RYAN LESLIE MADE $2 MILLION OFF AN ALBUM THAT SOLD 17,000 COPIES

Summary

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Earn Your Leisure: "RYAN LESLIE MADE $2 MILLION OFF AN ALBUM THAT SOLD 17,000 COPIES"

Release Date: December 16, 2025
Hosts: Rashad Bilal & Troy Millings
Guest: Ryan Leslie
Platform: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the innovative business strategy of Ryan Leslie, who famously generated $2 million from an album that sold only 17,000 copies. Hosts Rashad and Troy explore how Leslie leveraged direct-to-fan relationships, technological tools, and a clear understanding of audience engagement to turn a niche following into significant revenue. The conversation sheds light on the intersection of music, technology, and entrepreneurship while offering practical insights for artists and creators aiming for financial independence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Pyramid of Intimacy: Building Deeper Connections

[03:22–06:58]

• Rashad introduces the concept of a "pyramid of intimacy" for fan/consumer relationships, starting with social media and moving up to more personal channels.
• Social Media as the Base:
  • Described as the digital equivalent of walking the crowded streets of New York. “Anyone that you see... you have the option of speaking to them... The expectation for a response is very low.” (Host, 04:17)
• Next Steps Up the Pyramid:
  • DMs & Email: Getting someone's email often comes through a warm introduction.
  • Text & Phone Calls: Texting leads to real phone conversations, allowing a deeper, faster rapport.
  • In-Person Interaction: The pinnacle—meeting face-to-face—provides the deepest connection and trust.

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2. The Superphone Approach & Monetizing Relationships

[06:58–08:04, 11:36–13:24]

• Ryan Leslie’s Direct-to-Fan Strategy:
  • Put his phone number on Twitter, received 35,000 texts, and set up automated responses to collect fan data.
  • “Thanks for texting. I would love to know who you are. So please put your information in my phone.” (Ryan Leslie, 07:15)
• Intentional Capturing at First Contact:
  • The key difference from other campaigns: “I didn’t just say, ‘Hey, here’s my number, shoot me a text.’ I said, ‘Look, shoot me a text to get my new album.’” (Ryan Leslie, 11:36)
  • High conversion rate: 17,000 out of 35,000 bought the record at $10 each = $170,000.
• The Value of Direct Data:
  • Ryan built a detailed Rolodex of every buyer, including names, contact info, and location, which he leveraged for touring and future offers.

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3. The Power of Niche Audiences

[13:24–16:31]

• Live Shows Multiply Impact:
  • Buyers bring friends—selling ~40,000 concert tickets at €60 each.
    • “Even though only 17,000 people in my phone actually bought my record, they all brought a friend or two or three or five to the concerts... We sold 40,000 tickets at €60 a ticket.” (Ryan Leslie, 12:43)
• Digital Products over Merch:
  • Digital music and content scale infinitely with no physical costs.
  • “Even if you went platinum, there is still a large number of people around the world who have yet to have even heard your record one time.” (Ryan Leslie, 13:24)
• Evergreen Content:
  • Old music can be new to new listeners, extending the product's life and revenue potential.

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4. Staying Grounded—Never Getting Complacent

[15:06–16:10]

• Hosts & Guest Reflect on Humility:
  • Even as their podcast grows, most people still don’t know them.
  • “You can never get caught thinking that you, like, made it, because there’s always a bunch of people that don’t know.” (Podcast Guest, 16:04)

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5. Depth vs. Scale: The Dilemma for Creators

[16:10–17:56]

• You Don’t Need to Be Mainstream:
  • “You still can be ridiculously wealthy just from a niche audience.” (Ryan Leslie, 16:10)
  • Example: Some Gen Zers don’t know Oprah, but her loyal, engaged niche is powerful and lucrative.
• Advantages of Manageable Audiences:
  • Greater depth yields greater reward; Ryan knows top fans who’ve spent thousands with him.
  • “That depth of relationship... is always going to yield... a greater reward in general.” (Ryan Leslie, 17:56)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Pyramid of Intimacy

