← Earn Your Leisure
Earn Your Leisure
David Banner on Losing $12M for Black Activism, Depression, & Why Integration Was Worse Than Slavery
01:22:11
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- [00:00]
Rashad Bilal
Earners. What's up?
- [00:01]
Troy Millings
Look.
- [00:01]
Rashad Bilal
This episode of earn your leisure is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are all things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way versus visit progressive.com to see if you can save on your car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. A lot of people think podcasts about work are boring. And sure, they definitely can be. But understanding a professional's routine shows us how they achieve their success little by little, day after day. It's like banking with PNC Bank. It might seem boring to save, plan, and make calculated decisions with your bank, but keeping your money boring is what helps you live a more happily fulfilled life. PNC bank, brilliantly boring since 1865. Brilliantly boring since 1865 is a service mark of the PNC Financial Service Group, Inc. PNC Bank National association member, FDIC.
- [01:21]
David Banner
All right, guys, welcome back. Yeah, EYL. This is going to be a special episode, man. A friend of ours, David Banner.
- [01:26]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah. Long overdue, man.
- [01:28]
Troy Millings
Yeah. Before we even start, man, I want to tell you, you guys inspired I am by you all and how proud I am of you all and your business acumen. Not just as thought leaders, but just as black people in the financial space, man. I'm so proud of you all to be able to mobilize people the way that you all did the. The way that you market, how you all put it together and just. Just being all around, just trailblazers in that space, man, because that was a space that was needed to be able to see a deficit and to be able to cover that, man. Like, I'm very, very proud of y'. All.
- [02:03]
David Banner
Thank you.
- [02:04]
Rashad Bilal
Appreciate that, man.
- [02:04]
David Banner
Thank you, man. That means a lot, receives a lot. And every time we see you, it's always been good energy.
- [02:09]
Troy Millings
Yeah.
- [02:10]
David Banner
So, you know, definitely the feeling is mutual.
- [02:13]
Troy Millings
Yeah.
- [02:13]
David Banner
Feeling is mutual. So, David somebody, that when most people heard of you, it was through music, Right. But I've seen you transition in multiple different genres. So from a producer to a rapper to an actor to an activist on a certain level, to an entrepreneur to a variety of different things that you do. You're a renaissance man of sorts. So I want to start at the beginning, Mississippi. Right at that time, to my knowledge, there wasn't a major artist, rap artists that came out of Mississippi. Is that correct?
- [02:50]
Troy Millings
No, it was some major artists. There was a group called Wildlife Society. I forgot the name of the record label. The record label almost popped really big. They had. I'm trying to think of the rapper. I know y' all know his name, but they were signed to, you know, how. Penalty. Back when I was on Penalty, when Nori was on Penalty, it was one of those labels, one of those subsidiary labels that was really, really close to popping like Penalty did. But there was a group called Wildlife Society that was on. I keep forgetting the name of the group that Hammer had, but Hammer. MC Hammer had. MC Hammer had a group that was out of Mississippi, and they had a very, very big singer. There was the female rapper out of that group. Her name was Treasure. She actually ended up going solo, and she saw some success, too. So it's been, you know, some groups that have been out. I think with me, it was just that I came at the right time, you know, SRC was just starting after Steve Rifkin, you know, was coming off of his loud success. And I think it was just time, spirit, luck, you know, me being prepared and ready for the moment. And it just all came together, bro, and it was history.
- [04:09]
David Banner
Like a Pimp. That's the song?
- [04:11]
Troy Millings
Yes.
- [04:12]
David Banner
Where you on Lil Flip?
- [04:13]
Troy Millings
Yes.
- [04:14]
David Banner
That's the first time I said it was like. Like a pimp. And you had, like, a very big entry into the rap game. Right. So my question is, coming from Mississippi, where there wasn't a lot of traction, let's just say that, right? It's not like Atlanta or New York or la, but we always hear about, like, the Southern hustle as far as, like, the stories of people selling music out of their trunks of their CDs, stuff like that. Like, CDs out the trunk of their car, was that something that you. You did from a grassroots level?
- [04:44]
Troy Millings
Yes. So I'm gonna tell you, you all something just because you are who you are to me. So what happened was that nobody ever talks about is that we as independent artists, because we don't talk to each other as black men. That's something that I like about our relationship. Bro, I've called you before when there was something that I didn't understand and was like, bro, can you tell me what this means? Bro, how do I do this? Or I'm going into the tech industry. What would you suggest that I do? We've had that conversation both in person and on the phone. Right, but we don't do that as artists, bro. Like, what was happening was if you calculate the amount of money that independent artists were making, especially in Texas and in the Bay, like, they were kicking the shit. Can I say shit? Yeah, okay.
- [05:39]
Rashad Bilal
Yes, okay.
- [05:40]
Troy Millings
Yes, you can say shit. They was kicking the shit out of major labels, bro. You got to think about, like, the South Park Mexicans, bro. You got to think, bro.
- [05:50]
David Banner
Slim Thug.
- [05:51]
Troy Millings
Yeah, Slim Thug, Little Flip, I think did 80,000 or 120,000 or something like that, bro. Think about what? E40 and too short and Master P and all of them people. Now put all of them people together, bro, and think about the millions and then that. You got to think. That's when you know you was getting 10, $10 a record, bro. You know what I'm saying? And so what they ended up doing, bro, is soaking up all of the independent artists, bro, and signing them the deals. In a lot of cases, this is just my opinion, with not even the hopes of them being successful to move us out of the way of their major artists, bro. And one of the only reasons why I didn't fail is because I produced my own music. I marketed my own music. I had enough good people around me to tell me, like, you know, and a lot of artists thought I was crazy because, you know, Universal was still taking out of my budget to, you know, get record promoters and radio promoters and video promoters. But I still. Out of my own money that I made, I had my own radio promoter, I had my own video promoter, because I just knew. And I went to the president of Universal one time, and he told me he was like, banner, like, I know you a smart guy and you're gonna figure this out. And he really gave me the game. So the thing was, it was like, man, why are you double spending your money? Cause I know them folks are not gonna do me, right? They're not gonna. At least they're not gonna do me like I did.
- [07:17]
David Banner
So, like, an independent artist, even though.
- [07:19]
Troy Millings
You was on the label and every record that I didn't work myself failed. So what would usually happen is that if you even. I don't know if people notice, but, like, I came into universal with 800 spins on radio while I was sleeping in my van. I was homeless, you know, I don't know if y' all knew the story about my red van. Like, I built the studio in my van.
- [07:42]
David Banner
Like an rv.
- [07:43]
Troy Millings
Yeah. No, no, no. It was just a regular work van. And I went in, got a. What do you call those? The things that you put into the lighter. You put it into a lighter and then you plug whatever into transition.
- [07:59]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah, it's like an extension cord, in a sense, but it's like you're using the power from the light.
- [08:04]
Troy Millings
So I literally. If you go back and listen to Mississippi, the album that had, like, a pimp on it, if you listen to the interludes, you can hear the people passing in the van. And one of the things that also made me popular is, like, if a DJ wanted to drop, I tell them to come to my van. You know, I could even do verses in my van. That's why I tell these kids there's never no excuse. Like, people in the south know this story, and I was sleeping in that van, you know.
- [08:30]
David Banner
So you was homeless?
- [08:32]
Troy Millings
Yes.
- [08:32]
David Banner
So how'd you link up with Lil Flip? Cause he was already lit at that time.
- [08:35]
Troy Millings
Yeah, well, what happened was, is that what people don't know is that I produced Thug Holiday for Trick Daddy. So I never wanted to be a producer. But I come to find out a lot of people don't know that. People. The person who. I would never call him my stepfather, but the people who. The person who people know as my father is actually not my biological father. He raised me from when I was three and come to find out that my biological father played 13 instruments. With the exception of playing in the band or whatever in school, I've never been classically trained. And like, bro, I've co produced Quincy Jones before, Maroon 5, Chris Brown, Justin Bieber. I'm executive co executive producing Geo Scott's album right now. So, like, bro, I did it all, man. You know, and that's one thing that I want to tell people that I'm learning about being a businessman. And if y' all don't listen to nothing else, I say, man, it's like, you have to have an extraordinary team. And regardless of whether you all tried to do it or not, one of the things that is very special about you all is that y' all did it as a group. Y' all did it as a family. And that's the power of America is family. And that's the reason why they want us in these boxes, on these computers. That's the reason why I really think Covid happened is that, see, we won't congregate with each other. True information is not just verbal. It's also a vibe. It's also getting together. It's sometimes it's envy, sometimes it's competition. That's just being in the room, competing with each other, speaking to Me and Lil Flip, bro. People used to think that me and Lil Flip was beefing because we was so competitive against each other. I remember Jim Jones is in the studio with us one time when we was doing a song. It's called Talk to Me Now. It's funny. This white movie just licensed it, licensed the song. And I can't wait to hear. See a all white movie with a song that aggressive. If the boys won't woe talk to me now if the boy won't woe talk. Lay it down, motherfucker. Lay it down, you bitch. And I was like, to see the white white boy with that record on, bro.
