← Earn Your Leisure
Earn Your Leisure
Jermaine Dupri On Being Part Of 400M Records Sold, Changing Hip Hop Forever & Never Getting Credit
01:29:50
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Sponsor/Ad Voice
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Jermaine Dupri
When Kris Kross came out, the entire rap game was 20 plus years old. These niggas was 11 and 12. Nobody told me about them. I found them at the mall. They weren't even rappers. If I get a song that go along with the way they look, these kids is out of here. I knew that.
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Co-host 1
Do you feel pressure to continue or you know that you just have this natural gift to create, songwrite and mold artists?
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Jermaine Dupri
Babyface told me that that's cool, that little jump record you got, but how many times can you do that? That stuck with me forever. So all I've been trying to do is just continue to keep making baby Face. See, I could do it again.
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Co-host 2
What's the craziest publishing check you ever got?
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Jermaine Dupri
Once you start selling records like that, everybody know the money's there.
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Co-host 2
So you was getting, you getting all
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Jermaine Dupri
the money, the talent that I had, nobody else had.
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Co-host 1
I don't think people. People recognize the marketing genius that you
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Co-host 2
are and would you ever sell your catalog?
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Jermaine Dupri
If you buy his catalogs for 500 million and you go broke, you can sell it for 500 million and it's not going to depreciate. It's just going to keep going up.
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Co-host 1
There's no doubt in your mind that this is a win.
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Jermaine Dupri
You get in a fight with, you got to know who you fighting with. AI can't do what you just did. You could sit there and prompt it, but it's like ultimately you're just telling AI to find something that somebody already did. All right, guys, welcome back.
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Co-host 2
Special episode Earn your leisure.
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Co-host 1
Yeah. Yeah.
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Co-host 2
Atlanta. This is our Atlanta home. So it's only right we had to tap in one of the greatest, most influential people to ever come out of the city of Atlanta. The one and only Jermaine Dupree. What's up, my brother?
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Jermaine Dupri
What's happening?
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Co-host 2
How you doing, man?
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Co-host 1
To be the greatest producer of the 21st century.
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Jermaine Dupri
That's what they say.
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Co-host 1
No, that. That you are the greatest producer of the 21st century. Like, let's not, let's not sugarcoat this.
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Sponsor/Ad Voice
There we go.
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Co-host 2
Nah, you know, it's crazy. It's the first time we actually had like a sit down conversation. But we've been around each other. You've done invest fest for us before, came to invest fest. So this is a conversation definitely looking forward to having as far as to, you know, just hear your. Your perspective on the music business from the artist side, from the producer side, from the label side, from the CEO side. I think you have a unique perspective. You're like Bill Russell, player coach. Like, you know, like, you actually wore like both sides of the things. I'm not. There's not a lot of people I think, that have that perspective from. You're an artist, but you're a producer, but you're an executive and you're a CEO. So it's like you, you know, you played in every, every position.
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Co-host 1
And I'm thinking about it now, like, how many people have we seen had a consistent run for 40 years.
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Jermaine Dupri
Not that long, but yeah, close is this. I mean like early nights. 30, 30, 30, 30, 30. Somewhere in there. I mean we 40 though. I mean we here now.
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Co-host 1
I'm thinking crisscross early is like 9, 90, 90, 92. 92. Yeah, yeah, we getting there. Yeah, yeah, we getting there.
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Co-host 2
Yeah. So, yeah, looking forward to it, man. But yeah, thank you for joining us once again. Appreciate it. So let, let's, let's get into it. As far as longevity. He started with that longevity, right? Like, what do you think has separated you from other people in the space as far as being able to stay relevant through different decades and changing from working with Def Jam to being an artist, being a producer, working with Usher, you know, like, how have you been able to, to maintain relevancy for so long?
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Jermaine Dupri
I mean, I think one is because I was super young, you know, when I came in. I don't think people really realized how young I was. So the first 10 years of people paying attention to me, almost five of them years, I wasn't even legal, you know what I mean? Like, hopefully, you know what I'm saying? So it was like, it was, it's, it's, you know, half of that, Half of the, we talking about half of the 30. That's what I'm saying. Half of it. The first 10 to 20 years is like I'm, I'm a lot younger than a lot of the other people that was like doing what they got to do. So it's almost like I get extra, you know what I mean? I get an extra, I get a couple extra years from them just because, you know what I mean? I was thinking about that when I was like, I, I was go see Teddy the other day and when, when I started idolizing Teddy Riley. Teddy Riley was already grown.
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Co-host 1
Yeah.
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Jermaine Dupri
You know what I mean? At least I thought he was grown anyway. Right. So. So I was idolizing him as a teenager, you know what I mean? As like, so I was, I'm a late teenager, but I still was a teenager. And I was just thinking about that, like a lot of these guys, they like 24, 23, 24, 25 years old somewhere in there. That's where they was kidding off at, where I became a millionaire at 19. Okay. Right. You know what I mean? So I was like 16, 17, 18. I was trying to get to that space.
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Co-host 1
It's interesting because this is going to take you back maybe. I don't know if you remember this. Maybe I don't think people recognize the marketing genius that you are going back to 92. Because we grew up in it. Like, literally growing up. Hat to the back, close to the back, Crisscross to the point. You had the Sega Genesis crisscross game. I'm thinking, like, at this time, where are you getting this marketing savvy from?
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Jermaine Dupri
Well, I mean, a lot of that stuff was it once the marketing started as far as, like, doing, like, sub deals with. With Kris Kross, I wasn't involved with that as much as I was as far as creating a group. And I think that's also something that kept me in the space because I was also a guy who was like. I was only focused on. I mean, still to the day, I'm only focused on what I believe I know or what I believe I can move, you know, move the needle on. I'm not trying to just put my hand on things just because I could put my hands on it. Right. So when Kris Kross came out, I had this joint situation with my dad where I would just like, pass every group that I found, let him manage the groups or whoever they manager was if somebody else had to manager. So I was always like, just like all of that stuff, y' all deal with that. I'm trying to make sure that this group is what they supposed to be and that they continue to be what it is.
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Co-host 2
Speaking of Teddy Valley, you know, he has spoke about that he didn't get paid from the Keith Sweat. Then I think him and Keith Sweat had a conversation. But that leads to a broader that I have. As far as business. Can you explain the business side as far as how do producers get paid? Because you got the publisher, you got the masters, but you also a songwriter also. I forgot to mention that. So there's a lot of moving parts. Like, if I write a song for somebody, am I automatically included in the publishing? Or what's the percent? Is that negotiable? If I produce a song, do I have to get some of the masters? Am I entitled to some of the publishing? Like, explain how that works.
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Jermaine Dupri
I mean. Well, if you a writer, the publishing is yours. The. The whole. Whoever writes the songs that stay published.
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Co-host 2
100.
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Co-host 1
Yeah.
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Jermaine Dupri
I mean, supposed to be. It's supposed to be.
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Co-host 2
That's supposed to be.
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Jermaine Dupri
What happens is, you know, it's guys out here that. That understand the game, that knew the game, that, you know, that's a little bit faster talking than a lot of these other people. And they. They. They know what the publishing situation is. They know what that means. Right. And then you got artists out here that like young kids, like I said, like, even my age, that when I was someone like 16, 17 years old that don't have no money, right? Like, I wasn't, I was actually one of them kids. We was talking about this the other day. Like, I was born to like crystals and eat, and I had like 99 cent. You had to find like pennies in your house and you have to like, go eat. So it's like if somebody come and they offer you $20,000 and this is how you actually living. You like $20,000 and you're not actually thinking about the publishing because you ain't made no money running anyway, right? So this is the first time somebody show up like, yo, let me. If you sign your publishing over me, I'll give you $25,000. That sounds like a deal. Because you don't, you don't actually know what. You ain't never seen a publishing check to know what it actually is. Right? So when, when people start talking about publishing, it just sound like something that's like far away. Right. But like, I'm not knowing. Yeah, like not knowing. As soon as you write a hit record, it's. It's right there.
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Co-host 2
Like, can you give us an example? You got a lot of them?
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Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, I mean, like. Well, I mean, like, you know, as far as, like I'm, I'm, I'm 100% writer.
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Co-host 2
Right?
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Jermaine Dupri
Right. So like, say for like Kris Kross first album or Kris Kross all of the album I wrote with the first album, I wrote everything on the album and produced everything on the album. So therefore you, you know, that's a hundred percent. I like, Therefore I get 100 of every piece of the pie that's coming when it's publishing. Right? So that's what I'm saying. So as soon as crisscross sold 2 million, it was a million dollars at my door.
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Co-host 2
A million dollars.
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Jermaine Dupri
But they sold two. They sold, they sold 2 million records like in like two weeks just from publishing.
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Co-host 2
It was a million dollars?
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Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, it was a million dollars already. Like, it's. Because once it's like they say it's in the pipe, they call it like, you know what I mean? It's in the pipeline. So once you start selling records like that, the money, the people, everybody know the money is there. So then people just start showing up like, yo, I give you, you know, I mean, if you. Let's do 50 of your publishing, we give you a million dollar advance. That's what advances start. Because they, they can see, they can
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Co-host 1
see the money they looking at the future trajectory now.
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Co-host 2
Let me just follow up on that because Ryan Leslie told us something. It was like you have to hire a publishing company to track down because he's like, even overseas, like, they'll be playing your music, they'll be distributing the music, but if you don't know like that the music is actually moving, then you can actually lose out on money. So there's like publishing companies that. That's their job to like track down.
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Jermaine Dupri
Yeah. So I mean, like, like with me. So that's what I'm saying. So when I signed with, it was called EMI at the time, but it's not Sony Music Publishing. I signed with them when I was 19, maybe younger. Yeah, yeah. Probably somewhere around in that 19, I'd say 19. And what you do, you sign over, you basically do a 50, 50 deal with them and they give you this advance. And that was the first million dollars that I got.
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Co-host 2
Oh, from the advance?
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Jermaine Dupri
Yeah.
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Co-host 2
What's the craziest publishing check you ever got? Like years later, like from a Mariah Carey record or just some crazy, like it just came in the mail?
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Jermaine Dupri
I mean, vary. Because like I said, once it, once it start, it's just, you know, you might get 800,000 one day, you might get 250,000 the next week. It's just. It is never like the same. The same number. It just continue to be like all different number this here and there. So I mean, you know, at the most you like. I mean, you can see a lot. It depends on what, you know, it depends on. Like I said, it depends on who administered the public as well as who's out there going to get the money. So it's like three different companies that people use. They bmi, ASCAP or csac, I think. And I think there's a couple other ones, but these are the ones that I know, like Brian Cox is with C Sec and I've been with. I've been doing ASCAP since I was, you know. Yeah. Almost 16.
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Co-host 1
To give me my asscap or get your ass capped. So I mean, this is. You write. You write the hits, right. You got the album. Do you feel pressure to continue or you know that you just have this natural gift to create songwright and mold artists. Right. Like after the success of the first one, is it we got to get the next person right away or was that always the plan inside of the vision of what Social's death was going to be?
