The Music Industry Was Designed to Keep Artists Broke! Here's How?

Summary

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Episode Summary: The Music Industry Was Designed to Keep Artists Broke! Here's How?

Earn Your Leisure Podcast | Hosted by Rashad Bilal & Troy Millings
Date: June 28, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Earn Your Leisure dives deep into the controversial mechanics and hidden traps of the music industry, focusing on how its business structures keep artists in cycles of debt and financial dependency—even when achieving massive commercial success. Through first-hand stories and expert insights, the hosts and guests demystify royalty payments, advances, record deals, and the "debt model" that perpetuates artists’ financial struggles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Major Label Debt Trap

• French Montana's Revelation (06:50-07:06)

  • Despite selling 10 million records with his hit song "Unforgettable," French Montana never made money from it or from other label ventures—other than the initial advance.
  • "He said he never made money in his career other than an advance." —French Montana

• Explaining the System (07:11-08:16)

  • Advances are given up front, but are always "recouped" from future earnings, keeping artists indebted.
  • Label advances are enticing, but artists’ real income is continually buried under new deals, prolonging the debt.

• Never Recouping, Never Seeing Royalties (08:16-09:04)

  • Even writers and producers (not just performers) stay in debt.
  • "I have a diamond record, RCA, right now, and I'm still 149,000 in the hole." —Music Business Expert/Author

2. Opaque Royalty Calculations

• Difficulty Trusting Royalty Calculations (09:27-10:03)

  • There's a perpetual tradeoff: take the advance (guaranteed, but a debt) or hope for royalties (unverifiable).
  • "The only thing you really can trust is the advance... Who's calculating this 15%?" —French Montana

• Forensic Accounting Is Essential (09:04-09:27)

  • Uncovering what’s truly owed often requires hiring a specialized forensic accountant.
  • "You have to find someone that reads charts, that understands what's missing, and that can help you get your money. This guy’s found billions of dollars." —Music Business Expert/Author

• Advances vs. Royalties for Superstars (10:03-10:35)

  • Even superstar deals (such as Drake’s or Taylor Swift’s) are rarely as lucrative as headlines suggest, because much of the advance pays back label debts or prior obligations.

3. Cross-Collateralization & The Role of Labels

• Labels as Banks (10:35-10:51)

  • Labels “cross-collateralize” debts between albums, so earnings from one album pay off advances from another, further muddying accounting.
  • "It's a bank. Keep them in debt. As long as they in debt, they ain't looking at our books." —Music Business Expert/Author

• Artist Advances Finance Labels’ Lifestyles (11:18-11:28)

  • The lavish spending by label execs—on buildings, dinners, and perks—is, in effect, paid for by advances against artists’ future earnings.

4. Why Aren’t There More Exposés?

• Lack of Authoritative Industry Guides (11:28-11:57)

  • Existing books—like Everything You Need to Know About the Music Business—cover some basics, but the real-life contracts, advances, and pitfalls often go unrecorded.

• New Books Addressing Modern Artist Realities (11:57-15:47)

  • Music Business Expert/Author talks about his upcoming prequel book, The Artist Agreements, which focuses on creative entry and business pitfalls.

5. Deal Structures That Trap Artists

• Perpetuity Clauses (16:16-16:29)

  • Any contract containing "perpetuity" means the artist gives up rights forever—a scenario to be avoided at all costs.
  • "The worst deals ever have the word perpetuity in it." —Music Business Expert/Author

• Hit Singles Not Counting Toward Album Deals (16:31-17:21)

  • Even a triple platinum single may not count toward an artist’s contractual album obligations if not officially released as part of an album.

• Renegotiation and Hidden Contractual Loopholes (17:10-17:23)

  • The guest learned to renegotiate away from MDRC (Minimum Delivery Release Commitment) clauses that limited what releases “counted” toward contract fulfillment.

