“They Don’t Want Us to Have the Info!” Math Hoffa, Ray Daniels & Obi Omile Expose the Game

Summary

Earn Your Leisure Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: “They Don’t Want Us to Have the Info!” Math Hoffa, Ray Daniels & Obi Omile Expose the Game
Hosts: Rashad Bilal, Troy Millings (EYL Network)
Release Date: May 22, 2025

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1. Introduction of Guests

In this episode, hosts Rashad Bilal and Troy Millings welcome three influential guests: Math Hoffa, Ray Daniels, and Obi Omile. Each brings a unique perspective from the intersections of hip-hop, entrepreneurship, and content creation.

Notable Quote:
[01:39] Obi Wan: “This is going to be a fun episode.”

2. Profiles and Backgrounds

• Ray Daniels
  Originating from New York, Ray is described as a "cultural referee" with extensive experience in the music industry. He transitioned from a music executive to a content producer during the pandemic, gaining recognition as a content creator.

  Notable Quote:
  [02:11] Mav Hoffa: “Ray was actually in the music business for a long time executive and then during the pandemic actually started to produce content.”

• Obi Omile
  Obi is the co-founder of The Cut, a leading barber scheduling app with approximately 8 million users nationwide. The app streamlines the process of finding and booking barbers, enhancing convenience for users across various cities.

  Notable Quote:
  [03:38] Obi Wan: “The number one app to find a barber anywhere around the country. We have about 8 million users.”

• Math Hoffa
  Recognized as a pioneer in battle rap culture, Math Hoffa bridges the worlds of hip-hop and podcasting. His contributions have significantly shaped the landscape of freestyle battles and content creation.

  Notable Quote:
  [04:27] Ray Daniels: “Math was policing. I was like, we just having fun with rap. Nah, nah, it's not fun.”

3. The Cut: Building a Barber Scheduling Empire

Obi Omile delves into the inception and growth of The Cut. The app was conceived in 2015, inspired by the rise of service-based platforms like Uber and Lyft. Initially a prototype, it quickly garnered interest from barbers and users alike, leading to a successful launch.

Key Points:

• Funding and Growth:
  The Cut utilized equity crowdfunding, allowing barbers themselves to invest, fostering strong brand loyalty. Following participation in Techstars, the app secured its first round of venture capital in 2021 and achieved profitability in early 2025.

  Notable Quote:
  [18:47] Obi Wan: “That was like a big part of our story. And then after that, we did an accelerator. We did Techstars. And then that led to us finally raising our first bit of venture capital.”

• Business Model:
  The app operates on a subscription model for barbers ($25/month) and charges users a processing fee per booking, aiming to create a comprehensive ecosystem for barbers and clients.

  Notable Quote:
  [16:49] Obi Wan: “So it's all things like if you schedule an appointment... we're trying to complete, like, build a whole ecosystem for barbers and barbershops.”

4. Freestyle Rap Competition in Barbershops

The collaboration between the hosts and guests led to the organization of a three-city freestyle rap competition held in barbershops across New York, the DMV (DC, Maryland, Virginia), and Atlanta. This initiative not only promotes rap talent but also enhances brand awareness for The Cut.

Key Points:

• Format and Judging:
  Contestants are required to incorporate references to The Cut or the hosts in their freestyles. The judges evaluate based on creativity, preparation, and the ability to engage the audience.

  Notable Quote:
  [07:28] Sluggo: “It's another language to me. It's complicated.”

• Participation and Impact:
  Approximately 400-500 participants signed up, with notable winners emerging from each city, including female rappers, highlighting diversity and talent within the competition.

  Notable Quote:
  [08:07] Obi Wan: “Yes, sir. Currently, right now, our championship contestants are actively promoting it.”

5. Challenges in Podcasting and Content Creation

The hosts discuss various challenges faced in running a successful podcast, including co-host conflicts, monetization issues, and the complexities of navigating platforms like YouTube.

Key Points:

• Co-Host Dynamics:
  Disagreements and personality clashes among co-hosts led to departures, affecting the show's consistency and growth.

  Notable Quote:
  [23:02] Cash Flow: “I'm a man of my word, and if you give me your word, I expect that you're gonna stand on it.”

• Monetization and Platform Policies:
  Changes in YouTube's algorithm and monetization policies posed significant hurdles, leading to demonetization of popular episodes and financial instability.

  Notable Quote:
  [28:26] Cash Flow: “I didn't like that type of, like, it doesn't work.”

6. Business Lessons and Industry Insights

The conversation shifts to broader business lessons, emphasizing the importance of an abundance mindset over a scarcity mentality. The guests advocate for transparency and information sharing within the industry to empower creators and entrepreneurs.

Key Points:

• Abundance vs. Scarcity Mindset:
  Adopting an abundance mindset fosters collaboration and mutual growth, whereas a scarcity mentality leads to competition and isolation.

  Notable Quote:
  [51:17] Mav Hoffa: “Scarcity mindset looks at like when I climb up the ladder, I'm kicking the ladder down... It's a limited mindset.”

• Negotiating Deals and Transparency:
  A significant barrier in the entertainment and startup industries is the lack of transparency in deal negotiations. The guests stress the necessity for creators to educate themselves to secure fair deals.

  Notable Quote:
  [38:38] Cash Flow: “Absolutely, definitely.”

7. Hip-Hop Culture and Community

A substantial portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing hip-hop culture, the evolution of freestyle rap, and the regional dynamics between New York and Atlanta rap scenes.

Key Points:

• Freestyle vs. Prepared Rap:
  The hosts debate the authenticity of freestyles, distinguishing between true improvisational rap and rehearsed verses presented as freestyles.

  Notable Quote:
  [11:29] Obi Wan: “You could tell, were freestyling off the top, they definitely got bonus points.”

• Regional Rap Scenes:
  The dialogue highlights the distinct characteristics of New York and Atlanta rap scenes, debating influential artists and their impacts on the culture.

  Notable Quote:
  [75:17] Luong Sluggo: “That's why TI is the most important artist.”

8. Conclusion and Future Directions

The episode concludes with the hosts and guests discussing future initiatives, emphasizing the need for continued collaboration, transparent information sharing, and expanding platforms like The Cut to empower more creators and entrepreneurs.

Key Points:

• Future Projects:
  Plans to extend The Cut internationally and enhance the freestyle competition format to include more cities and diverse participants.

  Notable Quote:
  [08:34] Obi Wan: “There’s so many opportunities to really give rappers an opportunity to showcase their skill.”

• Call to Action:
  The guests encourage listeners to engage with their platforms, participate in competitions, and support black-owned businesses.

  Notable Quote:
  [80:54] Obi Wan: “You can go find all the content at The Cut app on IG TikTok all platforms.”

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Final Thoughts:
This episode of Earn Your Leisure provides an insightful exploration into the convergence of hip-hop culture, entrepreneurship, and content creation. The candid discussions offer valuable lessons on business strategy, the importance of mindset, and the cultural significance of communal spaces like barbershops in fostering creativity and community.

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Connect with the Guests:

• Obi Omile (Obi Wan): Follow on Instagram and TikTok as @Mr_Underscore ObiWan_WaN
• Ray Daniels: Available across all major social media platforms
• Math Hoffa: Follow on relevant social channels

For more content, visit The Cut app and stay tuned for upcoming freestyle competition highlights.

Transcript

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[Obi Wan]

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[Obi Wan]

Man.

[Mav Hoffa]

This is going to be a fun episode.

[Ray Daniels]

Let's see if we can get through this one.

[Mav Hoffa]

We already had an episode before the episode.

[Ray Daniels]

Check the octaves on this joint.

[Mav Hoffa]

Yeah, so we got to cast the characters here today, man.

[Ray Daniels]

Friends of the show, to say the least.

[Mav Hoffa]

To say the least. So we got Ray Daniels out of Atlanta. Let's go by way of New York. Originally he had to say it now.

[Ray Daniels]

He from New York. Ray is from New York. He is a cultural referee. But we not letting him just claim this Atlanta thing. He's going too far. He's going too far.

[Mav Hoffa]

But, but, but Ray, if you don't know his backstory, Ray was actually in the music business for a long time executive and then during the pandemic actually started to produce content. So a lot of people know you as a content producer, a content creator, but they might not know that you actually was a music executive.

[Sluggo]

But still still have the number one song in the globe right now.

[Mav Hoffa]

What song is that?

[Sluggo]

Apt The Rosie. I always tell adults and they be like, what? And then I play it for them. Like, my kids play that all day. Number one song in the globe. So still in it.

[Mav Hoffa]

But on the globe.

[Ray Daniels]

On the globe.

[Sluggo]

It's not, you know, like, it's Billboard 200 global charts. It's on that chart. Not the Billboard Hot 100. Yes.

[Ray Daniels]

In the world. So, like, in the world.

[Sluggo]

Biggest. It's the biggest K pop song of all time. Oh, wow. Damn.

[Mav Hoffa]

Seriously?

[Sluggo]

Yeah. And we got the biggest K pop song of all time. And we got the biggest male K pop song, so we got the biggest female and male.

[Ray Daniels]

So still an exact.

[Sluggo]

I get busy, but I like what you guys do. That's why I'm here.

[Ray Daniels]

Thank you for allowing me.

[Mav Hoffa]

Obo. Melee.

[Obi Wan]

What's up? What's up?

[Mav Hoffa]

By way of the dmv.

[Obi Wan]

Yeah. Also born in Atlanta, so. Grady, baby.

[Ray Daniels]

Nah, man. Come on. He said he was a. I thought it was like a whole Niger boy thing going in. Shout out to Legos.

[Sluggo]

Yeah.

[Mav Hoffa]

So co founder of the Cut.

[Obi Wan]

Co founder of the Cut. Yep.

[Mav Hoffa]

That's a barber scheduling app.

[Obi Wan]

The number one app to find a barber anywhere around the country. We have about 8 million users. If you need a barber here in DC or here, DC, Atlanta, anywhere. We got you.

[Ray Daniels]

Legendary, bro. It changed the game, honestly. Can't front it.

[Cash Flow]

Change the game.

[Obi Wan]

This summer we're gonna hit 100 million. Appointments booked, which is crazy.

[Mav Hoffa]

Congratulations.

[Cash Flow]

Oh, you gotta clap for that.

[Sluggo]

Shout out to the studio.

[Ray Daniels]

The studio audience.

[Mav Hoffa]

And then the last one needs no introduction. Mav Hoffa, a legend in the game. Why start laughing?

[Sluggo]

We already started. It's like we already started. Matt Hoffa. Shout out to Matt.

[Cash Flow]

Matt Hoffa, the best judge in off the top freestyle company.

[Mav Hoffa]

A leg. A legend in two games.

[Ray Daniels]

It's a fact.

[Mav Hoffa]

When we.

[Ray Daniels]

Very crazy.

[Mav Hoffa]

He is, though, talking about battle rap. One of the pioneers of the battle rap culture. We talk about smack and. And that whole era that was like in the 2000s that, you know, he's definitely a major figure in that. And then from the podcast space, content creation, obviously, you know, people I'm sure have seen clips and interviews and everything that he's been doing over the last couple of years with that, so. All right, gentlemen, thank you.

[Ray Daniels]

We ain't say where math from, though.

[Cash Flow]

Oh, Brooke, Brooklyn.

[Sluggo]

Hello.

[Ray Daniels]

We from. We born in the Bronx, raised in Greenberg, New York. So we watch that to come.

[Sluggo]

Y' all came from two parent household. That's all I need to know.

[Mav Hoffa]

We got a lot to talk about. So first of all how did you three come together and talk about why you came together?

[Obi Wan]

I mean, we all here because we love rap. At the Cut, we were trying to figure out we want to do something cool this year. And so my man Eddie the Mogul, he's always introduced and talked about that we should work with Ray on something, just something in the music space. And like, when you think about barbershops and music culture, I mean, they go hand in hand. Have been for decades. And so I hit Ray. We talked about putting on the competition, they hit math. We got together and we started talking about, let's put on a three city tour. We start in New York, then we'll go to the DMV, then we'll go to Atlanta, allow MCs to come and spit their most fire. Freestyles. All you gotta do is shout out one of us or the cut on, you know, in your freestyle, in your verse. And then, yeah, we gonna allow people to vote and choose. And I'll be gonna crown the champ.

