Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

Episode: A Wise American Capitalist Criticizes U.S. Capitalism, with Ben Cohen
Date: August 16, 2023
Guest: Ben Cohen, Co-founder and former CEO of Ben & Jerry’s Ice Cream
Host: Richard D. Wolff

Main Theme Overview

In this episode, economist Richard D. Wolff provides a rapid-fire analysis of pressing issues—artificial intelligence, racism in academia, U.S.-China economic relations, and the legacy of Tony Bennett—before engaging in a wide-ranging interview with Ben Cohen. The conversation with Cohen revolves around the failures and future of U.S. capitalism from the vantage point of a prominent business leader committed to social justice, delving into campaign finance reform, war, Israel/Palestine, the slide toward fascism, and socially responsible entrepreneurship.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Problems of U.S. Capitalism (Ben Cohen’s Critique)

• Structural Inequality: Cohen asserts that the U.S. economy is “structured to benefit corporations and the ultra wealthy at the expense of everybody else.”

  “Congress is supposed to regulate corporations, but instead the corporations are regulating Congress through campaign contributions, lobbyists, and what have you.” — Ben Cohen (15:55)

• Government Capture: He decries the corrupting influence of money in politics, enabling corporate overreach and undermining democracy.

2. Campaign Finance Reform

• Eliminating Big Money in Politics: Cohen would eliminate campaign contributions from corporations and the ultra-rich, replacing them with citizen vouchers to level the political playing field.

  “Every citizen in the country gets a voucher for a certain amount of money, maybe $100... It restores our democracy and makes it a government of the people again.” — Ben Cohen (16:58)

3. U.S. Foreign Policy & War in Ukraine

• On U.S./NATO Role: Cohen contends that U.S. and NATO expansion provoked the Ukraine war, drawing a parallel to the Cuban Missile Crisis.

  “Doing the equivalent of placing nuclear weapons on the Canadian and Mexican borders of the United States... There were several opportunities for a negotiated settlement that the United States kind of put the kibosh on.” — Ben Cohen (18:10)

• Negotiated Settlements Preferred: He advocates for ending U.S. military support and using American power to broker peace instead.

4. Israel/Palestine & U.S. Involvement

• Support for Israel, Not Oppression: Cohen supports Israel’s right to exist but opposes its policies toward Palestinians:

  “Making an entire group of people oppressing an entire group of people for the actions of a comparatively few terrorists... You can't have security at the point of a gun.” — Ben Cohen (19:44)

5. Capitalism & Class Struggle

• Viability with Controls: Cohen defends capitalism only “with proper controls and constraints,” praising Scandinavian social democracies for balancing markets with social welfare.

  “Unfettered capitalism... creates havoc. It ends up having all the power in the hands of the ultra wealthy and corporations and everybody else just becomes pawns.” — Ben Cohen (21:47)

• Contrast with U.S. System: He sees the U.S. as a “corporate democracy,” organized for corporate profit, rather than public good.

6. Is the U.S. Sliding Toward Fascism?

• Alignment of State and Corporate Power: Cohen agrees that the “partnership of the government and the corporations is undeniable,” marking a drift toward fascism.

  “Fascism just doesn't happen overnight. It's a gradual movement. And like the proverbial frog in the pot of water that's heating up, you don't notice it until you're dead.” — Ben Cohen (23:34)

• Authoritarian Trends: He cites the growth of authoritarian tendencies, especially among “Trumpist elements.”

7. Controversies in U.S. Racial Discourse & Education

• On DeSantis’s Slave Skills Comment: Cohen calls the idea that slaves “gained skills” an “absurd” and dangerous justification for abuse.

  “If someone were to put me in chains and whip me and require me to learn how to sew, I might learn how to sew. But is that what we're advocating? Is that what we're saying is a good thing? It’s absurd.” — Ben Cohen (25:52)

8. Ethical Entrepreneurship: Cannabis and Criminal Justice

• Ben’s Best Blends: Cohen explains his new cannabis business, which sells low-THC marijuana with the dual aim of offering a “get there slower” experience and funding reform efforts for harms caused by the war on drugs.

  “It's a much more enjoyable ride...” and “the whole purpose of this business is to help right the wrongs of the war on drugs... 100% of its profits go [to reform].” — Ben Cohen (27:13)

Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On Corporate Influence:

  “Corporations are regulating Congress through campaign contributions, lobbyists and what have you.” — Ben Cohen (15:55)

• On Democracy Reform:

  “Candidates no longer play to corporations and the ultra wealthy, and it restores our democracy and makes it a government of the people again.” — Ben Cohen (16:58)

• On Ukraine:

  “United States and NATO actually provoked that war...” — Ben Cohen (18:10)

• On Israel/Palestine:

  “You can't have security at the point of a gun... I don't think you can have security by oppressing an entire group of people.” — Ben Cohen (19:44)

• On American Capitalism:

  “Unfettered capitalism... everyone else just becomes pawns.” — Ben Cohen (21:47)

• On Slide Toward Fascism:

  “Fascism just doesn’t happen overnight. It’s a gradual movement. And like the proverbial frog in the pot of water that's heating up, you don't notice it until you’re dead.” — Ben Cohen (23:34)

• On DeSantis’s Slavery Comment:

  “If someone were to put me in chains and whip me... I might learn how to sew. But is that what we're advocating? Is that what we're saying is a good thing? It's absurd.” — Ben Cohen (25:52)

• On Social Entrepreneurship:

  “So our motto is get there slower... The whole purpose of this business is to help right the wrongs of the war on drugs.” — Ben Cohen (27:13)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Recap of Current Issues: 00:10–15:38
• Interview Begins (Ben Cohen Introduction): 15:39
• Cohen’s Critique of U.S. Economy: 15:55–16:44
• Campaign Finance Reform: 16:44–17:40
• Ukraine War: 18:10–19:28
• Israel/Palestine: 19:44–20:54
• Capitalism & Class Struggle: 21:47–22:58
• America’s Slide Toward Fascism: 23:34–24:58
• Controversy Over Slavery Curriculum: 25:52–26:26
• Ethical Cannabis Business: 27:13–28:45

Tone and Language

The conversation is frank, critical, and nuanced—with Cohen’s perspective blending directness with a progressive optimism rooted in real-world business experience. Wolff’s questioning is incisive yet affable, setting up Cohen to unpack complex intersections between capitalism, democracy, justice, and activism.

Summary Takeaway

This episode stands out for its unsparing critique of American capitalism from inside the business world. Ben Cohen articulates a path forward grounded in democracy, transparency, social responsibility, and a rejection of both unfettered markets and creeping authoritarianism. His journey—from ice cream to cannabis, from profit to purposeful giving—exemplifies the possibility for business to be a vehicle for real change, if it can transcend the system’s structural barriers. A must-listen for those interested in the intersection of economics, politics, and ethics.