6. Low Industry Literacy & Why the System Persists

• The ‘Low IQ’ Allegory (17:39-19:50)

  • The music industry preys on the fact that many creative people are inexperienced with contract law and financial systems.
  • This isn’t necessarily an insult—the “creative gene” is prioritized, but that leaves artists vulnerable.
  • "The music industry is the easiest business to win in because everybody in it, for the most part, is low IQ. ...They live in their creative gene." —Music Business Expert/Author

• The Future: Entrepreneurial Disruption

  • There is optimism that as more business-minded people and entrepreneurs enter, the industry will change. For now, most deals overwhelmingly and purposely disadvantage the talent.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Never Receiving Royalties:
  "I have a diamond record... and I'm still 149,000 in the hole."
  —Music Business Expert/Author (08:13)

• On Advances vs. Royalties:
  "You give me $2 million. That I know what that is. You saying... just take a 15 royalty for it... Who's calculating this 15?"
  —French Montana (09:29)

• On Label Tactics:
  "Every record label: keep them in debt."
  —Music Business Expert/Author (10:37)

• On Perpetuity in Contracts:
  "The worst deals ever have the word perpetuity in it."
  —Music Business Expert/Author (16:27)

• On Exploiting the Creative Mind:
  "Low IQ just means that they live in their creative gene... The brain is not being used in the music business."
  —Music Business Expert/Author (17:49-18:07)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• [06:50] French Montana’s Testimony: Major label, hit single, still broke.
• [07:11] The Insider’s Explanation: How debt is perpetuated and hidden.
• [08:13] Even Diamond Hits Don’t Deliver: Writers/producers always in debt.
• [09:04] The Need for Forensic Accountants: Why “seeing your royalties” is fiction.
• [10:35] How Cross-Collateralization Works: Labels are banks.
• [11:28] Scarcity of Tell-All Books: Gaps in public knowledge.
• [16:16] The Dangers of “Perpetuity” in Deals: Contracts to avoid.
• [16:50] Singles Versus Albums: What “counts” toward a deal.
• [17:39] On Industry Literacy: Why the exploitative system persists.

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• The music industry’s financial architecture is intentionally opaque and designed to keep artists reliant on upfront advances, deeply in debt, and cut off from the real profits of their own work.
• Understanding the mechanics of contracts, the meaning of advances, royalties, and recoupment is crucial for anyone entering the business.
• The vast majority of success stories you see are heavily subsidized by artists’ future earnings, with record labels acting like banks—structuring deals to keep talent from ever “breaking even.”
• There is hope as more business-savvy creators and entrepreneurs enter the space, but education and transparent advocacy are badly needed.

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Recommended Listening for Aspiring Artists:
Start with classic guides like Everything You Need to Know About the Music Business, but seek out new resources and stay vigilant about contract terms, especially around “advances,” “recoupment,” and “perpetuity.”

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Transcript

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[Music Industry Insider]

What's up?

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[French Montana]

French Montana comes out tomorrow.

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Network

[French Montana]

and he was saying what most people say when they leave the major label. There's no major label system. He said he never made money from major label. He said that outside of his advance. He said he sold 10 million records with that song with Swae Lee. He said he never, he never made

[Music Industry Insider]

money from that song.

[French Montana]

He never made money in his career other than an advance.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

I can tell you why, why nobody has okay, so this is a little dirty secret in the music business that we don't talk about enough. But the problem, the reason why nobody's able to make money in the music business as far as producers and writers on their points and stuff like that is because artists always take out advances against the money coming. So yeah, you might not have got paid for Unforgettable, but because instead of waiting for the nine months for them to calculate or get your money, they came back to you and said hey, shit's doing good. You want another Deal. And you said, why not? All they did was bury the debt under that new deal and keep it there. Like, it's like. Like you can be. Most major artists are in debt at major labels on purpose. That's the model that they play.

