← Earn Your Leisure
Earn Your Leisure
Vlad Tenev on Robinhood’s Next Move: $1,000 for Every Baby, Future of Money, AI Prediction & Crypto
01:04:02
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- [00:00]
iHeart Podcast Announcer
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
- [00:06]
Vlad Tenev
So let me get this straight. Your company has data here, there and everywhere but your AI can't use the data because it's here, there and everywhere? Seems like something's missing. Every business has unique data. IBM helps your AI access your data wherever it lives to change how you do business.
- [00:28]
Podcast Host 1
Lets create smile to business.
- [00:30]
Vlad Tenev
IBM.
- [00:35]
iHeart Podcast Announcer
Coca Cola for the big for the small, the short and the tall. Peacemakers risk takers for the optimists, pessimists for long distance love for introverts and extroverts, the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new Coca Cola for everyone. Pick up some Coca Cola at a store near you.
- [01:05]
Pharmaceutical Advertiser
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- [02:21]
iHeart Podcast Announcer
And not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads, supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. Learn how podcasting can help your business. Call 844-844, iHeart.
- [02:36]
Indeed Advertiser
I know he has a reputation, but.
- [02:38]
Vlad Tenev
It'S gonna catch up to him.
- [02:39]
Rip Current Narrator
Gabe Ortiz is a cop, his brother Larry a mystery.
- [02:43]
Vlad Tenev
Gabe didn't want to solve until it was too late.
- [02:45]
Rip Current Interviewee
He was the head of this gang.
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Podcast Host 1
You gonna push that line for the cause.
- [02:50]
Vlad Tenev
Took us under his wing and showed.
- [02:52]
Rip Current Interviewee
Us the game, as they call it.
- [02:54]
Vlad Tenev
When Larry's kill, Gabe must untangle a dangerous past. One that could destroy everything he thought he knew. Listen to the brothers ortiz on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [03:07]
Klarna/Square Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. A lot of people think podcasts about work are boring. And sure, they definitely can be. But understanding a professional's routine shows us how they achieve their success little by little and day after day. It's like banking with PNC Bank. It might seem boring to save, plan, and make calculated decisions with your bank, but keeping your money boring is what helps you live a more happily fulfilled life. PNC bank, brilliantly boring since 1865. Brilliantly boring since 1865 is a service mark of the PNC Financial Service Group, Inc. PNC Bank National association member, FDIC.
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Podcast Host 2
When I did the podcast with you all, I was telling you probably the most impactful interview I've done in my career.
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Vlad Tenev
Heroes now, like real heroes.
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Podcast Host 1
I heard Rashad Detroit talk about the.
- [04:02]
Podcast Host 2
Tax lift, about finance. But we talk in a language that.
- [04:06]
Podcast Host 1
Is common to the people.
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Podcast Host 2
That's from the communities that we grew up in.
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Vlad Tenev
You all are the bright spot.
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Pharmaceutical Advertiser
Thank you.
- [04:12]
Vlad Tenev
Real estate.
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Podcast Host 1
Thank you. And entrepreneurship for black Americans.
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Klarna/Square Advertiser
This is the knowledge that actually matters. I applaud both of you.
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Podcast Host 1
For us.
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Vlad Tenev
Thank you.
- [04:21]
Podcast Host 2
Literacy isn't a a country issue. It's not American issue. It's a world issue.
- [04:25]
Vlad Tenev
He came to earn our leisure.
- [04:34]
Podcast Host 1
All right, guys, welcome back.
- [04:36]
Podcast Host 2
Yeah.
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Podcast Host 1
Special episode. We are on site at Robin Hood's New York office.
- [04:40]
Podcast Host 2
Absolutely.
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Podcast Host 1
Nora, Vlad, thanks for the hospitality and the whole team.
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Vlad Tenev
We greatly appreciate it, guys. Yeah, yeah, always.
- [04:46]
Podcast Host 2
You have become a regular audience, and we're very appreciative of always getting the invite to sit down.
- [04:52]
Vlad Tenev
Well, you guys have seen our trajectory from, I think the first time I was on your show, we were sort of in a relatively low point in our journey then. Each time I think it's better and better. So I'm thankful to you guys.
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Podcast Host 2
I'm glad. You know, it's the theme every time you come on. There's. We just keep moving up, keep going.
- [05:12]
Podcast Host 1
Up, keep going up. So, Vlad Tenev, thank you for joining us. CEO of Robin Hood. And we have a lot to talk about, but congratulations in advance for everything that you guys have been doing over the last year has been astonishing.
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Vlad Tenev
There's Much, much more to do. I'm always looking forward. Yeah, we are in no way, shape or form done with our mission, so plenty more to do.
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Podcast Host 2
I think when we look at 2025 and its totality, obviously the stock has tripled. You've been added to the S and P. What is one of the most proud moments this year? So that has happened.
- [05:46]
Vlad Tenev
I think that my proudest moment was, it was right before Hood Summit, which was our Active Trader event. Everyone was sort of like we'd been working hard all year, right. And it's, it's not just the things you mentioned, but we've done so many product events. We started with our Gold event, the Lost City of Gold, where we launched a new digital advisory service and Robinhood Banking and also Cortex, which is our AI model. So that the year started off with a bang. Prediction markets became a big thing. We've been spending a lot of time working on that. We have our Active Trader event. We launched Tokenization in Europe, which in the French Riviera, where I wore a very nice white pinstripe suit. And then we went to our Active Trader event and a few weeks before, we were in a meeting with the senior team and I said, you know what, guys? We've been making such good progress in AI. We haven't really shared it with the world. We've also been making a ton of progress with prediction markets that we've never really talked publicly in event form about. I know everyone's working hard about Hood Summit, but why don't we do another event too in the middle of December, and that became Robinhood. Yes, no. Which is happening on December 16th. Prediction markets and AI. And basically I survived that meeting and everyone was actually excited about launching new products right at the end of the year. So I think the culture of the company is at a point where we move fast, we do it safely, and we've just been like shipping great product at a velocity that makes me proud. So I think that's the biggest thing from the year that I'm proud of and thankful for.
- [07:38]
Podcast Host 1
So, yeah, so as Troy said, the Stock is up 263% over the last 52 weeks. So what did, what did, what did Wall street get wrong about Robin Hood? Because like you said when we first met, it was a, it was a, it was kind of a, a rough patch that you guys were going through and a lot of people kind of counted you guys out, especially from a stock standpoint. But your stock has rallied and, and has been, you know, a huge success for the Shareholders. So what do you think you guys did right? And the people that bet against you, what did they have wrong?
- [08:12]
Vlad Tenev
The number one thing is probably product velocity, being able to ship so many products at high quality quickly at scale. And when you couple that with a large, already engaged customer base, we can distribute the product very effectively to customers. And that's led to increase in revenues. So we've been able to increase revenues and actually the, the growth rate of revenues has been quite high year over year, while simultaneously improving margins. I think that's a rare combination. There's this financial metric called rule of 40 that maybe you guys are familiar with. Sometimes people compare companies on this metric, and basically you add your revenue growth rate to your margins, and if the number is greater than 40, that's sort of like a, a good target. So revenue growth rate plus margins. And the argument there is you can be growing fast and have low margins, and that's okay. That's like a. Considered a good investment, or you could be growing more slowly, but if your margins are good, then that compensates for it. And I think our last rule of 40 print was over 100. So if you, if you plot all the companies in the S&P 500 across this metric, Robinhood is just a huge outlier. And it's because we've been able to grow very quickly while also improving margins at the same time. And I think that's, that's a rare combination for, for public company.
