God’s Wealth Plan: The Financial Blueprint Every Family Needs w/ Lee Jenkins

Summary

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Earn Your Leisure: God’s Wealth Plan — The Financial Blueprint Every Family Needs w/ Lee Jenkins

Podcast: Earn Your Leisure
Hosts: Rashad Bilal & Troy Millings
Guest: Lee Allen Jenkins (Pastor, Former Stockbroker & NFL Player)
Date: May 14, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Rashad Bilal and Troy Millings welcome Lee Allen Jenkins—a pastor, financial expert, former NFL player, and former stockbroker—for a deep, practical, and spiritual conversation on wealth, stewardship, and the role of financial literacy within the church and Black communities. Jenkins draws on his 40-year career spanning Wall Street, ministry, and pro sports to break down how spiritual and financial principles have to work together for families and communities to build lasting wealth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Lee Jenkins’ Background and Journey (03:48–07:38)

• Jenkins started as a stockbroker in 1987, trained at the World Trade Center, then returned to Atlanta to build his financial career.
• Extensive experience: former NFL player, business manager for top gospel artists (The Winans, Kirk Franklin), and now leads a 4,000-member church near Atlanta.
• Jenkins integrates finance and ministry, viewing teaching about money as a calling:

  “Teaching people money is a ministry too, and Jesus did that a lot. Folks just don’t talk about it.” (05:24)

The Evolution of Financial Services & Black Wealth (07:38–14:36)

• Technology changed everything: real-time financial information and access, empowering average people.
• Early in his career, few Black professionals worked in finance (just 1% of brokers in 1987 were Black).
• Built a clientele in Atlanta among affluent African Americans, athletes, and later, a racially diverse segment.
• Addressed the challenge of Black athletes rarely working with Black advisors due to lack of representation and trust.

Lessons Learned Managing Wealth (18:33–23:11)

• Wealth is more about discipline and consistency than genius.
• Most wealthy people excel in a niche and possess rigor in their craft.
• Investment success came from knowing and investing in familiar companies (e.g., Home Depot, Coca-Cola, Delta Airlines) relevant to the local environment.

Bridging Faith and Finance (25:17–32:13)

• Many see faith and finances as incompatible; Jenkins strongly argues they are intertwined.
• Cites: “Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”

  “Money is spiritual because money... will test us like nothing else will.” (26:26, 32:11)

• Unhealthy church money talk: either extreme poverty (as a virtue) or prosperity preaching.

Critical Reflection on Prosperity and Poverty Theology (31:41–37:40)

• Jenkins rejects both prosperity gospel and poverty theology:
  • Prosperity gospel equates wealth with divine favor, which is misleading.
  • Poverty is not evidence of righteousness, nor is wealth an indicator of faith.
• Advocates instead for “stewardship theology”—grow and manage what you have diligently, referencing the biblical “parable of the talents.”

The Role of Money: Servant vs Master (38:08–43:19)

• Money should be a tool, not a master.

  “Money makes a great servant, but a terrible master.” (38:08)

• Money doesn’t change people, it magnifies what's already in their hearts.
• Integration of spiritual values and financial discipline is essential—view everything as a stewardship responsibility.

Church Finances—Transparency, Misconceptions, and Opportunity (47:24–58:29)

• Addresses criticisms about tithing and church finances—warns against manipulation but highlights the real operational costs of running a modern church.
• Points out that many pastors lack business or management backgrounds, causing inefficiency.
• Compares Black churches with Catholic and Mormon institutions, noting the lack of unified investment and management in Black churches despite being the largest Black-owned business collectively.
• Stresses the need for financial acumen and external expertise for churches to operate efficiently and have greater communal impact.

Biblical Principles for Family Finance (61:33–63:59)

• Budgeting: “Count the cost” before any financial commitment.
• Debt: Proverbs 22:7 warns debt is a form of slavery.
• Saving and Investing: Encourage generational wealth and estate planning—leave an inheritance for your children’s children.
• Every financial aspect has a biblical parallel.

Money, Marriage, and Family (64:05–68:30)

• Money conflict is a leading cause of divorce; couples must foster teamwork, share financial responsibility, and leverage complementary strengths.

  “Opposites attract when it comes to love, but opposites attack when it comes to money.” (66:25)

• Advocates blended responsibility and autonomy within marriage for financial management.

Scaling, Communication, and Teaching (68:32–73:53)

• Jenkins uses business and marketing acumen in ministry, focusing on practical, applicable teaching.
• Church growth comes from relevance and clarity—making faith and financial principles real for daily life.
• Jenkins now develops courses to teach pastors and congregants financial literacy from a biblical perspective.

Jenkins’ Four-Part Blueprint for Building Wealth (73:53–76:52)

1. Control Spending:
   “The more they make, the more they spend... compare yourself to others, and that can kill your finances.” (73:57)
2. Manage/Eliminate Debt:
   Use debt strategically but avoid enslavement.
3. Save & Invest:
   Build for the future and think generationally.
4. Practice Generosity:
   At least 10% of his income given away—keeps greed in check and maintains spiritual health.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Wealth:

  "Money makes a great servant, but a terrible master." — Lee Jenkins (38:08)

• On Church and Money:

  "Salvation is free, but ministry is expensive." — Lee Jenkins (29:21) "Poverty is not a virtue, and neither is being wealthy. Just because you're broke, busted, and disgusted doesn't mean you're close to God." — Lee Jenkins (32:21)

• On Giving and Selfishness:

  “One of the ways to stop loving money so much is to make sure that you're giving some of it away.” — Lee Jenkins (43:19)

• On Community Wealth:

  “We can't do anything about our history, but we can do something about our habits. So I'm trying to get people to change their habits so we can narrow the wealth gap.” — Lee Jenkins (83:17)

• On Black Church as Economic Force:

  “The black church collectively is a huge economic powerhouse ... we're not doing that [leveraging it], but some of that is because we're so divided ...” — Lee Jenkins (52:22)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Lee’s Background and Start in Finance — 03:38–07:38
• Evolution of Financial Services & Black Representation — 07:38–14:36
• Lessons from Managing Wealth — 18:33–23:11
• Integrating Faith and Wealth — 25:17–32:13
• Poverty, Prosperity, and Stewardship Theologies — 31:41–37:40
• The Problem with Making Money the Master — 38:08–43:19
• Church Financial Management, Transparency, & Opportunity — 47:24–58:29
• Biblical Financial Principles — 61:33–63:59
• Marriage and Money — 64:05–68:30
• Scaling Church, Communication, and Financial Ministry — 68:32–73:53
• The Wealth Blueprint (Spending, Debt, Saving, Giving) — 73:53–76:52
• Investing Philosophy and Future Plans — 76:55–80:43
• Narrowing the Black Wealth Gap via the Church — 80:55–83:17

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Final Thoughts

Lee Jenkins offers a rare, multidimensional perspective—fusing Wall Street rigor, faith-based stewardship, and a heart for empowering Black communities. He rejects harmful extremes in religious money talk and instead advocates practical, biblical financial literacy for individuals, families, and churches. The episode stands out for its actionable advice, memorable metaphors, and honest accounting of both spiritual and economic realities, spotlighting the transformative potential of pairing faith with disciplined financial habits.