- [10:54]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah, bitch.
- [10:56]
Troy Millings
But what happened with me and Lil Flip was that I was already a popping producer, like in the hood, like all over. I mean, probably from Tulsa, Oklahoma to Florida. And so Lil Flip just told me, him being the businessman that he is, he was like, bro, you give me two beats, I give you a verse. And so I didn't even like the like a pimp beat. I'm being honest with you. It just had pimp C. I had sampled pimp C on the hook. And so I was like, well, I know Lil Flipper like it cause it got C on it. I'll just get Lil Flip verse and then I'll go back and make the beat again. I was popping so much and moving so much. Cause this is something that I think that will help you guys with this show that people don't know about. I ran a three state distribution company out of the back of my van. I may have been the first artist to ever put a store up online. People don't know that.
- [11:52]
David Banner
And your website, you were selling stuff.
- [11:55]
Troy Millings
Yep. One of my friends worked at Xerox. Wow. So he was in the tech before the average person was in the tech. So he set up a store for me. Right. And so anywhere within a three, I said three state radius, if it was enough, I would actually take the CDs myself. Especially if I was driving to go do beats or go do.
- [12:17]
David Banner
You was hand delivering them?
- [12:18]
Troy Millings
Yes, hand delivering them. If it was enough. If not, then I would just send it in the mail.
- [12:24]
Rashad Bilal
The original Amazon Prime.
- [12:25]
Troy Millings
Exactly. You know what I'm saying? That's another one we not thinking about. You know, I just saw something online that said that I may have been the first person to do NFTs. I don't quite know about that one, but I know that I was probably, if not the first one, one of the first people to do crowdfunding.
- [12:47]
David Banner
Okay, let's break this down?
- [12:48]
Troy Millings
Yeah.
- [12:49]
David Banner
Okay. NFTs, how'd you. What was your involvement with that?
- [12:52]
Troy Millings
Well, see, the thing is, is that when you are the first, you don't really know what you're doing. You don't realize what you're doing. And the thing was, is that I wasn't doing it to make stuff easier for other people. I was doing it because, like, in my company to this day, ask any of my staff, when they come to me and ask me, is it good enough? Ask my staff what is the first thing I tell them? I always tell them, is it good enough for Apple? Apple was always the company from their inception, that was the company that I always competed against because that shit was so clean, it was so easy. How did they get their phone down to just one button? Even think about the packaging.
- [13:32]
David Banner
How do you store all white?
- [13:34]
Rashad Bilal
Everything, bro, everything.
- [13:36]
Troy Millings
Like, if you look at. My God, boxes that act, that soul. And some people said it was one of the greatest marketing. They said it was a marketing scheme. I said it wasn't a marketing scheme because I meant what I was doing. It wasn't a scheme. It was a box of consciousness. I took all the things that helped me to become conscious and I put it in a box. And what I did is I said I wanted to cater to every sense that a human being has. So the slickness of the box. Women always tell me how good I smell. Didn't you smell me, baby, when I walked in the room? I know you did. It was quite elegant. I see the way that you're looking at me and oh, no, you wasn't locked in. You smelled me, woman. But no, women would always talk about how good I smell. So I would spray my cologne in the boxes, literally. So when they open up the box, male or female, when they smelled it, when they touched it, like, whether we know it or not, we represent culture. And I knew, especially during that time in music, anytime you thought of black independent, people would always try to make it feel like it was low quality. So I always wanted to represent us at a level, at a zenith level where people will always be proud of me. That's the reason why I'm enough of a man to come on here today and say the way that you all represent culture transcends just business and music. Like, you all are doing something that inspire people all over the world. I'm in meetings all the time and y' all name come up.
- [15:03]
David Banner
Appreciate.
- [15:04]
Rashad Bilal
Amen. Appreciate that. I mean, it says a lot at. And you use the word transcend and transition in a Certain state.
- [15:10]
Troy Millings
Excuse me. Hold on one second. Can you go back to this camera right here? Damn, I look good. I saw myself. Saw myself on that screen.
- [15:19]
Rashad Bilal
Somebody.
- [15:20]
Troy Millings
Somebody caught.
- [15:22]
David Banner
Okay, go ahead.
- [15:23]
Rashad Bilal
As we were saying moment, the. The transition from being independent artist, signed artist, what is it like when you're trying to, I guess, infiltrate or enter a new space in terms of business? How are people viewing you when you walk into the space? Is it like, hey, this guy's an artist, he doesn't know much. You said that, that the. The head of Universal realized that you were smart guy. But how are the other people in other forms of business looking at you? Were they looking like, this is an artist who may not know or we're not taking them serious because he doesn't come from this background.
- [15:57]
Troy Millings
So I'll say this. I want to answer this question in a very specific way because I'm pretty decent with my hands. I own several firearms and I go to tactical gun training monthly. I can be a little bit more vulnerable than the average artist. And I think it's very important for us to be honest. It's really, really scary. It's scary because a lot of these spaces, unlike you guys, if anything, y' all can fail together. If anything, if something go down, is more than just one of y'. All. In most of these spaces, I'm usually the only one. And even more than that, and I found this out in higher education. As I moved up higher and higher in education, I became not only the only black male, but in a lot of cases, the only black person in a lot of these spaces. You all know this because we've bumped into each other in tech spaces. That's lonely. Especially not only when you are trying to navigate yourself through it, but you're trying to learn it at the same time. So I'm trying to. To continue to make hit records when none of us know the real equation to hit records. I'm trying to stay current, but then I gotta learn accounting. I gotta, you know, I'm going overseas, navigating myself in spaces that I've never been before. Then, you know, what they don't talk about is the music industry gets younger and younger, while the people who own the music industry get older and older and wiser and wiser. So Master P may come up with a stellar contract that breaks down the walls, or Michael Jordan, in the case of shoes, may come up with a deal that's never been seen before. But them white folks are not gonna let that happen again. You gonna have to find another way to do it. And every time we break through, the contracts get tighter and tighter. But we're getting younger and younger and younger, and your music is becoming more disposable and more disposable. So to answer your question directly, in a lot of these spaces, bro, I don't even have anybody to go to in acting, man. Like, I'm acting across from some of the greatest actors on this planet. And I just got Samuel. I just got to the point where I can call Samuel L. Jackson. And although, yeah, I'm tough from a street perspective, but I'm dealing in things and in rooms that I've never, ever experienced before. And like you say I am, I'm representing us whether I want to.
- [18:41]
Rashad Bilal
Right?
- [18:42]
Troy Millings
But I'm just glad that my parents instill something in me. And hip hop, from the standpoint of when I was growing up, was intelligent. So I always learned to study. I'll give you all an example. I actually. My first Gatorade contract, I actually wrote the contract myself. And I wrote the contract because I went to Legal Zone. That's when Legal Zoom first came out. And I downloaded every contract that had something to do with marketing, that had to do anything with commercials and music. And I study watch what I did. Most lawyers charge you by what, the hour, right? Have you ever noticed in most cases, you only really spent 30 minutes, but they always charge you by the what?
- [19:34]
Rashad Bilal
The hour.
- [19:34]
Troy Millings
So every time I would read something in Legal Zoom that I wouldn't. That I didn't understand when my lawyer got his ass up. No, sit your ass back down. I got 30 more minutes. I got these list of questions. So after about 20 times of doing this with my lawyer, I got that shit. And it got to the point where other rappers would call me and say, hey, bro, read over my contract. I could pick out what was wrong. I didn't know how to rewrite the contract, but I could pick out what was wrong. But it was because I had the internal fortitude to study and learn on my own. I hope that answers.
- [20:08]
David Banner
So you got. You got your four hours worth.
- [20:10]
Troy Millings
Oh, shit.
- [20:12]
David Banner
Did they ever get mad at you for like, yo, bro. Yeah, consultation is over?
- [20:17]
Troy Millings
Well, no, I will tell you that. That come to find out, that particular lawyer that I'm talking about ended up being a thief. And. But he told me to my face. He told me two things that were very powerful. Number one, when he read over the Gatorade contract, he said, I corrected a few grammatical errors and a few terms. He said, but for the most part, I can't charge you. He said, you did that. He really looked at me and was like, bro, you did that. And what he did say about me that I thought was honorable. He. He said, david Banner, unlike most people, you handle business the same way you are in real life. Like, one of the hardest things for me is to negotiate with producers because I'm a producer. I say this all the time. Most black people don't want to free the slaves. They want the opportunity to hold a whip. How am I going to fuck over a young producer when I am a producer? That ain't God, like, to me. You feel me? So he was like, you are the same man in the contract that you are on the streets. And that's all I could ever ask in business or in life or in the spiritual realm, period.