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Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, I don't, I don't talk to nobody. I'm just Talking to myself. So I don't know, you know, I mean, the plan is, I guess, however I'm feeling at the time. But I never, I mean, you know, I, I, I wrote music based out of not having right. So say, for instance, like, like I said I was so young that I didn't even have access to people to be like engineers or anything. I just was like in my room in my house and I'm like, I want to do this, but I don't really have no access to like, you know what I mean? The only people I noticed from the music business is my, my, the people that my dad know. So I go around these people, but for the most part, they not young. They older. Yeah. And I was thinking about this this morning because I, somebody, somebody sent me a post about Living Color. And I was Isaac Hayes third. He sent this. And I was, and I was looking at it and I was sitting there in the bed looking at this thing. It was like nine in the morning when he sent this message to me. And it was a guy on there that's talking about how crisscross. And for a second I, I went into a whole nother space. Like, I didn't do it right. Like, yeah, because I'm like, you don't actually really be like, you don't understand how much you can actually do or how crazy you can do something when your head is down and you just completely focus, right? And that's all I was, I was so focused on trying to make them pop that I wasn't even paying attention to the rest of the world. You know, you like, oh, Atlanta. Playing the record. We popping in Atlanta. But when you see somebody say that this was happening across the world and they whole school was dressed backwards, you like, I'm seeing this now. And I'm just like, man, this shit is crazy. So it's like, yeah, I mean, that's just, that's been the goal, to answer your question a long way. It's just like I always just wanted. I started writing and I saw that I could do it. But it's also like once you do it once I had. Babyface told me this when I was mixing like a crisscross record. He was like, you know, that's cool, that little jump record you got. But it's really like, how many times can you do that, right? And that stuck with me forever. So all I've been trying to do is just continue to keep making Baby Face. See, I could do it again in my mind.
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Co-host 1
That's what I'm thinking, right as I'm watching as a young kid and becoming a teenager in the, in the mid-90s, I'm thinking, like, New York. Puff is doing what he's doing. Def Jam is doing what they doing. Death Row's doing what they doing. And you got, you're like, everybody's watching each other, saying, oh, they doing. They got a hit. They got a hit. I gotta, I'm gonna make it hit up. That's how I'm thinking it's happening here in Atlanta. LaFace is doing what they doing. Babyface is like, oh, that's cool. I'm gonna make another hit. And it's just. And that's just like an influence. But you're like, my head was down just trying to create.
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Jermaine Dupri
Yeah. I mean, I was just like, I'm just, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm. And I'm. I'm also not knowing, but feeling like the talent that I had, nobody else had. And then when you, like, look at it today, there's nobody that people compare me to that's ever done what I did with Crisscross.
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Co-host 2
No, like, explain that. Explain that.
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Jermaine Dupri
I wrote Earners.
- [17:10]
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- [17:43]
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- [19:39]
Jermaine Dupri
I found them. First of all, nobody brought them to me. Usually with artists in the industry, somebody your man or somebody come and tell you about these kids, right? Nobody told me about them. I found them at the mall. They weren't even rappers, right? They weren't trying to rap. They didn't have no demo. It's just two kids that I identified, as you just said, could be artists.
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Co-host 2
These kids look like stars 100%. They didn't come up to you or nothing?
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Jermaine Dupri
They didn't come up to me. They was walking around the mall and I was watching them and I'm like, why? They just had this aura about them that the girls in the mall was trying to get at them. You know what I mean? I couldn't understand it. It was like I was. I wasn't grown yet, so I thought I was cool. But then I seen two little that was younger than me that felt like they was way cooler than me and I was like, this can't be serious, right? So. So when you look at that, right? That's what I'm saying. I found them, took them to my house and start trying to create what people like now, talk about. So I. You know, so when I say that, I'm saying, like, we don't have nobody else in the business that has a story where they found the artist, then they wrote all the songs, and they produced all the songs. Like, and they told them to put their clothes on backwards.
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Co-host 2
Oh, yeah. That was your idea.
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Co-host 1
Yeah. Yeah.
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Co-host 2
So you was like, that stylist, too.
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Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, that's.
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Co-host 1
I'm saying that's the marketing part.
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Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, that's what you was talking about.
- [21:03]
Co-host 1
Yeah. Because I'm like, I remember going to school and trying to do it and then going to the principal's office and them telling me, like, you got to change your clothes back.
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Co-host 2
What made you tell them with the clothes backwards?
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Jermaine Dupri
Well, I mean, at that time, we was trying everything, you know, Like, I had blonde high top. You know what I mean? I had Cut Survive, brother. I had it's Kwame nose ring. You know what I mean? We was out here trying to do everything to be seen, right? They weren't. But I was right, because that's what the era of hip hop that I came from. And at the same time, I had Left Eye from tlc. They hadn't even got signed yet. So left out was at my house when I was actually trying to develop Kris Kross the most.
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Co-host 2
The. Before tlc.
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Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, before tlc. And she always was on the left eye shit. Like, her whole thing was like, put the condom over one eye. That was like, her thing always, like, she was at home cutting jeans up and doing, like, all kind of, like, artist development stuff. So being around her doing that, it just made me just start thinking of things all the time. So then Chris, they would come to my house, like, after. And one day, Chris came to my house. He had this jumper on. It was just so big because that was also, like, we was in so much oversized clothes back then. It was like these pants was like, triple the size of what you're supposed to wear. And this jumper was so. It was like. The jumper was so big. I'm like, yo, you should flip the jumper around. And he's like, why? And I'm like, I don't know. You should just do it. It ain't gonna bother you anyway. Cause it's so big you could turn around without doing it. And he did it. And I was like, let's go to the mall and see if anybody, like, pay attention to. And we went to Lennox, and it's like people was flipping out. And I was flipping out. Like, I can't believe that y' all Acting like this. Cause this ain't nothing. Like, he just turned his Jesus around. It's like, why y' all acting like this? So once I saw that, it was just like, oh, I gotta get a song. I ain't had jump when we did this. So I'm like, I need a song that fits this look. If I get a song that go along with the way they look, these kids is out of here. I knew that you were right. So, I mean, that's. You know, and that's. That's the thing. I was having the same conversation with Steve Stout the other night, because I was trying to tell him, like, people be comparing me to Puff, and they compare me to this person, and they compare me to that. And people. Sometimes they hear me respond and they think that I'm being overly cocky, right? And I'm not. I'm trying to explain exactly who and what I am. But, like. Like, even when you gave my introduction, you left out the part of my songwriting. People be leaving that out. Like, they don't like. You know, it's. They talk about so many other things. I. I love it. But, yeah, the cream of the crop when it comes to PRI is that I'm 100, do everything. If. I mean, I'm talking about as far as the.
- [23:58]
Co-host 2
Right. Oh, we. That's you. Are you more passionate? Are you more passionate about writing or producer?
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Co-host 1
You know what I said greatest producer. But now I'm thinking, are you more
- [24:08]
Co-host 2
passionate about writing or producing?
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Co-host 1
Maybe greatest songwriter.
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Jermaine Dupri
I mean, I write songs that. I mean, I write. I write. All right, Songs.
- [24:17]
Co-host 2
But we can go to Confessions, right? And to me, that's my favorite R B album of all time.
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Co-host 1
That's the greatest RB album of all time.
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Jermaine Dupri
Never know Thrillers. Okay, Andrew. I mean.
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Co-host 1
Right. I understand why people say Thriller. And yes, I think Thriller has an argument to be one of the greatest albums of all time. I'm just saying for R B, like, what it means and what it is. That's the greatest body of work that I've ever.
- [24:48]
Jermaine Dupri
With us.
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Co-host 2
Yeah.
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Jermaine Dupri
To us.
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Co-host 2
We didn't grow up on Thriller. No disrespect to Mike Jackson, but we didn't grow up on Thriller. We grew up on that. So that was more. That's impactful.
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Jermaine Dupri
Okay. Yeah, but I'll take it. But I wanted to ask, because if you go there.
- [25:01]
Co-host 1
But if we go to Confessions, I feel like we missing a decade of a lot. You know what I'm saying? Because before you have Usher fur. Well, Puff has him, then that doesn't Work. But he comes to you, and in my way, he's created. People forget that piece of it because that talks about artist development. Because obviously it's Chris Koros, but it's also the Brat, right? Then Escape, then my way, like, developing talent that nobody knows. Writing the songs, introducing us. I'll be honest, when people talk about Atlanta, we talk about Rushmore. They always talk about artists, like rappers, but, like, there's no Atlanta sound for me. I don't even know Atlanta music. If I don't hear you and Big together, I don't see Brat in his videos, and it's like, oh. And then outkast comes. So the importance. Talk about this moment in time in Atlanta where you're introducing a sound to the world. Really?
- [25:58]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah. Like I said, I don't actually know that I'm actually introducing it to the world. I just think I'm trying to make music for Atlanta. You know what I mean? I'm just trying to get out of here. I'm just trying to do what I'm trying to do, but I'm down like this. I'm not even looking up. I'm not even thinking about it. I'm just thinking, like, you know, how can I make this work?
- [26:19]
Co-host 1
What's out of here, though? Because I'm thinking, after Chris Frost, Brat becomes the first female rap artist to go platinum.
- [26:27]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah.
- [26:27]
Co-host 1
Are we not out of here?
- [26:28]
Jermaine Dupri
Nah. I mean, well, you should be, but. But the stigma of being from the south and being from Atlanta was so strong in hip hop that it diminished the success of what you're talking about.
- [26:43]
Co-host 1
Okay, okay, okay. That makes sense.
- [26:46]
Jermaine Dupri
You know what I'm saying? So it's like you. If I was. You know, I said this on the Breakfast Club one day, if I lived in New York.
- [26:53]
Co-host 1
Yeah.
- [26:54]
Jermaine Dupri
I'd be the king of music. Who called me the king of music?
- [26:58]
Co-host 2
So you don't think it was.
- [26:59]
Jermaine Dupri
No.
- [27:00]
Co-host 2
You think that it was because of Atlanta that you. That it wasn't elevated the way that it should?
- [27:05]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah. It's like, you know, you gotta think. Like, when I created the Brat, I didn't create Brat, but once I found Brat and I put Brat out in order to get press to come to Atlanta, to even interview her and talk to her, I had to pay for niggas from New York to come to Atlanta. Like, n. In New York, Russell ain't paying for press. I'm paying for press. I'm paying for people. You know what I mean? I'm flying people to Atlanta to do interviews in Atlanta, as opposed to us getting on a plane and going to New York. You know what I'm saying? Cause I'm trying to keep it in the city, but there's no outlets in Atlanta at this time. You know, IN94 was, you know, we had Arnel Starr. That's like American Rap Makers. That's that guy in Atlanta. But as far as somebody that was like a publication or source or any of that, none of that shit was here in Atlanta. So you lose ground because the other people that you in competition with, they could just walk outside and go down the street. You know what I mean? So they can have a listening party and everybody show up. I have a listening part. I gotta do it in a time where everybody can fly to Atlanta and they got time to come to Atlanta to actually do it. You know what I'm saying? So that's what you're dealing with. That's what I was dealing with as a. You know what I mean? Even as a CEO, like, when we talk about Jermaine Dupree as the CEO and so. So def. A lot of the conversations about my company is lost because of the south, because people weren't even here to actually see the amount of employees I had. The office, this. That nobody's seen this activity because it was happening in Atlanta.