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Find Lee Jenkins:

• Instagram/TikTok: @thestewardshipcoach
• Facebook: Lee Jenkins

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Transcript

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[Lee Allen Jenkins]

of the ways to stop loving money so much is to make sure that you're giving some of it away.

[Interviewer 1]

What are some biblical principles that can be directly related to teaching about financial finance?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

The more they make, the more they spend and that is the biggest mistake people make. Compare yourself to others and that can kill your finances. Number two, you got to control and or eliminate debt. Number three, you got to save and invest. I believe that has kept greed from taking over my life. I work with a lot of wealthy people and I am here to say that many of their lives were messed up.

[Interviewer 2]

Which one has been more Challenging. Teaching people about finance or teaching people in the church about the importance of

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

money and finance and the church, People don't want to admit they want to make money. As if that's something to be ashamed of. Just because you're broke, busted, and disgusted doesn't mean you're close to God. If you give, it'll come back to you and you'll be rich and God can make you a millionaire. Well, the recession took care of all that.

[Interviewer 1]

If somebody's not financially aligned, can that relationship even work?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

When it comes to love, Opposites attract, but opposites attack. When it comes to money, are you

[Interviewer 1]

really giving money to the poor, to the sick, to the needy, to the orphans?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

The men mission of the church is to. To save souls. Money will test us like nothing else will.

[Interviewer 1]

All right, guys. Welcome back. Eyl. Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Special episode. Special guest. We just talking to him off camera, man. A wealth of knowledge, man, might. Has been in the game for a very long period of time.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Going back over, what, 30 years?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, about 30 years, man. Well, actually, 40. 40. Yeah. Yeah, man. I started in the business in 1987, man. And as a stock broker.

[Interviewer 1]

Wow.

[Interviewer 2]

About to have the 40th anniversary.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, man. That's crazy. I can't believe I'm. I'm that old, man. But. But it's experience and it's a. It's a life lived that I've learned a lot from.

[Interviewer 2]

This might be our first interview with a actual former stock broker.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, man.

[Interviewer 2]

They don't really, you know, exist at the same way that they used to.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

That's exactly right. That's what they used to call us, too. Stock brokers. Not investment advisors or financial advis. Real stock brokers, man.

[Interviewer 2]

With the paper.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, man.

[Interviewer 1]

So Lee Allen Jenkins, pastor.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yes.

[Interviewer 1]

Former stockbroker, financial expert, former NFL player.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah. One year with the NFL.

[Interviewer 1]

Yes. So a lot of. A lot to talk about entertainment as well.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, Yeah. I. Before I became a stockbroker, I was the road manager and business manager for the Winans. For the Winans, man. The number one gospel group in the world.

[Interviewer 2]

I saw the bio, man.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah. Thank you, man. Thank you. You read it, man. And I've done some work with Kurt Franklin, too, man, over the years.

[Interviewer 2]

Great guest was Eyl Alum.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

That's my dude. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah. So Your church is 4,000 members outside of Atlanta.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Y.

[Interviewer 1]

Once again, you worked on Wall street for 25 years. Believe.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yes. Right. 25 years.

[Interviewer 1]

You were an athlete, and now you're online and. And you have a mix of ministry and Finance.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yes, I would say.

[Interviewer 1]

Right.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yes, I would call it. I mean, my. My priority is. Is the church. Obviously, I'm a pastor, but I definitely integrate financial teaching within my sermons. And I do a lot of stuff outside of the walls of the church to empower people financially. And one of the reasons I do that is because I believe that's a ministry. Just like teaching people the Bible, teaching people money is a ministry, too, and Jesus did that a lot. And folks just don't talk about it, which is one of the reasons people handle their money so poorly, because we aren't being educated about it in schools and our families or in the church. So one of my callings, guys, is to. To bring back not just Bible teaching in the church, but financial teaching from a biblical perspective.

[Interviewer 1]

All right, so we're going to definitely talk about that. That's interesting. But first and foremost, thank you for joining us.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Appreciate it. I'm honored to be here. I have admired you guys for years, man, and I've been at a lot of your events, man, just sitting in the back and. And learning from you guys and learning from all the great guests that you have. So, man, I'm just proud of what y' all are doing, how you all have, I call it democratized financial principles. You know, it used to be when I got into business, only stockbrokers, you know, and people talked about stocks, Regular, everyday folks, they didn't talk about it. It was almost like it was unreachable, some of these financial things. And, man, you guys have brought it to a level where no matter how sophisticated or how simple a person is, y' all help people to understand it. So I love that.

[Interviewer 2]

Appreciate that, man. That means a lot from somebody who's done it for 40 plus years.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Thank you, man. Thank you. And by the way, I was trained on Wall street, but I ended up going back to my hometown, Atlanta, Georgia. And that's where my career started in the investment business. But I started in New York at the World Trade center, did all my training right here in New York, man, cold calling people. And then once I've completed my training program for, after a couple of months, went back to Atlanta and started my career.

[Interviewer 1]

So how did. How did it change as far as the financial services industry from then? Actually, you know, trading stocks and having stock brokers and you haven't. You said cold calling people to. You know what it is now as far as the age of everything is digitized. And, you know, you have apps that anybody can trade on. You have apps like Robinhood, which Like little kids can trade stocks on and even complicated instruments like, you know, futures and stock options. So what have you seen that has changed from when you first came into the business to the landscape now?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Oh, my God, everything has changed. Number one, people depended on us, meaning stockbrokers. If you needed a quote there, you didn't have phones and so you had to call your stockbroker. My phone was ringing off the hook all day. Hey, what is Home Depot doing? What is IBM doing? The only time you could get a quote that was real time is you had to call me or stockbroker. And we were in front of our computer and we would give the client the quote or you would wait to the end of the day and you, you know, through different means, you could find out what it closed at or the next day in the newspaper when they were listed. So, number one, the information is real time and anybody has access to it, not just financial professionals. So the biggest thing is technology. Okay? The information is widespread. And then I would say, secondly is anybody can learn now some of the intricacies of how to invest. You know, you don't have to be some kind of financial genius now. And then thirdly, I would say people like you all, and me, content producers, people are learning. By the time they go to an investment advisor, they probably already have a basic idea of what they need to be doing with their money. So. So that's how it's changed, man. Mostly. Mostly technology. Oh, there is one more thing. Black people in general weren't talking about building wealth through the stock market in the late 80s. Now, I did have a lot of high level, affluent black clients. I'm just saying from a communication standpoint, okay, People weren't talking about it a whole lot. Most of the information was coming through white people and through the majority culture. We weren't talking about it.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah, it's been an evolution and we were talking about it. I want you to break it down for people who have taken this technology for granted, right? Like we go on our phones, like Charlie said, we can use E Trade or we can use TD or we can use Robinhood. We do it ourselves.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

That's right.

[Interviewer 2]

Take them through the process of. After I call you, what actually had to happen in order for that to be something that was a transaction that was made.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Okay, well, first of all, in order me to succeed, back in those days as a stockbroker, it was. Yeah, we did a lot of cold calling. Okay? That means they would. You would buy a list or you would get a list and you Just start hammering away about a bond or stock. Once you got a person to say, okay, they would have to fill out some paperwork, and a lot of that was done through the mail man. Or you go see them. So it would take a while, man. The stock could have gone up 10, 20% just during that time. But overall, you would. Once they get the account open, they would wire the money or bring a check. And then you would, you know, you would make the recommendation. And so you would have to put in the order. We used to call it, write the ticket. Okay.

