How Lecrae Built His Music Empire: Secrets to Independent Success & Balancing Faith with Music

Summary

Summary of "How Lecrae Built His Music Empire: Secrets to Independent Success & Balancing Faith with Music"

Earn Your Leisure Podcast hosted by Rashad Bilal and Troy Millings delves deep into the entrepreneurial journey of Lecrae, a prominent figure in the music industry known for blending faith with hip-hop. Released on January 23, 2025, this episode uncovers the strategies Lecrae employed to build his independent music empire, navigate the challenges of maintaining authenticity, and balance his spiritual beliefs with his artistic endeavors.

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1. Early Influences and Background

Lecrae’s upbringing played a pivotal role in shaping his music and business acumen. Born in Houston and raised by a mother who balanced rigorous church teachings with the progressive ideals of the Black Panthers, Lecrae was encouraged to be a free thinker.

Notable Quote:

[08:28] Lecrae: "Hip hop raised me. It wasn't until I joined a college Bible study that I had a spiritual transformation."

This unique blend of influences nurtured Lecrae’s desire to infuse faith into his music, setting him apart in the hip-hop landscape.

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2. Building an Independent Label

Facing rejection from both major and gospel labels for being "too Christian" and "too edgy," Lecrae opted to create his own path by founding an independent label. This decision was inspired by Houston’s entrepreneurial rap scene, where artists sold music directly from their trunks.

Notable Quote:

[14:46] Lecrae: "We knew we had something unique by blending traditional hip-hop sounds with my faith."

Lecrae’s label focused on authentic storytelling and direct engagement with fans, allowing for greater creative control and financial independence.

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3. Strategic Marketing and Business Acumen

Lecrae emphasizes the importance of understanding the market through continuous learning and adaptation. By reading books from industry leaders like Russell Simmons and implementing focus groups, he fine-tuned his business strategies.

Notable Quote:

[28:12] Lecrae: "Proof of concept is crucial. If the market shows interest, you move forward."

This analytical approach ensured that Lecrae’s music resonated with his target audience, facilitating growth and sustainability.

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4. Balancing Faith and Mainstream Appeal

Navigating the intersection of faith and mainstream hip-hop, Lecrae faced skepticism from traditional Christian communities. However, his authentic approach and refusal to overtly categorize his music as solely Christian rap allowed him to reach a broader audience.

Notable Quote:

[36:30] Rashad Bilal: "How do you keep it authentic without making it corny?"

Lecrae addressed this by allowing artists under his label to express their faith organically within their music, avoiding forced religious messaging and maintaining artistic integrity.

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5. Touring and Building a Dedicated Fan Base

Understanding the importance of live performances, Lecrae advocated for independent touring to build a loyal fan base. Unlike mainstream artists who rely on club gigs, Lecrae focused on creating meaningful connections through consistent and authentic live shows.

Notable Quote:

[46:54] Lecrae: "You have to be a hard ticket artist. That's how you're going to have longevity."

This strategy not only strengthened fan loyalty but also provided a sustainable revenue stream outside of album sales and streaming.

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6. Investing and Financial Literacy

Beyond music, Lecrae is passionate about financial education and investing. Through his involvement with Collab Capital, he aims to support Black entrepreneurs by raising funds and providing resources for financial growth.

Notable Quote:

[75:36] Lecrae: "Legacy is what you leave in people. I want to create opportunities for others."

His commitment to financial literacy underscores the importance of diversifying income streams and securing long-term financial stability for artists.

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7. Personal Journey and Reconnecting with Family

A significant moment in Lecrae’s life was reconnecting with his estranged father after decades of separation. This encounter was deeply influenced by his faith, leading to a journey of forgiveness and personal growth.

Notable Quote:

[68:47] Lecrae: "If God can forgive me, how can I not forgive my dad?"

This personal revelation not only impacted Lecrae’s life but also influenced his approach to leadership and mentorship within his label.

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8. Future Plans and Legacy

Looking ahead, Lecrae remains focused on building a lasting legacy that extends beyond music. His initiatives include signing new artists, producing innovative music, and continuing to invest in entrepreneurial ventures that uplift the community.

Notable Quote:

[75:33] Lecrae: "I'm always telling my artists to see me as a client. You're building something, use what I have to build whatever you need."

His vision encapsulates both personal and collective growth, aiming to leave an indelible mark on the music industry and beyond.

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Conclusion

Lecrae’s story is a testament to the power of authenticity, strategic thinking, and unwavering faith. By carving out his own niche in the competitive world of hip-hop, he has not only achieved commercial success but also inspired a generation of artists to balance their spiritual beliefs with their creative pursuits. This episode of Earn Your Leisure offers invaluable insights into Lecrae’s multifaceted approach to building a music empire, making it a must-listen for aspiring entrepreneurs and artists alike.

Transcript

[Rashad Bilal]

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[Troy Millings]

Yes, 2023. We got a lot in store, a lot planned for you guys. So you know that EYLU already includes monthly financial planning calls with me. Book club calls with Troy, Real estate calls with MG the mortgage guy. Access to the home buying blueprint volume one and volume two. Part of the revamp will include 27 local chapters from across the United States. Live interactive teaching, hands on, not just Pre recorded videos. Plus 15 brand new curriculum.

[Rashad Bilal]

The biggest just Got bigger head over to eyluniversity.com that's E Y L U N I V E R S I.

[Lecrae]

T y dot com. See you there.

[Troy Millings]

All right, guys. Welcome back. Eyl.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yes.

[Troy Millings]

We are in the studio. Back off of Invest Fest with one of the highlights of Invest Fest.

[Rashad Bilal]

That's a fact.

[Troy Millings]

If you didn't catch his interview with Big Facts, then you definitely missed a great one. Hopefully they might put that out. I don't know. But lrae, I mean, you know, we look at the music industry, somebody that's changed the game as far as the content is. Is important. We'll talk about the categoration of the content. But, yeah, in a time where, you know, people have complained about a lot of negative influences in music and how it. It influences people, people, especially young people, I think that it's positive to have a balance. So he's been able to do it. And also an entrepreneur running a record label. 20. We just talked about 27 awards and counting from Grammys.

[Rashad Bilal]

People say amen to everything and just.

[Troy Millings]

Been, you know, a very interesting story. So thank you for joining us.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm excited to be here, boy.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yeah, we. We saw each other in passing. I was like, my brother, I appreciate you so much.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, man, I was a. I had a blast. It was a phenomenal time, man.

[Troy Millings]

Thank you.

[Lecrae]

Phenomenal.

[Troy Millings]

So for the people that may have heard about you, but not totally familiar with your story.

[Lecrae]

Yep.

[Troy Millings]

So, all right, you. I want to make sure I say this correctly.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

You are a hip hop artist first and foremost, but your content usually leans towards Christian rap.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's so many ways to spin that. This is what I always try to tell people. I am authentically Christian, but I am authentically hip hop. I'm kind of like if outcast in the books of Moses came together. You know what I'm saying? So. So it's kind of like sometimes it's a category for people, but that's the essence of hip hop for a lot of folks. It's always been this outlier that people didn't quite understand. And then it was like, okay, hip hop is now mainstream. But then it was like, Southern rappers. What is that? And then it's like, now you got Outkast and it's mainstream now. The south is, like, on the forefront of it. And I look at it the same way. You know what I'm saying? It's like Wu Tang was spitting 5% gyms. And it's like, okay, that's the perspective they Coming from. This is the perspective I'm coming from. But at the end of the day, it's hip hop. You know what I mean?

[Troy Millings]

That's a good point. Honestly, I never really thought about it like that, but I never heard, like, Rakim be classified as a 5% rapper.

[Lecrae]

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yeah. It's hip hop music. It just has a faith base.

[Lecrae]

That's right.

[Troy Millings]

Which. That's any. Anything that you do is going to influence your life that you're living.

[Lecrae]

Exactly.

[Troy Millings]

Like, you know what I'm saying?

[Lecrae]

Like, that's just.

[Troy Millings]

That's just common sense. Like, you unwrap about the things that you do on a daily basis. So. All right, so how did. How did this come about for you, as far as you're from Houston originally, then you moved to the West Coast.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

So I'm assuming you grew up in a church.

[Lecrae]

I didn't. See, that's the crazy part.

[Rashad Bilal]

That's the part.

