The War Between Netflix & YouTube: How Podcasting & Content is Being Reshaped with Ian Schwartzman

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The War Between Netflix & YouTube – How Podcasting & Content is Being Reshaped

Earn Your Leisure (Jan 13, 2026) – With Ian Schwartzman

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Overview

This episode explores seismic shifts in the podcasting and content worlds, focusing on the emerging battle between Netflix and YouTube. With Netflix’s entry into podcast distribution—buying up suites of video podcasts (vodcasts)—the hosts and guest Ian Schwartzman debate what this means for content creators, business models, audience habits, and industry power dynamics. The conversation also touches on the evolution of podcast contracts and ownership, laying bare how digital media’s business side is transforming in real time.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Netflix’s Foray into Podcasting—Industry Shakeup

• Netflix acquires podcast suites

  • Netflix’s move echoes its previous innovations, now licensing whole suites of podcasts (e.g., from iHeartMedia) for its platform rather than developing original talk shows one at a time.
  • This provides an alternative for creators frustrated with YouTube’s dominance, but also interrupts audience habits.
  • Joel: "YouTube has been taking advantage of creators for a long time and...there’s no alternative to YouTube. Netflix obviously [offers] a higher level of production.” (04:12)

• Impact on viewership habits

  • YouTube is "always-on" and mobile-friendly, ideal for casual consumption; Netflix is more of an intentional, sit-down experience.
  • Joel: “I’m going to be watching a lot less Breakfast Club content. Not because I don’t like the Breakfast Club, but I’m not on Netflix that like I’m on YouTube all day on my phone.” (04:23)
  • Netflix content can become viral (e.g., documentaries with billions of streams) but requires different user engagement.

The Content Monopoly Question

• Multiple distribution options are generally seen as positive, breaking YouTube’s effective monopoly but drawing concerns about fragmentation and shifting creator economics.

• Ian Schwartzman (Podcast Industry Analyst):
  “Netflix and YouTube are at war...trying to figure out how to take over the most listened to and watched content in the world, which is podcasting.” (09:32)

Business Model & Profit Motives

• Netflix is emulating Spotify’s strategy: original podcast/audio content is a way to reduce licensing fees paid to music and video studios, increasing margins.
• Ian Schwartzman:
  “We’re putting out two episodes a week, three hours each...The Joe Budden podcast gives you six hours of free public and then another six to eight hours paywalled. So we’re talking about between 12 and 20 hours a week. We own the market share. Netflix looks now and goes what Spotify did back in 2018.” (08:54)
• These changes are about quarter-by-quarter profit: owning the content, not just distributing studio projects.

Who Benefits from Deals—Creator vs. Platform Ownership

• Recent licensing deals (Netflix/iHeart, Spotify/The Ringer) rarely go directly to the show creators; networks/parent companies usually reap the biggest rewards.
• Ian Schwartzman:
  “I’m sure Spotify gets all the upside of the Netflix deal. I’m sure iHeart gets all the upside of the iHeart situation with all their shows.” (11:35)
  • Creators, in many cases, are not negotiating directly with platforms like Netflix.

Evolution of Podcast Contracts—Audio vs. Video Rights

• Old vs. New Contracts

  • Early podcast deals were audio-only; video rights were rarely considered.
  • Now, any major deal will include comprehensive video ("YouTube rights") clauses.
  • Matt:
    “In the original contracts, there is nothing for the video. Right...So now they’ve actually started putting...YouTube rights inside of the language of their contract.” (12:59–13:12)

• Ownership Among New Creators

  • New entrants often give up audio and video rights upfront, in exchange for larger checks—without understanding full long-term value.
  • Joel:
    “We’re talking about people that’s coming into the game right now in the past three or four years that they’re signing deals off the rip that’s giving up [their rights].” (14:33)

• Value Judgments

  • If networks/offers are high, creators should ask what they're really worth, referencing past music industry mistakes.
  • Matt:
    “If they offer you 1.2 and Master P said this 30 years ago, if they offered me one, I must be worth 100.” (15:07)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Streaming Wars:

  • “Netflix and YouTube are at war...trying to figure out how to take over the most listened to and watched content in the world, which is podcasting.”
    — Ian Schwartzman (09:32)

• On Consumption Habits:

  • “Netflix is something I have to actually take time, sit down...I’ve never really watched Netflix on my phone...if I’m watching just a random interview, I’m in the spur of the moment. I just want to listen to it on my car [on YouTube].”
    — Joel (04:23)

• On Platform Economics:

  • “What Spotify did back in 2018...‘Holy shit. We’re paying the labels all this money for...music licenses...but what if we enter the podcast market space...we don’t have to pay the labels their share because we’re doing original audio.’”
    — Ian Schwartzman (09:21)

• On Ownership and Contracts:

  • “In the original contracts, there is nothing for the video...now they’ve actually started putting YouTube rights...inside the language.”
    — Matt (12:59–13:12)
  • “If they offer you 2 million or 10 million for your video rights...they know they’re going to make 30 off of it.”
    — Matt (15:19)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:04 – Netflix’s suite acquisition of iHeart podcasts & creator impact
• 04:23 – YouTube vs. Netflix: How user habits differ
• 08:54 – Why podcast output matters for platforms; business model insights
• 09:32 – The streaming/content/cable war explained
• 11:35 – Creators vs. Parent company: Who profits from deals?
• 12:59 – Evolution from audio-only to video rights in podcast contracts
• 14:33 – New creators and quick rights sell-offs
• 15:07-15:19 – The “what’s your content truly worth?” question

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Tone & Language

The episode’s tone is candid, analytical, and laced with industry insider banter. Hosts and guest frequently refer to real-time changes in the business landscape, speak from personal contract experience, and caution creators to read the fine print as podcasting’s “gold rush” era gives way to more corporate control.

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Conclusion

The convergence of Netflix and YouTube on podcasting signals a new era—one where creator leverage, business models, and user consumption habits are all up for grabs. The hosts stress that while more big platforms can mean more opportunities, the true winners are often networks and distributors, not the creators themselves, unless they hold on to their rights and understand streaming economics. The advice: creators need to think long-term, scrutinize contracts, and pay attention to where industry tides are heading.

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Transcript

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[Joel from How to Money]

About Netflix, let's get into this conversation. So Netflix shaking up the industry. They just signed I hearts some of the I Heart podcast.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Yes.

[Joel from How to Money]

Breakfast Club Joe and Jada, like 19 shows. So I spoke to Charlemagne yesterday actually about this.

[Matt from How to Money]

Yeah.

[Joel from How to Money]

And he had an interesting take on it.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

What was his take?

[Joel from How to Money]

His take was that it's beneficial. You don't really know exactly how it's going to play out, but it's beneficial from the standpoint that YouTube has been taking advantage of creators for a long time and that there's no alternative to YouTube. Netflix obviously a higher level of production. So it's.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Is it.

[Joel from How to Money]

Traditionally Netflix showed, like you have to. Even if you're filming a documentary on Netflix, to my understanding, it has to be done with a certain level of camera or they're not going to even 4K. So YouTube, you could do anything. You could put anything on YouTube.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Yes, but, but okay, so keep going.

[Joel from How to Money]

So. So he was just saying that he felt that, like you said, he wasn't 100% sure of like the total outcome, but he just feels like, okay, you know, Netflix is, it's a, a situation that could potentially shake up the industry.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

And that I agree with.

[Joel from How to Money]

Add more options.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Better I agree.

[Joel from How to Money]

Than having like a monopoly in a sense as far as just YouTube controlling all of the content. And then I look at it from a standpoint of like, obviously that's going to come with certain level of guarantees as far as money going back to this situation. It also, some creators might be a little scared and nervous because it's like me personally, I'm going to be watching a lot less Breakfast Club content. Not because I don't like the Breakfast Club, but I'm not on Netflix that like I'm on YouTube all day on my phone.