[Mav Hoffa]

So it was done for promo for the Cut.

[Obi Wan]

The original idea, to build brand awareness.

[Sluggo]

I was gonna say awareness. It was the fact that, you know, and you wouldn't believe how many places we went where somebod like this app. Oh, this? You own this? It's a black owner. Like, yeah, that's me. It's like I just used it this morning. So it was more like just shining a light on what you know. Usually they say black owned company support. No, the company's already successful and it's black owned. So that's why you.

[Mav Hoffa]

And it was done in barbershops.

[Obi Wan]

Yeah, we picked a barbershop in every city.

[Sluggo]

Yep. And we set up and we let the people go at it.

[Cash Flow]

So.

[Ray Daniels]

So talk about each one of your roles. Obviously you got the infrastructure inside of a barbershop. You got the background in the music.

[Sluggo]

Industry and the math. And I knew, I knew I need. We needed an mc.

[Ray Daniels]

You got inspired talent and Matt's got an expert opinion.

[Sluggo]

Absolutely. On rap especially.

[Ray Daniels]

So talk about how this dynamic is working in terms of the show.

[Sluggo]

Well, as Rashad said, we was all. We was laughing off camera because it's just funny. It's like. Cause rap is a subjective thing. Like when we spoke about it, it's like we can objectively say who's great or who's not, but it's really about kind of like what you're looking for. So Math was like the bars mattered to him and to me the story mattered. Like, to me, I wanted to feel like I knew you I wanted to feel like. I wanted to want to give you the check. Like, damn. They was. You going through that much here and, you know, Math was looking for, like, the bars. The. The.

[Cash Flow]

Not just the bar.

[Sluggo]

No, you was. That's what you.

[Cash Flow]

Not just the bars. A couple of times I told people, like, make. Make us feel something.

[Sluggo]

Yeah.

[Cash Flow]

You know what I'm saying?

[Sluggo]

But you. But what I mean by that is, like, it's like another language. That's. That's what I mean. It's like another language to me. It's like, what. You got to sit me down and take out a board, chalkboard, write it down, every word. Because for me, it's just complicated. So I look for, like, how can I follow you? And Obi just wanted you to, you know, say something dope.

[Obi Wan]

No, I mean, that's. That is, though. Like, I just wanted creativity in my verse. Like, I wanted to hear. Because part of it was that you had to use the cut in a creative way. So I wanted to hear either creativity in that or just like, how you talked about barbershops or barber and culture in the verse. So, yeah, I think that's what. All three of us had different opinions as judges, and, I mean, I feel like we got some really good.

[Sluggo]

It was fun, man.

[Mav Hoffa]

And how much does the winner get?

[Obi Wan]

10. 10 bands.

[Mav Hoffa]

$10,000.

[Obi Wan]

Yes, sir.

[Mav Hoffa]

And they got it. They got to promote it on their social.

[Obi Wan]

Yep. Currently, right now, our championship contestants are actively promoting it. So we got our winner from D.C. we got a winner from New York and Atlanta, and, you know, been made the best.

[Sluggo]

And by the way, the best part about it is two of the three winners are women. Women came through, and this was this.

[Mav Hoffa]

You guys funded this?

[Sluggo]

Yes, sir.

[Mav Hoffa]

And is this something that you think and eventually, like, you can take and have sponsors behind?

[Obi Wan]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, we've already been talking to certain brands who want to get involved on the east coast, and I think next we can go down to Texas, to the Midwest, west coast, Cali.

[Mav Hoffa]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Obi Wan]

I mean, there's so many opportunities to, like, really give rappers an opportunity to, like, showcase their skill. And, like, for us, it's like, how do we empower this industry just like we do for barbers? Like, give them an opportunity to really, like, you know, show their stuff.

[Ray Daniels]

How many contestants applied to be a part of this or submitted their. Their freestyle.

[Sluggo]

And, you know, when you each probably.

[Obi Wan]

Like, total, like, 400, 500 people.

[Sluggo]

Yeah.

[Obi Wan]

Sign up to participate.

[Ray Daniels]

And as you're listening to it. Right. As you listening to it, you Want to be cons, and you want to be encouraging, for sure. But, you know, some people just really ain't got it for sure, you know? Like, how did y' all go about that? I want. Mav, I want to start with you, because this is your. This is your battleground right here. When you hear somebody that really ain't doing this right, how are you giving that feedback?

[Cash Flow]

I mean, there's a couple people. I. I just look at them, I'll be like, you feel like you did your thing.

[Obi Wan]

That was your part.

[Sluggo]

How'd you feel like you did?

[Cash Flow]

Like, you know, and then a lot of them was honest. They'd be like, nah, you know.

[Mav Hoffa]

He.

[Obi Wan]

Was like, yo, like, if you had to freestyle, like, if you really came with something, like, written, like, what would that sound like?

[Sluggo]

Yeah, some people were. Some people were so bad that we were like, nah, give us your. Because, you know, when you hear off the top, you naturally think freestyle. It's really just off the top of your head. They could be written or whatever, so.

[Mav Hoffa]

But nobody. Nobody freestyles, though. Let's just be honest about.

[Cash Flow]

No, no, no. There was a lot of people. A lot of people who walked in and freestyle. There were some people who did it, and they. They were excellent at it.

[Sluggo]

Yeah.

[Cash Flow]

Like Sluggo. Sluggo.

[Sluggo]

Like, Sluggo killed it.

[Cash Flow]

Crazy.

[Sluggo]

But cash flow walked in and he just. It like.

[Mav Hoffa]

So is that. Is that. Is it supposed to be designed for. Because the term freestyle. Let's. Let's have this conversation.

[Sluggo]

I love it. Let's go.

[Mav Hoffa]

When the term freestyle started in hip hop, it was freestyle, right? Of like, yo, Troy got orange jacket D. You got can't. Like, whatever I'm seeing, I'm just rapping.

[Cash Flow]

Right.

[Mav Hoffa]

That morphed into having written rhymes prepared and spitting a verse that you've already practiced several different times.

[Cash Flow]

Mixtapes change that.

[Mav Hoffa]

Okay.

[Cash Flow]

When you picked up a mixtape clue and you. Yeah, clue the locks. Freestyle, right?

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Cash Flow]

You. You know they not freestyling, right?

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Cash Flow]

They just going over somebody else's beat. So they would call it a freestyle.

[Obi Wan]

Right, Right.

[Cash Flow]

And that's when it. That. That freestyle term started to get fuzzy.

[Sluggo]

It was all like putting on a new beat, original beat.

[Mav Hoffa]

It was just rapping over, not your song. That's what else is.

[Ray Daniels]

It's, like, different. When I heard KRS freestyle. Yes, I know. Like, there's no way he wrote that. That just happened just now.

[Sluggo]

Yeah.

[Mav Hoffa]

So, okay, so for your guys, competition.

[Cash Flow]

Yep.

[Mav Hoffa]

Are you valuing the original format of freestyle over the top of your head, or is it Freestyle. It's like I got a verse and I'm just rapping.

[Obi Wan]

For me, looking at it, that's what I was looking at. Like, and to your. To Matt's point, there were some who come in there and they would just call on things that we had on in a. That we had on in the fit or things that go on in the shop. And so that was the creativity that gave me extra points. And obviously some people came in with like, fully written, but those who really, like, you could tell, were freestyling off the top, they definitely got bonus points.

[Sluggo]

Yeah, and for me, it was about preparation. Like, anybody can rap, but like, when the lights is on and it's like Cameron is go and you gotta be perfect for 90 seconds. To me, that's what I was judging off. Like, who came prepared, like, who could just do it in one, you know, like, people speak one take J, like, that's almost like a compliment. Like, man, he. He did that in one verse, one take. Yeah, do the first dunk. So for me, I was looking for preparation and just who, like I said, I want to know you. Like, when we came up with this, I was like, man, like, things at times are hard. It would be dope to just give somebody $10,000 because it's not like when, you know, it's not like we're talking to 18 year olds. Not like you gotta be 16. We have some 50 year olds come in there and kill it. Like just straight, like, straight New York dudes that you knew was nice back in the day that was looking for it. And. And you laughing because that's why you smiling. He should have went up.

[Cash Flow]

No, no, I'm laughing because, like, I was given points for, like, things I shouldn't be giving points for. Like, one of the dudes whipped out a knife and I was like, oh, got that security.

[Obi Wan]

You got a prop.

[Sluggo]

And we in a room like, yo, somebody.

[Cash Flow]

Was creative.

[Ray Daniels]

Like, who is security? Talk about the point system.

[Mav Hoffa]

So nice play.

[Ray Daniels]

You, your judges. Like, you brought up the dunk contest. I know the dunk contest is 50 is the best score. How are y' all judging? What's the score criteria?

[Sluggo]

10, 10, 10. And. And the part that I didn't like was we didn't let each other have each other's score. It wasn't like you could have your score over there and you could have your score. It was like, what's your score, bro? What you giving them? They too. It was like.

[Obi Wan]

It was.

[Sluggo]

It was involvement.

[Obi Wan]

It was like, point. I started looking.

[Cash Flow]

I was Policing it.

[Sluggo]

I mean, like, math was policing. I was like, you would have thought that he was the rap police there. Like, yo, I'm here to make sure that y' all don't mess this up. It's like, bro, we just having fun with rap. Nah, nah, it's not fun.

[Cash Flow]

It's not fun.

[Sluggo]

It's a serious thing. So.

[Cash Flow]

No, because a lot of. A lot of guys came in there and they. They put their heart on a lot.

[Sluggo]

But to me, I also just on a deeper level, I also look at, like, when people say they want to do music, I'm like, it's so easy to break into music if you don't look at it through the eyes. Making a song traditionally, like, you know, like, I always. I like to play with people. I'm like, if I say call one, call JG Whitworth. Everybody can say eight, seven, seven, Cash. Now, like, we all heard it before, but we never played it in our car. It's not like we look for it. We just. So it's like repetition. So like, sometimes it's about being repetitious, putting your music out there and creating your stuff. Cause a lot of these guys are nice, but now they're putting their music out. Like Alex, my assistant. I'm sorry. Okay, so my assistant raps, right? And he's been with us for six months. But I didn't know he. I didn't realize he rapped until he started, until he did the contest. And now every time I open my ey g, it's a new Alex freestyle. Like, it's like, that's what's up now. He's out there now now. So for me, it's like. Also, like, sometimes it's not nice, though.

[Cash Flow]

Yes.

[Sluggo]

So we gotta remember I come from a different world, so I also need to feel like I'm looking at a rapper.

[Cash Flow]

Okay.

[Ray Daniels]

And for six months, you didn't.

[Sluggo]

Was like, he looked like. He looked like he. He looked like he turned a Mac. Does he not? Like he was singing Return of the Mac.

[Cash Flow]

That's his favorite song.

[Sluggo]

A brown or a black leather jacket nowadays.

[Mav Hoffa]

I mean, he looks like Blade.

[Sluggo]

Like, he got a.

[Cash Flow]

Stop.

[Ray Daniels]

I mean, that vampire thing is in, though, right?

[Sluggo]

That's fire. Like dog. I think you taking around like Pitbull looks like Scarface. It just works, bro. You gotta. He looks like Blade. Listen, guys, I want to get invited back here by the back. I'm not gonna say nothing crazy. As soon as Matt respond, I'm just gonna be quiet because I just.

[Cash Flow]

That's messed up, bro. Let's do this.

[Mav Hoffa]

Because I. I do. I want to come back to this, but I also want to get individual conversations going, because you each have unique journeys.

[Sluggo]

Yeah.

[Mav Hoffa]

So let's start with you, because you probably the person that they might not be familiar with. Okay.

[Obi Wan]

That's a fact.

[Mav Hoffa]

Let's talk about starting this app and actually raising money for the app and then making the app profitable. Like, that's a. A journey in this journey within itself.

[Obi Wan]

Absolutely. I mean, I think so. The. I go to the beginning. The beginning was I had moved to North Carolina, start a new job down there. And I'm sure all of us know you go to a barbershop about every week or two. Every week or two. I was down in North Carolina for about two months while getting a haircut. So I'm just.

[Mav Hoffa]

Without getting a haircut?