[Lecrae]

Yeah. So my mom. My mom grew up in church, and she had a really negative experience. So it's like, very legal with the church. The church, yeah. So she had this real kind of rigorous. Like, she couldn't wear pants, makeup, and she. This is in Houston, Third war Houston. So it was really tough on her. And at the same time, she's also. The Black Panthers is feeding her free breakfast and teaching her these lessons. So she getting both of these worlds. And she like, wait a minute. So she like, I don't want my kid to have religion forced on them. So she raised me to be a free thinker. So as a kid, I'm reading Eldridge Cleaver, I'm reading Autobiography, Malcolm X. I'm reading WB Du Bois. She like, nah, we not doing this religious stuff. You know, she was a hippie. You know, she got her little weed room and all of that, you know what I'm saying? So that was kind of the. The world. And she let me explore. And so I just. Hip hop raised me, you know what I'm saying? So that's just, you know, and it wasn't until I was a young adult going to a college Bible study that, you know, I had a full ride to University of North Texas. A girl invited me to a Bible study. I went, never heard any of this stuff before. And that's when the transition started to happen. And I always rapped, but now I had a different lens, so I didn't know gospel music, nothing. The first gospel album I ever listened to, as far as I'm concerned, was the Miseducation Lauryn Hill. So that's what I thought you do when you meet God. I thought you rap like that. And so that's what I started trying to do.

[Rashad Bilal]

So this is late 90s.

[Lecrae]

Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

Right. Because I feel like we're from the same generation.

[Lecrae]

Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

So you didn't. Obviously you didn't grow up listening to gospel music, but the hip hop era of that time, so Miseducation. That's interesting. I've never thought of it in that sense. Who else at this time is influencing you? Because I know you're big on Jay for a few reasons. Outcast. But what was it about the lyrics that said, you know what? I love what they're doing? Because at this time, people are talking about the negative impact that hip hop has had. Gangsta music has just been introduced in the early 90s. Now we're getting the bling era going.

[Lecrae]

How.

[Rashad Bilal]

How do you say, all right, I like this. I'm listening to it. It's influencing me. Let me do something different. Yeah.

[Lecrae]

So Tupac was probably my. He was like my dad. You know what I'm saying? So he was so transparent and vulnerable. That vulnerability I wanted to communicate in my music, you know what I'm saying? Just the pain. He had a song called Papa Song where he talked about his relationship with his dad. My dad ran out on the family. He was doing his dirt, had his run ins with the law. He was running with the Crips in Compton. And I never saw him after I was four years old, he was gone.

[Troy Millings]

Ever in life?

[Lecrae]

Nah, I just saw him again for the first time in 2020, and we sat down and had a discussion for the first time. I filmed it and everything out in Cali. So hip hop was like, my dad, these were the men who were raising me. I'm listening to these stories, and I was like, I want to impact people the way POC is impacting me. After I met God and had my spiritual transformation, it was like, I'm still like this to this day, but it was like righteous and ratchet. So it's like I still listen to the hood, the ratchet stuff, but I was trying to like, yo, I'm changing. I need to listen to Common now. I need to listen to live. I need to listen to most. I need to listen to Slum Village. Like, I need some positive, like, different type of focus in my music. And so that's kind of, you know, how I developed some of my. My craftsmanship. But even just talking about things that matter to me, but out feeling like I'm just trying to punch people in the face with it. But just, like, it's. It's just who I am.

[Rashad Bilal]

It's crazy that you reference those albums because at the same time, I'm listening to those albums. So, like, Common puts out B. Yeah. But you being, obviously Houston, having some roots.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

I wonder how much Scarface played it, because at this time, the fix is coming out, and that whole album, classic album. He's talking about faith. He's talking about God, man.

[Lecrae]

My drummer to this day says Scarf is his gospel music. He from Houston as well. Okay, so Houston. So the funny thing is, Houston, the rap scene, when you from something and you around some, it doesn't have the same kind of influence on you as people would think. So it was like the rap scene was everywhere. But hip hop, to me, was so global. I wanted to know what was happening with the west coast, the east coast, you know, I wanted to know all about that, because Houston, I could walk out the house and that. That's right there. What Houston taught me more than anything, and to this day, Chamillionaire is still one of my dudes. What it taught me more than anything is the hustle, is the entrepreneurship. Because everybody was selling their music out the trunk. It's why I have an independent label to this day, is because that's what I saw. You know, I went to school in Texas. My partners was from Houston. And you just saw how it worked. You saw entrepreneurship. So even with my first cd, I went to the major label. They said, it's too Christian. Take it to the gospel label. I went to the gospel label. They said, it's too edgy. Take it to the mainstream label. So I said, oh, neither one of them want me. Let me create my own lane, because that's what Houston had to do. So it was like, all right, we coming out the trunk with it. You know what I mean? And I have. It's a crazy story. How it popped off for me was I made this cd. I'm on my campus. I got a group of folks who rocking with me. I take it to the store, trying to sell a box of CDs on consignment. They said, we'll take one. I give them one. And then I say. They say, yeah, if somebody buys it, then we'll, you know, maybe we'll buy some more. They. I give them one. I send four people up there. They go, buy that one. They say, all right, we'll take five. I give them five. Within two hours, all five are gone. They don't realize I got 400 people.

[Troy Millings]

You're sending people.

[Lecrae]

I got 400 people ready to come.

[Troy Millings]

Where's the 400 people from?

[Lecrae]

From my cop. From my campus.

[Troy Millings]

People that you know.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, from my campus. Who rocking with me and supporting me because I was putting in the work on the yard, on the campus. You know what I'm saying? And just.

[Rashad Bilal]

What school you at?

[Lecrae]

I'm at North Texas University of North Texas.

[Troy Millings]

You play sports?

[Lecrae]

I tried to walk on a basketball team, but it was too much. It was too. Too much of a grind, you know?

[Troy Millings]

So what's called. You say you got a scholarship?

[Lecrae]

I got a full scholarship in performing arts. Performing arts.

[Rashad Bilal]

Makes sense.

[Lecrae]

So, yeah.

[Troy Millings]

Okay, so as far as the independent side of it, right, What. What is. What's the steps that you took to actually have a label? Because it's one thing to press up CDs and sell them, Right? Right. That. That's a hustle.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

But if you have a label, that's a business, right? So how do you just start a label?

[Lecrae]

So obviously you need seed capital to really begin to do the work. My partner, Ben, you know, he had another friend of ours, a friend of his, who was like, I got like five grand from my pops that we can invest into this. So with that 5,000, it was like, that's the lawyer drawing up, getting the trademark, the llc, all of those particular things. The logo, the logo, all of that, building it out. What we already had was a market base. So we already had a fan base, we had a market, we had good music, because no one had ever heard anything like this before. Because I was blending the traditional sounds of hip hop with my faith. And it was like, what is this? You know what I mean? So we knew we had something. We had a focus group with the campus. You know what I'm saying? So the test market. The issue now was creating a business. And so after the business was created, we still didn't really understand. No one went to business school, so we still didn't understand how it works. So I'm reading books. The information is free. I'm reading Russell Simmons books. I'm reading everybody's books, trying to understand what this looks like. And from there it was like, oh, we gotta put the UPC. We first. We were selling CDs without the UPC code. It is just like the UPC code on the back of the cd. Just, you know, the barcode people. Exactly. You're just learning that, and you just learn pieces of the game. I highly recommend, like, if you gotta do it yourself. You'll learn the whole game. A lot of times artists will give their artistry to someone else and say, you figure it out, but you don't learn the game that way. So for us, it was doing it everything. I mean, literally, I'm mailing every CD. I'm mailing CDs to Australia and paying the fees on it and learning like, oh, I gotta figure out a different way to do this. And. And so, you know, it was just a step by step process. It was a slow burn, but it was, you know, slow grind, but of a show grind.

[Troy Millings]

And that was ninth. What year?

[Lecrae]

That was 2003. 2004.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah, that was. That's before itunes.

[Lecrae]

Yes.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

What's the trans you from the physical CDs to actually iTunes? DSP.

[Lecrae]

Yeah. So that's the. That was a dope part is we. We're young, so our audience is young, you know, because generally your audience is like five to 10 years younger than you. Right. So our audience is young. So transitioning to digital wasn't a hard thing because we had a young audience. Older audiences tend to struggle with like, change. So for us, it was like what social media is today back then was YouTube. So we just was on YouTube. We making content. Content. Here go a EPK. Here go the story of how this song was made. And our audience is eating it up. And then we saying, go to itunes and go get this. You know what I mean? And that's how mainstream started to pay attention because we didn't categorize ourselves in a Christian category. We put ourselves in a hip hop category.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yeah.

[Lecrae]

So our fan base was. It was a groundswell and then it just jumped up and all of a sudden people like, yo, who it? What is the Lecrae? Why is Lecrae beating Nicki Minaj? I had the barbs coming at me crazy, like, would you be there at. On the charts? On the itunes Charts? Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

I heard your name before I ever knew who you were.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

Because I just kept saying I was. I was. I mean, I go to church. I was going to church every Sunday and I kept hearing it. I got a few questions though, because it's interesting. You said mainstream and I'm thinking to myself, people that go to church, the population is getting older and older and older. I don't see as many young people going. So that's interesting. So who's the. How are you being received by church going? The traditional gospel art, the Fred Hammonds, the Hezekiah Walkers, who they're looking at like, that's the music we listen to when we go into church. Whereas your approach is like, that's what I'm gonna listen to.

