talk to him. And then as R. Kelly's there, hov is like, I'm coming to the station. R. Kelly, you got to go because you're talking about being pepper sprayed. Who pepper sprayed you wants to talk about pepper spraying? I'm not saying that that happened. I don't know. But that's what's in the book.

[Andrew Schulz]

That actually happened.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That actually happened.

[Andrew Schulz]

I was at the show the next night.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Really.

[Andrew Schulz]

It was a crazy show. Cause he brought. Cause he had to fill in all that time. So he brought like ti. He brought fat.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, I remember that Jay Z inference. But that's my point. Like, think about it. The locks come on and want to talk about that was crazy. Throwing a refrigerator off a roof on Diddy Diddy. Got to come in with the contracts. On Angie show.

[Andrew Schulz]

I think our biggest moment is definitely takeover ether like how being up there.

[Manny Fresh]

K Slay, he played a part too.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But we don't even talk about that. We don't even talk about how many artists she helped break. Break. Yeah, she broke Jay Z. First person to ever play a Jay Z song on the radio was Angie Martinez.

[Andrew Schulz]

Battle of the Beast.

[Manny Fresh]

Was she?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes. Battle of the Beast. I forgot what record it was, but it was Battle of the Beast. It was Ain't no.

[Manny Fresh]

Ain't no.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Before Ain't no.

[Manny Fresh]

Was it when you was rapping fast?

[Andrew Schulz]

Nah, I gotta be in my life.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It might have been in my lifetime.

[Andrew Schulz]

In my lifetime.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't remember Sending the book was retired, though.

[Andrew Schulz]

That won five nights in a row.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It did, Yeah.

[Andrew Schulz]

I used to keep track of her five nights in a row.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It was Ain't no. I don't remember. I just know it was. Whatever it was. It was Jay Z's first time getting played on the radio.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And that's when him and Dane pulled up to Angie with the Rockefeller Benz with the Rockefeller logo on the front with Shane.

[Manny Fresh]

I thought it was Flex. I remember Flex told the money and dame tried to pay him and he was like, look, I'm not gonna take the money, but I'm gonna play the record.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Angie. Angie played the. Angie played whole first. And that's what I'm saying. Angie. We don't give Angie Martinez the credit she deserves. Yo. I really. We don't give her her flower supposed to. She is a I and always been a person of integrity. Like, you think about it. I Don't want to put the Tupac interview out, because I know what this can. Cause how many people will do that now?

[Manny Fresh]

All right, now they putting it out before it's edited.

[Andrew Schulz]

They putting it out thinking about it after.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

At the time. Think about how big Tupac was as a star. He on there talking filthy about everybody viral.

[Andrew Schulz]

That was a moment listening to her. We spoke to her about that story and the part where he didn't really know who she was until he got to jail. Because he's listening to her every day in jail.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You see what I'm saying?

[Andrew Schulz]

He's like, yo, I need to sit down with her.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yo, we talk about that. Think about her being a judge on American Idol.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's a fact.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And then saying, I don't wanna do this. I don't wanna have to tell nobody that she's not good.

[Andrew Schulz]

She's there for Big, too.

[Manny Fresh]

Like, there's big stories, and she never went bad on nobody.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Never.

[Manny Fresh]

Most radio personalities, at some point, they become the villain. You started out as the villain.

[Andrew Schulz]

You was a definite.

[Manny Fresh]

You were the villain, the ultra villain.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I could still be if I want to.

[Manny Fresh]

You pivoted, though.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I pivoted because. You know why? I started to realize, like, I felt like I was punching down. Because when I first started, you know, I'm a little from Monk's Corner, and it's like, yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm going at the diddies and I'm going at the people that's way now. It's like, when you get to a certain position, it's like, why am I shitting on this new young artist coming out of Atlanta for? It's like, why? Like, these are just young brothers and sisters trying to make it. I'm not supposed to like their music. And that was something I even saw a lot of older personalities do. I used to listen to them, and you could see where they got. They turned into curmudgeons. And they didn't. Time had changed, and they didn't like the way times were changing. So you either evolve or die. So to me, if I ever get to the point where I'm really sick of this shit like this, I just won't do it no more. I'm not gonna be on the radio shitting on Soulja Boy. Why? And I used to hear that. I heard a whole stop shitting on me. OG generation of personalities acting like Soulja Boy was the worst thing that ever happened. And that didn't make any sense to me. Cause I'm like, you're not supposed to like that. You're 40, almost 50 years old. So if you gonna be in the space, let them cook. And so it's like for me, it's like, I don't need to be that person no more. I'd rather go piss off the President now.

[Manny Fresh]

Piss off the.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I'm saying?

[Manny Fresh]

That's the new book, Piss off the President.

[Andrew Schulz]

I got like two other things I actually off camera, but. But one of them is that the late night thing that you spoke of, obviously. Artonio hall, the influence. We see you on the Daily Show. It feels like a natural thing.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Man, I love doing the Daily Show.

