← Earn Your Leisure
Earn Your Leisure
He Built Africa’s Tallest Statue — Now He’s Revealing the Future of the Continent 🌍
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host
Uh, hello, Is this Pacific Source Health Plans?
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African Architect / Expert
This is a health plan.
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Podcast Host
I'm trying to reach Pacific Source. I know I'll get a person on the phone when I call them.
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African Architect / Expert
What do you think I am?
- [00:10]
Podcast Host
I mean, you sound like a person.
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African Architect / Expert
That's what counts.
- [00:13]
Podcast Host
Automated systems can do a lot, even sound a lot like people.
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African Architect / Expert
What automated systems can't do is offer the quality our members rely. Empathy.
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Podcast Host
When you call Pacific Source Health Plans, you'll talk to a person who cares. What did you say your name was?
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African Architect / Expert
Nexa 9000. Hmm.
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Podcast Advertiser / Hunter
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Podcast Host
The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.
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African Architect / Expert
America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.
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Podcast Host
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Interviewer / Journalist
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Podcast Host
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Podcast Advertiser / Hunter
I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Join me every weekday as I share bite sized stories of missing and murdered black women and girls in America. Stories like Erica Hunt, a young mother vanished without a trace after a family gathering on 4th of July weekend 2016. No goodbyes, no clues, just gone. Listen to Hunting for Answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts about your accomplishments.
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Audience Member / Interviewer
Congratulations.
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African Architect / Expert
Thank you.
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Audience Member / Interviewer
On all your, you know, your accomplishments. So, yeah, we just thought it was really interesting just to see a. What you thought that was amazing. But then they were telling us a few other things that you. That you did. So what made you get into art? Was that a career path that you always want to go down?
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African Architect / Expert
Majored in engineering and architecture both. I'm an engineer as well, so. But before I get to that, I think the most important thing, one of the most important things in my little life here is that when I graduated, I came back. I came back for two reasons. Reason number one was that I benefited from a scholarship and I thought I have to give back because America didn't give me the scholarship for myself. They gave it to me so that when I get the education I wanted to have, I can come back and help my people and help Africa. And this lesson is very interesting because at Rensselaer, which, as you may know, is one of the biggest engineering schools in America, as a matter of fact, back in 1968, when I was there, not many black folks because it was very expensive. So if I have that opportunity of having an education, higher education in social institution, I thought I should come back because it was not the money of my parents, it was a scholarship. I'm not trying to give a lesson to anybody. I'm just trying to say, listen, sometimes you're even much better off coming back because there's so many opportunities in Africa. You cannot imagine. If I had stayed in America, I was in the same school and the same class with the architect of Bill Gates. His name was John, but he passed away about five years back. He was the architect of Bill Gates, but he was not better off than me here. So what I'm saying is that I want people who benefited from a scholarship. And even if you didn't benefit from a scholarship, if you are African, please see what you can do. Of course, the good news is that today, with the technology, you don't need to be physically back. And this is why I appreciate what you people are doing with technology today. You can stay there, but just be interested in what is going on in Africa. Business is booming, and with the experience you people have there, it's very interesting for you to come back, not physically, but to come back and see what you can do. And this is why, again, congratulations for what you're doing, to try to bridge things. That's very important. And again, days back, yes, you had to come physically to do things. But today, again, you can stay there, come from time to time, but get interested in the development of Africa. And if you do that, success is on the way. You have to grab it and you have to work very hard for it because our folks are very difficult to work with. But if you have the experience there, well. And if you have people who can open doors like our good self here, things can be very, very interesting.
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Interviewer / Journalist
Last night we got to witness, obviously, the Renaissance monument, which is extremely impressive. I think equally as impressive is the amount of people that wanted to come speak to you, and it talks about the level of relationships that you have across the continent. How has that been over the course of your career as an architect and just as a person here in Senegal and Africa?
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African Architect / Expert
Well, of course, you see, the road is not easy to build up strong reputation takes a lot of work, let's put it like that. Because you are in an environment where it's easier to go through, not to follow the rules. It's easier. I've always thought that I should be straight and clear. This is why you don't see no words. If you do that and you do things the way you think they should be done, if you have your conscience clear, you're not playing no games. Success is at the end of the road or along the road, or at the end of the road. So to build up that reputation, it's easy and difficult. Again, it's easy because you just have to do everything not to break the rules. Especially in business. Most people think that, well, they want to take a shortcut. There is no shortcut in good business, especially in Africa. So yes, I was fortunate enough to have taken that path. Because the environment is not always in your favor. Pressure is here. People don't want to think ahead, they just think for tomorrow. And this is one of the problems I have personally, because I try to have a vision. But if you have a vision with people who don't have vision, you have a problem. You see the place where we were yesterday, we were so criticized, they almost threw stones to me because they didn't understand.