- [09:49]
Podcast Host 2
Yeah. When we first met, it was just before the idea of the meme stock, which obviously your platform got a lot of flack for. And it was, oh, the retail traders don't know what they're doing. And then we saw you speak and we met again. It was the idea of like, the retail trader is the sophisticated trader.
- [10:09]
Vlad Tenev
Yeah.
- [10:10]
Podcast Host 2
Talk about the role and how that's transpired over the past two or three years to now that everybody's in on it. Like, hey, the retail is where we can get a lot of our customer base from because they have the tools.
- [10:22]
Vlad Tenev
I think companies are waking up to this. You know, we, we were relatively early to embrace the retail trader because the retail trader is our customer. So of course we're, we have a natural incentive as a company to have our customers be shareholders. Right. Because not not only are they our are shareholders, but they're people that use the product every day. You know, our product is a stock market investing product at its core. And one of the things I'm very proud of is the work that we've done on IPO Access, I mentioned you guys a little earlier is my second trip to New York this week. First time I was at the New York Stock Exchange on Tuesday at a roundtable called Make IPOs Great Again, funny name. They had the red hats too, which, which by the way, the idea that, you know, the administration and the regulators are coming to, to Robinhood as a representative of, of the retail investor to, to collect feedback for how to make capital markets and IPOs better was something that probably I wouldn't have imagined the first time we met in 2022. So pretty crazy how quickly things can change. But when we went public in 21, we rolled out this product called IPO Access. And the idea was not just have IPOs be for the chosen few, the elites, the high net worth, the private wealth folks, and obviously the institutions, but how do we plug Robinhood investors directly into IPOs and get them allocations at the same price on a level playing field with the institutions. And so our IPO at the time was I think the largest IPO retail allocation for an IPO of its size. And we tried to get other companies on board, we got some, but they were very skeptical and reluctant. You know, some people actually to be fair, really bought into it. But most companies, we had to ask for favors and you know, they would throw us a few scraps like we'll give you half a percent of the IPO allocation. Um, so we really asked for favors and people didn't really get it. They're like, what's the point? I'm just trying to take my company public, go through the process, get it over with so I can get back to running my business. They didn't really see the point. And Fast forward to 2025 this year when the IPOs have come back. Every company of consequence has basically come to us and asked, let's talk about our retail strategy. How do we get retail more engaged? And you've started to see the, the CEOs of those companies when they're doing their press about the ipo, talking about how retail's big constituency and saying, you know, in the case of, of bullish CEO, we give retail 20% allocation. It's one of the largest retail allocations ever. Gemini CEO, the Winklevoss wins gave a huge retail allocation and you know, now it's completely shifted where retail is definitely being a first class citizen. So what we're trying to do is push that forward, go deeper into IPOs and continue the, the leadership we have there post IPO. We want to make the brand of Being a public company a little bit better. I don't know if you guys have, I'm sure you talk to a lot of entrepreneurs, some of whom are public. Generally the perception and the way they talk about being public is negative. We have to be public. But I hate earnings calls. I hate this, I hate that. It's a choreograph and what I'm trying to do is shift it into being a positive thing. So rather than thinking of your earnings calls as a chore, how can they become fun? Can you as the executive be, have fun during earnings and also can the audience actually enjoy watching it? So we've been investing a lot in actually making our earnings calls. Not just informative but, but entertaining. So for the last one we did it at the Chase center, home of the, the Warriors, State warriors. And we not only had the sell side analysts, who's the typical earnings audience, but we had buy side investors. We also had the media. So the media was, was at our earnings calls and everyone could ask questions on a level playing field. We had retail investors via Zoom asking questions. And then of course the whole thing was, was, was televised. So it was on live stream on social media. And you know, go back a year ago, our earnings calls were on a Polycom audio only. We had maybe like hundreds of people listening and now it's, it's gone to tens of thousands so orders of magnitude increase in the audience for earnings. And now we're starting to actually export this as a product to other public companies. So Opendoor, for example, they saw what we were doing. They said we want to engage retail, we want retail to be our number one constituency. So we work with them to live stream their earnings to our audience in the Robin Hood app. And we've heard from many people that you know, they'd like to start doing this. So I think you'll see earnings calls becoming fun and I think the brand of being a public company start to shift into a more positive thing. And also on the other side of the spectrum, before a company is going to public, when they're still private or hard at work trying to get retail exposure on the private side and making that a little bit easier, we have a great initiative called Robinhood Ventures which is going to be in the US and we're launching a closed end fund that's on file with the SEC right now. So we're actually in the quiet period. I can't talk much about it but, but the idea is make it so that retail investors can invest in the best private companies before they go public. So we're kind of tackling it across every part of the spectrum.
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Podcast Host 1
Yeah. Talk about just from a retail standpoint, how that's changed, and you guys played a major part in that. Retail investors used to be called dumb money, not really taken seriously because they were not educated. But now they have a higher level of education platforms like ourselves and your platform, and they're more respected. But there's also more risk because they're taking more risk now, too. Right. Like they're doing things that a lot of people didn't even think about doing before as far as options and futures and, you know, leveraging different things of that nature. So what, what is your thoughts on this, the state of a retail investor in 2025, and what are some opportunities and what are some, some dangers that they need to be aware of?
- [16:58]
Vlad Tenev
I think that retail investors, I think retail investors being a bigger chunk of the markets is a very good thing for companies because you notice a lot of times there's some Mac Ernest, what's up?
- [17:18]
Klarna/Square Advertiser
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- [18:19]
Indeed Advertiser
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- [19:15]
iHeart Podcast Announcer
Run a business and not thinking about podcasting. Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart streaming radio and podcasting. Call 844-844-IHeart to get started. That's 844-844, iHeart.
- [19:46]
Rip Current Narrator
May 24, 1990. A pipe bomb explodes in the front seat of environmental activist Judy Berry's car.
- [19:54]
Rip Current Interviewee
I knew it was a bomb. This is second that it exploded. I felt it rip through me with just a force more powerful and terrible than anything that I could describe.
- [20:04]
Rip Current Narrator
In season two of Rip Current, we ask who tried to kill Judy Berry and why. She received death threats before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing.
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Vlad Tenev
The men and women who were hurt had planned to lead a summer of militant protest against logging practices in Northern California. They were climbing trees and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods.
- [20:26]
Rip Current Narrator
The timber industry, I mean, it was the number one industry in the area. But more that it was the culture, it was the way of life.
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Vlad Tenev
I think that this is a deliberate.
- [20:34]
iHeart Podcast Announcer
Attempt to sabotage our movement.
- [20:36]
Rip Current Narrator
Episodes of rip current season two are available now listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [20:47]
Mike Della Rocha
For 25 years, I've explored what it means to heal not just for myself, but alongside others. I'm Mike Della Rocha. This is sacred lessons, A space for reflection, growth, and collective healing. What do you tell men that are hurting right now?
- [21:05]
Podcast Host 2
Everything's gonna be okay. On the other side, you know, just push through it.
- [21:09]
Mike Della Rocha
And you know, ironically, the root of the word spirit is breath.
- [21:13]
Vlad Tenev
Wow.
- [21:14]
Mike Della Rocha
Which is why one of the most revolutionary acts that we can do as people is just breathe.