[Lecrae]

Right.

[Rashad Bilal]

This almost feels like this is secular music.

[Lecrae]

That's exactly what it was.

[Rashad Bilal]

How was that reception early on?

[Lecrae]

But see, it was like nwa. It was. It's like, the more you say we are wrong, the more the young folks want it, you know? So we was getting. Oh, they hated us. They was like, this is the devil. Rap and God don't go together. And look at they clothes and the tattoos and, you know. But who was saying that? The older pastors in churches. You know what I'm saying? So even one dude went on, made a series about us and how we was. People should not be listening to our music and steamrolling it. And. But that was fuel because it just made younger folks say, oh, I gotta check this out. What is this? You know what I'm saying?

[Rashad Bilal]

Exactly what happens.

[Lecrae]

And that's what. That's what ended up happening for us. But we faced a lot of backlash. Oftentimes. What would happen? It would be like a youth pastor or somebody like that who was like, yo, my kids rock with it. We gonna bring you out to do something.

[Unknown]

Or.

[Lecrae]

It would be like some hood outreach, you know, where it wasn't connected to a church. It would just be like somebody who is like, just trying to impact the neighborhood. And they would bring us out. And then that's how it was spreading. But. But also, there was a sports camp in Branson, Missouri, in Missouri called Kids Across America. And this camp was for, like, inner city youth. And they was kids off the block, but they come into this camp to get this new experience. And our music is pumping through the speakers. So these kids like, yo, what is this? This is crazy. And they're loving it. So of course, their leaders and, you know, guidance counselors are like, I gotta get this music back to them because it's connecting with them. And. And it just was like a tumbleweed effect, man. It just kept building.

[Rashad Bilal]

So that. That's exactly how I got introduced.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

My pastor, he came from music. He had a music background.

[Lecrae]

Okay.

[Rashad Bilal]

He's a little bit younger. He comes from. He's from Queensland.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

So he's into hip hop.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

And I was like, that's the first time I heard it. I was in church. The other part of that question is a lot of times in hip hop, you know, people are rapping about the environments that they're in.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

And so as you being faith based, I wonder what the environment around you is like. Because, like, I grew up and like, as an adult, I was going to church, but none of my friends were going.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

And it was like, yeah, I can't do nothing on Sunday. Sunday I go to church.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

So how much did that did. Was there pressure or was it like, did people start conforming around you to say, look, he's doing something, we should probably join him? Or were people kind of like, reluctant to be a part of this?

[Lecrae]

So this was the crazy part. The. Because the black community oftentimes, you know, we. The white community's been around the Monopoly board more times than we have, right? So because we don't get as many chances around a monopoly board, we're not as apt to change. We're a little tighter on things. We're like, wait a minute, I don't know. Because I. I'm first generation money. I can't be giving it away or, you know, things along those lines. So the white Christian community was like the first to really give me a chance to let me rock, you know, the black community was like, oh, no, this don't feel right. White Christian community was like, dude, yes, do something different, bro. Like, yeah, get a rapper. They had already done the Christian rock thing. So they bringing me out to these rock festivals and they got. I mean, it's 60,000 people out there, you know what I'm saying? Billy Graham speaking and all this type of stuff. So I'm like, I'm out there and I'm like, the first encounter they've ever had with something like this. And they're just. They've been around the Monopoly board a few more times. They got the extra money to invest in it. They'll take a risk, a chance. So they was giving me a chance to rock. And I did the same thing that Jay did with Linkin park or the same thing that Run DMC did with Aerosmith. And I started blending in some of they sounds with my song. And I would make a remix just for that event. And then it was like gangbusters. So now I had this community rocking with me tough. And little by little, the black community was like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We. Okay, if it works, then we'll take it. You know what I mean? And it's understandable. Cause, you know, we're a little more like, wait a minute, reserved with what we got.

[Troy Millings]

So, okay, as far as, like, being an independent artist, we've seen a lot of independent artists like Russ, even the Russell, shout out to him where They've been able to make money, especially, like, Russ. Like, he's been able to make a lot of money, but I've never heard a Russ song played, like, on the.

[Lecrae]

Radio or something like that ever in life.

[Troy Millings]

Right. But he's. He's been able to cultivate a cult following, do shows, so merch, whatever.

[Rashad Bilal]

Right.

[Troy Millings]

So a lot of people don't. They don't understand that. They're like, how can you. How could you. How can you be a successful artist if I. I don't. I've never seen this person.

[Lecrae]

Right.

[Troy Millings]

So you, as independent artist.

[Lecrae]

Right.

[Troy Millings]

That has had a lot of success. What's your blueprint as far as, you know, maintaining your. Your following?

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

You know, know, making revenue while facing the challenges of not being, like, a quote, unquote, mainstream artist.

[Lecrae]

Yeah. I think, you know, they say niches get riches, so, you know, are you taking care of your niche? You taking care of your space? I never believed that I was in any other business other than the people business. You're always in the people business. If you take care of people, they'll take care of you. So if you just look at this as a transactional situation. If you don't look at it as, how can I benefit the person on the other side, the consumer, from this B to C, how do I take care of them? Because then they gonna take care of me. So, man, we super serve our fans. You know what I'm saying? Like, every T shirt, we just little something small. Throw some Jolly ranchers in a package. When you send it to them, they're like, yo, they sent me some candy. It's just. It's small, but it's like they feel considered, you know, doing Q&As. I was meet and greets with everybody when I first got started, you know, just to, like, super serve the people that was coming to support me. And you got to realize if you're experiencing something, there's other people who are having a similar experience. So there's all. You're not alone. So how do you connect with the people who are dealing with or wrestling with or. Or experiencing the stuff you're experiencing? And that was how, you know, we did it. And that was the crazy, like, just like, what you're saying with, like, with Russ and everything. I had the number one album in the country, beat Maroon 5, and everyone's like, how. Who is this? Who's this person? I don't know a single song. I didn't have no record on the radio, so everyone's scratching their Head, like, why? It's because, man, I'm super serving my knee, my niche, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, I'm at everywhere they are, I'm there, I'm doing the shows, I'm doing the meet and greets, connecting with them, I'm sending out the packages, I'm having conversations. And I think a lot of times artists don't want to put in that work and do that hand to hand transaction to understand the market. That's another thing I come from. So when I first got out of school, I couldn't find a job. So I went to the cable car. I was a cable guy, you know, I'm in addicts fighting off rats, you know what I'm saying? Installing cable. And I hated it so much that one day the vice president came to give us a little motivational speech like, hey, vice president of the cable company, you guys are our superstars. And I went up to her and I was like, yo, you know, I got a background in marketing. You know, I went to school. Is there any way, you know, because my days off are Thursdays and Tuesdays and Thursdays is any way I can come and intern for free, you know, whatever y'all need me to do. And she was like, oh, okay. So I went up into that building and I just was soaking up game, just soaking up games, soaking up to the point where they was like, oh, you, we gotta hire you. You're not cable guy no more. So now I'm working in the marketing department at the cable company, you know, and soaking up more games, soaking up more games. So everything I'm soaking up focus groups, test markets, how to talk to people, you know, running a board meeting. This is all game. I'm soaking up. So by the time I start my own company, I have a prototype from a very successful cable company on certain little things. And I think it's just access to that information helps you to understand how to connect to a marketplace.

[Troy Millings]

I would some of those things that you learned.

[Lecrae]

So one of the things which we do now is do you have proof of concept, Right? So a lot of times especially artists will say, yo, my music's dope, Listen to me, listen to music. How do you know it's dope? You got proof of concept, like you made it your product, whatever you created, do you have proof of concept that people want this, that it works? So, you know, proof of concept is we tested it and we got a good result. So what they tasked me with, they couldn't figure out why Hispanic people weren't watching this network. And it was like, they're not buying our package for, you know, the Latin community's not buying it. So I'm in Texas, and so I said, well, let me do a focus group, you know, because I've seen them do focus groups for other things. So I just say, yeah, let me get a. You know, get a bunch of the Latin community out here. Let me ask them some questions. And they. And I'm like, why don't y'all watch this? And it was like, it's Cuban. It's Puerto Rican. Is we're Mexican. And it was like, oh, y'all speaking to the wrong people. You know what I'm saying?

[Rashad Bilal]

Yes, we speak Spanish place.