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Audience Member / Interviewer
What was the criticism about?
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African Architect / Expert
Well, you see, this is a very religious country. There are Muslims and in their religion they don't always accept sculptures of people portraying people. You can portray a horse or whatever, but people, it's very difficult. Some of them accept it, some don't. And I was, I don't know if you understood the, the. The story that I told yesterday, explaining that when we finished building the monument, since the lady was a little denuded here, they started making problems. And then the president asked me, can we cover that part? And you're still in. I say yes, but it'll cost a million dollars. Million plus a million and a half. He says, a million and a half just for that club? I said yes. He said, okay, let's make it small. I say it's worse because it would be what we call becho. You know, that's what ladies wear at night. So again, you have to fight incomprehension when you look ahead.
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Audience Member / Interviewer
So how did you get the buy in from the people to accept it?
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African Architect / Expert
Well, no, actually, if you know that what you're doing is right, just be patient. Time will do the rest. And that's what happens. And today, including the big religious chiefs, they all accept. Not only do they accept if this monument was not here, you come to the car. What do you see? Almost nothing. So if in your mind, you know that this is good, go ahead and do it. Right now, the biggest project I have is. Well, it's probably building the new city, the new capital city of Gabon, called Libreville too. But along that, what I think is my. Thank you, thank you, thank you. But what I think now is that we are doing what we call the new roads, the new steel and aluminum roads. What is it? When we talk about the new steel and aluminum roads, what is that? Everybody knows that Europe was developed because of the steel industry, steel and coal. Now everybody also knows that most of the raw material to make steel and aluminum come from Africa. Now the story goes that today, if you trace the route of steel, they take the raw material, let's say in Pepel, here in Sierra Leone, it makes 20,000 kilometers to go to China to be transformed and another 20,000 kilometers to come back to Africa to be distributed. If you take aluminum, the raw material of aluminum is called bauxite. Bauxite comes from our neighbors, from guinea, most of it, of course. Guinea Conakry from the port of Kamsa. 20,000 kilometers to go, another 20 took up, makes it 80,000 kilometers. We want to reduce this into 1.2 kilometers. 80,000. 1.2. How? Because we discovered oil and gas in Senegal. And in a radius of less than 1,000 kilometers, we have more than 27 billion tons of iron ore. 27 billion tons of iron ore. If you would, with the energy that we discovered in Senegal, instead of just selling the energy. When you sell the energy, when you sell the gas, it accounts for 1.5, maybe less, maybe more dollars a cubic meter. If you would take 30 cubic meters and buy 2 tons of iron ore for $200. 200 plus 50 is $250. You would come up with a rod of steel worth $1,250. And that's the challenge. So you'll be. Not only will you be doing that, but you'll reduce. Because Pepel is just 800 kilometers from. So the 40,000 kilometers going back and forth is reduced to 88. 850 kilometers.
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Audience Member / Interviewer
One straight path.
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African Architect / Expert
Yes. Well, you go by the ocean. It's not straight path. You go by the ocean. And this is why we want to create what we call the Atlantic Africa Steel and Aluminum Alliance. Because we want to put these countries together along the Atlantic. Because you don't want to get inland because of infrastructures that are not developed. But boats can just Go from Pepel to the port of Dakar, can go from Kamsar to the port of Dakar. And we want to build a new port in Nikin in the south of Senegal, in Casa mounts, which is just 300km from where most of the iron ore, the aluminum ore, which is bauxite, comes from 300km instead of 20,000 and 20,000 back. Because we are preparing for zleka. Zleka is the new African continental command. Well, you say it well in English, we say zleka. Zone deliberation. Voila. So we are preparing for that. But if you want to prepare for that, you have to think about things that you may not see yourself, but that's not important. That's building the future. When you're building the future, you don't think about yourself. I will not be here when it starts. We have to build it.
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Interviewer / Journalist
Have you seen, like you said, you have to have vision. We've been to a few countries, and it seems like the vision is starting to become clearer as younger people come into power. Have you seen a shift in how people are looking at the future of unification, at least in West Africa?
