← Earn Your Leisure
Earn Your Leisure
Why Kelis Left America to Buy a 300 Acre Farm in Kenya & Show Others How to Build Wealth in Africa
01:07:01
Loading summary
Transcript213 lines
- [00:00]
American Express Representative
When you're with Amex Business Platinum, going the extra mile for your business pays off. With five times membership rewards points on flights and prepaid hotels booked through amextravel.com you can earn more points to help grow your business. And with access to more than 1,400 lounges globally through the American Express Global Lounge Collection, including the Centurion Lounge.
- [00:19]
Alvin
Can I get you a refill?
- [00:20]
American Express Representative
You can stay fresh wherever your business travel takes you. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn more@american express.com Amex Business Ever Wanted.
- [00:31]
Plus500 Representative
To explore the world of online trading but haven't dared try? The futures market is more active now than ever and Plus500 futures is the perfect place to start. Plus500 gives you access to a wide range of instruments, S&P 500, NASDAQ, Bitcoin, gas and much more. Explore equity indices, energy, metals, forex, crypto and beyond. With a simple and intuitive platform, you can trade from anywhere, right from your phone, deposit with a minimum of a hundred dollars and experience the fast accessible futures trading you've been waiting for. See a trading opportunity. You will be able to trade it in just two clicks once your account is open. Not sure if you're ready. Not a problem. Plus500 gives you an unlimited risk free demo account with charts and analytic tools for you to practice on. With over 20 years of experience, Plus500 is your gateway to the markets. The Visit us. +500.com to learn more. Trading in futures involves the risk of loss and is not suitable for everyone. Not all applicants will qualify. Plus 500 it's trading with a plus.
- [01:38]
Alvin
Live from Kenya with Kise on her 150 acres, soon to be 300 acres of land. And in the background you see this is actually a volcano. Very rare, little known fact. So Kelis, where exactly are we at right now?
- [01:55]
Kelis
Okay, so we're in Naivasha. We're right off of Lake Naivasha and this is Mount Longanaut here. Behind this property on the other side of the mountain is the national reserve. This is all privately owned land here. And it's great. Yeah, because as you see, all the animals are free and they're running wild and we're farming and it's just, it's dope. We're building a little community out here.
- [02:18]
Eyl
Talk to us about the intent. Right, we just walked and saw the farm, saw some red onions, some yellow onions. Tell us about what's happening here and what's going to be coming.
- [02:26]
Kelis
Okay, so my plan is to do an all sustainable luxury retreat like a resort. So along with the farming, doing agriculture, but also having a wellness space so people can come and spot up and relax. We'll have a fine dining restaurant, we'll have bungalows. It's all just about being one with nature, being out here and trying to keep it as part of the ecosystem as possible and just making it all go together. So what I learned in California I'm bringing here and, and I'm learning so much. Like I was telling you, I've learned so much about farming and, and just how to keep everything sort of as natural and using all the natural resources, the animals and the, all of it. So it's been great.
- [03:04]
Alvin
So we're gonna have the detailed sit down conversation, but I thought it was important to give people a visual. So on this land, tell exactly what's on this land. You got farming, you got exotic animals, you have like what does all encompass.
- [03:19]
Kelis
Okay. So yeah, we've got farming right now we're farming onions and then we've got wildlife. So just working with all of the natural resources. We've got giraffes and zebras and elands and impalas and all kinds of stuff. Sometimes you'll see get blessed with an elephant walking through and the giraffes hanging out. So it's great because even like the lake Naivasha, I think like December, January, you'll see it covered with like flamingos and we get all kinds of owls and ostriches. It's just, it's incredible. It's literally, literally like God's country.
- [03:48]
Alvin
Alvin, what's this mean for Africa? Like to actually, for people to visually see things that they might not have an idea even exist?
- [03:55]
F
I think we should just travel more. You know, East Africa, West Africa, Central Africa. There's so much to see. I just think we should also be more educated about what's going on in the world right now. You know, like she said, we have wild animals eyo, endangered species. But I just really want black people to work together more. You know, just understand that like there's so much happening and we have to really travel and just not be afraid. You know, this was just over a year ago that we started having this conversation and everyone's out here doing research and this is going to be a beautiful project and I want people to just pay attention and you know, ask as many questions as possible, but also be, be a part of it. That's it.
- [04:36]
Eyl
Yeah, we, we're looking at a lake in front of a volcano. I mean These are rare sightings in the world, Right? So talk about the question that everybody wants to know. Why Kenya?
- [04:48]
Kelis
Oh, my goodness. Kenya is everything. Kenya has everything. It is the hub of East Africa for technology and finance and obviously agriculture. It just has everything. And it's got kind of the best of all the world. So you can be completely far away, like in rural plains like this, or you can be in Nairobi, which is a bustling city with great restaurants and shopping and things like that. So it's amazing. I think that for me, the. The takeaway is always, like, as the diaspora, like, wanting people to see that, like, it's super safe and you can invest money, you can be here, you can live here. I live here. And it's. It's just got all the things you need.
- [05:23]
Alvin
There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. That's a wrap. All right.
- [05:29]
Eyl
Yeah.
- [05:29]
Alvin
Yes, we are here. Eyl Live from Kenya, Studio Travels. Nairobi, Kenya. We got a special guest. Special episode. Impromptu. We are with the legendary Kelis.
- [05:39]
Eyl
Yeah.
- [05:40]
Kelis
Hi.
- [05:40]
Alvin
Thank you for joining us.
- [05:42]
Kelis
Thanks for having me.
- [05:42]
Eyl
We spent so much time with you over the past couple days. It only makes sense to let everybody know what's happening here. So we are very appreciative for you to be here today.
- [05:50]
Kelis
I appreciate being here. Thank you.
- [05:52]
Alvin
Yes. Yes. So, as I'm sure you've probably seen on Social and from the clip before this, that Kelis is somebody that actually moved full time from the United States of America to Kenya a year and a half ago. And that's a story within itself. But since then, you've purchased a bunch of real estate, you own a lot of land, you've become quite the mogul on this part of the world. So there's a lot to talk about from an aspect of moving. That's one conversation, but also from the real estate development, what you have going on, your future plans for your land, all that type of stuff. So, okay, let's get into it. People know you, obviously, as a singer, as a performer in the United States and. And all over the world. It's surprising that you would move to Africa. For a lot of people. What made you want to leave Hollywood and go to Nairobi?
- [06:49]
Kelis
Well, where do we start?
- [06:52]
Eyl
Where should we start?
- [06:52]
Kelis
Like, where do I even begin?
- [06:54]
Eyl
We left New York out of that whole thing. Shout out to New York.
- [06:56]
Kelis
I am a New Yorker. Yes.
- [06:57]
Eyl
Shout out to all of them. Come on, man.
- [07:00]
Kelis
I mean, well, God, where do we begin? I think I own a farm in California, so I'm a farmer.
- [07:07]
Alvin
And for me, just like, how'd you get into farming?
- [07:09]
Kelis
Well, I went to culinary school. I went to the Cordon Bleu, and I started cooking. And then for me, just wanting to be able to control ingredients and what I'm eating, and I'm a mom, and so, you know, you want your kids to eat well and kind of all that stuff. I just felt like I needed more education. So farming became that, like, freedom. Like, how do I make sure that the ingredients and the produce and all the stuff that we're using is, like, legit? Like, what it's supposed to be, right? So that's how I started, was culinary school, then farm. I fell in love with farming. It was such a great experience. And then I really felt. I felt powerful. I felt like, wow, like, I can actually, like, do this. And I only can I feed my family, but I can feed the people around me, because I would grow. I didn't have a farm the way I have now here, but, like, you know, at 54 acres in California. And I would grow, like, you know, kale and spinach, and then I would give it to all my neighbors. I would make bread and especially Covid hit. So kind of right before I bought my farm, then Covid hit, so the whole world was shut down. I was just home. So I was giving, like, veggies to my family and to friends. People were coming and picking up eggs, and I was like, yo, this is, like, real. Like, this is. You know, especially the grocery stores were empty. And I just was like. It just made me think, like, this is so powerful, right? And, like, then I just started researching and thinking about, like, what that really looked like on a commercial level, because I was really just doing it on a small scale. And every image that I saw of a farmer just looked the total opposite of what I am, right? I was like, it's just some old white guy. And I was like, how? Right? It's usually some indigenous land, someone else's. And I just felt like, that's so contrary to what it should be. And then I just, you know, kind of started thinking about, where else could I do this? Like, where else would I want to be other than California? And, you know, a few years went by, and, I don't know, I just decided, like, let's take a trip. And really, that's how it started. My sister and I, when my sister called me, and she was actually, my sister called me, and she said, I'm going to Africa. And I was like, well, I'll fund it, right? My sister's a veterinarian, so That's a great.
- [09:04]
Eyl
That's a great sister. A great sister.