[Lecrae]

So it's like, all right. No proof of concept. That's why this packaging working. Redo it. They redid it and made more networking for the Mexican American community. Bam. Took off like gangbusters. So same concept for me now is I'll take my artist Limo Blaze. He's an afrobeat artist, a producer made this remix of a very popular song. It went viral on his IG. I said, they like this remix of this song. That's the sound. That's proof of concept that this sound bass works. You need to rap over this. He raps over it, jumps up to top 40 afrobeat charts. You know what I'm saying? And it was just like, we already saw it worked. The market already said it worked. So do that. And that's one of the things I learned working.

[Troy Millings]

Have you ever done a focus group?

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

For music?

[Lecrae]

Yeah, we do focus groups all the time.

[Troy Millings]

You do?

[Rashad Bilal]

So this is Reese.

[Troy Millings]

Random people.

[Lecrae]

Yeah. So we'll do a test market. We'll have, like, fans. See, that's another way to super serve them as well. Cause now they're getting exclusive.

[Rashad Bilal]

Let them hear it first.

[Lecrae]

Exactly. So we'll get a group of fans. We'll say, yo, here's six songs. Rank them. You know what I mean? Like, and they'll be like, this one is this. This one's that. This one's this. And you got 2,000 fans. And they like, these are my top fives. And this is why. And this is why. So now you got feedback. You got proof of concept. Yeah. You in the office thought this was the joint. That ain't it.

[Rashad Bilal]

I'm gonna stay there for a sec. Right. Because it sounds like you're big on analytics.

[Lecrae]

Oh, for sure.

[Rashad Bilal]

Like, I can just hear it. What? The way you're talking. So what happens when you do the focus group. Right. Because sometimes it works, but sometimes you. You'll hear. And like you said, this ain't working. What are the lessons that you learning from that? When it's like, all right, yeah, we tried this one. Didn't chart. What are we learning from this?

[Lecrae]

Yeah, so one of the things you got to learn, one of the things I've learned is that the market's always changing. And what. And. And even, like, the audiences are always changing, so you can't always bank on it. A case in point was, you know, I had a record with Metro booming called Hammer Time. And at that point in time, everything on Rap Caviar that was doing well had Metro's tag at the beginning. You know what I'm saying? So it's like the top 10 songs got. If your Metro don't trust you or something, like, you know. Yeah. Metro on the chat. So it's like, all right, we're going, we're going. We gonna run this song. Because everything with Metro in it is taken off. We make the record, put it on. Rap Caviar didn't work because what's starting to happen was ear fatigue. It wasn't the same thing. It didn't work in the same way. It didn't move the needle like it did. The audience had kind of already moved on, but we didn't realize that, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, you got to understand, like, where are people? And that's why I keep younger people around me who are. Who are tapped in and attuned to what's going on, because you are looking at things from your vantage point and where you are in life. But meanwhile, the culture is moving a completely different way. So it's always just like, you know, who has their ear to what's going on and where is culture going and how can I be tapped into the culture? And if. And that's sociology. That's just understanding where people are. You know, all good marketers are sociologists and understand where culture is.

[Rashad Bilal]

So you got the Metro booming feature.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

But I wonder, as you're doing Reach Records and you're obviously creating music, who's the first person from your background of influence of music that is receptive to it, that's accepted, accepting to it, and saying, like, this is a guy we need to rock with. Who's the first feature that's like, this is now about my life, about to change for me.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, the person that tapped in early.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yeah.

[Lecrae]

Don Cannon. Don Cannon, dj, You know, the gangsta Grills, mixtapes, and all that type of stuff was popping. So I would say this kind of two. It's my guy, Street Symphony. So street and I went to school together. Street went to work for Luda, disturbing a piece. He's, you know, doing all this type of work. Street starts, you know, he's like, man, God is showing up my life. I want to transition and do some. Do some different things. Craig, let's work together. He already was plugged with Don Cannon. He links me with Don Cannon, and we get the idea, like, yo, we need to do a mixtape. You know what I'm saying? What we gonna call it? Church clothes. Why we call it church clothes? Because everyone expects us to wear a suit and tie, but we out here in jeans and tattoos and fitteds, and these are church clothes. You know what I'm saying? So no one was putting. It was the first time anybody put, like, a Christian rap mixtape on, like, that Piff and all them type of sites, right? So Don Cannon is like, I'm with it. We, we. You know, I get beats from 9th wonder. I get. You know, I had met Kendrick a couple years prior. Me and Kendrick built a dope relationship. Kendrick does a little intro on my video for the song, and it crashes the mixtape website, you know what I'm saying? It was.

[Rashad Bilal]

They.

[Lecrae]

The downloads were so crazy. One was our fans. Two was the intrigue. Because it's like, is this going to be dope? What is this going to be? So it's like people just intrigued, wanting to listen to it. And, you know, that for us was like confirmation. It was like, yo, Don Cannon did the mixtape. You get. You hear him in the background. It's the mixtape era, too. So it's like, you hear him in the background and people like, what is this? 9th Wonder Beats? And it's like, yo, this is crazy. We never heard nothing like this before. And I think that's when people was really, like, tapped in. And then the second thing I would say was the catalyzer that pushed me over again. I'm doing the work on the front end. So you. A lot of artists don't have what Malcolm Gladwell says. They 10,000 hours. You know what I'm saying? 10,000 hours is gonna make you an expert at something. I had my 10,000 hours in, so by the time I got to this moment, this watershed moment, I was ready for it. And that watershed moment was my Tosh. My publicist at the time, Tasha Stout, got me on the BET Cipher for the Hip Hop Awards. They didn't know what category to put me in. So they put me in a Foreigner's category. So I'm in there with French dudes, Estelle, you know, from London. But I'm ready, you know, I've been groomed for this moment. That's my watershed moment. And they never heard nothing like it. I'm getting hit up, Royce the 5, all these rappers, like, what is this? And that was when it was like, we own. You know what I mean?

[Troy Millings]

So as far as, like, you mentioned rap, caviar.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

How important is that for artist's career to kind of get on those type of playlists? And how do you even get on that?

[Lecrae]

Yeah, playlisting is. That's another thing is like, there's errors. I'm not gonna say it's not important, but what I will say is it's not as important as it once was. So it's like radio. Radio was once it. Like, if it's not radio, it's nothing. It's not moving a needle. After radio, it was playlisting. Playlisting, was it. If it wasn't playlisted, then it wasn't moving the needle. Now it's social media. It's TikTok, it's reels. You know what I mean? If that's moving the needle. And so if. If you are not connected. Like, I wouldn't even sign an artist who doesn't have a social media following, a platform, you know, because if they're not engaged on social media, what they're telling me is they're not willing to do the work. So it's like, nah, you want somebody to do the work for you. I'm not gonna do the work for you. You're gonna have to work yourself. So now I would say social media. And you got. The beautiful thing in. Where we are now as an industry is the floodgates are wide open. There's. Everyone has equal opportunity, access. Make your music. Your test market is social media. They gonna let you know if it's dope. The only downside is that do you have the 10,000 hours to recreate what you did? And a lot of artists don't have that, you know, saying. It's like 5th just said it on a recent interview that he was going to sign designer, but designer only had that one song. And he was like, you don't know. You don't have another one. I don't have any confidence you can even make another one. And so I tend to look for artists who have. They made it. Once they made it Twice. There's a consistency, there's a pattern of consistency. So if, if one of them pops off, I know they can do it again. They didn't put in the, the manpower in the hours.

[Rashad Bilal]

How the artists that you're looking for.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

Are they all faith based? Faith based, absolutely. So they have to be faith based.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

The other part is that it's a challenge, right? Social media is a challenge because like you said, it's ever evolving algorithm change. How do you keep it authentic without making it corny? Right. When people hear church, they're like, yeah, I ain't come here for this. How do y'all manage to make it something that people want to tune into?

[Lecrae]

It's category, it's categories. So you know, I would say, you know, you got different iterations and different types of artists. So I got some artists who lean into it heavy. Like this song is like a worship rap record, you know what I'm saying? And they lean into it and there's an audience for that and we want them to do exactly that. I got other artists who, they have more of a mainstream presence, you know what I'm saying? And they are more creative, they blend it up. And if you listen, you might not know that's a Christian record. So like my buddy that we signed years ago, Andy Mineo, the song that we had that took off as the number one record, was one of the most streamed and it was viral on social media, was coming in hot. Coming in hot. You know what I mean? Everybody hears the song, right? But Andy's the type of artist that's like, you not gon know he's this faith based artist just on first you gotta like get into his ecosystem to really kind of know where he's at with it, right? So, so it's still, it's clean, it's not negative. And it may not have a message right away, but it's something that still resonates with the, with the broader culture. Then I got artists in the middle where they can go over here or they can go over here. Like my artist, 1k few, he's. He got, he, he's from Atlanta. He got records with Zaytoven, with Honcho, but then he also got records with like a gospel artist. And so he can go in both spaces. And so you just, it's it. I let them be their authentic selves because otherwise it will come off corny.