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African Architect / Expert
Yes, of course. You see, the story goes that these new people who took power in Senegal, I sponsored them and I had a big fight with the president. But why did I sponsor them? Because they had a vision. They had faith. They wanted to fight corruption. You see, we work hard to get everything. You can see, I don't sleep. I work very hard. I passed 78. I'm still working. But you have these civil servants. After one year, they have more money than me. This is what's blocking Africa. Corruption was too high. And if I sponsored these young people, it's because they wanted to go just as what you said. They want things to go straight. They want to develop the country instead of developing their own wealth as civil servants. And they did not give the guidance that we needed. So, again, I think that things are changing. Sometimes, of course, people don't know how to change things. They make coups. Well, sometimes the coups are positive. If you take Jerry Rawlings to talk about his very beautiful country in Ghana, this gentleman, if he didn't do the coup and took out all these generals who was just taking the wealth of the people, Ghana wouldn't be where it is today. And we hope that these people will just do the same. They will change things so that everybody can profit, can get advantage of the wealth of the country. But to do that, again, you have to have a vision, and you have to know what you're talking about. And this, our vision here is, yes, we want to make Africa great again. And if you have that in your mind, if you do everything in the books to get there honestly by telling the truth, but by working hard and setting the clocks right, success is at the end. I'm looking at Donald Trump. He's not that negative. You know, I think that if he succeeds this week, even I would vote for him to have the Nobel Prize, the Nobel Peace Prize.
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Questioner / Interviewer
Wondering maybe if you could share what ancient Africa, civilization that we can look back to as young African, that makes us proud of what we had and maybe what we lost due to colonization.
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African Architect / Expert
Well, you see, do you know that the richest man ever. Because Americans, you know, when you talk with Americans, talk about money or wealth, the wealthiest person ever was an African, Mansa Musa. Musa who?
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Audience Member / Interviewer
Mansa Musa.
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African Architect / Expert
Mansa Musa, yes, he was the richest man ever. If you compare his wealth to Elon Musk, it's nothing. Elon Musk, wealth is just maybe one third, one fifth of what he had. And at that time, Africa was great. You've seen Tumbuktu, You've seen what was written by our ancestors. Shehandajob, who was a very good friend. Big brother. Yes, he was a very, very, very good friend of mine. Big brother. Big brother. Sheikh Leopold, Sirasen Gaur and all those. We had great people. But then again, it's corruption that brought us back. If you have to take a single thing, it's that. That's it. But things are improving. The. But again, these people who made coups, sometimes they don't know how to go about it. They made a coup. They have the power. Well, they are not. Well, I don't want to say educated. Most of them have limits, but they wanted to do good. Now the question is, what do we do today to make them do good? And this is where the role of the diaspora is very important. Because you know what progress is. You know what to do to go ahead, which most of our people, our leaders, don't. So, again, the road is not easy. But if you do it the way you should, success is at the end, the renaissance.
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Audience Member / Enthusiast
As an African, seeing that coming into synagogue, even though I'm just next door from Ghana, that really inspired me. Because when you travel the world, you see a lot of monuments and you hardly see anything that is African. Is there a coalition of African American architects that come together? Is there like an association where there's like a league of Pan African architects that discuss some of these things? Or is this just Like a solo trip. Because sometimes I wonder if there's, like, collaboration when these things are happening.
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African Architect / Expert
Well, okay. The monument is something else. The monument. This was the idea of President Wade, who was a big intellectual former president, who wrote a book in which he saw this African coming out of the roots of the earth and raising to point out towards America. Because to him, and he is right, the development is towards America. So the young man is pointing America. So this was almost an individual thought. But yes, we have a continental association which is called the Africa Union of Architects. We just celebrated our, what, our 40th anniversary just about two weeks ago in Kinshasa. And I happen to be one of the founders and past president of this association that puts together all the architects from Cairo to Le Cap. So, yes, we do think together, but of course, architecture is not something that you do. It's just personal inspiration. So we try to do our best. I was fortunate enough to come back, back in 73, and I found Leopold Sidasengo was our former president, a big thinker, a great poet who wanted us to do a new. To think over everything that we were doing. Architecture, dance, painting. If you're in mind, in the other room there you see the paintings that he promoted were new painters to do new architecture. As a matter of fact, the first time I went to see a head of state outside of Senegal, it was through the recommendation of President Senghor. I went to see the president of Congo, and the letter said that in Senegal, we are doing a new. We are doing a new dance, African dance, modern, new paintings and new architecture. And he recommended me to work there, which I did. And this is how I started working outside Senegal. So the only answer is from the yes, because, you see, yes, because unfortunately, if you don't start by the top, you lose a lot of time. You lose a lot of time. 1,000%. You lose your time for nothing. Even here today, you know, if you want to do something, if I cannot take my telephone and call the prime minister or call the president, you wasting your time. And that's very unfortunate. And this is what these people are trying to break. They are trying to correct this, which is not easy, because still, if I don't call the prime minister or I don't call the president, things will just keep lingering on nothing.