[Obi Wan]

Without a haircut.

[Ray Daniels]

It's by choice.

[Mav Hoffa]

Yeah.

[Obi Wan]

I mean, I wasn't about. Just, like, you didn't trust me. And that was the issue with, like, that was the first time I realized, you know, there could be an opportunity here. And this is back in 2015. And so right around then is where I said, you know, you'd seen Uber, you've seen Lyft and Handy and all these different apps starting to be born. And that was when I said, okay, there might be an opportunity to do something like this in barbershops. So fast forward, like a year later, ended up moving back home to D.C. area. And I'm talking to one. I'm talking to one of my friends, and we're trying to figure out what we want to do next. I build this app, like, the little prototype. I show some friends, they get excited. We show our barber, they get really excited. And, you know, we've been off to the races ever since.

[Mav Hoffa]

And you got a. It's a subscription.

[Obi Wan]

Yes, sir. For the barbers. They pay a monthly fee.

[Mav Hoffa]

How much do the barbers say?

[Obi Wan]

25Amonth.

[Ray Daniels]

25Amonth.

[Obi Wan]

The users have to pay money whenever you're booking your haircut. That's when you pay, like, a. Like, processing fee on transactions.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mav Hoffa]

And. And it's to locate barbers.

[Obi Wan]

So it's all things like if you schedule an appointment. Also, like, if you're traveling for work, you can find a barber. If you have a barber, you can use it just to book them so you don't have to walk the shop and spend four hours waiting. Right. You can use your card so you don't got to, like, run to the atm, get cash. Like, we're trying to complete, like, build a whole ecosystem for barbers and barbershops.

[Ray Daniels]

I have the app, bro. It's crazy. I've been using it for. For probably about five years. When you walked in, I was like, oh, I have it. Yeah, you got 200,000 barbers.

[Obi Wan]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

That's a lot, especially for subscription model. Not that we counting, but it says.

[Obi Wan]

On your le we got different tiers.

[Ray Daniels]

Different. Different tiers, different tier. I mean, even the barber shops, right, they have barbers inside of. So it's interesting. Is this just domestic? Is this something that's regional, or are we going global with this then?

[Obi Wan]

I mean, the plan is to go global, man.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Obi Wan]

I mean, right now we are the focus domestically and we have barbers in, like, Canada. I mean, we do have barbers on like different military bases abroad too, so. But the plan is to go global.

[Mav Hoffa]

You had to raise money.

[Obi Wan]

We have raised money up.

[Mav Hoffa]

How'd that process go?

[Obi Wan]

It was definitely a process, but I think, right. It's multi stages. Right when we first got out the game, me and my boy had money saved up that got us to like the first year. And then after that we went to our colleges. So I'm a modders. They have like, if you went to like, most universities will have like an angel group. So like you go to pitch to the angel group with a nail invest. So we did that.

[Mav Hoffa]

What school did you go to?

[Obi Wan]

I went to James Madison in Virginia. Shout out to the Dukes. And so after that, we. One of the things that we did that was really dope was an equity crowdfunding. I'm sure you guys are feeling like, you know, and so the thing that was dope about that is it allowed barbers to invest in the company. And so out the gate we had like four or five hundred barbers who invested. And like, they were so bought in in the brand they galvanized on our behalf. Like they're tell. Telling everybody to know because not only are they using an app.

[Cash Flow]

Exactly.

[Obi Wan]

So like, that was like a big part of our story. And then after that, we did like a accelerator. We did tech stars. And then that led to us finally raising our first bit of venture capital. And that was what in 2021.

[Sluggo]

And the company's in the black now.

[Obi Wan]

We just hit profitability like earlier this year. So that was exciting.

[Sluggo]

I just got to give them that.

[Ray Daniels]

Congrats.

[Cash Flow]

Congrats.

[Obi Wan]

Appreciate it.

[Ray Daniels]

What makes it dope is that and everybody the barbershop. It doesn't matter what you do in life, right? Whether you're accountant Whether you're a teacher or you freestyle, you go and go to the barbershop at some point. Which is why I think it's dope that y' all brought all this together. Obviously his music, Math, I mean, your show was in a barbershop. In the barbershop, man. Talk about the importance of the barbershop in the community and why this all makes sense.

[Cash Flow]

Well, I think it, you know, as far as hip hop goes, you know, a lot of. A lot of the buzz for an artist probably starts in the barbershop. I would go into a barbershop, somebody be playing a mixtape. You know what I mean? Yo, who's that? O Such and such New Clue tape.

[Obi Wan]

Oh, wow.

[Cash Flow]

You think you better than. So a lot of these hip hop conversations would happen in the barbershop. So it only made sense that we would have this competition in the barbershop bars.

[Sluggo]

Barbershops.

[Mav Hoffa]

So, Math, let's ask the question.

[Cash Flow]

Yeah, what.

[Mav Hoffa]

What happened? So.

[Cash Flow]

The intro is crazy.

[Ray Daniels]

What are you referring to?

[Mav Hoffa]

All right, so for people are not familiar. Math, you know, and you. It was something that just took off like wildfire, at least to me. I'm not sure how long it was going on, but my expert opinion, that show started and then before I know it, it's like everywhere. Viral, like 21, savage. I'm not sure what exact moment it was.

[Sluggo]

Method man of Fat Joe. For me, that's when it was like, it was everywhere.

[Cash Flow]

Which time meth came on three times.

[Sluggo]

Well, the first time.

[Ray Daniels]

Nah, it was great. We had a conversation the first time.

[Cash Flow]

I don't think you saw it. That was the tenth episode.

[Sluggo]

Oh, hell no.

[Ray Daniels]

We couldn't figure. We was sitting there like, yo, how's he doing this? And it was because he was showing clips, but the episode didn't drop. And I'm like, yo, is he just mass recording? Just putting out Pete. Like we were studying it. Like, yo, this is. This is.

[Mav Hoffa]

It was like two episodes per week. Like.

[Cash Flow]

Right. Switched up clips.

[Mav Hoffa]

Yeah, five minute, ten minute clips. So. But then there's a lot of things that started to happen. A lot of co host started to change, and then abruptly the show transformed and you're. It's kind of like changed formats. Right, Right. You're not. You're no longer in the barbershop.

[Cash Flow]

Well, the last episode I shot was not in the Barbershop.

[Mav Hoffa]

Okay.

[Cash Flow]

Do I want to give up the barbershop? No, I'm still in the process of trying to sort it out with the landlord and the sub Lisa and all that.

[Sluggo]

Stuff.

[Cash Flow]

So what happened?

[Sluggo]

I never talked. I never, like, I want to know. We never had this conversation on the right.

[Ray Daniels]

Turn his head. Like. Let me start by saying I thought he crossed his leg.

[Cash Flow]

Let me start by saying life comes at facts.

[Sluggo]

True.

[Cash Flow]

You know what I'm saying? The. The success of the show, I wouldn't say it was overnight because I started a little bit before 2020. Covid kind of shut it down. So I was going live every single night, 10 o' clock, read between the lines, just building up that fan base. So when I restarted, it was like that fan base carried over and the shop was going again. And, you know, everybody was hyped to be outside. So I had a million people pulling up. Like, everybody I knew from, from Brooklyn, Queens, wherever, all the old school heads. I was connected, connecting the dots to certain stories. And I was like, okay, we're gonna do Nas and Tupac, so I need G Wiz over here. Tragedy, Gaddafi. I need all the queen sticks to pull up. Tell us what happened. Okay, now I'm gonna do all the Jay Z stories. So I'm gonna get this person to come over. I'm get this person. And I would just start putting it together like that. And. And it worked and it took off. And after a while, I started bringing on more co hosts.

[Sluggo]

And what happened with that? We were the one another. I'm curious, what happened with that, with.

[Cash Flow]

The co host situation?

[Ray Daniels]

That was Ray as my voice.

[Sluggo]

I want to know for real.

[Obi Wan]

Intrusive thought thoughts.

[Cash Flow]

I'm a man of my word, and if you give me your word, I expect that you're gonna stand on it. And there were a couple situations with the co host where they didn't want to stand on their word. And it. And it bothered me because it's like, yo, we got all this success. Why are you guys doing things now? Like, why are you messing up the. The whole blueprint of the situation? Like, one of the things that I don't even want to.

[Sluggo]

Now we waiting.

[Cash Flow]

Okay, all right. So I had a deal with SO1 Heineken. They signed contracts and the show started to take off pocket watching people like, okay, we signed these contracts to get paid this, but now the show is doing this. So I'm like, just hold on. Talking with the big guy, the guy that's in court right now, okay? And I'm trying to make the situation work.

[Mav Hoffa]

The guy that's in court right now.

[Cash Flow]

You know what I mean? Shout out to him. And you know, you know, I. I hope everybody involved in that situation, like, you know, they find their way through it. You know what I'm saying?

[Sluggo]

Yeah.

[Cash Flow]

But while that's going on, one of the things that I asked him not to do, they went back and they did. It was there, and it was a lot of friction in between that. It was a whole bunch of stuff. A lot of personalities and egos clashing. And for me, I just. I just try to keep the drama away because I know in the shop, we're selling friendship. That's really what's being sold, friendship. And if there's turmoil, if there's fakeness, whatever, look, it's not going to work. It's going to pick up on camera. And, you know, I let a couple people go, and then they turned into my biggest haters. And, you know, it is what it is. And the cycle just continued. Every time there was a fallout. I didn't have the. The. The. The contract that says, yo, you can't say nothing after you leave here. So, you know, waiver in retrospect, because.

[Mav Hoffa]

Being that it happened a few times, do you think it was you picking the wrong people? Or maybe you were a little bit too hard as a leader? Like, just retrospectively looking back on the.

[Cash Flow]

Situation, I think a little bit of both, because it's hard to tell. It's hard to tell somebody who's done so much on their own. Like, even as a kid, like, I was the type of person that if nobody had my back, I'm still gonna walk down that block and say, yo, you forget your friends, we fighting. I've done so many things in my life where no one. No one had my back, that it's like, it's hard for me to say, you know what? I'm gonna try to keep this together. I'm always gonna think, no, I'm gonna just keep moving. So maybe it was me being tough as a leader, partially, and expecting things out of people where I. I could have forgiven certain things.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah. So I. I'm thinking about it in. In retrospect, but looking forward, right, Number one, where does this, the show, stand going forward? And knowing what you know now, what's the biggest lesson that you've learned going forward? To say, all right, I know we made. Made a mistake there. There's some accountability going forward. This is what I'm doing.

[Cash Flow]

No compete. Cause not complete.

[Ray Daniels]

Not compete.

[Sluggo]

Not compete.

[Cash Flow]

You know, you know what I'm saying, And.

[Ray Daniels]

Support it.

[Cash Flow]

It's very important.

[Obi Wan]

Is important.

[Mav Hoffa]

But then also, what's something they. People need to know this, too, because this is important for content Creators to understand there's a thing when the YouTube algorithm starts to change. And everybody felt that from a monetary standpoint, view standpoint, all of that. So it's like, it's difficult to run a business when you're pretty much, okay, banking. I'm hitting this number every single month. And then things change. It's out of your control. You don't really necessarily know how to go about that. Right. That's something that is not talked about enough. But that happened. That affected everybody across the board.

[Obi Wan]

But that's privy to that then.

[Cash Flow]

But if you're the person that's running everything, you're the person that's like, okay, I'm putting the guests together. You're controlling the flow of the conversation. Kind of send people like, we want to go here, we want to go here, we want to go here. All right. Then you're handling the uploads, you know, everything. Like, no one in that shop could tell me about the business of it, because I knew every aspect of it and I controlled every aspect of. So the things that I know are like, I know we did good this month, but come January, bad rate is going to drop and it's going to be dead until maybe. So let's hold off on whatever we got to do at this time. Oh, though. And people didn't. They didn't understand that.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Cash Flow]

They just felt like, oh, well, he got it.

[Mav Hoffa]

He hold it.

[Ray Daniels]

I hate when people say, we did a million views.

[Mav Hoffa]

That comes to education. If you're not educated, then you think, oh, no, well, now he's stealing money. Or he's like, nah, I'm trying to.

[Cash Flow]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

We had this great month in November. When this episode dropped, was that an issue for the show? Like, in terms of getting AdSense, if you're on YouTube because of the content, maybe because of profanity.