[Music Industry Insider]

That's the design of the business.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

Because if we keep them in debt, they're not forensically looking at the companies now. They just got an advance. That is every. I. I want you to ask Rashad, anytime you ask an artist or executive, make this a part of your questions. Do you know anybody that ever got a royalty check? So I have a diamond record, RCA, right now, and I'm still 200,000, I think at the last royalty statement I got, I'm still 149,000 in the hole.

[French Montana]

How explain. So what diamond. What record is it?

[Music Industry Insider]

Extortion?

[Music Business Expert/Author]

Oh, it's. It's a record idea of my guys. Rock City Locked Away without a feature. Adam Levine, it was a big pop record, but it's Diamonds. And I'm like, we never got a royalty check forever.

[French Montana]

So you're saying.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

Now watch. Now I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna just say this real quick for the first time, because we hot. I was able to negotiate a deal without. Without debt, basically. What's it called? Unrecoverable points. I negotiate that. We did one record last year. One record. I made it. We made. I think we probably made about 800-900K from that song in royalties in less than a year of it being released. I mean, and within a year of it being released because we got our points. Unrecoupable. You can't count it against debt. My points come to me from $1. Most points, most deals you get paid. When do we know you recouped?

[Wasabi Representative]

Yeah.

[Music Industry Insider]

And for the artists and for the business people, how can you even track when they recoup? If you're not allowed to see the

[Music Business Expert/Author]

accounting, you have to hire a forensic expert. I know one, by the way. I'm starting a company with them.

[French Montana]

Forensic accounting.

[Music Industry Insider]

Smart.

[Malcolm Glauble]

Yeah.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

You have to find someone that reads charts, that understands what's missing, and that can help you get your money. This guy's found billions of dollars.

[French Montana]

Yeah, we were talking to French Montana about that. But it's not even just the music industry. You look at book industry, you look at any type of thing. Like, it's like anytime somebody says, know the royalty thing, It's a catch 22. Because it's like they always say, don't take advanced money, take the royalty money. But then I Gotta trust you. I don't know what the royalty money actually is, you guys. So the only thing you really can trust is the advance. Because that's money right here in my pocket right now. That I know, I know you give me $2 million. That I know what that is. You saying, okay, the smart thing is don't take no money up front. Just take a 15 royalty for it for, for the perpetuity of the album, bro. Who, who's calculating this 15?

[Music Business Expert/Author]

But, but to me, to me, that's when it become. You have to have your business together and like, you just have to understand it. But dog, it's so many. I remember watching Pone probably has never seen a royalty check and he's one of the biggest streaming artists of all time. Taylor Swift probably has. But when they said Drake got, you know, they said Drake got half a Billy. That half of Billy was probably 450 million of it was probably money that they owed him.

[Music Industry Insider]

Oh, them.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

And then what they do with. They sell Rashad his half a billion. Now go make us five more albums. And he's so happy that he got half. He realizing they owe me that.

[Music Industry Insider]

Then they get to cross collateralize it.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

Yeah, this is the difference between the mate. This is the object of every record label. Keep them in debt.

[Music Industry Insider]

So, so it operates like a bank.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

It's a bank. Keep them in debt. As long as they in debt, they ain't looking at our books. Ain't nobody like ain't nobody 3 million in the hole saying, let me go look at y'.

[Ryan Reynolds]

All.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

Books your ass down trying to find an extra 100k, you know what I mean? But like if you, if you like right at that cusp and you like, that's how I think 50 Cent got out his deal with Interscope. He, he, he audited them, found out they owed him like $18 million and was like, just let me be free instead of paying me the 18 million. And that's how he got, that's how the room. I heard how you got out his deal. These labels play dirty games, bro. But when you look at the big buildings and the security and the nice dinners and the corporate cards, who the is paying for all of that?

[Music Industry Insider]

Yes,

[Music Business Expert/Author]

we are. They give us advances, then we pay for their lifestyle and then we go make money from other things. That's how everybody has done it.