[Interviewer 2]

Piece of paper.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

A piece of paper, and you write it with your ink pen. You fill it out. 100 shares, IBM. And then you. You put. Whether it's a limit order, a market order, and. And then you wrap it up and you walk over to a place in the office and you put it in a little tube and then you hit the button and it goes through this. This too, man. Like you do at some of the banks where you drive through and then the person gets it in the operations department and they put the order in. And that would take about three minutes or four minutes. So. And then they would send it back and let you know it's done. And you call the client and you say, Mr. Client or Ms. Client. You just bought 100 shares. Congratulations. And that's how it would go. And then I would get a commission.

[Interviewer 2]

And then you track it, right? Because there's no way for them to track it.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

No, they couldn't track it. But I had. On my desk, I had what was called a quote Tron. It was a computer. Okay. And it had all the stock we could put in the symbol, and it would show you what it was. So it would track all the stocks that we will follow and what the market was doing.

[Interviewer 1]

So you said, like, you know, there was not a lot of people talking about black wealth in that time, but there was black wealth as far as. Especially, like, you know, that's my thing. That's when Atlanta really started to kind of hit its stride.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yes.

[Interviewer 1]

And you have organizations or publications like Black Enterprise at that time. So when you. Because you also came from the NFL, so I'm assuming that you had some relationships with, like, some athletes potentially. When you started your career, who was your target market? Like, who did you. Who did you go after? Was it people in the entertainment? Was it entrepreneurs? Was it, like, politicians? Like, where did that black wealth that you were building your business book from come after? Or were you able to work with people that were not black?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, I work with a Lot of people who were not black. But when I first started in the business, I was 25 years old and I had to start somewhere. So my world was Atlanta, Georgia, which had a lot of affluent African Americans. Doctors, lawyers, politicians, entrepreneurs. And I had some relationships there, and I understood that world. Secondly, I came from the sports world and a lot of the athletes. In fact, I remember presenting my business plan to my branch manager. And I knew personally 42 NFL players at that time. 42 that I could pick up the phone now. How many did I get as clients? Maybe six or seven. Because some of them, they were young like me. They knew I was new to the business, and some of them felt uncomfortable doing business with a peer. Okay, but here's the real deal. Their agents and their other advisors

[Interviewer 2]

were.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Were white. Nothing's wrong with that. But there were very few black advisors. Stockbrokers, financial advisors, insurance people, sports agents handling and advising black athletes. At that time, 90 something percent of advisors, whether it's financial or legal, were white, managing these black athletes. So you get a guy like me coming up and I'm talking to him, trying to network. Believe it or not, there was a little resistance, but not because they didn't respect me. It's just I didn't look like what they had grown accustomed to. And that was people of color were not highly represented in the financial services industry at that time. Matter of fact, only 1% of stockbrokers in 1987 were black.

[Interviewer 2]

So the. The NFL journey is what year that was?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

1983 and 84. 84, yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

New York Giants, Bill Parcells.

[Interviewer 2]

Early, early years, right?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, man.

[Interviewer 2]

Belichick is there.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, Belichick was my defensive coordinator, man.

[Interviewer 1]

84.

[Interviewer 2]

They draft Lawrence Taylor?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Actually, it was before I came in. That was like 81. 81. 81, yeah, I came in. Lawrence Taylor was already there. Phil Sims, Harry Carson, Joe Morris. Joe Morris, Yeah, man. Those dudes. Ooh, man.

[Interviewer 2]

Not a Giants fan, but yeah.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Okay.

[Interviewer 2]

It's interesting because what you're speaking is, I mean, we can resonate with that because we grew up in a time watching athletes and watching who was representing them. I'm wondering, how did you switch career paths into finance at that time when there is no representation? Who did you look at as the role model or the mentor to say, I want to go down this path?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Well, when I was in college, I went to the University of Tennessee. And within my four years being at Tennessee, and I didn't come from money, okay. So I knew nothing about stocks and bonds growing up, but I Did minor in business administration. So I took some financial courses. But long story short, man, when you are considered an NFL prospect, you start getting bombarded by agents and, and people calling you. And so I happened to be a pretty good prospect. We, I saw at least 40 guys play in the NFL over. That came from Tennessee. Over my four year period, you know, it was like eight, nine, 10 guys a year making NFL. So a lot of these guys ended up making some big financial mistakes. Okay? Some of them whose careers didn't last long, they lost money or they made bad investments and I heard about it. So by the time I got to the NFL, you know, I would just hear stuff. And all of them weren't good stories, man, about how they. And then this was back during the time where tax, the federal tax rate, if you made over $50,000, your federal tax rate was 50%. And then the state taxes in New Jersey was like 8%. So the bottom line, everybody was looking for tax shelters. Back in the early 80s, that was a big deal. And most of them were scams. So I saw guys lose a lot of money. So when I got out, I said, I want to help guys who were like me, who didn't know much about money, who didn't grow up around money. So, so I pursued. My target market at that time was athletes, but I couldn't find enough of them that appreciated what I did. So then I just had to go to the general market and it actually took off better than what I thought. So my Clientele was probably 65% African American, 35% white, you know, Jewish and other.

[Interviewer 1]

So what have you learned from wealth management? Like wealthy people, what are some of the key things that they do that other people don't necessarily know or implement?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

I used to think that to be wealthy you had to be very smart. And I found out that many wealthy people, some of them are very smart, but they're usually average intelligence, maybe a little bit above average, Some of them are below. But what they do, what they're good in, they're good in. So they, they're consistent, they have discipline. So what I learned when I got into the investment business and I started managing millions of dollars for people is I said, man, this guy's just like me, or I'm sharper than him. You know, he just knows how to operate on somebody. He just knows how to run a car replay repair place. But he or she knows that very well. So what I learned is you do have to be good, but you don't have to know everything. But you got to be consistent and in whatever your niche is, you do have to know that niche and you got to be disciplined. And it takes time when you're going

[Interviewer 2]

to these clients and we always have this debate of when you're investing to invest in the things that you know or the things you're aware of. When we I asked you off camera, I'm like, well, what were you recommending? You said, I looked at the city

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

where I was from.

[Interviewer 2]

Earners.

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[Interviewer 2]

Talk about that and how that helped you gain clientele and paved your way to saying, hey, I'm making wealth for my clients.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah. So, you know, I always made good grades, but I wasn't some kind of financial genius. And when I was going through my training program, everybody who in my, my training program, they wanted to be some kind of financial guru, okay, come up with this unknown stock that just would go through the roof. And I said, I'm going to take a different, different angle. I'm going to just look at what people buy every day, okay? You know, what people wear, what kind of shoes they wear, what kind of clothes, what kind of sodas they drink. And then I'm going to look at companies that I understand and I know. So me, Atlanta, there was Coca Cola, all right, there was Home Depot, there was Delta Airlines, there's another company called Georgia Pacific, which they make toilet paper, a whole bunch of stuff. So I just got to know some of those companies very well and that's what I would recommend to my clients. But the biggest one was Home Depot because nobody had really heard of Home Depot. And the whole do it yourself market was just now getting popular or getting popular back then. And so that's what I would do, man. I would, I would pitch, I would call people. And then the second thing I would do is, would be tax free municipal bonds. Atlanta was growing like crazy. And what they would do is, you know, they were building things like they built this, the Georgia Dome, which is now the Mercedes Benz stadium. But prior to that, they had the Georgia Dome that was built by municipal bonds. Well, that's how the, the city raised money to pay for. So they had to go to investment firms to underwrite it. Well, stockbrokers had to call people to say, invest in this bond. So I was a stock guy and a bond guy, but I also did mutual funds and all of that. But I was really big on what I knew. So I Had to resist the temptation to try to be some kind of guru. But the companies. I knew.