[Rashad Bilal]

The, to the artists, it's like a Honcho, for example, right? It. When y'all do the record, is it like, yo, with, you know, this is faith based. Or these like, yo, be yourself and we'll do you censor. How do y'all. How do y'all approach that?

[Lecrae]

So the crazy part is I think people kind of cater to where they think you are. Sometimes they overdo it, you know what I mean? Like, they. In their mind, they gotta come in there saying like, hallelujah, you know what I mean? And it's like, yo, yo, yo, yo, chill, chill, chill.

[Rashad Bilal]

That was a Quavo Atlas.

[Lecrae]

It's like, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill. Yo, yo, yo, fall back. You going too crazy. Just like, you know, like, chill. A lot of times we'll have a conversation and we'll just talk about it, talk it through. But it's rarely an issue. It's mostly we try to create the songs that's neutral territory. So it's like, yo, let's talk about, you got kids, I got kids. Let's talk about being a father, being a present father, how we didn't have that. Let's do a song about that. Like, let's not put you in a lane. That's weird for you. And it's going to make it awkward. And I learned that the hard way because I did a record with Big Crit years ago called Mayday Fire Record. But in the record, you know, he's talking about his struggle with faith and wrestling with God and so on and so forth. And it kind of put him. He's talking to this audience that is not expecting to hear this coming from him, right? So they. This hyper religious people got at him and was mad at him and, like, don't talk about this. And why would you do this? And, you know, kind of was off putting to him. So it's like, I'm not trying to put you in no awkward space either. I want you to talk about what you feel comfortable talking about. And then you got artists like Ty Dolla Sign. I did a record with Ty, and Ty's like, bro, I love gospel music. I was raised on it. I want to do this song. I got. I'm gonna write a verse for it. I said, we just want you on the hook. Nah, I got a verse. And for him, he wanted to do that. So it was like, all right, bet.

[Troy Millings]

So what about, like, booking shows and touring? Because I know that's a major part as far as you do that independent or you work with, like, a live nation.

[Lecrae]

How's that work done?

[Troy Millings]

Both.

[Lecrae]

I prefer independent, just because when you have a niche audience, nobody knows them like you do. And if you can understand your audience and your market. You can serve them better. So I've done both, but I like it better doing it myself. That's another thing is like I'm big on touring because that's what I I was fortunate to see, like some of these big crossover rap rock groups, you know, like, you know, a lot of people don't realize a lot of these big rock groups like Evanescence or Paris Earners.

[Rashad Bilal]

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[Lecrae]

More they started off on the Christian side, you know what I mean Creed? Creed yeah, they started on Christian side and and so I was fortunate to see how they move and how they do it because I was over there with them. So it was like oh you gotta tour. And a lot of our artists don't understand touring. So for mainstream hip hop we take that soft money, we go to the club, right? Yeah, they gonna give you 40 bands but they're not really coming for you. They trying to go to the club cause it's lit and then you happen to be there so it's like great. As long as your song is popping you can get a club date but you're not building a fan base. Our club is the church. So if you're doing these church events all the time, you not building an audience, right? They. They come in the church anyway, you know what I'm saying? They come into the club anyway. So you not building an audience, you just capitalizing off of what is already there, that built in audience and it looks good until you don't have a hit and nobody wants to book you for that event. So what we learned was to build our own audience in our own touring. So we started doing our own tours. And you know Tech9, another good friend, you know, I sat with Tech9 and saw how he built his empire, been in his studio, been in his warehouse, and saw what they did and how they did touring and just kind of soaked up some game and. And made sure my artists were touring artists. You got to be a hard ticket artist. That's how you gonna have longevity. I've been doing this 20 years because I built a fan base. A lot of people don't build hard ticket artists, hard ticket fans. So because of that, you know, they don't know how to do it. And that's what happens in hip hop a lot. So I've had big, major, major artists come to me saying, yo, how you do the tour? What do we need to do? Like, can we. We'll get you on the radio. If you can get us touring, teach us the game. Let's trade secrets. And you know, it's just something that rock bands been doing. That's why they tour forever.

[Troy Millings]

So what is the secret to that?

[Lecrae]

The secret is you. You can't be afraid. You can't be afraid to start small, smaller venues, and that's what we be afraid of. We don't want to look lame. We like, Nah, bro. 100 people.

[Rashad Bilal]

Nah, bro, I ain't going out there.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, I ain't doing that. Travis Scott, that's what he did.

[Troy Millings]

Is it financially beneficial to. Because when you go on tour, you're gonna have to bring a dj. At the very least, you have to bring a dj. You're gonna have to bring. It's at least five people that probably kind of have to come with you, right?

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

So if you're doing shows for a hundred dollar for 100 people, let's say you charging them 20, 40.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

From the artist standpoint, they look at it probably like I'm losing money.

[Lecrae]

Right.

[Troy Millings]

What's the point of doing it?

[Lecrae]

Yes. It's two things. One is you're telling a story. So it's branding. Right. So part of that is. Is your story building. You're telling the story. So sometimes you're gonna have to do that. You're gonna have to tell a story that makes people want to come and pay for the next one. So you'll, you know, it's the cost benefit analysis. It's like, this is gonna cost me this. But what's the benefit? And is the benefit going to outweigh the initial cost? And then two, if you can do enough shows, you can break even or make a little bit of money, right? If you do enough of them. Yeah. If you do two shows, five shows, you probably. You gonna lose Money. But if you can, let's say you do 20, it's like, oh, you might break even doing 100 people. But if you do 100 and, you know, you put on a good show, you gotta invest in your show. A lot of rappers just get up there with a DJ walking back and forth on the stage, like, invest in your show. Make it something people wanna see. And then you just keep building it and building it and building. It's like flipping houses. It's like, you gotta buy the cheap house first, put a little bread into it. After you put some bread into it, then you flip it and you sell it for more. Then you take that bread, you reinvest in another one. A little bit more, a little bit more. A little bit more, a little bit more. And that's. It's the same concept with touring, you know what I mean?

[Rashad Bilal]

As you're doing this from an entrepreneurial journey.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

You're learning and growing. But I want it from the spiritual side, Right?

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

Like, that also is an evolving process, for sure. How do y'all. And as a leader.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

And the founder of a company and having artists under you, how do y'all tap into that? Are y'all doing retreats, or is it, like. Because I watched my brother go through seminary school.

[Lecrae]

Wow.

[Rashad Bilal]

And I was like, bro, he's a.

[Lecrae]

He's.

[Rashad Bilal]

He's a pastor now. Study theology. What is that like for you as a leader of your company?

[Lecrae]

I think, you know, I take it back to. We was talking about 50 earlier. The reason why we bought into 5th is because of the authenticity. You really got shot. You was really in the streets. What you rap about, you really live. I think that is of paramount importance for what I'm doing and what I'm building. Is this your real life? Right. And how do we make sure this is your real life? Like, how are we investing in you so that you are spiritually grounded? So when you do get up there and you talk in it, this is not just talk. This is your life. So, you know, part of that includes mentorship. You know, I'm big on that. I'm big on just like, yo, I get in the trenches with my artists and, like, let's wrestle through things. Here's some book. I give them book recommendations. You know, we read through books together. We do studies together. We've done retreats. You know, all of those particular things. And I've just been very privileged, man, living in Atlanta and seeing the inner workings of organizations. I see the inner. You know. You know, me and Andrew Cathy, who. The son of Dan Cathy, who owns Chick Fil a. You know, we've sat numerous times. I get to see the inner workings of Chick Fil A. You know, my homegirl is at Delta. I get to see the inner workings of Delta. And one of the books that I highly recommend that that has helped us and I tell other people is, is 4dx, you know what I'm saying? And. And 4dx is a book that teaches you how to structure your business, how to create, how to, you know, an infrastructure and teaches you, like, sometimes you're so busy working in the business, you don't work on the business. And so if I'm constantly working in it, I'm not working on it. Yo, what does my staff need? You know, what do my artists need? What, what's the needs right now? Because if I'm constantly just cracking a whip and I'm not taking inventory of what they need, you know, we'll do reviews and we'll do Stop start continues. I'll say, well, what do you need to stop doing? Here's what you need to start doing. Here's you need to continue doing. This is what you're doing. Well. And so always constant evaluations. Always constantly working on ourselves. Like you said, the spiritual retreats, the prayer times, the groups. We do devotionals. You know, I see Chick Fil A, they do the devotionals. They do all kinds of stuff like that. So we're just incorporating them things.

[Troy Millings]

So like the Russell and a couple other artists and we interviewed somebody had a platform where a lot of artists now independent there, they're like having a pay what you want strategy.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

Is that something that you.