• "Social media is almost like a virtual representation of walking around the streets of New York...The expectation for a response is very low."
  — Host, [04:17]

• "Text allows you to turn up from texting to a phone conversation very quickly. And when you have that kind of rapport, you're really gonna see who wants to work with you."
  — Host, [05:55]

Direct-to-Fan Monetization

• “The first response is always, 'Thanks for texting. I would love to know who you are. So please put your information in my phone.'”
  — Ryan Leslie, [07:15]

• “The difference… [in 2013] was a very specific intent captured at the initiation of the conversation… Once that intent is captured, then you have an incredibly high conversion rate.”
  — Ryan Leslie, [11:36]

• “Even though only 17,000 people in my phone actually bought my record, they all brought a friend or two or three or five to the concerts... We sold 40,000 tickets at €60 a ticket.”
  — Ryan Leslie, [12:43]

Evergreen Value & Humility

• “Even if you went platinum, there is still a large number of people around the world who have yet to have even heard your record one time.”
  — Ryan Leslie, [13:24]

• “You can never get caught thinking that you, like, made it, because there’s always a bunch of people that don’t know.”
  — Podcast Guest, [16:04]

Power in Depth Over Scale

• “You still can be ridiculously wealthy just from a niche audience.”
  — Ryan Leslie, [16:10]

• “That depth of relationship... is always going to yield... a greater reward in general.”
  — Ryan Leslie, [17:56]

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Useful Timestamps for Key Segments

• Pyramid of Intimacy — Levels of Engagement: [04:17–06:58]
• Ryan Leslie explains his $2M album strategy: [06:58–08:04], [11:36–13:24]
• Discussion on the importance of niche audiences and evergreen content: [13:24–16:31]
• Creator humility and the ongoing need to reach new people: [15:06–16:10]
• Niche vs. Mainstream — depth vs. scale: [16:10–17:56]

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Summary Takeaways

• Direct, intentional contact with fans transforms engagement into real revenue, bypassing traditional middlemen.
• Data collection and fan relationship management are vital tools for modern creators and entrepreneurs.
• Scale isn't everything; a committed, smaller fanbase may yield more financial and creative rewards than chasing mass appeal.
• Great products—especially music—are evergreen, and there's always a new audience to discover them.
• Never get complacent: success is relative, and continually reaching new people drives long-term growth.

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This episode offers a masterclass in leveraging technology and personal connection for entrepreneurial success in entertainment—a compelling listen for creators, business owners, and anyone interested in the modern economy of attention and intimacy.

Transcript

[Host]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

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[Host]

Hey ref.

[Sports Fan 1]

Open your eyes.

[IBM Advertiser]

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[Sports Fan 1]

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[Podcast Co-host]

I don't think you get what we're doing.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser / Ryan Reynolds / Julian Edelman]

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[Podcast Co-host]

Nope, that's not it.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser / Ryan Reynolds / Julian Edelman]

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[Host]

Liberty.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser / Ryan Reynolds / Julian Edelman]

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[Podcast Co-host]

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[Host]

Well, I would say that social media is almost like a virtual representation of walking around the streets of New York, right? So anyone that you see on the streets of New York or riding the trains or however you're walking around New York, you actually do have the option of speaking to them, right? Okay, so you could be in Times Square and, you know, 10, 20,000 people in times Square, as long as they're standing there and walking the same street with you, you have the option of speaking with them. Whether they're gonna speak to you is up to them. You have, you. You have the. You have the option, right? Same on the Internet, right? Social media, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, whatever social platform you're on, as long as they're there and they're sharing, you also have the option of reaching out and speaking to them. Whether it's through a direct message, whether it's in a comment, whether it's in a retweet or reply, whatever it is, they obviously have the option of whether they would like to respond. The connectivity is there. So I would say the expected response. And that's why you just. Oh, in New York. Because there's already. It's already built in the expected response time. So once you start on social media and you're Basically. And that's basically a virtual representation of what's happening in the world. If you're just walking around, the expected response time or the expectation for a response is very low. Right. Once you can move up and you actually can get an email address.