- [21:31]
Rashad Bilal
That's integrity right there. You brought up the word loneliness when we were talking about what it's like navigating through these spaces. What we don't talk about is the mental toll that it takes when you're facing that by yourself. Right? Like we're going through something. Obviously, we have each other, we have family around us. How are you navigating from a mental side? Because you're deep into consciousness. How was that for you? Navigating as you're trying to be strategic, of where your next move is going to be?
- [22:00]
Troy Millings
Oh, man. It's hard for me to say because words are so powerful. I wanted. I want to say. I want to say something.
- [22:12]
David Banner
But when you say it, you manifest it.
- [22:15]
Troy Millings
You manifest it. So it's sort of hard for me understanding that, you know, I navigated better. That's what I say. I didn't always navigate it well, because in a lot of cases, we're the first people to do what we've done. Imagine how I felt in Mississippi, going from being homeless. I literally went from being homeless to them announcing David banner has a $10 million deal in the poorest state and arguably the poorest city in America.
- [22:47]
Rashad Bilal
Jackson.
- [22:47]
Troy Millings
Yeah. Yeah. So for me to say that, you know, for people to say that and for me to have to navigate, you know, not understanding taxes, bruh, it's hard to explain to people, just because you're intelligent, that doesn't mean that you know everything. You're intelligent in what you're great at. I didn't know nothing about taxes. And yes, I went to school in business, but name one place that they talk about taxes in business school. I went through the whole fucking curriculum. They don't teach you that, bro. And it's a game so not only. And, bro, I'm glad that y' all asked me this question, because I've never been able to say this before, and I feel comfortable enough to talk about it here. And it also gives y' all something exclusive that I never said before. But, like, bro, I'm still the black man from the streets. I still gotta deal with street shit. So not only do I have to deal.
- [23:42]
Rashad Bilal
Excuse me, Jordan, I'm gonna break.
- [23:44]
Troy Millings
I'm gonna break. I'm gonna break it for a second. Not only do I gotta deal with crackers, which is ignorance, I gotta deal with niggas, too. So I gotta deal with racism. I gotta deal with street shit. I gotta deal with accountants. I gotta deal with lawyers. And then a lot of times, the lawyers are in cahoots with. With the accountants, bro. And then your family. And in the hood, you know, everybody feels ownership. That's not even fair. And most. And none of them bought a cd. That's the crazy thing. Or listen to your music.
- [24:21]
Rashad Bilal
You know, this is the tax they.
- [24:22]
Troy Millings
Don'T talk about, bro. And it's. It's then. And then watch this. Then you're blessed to accrue new information. Because now we're traveled. So, bro, I'm in New York, and I'm in college, and I'm all these different places getting knowledge itself. I learned about Buddhism, and I'm from Mississippi. A Christian, Christian, Christian. And they tell you what, you're going to hell forever, Ever, Ever. So imagine having to navigate through all of those spaces nine times out of ten alone. I remember the women that I used to date, they used to always tell me this. Besides one young lady with two young ladies, it was one young lady from St. Louis, from U City, and it was one lady, one young lady from here. She was from Hollis, Queens. Those were the only two ladies that I ever dealt with that pushed my activism, the activism side of me. Most women would say, you got all this money. What you worried about that for? I've always, like, it's funny, I was telling. I was talking to my publicist team yesterday. We had a slight little tiff. And I asked him, I was like, what's the only time that I act a donkey? Tell me. The only time I ever get upset is about the liberation of black people. You ain't never had no problems with me about nothing. So if people are treating my people right, you ain't never gotta worry about me. So then think about that, too. Being an activist in Mississippi, imagine hearing Brand Newbie and Sadat X. I stopped eating pork in 11th grade in Mississippi. Think of what my mom and dad, they thought about me. Oh, you ain't gonna eat this pork chop, Then you ain't gonna eat jack. Not caught. But watch this, though. I'm gonna tell y' all how much my mom and dad loved me. Once they found out that I was serious about not eating pork, my whole family stopped eating pork. I didn't notice that till I was a grown man.
- [26:22]
David Banner
Turkey bacon. Mama cooked breakfast with no hole.
- [26:25]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah, that was a moment. Today was even fast. Like, I stopped, too.
- [26:28]
Troy Millings
Yeah.
- [26:29]
Rashad Bilal
That's crazy.
- [26:30]
Troy Millings
Yeah.
- [26:31]
David Banner
So what made you stop eating pork?
- [26:33]
Rashad Bilal
I was listening. My brother stopped listening. He was listening to Brand New Being. Obviously, I'm listening to it because he's listening to it. And I was like, all right, if he gonna stop, then I'm gonna stop. Like, this is like, I'm like 8, 9 years old.
- [26:44]
Troy Millings
Let me tell y' all what's amazing about hip hop, man. Imagine this, bro. I was actually able to tell Sadat X. Cause, like, a lot of times, people still look at me as David Banner. A lot of people that I look up to actually look up to me. And I never thought that would ever be the case, bro. Like, I'm looking up to them, and they coming. They asking me, like, damn, Banner, where did you learn this? What book? And how did you do this? But I was actually able to tell Sadat, like, bro, you the reason why I stopped eating pork, bro. You changed my whole life, dawg. That's ill. That's fire.
- [27:16]
David Banner
Let me ask you this on the independent side. Snoop. I only met Snoop one time, and it was crazy because he gave a lot of game just in a very short period of time. One of the things that he said was extremely insightful. He was saying that we're talking about Beats by Dre, and, you know, everybody know that. I think Apple bought it for $800 million, something like that. And he was like, sometimes they'll buy you to shelf you.
- [27:41]
Troy Millings
Yeah.
- [27:42]
David Banner
Meaning, like, Beast by Dre was lit. They had everybody. They had all the rappers. They had athletes there. You don't really see too much about Beats by Dre now.
- [27:51]
Troy Millings
So his Apple.
- [27:52]
Rashad Bilal
Apple bought them.
- [27:53]
David Banner
Apple bought them.
- [27:53]
Troy Millings
Yeah.
- [27:53]
David Banner
So he's. His thing was like, as soon as Apple buys Beast by Dre, all you hear is iPod, the AirPods. So they essentially brought the competition to kill the competition so they could push their products, which is airpods. And as opposed to Beats by Dre.
- [28:08]
Troy Millings
Where have you heard that before, though?
- [28:10]
David Banner
Well, that's what I'M tying in with the music because, like, Slim Thug is my guy. Like, that's a personal friend of ours. And he was saying, like, how he kind of regretted going to a label because it's like, the label, the allure of a label. Like, I got a deal now. I got my own label under a label. But he was, like, looking back on was better to just stay the independent route.
- [28:34]
Troy Millings
Yeah.
- [28:35]
David Banner
You think that. That. That the music business has done that? Like, of course.
- [28:38]
Troy Millings
That's what I was alluding to earlier. I even take it a step further. Okay, then. All right, See, y' all starting with me now. I'm trying to stay on business. All right, so peep this. Watch this, watch this. Gonna blow your mind. It's funny because I saw part of it here. What was the big. The Virgin Megastore. That was when I knew they won. Watch this.
- [29:03]
Rashad Bilal
Times Square.
- [29:04]
Troy Millings
So they sucked up all of the independent artists first, gave us more money than we ever seen before. But what that is to them is a tax write off, right? Because they make sure in most cases that we fail. And then the other rappers who were like me, unlike you know what I'm saying? If. Let's say, Manie Fresh decided that he wanted to leave, right? I don't have that problem because I produce also. If Baby decided to leave, then they don't have to worry about that. Cause I run my business. I understand my business. If Wayne decided to leave, well, they rapper left or juvie decided to leave, or BG decided to leave, well, I do the rappers, I do the rapping. So what ended up happening is after they gave all this money and we thought we had all of this money, and then the first thing that you all know, I didn't understand this. What, 40, 45% of it is gone just in taxes, right? Then you catching up for all of the borrowing that you did and not having or getting your first house and car, getting your mom straight. What CeeLo Green said that money be gone. So they did that. That was easy. Then watch what they did. I myself got a $70,000 check from Southwest Distribution. We didn't need the majors. We had Gonzalez, we had Southwest. We had distribution companies. Real solid distribution companies. They soaked them up and bought them out. Then guess what? They did. Black people learn how to get mom and pop stores, even though a lot of them was burning CDs in the back and bootlegging. But that was. We even learned how to. We actually learned how to press CDs.
- [30:46]
Rashad Bilal
This is a fact, right in our own homes.
- [30:48]
Troy Millings
Then they sucked up the mom and Pop stores. I don't know if y' all remember when they would put all the. The feds started going to the mom and Pop stores. Like, they were really. Like, they were selling drugs, bro.
- [30:58]
David Banner
Right?
- [30:58]
Troy Millings
So then they sucked up the mom and Pop stores. Then after they sucked up the mom and Pop stores, then they went for the major stores.
- [31:05]
David Banner
Sam. Goody, bro.