[Matt from How to Money]

Right.

[Joel from How to Money]

Netflix is something I have to actually take time, sit down on my couch, 11 o' clock at night, scroll the television on. I make a conscious decision. I've never really watched Netflix on my phone other if I download a documentary on a plane.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Right.

[Joel from How to Money]

But if I'm watching just a random interview, I'm in the spur of the moment. I just want to listen to it on my car.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

You want to hit YouTube, get in, get out.

[Joel from How to Money]

But Netflix also, I mean, you know, they have shows that have Billion Diddy documentary has like billions of streams already in a couple of weeks. So.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

True.

[Joel from How to Money]

They've pushed it to their audience too. So things can go viral on Netflix as well.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Things do.

[Joel from How to Money]

Okay. Netflix coming in the podcast industry. You talked about it. It's kind of reminiscent of something that happened a couple of years ago. So let's, let's have this conversation.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Sure. I think Netflix and YouTube were at war. Podcasting changed the habits of listenership and viewership. Netflix and YouTube are at war with cable television viewers and podcast listenership across all DSPs. Vodcasts, which are the video side of the podcast, are becoming Innovation is what.

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[Podcast Industry Analyst]

So relevant and so imperative to premium platforms that without it, all you have are 10 to 12 episode programmatic shows like Ozark. And those take six months, two years to make. And then after three days of being out, what are people watching? What they've realized is what we've been saying for a long time. We're putting out two episodes a week, three hours each. We're giving. This is just publicly. So the the Joe Budden podcast gives you six hours of free public and then another six to eight hours paywalled. So we're talking about between 12 and 20 hours a week. We own the market share. Netflix looks now and goes what Spotify did back in 2018. Holy shit. We're paying the labels all this money for the music licenses we have. But what if we enter the podcast market space and don't have to pay the labels their share because we're doing original audio with podcasts. That means we don't have to pay the labels. We can collect profits every quarter, which means our stockholders will invest more money because they'll get a bigger dividend. I think the war is starting not only between YouTube and Netflix, but it's YouTube and Netflix trying to figure out how to take over the most listened to and watch content in the world, which is podcasting. This goes back to my vision for what my daughter is going to do for her first job. They're betting 10 years down the line right now. They don't give a fuck what show this is. Netflix. They don't care what works and what doesn't. That's why they're not negotiating with individual shows right now. Now, I don't know what your conversation with Charlamagne was, but he didn't negotiate that deal with Netflix. Right. I Heart.

[Joel from How to Money]

I don't know if I did or not, but it was I Heart saying.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

I Heart's the beneficiary.

[Joel from How to Money]

It was a suite of Iheart podcasts.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Yeah, keyword, It's a suite. Iheart was approached by Netflix, and now I'm speculating. I don't really know if this is how it works, but I'm using my better judgment. I Heart was approached by Netflix. Netflix came up with a really beneficial situation for Iheart to take their vodcasts and put them on a platform like Netflix. Not one at a time, a suite of them. And we just saw this recently happen with a competitor, Spotify, Bill Simmons and the ringer. They announced 14 of. I'm paraphrasing, 14 of his shows were going to be the first offerings from Spotify to Netflix for their partnership with Netflix. And my first thought was, didn't they buy the ringer from Bill Simmons? So that means Bill Simmons didn't negotiate with Netflix. I'm sure he's pretty angry right now. I'm sure Spotify gets all the upside of the Netflix deal. I'm sure Ieart gets all the upside of the iHeart situation with all their shows. And so what they're doing.

[Joel from How to Money]

Iheart doesn't own. We talk about this downstairs. Breakfast Club is different because that's a iheart entity. The individual shows. I don't know this for certain, but I know it.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

What shows are you referencing? Just give me a couple.

[Joel from How to Money]

Joe and Jada, They.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

They own their own show.

[Odoo Advertiser]

They don't.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

I'm asking.

[Joel from How to Money]

Yeah.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

So it's.

[Matt from How to Money]

It's interesting.

[Joel from How to Money]

What level?