[Lecrae]

Nah, we don't do that.

[Troy Millings]

You would never do that.

[Lecrae]

I'm not. I understand it. I do think. I do think. I get that. I think at the stage that like la Russell's at, he's in a disruptive stage, which. That's dope. And I salute him for that. You know, I want to work with him. You know, we've talked about doing some stuff. I'm not in the disruptive stage in this state of my career. So at this stage of my career, you know, I got, you know, an office full of employees and multiple artists. Like, I have to think about maximization. You know, I'm not like the lean startup, you know, I'm not at that stage. If you're in the lean startup stage, obviously do some disruptive things, you know what I mean? Because you lean and you can move lean. I got 401ks. We can't play no games. So for us, it's like we have to think a little bit bigger. Now, maybe there's one artist that we can do that experiment on, but as a whole, we can't be that disruptive. We have to move in the flow of business in some senses, you know what I'm saying? Like, where is the business culture going? And you go with the flow. If you're a disruptor, you're going against the flow of where business is to create something different. And. And I've been there, and it's effective. But this is what I always tell people. It's like when you start off your business or your company, you playing golf, right? And when you playing golf, everybody uses the same tool. Everybody gets to hit the ball, everybody puts it in a hole. It's. That's. It's. It's all hands on deck. You can be a disruptor. Playing golf, it's fine. You get a little bigger. As basketball, right? Everybody touches the ball. Everybody shoots. Some shoot more than others, some pass more than others. But we got different roles. But when you get big enough, which is like, you know, it gets very intense. You got multiple employees, you playing football. And when you playing football, everybody can't be the kicker. Everybody can't be the quarterback. Yeah, your homeboys, that's your man. You grew up with him. Y'all was playing golf. It was all good. He can't catch. You gotta have a specialized person who knows how to do that role. And that's when you know it can get sticky and tricky. But you. You have to. To kind of put that hat on and go in the flow of business and say, man, if we gonna do this right, we need the right person for this particular thing. Like, yo, shorty was dope grinding underground. But we need somebody who's skilled in marketing because the budget is higher.

[Rashad Bilal]

This.

[Lecrae]

The. What's on the line is more crucial.

[Rashad Bilal]

You. So let's talk about that. The business culture of hip hop. Really?

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

When you started early 2000s, you said that there was balance.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, Right.

[Rashad Bilal]

What people talk about now is that the absence or the lack of balance. Right. So for every, I don't know, little dirt, who is the next person? Right. There is no common right now.

[Lecrae]

Right?

[Rashad Bilal]

Right. There is for every Ice Spice, who is the Lauryn Hill.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

How difficult is it to now crack through in a space where there's no balance?

[Lecrae]

It's a good thing and a bad thing. To me, I think it's a good thing in a sense that it doesn't exist as much as it did. So people are thirsty for it. So when they get a taste of it, they're like, what is this? This is amazing. So there's room for it. But at the same time, I think as a culture, you know, hip hop as a culture is getting, like, so frivolous and careless that it could put itself in a very bad situation. So similar to rock and roll, right? Rock and roll just got so crazy, like, so off the hinges, it became non existent. It's like you use. You. You drugged yourself to death, you prostituted yourself out to death, and now no one is interested, right? It's like, there's nothing. There's no texture to it. It's gone. And I feel like hip hop is. Runs the risk of following the same pattern as rock and roll. Like, once upon a time, rock and roll was everything.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yeah.

[Lecrae]

Now it's like, who's that? What's rock and roll? So hip hop runs the risk of being like, yo, you prostituting yourself to death. You drugging yourself to death. Eventually there's gonna be no substance to hold onto to, like, even. It's just gonna be a bunch of chaos. And you turn into what my man Tyron calls like, y'all remember them little hands that was sticky? And you see, you know what I'm saying? You just pick up stuff with it. You turn into where it's like, you just like the blob, knowing you don't have no distinction anymore. It's like, you part of country, you part of pop, you part of every. You not your own thing anymore. Like, what is hip hop culture in 2024, you know what I'm saying? Like, once upon a time, it was distinct. Now it's like, it's.

[Troy Millings]

What do you think about artists that, you know, a lot of artists, when they become more spiritual, is backlash.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

Even talking about little Dirk right now. He's in an interesting space right now. Everybody knows how he started as a drill rapper.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

And he's taking a very spiritual turn in his life. Not necessarily his music, but in his life, his life. And he. I'm watching him and he see, he's trying to walk both sides. He's trying to say, I'm a different person, but I'm still gonna make the same music, which is kind of difficult. And now people are criticizing them, like, well, how you gonna be a devout Muslim and you talking about killing people, right? And it's. It's a weird space. And like, some rappers like Mace, they just left, like, he's like. As opposed to try to walk that line.

[Lecrae]

It's like, I'm out.

[Troy Millings]

I'm out. Right. So what's your thoughts on that? Because it's like, it's one thing if you start how you started.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Troy Millings]

There's another thing if you. If you start very secular.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

And then you make a 180 turn, and now people's, like, disappointed. They saying it's not real. They overly judging you for everything now because the expectations are. So that's a very difficult space to be in.

[Lecrae]

I totally agree. I'm a big fan of taking people with you. Right. Like, don't do a hard left on folks. Take them on a journey with you. Because if you bust that hard left, it's like a bait and switch. It's like, I'm different now. And I. And I tell this to a lot of my younger Christian artists. There's a young lady out here. I was just talking with her, her producer last night. She. She's like a New York drill artist, right? She meets God, she wants to change. I started listening to her songs, and it's like, I'm killing the devil with my Bible. You know what I mean? And I'm like, slow down. Because all you really doing is trading in your old ops for the devil. And it's weird to somebody, they like, what is happening right now? This is strange. So I was like, yo, take your people with you. You talk about the story of when you left the club and you was feeling empty, and you was like, I need something different. Like, take us on that journey so we can understand this process that's happening. And we can walk with you down that pathway and say, that's what's up. Like, the song Dirk and Cole did is like, that's. That's a piece that's like, that's. We on the journey gradual. Exactly.

[Rashad Bilal]

We had that conversation. I'm like, great song. Will they go with him?

[Lecrae]

That's what I'm saying.

[Rashad Bilal]

That was like, the conversation. Will they go with them?

[Lecrae]

That's what I'm saying. You. You can't just.

[Troy Millings]

You can't do it just abruptly.

[Rashad Bilal]

You can't. So let's talk about somebody who did do it, though.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

Another guy from Chicago.

[Lecrae]

All right. Yay.

[Rashad Bilal]

Jesus walks.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

Jesus is king.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

Everything in between and after.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

I went to that show by myself. Thank you.

[Troy Millings]

Well, I don't hold. No, I don't think I was abruptly, though.

[Rashad Bilal]

No, no, I'm saying. No, no, I'm saying you're Taking you. Taking them with you.

[Lecrae]

What he's really saying is he's disappointed you didn't go with him. That's what he's really saying.

[Rashad Bilal]

You want to know what really happened? I bought four tickets.

[Lecrae]

Okay.

[Rashad Bilal]

I was like, yo, we were at a complex con.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

And it was kind of like there was a. A panel that was going to happen and like, the concert was going to happen.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

And I was like, I'm going to call the Uber. I got to. I have to see this. Like, I really want to see this. And they. The Uber came and I was like, in it. And they. I looked at them and they like, I'm not coming. I'm like, I closed the door. I went by myself. And I almost appreciated that I went by myself.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

Because if.

[Lecrae]

Did you see the show the Jesus is King? Yeah, No, I didn't see that one.

[Rashad Bilal]

It was emotional.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

Like, it. Because it infused hip hop. It was like the soul to soul, but it was like, sold out. Like, like all that together. And I was like, this is what it should feel like when you come. And then obviously we didn't see anything. Follow up for. I'm. I'm talking about that. That taking them with you. But you. What happens after.

[Troy Millings]

But I'll say this about this, because Kanye probably. I'm probably the biggest Kanye fan in the world.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

Well, you didn't come to that. Kanye fan. Biggest Kanye fan.

[Troy Millings]

Look, it's a few things with this.

[Lecrae]

Okay.

[Troy Millings]

So, hey, I think Kanye was always on that type of time. He did.

[Lecrae]

Jesus walked. Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

But so I don't think that. That's not really. People wasn't really shocked. Okay.

[Lecrae]

This.

[Rashad Bilal]

This is my thing time only because that. That comes right after life after Pablo.

[Troy Millings]

No, no, but I'm saying it's not a completely shot. You're not shocked at Kanye? Like, Cardi's not a gangster rapper.

[Rashad Bilal]

No, no, no.

[Troy Millings]

He's not a drill rapper. Like I'm saying, he always was talking about something.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

So it's not a complete religion.