- [31:06]
Troy Millings
We at Virgin. All we gotta do is say the Virgin Megastore, bro. Literally. And I know. I know, Jordan, but I gotta say it, bro. Like, the Virgin Mega Store was one of the few times besides walking into a strip club where I think I slightly had an orgasm when I was walking to the store, allegedly. I mean, just being a. I mean, just being a, bro. One thing that people don't understand about me, bro, is I really loved hip hop. I really loved it. I really thought it was this real thing, bro. I right, like, bro. And I peep what they did to the game, bro. And then we were okay with streaming after that, bro. Like, we. It's just like, bro, we. We are addicted to following our oppressors. No matter how they treat us, no matter how bad they do us, we run behind them, bro. I just left Forbes, and what I was telling them over there at Forbes was like, one of the sad things is that we get caught in the trends, no matter how detrimental those trends may be to us. Like, I told them, there's nothing from a business standpoint that you can tell me that was positive about streaming. And you all are on your business acumen, bro. At least at y' all age, bro. I don't know too many people, y' all ages that beat y' all on that side. Tell me one positive thing about streaming you were getting. I just told you. I was getting $10 a CD, two fractions of pennies to just allow somebody to play my music over and over again on their site. That's all streaming is. They just play up perpetually, play your shit over and over again, and then people tap into their site. What's smart about that?
- [32:48]
David Banner
It's the psychological. Even Swizz. Swizz B Test said something that was insightful. Also, he went to Harvard, like, that program that they have. And he was like, one thing that he picked up is that in business, you don't have to give somebody ownership, but you just make them feel like they have ownership in their work. So he equated that to labels. He's like, so when they started giving everybody a label, they felt empowered because now you're Under a power structure that you psychologically want to be under anyway. And they make. You're still a worker, but you have a title of a CEO. So now everybody got a label, but nobody has distribution. Nobody has real ownership. But that's a way to keep everybody happy and satisfied.
- [33:30]
Troy Millings
It's so crazy, bro. I wrote this thesis paper that directly correlated and connected slavery in the plantation to record labels, you know? And through me doing my. And through me doing my research, I found that there was something that was called yard niggas. So you look at.
- [33:58]
David Banner
That's like field.
- [33:59]
Troy Millings
Well, no, the field niggas are the rappers, right? The yard niggas are the A&Rs. The house niggas are the, like, the label execs, right? And so, bro, this. You know, I had a partner that helped me in it, but it was genius, and I may turn it into a book one day, bro. Whether we know it or not, bro, people act just like slaves and don't know it. Like, dude, like, if you look at just getting a deal, usually when you look at getting hot in the hood as a rapper or as a beat producer, all that is is recruiting power, right? And what's the first thing you do when you go get power? You don't believe that you can wield that power. So you go find you a white dude to do it for you. Why couldn't a black person do it? Why couldn't you do it? Like, what. What is it? What is a. What is it about us that we can't create our own Internet, dawg? Why you can't create your own store, bro? And then as soon as we start figuring it out and be like, oh, we can do this shit, and I'll give you all a great example. And I blow people mind every time I tell them this. You remember when shooting a video, a rap video, was just like science? Like, everybody was afraid to do it and nobody thought it, that it could be done. And somebody somewhere just went and got a fucking camera and shot that bitch. Everybody started shooting the music video. And it's starting to happen in movies now. Black folks are starting to say, like, oh, damn, we can use this iPhone and shoot a movie and put it up on tubi, which you can do to be yourself. So what ends up happening, bro, is like, people won't admit that they still have slave mindsets, bro. And the crazy thing is, I tell black people this all the time is we talk about Jesus all the time. Black folks get on, they Jesus kick. Jesus, Jesus. But when anybody start acting like Jesus, we usually crucify them ourselves. Anytime somebody said, well, I'm going to run this myself or I'm going to do this or I'm going to. Because I believe that why would God allow us to be thinking beings, thinking sentient beings if it wasn't meant for us to challenge things? And so all of those people that ever challenged anything, they usually ended up dead or, or in jail.
- [36:31]
Rashad Bilal
It's a fact. Language is important. And you use the word thought when you thought hip hop was. It almost feels like you don't know, recognize it now or hip hop is imperialism. Have you fallen out of love with it?
- [36:47]
Troy Millings
I have, I have, I have, I have.
- [36:49]
Rashad Bilal
Let's talk about that.
- [36:50]
Troy Millings
Yes, I have. But let me tell you why I think God allowed me to. So watch this. Just like they created that feeling of hip hop that made us think that it was real. We can do that. On the other end of spec, on, on the other end of the spectrum, me and Jordan, that's from my, my publicist team, we talked about it today. Imagine if I created a company that gave cause. All you gotta do is create a company and get all our friends and all I thought about that. Going to get Snoop, going to get Raheem Devon, getting all. Get Crit and all us put a company together and just make the splits equitable and then give other artists what they deserve, what we know that we want. Maybe God put us through what we're going through so we can be the person to do it. I don't think the story of Jesus was about a man coming down to bear a cross for you. I think it was about God coming in a physical form to show you how to bear your own cross. If I can come down here and be a man and do it, you can too. You remember the story of Jesus when he was walking on water and he had other people walking with him until they started doing what? Doubting you are made out out of the same stuff God is made out of. You think it, you do it. So why are we so scared? This is why. It's the greatest time in history as businessmen. Cuz you all know this. They thought we were crazy. They thought you all were crazy until you did it. Think about, bro, me doing hip hop in Mississippi, bro. They thought I was crazy today. Sound like a pimp, bro. All God has to do is give you vision. People perish because of a lack of vision, bro. We see it. And I want to tell you all this, this is very important. You must listen to me on this, bro. Bro, we have to stop getting mad when people don't see our vision. If people see your vision, then it's general knowledge. Then you are no longer blessed. My mother always said you are blessed. Being a visionary is a curse and a blessing. You're blessed to see other things that people can't see, but you're cursed to sit in them alone. I'm grateful for this deficit. I am grateful for this experience that we are having with Trump because now we know that America cares nothing about the black man and woman. I was speaking at a female reproductive summit, and I think I scared a couple people. But I told them the truth. I said, the first thing that you have to understand as a black woman is they don't want you to reproduce black kids anyway. So when you're wondering why we are dying at this rate, you got to first understand that you keep going to their hospitals, you keep going to their mothers and fathers, and when they don't want you to have black children in the first place. So until you admit that, and I know it's scary, I know it's hard to digest, but until we understand that if we don't come back and save us, no one will, ain't nobody coming out the sky. Because if the way that I think about Jesus is true, Jesus already came down and showed you what to do, what he, she, or it got to come back for, bro. That's the reason why I want to be a billionaire. Most people want to be a billionaire so they can live in abundance. I want to be a billionaire because I want to free the people, bro. I don't want nobody to have to go to Warner Brothers no more if they don't want to. I don't want kids to ever see a time where there's not a black Superman because they can come to a banner vision. And ain't it crazy speaking to Superman? How are you energized by the sun? And you're actually practically. No. You actually a battery incarnate. When white people, their skin does what to the sun, it rejects the sun. They run from the sun. How can Superman be white when his superpower is the sun? And y' all can't sit out in the sun five minutes without dad.
- [40:39]
Rashad Bilal
Deep thought there, bro.
- [40:41]
Troy Millings
No, no, Actually, a white scientist. I read an article white scientists did that. There's no way possible that Superman is.
- [40:46]
Rashad Bilal
White knowing what you know.
- [40:47]
Troy Millings
Yeah.
- [40:48]
Rashad Bilal
And what you study. We had this conversation with William. First thing we asked him was, how do you sleep knowing that all of this. But the other do you feel.
- [41:00]
Troy Millings
As.
- [41:00]
Rashad Bilal
A threat to the opposition.
- [41:03]
Troy Millings
All right, so I've grown spiritually where I don't hate anybody anymore. One thing that I realized is, first of all, you have to understand that these people came from Europe. They came from a cold climate where there's not many resources, there's not much time. You know, if you don't. If you don't plant at the right time in the right place and harvest and collect, it's cold. Seven. You're like, what, seven to eight, nine months.
- [41:39]
David Banner
So it's a scarcity mindset.
- [41:40]
Troy Millings
Yes. So, like, it's not just that. The fact that they're bigots or they're racist or survival on this planet, period. And they are the recessive gene. So I'm not emotional about it. So what I realized is. And be honest, guys, if it was a rattlesnake over there in that corner, and you wouldn't kiss that rattlesnake and a rattlesnake bit you in the mouth, would you be mad? No. Why not?
- [42:05]
David Banner
You asked for it.
- [42:06]
Troy Millings
Yeah.
- [42:06]
Rashad Bilal
Why would I be biting the rattlesnake?
- [42:08]
Troy Millings
They're rattlesnake. Yeah. Right. And historically, over and over again, you kiss a rattlesnake in the mouth, your ass gonna get bit. Right?
- [42:12]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah.
- [42:13]
Troy Millings
So historically, as black people, why we keep going over there by the rattlesnake?