- [09:06]
Kelis
Because I was like, you know, I've got three kids, I've got a farm, I have a business. At first I was just like, I could never just pick up. She's like, I'm gonna go. I don't know how long I'm going for, but I'm gonna go and just like, look for land. She was like, you know, I was reading and I wanted to follow the language of like, you know, our people and all these things. And I was like, that's so dope. I love that. It just, it seems so far fetched. Like, I can't just pick up my whole life, you know, we've talked about that, like, and just go, I've got kids at school, like all this stuff. And the more her. And I started talking about it because I was like, I'll pay for it. I was like, you know what? Why can't I go? I want to go. I was like, I'm going to pay for this whole trip. I want to go too. So then it came into like, well, now I got to bring my kids, right? Because we don't know how long we're going to be gone for. We figured a month if you first. And I was like, well, I need a nanny, because I have my nanny. Then I was like, well, I should just bring my mom. Then as my mom's gonna go crazy, I need to bring my auntie. So I brought my mom and my auntie so they could stay with the kids. And then me and my sister were gonna travel around. I was like, yo, we need to film this. So that's when, you know, Manny the cameraman came in. And then it was kind of like it became this whole. And it was just this whole thing. And ended up being what was a month. We packed for a month. My staff at home. I was like, this is a month I'll be back, you know, and then it just.
- [10:14]
Alvin
To what countries?
- [10:15]
Kelis
Yeah, we started. So I'd already been to Kenya and to Zanzibar like five years before that. So I was like, I've already been there. And Zanzibar is so pretty. I'll rent a house in Zanzibar. That way I know my kids will be happy. They'll be at the beach. My mom and my auntie will be fine. Post them up there. And then that way I can start to travel. So that's where we started. So they spent like the first. My family spent like the first month really in Zanzibar. And Then as I started traveling around, it was just. I was like, I need to bring them too. I was like. And then we got to Kenya. I was like, kenny's got something. I was like. So then I brought. After a month, like month and a half, I brought them here to Ken. And then I kept traveling around. So that's really. And then the next thing you know, it was like six months later, and I was like, well, I'm here. I need a place. Like, I was spending all this money, you know, renting stuff, and I was like, this is dumb. So that's how it really just like I ended up here. It was never like the grand plan. It just sort of like, so.
- [11:04]
Eyl
So you saw something in Kenya, you're in Nairobi, and when does the convincing happen for everybody? Like, hey, this is going to be more than a six month thing. And then the next piece is, all right, I was doing this in California. I potentially can do it here. How did that process work?
- [11:23]
Kelis
Well, initially we came out here, I was looking for land. Not really just knowing what for, even or just was like, let me get an idea, right? Ever since I bought the land in California, it changed my life. And I was like, I love this. Everywhere I go now, I need to be standing on land that belongs to me, right? So really it was like, where can I. Where does it make the most sense? Just thinking about, like, laws and what the culture of the country is, what the religion is, kind of all these things, right? Like, where could I really, really be where it's not so different, but yet where I'm getting all the benefits of being on the continent. Kenya ended up being. As I started traveling, even though Kenya was like the second place that I came, second or third country that we came to, every property I saw after that, I kept comparing to Kenya, like, well, they don't have this. And the kids were really like, you know, they're not going to have that and how am I going to, you know, kind of all these things and everything just kept coming back to Kenya. So Kenya really was like before I even knew that I was going to get the land here. It was like every country, like this place had everything, right? It had all the things that I felt like I needed to live like a normal life that I'm used to living, normal being what I'm normal, my normal, right? And it was. It just kept coming back to Kenya. Then it was like, okay, well, damn, now I need a lawyer. Now I got to figure out, how do I not get like, you know, taken or how Do I make sure that I'm doing service to the land that I'm buying and kind of all those things? Because I really, like I said, I came out here with no friends. I had nothing other than the people I brought with me. And I didn't really know, like, what.
- [12:49]
Alvin
Was allowed even, you know, so that's a big thing. Like, you know, And a lot of people have horror stories. They buy land from somebody that already owns land, or they might have got swindles or. All right, so you decide that you have a cultural connection. You like the vibes, it's modern. So you decide, okay, Kenya is the place I'm gonna stay. But then, like you said, now you have to actually invest and buy property and then figure out, like, you know, how you're actually gonna live. How'd you do that? Did you have, like, an advisor? Did you hire somebody to walk you through how to do this or.
- [13:18]
Kelis
So before I came out here, really just, like, so willy nail, like, I just started calling, like, googling, like, looking at real estate people, right? And just sort of whoever was the most responsive and seemed the most, like, you know, made the most sense just talking to them. I was like, okay, well, let me do that. And so actually, the real estate person that we found out here was like, hey, you should talk to this lawyer. And I was like, yes, yes, I should. That sounds great. Right? And so I met this lawyer, and he actually had a property that he wanted to sell. And so I started talking to him and everything. He was just. Especially here in Kenya, he was so, like, monumental and really making sure that, like, I didn't get taken. He kind of showed me the ropes of how, like, what not to sign for, what not to buy, what areas were just not good and, you know, kind of all that. And so that was really. I got blessed from the beginning, kind of finding someone that was straight up and honest. Come to find out, he's a super reputable lawyer, and, like, this is great. So now he's my lawyer in Kenya. But, like, I didn't. It was just from a recommendation of someone being like, hey, you know, if you're really going to do this, you should have a lawyer. And I was like, yeah, I should.
- [14:23]
Eyl
How was the adaptation to being in Kenya? Obviously, you get the place. For you, it's one thing, but like you said, you're a mom. Mom's here, sister's here, cousin's here. How was the adaptation as a family in that first year or so?
- [14:37]
Kelis
I think my oldest son was probably the hardest. I Think just. Cause, you know, he's 15 and he was just like, what is happening here? I think that was the initial thing, but I think everybody, everybody understood the mission. And I'm very like, you know, like I said, for me it was about how can we really live. So it wasn't like we were like, we came and it was so foreign to you know what I'm saying? Like, it was like we were in a great apartment and it was like we were going and doing the normal. So no one was like. It wasn't such a bad culture shock at first where everybody was like, what is happening? This is so different. I think it was more so just when people started realizing that we're staying. My oldest son was like, wait, hold on. You know. Now it's funny though, because he gets it and he's like, this is amazing. Like, I love it here. And he's got friends and, you know, he's on the National Kenya swimming team. Like, all these things. Like, so we've made a place for ourselves here. But I think it's really just. You gotta put your best foot forward, right? You just have to like, just sort of do it. And I think everything I do, I do like that even the farm in California was the same thing. We came from literally like LA to like this dust ball of a farm that we had to make into something, you know, Like, I always have these panic moments like, oh my God, what have I done? This might not be a great idea, but it works out. It always works out.
- [15:47]
Alvin
So as far as you have 150 acres in Kenya, right, What is the process of buying? And you about to get another 150.
- [15:53]
Kelis
Yeah.
- [15:54]
Alvin
So 300.
- [15:55]
Eyl
Congrats.
- [15:56]
Alvin
Congratulations. What's the process of buying land in Kenya? Is it similar to like United States of America?
- [16:01]
Kelis
It is. The only thing that I would say was really different that I had to fight with my American business manager and lawyer about, because they were like, absolutely not. Was you send the money. So, okay, so obviously, you know, when you buy land in the States.
- [16:13]
Alvin
Title search.
- [16:14]
Kelis
Exactly. And then you put the money in escrow and you wait to make sure everything. You know, all of that. Whereas here, yes, they have to be able to clear title. But all of that happens while your money is in an account for the lawyer, which was completely foreign to me. That was definitely like my business manager in States was like, absolutely not.
- [16:30]
Alvin
Total the total amount you put in you.
- [16:32]
Kelis
No, it's a deposit of like 20%. But it's like there's. It's a Lawyer's account. Right. So there's no guarantee that like it's.
- [16:39]
Alvin
Like John Smith, Esquire.
- [16:40]
Kelis
You're like, it's not like it's not an escrow account. Yeah, no, Chase Bank.
- [16:43]
Alvin
It's just like this personal with his name on it. Good luck. Good luck.
- [16:48]
Eyl
Okay, got it.
- [16:49]
Kelis
That was definitely something that was new and that was like, like nerve wracking. I think the other thing was the best way for Kenya specifically is to set up your business first, right? So that's what I had to do before I could do anything. So all these like kind of getting through all this stuff before I could even purchase the land. But he walked me through all of it. So now it's like, okay, now it makes all sense. And now I've been able to buy more land and it's easy.
- [17:11]
Alvin
What are those steps?
- [17:12]
Kelis
Okay, so first you come, you have to set up something called a kr. It's a kra. And so that's like your pin number, right?
- [17:19]
Alvin
So that's ein number.