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Interviewer / Journalist
Art is subjective. So being American and watching that finger point, it almost feels like it could be the reverse. Whereas, how do we get ahead? How can we make development at a grand level? We need to work together. So the same way that you came to America to study. She came to America to study and came back. It almost feels like this is almost a call for black America to say, hey, we need you and your help to help us get to this place. Could it be interpreted that way?
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African Architect / Expert
Yeah, absolutely. You know, regardless of what is bad enough in America, if you take development, wealth, that's where it is. And you fully yourself, if you think that. Yes, that's not important. That's very important. Because if you see poverty, poverty is very bad. When you see people who cannot eat, who cannot sleep, who cannot cure themselves, who cannot take their children to school, then you know that wealth is something. But you have to get it the right way. In America, you like them or not, of course they have a lot of things that they do bad, very bad, starting with your own president. But there are things that you people do good, very good, sometimes your own president. So again, don't be ashamed of the fact that knowledge is there. We are in the week of the Nobel Prizes, more than half of them come from America. So you like it or not, that's where it is and accept it and take profit out of this. See how that can help to develop the country? Because at the end of the day, that's where it lies. How do you develop your country? And this is why we coming with all these theories. Because without theory, you cannot go ahead of transforming our wealth. You see, I told you, if you would transform these iron ores or these bauxite into steel and aluminum, you're talking about $15 trillion and more. $15 trillion. That's where you know, that's where it hurts. This is why the colonials didn't want us to know that. And that's where it hurts. Because you see, even today I had an argument with one of the leaders of the imf, International Monetary Fund. He came here and we had a meeting with the private sector. And this gentleman tells us, listen, don't you make no mistake. Your oil and gas discovery will not be a game changer in your economy. I said, now wait a minute, sir. Do you know that you damn right. But you write only as they say in mathematics, if and only if we listen to you. Now you listen to me. And I explained to him what I just explained to you. Yes, you know that we have X amount of cubic meters of gas. You calculated it as okay, 1 cubic meter will bring 1.$5. But I didn't see it that way. I see that If I take 30 cubic meters instead of just putting it in the market, I buy two tons of iron ore, I create $1,000 out of $30. And I explained to him, he said, yes, Mr. President, you are right. I say, okay, if you say that I'm right, you go tell my folks that what we should do is take this hour gas to transform the raw materials of the neighboring countries. Because the one we have to take the iron ore is about 600 kilometers from the shore. If we have to put a train of 600 km, it's too expensive. But we are coastal countries. You have the port of Pepel, again, the port of Kamsa. But mostly our friends from Angola, they were here about two months ago.
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Interviewer / Journalist
And.
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African Architect / Expert
They were very proud to explain to us that, well, with the Americans, your folks, thank you. They are doing the Lobito corridor. And if you see that the only country that Joe Biden visited during his term, the only place he went was in Lobito, you know why? Because that corridor will drag all the raw materials from Congo and all these countries, bring it to the Lobito city and send it to America. So I told them, because they came, they explained to us, the Angolans, we're doing this Lobito corridor. And everybody clapped their hands and say, hey, listen, think about why you clapping your hands. Americans are taking everything to send it to America and you clapping. Stop being stupid. And this is where I told them, listen, we cannot use all that material. We don't have the means. But let's take 10% of what is going and put in Lobito. We put an industrial hub that will transform only 10% of that. And the Americans can help us if we ask them to do that. And then you prepare for this zleka, this common market.
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Questioner / Interviewer
Do we ask or do we impose?