[Interviewer 2]

I knew you knew Atlanta.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

I knew Atlanta.

[Interviewer 1]

So let's get into this conversation because this is something that's interesting. We have a lot of Christian viewers and people that are very into their faith, into their religion. So this whole aspect of finances in the church is something that is a very interesting topic. So the first question, what do you think causes people to struggle when it comes to aligning their faith and managing their finances?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, well, a lot of people don't think their faith in their finances belong in the same room. They don't believe they should be married and meaning the faith and finance. And that's the problem. We look at faith as being spiritual stuff. Going to church, praying, worshiping, however you worship, and that is important. We look at business and money as secular stuff that's non spiritual. And one of my missions, which I believe should be everybody's mission, is to integrate the two. Because money is not just about mathematics. Money is spiritual because money you. Jesus made a statement that was pretty profound. He said, where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. That just means that where you put your money are the things that your heart will gravitate toward. You don't put your money in stuff that you don't care about. If you don't invest in the stock market and the stock market goes down, you don't care because you don't have money there. But if you got money in the stock market and it goes down, your heart is there. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. That means you care about it. So there is a intimate correlation between our hearts and money. So the problem is people don't put the two together. They don't look at money as spiritual. And I'm saying it is spiritual. That makes sense.

[Interviewer 2]

I got you. I'm interested. You, you've worked in both worlds. I don't want to use the word difficult, but which one has been more challenging? Teaching people about finance from the standpoint of stocks, bonds, the market, or teaching people in the church about the importance of money and finance? Different challenges, similar challenges. What, what's your take?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Oh, man, it's a lot harder teaching people about money in the church. The thing that drove my business career is most people wanted to make money and they weren't ashamed to make money. And they were, let's just say. Yeah, yeah, they, they, they, they, they were very clear about their goal in the church. People don't want to admit they want to make money. As if that's something to be ashamed of. As if talking about money is ungodly.

[Interviewer 1]

Well, because. All right, you could, you could argue that, like people have been trained to think like that because it's like the meek shall inherit the earth.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

So the meek. To me, that means people that are not wealthy. Or it's like in. I forget the exact wording, but it's hard. Like the eye of the heart.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah. Hard for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Easier for a camel to go through the Ivan needle and rich man to get to heaven.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

And then it's like the love of money is the root of evil. So there's been a variety. There's a variety of different things. Right. Where if you hear that enough, then it's like, I don't. In order to be righteous, you have to be humble. In order to be humble, you have to have some level of. I don't want to say poverty, but you know, it's. Is some level of grounding.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

And not really. You make money, but that's not your primary focus.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

That's right. That's right.

[Interviewer 1]

So how do you, how do you combat that?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Okay, I'll make a statement. In business, the mission was to make money. The bottom line was profit. In ministry, it's to what we call make a disciple, meaning to change people's lives. Okay. But in order to do ministry, you got to have money. We like to say salvation is free, but ministry is expensive. In other words. Yes, the mission is to change people's lives, but in order to do that effectively, you need money. But the way money has been talked about has been very detrimental to people from a wealth building standpoint because we focus on many of the things that you talked about. We say money is the root of all evil. Well, it's the love of money. Okay. And then we talk about the, you know, it's hard for rich people to go to heaven. Okay. But right before that, Jesus was talking about this rich guy they called the rich young ruler. And this guy was. Money was his God. And, and, and Jesus said, look, man, give your money to the poor. Come and follow me. And the guy wouldn't do it and he went away sad. And then Jesus says, hard for people like that who were rich.

[Interviewer 2]

Can't have two masters.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

That's exactly right. You can't have two masters. So the issue, money is not the problem. It's. It's the priorities that's the problem. It's our values. If you have the right Values. If you have the right. How about this? If you have the right purpose for money, then it's nothing wrong with making money and growing money if you have the right motivation. So all throughout the Bible, there are some of the most incredible people that we read about were wealthy. Not all of them, but the people who were struggling are the people. We highlight the people who were wealthy. We don't highlight their wealth. Like Abraham and Solomon. Okay. And David. So the bottom line is it has not been talked about in a healthy, productive way. It has leaned more toward humility. Means you're broke, you're struggling.

[Interviewer 1]

What about prosperity preaching?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

That's the other extreme.

[Interviewer 1]

That's an extreme.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

So, yeah, no doubt.

[Interviewer 1]

Don't subscribe to that.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, okay. No, I don't.

[Interviewer 2]

Because it's two different things. Right? Yes, there's that side, but then there's the prosperity piece.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Right.

[Interviewer 2]

And I feel like what you're doing is like that gauge in the middle.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

That's right, Right.

[Interviewer 2]

Because even when you say struggle, like, we were just listening to music yesterday. It was like, struggle, another sign that God loves you. And I'm thinking to myself, yes, but then the person who's sitting there in that is like, well, look what they're doing over there.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

We look at this is sinful.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

Right. So, like, how do you. That's why I'm like, the. The challenge. What is the mindset of the people that you're trying to. To convert to disciples?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Well, poverty is not a virtue, and neither is being wealthy. Just because you're broke, busted, and disgusted and struggling doesn't mean you're close to God. You can be, but that doesn't make you close to God. Just because you are very wealthy doesn't mean you're far from God. Okay, so. But there have been two extremes. One is struggle is spiritual or prosperity. You know, name it and claim it. You know, driving the best car and living in the biggest house. If you do that, then you really got a lot of faith. That's what people have. Have preached.

[Interviewer 2]

I'm really blessed.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Oh, you're blessed. That's exactly right. That's a lie, too. But parts of both of those are true. But I say the poverty mentality is not healthy and it's not good. The prosperity theology, okay. Which means your material things determine your. Your value. That's not good. I like to say right in the middle of that is what I call the stewardship theology. And stewardship theology is just you manage what you have the best you can, and you're Always managing it for growth. And that comes from a. The parable of the talents. It's a, it's a parable in the Bible where, where three guys got some money, one of them hid it in the ground, and the other two multiplied what they have. When the master came back to check on him, he criticized the one who did not grow the money. He said, you should have put my money in the bank. The other two who grew their money, he commended them. Okay, so there is nothing wrong with growing your money. Stewardship is about taking what you have and multiplying it, getting better. Some people that means you're supposed to be in the millionaire category. Some people, you have the ability to make 10 million or a billion. But for some people, it's a hundred thousand. It doesn't make a difference. What makes a difference is doing the best with what you have and, and growing it. And that's, that's the standard.

[Interviewer 1]

So what, prosperity preaching. Let's talk about that for a minute. What is your viewpoint on what prosperity preaching really is? Because I said I hear different takes on it.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Like if, if I were to ask you, what is prosperity preaching? What. What would you say that. That is.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

I would say prosperity preaching is equating your health and your wealth to your spiritual depth. In other words, you are spiritual if you are wealthy and if you are healthy and you are not spiritual or you don't have enough faith if you are suffering in those areas.