- [28:51]
Co-host 1
But is My Way the record now
- [28:53]
Jermaine Dupri
that
- [28:56]
Co-host 1
I'm out of here?
- [28:57]
Jermaine Dupri
No, still.
- [28:59]
Co-host 1
Because you Make Me Wanna. Is. Is that your first unborn?
- [29:02]
Co-host 2
No.
- [29:03]
Co-host 1
Okay.
- [29:03]
Jermaine Dupri
No, no. Jump was my first. My first number one. You Make Me wanna is the first male record from a male R B artist that I ever wrote, though.
- [29:18]
Co-host 1
Okay.
- [29:19]
Jermaine Dupri
I never did no other male artist before that song. And that song was no More.
- [29:23]
Co-host 1
Yeah, that's a big one.
- [29:24]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Like, that's. And by the way, this is just what I'm saying. You make me want 100%. Nice and slow. 100%.
- [29:32]
Co-host 2
So, okay, I mean, everybody that you wrote for and produced for wasn't on your label. But the people that was on your label, if you own the label and you're getting the masters, and then you write the music and you get in the publishing and then you produce the music. So you're getting all the money.
- [29:50]
Jermaine Dupri
They don't get all the money. But what else is there to get you? I mean, by the way, you. You get.
- [29:55]
Co-host 2
You get it.
- [29:56]
Jermaine Dupri
You get. You get a significant amount of coin.
- [29:58]
Co-host 1
A large.
- [30:00]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, you get. You get a significant amount of money. You don't. But you don't get all the money. But I'M saying at the same time I, you know what's funny with me is that when I be hearing people talk about contracts, understand the third, the contract states what you get. When I'm saying the contract don't state you gonna get jerked. The contract states exactly what you get. That's why you supposed to give your contract to somebody and let them look over it and then you give that contract back to the person that you talking to and it's supposed to say what you want from that person.
- [30:33]
Co-host 2
Well, what's your thoughts on that? Cause I always feel like for the most part there's no such thing as a bad deal. Because people sign a deal in that moment. You needed $100,000, it saved your life. But when you sell a million records, just like, damn, I got jerked, I sold my masters for a hundred thousand. Well, if leverage, you wouldn't have done that.
- [30:51]
Jermaine Dupri
Well, first of all people that I think the conversation about selling your masters, it's never a master conversation initially, right? If you was coming up in the 90s and you was just getting signed to a record company, it wasn't no, no conversation about masters that was even thought. That's not no conversation. Because masters ultimately you, you, you're not thinking about that. You thinking about publishing, you think about production, you thinking about trying to get your records heard on the radio, right? The mastering thing came into one, into play like with Master P, no limit, cash money. And these guys even like Jay Z, Jay Z, them signed to Def Jam after they still was, you know, they was running around New York and nobody was signing them, but they still did did a deal with Def Jam, you know, I mean they own their masters, but they still was trying to get into these labels. It was like everybod still was trying to get into these majors. Masterpiem was the only people that was like independent. I mean and J Prince, they was the only people that was like, we don't want to be inside these record companies. But I feel like they got that, they felt like that because of how I felt. You don't have no support in your little hometown, right. If you in these little bitty ass towns, I mean, when Atlanta felt like one of these little towns, you don't have nobody supporting it. It's nothing that every time I did something or every time I do something, I gotta call somebody and them that this is gonna happen. Like, you know, maybe I should come down to Atlanta and catch me. I'm going down the street in my Ferrari doing 100, you know. Yep, you might Want to see this? Like, there's money in it. You know what I'm saying? Like, you couldn't. Like, it wasn't nobody, like, telling people, so who's your. This leaves are really doing this.
- [32:38]
Co-host 2
Who's your mentor? Like, if you, if you didn't have any blueprint to follow at such a young age, you running a company, how did, how did you know what to do?
- [32:47]
Jermaine Dupri
You don't. You just, you just was winging it. Yeah. You don't know. You.
- [32:51]
Co-host 2
So you didn't have no mentors at all?
- [32:52]
Jermaine Dupri
No, I mean, you know, I got people that I. I mean, Russell Simmons, Andrell recipes, these people, you know, I mean, I'm following them. I'm. I'm watching them come afar. Yeah. From a photo. I don't know. I know nobody telling me nothing. You know what I mean? Like, no, it's, it's, it's all.
- [33:10]
Co-host 2
Did that lead to making a lot of mistakes?
- [33:12]
Jermaine Dupri
Probably, but I don't, you know, I don't know what the mistake.
- [33:14]
Co-host 2
You know, something like in business, like, when you got more seasoned, do you realize, like, oh, damn, now I shouldn't even have done that that way? Or I gave up too much money?
- [33:23]
Jermaine Dupri
I think that, I think that, like I said, I think that me staying away from people kept me from making dumber mistakes because I actually wasn't doing what they was doing. You know what I mean? I actually was just doing things that I thought people was doing and then find out that that wasn't what they was doing.
- [33:42]
Co-host 2
You didn't have a negative to path following. That's actually a good point. A lot of times people only look like if you don't have a mentor, but you got a negative mentor too,
- [33:49]
Co-host 1
and they can lead you down.
- [33:50]
Jermaine Dupri
You got a bunch of people that tell you, yo, you should do this, you should do this. And if you look at what they
- [33:55]
Co-host 1
did, they ain't really work.
- [33:56]
Jermaine Dupri
They ain't work.
- [33:58]
Co-host 1
Shy growing up. Something that I think is interesting. You wrote for a lot of people that weren't signed to your label. Aja comes to mind for sure because he wasn't signed, but the relationship feels like he's a so, so deaf artist, but he's not. Was there any, like, conflict in that where it was like, you know, this guy is the guy. I know he's going to be a gu work. I'm gonna write for him, but he's not officially signed, or was it just like, let me help elevate this guy's career?
- [34:26]
Jermaine Dupri
At first, I feel like I was in that mode, it was a little conflict between the Face because I was promoting Usher with so so Death. So if I did things in the city, it would say, you know, Jermaine Dupree, Social Death party, hosting my Usher. And then I get a call from the Face like, yo, yeah, Russia. And I signed the. So. So, damn.
- [34:53]
Co-host 1
But you're on the first two singles, right?
- [34:55]
Jermaine Dupri
So the Make Me Want Free song. I'm saying I'm thinking about the video the Mile Away. Like, your voice is on.
- [35:01]
Co-host 2
You're there.
- [35:02]
Jermaine Dupri
I'm writing all them songs. Oh, that's all me. So, I mean, it's not. But I'm saying they gave me Usher with that same mentality. I was told, take Usher and do what you did with Kris Kross and don't bring him back till you feel like you got that. That's what they told me. And Usher came to my house in College park, and he stayed out there, and he basically was living in my house. And we got to know each other like brothers, and we made my way.
- [35:28]
Co-host 2
Well, how do you feel about that? Cause that's something that Don Cannon had actually said to us. They had some level of frustration with Lil Uzi, and they, like, nobody knew that he was signed to them because he was only wearing a Rockefeller chain. They're like, well, we gave you a chain, too.
- [35:44]
Jermaine Dupri
What's up with that?
- [35:45]
Co-host 2
Yeah, and even Jack Harlow, I didn't even know that he was signed to them. So how do you feel, like, from an executive standpoint, can you understand frustration if, like, damn, I'm investing in this artist and he running with a different camp?
- [35:57]
Jermaine Dupri
I can. Because LA and Babyface are not from hip hop. Right? They not cut from the cloth that I come from. So therefore they don't. At that time, they didn't understand what me telling Usher to be a part of a camp was anyway. Like, I wasn't looking at it like the name. I was looking at it like he was part of my crew, right?
- [36:21]
Co-host 1
Right.
- [36:21]
Jermaine Dupri
In hip hop, that's. That's what we. That's how we move, right? It's like, if y' all tell me to come to a party that y' all got going and y' all name all over it, I don't care if y' all name all over it. I'm rolling with y'. All. Cause we supposed to be crew, right? So it's like, that's just how my mind was thinking about it from that perspective. They was thinking about it from, like, a business, you know? Like, Usher looks like he's on. So. So depth. Cool. It's working. So. So Depp is actually moving around the city more than you guys are. You. You need him to look like this because the last record didn't work. And I don't think that. I think that at the time, they weren't paying attention to that. They weren't paying attention to how much in the culture that I am or was at that point in time.
- [37:06]
Co-host 1
Yeah. And so, like, he's not on the label, but are you now seeking more talent? Because I think, like, right at that time, Brat might be putting out her second album. Are you trying to add more talent to the label because of that? Like, here's the success of somebody I'm writing for. Let me get somebody in house as well.
- [37:22]
Jermaine Dupri
No, because I'm trying to find. I mean, every time I make a project still to this day I'm just like, okay, this is that I gotta find something else. So I wasn't even gonna look for, like, if I'm writing all Usher records or producing Usher, I'm not getting ready for try to bring another male artist in there because then I'm gonna start competing with myself, even though I did that. But it was a male group, so I signed Jagged Edge. They was. They. They weren't like Usher.
- [37:48]
Co-host 1
That's a. We got. I wanna. I wanna talk about classics. I told be Coxis, but JD Hardbrick, one of them. One of my. We'll get to the classics.
- [37:57]
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- [39:31]
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- [39:44]
Jermaine Dupri
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Co-host 1
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Jermaine Dupri
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- [40:30]
Co-host 2
so
- [40:31]
Jermaine Dupri
because I, I'm an R B guy, huh?
- [40:33]
Co-host 1
I'm on music. I'm asking that because I, I I'm the kid who was in the CD store when Life of 1472 comes out. Money ain't thing.
- [40:42]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah.
- [40:42]
Co-host 1
So now like you're the artist. So the person that used to is writing the songs, producing the songs, curating the talent. Now you are the talent. What was that transition like?