[Rashad Bilal]

Was part of it.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

My thing with the Kanye thing is that I feel like the. Like when he was Sunday services.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

Like, that was dope. Right? You know, I mean.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

And I listened to the album just because I'm a Kanye fan and the album.

[Rashad Bilal]

You listen to Jesus Kick.

[Troy Millings]

Of course, the album did not meet expectations. Did you. I'm just being honest with you.

[Rashad Bilal]

Did you like now coloring.

[Lecrae]

I did not like Chance the Rapper.

[Troy Millings]

But coloring book, you could say that's like a Christian rap album to Me?

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

In my opinion, that's a dope classic. I think that's a classic album, right?

[Rashad Bilal]

There's good records on there, color. Jesus is king. No, Jesus King.

[Lecrae]

Jesus is king. Water is one of my production.

[Rashad Bilal]

One of my favorite.

[Lecrae]

I love the production. I didn't feel like Kanye was at his best.

[Rashad Bilal]

He's not. Yeah, but that's cuz it. Are we going to go with him? I just. It was tough.

[Troy Millings]

But was it authentic? Was it?

[Rashad Bilal]

That's the problem. That's what I'm saying.

[Troy Millings]

I don't think it was authentic.

[Rashad Bilal]

That's what I'm saying. So like Jesus Walks felt super authentic. It was like, this is different life after Pablo, I'm like, all right, this is. Yay.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

And then Sunday Service started happening. He had taken a sabbatical and it was like, oh, Sunday service. He's okay, I get it. And then Jesus King is like, oh, this is what he's on now.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

But it really wasn't what he was in the moment. He was on that.

[Lecrae]

Right. That's what I. I think that's for. Anybody who first learns something, it's like they want to just. They. They busting everybody over the head with what they just learn.

[Rashad Bilal]

They don't fire.

[Lecrae]

You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's like you gotta take time to let that sit in and let it soak and let it process. How does that manifest in your day to day life? You know what I'm saying? Like, when I first had my spiritual transition, I was coming home to my mom, like, yo, ma, ma, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. She was like, yo, do you talk about anything else? You know what I'm saying? And then my pastor at the time was like, stop talking to her about that and live it. I said, what you mean? He said, cut the grass, wash the dishes. Like, just live out the new joy you have for and love for her. And I was like, oh. So then I just started serving her, loving her, being a good son. She's like, yo, what the happened to you? You know what's going on with you? And it was that transition that she got to see versus me, just. And I feel like that's what I heard on Jesus is King. It was just like, like, you know, this dogmatic, which. We love Kanye for being dogmatic, right? But it was like this don't feel like you done really. You ain't steeped in this yet. It's like you just learning it and throwing it at us. And I would prefer to hear you Talk about how your life looks in that time period, you know what I'm saying? Like, Eminem, a lot of people don't know is a, Is a Christian, you know what I'm saying? But when he did the God, the joint on Khaled's album, you heard it. But he, his content just kind of shifts a little bit, you know, he doesn't talk about the same. Like, I'm not killing people and stabbing eyeballs and drinking my mom's urine and all kinds of crazy stuff, you know what I'm saying? You could just hear, like, you maturing, you know what I'm saying? So I, I, that's, I'm a fan of that.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yeah. What are your thoughts about HOV when we talk about growth and journeys?

[Lecrae]

444 is a grown man's album, bro.

[Rashad Bilal]

Written testimony as well. No.

[Lecrae]

Yeah. Grow. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Like, we need that as. That's the other thing about hip hop. Hip hop don't be letting us grow up. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it just, it, like, forever wants to keep us as kids. And, And I'm like, I think we need a new category or something. We need, like.

[Troy Millings]

Well, I think Nas.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

Has done a great job.

[Lecrae]

He has phenomenal job.

[Troy Millings]

I think Jay has done a great job.

[Lecrae]

Yeah. Killer Mike. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

So I think even like a little.

[Lecrae]

Wayne, like, you know, you.

[Troy Millings]

I don't know if the content of his music has changed, but you see, he's changed. Like, he's doing sports shows now and he's with his kids. Like, he's still Lil Wayne, but he's not the same Lil Wayne in 2002 than he is in 2024.

[Rashad Bilal]

The double cups have been put down, I think.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, hopefully.

[Troy Millings]

Hopefully.

[Lecrae]

That's what I'm saying. We'll drink ourselves to death out here if we don't.

[Rashad Bilal]

Which is true.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

But it was interesting when you were saying that. I'm thinking about what may have killed rock and roll. Right. And like, if you think of we from that era. So, like, when Kurt Cobain takes his life.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

That's a pivotal moment.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

They lost this. This was the group, this was the star.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

But in hip hop, we're losing those stars, like, daily, every day. When we're losing them. The difference in rock and roll is that you're right, they age. And as they age, they're appreciated. They get the tour. We're starting to see that now in hip hop. A little bit. With like, I know what LL is doing. I know he just put out music, but he's Rock the Bells and they. But where's that next generation of people who are going to be able to.

[Lecrae]

Do it, do that?

[Troy Millings]

It's doing it now.

[Rashad Bilal]

No, no, the next generation that's doing it now.

[Troy Millings]

J. Cole gonna be here for a long time. Drake's gonna be here for a long time.

[Rashad Bilal]

But Those guys are 39, 40.

[Lecrae]

Right.

[Troy Millings]

I'm saying that's the next generation. After that, after, after, after J. Cole, Kendrick, you know.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yeah, it's gonna be tough.

[Lecrae]

That's the hard part is that's the.

[Troy Millings]

Little dirt because of the world.

[Lecrae]

And that's the hard part is I don't. I don't know when it pertains to them because labels keep signing these jokers right off the block and they gun is still hot, you know what I'm saying? So they. It's like there's no development, there's no isolation. There's no time to get away from the chaos. It's like your song is a hit like Bobby Schmurda. It's like, yo, you hot. And now you're in prison. You know what I'm saying? Chef G, you hot. Now you locked up. You know, I mean, it's just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, pop smoke. You hot. Now you, now you gone. And it's like, man, we just, we need to insulate them a little bit, give them some gang, like it's something different got to happen. Because they don't even get a chance to. They frontal lobe ain't even closed, you know what I'm saying? They're not even getting a chance to mature and to grow in the process.

[Troy Millings]

Well, speaking about that, because, you know, a lot of that has to through with the home structure.

[Lecrae]

Sure.

[Troy Millings]

And you said earlier in the show, like you didn't see your dad for 30 years.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

So how was that, what was that like, you know, reconnecting with him after a 30 year time frame?

[Lecrae]

I was fortunate to have been through therapy, so Jay actually got me. Jay?

[Troy Millings]

Jay Z. Jay Z. Oh, you know Jay.

[Lecrae]

I met him once. He didn't get me to go by.

[Troy Millings]

Him telling, oh, you listen to. Listen.

[Lecrae]

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But David Banner also told me to go to therapy. And so therapy put me in a place where I was able to meet my dad and say, it's not about what you did, it's about what happened to you.

[Troy Millings]

What happened to him?

[Lecrae]

Yes. What happened to you to make you this way. Cause this ain't just you just being a terrible human being. Something made you like this.

[Troy Millings]

Did you find him or he found you?

[Lecrae]

I found him. I found him, and me and my sister went to go meet him. My sister's. You know, I sit there and I ask him, I say, yo, how you feeling? What's going on? And, you know, he tell me some crazy stories. And then my sister's like, are you proud of him? Are you proud of your son? Like, he's done all these things. Like, do you feel sorry that you wasn't in part of his life?

[Troy Millings]

Has he been following your journey?

[Lecrae]

He hears about it. You know what I'm saying? So he taps in, and when she asks him, are you sorry about it? He says, I never say sorry. That's the sorriest word in the dictionary. My sister's pissed. I'm like, something made him this way. You know what I'm saying? So I just pry a little more. He starts telling me stories about his pops. And, you know, his pops passed away. He's like, my pops went to Vietnam. He came back. I didn't ask him, how you feeling emotionally? And I got out the way, and I was like, okay, this is what's shaping you as a human, and why you engaging us in this way? And he was like, you know, God got y'all. I knew God was gonna take care of y'all. And it's like, got you. I. I could be mad at you for this, but something made you this way, and I don't. You don't have the mental categories of the mental health to even process this information. Right? I do. So for me, it's like, oh, I don't need you to be my mentor in this season of my life. I just need to put my eyes on, you know, a little bit more about myself, and maybe we can connect from time to time, but it's not gonna be healthy until you get some growth and maturity for you to be a part of.

[Troy Millings]

So it wasn't like a Kumbaya?

[Lecrae]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Troy Millings]

He stood firm on why he left.

[Lecrae]

Yeah. He's like, yeah, man, y'all was gonna be straight. You know me.