- [17:20]
Kelis
Yeah. And so basically it says you can pay taxes, right? So that costs like a thousand dollars. So you have to do that. Then you have to, you have to set up your business, right? And then you need to carry for yourself and then for your business because you need to get a working permit before you can actually buy the land, right? And that's if it's not going to be a land lease, right? So I was able to buy the land in my business name. So once you do that, that costs, I can't remember, a few thousand dollars to do that. And then you can, I would suggest getting someone to help you expedite the work permit just because if not, you could be behind a million people. But you can basically pay an expediter, someone to help you, which we also have for permits and stuff in the states that will help you get your work permit quicker. And then once you get that, then you can actually that's when you send the money to the lawyer and then they'll hold it. And that's when the property owner that you're buying from is then going to check and see, like make sure they're going to give all the documentation, making sure that the titles and the actual name that they're saying it's in and kind of all that stuff and that it can actually be sold and so on and so forth. All in all, it took, I guess, to buy the first plot. It was probably about six, seven months, I think, to get everything like where it was like, here's your actual title.
- [18:35]
Alvin
You know, just one follow up. I know. Because this question people's gonna have, is it a mortgage system out here or is it just mostly all cash?
- [18:44]
Kelis
So I've been told that you can get a mortgage. The interest rates are atrocious.
- [18:49]
Alvin
We heard today, like, well, not that bad. Not too bad other places.
- [18:53]
Eyl
Yeah. Compared to some other countries. Pretty bad that we heard. I don't, I mean, could be wrong.
- [18:57]
Kelis
Well, I was like, this is not, this is terrible. I felt like this is awful. I mean, so you can do it. It just feels to me, I just was. I'd rather get something smaller and know that I can just pay for it rather than, you know, it just. The interest rates were crazy. And then also too, because you're, you're establishing. It's not as easy when you're a foreigner. Right. Because even here in Kenya, like, even though I'm now a resident and I have my work permit so I can do business and do all these things, I'm not, I'm not a citizen. So it takes seven years to get your citizenship. So it's just more complicated. Like even with a loan and all that price, just like. But you do have to open up a bank account. I forgot to say that you have to open up a bank account here and you have to transfer. I forgot. This is annoying. So you do. You have to transfer. I've actually forgot about this. You have to put, there's a number that they, you have to put in a certain amount of number, amount of money in the bank and that's when they'll actually see if they can clear. Because that's the thing, right. So if you're coming here as an investor, they want to make sure that you're actually investing. So you have to put money in a Kenyan bank account and then they hold it before any of the paperwork is done, before anything is done. So you're kind of just. It's money you can't touch. You're just waiting. It's like 100 grand, probably 100 grand in the bank just to let it sit there. Right.
- [20:06]
Alvin
So they want to know you're legit.
- [20:07]
Kelis
Yes, you're really here to invest. And then it's also like, then even once you do it, you have to give them a plan of like, what you're going to do and kind of like how many people are you going to employ? And like, they want to make sure you know things like that.
- [20:18]
Eyl
It feels like the process of being accredited investor in the States.
- [20:21]
Kelis
Yeah, yeah.
- [20:21]
Eyl
So in terms of pricing, because I know that's something that people want to inquire about. You had the advantage of having farming in California or having a farm coming to Kenya. Looking at the pricing, how was it comparable for acreage? I know you got 150, which is a lot, and we got the privilege of seeing it. How was pricing and how did you navigate that? Understanding what would be a good buy.
- [20:41]
Kelis
Wouldn'T be okay, so very different than the states. There's not like a comp. Like, it's not like you're doing comps. Like, they could care less. Like, you could be like, hut here, $30 million here. No. And they're looking at you like, what's your problem? Right? They don't care at all. So it's not like we're. You know, I could say this doesn't make sense for, like, for this area or whatever. It doesn't really work like that here. The value of land here is it's just based on whatever the owner feels like it's worth, right? Because even, like, I looked at this, like, beautiful tea farm, and I was telling you, and they were like, we've got great price for you. Great price. And it was like $30 million. And I was like, shillings, or I think you mean USD. And they're like, no, lady, USD. And I was like, yo, that's crazy, right? And then like, no, no, we'll give you a family price. 18 million. And I was like, not enough. Like, you need to go way down. And I think, like. And it was a tea farm. So I'm asking. I was like, okay, well, how much are you actually. Fine. You're producing tea. I get it. Okay, so how much? What's your revenue a year? And it just did not. It didn't add up at all, like, at all. But for them, it's like, a lot of times it's heritage land, which I totally respect. I get that. Right. And if they don't have to sell, then there's no motivation. You know what I mean? It's not like. I think it's just a different system here, right? So you just have to adjust to that. So there are deals. 1,000%. You can absolutely find land that is comparable, I would say, some parts of California. And, like, I keep comparing it to, like, Texas. Right? Like, you can get great land.
- [22:09]
Alvin
I heard. I heard like, 10,000 an acre on that. Is that.
- [22:12]
Kelis
Yeah, that's like, a good. Yeah. And then sometimes, though, like, there might be land that's like 10,000 a plot, but it'll be because it's like, they really value the road, right? So, like, it'll be like things that we don't really think about, but, like, if it's close, they'll tell you how close it is to the main road. And the closer it is to the main road, the higher the price will be. So I've seen plots that are like, say, you could go anywhere from like, 300 square meters, which is like, I guess the size you would, like, build a house, right? And they'll be like, it's $10,000 for that plot, which you're like, wait, I just could buy an acre for. They're like, yeah, but not here. They're like, where's the road location? Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
- [22:49]
Eyl
Yeah. One of the things that a lot of people, especially where we're from, are ignorant to, is how profitable farming can be, right? You said, we went to a tea farm, we got to see your farm, and we broke down the onion thing. Talk about that and why people should really be looking at this as a business opportunity.
- [23:03]
Kelis
Oh, man. I mean, like, when you think about. I knew it had to be profitable because you see it and you're like, these guys are doing it because it's making money. But I couldn't really wrap my brain around it. But my lawyer, again, who's been super helpful, he's a farmer, and he was like, I make way more money farming. It's like, this is sure fire. So he started to break it down for me when I started to understand, okay, it's like, this is something that. Especially here, because I think, yeah, really, I think here, like, there's so much agriculture, like, opportunities here, and I feel like the younger people are not doing it as much that they need it, right? And so, like, for example, the reason I decided to do onions is because a lot of, you know, they were getting, like, a year ago, they were getting a lot of the onions from Tanzania, and then recently they kind of banned the onions from Tanzania. So it's like, they need onion farmers here. I was like, I can do that, right? So things like that. But for example, like, you know, after your cost, right, if you. If you put in five acres of onions, right? And with everything. So you've got your. With the exception of the borehole, which will make your money back within the year, but say, like, just all of your drip lines and all of that stuff, right? For five acres, if you. Once you spend all that, which, like, say $11,000, you can make between, let's say 30 conservatively to like, $35,000 within, let's say a quarter, right? So at minimum, you have two harvests a year for only five acres. That's a good. You can live on that, right? It's a good living. And then say you add another five acres, like, so it's. It is actually extremely profitable. They're looking for farmers. They want people to farm. It's such a good opportunity, especially Kenya. Kenya has so much flatland, you know, and it's great soil. This is Africa. It's like you throw a seed in the ground and stuff just grows. You know what I mean? Like, literally, like, it's amazing. It doesn't take as much as we've ruined our soil in the States, you know? And it took me so much to. I mean, even thinking about that. Like, when I think about my farm in California, it took me a year before I could plant anything because the soil was so depleted and it was just so ruined. Like, I had to go through this whole process of, like, fixing the soil just so I could grow stuff. Whereas here, it's like. I mean, I could put anything in the ground or like, oh, look, it's a tree. You should see my backyard right now. I live in an apartment. My backyard is like a jungle. I have. I didn't. I've been here a year, right? So I have banana trees that are, like, literally like 25ft tall. And like, I. I had to cover them to keep the monkeys from taking all the fruit. I mean, it's amazing, you know, so it's just to show the difference, like.
- [25:30]
Alvin
So I was gonna ask you, what is the process of actually setting? Because buying land is one thing, but having an operational farm is another thing. You gotta, like, have an irrigation system. You gotta. You know, I'm assuming you got to plant the seeds. You got to have people that's working it. You got to have pesticide control, perhaps you got to put the fence. Like, I think people don't understand how complex farming. They look at farming as something that's like. Especially people from cities, right? As something that's like, backwards, right? Or something that. But it's like a step back. People don't associate technology with farming, but. Oh, that's like the first form of tech.
- [26:01]
Kelis
Absolutely.
- [26:02]
Alvin
Is farming, right?