- [21:19]
Vlad Tenev
Next to the wound is their gifts. You can't even find your gifts unless you go through the wound.
- [21:25]
Podcast Host 1
That's the hard thing.
- [21:26]
Vlad Tenev
You think, well, I'm going to get my gifts.
- [21:27]
Pharmaceutical Advertiser
I don't want to go through all that.
- [21:28]
Vlad Tenev
You got to Go through the wounds you left listening to other people's near death experiences and that's all they say. In conclusion, love is the answer.
- [21:36]
Mike Della Rocha
Listen to Sacred Lessons as part the of of the My Gu Podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts grow event.
- [21:47]
Vlad Tenev
Like we, we saw it this year with the tariffs. We saw it a couple of weeks ago with the sort of like Fed decision in December. Is the Fed going to cut? Maybe they'll refrain from cutting and that affects the markets. And it's because institutional investors tend to like make broad portfolio moves without really looking deeply at each individual company. It's sort of like I'm risk off. I'm going to reallocate from my stocks to, to fixed income or move to cash. Retail investors tend to invest directly in companies and they make their buy and sell decisions based on the company doing well. So for example, when the tariffs hit, you know, you saw a lot of growth companies that probably weren't directly affected by tariffs hit rather hard by that, right? And retail investors looking at this and saying why this company just go down 40% doesn't make any sense. Tariffs have nothing to do with it. It's just because hedge funds are selling everything, right? So then they bought in, they became net buyers and then they became rewarded for it. So I think the more retail investors come into the market, the less this like indexing thing is going to lead to price dislocations. I think the more signal you'll get of people buying companies because they actually want to invest in that specific company. And I think also retail investors are smart and what's really attractive about companies is they're not only smart and doing like careful analysis and posting it on social media, but when they become investors, they become kind of defenders and fans of the company. I think one problem you're seeing with the AI companies right now is AI technology is very popular. People are adopting it. But the AI companies themselves are very unpopular. They don't have that many fans. If, if you see criticism about, you know, say OpenAI or Anthropic, the people rushing to defend them are either venture capitalists online or, you know, AI researchers that work at these companies. But you, you compare that to crypto. You know, if the crypto industry is under threat from, you know, regulatory overreach or even if just someone says something negative about Bitcoin, you just have an army of retail people that just take the knives out and you know, people are nervous to say anything negative about bitcoin. Now. And I think it's because the one thing crypto got very, very right from a very early point, I mean, from basically the genesis of it, is making it so that normal people can have crypto. Then you see everyone's invested in crypto. You know, you got tens of millions of people in this country, so they're going to defend it because they, they own it. And I think AI doesn't have that property. The big private companies are held by wealthy insiders, so they don't have as many defenders. And I think that could become a big problem for them because, you know, if it starts taking more jobs or at least disrupting the labor force at an accelerated rate, I think people are going to get angrier and angrier. I think what's going to happen is if regulations come, they're not going to have people fighting. The everyday person might not be on the side of the big AI companies. I think that's a threat to the technology.
- [25:15]
Podcast Host 2
Yeah, there's some talk from a lot of leaders in AI about the regulatory environment and how if it gets too stringent, we'll be fall behind. Obviously you, I'm sure you're part of some of these conversations from a broker standpoint, but also from the crypto standpoint. How, how do you see it in terms of this race in AI?
- [25:34]
Vlad Tenev
Yeah, it's interesting to me to compare how much regulation is, is in financial services. You know, quite a bit highly regulated compared to what we've seen with AI, which is actually very little. Like it's mostly been allowed to do whatever they go in and disrupt and, and, and you know, it's hard to say that that's been wrong because thus far I think that the effects have been largely positive from my standpoint. I mean, you're seeing increases in productivity largely. It hasn't displaced too much labor participation, but, you know, the models are getting better and better and I think we've gone from just summarizing information that's already out there to creating new knowledge. And you know, the knowledge is maybe small bits and chunks here and there, but you can imagine as they get better, you know, the knowledge being created is, and the discoveries being made and maybe new inventions will come that are more and more complicated. So then it starts to get scary and you start thinking about, you know, how big is the disruption, how do we mitigate the, the negative effects. And I think the best way is to make sure people are invested in it.
- [26:51]
Podcast Host 2
Yeah.
- [26:51]
Vlad Tenev
So that, you know, at least you own the thing that's disrupting you, it's, you're always, you're always going to be in better shape if you have some, a stake in, in the, the agent of disruption.
- [27:00]
Podcast Host 2
Yeah, just a follow up because I asked that, because I watched your clip where you talked about your belief in artificial intelligence. You're on the record saying that is.
- [27:09]
Vlad Tenev
Going to create a new world order.
- [27:10]
Podcast Host 2
Diminishing people's chances to earn income from labor and fueling participation in markets and trading on brokerage apps. And when you said it, I was like, this is what we've been saying all along. You have to invest. It's the only way. How are you going to do it? Speaking to that audience now of who's going to be interrupted and disrupted, knowing that your brokerage has a youth movement, it just feels like those things align. How are you viewing it in the terms of the future, in terms of disruption in investing?
- [27:39]
Vlad Tenev
Yeah, I mean I think that when I talk to people it sort of like breaks down by age a little bit. So for older folks such as myself, I don't think they're worried that much. They're like, oh well, you know, we're going to retire soon. And not exactly for me, I'm not going to retire soon. But you know, if you're in a certain age, you're already mid career, late career, you probably don't care as much. Young people in their 20s and 30s go into two buckets. Some are like super bull and they're like, I'm going to use AI to build a company very entrepreneurially. People who are very excited about this. But yeah, there, there's, you know, folks in their 20s that are maybe a little bit less entrepreneurial that were sort of like planning on a stable career path and they're very nervous. They don't know if that job that they were maybe going to college to get is going to be around in 10 years. And there's a lot of uncertainty. I think there will be job disruption. I think certain categories are easier to predict than others. Like it probably wouldn't want to go into telemarketing right now as a, as a profession for example. But I also think there's going to be new jobs that are, that are created and new job categories. And I mean, for example, your guys job like influencer and content creator. It's very hard for people to be influencers and content creators even 10 years ago. Right. This is like a new thing. So I think you'll get a bunch of new things like that. And I think the field that you guys are in is going to continue to grow. There's going to be more people that, that are. That are going into that path. So not. Not all is lost. And I think the jobs of the future will tend to look like leisure to us. Yeah, I mean, you imagine 50 years ago, like our grandparents in the workforce working at a big company, or maybe 100 years ago, if they were working in a factory or something like that. Looking at what we're doing today, you guys are recording shows. I'm at a computer, typing, you know, probably wouldn't have looked like real work. They'd be like, oh, these guys are just horsing around, you know, why. Why aren't they picking up tools and building stuff, you know? But, you know, we take our jobs very, very seriously, and I think we'll probably have that same view of people two generations from now.
- [30:04]
Podcast Host 1
So you're not, you're not worried about, like, doomsday scenario when it comes to AI?