[Interviewer 1]

So they're teaching that if you see a poor person, that's because they're not. They're not spiritually, right?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

That's right. Or they don't have enough faith.

[Interviewer 1]

They don't have enough faith. That's why they're in the situation.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

That's exactly right.

[Interviewer 1]

That's being taught.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

I don't think it's being taught to that extent, but I can tell you

[Interviewer 1]

what is, like, the underlying tone of it.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, that. That God doesn't bless you.

[Interviewer 1]

How your blessings is a direct correlation of your righteousness.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

That's right. Yeah. Your, your financial. If you're right with God, then you will experience unparalleled, uninterrupted prosperity. And a sign of that is what you drive, where you live, the clothes you have. God must be. You must have the favor of God because you got all this stuff, therefore you're healthy spiritually. No, you can be very unhealthy spiritually. In fact, I worked with a lot of wealthy people for 25 years, and I am here to say that many of their lives were messed Up. When I saw how much money they had, I was impressed and I was honored to be able to manage it. But when I saw their lives, I was not impressed. Not all of them, but many of them. So. So I don't think the prosperity theology is preached as much as it used to be. And I can tell you when it started to change for the better is during The Great Recession. 2008, 2009, 2010. Prior to that, preachers, that's all they were talking about. Not all of them, but many of them. You know, if you give, it'll come back to you and you'll be rich and God can make you a millionaire. Well, the recession took care of all that. Cause church folks got hit just as hard as everybody else. They lost their houses, they got, you know, they got floor closed on, they had to short sell it. So I don't think it's as prevalent as it used to be, but it is still a problem.

[Interviewer 2]

When you talked about looking inside of the accountants and seeing wealth, but being inside their homes and realizing that a lot of times in shambles, you think there was a point of confusion with who the master was.

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[Interviewer 2]

Was money now the master, not the tool. Was there a mixture there? And how. What are the signs that somebody should be looking for when it's like, okay, maybe I'm going down the same path of who, who is leading this?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, money makes a great servant, but a terrible master. And money will test us like nothing else will. It's easy to live a certain life of integrity when you don't have a lot of choices. When you're broke and struggling, you don't have the temptations that people have who have money. Because when you have money, you have choices, you have options. So when you have options, you can live out what's really in your heart. So I like to say money doesn't change people. What money does is magnifies what's already in our heart. It gives us a chance to live it out. Because when you're broke, you can't live it out. So I say all that to say that when you get money, you got to look at it as a tool to do something good with instead of something to use, to be selfish or to indulge in things that you really shouldn't be doing. So it's a perspective. It will test your values and it will really determine what your values are. So money is powerful. When I was in that in the NFL, a lot of the guys their rookie year, they had been dating their college sweetheart then they get drafted, they get a big bonus check and they have all this money and all of a sudden they're messing around with whatever, you know, anything that has a dress on. So the question is, did money change them? Well, I tell you what, money did. It gave them opportunities, okay? And they took advantage of some of those opportunities. Is that money's fault? Or was something already in their heart that they just didn't have an opportunity to live out when they were broke? So my point is money is a powerful tool. It can be used for good, it could be used for bad. And you gotta know that going in.

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[Interviewer 2]

Just to follow up, because you're saying, and I'm like, that's a message that a lot of people need to hear. Is there or what is the balance between being spiritually grounded and financially disciplined? Like, do they have to be equal? Do you. I feel like both things are needed, but how do we get to the point of balancing it?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Well, they're really equal, but I think what you have to do is to integrate your spiritual values with your financial strategy or how you see money. You got to start seeing money as. As again, as a tool. A tool to be used for good. Okay? There is a verse in the Bible said, what shall it profit a man if he gained the whole world and loses soul? Okay, now, losing your soul, that could mean various things, but I'm going to say losing your soul could mean losing your values, losing what's important to you, you losing, you know, the things that really matter in life. That's certainly one way to interpret that. So the way you manage both of them is you incorporate it. Like the way I look at money, and one of the things I teach, and I believe the Bible teaches this, is that everything we have belongs to God. That means we are a steward. That's why that word, stewardship, it means management. You're managing somebody else's assets. That's what I did as a stockbroker. It wasn't my money, it was their money. And if I didn't manage my client's money well, they would fire me. I look at what I earn, what I have responsibility for, the assets I have as God's money. And if I don't manage it well, he'll take it from me. And that's a mindset. We call it God owns it all, okay? And that way, you don't personalize what you have. You take care of it because you realize it could be taken away from you. So I think the first thing is to look at your money not as being yours. It is yours physically, but it is. It's God's money. It's God's blessings. God blessed you with the house, with the car, with the job. And when you look at it that way, it changes everything. Also, just because you have money doesn't mean you're always supposed to buy stuff. One of the greatest uses of money is generosity, giving a large portion of it away. So if you want to kill Self selfishness. One of the ways to kill that thing, which we all have in us, but one of the ways to stop loving money so much is to make sure that you're giving some of it away.

[Interviewer 1]

Let's talk about that, the ties aspect, because that's something that's a very hot conversation on social media. People think that a lot of people get taken advantage of by the church or different pastors when they'll say, okay, if you don't do this, then these are the consequences. You have to do it. And it's like you're giving away money that you might not necessarily have to the church. And my whole thing has always been like charity, I feel like, should be a variety of different aspects, not just one thing. So it's like, yes, you should give to the building to help that, because there are administrative core stuff like that. But if that's the only form of charity that you're giving, is that really charity? Because who is it really helping? Are you really giving money to the poor, to the sick, to the needy, to the orphans? Like, I don't know if, if the ecosystem is really designed for that money to be distributed to those type of people, or is it just staying inside of a building and helping? Like I said, there's nothing wrong with. Because every charity like the Red Cross, they have administrative costs that you have to pay. But if 100% of the money in the Red Cross is going to administrative, then what is the purpose of having the Red Cross? Yeah, that's how I look at it. What's your thoughts on that?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Every church is different. Every pastor is different. I think there are two issues going on when you talk about the church and money. I'll talk about the bad one first. The first one would be manipulation. Okay. There are different caricatures out there of pastors, especially black pastors, that I think are very unfair. But a lot of it strikes a nerve because a lot of it is true. The way we talk about money, how we're able or how we aren't able to really talk about it in a way that is positive. I mean, it's. It's almost like manipulating or scaring people into giving. That's the bad part.

[Interviewer 1]

Like the one he said, lock the doors.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, that tripty ball tonight. Close the door. That's right. Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

That's not a fair representation.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah, that was crazy. Yeah.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Well, a lot of pastors got to realize, man, now what you say and what you do, the whole world can see it.

[Interviewer 2]

Oh, yeah, it lives. It lives on forever.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

That's right. And some of that language is, is proprietary, it's internal, meaning that the people in that church, in that congregation, understand that vernacular because maybe they have been in a capital campaign or they doing a particular project. And so when the pastor talks, he's talking to his flock. They, they understand that. But you're not just talking to your flock anymore. You're talking to the whole world now, because the whole world can see it. So I'm very careful about what I say. I don't use that kind of language anyway. I'll tell you the kind of language I use. But. So the number one thing is. Yes. Most pastors aren't trained in business. They don't teach them about money in seminary or through their denominations. Therefore, they don't know how to talk

[Interviewer 1]

about it or how to manage a business.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Or how to manage a business.