- [40:57]
Jermaine Dupri
It wasn't even no transition because I'm writing songs so much at this time period that that people would hear songs that I was writing and be like yo, you should just keep that. And I'm like no. So I write a song and I rap on the song and I'm just doing it for fun. Because this is also an exercise that I'mma go back. This is also an exercise that I was thinking about this morning when I looked at the crisscross thing, the crisscross exercise that I had to go through to even get crisscross to the place that they are in living color was that these kids was regular neighborhood kids, right? They was listening to rap music that wasn't from Atlanta. So Ice Cube and whatever else was out in 91, 90, whatever. And no artist from Atlanta, by the way. We had bass music, but it wasn't nobody that was like that had come out and had a number one record that was actually looking like somebody that was going to be a superstar in Atlanta, right? So all of the inspiration and motivation for rap and hip hop was coming from LA and New York. So I write them a song and they'll be like, nah, nah, that ain't it. And you got 11 and 12 year old kids telling you, Right? And I went through this for a year of them not liking what I was writing for them. And I'm like. And I had to start really like understanding that once I get them to like what I'm doing, I done got good or I done got better than I am. So I was writing so much, I'm writing so many songs. And then one day I wrote this song called Little Boyz n the Hood and they set up on the seats and they was looking like, oh, that's our song. Like, it felt like it was theirs. It felt like I had got to a space. I saw that energy and I was like, oh, okay, I'm getting close. So I start paying attention to what I did when I wrote that song and how I kept writing. So what I'm saying is I'm writing so much much as just a rapper. I don't know what I'm gonna do with these songs I'm throwing away because they don't like it, whatever it is. So in that same process, I go into Usher, I go into Brett. I mean, I write Escape album. I'm writing so many songs and then so it's just stuff that's just sitting around. I'd be rapping and I start writing songs that don't even be songs that come out. I'm just in the house making stupid songs. So I wrote this song called Jazzy Hoes that actually was on Life in 1472. But I did the verses of Jazzy Hoes over shook ones because I ain't had no. I went, I wasn't making the music. I was just like, I'm just gonna rap. But I had. All I like is some jazzy holes. I put the hook on on shook ones. And I put on like we had little mixtapes or whatever. I put it on like a mixtape. And my friends was like, yo, you should do something with that song, man. That song. That's. That's. We want that song. People was asking for it. So then my. So it was just like, I did another song like that. I did another song like that, and it was just like Throwaways. I wasn't even, like, serious about it. People was like, yo, you should put out album. And I'm like, I don't really care to put out an album. And it's like, you should do it. And I'm thinking like, oh, it wouldn't take nothing for me to put a record out. I'm doing this already. I got like five songs already. I could just put somebody on the songs. And that basically was what it was. It wasn't even like, no pressure. It was just like.
- [44:40]
Co-host 1
Like, I'm throwing.
- [44:42]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah. Like a. Of breathing. Let's. Let's just put it out. So, yeah, when you.
- [44:49]
Co-host 2
When they talk about the top hip hop labels of all time, I don't think so. So DEF gets the full recognition or, you know, they kind of left out of that conversation a lot. When you talk about Bad boy Death Row and then, of course, Cash Money, why do you think that that is
- [45:09]
Jermaine Dupri
one? It ain't no bad shit that's ever been said to even have a conversation, right? Like, none of my artists, they ain't sued me. None of my artists want to fight me. My art is still working to this day. You know what I mean? It ain't no badness in the mix of it. One, which it shouldn't be. But hip hop is bad. Hip hop is driven by bad shit, right? And the more bad shit is the people that you hear about in hip hop, as opposed to the niggas that ain't doing the bad shit. But then, like I said also, I'm so Atlanta, right? I'm not. I'm not the guy that's, like, I'm saying I'm from Atlanta just to be saying it. I'm the nigga that's out here that's been fighting for this city. Before LaFace was in Atlanta, before. You know what I mean? I was here. I've been here doing this. And I feel like I really, really carry the energy of Atlanta. Look how long it took Atlanta to actually become what Atlanta is today.
- [46:14]
Co-host 2
Well, do you also think that maybe it's because, like, the roster doesn't include a franchise player? Like a top ten. Like. No, no, no, listen. Like a top ten artist of all time. It's like that boy has Biggie, Tupac, and even Cash Money had, like, There was no like. Yeah, there's no like one.
- [46:34]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah. So that's. I'm sorry, I gotta answer. Like, ultimately what happened is also is that the powers that be thought hip hop was supposed to be that. Right? The powers that be thought hip hop was supposed to be Tupac, Biggie. This person. This person. Right. All of them is 25 plus. Right. So. So death is under the age you were Younger.
- [47:04]
Co-host 2
Younger, Right.
- [47:05]
Jermaine Dupri
I'm the person that created this Y N. Yeah, yeah. Because when I.
- [47:13]
Co-host 1
When you said franchise player, I'm thinking
- [47:15]
Jermaine Dupri
like, yo, Bow is a first time player. Mount Rushmore, greatest rappers of all time.
- [47:22]
Co-host 1
But I'm thinking like, in the sense. Because my rebuttal would have been like, is he not one of the biggest artists of all time? He is. Is he still touring? He is. Is he still showing out shows every year? He is. Is he still acting? He. How many guys have done that?
- [47:38]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, yeah. It's not even about that. It's really. Like I said, what? What people. This is another thing what people don't discuss is what I brought to hip hop. I brought youth to hip hop.
- [47:52]
Co-host 1
Yes.
- [47:53]
Jermaine Dupri
When Kris Kross came out, the entire rap game was 20 plus years old. These niggas was 11 and 12. I was 19. Right. You had never seen nobody, teenagers or not even teenagers, with a number one rap song. Like, we talking about top 100. I'm not talking about R and B. I'm talking about the top 100 crisscross. 11 and 12 years old at the top of the music chart.
- [48:23]
Co-host 1
Not. And not in that way either. Like, very. Com. Like you said, pop, like a number one record pop chart. Because I'm thinking like, there was a youngster Shyeen, but they ain't had money.
- [48:34]
Jermaine Dupri
They didn't get close. Not even.
- [48:36]
Co-host 1
No, no, they did.
- [48:36]
Jermaine Dupri
I'm admitted. I'm just saying. I'm saying this for the people that's listening. Not even close.
- [48:43]
Co-host 2
That's an interesting perspective. I never thought about like that. So you wasn't even trying to play in that realm of what I need, the biggest adult you was your realm. Was I. I got young artists.
- [48:53]
Jermaine Dupri
No, I'm young. I don't mind you. This is what I'm saying. I'm so young. I don't know these old, Lance.
- [49:01]
Co-host 2
Oh, so they was old too.
- [49:03]
Jermaine Dupri
That's what I'm talking about. I don't know these. I don't know. That's old. I don't. How would you know what I'm saying? I'm 19, I can't get in no club in Atlanta.
- [49:10]
Co-host 2
Okay.
- [49:11]
Co-host 1
So you're really at like, you. Whatever's happening in Atlanta is what, you
- [49:15]
Jermaine Dupri
know, I mean, whatever's happening where I can go out, you can't go nowhere. So, like say for instance, like when I did Kris Kross album, we went to Philly because they were signed to Roughhouse. And Roughhouse, you know, that's what Schooly D, DMX was signed to. Roughhouse, the Fugees, Cypress Hill. And it's a label there, a studio four. Roughhouse Records was record. They recorded in the studio four. So we, we went to Philly to actually record the Crisscross album. I'm in Philly trying to go out and go around and see things and blah, blah. Now, if I was like 21, 23, 24, 25, I probably would have found whoever. Steady B or whoever was in Philly, right? Because I'm trying. I'm out in the streets. They got a club in Philly called After Midnight, right? I'm so hip hop, but I can't get in. I stand outside the club just so I can listen to what niggas is doing in the club. They won't let me in. Cause I'm not 21 years old. But I'm standing outside. I'm looking at the niggas, the clothes niggas got Bubbles, Goose Lee, we in Philly. And I'm just soaking up all of this energy. But what I'm saying is I'm too young to actually participate in what the rap game looked like at 92 got, you know, right? So therefore Kris Kross sell 8 million records. It don't even get. It don't even translate in the world that you talking to. Because them niggas ain't selling 8 million records. And they don't even want to talk about it because they supposed to be the pillars of rap and it's these 11 to 12 year olds. So then they start trying to make it seem like young niggas ain't supposed to be in rap music.
- [51:00]
Co-host 2
Discredited.
- [51:01]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah. So they try to discredit, you know what I mean? Like, that's what starts happening with Jermaine Dupree. And you start having people try to say, because I'm young and the people around me is young, that this music is not rap music. That's what.
- [51:17]
Co-host 2
That's an interesting perspective.
- [51:18]
Jermaine Dupri
That's what really happened.
- [51:19]
Co-host 2
Let me quickly follow up on that. So where do you place the label in the history of label? Because you got Bad Boy, you got Rough Riders, you got Rockefeller you got. Got cash money. You got no limit. You got.
- [51:31]
Co-host 1
Where do you.
- [51:32]
Co-host 2
Where do you place so so Death in. In the history of. Of living?
- [51:37]
Jermaine Dupri
I mean, it's right. It should be in the conversation. It ain't. Nope. I mean, you know, I ain't put out a bunch of artists that didn't sell records. It's a couple of them labels. You just named them. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm just saying, like, if we were. When we listen, we. By the way, I'm super competitive because of this. How I had to come on. I've been fighting forever. Right. But no, I'm saying ultimately, if we look at it like I got things that happen at so so Def that did not happen in any other label. Like no female artist sold a million records before so so Death fact that automatically should put so so Def in the top five of hip hop labels that you can talk about. Because as all the females that rap right now, all the solo females, that's out. Lil Kim, Foxy Brown, Cardi B. Brat Set to pay.
- [52:39]
Co-host 1
True.
- [52:39]
Co-host 2
She was the first one.
- [52:40]
Co-host 1
First one. And there was female rappers too.
- [52:43]
Jermaine Dupri
I mean. No, see, don't now. So people listen to this. They don't. They don't because they listen stupidly. Listen, Salt and Pepper was out. Out.
- [52:51]
Co-host 1
Yeah.
- [52:51]
Jermaine Dupri
As a group.
- [52:52]
Co-host 2
Yeah.
- [52:53]
Jermaine Dupri
I'm talking about as far as one female solo, a solo female artist coming out and selling a million records.
- [53:01]
Co-host 2
Yeah.
- [53:01]
Jermaine Dupri
Albums.
- [53:02]
Co-host 1
It wasn't hurt if you in it Waggle Plato. No, no.
- [53:06]
Jermaine Dupri
I. I don't know. It might have. It might have.
- [53:08]
Co-host 1
Yeah.
- [53:08]
Jermaine Dupri
But not out the album.
- [53:11]
Co-host 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a lot. That's a lot.
- [53:13]
Jermaine Dupri
So brat was 19 when this happened.
- [53:16]
Co-host 2
What year was that?
- [53:17]
Co-host 1
90.
- [53:18]
Jermaine Dupri
94.
- [53:19]
Co-host 2
94.
- [53:19]
Jermaine Dupri
So I'm saying she's under 21.
- [53:23]
Co-host 2
So you started the YM.
- [53:24]
Jermaine Dupri
You started the YM. 100%.
- [53:26]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
100%.
- [53:26]
Co-host 1
Thanks, J.D.
- [53:27]
Jermaine Dupri
yeah, 100%.
- [53:30]
Co-host 1
Trying to reverse the course.
- [53:32]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [54:05]
show comes from public. The investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETF with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures
- [55:07]
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- [55:35]
Guest/Other Podcast Host
This week on Point game with me, C.J. toledano and Isaiah Thomas. It reacts to the Celtics losing Game 7 to the Sixers. Take a listen.
- [55:43]
Jermaine Dupri
You know what really the difference was Joel Embiid. Like that was tough and who expected that? Exactly. And they didn't. They probably going into preparing for the Sixers. You didn't think embiid was going to play and then when he did play, you probably didn't think he was going to give you what he gave you the the Sixers. So it was. I mean it was tough.