- [30:09]
Vlad Tenev
I think that we'll be able to manage it. Yeah, I'm very, I'm very optimistic. I mean, I don't think that. I think a lot of people feared about a fast takeoff. And, you know, when you guys saw GPT4 came out and it was like a big change qualitatively over GPT 3.5, the original ChatGPT. Now we're on, you know, GPT 5, Gemini 3. These models are good, but it's not like each one's getting 10 times better than the last. And there was this report 20. It was called, like, AI 2027 by an AI researcher. Maybe you guys have read this and, you know, recently they updated and they were like, okay, we thought everything would happen by 2027. It's going a little bit slower than we imagined. We're revising it to 2030. So AI researchers call that a slow takeoff scenario. And a slow takeoff is sort of good because that means we'll have more time than we thought to adapt and, and actually, you know, make. Make changes. So I, I think we'll get there. I think initiatives like getting more people in the markets, making sure the young people and the babies have brokerage accounts from birth through the Invest America initiative will get us there. I think there'll be more entrepreneurship, and probably that entrepreneurship will look like leisure to us today, which also is a good thing.
- [31:36]
Podcast Host 1
Where do you see crypto going? Because obviously that's a major staple in what you guys have built with robinhood. We're in 2025, let's say 2035, right?
- [31:46]
Vlad Tenev
Yeah.
- [31:47]
Podcast Host 1
Where. Where do you see crypto going and bitcoin specifically?
- [31:52]
Vlad Tenev
Yeah, I think the, the biggest needle mover for crypto is that it's going to help take the great things we've built in the US and make them increasingly global and available to investors all around the world, some of which haven't had access to these tools. Because I think we kind of take it for granted here that we have the US dollar, we have access to US stocks, we have really high quality assets. When Robinhood gets our private initiatives, we'll be able to distribute access to private companies. So we have really good investments and ways to allocate your capital. If you're, if you're in Venezuela, you don't have access to those things. And that's actually why stablecoins have been so popular. Because, you know, a lot of these people are in countries that have unstable governments, unstable central banks. If they do have central banks at all, they don't have functional banking systems. Currencies are devaluing and they're just adding zeros and zeros to them. The bills are, are worthless. So stablecoins really became popular as a way to store your wealth in US dollars because, you know, the crypto companies actually went in and, and built local rails connecting to, to all of these markets. So they've been plugged into the crypto system. And I think crypto will evolve with tokenization to make it easy to distribute US stocks and other investments overseas as easily as stablecoins have, have done it to dollars. So I think that's the future. Crypto will sort of like the technology will help stitch together all of the markets and make it so that everyone is on a level playing field outside the US as we are in here. That's at least the future that we're, we're working to build.
- [33:43]
Podcast Host 1
So you believe in our ecosystem, not just bitcoin? You're not a bitcoin maxi.
- [33:47]
Vlad Tenev
I'm not a bitcoin maxi, Yeah. I mean, I'm a bitcoin fan and I think bitcoin has an inherent advantage.
- [33:55]
Podcast Host 1
Price, Price prediction.
- [33:57]
Vlad Tenev
Oh, price predictions are tough. I would tell you I'm pretty, I'm pretty bull. And if you told me at the beginning of the year that there would be like a national bitcoin strategic reserve and all of these DATs and we would still be sitting here basically flat for the year, maybe a little bit up, I'd be, I'd be surprised. It's got a lot going for it. It's a singular asset. Right. It'll always Be the first. So I think, I think it's got a bit of a religion around it with the bitcoin maxis and that's hard to fight relative to the other coins.
- [34:34]
Podcast Host 2
Yeah, I think obviously if you look at the correlation between the rise of bitcoin Getting up to 126,000, you watch your stock also get toward its all time high around the same time people feel like there's a correlation there, but there's also a piece that has helped the stock and that's the predictive markets.
- [34:51]
Vlad Tenev
Yeah.
- [34:51]
Podcast Host 2
So not only could you invest in bitcoin, but you could say, hey, I see it getting to a hundred thousand by December 31st. Talk about the role that predictive markets have played because we talked about it like you were thinking about it, we were talking about poly market the last time we met in Miami. And now predictive markets are a thing, a real thing that I feel like you guys have adopted right away. Some of the, the other people in the space haven't looking at you guys like, this is a leader. Do we need to add this, this is going to be disruptive.
- [35:20]
Vlad Tenev
Yeah, absolutely. And it's, it's kind of a fun position for, for me to be in because typically when you look at crypto and all the other products we've added, I mean stocks probably the best example, we were like years after the leaders. Right. I mean stocks went electronic in the 80s. Basically. E trade got started. The idea was to trade stocks on the Apple Macintosh. Apple Macintosh had come out and these two guys got together in Palo Alto, California and were like, what if we use the Apple Macintosh to trade stocks? And I think that was in 1982, which is pretty crazy. So we were multiple decades late to the game for electronic trading in stocks. Crypto started in 2009. We added crypto to the platform in 2017 actually. Yeah, 2018 was when, when you could start trading it. So typically we've had an approach where we come in after there's like clarity that it's a real thing that people want and then we just bring our scale, lower costs and you know, better UX to the product. So prediction markets is a new one for us because we were kind of out in front and then it's sort of like how do we maintain our lead and market positioning? And you know, when we have a bunch of people coming after us. It has surprised me that, you know, you have the exchanges like, like Paulie and Kalshi who have obviously been, been there from the beginning, but like no other broker has has gotten into it yet no other broker of significant consequence. And I, I think they're coming like they're seeing what we're doing and they see that it's resonating with traders and, and just with mass market retailers. But yeah, I think we're also moving and, and we're adding new innovations. I think the event that we're gonna, we're gonna unveil on the 16th is gonna, is gonna show some new things to people that, that they haven't seen before. And it's the fastest growing business that Robinhood's had. You know, in the past year, we've gone from one single contract, which is the presidential election, to over 1500.
- [37:34]
Klarna/Square Advertiser
Earnest what's up? Look, when it comes to money, control is everything. Knowing how and when to move your dollars. That's where the Klarna card comes in. It's your debit card upgraded. You decide how to pay, whether in full now or you plan ahead to pay later. It works anywhere. Visa accepted activation takes 30 seconds and there's zero credit impact. To apply. No surprises, no stress, just smarter, more intentional spending that keeps you in control. Sign up for the Klarner card by downloading the Klarner app or learn more at klarner.com us klarner-card klarner card pay Later Plans issued by Web bank Deposits in your balance account are held in web bank member FDIC anywhere Visa is accepted. Certain merchant product good and service restrictions apply. Some merchants do not accept virtual cards, physical card only included with a paid Klarner membership plan. Sign up for the Klarner card by downloading the Klarner app and learn more@klarner.com us klarnercard.
- [38:34]
Indeed Advertiser
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- [39:32]
iHeart Podcast Announcer
Run a business and not thinking about podcasting. Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across the broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart streaming radio and podcasting. Call 844-844-IHeart to get started. That's 844-844, iHeart.
- [40:03]
Rip Current Narrator
May 24, 1990. A pipe bomb explodes in the front seat of environmental activist Judy Berry's car.
- [40:11]
Rip Current Interviewee
I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it rip through me with just a a force more powerful and terrible than anything that I could describe.
- [40:20]
Rip Current Narrator
In season two of Rip Current, we ask who tried to kill Judy Berry and why. She received death threats before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing.
- [40:31]
Vlad Tenev
The men and women who were hurt had planned to lead a summer of militant protest against logging practices in Northern California. They were climbing trees and they were.
- [40:40]
Klarna/Square Advertiser
Sabotaging logging equipment in the woods.
- [40:43]
Rip Current Narrator
The timber industry, I mean, it was the number one industry in the area. But more than it was the culture, it was the way of life.