- [26:02]
Kelis
Absolutely. And like I said, it's also real money. Really. It's real money. And it's also, like, when you think about, like, food safety and just like, no matter what's happening in the world, if you're farming, you've got this. I mean, honestly, like, the only thing that's your enemy. Could be the weather, right? But even that, there's. There's safeties that you can, you know, take to get around that. I mean, I think, like, for me, like, buying all this stuff, one thing I have to say is that, like, especially in the farming areas, people are. People want to work. So it wasn't even hard. Like, I got an agronomist and these are people with like full on, like, degrees in agronomy and like farming stuff that I was just kind of like fumbling through it. Like, they really know what to do, you know. And so I ended up. I ended up finding someone. It was very. Again, it's just random, like, because Naivasha specifically is a farm area. So, like my car broke down and I was talking to the mechanic and then he was like, well, this is a good, this guy's a good agriculture. Like, he's a horticulturist, actually. And I was like, okay, cool. And then I talked to him and he was like. I was like, well, who can I have helped me, like, really do this? He's like, oh, I know a guy. And then I just like, whatsapped him. And he was like, I'll be there on Sunday. I was like, great. But it's also like, you have to talk to people. You have to. Like, some people are not going to be as good. You know, you just got to kind of get out there. You can't be afraid to speak to people and kind of figure it out. It is something you have to learn, right? Like, I'm still learning, but it's totally doable. One thing I will say to you, different here than anywhere else, people are so willing to help. They're so willing.
- [27:28]
Eyl
I was going to go there.
- [27:29]
Kelis
I mean, they really are. There's like, no dumb questions because I asked tons of questions. And they're just so willing to help and they don't want you to mess up. You know what I mean? They're like, no, no, no, that's terrible. Don't do that. You know? And you're like, oh, okay.
- [27:41]
Eyl
I was going there because as you were talking and we spent a few days together, I'm thinking, like, you're really knowledgeable in this. So there's been an education process, but even when we are with our drivers, they're knowledgeable about everything. How has the impact of the locals had on the process of you saying, all right, I've got this acreage, I want to add more. They gave me some ideas. I'm going to add this. Wait, how do I power this? This might be a new idea. How much is the impact had on you?
- [28:05]
Kelis
So much. I mean, when you think about even moving to a place where it's like, the people, that's one of the first things that I fell in love with here was the people. And, like, these people are loving and care, and they care. And it's just from the top to the bottom, like, you could be in the mall, bump someone. And just how that interaction goes, you know, to really needing someone to be like, I need help. I don't know how to do this. Help me. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's just so. It's so different culturally. I think from that perspective, it's, like, welcoming, right? It's warm. And I think, too, like, what I really appreciate, what's made this so feasible, is that there is a process. Even if it takes a long time, it's the same. They'll be like, no, this is what you have to do. You got to do this. And so when everyone keeps giving you the same answer, you're like, okay, you know, you're not being taken for a ride. It's like, this is how you have to do it. And so then it becomes like, all right, well, this is the way to do it. This is how we do it. And like, I said, what? You don't know, people will help. And even, you know, I'll talk to random people. They're like, did you plant this? And are you putting this around it? And, oh, no, no, no, sister, you gotta put baking soda. And I was like, I did hear that. And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, put baking soda if you don't want those. But, you know, little things like that, and you're just like, oh, okay. But they're always willing to help. So it makes something that could feel really daunting and new. It makes it easier because it's not like it doesn't feel like crabs in a barrel, where everyone's just like, you know, fighting to win. It's like they're like, we're farm. We farm. It happens. You drive. You can't drive up a road in Kenya and not see some sort of someone selling some fruit or vegetables or something, right? Like, there's so many things. People are just. They're farmers. And so it's great. Like, you learn a lot just by regular conversations.
- [29:31]
Alvin
I feel like, so what's the hardest part of farming, Right? Even from you learning in America to now having a farm and can. Like, what is the hardest Dealing with droughts, keeping animals off your farm. Like, what's the hardest part that you had to figure out?
- [29:45]
Kelis
I think I keep saying that, like, my farm in California was like my, like, training ground for this, right? Because it was smaller and I had major pests there, too. So, like, it's just figuring out, like, okay, what am I dealing with here? I think water has been a challenge.
- [30:01]
Alvin
Like the rain or irrigation.
- [30:03]
Kelis
No, rain is great. It rains so much here. I think getting, like, the borehole system, like, that system is.
- [30:08]
Alvin
So what is that?
- [30:09]
Kelis
So a borehole is like a well, right? So it's. It's basically they're digging into the ground and, well, first you have to get, like, a water analysis to see if there actually is water there, right? So you'll pay someone to come. Then you need a geologist to check and make sure, like, see what the rock situation is. And a lot of people will say, oh, you don't need that. I did it because I just was like, I need to know what's happening. It is an extra cost, obviously, but you need to check if there's water there. And then you need to have someone come. And what I learned was someone will tell you, like, they can do it for cheaper, but you don't really necessarily want that because then your borehole is going to break down. And so essentially they're. They come, they check the water, and then they have to dig down between 200 to 300 meters. And then they put the casing in there, and then you've got this pump that's going to bring the water up.
- [30:53]
Alvin
It's like a well.
- [30:54]
Kelis
It's like a well. Yeah. It's like a smaller well, essentially, and it pumps up.
- [30:58]
Alvin
But what is the purpose of that? To keep the crops.
- [31:01]
Kelis
Well, to irrigate. And also because if. Even if you're going to build a house there, you need water, right? Because a lot of the land that you're going to buy is rural, right? So there's been nothing there before. So you need to make sure, because a lot of land, like, there was. I was about to sign papers on this other land, and. And then I. And the guy was like, you should just check. And that's when I was like, I wasn't going to do the geology, but the guy was like, you should just do it. I was like, okay, I'm just going to keep doing it for all the land. I ended up doing it. And he's like, there are these massive boulders up to 7 meters down. So my farming would have been a.
- [31:28]
Alvin
Wash how much water is under it. Like, does it.
- [31:30]
Kelis
It just depends, right? So, like, for me, right now, the board, that first borehole that we saw that we just dug pulls up, it's like 10.4 cubic feet of water, whatever, every day, right? So that's. So then that's how we did the math. So then I know they said that that amount of water, if you're continually getting that can cover up to maybe 10 acres. Me wanting to be on the safe side, I decided to do five. Right. And then I'll put another borehole. So I know that no matter what, we'll have water, but that's also solar. So then you have to figure out if you're going to get a generator or if you're going to hook into Kenya power, which is also an option.
- [32:03]
Eyl
Yeah. One of the things we kind of, like, breezed over was the animals. And, you know, we grow up in farms, it's like, hey, hopefully these groundhogs don't eat this or the birds don't eat it. You have a whole different set of animals. Hyenas, giraffes, zebras. How is that navigating that and making sure that they're protected because it was their land, Right?
- [32:21]
Kelis
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think the thing that I've learned so much about being here, too, and it's funny, actually, even being in California, is that there is a way, and people have been doing it for millennia, right? There's a way to farm and not completely, like, ruin the ecosystem, but become a part of it. Right? And so, like, I keep using this reference. I just think it's such a good thing for farmers. Like, there was a movie called Biggest Little Farm, and it just showed me so much, right? Like, and it was basically this LA couple, and they decided to go and get this farm up in Northern California and, like, all the stuff that they combated. And I watched that movie right before I bought my farm in California, right? And then I get to my farm in California, and I'm fighting rabbits and gophers, and they're annihilating me. Like, they're taking me out. It was so bad, right? So then I had to figure that out. So I came out here and, yeah, there's a whole different thing of animals. But the funny thing is we were out there camping, and I just. I saw these massive rabbits, and I was like, oh, my God, not rabbits. There's, like, my arch nemesis.
- [33:12]
Eyl
They're following you. They found you.
- [33:14]
Kelis
And my kids are like, mom, you literally sound like the guy from Peter Rabbit. Cause I'm like, get the rabbits. You know, but it's. You figure it out. And it's the same kind of like, you know, I put up the fence more so. So that. Because, you know, a lot of times you find that, like, if you don't have a fence. Yeah. It seems like, oh, this is all wonderful and nice, but, like, you're putting. Good. This is real money we're investing here. Right. Like, I've invested real money in this farming. And as much as I love the elephants and I want to make a space for them, I also need a space, too. Right. So I can't have them trampling through my farm. Right. And so we make a space for them right here. Right. It's like, you can go around it. It's like, you know, and I think that's. That's kind of the reality of it. It's like you can do it in a way where it's benefiting the area. And so I'm actually organic farming, so not using pesticides and using all natural ways for pest control and all things like that. So that it continues to keep the water supply good. We're going to put a watering hole so that we have that. So the animal. Because there is no water in that area, so the animals actually can come and drink water there. So even though I've got this fence up where I don't want them to trample my crops, we're planting trees and all kinds of flower and fauna where they actually. Which will benefit the area and benefit them and the weather and everything there. Right. So it's. You got to know where you're at, and it takes a little time to kind of figure out what you're combating. And then, yeah, you got to put your money where your mouth is and you got to make it work. Right. And that's what I'm doing.