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

You know, I don't know.

[Matt from How to Money]

Only because I was on the phone with Iheart yesterday.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Okay.

[Matt from How to Money]

Yeah, I was literally.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Tell me.

[Matt from How to Money]

I'm just looking for it.

[Joel from How to Money]

So a lot.

[Matt from How to Money]

What's changed is that what you're talking about is 100% correct. When podcasting started, it was just the audio experience.

[Joel from How to Money]

Right.

[Matt from How to Money]

And then a lot of shows you. We had. We started with. It became a video experience.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Right? Exactly.

[Matt from How to Money]

In the original contracts, there is nothing for the video. Right.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Those are old school.

[Matt from How to Money]

Old school contracts. So now they've actually started putting language. Language. This guy's good. YouTube rights. Inside of the language of their contract.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Or video rights.

[Matt from How to Money]

Or video rights. So now if you sign a deal.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Like if I'm Joe and Jada in 2024, I start my podcast. Do you think I don't know who they have a deal with, but they have a deal? Yeah, let's just say they have a deal with some network. Do you think that their deal didn't include video rights in 2024 and 5?

[Matt from How to Money]

Yeah, and I'm sure it did because the language has changed even in negotiating contracts and even with us. Like in our contracts. It was like, no, no, no.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

What's the matter?

[Matt from How to Money]

No, it's real. These are real conversations. It was like, look, not something that we're interested in. Right. Because we. We built this independently.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Right, of course.

[Matt from How to Money]

And so most people don't have a video component of their podcast. Today's day, they do. Labels know that. Labels being the powers of the corporation. The corporations. And so now it's in the contract.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Yes. Right.

[Matt from How to Money]

So they'll throw a little bit more money in it.

[Joel from How to Money]

Okay, when you say standard. Hold on. Let's not just.

[Matt from How to Money]

Yeah.

[Joel from How to Money]

Lump every. Because we can't do that.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

What's the matter? You afraid of offending somebody?

[Matt from How to Money]

What can we do?

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

What is going on here?

[Matt from How to Money]

Anyone's contract?

[Joel from How to Money]

I'm just saying that what I heard.

[Matt from How to Money]

In the Spotify's of the world are.

[Joel from How to Money]

Offering now, I'm saying for us, we've never given up any level of video at all. That's what I just said. But I know that there's other people. 85 south, they never gave up their video.

[Matt from How to Money]

But so now think about when did they start?

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

They started a long time.

[Joel from How to Money]

A long time ago.

[Matt from How to Money]

Exactly. I'm talking about the new world.

[Joel from How to Money]

We're talking about people that's coming into the game right now in the past three or four years that they're signing deals off the rip.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Yes, yes.

[Joel from How to Money]

That's giving up.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

No, no, no, stop. Don't ask the question now. Now we're gonna. Now we're gonna sound crazy. You're not gonna do this with me.

[Matt from How to Money]

Yeah, let me.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Yes, they are off the.

[Joel from How to Money]

Off the rip.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Yes.

[Matt from How to Money]

Or they don't have any yet.

[Joel from How to Money]

No.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Because they want a bigger check.

[Matt from How to Money]

That's that part too. And they haven't even experienced what it is to be.

[Joel from How to Money]

But they know that they're gonna. It's not like YouTube is a secret at this point. Or they. They know that video is a major part. Probably more people might even watch the video than they listen to the audio.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

That is a fact.

[Matt from How to Money]

Well, who knows it better? They know, like you said, they're looking at it. It's the same Thing that you said earlier, if they offer you 1.2 and masterpiece this 30 years ago, if they offered me one, I must be worth 100.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

There you go.

[Matt from How to Money]

They know if they offer you 2 million or 10 million for your video rights and your audio rights, they know they're going to make 30 off of it.

[Joel from How to Money]

Right?

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

Because no one's, no one's investing to get their money back.

[Matt from How to Money]

Right? They invested to make the profit.

[Podcast Industry Analyst]

There's a margin, earners, what's up?

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