[Podcast Co-host]

Yeah.

[Host]

That expectation for a response goes up.

[Podcast Co-host]

A little bit higher.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host]

So you went social media, I think you said dms, and then now we have email.

[Host]

Right. So you get from DMs to email. The beauty of email as well is the fact that nine times out of ten, when you get someone's email, you've been introduced by someone. So you say like this. How? I say, hey, put me in touch with your guy from. From. From the R and B. And he's doing texting. I'm going to get a warm introduction. So it's not just me reaching out randomly. Yeah, I'm getting a warm introduction on email. Right. That can also happen on text. What I like about text, though, is the fact that text allows you to turn up from texting to a phone conversation very quickly. And when you have that kind of rapport, you're really gonna see who wants to work with you. Yeah. When you can take stock of who actually answers your phone call, especially in 2020, who's actually going to answer the phone call? Right. And then that continues up the pyramid. Okay. Yo, we had a phone call. Hey, look, why don't you pull up at this time? You got that in person. And then you continue moving up the pyramid from there.

[Podcast Guest]

So, yeah, I want to talk about superphone, but before that, I wanted to go back to the. You said you made $2 million after off that album when you took it off. So can you detail, like, how did you do that? Was it through your merch? Was it through live shows? A combination of everything.

[Host]

Live, live, live. Made up the majority live shows. Yeah. So. So when I put my number on Twitter and say, hey, everybody, shoot me a text, there were 35, 000 people that texted in the first response that everyone got. And whether you're texting, you know, you texted me for the first time, or you see any of these other celebs, I mean, they. Now, six, seven years later, everybody finally caught on, you know what I'm saying? The first response is it needs to be automated. Right. For you to be able to manage the scale. And that first response is always, thanks for texting. I would love to know who you are. So please put your information in my phone. Right. Because I'm not going to type everybody's information. So here's a form. You can actually put your information in my phone so I know who's even texting me at that point.

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[Host]

Hey ref. Open your eyes, ref.

[Sports Fan 1]

You're really not gonna call that. Come on.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser / Ryan Reynolds / Julian Edelman]

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[Podcast Co-host]

I don't think you get what we're doing.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser / Ryan Reynolds / Julian Edelman]

Sure I do. We're all just giving him advice. You guys on sports, me on saving money.

[Podcast Co-host]

Nope, that's not it.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser / Ryan Reynolds / Julian Edelman]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Host]

Liberty.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser / Ryan Reynolds / Julian Edelman]

Liberty. Liberty.

[Host]

Difference, I would say between my 2013 campaign and the campaigns that I'm seeing now is that there was a very specific intent captured at the initiation of the conversation. So I didn't just say, hey, here's my number. Shoot me a text. What's up? I said, look, shoot me a text to get my new album. So they shot me a text. I already know the reason they're texting is to get my new album. What's your information? Once I have the information, here's a link to get the album. Once that intent is captured, then you have an incredibly high conversion rate. So one out of every two, about 17,000 people actually bought that record. They bought it for $10. That's 170,000, right? The difference though is that I now have a Rolodex, a record, a ledger of every single person that's willing to actually spend money with me directly. So now, not only do I have names, not only do I have emails, not only do I have telephone numbers, I have city and state and country information. So now I'm going on tour.

[Podcast Co-host]

Got the real go.

[Host]

You're going on tour? People go to concerts because it is a social experience. So yeah, you might go to the concert if none of your friends want to go. You still figure out a way. You go by yourself, but you're still in a room with a bunch of people. You guys are connected by the fact that you appreciate the artist. That's on stage for me in that situation. Even though only 17,000 people in my phone actually bought my record, they all brought a friend or two or three or five to the concerts. When I announced them, we sold 40,000 tickets at €60 a ticket. You could do the math.

