The #1 Mistake That Costs Black Entrepreneurs Their Brands

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Earn Your Leisure

Episode: The #1 Mistake That Costs Black Entrepreneurs Their Brands
Date: May 31, 2026
Hosts: Rashad Bilal & Troy Millings
Guest: Rosina Samuels (Trademark Attorney)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the #1 mistake Black entrepreneurs make that costs them their brands: neglecting intellectual property, especially trademark protection. Hosts Rashad Bilal and Troy Millings, along with guest trademark attorney Rosina Samuels, unpack the complexities surrounding patents, trademarks, AI’s role in entrepreneurship, and the critical importance of legal ownership in brand building.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Patent vs. Trademark: Understanding Intellectual Property

(02:17 – 05:52)

• Host opens with a viral debate: Past guest Julian Brown argued against patents, claiming that registering makes innovations public and vulnerable to theft, especially by big companies.
• Rosina’s breakdown:
  • Four types of IP: Trade secret (lasts as long as it’s secret), patent (20 years), trademark (lasts as long as you use it).
  • The power of trademarks: “Coca Cola has been registered since 1893. Mercedes been registered since 1903.”
  • Don’t let others talk you out of securing IP:

    "Don’t allow people to trick you out of your greatness and tell you that a trademark is not necessary."
    — Rosina Samuels (03:22)

  • When patents make sense: Points to Black inventor Lonnie Johnson (of Super Soaker/NASA fame), who successfully defended his patents and won multi-million dollar lawsuits.
  • Legal strategy isn’t one-size-fits-all: The right move depends on your circumstances and technology.
  • Support exists: Intellectual property investors (hedge funds) will sometimes back lawsuits if there's a high chance of success.

2. Scaling a Law Firm & Ethical Use of AI

(05:52 – 08:55)

• Host notes Rosina’s growth: Over 6,000 clients; asks how she’s scaling and using AI.
• Rosina’s approach to AI:
  • Uses AI to enhance, not replace, her workforce.
  • Focuses on making her staff more efficient and improving client experience, rather than replacing jobs.
  • Cautions against DIY trademarking with tools like ChatGPT:

    "A fourth of our clients…they did my trademark with chat GPT and now I got an office action and I can't figure it out."
    — Rosina Samuels (07:27)

  • AI “is no competition for me” due to quality and care provided by her team.

3. How to Know if an Attorney is Working for You

(12:16 – 14:45)

• Red flags & questions:
  • Ask, “Where does the ownership lie?” in every contract and agreement.
  • Be wary if your attorney isn’t pushing back on outdated contractual clauses (e.g., “breakage clauses” in digital music contracts).
  • Don’t let anyone box you out of your own project:

    “A lot of our celebrities…are being fired from projects they created on their own. Who was that attorney that was sitting on the side of you?”
    — Rosina Samuels (13:25)

  • Stand firm on ownership or, at minimum, partnership stakes.
  • Highlight: Kanye West’s focus on trademarking “Yeezy” was strategic self-ownership.

4. Should You Use AI (Like ChatGPT) for Legal Contracts?

(14:45 – 16:28)

• Rosina’s strong advice: Always get an attorney for critical business moves (e.g., contract review, IP).
• Cautionary example:
  • ChatGPT suggested a referral program violating ABA rules for lawyers. Someone without legal knowledge could follow bad advice.

    "If you don't know that…AI is still learning itself…and it's kind of like the blind leading the blind."
    — Rosina Samuels (15:35)

• AI is useful for some tasks (like redecorating or marketing ideas), but not for contracts or trademark filings.

5. Trademarking: Categories, International Issues, and Timing

(16:28 – 21:32)

• Trademark classes: 45 total; classes 1-34 (products), 35-45 (services).
• Multiple use cases: Example—Podcast, investment app, and apparel line each require a separate class.
• International differences:
  • US: First to use.
  • China: First to file. If you do business in China, file the trademark there before manufacturing to prevent the producer from registering it first and “stealing” your brand.
  • 45 classes apply internationally.
• When to file:
  • File before you gain traction—don’t “build a house on land you don’t own.”