- [34:30]
Alvin
So you spoke to me about, like, how you didn't feel comfortable, like, putting your money anywhere where it wasn't like a black country. Right. Like, talk about that. Like, just that mindset of, like, why am I continuously investing in Western society when I can help build Africa?
- [34:46]
Kelis
I mean, it's really simple, right? Like, I'm American. I'm proud of that. It is what it is. Right. I never take that from anybody. That's who we are. It's at the stage right now where it's like, if I'm continually investing in a place that doesn't make space for me, it just doesn't to me, like, it's not good Business, it's just not right. Even if I still live there, if I'm gonna put my hard earned money somewhere, I want to put it someplace where I can actually see it grow and I can actually see a benefit, right? Like, I can do things here on the continent that I can't do in the States, right? And even like when I think about money going longer, right? And like, I can actually make a real impact here with just being here, right? And my time, my money, my energy. I think about my education, my worldliness, the things that I've learned anywhere where I go. I like to think that if. If I'm not benefiting, I shouldn't be there, right? And so I genuinely feel that way. And being here, I'm like, I want to be of use, you know what I mean? Like, I want to be. It's not about charity. It's about, like being part of a culture and part of a community, you know what I'm saying? Like, nobody wants charity. It's about like, yo, I'm here. How can I be of use? Like, put me to work. Like, what can I do? You know what I'm saying? So whether it's farming or just showing people that I'm here and that you can invest and make businesses, I'm building a resort on my property. Like, that, to me, is what makes the most sense. I look at my kids, I've got these beautiful black kids, and I put so much energy and time and money and schooling into them, and then I'm going to give them to a nation just like on. It just makes no sense to me, you know what I'm saying? That's my most valuable possession are these kids. And then I'm going to just be like, okay, hope you make it. Like, do you know what I mean? Just like, why, you know? And then I have to worry about them getting shot or getting arrested or them not. It's just like. And not that things don't happen everywhere, because they do. And that's, you know, we're being realistic. But if we can just take that out of the equation, that when I walk into a place, they're not immediately hating my bloodline and my lineage and everything that I come from, everything that I stand for, like, that's worth its weight in gold to me, you know what I'm saying? Like, I want to, I think in this era right now, forget the racial thing, just, you think about, just like, financially, what's the smartest move? It's the continent, without a doubt. Like, first of all, it looks like I use Kenya as an example, right? Because I was living in California. When you look at, like, the frontier, right? When people were, like, migrating from the east coast to the west coast for the gold rush and for mining and stuff, right? That's what Kenya is like right now. This place is so. It's prepared, the foundation has been laid. It's ready to rock. Like, it can be a really. It's already an amazing nation. But with. If we took the diaspora, if we put our money in nations like this, it's unstoppable. Why are we putting all our education and all of our time and all of our energy and all of our money into a place that doesn't have anything for us? You know what I'm saying? Like, for me to get, I have to fight for a loan in the States. Why? I make enough money. Like, it's dumb, you know? I mean, I'm like, look how much money I make. And they're like, well, you need blood. I'm like, this is crazy. I'm like, this is dumb. You know what I'm saying? I've been making money for 25 years. Like, real money. Why am I fighting for or chump change in dumb industries? It just makes no sense to me. I'd rather take the cash that I have and build it where I know I can actually grow it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I can make real money here. And we talk about real legacy, right? Whether it's politics or business or whatever it is, like, these nations are ready. And a lot of times when you look at a place like Kenya where, like, it was colonized, right? And so, like, when the white colonization, when that hand gets lifted, they're kind of just left, right? And everyone's fending for themselves. And I'm like, we've been in the same position, you know what I'm saying? But, like, come here. It's the same. It's kind of like the same poison. Different result almost, you know? But it's like, come out here. Put your money here. Even if you don't want to live here, put your money here. Instead of investing in things that there's a cap, there's a cap on our ceiling, and everyone's acting like it's not there, and it is, and America's a little bit better than, say, Europe or whatever, but, like, this is the future. Africa's our history, and it's our future. So to me, it's like, it makes the most sense to come and put our energy, our intellect, Our education, our time here.
- [38:35]
Eyl
Yeah, it was part of the conversation we were having yesterday. It was like, I'm so happy that you're doing it so that people can see it, and I'm glad that we're being able to document it. You kind of alluded to it a little bit just before about your future plans for the land. Yes, it's farming, but it's so much more. Talk about the resort, talk about the architecture, the design, the purpose of it, where you're going with it.
- [38:55]
Kelis
So I'm so excited about it. I was looking for. Well, first of all, I've been on tour for the past 25 years, right? So I've been in every hotel, every five star resort spa, like, you name it, I've been up in it, right? And I was just like, anyone knows a hotel? I know a hotel, I know a resort, I know a retreat. I know what I love. I know what luxury looks like. And when I came out here and I was like, yo, this place is paradise. Like, it's so beautiful. And I found my land. I was like, I want to do a wellness retreat. Like, I want to do like a place where it's just black and luxurious and fabulous. And for me, like, I was looking at like, you know, the amount of hotels that are black owned, like at the level that I'm talking about, and just around the world and there's not that many. It's like a handful of. And I feel like the reason I was traveling around East Africa and I kept traveling, I've been acquiring land throughout East Africa because I want to be like a hotel group of just luxury, a black brand of just fabulousness. And like, so that's why we've got Rhonda and, you know, Tanzania and Kenya. And I feel like the dashboard needs a place to go, right? Like, it's one thing to like, you know, call to action, but like, where do we stay while we're acting? You know what I'm saying? Like, where are we eating, what are we doing? Like, you know, where are we decompressing and kind of all that stuff. And so on a small scale, I want to start there. Like, that's the plan is to do this, like, wellness retreat of like, food is medicine. I'm a chef by trade and a farmer now. And so, yeah, wanting to be able to make food. That's like, we don't talk about it enough in our culture, right? You look at like black Americans and we've got, it's like the highest rate of diabetes. Our women Are. It's just like all these issues, right? Which doesn't really make any sense. We're like, why is this happening? You know, like, we all live in the same country. What's going on here? And we don't talk about wellness and health as black people enough. Right? And so I went to Cornell and I got my. After I went to the Cornell, I went and I got my herbalists and ethnobotany certification. So I'm official. So that way I can start to talk about, like, our health and wellness. So it's one thing to have money, but how are we going to live long with our money, right? So it's like, that's all part of it, right? Like, I want to live well. And it's about a sustainable level of, like, lifestyle, right? Like, what does that really look like? And so that's what the whole, like, that's what the retreat is about. Like, come, eat good, eat purposefully, relax. Look at the giraffes. Take your shoes off.
- [41:10]
Eyl
You want to tell them about the, the geothermal technology that potentially could be something that changes the game.
- [41:16]
Kelis
Absolutely. One of the things that's really dope about Kenya also is the fact that they are so aware and so ahead of the game as far as, like, sustainable and clean energy. And so a lot of, mostly even my apartment building is all solar generated and it's this big apartment building. But where the property is, it's right at the base of Mount Longanaut, which is where the geothermal, like they have a whole geothermal plant. And so the next step is to see if we can power the entire property with geothermal energy, which is just clean and sustainable and. Yeah.
- [41:47]
Alvin
So. And then was also you had mentioned as far as the farmland, right, you're going to open up opportunities for people to invest.
- [41:53]
Kelis
Absolutely. So since I've been out here, I get so many messages about people like, hey, how do I do this? And, like, it can be overwhelming, right? Like, it's a lot. And so I thought about, I really, when I started doing the numbers and I was like, oh, okay, Well, I only need. If I were to say, I broke up five acres. And I've got, obviously I have all this land, right? I've got five acres where we can start. I only need for 10 acres. I need 130 people, right? So if I have 130 people that would want to invest and I can farm it for them, right? Because my girlfriend called me and she's like, well, if I buy the land, girl, will you farm it for me. And I was like, okay, I had to think. I was like, well, I was like, let me get back to you. Let me figure out what that would really take and what it would really cost. And like, could I really do it before I say yes? And I did the numbers and I was like, oh, actually I could totally do this. And this is. And if I do it this way, I can do it. So it's a really small investment for people. So say, you know, if you do it right now for, like I said, If I have 10 acres and I do it at, it would be like $1300 per person. I need 130 people for the year. By the end of that year, they would be farming. And then after that year they start making money. So then it's also because you have. I'll hire more people. So you'll be hiring more people. You'd be paying people here in Kenya to farm for you. Right. And then you're actually being part of the community even if you're not ready to come out here yourself. But it's actually financially feasible. I'm trying to make it so you can actually.
- [43:11]
Alvin
It's like a co op.
- [43:12]
Kelis
It's like a co op. Yeah, it's called We Farm.
- [43:14]
Alvin
So you pay $1300. The first year is just like a setup fee.
- [43:17]
Kelis
Yeah.
- [43:17]
Alvin
And then year two, you start to see some money.