[Sluggo]

Was.

[Ray Daniels]

Did you have issues?

[Cash Flow]

Yeah, I mean, of course, course. You know, with YouTube, their policies change. Like, exactly. Right. Weeks, bro. Right. And it's like episodes that was hot and it was still moving. All of a sudden it's demonetized because there's a new policy and it's a. It's a lot of going back and checking and, you know, requesting a review and trying to read, trying to take things out of the footage. It's a lot. It's a lot. And like I said, nobody else understood that but me.

[Mav Hoffa]

Me.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Cash Flow]

So when it came to, like, you know, people just seeing, like, oh, yeah, I think the show is doing this. I think they're doing that a lot of guesstimations, a lot of. And I. I just don't like that type of. You know, I mean, like, it. It doesn't work.

[Sluggo]

But they also don't talk about how hard it is when you're dealing with how many. How many people was on it? It was like seven of y' all.

[Cash Flow]

Yeah, five.

[Sluggo]

Okay, so five, including you personalities. So.

[Cash Flow]

Including me.

[Sluggo]

So if you smart, five people, all with different personalities, you know, all we as black men have been raised to want to be the man. You know, it's like, we don't. They don't teach us to be a part of it. So it be doing it, or it's his or. And nobody understands, like, it's hard for you guys to be here and still be rocking. Y' all deserve credit for that. Because it is almost impossible to build with most people because of their expectations. Of what? Like, just because you outside and people celebrating, y' all don't mean we winning. I mean, that might be God sending us a sign saying we on the right path, but winning is when we reach a certain goal. And that's probably, you know, that's. That's something to be spoken about because these. It's. I'm tired of it happening. Everybody breaking up.

[Cash Flow]

It. It takes discipline, man. Man, it takes discipline, and you gotta respect and trust each other. But if you come from a cutthroat business where you expect people to be cutthroat, it's like those shadows are gonna follow you.

[Sluggo]

Yep. You're looking for what I mean.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah. Are you seeing those similarities? Right? I'm gonna come to you because you come from the music industry, obviously, in the content creation space now. It is a filthy game, man.

[Sluggo]

It's about the content creation.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Sluggo]

Oh, I lost. Everybody talk about it. I'm actually feeling bad for him because I'm like, at least you got to a million. Like, I would lost everybody when I. I even wasn't monetized yet. My people was leaving because, like, they thought people don't understand. I'm a successful music exec, so I make seven figures for music. I'm investing that. So because I want to do a podcast, I paid everybody in the room, including my co host. And then so it's like, before you.

[Mav Hoffa]

Started making money, what I paid day.

[Sluggo]

One, because I already know that they're gonna come in my office. They see how my office is. They like, oh, he got it. So, you know what? How much you want? I'm gonna pay you for the money. And I paid everybody. And then we start and then it started becoming their dream. Now, now. So now they're like, I got stuff to do. I gotta go shoot another person podcast. Hold on. You weren't even shooting. I was like put. I created this left in the middle of an interview.

[Ray Daniels]

Look right there. Non compete cloth.

[Sluggo]

Listen, the crazy part is that. But this is how it works, though. We don't think about that in podcast.

[Mav Hoffa]

That's how it always.

[Sluggo]

And as soon as you said it, I'm like, like, if I had my phone, I would have text chassis and Mike, like at non compete club. Because it's something to think about. Because what people don't understand is I'm putting you. We just said it's like I'm putting you on my album. I can't take that album out of stores no more. It's like it's evergreen once I upload it. And if it got millions of views, I don't want to take it down because I don't mess with you no more. So it's hard to build in any space. Y' all want to be honest. You know what's hard? It's hard to build with broke people. And it's hard to build with broke minded people. Broke minded, broke minded people? No. Cause even if you broke, if you got the right mentality, you won't get to the money. Broke minded people is hard to build with because they don't understand. It's like when people say them Jordans cost $20 to make, why would you pay 150? Nobody factors in that. Somebody has to fly it, they have to ship it to the store. Somebody has to work at foot. Like all these people get paid to get the shoe to us. Unless you want to go to the factory yourself and buy all the pants for $20.

[Mav Hoffa]

Like, the thing about it too is that very few people want to be an underboss.

[Sluggo]

Tell her, tell her. Nobody does.

[Mav Hoffa]

Very few people want to be underbossed. Like when they get the underboss position, they want to become the boss.

[Sluggo]

Yes.

[Mav Hoffa]

Right. Because they see the line.

[Obi Wan]

They.

[Mav Hoffa]

Even if it's not what they. Even if it's. That's not the reality, it's what they think is reality.

[Obi Wan]

So they're like, see one part of it.

[Mav Hoffa]

I want to do this for myself. I want to experience this. I want to go to this party and get treated like this myself.

[Cash Flow]

But they, they don't realize, like, you're undercutting what we're all working towards.

[Mav Hoffa]

Right.

[Cash Flow]

You know what I mean?

[Mav Hoffa]

It's a selfish mindset.

[Cash Flow]

Right. If we have an interview show show, and you go create an interview show. What's happening here? You know what I mean? Like. Like, I used to sell drugs. You know what I'm saying? Okay. So I'm looking at it like my block now. What's happening here? You taking the work where?

[Sluggo]

Yeah.

[Cash Flow]

Nah, bro, I ain't getting pieces.

[Obi Wan]

What you doing?

[Cash Flow]

You cut me? Nah. You cut my legs.

[Sluggo]

Yeah, it happens every time.

[Ray Daniels]

It's ego, it's discipline. My man Derek Falcon said something important. He's like, sometimes being number two is being number one.

[Sluggo]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

Because you put your ego aside to let somebody else go and shine and be the face of things. Right. The name got the show got your name on it. That don't mean I'm not important to the show. I'm part of it. Right? But sometimes we get blinded by the success of it, and it's like, nah, I should have my own shit.

[Sluggo]

My co host quit to go work for free. Nuts and ain't even on camera no more. She's literally behind the scenes. Like, it's like, if you have magic, L. A. Reid would teach me that. He said, everybody is just looking for their magic combination. Once you find the magic, once you find it, keep the world out. Don't let nobody touch it, because once they touch it, it's over.

[Mav Hoffa]

Well, let me ask you guys, all three of you, because you'll have different perspective. You from a music standpoint, you from a startup standpoint, you from coming in the game on the podcast and content creation standpoint. But I had a conversation with Charlemagne, and he said he felt that people were not fully educated on podcast industry, which was leading them to have unrealistic expect and was leading them to turn down good deals in hindsight. But they was looking at it from a standpoint of it wasn't a good deal.

[Cash Flow]

You know what? There's a. There's an element that you got to add to that you got to add to the. You have to add the other deals that you hear floating around.

[Mav Hoffa]

Oh, you're right.

[Cash Flow]

Yeah. You know what I mean? I really got 20, but I'm going.

[Ray Daniels]

Tell you, I got 170 headlines like Podcasting business expected to generate $8 billion.

[Mav Hoffa]

But then you start comparing yourself to things that we never really got the full details of. Cam and Mace's situation.

[Obi Wan]

Yes.

[Mav Hoffa]

We never really got the full. No disrespect. I'm just saying we never got the full details of million dollars worth of game. We never got the full details of Joe. We even Joe's Yeah, nobody. Like in the NBA, it's transparent. We know how much Steph Curry signed for. So now it creates comps, right? So now if you're a similar player with a similar. A market value, you could say, okay, now I. This is what I'm worth. Because X, Y, and Z player got that in this industry, it's all. And nobody's, you know, saying so.

[Cash Flow]

It's like, nobody's really. I'm gonna say this. Nobody's really sharing the information. I'm not gonna say no names.

[Mav Hoffa]

That's a problem.

[Cash Flow]

But there's a couple people I called with questions. When I got off the phone, I had more questions than I started.

[Mav Hoffa]

That's a. Yeah.

[Cash Flow]

And it was like, damn.

[Ray Daniels]

Because they didn't know.

[Mav Hoffa]

They didn't want to tell. They knew.

[Cash Flow]

Either they didn't know or they didn't want to tell, or someone else is really running their business.

[Ray Daniels]

That's what I'm going.

[Sluggo]

That's really what it is. They want to tell you, but they ain't stopped to learn it.

[Mav Hoffa]

I think it's two things they don't know, because some people are just not fully educated and they don't know, or they may. They may know and they don't want to tell, period.

[Sluggo]

And to me, the weird part is, to me, we should all be sharing info about podcasting. And to me, if you're coming into podcasting, worrying about. About the. The cameras and the views, you don't understand the concept. In my mind, like, I swear I've said this on everywhere I go, I'm like, I look at you two guys. You two guys, like, you guys have the biggest invest festival in the world. 20, 000 black people. Like those. Those are people that probably watched a few shows, but they know who y' all are. It's like, it's like, to me, that's the problem I have with podcasting. It's like, this is an opportunity to create a brand, to build something on.

[Mav Hoffa]

Right?

[Sluggo]

You're so worried about, man, how many views we got? Well, if you ask how many views we got, please ask how much all these wires and cameras and people cost.

[Mav Hoffa]

Exactly. Well, that's the. So, all right, you bring up a good point. Because that's the thing that a lot of people are not taking advantage of, and that causes problems when you only relying on views to get money, then that's. That's problematic.

[Obi Wan]

Limit your perspective, right?

[Mav Hoffa]

You got to have products to sell. You got to have different ancillary things where this should just be a commercial yeah.

[Sluggo]

24. 7.

[Mav Hoffa]

Anything that. If you can get money from YouTube, that's a blessing.

[Obi Wan]

Yeah, but this shouldn't be your only stream.

[Sluggo]

But that's. That's what we learned from hip hop. Like these dog. I'm in the music business. I promise you, these guys do not get royalties. They don't get royalties. They just get advances. And once you go, you. You get your money. How you get it? The people that was here ain't here no more.

[Mav Hoffa]

Like, you get show money, and that's.

[Sluggo]

How they get it. So. So what I'm saying is that most artists don't make money from recorded music, right? Like, they make money from appearances. Show money. Show money.

[Mav Hoffa]

More billionaires in our culture got rich off of Anselm.

[Sluggo]

Like, Jay is like liquor.

[Mav Hoffa]

Diddy became a billionaire because of liquor. Kanye became a billionaire for merchandise.

[Obi Wan]

The main thing is you want to use something to build your brand. And as long as you build your brand and you build trust, like through content or through like rap or whatever, that gives you that, like, that, like credibility, then you can go and sell anything.

[Cash Flow]

Right?

[Obi Wan]

That's how Jay Z. That's how managing some cord. That's how Kevin Hart. That's how everybody's building their brand today.

[Sluggo]

But look at, look at academics. Academics is huge. But he started with. Well, he was his own man. But complex really put him on a map. Joe, even Joe hat got the complex, like.

[Mav Hoffa]

Well, and that's why turning. So sometimes the deal is more than just money. It helps elevate your brand.

[Sluggo]

Yeah.

[Mav Hoffa]

So now you. But you still keep your platform even when you're not with that said company, period. So. All right, so for all of you three, do you think that not having the right information is hurting us when we're negotiating deals?

[Cash Flow]

Absolutely, definitely. Definitely.

[Obi Wan]

That's by design, though.

[Cash Flow]

But I gotta say, okay, all right. In the form, in as far as the entertainment field, a lot of people that succeed in it didn't come from business school.

[Sluggo]

That's true.

[Cash Flow]

You know what I'm saying? Like, me personally, aside from from hustling, I might have had a couple jobs here and there. Battle rap. That was like hustling. That's not money. I had to report to the government. I was getting cash. You know what I'm saying? It is what it is. So once I got to this level with the podcast where it was hundreds of thousands, like, coming through was like, I didn't. I didn't know what to do. You know what I mean? And it's. Some of us come from a Family where there is nobody else you can.

[Sluggo]

Ask most of us.

[Obi Wan]

I mean, I'm thinking even to startups, like when it comes to fundraising and trying to raise money like to grow your business, like there's so much information. You don't know when it comes to like the, like other companies and how they did their deals, like what were the metrics that they got valued on? What were the different, like how did this VC like analyze their business? And like if you have a lot of friends who are other founders, they can give you the inside scoop on like how this investor works or like the metrics and kind of, you know, basically like how to run your deal process. Right. But if you don't know that you're going in there blind and then the VC has all the.