    “If you’re in this…about to invest your time, your money and your resources, you need to secure the brand first.”
    — Rosina Samuels (19:24)

  • Viral brands are vulnerable to losing legal ground if they wait; proving first use is expensive and burdensome.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The importance of self-protection:

  “Don’t allow people to trick you out of your greatness and tell you that a trademark is not necessary.”
  — Rosina Samuels (03:22)

• AI’s limits:

  “A fourth of our clients…they did my trademark with ChatGPT and now I got an office action and I can’t figure it out.”
  — Rosina Samuels (07:27)

• On legal representation:

  “Who was that attorney that was sitting on the side of you…to allow you not to even own part of your project?”
  — Rosina Samuels (13:25)

• On Kanye West’s business acumen:

  “The biggest thing Kanye knew was owning the name. If they fire me, they gonna lose something too, because I take the name with me.”
  — Rosina Samuels (14:05)

• On not building without ownership:

  “Would you build a house on land you don’t own?”
  — Rosina Samuels (19:18)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:17] – Patent vs. Trademark advice; Lonnie Johnson example.
• [05:52] – Scaling a law firm, responsible use of AI vs. workforce replacement.
• [12:16] – How to check if your attorney is acting in your interest.
• [14:45] – The risks of using AI for legal advice.
• [16:28] – Trademark classes and international considerations.
• [19:18] – When to trademark: before or after gaining traction.

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Takeaways for Entrepreneurs

• Don’t skip legal protection: Secure your brand (trademarks, patents when appropriate) early.
• Vet your legal team: Always ask about ownership and get a second opinion if unsure.
• Be cautious with AI: Use it to enhance, not substitute, critical business decisions like legal filings.
• Think global: File trademarks in every country where you plan to do business or manufacture.
• Move strategically: Don’t wait for growth to protect your most valuable asset—your brand.

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Overall Tone:
Informal, practical, and urgent—aimed at empowering Black entrepreneurs to guard their ownership, outsmart predatory practices, and position their businesses for lasting success. Rosina Samuels blends legal expertise with relatable anecdotes, while the hosts keep the conversation accessible and actionable.

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Transcript

[Rosina Samuels]

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[Rosina Samuels]

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[Interviewer]

So I gotta ask you some business questions, some legal questions. I know we had Julian Brown. His episode went really viral and one clip went really, really viral where he said it's a mistake to try to patent something because if you patent something, then it goes on the registry and pretty much it's just open source for people to steal your ideas. Big companies could take it, they could sue you so he advised people not to patent.

[Rosina Samuels]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What's your thoughts?

[Rosina Samuels]

So let me say this. So there's four different types of intellectual property, right? So. So a trade secret will last as long as it's a secret. A patent only lasts for 20 years, but a trademark will last as long as you use it. You will not lose it. I'm a trademark attorney. Right. And so Coca Cola has been registered since 1893. Mercedes been registered since 1903. So what I will tell people is don't allow people to trick you out of your greatness and tell you that a trademark is not necessary. Now what Julian was talking about, and I actually met Julian at Invest Fest, what he was talking about, it's a, it's a smart and it's a strategic move. But also what I would encourage Julian because he talked, he said he spoke to some CEO that was, I think he was the founder or the inventor of the something series. Something. He, he referenced the guy in the interview. What I would say is, is that Julian should probably talk to someone like Mr. Lonnie Johnson. Mr. Lonnie Johnson is an inventor that works for NASA who is a black inventor. Right. He INV SOCA and he actually won multi million dollar lawsuits because people infringed on his patent. And so again, sometimes we don't. I understand his thought process behind it because when you do apply for a patent, all of your information is not a secret anymore, right. And so you do want to, you know, talk through to see what's your better options. Because I always tell people the law is not a one size fit all garment. What may been best for them may not be best for you depending on the technology. You know, you want to just talk to people and you might not have to disclose all proprietary things. Also I would say talk to patent attorneys who are looking out for your best interest. You know what I'm saying? I know a few of them if he needs that. But it depends, it really just depends. But as far as Ms. Delani Johnson, who is a black inventor who worked at NASA, who had a register patent on the Super Soaker and who has benefited, I would say, you know, that's probably somebody he will want to get his guidance from because he's been through it and been through the process. Another thing I would say is because he did talk about like fighting these big companies when it comes to infringement and things like that. But what they don't tell you is there's actually intellectual property investors that will invest in your lawsuit. They like, these are hedge Fund guys. And so all they do is invest in lawsuits if they feel like the probability of you winning is a big chance. Right. So I see too many times where they try to trick us, us right out of our greatness, tell us not to secure our intellectual property. But when you have intellectual property, when you have, you know, assets, real estate like your, Your portfolio can be so much bigger and so much valuable. So I would just say just be careful who you get your advice from and talk to people more so that been through it that look more like you. Because it's a lot of people out here that are trying to trick us out our greatness. This.