- [42:17]
David Banner
That brings up a good point, because you're from Mississippi, so civil rights is different. We all have different struggles in America. Racism, no matter where you at, happens. But the history of the south is different from the history of the North. I was just watching the movie Till for the first time. Story of Emmett Till. If anybody hasn't seen it, should watch it. So being that you come from the south, right? You know Dr. Claude Anderson.
- [42:43]
Troy Millings
Yes.
- [42:43]
David Banner
So he brought up a good point where he was saying that he thought the civil rights movement was misguided because integration took out a lot of black businesses, and it gave us an illusion of inclusion.
- [42:58]
Troy Millings
Integration was worse than slavery.
- [43:01]
David Banner
Talk about that.
- [43:02]
Troy Millings
Okay, well, if you look at slavery for what it is, we just lost a war that we didn't know that we were in. I mean, that just happens. If you really look at it for what it is, it's just whether it would have been Native Americans, whether it would have been the Irish people, whoever it would have been. The reason why we ended up being who we were in the pecking order is because we survive and because we are children in the sun. Children of the sun, so we can last in the sun. We were more durable as Just human beings, period. Right? So the problem is that in the mechanism of slavery, if you have the chains on, you always know that you have to escape. Integration gave us the illusion of winning. It's the same way that I feel about the devil. People get mad at me because I say I don't believe the devil exists. I believe that white people gave you the devil so that you won't realize that you are the problem. If you always think it's something outside of yourself, you will never correct yourself. You always put it on an external entity. And if you really do believe in God, in one God, why would you ever compare anything to the most high? Why would you even have it in the same sentence, Right? You are the problem. We are our own problems in business and spirituality and everything. So for me, I just realized, bro, that this is so powerful. Watch this. Y' all gonna love this. What is the name of y' all company?
- [44:38]
Rashad Bilal
Earn your leisure.
- [44:39]
Troy Millings
Gotta fucking earn. Ain't coming from nowhere unless you earn it. You will never have the leisure that you are looking for. Hold on for a second. Let's pause.
- [44:50]
Rashad Bilal
This is a message brought to you.
- [44:51]
Troy Millings
By that was dope as fuck. I wish it. Y' all could have, like, the spinning numbers that be in the movies with some black and white shit, bro. I thought about that in my head and I was like, yo, that's dope as fuck.
- [45:02]
Rashad Bilal
This is a message brought to you by David Battered battle.
- [45:09]
Troy Millings
No, but I'm serious, though, bro. I thought of, like. I was thinking about, like, damn, that's dope. Like, we have to earn our leisure. We have to earn our freedom, bro. And the thing is, is, bro, the real truth is that we're going to have to suffer for a while. You know, if you think about most people that come to America, bro, like, they'll sleep 10, 12 to a house. One person that gets successful, he'll go buy a house, bring five people over there.
- [45:32]
David Banner
And it's not integration. We a few blocks away from Chinatown right now. There's no integration in Chinatown. You go to Chinatown, and it's only Mandarin that's spoken. And you go to, like, different parts. They've integrated in the greater society of America, but they're very intentional about maintaining. And they're not. They're unapologetic. It's crazy Indian culture. I went. We went to London. We stayed in the W Hotel in soho. Now, we didn't know that that was Chinatown. So the Uber driver was taking us there, and he was like, why are you staying in W? Like, It's a W. They're like, well, only Chinese people stay there. But the W is not a Chinese hotel. So I'm like, why? Well, he's like, well, the owner of that W is Chinese, so that's not even a Chinese brand. But they.
- [46:17]
Troy Millings
They.
- [46:18]
David Banner
When they come to London, they know where their people are, and they don't. They don't got to be told to do that. It's natural, right? So it's like, that's something that we can't wait to go away from everything.
- [46:30]
Troy Millings
It's like, I know some guys that are doing some work in Africa that's going to. I do my research, too. We're not gonna go there. This is a message brought to you. Yeah, I appreciate the research. Oh, no, bro.
- [46:46]
Rashad Bilal
I appreciate that. Yes.
- [46:47]
Troy Millings
No, no, I was actually doing some similar business, okay? And. And just. I was doing some similar business. And that's what I'm saying, bro. People are looking to help us. We just have to find them. We just have to travel, bro. And when you start traveling and looking, bro, I'm saying from a spiritual standpoint, you what they always say, like, you take a step to God. God take a. You know, eight, nine, ten to you.
- [47:13]
David Banner
But is that marketing to, like, even with the label, right? Is that marketing where we just feel. Is that white supremacy? Where we feel like if we get included in white power structure, that's the ultimate goal, so we'll run away from black inclusion.
- [47:29]
Troy Millings
So I'll tell you something, and I hope that by me giving you this example, it'll make it a little bit clearer. So have you all ever heard in football when they say that white quarterbacks are smarter? Okay, so white quarterbacks are not smarter. They just are not as physical as black people are. I think it was Bill Burr, he said it like, if you. If a white quarterback could jump over a linebacker, he would, but he can't. A white quarterback, like, as an animal, you're gonna run first, you're gonna jump first, you're gonna fight first. But if you can't run, you're gonna have to think so. I mean, it wasn't no need for Mike Vick to think about nothing. He would just outrun you. What animals. Do you understand what I'm saying? So I think what ends up happening is because white people are not as a whole. I'm not saying that there's not individuals as talented as we are. They have to think of mechanisms. I watch the NBA do it all the time since they can't play the game no more. Then they find a way to always change the rules. That's when the play in tournaments and all that kind of stuff. Cause they have to find a way to be involved in the game because they can't jump or coach the game. Yeah, but even now, we're getting close because there's no way that Mark Jackson is not coaching somewhere, bro. Come on. But for me, bro, I realized that that is all well and fine, because I truly believe this, bro. I believe that a very wise man from out of Philadelphia told me this, bro. He said that all these things that are happening are just to bring us closer to God. That's all. All this is for, is that if we would take the lesson and earn our leisure, then at the end of the day, bro, like, with all of this stuff going on with Trump, if we would take the message that people are not going to help us, we keep looking for dei. Like, why would you want to be around somebody that don't want to help you? I don't understand this, bro. Like, there's a restaurant in Atlanta that Tip and Ernestine, they boycotted. And I know for sure because my ex girlfriend spent $78,000 a year because when she didn't want to have meetings in her office, she would go there. I know the story. She told me as much money as she spent in there, how racist those people were. I have not been in that restaurant in 10 years. I'm never going back. When people show you who they are. If a company doesn't believe that DEI is the thing that they're supposed to do because it's the right thing to do, I don't want you to do it because somebody is pressuring you. That means that we shouldn't buy them. And the thing about it is, is whenever you remove your money and your attention, they'll get right. My opinion.
- [50:29]
Rashad Bilal
You brought up Big Crit and shout out to Big Crit. Historic run, man. Legendary. Felt like that was a pathway for him, and it's kind of been like a hiatus for him in music for the past few years. And you said something important. He barely intentionally did that and helped you. How so?
- [50:48]
Troy Millings
Big, Big Crit. When I was going through my depression, Big Crit was actually the person that told me, you know, to look at your environment sometimes in a spiritual way. It's the environment. Also the house that you in. You don't know who lived in it before. You don't know if it's the people that you brought into your house, if their spirits are still lingering, like it's all of these things that our grandmothers understood. And it's the things that I think they were trying to hint on in sinners that because of conventional religion. And one thing that I hate, I just gotta say this. And Jordan, I'm not gonna go too far into this, but, like, we always jump on these spiritual boats about what other religions do, but we have not like, really made people stand on what they did to us under the guise of the conventional religions that we believe in. In America, if you look at the continent of Africa, it's not chopped up because of who believed in what God. It's chopped up because of the oppressors who won. No. Won the wars in those places, in most cases, people were not Christian because they wanted to be Christian. It was Christians because they're Christian. Conquerors conquered that land or Muslim conquerors conquered that land if they're not believing in the indigenous religion of that land. And it really wasn't a religion, it was a way of life. If you look at most African people, you look at most native people, anywhere you go, they believe that God was in everything. And if you look at the indigenous Asian people, it was very similar to African people. You understand what I'm saying, bro? Like everywhere we go and so we get into these religious things, bro, and not understand how we are controlled, bro. I love the implications of sinners. And I understood what they meant by us tapping back into what our grandmothers believed in. You know, I don't mind, you know, you believing in the religion you believed in, but if you haven't tested it, if you haven't done the research, if you haven't translated because they've lied about everything on this planet, bro. And how. And how that transfers into business. I'll answer a question that you asked me earlier that I sort of got away from. I believe that the reason why black people continue to forgive people is because Jesus looked like them. If Jesus looked like us, maybe we would forgive us. Or the black bank that made one mistake. When the white bank make a thousand mistakes and you forget him every day.
- [53:30]
David Banner
Heinz ketchup make or the portrayal of Jesus, the white Jesus with blue eyes and blonde hair. One of the most dangerous things that's.