[Mav Hoffa]

You got to be educated to ask a question.

[Obi Wan]

Exactly.

[Mav Hoffa]

I actually had GBT a question for something similar because I'm like, I wanted to just confirm and they gave me a detailed answer. But like you said, if you don't, if you don't even have enough education to ask questions, what are you gonna ask?

[Obi Wan]

There's so many things right now that I'm so thankful that I have friends who like are further along than I do. Because when, like when we go and run our process now to your shout out to chat lawyer gbt, like there's so many, there's so much information I've been able to like ascertain to go out and like hit them with questions on. Because you know, you gotta get the best deal for everyone to vote.

[Sluggo]

But I can tell you what it is. I'm gonna be honest, I just think it's us they don't want us to know. Like, let me tell you why I say that. Ryan Coogler. Ryan Coogler. It's the biggest. How many directors have deals that we don't know their deals and everybody's like, here's Ryan Coogler deal.

[Obi Wan]

Immediately the world, immediately the world knew.

[Sluggo]

But then he goes and says, says, I'm not the first person to get this deal. I'm the first black person to get this deal. And what happens when we see one get. All of us feel like we're gonna ask for it. And that's what the scary part is. So it's like. So like for example, I, I contributed to when I was in music and I was worked at my last job. It was like the gold rush. I mean I can't even get to know you to know if I wanna work with you because you so hot that everybody chasing you that I'm just. I'm just trying to figure out how.

[Obi Wan]

Much money you want that happens to start.

[Sluggo]

So it's like. So it's like, you gotta look at it. We gave Enderley Chopper eight more million, right? It's like, how the hell I'm gonna tell him what to do now, you know, like, everything he did got him the biggest deal in history. How do I go tell him now what to do, right? So to me, I think it's how they treat us. And what I would say is, is that we all should be picking up the phone saying, here's what's in my deal. And we just don't trust each other. But that's what we should be doing quietly. Yo, here's my deal. I did an interview where I told people you should get a buy sale. I didn't know what that was, but Polo, my boy Polo Da Don, didn't deal with that. I did at Sony, and he renegotiated and they gave him a buy sell. And the only reason he knew that, because his lawyer was Peter Paterno, who represented some of you two, all these other big people that was like, here's what you need in your deal. So now we know to ask for it. One last thing. I remember when I was doing Chopper Deal, and I'mma said, nobody knows it was me. We was doing his deal, and Choppa's lawyer is a black guy. So when he's sending the deal, he's like, he wants 8 million. And then he had his legal fees in there. And lawyers get paid 5% of the deal. So he was owed, owe 400,000. So when he puts in his deal, he puts in a number way less than 400. So think about it. I could have just been like, I'm saving the company money. Nah, Yo, I called a lawyer. Why did you ask for two for the number you asked for? He said, oh, man, you think they'll give me 5%? I said, they give it to Joel Katz Recipes Joe Katz. I'm like, they give it to Joel Katz, put it in the deal. So he puts it in the back in the deal, sends the deal over, and then head of legal at the company is like, man, somebody might have hipped him to. Because now the only thing different is the lawyer want his full fee. He's like, by the way, that lawyer is black. He's like, only somebody must have hit them. Why didn't you hip him?

[Ray Daniels]

Right, right, right, right.

[Sluggo]

By the way, that's the only reason why we got the deal. Because now the lawyer is like, wow, Ray, thank you for looking out for me. So let me tell you what's going on. He wants this. If you give this, this and this, I think we can get it done. And that's how we got the deal. So it's like. But if I didn't be transparent with my brother, we don't get there and we need more of that.

[Ray Daniels]

I wanted to go there. Like you said you were able to call Polo, right?

[Obi Wan]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

Y building that circular trust is tough, right?

[Sluggo]

I did the deal. I wasn't able to. I actually did the deal and then I was leaving to go to Interscope and I was trying to take. Polo had an artist named Kane Brown who was like one of the biggest country artists in the world and he was going crazy. So I'm trying to bring him to Interscope. So Sony is like, no, you over here with us. So Polo was like, no, I can go cuz I have proof that I sent them. I submitted it when I was working there. So Polo's like, here go my proof. Ray submitted it. Y' all didn't pass. So they go, well, let's change the deal terms so you to stay here. So I couldn't get mad at that. He gets a buy sell now if you want to now. So Cash Money has a buy sell. Todd Mosque has a buy sell. These are things that if the artists are really yours, like when they send Jermaine to pre called me, he got mad at me. When they send you home as a CEO, most like when they send Puff home, they keep his artists. When they. If you get rid of Cash Money, Wayne Drake, everything with them goes with them. That's why you have a buy selling deal. I remember after I put that, just that little clip like 30 seconds, everywhere I went for like a month, every black executive, bro, why you doing that, man? Everybody has to buy sales. Now I'm like, why don't we want us to know, right? What is the problem? It's almost like. It's almost like it's not for us yet. Let's let them get the most out of it and then we'll give it to you by selling. Okay, so here's a buy sell. So a buy sell means that at some point in time we, when a deal expires or we get to a certain point, we're going to value or bring an outside company to give us a valuation of what the company is worth. And at that moment, so say if the company's worth 180 million at that moment, you can go cut Universal Check for 180 million and now you could take it to Sony like Todd Mosquitz did when he took Lil Durk, Rod Wave, he took, he took them all to Sony. So Sony probably gave him 3,400 million. He gave Interscope, Universal or whatever he owed them and he got a whole new deal. So it just means you own it. Like most of us don't own nothing in the music business. But if you have a buy sell, it's yours. They cannot get rid of you. And if they do, they got to pay you. The biggest cash out in history was a guy named, was a guy named Clive Cough Balder who had a deal with BMG and he did a buy sell. He had to buy sellers deal and basically they had to give him 2.7 billion. This is the year that NSync, yeah, this year that NSync, Britney Spears and, and what's the other group? The other group? Backstreet Boys were all the biggest groups in the world. And he went to BMG and was like, nope. And he cashed out. That's what brought BMG down, by the way. Just a fun fact by sale. So that's why I didn't like giving it to you because once you apply it it you got to cut me a check or I got to cut you a check. Yeah, yeah, but the game forever. But white white boys have been doing it forever. It's just we don't know about it. So what like that deal Ryan Cougar got, they all got it. We just don't know about it. Yeah, he does.

[Ray Daniels]

There's plenty of directors who own affiliate. Even Spike to a certain sense owns his content. But like the fact that you're giving game and not kicking down a ladder is like you become a guy that people can now call. In the VC world, like when you were doing it, who's the person that you're calling? Even math, it's like, yo, we making six figures in the space. Are you calling other content creators? Are you calling dudes that came up because they like who, who, who are you getting the infam? Who's the circle of trust as you're doing it?

[Obi Wan]

I mean for me it's definitely founders I've met along the way. Like founders of companies where we either have like the same investor. So like we're like we're portfolio companies. So like we share an investor and then other founders I've met just networking like at different events and like that circle of trust because like we all trust, trust each other. We're going through the same shit. Like, that's how we've built this rapport and do that is how we feel comfortable enough sharing, like, some of these deal terms. And then, like, you know, we, like, we've been talking because, like, we want to start making a lot more transparency out there. And I even see people on TikTok or, like, other platforms today, like, where they are given, like, real inside game from inside of a vc. So they're letting you know, as a vc, how we look at the business, too. So, like, I think just the. The Internet, cell phones has given a lot more people the ability to share information. And so, like, if you find the right people to follow, like, yeah, there's. Yeah, you can. You can get what you need to know.

[Sluggo]

For me, it was Wallow. Wallow showed us my studio, like, three or four months into my pod and was like, you gonna blow up. I'm like, how do I make money? He was like, this, this. He showed me his deals. He showed me the Amazon offers, the barstool office. He was the first person I just met him, by the way. Like, literally. What's up, man? Nice to meet you. Let me show you. What's my deals. This you need to look for. We need more of that with each other because they're going to keep. As long if we're not together, they're going to keep being able to X us out and let who they want in and give them the info as long as they don't tell anybody.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Sluggo]

And then they go after you.

[Ray Daniels]

That's crazy. Yeah. I actually ran into Wallow in Vegas. The same thing.

[Sluggo]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

And he was like, yo, I love what y' all doing. Keep killing. Keep killing it. And then he looked at. He's like, yo, this is the deal Amazon's offering?

[Sluggo]

Yep.

[Ray Daniels]

We're not taking it.

[Sluggo]

Yeah. He said, okay.

[Cash Flow]

Bet.

[Ray Daniels]

He's like, nah, we worth more. I'm like, go get it.

[Sluggo]

And literally, I call him. Like, when I call Wally, he's like, ray, just keep doing this. You got to keep doing it. So it's like you have those people, but we. But I think in this space, we. We understand it more now that it's matured and you kind of know who the Giants are. Eyl, you know, like half a million. Like, I'm trying to get to 100 subs. You got a million already. So you know who the Giants are. But even me, it's like, I love it because it's like, he's still gonna mess with me. I'm still gonna mess with y' all. We still. Cause we understand what it is. It's like, we need more of that. More fellowship, more talking to each other more. Hey, yo, this should be in your deal. Don't let them do that. I've done that my whole career. Cause I've always gotten lucky in my deals. Like, I never. Like, I always went to my deals like, man, I just want a hundred thousand, man. And then we get a million. Like, how do we get that? And it's like. Because it was luck. It was like God. And God is like, hey, don't hoard. Don't hoard the information I give you. Because I could have gave it to somebody else. So that's why I'm big on, like, just sharing as many. If you wanted this out there, who's in your circle?

[Cash Flow]

Math.

[Mav Hoffa]

Well, I was gonna. Math might be a little different, though, because. Yeah, it's a he. All right.

[Sluggo]

We picking on that.

[Cash Flow]

Like I said, I put out a lot of those phone calls.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Cash Flow]

And it wasn't the same reception.

[Mav Hoffa]

But do you think for you. Okay, you might. You're a different Persona than Ray. Right? You're a nice guy. You're a good guy. But I'm just saying, you might be a little bit more threatening. No, I'm not. I'm being honest.

[Ray Daniels]

What gives you that?

[Sluggo]

He just said he wants to see what.

[Mav Hoffa]

Going to projects and fight people.

[Sluggo]

Like, what are you doing?

[Cash Flow]

But not in that way. Yeah, in a. In a way that a lot of the other. The. Who would. Whoever you would call. My competitors. They took deals early.

[Ray Daniels]

Contemporaries, Right?

[Cash Flow]

Contemporaries. They took deals early. This thing was and. And still is independent. Got. Got to a million subscribers without a network, without. You know what I'm saying?

[Mav Hoffa]

Corporation. Organic. Organic.

[Cash Flow]

So, like. Yeah, a lot of times I felt lonely. Like, bro, how do you do? Oh, you. Oh, I don't know. You gotta figure it out. One person literally told me, I don't know. You gotta figure it out.

[Mav Hoffa]

That's crazy.

[Ray Daniels]

Wow.

[Sluggo]

That's hating. That's hate.

[Mav Hoffa]

That's crazy. That's crazy.

[Cash Flow]

Say hi to him on Friday.

[Ray Daniels]

That.

[Cash Flow]

That's the question.

[Sluggo]

So where you going now after you said that? That makes sense. Y' all the same folk, cover the same world. It's like. It's a little different.

[Mav Hoffa]

We would have been happy to share information. Some people are more. A little open door and all this.

[Obi Wan]

Yeah.

[Sluggo]

It's value in opening the doors. It's value in being the first person. It's value in leading. It's valuing And I think our people are just learning that because it hasn't been like we've seen our killers get killed before they get a dollar in their pocket. And it's like, nah, it's value in that. People like Jay, you know, these guys are leading, making all this money. It's value in this. It's just if you're gonna look at them like you supposed to be my brother, give me the information, you're never gonna get it.

[Mav Hoffa]

Well, the thing about it, I think it's two types of mindsets. It's an abundant mindset and a scarcity mindset. Talk that scarcity mindset looks at like when I climb up the ladder, I'm kicking the ladder down to make sure that nobody else gets up because now I'm in the penthouse by myself and I could just run around. But that's a limited mindset because how much can you really do by yourself?