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African Architect / Expert
You ask before imposing because you cannot impose. We don't have the weapons. We don't have the means to impose. Why do you think you're. This Donald Trump is imposing because he has the means. You know, he brought all these African head of state and told them, Listen, what's your name again? Come on. I didn't speak very good English. He didn't know that Liberia was founded by the Americans. Why? Because he has no weapons and he has the wealth. If you have both, believe me, you impose your things. So we don't impose. We ask very. No, no, no, no, no. But now, no, now I think the international community knows that it's even good for the others that we get developed. That's the good side of the story. So again, don't impose. But if you explain to them that this is good for them as well. You see, if you would, if you just explain to them that this is good for them. It's just when people say that, okay, they don't want energy coming from gas because you've developed your countries, but give us 20 years, maybe 25, why not 30 to be green? We cannot be green right now, it's too expensive for us. And they wait until we discovered gas to say, okay, we don't want any powered machine, gas powered machine, we want hydrogen. We're not there yet, give us some time. But you explain to them that while they are working on green technology, we can work with them, with the less green technology that they have already, and we see how to bridge the gap in the coming 20 years. So that can be. We can start our development. But that you have to discuss, you have to accept some things and well, it's more complex than it looks. But if you have the right, if you take the right decisions, development is at the end.
- [39:03]
Questioner / Interviewer
I have a question for you. You're building cities, designing cities, and I wanted to know, how do you design a city that is reflective of the African identity, that inclusive in terms of.
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African Architect / Expert
Community.
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Questioner / Interviewer
Education, capacity transfer, and all the social infrastructure that we need?
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African Architect / Expert
Well, it's easy for me because I'm African and I came back more than 50 years ago, so I know what my people need because I'm part of the people. So to me it's easy. I mean, but in, in being African, don't forget that you are part of the modern world. My best friend. Is ChatGPT serious?
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Interviewer / Journalist
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
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African Architect / Expert
So you should avoid saying, wow, this is Africa. Africa, Africa. No, Africa is part of the world. And ChatGPT knows more than I how to mix some things. Well, there are a lot of things that I know more than me. But you know, you have to leave your world. You have to leave your, your time and your time. I'm sorry, it's. ChatGPT is part of it and unless you integrate it in your thoughts, in whatever you're doing, you know that this is progress. You cannot stop it. I used it a lot, you know, I was giving the example the other day I was in Kinshasa and I had to rush to come back because it was my former president Abdoul youth's birthday and I wanted a song for Abdul Youth. So I asked chatgpt, can you make a poem for him? In one minute I had the poem and then I say, hey, listen, can I have the music with it? 2 minutes I have the music and then I Said, listen, I want the music to be played by robots. And five minutes after, I had the robots playing the music. Now you want me to leave that because that's technology and be writing for two weeks or two months like you Sundoor would do? No, that's finished.
- [41:39]
Interviewer / Journalist
Last night we got to saw some of the future visions for Dakar. Specifically, I wonder where the inspiration came from because it feels futuristic and that goes back to the vision. So what was that process where the inspiration come from? I think we saw it was a gory tower. We're just super impressed by it. So how did, how did you come up with the ideas?
- [42:02]
African Architect / Expert
Well, I don't think when I do those things, it just comes natural because when I take my pen, I draw. It's just. I don't even think. It just comes. You do this and you do it. But you always. I always have the will to develop the continent. This is why, for example, in one of the pictures didn't show good because of the screen that was too large. But you'd see the map of Africa. I do a lot of things with the map of Africa. So you saw. Did you see the baobab? Ocean Baobab? If you see it here, if you have two minutes, I'll show it to you. Ocean Baobab comes from the inspiration of the palm in Dubai. The palm is the palm. The palm is the palm. Yep.
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Interviewer / Journalist
I said this looks like Dubai.
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African Architect / Expert
Yeah, the palm is the palm. And the same people. Because, you know, it takes a lot of technology to do that. The same people who did the palm in Dubai will be doing with us while own entrepreneurs M will be doing this baobab.
- [43:37]
Interviewer / Journalist
Amazing.
- [43:38]
African Architect / Expert
And this is how you mix things the way it should be.
- [43:42]
Interviewer / Journalist
It had the marina, it had the ports. And they've been saying that this is the closest destination from America on the continent.