- [53:39]
Troy Millings
Ever happened, that's ever happened on this planet. I had a. I had a dude we were building out in front of. Of a store in Atlanta. And dude said something so powerful to me, bro, that it still shakes me to this day. He says that. He said that Jesus exist. Whether Jesus existed or not, the most powerful person on this planet Is Jesus. The most powerful book on this planet is the Bible. Whether it's right or wrong, we're not going to argue that. That's not my place. So if you believe that they hold the key to God, then you always gonna forgive them?
- [54:27]
David Banner
Yeah, no, for sure.
- [54:28]
Troy Millings
And you always gonna think they water.
- [54:30]
David Banner
Is wetter or you always gonna think that they're superior? Yeah, it's natural. Like, I read a book one time, this guy who's a refugee from this.
- [54:37]
Troy Millings
Hold on. Let me ask you a question about him real quick, bro. He says the coldest shit in the world, right? And doesn't break face ever. No, he's right, bro. I just saw your mama with the principal at the school. Deal with that information.
- [54:52]
David Banner
Deal with that information. Do what you want.
- [54:55]
Rashad Bilal
That's him.
- [54:55]
Troy Millings
But he just said the coldest and looked me in. Mine didn't break character. Usually when I say I'd be like that dope, that's it. He was like, no, no, they control your mind. You think they're superior.
- [55:05]
Rashad Bilal
Let's continue on.
- [55:08]
Troy Millings
5, 4, 3, 2.
- [55:11]
David Banner
No, but. So the guy was from the Sudan, and he had never saw a white person before, ever. And till he was like 10 years old. And then like a missionary, somebody from the un, So a white person came into his village, and he said when he saw him, the first per. The first thing that he thought of that. That he had died because he thought that this was God, Jesus. And the only reason why he thought that is because up until that point, the only portrait that he's ever seen of white people was Jesus, a white Jesus. So he automatically connected the first white person that he saw to God.
- [55:49]
Troy Millings
That's a bar and a half.
- [55:50]
David Banner
So imagine the grace that you're going to give somebody psychologically, right? The grace that you're going to give somebody psychologically if you think that they're God or the equivalent to God. And then imagine the disdain that you'll have for somebody who you think is the direct opposite of that.
- [56:04]
Troy Millings
And then the deeper part to that is, even when they're. When. Even though their book tells you his skin was like burnt copper hair, you know, like wool. Yeah, yeah. That sounds like a Rastafarian to me, bro. No, I'm dead serious.
- [56:22]
David Banner
But it also. It also shows you how. How powerful art is. That's what that is. It's art, right? That's a portrait of Cesar Bourgeois, son. And so the art is more important than the text because, like you said.
- [56:35]
Troy Millings
You could read the text. But.
- [56:36]
David Banner
But that visual painting overrides what's actually in the text.
- [56:43]
Troy Millings
So we play one. One word, gang. Just me and. Just me and you.
- [56:48]
David Banner
Let's do it.
- [56:48]
Troy Millings
The Council of Nicaea.
- [56:50]
David Banner
Yes.
- [56:50]
Troy Millings
I can't even have that conversation. Like, that's what I'm telling you about the stuff that I learned about, bro. I can't even have these conversations with my friend or with my mother, bro. Like, you just gotta sit on that, bro. And that's where your relationship with God is so important, man. Because, bro, my grandmother died thinking she was free. My grandmother actually died happy. And, bro, like, for me, man, I am so grateful that if nothing else, bro, is that I know. And I'm also grateful that people consider me. That's one thing that I can say about my relationship with hip hop that I don't know if anybody else in hip hop has. People at least consider me bro. I don't know why. I don't know what I've done to earn that, man. But I am so grateful to God, bro. I speak this in Christian churches in Mississippi and not get strung up. And black people be like, you might not let you come back here no more, but at least you get to walk out. But no, bro, somebody get Preach boy out of here. But I'm serious. Black people consider me bro. And I am so grateful, man, to. To be that, you know, I don't. I don't know what to do with it. Yeah, I try, bro, but, like, I'll tell y' all something, only because I'm enjoying this interview so much, bro, but, like, bro, it's hard on me, bro. I done lost over $12 million, bro.
- [58:18]
David Banner
Because of my activism, my opportunities.
- [58:21]
Troy Millings
Well, not just opportunities, bro, but you got to think, man, like, let's just be honest, bro. I get my money from Disney, bro. I get my money from PepsiCo, bro. Like, I'm just being honest with you. And like, black people for some reason think that money comes from some imaginary place. When you an activist, it don't, bro. If it don't come from you, it don't happen. That's why, again, I'm going to sing you all's praises, bro. You all found a way to galvanize the people and make them excited about spending money with other black people. That's powerful, G. That is powerful.
- [59:03]
Rashad Bilal
How have you responded when your faith's been tested, I think that's. That's when you really find out who you are spiritually, right? So, like, in the moments, especially dealing with the music industry and just dealing with life over the course of time, How. How has that been for you?
- [59:21]
Troy Millings
Okay, ask the question in a more direct way with one sentence, because this is very important. And I want to make sure that I answer it in the right way.
- [59:30]
Rashad Bilal
I'll say it like this. How about this? Have you always been this devout? Have you grown to it? And in times of questioning your faith or challenging your faith, how has that shaped who you are?
- [59:45]
Troy Millings
That's actually worse. No, but I got it. Um. Man, so the amazing thing to me about God is it's sort of like your dad, bro. Like, fathers, bro. Like, you think about the teachers that really loved you. Now that we grown, I had this new thing. You have to make a choice as a parent, and I'm not even a parent yet. Your children can like you when they young and not respect you when they grown. Cause they be like, that's some bullshit. You should have stayed on my ass like, or you cannot spare the ride. They said, spare the rod. Quicken the child to the grave. Right? So your kids cannot like you when they children and then respect you when they grown ups. I remember Benny the Butcher said that on my podcast. He said he went back to his hood and checked his OGs. Can I say nigga? Yeah. He was like, nigga, how y' all had us selling dope at 10? Y' all was supposed to be fathers, bro. How y' all let. Let us take those penitentiary chances at 14, bro?
- [60:49]
David Banner
What was their response?
- [60:50]
Troy Millings
I know he didn't tell me what the response was, but I thought that was so brave. He said he really went back and checked his OGs, bro. So what I'm saying is, is that since God loves us, sometimes I can equate my struggle to the amount of love and how much God trusts me with that mantle, bro. Or with that responsibility. Excuse me. So, like, what I'm learning now, and this is just my opinion, y', all, faith in God is not jumping off of the mountain because you can just be a fucking fool and jump off the mountain. The real test is you jumping off the mountain. God letting you fall face first on the concrete. And number one, you didn't understand that you survived number one, but waiting to see if you was going to curse his or her or its name and then give you wings to fly. That's what I'm learning. That real faith is not just jumping off the mountain. No. When stuff don't work your way, when you don't get it exactly when you want to, and then realize that when you. If you would have got it when you wanted to, you Would have wrecked it anyway.
- [61:55]
David Banner
Ready for it?
- [61:55]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah.
- [61:56]
Troy Millings
So when I am learning about it is to stop asking God why and ask God what?
- [62:03]
David Banner
Let me ask you.
- [62:03]
Rashad Bilal
That's, that's. I'll just. While you said it, I mean.
- [62:06]
Troy Millings
But did it click?
- [62:07]
Rashad Bilal
It clicked because it made me think of when Lupe says struggle, another sign that God loves you.
- [62:12]
Troy Millings
Oh, that's a bar.
- [62:14]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah, that's his bar.
- [62:15]
Troy Millings
Penitentiary. Yeah. That ain't just a bar. That's a whole penitentiary. You can build a penitentiary off that one.
- [62:20]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah, yeah.
- [62:21]
Troy Millings
You was about to say something.
- [62:22]
David Banner
Mental health.
- [62:24]
Troy Millings
Because you told I'm a wreck, dog. I know. I just said. I didn't want to say it. I'm a wreck, dog.
- [62:29]
David Banner
You spoke about, you know, work in progress.
- [62:32]
Rashad Bilal
Language is important.
- [62:34]
Troy Millings
I just wanted to let it go one time, bro.
- [62:36]
David Banner
Well, you spoke about. You spoke about, you know, depression. But there's a lot of people, especially men. Right. That are going through things that they, A, can't identify what it is.
- [62:46]
Troy Millings
Yeah.
- [62:47]
David Banner
And B, they're going through things and they don't know how to seek help.
- [62:51]
Troy Millings
Yeah.
- [62:52]
David Banner
So my question is, how did you identify you was in that place and how did you seek the help to get out of that place?