[Andrew Schulz]

What's the deal?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I mean, salute to Comedy Central. I have my own show with Comedy Central. The God's Honest Truth. Then we changed it to the Helluva Week. And I mean, it was a cool show. A lot of the stuff that we talked about on the show is aging well. I just put up a clip of it over the weekend about denazification and how a lot of times we have a lot of these conversations about, oh, this is 19, we're going back to 1940s Germany. And you know, listen, there was a lot of death, there was a lot of loss, but the Nazis ultimately lost. I think we need to keep that in perspective. And when they lost, there was a denazification of the whole Germany. Like we're going to get to a point in America where that's going to happen because you know, whenever you have an anti democratic political movement, you're going to get pushback culturally, legally and institutionally. It's just the natural thing. So there's gonna be a demagification of America. So a lot of the stuff we did on that show, it aged well, but I mean, it just, it didn't do well enough to stay on the air. So, you know, you get two seasons of it and you move on. But they like me in that space. And so when it came, when the Daily show was rotating host after Trevor Noah left, they bought me in to be a guest host. And yeah, it was just one of those things. Like it just fit like a glove, man. Like that's a well oiled machine over there at the Daily Show. Like you really gotta be whack to not have success at the Daily Show. No, seriously, it's literally like probably playing for the patriots in the 90s, early 2000s, or like playing for the Bulls in the 90s. It's just a system that you, if you got talent, just go in there and be a Part of the system. And, like, I can go in there with different ideas, different pov. They might have been listening to me on a podcast or Breakfast Club, heard me say something and say, yo, let's expound on that. And, like, literally, I can go in there in a day and come out with one of those monologues. Cause, you know, the writing team over there is so ill. You know, I got my own ideas. I write myself as well. And it's just. Yeah, I love the Daily Show. I love what they do over there.

[Manny Fresh]

When Trump had that tweet about you, did that impact you in any way? Like, did you feel external pressure or people reaching out or, you know, I.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Mean, it's just like anything else. You wake up and you see a bunch of text messages. You don't quite know what's going on because you literally. You're just waking up. And then, of course, the President of the United States of America, you're like, oh, shit. And then you take a deep breath and you like, this what you. This is what you're here for. This is what you signed.

[Manny Fresh]

So it didn't impact you in any way?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Not that I know of. You know what I mean? But, like, that's. I mean, that's such a good point, because there are a lot of things, especially when you're forget anything involved in hip hop. Like, anything that can happen from that is nothing I've never seen before. Y' all see, you've seen me get punched in the back of the head on video and running down the street. Like, you've seen. Like, I've been coming out of the pharmacy in New York and people try to attack me. Like, you see stuff like that back in the day. But those different conversations, those political conversations are even coming to the defense of people who may be getting, you know, attacked. Yeah, you'll see that show up in the real world. Like, I remember there was one incident. There was one incident in particular. I'll tell y' all off here, but, yeah, there was, like, some real. What? What you mean I can't get house insurance?

[Manny Fresh]

Oh, you told me about that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I told you I can't get health insurance. What? Like, that's crazy, yo. This is real rendered. That's. But. But that. That's. You know, when you. When you have certain conversations and, you know, you come to the defense of certain things, like, yeah, shit like that is gonna happen, so I don't even know why. Yeah, whatever. I tell Troy off it. I don't want to get nobody no ideas, please.

[Manny Fresh]

All right. My brother. Well, thank you, man. Thank you for having me.

[Andrew Schulz]

Appreciate you, my guy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, sir.

[Manny Fresh]

I'm glad we. We got a chance to do it. Like I said, we've known each other for a long time, so.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Long time. Great conversation.

[Manny Fresh]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anything you want to tell the audience before we finish?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. Make sure you check out the Breakfast Club on Netflix, man. Go to Netflix, set your reminders. You know, you still going to see clips on social media, you're still going to see clips on YouTube, but if you want to see a lot of those full conversations, you're going to have to, you know, go on Netflix and we gonna see what happens. Like, we're the first, you know, we're the first up the bat. You know, us and you know the Joe and Jada's and you know, I see Rich, Paul and Max Kellerman on there now. Rory and Maul, Rory and Maul. Ball Stool, did barstool, got some podcasts over there. Iheart got some over there. You know, Spotify got some over there. We just gonna see what happens. Like, you know, we don't know if something's gonna work or not, you know, but, you know, like, I don't. I think that we've. We got enough cachet that if, you know, things don't go right, we'll be okay.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, I think it'll be fine.

[Manny Fresh]

And y', all.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, it's been tested, right? Like you went from Revolt. Like, y' all moved around and people stayed.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, we've seen it before. I mean, even look at what Joe Rogan did with Spotify. Joe Rogan went to Spotify. He was behind a paywall. You know, he still had 10 million people, you know, watching him every month. Right. But then, you know, he came from Spotify, realized, like, that wasn't a good model for them to be behind the paywall with the video and everything else. And so they decided to go wide again. And I don't think Joe Rogan skipped the beat. Yeah, I don't think so. Anyway.

[Manny Fresh]

All right, y'.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All.

[Manny Fresh]

Yes, sir. We see you guys next week. Peace.

[Andrew Schulz]

Peace.

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