[Rashad Bilal]

God got you.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, God got you.

[Troy Millings]

Have you stayed in touch?

[Lecrae]

Yeah, we stay in touch. You know, I'll hit him from time to time. He's, you know, he's a very intelligent dude, reads a lot of books, but at the same time, it's like he hasn't done the work on himself.

[Troy Millings]

But how had. How did that Affect you growing up, not having a father.

[Lecrae]

Oh, it's terrible. It was horrible. I didn't even realize how bad it messed me up. You know what I'm saying? Like, it. It made me insecure. It made me, you know, always run to the affections of a different woman to try to feel something, you know what I mean? And then, worst of all, I'm looking for a male figure to be like that leader for me. And the only men who were invested in me were my uncles who were gang members. You know what I mean? So it's like, I'm just out here, like, I'm not a man unless I join the gang.

[Troy Millings]

And you never wanted to join the gang, so.

[Lecrae]

Yes, I did. But probably. I wonder what y'all. I don't know. Y'all personal stories, but probably similar to y'all. Y'all probably are growing up around things, but, you know, internally, like, I'm a little different.

[Troy Millings]

That's not you.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, I call myself a hangbanger, you know, not a gang banger. Like, I'm hanging around the bangers, but I'm like, I ain't affiliated with that.

[Rashad Bilal]

Far from hood, but understand the streets, man.

[Lecrae]

You know what I mean? I'm like. I'm like, this ain't really. So when they start recruiting, that's when it got real for me. When I'm standing on the street corner and some of the OGs are like, hey, the rivals keep coming through here, shooting up. This is Yalls gun. Y'all share it. Something pop off, y'all start shooting back. Now, what we didn't know was week 13. Like, this is them trying to, you know, let the people who not gonna do prison time do the shooting, you know what I'm saying? Like, this is a little manipulative, but we feeling like, oh, they like, this is, you know, like, coming of age, rite of passage. And that moment for me was like, y'all don't see what's happening. Like, I could see it. I could peep it. And I was like, I ain't even mad at these other dudes that much to take their life. And that's when I was like, I just know I got a future. I feel like I got more of a future than this. So, honestly, for the second half of my life, I felt embarrassed and less of a man because I didn't do the prison time. I didn't, you know, join the set. And I go back to the hood, and they're like, what's up, og? And I'm like, who they talking to me and they like, yeah, you put the hood on the map, bro. You did it. Da, da, da. And I'm like, that's crazy because. Because I thought I had to do it that way, and I did it a different way. And, man, it's just a. You know, that's some of the trauma that we deal with as black men, too.

[Rashad Bilal]

But, yeah, in that story, as a young man, the story of you meeting your dad, I hear faith being tested for sure. Over and over again, for sure. Talk about the response to that, because a lot of times we don't know how to handle it when we're being tested. We're not even aware of it till after.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, for sure.

[Rashad Bilal]

Talk about that.

[Lecrae]

Yeah. I think the beauty of my relationship with God and my faith, man, is that I know to whom much is given, much is required, and to whom much is forgiven, much is required. So I know the dirt that I have done. I know the chaos that I've caused, and I know I've been forgiven. So for me to meet my dad, it was like, man, I done been forgiven for so much, you know what I'm saying? And God, if God can forgive me, how can I not forgive this man? Forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean we connected, you know what I'm saying? What it means is I'm not harboring ill will towards you. I don't want nothing negative for you. I'm not holding no bitterness. It doesn't mean we about to hang out in Kumbaya. It just means, you know what? I could be mad and carry this bitterness pill, but I want to get better, not bitter, you know what I'm saying? I want to not. That's not going to help me. So let me love you from afar, you know what I'm saying, and forgive you and move on with my life. And that's just a part of the journey.

[Rashad Bilal]

It's another man trying to get to heaven.

[Lecrae]

You feel me? Yeah, man. Facts. It's like, yeah, he doing what he can with what he got. And, you know, I'm saying hopefully, you know, I'm saying that that. That helps him to see. Like, yo, my son didn't even come at me crazy. Like, he didn't. He came at me caring. I'm not trying to be an enabler either, though. I'm not trying to be like, hey, man, you know, let's just get together, like, because I got cousins who've been in and out of the prison system and on and off drugs, and it's like, I'd have been through that, where I'm like, I'm not putting no more money in books, bro, because now I'm enabling you. You know what I'm saying? You're not trying to get better. You know what I'm saying? But if you trying to do right, get better, I'm. I'm with it.

[Troy Millings]

So what's next? What's next as far as the label?

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

Any big initiatives that you're working on? Like, what's.

[Rashad Bilal]

What's.

[Lecrae]

What's the plans, man? Just for me, you know, it's legacy. You know, legacy is more than. So, inheritance, what you leave to people. Legacy is what you leave in people. So it's like, man, just trying to leave legacy and folks, but also inheritance. I love creating opportunities for other people, man. I want to be my ceiling, be someone else's floor. So obviously, the label, you know, signing. We got a few new artists we signing. I'm putting out new music. Of course. For me, I still put out music. I still enjoy it. Funny that the next single that I'm dropping is a song that was written the hook, and the production was for Kanye, because they thought he was on that. That page, but he. He switched. So they was like, we ain't got nothing. Yo, you want these records? I was like, absolutely. So the records are crazy. The next one, you know, is on the way. And then, man, just, you know, the reason why I was excited to connect with y'all is because I'm big into investing. I'm big into, you know, diversifying stocks, stocks, you know, vc. I'm part of Collab Capital, which is a fund in Atlanta. You know, we raise 50 mil for black entrepreneurs in the city, black founders, and I'm out. For me, I want artists to know you're like, an athlete. You only have a certain window of earning opportunity. So you've got to diversify when you're at the peak of your earning, you know, capacity. And so there was one point in time I'm still doing great as an artist, but there was one point in time I had a number one album in the country. If I was. If I would have just lived like that for the remainder of my career, I wouldn't, you know, So I just. Learning how to invest, educating folks. That's a big piece of what I'm. What I'm about now. So I'm always even, you know, flexible. I'm always telling him, like, you don't work for me. I'm your client. You know, saying, I want all my artists. I want all My employees to see me as a client. You're an entrepreneur. This is your, your thing. I'm your client. You're building something. You know, use what I have to build whatever it is that, that you feel like you need to do. And so yeah, more of those types of things, man. That's really what my. Where my headspace is.

[Rashad Bilal]

Oh, dope.

[Troy Millings]

Well, how can the people stay in touch as far as you know, website, Instagram, all of that.

[Lecrae]

Make sure you tap in with me, you know what I'm saying, at Lecrae. L E C R A E Social media. Follow me, I'll take you somewhere. You know I'm saying catch me probably at every invest fest in the future. Too easy, you know what I'm saying? Yeah man. So just stay tapped in.

[Troy Millings]

Have you done anything with like you talked about like church? Have you done anything like or the collab like any like the mega churches?

[Lecrae]

Not necessarily, you know what I'm saying? Like I've done like interactions and certain things like that where we'll partner on a few things. I partner with Experian to do some financial literacy programs. And you know, obviously we, we targeted some churches for that. My pastor, he was actually a financial advisor, so he's on Instagram as a stewardship coach. And you know we, we got some talks about doing some stuff. Cause he's pretty big church in Atlanta as well. And that's why I knew about that series. Seven and a whole nine.

[Rashad Bilal]

Okay, Smart man.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, but, but yeah man, just you know, I just want people to be educated, especially our people. And if, and if, if, if a portion of our people are in the churches, how do we disseminate that information to them?

[Rashad Bilal]

You are the probably the, I mean easily the most well known faith based hip hop artist. Who do you see out there right now that's like I like what they're doing that signed to you and I signed to you. Like they're the next one coming up.

[Lecrae]

I mean I think everybody has different iterations and different like aspects of what I do or what I see that I love. You know what I'm saying? So I think you know, like I said, my guy 1k fuse, the streets love him, you know what I mean? He's able to connect with the streets and the culture and the church in a way that I feel like I was able to do. You know, my guy Hovi's the artistic capabilities and blending all that together is incredible. But the person that I see like is like, oh, this dude gets it. Is my guy kb and you know, he, he was signed to me but you know, he gets it so much. He's like, nah, I'm gonna do my own thing now, you know, Started his own clothing supply company so he like does fulfillment for other artists, you know, because he learned that game and he, he just, he gets it and I'm like, you get it?

[Rashad Bilal]

You know.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

Thank you for joining us, brother.

[Lecrae]

Absolutely, man. It's.

[Troy Millings]

Appreciate it, man.

[Rashad Bilal]

Appreciate you.

[Troy Millings]

Thank you guys for rocking with us. We'll see you next week.

[Rashad Bilal]

Peace.

[Unknown]

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