- [56:02]
Co-host 2
Like you're up 3:1.
- [56:03]
Jermaine Dupri
You got to win that. Like no, there's no ands if buts are bout it. You're up 3:1. You gotta find a way to win one more game to move on to the next round.
- [56:14]
Guest/Other Podcast Host
This has been brought to you by DraftKings. The Crown is yours. Point Game with Isaiah Thomas and CJ Toledano releases new episodes every Tuesday on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to download the DraftKings sportsbook app now and use Code point game to claim your profit boost. That's code point game to get a boost every of the NBA playoffs in partnership with DraftKings. The Crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-SET NEW YORK Call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny Connecticut Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org on behalf of Boothill Casino in Kansas. Wager tax pass through May apply in Illinois 21 in most states. Void in Ontario. Restrictions apply. Bet must win to receive bonus bets which expire in seven days. Minimum odds required for additional terms and responsible gaming resources see DKNG co Audio limited time offer.
- [57:07]
Co-host 1
So the youth movement in itself brings me to that next phase of your career. Obviously, after the soul thing, the Bow Wow era. This is before we get to Bow Wow. When is the moment that you feel like you've made it? Because then the Bow Wow thing sets off a whole nother.
- [57:24]
Jermaine Dupri
I didn't feel like I made it until I did money. Anything, really.
- [57:28]
Co-host 2
Yeah, that's interesting.
- [57:30]
Jermaine Dupri
And that, that, that's because I could finally go to New York and hear my records on the radio out of here. You know what I'm saying? That's. That's when I felt like, oh, these really with me now. Like, okay. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? But my whole focus was like, I. I wanted the song on the Clue tape. I wanted to be the first nigga from Atlanta to have the first song on the Clue tape. Like, these are the things that matter to me, right? So when me and Jay made money that called Clue. Soon as the song was finished, I'm like, I'm getting the first song on your tape.
- [58:05]
Co-host 1
I meant the lot.
- [58:05]
Jermaine Dupri
And he was like, what, the placement?
- [58:07]
Co-host 1
Yeah.
- [58:08]
Jermaine Dupri
If he was in that first five songs, that's a nice shit. Like, I promise you, I got the first song on the tape, and that's all I cared about. Even with my album. I didn't care about if it went gold, platinum. I just wanted to have that. If I get the first song Clue mixtape, then that means I'm hip hop. You know what I mean? Because everything else was that was supposed to be the hip. That's the. That was a bible at the time for what was happening in hip hop.
- [58:33]
Co-host 2
For sure.
- [58:33]
Jermaine Dupri
Right? For sure. So, yeah, so that's, you know, I'm come niggas calling me to perform at the tunnel. You know what I mean? I'm like, yeah, okay. So I did. Girl, I'm saying, so I did Crisscross Bus. I did Escape. I did the Brat under the Usher. I ain't never got called to go to the tunnel. I didn't want anything. Now I'm performing in New York. It actually was the. The Sleeping In My Bed remix first.
- [59:09]
Co-host 1
All right, let me just hit your hand on that one. That's.
- [59:13]
Jermaine Dupri
That's one of the ones that. That started. That's what introduced me and Jake.
- [59:17]
Co-host 2
That.
- [59:18]
Jermaine Dupri
That Sleeping in My Bed remix is what basically started moving that needle.
- [59:24]
Co-host 1
That's a big one. That's a big. So that.
- [59:27]
Jermaine Dupri
This is not.
- [59:28]
Co-host 1
This is. Is that the first time you're like. Cause you and Brad are going back and forth on that.
- [59:33]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, well, we did it on Funk Defy, so her first single album. We was going back and forth. But that's when I started, like, saying, let's do it more.
- [59:41]
Co-host 1
Yeah.
- [59:41]
Jermaine Dupri
And Sleeping in My Bed was the beginning of us, actually. Every time you see Brett, you see me type, and then, I mean, you're
- [59:47]
Co-host 1
still doing R B, right? Because you said je. Heartbreak. That's like 99, I feel like. And so there's a.
- [59:52]
Jermaine Dupri
There's a.
- [59:53]
Co-host 1
Like, a few years in between where it's like, JD's just writing songs, he's performing.
- [59:59]
Jermaine Dupri
There's this.
- [59:59]
Co-host 1
There's a second album.
- [60:01]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, second.
- [60:02]
Co-host 1
Second album comes, and then, like, this. The Bow Wow. Talk about the moment that this happens, because this is now 106.
- [60:09]
Jermaine Dupri
In part.
- [60:09]
Co-host 1
TRL is the thing, seeing artists. You know, we didn't have any music bias. Rap City was a thing, but TRL was like. And then we got 106. And at the same time, you're bringing this new artist to us. Talk about the discovery and, like, the moment that this thing just went haywire.
- [60:27]
Jermaine Dupri
I mean, Bow Wow was designed, right? So Bow Wow basically was like. He came from my friend Steve Prudhomme. Him. He signed him, and he signed him to Epic, right? And so Epic was upstairs on Madison, and I was.
- [60:47]
Co-host 2
You know.
- [60:47]
Jermaine Dupri
And so. So Death and Columbia was downstairs, and they called one day. I think Ron Sweeney was, like, the president of the company, and he called, and he's like, you know, J.D. wants you to work with this kid that we got that.
- [61:02]
Co-host 1
That's your pocket.
- [61:03]
Jermaine Dupri
And I'm like, all right, cool. Let me. I mean, I'm saying. So I go check them out. And they. You know, they telling me that he was signed to Death Row. That's the kid that's talking on the Snoop Dogg album. They giving me the whole spill, and I'm like, all right, cool. I wasn't really into it because I also felt like I couldn't. I'm like, I don't. I don't believe that. Lighting on the strike twice. And you know what I mean? I don't believe it.
- [61:28]
Co-host 1
You're getting older and he's younger.
- [61:30]
Jermaine Dupri
No, crisscross.
- [61:32]
Co-host 1
Yeah, you did that.
- [61:33]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah.
- [61:34]
Co-host 1
I'm saying from a standpoint where like, you're 19, they're 11. Right. But now you've gotten older and this kid is.
- [61:39]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, he's 11.
- [61:40]
Co-host 1
11, yeah.
- [61:42]
Jermaine Dupri
So, yeah, we. By the way, I'm not. So I'm out of the teenage era and I'm starting to think like, these old. That was speaking before and full. I can't push them out. We might want him to sell. So I'm like, I don't know about this, but it's my homeboy Steve, by the way, Steve was the guy who gave me my first million dollars at emi. He left EMI and went to Epic. So me and Steve just. That's my brother. So he telling me, jd, I'm telling you, Bow Wow got it. You can make him a star. And I'm just like, it ain't as easy as it, you know, as y' all think it was or whatever it is. And I started thinking about how long it had been since I put Kris Kross out. And that was the only thing that actually made me do it. It had been 10 years since Kris Kross. So therefore I kept looking at the fact that young kids didn't have a group for the last six years. I'm like, they don't have no music. Like, who actually is servicing the 11 and 12 year old generational people out here with music? Kris Kross has been that. That's what they were. Chris. Chris start getting older, they start smoking weed, they start turning into these old nice.
- [63:01]
Co-host 1
Tonight's tonight.
- [63:02]
Jermaine Dupri
That's a slap on record. That's a good record. Well, it ain't really slap on good people that mean they. They, you know, but like what I'm saying, they got older, they started making. You don't want to make records like tonight. Be more in the mix. So they. They are moving away from this audience where these people are still kids. And that's the only thing I could pay attention to. And I still wasn't really totally sold. So then one night, me and Jay Z had a show here in Atlanta. Well, I had a show here and I think it was a V103 jam or something like that. And I had Jay Z Come and we did money and thing, and I introduced Jay to Bow wow backstage. And while I was on stage, Bow Wow kept saying, let me rap. This ain't even playing. Like, I'm like, fuck, no. Like, you're not about to get up and come out, so I don't know what you gonna do, right? So then he just kept doing it. He's on the side of the stage. He kept saying, let me rap. So I'm like, okay, listen. So I got it on mic, and I'm like, yo, I got this little kid on the stage that keeps saying he want to rap. Then ho starts saying, yeah, let the little nigga rap. Let me see what. So everybody started pushing me to let him rap. He came out and the DJ put a beat on, and he was like, nah, stop the beat. And his demeanor of how he told the DJ to stop the beat at 12 years old just wasn't regular. Like, it just wasn't Matter of fact, it was 11. It wasn't even like. It wasn't like, Kris Kross. Kris Kross. I taught them everything that they knew about hip hop. This kid did this without me telling him to do anything. He was just like, yo, stop me. And he said, watch this. And he started rapping acapella to the crowd. So he already knew, like, they ain't gonna hear me on the beat, right? They need to hear me. And he start rapping acapella to the crowd. And the crowd was all adults. And they start, oh, shit. Oh, shit. And I'm like, oh, you know, this always happens with kid. So I'm still fighting it. I'm like, yeah, okay. But I still had to pay attention to his demeanor. His demeanor was just, like, different. And once I started realizing, okay, Bow Wow actually is a rapper this time, I actually have a person who wants to be a rapper. Kris Kross was like, rap that shit. Like, they was actually thinking, like, they was talking, like, rap was whack. Like, they want to do something else, like go to the mall instead of rap. That's what they thing was. Bow wow was straight. His mentality was just like, I'm gonna be the best rapper ever. And I remember I started writing songs to him, and the first song I wrote for him, it wasn't that good. He ain't love it. The same thing was the same process. And then I started figuring. I started thinking, like, maybe I can't. I'm not the greatest rapper writer for this. So I'm like, brat, help me write this rap, right? And then me and Brat Wrote Bounce with me, but Brat raps faster than me. And she from Chicago, so she got this. You know, her style is different. And she wrote the whole verse about putting the hand in the net. Like Vince Carter. She wrote that whole rap, right? And when I heard her do it, I'm like, this little. Ain't gonna be able to do that. And he heard it, and he was like, y' all leave me here. I'm gonna. I'm gonna have it done when y' all come back. And we left him at the studio, and when we came back, the song was done bouncing me, and I was just like, oh, okay. You might. You might really be something. So then I. Then. Then at that point, once it clicked to me that he could possibly be something, then that's when my mind started thinking about the marketing, which.106 and park didn't exist at this point in time. This is a big, controversial conversation that I had with Ray Daniels about the 106 and park thing. 106 and park didn't exist. When we created Bounce with me, I kept watching trl, and I'm saying, listen, we don't have this space. We don't have a space for artists like Bow Wow. We need this space, right? We know Stephen Hill. We need to go talk to Stephen Hill, and let's try to come up with our own show. They come back with the 106&Park. After we had this conversation. 106&Park was at the Apollo the very first time. It was the first time Bow Wow performed at that very first 106 in park. The first time the show ever was talked about, and it was at Depaulo. And he killed it. And that's why I named him Mr. 106 apart, because he's been. He performed at the. The birth of that show and became it. Yeah. And became. You know what I mean? And. And this was. You know, when the show first came on, the voting process was a real process before the labels got involved and started trying to not understand how Bow Wow was, like, so dominating every day, one by one, there was a real process, right? So Bow Wow was winning, like, he was killing every artist on one of the single part. And people couldn't understand that. And it was like, finally, we have a space. We have a space that's like TRL for black artists. So that was, you know, I mean, that was all something that happened. I don't know if 106 in part, would have popped off if it weren't for Bow Wow Fair.