- [40:49]
Vlad Tenev
I think that this is a deliberate.
- [40:51]
iHeart Podcast Announcer
Attempt to sabotage our movement.
- [40:53]
Rip Current Narrator
Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are available now listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [41:03]
Rip Current Interviewee
If one of us wins, will we all win? I'm Ashlee Reitfeld and I'm the host of the women's skateboarding podcast. Good luck with that. Good Luck with that is a skateboarding podcast that is part cultural record, part news brief, mostly group therapy and a place to talk about the past, present, and future of women and gender. Expansive Skateboarding this week, me and my co hosts Nora Vasconcelos and Alex White. We have Fabiana Delfino on the show, a professional skateboarder from Florida whose grit was forged in a family of athletes. Tune in to hear how she broke into the boys club, what it takes to be pro, and why just being grateful you're here shouldn't be the price of entry. Maybe the industry thinks that we just.
- [41:41]
Vlad Tenev
Started skating five years ago because that's.
- [41:43]
Rip Current Interviewee
When they maybe started paying attention. It's a no fluff conversation about putting in the years, stacking clips and receipts and still having to prove your worth while the industry catches up. You break down the door. Sick now like hold the door for everyone. We created. Good luck with that because we want to share our experience existing in an industry that wasn't always built for everyone. So listen to Good luck with that on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [42:07]
Vlad Tenev
We've gone from. It's basically the volume has doubled quarter over quarter. Q3 had, I want to say 2.2 million contracts, but then October had 2.5 million. So more than Q3 put together. And then you had November. We announced some November numbers. Three billion contracts traded in November, which is, yeah, it's a 30 million revenue in a month. So, so 360 million run rate if you, if you take the November numbers, which is a big ramp. And I think, you know, it's, it's, it's just been really resonating with, with the traders and sports betting, sports, a big part of it, but the big part of what we're doing is also diversifying the contracts. So it used to be just elections and elections I think to me is probably the most interesting. Then we added sports and we've added a ton of leagues.
- [43:10]
Podcast Host 1
There is this sports betting or like what is it exactly?
- [43:14]
Vlad Tenev
I, I liked most people I took to call it wagering.
- [43:19]
Podcast Host 1
Wagering, okay.
- [43:20]
Podcast Host 2
I like the language there.
- [43:23]
Vlad Tenev
I think it's different in all seriousness to sports betting and a lot of people ask about, you know, how is it different from a regulatory standpoint, from a product standpoint? I think it's significantly different. And I haven't really done much sports betting but. And what people love about it is you can actually trade these contracts during the game. So you know, the, because it's a, it's a two sided market. The, the exchanges run the contracts while the games are happening and that's when the information's coming in. I mean for, for example, you can see how each play changes, changes the odds and the outcomes and you can go in and out of the positions. And a lot of the market participants that are coming in both from the market maker side and sort of like on the trading side are the same market participants that have been trading futures and equities. So I think it's disruptive to sports betting, but I see it as a fundamentally different animal and a better product, which is why I think all the traditional sports betting sites are so nervous about it. And they're just sort of like, yeah, they see the writing on the wall and they're, they're working as hard as possible to figure out their prediction market strategy. And some of Them are outright pivoting to prediction markets completely.
- [44:50]
Podcast Host 2
As soon as you said that November's numbers went up, I automatically thought NFL in its height, Colleen is height. But it's not just sports.
- [44:56]
Vlad Tenev
An NBA, NBA is in.
- [44:57]
Podcast Host 2
It's kicking off. World Series is just about to end.
- [45:00]
Vlad Tenev
Well, and we have, I think we mentioned this earlier, AI model contracts, which, you know, is a space I feel like I have some understanding of. And you have traders that are specializing in very specific areas. And, you know, like four months ago, it was, I think, 35% chance that Gemini would have the best model by the end of the year. Chat GPT started the year ahead.
- [45:27]
Podcast Host 2
Right.
- [45:28]
Vlad Tenev
And you know, if, if you really, for folks that really kind of understood what was happening in the AI world, it seemed like conventional wisdom was wrong. Right? You have Google, who's on a steep trajectory, and they have all the data, all the compute. They're highly motivated. I think now we look at the Gemini release and it's like, well, it's so obvious they had all these tools. But back then, I think conventional wisdom was wrong. So I think for a trader, it's going to open up more possibilities and, you know, you can specialize in things because there's probably at least one topic that each person understands better than the average conventional wisdom. So I think it'll pull in more traders. But I think the most interesting thing for me is that it creates a new source of information. It's almost like, like the, the new media or new news where instead of watching talking heads pontificating about what's going to happen, you can just look at the market and then you'll learn a little bit about what's likely or what's even, what's even true in this world.
- [46:31]
Podcast Host 1
Do you have any reservations about this? Because it's like young people now are they're betting on sports more than they're opening brokerage accounts. So we know that gambling has been long history in America, but most of the time people that gamble lose money, right? So that's always been a thing of like, well, what's the difference between gambling and investing? And for a long time you could say, well, investing is a game of knowledge and gambling is a game of chance, right? Like you invest in the s and P500, you hold it, you're going to make money. You go to Vegas, there's a 50, 50 chance. But now essentially, the worlds are colliding and investing is kind of turning into gambling. Like prediction markets, right. It's kind of like a form. It's A form of gambling in a more sophisticated way. Right. So even with the political thing, I mean, we see what happens in sports betting. People bet a lot of money on sports. They're going to do things to determine that their team is going to win, which leads to corruption, which we see FBI have an investigation on the NBA now. Yeah, the same thing can happen in politics. If I bet a million dollars that this senator is going to win, like, you know, now you, you get into a very gray area of very, you know, kind of a dark, a dark pathway that could be followed. So I say that to say, do you think that this is actually a form of gambling? And do you think that it is kind of opening doorways to, you know, a new way of people just instant gratification gambling on everything in society?
- [48:00]
Vlad Tenev
I, I think it's a little bit different. I mean, if, if you look at financial markets there, there's been, there's been a lot of people think trading and gambling are, are one and the same. I think it's a little bit different. And I think every financial market has been sort of like under this attack. When futures trading first rolled out to retail a few decades ago. You know, a lot of people ask this question, why is a retail investor speculating on the price of oil or corn? They're certainly not hedging their corn exposure in any significant way. And I think the answer is in order for a market to work, you need speculators. And then some people say, well, you know, what's the difference between speculation and gambling? It's kind of two words describing the same thing. You're making a short term price prediction on what's going to happen. And you know, you're putting, you're putting money behind that. And of course when you're putting money behind a short term price prediction, there's risk involved. But I think we need the speculators because without the speculators the market isn't effective for the hedgers. So every market requires speculation in order, in order to, to work. Now I don't think everyone should be speculating with all of their money, but I think what we're seeing is people have different buckets. You know, they have even the most active traders that we have on the platform. Those are the ones that tend to be most likely to open up retirement accounts as well. So you know, we do have people that are just using Robinhood for, for trading. But if you take a typical active trader, they tend to be the ones that use us for all of their things. So they'll have a retirement account. They'll have, you know, a discretionary. Maybe they'll have a dividend portfolio. We rolled out a nice feature called multiple brokerage accounts, which actually lets you put your money in different buckets. And you know, the, increasingly we have banking, so we've got their, you know, checking and savings accounts with us. So what it looks like is a trader comes in, maybe they come for prediction markets increasingly or crypto or stock and options trading, and then they open up a bunch of accounts with us, they use a lot of our products, and then all of their, ideally all their money ends up at Robinhood. But. Yeah, so in a hypothetical world where everyone was just speculating 100% of their money, I think that would be not great for society. But that's, that's not what we're seeing. And in terms of what we incentivize as a company, you know, the behavior that we incentivize, we incentivize retirement. So a retirement account is the one where rock bottom cost, 3% match. So we actually incentivize you to put, to put money in. And that's been incredibly successful. Over 25 billion in assets, one and a half million funded retirement accounts. I think among the fastest growing, if not the singular fastest growing retirement product of all time. So what we really want to build is we want to be your financial super app. We want to be your primary and your secondary financial account. So all of your activities should be, should be done at Robinhood and you raise the integrity concern. Well, how do you know that someone's not, you know, taking advantage of their inside information to, to make money on these things? And I think this is a criticism that you can levy on, you know, the conventional sports books as well. And they've gotten into some heat for that. And they're saying, well, this is why it has to be regulated by the states, because we have all the machinery. Well, the financial markets have been dealing with market integrity concerns for decades. Like you can imagine, it's pretty analogous to a corporate insider or someone that works at a company using information that they have upcoming product launch to make money. And, you know, we have robust safeguards in the form of trade surveillance, monitoring. And it's actually one of the benefits of doing this in, in a, in a regulatory environment that has all of that set up rather than, you know, doing it offshore, where all bets are off, no, no pun intended, and there's no control so that it's happening anyway. People want to do it. It's like a growing regulated market. And I think it's better to have it in a place that has controls than the alternative.