[Obi Wan]

Exactly.

[Mav Hoffa]

Now the abundance mindset is I'm gonna get as many people in the penthouse as possible so we can take over the building.

[Obi Wan]

Exactly.

[Mav Hoffa]

That's what people don't understand. It's like you're looking at it from a limited mindset and you might have been hurt before, you might have tried to help somebody and they, and they screwed you over. I get that part of it. But that's never going to be long term success. You're actually hurting yourself by not having more. Like if there's 37 people that have 100 million dollar contract, that's only better for the industry as opposed to one person.

[Cash Flow]

Right, right. Keeps that industry alive. It actually grows that industry.

[Obi Wan]

We were talking about it even just with our barbers, that same type of abundance versus scarcity because like there are some barbers out there who don't want to be on a platform like the Cut because they don't want their clients to be seen by other barbers. So they're more afraid of losing business versus realizing being on a platform like the Cut opens you up to the million plus people who are not platform searching for barbers every day. And so just like the difference between like the abundance versus scarcity is huge.

[Sluggo]

It's, it's probably the biggest problem in our community, abundance versus scarcity mentality. Like why we don't help each other. Like, but I'll say this, most of us that have gotten to a certain table, usually we've been made to think once we got to that table, you're only here because you're not like them.

[Mav Hoffa]

But a lot of people, this, this.

[Obi Wan]

Another part that's what they tell you.

[Mav Hoffa]

A lot of people, like, especially from the 90s, early 2000s, they've reached a level of success differently than how we've reached success. We've reached success independently through cell phones, directly to consumer. So our mindset is completely different. They've reached success by a corporate executive putting them in position. Their level of success is. All they know is a white person picked me up and put me in this position.

[Sluggo]

And as long as I serve that person right.

[Mav Hoffa]

And the same things that how they taught them, how they treat them now, they passing that down. And that's. That's their gatekeeper mentality.

[Sluggo]

That's what's happening in the music industry right now. That's why I quit it, because that's exactly what's happened. It's just you're not getting picked because you're great. You're getting picked because you're friends with this person and he doesn't. He wants you in position because he feels like you're gonna protect him from them.

[Ray Daniels]

But hasn't it always been like that?

[Sluggo]

I mean, well, it was, but I think once it got bigger and bigger and bigger, it started. The game got bigger, money got bigger. It started becoming like playing keep away to the point where it's like when they put Elliot Grange in Craig Kalman's seat. You gotta understand, Craig Kalman has been at Atlantic longer than Elliot has been alive in the CEO position, not like Junior. And he got the CEO in the last. He's been a CEO for the last 20, 30 years. And you put somebody younger than him who doesn't know any people. So what you just did anybody that has those relationships cut.

[Ray Daniels]

Lucy and Son you talking about?

[Sluggo]

Yeah, but. Yeah, but. But by the way, Elliot is good at his job, but he's just young and he doesn't care. He's from that unk, you know, that generation. Like, y' all oldies don't know nothing. And that we know how that winds up playing out, right? So it's just that mentality. So now he basically brings in his guys who are all younger than him. And what happens to all those guys who's been there 20, 30 years? They going home to figure it out. So when you start seeing they sending people home and it's for. It's like, I'm cool on that, man. I go home myself, bro. That's how I've lived my life. Just for that reason. Like, I don't play that.

[Ray Daniels]

Are there any more stars in music? Right?

[Cash Flow]

We have.

[Ray Daniels]

We have a core and we keep seeing them win awards and go on tour. But are there new stars?

[Obi Wan]

Right?

[Ray Daniels]

I went to a stadium. We went to the Kendrick joint. It was a stadium tour. And I started thinking to myself, I'm like, how many artists can do that?

[Sluggo]

And the reason why they can do that is because they. It's like having a big brother in the big building. Like, oh, we gonna make this. So, you know, the business is, bro, it's dirty, but it's only dirty because behind closed doors, we're treating you like a product, but you a person, right? So it's like, if this mic don't work, we like, man, throw it. Give me another mic. But if this mic is human and we throw it away, it's like, how could you do that to that mic? He's been there with you 20 years, and it's like, you know what I mean? So I think that's the problem. So we do have stars. We don't have any superstars. And the reason I don't have any superstars because we don't have people. The game.

[Mav Hoffa]

Superstars. Like. Like what?

[Sluggo]

Like scissor.

[Mav Hoffa]

Travis Scott. Travis.

[Sluggo]

Travis Scott. Superstar. A superstar to me is when you hit that space where you. You can't go under where you are. Like, Jay Z called it the white hot space where it's like you trying to be hot. I'm trying to hit that white space where I can be.

[Mav Hoffa]

Drake's a superstar.

[Sluggo]

Drake's a superstar.

[Mav Hoffa]

Travis Scott, superstar.

[Sluggo]

Future's a superstar.

[Mav Hoffa]

Future. Is he a superstar?

[Sluggo]

Future's a superstar.

[Mav Hoffa]

Future's a superstar.

[Sluggo]

He might. He don't have the. He doesn't have the presence, but his music making superstar.

[Ray Daniels]

No, I think he met Gala. Kenny.

[Sluggo]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

Met Gala. We see.

[Sluggo]

He's a creative director for Lanvin. Like, he's a superstar. When you got big European brands that. When they lose. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

I'm just saying I'm thinking in terms of can he do a stadium?

[Mav Hoffa]

No, he can't do a stadium.

[Sluggo]

No.

[Mav Hoffa]

But neither could Kendrick.

[Sluggo]

Yeah, but he did.

[Mav Hoffa]

Without scissors.

[Sluggo]

Without scissors.

[Mav Hoffa]

But he did without scissors.

[Sluggo]

Without scissors. Very important.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, but that's like on the run.

[Sluggo]

Jay Z, Beyonce, Same concept.

[Ray Daniels]

Stadium.

[Sluggo]

Same concept.

[Mav Hoffa]

Jay Z's always done that, though. He partnered with.

[Cash Flow]

He partnered with 50 Justin Timberl, Mary J. Blige.

[Mav Hoffa]

Mary J. Bl.

[Ray Daniels]

He smart was arenas. The.

[Cash Flow]

The.

[Ray Daniels]

The Justin Timberlake one was baseball fields.

[Sluggo]

That's still stadium.

[Mav Hoffa]

Baseball.

[Sluggo]

Baseball stadium. Baseball. Football stadiums. Basketball is arena.

[Cash Flow]

True.

[Sluggo]

Okay. And hockey.

[Ray Daniels]

Yes.

[Mav Hoffa]

Let's have this conversation, shall we? Because Barbershop you guys have a freestyle battle competition, right? So it's about rap. People that rap. So let's have a few rap conversations. So are you up for that?

[Obi Wan]

Trying to ease into it.

[Sluggo]

I love this.

[Cash Flow]

All right, I'm watching our scores.

[Mav Hoffa]

The first one, you know, shout out to punch my guy.

[Ray Daniels]

Punch.

[Mav Hoffa]

So you Punch. You guys had an interesting take as far as New York rappers. And it was interesting. I actually called both of you gentlemen.

[Sluggo]

You did.

[Mav Hoffa]

And. Oh, you have Jay at number one. Okay. But then you have. You had Fabulous and Jadakiss.

[Sluggo]

No, he had. He had. Jadakiss is number two and Fabulous is number three. And I agree.

[Mav Hoffa]

And then you had.

[Ray Daniels]

You agreed.

[Mav Hoffa]

And then. And then the four. And then four was a debate. I think it might have been Nicki Minaj.

[Sluggo]

Nicki Minaj.

[Mav Hoffa]

50 Cent, like, yeah, Nicki Minaj. And then you had Nas at the tail end of the situation.

[Sluggo]

No, he did.

[Mav Hoffa]

You didn't even have Nas at all. So my.

[Cash Flow]

Oh, yeah, this is Nas thing going on over here.

[Sluggo]

By the way, Kabir, you did the.

[Cash Flow]

Same thing when I went on the show.

[Sluggo]

Perfect place to address. Address it, because I know how you feel about. So it's like, let's go.

[Obi Wan]

This is.

[Sluggo]

This is it.

[Cash Flow]

This is the guy that. That picks Nelly overnight.

[Sluggo]

No.

[Ray Daniels]

He did that on the record.

[Sluggo]

No, I said, yeah. I said Nelly is the better songwriter.

[Obi Wan]

That's crazy.

[Mav Hoffa]

The dude made a song a hit maker. Okay, so.

[Obi Wan]

Okay.

[Ray Daniels]

Because he has number one single.

[Sluggo]

He sold 10 million albums first time out. So.

[Mav Hoffa]

So, all right, so I had to call. I personally called both of these gentlemen because was.

[Sluggo]

By the way, it was like 12 o' clock in the morning. He's not playing.

[Mav Hoffa]

And I. I and Jadakiss actually know Jadakiss personally.

[Sluggo]

Yep.

[Mav Hoffa]

And JD Kiss, he's from the same area. Hometown hero. He's a legend. And Fabulous is one of the dopest rappers of all time. Like bar for bar punch lines. Like, he's super dope. But we gotta stop this disrespect of Nas, Please.

[Cash Flow]

Yeah, please.

[Mav Hoffa]

Like, we have to stop and disrespect.

[Sluggo]

The n. I want to say this. I told. This is Rashad. I'm gonna say this on record. Okay? So this is how I look at. So here's why I do this, first of all. So I. I was born in the Bronx. I left New York right when I turned 12. So you gotta understand, I left New York and it's like Eric B. Rakim, like, I'm at the Apollo. Toughen leather, everything. I go to the South. And it's just like a whole new scene. And they got they people, and they think they people are just as good as New Yorkers. But y' all never heard of them. But they heard of y' all people, right? So it was always like that. So my best friend, he really. And if he was here, he would swear to God that Kilo Ali is better than Jay Z. Like, you can't tell him that. You can't tell him the Wu Tang Clan is better than Yin Yang Twin. You can't. He, like, nigga, they got the girl twerking and popping. It's like, that's what matters to him. So that's what really made me. So when I. When I'm so I told Rashad, Nas, to me, is top five greatest MCs alive. God. MC. Like, I have to give him that, right? The same way you would give Avatar one of the greatest movies of all time. But I'd rather watch Juice. So what I was basically saying is I'd rather listen to Fab than Listen. I personally rather listen to Fab than Nas. And that's what I meant. But, like, I listen to Nas, but I also. I'll be honest with you, y' all. You know this. Y' all both know y' all, too. That side of room. Y' all know 100 guys arguing with me about Nas, Y' all know. Only about 10 of them really know Nas music. The other ones are just the 90 that don't want to disappoint y' all.

[Obi Wan]

Period.

[Sluggo]

Because what I'm saying is that you. You don't understand. Like, you don't understand. Like Jay Z said, just because a wear a koofy don't mean that. He nice.

[Ray Daniels]

Though.

[Sluggo]

You gotta understand something. I got cousins in the Bronx right now and Harlem right now. That I swear to God, y' all, I'll sit on the corner with them and three minutes, I'm talking. I'm like, what the are you talking about? They just like, yo, B, you know. Cause the mathematics and this, this, and, you know, the, like, what are you talking about, bro?

[Ray Daniels]

I don't like where this is going. Right?

[Sluggo]

No, just.

[Ray Daniels]

I don't like where this is going.

[Sluggo]

You know the political prisoners in the Mathematic.

[Ray Daniels]

How is this equ to N. Jones, though?

[Sluggo]

So you say. My point is that, personally, my point.

[Ray Daniels]

He'S saying stars and quasars.

[Sluggo]

Listen, I am playlist. Listen, I am illmatic in this album. I know him. But word for word, I am an illmatic. Like, with all those Albums. But I'm saying after a while it got to the point where it was like, you still going deeper into that. Like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's. You got to be ready to listen. So let me tell you something.

[Cash Flow]

Definitely.

[Sluggo]

You don't want to watch. Listen, I want to, okay? At night, every night, I go to sleep. I got to go sleep to a movie. I have to. But like, I can't go to sleep to Malcolm X. Go to sleep. Nerve I. My subconscious when I'm sleeping. Guys, hold on.