[Music Industry Insider]

For anyone who wants to break into the industry, what is there a book that you can recommend and like, why hasn't anyone written a. Not a tell all but like a business book about the music industry.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

Well, the book that everybody says to read is back in the day, everything you need to know about the music business. I, I wrote the prequel to that book and it's called the Artist Agreements. I'm like literally talking to publishers right now and it's like how I describe it is, is it's like how you, it's like it's the prequel to his book.

[Financial Advisor/Empower Representative]

We talk a lot about ownership and one of the most important assets you can own is your digital real estate. Too. Many entrepreneurs rely on social media platforms they don't control. Your website should be the center of your business. Framer helps you build a professional website without all the friction. It's more than a website builder. It's a complete website platform. Your entire team can collaborate in real time, make changes instantly, and publish updates in minutes instead of days. Framer's AI agents work alongside your team to create content, refine pages, manage your cms, and optimize your SEO all in one place. And because everything stays editable on the same canvas, you maintain complete control over what goes live. That's why everyone from startups to Fortune 500 companies and brands like Perplexity and Miro trust Framer to power their websites. Learn how you can get more out of your site from Framer specialists or get started building for [e-mail] earn for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. That's Framer.com earn for 30 percent off Framer.com earn rules and restrictions may apply.

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business has an ambition. PayPal open is the platform designed to help you grow into yours with access to business loans so you can expand and hundreds of millions of PayPal customers worldwide. Your customers can pay all the ways they want today with PayPal, Venmo, pay later and all major cards so you can focus on the future when you need a partner trusted by millions. There's one platform for all business PayPal open grow today at paypalopen.com loans subject to approval in available locations.

[Wasabi Representative]

Innovation is what gets your business to market and Wasabi is designed to give every business a shot at competition. How Break free from skyrocketing storage costs and unpredictable egress fees from old and top heavy legacy providers. You know the big guys Wasabi Wasabi is the world's hottest cloud storage company and the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams and leagues around the world. And here's why. Innovation from Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage Wasabi Air to the industry's only cloud storage service with triple protection against cybercriminals, data deletion and ransomware. The world's top companies trust Wasabi. Remember, Wasabi is up to 80% less than market competition and doesn't charge a cent for businesses to access their own data. Wasabi Another championship story. Check them out for [e-mail] Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage Proud partner of Iheart Podcast Network.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

His book tells you about the business. You don't need to know the business if you ain't in this. Yeah, like you come in the room to my asking about your Masters, you ain't even made a hit yet. You don't even know how to write the song. So my book is showing you how to be creative and get into the business and then you do it. But I wrote one because I feel the same way you feel. I'm just like, man, why don't nobody think that this is important? Music is. Sports are going to be the one thing that every kid is going to want to get into at some point in their life. Sports has got it figured the fuck out. Yeah, music we still learning.

[French Montana]

What? What's the worst deal that you that ever? Like what's the worst deal ever?

[Music Business Expert/Author]

Like what you mean like. Like the worst deals ever keep you trapped in it and don't Return the shit back to you. The worst deals ever have the word perpetuity in it.

[Music Industry Insider]

Oh, perfect. That's a lifetime. Yeah.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

Yes. The worst deals. Like, like. Like, let me give y' all some that I had to learn. All right, so you remember that song, Mike Will. Miley Cyrus, Wiz Khalifa, Juicy J in the club high of perk with some shades on. Yeah, we did that record, right? Record goes triple platinum. Yeah, we got the royalty check for it, but it doesn't count.

[Music Industry Insider]

What you mean?

[Music Business Expert/Author]

Okay, so it was a single. It wasn't released on an album. The only way records counted in your deal is if they were released on

[Music Industry Insider]

an album on the actual album.

[French Montana]

Yeah.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

So Mike put that out as a single.3 million platinum goes triple platinum. We don't get that. Don't count against ideal. That's when I want to start renegotiating. That's when I figured out, like, what.