[Interviewer 2]

It's, it's the idea of. And I'm just saying this because, like, growing up in church, you know, you go in there, it's the building fun.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

It's the thermometer that never moves every year, even though you're giving every Sunday. And people are just like, well, what's happening?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

Right. That's where you get those ideas from.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah. Most of that we, we see the negative. And I'm going to digress one second. There are negatives in every industry. Stockbrokers. When I was in the business for 25 years, every month somebody was getting arrested on Wall street for misappropriation of funds. Doctors get put in jail for malpractice. Lawyers get disbarred. We don't stop seeking legal advice because of what bad lawyers do. We don't stop going to the hospital because of what bad doctors do. We don't stop investing because of what bad financial advisors do. But when a preacher or pastor does something bad, says something bad, we look at the whole landscape of religion and church as being bad. And I think that's wrong.

[Interviewer 1]

Well, you brought up a good point. Not to cut you off, but I never really thought about, like, that as far as, like, management skills. And. Because if you look at the Catholic Church, they're one of the largest, if not the largest landholder in the world.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

They, they're a very efficient business.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yes.

[Interviewer 1]

Who the business is helping, I don't know. That could be debated. But they, they are, they're building, they're buying real estate. They have, they have a lot of holdings. The Mormon Church. They have a venture capital fund.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Over a billion dollars where they're deploying Money into different businesses and they black church, not so much. But the difference is that there's a hierarchy in the Mormon, in the Catholic church, the black churches.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

You know, it's every, every church is, is its own leadership. Right. And if you're, if you're running a church but you're not trained in business yourself and you're not trained in management yourself, you don't know, manage the money, deploy the capital, that's a whole arm within itself. Right. So would it be more beneficial to have kind of a unified front? I don't think that's ever going to happen. But like theoretically. Right. If everybody's under one umbrella and now the black church can deploy $100 million because the black church is the big, is the biggest black business in America.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Exactly right.

[Interviewer 1]

It's the biggest black. They own the most real estate, they have the most funds coming in. Like if you really think about it, they're the biggest black owned business in America. If you aggregate all the, all the churches.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

That's right.

[Interviewer 1]

So if there was a united front, that's an economic engine to actually help in a variety of different things. And it doesn't even necessarily have to be just charity. It could be a functioning business model. But that's millions of dollars that can be deployed into black community on real estate and business level. But it has to be some level of organization obviously to do it.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yes.

[Interviewer 1]

So how do you feel about that?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

All right. Well, there are a couple of things you just brought up. Number one, the mission of the church. The number one mission is to save souls. It's people's spiritual life. And I think sometimes we look at the church as, oh, we ought to be doing this, ought to be doing that. And some of that is true. But we can't get away from the number one mission and that is transforming people's lives spiritually. Okay. Now there are some other things we can be doing. The economic empowerment piece. Well, in order to do that effectively, the pastor and, or some of the leaders and, or the board need to have some financial acumen and many of them don't. Some churches do. It depends on a lot. It depends on what city you're in. It depends on, you know, who you're seeking advice from. But they don't teach it. I'm just saying. So to put that on a pastor and a board, that might be too much. So what needs to happen is we need to have people like me and others to teach churches how to handle the business side of the church. Because you're Right. The black church collectively is a huge economic powerhouse, and we can train people and we can buy land and we can do real estate, and we can. We can do a whole lot. And. And we're not doing that. But some of that is because we're so divided, you know, by denomination and by theology and all that. So I don't think it's ever gonna. Everybody's gonna be together. But. But. But let me say this. There. There is a lot of. There are a lot of things that are manipulative that aren't done right. But then there's a lot of misunderstanding. And I'm going to say most of how. Most of how people look at the church's misunderstanding. For instance, we look at a church as just being a church. We go there and we hear a nice song and we hear a nice message, and people don't even think about the microphone that that person is preaching on. That's just that little thing you're holding that I hold on Sundays cost $2,000 if it. Now, a lot of that depends on how many people you're speaking to. You can't speak to 2,000 people with a cheap microphone. You can't have seven or eight singers, okay, up on a stage, okay. Or choir, okay. With cheap microphones and a cheap infrastructure. You can't have quality musicians on a guitar, a bass guitar, a drum and a keyboard, okay. Who don't know what they're doing, and they're going to charge you for it, because that's how they make their living.

[Interviewer 2]

I think what you're saying is important because I didn't realize it going. I guess the thing is, like, for clear understanding, like, what is the business of church? Like, what are those costs? Obviously, equipment, obviously, for the talent that's going to be on stage. Some people may say the building, the electricity, break down, all those things.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

So people know, oh, my God, it's so much. And it's different for every church.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

But let's start with what you experience right away, and that is going to a building or land that costs a lot. The banks don't give a church a special deal. You don't get a special interest rate. When you purchase land and you get a loan, you got to do what everybody else does. You have a mortgage until you pay it off. Okay, well, the money to pay for that has to come from the charitable giving of people. We don't make a product per se as a pastor, as a church. So people have to give. Okay. All right. So, number one, it's a It's a pretty risky venture when you think about seating a church. Yeah. I tell people if you are in traditional business. Okay, walk with me on this. You're in traditional business and you mess around on your wife, you're the CEO, and somebody catches you out with another woman. I'm not saying that could not affect your business. It might and it might not. But depending on how quality the quality of that product is, it probably won't. If you get a divorce and you're CEO of a major business, if you're a pastor and they catch you out with another woman and that whatever you were doing leads to a divorce, half of the people leave your church and all of it. And when half of them leave, half of that income goes down. So it's risky because there are things that can affect a church that won't affect the business. And when they get affected, affects the money. So back to your question. You got real estate, you have staffing. The people who work behind the scenes, they have to spend a lot of time. And by the way, the bigger that the church gets, the more staffing you need. And they have to get paid too. They have families, they could be out working in the regular marketplace. So to get them to come and work in the church, you know, most churches don't pay a market rate, but you got to get close to it. So you got staffing, you got real estate, you have music, you have infrastructure, you have audio, visual lighting, you got to take care of children, which you have to follow all the rules that a basic nursery or commercial nursery would have to have. In terms of ratios of teachers, some of those people have to be paid. It's a lot of stuff. Okay. It's just like running a regular business from an expense standpoint only is riskier because you're depending on the charitable giving of people.

[Interviewer 2]

Congregation.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, the congregation. So I'm saying my point is, is it's a major financial undertaking and the bigger you get. We started. I started the church 14 years ago with 20 people. We're 4,000 members now. And. And a lot more people are coming and a lot more money comes in, but the expenses are. It blows my mind sometimes how much it takes.

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[Lee Allen Jenkins]

see my co worker in line at the pharmacy. Can you tell I'm picking up prescription hemorrhoid cream? I'm probably standing weird. Why is he smiling? He knows he's gonna call me Hemroyd Lloyd tomorrow. I know it. I gotta quit my job.