- [43:51]
African Architect / Expert
Absolutely. Well, it's a little. I'll show you where the closest destination to the continent is. This is just this about, well, two kilometers away, because this is at the port of Dakar in front of Gore. The story behind Ocean Baobab is that this slave came out of Gore from the small gate, the small door, and he comes back with technology, with development, and he's re entering Gore by the big gates. That's why you saw that big tower, Gore Tower. They came back here, and this is what they came. They came from here, and this is what they bring to the world. Going back to Gore, you'll see the story, but that's it. And again, what people don't know I'll show you what we call Smart Island. And these are things that you people going back to America can help. You know that the future is of course, with big data. The new data centers will be the big brothers and we developing in the sea what we call Smart Island. Smart Island. I'll show it to you if you have a minute. Smart island wants to develop the future of Africa in an island with the shape of Africa. And what people don't know is that building that island on the sea, the land is cheaper than the land onshore. Because in that area, the land have taken so much value that it's very difficult to acquire a piece of land there. But if we build an island, the island is twice cheaper than the soil. But you have to know it. If you don't know it, you cannot say it. So I'll show you Smart Island. Where I need your help is that we need. For example, black folks come here all the time. They go to gory. Oh, our ancestors, all this, all that. You don't see a penny when they go. How would they take this emotion, she's good. And turn it into facts for development? And again, talking about. Not a vision, but just thinking. Yesterday you didn't see her. One of the ladies of Black Panther was there. Wakanda, you know, Black Panther, Good lady. I don't know her name. She came for dinner here, but come on, she's the warrior, you know, she's the number three. You have the Black Panther, huh? I don't know. I mean, the name. Why?
- [47:23]
Audience Member / Enthusiast
Why?
- [47:23]
African Architect / Expert
She was huge. That's the one here. I wish she was here, but I didn't. She was there with us. She had the bodyguards, etc. She gave me bodyguards. I came to. Huh? I mean, she's a star, but no, no, no, I didn't. Well, look, I probably. We even had dinner with the bodyguard. I mean. I mean, to me it's not a problem, but, you know. Oh, wow. I. Sassy kiss. Uncle Sassy Ki Uncle. So, any other question?
- [48:42]
Audience Member / Interviewer
My last question. I just wanted to know, how do you think that affected Senegal society? Just that one monument that you built. Like, what has that done for the country?
- [48:53]
African Architect / Expert
Well, people can identify themselves with the monuments and, you know, people are proud to see that, well, there is something happening, and especially the kids, you know, when they tell them that I am the architect, you cannot imagine what happens. You cannot imagine, you know, when interviews, he would play we remain so you can. Especially for the young people to see that, you know, they all know the Eiffel Tower. Eiffel Tower is here when they go to Paris, but now they are proud to see that people come and say, wow, this is the monument of the Renaissance. So yes, it's anything you do that can bring proud and happiness to the people. Why not? But again, the diaspora. And again, I appreciate what you people are doing. You should invite people to come back here because again, if I tell you that with this steel and aluminum roll you will be generating, you could be generating more than $15 trillion. That means there is plenty of work for everybody. Plenty, plenty. And please, you who have the expertise and who know the people who can develop this continent, do everything in the books to bring them. Because the chance, the chances you have acquire wealth in Africa, you cannot have the same chance anywhere else. So again, come back for us to make Africa great again.
- [51:17]
Audience Member / Enthusiast
Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
- [51:18]
African Architect / Expert
Thank you. Merci beaucour.
- [51:27]
Podcast Advertiser / Hunter
Every now and then I rinse it out and I need jammy rinse tonight and I need it more. My kid and the smell never leave. I don't know what to do. I'm always in the dark. The sweat.
- [51:49]
African Architect / Expert
Downy rinse fights stubborn odors in just one wash. When impossible odors get stuck in it out.
- [52:00]
Podcast Host
The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with with a story.
- [52:13]
African Architect / Expert
America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.
- [52:25]
Podcast Host
Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.
- [52:39]
Podcast Advertiser / Hunter
I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Join me every weekday as I share bite sized stories of missing and murdered black women and girls in America. Stories like Erica Hunt. A young mother vanished without a trace after a family gathering on 4th of July weekend, 2016. No goodbyes, no clues, just gone. Listen to Hunting for Answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [53:15]
African Architect / Expert
Did it occur to you that he charmed you in any way? Yes, it did. But he was a charming man. It looks like the ingredients of a really grand spy story because this ties together the Cold War with the new one.
- [53:30]
Audience Member / Interviewer
I often ask myself now, did I.
- [53:34]
African Architect / Expert
Know the true Yan at all? Listen to Hot Money, Agent of chaos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.