- [62:59]
Troy Millings
Well, one, truthfully, I'm not a wreck, man. I'm actually very proud of the man that I am, I'm becoming. And I am grateful also that the blessings that I did think that I wanted, bro, if I would have got them earlier, I would have messed it up, bro. Like, I honestly thinking, and I'm not just saying this because I'm on y' all show, I really believe this. I believe why should God bless me with the financial opulence that I believe that I deserve when I would have just gave it to them through not paying my taxes anyway? Like, some things we want, we not ready for them. Maybe God didn't bless us with him because he should knew that it would be a nightmare so that we have to be prepared to receive it, because if not, then you're just a conduit to bless your enemy because they just going to take it away from you from not being prepared, not being well read, not understanding accounting, not understanding taxes, all of these things. We want all of this money, bro, but we don't do the things to earn our leisure. Damn, that's dope. But what was the question more directly?
- [64:07]
David Banner
Like, how did you know you was depressed?
- [64:08]
Troy Millings
Okay.
- [64:08]
David Banner
And how did you seek help to get out of that depression?
- [64:11]
Troy Millings
So I found out from my. My therapist that sometimes not all the Time that your. The brain protects you from all the trauma that we've been through. And you wonder why, because this is one of the things that I tripped on. And I never said this in public either, but I'm having such a great time, bro. Y' all doing a great job, Bro, I was tripping because I was depressed. And I was like, bro, I've been in shootouts. I've been homeless and happy and all this stuff, bro. Like, why am I tripping now, bro? I got a Bentley outside. What am I tripping? Like, I'm dating models. And, bro, if I want to go to Japan right now, matter of fact, I knew a way if I wanted to go out of space, I couldn't afford to go out of space, literally. Maybe not 12 times, but I can go out of space one time. I got that kind of breathing right. But what I realized is that the human brain protected us until we got in a space where we could handle it. And then the brain was like, okay, now you got a little bit of bread. Deal with that. That happened to you when you were 9. Deal with your mama leaving you outside. You know, you being adopted. This didn't happen to me. But I'm just saying. Um. And so I. I just started getting to the point, man, where I think I had the mental space. When you in the streets, bro, like, we was in the streets, you didn't have no time to worry. Cause other stuff was happening daily all the time. You know what I'm saying?
- [65:38]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah.
- [65:39]
Troy Millings
And so I started realizing, man, that I was in the space I had the means to. And then the other side of this. I have talked about this in other places. I am realizing. And I'm not a therapist. So y' all go and talk to your therapist. Don't put this on David Banner. I also found that. That one of the things that we think is depression, that's not always depressing depression, is us breaking the programming. Like, bro, we have been lied to, not just by white people, not just by America, but by our parents, who was giving us the best stuff that they possibly could. But a lot of that stuff is lies, bro. And so a lot of times, bro, if you have been. And I talked about this today, movies and television are what television programming. We are being programmed every day. And this is one thing that as much knowledge itself, as much social and financial literacy that you all may be giving people, you can't beat FOX Network. Not yet. We on our way. But they're getting programmed. They're getting told by that Christopher Columbus Discovered America. That's a damn lie. So a lot of times, bro, we are breaking. It's actually what we feel is depression, is actually us healing the same way. I realize when I fast, a lot of the times when I think I need to go eat, it's actually the impurities coming out of my body. I don't need to put any more in there. I just need to wait for a minute. So I started realizing, man, that, you know, I had to break myself. I had to allow the most High to totally run his, her or its course with me, bro. And that I'm all right. And that you all are doing a good job, bro. Just for us to wake up every day and get at it again. Y' all doing a good job. You know what I'm saying, Sweetie, as much as you peek over here and look at me, because I do smell good and that I'm handsome. The fact that you can restrain yourself and not tote. No, I'm just joking. That might be somebody, girlfriend. I'm just joking. But no, like, we are surviving, man. And to be honest with you, bro, I don't know how I made it through. I had a assistant once. He told me, he said, david, if I knew for a fact that I could make it and all of my dreams could come true, but I had to go through what you went through. He said, I wouldn't do it, bro. I've been through it, dog. But I'm here, bro. Bro, I look better than I did when I was 27 years old, bro. I am stronger than I've ever been in my life, bro. I'm making so much money, dog. Like, it's coming to me, bro. And it's so crazy, bro, because a lot of people about finances and opulence and say that it's evil. It is not, bro. It is what you allow it to be. And, bro, when I started vibrating on the right level, getting around the right people, reading the right information, and I just want to say this. I don't know if you all disagree with me or not, but as I'm moving to that next level of life, most people who deal in money at the level that we're dealing with now, the people will never give you the secrets, the real secrets, to allow you to be their competition. They won't. If you look at most of the financial books, it's usually never written by the person that's on the COVID They will give you enough to be successful so you can take can continue reading their books and consuming their information. But the Real truth, bro. You gotta get around people that know stuff, or you gotta try and fail over and over again until you can piece the equation together, bro. That's what I'm learning, bro. You just. You gotta get out there and make them mistakes or go and find people, bro. I invested in a cold fusion company and my friends was like, what the fuck? What you know about cold fusion? Nothing. But that did buy me the opportunity to get into our generation's Einstein. I met that guy, the people that I was around. And I'll tell you all this, too. A lot of times, people will never tell you all this. When you're dealing with people who are in money at that level, they're usually going to try to make you do something, to sacrifice something to make sure that you're worthy of being around them, bro. It's like, dude told me, he was like, bro, you gotta get a ticket to Australia if you want this opportunity. And it's like a 14 day turnaround. I had never been to Australia before. I was straight out the hood, bro. I can't lie. I was scared. I ain't know nobody over there. But what made me do it was I had thrown that amount of money that they were asking for the initial investment, bro. I had thrown that in the club in Magic City in Atlanta. And, bro, show enough. As soon as I made that sacrifice, bro, they opened up. That's why I learned about the law of attraction. That's where I learned, bro. Like, them people, if you vibrate on the right level, you walk into, like, let's say if I brought you. They know how I. They know that I know how they are about the circle, right? And they'll come over there and they'll ask you. They'll be like, what you do for a living? You know, I own a company. They earn your leisure. We're trying to, you know, this is. That they'd be like, all right. Next thing you know, they hand you a phone and it'll be the CEO or the biggest company in the world. And what they told me is that they don't want it back from me. They get it back from the universe if you a right person. Like, they. The only thing they didn't like about me was my music. It's like, you gotta stop doing that music. It's negative. Like, we don't really do negative. But you so special. And they were the ones that taught me that. I came back to America and started doing my black friends the way that they taught me. Like, bro, if you writing a movie I got a house in Mississippi that I never go to, bro. Why don't you go down there and just go down there and write your movie? Here go my keys. The only thing I ask is whatever money that you was gonna pay to rent a car or whatever get at to this organization. That's the type of people that I started being around, bro. And when I started living that kind of life, bro, money and opportunity just came to me.
- [71:54]
David Banner
That's probably.
- [71:54]
Rashad Bilal
We gotta meet them.
- [71:56]
Troy Millings
Yeah. They ain't gonna meet that hard to meet. But let me tell you one other thing that they do that I think is dope, bro. They'll get together and we don't think like this. They all get together and be like, yo, let's. Let's go to Europe. They'd be like, bet. All right, man. What you would have paid for the w. Let's all put our money together and rent a castle. That's the kind of that. And it's genius. And in actuality, when you really look at it and put it together, the castle will probably end up being cheaper if it's 12 of us.
- [72:26]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah.
- [72:27]
Troy Millings
And they. When we balling in the castle, bro. Yeah. But we want to keep it to ourselves, and that's slavery.
- [72:34]
Rashad Bilal
Stunting is a habit.
- [72:35]
Troy Millings
Get like me.
- [72:37]
Rashad Bilal
Well, there is one book, okay, that kind of debunks what you just said. You Deserve to be Rich. Written by Troy Millings and Rashad below. New York Times bestseller, for the record.
- [72:48]
Troy Millings
Don't buy it.
- [72:50]
David Banner
For us by him, for sure.
- [72:52]
Troy Millings
But y' all the one that's doing it, though, so you all are the exception to the rule. And that's the only reason why I'm here.
- [72:58]
Rashad Bilal
It's love, my brother.
- [73:00]
David Banner
I appreciate you. David Banner, ladies and gentlemen, Always a pleasure. Every time we get to chop it up, man. We gotta speak more often, man.
- [73:07]
Troy Millings
Well, this is special. I can't wait to see this one. All right, Ask one more question before we leave. One more. Cause it's something that I'm missing. I feel like I'm missing.
- [73:17]
Rashad Bilal
Well, I was trying to get the crit story out. We kind of went around it.
- [73:22]
Troy Millings
We really didn't answer none of the questions.
- [73:25]
Rashad Bilal
And I brought it back up because we were having the conversation before we started, and I was like, stop. I want the people to hear that. Because it was important for a couple of reasons. Number one, brotherhood. But other one was introspection in retrospect. Like, I'm looking at this differently because a contemporary has showed me something I didn't know.
- [73:43]
Troy Millings
Well, Bro, I honestly think that Crit is one of the dopest artists on this planet. And I've told him this to his face so I can say it on camera. I had to tell Crit that you are a generational talent. You know, he reminds me of B.B. king. He reminds me of.
- [74:10]
Rashad Bilal
Of.