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[Interviewer 2]

network

[Interviewer 1]

so what are some biblical principles when it comes to finance? I know like you talk about good man leaves an inheritance. So that's like estate planning, life insurance. You can kind of talk about, you know, a will, a trust. What are some like biblical principles that can be directly related to now teaching about finance?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Okay, I'll start with spending. There's a scripture in Luke it said anyone who goes to build a house, you must first count the cost to see whether or not you have enough money to do it. Okay then there's another scripture in in Proverbs it says a wise person doesn't spend everything they have. Foolish people do that. So the first thing is the Bible talks a lot about how you need to make sure that you have some financial discipline and that you count the cost. You don't go build a tower. That's what it says in the word. They call it a tower, but it's also. You could call it a house or whatever the project is. You don't build a tower without first counting the cost to see whether or not you have enough money. That's budgeting, okay? Then you move from budgeting to debt. Proverbs 22:7 says the rich rule over the poor and a borrower is a slave or servant to the lender. So the Bible calls debt slavery. Now, it doesn't say it's wrong. It just says when you are in debt, okay, you are obligated to somebody else. You don't own all the money that you have because some of that money belongs to the mortgage company or whatever. I'm not saying anything is wrong with that. It's just tantamount to slavery. There are aspects of it. Until you pay it off, that's when you're free. So the Bible does warn us against debt. Against debt. Now, all debt is not bad, but you got to be very careful, okay? There is a such thing as strategic debt. Then the Bible talks about saving, okay? The Bible talks about estate planning. Good man leaves an inheritance. Inheritance to his children's children. It talks about really every financial aspect there is. There is a verse in the Bible or a principle that. That we can follow.

[Interviewer 2]

Let's talk about something that you're a veteran in. Obviously. Finance, for sure. Entertainment, for sure. Marriage.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

Finance, spirituality.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah. I've been married for 38 years to an incredible woman, and we do a lot of teaching on how to manage money within marriage.

[Interviewer 2]

I'm writing my notes now, man.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

It's no joke, because statistics say that one of the primary causes of divorce is money. How couples have a difficult time coming into agreement or how it just causes some major issues within marriage and couples can't get on the same page. So what I tell people and what my wife and I teach is, number one, you got to be a team. You. You don't bring in two single mindsets into a marriage covenant. All of a sudden, it's not my money, it's our money. And. And that's the mindset. Now, should a married couple have some financial autonomy? Absolutely. And everybody's marri. A little different, but overall, your team. And one of the primary ways to determine whether you're really a team is whether you share your money, whether you work with money together instead of individually. So we teach couples how to integrate their Finances with some autonomy. But how to do that together and two are better than one. When couples get on the same page, man, they can make more money, they can build wealth faster, But a lot of them never get on the same page.

[Interviewer 1]

So how do you get on the same page if. If you have somebody that might not fully like. There's a lot of times, because I used to be a financial advisor, and a lot of times the, the wife might come in and the husband would just send the wife because they. And the wife would be like, well, he's not really into finances. He doesn't really. Or even vice versa sometimes. But a lot of times it was the woman that was more like on it.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

And the husband was. So if somebody's not financially aligned. Yeah. Can that relationship even work?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer 1]

How can you get them aligned?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Well, first of all, when I believe when God brings two people together, it brings them together to complement each other. And when you compliment, just like the two of you all, you all are very similar as business partners, as friends, but you all are very different too. And. But your differences complement each other. That's the beauty of a great partnership. So usually in a marriage, you'll have one spender and one saver. You have a person that might lean more toward risk and a person that's a little bit more conservative. And when you blend those two together, you really help each other. My wife was more of a spender, I was the saver. I had to learn how to loosen up, she had to learn how to tighten up. So what I'm saying is, when you come in, being a team doesn't mean you think the same, doesn't mean you have the same talents. It just means you appreciate what each other bring to the table. However, on the day to day basis, the best person who has the most time and expertise needs to be the primary manager of the money. And sometimes that's the wife, sometimes that's the husband. In my marriage over 38 years, it's been me some seasons, it's been my wife some seasons. It depends on how busy we were. But now she handles the day to day stuff. Of course, a lot of our stuff is done online. You know, it's automatic, so it's a lot easier. So I guess what I want to say, man, is you don't have to be the same to make it work. And those differences, you know, they say differences, what do you say? Attract? Sometimes, you know, opposites, Opposites. Opposites attract when it comes to love, but opposites attack when it comes to Money. But I'm saying opposites really should attract when it comes to money, because those skills that you have that are different can work together there. But it's tough.

[Interviewer 2]

Amen.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

It's tough.

[Interviewer 2]

You said you went from 20 to 4,000.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

I think the message that you have, obviously, around spirituality and finance is vitally important. How are we getting more people? Right, because you've figured out the how to scale. How are we getting more people to get back in the church to hear messages like this?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah. Well, the thing about teaching and preaching the word of God, which I believe is the Bible, and of course, you know, for the Christian faith, it is. You got to make it real to people. People ought to be able to come to church and learn about the Bible. But that's not all. You got to learn how to apply what you learn, how to take it home, how to take it to your job, how to take it to whatever your career is and be able to apply it. It. So one of the things that I think helped me and. And this is just the grace of God, because I did not know that my business career was going to be a huge advantage for me as a pastor. In fact, when I felt the call out of the traditional business world to start a church, it was the first time in my life where I felt very insecure.

[Public Service Announcement Voice]

Lord.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

And here's the deal. I say, lord, if I know I was going to end up pastoring, I would have gone and got my doctorate in theology. I would have gone and got my masters and this and that. You know, I played football, and I was a stockbroker for 25 years, and now I'm going to be a pastor. I did not think that my background had anything to do with what God was calling me to do, and it had everything to do with it. So I have a gift of being able to look at the Bible and people tell me I have this gift and be able to explain it in a way where people can, number one, understand it and people, number two, can apply it. And I'm not a very deep thinker, but I'm a very practical thinker, and I think that's because I came from the business world world. You can't be deep talking to somebody about stocks and bonds. You got to break that thing down where they can understand it because they're getting ready to invest their money. So I was used to talking about things and helping people understand it. Number two, a person asked me a question, and they said, how in the world do you go from being a stockbroker to being a preacher. Those two are opposites. I said not really from a skill standpoint. First of all, in business I was in, I had to market. Well, we market as a church, whether it's through social media, whether it's. We can call it evangelism, we can call it outreach, you can call it whatever you want to call it. It's marketing. Okay, then I'm in sales because when I'm behind the pulpit, we have to sell people on following Jesus or whoever, whatever religion you in. We don't want to call it sales, but if you don't make a great presentation, then you're not going to convince and be able to lead people. That sales. When you share your conviction with somebody else and hope they will follow that and agree with it that sales. I came from a sales background, so that helped me fundraising. You can't do ministry without raising money. I was very accustomed to asking people to invest and that's the kind of language I use. At our church. We have a lot of high level business people and so I don't use a lot of spiritual language. I call it investing. When you give, you're investing in people's lives, you're investing for eternity. Things that can impact people, you know, for, for throughout eternity. And then you have operations. You know, when I was an investment advisor, we, we, there was a whole system like, you know that you have to have a team. Well, I have a staff. I have to have different departments that I'm over. And then customer service. When I was a stockbroker, I had to check in with my clients, make sure they're all right. The market goes down, have to call them and explain to them, make sure I'm pastoring them. That's all that was. I was a pastor for my clients and didn't even know it. Okay. So when I became a pastor, I drew on those skills that I have from business and it helped me tremendously. So that's how I believe God blessed us is number one. It was just the grace of God. You can have all the skills in the world and if God doesn't breathe on that thing, it ain't going anywhere. But I believe God breathed on it, he blessed it and then I was able to use skills that I had from the business world. And I believe that's one of the reasons we were able to scale pretty quickly.