- [52:55]
Podcast Host 2
Is there a part of you in the team that says, let's meet our customer base where they are, or maybe where our future customer base is?
- [53:02]
Vlad Tenev
Right.
- [53:02]
Podcast Host 2
If we know that, we've seen the spike of DraftKings, we've seen Flutter, which obviously owns FanDuel, we've seen Casino apps come and just take over, right? Even New York having sports betting now, we've seen income if we know that they're there. If we offer predictive markets, there's an opportunity to, yes, go from one spectrum to say, hey, there's more things to offer outside of just the sports betting. There are the retirement plans, there are brokerages, accounts that you can open is part of it. Let's meet them where we're at so we can convert them as well over to what we have as a totality.
- [53:37]
Vlad Tenev
I think that's a big part of it. I mean, when I say we want to be your primary and secondary financial account, what I really mean is you should deposit your paycheck into Robinhood Banking. We should be the place where you have your savings account, your emergency fund, and you should, of course, have your retirement. And if you want passively managed investments, we've got Robinhood Strategies, which I think is far and away the best digital advice product on the market, that launched earlier this year and rapidly went to over a billion.
- [54:11]
Podcast Host 2
From educational standpoint.
- [54:13]
Vlad Tenev
Well, from educational standpoint, for sure, but also just if you want a money button where you just put money in the account and it's invested for you reasonably at the lowest possible costs, I don't think there's a better digital advice product like a robo. Robo Advice is what it competes with. And then, of course, your discretionary trading and investing. So, yeah, we think we can serve all of your dollars. Right? Your money should come into Robinhood, and essentially we should make it so that you never feel like you have to transfer money out. And I think when we saw the rise of sports betting, which happened with the deregulation of gambling at the end of the last decade, you know, we. And you see the articles where actually it's been growing incredibly quickly. Young people especially are doing more of it. I think we had a little bit of a choice to make. You know, do we fight against this? You know, do we go out and say, you know, we're against it and people shouldn't be doing it, or do we actually, you know, take the stance that we think people should Be free to do whatever they want with their money, of course, within reason. And we want to make it a safe environment for, for them to, to do those things. And I think the reality is there is a lot of ways, there's a lot of ways out there that you.
- [55:43]
Podcast Host 1
Could.
- [55:46]
Vlad Tenev
Not even invest, but also just like spend money frivolously. I mean, we're just being bombarded with ads for buying different things and you know, not, not even just money, but time, you know, all these like digital video platforms that are just engaging us and sucking up our time. So if, if you look at, you know, the broader things that are keeping you from doing good behaviors, there's a lot of distractions out there. And I actually worry less broadly about sports betting than, you know, social media becoming super addictive and just sucking up all of our free time. Because time is also money. Right. You're spending four hours a day on social media. That's, that's, that's time you could be spending doing other things. So yeah, I think, I think that at the end of the day, you know, people have to make their, their own decisions for how to spend their time and, and money. And we have to do the best to help them do things that are good. But ultimately the user is in charge.
- [56:54]
Podcast Host 1
Howie, do you think that there's going to be an AI bubble and do you think that the economy as a whole is headed in a negative direction? A lot of people are forecasting a recession. Some people think that we've been in a recession. So what's your thoughts on a greater economy going into next year and the year after? And what's your thoughts on so much talk about the AI bust happening?
- [57:18]
Vlad Tenev
Yeah, I mean, to some degree we're always in, you know, no new technology that's as popular as AI is just smooth up and to the right. Right. People get excited about things. There's corrections. You saw it with crypto, you saw it with the Internet and the dot com. It's a question of where we are in that cycle. And my take is we're still rather early. Like we haven't even seen AI IPOs yet. Right. We've got two companies that are really, really big AI native companies, Nvidia and Google. You look at them from a fundamental standpoint, I don't think their price earnings are completely out of whack by historical measures. So yeah, near term I, I would say that public markets, they, they, they don't seem overly like they, they don't seem like they're overvaluing. What, what we're seeing in AI yet and I don't think a lot of the, the AI companies that are private, I mean, you know, he, you can, you can debate how real the data center build out is going to end up being and I think some of those things are rather complicated to parse the spend commitments with the chips. But if you look at the fundamentals, people are buying chips, the models are improving. Researchers say they don't see an end to reinforcement learning and pre training seems intact. So the models are continuing to get smarter, which makes me feel like at least in the near term we're going to keep seeing AI driving forward.
- [59:11]
Podcast Host 2
Yeah. So we talked about predictive markets, but one of the biggest revenue models for you guys lies in options trading, zero day trading, futures trading. With the new technology that you guys launched last year. Talk about the impact that it's had obviously on the company and where you're seeing your retail investors, are they staying, are you seeing more people in those spaces?
- [59:33]
Vlad Tenev
Yeah. Legend has been growing remarkably quickly. So Legend is our desktop active trader platform. And you know, month over month we're seeing, we're seeing continued growth and acceleration there and it's sort of like activity we wouldn't have gotten otherwise. So I think active traders, before we rolled out Legend, they were using our competitors because they need multiple screens, they need, you know, to chart on the same page as, as entering the order. So we weren't serving them optimally on mobile and these are our most engaged customers. Every time I ask, you know, how can we make Legend better on social media, I just get hundreds of comments of, of all of the specific things they want us to, to improve. So what gets me most excited is it's already quite big, people are already quite happy and I have just a endless list of more things that they want and I've got a great team on it that's like moving really fast and super motivated. So I think that's going to be a tailwind for the business. And we're doing things on Legend that nobody else is doing. Incorporating AI tools to make it even more differentiated experience for our traders. I think for an active trader they should feel like they're at a disadvantage using any earners.