[Podcast Co-host]

That's like five albums right there, you.

[Host]

Know, and so it's really just. And like I said, you know, there's obviously ancillary income that happens from that. There's publishing revenue and merchandise, etc. For me, you know, I. I really prefer digital goods because, you know, there's a cost of goods. You know, when you have merchandise and there's a cost of inventory, there's a cost of shipping, and. And so digital goods for me have always been my preference just because they have unlimited scale. And as long as you're delivering value, hopefully your content is going to be evergreen. And so that's why I always remind an artist that even though you may feel like your music is outdated to you, it's actually brand new for the person who's hearing it for the first time. And the reality is that even if you went platinum, there is still a large number of people around the world who have yet to have even heard your record one time. So you have the ability in music, which always why I say, look, just create the best music you possibly can, because great music is evergreen, you know. And so, you know, I'm doing some real estate development and investments in Brooklyn. And so, you know, sometimes you'll walk into some of the, whether it's the mom and pop stores or just the bodegas or wherever, and they'll be playing some great, you know, old school music. I'd never heard the record before. I'm putting my Shazam up because for me, it's still that experience of discovering that music for the first time. It's 30, 40 years old.

[Podcast Guest]

You know, I love what you said as far as, like, how many people don't know you? Because that happened. I realized that, like, now with the podcast, it's become very popular, especially in our community, and we went to an event, Curl Fest. I don't know if you've heard of it, but yeah, one of our guests on the podcast, a friend of ours, she does it. So we had Curlfest this year, and it's like 20,000 women and not a lot of men. And like, at least probably like 20 people came up to us like, yo, we love your podcast. So at first I'm like, this is dope. Like, we feel like, you know, we made it. But then I'm thinking, all right, 20 people recognized us, which is dope, but there's 20,000 people here. Like, how many people? We still got so much more to penetrate.

[Podcast Co-host]

I tell them every day, like, my life is so much duality. Like, I go to work, most of my co workers don't even know I do a podcast. I walk down the street. Most people don't even know I'm a teacher. But, like, there are rare occasions, like, we're in Houston, Ian, somebody will say, oh, you know, I love your podcast. It's like, all right, this is cool. But, like, nah, we got so much penetration.

[Podcast Guest]

You can never get caught thinking that you, like, made it, because there's always a bunch of people that don't know.

[Podcast Co-host]

Who you are, have no clue.

[Host]

Yeah. And also, just to be. Just to keep it 100, you still can be ridiculously wealthy just from a niche audience. You know, I would say that, you know that there. There exists a number of gen zers that may not even know who Oprah is. Right?

[Podcast Guest]

That's a fact.

[Host]

The audience, though, that she's created, that's her niche audience, and that's. That's a loyal audience. And that audience is not just limited to the viewers. It's also limited to the television executives that love her content and want to syndicate it. Right. And so I think that, you know, the. I would say the conundrum of scale, or the dilemma, if you will, of scale is unless you really have the technological infrastructure to have a direct relationship with each one of your listeners at scale, you're better off having a manageable. A manageable audience in terms of size so that you can actually have a depth of a relationship with those folks. I have folks. You know, you look at my socials, my socials, compared to the. The biggest stars or influencers on Instagram, I'm sitting at 360,000 followers. I know that in my core, though, I have folks that have spent 4, 5, 6, 7, $10,000 with me, and I know every dollar they spent. I know the products they like, et cetera. And so, you know, that depth of relationship on. And that's sort of in any. In any vertical, in any circumstance, the depth of relationship is always going to yield, I would say, just a greater reward in general.

[Podcast Co-host]

Sometimes less is more, less is more.

[Podcast Guest]

A lot of times less is more.

[Host]

And this is.

[Podcast Co-host]

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[Host]

We host the podcast Mind the Business, Small Business Business Success Stories produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks. We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners. The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing.

[Podcast Co-host]

Everyone's a rookie. That's how fast the industry is changing.

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So what I'm really excited about is.

[Host]

To be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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