- [68:38]
Co-host 2
He played A major part play. Major part.
- [68:41]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah.
- [68:41]
Co-host 2
Well, Bow Wow. Because then he becomes a movie star.
- [68:44]
Co-host 1
All.
- [68:44]
Co-host 2
He just becomes a global sensation. Right. Like, you obviously had experience from working with kids in the past, so that. I'm assuming that helped you with Bow Wow, right?
- [68:55]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, but, like, it's a different entity altogether. It was like night and day, though. Bow wow was an artist. Chris, and Chris was just like. They were like sponges. So he was harder. No. Yeah. Well, he actually told me he didn't like Kris Kross. He was like one of them type. Like, he was like. You know what I mean? He was trying to be a rapper.
- [69:13]
Co-host 2
Like, his result. Yeah, but his own identity.
- [69:15]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, he was trying to be in. You know, and he was really on the. Like, Snoop. No, he was really like that. Like, he was like Bawa. First name was Kid Gangster. So the mentality of the kid that you hear on that Snoop Dogg album is really Bow Wow. Like, he's a bad little kid that thought he was a gangster rapper or thought that's what he was gonna be. And he wanted to be in that space. He didn't actually want to be. He didn't want to do jump. He wanted to be.
- [69:43]
Co-host 2
But you had to educate him of, like, no, this is the pathway to go.
- [69:46]
Jermaine Dupri
No, I had to make songs that fit his character. Right. So I had to start, like, paying attention to actually who he was. Right. So the whole thing was like, in Bounce with Me video, when the dog is coming down the street and he transforming, I had to, like, start thinking about, this guy wants to be like this. He not want to be like this. So, Jermaine, don't make him, like, crisscross, because that ain't who he is. You got to let him be who he is. And you gotta. You know, you gotta put your. Put your arms around what he got going on and how. How you gonna make. Because, I mean, the key to writing artists for artists, to me, is that you always have to do something that sparks their attention. And if you understand that and you do things that make them want to do it, you're going to get a better product.
- [70:37]
Co-host 1
All right, this is a. This is a tough question for you, but you're the only person that can answer it. You led right up into the 2004. Think of this year in terms of your career as a songwriter. Is 2004 your greatest year as a songwriter? Or is it 2006, emancipation of Mimi, that confession time when you got four number ones, or 2006 when you. I mean, I can't even Count how many number ones happen. Which was the best years for you as a songwriter?
- [71:10]
Jermaine Dupri
I think probably. I don't even know what year it was, but I had 1, 2, and 3 and I never seen that before from Confessions. No. Oh, I was. It was. Bow wow and Sierra. It was. I think We Belong Together and I might be Shake It Off. It was one like. Because whatever year. I think we'll shake it off because We Belong Together kept Shake it off from becoming Mariah's, you know, 18th number one record. So, yeah, it was that. Right. But it was like they were stacked like that. I had never seen her ever. And I was just like. Like, you know, God damn. I actually made t shirts like 1, 2 and 3. That was. That was. I think that was my 3. Because I, you know, that did to you. You'll never believe that you can do that.
- [72:00]
Co-host 2
Like two and three.
- [72:02]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah.
- [72:03]
Co-host 1
I'm asking because confessions in 2004, you had. There's four number one singles.
- [72:08]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah.
- [72:09]
Co-host 1
Which is. I mean, how many albums do that?
- [72:13]
Jermaine Dupri
Not a lot, actually. It was. It was like. Yeah, four, I think. Yeah.
- [72:19]
Co-host 1
My Boo Burn.
- [72:21]
Co-host 2
Confessions.
- [72:22]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, yeah. By the way, my boo was left in the trash.
- [72:27]
Co-host 2
Or that was that. He wasn't gonna put that on the album.
- [72:29]
Jermaine Dupri
No, it wasn't on that LA lift that off the album. It was on a repackage.
- [72:33]
Co-host 1
Yeah. The dust.
- [72:34]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
I went to that tour twice.
- [72:36]
Co-host 2
Yeah.
- [72:36]
Jermaine Dupri
Just because he left that song off the album. He didn't like that song.
- [72:41]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Earners, what's up? Look, let's face it, most guys just power through pain and strains. But the smart move is taking action early before it turns into something bigger. That's where a physical therapist comes in. They can assess what's really going on and create a plan tailored specifically for you. And physical therapy isn't just for recovering after an injury. It's about staying ahead of them, building strength, improving movement, and supporting longevity so you can live life, life on your own terms. To learn more and find a local physical therapist, visit choosept.com support for the
- [73:15]
show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets, which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index, and lets you back Test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures@oppenheimer, we're
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- [74:45]
Co-host 1
This
- [74:45]
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- [75:18]
Co-host 2
When you was writing confessions, did you know this is going to be like life changing? Like, you know, I thought Vegas was
- [75:27]
Jermaine Dupri
going to be mad at me because I was telling like you were telling your, your truth. Yeah. But I'm saying I'm telling it in a way that a man's telling on himself.
- [75:36]
Co-host 2
Like, oh, they thought he's like dirty Mac. Like you.
- [75:39]
Jermaine Dupri
Like not even dirty Mac. You just. Why are you exposing your vulnerability, this stuff to women to start thinking that that's how we think? That's what I was believing was gonna happen.
- [75:51]
Co-host 2
So you, you was really just right. You just writing. But it's, it's done in a way. It's like a, it's, it's a, it's almost like a story album, right? Where it's not just a regular album. Like, it's, it's. So when you. Because Usher with. Did you have a conversation with Usher? Like, yo, look, this is what I'm gonna put on You. Because that's a lot for artists to take on. Like, it. No, he just is like, all right, I trust you. Whatever you want to do.
- [76:14]
Jermaine Dupri
I mean, what else I'm saying, like, Confessions was like. Like, it wasn't even. No idea about Confessions. I actually got a writer's block, which don't happen a lot, but I had caught writer's block, and I left the studio. And when I left the studio, I'm driving to pch, and when I'm driving down pch, I took the beat. And when I'm driving down pch, I'm looking at all the things that I'm saying in the song. It's like the size of the Kaiser Soze. Like. Like, it's like that. Like, if I wouldn't have been, like, on third leaving Babyface studio. So I'm guessing that's third going to Los Angeles. So it's like third in Los Angeles. So you sitting right down the corner. I was at the light, and the Beverly center was right here, like, right. So the music is playing. Right. And if the Beverly center wasn't there, you wouldn't even hear that in that song. It just happened to be right there. And that's what I. That's just. I'm just writing, like, I'm looking and I'm like, damn, I'm at the Beverly Center. Like, man, not giving fam. Who sees me.
- [77:13]
Co-host 2
Oh, so that wasn't a true story.
- [77:15]
Jermaine Dupri
No, I'm looking at the Beverly Sun. I'm just right inspired by what you in.
- [77:18]
Co-host 2
Oh, so that was all just you. There wasn't truth to that. I thought that was like, you was actually going through these things in your real life.
- [77:25]
Jermaine Dupri
Part two.
- [77:26]
Co-host 2
Oh, Part two.
- [77:26]
Co-host 1
That's what I'm saying. Confessions one. We heard Confessions two before we heard Confessions one.
- [77:31]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, yeah, that's also la. Left one off. Hold on, hold on, hold on. But there's also it. Don't you see what I'm saying?
- [77:39]
Co-host 1
Because we heard Confessions too, first and then when.
- [77:41]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, but. But what they did was they put. They put part one verse at the beginning.
- [77:47]
Co-host 2
Video.
- [77:47]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, the video to go into part with the headphones. Yeah. So you could start hearing it. So. But. But every time I was in la, I was with my ex girlfriend. All of that is like just me thinking of what people think.
- [78:00]
Co-host 2
Because. Because I feel like that whole album is with the. Like, a lot of the songs are. It wasn't like that wasn't. It wasn't just the one song. It was a concept album of somebody that went Through a breakup, that somebody was up a bunch of times.
- [78:16]
Jermaine Dupri
Like, that was a coincidence.
- [78:19]
Co-host 1
The biggest coincidence, and I don't know if it's part of the marketing, is that at the time, because he's fresh off of 8701 till he's in the video. This is his girl. There's a breakup. Here comes Confessions. That's why they broke up.
- [78:32]
Co-host 2
That's what everybody thought. Everybody thought that that was a real story that Usher. That Usher went through.
- [78:36]
Jermaine Dupri
It had nothing to do with it.
- [78:37]
Co-host 1
Oh, we ran with that.
- [78:39]
Jermaine Dupri
She had nothing to do with that. Like, it was just like, yeah, that. That. That's what I'm saying. I'm playing on it too. Every time I'm in la, I'm with my ex girlfriend, I'm playing on. You know, he got a girlfriend, right? So I'm writing it like that, but I'm not thinking about. It's not about her. And that whole story of like. Like, that part of the song had nothing to do with that.
- [79:02]
Co-host 2
That's what it's made for. I want you back like so many. So I remember all of those songs. Like we was listening to it and I was like. I think I was in college when that came out. And I remember these girls was talking about it and they was like, really having a debate of like, yeah, I should. I mean, I can't believe he did all this shit.
- [79:16]
Jermaine Dupri
Everybody was convinced.
- [79:17]
Co-host 2
Everybody was convinced that that was his real life and he was just documenting. That's why it was so impactful. Because it was like people was going
- [79:25]
Jermaine Dupri
through that and it was like, damn,
- [79:27]
Co-host 2
somebody of his stature is actually going through it and it's relatable.
- [79:31]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, it was all coincidence because if the beginning of Usher's album, he wanted to do an album called Real Talk, basically, and that's what it was. So I think all of the producers that was. Outside of everybody trying to write songs, they was trying to write songs that was like Real Talk, basically a man actually having Real talk. So what that actually did, was it like. Like one song was their version of Real Talk. And my songs was the Confessions. And it just started feeling like it all was like a glue of, like, blending in, all talking about the same thing.
- [80:05]
Co-host 1
Whose idea was it? Because this is very rare that what happens. And this is why I think it's one of the. It is the best R and B album of all time. Some people might argue. I think TP2 could be in the conversation. There's some other ones who decided not to make superstar singles.
- [80:20]
Jermaine Dupri
I don't know. Right.
- [80:22]
Co-host 1
Because that's. I feel like that song has lived on maybe even better than some of
- [80:27]
Jermaine Dupri
the songs on the album. Oh, yeah. I mean, all. I mean, I think. I think all of them, like Bad Girl.
- [80:34]
Co-host 2
Bad Girl.
- [80:34]
Co-host 1
They made it in a video.