- [74:12]
Troy Millings
Just, bro, Just. Just them artists that take a minute, bro, you know, but they're gonna be here for the rest of their life. If Crit chose to rap at 80, I think he would be just fine, bro. And so I told Crit, man, like, you gotta stop competing, bro. You ain't gotta compete with them. They are not you. They'll have his moment. Think about all those artists that was so much more successful than me when I came out, but they couldn't give away an album. They would pay y' all to get on here and couldn't get on here, bro. And so that's the type of artist that Crit is. And so me and Crit talk a lot, bro. And Crit told me. He was like, I'll tell you the most important thing he told me. And I didn't even know that Crit thought about me this way. Crit was like, banner, no matter what you do, you are a threat to America. He said, whether you. He said, whether you were revolutionary or not, whether you spoke your mind or not, you are six foot two, articulate, thoughtful, black man. That's a problem, you know? And when I was going through my depression, Crit was the one that told me that I probably need to move out of my house. I probably would have still been in that house, depressed. He said, like, bro, like, it was a big house, bro. Like a big, beautiful house. And he was like, bro, you don't know what spirits are in there. And it may be the house. And I think he was right, because I went back to the house after I moved out of it, bro. This house is clearly some people's dream house, bro. It was in the North Georgia mountains, and it was on top of the mountain, bro. And I've never seen this nowhere in the world. I've gone in the morning, right at about 5, 30, 6 o', clock, when the sun hits the top of the mountains, the whole sky turns red dog. Like it's Mars or something. Such a beautiful house. And it just spiritually wasn't right. And Crit was like, bro, you may have to get out of that house. And I moved out of that house because of Crit. And between, you know, some of the stuff Crit said and my mentor and the stories I've told about Method man, bro. And I'd like to give a shout out to Styles P. That's P. I'd like to give a shout out to Jazzy Jeff. Jazzy Jeff brought me to his house, y'. All. I told him to his face, I ain't doing no fucking music. I ain't no artist no more. I'm a fucking actor. I ain't doing no verses. I ain't doing no beats. And he just looked at me and was like, yeah, I end up doing two verses a beat. But Jazzy told me something that was so dope. He said, banner music hasn't done anything but bless you. Now, the. The. The business of music is something.
- [76:56]
David Banner
Well, let me ask you this before I know you gotta go, but my last question is sinners. You talked about sinners. One of the underlying themes in that, to me at least, was that the music attracted the devil, and that's why his father didn't want him to play music. Do you think that the music, especially the music that we're listening to now, is a gateway to. To negativity, devil activity? Or like, you think that is a light for that?
- [77:23]
Troy Millings
But. No, but, bro, it wasn't. But see, that's the thing about. Wasn't the type of music he was doing, because if you look at the dance, when everybody came together, it was all types of music. It wasn't just rap music. It was the Native American music. It was all of these different types of music. So what it is is that, first of all, people forget if you think if the devil existed in the way that they say that it did, what was the devil in that movie? No, in general.
- [77:51]
David Banner
Oh, a fallen angel.
- [77:52]
Troy Millings
Angel of what?
- [77:53]
David Banner
Music?
- [77:54]
Troy Millings
Of music.
- [77:55]
David Banner
Exactly.
- [77:56]
Troy Millings
So that's.
- [77:56]
David Banner
Some people could say, like, that music is the.
- [77:58]
Troy Millings
So not that music. It's music in general. And the fact that in actuality, bro, I don't like saying this a lot, but I will only because you asked me, bro, if you go back and research music. Music was never meant for public consumption. Music was meant for spiritual, for communication during times of war. It was. It was spiritual. And I have a friend who actually is a chiropractor, and he can manipulate your bones by using certain frequencies. So what we got to understand, bro, we don't even know because we don't study, bro, the frequencies that we're dealing with a lot of times, bro, and what it actually does to the human body, right? So I think when it came to sinners, bro, it wasn't the type of music that we do. Because, honestly, we are at war, and this is war music. The problem that I have with music is music was supposed to represent the time that we in. Like, during the time when Bad Boy and stuff was out. We were the first generation in America in recent times that had disposable money. We was that first generation. Our parents got the jobs, but they really hadn't got the residual effects of that bread yet. So Bad Boy at the time was necessary. NWA saying, fuck the police. Nobody else had ever done that. We needed that at the time. But when you see it being commercialized and it being used by the same system that it was meant to fight and it became. And it was mechanized, I honestly think, and I don't say this much, that music is actually, bro, the right hand of the government now, bro. If you really think about it, bro, like, 90%, if you really look at it from. Because I know that you are men of numbers, right, bro? Niggas and bitches. Well, let's say niggas and bitches are probably. No, this is important. You heard all this stuff. No, seriously. Niggas and bitches are only about, at the most, 10 to 20% of our culture. Let's think about it. Seriously. Right, but we talk about that form of people 90% of the time.
- [80:17]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah.
- [80:18]
David Banner
Right.
- [80:18]
Troy Millings
You understand what I'm saying?
- [80:19]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah, yeah.
- [80:20]
Troy Millings
So the problem isn't that. It's the fact that it's being weaponized, and then the fact that people see that we can make money off of the weaponization of our music. They gonna go get the bread, bro.
- [80:36]
Rashad Bilal
That's what I saw. So when I saw Preacher, this is the specific scene when they're like, just give us him and we'll leave everybody else. Because he had the purest form of music, even though it was perceived as secular to his parents, it was the purest form.
- [80:50]
Troy Millings
Hold on one second. And Jordan, just so you know, they're not worried about me saying niggas and bitches. They worried about me saying crackers. So you ain't got to worry about it.
- [80:58]
Rashad Bilal
Who's that?
- [80:59]
Troy Millings
No, just. Oh, people in general.
- [81:01]
Rashad Bilal
Oh, okay, okay.
- [81:01]
Troy Millings
We call ourselves. Oh. Oh, yeah, yeah. You're not worried about that. So don't worry about it. When I said. And.
- [81:07]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah, which is why at the end, that scene where Michael B. Jordan is in the Coogee, right? And it was very intentional how he was styled. It was like, oh, they've got that. They've got it. They took it from us, right? Because the. He's I left him alone. He's still pure, but he's been dumbed down. Now to. Now he's just doing nightclubs. Right. Which isn't the most popular form, but the guy wearing the coogee, you can. Oh, wait, it's in hip hop.
- [81:32]
Troy Millings
Well, watch this. Where you. Where. I didn't see that, but I did see. What do you call it? The things in the movies where you give away the secrets. What do you call those? Come on, bro, help me. The little special things that's in movies. That's hitting Easter eggs. Easter. Yeah, the little Easter eggs.
- [81:52]
Rashad Bilal
Easter eggs.
- [81:53]
Troy Millings
Okay, bro, they said something that was so dope that I didn't realize, which makes your theory probably right. They said if you look in the mirror on that scene.
- [82:02]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah.
- [82:03]
Troy Millings
His reflection was gone, too.
- [82:05]
David Banner
Whose reflection?
- [82:07]
Troy Millings
Preacher boy.
- [82:08]
Rashad Bilal
Preacher boy?
- [82:08]
Troy Millings
Cause you remember it was him, the white girl and preacher boy. And they were sitting in front of the big long mirror in front of the bar. Right?
- [82:14]
David Banner
Yeah.
- [82:15]
Troy Millings
If you look, everybody's right. But what they say happened was that. You remember the scene after that we giving away the movie. But. But.
- [82:25]
Rashad Bilal
Go see it. But.
- [82:25]
Troy Millings
Yeah, but. But you remember when he was in the church? You saw that?
- [82:29]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah.
- [82:30]
Troy Millings
If you remember, he looked up and they were saying that it was a speed that was. It was a spirit in the sky. And that was when he gave his. His spirit away. But what I'm saying is, is that either way, what I'll tell you is that that same music that we're talking about can be what leads us to revolution.
- [82:51]
David Banner
Can be helpful.
- [82:52]
Rashad Bilal
Yeah.
- [82:52]
Troy Millings
It can be what leads somebody to God. That's all that they were saying. They want you so we can use your music for what we want to use it for.
- [83:00]
Rashad Bilal
Right.
- [83:01]
Troy Millings
And so it's powerful within itself. That's the same way that. And I'm glad that we can end it like this. I believe it's the same thing with money. Money ain't. Ain't. Is it negative. It's the spirit in which you put into it and how you get it. It's a frequency. It's a currency, you know, and you have to earn your leisure.
- [83:21]
Rashad Bilal
Amen.
- [83:21]
David Banner
That's it, ladies and gentlemen.
- [83:22]
Rashad Bilal
Amen.
- [83:24]
David Banner
Another legendary episode.
- [83:25]
Troy Millings
David. So proud of y', all, man. Thank you. Thank you.
- [83:29]
David Banner
Thank you guys for rocking with us. We'll see you next week. Peace.
- [83:31]
Rashad Bilal
Peace.
- [83:32]
Unknown
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Troy Millings
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