[Podcast Host]

I appreciate that. Now you. You talked about being with us since day one. Congratulations to you. I don't want that to go over our heads. You said 6,000 clients. That's a lot. That's a lot. So talk about scaling in. In this environment, obviously, it's, it's. I mean, it's tough out here for a lot of people. But your business is scaling at, at a time like this, I wonder, number one, how you've gone about that. Right? Cause sometimes they say, don't scale too fast. The other part is we talk about technology here all the time. Has AI been a part of that scalability and if, if so how you been using it?

[Rosina Samuels]

Yeah, so for me, I've been trying to use AI very responsibly. Like, I'm a CEO, so I want to be smart about things. I don't want to be the CEO like Blockbuster and block myself out of business and not pay attention to what's trending and what's happening. But I do want to be conscious about it. You know, like, I'm in the state of Georg, Georgia. I've been here since 2017. And you know, Georgia has like some of the. Well, we have. This is the state with the most data centers. And, you know, people are complaining about high electricity and things like. So I'm trying to be also conscious about the situation also, too. I just believe if we, you know, there's a lot of CEOs that want to replace their workforce with AI technology. But if we replace the workforce, then how can the people create revenue to actually consume the product? Right. So what I have done with my team is I asked, I went to them and I said, how do you think AI can help you? I'm not a CEO trying to figure out how can I use AI to replace my team, but how can I create, how can they use it to benefit them so that we can have a More efficient process. So the client experience is better. Because right now, truth be told, like a fourth of our clients, they either tried to file their trademark themselves and at one point they went through, you know, all these other, you know, Internet data companies. But now lately the biggest call we've been getting is, you know, I did my trademark with chat GPT and now I got an office action and I can't figure it out, right? And so what I would tell entrepreneurs is like, yeah, you want to understand it, you want to understand how to utilize it in your marketplace, but also be willing to invest in your business and your brand so that you stand out. So people like AI is no competition for me. Like I, you know, I've been ranked number eight out of over 33,000 trademark attorneys in this country. My law firm is in the top 50 out of, for the past seven years because I do great work. And also too, we got people here that really, we just, we just care, you know, we care about our clients, we care about their goals. Even if they can't afford to do all these trademarks at one time, right? We're able to say, okay, well let's work on a plan to do it in this way. So we use it in a way slightly but consciously to help us enhance our process. But as a CEO, I'm not utilizing it to replace my team, if that makes sense.

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[Co-Host or Interviewer]

You said something very important earlier. How? What are like two or three ways you will know if an attorney is looking out for your best interest versus their own?

[Rosina Samuels]

Yeah, so that's, that's a really good question. And what I would say is just always question where the ownership lies, right? Because I used to work in entertainment industry and I came in in 2013 where you know at this time, everything was shifted from CDs to MP3s and things like that. And I'm looking at certain contracts where they still got breakage clause in the contract. And you gotta have a, that's willing to push back on that status quo, right? And tell you like, and point these type of things out. Because why do we have a breakage clause in a contract if we not shipping CDs or record players? And like, why you gonna charge me a 10% advance for that, right? So you always want to question, where does the ownership lies? Like, I look at a lot of our celebrities and a lot of times they're being fired from projects that they created on their own. And it's like, well, what. Who was that attorney that was sitting on the side of you to allow you not to even own part of your project? So the people across from you to actually fire you from something you created? So now you got a question to ask yourself. Are they really sitting here on the side of you to represent you or is it a best, is it an interest on the other side of the table for them? So you, even if you don't really understand how to digest contracts and things like that, you gotta just, I would say start with asking where does the ownership lies and if they have a problem with that, and that's cool. Everybody don't want to be owners, but at least let's be some partners that way you can, you can't just out me. You know, honestly, like Kanye, Kanye did it so well, people. I'm from Chicago, so, you know, I gotta get Midwest. Yes, I gotta give it to him. Because, you know, the, the biggest thing that Kanye knew that was important was owning the name, right? And so when he knew, okay, if I own Yeezy, if they fire me, they gonna lose something too, because I take the name with me and it goes with me. So I would just say when you're talking to different advisors and counselors, you know, push back and question those things. And if you don't feel comfortable with that, those answers get a second or a third opinion. Because you never want to be locked down, especially in a contract where there's a 20 year term or 30 year term and you locked into it and you don't fully understand it.

[Interviewer]

So would you advise people to use CHAT GBT or use AI to read the contract and so they can understand it?