- [61:00]
Klarna/Square Advertiser
What's up? Look, when it comes to money, control is everything. Knowing how and when to move your dollars, that's where the Klarna card comes in. It's your debit card upgraded. You decide how to pay, whether in full now or you plan ahead to pay later. It works anywhere. Visa accepted activation takes 30 seconds and there's zero credit impact. To apply no surprises, no stress, just smarter, more intentional spending that keeps you in control. Sign up for the Klarna card by downloading the Klarna app or learn more@klarner.com US Klarner Card Klarna Card Pay later Plans issued by Web bank deposits in your balance account are held in Webbank. Member FDIC Anywhere Visa is accepted, certain merchant product good and service restrictions apply. Some merchants do not accept virtual cards. Physical card only included with a paid Klarner membership plan. Sign up for the Klarner card by downloading the Klarner app and learn more@klarner.com us klarner-card you've finally broken loose from work.
- [62:02]
Vlad Tenev
Three friends, one tea time and then the text Honey, there's water in the basement. Not exactly how you pictured your Saturday.
- [62:12]
Rip Current Interviewee
That's when you call us.
- [62:13]
Vlad Tenev
Cincinnati Insurance. We always answer the call because real protection means showing up even when things are in the rough. Cincinnati Insurance let us make your bad day better.
- [62:26]
iHeart Podcast Announcer
Find an agent@cinfin.com run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iheart twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll Hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart streaming radio and podcasting. Call 844-844, iHeart to get started. That's 844-844, iheart.
- [63:01]
Rip Current Narrator
May 24, 1990 a pipe bomb explodes in the front seat of environmental activist Judy Berry's car.
- [63:09]
Rip Current Interviewee
I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it rip through me with just a force more powerful and terrible than anything that I could describe.
- [63:19]
Rip Current Narrator
In season two of RIP Current, we ask who tried to kill Judy Berry and why. She received death threats before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing.
- [63:29]
Vlad Tenev
The men and women who were hurt had planned to lead a summer of militant protest against logging practices in Northern California. They were climbing trees and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods.
- [63:41]
Rip Current Narrator
The timber industry, I mean, it was the number one industry in the area. But more than it was the culture, it was the way of life.
- [63:47]
Vlad Tenev
I think that this is a deliberate.
- [63:49]
iHeart Podcast Announcer
Attempt to sabotage our movement.
- [63:51]
Rip Current Narrator
Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are available now. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [64:02]
Klarna/Square Advertiser
For.
- [64:02]
Mike Della Rocha
25 years I've explored what it means to heal, not just for myself, but alongside others. I'm Mike Della Rocha. This is Sacred Lessons, a space for reflection, growth and collective healing. What do you tell men that are hurting right now?
- [64:20]
Podcast Host 2
Everything's gonna be okay on the other side, you know, just push through it.
- [64:24]
Mike Della Rocha
And you know, ironically, the root, other words, spirit is breath.
- [64:28]
Vlad Tenev
Wow.
- [64:29]
Mike Della Rocha
Which is why one of the most revolutionary acts that we can do as people is just breathe.
- [64:34]
Vlad Tenev
Next to the wound is their gifts. You can't even find your gifts unless you go through the wound. That's the hard thing. You think, well, I'm going to get my gifts.
- [64:42]
Podcast Host 2
I don't want to go through all that.
- [64:43]
Vlad Tenev
You got to go through the wounds you left listening to other people's near death experiences. And that's all they say. In conclusion, love is the answer.
- [64:51]
Mike Della Rocha
Listen to Sacred Lessons as part of the My Kura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever.
- [64:59]
Vlad Tenev
You get your podcasts, their platform. Then Robin Hood and the. A couple other things we're doing besides the AI integrations. We've added index options, which was a very common request. Index options, they trade around the clock. It, it allows you to hedge with a, a broad based market or index. And really quickly we've just grown our market share there to the point where, you know, we're, we're now among the biggest players if not the biggest options. Same story that's been more steady. We were already quite big. But if you look at the market share numbers which, which are public, we're either number one or tied. Tied to number one.
- [65:43]
Podcast Host 2
Every time I check it's number one.
- [65:44]
Podcast Host 1
Yeah. So.
- [65:45]
Vlad Tenev
So we've been doing well. Yeah. And, and I think we're on a path. But yeah, there, there's more to do. We're still under penetrated on web where a lot of the, of the market is. So I see Legend continuing to drive that our AI tools are still nascent. I think those are going to get a lot better. And then, you know, you could see actually prediction markets high overlap with our active traders. You could see that becoming more integrated into Legend. It's not even on Legend yet. And, and across all of our other surfaces.
- [66:18]
Podcast Host 1
So before we leave, I just wanted to ask you a question about. I know you and a lot of other tech billionaires have been spending a lot of time in dc.
- [66:25]
Vlad Tenev
Yep.
- [66:25]
Podcast Host 1
So I want to get your thoughts on the current administration, your conversations with the president and different initiatives. And then I think you have another story to tell about another politician that sent you a gift.
- [66:37]
Vlad Tenev
Oh, yes. Yeah.
- [66:38]
Podcast Host 1
Let's talk about politics. Let's talk about politics for a minute, shall we?
- [66:41]
Vlad Tenev
Let's do it. I mean, from the very beginning, I think Robin Hood has built ourselves up to be. And you could say at the beginning it was inadvertent. I think the, the philosophy of most Silicon Valley companies would be stay out of politics. At least when we got started in the middle of last decade, just build your stuff and, you know, probably ignore what's going on in Washington. And we started during the Obama administration, so we've gone through Obama, Trump 1, Biden and now Trump 2. And so we've had a good mix of, you know, first being ignored, then having generally favorable conditions during Trump 1, but maybe not as favorable as now, and then the Biden administration, which was just out outright hostile to crypto and, and retail trading in general. So we, we've kind of seen everything. And I think it became clear around 2019, 2020, when we became big, that, you know, the strategy of just doing our business in Silicon Valley and ignoring Washington was not working because our competitors, the big brokers and financial firms, were very plugged into Washington. And so, you know, this led to politicians, lawmakers, regulators who were hearing from all these people, just hearing negative things. And so we made a presence. We started investing quite a bit. We have a big office in D.C. full office with, you know, not just government affairs and legal, but actually engineering, security, you know, lots of people. It helps. I also grew up in the area. I was, I'm sort of a D.C. local, so I felt at least I, I knew where to go, you know, when, when, when, when, when I'm in the car, working my way over to Congress. But yeah, it's, it's always been. We've tried to go on both sides. We Republicans have historically been more receptive. Right. I mean, I've been to the White House at least five times this year, and I was not invited once during the Biden administration, despite the fact that we're a big, big financial company, you know, leading retail trading. So certainly we appreciate that this, this administration's been willing to engage and actually make America the, the center for Financial Services. And they have great initiatives like the Trump accounts, which are encouraging equity ownership, which we're very aligned with. So because they've been so willing to engage and lead, we've been more and more involved and, and we see it as an opportunity to further our mission. But it doesn't mean that, you know, we're not engaging with the Democrats as well because some of the Democrats are also, like, less on the hyper progressive socialist side and more middle of the road. And, you know, they want the US to also be number one in. In. In business and financial services. And so, yeah, we. We've continued to engage on both sides. And the. The thing you referred to earlier was. Yeah, I got a. A burner phone sent to me by. By Governor Gavin Newsome. And I was on a trip, and I come back and, you know, my team tells me, Gavin Newsom sent you a flip phone. I'm like, what. What do you mean? The Gavin Newsom? The governor? And I'm. I'm based in Menlo Park, California. They said, yes. You know, we checked with his team. It's real. Everyone thought it was a little bit strange, but okay. And I open up the phone, and it's Gavin Newsom's number in there. And of course, I call it immediately. Gavin. Gavin Newsom picks up and I'm like, governor, it's me, Vlad Tenev. I got your phone. Thank you. It's very nice. And, you know, to. To his credit, he said, look, there's a perception that the state of California and me personally are against entrepreneurship. We don't want. We're. We're an inhospitable place for you to build companies. I want you to know that, you know, you can call me at any time, and anytime you have a problem or you want to talk about how we can improve the state and make it a better place to. To do business, I'll pick up the call. And other people got this phone, too. So it wasn't just me.