- [80:36]
Jermaine Dupri
They made a video for Bad Girl. But yeah, but I also feel like. What would have been the fourth single.
- [80:47]
Co-host 2
Yeah, they had.
- [80:47]
Co-host 1
Why would have been Caught Up Got a video.
- [80:49]
Co-host 2
But how many. How many videos from the third, you can have a whole album full of videos.
- [80:53]
Jermaine Dupri
As I'm saying, it was like, after. Like, mind you, after. After.
- [80:59]
Co-host 1
Yes.
- [80:59]
Co-host 2
First.
- [81:01]
Jermaine Dupri
What? Caught up was Caught Up. Fourth. Caught up was four. Yeah. Caught up was fourth because it was. Yeah. Burn Confessions. Caught up and then Model.
- [81:11]
Co-host 1
Yes.
- [81:11]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah. That's what made it five. So I don't know. I mean, it could have been Caught up between Caught up and. But he.
- [81:17]
Co-host 1
But they did like Red Light out of video, huh? The extended version that. The Red Light song.
- [81:23]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, But I don't think that. That wasn't the single.
- [81:26]
Co-host 1
No, no, that was like when you
- [81:27]
Jermaine Dupri
bought the bonus cd, I think. I think. Cause Caught up was more up tempo. That he needed more tempo because we was down in. Burn Confessions was down. So it was like. Let's get back to the tempo. I don't. I mean, that was la. I can't. I don't have nothing to do with that.
- [81:41]
Co-host 1
I gotta get him in.
- [81:42]
Co-host 2
But yeah, from a music side, because we talk about this all day. From a business side, Quincy Jones just sold his. Well, Quincy Jones's estate to. Sold his catalog. 500 million. I don't know if that's the full catalog because that seems not a lot of money for Quincy Jones's catalog. I don't know. But what's your thoughts? Because we've seen this happen for years now. We was just with P Coach from Quality Control yesterday. We're talking about what's your thoughts on selling catalogs? And would you ever sell your catalog?
- [82:13]
Jermaine Dupri
I thought about selling some pieces of my catalog because you can. It's like property. You can sell some pieces without selling everything. Without selling everything. I mean, if somebody want to buy something they want to. They gonna buy. You know, it's just like a house. If you got a lot of them, right? I got a lot of. I got a lot of them. So I could. You know what I mean? Which one you want to buy? But. But I also was thinking about this. I was thinking about this because I'm into art and I was looking at Basquiat and I was Looking at the Warhols and when you look at the way that they made these paintings, it feels like somebody warned them that this was gone, that the price was going to go up, right? And I feel like. In the beginning of my career I didn't know what I was, what I was. I didn't know the power that I was. I also didn't know what I was going to bring to the industry. I was just shooting, right? But now I've been here 35 years and I can see that all the records that I wrote in 92, they bout to revert back to me anyway, right? That ain't normal, right? Like Prince died telling us about writing Slave on his face because he wanted his masters, right? If he could have stayed here another 10, 15 years and made more music, they was going to come back to him anyway, right? What you see, me and other artists that are like legacy artists, I guess at this point in time we're doing something that the music business has never actually seen. A lot of these people, they wrote these songs prior to me. Thirty years after they records came out, they had passed away or they, you know, they did some overdose, something happened where they didn't. They weren't able to actually put their hands on their, on their projects and make proper deals. So with that being said, I'm looking at this saying, I understand what selling your, you know, selling your promising is, but I'm also the first of my kind that'll actually be able to walk into everything that I wrote 40 years ago actually coming back.
- [84:37]
Co-host 2
Explain that for the people that might not be familiar with you.
- [84:40]
Jermaine Dupri
Well, you know, like when you talk about masters and you talk about, you talk about publishing, like I did a publishing deal with, like I said, with Sony, where they get 50% of the writing that I get, right. But it's a. I think the law is 40 years, right? Where anything that goes over 40 years, it automatically comes back to the originator.
- [85:00]
Co-host 2
So their 50% goes back?
- [85:02]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, I think it might be 35. Yeah. Their 50% come back to me and then I become 100% of all of them songs that have been split moving forward, right. And that, it's just like that's never really happened in hip hop, you know what I mean? Like a lot of, like I said, the guys that's in here, we don't, they don't. And they current still, they still currently on the, on the, on the front line, you won't actually see that. So with me being in that space, I have to look at it From a different perspective, because the people that I've seen sell their catalogs, they don't actually put out that much music after they do it. Right. I'm still out here putting out records, still in the studio every night. I'm still. I still have a space to go and I still have a place that I want to go to. So it ain't really even in my. I mean, it's a lot of money out there. Yeah, but you know, if you keep working, you're gonna make money anyway.
- [85:59]
Co-host 2
Why do you think that there's such a big push to buy catalogs now? Do you think that it's going to be. They're going to train AI on it? Like, why all of a sudden people just getting 200, 500, like, what, what makes music catalog so valuable in the last.
- [86:12]
Jermaine Dupri
I mean, because you can do something with it. You know what I mean? Like, you got, you take, take like say for instance, like, oh, Quincy Jones, you got, you know, they got Thriller out of that. You could do whatever you want to do with that Michael Jackson music. Like, and it's just like, it's just like anything. Like I seen like, like I seen a commercial today with Ludacris and he, he's on there and he talking about move. It's like something about grass or something. He talking about Move. And it's like, like the more culture becomes cool to mainstream, mainstream America that didn't think it was that cool when it became cool. Right. Because that's also what. We're in a space where we was trying to get into the Met Gala. We got into the Met Gala, but when we went, it's a generation of people that weren't paying attention to why we was at the Met Gala. Now the Met Gala is on tmz, right? The Met gal used to not be on tmz. Nobody was like that one. They weren't. It was like a quiet fly thing. If you was in the fashion, you went, now this is like. So it's like another level of people that's paying attention to the culture of hip hop, if, if you will. With that being said, what they see could happen with the music is what you got to pay attention to. Because they're looking at it from a perspective of like Star wars or now like, like they see you putting like, I mean, like Jay Z. I see Jay Z have syncs every day, like different car companies and all kind of stuff. It's like with these companies, to use rap music or urban sounding records is a fad in their Business. So to find a song is a thing, right? So. So these guys are looking at like, shit, we need to own this space.
- [88:08]
Co-host 2
Yeah.
- [88:08]
Jermaine Dupri
You know what I mean? We need to own this space. And ultimately, if you buy Quincy Jones catalog for 500. What you say?
- [88:17]
Co-host 2
500 million? Yeah.
- [88:19]
Jermaine Dupri
If you buy his catalog for 500 million and you go broke, you can sell it for 500 million or more, you know, more. You know what I mean? That's. That's what it is. And it's not going to depreciate. It's just going to keep going up.
- [88:34]
Co-host 1
Yeah. I mean, when I hear about it, I'm thinking licensing, how they're going to figure out how the license is this from your side?
- [88:39]
Jermaine Dupri
I'm.
- [88:39]
Co-host 1
I'm thinking. I. I think that the. It's 35 years, right. And so we're getting close to that 96 where, you know, life changes. Instead of having 50% ownership, now I have 100% ownership. Here comes a bigger valuation. You said that there's some parts of the catalog that you might. In your mind, like what. What pieces? Would you think that. Is it the ones that revert to 100% or their pieces?
- [89:05]
Jermaine Dupri
No. Well, I had a meeting with somebody one day, and they came to have. I mean, because I was trying to, like, hear about this buying publishing, and a guy came to my studio and he had a meeting with me, and he only wanted to buy this album that I did on this artist called Dandria as the artist I did a female artist named Dundria. And Fat.
- [89:25]
Co-host 1
Fat, huh? Fat, fat
- [89:30]
Co-host 2
YouTube to me.
- [89:31]
Jermaine Dupri
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So I did this project where. And he came and he was talking about her album, and he was like, we want to purchase her publishing.
- [89:46]
Co-host 2
The.
- [89:47]
Jermaine Dupri
Your publishing from that album. And I was like, how much is it? He's like, 200,000. And I'm like, you are giving me $200,000 for this? Okay. So you mean I could just take $200,000 for this album and you gonna go home and I'm gonna take $200,000 to go my way. That's when I started realizing, like, oh, I could split this shit up, right? So I probably could go get $50 million over here and still have some songs left over.
- [90:20]
Co-host 1
And you're still making songs.
- [90:22]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah.
- [90:22]
Co-host 1
So about that, because the song rising hasn't stopped, right. Money Long was probably number one. Was that the last number one?
- [90:30]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah. And Grammy.
- [90:31]
Co-host 1
And Grammy.
- [90:32]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah.
- [90:33]
Co-host 1
I mean, you're still doing this. So, like, there is back catalog, but there's new catalog that you're still creating. Talk about that process and what what it still excites you. Like from artists today.
- [90:46]
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- [92:20]
Co-host 2
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- [92:49]
Jermaine Dupri
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- [93:24]
Jermaine Dupri
There's not a lot of artists that excite me from today. It's just the fact that I know, like I said, I'm looking at this from a different perspective now. I'm also. So I'm experiencing things that I never thought I would experience. So say, for instance, Summer Walker sampled you Make Me wanna. And then she put Usher on the song. Then Usher calls me and said, JD I want you to write my verse. So now I'm writing a new verse on an old song that I wrote prior. So I'm getting double publishing. I'm getting new publishing, and I'm getting old publishing.
- [93:57]
Co-host 1
Oh, damn.
- [93:58]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, that's crazy. That happened again. It happened again. So then that was the first time that it happened.
- [94:03]
Co-host 1
Yeah.
- [94:04]
Jermaine Dupri
So then it just happened again with the Chris Brown record. A Chris Brown sample, nice and slow. He put. He put Usher on the remix. And I wrote. I wrote my parts on the. I wrote Usher parts on the remix. So then I'm getting publishing from that song. New publishing and old publishing from the. From the record of them sampling.
- [94:26]
Co-host 1
Did you hear the.
- [94:27]
Jermaine Dupri
A boogie record? Yeah.
- [94:29]
Co-host 1
Where he kind of.
- [94:29]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah. I had to clear that.
- [94:31]
Co-host 1
Okay. And I was thinking. Because it feels like I remember him playing it. And then they played it for Mariah. And then my mom, like, wait, that's. That's J.D.
- [94:38]
Jermaine Dupri
yeah, they. I mean, they. I remember them sending that song. She had to clear her. This whole records.
- [94:43]
Co-host 2
I ain't.
- [94:43]
Jermaine Dupri
I mean, I don't got to clear, but I. I had to clear it on my part.
- [94:46]
Co-host 2
Okay.
- [94:46]
Jermaine Dupri
Or what I. What I have in that song. Gotcha. Yeah.
- [94:51]
Co-host 2
Back when the verses never happened. Bad boy versus so. So D. I know y' all had talked about that a lot. Obviously, this is way before Puff went to jail, but that was a very anticipated, highly anticipated.
- [95:03]
Jermaine Dupri
Or too much money. Like, too much money.
- [95:06]
Co-host 2
Too much money?
- [95:07]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah.
