Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff: "Capitalism, Jobs, Depressed People"
Date: March 12, 2020
Host: Richard D. Wolff
Guest: Tess Fraad Wolff (psychotherapist)
Episode Overview
This episode of Economic Update, hosted by Richard D. Wolff, focuses on the economic system’s impact on personal wellbeing—especially the pervasive role of work, the organization of workplaces, and how these structures create and perpetuate depression among workers. The episode begins with economic news updates, spotlighting policy experiments in Canada, corporate climate reckoning, and the entanglement of money and politics in the U.S. The second half features an extended interview with psychotherapist Tess Fraad Wolff, examining the psychological costs of today's capitalist workplaces and how these impact both individual and collective health.
Key Economic Updates and Insights
1. Progressive Tax Policies in Vancouver, Canada
[00:10–04:00]
- Vancouver’s government (NDP–Green coalition) is planning a substantial tax increase on high-income earners:
- Income over $166,000 (USD) to be taxed at 20.5% (up from 16.8%).
- The move is aimed at addressing gentrification, soaring housing prices, and improving affordability for regular people.
- A 7% tax on sugary sodas is also planned to discourage consumption and lower public health costs related to tooth decay.
Quote:
“They have deemed it appropriate to tax those at the top, the ones who benefit most from gentrification, to pay for [making Vancouver affordable].”
—Richard D. Wolff [01:52]
Insight:
Wolff highlights that such policy shifts demonstrate progressive taxation and people-first public health measures are possible and already being enacted elsewhere.
2. JPMorgan Chase’s Internal Report on Climate Change
[04:00–08:20]
- A leaked report commissioned by JPMorgan Chase acknowledges the economic threat of climate change and calls the previous investment in fossil fuels a “market failure.”
- The core argument: Environmental costs were never factored into the profit equation, and had they been, key investments would not have been justifiable.
Quote:
"This is a recognition that markets don’t count many of the most important costs of business in our capitalist system.”
—Richard D. Wolff [07:00]
Insight:
Wolff uses this to critique the blind faith in markets, arguing that the market system's inability to account for hidden costs—like environmental damage—leads to repeated, harmful miscalculations.
3. The Pervasive Role of Money in American Politics
[08:20–14:50]
- Maddening disparities in campaign spending:
- Michael Bloomberg spent $409 million in three months; Tom Steyer $254 million; Bernie Sanders $117 million; others far less.
- Money also shapes politics through lobbying, think tanks, and media—narrowing public debate to perspectives pushed by those with resources.
- The structure leaves many Americans disaffected, distrustful, and alienated from politics.
Quote:
“If you’re upset with the stale old quality of American politics, thank the way money matters in our system.”
—Richard D. Wolff [13:35]
4. Gender Discrimination Lawsuit: U.S. Women’s Soccer
[14:50–16:00]
- U.S. Women’s Soccer Federation has sued for pay parity.
- Notably, even male soccer players support the women’s demands, forming an alliance to push for fairer compensation overall.
- Wolff notes that employers use differentials—gender, race, age—to divide workers and maximize profit.
Quote:
“These pay differentials...are so many mechanisms to enable the employer to play one against the other...They have one goal—to leave more profits for the employer and less for the employees. Don’t be fooled.”
—Richard D. Wolff [15:30]
Main Interview: The Psychological Cost of Capitalist Workplaces
Guest: Tess Fraad Wolff, Psychotherapist
[16:12–28:24]
1. Work, Meaning, and Depression
- The lack of meaningful work and alienation from a company’s mission are primary contributors to depression.
- Individuals feel like “cogs in a machine,” which is both objectifying and dehumanizing.
- Workplaces increasingly organize employees using labels and hierarchies that strip personal identity and connection.
Memorable Exchange:
“Many people feel reduced to being a cog, which is objectifying and dehumanizing...It takes away the complexity and the emotional basic experience that we embody.”
—Tess Fraad Wolff [17:17]
2. Workplace Organization and Its Effects
- Modern capitalist structures are highly hierarchical; all interesting decisions are made by a handful at the top.
- The majority are excluded, leading to lack of engagement and productivity.
Quote:
“You can certainly stretch and widen someone's tolerance for mistreatment by slowly depressing them over and over again into inactivity and all sorts of other problematic states.”
—Tess Fraad Wolff [21:58]
3. The Spillover Effect: Work and Personal Life
- Depression from work causes people to disconnect from themselves and their relationships.
- Emotional unavailability (“fading out”) becomes apparent both at work and at home.
- Many people remain unaware that their dissatisfaction and depression are linked to the structure of work itself.
Quote:
“There's an ambivalence that resides in a lot of people who feel simultaneously dissatisfied...and self-blaming about that dissatisfaction.”
—Tess Fraad Wolff [24:59]
4. Cultural Pressures and Self-Blame
- The “positivity culture” encourages people to mask their unhappiness and view themselves as selfish for wanting more meaningful work.
- This can shame people out of recognizing or acknowledging their distress.
5. Paths to Healing and Resistance
- Begin by validating feelings and recognizing it’s “healthy and normative” to seek meaningful work.
- Therapy (individual or group) and honest discussion with others can help.
- Sharing experiences can help normalize discontent and foster collective action.
Quote:
“If you want to change society, you gotta first be honest about your own experience...It’s the best organizing tool ever invented.”
—Richard D. Wolff [27:14]
6. Final Thoughts: Hope and Despair
- Tess Fraad Wolff expresses sadness at the current state of American workplaces and the broader social climate—yet holds onto the importance of honest dialogue and finding “pieces of hope.”
Quote:
“People are depressed and they’re inactive. And it’s understandable that they’re inactive because they’re depressed. But it feeds on itself. And so we really have to grab at the pieces of positivity.”
—Tess Fraad Wolff [27:43]
Notable Quotes & Timestamps
- “Taxing the wealthy is coming and it is coming to a theater near you.” —Richard D. Wolff [03:18]
- “We were wrong in our capitalist system ... not to count the costs of environmental damage.” —Richard D. Wolff [06:23]
- “It produces a dead, stale conversation when money shapes what positions are heard...” —Richard D. Wolff [12:05]
- “It’s terribly lonely-making for the majority of people.” —Tess Fraad Wolff [19:34]
- “There’s a part of them that already isn’t there. Even before they walk in...they’re already kind of less available.” —Tess Fraad Wolff [23:53]
- “It’s also a very healthy, normative thing to have a sad reaction when those things are lacking.” —Tess Fraad Wolff [26:13]
- “If we feel depressed, if we feel disconnected at the workplace, I think it’s incredibly important to talk and to take risks.” —Tess Fraad Wolff [28:24]
Important Segments (Timestamps)
- 00:10 – Canadian progressive tax updates and policy trends
- 04:00 – JPMorgan Chase on climate and “market failure”
- 08:20 – The overwhelming impact of money in U.S. political life
- 14:50 – U.S. Soccer gender pay discrimination lawsuit
- 16:12 – Main interview: The workplace–depression connection
- 19:34 – The loneliness and dehumanization of modern work
- 25:44 – Coping strategies and advice for those feeling workplace-induced depression
- 27:43 – Final reflections: Sadness, hope, and moving forward
Summary
This episode turns a critical eye on how our economic and workplace systems generate both social and psychological harm, pointing toward the necessity of awareness, honest discussion, and collective action as the first step towards meaningful change. Both Richard D. Wolff and Tess Fraad Wolff stress the importance of speaking openly about dissatisfaction, recognizing systemic issues, and building community as antidotes to both political disaffection and personal depression.