[Music Industry Insider]

That's insane.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

And I renegotiated my deal to take MDRC out and just make it releases, you know? I mean, people are stuck in deals right now because they putting out music, and it's just not coming out on one of the three majors. That don't count.

[Music Industry Insider]

Yeah. Or they won't allow you to.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

Yeah. Like, it's like, it's. It's a. It's a dirty game. And it's all about rights, and it's all about people who aren't talented trying to maintain rights to the people who are.

[Music Industry Insider]

If you have to do it all over again, would you still go into the music industry knowing everything that, you know, Would you pick another industry?

[Music Business Expert/Author]

I. I would. I would go on this. I would have ran circles around it. The music industry is the easiest business to win in because everybody in it, for the most part, is low iq.

[Music Industry Insider]

Tell me more.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

Okay, What I mean. Let me tell what I mean by that is. In low IQ is not disrespectful. Low IQ just means that they. They. They live in their creative gene.

[Music Industry Insider]

Okay?

[Music Business Expert/Author]

That's what makes Jay Z so ill and even Nas now, because they're not just brilliantly talented.

[Malcolm Glauble]

Yeah.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

The master, brilliant businessman also.

[Music Industry Insider]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

You feel me? So when I say the music business has low iq, people, meaning it's like. Like my. If a puts out a song in the hood of Kansas City, and he's the hottest in the world, and now you got all these big people and all these buildings talking to him.

[Music Industry Insider]

This.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

Don't know what the game. He don't understand that part of the game. I'm just on the Phone arguing with an artist because he's like, but my lawyer said. But my lawyer said. I'm like, your lawyer only says that because that's how he gets paid, bro. Listen to someone that plays the game. So what I mean by that is like, this business is hard to work in. That's why so many people fall out with artists. Because the artists, they're not coming in thinking, they're coming in feeling. The brain is not being used in the music business. The feeling is I feel like Rashad could take me farther than Ray, so I'm gonna fuck Ray over. Because I feel so it's, it's. And it's based on fears. Like, hey, you know, come over here with us. You might not ever get there. It's based on fear. So for me, it's like the easiest business to win in is the music business. Because, I mean, I don't want to say this to be an. But like, in what world does someone like a sexy red become as rich as she became without hip hop music?

[French Montana]

But when you said that low IQ people would. Because what people were thinking is that you're gonna take advantage of people. Like, it's like, it's like, but that.

[Music Business Expert/Author]

But that's the business we in. It is like, this is the only business where you have people signing to you for you to own 85% of them and them to get 15 of it willingness. That's not people. That's thinking. If the music business is going to change in the future because entrepreneurs enter it now. But when I say low IQ people, that's like, I'm a low IQ person. I, I thought maybe I could do music because I wasn't the smartest in school. Maybe I could figure music out. And then it was easy for me, but it wasn't. It's not. Go ahead.

[French Montana]

But when you say, you said, Ernest, what's up?

[Financial Advisor/Empower Representative]

Look, building wealth isn't just about making money. It's about knowing where your money is working for you. That's why we partner with Empower. Empower is all about helping you invest well so you can go out and live a little. Their free Empower personal Dashboard gives you a complete view of your financial life in one place. Track your net worth, monitor your budget, analyze your investments, set retirement goals and more. You've worked hard for your money, now make sure it's working hard for you. Download the Empower Personal dashboard or visit empower.com not an empowered client. Paid or sponsored.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] this is Malcolm Glauble

[Malcolm Glauble]

from Medal of Stories of Courage. This episode is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. At Navy Federal, they want you to know that if you need a positive sign towards achieving your goal of homeownership, this is it. Because even though today's housing market can seem discouraging, the Home Buyer's Choice Loan offers members down payment options as low as 0% with no required private mortgage insurance. Look for your sign today. Navy Federal Credit Union. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA Equal Housing Lender. Terms and conditions apply. Loans subject to approval and eligibility requirements. Learn more@navy federal.org Zerodown Running a business

[CarMax/Odoo/Sheba Announcer]

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