- [43:19]
Kelis
You'll start to see you got to.
- [43:20]
Alvin
Pay 1300 every year.
- [43:21]
Kelis
No. So you won't have to give money again. And even so, the water and the salaries and things like that will come off the top of your dividends. But you won't have to give me any more money.
- [43:31]
Alvin
One time payment. 1300 time payment.
- [43:33]
Kelis
Unless you want to do a larger plot. So it'll be. It's like 300 square meters, which, like I said, is like the size of a house. Like if you were building a house.
- [43:40]
Eyl
One of the things we deal with obviously in America is taxes and property tax. How does that work, having a farm in. In Kenya and throughout East Africa?
- [43:49]
Kelis
So every country is different. Obviously the taxes here are a little less than the state. So they're like, you know, it was like 20, something like that. But I mean, yeah, it's like, it's like anything else. You got to pay taxes. Right. You do it, but it's, you know, it's doable and it's all legit and you can see it. And that's how you get your carry, you know, your pin number and you just kind of start to do business like That I think the other thing is when you start hiring people here, like, there are cuts and things like that because they want you to hire locals. And so that's been a big incentive just to.
- [44:18]
Eyl
Yeah, you know, I'm thinking in terms of benefits, Right. Everything you're doing here is clean. Obviously there. When we have clean energy or we get an ev, there's rebates and there's discounts for doing that.
- [44:27]
Kelis
Similar, similar. Even when I was talking to. To a friend earlier about it, really just talking about, like, even if you plant trees, right? So you get like carbon credits. And so, like, every little thing counts, right? So things like that. So with a property my size, like, we're going to be planting tons of trees, right. So you can. You let them know what you've planted, then you get carbon credits towards what you know, which is just another tax break, which is great. So things like that do exist. And it's just about getting in there and figuring out, like, okay, well, how many people am I hiring? What is it going to cost me? How many dependents do I have, you know, versus, like Americans that are coming in here and working with its family or whatever kind of all those. You break that down. But it's doable and it's. I personally, it's easier than the States to be from that perspective, for sure.
- [45:08]
Alvin
Do you have to pay tax in America, too?
- [45:10]
Kelis
For money I make in America, yeah.
- [45:11]
Alvin
Not for money you make here, no. So from an aspect of people that's looking to move to Africa, any country, there's a few things. Right, let's. Let's go through it. Schooling. Yeah, that's a big thing. You have three children that are young, right? One teenager and then two younger children. Talk about your experience with bringing children out here and interrupting their schooling, interrupting their social circle that they already had, enrolling them into a new social construct and school.
- [45:45]
Kelis
Okay, well, I may not be the best person for the conversation. I'm not big on the system to begin with. Right. So school system, I am not. I just never felt like it served us. And so for me, I was always. It was always adverse for me. My kids have been on tour with me since they were born, so my system has been a little bit different. What I will say, though, in Nairobi specifically, there are great schools. Like, there are great schools. And I know this really just because my neighborhood, like, where my kid, where we live, my kids who I set free every day, and they just go and run wild with all their little friends. They all go to schools in the neighborhood. And they're just bright and smart kids, and they're all. It's like. It feels like America in the sense where, like, no one's behind. They're actually.
- [46:28]
Alvin
Your kids are homeschool.
- [46:29]
Kelis
My kids are homeschooled.
- [46:30]
Alvin
But that's a conversation, too, because a lot of people in America want to start the homeschooling process. They similar to that, but so that's interesting, because you took. One of your children is getting homeschooled by artificial intelligence.
- [46:41]
Kelis
Yeah.
- [46:41]
Alvin
How's that working out?
- [46:42]
Kelis
Well, I was skeptical at first, but my older kid was in such a good program, and it didn't start at the age that my son is at, So I needed to find something that I thought was comparable. And it's amazing, honestly. What's great about it is that the AI system, it's a new system. It's called Fusion Academy, but basically it's a new system, and it adjusts to. According to what he's learning and what stage he's at. So it's never just, like, brushing past something and be like, okay, we gotta get to the next stage. It's not rushing him into anything. So if he's excelling in writing or reading, he could be in fifth grade, even though he should be at a third or fourth grade level. Right. So it's not holding him back. It's accredited, and then it makes it so that we can travel and I can move and I can. They can see the world. And to me, it's been the most amazing education. My kids have been. Their passports are crazy, right? Like, their passports will rival anybody. They've been all over the world. I can dip out to Thailand. I can go to, you know, like, South Africa. I can go to Egypt. Like, we can do whatever we want, and it doesn't ever interrupt their schooling.
- [47:40]
Alvin
To me, homeschooling is two hours a day.
- [47:42]
Kelis
The best. Two hours a day. Which really, if you look at real school, like, the kids are in school doing nonsense for most of the day. It's like recess and playing. And it's like, what is happening here?
- [47:52]
Eyl
I was a teacher for 14 years.
- [47:54]
Kelis
Right. A lot of time is wasted, though.
- [47:57]
Eyl
A lot of time is wasted.
- [47:58]
Kelis
Yeah, it's true.
- [47:59]
Eyl
It's true. Education is important. I'm glad you spoke about homeschooling. The other thing that's important when people want to move is health care. And I think people really don't understand how powerful Kenya is and the role that they play, especially on the continent, in health care. Give some information about the Level of excellence that is provided here.
- [48:18]
Kelis
Okay, I'm so glad you brought that up actually, because I didn't really understand it. And we have such a negative connotation to the content. We were like, so. We've been so fear mongered, right? So just to put it in perspective, okay, so again, my lawyer who's out here, he's a very successful.
- [48:32]
Eyl
We gotta meet this lawyer.
- [48:32]
Kelis
He's great. You actually should meet him. He's really fantastic. But he's great. But he was telling me that his mother or grandmother got very ill and they were terrified, so they brought them to the States to get all the medical help that she needed. He said when he brought her back, he was so appalled because he was like, the amount of money that he spent the effort bringing this woman back and forth who was already ill, he was like, when he went to the doctors here, they were going to do the exact, exact same thing. And she ended up doing the second round of chemo and everything here. He said it was exactly the same. Their facilities are exactly the same. Since I've been here, I've had an mri. My sister actually is having surgery this week. My cameraman had a root canal, like literally. Kenya has some of the best health care. It's cheap, it's great. The doctors are fantastic. It's different, like for me to walk into every hospital office and talk to a black person who's going to talk to me and not talk to me like I'm stupid. I've had more diagrams driven, like drawn for me. Like, they're like, let me draw it for you, let me help you out. Because you're not getting like. It's been so. It's just, there's a sense of peace and it's, it's actually like, it's really good healthcare. And quite frankly, around the continent, people travel to Kenya and South Africa. That's what I keep hearing. Everyone's going to South Africa or Kenya to get health care. So Kenya has really good health care and it's like really affordable. Like my MRI cost, I think it was like 40 bucks.
- [49:56]
Alvin
So you have health insurance?
- [49:58]
Kelis
No, I pay out of pocket. It's so cheap. You can get health insurance here. You can get it here. It exists. It's so cheap though. Like, when my cameraman got his root canal, he said it was like a full root canal. They did the X rays, like the whole thing. And the office is really nice. I think what he said was like 200 bucks.
- [50:18]
Alvin
That's a different system because most Americans are Not used to just paying a doctor, Right. They're used to paying health insurance, but we know how expensive that can be.
- [50:25]
Kelis
Well, the other thing is I can text the doctor and be like, hey. And he answers and they answer. And there's just a certain sense of, like, pride. And, like, I think a lot of times I feel like in the States, everyone's so kind of jaded and. You know what I mean? Just, they don't care anymore. Here, I feel like there's such a sense of pride. Like, these are. He's like, I'm Kenyan. I'm a doctor, and I will help you. Thank you.
- [50:48]
Alvin
Who was telling us about when. I think it might have been Rwanda, where they were saying, like, the doctor come to your house.
- [50:52]
Kelis
Literally, I've had doctors come to the house, like, for sure. Like, when my little one had a fever, like, and they're just glad and happy and, like, it's just a different. It's so different. But healthcare here is actually really good. And I was like, I was skeptical just because of what I'd heard. Just nonsense about Africa, right? You're like, what are you gonna get? And it's legit.
- [51:10]
Alvin
Well, another misnomer when it comes to Africa. Like, even when we started spending a lot of time going to Ghana, stuff like that, it's starting to break now. But for a long time, people in America, right, Black Americans, they were like, well, they don't want you in Africa. They're not going to treat you well. You're not going to. You're not. You're going to be accepted as. You're going to be treated like an outsider. That's a. An ideology that has permeated throughout America, different parts of the world. How has that been for you?