- [71:03]
Podcast Host 1
It was like a marketing strategy because he could have just gave you his number.
- [71:06]
Vlad Tenev
That's true. Yeah.
- [71:09]
Podcast Host 2
Shout you.
- [71:10]
Podcast Host 1
Can you only call. Can you only call him from that phone?
- [71:13]
Vlad Tenev
I haven't tried. I've only tried calling him from that.
- [71:16]
Podcast Host 1
Like the Batman immediately.
- [71:17]
Podcast Host 2
Nora, let's get on this.
- [71:18]
Vlad Tenev
But I appreciated the gesture. So, I mean, it just shows you that I think that there are Democrats that are open to engaging with business and, like, what we're doing as well. And I think that, yeah, I mean, we're. We're obviously happy to. To engage with anyone on both sides to further the mission of. Of making everyone owners of. Of this great American industry. But of course, I do appreciate what this current administration is doing. They've been doing really good things in general. I think they're getting some of the important things right. And the Invest America Trump Accounts initiative in particular, I think can Change the world if implemented correctly. So with that one, I'm very excited. And of course I've told the president and the treasury who's overseeing it, that whatever we can do to make sure it goes smoothly, it's high quality, people actually use the accounts and it's not just buried somewhere inaccessible.
- [72:17]
Podcast Host 1
Explain that, what that is.
- [72:18]
Vlad Tenev
Yeah. So there's an initiative, it passed as part of the budget reconciliation bill earlier this year that'll give each child born in this country an investment account with $1,000 funded by treasury invested into a diversified portfolio of think like s and p. 500 tracks.s and P. Yeah, yeah. And you know, it would just be passive. The investments would go in, it would grow. And you know, when, when the child hits 18 and eventually, and then 35, there's hurdles where they assume greater control over that portfolio. But Michael Dell and his wife Susan donated, I think about six and a half billion to increase to give $250 to not just newborns, but backdated everybody under 10 years.
- [73:08]
Podcast Host 2
Yep.
- [73:10]
Vlad Tenev
And I think you're going to see more and more companies doing interesting things. So one of the areas of focus has been how do we make it as easy as possible for money to flow into these accounts from your family, from corporates and employers, from, you know, your church or other religious organizations. How can we make this sort of like a multi generational giving platform that makes it as easy as possible to actually give money from, from us to the next generation? And, and to me it's very powerful because in so many of the other things that we do, we're sort of like taking money from the future and, and spending it now. Like the national debt and big deficits are a form of that. Social Security. There's also an element of that. Like we're funding folks now and the, the debt is going to have to be paid for in the future. So I like to counteract that. The fact that this counteracts that I think is very powerful.
- [74:07]
Podcast Host 2
Yeah. And parents can put money into that account. And it's just the idea of compounded interest over time.
- [74:12]
Vlad Tenev
Right.
- [74:12]
Podcast Host 2
Somebody gets it at, when they're born, by the time they're 18, it reaches a certain amount. Obviously, if you put more into it, there'll be more. Whereas when we started the conversation almost it was like, what happens to the kid who's graduating high school in 20 years and now can't find a job or maybe college is not affordable. That accountant is at least there for them to pursue other things. Entrepreneurship is one of those things that she was talking about.
- [74:34]
Vlad Tenev
Yeah, absolutely. This is like a good foundation for, you know, not. Not just sort of a nest egg for the future financially, but also, I think, gives people skin in the game for American industries, like the biggest American companies. You'll sort of like, make sure that, you know, young people feel like they have some ownership, some skin in the game, and, you know, they'll be less likely to want to burn the system down if they actually have some skin in the game and are incented to. To protect it, which I think. I think is a good thing, because so many young people feel like they don't have skin in the game. And like, well, if.
- [75:16]
iHeart Podcast Announcer
If.
- [75:16]
Vlad Tenev
If the American government or the financial markets aren't working for me, what's my incentive to, you know, be a supporter of. Of free markets and. And. And ownership? And I think give. Giving people that ownership is. Yeah. Is much, much stronger. It's like when you own a piece of land or a house, you keep it in better condition. If you're just sort of like a visitor or even renting, I don't care about it as much.
- [75:46]
Podcast Host 2
My final question is, this is probably my favorite quote of yours this year. It was in a journal over the weekend, and they were talking about how you used to drive a modest Tesla car.
- [75:57]
Vlad Tenev
Yes.
- [75:57]
Podcast Host 2
And then the next quote, it says, why do I care about what other people perceive of the CEO of Robinhood? We were talking about watches before. In the piece. It talks about how you're collecting cars at this point. When did you.
- [76:12]
Vlad Tenev
We should acknowledge that you guys are wearing some very nice watches, as am I. This is our Robin Hood quartz special here.
- [76:18]
Podcast Host 2
Everything earned.
- [76:19]
Podcast Host 1
Is that one of one.
- [76:21]
Vlad Tenev
No, no, no. We are. We're testing it. We're testing it for broader distribution. So maybe at some point you'll be wearing these, too.
- [76:29]
Podcast Host 2
Maybe you'll see us in that watch.
- [76:31]
Vlad Tenev
Yeah.
- [76:31]
Podcast Host 2
I just want to know at what point during this past five, ten years did you get to the reckoning of, like, you know what? I'm living life on my terms.
- [76:41]
Vlad Tenev
I think it was probably either. Yeah. Probably end of. Somewhere between the end of 2022 and the end of 2023. Yeah. When things were actually quite negative in Robin Hood. And I think that that that quote was taken a little bit out of context or. I mean, I definitely said it, but what I was trying to communicate is that, you know, a lot of times as a CEO or just as a human being, you're. You're kind of pressured to do things a certain way based on appearances. How other People will, will perceive them. Other people want things, so maybe I should like support them publicly. And I think there was a general shift of let me just think about what I think is right and what I want and communicate that rather than trying to like do things or communicate things just because I think that's what other people want to see. So I think authenticity in a nutshell is, is, is actually important. I think I've gone back and forth on this. I didn't want the, the outcome to be, I really like nice things. Yeah. Because I'm actually back to driving the Tesla and wearing the Quartz watches. So yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't as much of a statement about luxury and spending money, but more that I think authenticity is important and if you find yourself doing something just because it's the conventional wisdom and it's not making you happy, then you're probably doing the wrong thing.
- [78:29]
Podcast Host 1
I'm Vlad. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it.
- [78:32]
Vlad Tenev
Thank you. Always a pleasure.
- [78:34]
Podcast Host 2
Appreciate you having us man. Thank you.
- [78:36]
Podcast Host 1
There you have it earners.
- [78:38]
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Podcast Host 2
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Klarna/Square Advertiser
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- [80:15]
iHeart Podcast Announcer
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.