- [95:08]
Co-host 2
That would have to be paid to you guys, or you was asking for too much money. Swift was like, we can leave.
- [95:15]
Jermaine Dupri
I mean, me and Puff had a conversation about it, like. Like, you know, this gonna be the biggest thing in hip hop ever. Like, we're not gonna do this just to be doing it to appease, you know, people like, you know. And, you know, y' all know our pup was about getting money, bro.
- [95:32]
Co-host 1
We had a conversation with all parties.
- [95:34]
Jermaine Dupri
Swiss. Swiss. We had Swiss.
- [95:35]
Co-host 2
That's Why?
- [95:35]
Jermaine Dupri
I thought it was done. Yeah. Nah, nah. I mean, it's a photo of me and Puff backyard, and Swizz comes over to Puff house and we start having this conversation. And it's like, I'm letting Puff lead it. Cause I'm like, if you get the money, I'm gonna get the money. So. You know what I mean? It wasn't like. It wasn't like a different. It wasn't a different pie. It was like, if you gonna give him money, I know I'm gonna get paid too. So I was cool, but it was just a facilitating of, like doing a show that level. We had to pay for all the artists to be there. You gotta fly the people there. It was gonna just cost a lot of money.
- [96:12]
Co-host 1
They told us what a venue was.
- [96:13]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah, it was gonna be a. You know, like, we got into an argument about him doing it in New York, and I was gonna do it in Atlanta. So then they got to be like, oh, we gonna have to do two shows.
- [96:23]
Co-host 2
Two shows. But that would have been dope too, though. R and B show and a rap show.
- [96:27]
Jermaine Dupri
Nah, that wouldn't be no R and B. It was gonna be just two. Both guys had to let it. Let's go, let's go. Let's go home at home. Yeah. Huh.
- [96:33]
Co-host 1
It was gonna be a home at home.
- [96:34]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah. Yeah. So it was just gonna be, you know, it wasn't. It was just. I mean, it was gonna, like. Like I said, it wasn't never like what everybody. It was gonna. We was have. I thought we was gonna have a ball doing.
- [96:43]
Co-host 2
Felt confident.
- [96:44]
Jermaine Dupri
It.
- [96:44]
Co-host 1
Yeah, I. I feel like when I hear you talk about it, there's no doubt in your mind that this is a. This is a win.
- [96:51]
Jermaine Dupri
I mean, I'm not gonna say a win, but I'm gonna say, like, listen, if you get in a fight, if you fight Mike Tyson and you think that nigga ain't gonna hit you, then why do we ring? That's a fact. Right? Just what I'm saying. So I'm saying, like, in my eyes, puff going, I'm gonna get punched. You know, he got the Benjamins. He got hypnotized. He got a bunch of records that feel like punches. But I also got an area where I go in where he got figure out a lot of shit. Like, it ain't even punches. It's like, you gotta figure it out. It's a lot of number ones. Huh? It's a lot of number ones, but not even about the number ones. It's just about you know, like, we start going into the age space, right? Because the Bow Wow age difference between a lot of artists and what that generation is and how they listen to music, plays a lot into what goes on at versions. Like tonight, I don't know what's going to happen to Tank when Tyrese start playing these records that people actually know. There's a lot of records that Tank got that's number ones. But the generation that, they don't know them, right? He talk about it, but they don't know him. And I feel like when you doing verses, that's where it start getting.
- [98:10]
Co-host 2
Well, you know who changed it?
- [98:12]
Jermaine Dupri
Jadakiss. Nah. No, he didn't, because he.
- [98:14]
Co-host 2
For me, because we was there, so
- [98:17]
Jermaine Dupri
I know what you're saying. But what Jadakiss did, What Jadakiss did, he did what you supposed to do in New York, what Camden was supposed to do. That's what he did. And he seen it. Oh, these don't want to rap. They want to hide behind their little souls. Yeah. Oh, nah, nah. He turned them. He turned on that hip hop machine. Free Spam and N in there was like. And then he did it over. Who shot you? And it's just like, oh, okay. Game over. You know what I mean? We not gonna keep talking about this. And he just. And he's a guy that. He's top five, dead or alive, right? This ain't even like, no, you know, you not playing with somebody. That's what I'm saying. You get in a fight with niggas, you gotta be. You gotta know who you go. Who you fighting with. That's a fact. Jada's not a guy to get in the ring and just be like, yeah, he gonna swing. That's a fact. That's a fact. You know what I mean? And when he swung Cam up on his freestyle.
- [99:16]
Co-host 2
That's a fact.
- [99:17]
Jermaine Dupri
That's a fact. That's a fact. You know what I mean? Like, Cam had an opportunity. That's a fact.
- [99:23]
Co-host 2
I think they discounted the credit of they thought they had more songs than the Locks. And the Locks has a lot of songs. But then when they got in that freestyle battle.
- [99:33]
Jermaine Dupri
That's what I'm saying. So it's like, all right.
- [99:35]
Co-host 2
Even if we don't got something that nobody knows, we got a verse. We got a verse that's going.
- [99:39]
Jermaine Dupri
Tear this shit up. Out of eight. That also plays into my thoughts of, like, what I would have done to puff on that stage.
- [99:51]
Co-host 2
Oh, it would have been more than just hit records.
- [99:54]
Jermaine Dupri
I'm Saying I actually rap, yo. Like, I'm not. Like, I've really rapped. He got verses wrote to him. Like, I'm gonna make sure you start realizing this. Like, you realize this. Like, that's what I'm saying. I was getting ready to go into a space where niggas was gonna be
- [100:10]
Co-host 2
like, oh, you got in your lyrical. Rapper, rapper battle.
- [100:14]
Jermaine Dupri
No, I wasn't gonna go into like, lyrical miracle as rhyme. I'm saying, like, I'm a hip hop baby. Like, I'm gonna start acting like a. That really make rap records, right? And I'm gonna start talking shit about niggas who don't make rap records and niggas don't. Didn't that write your rap? Like, I was gonna. I was getting ready to get that. That might say that.
- [100:36]
Co-host 1
I don't write rounds, I write checks.
- [100:38]
Jermaine Dupri
It ain't gonna do nothing for me.
- [100:40]
Co-host 1
It's 20 records, right? 20 and 20, right?
- [100:42]
Jermaine Dupri
Yeah.
- [100:42]
Co-host 1
And this is. I sat with this for a while. I'm like, you got so many. Like, what would have been number 20? Like, what would have been, like, the number one. Your number one pinnacle, the diamond. Yeah.
- [100:56]
Jermaine Dupri
Like, I don't know. Cause I think that play days, I think that's another thing. I wasn't gonna prepare my set like that, okay. Because I did this with Anthony Hamilton. I DJ for Anthony Hamilton. When he went up against music, I think, right? And they. Everybody was like, preparing for a set. Like, he played this song, play this song. When he played this song, play this song. I wasn't going into it like that. I was just gonna sit there and be like, okay, I'm gonna see what he played. What you gonna do?
- [101:24]
Co-host 1
I'm gonna bomb that, right? Like.
- [101:26]
Jermaine Dupri
Like, okay. If you play Carl Thomas,
- [101:32]
Co-host 1
R is tough.
- [101:33]
Co-host 2
I think Benjamin's is the biggest record that they got on that side.
- [101:36]
Jermaine Dupri
So n. He got. I mean, hit the. See, the thing about it was, I just. Was like. I just kept saying top three. I just kept saying, you know, unfortunately, BIG couldn't be there. So to me, it weakened the presence of what we was doing. Because if you having a show, right, And I'm bringing artists, you bringing artists, but then you playing an artist song and they. They not there.
- [102:02]
Co-host 2
Yeah.
- [102:02]
Jermaine Dupri
Even though it's big, it still don't have the same impact.
- [102:05]
Co-host 1
Yeah.
- [102:06]
Jermaine Dupri
As people coming on the stage. I mean, like I said, it was going to be a fight. I wasn't getting ready. Like, I wasn't getting ready back down to get punched.
- [102:13]
Co-host 1
You gotta get punched in the age of AI we see a lot of producers. I was actually watching Guru talk about some of the, the, the new technology that they. That is being presented for producers.
- [102:26]
Jermaine Dupri
Read my phone this morning, watching. I seen them say the same things. Yeah, he was talking about how they, you know, they making.
- [102:35]
Co-host 1
You could just take the strings and any string you want. Does it play a role in how you produce? No, not yet.
- [102:43]
Jermaine Dupri
Will it?
- [102:43]
Co-host 1
No, no, not going to.
- [102:46]
Jermaine Dupri
I was in the studio last night doing the Kelly Rowland and I had a guitar player come to God to be doing the guitar solos on Usher. And when he finished he was like, JD what you think about AI? And I was like, AI can't do what you just did. And you could sit there and prompt it, but it's like ultimately you're just telling AI to find something that somebody already did. AI doesn't create something that they haven't heard, that they're finding the best of the best. So therefore you're gonna get like. That's what he was saying. They're finding a way to make samples that sound like samples and producers are using it, right? Of course they are. Because it sounds just like the samples that we are trying to find. The difference is when we're digging in the crates, we can't hear what we're looking for. We have to be creative and find it. Speed and record of this, that and the third. The producers are going there saying make this sound like Motown, but speed it up to like 115 so the vocals is sped up and it really starts really sounding like a sample. Right. That's basically to me that means that, that people's records are going to start sounding more and more alike because you're getting something that's not, you're not, you're not actually creating something the way that we actually find vinyl and have to put songs together. Like the, the way I mean, like, I mean it might be the old guy in me, but at the same time I just believe that you still have to put your hands on and be a little bit creative.
- [104:29]
Co-host 1
Does it make it more cost efficient? Meaning that I don't have to pay for the sample. I could duplicate from the IT industry size.
- [104:37]
Jermaine Dupri
That's why I started living in it. It costed those. But like I said, at the end of the day I, I never was had money to pay for samples. I just had to make it or not make it. And I think that, that the, the not having that on your head makes a lazy person.
- [104:54]
Co-host 2
Right?
- [104:55]
Jermaine Dupri
You, you. If you know you have to make it to eat, then you gonna do what you gotta do. If you feel like. Like you can slide around the side and get some food, you ain't gonna really try to press the buttons and do what you got to do.
- [105:11]
Co-host 2
Well, I appreciate this, my brother. It's been fun. Before we leave, tell the people the new stuff that you're working on on the Vision and the Magic City project. And I'm not sure what else, but. Yeah, let us know.
- [105:20]
Jermaine Dupri
Oh, man, I'm just. I mean, at this point, I'm just in the studio, you know, division, album coming, a lot of new artists minute doing Kelly Roland, Ari Lennox out right now, just, you know, constantly making projects. You know what I mean? Every day is somebody new calling me, trying to work.
- [105:39]
Co-host 2
So, you know, there you have it, my brother. Well, once again, thank you, bro.
- [105:44]
Jermaine Dupri
Appreciate it, man.
- [105:44]
Co-host 2
We could do this all day. All right, guys, thank you for rocking with us. See you next week. Peace. Peace.
- [105:49]
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Jermaine Dupri
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