[Cash Flow]

Wait a minute.

[Ray Daniels]

You know what the problem is?

[Sluggo]

But I don't want to go to sleep.

[Cash Flow]

So what do you think about 3000 Andre? Yeah, exactly. You talk about 3000, he's incredible, right?

[Ray Daniels]

You go, you're not going to sleep to. To love Below.

[Mav Hoffa]

He had a.

[Sluggo]

No, he played the music.

[Mav Hoffa]

He got a whole album playing the foot.

[Sluggo]

Let me tell you something. If you, if you are from Atlanta, if you are from Atlanta, right? You know, Andre 3000, we all went to high school with them. Those are real Atlanta. This new Atlanta is not. Andre is real Atlanta. He from the south Southwest. Like, it's just different. But your point is. Andre is ill. But I understand if he's in my top. But I understand if he's not in yours. Like, if you say Andre, if y' all told me out wuang is bigger, that better than outkast, as. As craz sounds to me, I could respect it. Cuz I'm like, y' all was on the block when Wu Tang was out. Like, I got cousin that was on the block.

[Mav Hoffa]

That sounds crazy to you.

[Sluggo]

To me that what Wu Tang is better than Outcast. To me, Outcast is the only group in history that every album went bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger to the last one. They want 10 million and then they win album of the year.

[Cash Flow]

So it's numbers.

[Sluggo]

No, it's judging off numbers. You can't buy a Grammy, baby. You can't buy that. You. That's your peers.

[Ray Daniels]

What was the. What was the last album? It was the movie.

[Sluggo]

No.

[Mav Hoffa]

Well, love Below.

[Ray Daniels]

The movie joint.

[Obi Wan]

Elimnesia.

[Ray Daniels]

What was the name of the movie?

[Sluggo]

I forgot. Idawa, Ottawa.

[Ray Daniels]

Stop it.

[Obi Wan]

Bigger, bigger.

[Ray Daniels]

Stop.

[Sluggo]

Wu Tang has never had a movie.

[Ray Daniels]

I'm not saying that. I'm not saying they did.

[Sluggo]

I gotta do this because I love Method Man. I love. I respect and love. Woo. I just was in the south, so you gotta understand, I'm coming to New York when I'm 14 and my cousin's playing me Biggie and tell me this new kid named Biggie and I'm going to the south and they playing around here. It's like. It was just different. The south, they. They had the girls.

[Ray Daniels]

I'm not mad at the outcast. They got classic albums like nobody.

[Sluggo]

Nobody going to block I don't want my girl wearing Tim on the block.

[Mav Hoffa]

No woman in New York I don't.

[Sluggo]

Want my girl on the block wearing Timberlands somebody. Yo, did you hear her? Did you hear what that said last night in that verse? So why did you hear it, Baby girl?

[Mav Hoffa]

When. When did Atlanta. When did Atlanta take over?

[Sluggo]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Cash Flow]

Wait.

[Ray Daniels]

The note. Can we. The Nas thing. Can we just stop the slander?

[Sluggo]

First of all, I wanna say something.

[Ray Daniels]

Can we repeat to that?

[Sluggo]

I wanna say this. I don't. Let me tell you where the slander. Nas started as a guy on my show named Jack Danz, who's from Queens. He calls himself the Queensiest nigga in history. Am I right or wrong? Does he not do to everybody in the room? So Jack is arguing with me about Nas. Like, man, I'm like, you crazy? Nas versus Andre 3000. What are you talking about? So I can spin any Andre verse. Look at the Nas verse. And you like, ha, ha.

[Ray Daniels]

You asked the wrong person.

[Sluggo]

But now Shot Money comes to Shot Money. So then I would be on there, and I'll tell everybody, like, I know you name your son after Nas, but I'm not mistaken. So I know you know a Nas verse, but, like, I'll challenge somebody like OB like, give me a Nas verse.

[Obi Wan]

I'm not the one. See, it's not anybody's verses. That's.

[Mav Hoffa]

I'm just seeing how you feel growing up in New York City, you know, in the 90s.

[Cash Flow]

God, man.

[Ray Daniels]

Okay.

[Mav Hoffa]

It was written illmatic, stillmatic.

[Ray Daniels]

One of the greatest.

[Cash Flow]

First of all, I'm one of the few people that believe it was written was his best album.

[Mav Hoffa]

That's me.

[Sluggo]

Really?

[Mav Hoffa]

That's me. I agree with that.

[Sluggo]

It was written, too. I am. And it was written.

[Ray Daniels]

Oh, no. I'm gonna tell you something real quick.

[Cash Flow]

I am is someplace.

[Ray Daniels]

So this is. We had this conversation. One of the best hip hop nights of my life.

[Sluggo]

Let's hear it.

[Ray Daniels]

Me and Sha are having dinner with Nas.

[Sluggo]

Ooh.

[Ray Daniels]

And I'm telling him, yo, it was written as a great album.

[Sluggo]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

Bill Matic is the greatest hip hop album of all time. And I was like, what you think? I'm asking. We asking him. He's like, you know, Know, it's like. I mean, it's like kids subjective.

[Mav Hoffa]

So we.

[Ray Daniels]

We went on it for about three hours. We having red wine. We go in. I'm telling him how that. That album changed my life.

[Sluggo]

I love it.

[Ray Daniels]

Like I want. He was the first person I wanted to be. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's different. It wasn't like I want to be Jordan. I wanted to be Nas. Right? And then about two months later, we see him again at dinner the same day we see him. I think Rolling Stone puts out the best hip hop albums of all time. What's number one?

[Sluggo]

Illmatic, Illmatic, Ilmatic.

[Ray Daniels]

You know what I said? He was like, yo, you got it, Troy.

[Mav Hoffa]

Illmatic is a state fed. That's 90% I seen fat. Illmatic is a safe bet. But it was written is a cultural favorite.

[Sluggo]

It this I am having. I want to talk to the mayor. I am okay. Yeah. I'm just making sure I confuse the albums. Like I ain't going. I'm being honest.

[Ray Daniels]

Street dreams, power. I follow the world.

[Cash Flow]

It was like a. It was like a brand new martial arts style. It was written was like the mastery of it, right?

[Sluggo]

Yeah, yeah. But you got to understand that's when.

[Mav Hoffa]

Big was like took home, ready to die. Study. Now you got some credit.

[Ray Daniels]

Now you want some money, right?

[Mav Hoffa]

Cuz it was written. I was flying suits the all of that.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, it was elevation.

[Mav Hoffa]

Illmatic was grimy in the lobby with the army jacket.

[Sluggo]

Clear though. Ill Illmatic was for men on the block and Queens in the New York.

[Ray Daniels]

New York, New York.

[Sluggo]

I'm saying like I'm kind of. I don't want to say, you know what I'm saying? But I'm on a black D. I'm trying to be. I'm trying to be NW but men didn't sound right. So I got to say. But it was for. That was on a block that was trying to get educated. You know, I know them dudes. Illmatic was in Illmatic. Nobody in N words.

[Ray Daniels]

Here's the best way to describe Illmatic. Illmatic is a portrait of New York City in the early 90s. The 90s, exactly.

[Cash Flow]

Yeah.

[Sluggo]

And I wasn't there. I left in 90, I left in 91.

[Ray Daniels]

So it's like it was travel quest when you left.

[Mav Hoffa]

So let's.

[Sluggo]

All right, let's.

[Mav Hoffa]

Let's do this before.

[Sluggo]

AG is from my neighborhood, they from my bills, right? So I remember show business, AG drop, right? So you know, you got Dosso fan, all this stuff. But I'm Saying it was. I was still young in it. I didn't get into hip hop till I was like. Like, really into it, till I was like, 14. And when Outkast dropped, that shit changed my life.

[Ray Daniels]

Okay.

[Sluggo]

It was like. I told. I told. I pissed him off. I told him I think soul food Goody mop out problem. It. It made a more bigger impact on my life than Illmatic. Me personally.

[Cash Flow]

You was wearing service.

[Mav Hoffa]

Talking about FBI surveillance and all of that, but it was slow.

[Ray Daniels]

They was like the original Illuminati dudes.

[Sluggo]

Yes, they was the original Illuminati. Peeking in my window. See, I can see. All right, let's hook. I might. I might have been a follower. I might be. It's just wordy. By the way, I'm in the music business. I made my money from words.

[Ray Daniels]

Let's do this.

[Mav Hoffa]

Let's do. Balance the skills. We talked about New York. Let's talk about Atlanta, please. What's your. Who's your. On your. Mount Rushmore of Atlanta Outcast. That's two out as a group.

[Ray Daniels]

That's two people. That's two.

[Sluggo]

That's one spot or two cast as a group.

[Mav Hoffa]

No, no, one person. They got be one person.

[Sluggo]

Oh, well, Andre and Big Boy deserve to be half of it. That's. And then I'm going give it to. I'm going give it to TI I think TI Is the most important rapper in Atlanta history.

[Ray Daniels]

I agree.

[Sluggo]

Tip is the most important rapper in Atlanta history. And then I'mma give the fourth one to Future.

[Mav Hoffa]

So why are we disrespecting Jeezy and we. Not we. Have we forgotten that he had the biggest.

[Sluggo]

If I could have. If I didn't have Outcast as two, it would have been between Jeezy and Chris.

[Mav Hoffa]

Because I see a lot of people. I see a lot of people forget Jeezy. Like, they talking about Gucci. Gucci. Look, I like Gucci. Gucci didn't have no relevance in up here or when I was in school in Baltimore when trap 101 came out.

[Cash Flow]

Yes.

[Sluggo]

Does not have an album better than thumb. Motivation 101.

[Cash Flow]

Look, this is a real story.

[Sluggo]

Yeah. Does not have an album better.

[Cash Flow]

When trap. When the Motivation 101 came out that night, I listened to it with my man in his car, and by the end of the night, I was in a crack spot.

[Ray Daniels]

Fucking did.

[Sluggo]

Okay, okay.

[Cash Flow]

That's serious. Coincidentally.

[Sluggo]

Okay, that's serious. Okay. So let me tell you. Okay, Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. Like, you know, like, you know, how New York, like, you know how New York. Like, certain guys here, like, matter to y' all. Like, you know, in New York, like, certain guys matter here. Like, it's like math has a reputation where it's like. Like, he just said, I'll walk in the middle of your projects and call you outside and fight you in front of like, nigga, what are you talking about? Like, you're gonna get killed. That's how he moves, right? So New York has different ways of moving, and Atlanta is different. Most people. Jeezy is Atlanta, but he. You gotta understand, like, I was just at a. Me and Shaka Zulu shout out to Shaka. He calls me like, yo, Ray, come. Come roll me to this little thing I'm doing. I go in there, I see Tip. Tip is the city. He cares about the city. Jeezy moved away for a little while, and then he came back. But Jeezy.

[Mav Hoffa]

Jeezy is more, like, entrenched in Atlanta.

[Sluggo]

Jeezy is more like. He is, but from like a. I'mma boy outside smoke a cigar on me Tip. It's like somebody trying to kill himself in Bankhead. Tip is like, how long away?

[Mav Hoffa]

You know what they told us? Cause I'm like, yo, all these. Like, even 21 Savage, when he was talking after that versus battle 21 Savage was on Clubhouse. Like, yo, I never. Like, we ain't listen to Jeezy. We listen to Gucci. Gucci is the dude. And. But they was like, you got to understand, when Jeezy was at his peak, he ain't do songs with.

[Sluggo]

He didn't come to the bottom.

[Mav Hoffa]

Gucci did the exact opposite. Gucci did song with Migos. They did song with the Young Thug 21. So they have a reverence for him. Yeah, because he extended himself where Jeezy was more close. He did songs with his crew, but that crew didn't really go anywhere. Yeah. So it's like the reverence for him in Atlanta is going to be different because he didn't put his arms around the whole entire.

[Ray Daniels]

I think he's on the Rushmore.

[Cash Flow]

Yeah.

[Sluggo]

Who? Jeezy. Well, if. If Outcast could be one, I. I think about him, but you got to look at. I think outkast ran the 90s. Tip ran the 2000s up until. And then Future took over around 2012 and has been running. So to me, it's like those three.

[Obi Wan]

They both was running it.

[Mav Hoffa]

GC was G's in that.