- [51:40]
Kelis
I'll be honest. First of all, Kenya, to me, I feel like out of a lot of the countries is. And Ghana, I will say, actually are the most welcoming fact where, like, no, for real. Genuinely, it's true. Where they're. Well, but there's a reason, though, right? It's because they know. They're aware, so they understand the history. Like, you'll go to certain countries and they're like, we don't know what you're talking about. Slave to whom and why and where and why should I care? And I don't know what you're talking about. About. You know, I think as Americans, we assume that everyone knows our history and they don't, right? And it's not their fault. Like, they weren't taught our history. So while we walk around with this, like, chip on our shoulder. Like, this has been terrible. And you guys should know that it's been terrible. And I'm here because I know, you know, they're looking at you like, what is that, chip? What is that about? Right? So that has happened.
- [52:25]
Alvin
What's going on in America? They don't know the history with Africa.
- [52:28]
Kelis
They have no idea. And then all they see is tv. And they see us rolling, right? And they see us ball. And they're like, why are you mad? What are you mad about? The first time I came to the continent, I was about 17, and I was in Zimbabwe, and I was spending three months there. And they kept saying they were like, the angry. The angry American girl. They didn't even consider me black. And they were like, she's pissed, right? And it was like, such a weird. It was such a strange exchange. Me, I was like, this is so crazy because I'm nothing but black. In America. It wouldn't. Nobody cares what you're mixed with. Nobody cares, right? You are black. That's it. So I. I've been black my whole life, so it didn't make any difference to me till you come out here and they're like, in South Africa or in Zimbabwe, like, you're a goffel or you're mazungu or you're colored, or you're all these other things, right? Most of the time, it comes from just not knowing. And this is your opportunity to let them know. You know what I mean? Like, I don't walk around with a chip on my shoulder. I'm American. I'm very, very profoundly American, aware of our struggle. But I also understand that, like, their perspective is so different, right? They're like. A lot of times you talk to people and like, they're on their land. This is like. This is their grandma's land and their grandpa, and then their great. And they've been on this land forever. So they look at you and they're like, yo, what's your beef? Why are Americans so mad? And they have no idea. And then also they look at it like the same lie that we've been told. Like, how it's subpar here. They've been told that America is the land of dreams and that we're all living it up and that everybody's just rolling in dough and popping champagne all day. So we've got this massive disconnect about who we actually are, you know? And so you can't really. It's like, we don't know. They don't Know, somebody's gotta let everybody know. Right.
- [54:05]
Eyl
I think that that's why it's so important that you're here.
- [54:07]
Kelis
Yeah.
- [54:08]
Eyl
And that we're having this conversation because it sheds light, it changes narrative. Obviously, you've had an amazing music career, but do you feel the magnitude or the importance of what you're now doing in Kenya in terms of business and farming and infrastructure? Do you feel the weight of that? Or it's just like, you know what? I'm kind of living in my purpose.
- [54:26]
Kelis
I think both. Yeah. Like, I came out here again, not with some grandiose, like, idea. I started documenting it because every time I went anywhere, I was, like, shocked. And then I felt dumb. I was like, I've traveled so much. Like, why do I feel so ignorant? Like, this is crazy, right? I've been around the world. Why does this feel so new? And I just. I would be like, film this. I'm like, you gotta. This is beautiful. Or, this is amazing, or, this is delicious. Or, look at this lady's outfit, or whatever it was. I would be like, just. I wanted people to see it. I was in shock and in awe, and I felt like if I was, then the rest of my people didn't know, right. Like, I'm like, how did I not know this? Right? Like, how did I not see this? So I didn't come out here, like, I'm going to show everybody.
- [55:06]
Eyl
Like, I will lead you.
- [55:08]
Kelis
Yeah. It was so it could. Couldn't be further from that. It was just me trying to figure my own out. But once I got here and then. And then Kenyon specifically loved TikTok. So, like, people were coming up to me and they're like, yo, I saw what you're doing on TikTok. I love it. And that's when I started to realize people were even caring because I'm. I'm a black American, I think, in black American terms. So I'm always thinking about my folks back home, right? I'm like, I want to show my people back home what's happening, right? And, like, it wasn't until Kenyans and Rhondons and Zambians and people were like, yo, we love what you're doing. Like, I see this. This is so good. You know, that's when I was like, oh, this is like a real thing. I'm like, okay, this is like a responsibility. Like, it didn't hit until it hit, you know?
- [55:50]
Alvin
So from a travel standpoint, though, you've been all over the continent. What's your top five places that you've.
- [55:55]
Kelis
Been to and why Kenya, obviously. Okay, so Kenya is the metropolis that has everything, right? Literally anything you want to do. Families, kids, you want to go out, great cocktails, it's here, like, beauty and safety and kind of like, you know, just order. Rhonda, partying and like, just acting a fool. Uganda, it's got a great nightlife. Let's see. Zambia. Zambia and like, Zimbabwe for just, like, natural wonders. You're just like, wow, this is insane, right? You've got, like, Mosiotunya, also known as Victoria Falls, which we will not acknowledge that name, but you know, the waterfalls and, like, you've got. It's just like, so amazing. You feel like you're like one with nature at all times, right? Just absolutely stunning. Of course. Ghana, wow. Food. I was getting there. First of all, relax your body.
- [56:55]
Eyl
It almost felt.
- [56:56]
Kelis
Relax your body. So Ghana has some of the best food, I would say, on the continent.
- [57:00]
Eyl
I'm with you.
- [57:00]
Kelis
I absolutely.
- [57:02]
Eyl
In the world.
- [57:02]
Kelis
Yeah, it does. It's. It's. And it also feels. And I will say this, being that I'm like, Caribbean also, it feels the closest to home. Same like, it. Nothing there. Felt like my family at Puerto Rico and Barbados.
- [57:13]
Eyl
Jamaican.
- [57:14]
Kelis
So for us, I'm like, oh, I eat this. I was like, okay, I do this. I can make this.
- [57:18]
Eyl
I got this very similar.
- [57:19]
Kelis
It feels like home. The people also are lively and loving and warm. One of them, not so much right now, but the rest of the country is great. I mean, also too, I think being like, you know, I'm used. I have so many Nigerian and Ghanaian friends that, like, it also just felt really like home. It felt so like, nothing felt foreign or different or like, you know, what about South Africa? Okay, so South Africa. Here's the thing. I always. I never pull any punches. I always try to be honest. South Africa, Cape Town specifically, is one of the prettiest places on earth. Fact, it's very white, so that doesn't feel like Africa to me. So the reason why I move, everyone's like, why don't you move to Cape Town? It's tempting. Super tempting. It's super tempting. I think I can just put my money here. But then I'm like, okay, I'm playing my. I'm playing with. I'm so. Total hypocrisy, right? But it's, like, gorgeous, right? But it's like, they always take the best stuff, right? It's like the. It's just like, you got beach, you've got. It feels like California in the sense where it's like you could be up in the mountains in snow. You could be on the beach in crystal clear water. You could be at the wineries. Like, Cape Town's just stunning. Joburg has a lot of culture and a lot of vibe. It's just not the safest, but, like, music. When I think about, like, for me as an artist, like, every time I'm there, I'm just like, the music is, like, electric, right? So there's that. Zanzibar is. Zanzibar is beautiful. I personally now, I prefer Diani and Mombasa and, like, the whole coast of Kenya, just as far as, like, safety and cleanliness and, like, it's the same water, it's the same Indian Ocean, the same beach. But, yeah, I mean, I think every. That was the hardest part about buying land was like, every country has something so dope and special to offer. Right. Tanzania is robust and lush, and it's just like, so much greenery everywhere. Right. Everybody has something to offer. So really just got to pick a place, just put some money in it.
- [59:27]
Eyl
I mean, when you name the top five, it's interesting. We met in Kigali last week and I'm thinking to myself, what is the strategy where, when you're trying to invest, is it that I'm looking for the greenery, Is it. Am I looking for the education, healthcare? What are the things when you're looking to say, all right, here's why I want to buy land, because I know you got land in a few countries.