[Rosina Samuels]

So I would advise you get an attorney. Here's why I use ChatGPT for certain things, right? Because I'm not the best marketer, right? But I also know how to push back. For instance, lawyers are not supposed to pay referral fees. Lawyers, dentists, doctors. Right, we're not supposed to pay referral fees. In the event you pay a referral fee, you could be disbarred to a non practicing professional or a non practicing attorney. I'm on chat and I'm talking about a marketing initiative. And chat like, well, Rosina, you should just do a marketing initiative where you do a referral program where you could pay people. And I'm like, well, chat, according to the ABA rule, American Bar rule, I can't pay. So if, if you don't know that, right? Because AI is still learning itself, right? And AI is pulling data from every single person. If they don't, it's kind of like the blind leading the blind, if that makes sense. Now I'll tell you, I redecorated my office and redecorated my front room using, you know, AI and things like that. But for things that it revolves your business and your ownership and things like that, you still want to have, you know, just a guiding principle. Because if I, if I had not cited that law to it and I didn't know any better, I could have just ran with it. And that's what we're seeing right now, where a lot of people have utilized AI to file these applications and now it's wrong. And now they got to pay us to either come in and fix it or now we got to file it all over again. Because it's just rough to begin with.

[Podcast Host]

The trademarking thing is pretty interesting and it's something that people should learn, especially like if you are a vendor and if you have a brand, talk about the different categories and how many categories should you be trademarking your brand, I. E. Your clothing line? Because until you try to do it, you don't realize that there might be 20 different things that you could be using your name for. You might want to use it later. Do you want to protect yourself and get as many categories as possible, or is it category specific? And then the other piece is, do we start looking at it from an international standpoint, depending on the size of the business? How should we go about that?

[Rosina Samuels]

That's a great question. So there are 45 different classes under trademark law. So one through 34 is products, so goods, and then 35 through 45 is services. Right. And so if, let's say, for instance, you are a podcaster and you're educating people on investing, right. And so then you want to also you launch an investment app, like teaching them and guiding them on investing principles. That may be two classes that you may fall under. Also too, for apparel, if you're going to launch an apparel line under that brand, that's also a third class that you need to file under. Now, let's say you're going to go to China to get those goods actually produced. The apparel line now under the US US Is a first to use jurisdiction, but China is the first to file jurisdiction. So I tell clients, before you even go and do business in China, because it's a different country and a foreign country, you got to understand the laws. And before you even develop that manufacturing relationship with your manufacturer, file the trademark first. Why? Because it's a first to file. And we have seen situations where clients in the US have went to China, you know, had products manufactured through China and what happened is, is the, the deal falls apart or the manufacturer is somehow. So they filed the trademark in China, so now they're reproducing and this is how a lot of counterfeits are created and things like that. Now you can file your trademark in the US and you could file with US Customs, border patrol to try to keep some of that stuff out of the US but it's just best to have that protection there. In here, you can go to the Chinese government and have those rights enforced over there. But if they filed it first, it becomes harder. And those 45 different classes, they apply internationally to all, all different countries. All the countries.

[Podcast Host]

Gotcha.

[Co-Host or Interviewer]

For the entrepreneurs and creatives, do you think they should trademark before they have traction, or do you think they should get a little bit of traction and then file for the trademark? I know you get this a lot, but for the audience.

[Rosina Samuels]

So I would ask you, would you build a house on land you don't own?

[Co-Host or Interviewer]

It's a great conversation.

[Rosina Samuels]

No, no. So if you're not, if you plan house with your business, then, yeah, go, go try to get some traction. But in this day and age where social media, we got the Internet, we can't. If you're not, if you're in this, with this business and you're about to invest your time, your money and your resources, you need to secure the brand first. Why? Because so many brands can go viral so quick, Right. And now under the law, if your brand goes viral really fast and what the government can say is it fails to function as a trademark because it actually can't. You can't identify who the source is because it took off so fast and it's so rapid. Right. So like that big case where they were saying like those two guys trademark White Lives Matter and Kanye not gonna be able to use it. Like any real lawyer who took trademark one on one know that was just a lie. That whole story was a lot. Why? Because Black Lives Matter is not a trademark and can't be trademarked. Why? Because the government had already said it failed to function as a trademark. So Black Lives Matter can't be registered. We know White Lives can't be registered. White Lives Matter can't be registered as well. And plus Kanye actually, and it's not something I agree with, but he used it first. Right? Because the US is a use base. Now here's the thing. You could do your business and it could go viral like Mr. Tendonism and things like that. And because you have first usage, you can prove that you filed it first. But then it's going to cost you 25 times as much to file what we call the opposition to the application that was filed before yours in order to prove that you were the first user. And you will have the burden of proof to show that you were the first user. So that's why I just tell people, if you serious about the business, you know this is something you're. And if you're about to invest more than you know what the trademark costs anyway, you might as well just protect it because you're protecting your best investment. Like we all protect our cars before we drive them off the lot by getting insurance.

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[Rosina Samuels]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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Guaranteed Human.