[Ray Daniels]

In that 2000.

[Sluggo]

No, no, no, listen. I understand what y' all saying, but y. Y' all looking at. I'm talking about in the city. You got to understand something. Okay, dog? Y' all got understand some Tips. Question. Crew Doug O. Clay, who passed away, like, his crew. That's our city. Like, you ain't gonna go nowhere and see somebody from Tip's crew. You not gonna see nobody with Jeezy nowhere. It's almost like how they. How they. How they talk about how Master P and Birdman was in New Orleans. Like, Master P was like the outside guy that was putting New Orleans on the map, but he was messing with west coast people. And baby was the homegrown. Tip is the homegrown Atlanta. And Jeezy was from Macon. He came to Atlanta. We embraced him. Cause Atlanta's like that. And then. But he. He left when he got started popping. He moved him. I don't even know if he live in Atlanta now.

[Mav Hoffa]

It's like. It's like, if you would say dipset versus French Montana. Yeah, like French Montana. So Larkets and all, but way bigger. He's. He's in la. He's not like. And you're gonna see Jim Jones at one point in time, like, chilling. Yeah. Like.

[Sluggo]

And that's what make you love him more. So that's why I would say TI Cause TI Is the most important artist. But I think the best musical artist from Atlanta outside of outkast is Future. Now, I think he passed Tip.

[Mav Hoffa]

What about Lil Baby?

[Cash Flow]

It's too.

[Sluggo]

It's too early. And. And. And I would say. So this is how I look at it. As big as Thug is, as fire as Thug is, I still will put Thug 1B under Futures 1A for their generation. Because, remember, I was Futures A R at a point where he was trying to sign Thug. So I remember we was. I got hit with a cease and desist from Warner. Like, y' all can't. So Future was on before Thug. That's why I got to give him that, because he paved the way. Yeah, he paved the way. But Thug influence is crazy. But Future to me, musically, passed them past him to me. I think it's because his catalog is just. It's just. It hasn't stopped like most artists is. This. Most artists is really this. His has been kind of this. So he ain't. He's gotten bigger every year compared to, like, you know, Tip, and he puts.

[Mav Hoffa]

Out music all the time.

[Sluggo]

And that's another thing is, like. That's why I had to give him to him musically. Because, Tip, to me, his music didn't age as gracefully as Jeezy's did to me. But, like. Like, I'm a music guy. Like, I loved, and I'm always, like, in the studio. Like, what you want to make? Like, who would you remake? Who's singing sound. Jeezy Sound is more today. But Tip is just the guy, like, too important. The Crips, the Bloods. If you a Street, if you anything in Atlanta, if you a governor, if you anything. You probably know Tip. I got his number. He's that much to the city, and that's why we love him so.

[Ray Daniels]

Solid. Solid, both of them.

[Sluggo]

Solid, both of them. But he just. He can't. Like, it's a kid. Like the mayor. I remember when. When. When the. When the pandemic happened and they was doing the riots when a little girl got killed at that Wendy's. The mayor went on TV and said, tip, Killer Mike get down here. Like, it's like, those are our guys. So Tip is that. And he's Killer Mike's size. So that's why I gotta give it to him. And Killer Mike don't get enough credit. I'm gonna say that every chance I get. He's one of the greatest to ever do it. But we don't give him credit. Cause it came later in life.

[Ray Daniels]

He was on the Idlewild soundtrack.

[Sluggo]

But it came later in life, though. It did come later in life. That's how he started, by the way. We can argue all day. I told y' all I wouldn't. That's debatable with y' all. Me and Punch want to argue with y' all, man.

[Mav Hoffa]

We gotta do that.

[Sluggo]

We gotta, like, Punch is like. Cause I understand what y' all saying, but I think that' thing about hip hop, we don't allow hip hop to be. It's almost like it's New York's house. No, hit me out real quick. Let me tell you what I mean. What I mean by that is like. Like, y' all remember I'm doing a podcast in the south every time I speak on east coast hip hop. Shut your country. Go to read the comments. Country ass up. You know, like, damn, I don't have an opinion. Or I say PE. He's white.

[Mav Hoffa]

But Atlanta's been in driver SEY for 20 years of culture.

[Sluggo]

But y' all own the conversation. Atlant the culture. New York holds the conversation. Whatever New York say is what's going is. It matters. If we say something in Atlanta, it don't matter.

[Cash Flow]

Like, all right, so would you allow, like, somebody that runs like a. A. A dojo? In Atlanta to tell, like, what's a dojo?

[Sluggo]

Karate.

[Cash Flow]

Okay.

[Obi Wan]

Yeah.

[Cash Flow]

Would you allow like somebody has a dojo in Atlanta to tell a Shaolin monk like, you ain't kicking, right?

[Sluggo]

So he just called Atlanta Shaolin monks.

[Ray Daniels]

That's a cr.

[Sluggo]

Just called us shouting monks. That's what I'm saying. I get it, I get it. I'm not mad at it. But you can't get mad. When Atlanta starts talking, get feeling like.

[Ray Daniels]

They that shout out to Atlanta, thank you, brother. It's 2025. Atlanta.

[Obi Wan]

Like a Japanese was a Chinese. Like samurai ninja. That would be.

[Cash Flow]

What do you think about the winners? Competition? Right, Right.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Sluggo]

Cash flow.

[Cash Flow]

That's crazy.

[Mav Hoffa]

I want, I want the favorite.

[Sluggo]

Yo, he, he shut it. He shut it down with one rhyme.

[Ray Daniels]

He from New York.

[Cash Flow]

List flowing, Sho. I'm asking, I'm asking.

[Sluggo]

Listen, I ain't expect nobody from Atlanta coming in with no bars. I ain't gonna lie to you. I didn't expect nobody from Atlanta to come with no bars.

[Obi Wan]

That's crazy.

[Sluggo]

I expect them to come with some flow.

[Ray Daniels]

Here's the beauty of what you guys are doing, right?

[Sluggo]

Okay.

[Ray Daniels]

Cuz, yes, there is one winner, but technically everybody that's on is a winner, right? Because they're getting the platform to showcase their talent.

[Sluggo]

Yeah, it's about the platform. It's about. It's about showcasing yourself. Like, that's what I want artists to understand. It's not always about being the full package. Sometimes it's about just saying, here's a little bit of what I do. What you think the world. Like, that's how I started. My first six months of putting up content was on a cell phone. And everywhere I went, people was like, yo, I love your podcast. I'm like, I don't even have a pod. I'm just putting content out. I wouldn't even put it on YouTube. It was just on Instagram. So, you know, you just gotta start where you are. That's why I was doing it. Like, just go in there and just rap. If you could rap, you don't need no beat. Just rap. Give the audience a chance and I'll hope somebody from this gets signed. I'm gonna make that happen.

[Mav Hoffa]

When is it, when is the visuals of what you're doing? How are you gonna put this together for one?

[Obi Wan]

Absolutely. Full length situation on IG right now at the Cut app. You can go on find like the competitors for every city and then we have another IG off the top freestyle specifically for this competition. And that's we're about to flood all the competition. All the competition's content so you can see it. And honestly, like I said, like there's some incredible artists here. Somebody's got to get signed. Like one kid.

[Sluggo]

Slugo. I swear, bro, if I was in it, I sign him right now. If I was in it, like I I right now. That kid is incredible. It ain't hungry.

[Ray Daniels]

New York, that one surprised us.

[Sluggo]

New York is. I want y' all to understand but guess what? I'm make the music. That's what I do.

[Ray Daniels]

No, we'll call Nelly and see if he can write it for us.

[Sluggo]

I hope can. I hope he can. Nelly is fire. He sold ten man records shout out to Nelly from.

[Ray Daniels]

From St. Louis Country GR at Nellyville. And he got a bunch of number one diamond albums.

[Cash Flow]

Yeah, that's fact.

[Sluggo]

That's Nas type level. If. Hold on.

[Cash Flow]

If.

[Sluggo]

Say something. I gotta stop. If Nelly was from Westchester, if Nelly was from Yonkers, if he was anything in New York, Nelly would be considered one of the greats of all time.

[Ray Daniels]

And he deserves units and pimp juice and us.

[Sluggo]

That's the best he got. Jake, by the way, shout out to ho for giving.

[Mav Hoffa]

He's one. He's a. He's a legend. As far as his stat, selling a bunch of jacket doesn't always equate to being respected as the best rapper.

[Sluggo]

Can you. I want you expound on that a little bit. Can you?

[Obi Wan]

I mean, does it suck?

[Sluggo]

He's. I want him to expound on it. You're right. But I would love for to hear your. Your reasoning.

[Cash Flow]

Can I, can I, can I take.

[Sluggo]

Oh, where you at, Punch? I need you here.

[Ray Daniels]

Not this time.

[Cash Flow]

How many, how many records did Ice Ice Baby sell?

[Sluggo]

Ice Ice Baby sold to White White Babies.

[Cash Flow]

Right?

[Sluggo]

You can't win.

[Ray Daniels]

The same.

[Sluggo]

Sold to White White Baby. Got that he wasn't like third base.

[Ray Daniels]

Too legit to quit.

[Sluggo]

Sold a lot of records. And then guess what? As soon as he start that he was off to the races. Go over there. You watch the movie. When you see the movie, you see when he's performing too legit. The artist, you know he was performing white people too, right? So sometimes it's not that.

[Cash Flow]

And Nelly wasn't.

[Sluggo]

That's a great. See, I'm g. Give you props. I like a. That can argue. That was good. That was good. But you know, Nelly had to. Nelly. Nelly still came from St. Louis when nobody cared about him. So he had to do a lot more than just make a good song. He had to prove he deserved to be here. And he's one of the best songwriter artists in the world.

[Cash Flow]

He had to live in Harlem for a couple of years.

[Sluggo]

Yeah, he did.

[Cash Flow]

Yeah, he did.

[Sluggo]

By the way, I lived in the Bronx for a couple years. Listen, if anybody watching this, everybody should live in New York. Everybody should live in New York for one or two years because it's going to make your ass harder than you ever been. They ain't going to say hello to you. They don't care if you getting robbed on the street train is not my business.

[Mav Hoffa]

Not my.

[Sluggo]

It's not my business. Yo, watch that over there. Your business lady get domestic college. You won't be next. It's going toughen you. So New York is good for that.

[Mav Hoffa]

But you know, gentlemen, this has been a very fun conversation.

[Obi Wan]

Absolutely.

[Mav Hoffa]

Let them know where they can find the information in regards to watching the content. And then each individual, all of y' all socials, what y' all got going on so they can like I said.

[Obi Wan]

Like you can go find all the content at. At the Cut app on IG Tick Tock all platforms. The freestyle competition itself is off the top dot freestyles. And yeah, we're gonna post all that stuff like this Friday. So yeah, please come watch it. Like I said, Slugo Deja Queen. I mean we got some really fire content in there.

[Sluggo]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Mav Hoffa]

And then the individual info for everything.

[Obi Wan]

Oh yeah, follow me at Mr. Underscore. Obi Wan. Obiwan W a n. Yeah. All platforms.

[Sluggo]

You can tell he's smart. I'm just Ray Daniels everywhere.

[Mav Hoffa]

Just.

[Sluggo]

I'm listening to talking. I'm like, I know your. I'm still like, what? Just Obi Wan.

[Mav Hoffa]

That's Obi Wan.

[Sluggo]

That's hard.

[Ray Daniels]

That's what it's felt.

[Sluggo]

I know what it meant. I'm like. I thought it was like a. Your whole name.

[Obi Wan]

Kenobi. I mean, oh, got Star Wars. You have to take it hard.

[Mav Hoffa]

Fire and mav. Where can we watch. We can watch episodes now, right? Even though you're not in the shop currently, we still can watch.

[Cash Flow]

You can still watch episodes. Episodes.

[Mav Hoffa]

You interviewed bg?

[Cash Flow]

Yes. And that. That did pretty good. That did pretty good. But I'm. I'm eager to get back in the shop. I love the shop.

[Sluggo]

We need meo back.

[Obi Wan]

Yes, definitely. I get you back.

[Sluggo]

I need the other opinions in the room.

[Cash Flow]

Bring me old back. Get it.

[Mav Hoffa]

All right, guys, thank you for rocking. See you next week.

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