- [59:44]
Kelis
Yeah. I think it's like, you got to figure out what your priorities are. Right. I mean, for me, like, I. Like I said, I look at, like, government. Kenya has a democracy. They, you know, people. There's. People speak out against things. Like, those are things that I was used to. So when I was thinking about, like, culture shock and what I was going to be able to, like, what I want to raise my kids in, that was, like, a logical choice. Right? Education, all the things that we need are here. If you're looking for rural and a little bit less developed, in my opinion, Tanzania is a gold mine. It's absolutely stunning. There are a lot of the diaspora there already in the Indar es salaam. You know, there's like, you look at Zambia. Zambia is more rural, but again, people are. I know Americans that have gone to Zambia to mine. Brilliant. I'm not a miner, but it's brilliant. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, that just wasn't what I was going to do, but I get it. So when you look at things like that, like, they're coming in, they're putting money in Zambia, tons of copper and all kinds of other stuff, right? So it just depends on what you're into. The easiest countries to buy stuff in though, is definitely, well, Rondo, without a doubt, in the sense that they have a no nonsense policy, right? So you're never going to be taken. Like, it's just, it's not going to happen. Put your money in. You're going to get what you put your money in. For Kenya, I think is it takes a little bit longer, but it's like really straightforward. They're like, these are the things you have to do. And it's like, no games, right? So that makes sense. Tanzania is a little bit harder because they want someone from, like, if you don't have people there, they want someone from Tanzania to be part of the business with you. So that's a decision you'd have to make. Right? Every country has something, you know, there are certain countries that will work with you. They just want Americans to come and they understand the power that we have, our buying power, and that will bring others. Zambia is one of them, you know, like, they want to play. They want to play. So they're like, what do we do to help you? So it just depends, you know, Kenya, to me, like I said, as far as, like, being a first time, it was the easiest. Like, this all made sense to me. Like, I understood all the process. Like, I said only a few things that I thought were like, I don't know if I want to send him that money. You know what I mean? But then I did it and it was like, totally legit. And I asked around before I did it and they were like, no, that's the way we do it here. Because I was like, is he just trying to get me to send him money? You know? But then once I did, I was like, okay. I mean, it wouldn't be the first time.
- [62:11]
Alvin
So yo, send a money truck. So let me ask you this, as far as you doing a lot with real estate, right? From the agricultural standpoint, investing anything in the entrepreneurial space, like business outside of real estate.
- [62:25]
Kelis
Well, yeah, I've got. So I've built two apps since I've been here.
- [62:28]
Alvin
Talk about that.
- [62:29]
Kelis
Well, the first one is something called Tech Check. It's a security app, actually. It's just sort of one of the things I noticed about, like, all of the buildings here. They have a very, like, antiquated system where it's like, it's a Book. I just thought, like, I don't want to write all my information on this book. So it's really just a simple way to kind of streamline check in process. Yeah, because everybody has a check in process here, right? So things like that. And then the other app is in, it's in the works right now. But it's another kind of like, like a, A work app. Right. Because when I came out here I was like, well, how do I find a nanny? How do I find a housekeeper? How do I find. How do I buy a car? Because kind of all those things, right? So it's like sort of an information hub for people like me that would need help finding these things, you know, so they don't have anything like that here. So when I came and I was like, well, how do I find a nanny? They're like, oh, the UN has a, has a bulletin board. You have to go and look. And I was like, I'm not going to the. I don't even belong in the unit. I was like, I don't even let me in.
- [63:23]
Eyl
So you're dark. Yes.
- [63:24]
Kelis
Yeah. I was like, that's just not like. So like, you know, you think about like a care.com type of thing, but like for kind of the whole sort of nannies and housekeepers and gardeners and the things that you need just to like have like to get your life started, that kind of thing. But what I was looking at to, you know, I looked up like Kenyan app developers and like, this is young, all Kenyan team of guys that like really inexpensively and affordably built this very proficient app for me. And so it's, it's doable. So I'm doing things like that. I'm in the process of manufacturing my wellness and beauty products here. So that's happening.
- [64:05]
Eyl
I can't let you leave without talking about music.
- [64:07]
Kelis
Right.
- [64:07]
Eyl
We were talking before you, like, I don't have to go to America to make my music. It's here. I can do it here. I can get mixed and get message, talk about the music.
- [64:16]
Kelis
So I started recording my last record in California and then I obviously dipped, so I had to finish. And so I did the second half of my record all here in Kenya. So I recorded it here. I used a lot of. I use some South African producers. I have an East African engineer. Like, it just, it all came together, Everything's here.
- [64:36]
Alvin
When does that come up?
- [64:38]
Kelis
I am releasing my single this summer, so. But then probably top of the year.
- [64:42]
Alvin
For the whole record, so. Yeah, I'm glad you talked about the apps too, because that's nothing we didn't talk about. But Kenya is a tech hub of Africa. So that's another thing. People need to be aware of the technology sometimes. That's another misconception. People automatically assume that it's going to be a drop off in technology and we all are relying on technology, so that's a deterrent. Like I don't want to have to deal with 1G Wi Fi and I'm.
- [65:04]
Kelis
Not gonna like, no, I mean you see it, right? Like listen, I watch my Apple TV every day. I'm like, my Internet works. Like everything is good. It's completely like, it's as modern as it. Quite frankly it's probably better year than it was on my farm in California. Like you know, all like you get all of the. And even like when, you know, when I was talking about using the tech, they have a whole tech city. It's like you know, Silicon Savannah that they've been building and I don't know how long it's gonna take but like just the idea that like there are people going to school. I have a kid who works for me that helps me out with stuff and he's getting his degree in all kinds of engineering and tech and like we have everything here. So like it's a whole young community of people that are super capable and it's really modern and like I said, you can build. It took like a couple, a couple months to build my app, you know what I mean? Like, and they're, they're ready and they're down to do it and they're completely capable.
- [65:56]
Eyl
We were driving earlier today and we were trying to figure out where we were and they were like, oh, they're across the street from the Microsoft building. So when we say it's here, it's here. We were talking to the driver and he was like in terms of data centers and we talk about, you know, companies building them, meta, Google, Amazon, Apple, they're here, right? And they have the engineers working here. And so again, tech hub for sure. But like the innovation is here too because the population is so young when they get this information. I mean the trajectory is so far greater, it's amazing.
- [66:27]
Kelis
You feel it though. I think. Like, I mean you guys like this is your first time here, right? Like you feel the energy here, right? Like you can sense that like this is a place where like things are growing fast and happening fast. Like I always say, it's like this is like our, the diaspora's gold rush. Like everybody needs to come Here. Because there will be a point when it's going to be unattainable, right? Like, I look at the land that even that I bought, it's already appreciated. Like, if I were to sell with the little bit that I've done, right now, it's already a quarter more than what I. It's. It's actually less than a year that I bought it, right? It just. Everything is happening here and it's happening quickly, right? And so it's like I saw something and it's like this old white billionaire and he's like, yeah, Africa is the future. And it's like, sir, first of all, you know, it's like, I feel like it's frustrating because I feel like they always know it and then we doubt it, you know, and then by the time we figure it out, it's always too late. So it's like, this is the time now. This is a place where you can invest and you can see returns quickly and actually be of use and actually make a dent in something. Right? It's not a rat race.
- [67:26]
Alvin
Thank you for your time. Tell them for the website if they want to get more information on land, like how they can buy a piece and anything else.
- [67:34]
Kelis
For sure. Well, definitely, just follow me on Instagram, Elise. And then you. Hi. You follow me on Instagram, Alis. I'm always talking about it. I am setting up the website we farm. So I'll start talking about it on my social media so you can start to see when that's up and running. It's gonna be really soon, though, and there will only be a certain amount of places to start. Cause I'm starting small. Like I said, 130 people. But yeah, definitely, just check me out and go to BountyInfo.com and get your stuff.
- [68:06]
Alvin
There you have it, ladies and gentlemen, a wrap on the set. Live from Kenya.
- [68:11]
Eyl
Yeah. Shout out to the producers, the production team. Shout out to Alvin. Shout out to Ghana.
- [68:16]
Kelis
To Ghana. Heaven forbid. Such a hater.
- [68:22]
Alvin
Somber city.
- [68:25]
Eyl
The great connector himself.
- [68:26]
Kelis
We're in Kenya right now.
- [68:31]
Alvin
Right now.
- [68:32]
Eyl
That's a fact. We gotta.
- [68:33]
Alvin
We gotta be able to make it too.
- [68:34]
Kelis
God, you know.
- [68:37]
Alvin
Appreciate you guys. Thank you.
- [68:38]
Eyl
Peace.
- [68:39]
Kelis
Peace.
- [68:41]
American Express Representative
When you're with Amex Business Platinum, you have the card that helps businesses dream bigger. Get a flexible spending limit that adapts with your business, and earn 1.5 times Membership Rewards points on select business purchases so you can stock up on what you need to take your business further and get rewarded for growing bigger. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Not all purchases will be approved terms supply. Learn more@americanexpress.com AmEx Business hi Zoe Saldana.
- [69:11]
Kelis
Welcome to T Mobile. Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us. Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in. You don't need a trade in. When you switch to T Mobile, we'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old phone. Up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it. There's always a trade in. Not right now. @ T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma. That's okay. I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender. I'm good. Seriously. Let me check this pocket.
- [69:38]
American Express Representative
Oh, mints.
- [69:39]
Kelis
Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car. It's our best iPhone offer ever.
- [69:47]
Eyl
Switch to T Mobile.
- [69:48]
Kelis
Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with.
- [69:50]
Eyl
Apple intelligence on us.
- [69:51]
Kelis
No trade in needed. We'll even pay off your phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits. New line $100 plus a month on experience beyond Finance Agreement 999.99 and qualify imported for well qualified plus tax and $10 connection charge. Payoff via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits and imbalance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel ctmobile.
- [70:09]
Alvin
Com.