[Interviewer 1]

If you had to give people three step blueprint to build wealth today, what would it be?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Number one is control your spending. Everything starts with lifestyle and spending and that is the Biggest mistake people make, the more they make, the more they spend. And with Instagram and TikTok and all of that, I think it is more of a temptation to keep up with the Joneses is what we used to call it back in the day. But to basically to compare yourself to others. And that can kill your finances. So I don't care where you are, you got to start with spending. Number two, you got to control and. Or eliminate debt. And if you use debt, you need to use it strategically. And then number three, you got to save and invest. That means you got to have an eye toward the future. You can't consume everything you have. You have to think generationally. And historically, because black people couldn't build wealth, we didn't have the opportunities that Everybody else had 50, 60, 70, 80, 100 years ago, but we do now in many respects, we still do get shut out of some industries, but it is imperative now that we think generationally. And that is a biblical principle. So I would say spending, debt management, investing. And if I had to throw one more in there, I would say generosity. I would say giving, because it's something about giving that helps you from being. Keeps you rather from being selfish. When you make a million dollars, you make 500,000, you make a hundred, you make 50,000 a year. And you know, there is a portion of that. And you could spend all of it if you wanted to, and you could save all of it for your future. And nothing is wrong with spending and saving, but you take a portion of that. And what I have done for my God, almost 40 years is I have given at least 10% of my income to God's work, mostly through the church, but even through other organizations, either through the church, through other ministries, through other nonprofits, or to just help people who need my help. And I believe that has kept me from. Can I say it like this? I believe that has kept greed from taking over my life because I'm like everybody else. I like money. And I could have. I could have a lot of ways to spend money. And it's something about giving a large portion of it away that keeps me grounded. So those are the four things. Spending, debt, saving, and giving.

[Interviewer 2]

I wonder now. Well, amen to that.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Thank you.

[Interviewer 2]

I wonder now, you know, do you still invest in the market?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

I do.

[Interviewer 2]

I wonder of this century, what, what has been the. The. The best investment you've made, and one that was maybe a miss 2000 on

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

man, that's a great question. I invest mostly now in ETFs, some mutual funds, I don't have the time now to pick a lot of individual stocks, but I have some individual stocks. So remember, I'm old enough to remember when the Internet came out.

[Interviewer 2]

The Internet?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah, it was the intranet at first, then it was the Internet, and I remember some stocks that came out and I didn't understand the Internet, and I put a little money in it and I made some money, and I mean, I wish that put everything I had in it. So I think what people have to do is look at what's going on in the world today. So I am heavily into technology, especially companies that will benefit from AI. Okay. So those are some stocks that I have, but most of my individual stocks are just the blue chippers. Okay. You know, if I had to name names or same names that most people talk about, you know, Apple Computer and Microsoft and Amazon and. And, you know, and then of course, I do some of the other AI stocks. What's the big one in Nvidia? Yeah. And so, but I do mostly ETFs and, and some mutual funds, and I kind of sprinkle some individual holdings in that, but I'm heavy in the. In the stock market.

[Interviewer 1]

What's next for you? Like, what are you working on with the. With your church and then your online presence and like, what's. What's next?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Well, about a year and a half ago, I started on Instagram, the stewardship coach. And I wanted to see what the world be interested in learning about money, all the things that you all talk about. And I've learned a lot from you guys, but I want to see would the world be interested in learning about money from a biblical slash spiritual perspective? So I took a chance. I went on Instagram and I give these two to three minute vignettes in different financial subjects. And I incorporate the Bible and it took off between TikTok and Instagram. I have over 500,000 followers who just come to my platform to hear me talk about that subject, money from a biblical perspective. So I'm getting ready to launch some courses, some communities, but my biggest mission right now is to get the church at large to learn how to teach finances to their congregants. So I am getting ready to start a training program for pastors and church leaders to teach them, first of all, how to handle their own money and then. And then to train them on how to do a better job of talking about money within a church context and to train people how to handle money from a biblical perspective. So that's what's next for me. It was football, it was the investment business. A little bit of the entertainment business is pastoring a church. And now it's teaching people how to manage money from God's perspective while I am pastoring. And one day, you know, next five, seven years or so, I will probably be passing the baton to another pastor at my church, but I will still be involved in ministry.

[Interviewer 2]

Do you have, when you say, obviously we talked about the black church being the biggest business in our community, that mission that you're saying that is the future for you, do you have the wealth gap in mind?

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Oh, my God.

[Interviewer 2]

When you're shooting for this? Because it feels like if we get enough people from the largest business with that mindset, this is how we can potentially chip away at it a little bit.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

Yeah. So I want to go back to something you asked me. Well, you didn't really ask it, but kind of, in a way, when we talk about money in church and. And asking people to give, I've done some comparisons, and many of my white contemporaries who are pastors of large churches, they're giving is huge. Okay. And when they do a capital campaign, they have people writing million dollar checks easily. Well, when a black church does that, and I'm generalizing here, and black people are very generous. In fact, there have been studies done that we are more generous. Okay. But we don't have the wealth to pull from like many of our white siblings. Okay. So. And again, I'm generalizing here, but I'm. This is real information. A lot of my white friends who are pastors, they tell me, lee, we just did a capital campaign. We just had a guy to give us $5 million. And I said, well, what does he do? Well, he. He does this business, but his family had money and it was inherited and this and that. And so the bottom line, there's generational wealth there. There are not a lot of families like that sitting in churches that are black churches. There are some. And then many of the people who do have that kind of wealth who are sitting in black churches, they're first generation wealth. Okay? So the wealth gap has not only affected black people, it's affected churches. Every aspect of the black community has been affected by the wealth gap because the median wealth of a White family is 10 times more than the median wealth of a black family. And that affects everything we do in the black culture. So we can't do anything about our history, but we can do something about our habits. So I'm trying to get people to change their habits so we can narrow the wealth gap, it won't ever be closed because they had hundreds of years head start. I mean, really, when you think about it, you all. The last major piece of legislation that affected black people collectively, major, major piece was the 1968 Fair Housing Act. You know, you had the Civil Rights act voting right, that act, 1968, what was that, 60 years ago? Almost. Okay, that means you could live anywhere. You could buy real estate. You know, you can participate in home ownership and all that. Because we were relegated to black areas and those areas did not appreciate. Okay, but after the Fair Housing act, even though it took a long time because he had redlining and all of that. But the bottom line is, my point is we didn't really get out of the starting blocks economically and be able to run freely to less, a little bit less than 60 years ago when other ethnic groups, from a opportunity standpoint, had a hundred, two hundred year head start. So the wealth gap is huge. I'm doing my best to try to narrow it through teaching people through what I believe the greatest institution in black America is, and that is the black church. Church.

[Interviewer 1]

Well, appreciate it, my brother. Tell him your social media handles and everything.

[Lee Allen Jenkins]

It's at the stewardship coach. At the stewardship coach on Instagram and Tik Tok and. Or you could just Len Jenkins or Lee Jenkins on Facebook. You'll. You'll find me there.

[Interviewer 1]

All right, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. We'll see you guys next week. Peace.

[Interviewer 2]

Peace.

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