Earn Your Leisure: "RYAN LESLIE MADE $2 MILLION OFF AN ALBUM THAT SOLD 17,000 COPIES"

Release Date: December 16, 2025
Hosts: Rashad Bilal & Troy Millings
Guest: Ryan Leslie
Platform: iHeartPodcasts

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the innovative business strategy of Ryan Leslie, who famously generated $2 million from an album that sold only 17,000 copies. Hosts Rashad and Troy explore how Leslie leveraged direct-to-fan relationships, technological tools, and a clear understanding of audience engagement to turn a niche following into significant revenue. The conversation sheds light on the intersection of music, technology, and entrepreneurship while offering practical insights for artists and creators aiming for financial independence.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Pyramid of Intimacy: Building Deeper Connections

[03:22–06:58]

• Rashad introduces the concept of a "pyramid of intimacy" for fan/consumer relationships, starting with social media and moving up to more personal channels.
• Social Media as the Base:
  • Described as the digital equivalent of walking the crowded streets of New York. “Anyone that you see... you have the option of speaking to them... The expectation for a response is very low.” (Host, 04:17)
• Next Steps Up the Pyramid:
  • DMs & Email: Getting someone's email often comes through a warm introduction.
  • Text & Phone Calls: Texting leads to real phone conversations, allowing a deeper, faster rapport.
  • In-Person Interaction: The pinnacle—meeting face-to-face—provides the deepest connection and trust.

2. The Superphone Approach & Monetizing Relationships

[06:58–08:04, 11:36–13:24]

• Ryan Leslie’s Direct-to-Fan Strategy:
  • Put his phone number on Twitter, received 35,000 texts, and set up automated responses to collect fan data.
  • “Thanks for texting. I would love to know who you are. So please put your information in my phone.” (Ryan Leslie, 07:15)
• Intentional Capturing at First Contact:
  • The key difference from other campaigns: “I didn’t just say, ‘Hey, here’s my number, shoot me a text.’ I said, ‘Look, shoot me a text to get my new album.’” (Ryan Leslie, 11:36)
  • High conversion rate: 17,000 out of 35,000 bought the record at $10 each = $170,000.
• The Value of Direct Data:
  • Ryan built a detailed Rolodex of every buyer, including names, contact info, and location, which he leveraged for touring and future offers.

3. The Power of Niche Audiences

[13:24–16:31]

• Live Shows Multiply Impact:
  • Buyers bring friends—selling ~40,000 concert tickets at €60 each.
    • “Even though only 17,000 people in my phone actually bought my record, they all brought a friend or two or three or five to the concerts... We sold 40,000 tickets at €60 a ticket.” (Ryan Leslie, 12:43)
• Digital Products over Merch:
  • Digital music and content scale infinitely with no physical costs.
  • “Even if you went platinum, there is still a large number of people around the world who have yet to have even heard your record one time.” (Ryan Leslie, 13:24)
• Evergreen Content:
  • Old music can be new to new listeners, extending the product's life and revenue potential.

4. Staying Grounded—Never Getting Complacent

[15:06–16:10]

• Hosts & Guest Reflect on Humility:
  • Even as their podcast grows, most people still don’t know them.
  • “You can never get caught thinking that you, like, made it, because there’s always a bunch of people that don’t know.” (Podcast Guest, 16:04)

5. Depth vs. Scale: The Dilemma for Creators

[16:10–17:56]

• You Don’t Need to Be Mainstream:
  • “You still can be ridiculously wealthy just from a niche audience.” (Ryan Leslie, 16:10)
  • Example: Some Gen Zers don’t know Oprah, but her loyal, engaged niche is powerful and lucrative.
• Advantages of Manageable Audiences:
  • Greater depth yields greater reward; Ryan knows top fans who’ve spent thousands with him.
  • “That depth of relationship... is always going to yield... a greater reward in general.” (Ryan Leslie, 17:56)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Pyramid of Intimacy

• "Social media is almost like a virtual representation of walking around the streets of New York...The expectation for a response is very low."
  — Host, [04:17]

• "Text allows you to turn up from texting to a phone conversation very quickly. And when you have that kind of rapport, you're really gonna see who wants to work with you."
  — Host, [05:55]

Direct-to-Fan Monetization

• “The first response is always, 'Thanks for texting. I would love to know who you are. So please put your information in my phone.'”
  — Ryan Leslie, [07:15]

• “The difference… [in 2013] was a very specific intent captured at the initiation of the conversation… Once that intent is captured, then you have an incredibly high conversion rate.”
  — Ryan Leslie, [11:36]

• “Even though only 17,000 people in my phone actually bought my record, they all brought a friend or two or three or five to the concerts... We sold 40,000 tickets at €60 a ticket.”
  — Ryan Leslie, [12:43]

Evergreen Value & Humility

• “Even if you went platinum, there is still a large number of people around the world who have yet to have even heard your record one time.”
  — Ryan Leslie, [13:24]

• “You can never get caught thinking that you, like, made it, because there’s always a bunch of people that don’t know.”
  — Podcast Guest, [16:04]

Power in Depth Over Scale

• “You still can be ridiculously wealthy just from a niche audience.”
  — Ryan Leslie, [16:10]

• “That depth of relationship... is always going to yield... a greater reward in general.”
  — Ryan Leslie, [17:56]

Useful Timestamps for Key Segments

• Pyramid of Intimacy — Levels of Engagement: [04:17–06:58]
• Ryan Leslie explains his $2M album strategy: [06:58–08:04], [11:36–13:24]
• Discussion on the importance of niche audiences and evergreen content: [13:24–16:31]
• Creator humility and the ongoing need to reach new people: [15:06–16:10]
• Niche vs. Mainstream — depth vs. scale: [16:10–17:56]

Summary Takeaways

• Direct, intentional contact with fans transforms engagement into real revenue, bypassing traditional middlemen.
• Data collection and fan relationship management are vital tools for modern creators and entrepreneurs.
• Scale isn't everything; a committed, smaller fanbase may yield more financial and creative rewards than chasing mass appeal.
• Great products—especially music—are evergreen, and there's always a new audience to discover them.
• Never get complacent: success is relative, and continually reaching new people drives long-term growth.

This episode offers a masterclass in leveraging technology and personal connection for entrepreneurial success in entertainment—a compelling listen for creators, business owners, and anyone interested in the modern economy of attention and intimacy.